Engine Building Part 4 - Installing the Oil Pump and Setting the Pickup Depth Small Block Chevy 350
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2018
- Next part of the engine building series. 350 small block Chevy, installing the oil pump and setting the pickup height.
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I actually appreciate you're going into extreme details like this.
Thanks Jay
This is my favorite video so far! I know absolutely nothing about cars and I’m tired of paying for repairs so I decided to learn. This is my second day watching and I’ve probably seen these first 4 videos at least 6 times each. I love how detailed you are with what tools you’re using for whatever reason. I’ve been on TH-cam since 06 but I made a channel today specifically to Thankyou for helping me change my life for the better, you’re one of the guys helping people be more self reliant, in today’s age that’s the best thing you can be.
That is a tremendous compliment, thank you. My goal is to teach and help people do things for themselves. There is no reason you can't do it, anything is possible if you try. Thank you my friend.
Great knowledge. I feel like this is the kind of stuff I'd have learned from my dad and uncles if I'd grown up 20-30 years earlier. Good stuff Pete.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm still learning. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Blessings
Thanks Mike
Your website is very helpful for the various aspects of the build of the sbc engine owners, properly prepared for their respective projects!! Thanks 😊
Thanks Norman
Glad you did this video !!!
The oil pump something i left alone because of the exact reason. I didn't want to break a ear off the pump or beat the pick up tube to the pump with special tools.
Thanks Melvin
Can’t beat this video Pete. Lol thanks for sharing your knowledge 😊😊 Artie
You bet
I watched several videos on installing an oil pump. I should have watched yours first. I pulled the thread right out of my bearing cap by not using a longer bolt. You have some great videos. Thank You !
Thanks Wayne
THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO PETE!! I have assembled many GM inline 6 engines, but I will be finishing my 1st. 5.7 long block in the coming weeks. I want to do it right the first time AND just once. Your video was perfect to show me the little tricks needed in proper oil pump installation.
That's awesome! Thanks my friend
thank you pete lm learn a lot.
You're a damn life saver, I was doubting this was for the same motor and then you said 76 corvette and it's the same car 😅 thank you for the video sir
Thanks Cody
Great video, thank you
You are welcome!
Good work Pete.
Thanks my friend
Excellent video. Thanks.
You are welcome!
Part 4 thanks Pete
Thanks my friend
thanks so much pete. Regards
You are welcome!
Great explanation
Thank you
Wow, thank you
Thanks my friend
This is very clear.
Thanks!
I loved that part when you said there was a special tool and then that scene when you shook your head no hahahah that made me laugh. And when you said beat it off hahah 🤣 😂. You're awesome and I love your videos.
😁
I love your channel you have amazing content although I am a ford guy haha. One thing I noticed a difference in from Chevy vs Ford is on the oil pump pickup tube on ford it just screws in on Chevy it pushes in and you gotta mess with spot welding it just a little inconvenient in my opinion. Keep up the great work Pete!
I'm a Ford guy to,but I build everything. Thanks for watching
Nice video
Thanks my friend
Pete's Garage Your Welcome. Thanks for such great information.
cool
Good info as always, Pete. Wondering if there would be a situation where you would consider reaming the clearance holes in the oil pump flange as opposed to "persuading" the pins into alignment?
If I measured the holes and they were small I would ream them out first. It's almost always the pins getting bumped.
Dude ... NEVER drift punch those pins - you end up like at 1:57 ! Take and lightly drill out those holes on the pump... you will still be in tolerance alignment for the oil shaft.
You're right.
So no windage tray? I'm building the same engine with no means of using a windage tray unless I buy a newer pan with 1 built in but don't wanna throw more money out lol everyone tells me to add a tray but I feel as if it'll be OK for a mild build daily driver what do u think? Is It a must have
I've never used one and have had no problems
@@PetesGarage Really, that's great to hear!
I've only seen factory windage trays used in boats with redline spec around 5,000 RPM, you'll be fine without one in a car unless maybe it's a 1/4 mile race car. I was a little surprised to see the baffle in that corvette oil pan.
The small Chevy oil pump pickup tool makes the installation easier. Preform makes one. I got it at Summit Racing for $20. They have a BB Tool also.
Thanks Tom
I've never had a problem fitting a pump to the bearing cap but one thing I'm going to do after watching your video is for all of my SB Chevy builds in the future is check the fit of the pump to the cap before installing the cap that way if it needs work I can clean it before installing that way no debris in oil galleys
Good idea
unless you want too break the main cap, pull the threads, DoNot torque the oil pump retaining bolt as this guy did. 50lbs is enough. Make a lock tag, so the bolt doesn't come loose. I don't recommend hitting cast iron ethier, you will crack, break it.
Bro my manual says 60ft/lbs
It would have been good if you went into some more details about different pumps (standard volume vrs high volume, high pressure vrs standard) and the pluses and minuses of them. Love your videos.
Great suggestion, I'll not that for the next time I make one
Practical & awesome, thanks Pete. 💎
I just subscribed buddy... ((⚙️”⛏, 👍🏼
Thanks for the sub!
At 7:45 or so. Can you explain what appears to be grinding or filing marks on the oils pump feed tube? We have s 70 corvette. Not sure if this applies.
The tube I bought had a label glued on there. I had to scrape it a bit to get it off.
nice video--question: my pump is cast iron--and I think pick up is aluminum---this is an odd combination to spot weld--what rod or wire did you use...and in lieu of that --would you recommend lock tite?? Also--as an fyi--just saw a melling m55 with a warning that pick up could fall out in "performance vehicles" --or for me--Chicago potholes maybe.
For an aluminum pick up I would try to peen over the end somehow. LocTite is not a glue. I don't think it falls out, but they can droop down
Pete, how about changing oil pans on inboard boat motors that are being used the other way. Was a straight inboard with flywheel towards transom. Now it's being turned around and using a "V" drive. Thx
You want the sump towards the back so it doesn't get starved under acceleration
Really great info in your videos, what sealant did i see on the temperature sending unit threads?
I think that was Teflon tape
would that broken metal by the pin cause an oil leak-inside the pan making less oil pressure?
No, it would have to be a major crack into the oil passage
A note for future engine builders: Pay attention to the part shaft that goes from the cam to the pump. Mellings and GM used plastic. ( correct me if I am in error ) Plastic capture instead of steel cost me a very expensive rebuild as the plastic failed and turned rods blue and scuffed crank. Had a really good machine shop not done the balancing part my engine would have seized or kicked rods. Just my experience. Thanks for he video.
Thanks Scott
There is a available shaft that has metal where the bushing located.
Hi Pete, on oil pumps if you have to make a mounting gasket, what material and how thick should I use ? Thanks
I use a paper gasket material about .065"
I've seen welds come loose and the pickup drop off... The vibrations of the engine will eventually break the weld... The only way to insure it stays is either pin it or use a pickup that attaches to one of the bolts (main bolt or oil pump bolt)...
Also the imprint of the pickup in the bottom of the pan is (most likely) not from it being loose but from someone jacking up the engine under the oil pan bending it up into the pickup... You can see how bent the bottom of the pan is @ 06:45...
BTW you should never use cork gaskets for the oil pan... They ALWAYS leak no matter how much sealant you use... Use the newest one piece reusable gaskets from FelPro...
Thanks for the tips Nathan
Cork is 10 times better than the rubber one piece fel pro, cork leaks because people don't know what they are doing,I never use sealant on gasket, that's what the gasket is for. Only use it in the corners.
Just asking just the intermediate shaft snap and hold in place because a saw it's fallen from the connecting point and be hold by engine hole.
Do you always have to meausre the bolt for the oil pump, or can i just reuse the old one from my other engine? I bought a reman one but still have the old engine and bolt
You can use the old one
Would a BBC pickup tube also ride about 1/4" from the bottom of the pan?
Yes
I don't have a welder to spot weld the pickup, would you recommend using loctite, RTV or JB weld instead?
Nothing that will fall off. Try to use a sharp punch and crimp it
i have the same oil pump, trying to put it on my 4.3 v8 caprice engine and i see that shaft which connects oil pump with drive gear is too short, about 10-11mm shorter than it has to be. did you get such problem anytime? oil pump and shaft are brand new and exactly for that engine, i double checked it
Yes, you can buy different length shaft. Make sure you have proper end play in the distributor end.
@@PetesGarage thanks, i have already discovered that) strange, i bought both stock oil pump and shaft on rockauto, and they didnt mention that there are different variants. that is good experience for me, something new i didnt know before
I replaced the oil pump ony 98 s10 after replacing the oil pump new one was given me problems to get in the oil pan it has a thin metal shet I just removed u think will hurt thaat i took off that metal shet from the oil pan??
That piece acts like a baffle to prevent sloshing. You might be ok
Hey Pete question for you.. Gen 1 oil filter adapter gasket or not? Thanks
I'd use one
What about packing that inside of the oil pump with vaseline to help prime it ?
I always do that
I've seen gaskets for these oil pump's , are those necessary?
I don't use them, but it can't hurt
Did you weld around the rest of the tube? What type of welder did you use?
Just 2 spot welds
Good video just got one question why don't you prime the pump when you put it on.
It would all drain out. I will prime it when I get it all together.
The oil pump shaft collar looked like it has Allen screws. Are they tightened?
Yes
Melling has videos for how to install these.
How about a Nord - lock washer for the pump bolt?
That's a good idea
Pete you know I love your clips. When I install the bolt in the oil pump it doesn’t fit. It’s sloppy. I checked Jegs and they have a special bolt just for this application. I tried other bolts and they are loose also. Threads in cap look good. Any advise? This is on a 350.
Is there a chance someone tapped the threads to something bigger? Metric?
Pete's Garage I thought that. I’m calling Jegs tommorow and checking. I’m going to check about the metric possibility. The bolt fits but very sloppy. I’ll let you know. Thanks for the quick reply
Pete, sorry so long getting back. Problem solved. First off: machine shop forgot to return the correct bolt after cleaning engine. Second: went to auto parts store for correct 7/16 size bolt. Parts guy brought wrong size bolt (1/2”) which did not fit. I double checked to make sure it was suppose to be 7/16. Third: took main bearing cap to machine shop, found “ correct 7/16” bolt. Installed. Guess what? Go ahead and guess. It fit like a glove. Man, I went through hours of prayer over this. Thanks Pete for the quick response. Your the best. On to painting now.
Awesome! It's always something simple, glad you found it
Can I use JB weld to stick filter?
No
💯
Thanks
Sir my pump drive shaft ,solid steel like yours.just falls off when I connect it.i have to sbc oil pumps just like yours .falls off both
It will fall off until you turn it over
@PetesGarage I know this is a very old video. But I was curious, if the oil pump drive shaft that connects to the distributor gets too loose, what symptoms will the engine have ? Or how would it react to it. Thanks.
Dont beat off anything on a engine, check.
Wont vibration break that small weld?
Never has
Did you use any GASKET to mount the pump to the block?
No
Is the shaft for oil pump suppose fall down with engine upside down?
It can
Precise
👍
AAhahaha... @ 2:24 someone is walking by BAREFOOT in a metal shop... =D
No problem in my shop, it's always clean
I always use a 1/4 inch shim and set on the pickup screen . Set the pan and push it down to the gasket . Remove oil pan and tig weld the pickup tube to the pump . . Gives you your 1/4 inch off the pan and no guess work .
Great idea, thanks for sharing
do you build 4.6 2v engines?
Not very often
I have built about a hundred motors, I have e given alittle bit of thought to oil pump screen depth but not too much, I always installed the screen level with the pan surface. Why? I don't know, because that's the way I was taught, then you just check it's not against the bottom of the pan and has plenty of room to gather oil. Always have spot welded the screen though. They also use to make gaskets for the oil pump mounting surface but people found out that was a bad idea, I use anaerobic sealer. But factory never used a gasket or sealer there
Thanks for the comment. Lots of engines are built because that's the way it was taught.
funny 6:21. Head shake before hand was funny to.
Gotta lighten things up a bit sometimes
I don’t understand, you said to not tap on the oil pump for fear of breaking the ear, But tap on that dowel, if that breaks possibly a new block???
The dowel is in the main bearing cap. You can bend them a little each way. Driving the pump down on the dowels would stress the pump and crack the ear.
Beat it off. Lol classic.
Well....
How did the main cap get broken!❤
It came that way
I don't have a welder. Can I use JB Weld or something similar?
No, that will not last forever, it will eventually fall off.
Loctite Green, Stud and Bearing Mount compound #620
I have the same pump driveshaft and it’s loose and won’t stay on my oil pump?! Anyone know what’s going on, it’s a melling m55 brand new pump with a matching oil pump driveshaft
I may not stay on until you turn the engine over
Put something to cover block/crank while doing that spot weld. Don't want any slag or anything getting in and fouling anything up.
Absolutely. I covered the whole thing in my leather welding gear.
How about welding it on the bench?
Have you ever done a video on a dry sump setup?
Yes, I'll make a video next time I do one
Unless you can do TIG, the weld cracks away from the cast before you lift your visor. Guaranteed yours did. Waste of mig wire. Pioneer makes a bracket that clamps pipe in position and bolts to pump.
Thanks for the tip
Have mig welded hundreds of them ,some 20 years ago never had one to fail. Some motors 15 years later we rebuilt and had to grind weld off to change pump.
Wow knocking the shit out of the main cap bearing a drill bit in the pump housand is how u fix that never hit your mains with a hammer cast cracks it don't bend like bubble gum !!
Why in the new purchase it came with a spring is that needed?
This is for a bbc 454 Thanks Pete
To change the oil pressure
How did you get it in and still twist it around to set the height?
I measure
@@PetesGarage no. I mean you had the screen installed into the pump, but you could still rotate the screen. Mine won't move once it's in. How did you do that?
You may have to force it a bit
You said add sealant between pump and cap what kind?
I use Hi Tack
@@PetesGarage thanks sir
Anaerobic is the best to use,it's for machine surface and if it get in the oil passage want hurt anything because it want harden only hardens with no air
I could see where you beat the pick up tube to death getting it on. I also know beating on that dowel pin could have cracked the rear main cap, just like the other side. You should have dressed the hole in the pump with a small file. Generally, people set the pick up parallel to the crankshaft. Not drooping down like that. Also, you over torqued the mount bolt.
Thank you for the input
If you set it parallel to the crankshaft, you end up getting cavitation from the slapping/dipping action of the crankshaft, which gets picked up by the pickup tube in mid and higher rpm range.
The other reason you put the pickup tube down low in pan, is because if you develop a leak and don't realize it right away, it would take very little oil loss to SERIOUSLY damage your engine. Whereas with a low pickup, you're at least making the best of a bad situation and you have a lot more time to realize and address the oil leak.
No one sets the pickup that high😂😂😂 fkn keyboard warrior over here
Goddamn leave the guy alone it’s his engine do what you want quit pissing on everybody’s parade bro
They should weld a stop pin on the bottom of the pick up so it cant bottom out on the pan , like a little leg.
I agree
I noticed that a small amount of the cap under the oil pump was broken off, exposing more of the pin .... is this a concern?
I do not see that, where is it in the video?
@@PetesGarage , it's at 1:21 into the video... the pin on the right side... the casting is broken away and exposing the pin.
Ah yes, when you buy a used old block, sometimes people sit them on the ground and drag them. If the snag one of those pins it will crack the casting. I drill it a little deeper and use a longer pin. I've never had a problem.
@@PetesGarage I've seen guys take off the oil pump at teardown with a dead blow hammer..... and seen that break before too. Buying a new cap and line honing/boring is an expensive fix for carelessness. Love your channel Pete...!
You're right. Using a dead blow hammer to knock off a stuck pump is a bad idea. Thanks Dave
I am a retired GM master tech and never had to weld a pick up tube on to a pump using a quality part. The bottom of the oil pan was bent upward in the video, that is why the tube screen was rubbing on pan. If you use the proper installation tool, damage to the tube will not occur. The one in this video was damaged.
Thanks Phil
Phil. Sorry your incorrect. You should always “tack” the pickup so it cannot come out. Period
It looks to me like the reason the oil pick up was touching the oil pan is because the oil pan was damaged.
It definitely got banged up
Wait....didn't this series start as a for 351?
I have a few different series of engine builds, and yes, one is a 351
Question ? why not just have hit the bottom of both pin holes in the pump base with a counter sink just a little and use a rat tail hand file in the holes to get the pins to slip in nice & tight . I HATE beating on anything in a cast iron block ( hardened punch on hardened dowel pin is a no no )
Good point, thanks Mike
@@PetesGarage 40 plus years in tool & die with a apprenticeship doesn't hurt !
Absolutely
The bottom of the pan was dented. That is why the impression of the pickup is on the bottom of the pan.
That is true
Music choice
music choice
On this one?
Sorry ! What about using the original bolts ?👍🏻
Sure you can, I did not have the original
The bolt on my new oil pump is the original one, it's only 39 years old... the Sea Foam Deep Creep is an amazing product, my 350cid has been waiting years to put into a "new" vehicle! Can you say '76 El Camino!
Dont all those modern chinese made Mellings break apart?
I've never had a problem
looks like you hit the tube with a mallet
Sometimes
You show ed all that but you didn't say what holds the drive shaft on the oil pump. Because without the engine turned over that drive shaft will just fall off. An you showed using a oil pan with the bottom all bent in....
It's in the next video
I think beating on those pins is rediculous. That is how you broke the cap, but you steered way around that. I have seen a lot of small blocks. Setting the pickup parallel to the bottom of the pan is normal.
I did not break that cap, it was broken when I got it.
Shaking my head no. Special tool needed to break that main cap!🤥
Dowel pins are pressed in, there is no clearance around the dowel you were beating on. Measuring the outside distance with calipers and then measuring the inside is a very inaccurate method. It's very unlikely the pins were out by .010"
You really do need to use the installation tool. I drift punch is not a reliable means to install the pickup.
You're right
@@PetesGarage Thank you sir. I do want to comment that I find you videos informative and they have certainly helped me with the 305 that I am building. I look forward to watching more of them.
Thanks my friend, I appreciate your comment and I'm not afraid to admit when somebody recommends a better method.
No lockwasher on oil pump bolt why 😎
Stay tuned....more in an upcoming video
Pete's Garage Had other questions ;what old bolts ,thread locker ?😎🏁🇺🇸🇺🇸👍🏻
It's coming
Rather than risk knocking the pin off by tapping it, why not drill out the corresponding hole by just a small amount?
That is an option
I have to be honest with everyone here. This guy gives me anxiety just watching the way he beats on and tosses around machined parts. I have watched enough of his videos to realize his intentions are correct, it is his methods I cringe at.
Bad advice on welding the pickup guys, BRAZE ONLY. I about dirtied my pants when I saw him beat on that dowel. Like I said it is his methods I question. If I am wrong please enlighten me.
All good points, thanks Roy
I found it odd that he used grade 8 bolts on the cam bolts at 20 lb.-ft. of torque (previous video) and a grade 5 bolt for the oil pump at 65 lb.-ft. of torque. Oh, and be careful not to dent the pick-up tube when installing (6:01). Check the flat spot he put in the bend of the tube starting at 7:25. I have to agree with you @Roy Shideler. Intensions are good, but execution is questionable. Do as I say, not as I do? I've built a lot of SBC engines in my day. If the tube doesn't fit (and they rarely do), I'd grind the OD of the tube where it press-fits into the pump. Then braze.
@Sukkit Trebek The cam bolts actually come as a set for the cam as grade 8 for the same price. Oil pump bolts are standard replacement. You are right about the flat spot.
@Pete's Garage, if the grade 8 cam bolts came in the kit for the same price, I'd have done the same. I have to give you props for explaining the situation and for owning-up to the pick-up tube. Always be careful in the narrative. Some of us that have built engines can be the worst critics. All-in-all, you do a better job of explaining than most. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of ponies did that 350 turn? Flat-top pistons and a cam just under .500" lift, if you had something like 65cc heads, I'd bet you probably came close to 400 HP give or take.
@@psbnighthawk6676 I never claim to be perfect or the best. We are all here to learn, I learn something every day and I make mistakes just like everyone else. This one put out 331 HP at 5100 and 357 Ft Lb's at 4000. The customer wanted just a slight upgrade form stock, that is almost double what it came from the factory with. Here is the dyno video th-cam.com/video/cPmun7bGKhE/w-d-xo.html
Avoid melling pumps
I've never had a problem
Buiild my engine please...
Skylarkberto he would.
Lets talk! Carlosbuick72@yahoo.com
Send me an email or text and we can talk about it
There is plenty of surface area to just run a slightly large drill bit through the pump holes. I would rather that than to be smacking on the main cap.
Good point
You lose torque with an extension
Only if the applied torque exceeds the tensile strength of the extension material