I have not played in quite a long time but it’s nice to see the Vanguard living up to one of its original ideas that it was suppose to be a boom and zoom fighter. I think you just motivated me to fire the PC up and jump in to get some PVP.
I will say though, Avenger is only right because of his skill level..the average and below average player gets glassed by an average two-man Scorpius team. Everyone was fighting with and against them during the free flight, and I essentially instigated a fight with almost about more than half of the server with a buddy and me in a Scorpius. We took down 23 unique players within the span of an hour, along with killing some of those 23 multiple times as they came back for more. My buddy and I aren't god-level like Avenger is, but it was super easy to get the kills we got. We did struggle against Constellations near the end because we ran out of chaff, and ultimately that's how we died was just from a missile barrage (we were out of quantum fuel so couldn't get away, it was meant to be a suicide mission anyway). But, we faced Arrows, Gladiuses, other Scorpiuses, multiple Vanguard types, Buccaneers, multiple Avenger types, a 600i, two Hercules, and a Hammerhead as well as some other scattered ships I don't remember. At minimum we had 5 player ships on us at any given time during that hour, so it wasn't just an isolated 2 v 1 situation. Like I said ..we aren't the most amazing pilots but we were able to do this, so, I think the Scorpius is actually really good to compensate for the average person's skill to sort of increase their capability...at that point it's basically like flying 2.5 Gladiuses, so you already have more damage output plus the armor is stronger and takes more damage, and you have more missiles I believe too (I was the cockpit gunner so I don't remember how many missiles it has).
@@tevarinvagabond1192 The scorpius as it is right now, punishes mistakes hard. Most people don't even know its weaknesses and how to fight against it, so even somewhat good pilots are getting destroyed because they try to take the fight as any other one., and make many "mistakes". Thing is I don't believe more than 10% of the player base will ever question why they get destroyed and try to learn, and then maybe half of that 10% will train and be able to act on the weaknesses. I believe a good duo in a scorpius can still be very relevant even against good to very good players, it won't cut it against people that both know what to do, and can actually do it. Anyway I hope CIG hear about the pvp feedback of the scorpius and don't nerf it as they wanted to.
@@tevarinvagabond1192 IIRC The original sale for the Vanguard actually said it was a fighter killer "in the right hands" (or words to that effect). As such, I'd say that the Vanguard is living up to the original concept surprisingly well.
In this current gaming paradigm of power creep, it makes me happy to see something old not be totally outclassed by the new thing. Even when you're fighting at a disadvantage of essentially 1v2.
Vanguard is still extraordinarily strong if he brought out the emp the fight is completely Vanguard favored if Scorpius came out in 3.16 would of been even more one sided. In heavy match ups the vanguard is incredible.
@@TheMrWadikus Warden is a little more sluggish on turns than the Sentinel. I actually have no idea why it is this way but I'm guessing they had intended to simulate heavier armor through manipulating the values on the thrusters. IMO there shouldn't be a difference between the warden and the sentinel.
I am amazed by your dedication, and the amount of prectice you went through. As a sim player we used to practice day and night on IL2 to perfect energy trade, and that is only on 3 axis with one direction force/trust. SC basically multiplied the amount of axis and trust by two times, which created much more possibility and also the difficuties. It is a pleasure to watch your game play. Keep up the good works.
Good demonstration. Guard vs Cane seems like a simple rock/paper/scissors scenario where each excels in various circumstances w/gunner, wo/gunner, atmo, space, high energy, low energy, they're basically exact opposites so create a bad match up which is significantly biased towards one ship or the other through virtue of playing to each ship's strengths.
The Vanguard is my favorite ship from this game ever since they showed the concepts, and to see it is doing great as a heavy fighter is awesome, specially in capable hands, i'm waiting until persistency starts to be more wide to jump in this game, but it's very cool to see these videos man, looks like SC ship to ship combat is in a good place.
Very fun watching from your perspective piloting the Vanguard on some of these longer engagements.. One of my chief gripes is that so many of your fights are just.. Over in a flash! It's harder to learn from them.. But this was excellent! Thank you!
i took a break from pvp, thank god your still making videos. i sucked so bad coming back to it i needed some refreshers. it is so easy to forget all the things i learned about dogfighting from just panicking mid fight
Saw you in game on Friday and checked out your stream. I’ve been afraid of aerial combat in this game especially since I only have M&K but seeing you fight madd me excited and now seeing this video I feel confident. I’m currently using my little aurora in combat so I can hardly say I’m ready for PvP but I think I’ll be investing in a good little fighter soon enough and then I can consider real fights
Your passion is contagious. I’m an old man. PC gaming since the birth of the PC. Old time dog fighter feeling too long in the teeth to keep up with the young kids. This gives me hope. :)
might be the fastest I've ever subscribed after watching a single video from a youtuber I never heard of. This is great gameplay and educational content!
Love watching your vids, lots to unpack and learn - I'm not a good PVPer but these vids give me the inspiration to try. Also very cool to see that the Scorpius isn't full god mode, it does bleed!
These vids have greatly improved my PVP. Each PVP fight I find a new reason to apply a different Avenger One technique to really enhance my game. Love being part of the Avenger Combat School! Look me up the verse, I'm 'Agent_Unknown' and always down for a PVP match
Some of the best content on star citizen out there! I was staring at erkul for a while thinking how OP the scorpius seemed in every way but after watching your videos im glad I have a vanguard instead!
Scorpius was designed to sell to the Star Wars fanboys. It does have a stupid amount of firepower with a co-pilot. And it probably chews through NPCs very nicely. I think they did learn from the Ion nerf debacle and pre-nerfed the ship before releasing it. 😆 I still fully expect the wings to have less HP in the future as they do their typical 'rebalance' AFTER the sales period is over. 😉
They actually released this, from their perspective, overpowered. They planned on nerfing its maneuverability. But, because so many people complained that it is already garbage, they left it as is. The Scorpius definitely needs a buff to be competitive in any way.
I mean it's literally made for War :D Im not too deep into the lore but i noticed Aegis ships have all served in the military, while drake and misc are more akin to farming equipment / workhorses, so it makes sense one performs better than the others
Yes, was not saying a MISC or DRAKE should compete in terms of effectiveness, just another heavy with an interior. Vanguard is the only one of the 4 options. Makes sense for short range heavies like hurrc and scorp, but the Ares are just as long range as the vanguards yet in that massive ship, they could not even fit a coffin like the aurora has.
At one point the Cutlass WAS a fighter, before it got smacked with the rework bloat and 'freighter' designation. For Misc, considering the Tana is such a departure from the other light fighters, I would love to see how their design approach would be to a heavy.
I'm hoping they do the same, only with Crusader as the manufacturer. That kind of pretty and decent combat performance together might leave me selling everything else.
But Crusader has a heavy, the Ares. I was spreading the options to other MFGs to get a heavy. The biggest gripe I have with the Ares is that it somehow could not even fit an Aurora sized coffin bed behind the pilot. Has a massive fuel tank and has 3x the range of the fuel truck Starfarer. It has 80% more range than a 600i luxury touring ship and more than double the range of an 890j bigger luxury touring ship, both of which have beds and bathrooms. If a ship that can only travel 450Mkm needs a bed and kitchen and even a medical bed, how can a ship with specs to far surpass those ranges not have even a cot to sleep on? The logic that CIG uses to balance ships is almost beyond comprehension. The Crusader line of ships just have ridiculous range. MSR has a max range of like 1800Mkm. Double the range of the already ludicrous Ares. Then you have the Hercs and their nearly 2500Mkm range. I mean those are big ships with big drives and big fuel tanks. But then again the Hull A has a max range of 2000Mkm as well, and has s1 stuff. I mean they have to use the dartboard and a blindfold method of choosing stats, right? I know it is in alpha, but when building a new ship, why not put its specs in line with what is already in game? So in the years ahead they simply just tell the coders to double all the quantum drive distances for all ships. You already balanced the ships against each other in the current state of the game, so adjusting down the line is simple. But now they are going to need to increase the distance of some ships, reduce them in others, and make things more complicated than they should be. TLDR; Crusader has 2 heavies, the Ares. Use another MFG for a heavy. MISC has large combat ships > SF Gemini, DRAKE has large combat ships > Kraken. Both have the knowhow to build a heavy fighter. Every other combat ship MFG has a heavy. Anvil > Hurricane Aegis > Vanguard - with interior, so best in game right now Crusader > Ares RSI > Scorpius MISC > Zip DRAKE > Zilch
Really interesting commentary and video. I assumed the acceleration numbers of the Scorpius would be underwhelming and it's good to see that you are able to capitalize on this in practice. Do you think the Scorpius would have done a lot better in these fights if the pilot had sacrificed their own DPS to get you into a rate fight with its turret? I assume your tactic would be to disengage as soon as the Scorpius gets within 200-300m. I'd be interested to hear how you think a Cutlass Blue (with gunner) would go vs the Scorpius as it has the highest acceleration rates of all the heavy fighters (that have a turret). It is obviously a lot more fragile than the Vanguard and has slightly less pilot DPS.
I love my Sentinel...Was torn between the Scorpius and Sentinel during the Invictus week sale, but went with the Sentinel, and after watching this vid Im sure I made the right decision
sorry ia sure you must have answered this but i haven't found it. are putting attr4 on gimbal or without? can you have combination of gimbal and non-gimbaled weapons in same weapons group? does gimbal mount have other disadvantages beside -1 weapon size? thanks in advance
as a proud original concept backer of the vanguard when it was first introduced, im glad to see after all these years its still one of the best fighters you can use. even for pvp. i hope i remains a solid standard in the game. as it should for something named, the Vanguard
Does the sentinel still have a performance difference in movement than the other vanguards? I have a hoplite and was wondering if this content applies to it as well.
Ever try the 4 distortion nose repeaters? And Either a Balistic repeater or laser repeater? Alas I Have a Harb, So I have to keep a build that takes on HH reasonably. But curious if you think it is viable in a dog fight too?
So you use gimbaled 4 repeater as main gun in PVP for Vanguard? And the Attrition since it increases DPS the longer it fires? Also what are the best shields for Vanguard?
When I first hopped into my Scorpius I have noticed not just the raw forward accel to be lackluster, but also the translational-rate is rather weak, lot's of drift happening while trying to pull high G-Turns, I don't think I managed to break 10 G's in a turn within SCM.
Its amazing how little the scorpius is able to deflect as well. If the scorpius cannot set the pace of the fight due to lack of speed, and it cannot do any meaningful deflections then like you say it is truly just a trade fighter. Quite a shame really.
Great lesson..thanks. Would it make much of a difference fighting with the scorpious wings folded back, reducing its cross section and having more of its firepower down the centre of the ship as opposed to it being out wide where shots easily miss?
The Scorpius has such a huge cross section, it's actually hard to miss! Get into the right angle, straff and fire while the Scorpius will just catch all your shots on its huge wings. Have been shooting down many Scorpiuses during Invictus, lol. But as with anything, it's the pilot that makes the biggest difference and I'm not a great pilot, so I assume I was just facing lost of people who were not full time players.
So in this case, how a Gladiator would fare against a Scorpius? Seeing acceleration is a big part of why the Vanguard was able to come out on top for this fight and the Gladiator last I recall was actually decent for PVP because of its acceleration profile plus its large health pool.
Gladius arrow Sabre and so forth all do very well against the scorpius. The scorpius isn't all too special as people think and in comparing go the hurricane I'll take my hurricane instead. The scorpius sadly just isn't that great. It needs buffs not nerfs.
In the vid you mentioned the Vanguard having 13g's for forward thrust. Was there a nerf since this vid? Erkul only shows 7.7g's. I'm confused at the discrepency.
What is the load out that you’re using on the vanguard? I’m experimenting with a few different builds to figure out what will be really good for combat
This was very intriguing to watch. I’m always interested in getting better at PvP but most of the time I don’t play long enough to buy other ships. The only things I do have to compete with is an extremely nerfed Cutlass and the Buccaneer. I look forward to learning more from you! o7 EDIT: If anyone could recommend some other ships to me that would be nice. I think the Buccaneer is still good.
Now I know that the Scorpius, Hurricane and one other (Gladiator?)...sit within a certain dynamic that CIG has built. Which Dynamic do the Vanguards sit in? I would interested in that comparison.
Question: ATTRITION-4 or CF-447 RHINO? Or does it not matter atm? I see you were using the Attrition-4 in a fixed setup (likely due to S5 guns having lower ammo speed and higher capacitor drain?) but was that for a specific reason or is it just personal preference to go with the Attrition or Rhino? They look like they are completely identical on Erkul so I was really wondering if there's any difference at all atm. 🙂
@@Avenger__One Thanks for the response, I appreciate it! Yeah that's what I figured as the numbers were completely identical. As I recall the Attrition used to have a special ability where it dealt more damage the more it overheated; but now that we no longer have that overheating mechanic and instead have capacitors. So I'm wondering how CIG are going to make the Attrition-series and the CF-series different. I guess they could give them different RoF and damage-per-shot or something. But yeah, I was mainly wondering if your choice for the Attrition was based on any hidden ability or just for looks. 😃
What do you do about missiles right now? when im running pirate im totally unable to use my sentinel due to the 40k em (twice what a carrack has) . Everyone seems to just drop missiles for days.
When I used an Vanguard I found it harder to turn , as for the scorpius I thought it would have been quick enough to fly out of your guns over the top ?. but very interesting to watch how you fly and still stay in the fight when your shields are down
I saw your still gunning with the gimbled Attrition - 4 yet, never use/need to un-fixed fire with it. Is it worth going up to a fixed size 5 (less shots/ more power draw, More damage per shot? )
@@Avenger__One yeah that's the sad part. Even the S5 repeater is 700 velocity. My Vanguard is set up for PVE. I have cannons on everything, so I do mount a Size 5.
I'm currently flying a Warden and experiencing issues where my shields don't absorb any lazer repeater fire. I take hull damage with full shield HP. @Avenger_One have you noticed anything like this in a Vanguard?
Great one Sidenote: did you ever try gameglass in general? Actually thinking about getting some devices for mfds but my initial impression is its better to have hotkeys on my verpils than having to leave my Hand of the stick to use the mfd
I have a pair of streamdecks I use for the same purpose, set up to give me minimum time with my hands off-stick to hit hit controls. Even so, I keep all the things I'll want *right now* on the sticks. tried GG first, but didn't like the lack of tactile feedback from something that can't give an accurate status readout (that's waiting for CIG to release an API, not GG's fault at all).
I really like the vanguard. Its hands down my favorite daily driver in The verse. And it's nice to see it being relevant even in pvp. But to be honest. I saw you take on arrows in a bucc. So If I see a crewed scorpius I'll try to take it on , but probably end up running 😁
Nice video. Would you be willing to do a video on how to use the Inferno? I have one and it has been a struggle to say the least. I was wondering if you have some tactics to make it viable.
Im quite confused by this as i thought the vanguard had fixed nose weapons and from the video it looks like its gimbaled. When i fly with the vanguard im always aiming ahead of the target unlike what is shown in here. Just got back to the game since 2014 so idk how things work anymore.
It would be even easier fight if he uses missiles or had harbringer and uses torpedos every time he get some distance to recharge shields. And with new AD5B gatling as main weapon it would be even easier fight coss he would constantly damage hull through shields and did not need to wait for recharge.
I love how you say the scorp is "garbage" in such high skilled fights but in reality if you switched ships it really would turns the fight around imo. :D
@@N0xtron We ran multiple tests when this ship came out, including arrows. It's a lot of fun to kill scorps in arrows. I can see the m50 being fun too :)
1 of the things that drew me to the vanguard over all other main combat ships, after owning sabre, super hornet, etc. Was that the weapons are centerline. When your on target you have everythings hiting, even if you can / are firing less. The scorpius, Seems to shoot alot cause not everything is gonna hit, even with a convergence point.
@@RentableSocks yeah, im certain there will be a poiint where its on par. But my point was, for the vanguard i like the center based guns, like some of the planes from WW2 games, comparitivly to the like wing mounted guns like the P51 "my fav ww2 fighter", which has more area covered, but not as focused firing patterns.
@@maddogpcgs oh no doubt the vanguard is great and has tons of firepower, but it is stuck with fixed basically, a problem that the scorpius doesn't have. I'm flying the scorp (fixed size 3 cannons, thinking about moving to gimbal s2) right now, and admittedly it is more difficult to clear bounties safely compared to the sentinel with its big boi nose cannon as well. that thing just shreds.
@@RentableSocks Yeah im thinkin i might have to upgrade my Warden to Sent or Harb. And i do want a scorp, but will probalby be something i earn in game.. I like the lazer cannons, with a deadbolt, but i keep hearing the sent or harb can pack a bigger punch
@@maddogpcgs IF you mostly solo - Vanguard is a better choice over the Scorp - for what $30? Better yet - an Andromeda. Now you've got a ground vehicle, snub and decent solo gunboat. (Not PVP focused)
Avenger, I wondered what your opinion is on CIG looking to bring combat flight speeds down further per calling all Devs on Friday? Sorry if you've been asked this loads already and I know CIG purposefully didn't talk about the implementation so it might be difficult for you to comment? Thanks for the video!
I think it's good, the whole "joust and circle" thing is getting tiring, with a combat flight speed decrease we should see more variety in how people approach fighting in general.
Thanks A1. I'm a long term backer but not got much PVP experience RN. As a gut reaction I liked the idea of tighter combat, but was interested in the opinion of a seasoned pilot who clearly knows combat in this game.
@@tevarinvagabond1192 to my mind, it will take a pretty big overhaul of how the flight model works to get rid on the circling. it seems to me that, if left how it is now just slower and closer, you will still end up with merge, strafe to keep nose on. Dont get me wrong, it is a good idea to bring make combat slower and closer, I just dont see it making that much difference other than fights being shorter with the current flight model. Here's hoping :)
Honestly tho a lesser pilot would of lost and a slightly better poilet would know what you know about the vanguards advantage. Now knowing this to counter the van could he of boosted into you before you boost away in hopes to catch you before you put distance on the fight? Or can you just keep the distance with ease?
How can you beat the range control with 30% less Acceleration. 10gs on Scorpius, 14gs with Vanguard....it's math, even with proper circle cutting, your always going to be outa range if the Vanguard knows how to Counter move
Geez I didn't know it was 30% ya even if you boost into them early to catch them before they try pulling away its hopeless. I guess pull them into atmospheric combat is your best chance.
The sentinel is my fav ship, it was the ion until they nerfed it! Combined with the EMP it is a dangerous ship! I use cannons, must say in PvP its faired really well even against smaller fighters (not sure how good the pilots were! LOL) I had no intention of using the Scorp, i didn't think it was going to be able to take the Sentinel all being equal! Looking at that vid, had you used your EMP it clearly would have been over sooner!
Working on PVP is hard....not ready to go all evil .... but may have 2 as bounties just log.... I would prefer to get more practice due to time in jail ... Nice to see a good fight...
Excellent fight, though it reinforces my belief that the Scorpius is best as a heavy interceptor. It will excel at taking out bombers, dropships, cuttys, and ships like the Herc where the tops speed is so very low. I am actually quite curious how the Scorpius would fare against a Redeemer as well. You should do a video on that, for science of course!
Problem is Vanguard can still kill whatever the Scorpius can, Scorpius needs options and she's got none cept overwhelming figherpower that you can't apply to a good pilot
The scorpius would get shredded by a redeemer or a hammerhead, its size and not so good maneuverability makes it food for large turrets. It might have a shot at evading the size 5 slow weapons, but the scorpius is best at trading damage, which it can't do against aniything that has better shields and better guns than itself.
@@Avenger__One I will defer to your opinion there when it comes to straight dog fights. 1 v 1 there is nothing the Scorpius can do the Vanguards cannot. However, I was not referring to 1 v 1s so much as I am referring to larger scale battles which are likely to happen in the future where larger battles are supposed to happen. Whether or not they will is up for debate but CIG does seem to be making progress in that direction as the decrease in desync seems to be effective. And while I may be a bit hopeful, the Scorpius is not yet in its final form, nor are any of the fighters as mechanics may still change. But I am no ace, nor am I even an excellent pilot, things may not change and I am not married to the Scorpius. I see the potential and I see a possibly very good role for it, it just needs a small tweak. Also, apologies for the novels worth of text, wanted to get across what I was thinking when I said that.
alt + k folds the wings in without lowering the landing gear on the scorpius. they added this new keybind and i'm not sure if any other ships have a use for it.
@@veruskrutch4141 Yeah, but in this week's ISC, they said they wanted that mode to give it massive acceleration or speed and didn't have time before its release.
This makes me wonder what they have yet to add to ship management/combat that can change engagements. I know that boosting into the red is supposed to damage the ship, but that's not in yet. I dunno if armor values have been officially added yet... Heat management/overclocking seems non-existent, and stealth/missiles are kinda in rework...
And when I say armor I mean the full modular damage system where we won't have HP bars for our ship but you will have to slowly chip away at the hull to damage components
I never understand, your speed is like 300-500 the whole time. How are you guys maintaining distance between each other while still facing each other constantly? Are one of you moving BACKWARDS? Any time I approach an enemy at 300 they end up blowing straight past me and now its a joust :(
![[EP01] EP1 UNDERSTANDING ESP!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l51AGYH4Pu8/mqdefault.jpg)
I have not played in quite a long time but it’s nice to see the Vanguard living up to one of its original ideas that it was suppose to be a boom and zoom fighter. I think you just motivated me to fire the PC up and jump in to get some PVP.
I will say though, Avenger is only right because of his skill level..the average and below average player gets glassed by an average two-man Scorpius team. Everyone was fighting with and against them during the free flight, and I essentially instigated a fight with almost about more than half of the server with a buddy and me in a Scorpius. We took down 23 unique players within the span of an hour, along with killing some of those 23 multiple times as they came back for more. My buddy and I aren't god-level like Avenger is, but it was super easy to get the kills we got. We did struggle against Constellations near the end because we ran out of chaff, and ultimately that's how we died was just from a missile barrage (we were out of quantum fuel so couldn't get away, it was meant to be a suicide mission anyway). But, we faced Arrows, Gladiuses, other Scorpiuses, multiple Vanguard types, Buccaneers, multiple Avenger types, a 600i, two Hercules, and a Hammerhead as well as some other scattered ships I don't remember. At minimum we had 5 player ships on us at any given time during that hour, so it wasn't just an isolated 2 v 1 situation. Like I said ..we aren't the most amazing pilots but we were able to do this, so, I think the Scorpius is actually really good to compensate for the average person's skill to sort of increase their capability...at that point it's basically like flying 2.5 Gladiuses, so you already have more damage output plus the armor is stronger and takes more damage, and you have more missiles I believe too (I was the cockpit gunner so I don't remember how many missiles it has).
That's the kind of experience that makes Star Citizen unique: a lot of the time the game feels like a playground for testing out "virtual toys".
@@tevarinvagabond1192 The scorpius as it is right now, punishes mistakes hard. Most people don't even know its weaknesses and how to fight against it, so even somewhat good pilots are getting destroyed because they try to take the fight as any other one., and make many "mistakes". Thing is I don't believe more than 10% of the player base will ever question why they get destroyed and try to learn, and then maybe half of that 10% will train and be able to act on the weaknesses. I believe a good duo in a scorpius can still be very relevant even against good to very good players, it won't cut it against people that both know what to do, and can actually do it. Anyway I hope CIG hear about the pvp feedback of the scorpius and don't nerf it as they wanted to.
See you in the Avenger Squadron discord John! We have fun fights there everyday!
@@tevarinvagabond1192 IIRC The original sale for the Vanguard actually said it was a fighter killer "in the right hands" (or words to that effect). As such, I'd say that the Vanguard is living up to the original concept surprisingly well.
In this current gaming paradigm of power creep, it makes me happy to see something old not be totally outclassed by the new thing. Even when you're fighting at a disadvantage of essentially 1v2.
Vanguard is still extraordinarily strong if he brought out the emp the fight is completely Vanguard favored if Scorpius came out in 3.16 would of been even more one sided. In heavy match ups the vanguard is incredible.
@@watermelon58 even vs a light fighters the guard is a CHAD
@@Avenger__One Is is only the sentinel that can achieve this? I have the harbinger but I find it's manoeuvrability to be poor.
@@JudgeZetsumei I think the Sentinel and Warden are pretty close?
@@TheMrWadikus Warden is a little more sluggish on turns than the Sentinel. I actually have no idea why it is this way but I'm guessing they had intended to simulate heavier armor through manipulating the values on the thrusters. IMO there shouldn't be a difference between the warden and the sentinel.
I am amazed by your dedication, and the amount of prectice you went through. As a sim player we used to practice day and night on IL2 to perfect energy trade, and that is only on 3 axis with one direction force/trust. SC basically multiplied the amount of axis and trust by two times, which created much more possibility and also the difficuties. It is a pleasure to watch your game play. Keep up the good works.
Good demonstration. Guard vs Cane seems like a simple rock/paper/scissors scenario where each excels in various circumstances w/gunner, wo/gunner, atmo, space, high energy, low energy, they're basically exact opposites so create a bad match up which is significantly biased towards one ship or the other through virtue of playing to each ship's strengths.
The Vanguard is my favorite ship from this game ever since they showed the concepts, and to see it is doing great as a heavy fighter is awesome, specially in capable hands, i'm waiting until persistency starts to be more wide to jump in this game, but it's very cool to see these videos man, looks like SC ship to ship combat is in a good place.
this is quite the demo and lesson! havent been able top play but your vids are amazing at keeping me in touch with the combat aspect of SC
Very fun watching from your perspective piloting the Vanguard on some of these longer engagements.. One of my chief gripes is that so many of your fights are just.. Over in a flash! It's harder to learn from them.. But this was excellent! Thank you!
i took a break from pvp, thank god your still making videos. i sucked so bad coming back to it i needed some refreshers.
it is so easy to forget all the things i learned about dogfighting from just panicking mid fight
Saw you in game on Friday and checked out your stream. I’ve been afraid of aerial combat in this game especially since I only have M&K but seeing you fight madd me excited and now seeing this video I feel confident. I’m currently using my little aurora in combat so I can hardly say I’m ready for PvP but I think I’ll be investing in a good little fighter soon enough and then I can consider real fights
Thanks for testing these ships in combat and sharing this video, much appreciated and fun to watch!
Your passion is contagious. I’m an old man. PC gaming since the birth of the PC. Old time dog fighter feeling too long in the teeth to keep up with the young kids. This gives me hope. :)
might be the fastest I've ever subscribed after watching a single video from a youtuber I never heard of. This is great gameplay and educational content!
Thanks brother 🙏
Love watching your vids, lots to unpack and learn - I'm not a good PVPer but these vids give me the inspiration to try. Also very cool to see that the Scorpius isn't full god mode, it does bleed!
These vids have greatly improved my PVP. Each PVP fight I find a new reason to apply a different Avenger One technique to really enhance my game. Love being part of the Avenger Combat School! Look me up the verse, I'm 'Agent_Unknown' and always down for a PVP match
“He’s going to disengage or die. …and he chose death.”
I would love to see you do a combat series for larger ships - for example, how you would handle piloting the Constellation series.
I am completely terrible at PVP. However, this bolsters My attempts to Improve on it. Great Stuff. ✌️😎🚬
Some of the best content on star citizen out there! I was staring at erkul for a while thinking how OP the scorpius seemed in every way but after watching your videos im glad I have a vanguard instead!
Scorpius was designed to sell to the Star Wars fanboys. It does have a stupid amount of firepower with a co-pilot. And it probably chews through NPCs very nicely. I think they did learn from the Ion nerf debacle and pre-nerfed the ship before releasing it. 😆 I still fully expect the wings to have less HP in the future as they do their typical 'rebalance' AFTER the sales period is over. 😉
I agree with you - that's the only reason I want one :P I love the X-Wing the most out of the SW universe :)
Nobody can predict how damage will work in the future... Once physical damage becomes a thing, the way that we fight is going to change drastically
They actually released this, from their perspective, overpowered. They planned on nerfing its maneuverability. But, because so many people complained that it is already garbage, they left it as is. The Scorpius definitely needs a buff to be competitive in any way.
@@sokkits4231 I wish more people had complained the Ion was 'garbage'. Maybe they wouldn't have nerfed it into the ground then. 😆
@@Dracounguis no but ion was straight up OP, but they over nerfed the shit out of it
I hope they bring a MISC or DRAKE heavy with interior to compete with the vanguards. They are definitely best solo heavys in game.
I mean it's literally made for War :D
Im not too deep into the lore but i noticed Aegis ships have all served in the military, while drake and misc are more akin to farming equipment / workhorses, so it makes sense one performs better than the others
Yes, was not saying a MISC or DRAKE should compete in terms of effectiveness, just another heavy with an interior. Vanguard is the only one of the 4 options. Makes sense for short range heavies like hurrc and scorp, but the Ares are just as long range as the vanguards yet in that massive ship, they could not even fit a coffin like the aurora has.
At one point the Cutlass WAS a fighter, before it got smacked with the rework bloat and 'freighter' designation.
For Misc, considering the Tana is such a departure from the other light fighters, I would love to see how their design approach would be to a heavy.
I'm hoping they do the same, only with Crusader as the manufacturer. That kind of pretty and decent combat performance together might leave me selling everything else.
But Crusader has a heavy, the Ares. I was spreading the options to other MFGs to get a heavy. The biggest gripe I have with the Ares is that it somehow could not even fit an Aurora sized coffin bed behind the pilot. Has a massive fuel tank and has 3x the range of the fuel truck Starfarer. It has 80% more range than a 600i luxury touring ship and more than double the range of an 890j bigger luxury touring ship, both of which have beds and bathrooms. If a ship that can only travel 450Mkm needs a bed and kitchen and even a medical bed, how can a ship with specs to far surpass those ranges not have even a cot to sleep on? The logic that CIG uses to balance ships is almost beyond comprehension. The Crusader line of ships just have ridiculous range. MSR has a max range of like 1800Mkm. Double the range of the already ludicrous Ares. Then you have the Hercs and their nearly 2500Mkm range. I mean those are big ships with big drives and big fuel tanks. But then again the Hull A has a max range of 2000Mkm as well, and has s1 stuff. I mean they have to use the dartboard and a blindfold method of choosing stats, right?
I know it is in alpha, but when building a new ship, why not put its specs in line with what is already in game? So in the years ahead they simply just tell the coders to double all the quantum drive distances for all ships. You already balanced the ships against each other in the current state of the game, so adjusting down the line is simple. But now they are going to need to increase the distance of some ships, reduce them in others, and make things more complicated than they should be.
TLDR; Crusader has 2 heavies, the Ares. Use another MFG for a heavy. MISC has large combat ships > SF Gemini, DRAKE has large combat ships > Kraken. Both have the knowhow to build a heavy fighter. Every other combat ship MFG has a heavy.
Anvil > Hurricane
Aegis > Vanguard - with interior, so best in game right now
Crusader > Ares
RSI > Scorpius
MISC > Zip
DRAKE > Zilch
Really interesting commentary and video. I assumed the acceleration numbers of the Scorpius would be underwhelming and it's good to see that you are able to capitalize on this in practice.
Do you think the Scorpius would have done a lot better in these fights if the pilot had sacrificed their own DPS to get you into a rate fight with its turret? I assume your tactic would be to disengage as soon as the Scorpius gets within 200-300m.
I'd be interested to hear how you think a Cutlass Blue (with gunner) would go vs the Scorpius as it has the highest acceleration rates of all the heavy fighters (that have a turret). It is obviously a lot more fragile than the Vanguard and has slightly less pilot DPS.
Unreal game.play. great video. So glad I found thos channel. Earned a sub today man. Will def checknout more of you
I love my Sentinel...Was torn between the Scorpius and Sentinel during the Invictus week sale, but went with the Sentinel, and after watching this vid Im sure I made the right decision
sorry ia sure you must have answered this but i haven't found it. are putting attr4 on gimbal or without? can you have combination of gimbal and non-gimbaled weapons in same weapons group? does gimbal mount have other disadvantages beside -1 weapon size? thanks in advance
as a proud original concept backer of the vanguard when it was first introduced, im glad to see after all these years its still one of the best fighters you can use. even for pvp. i hope i remains a solid standard in the game. as it should for something named, the Vanguard
Does the sentinel still have a performance difference in movement than the other vanguards? I have a hoplite and was wondering if this content applies to it as well.
Learned a lot by watching this; just got a Scorpius for PvE (with a mate), am beginning to understand how little I know about space combat. 🙂
I am neither great or terrible at pvp, but this video alone gave me some many tips, lots of little things and nuances, thx so much!
Nice video, with the upcoming invictus what do you think about the Harbinger? Was going to grab it.
Thank you for the analysis A-1.
Very educational. As always.
Great video and tips, you have my sub and look forward to more
Awesome showing dude. So much with this damn game lol
Ever try the 4 distortion nose repeaters? And Either a Balistic repeater or laser repeater? Alas I Have a Harb, So I have to keep a build that takes on HH reasonably. But curious if you think it is viable in a dog fight too?
Wondering how would you bind the emp on the Virpil alphas? Firing the emp will require you shooting your weapon group one too?
Awesome video Brother!!
So you use gimbaled 4 repeater as main gun in PVP for Vanguard? And the Attrition since it increases DPS the longer it fires? Also what are the best shields for Vanguard?
When I first hopped into my Scorpius I have noticed not just the raw forward accel to be lackluster, but also the translational-rate is rather weak, lot's of drift happening while trying to pull high G-Turns, I don't think I managed to break 10 G's in a turn within SCM.
I guess it's nice to see a old ship still doing what it's supposed to do, but I would love to see something to match it or slightly dethrone it
Amazing tactics. Thanks for sharing...
Now that's chad-guarding :)
I tried doing this but its very difficult with my keyboard, do you think i need a joystick for real for the dogfights?
Its amazing how little the scorpius is able to deflect as well. If the scorpius cannot set the pace of the fight due to lack of speed, and it cannot do any meaningful deflections then like you say it is truly just a trade fighter. Quite a shame really.
Great lesson..thanks. Would it make much of a difference fighting with the scorpious wings folded back, reducing its cross section and having more of its firepower down the centre of the ship as opposed to it being out wide where shots easily miss?
If you fold the wings then it fires through your fuselage which is not ideal :-)
@@RobinHartJones but it stills fires without damage.....
with a smaller convergence point
So how do the other Vanguard variants stack up? Sentinel is kind of the optimal case for a 1v1.
The Scorpius has such a huge cross section, it's actually hard to miss! Get into the right angle, straff and fire while the Scorpius will just catch all your shots on its huge wings. Have been shooting down many Scorpiuses during Invictus, lol. But as with anything, it's the pilot that makes the biggest difference and I'm not a great pilot, so I assume I was just facing lost of people who were not full time players.
“He chose death!”
Do you prefer the Attrition-4 gimbaled to a fixed Attrition-5? If so, why?
Velocity
planning on getting VKBs and pedals soon
So in this case, how a Gladiator would fare against a Scorpius? Seeing acceleration is a big part of why the Vanguard was able to come out on top for this fight and the Gladiator last I recall was actually decent for PVP because of its acceleration profile plus its large health pool.
lets do it, I will see if we can get that test running
Gladius arrow Sabre and so forth all do very well against the scorpius. The scorpius isn't all too special as people think and in comparing go the hurricane I'll take my hurricane instead. The scorpius sadly just isn't that great. It needs buffs not nerfs.
Since CIG is discussing balance between fighters, I'd love to see a video with your take on how CIG could achieve this.
Watch my latest video
In the vid you mentioned the Vanguard having 13g's for forward thrust. Was there a nerf since this vid? Erkul only shows 7.7g's. I'm confused at the discrepency.
What is the load out that you’re using on the vanguard? I’m experimenting with a few different builds to figure out what will be really good for combat
All laser repeaters
This was very intriguing to watch. I’m always interested in getting better at PvP but most of the time I don’t play long enough to buy other ships. The only things I do have to compete with is an extremely nerfed Cutlass and the Buccaneer. I look forward to learning more from you! o7 EDIT: If anyone could recommend some other ships to me that would be nice. I think the Buccaneer is still good.
Gladius will always be one of the best because its the main ship in SQ42
Now I know that the Scorpius, Hurricane and one other (Gladiator?)...sit within a certain dynamic that CIG has built.
Which Dynamic do the Vanguards sit in? I would interested in that comparison.
Question: ATTRITION-4 or CF-447 RHINO? Or does it not matter atm?
I see you were using the Attrition-4 in a fixed setup (likely due to S5 guns having lower ammo speed and higher capacitor drain?) but was that for a specific reason or is it just personal preference to go with the Attrition or Rhino? They look like they are completely identical on Erkul so I was really wondering if there's any difference at all atm. 🙂
No difference, it's all about weapon velocity and the S4 guns are identical cept for sound and color
@@Avenger__One Thanks for the response, I appreciate it!
Yeah that's what I figured as the numbers were completely identical. As I recall the Attrition used to have a special ability where it dealt more damage the more it overheated; but now that we no longer have that overheating mechanic and instead have capacitors. So I'm wondering how CIG are going to make the Attrition-series and the CF-series different. I guess they could give them different RoF and damage-per-shot or something. But yeah, I was mainly wondering if your choice for the Attrition was based on any hidden ability or just for looks. 😃
What do you do about missiles right now? when im running pirate im totally unable to use my sentinel due to the 40k em (twice what a carrack has) . Everyone seems to just drop missiles for days.
Set flare bust size to 9+
Nice ! I got à Warden, is it good too or i should upgrade it to Sentinel ?
Would the acceleration and other tactics displays in this video also translate to the Warden, or just the Sentinel?
Yes
Great video!!
Liked your new intro music.. Not so aggressive.. Peacefully learning
When I used an Vanguard I found it harder to turn , as for the scorpius I thought it would have been quick enough to fly out of your guns over the top ?. but very interesting to watch how you fly and still stay in the fight when your shields are down
I saw your still gunning with the gimbled Attrition - 4 yet, never use/need to un-fixed fire with it.
Is it worth going up to a fixed size 5 (less shots/ more power draw, More damage per shot? )
No, S5 velocity too slow
@@Avenger__One yeah that's the sad part. Even the S5 repeater is 700 velocity. My Vanguard is set up for PVE. I have cannons on everything, so I do mount a Size 5.
@@Avenger__One GTK Thanks 1% baby ! Woo Yeah
I'm currently flying a Warden and experiencing issues where my shields don't absorb any lazer repeater fire. I take hull damage with full shield HP. @Avenger_One have you noticed anything like this in a Vanguard?
Great one
Sidenote: did you ever try gameglass in general? Actually thinking about getting some devices for mfds but my initial impression is its better to have hotkeys on my verpils than having to leave my Hand of the stick to use the mfd
I have a pair of streamdecks I use for the same purpose, set up to give me minimum time with my hands off-stick to hit hit controls. Even so, I keep all the things I'll want *right now* on the sticks. tried GG first, but didn't like the lack of tactile feedback from something that can't give an accurate status readout (that's waiting for CIG to release an API, not GG's fault at all).
I use voice attack. Works really well.
I have tried both Voice Attack and Gameglass but I have wasted my money because I still instinctively hit the JS or KB keys anyway :-)
Would you say straight laser repeaters for vanguard or a mix of laser and distortion repeaters?
All laser Repeaters
i am SOOO GLAD! i picked up a sentinel haha i had a gut feeling something like this would happen and glad I was right!
holy shit ur an ace pilot for sure
Do you have any videos on what loadout you are using on the Vanguard?
All repeaters all day, even if you have too down gun to keep your weapons at 1400 m/s
Wich vanguard it's the Best for solo?
I really like the vanguard. Its hands down my favorite daily driver in The verse.
And it's nice to see it being relevant even in pvp.
But to be honest. I saw you take on arrows in a bucc. So If I see a crewed scorpius I'll try to take it on , but probably end up running 😁
Nice video. Would you be willing to do a video on how to use the Inferno? I have one and it has been a struggle to say the least. I was wondering if you have some tactics to make it viable.
Best to avoid it ATM for any pvp outside of engaging very large targets
The best way to use the inferno is to melt it and get an eclipse. :P
@@sokkits4231 I'm super close to doing just that.
you sir could pilot a brick and beat a hammerhead 👏
Im quite confused by this as i thought the vanguard had fixed nose weapons and from the video it looks like its gimbaled. When i fly with the vanguard im always aiming ahead of the target unlike what is shown in here. Just got back to the game since 2014 so idk how things work anymore.
Great job
Dope!
How were you adjusting the shields to foward?
Num pad 8
It would be even easier fight if he uses missiles or had harbringer and uses torpedos every time he get some distance to recharge shields. And with new AD5B gatling as main weapon it would be even easier fight coss he would constantly damage hull through shields and did not need to wait for recharge.
I love how you say the scorp is "garbage" in such high skilled fights but in reality if you switched ships it really would turns the fight around imo. :D
That way be true but these guy I know are good pilots, problem is the Scorpius can't close distance
@@Avenger__One I see that the stats sadly aren't good, but just saying that while fighting against it in a M50 (Intro) is hilarious ^^
@@N0xtron We ran multiple tests when this ship came out, including arrows. It's a lot of fun to kill scorps in arrows. I can see the m50 being fun too :)
Scorpius and Sentinels make tasty snacks for my Arrow.
howd you make the predicted hit thing be the follow instead of it being what you move your mouse to?
gameplay options and I set a button to switch on my stick
@@Avenger__One oh cool I'll just have to actually explore the options when I log on tonight
1 of the things that drew me to the vanguard over all other main combat ships, after owning sabre, super hornet, etc. Was that the weapons are centerline. When your on target you have everythings hiting, even if you can / are firing less. The scorpius, Seems to shoot alot cause not everything is gonna hit, even with a convergence point.
convergence is bugged, it should be significantly improved once they fix it..... in 3 years
@@RentableSocks yeah, im certain there will be a poiint where its on par. But my point was, for the vanguard i like the center based guns, like some of the planes from WW2 games, comparitivly to the like wing mounted guns like the P51 "my fav ww2 fighter", which has more area covered, but not as focused firing patterns.
@@maddogpcgs oh no doubt the vanguard is great and has tons of firepower, but it is stuck with fixed basically, a problem that the scorpius doesn't have. I'm flying the scorp (fixed size 3 cannons, thinking about moving to gimbal s2) right now, and admittedly it is more difficult to clear bounties safely compared to the sentinel with its big boi nose cannon as well. that thing just shreds.
@@RentableSocks Yeah im thinkin i might have to upgrade my Warden to Sent or Harb. And i do want a scorp, but will probalby be something i earn in game.. I like the lazer cannons, with a deadbolt, but i keep hearing the sent or harb can pack a bigger punch
@@maddogpcgs IF you mostly solo - Vanguard is a better choice over the Scorp - for what $30?
Better yet - an Andromeda. Now you've got a ground vehicle, snub and decent solo gunboat. (Not PVP focused)
Avenger, I wondered what your opinion is on CIG looking to bring combat flight speeds down further per calling all Devs on Friday?
Sorry if you've been asked this loads already and I know CIG purposefully didn't talk about the implementation so it might be difficult for you to comment?
Thanks for the video!
Very good, combat within 600 is much better
I think it's good, the whole "joust and circle" thing is getting tiring, with a combat flight speed decrease we should see more variety in how people approach fighting in general.
Thanks A1. I'm a long term backer but not got much PVP experience RN. As a gut reaction I liked the idea of tighter combat, but was interested in the opinion of a seasoned pilot who clearly knows combat in this game.
@@tevarinvagabond1192 to my mind, it will take a pretty big overhaul of how the flight model works to get rid on the circling. it seems to me that, if left how it is now just slower and closer, you will still end up with merge, strafe to keep nose on. Dont get me wrong, it is a good idea to bring make combat slower and closer, I just dont see it making that much difference other than fights being shorter with the current flight model. Here's hoping :)
Honestly tho a lesser pilot would of lost and a slightly better poilet would know what you know about the vanguards advantage. Now knowing this to counter the van could he of boosted into you before you boost away in hopes to catch you before you put distance on the fight? Or can you just keep the distance with ease?
How can you beat the range control with 30% less Acceleration. 10gs on Scorpius, 14gs with Vanguard....it's math, even with proper circle cutting, your always going to be outa range if the Vanguard knows how to Counter move
Geez I didn't know it was 30% ya even if you boost into them early to catch them before they try pulling away its hopeless. I guess pull them into atmospheric combat is your best chance.
What build are you using on your vanguard?
I am useing all GVSR repeaters with S4 repeater nose
The sentinel is my fav ship, it was the ion until they nerfed it! Combined with the EMP it is a dangerous ship! I use cannons, must say in PvP its faired really well even against smaller fighters (not sure how good the pilots were! LOL) I had no intention of using the Scorp, i didn't think it was going to be able to take the Sentinel all being equal! Looking at that vid, had you used your EMP it clearly would have been over sooner!
Working on PVP is hard....not ready to go all evil .... but may have 2 as bounties just log.... I would prefer to get more practice due to time in jail ... Nice to see a good fight...
Excellent fight, though it reinforces my belief that the Scorpius is best as a heavy interceptor. It will excel at taking out bombers, dropships, cuttys, and ships like the Herc where the tops speed is so very low.
I am actually quite curious how the Scorpius would fare against a Redeemer as well. You should do a video on that, for science of course!
Problem is Vanguard can still kill whatever the Scorpius can, Scorpius needs options and she's got none cept overwhelming figherpower that you can't apply to a good pilot
The scorpius would get shredded by a redeemer or a hammerhead, its size and not so good maneuverability makes it food for large turrets. It might have a shot at evading the size 5 slow weapons, but the scorpius is best at trading damage, which it can't do against aniything that has better shields and better guns than itself.
@@Avenger__One I will defer to your opinion there when it comes to straight dog fights. 1 v 1 there is nothing the Scorpius can do the Vanguards cannot.
However, I was not referring to 1 v 1s so much as I am referring to larger scale battles which are likely to happen in the future where larger battles are supposed to happen. Whether or not they will is up for debate but CIG does seem to be making progress in that direction as the decrease in desync seems to be effective.
And while I may be a bit hopeful, the Scorpius is not yet in its final form, nor are any of the fighters as mechanics may still change.
But I am no ace, nor am I even an excellent pilot, things may not change and I am not married to the Scorpius. I see the potential and I see a possibly very good role for it, it just needs a small tweak.
Also, apologies for the novels worth of text, wanted to get across what I was thinking when I said that.
Shields double front? S turns? What's that?
You prefer the sentinel over the warden with a size 5 nose weapon?
Size 4 because all Size 5 guns are 700 M/s ineffective, watch my video on Weapon Velocity
@@Avenger__One true, but what about the slight extra damage? Not worth it you think? Because if so then I'll swap my S5 for a S4 for my Warden.
are you playing with a joy stick or mouse and keyboard?
Double joystick with peddles
@@Avenger__One What's the advantage over a single joystick? Was looking at a joystick and accelerator.
@@Tampainian more directional controls over a hotas setup
“He chose death” LOL
I forgot the Vanguard had 2x shield. :'D
I wonder what it would be like if it could sweep the wings back for high acceleration like CIG said they wanted to do.
alt + k folds the wings in without lowering the landing gear on the scorpius. they added this new keybind and i'm not sure if any other ships have a use for it.
@@veruskrutch4141 Yeah, but in this week's ISC, they said they wanted that mode to give it massive acceleration or speed and didn't have time before its release.
This makes me wonder what they have yet to add to ship management/combat that can change engagements.
I know that boosting into the red is supposed to damage the ship, but that's not in yet.
I dunno if armor values have been officially added yet...
Heat management/overclocking seems non-existent, and stealth/missiles are kinda in rework...
I wonder how armour will affect the meta when it comes in.
When armor is in there won't be a meta at all, lol
And when I say armor I mean the full modular damage system where we won't have HP bars for our ship but you will have to slowly chip away at the hull to damage components
My guess - it will make ballistics worthwhile.
The factor in just about every fight you get into is shield distribution and power management so really tough to say. Doing that changes so much.
Analytics!
Is that the sentinel or the base warden? Ah sentinel. Yeah I wanted to get that version since it's more nimble than the warden.
Vanguard Sentinel (fully crewed) vs Hurricane (fully crewed) would be fun to watch. Not sure if you've done that before or recently.
It's on the list
@@Avenger__One I must keep missing it. Or its named something else...
@@AledMify no like it's on the list to be made
I never understand, your speed is like 300-500 the whole time. How are you guys maintaining distance between each other while still facing each other constantly? Are one of you moving BACKWARDS? Any time I approach an enemy at 300 they end up blowing straight past me and now its a joust :(