*Note to self: Make sure of aircraft position before giving pushback instructions.* Edit: *Note to self 2: Wing walkers are your friends. Have wing walkers in your life.*
Scott Scouter Here’s the thing... pilots can’t see to the rear... at all. It’s not their responsibility. They’re not in control of the push: ground is. Tug drivers have to actually look. It’s also why wing walkers exist.
@@afcgeo882 Yeah. I think that's what Scott meant by "their ground crews". The B737 is so close to the ground. From that tug driver's point of view, it's very hard to see behind the aircraft.
*wing walkers cost too much money 💰for some of those companies.* *they rather repair wing tips and elevators all day.* *that is how some of these companies like to run.* *what is amazing about this situation is the blind tug operators.* *it is BOARD DAYLIGHT and they still hit each other.* *Just because the ground controller approved both pushes doesn't mean you can proceed blindly.* *too me the KLM tug operator is more at fault because he should been able to see the easy jet plane from his angle if he was looking. Plus he flew out of the gate with speed in the towbar less tractor only to stop in the blind spot of the easyjet tug operator.*
1bottlejackdaniels He was remarkably calm. Makes me wonder how many incidents like this occur at AMS. Anyone know how long they’ve worked without wing walkers?
I don’t know about y’all, but I don’t even trust my outboard cameras. I’m looking in mirrors and over my shoulders constantly! A pedestrian is a terrible thing to waste!
Small correction for the caption at 2:01, which has a mistranscription of the Dutch (and thus mistranslation in English). Correct version is: Kunnen wij niet beoordelen inderdaad Indeed, we can't evaluate that
At 2:01, I think he said "Kunnen wij niet beoordelen inderdaad" ("We can't judge that, indeed"), meaning he can't judge from the cockpit whether the aircraft are in some way interwoven with each other, in which case pulling forward back to the gate wouldn't be possible.
@@rolfen A Toyota might not fly but when it breaks down or runs out of gas on the road you can just pull over anytime, no stress needed. Not to mention that a Toyota never breaks down.
40 years in below wing operations. Worked in 3 major airports. In my experience the ramp (gate area) was considered uncontrolled. The tower would approve pushback but it was up to the ground crew to do so in a safe manner. Ground control only took over when the aircraft was ready to taxi. In my opinion this falls squarely on the ground crew and no one else.
It also falls on lacking regulations (wing-walkers anyone?) and the ATC telling them they are clear to push back when they are not. There is some reliance on them. Otherwise why even bother for a clearance? Most is on the tug drivers, but could they really see? Is it easy to tell the other aircraft is also backing up until they start a turn? That’s why wing-walkers are used. That’s why ground control is important.
Yes, in the US/NA but this is not North America. The ramp is a movement area (controlled), and ramp is ground controllers responsibility. Usualy since this helps avoid wait outside cul-de-sac taxiways. Ground crew communicates with cockpit, and gets to know when and where to push. It is hard for a sole pushback operator to see/predict other aircraft's movements. Perhaps an engine was blocking the view of the KLM. Although sad, this creates a "I have clearance, so it's safe" culture, and I am not supprised if the operator did not look twice.
Norway Swat This is not a regional issue. Most airports all over the world use wing-walkers to aid in push-backs. The EU is far behind the rest of the world on this. All to save money.
@@eldarm1853 Sole pushback operator being key, presumably two sole operators in this case. My airline tried the one man pushback after a coworker of mine walking with the headset tripped and was run over by the nose gear (757), yeah it was ugly. Luckily, clearer heads prevailed, and the standard in the U.S. is mandatory two wing walkers to provide a 360 degree view and cancel pushback long before this type of situation happens.
To think that 5-10 kilos of equipment on each aircraft could have prevented this (rear-view cameras mounted on top of the tail-fin). Especially at this airport that would be money well spent. Especially for KLM, which has had several ground collisions at several airports documented on this channel alone. EDIT: This is also why we use wing walkers in the US. Our airports are often more busy over here, both in the air and on the ground. More traffic needs more eyes to make sure accidents don't happen, but it still happens sometimes. I think ground collisions over here usually happen on the taxiways or ramp right next to the taxiways instead of inside the ramp itself like in this video, and by that time the wing walkers have moved on to helping the next plane pushing.
This is why it is better for the ground crew to ask for pushback. Second incident this year. Maybe it will be another pushback incident before the end of the year at EHAM.
@@Wulable steering is disabled during push and the only thing the pilots can do is to break but then you have risk of breaking nose wheel when you got 2 forces against each other. Backup camera wont make any huge change, plus pilots focus mainly on the instruments during pushback for engine start up.
This was a very unusual parking spot of the Easyjet. As the ground controller said, easyjet is always parked on the Hotel gates and in this special ocasion it was the Delta gates which the ground controller clearly didnt think about. Simple mistakes can happen as you can see. a lot of lessons learned here today !
There's something very interesting in the psychology field that we study and it's that we hear but we don't listen. This means we understand only the parts of a message that we are interested in or that would make our lives easier. Our mind thinks "who cares where you're parked. You always park at the same alley. I can disregard that information out of your transmission... push your discretion"... this is poor attention and it's something very common. However we pilots and controllers must try to deal with it and monitor closely the frequency at all times for situational awareness.
Who put a gun to the tug drivers’ heads and told them to drive into the other plane again? Did the ATC controller say “cleared to push back” or “must push back, immediately, despite hazards?”
@@VASAviation Yeah and that happens all across aviation, you aren't listening to the whole transmission alot of the time, you're just looking to pick out the few bits of information you expect to receive, the issue is if you expect one thing and get another there is a risk you hear what you want to hear, hence why readbacks are a thing, but even then the same happens in reverse, the controller expects to hear something in a readback and even if wrong might hear what he wants to hear.
They handled it very calmly. I was expecting there to be upset screaming. I’ll bet the passengers weren’t happy. Finally loaded only to have to deboard again.
mruppity64 The KLM pushback driver wouldn’t have been able to see directly behind the aircraft but the EJ driver should’ve been able to see and might not have noticed. I’m surprised they didn’t appear to have ground staffer walking alongside or wing walking or anything like that. Recipe for disaster.
There's something very interesting in the psychology field that we study and it's that we hear but we don't listen. This means we understand only the parts of a message that we are interested in or that would make our lives easier. Our mind thinks "who cares where you're parked. You always park at the same alley. I can disregard that information out of your transmission... push your discretion"... this is poor attention and it's something very common. However we pilots and controllers must try to deal with it and monitor closely the frequency at all times for situational awareness.
@@VASAviation just one thing as a former pilot, I was under the impression that Air comms should be in English? as Air Traffic was talking to KLM in dutch may be that helped with the mishap? may be, (and I could be wrong), if his comms were in English then Easy Pilot may have noticed sooner?
Also seems to be a huge mistake on the ground crew. You never take tower’s word to be the end all of safety. Always check where you’re going, and look for potential hazards in the way. If Ground says pushback approved and you see a deer on the tarmac behind you, do you just try to run it over? Another airplane is bigger and more obvious then most ground obstacles, but shouldn’t be ignored because ground told you it’s cool.
@@Hucksty You will always have situations where you divert from standard phraseology and in some of those situations it's easier to communicate in the native language (even if its not an ICAO language). All relevant instructions where done in english phraseology as you can see in the video. At least the controller admitted (on frequency) that he did a mistake (probably an expensive one)... If that helps his case, I dont know... Also it's not a big problem because both the easyJet and KLM speak dutch, so why not - would be only a dick move if one of the the parties is not able to speak dutch...
This may sound like "overkill", however, the 738 may require disassembly and replacement of a great deal of the real estate from the bulkhead-back. I've seen the processes used to construct the tail section subassembly of other 737's. Not only are they "jig built", there is a damn complex alignment verification procedure that uses CMM tech, that is verified several times with multi-axis laser measurement. Post JAL-123 procedures require it.
Well, as the controller said himself, misunderstanding and mistake on his part. Shows how a small change in daily routine can lead to an accident. Still, I admire how everyone remained professional and how cool the controller was. I hope he doesn't get too much of a scolding.
Partial. Ground controller, certainly, but also tug drivers of both aircraft, ground handling companies and regulatory bodies that allow for not using wing-walkers. Every side will blame the others, but they’re all at fault.
is there any time lapse between the two push and start approval? Seems like back to back from the clip. Should the controller wait a little to give the ok to KLM, or a warning to KLM that there someone else behind is moving?
Merrell Fanhauser Controllers don’t drive the tugs. They simply provide authorization to push. Safety is on the ground crew. If ATC gives you a “cleared for take-off”, but there’s a plane right in front of you, do you power up and go for it or do you stop and tell ATC, “unable”?
What is going on in Schiphol? Seems like every 4 MONTHS a collision occurs there with a KLM plane. One in October 2018, next was February 2019, and now this in July 2019.... The next collision will be November 2019? Can't wait.
I think this question has been asked before, but it seems to me that Amsterdam is one of the only airports I know of where I constantly hear ground controllers speak in their native language (Dutch), instead of English. Seems to me this should be a violation of some sort. Others benefit from hearing what ground is telling other aircraft, no?
Hi Couple of weeks ago, air india's Boeing 777 flying from Mumbai to EWR was diverted to Stansted apparently due to bomb threat. It was escorted by RAF jets after emergency was declared. Can you upload those recordings please?
Ouch! Iin my 20s, I worked in the ground tower atop concourse E at ATL (the international concourse). Granted we had a MUCH LARGER ramp (2 747-4s could pass with 6 feet clearance of wings), but we never even took that chance, bc all it takes is either (or both jets) being a few feet off the center line while passing, and that was too close to disaster to risk. I feel bad for the ground controller... without knowing his actual view... in some cases the controller may not be able to visually see all the gates they're responsible for. In that case, we ALWAYS advised pilots that they were cleared, BUT use extra caution and extra wing walkers bx we didn't have visibility of their aircraft. That critical info ALWAYS had to be made clear .
Milton Waddams yup. You are correct. There had to be at least 3 agents per plane on the tarmac during these pushbacks. How in the world do all of them not notice the collision conflict?! Embarrassing and they all should be fired.
Siddy how you mean? The smaller planes are most of the time getting pushed by 1 person, after the push he takes an pin out with a small flag to it then he drives back behind the red line gets out of his vehicle and waves the flag, at that moment the pilot is allowed to ask for a taxi route
@@nohacks7672 My airport and a few other have a person on each side of the wings during push back and walk with it until its disconnected from the tractor like in this video th-cam.com/video/fvhmh_34ysQ/w-d-xo.html
Just a couple months ago I did this with another car at the local Walmart. I was so angry about the $165 I ended up having to pay for the repair of damage. As this collision will be more in the realm of $1.65 million I feel less angry now but do feel bad for the people who lost their jobs this day....
How can people learn from a minor mistake if they are fired? This was enough to ensure that they would be even more alert for the rest of their career.
According to Flightradar24, the EasyJet flying that route was G-UZLD, flight delayed by 5 hours and the plane is already flying. OE-IVQ (the aircraft mentioned in the beginning) isnt a neo and isnt flying since the 8th of this month which is 1 day before this collision.
OE-IVQ flew last time on the 8th TO AMSTERDAM. The aircraft slept in Amsterdam. This happened the next day, aircraft grounded. The aircraft is STILL grounded at Amsterdam for repair. Happy?
Why are they actually speaking dutch instead of english? I mean, I get it klm dutch airline and it’s in ADAM but aren’t they supposed to always speak in English (ATC)? 👀
They can speak in their native language to native airlines (like KLM) but must be fluent in english if the flight deck does not speak the native language. But, I see where you going with this too. If they had spoke to the KLM flight in english the Easy Jet may have reminded the Tower that they just gave them clearance to push as well....
wizbang68 interesting and indeed. I’ve watched some ATC recordings where the deck (e.g. LH) and the person in Frankfurt still spoke English instead of German which made me think that English has to be used universally to prevent misunderstandings etc.
@@miischax Wasn't it just the greetings that were in Dutch at first? The push back clearance was in English which is the essential part so the Easy Jet could've picked it up but I totally get where you're coming from. I kinda get the feeling the Easy Jet pilot spoke Dutch too but I'm not sure.
Nope offcourse not, there are 60-70 planes landing and departing each hour and we only have 3-4 marshallers driving every shift the nightshift they do it with 2 guys
Why do GND controllers coordinate pushbacks, usually there are dedicated ramp controllers for that and GND only comes into play when joining a taxiway.
No, that's incorrect. As per ICAO, one of the responsibilities of the aerodrome controller is "assist in preventing collisions between aircraft on the apron." I know ramp controllers exist in the US, but in most places the whole movement area belongs to the aerodrome controller.
The pilots were probably relieved at the fact that this accident was 100% not their fault. It's a lot easier to have sense of humor when you know that somebody else is going the be the one who's in trouble.
Supposed to, and actually do are 2 very different things, it's quite common here for pilots in the UK to have issues in France where the controllers and pilots are speaking french and you don't actually know what is going on around you.
I think someone should recommend for future aircraft design a wide-angle camera built into the fuselage to prevent something like this from happening that faces the rear of the aircraft., and I'm sure that maintenance can buff those scratches right out, it is amazing what proper application of 300 mile an hour tape and some Flex Seal can do.!.! I close my comment with two words fly safe.
The ground controller was obviously to blame....but what we're both tug drivers looking at? Madness, and imagine a fuel leak or fire. Some people need retrained and watched closely
Last day on the job for ground crew who are responsible to insure there are no obstacles or obstructions in the path of the aircraft they are pushing back.
Can't look under a b737ng in a tug you are to high and the aircraft low. Nonetheless i havent seen tip walkers on schiphol for a while. Mistake is made by ground control
Ground crew for not double checking sure, but also the ATC Ground controller. After all the controller admitted that they made a mistake and thought that the two aircraft were at completely separate gates instead of back-to-back.
Well it happens on car parking lots around the world all the time. But with aircraft on airports with full coverage on every movement on ground this is really embarrassing. Also, Usually damage to aircraft is significantly more expensive to repair then cars.
Stuff like that is why I look at the driver seats of surrounding cars on the way to my car, to see what cars are likely to be pulling out at the same time. A little care and attention goes a long way
Neil Martin there are no wingwalkers in The Netherlands (Or Europe actually, that really is an American thing) so it would be the tugdriver only. As for the ground controller. The Easyjet aircraft are normally parked at another pier so when the Easyjet requested push back I think the controller automatically checked the Hotel pier instead of the Delta pier hence the pushback clearance for both aircraft. Still the tugdrivers should have checked and stopped pushback when they saw another aircraft
To the people wondering what came of the ATC's job.. more than likely nothing, except a preach by his supervisor. Making a humanly mistake is no grounds for a job termination in The Netherlands. Unless this guy was an intern or on a contract for a predetermined amount of time (in which case he still wouldn't be able to be fired, just probably not getting another contract) So yeah. Probably nothing at all.
yeah, I guess some guys job is more important than 300 odd passengers lives. To be honest I'd get rid of the ground crew involved and the ATC management who seem to be incompetent by allowing an environment where this can happen. I'm sorry but there should be zero tolerance on this, personally, i don't give a flying f about any of their jobs, they shouldn't have them if they can't do them.
![[REAL ATC] Qantas suffers depressurization | Pilot becomes incapacitated](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uCQE77K8GUw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] Qantas suffers depressurization | Pilot becomes incapacitated](/img/tr.png)
*Note to self: Make sure of aircraft position before giving pushback instructions.*
Edit: *Note to self 2: Wing walkers are your friends. Have wing walkers in your life.*
They don't use wingwalkers in Amsterdam.
Scott Scouter Here’s the thing... pilots can’t see to the rear... at all. It’s not their responsibility. They’re not in control of the push: ground is. Tug drivers have to actually look. It’s also why wing walkers exist.
@@afcgeo882 Yeah. I think that's what Scott meant by "their ground crews".
The B737 is so close to the ground. From that tug driver's point of view, it's very hard to see behind the aircraft.
Wing-walkers don't position themselves correctly half the time anyway.
*wing walkers cost too much money 💰for some of those companies.* *they rather repair wing tips and elevators all day.* *that is how some of these companies like to run.*
*what is amazing about this situation is the blind tug operators.* *it is BOARD DAYLIGHT and they still hit each other.* *Just because the ground controller approved both pushes doesn't mean you can proceed blindly.*
*too me the KLM tug operator is more at fault because he should been able to see the easy jet plane from his angle if he was looking. Plus he flew out of the gate with speed in the towbar less tractor only to stop in the blind spot of the easyjet tug operator.*
that's one of the calmest "oopsies" i've heard by an ATC...
"i can't do anything. anyway my apologies..."
the dutch way to say "shit happens!"
Jayfive276 coming from the virgin who post Minecraft videos on his channel.
1bottlejackdaniels He was remarkably calm. Makes me wonder how many incidents like this occur at AMS. Anyone know how long they’ve worked without wing walkers?
Jayfive276 lmao this kid just told him to grow up and his entire channel is composed of Minecraft videos. Mate shut the fuck up and get a life.
I think the discussion on cannabis consumption is justified, because this controller sounds loaded.
This is typical Dutch calmness 😂
I'd rather be on the ground wishing to be in the air then being in the air wishing to be on the ground
Lol. Super note.
That's the truth!
Sooo original...
Just an average day at my local supermarket parking lot.
But few zeroes more on insurance bill.
I don’t know about y’all, but I don’t even trust my outboard cameras. I’m looking in mirrors and over my shoulders constantly! A pedestrian is a terrible thing to waste!
Wow, thank you folks for the thumbs up! That was the first thought that came into my head while watching this video. LOL
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 oh well there's 7 billion more of them
Tower: KLM push back.
KLM: unable, exchanging details with the other driver.
Oh shit, I'm glad I wasn't that guy that approved pushback of both planes at the same time.
Could we all just give a huge round of applause to the ATC who pushed them both back at the same time.
Now that's efficiency..
And in different languages. Ffs.
Ohh the Dutch people are so cool. They kept it civil, albeit a collision just happened. Imagine if it had taken place in JFK.
"Gahd fuckin' day-mitt ahm' pushin' back ova' heeeere!"
"Hell no, fuck YO momma, not mahn!"
Quite literally A320 Vs B737
Now... to see who one just let them start and see who gets the furthest
Nobody won this day 🥺
Once the wing tips collide Duel of the Fates from Star Wars Episode 1 starts to play.
Team 737 here!
I think the a320 got the worst of it. Harder to repair than a cracked stabilizer.
this is why you need that beeping sound when reversing
I guess close meetings are safer on the ground than in the air ... :)
Small correction for the caption at 2:01, which has a mistranscription of the Dutch (and thus mistranslation in English). Correct version is:
Kunnen wij niet beoordelen inderdaad
Indeed, we can't evaluate that
There goes the no claim bonus.
At 2:01, I think he said "Kunnen wij niet beoordelen inderdaad" ("We can't judge that, indeed"), meaning he can't judge from the cockpit whether the aircraft are in some way interwoven with each other, in which case pulling forward back to the gate wouldn't be possible.
I love how everyone handled this so calmly
Yeah? I'd like to hear what the passengers had to say.
There is just no use in getting aggravated when it has already happened. Learn from it and move on.
@@Vinzmannn What did the passengers learn? :) Avoid flights from this airport?
K Kr luckily the passengers don’t have anything to say to this :)
I'd like to have heard the pilots telling their passengers "we just bumped into another plane- shall we takeoff anyway?"
My cheap Toyota comes standard with a backup camera to avoid this kind of stuff from happening. Just saying..
that was ignorant but ok
But, can your cheap Toyota fly?
@@rolfen A Toyota might not fly but when it breaks down or runs out of gas on the road you can just pull over anytime, no stress needed. Not to mention that a Toyota never breaks down.
@@ruemignon I was about to say that lol a Toyota wouldn't break down in the first place
That's some fine Top Gear material right there! lol
I'm used to seeing this stuff on the Russian car accident channel. Never thought I'd ever see it here though...
But those Russians have more fun.
40 years in below wing operations. Worked in 3 major airports. In my experience the ramp (gate area) was considered uncontrolled. The tower would approve pushback but it was up to the ground crew to do so in a safe manner. Ground control only took over when the aircraft was ready to taxi. In my opinion this falls squarely on the ground crew and no one else.
It also falls on lacking regulations (wing-walkers anyone?) and the ATC telling them they are clear to push back when they are not. There is some reliance on them. Otherwise why even bother for a clearance? Most is on the tug drivers, but could they really see? Is it easy to tell the other aircraft is also backing up until they start a turn? That’s why wing-walkers are used. That’s why ground control is important.
Major Tom to ground control, you stupid idiots!!!
Yes, in the US/NA but this is not North America. The ramp is a movement area (controlled), and ramp is ground controllers responsibility. Usualy since this helps avoid wait outside cul-de-sac taxiways. Ground crew communicates with cockpit, and gets to know when and where to push. It is hard for a sole pushback operator to see/predict other aircraft's movements. Perhaps an engine was blocking the view of the KLM. Although sad, this creates a "I have clearance, so it's safe" culture, and I am not supprised if the operator did not look twice.
Norway Swat This is not a regional issue. Most airports all over the world use wing-walkers to aid in push-backs. The EU is far behind the rest of the world on this. All to save money.
@@eldarm1853 Sole pushback operator being key, presumably two sole operators in this case. My airline tried the one man pushback after a coworker of mine walking with the headset tripped and was run over by the nose gear (757), yeah it was ugly. Luckily, clearer heads prevailed, and the standard in the U.S. is mandatory two wing walkers to provide a 360 degree view and cancel pushback long before this type of situation happens.
Reading "Collision" and "KLM" in a title causes flashbacks
Darkbase you’re referring to the two 747s colliding years ago? It was pretty ugly
*The runway is speaking Pan-Am*
Tenerife . . .
To think that 5-10 kilos of equipment on each aircraft could have prevented this (rear-view cameras mounted on top of the tail-fin).
Especially at this airport that would be money well spent. Especially for KLM, which has had several ground collisions at several airports documented on this channel alone.
EDIT: This is also why we use wing walkers in the US. Our airports are often more busy over here, both in the air and on the ground. More traffic needs more eyes to make sure accidents don't happen, but it still happens sometimes. I think ground collisions over here usually happen on the taxiways or ramp right next to the taxiways instead of inside the ramp itself like in this video, and by that time the wing walkers have moved on to helping the next plane pushing.
This is why it is better for the ground crew to ask for pushback. Second incident this year. Maybe it will be another pushback incident before the end of the year at EHAM.
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt and sues
I still think the pilots should have a backup camera and comms with wing walkers.
@@Wulable steering is disabled during push and the only thing the pilots can do is to break but then you have risk of breaking nose wheel when you got 2 forces against each other. Backup camera wont make any huge change, plus pilots focus mainly on the instruments during pushback for engine start up.
This was a very unusual parking spot of the Easyjet. As the ground controller said, easyjet is always parked on the Hotel gates and in this special ocasion it was the Delta gates which the ground controller clearly didnt think about. Simple mistakes can happen as you can see. a lot of lessons learned here today !
Perhaps, but the Easyjet pilot did state which gate he was at.
@@bishwatntl probably and kind of obvious he didnt hear that. He didnt have his morning coffee yet😛
There's something very interesting in the psychology field that we study and it's that we hear but we don't listen. This means we understand only the parts of a message that we are interested in or that would make our lives easier. Our mind thinks "who cares where you're parked. You always park at the same alley. I can disregard that information out of your transmission... push your discretion"... this is poor attention and it's something very common. However we pilots and controllers must try to deal with it and monitor closely the frequency at all times for situational awareness.
Who put a gun to the tug drivers’ heads and told them to drive into the other plane again? Did the ATC controller say “cleared to push back” or “must push back, immediately, despite hazards?”
@@VASAviation Yeah and that happens all across aviation, you aren't listening to the whole transmission alot of the time, you're just looking to pick out the few bits of information you expect to receive, the issue is if you expect one thing and get another there is a risk you hear what you want to hear, hence why readbacks are a thing, but even then the same happens in reverse, the controller expects to hear something in a readback and even if wrong might hear what he wants to hear.
They handled it very calmly. I was expecting there to be upset screaming.
I’ll bet the passengers weren’t happy. Finally loaded only to have to deboard again.
They had to wait a long time to deboard too. I wonder if the airlines gave them any vouchers for their trouble. KLM maybe. easyJet, almost no chance
That's why on some airports ground staff is responsible for the hole push back procedure.
Lol this is like the Boeing B737 and the Airbus A320 fighting to gain the title "World's Fastest and Best Selling Aircrafts''
Don't the ground push back team look to see all is clear, despite whatever anybody is cleared to do!
mruppity64 The KLM pushback driver wouldn’t have been able to see directly behind the aircraft but the EJ driver should’ve been able to see and might not have noticed. I’m surprised they didn’t appear to have ground staffer walking alongside or wing walking or anything like that. Recipe for disaster.
Pushback is usually done by just one person in AMS, I guess regulations may change after this.
Ben Goldstraw Here, there were two tug drivers, one on each side, and neither bothered to look.
@@RipRoaringGarage I don't know where 'we' lives, but if that's the USA, is doesn't surprise me
DAC Dynasty Who is this “we”?
Just be thankful the collision happened on the ground and not underwater
Understandable mistake from the ground controller since EasyJet normally operates from the H pier, still very dumb that he didn’t check nonetheless.
There's something very interesting in the psychology field that we study
and it's that we hear but we don't listen. This means we understand
only the parts of a message that we are interested in or that would make
our lives easier. Our mind thinks "who cares where you're parked. You
always park at the same alley. I can disregard that information out of
your transmission... push your discretion"... this is poor attention and
it's something very common. However we pilots and controllers must try
to deal with it and monitor closely the frequency at all times for
situational awareness.
@@VASAviation just one thing as a former pilot, I was under the impression that Air comms should be in English? as Air Traffic was talking to KLM in dutch may be that helped with the mishap? may be, (and I could be wrong), if his comms were in English then Easy Pilot may have noticed sooner?
Also seems to be a huge mistake on the ground crew. You never take tower’s word to be the end all of safety. Always check where you’re going, and look for potential hazards in the way.
If Ground says pushback approved and you see a deer on the tarmac behind you, do you just try to run it over? Another airplane is bigger and more obvious then most ground obstacles, but shouldn’t be ignored because ground told you it’s cool.
Hucksty naaah depends on local regulations.
@@Hucksty You will always have situations where you divert from standard phraseology and in some of those situations it's easier to communicate in the native language (even if its not an ICAO language).
All relevant instructions where done in english phraseology as you can see in the video. At least the controller admitted (on frequency) that he did a mistake (probably an expensive one)... If that helps his case, I dont know...
Also it's not a big problem because both the easyJet and KLM speak dutch, so why not - would be only a dick move if one of the the parties is not able to speak dutch...
looked like two cars reversing out of a supermarket car park
This may sound like "overkill", however, the 738 may require disassembly and replacement of a great deal of the real estate from the bulkhead-back. I've seen the processes used to construct the tail section subassembly of other 737's. Not only are they "jig built", there is a damn complex alignment verification procedure that uses CMM tech, that is verified several times with multi-axis laser measurement. Post JAL-123 procedures require it.
And where does all that complicated repair work take place?
Well, as the controller said himself, misunderstanding and mistake on his part. Shows how a small change in daily routine can lead to an accident. Still, I admire how everyone remained professional and how cool the controller was. I hope he doesn't get too much of a scolding.
Curious to who gets the blame here.. Ground controller I would assume?
Yes. He made an error. Probably the insurance company of Schiphol will take care of the payment.
Ramp agents. They should’ve seen the conflict.
Partial. Ground controller, certainly, but also tug drivers of both aircraft, ground handling companies and regulatory bodies that allow for not using wing-walkers. Every side will blame the others, but they’re all at fault.
*ground controllers partially contributed.* *main blame is the klm tug operator pushing like a blind man.*
I wonder how much the KLM tug could see ... they're in the straight pushback there. the Easyjet tug might have had a better field of view.
is there any time lapse between the two push and start approval? Seems like back to back from the clip. Should the controller wait a little to give the ok to KLM, or a warning to KLM that there someone else behind is moving?
Gap or not, he gave pushback to two aircraft that were on opposite gates.
Merrell Fanhauser Controllers don’t drive the tugs. They simply provide authorization to push. Safety is on the ground crew.
If ATC gives you a “cleared for take-off”, but there’s a plane right in front of you, do you power up and go for it or do you stop and tell ATC, “unable”?
who gives the controller a phone number to call
Amsterdamn could start implementing wing walkers for added safety. Some companies in North America require these marshallers.
KLM plus collision? Where have I heard that before?
What is going on in Schiphol?
Seems like every 4 MONTHS a collision occurs there with a KLM plane.
One in October 2018, next was February 2019, and now this in July 2019....
The next collision will be November 2019? Can't wait.
It's like a SovietWomble video
Boy, I'm bet KLM love crashing, I seen all them KLM was fault.
The busier and airport gets, the more pressure the pilots and controllers feel, & the most mistakes are made ☹️
I think this question has been asked before, but it seems to me that Amsterdam is one of the only airports I know of where I constantly hear ground controllers speak in their native language (Dutch), instead of English. Seems to me this should be a violation of some sort. Others benefit from hearing what ground is telling other aircraft, no?
Only in emergency or special situations
Dutch is quite a language! They sure love tugs colliding planes in Amsterdam.
Should have said "possible controller deviation, when you have a moment I have a number for you to call"...
That's a very expensive mistake
Haha wtf this is just so stupid xD
I like how the controller just said: "Yeah and euhh, if possible just push back to the gate"
Hi
Couple of weeks ago, air india's Boeing 777 flying from Mumbai to EWR was diverted to Stansted apparently due to bomb threat. It was escorted by RAF jets after emergency was declared. Can you upload those recordings please?
Highly doubt that will happen. The UK doesn't allow ATC to be monitored by outsiders, let alone go online.
@@Antonio_4 oh,didn't know that!
@@TheMihirj *Unfortunately, as someone from the UK it irritates me no end.
Ouch! Iin my 20s, I worked in the ground tower atop concourse E at ATL (the international concourse). Granted we had a MUCH LARGER ramp (2 747-4s could pass with 6 feet clearance of wings), but we never even took that chance, bc all it takes is either (or both jets) being a few feet off the center line while passing, and that was too close to disaster to risk. I feel bad for the ground controller... without knowing his actual view... in some cases the controller may not be able to visually see all the gates they're responsible for. In that case, we ALWAYS advised pilots that they were cleared, BUT use extra caution and extra wing walkers bx we didn't have visibility of their aircraft. That critical info ALWAYS had to be made clear .
What's the likely cconsequences for the air traffic controller?
Please enter a stronger password cake or death
None
@@nohacks7672 but it shouldn't have happened??
@@curtiswhyte3297 thank you for your reply, bit of a novice here. Have a good day!
The pilots are the least responsible for this. What was ATC as well as the ramp agents thinking?
Pilots have no responsibility here. They are not expected to see what is behind them.
SMaze17 Probably daydreaming about red lights.
Milton Waddams yup. You are correct. There had to be at least 3 agents per plane on the tarmac during these pushbacks. How in the world do all of them not notice the collision conflict?! Embarrassing and they all should be fired.
@@smaze1782 Ground staff often aren't the sharpest ones...
@@smaze1782 easy advice: fire them, go into the streets and find better ones, smarty.
Any word regarding the turbulence experienced by Air Canada which had to divert to Honolulu?
Affirm
I always pronounced it hon-ho-looloo
Mirror, Signal, Maneuver is what I was taught in my driving test...
pity you weren’t taught to spell at school (manoeuvre)
@@goldenkoi23 At least tmo72 starts a sentence with a CAP and ends the sentence with dots.
@@goldenkoi23 It's called regional variations in the language.
Does this airport have the ramp crew could that hold flags and walk on the sides of the aircraft during push back?
Nope. Single man push
Siddy how you mean? The smaller planes are most of the time getting pushed by 1 person, after the push he takes an pin out with a small flag to it then he drives back behind the red line gets out of his vehicle and waves the flag, at that moment the pilot is allowed to ask for a taxi route
@@nohacks7672 My airport and a few other have a person on each side of the wings during push back and walk with it until its disconnected from the tractor like in this video th-cam.com/video/fvhmh_34ysQ/w-d-xo.html
Just a couple months ago I did this with another car at the local Walmart. I was so angry about the $165 I ended up having to pay for the repair of damage. As this collision will be more in the realm of $1.65 million I feel less angry now but do feel bad for the people who lost their jobs this day....
No one lost their job. That's what unions are for.
How can people learn from a minor mistake if they are fired? This was enough to ensure that they would be even more alert for the rest of their career.
Can you upload the Virgin Atlantic fire emergency where the plane diverted to Boston?
Working on it
@@VASAviation thanks
According to Flightradar24, the EasyJet flying that route was G-UZLD, flight delayed by 5 hours and the plane is already flying. OE-IVQ (the aircraft mentioned in the beginning) isnt a neo and isnt flying since the 8th of this month which is 1 day before this collision.
TK.flyer Take some time to process what you just wrote...
OE-IVQ flew last time on the 8th TO AMSTERDAM. The aircraft slept in Amsterdam. This happened the next day, aircraft grounded. The aircraft is STILL grounded at Amsterdam for repair. Happy?
Why are they actually speaking dutch instead of english? I mean, I get it klm dutch airline and it’s in ADAM but aren’t they supposed to always speak in English (ATC)? 👀
They can speak in their native language to native airlines (like KLM) but must be fluent in english if the flight deck does not speak the native language. But, I see where you going with this too. If they had spoke to the KLM flight in english the Easy Jet may have reminded the Tower that they just gave them clearance to push as well....
wizbang68 interesting and indeed. I’ve watched some ATC recordings where the deck (e.g. LH) and the person in Frankfurt still spoke English instead of German which made me think that English has to be used universally to prevent misunderstandings etc.
@@miischax Wasn't it just the greetings that were in Dutch at first? The push back clearance was in English which is the essential part so the Easy Jet could've picked it up but I totally get where you're coming from. I kinda get the feeling the Easy Jet pilot spoke Dutch too but I'm not sure.
Kate go yeah it seemed that he did by the mid for a short while (which also had me confused in this video lol)
Do they not have wing walkers during pushback? Thats SOP where I work.
Negative
Damn! This is what happens when you forget to turn on your collision lights
It’s like two cars backing out at the same time in the car park... or maybe not.
Isn't there supposed to be a Marshall to lead the ground tow?
Nope offcourse not, there are 60-70 planes landing and departing each hour and we only have 3-4 marshallers driving every shift the nightshift they do it with 2 guys
Why do GND controllers coordinate pushbacks, usually there are dedicated ramp controllers for that and GND only comes into play when joining a taxiway.
No, that's incorrect. As per ICAO, one of the responsibilities of the aerodrome controller is "assist in preventing collisions between aircraft on the apron."
I know ramp controllers exist in the US, but in most places the whole movement area belongs to the aerodrome controller.
OE-IVQ is a A320-214 so NOT a Neo. I flew with it to Prague 2 weeks ago. Aircraft involved wasn’t a Neo too.
Don't they have a guy walking the plane as it is being pushed? At Arlanda we have those.
I like how pilots arent angry on him
Oh they're probably quite angry on the inside, it's just that part of the job is to maintain your composure.
The pilots were probably relieved at the fact that this accident was 100% not their fault. It's a lot easier to have sense of humor when you know that somebody else is going the be the one who's in trouble.
And the pushback guys didn't see anything ? They don't see that there is also a traffic pushing back just in front of them ?
Were they being pushed back by different controllers?
Controllers don't push back. In case you mean instruction, the same controller gave both.
So does the responsibility for separation fall on the push back crews?
"push back approved" does not mean you MUST push back immediately, no delay. how can both pairs of wing-walkers be asleep at the same time?
There was just a crash at KPWK. Look into it.
This is what happens when Terry actually listens and puts it in reverse😂
Well at least KLM is experienced at airplanes collision on ground
Dark
yes many times issues a 777 pilot on hongkong taxi wrong way and wont listen tower 3 times while towr say hold possition
Aren’t pilots and ATC supposed to speak English at all times?
Supposed to, and actually do are 2 very different things, it's quite common here for pilots in the UK to have issues in France where the controllers and pilots are speaking french and you don't actually know what is going on around you.
Nope, local language is allowed as well.
In NL 'English' is used for operational instructions, but for info which is hardly relevant for other AC ....
not very required at this situation it hasn't something to do with other English planes bc he was only talking to the KLM
MrJaiimez French is an official icao language.
@@MrJaiimez oui, oui, baguette
Lol the title of this video should be "BOEING vs AIRBUS 'Best Selling Aircrafts'
So, will the ATC be given a number to call like when a pilot messes up?
Instead, the pilots could report it to their own companies, then the companies would fill an issue and send it to the airport's management..
Do these Airbus and 737s not have rear view cameras? Even my freaking Kia Sedona is equipped with one.
Luckily no body was hurt.
When the air traffic controllers stop by the grey area before coming to work.
Why didnt the tow drivers see the huge airplane in their way?
You can't really see directly behind the aircraft when driving the push tractor so thats why wing walkers should always be used.
Boeing vs Airbus?
Wonder what happened the controller?
I think someone should recommend for future aircraft design a wide-angle camera built into the fuselage to prevent something like this from happening that faces the rear of the aircraft., and I'm sure that maintenance can buff those scratches right out, it is amazing what proper application of 300 mile an hour tape and some Flex Seal can do.!.!
I close my comment with two words fly safe.
@@curtiswhyte3297 those situations when a wing walker is not available that is what I'm talking about
I don't see what the big deal was. Just exchange insurance info and leave! 😝
"His backup light was out!"
Did the EasyJet pilot speak Dutch at the end?
Yeah, he did. There's a lot of Dutchies at Easyjet with EHAM homebase.
He started off requesting pushback with a Dutch 'good morning' as well.
I was the one who recorded that footage. And I was listening to ground atc. It was the atc fault. Not the pilots
I wouldn't have blamed the pilots at all, tugs maybe, but mostly this was the controller's fault I think.
Ball of events. Easyjet didn't park at their usual spot and that created ATC to give precipitated pushback instructions.
You'd think one of the pushback crew would have seen the Easyjet was already being pushed back
The ground controller was obviously to blame....but what we're both tug drivers looking at? Madness, and imagine a fuel leak or fire. Some people need retrained and watched closely
Luckily there's no fuel in that stabilizer, but a collision with a bigger plane could have led to a leak
Where are the wing walkers? No excuse for this at all.
Which controller gets the bill for this one?
No one
Last day on the job for the controller!
Last day on the job for ground crew who are responsible to insure there are no obstacles or obstructions in the path of the aircraft they are pushing back.
@@Roadglide911 Maybe we'll get lucky and both the controller and the ground crew will need to find new jobs.
I can t understand or accept why KLM's ground crew started the pushback without watching where they were going !! Huge procedure mistake.
Can't look under a b737ng in a tug you are to high and the aircraft low. Nonetheless i havent seen tip walkers on schiphol for a while. Mistake is made by ground control
they are very bad in service and experience as well
Typically wing walkers includes the tail as well must be expensive. As are collisions
This is on the ground crew not the pilots
Ground crew for not double checking sure, but also the ATC Ground controller. After all the controller admitted that they made a mistake and thought that the two aircraft were at completely separate gates instead of back-to-back.
They should have parking sensors or cameras, I mean, most new cars have them these days.
are there no wing walkers in Amsterdam?
Bsp Productions Nope. Not required, so money saved on human resources.
George L that sucks. it could have been prevented had there been
Are you Dutch?
Negative
Roger that, I was wondering. Thanks!
No ground crew on push?
I wonder what happen next to the ATC. Hope He's okay after this incident.
Of course he's okay. He just had a career deviation and now sells cannabis in a coffee shop.
I've never heard the callsign "Alpine" being used for an easyJet flight before...
The Austrian Easy
All their aircraft based at airports outside the UK and Switzerland have the call sign Alpine. Brexit...
Well it happens on car parking lots around the world all the time. But with aircraft on airports with full coverage on every movement on ground this is really embarrassing.
Also, Usually damage to aircraft is significantly more expensive to repair then cars.
Insurance to the rescue
Stuff like that is why I look at the driver seats of surrounding cars on the way to my car, to see what cars are likely to be pulling out at the same time. A little care and attention goes a long way
The luckiest of the unfortunate is: the accident occurred on ground, not during flight in air.
Stay safe.
Ground control to Major Tom..............
Guess the ground crew had a talking to after this
I assume the controller knows why he is there.
Neil Martin there are no wingwalkers in The Netherlands (Or Europe actually, that really is an American thing) so it would be the tugdriver only. As for the ground controller. The Easyjet aircraft are normally parked at another pier so when the Easyjet requested push back I think the controller automatically checked the Hotel pier instead of the Delta pier hence the pushback clearance for both aircraft. Still the tugdrivers should have checked and stopped pushback when they saw another aircraft
Sander Olsthoorn
Heathrow use wing walkers , depends on handler.
Its not an airport rule.
Most wingwalkers I watch are not very effective.
To the people wondering what came of the ATC's job.. more than likely nothing, except a preach by his supervisor.
Making a humanly mistake is no grounds for a job termination in The Netherlands.
Unless this guy was an intern or on a contract for a predetermined amount of time (in which case he still wouldn't be able to be fired, just probably not getting another contract)
So yeah. Probably nothing at all.
yeah, I guess some guys job is more important than 300 odd passengers lives. To be honest I'd get rid of the ground crew involved and the ATC management who seem to be incompetent by allowing an environment where this can happen. I'm sorry but there should be zero tolerance on this, personally, i don't give a flying f about any of their jobs, they shouldn't have them if they can't do them.