Champs feels just like another international event, feels like a masters. Champs should feel special should be the biggest thing just a rerun with a different title and trophy
@@AUG_Glow my point is and I'm sure everyone feels the same, as this is the basis of the vid and complaints, it doesn't feel like a huge difference from a masters despite being different. We already know the prize pool and team number is different, it just doesn't feel different, the atmosphere, the setting, the culture isn't there. One thing could be to blame for this is Riots lack of marketing, their lack of source. If you take CODs CDL, and CS for example they are constantly promoting, constantly engaging, and constantly communicating with the community. For Ex. Riot's response to these types of issues is fining people tbagging or even shooting bodies, I know this is a bad example but it's a point to stand. It's almost like there isn't a story or stake for this year's champs. Last year eg was on a Cinderella run, played the villains, they lived up to the name and PRXs Jing final game. It just seems like theirs just so much more that went into last and the year before compared to now. Even the difference in the groups, hell the regionals for each region felt more ecstatic that the average game in champs. This i again blame riot for, the production the planning, all poor.
I think the main issue was playing in the same studio as pacific matches for 2 weeks straight. As a pacific enjoyer, the champs games just felt like a regular pacific match. all they did was stuck a champions logo in the middle of the stage and called it a day. Atleast last years champs they had a completely different stage in the Shrine Auditorium which had 7k capacity. It feels like they went full budget mode this year
True, seeing Pacific stage since stage 1 and now champs is also happening on the same stage it doesn't feel special anymore, it's like im actually watching Pacific matches
Hear me out. Audience microphones. Not like per person, but boom mic's a little bit above them, tune the volume down and bam. The games I remember being the most hype is the screaming in the background as Pansy and Hypoch are narrating a tense moment etc.
Another thing josh didn’t mention about CS is that events like cologne and Katowice happen in the same city and venue every year, for like a decade. So the culture in those places especially is absolutely insane, but also there is just generally more of a culture of attending because of more tournaments and more arena days.
When did they start going to cologne every year? Because we cannot forget that Valorant esports is not around for that long and we started our esports during the pandemic aswell.
honestly even last year for semifinals tickets were still available day of and half the stadium was empty. it was super surprising and kinda sad - we could sit anywhere in the kia forum, really.
Respectfully but that could be attributed to the location being on the west coast. I think Dallas or Tampa or St. Louis or DC might’ve been better. Because these events cater to people from across the globe and from that perspective LA is not centralized. And I’d make the argument that Florida tourism has a farther reach than LA. Toronto will absolutely dunk on champs LA. Purely because of where it is.
it is unfair to compare it to CS actually when they always held tournaments in Europe only. CS was so big in EU. Europe is much easier to travel because they have trains and better public transportation. You can go anywhere in EUROPE via Train. Even a NAVI fan from Ukraine can go easily to Cologne Germany by Train ($60-$100) (1,743.1 km) Public transportation is lacking in America. Very car centric especially Los Angeles. Plus You can't fill up the stadium when LOCALS care more about League and Pubg in Korea.
I laterally had a smile on my face when you said that the local broadcast is not on English. I flew to Masters Madrid and it sucked so much not being able to understand the casting, but even more was not to experience the casting of casters I know and love.
please riot have these events in Berlin or Germany in general, we dont fucking care if you speak english. most german audiences for esport prolly prefer english lmao. I went to tons of CS events in germany and they always were english in the arena, because OF FUCKING COURSE its in englisch
@@TheTH-camUser69 the problem is bro valorant still has problem of picking good place to host from europe yes its gonna fill but valo does whole world tour without looking at the player base locations so most of the time location does not have player base its like going to secluded island without proper advertisement.
this valorant year has felt a lot less hype honestly. maybe it has to do with me not having a team im diehard for but still, me going from watching most regions games/vods to nearly none due to lack of interest is insane
Exactly Tokyo and los Angeles was insane bro... The hype and peak fnatic, prx and eg were insane we have nrg being shifted on by blg... Kang Kang on operator Mam optic vs loud, sen vs Fnc in Iceland... Fpx vs prx... Gambit days, Valorant is not same anymore....
I don't get this sentiment, maybe its because I started watching Val esports starting from the beginning of 2023/end of 2022. This current season has been my most watched season.
@@jayeshkog i think a lot of western people are saying that due to back to back tourneys being in china and korea . masters tokyo also had really early starting time compared to shanghai and seoul so its was ok for american viewers
@@Pontiff03VCT Champions 23 was more "final event" for me than Seoul cuz in Hungary those matches started 0:00 and not at 9 am. Midnight games are just more "shiny" for me.
I think there is a core disconnect between valorant and vct valorants only real major pull is competitive play there’s still a large casual player base but it feels like maybe 5% of the players I come across actually care about VCT. There simply isn’t enough reward, hype, stakes, or content in the game for majority of players to care about pro play I think pickems was a step in the right direction, but we need more drops, more content, actual team skins not just a copy paste classic skin with different colors but full designed vandals or phantoms designed by the teams themselves with unique kill banners and finishers to show off in game and really make people think “wow that skin is awesome maybe I’ll check that team out” or at bare minimum it gets more of the entire player base talking about it.
As for the double elim/single elim masters and champions should be double elim but I think a lock in style tournament at the beginning of the season (single elimination) so every team gets a starting interaction and a starting mark for the VCT year and then 2 more mid season let’s call them “Rush tournaments” or something like that where it’s only the top team from each region (making mid season placement more important) 2 day tournaments still double elim but day 1 will be 4 games starting 2 and the next winners and losers brackets (shorter time between matches/maps/timeouts/halftime) really embracing the “rush” and pressure then the next day will be the lower final and grand final back to back which makes winning top more important because you don’t have to play 2 games in a row that day. In general crazy idea but it sounds like a really cool quick mid season hype event to me that establishes the current “best team in the world” at that point
Spot on assessment, wouldn’t hurt rito at all to have the champs bundle be the reward for getting 100% Pickems, this would incentivise people to care more
I feel like it would be really great if the broadcasts themselves advertised going in person. Some people might not even be aware there are still tickets and would want to go! They should add links to buying tickets in the broadcast, trailers about the venues, and while the event is on show the special merch drops or in game items for attending to get people excited for the next one. The more integration the broadcast has with the venues and people, the more people will want to go.
i went to 2 days of Champs in LA last year at the Shrine, and it was hype af. it was also the last elimination game for each group over 2 days, so that might have been a factor.
the desk +segments also felt like any other event. Use wider shots, do new things, make it feel like the end of the year. do a full hour preshow, send bren GB and/or Babybay out into the audience(not the same interviews with players family. less formal.), fire t-shirts at people. less pre-recorded player talks, more live interaction. bring in performers on cirque-de-sole swings and an elephant or two. someone who breathes fire. a full cosplay competition. valorant themed faire games. audience doing live aim-labs on the big screen. anythign really thats different from the same desk +segments we've seen all year. same formula, same result.
i'm really glad you brought up the language issue. i went to madrid and, while it was fantastic and probably the best energy i've had watching a val match, i don't particularly care to go to another event because of the language issue. the feel was still great and the casters still added a lot to the experience, but not knowing who they were on understanding what they were saying was tough. also getting around the arena was more difficult because not many staff there spoke english, which is a me issue, and i'm glad the person i was with spoke spanish, but it still contributed. i would adore going to another event if it was more english-accomnodating, so i'm really happy you brought that up.
I think events like Tarik’s hanging out in NY with Tarik and co would help a lot in getting fans to be physically there. And maybe also the teams, or at least some pro players having different meet and greets or something like that at the arena, like make it about a bit more than just the matches. Also, very very strange that the valo year end in August. We need more international events.
As a CS fan, it is important to note that CS has multiple TOs that run events, like Blast and ESL and PGL and all that. That's one of the reasons why they're able to run so many tournaments.
I haven't seen this noted, but the Riot Games Arena in Korea used to have headphones that broadcast the English casters to the English speakers who came in to watch the LCK (the Korean League of legends circuit), so it may be something possible for future events if it's raised to the right people. Iirc the headphones were in limited quantity and you needed to make sure they knew ahead of time, but yeah.
They did this for Pacific Kickoff, can't say the same for this Champs yet as I'm going only for Grand Finals but it's definitely something they've done before
I love both cs and valorant however I feel the main difference when it comes to lans is that cs developed their community organically, from 1.6 days they had small lans that only very passionate fans attended which slowly over time grew and became the massive spectacles we see today, whereas valorant kinda just thrusted themselves into the massive lan scene without letting the game breath and allowing the community to develop (which tbf valorant is a hard comparison as it became massive very fast). Another factor is that cs, because it’s been around so long as a much more varied audience age wise as there’s people who’ve been around since 1.6 and younger people who may have just started playing recently. Lastly I think that because like 80% of tournaments in cs are held in mainland Europe they probably draw a lot of the same people every event whereas valorant is constantly shifting around the world they’re always testing different audiences which isn’t a bad thing but probably contributes to the lack of crowd familiarity and such
The most important thing you said in my eyes is the language in the arena. I’m not willing to travel and spend money on hotel, flight tickets, match tickets, and food only to attend something in a language I do not understand.
yeah cs glazers don't understand this. 1.Europe is much easier to travel. You can go anywhere in EUROPE via Train. Train is vastly more comfortable than a airplane. Even a NAVI fan from Ukraine can go easily to Cologne Germany by Train ($60-$100) (1,743.1 km) and go home after the tournament without the need of hotel and airport procedures. 2. Flying to korea is not cheap and convenient. EU train connects 33 countries vs 1 country(S.korea). Germany(84 mil) alone has more population than South Korea(54 mil).
What they need is Masters Manila Philippines. Hype gamers and majority of the young population are young gamers. We've seen DOTA tournament and it was recognized as one of the best place to host a tournament.
we've seen dota pros sing the praises of the manila major so why not? the only PH team at the manila major was out first yet the crowd was still loud and active
they just announced Masters Bangkok for next February, i suppose that's close enough but having an event in the Philippines would probably be pretty cool
I was in Madrid and it was so sad to not get any casting in English. I understand as to why but I ended up rewatching the matches afterwords just to have the casting lmao. Somehow it felt more disconnected to the community than actually watching at home...
Maybe I am too NA pilled but to me fans not being at sen v fnc but going to others is inherently a marketing issue because I can't see a world where people wouldn't want to watch that match
Yeah I’m surprised that match wasn’t more popular, particularly because Fnatic/Boaster tend to get a lot of support abroad when they travel. And I’m not sure but I think you have to book tickets for the matches way in advance anyway, before you even know the matchup
@@magmoz565 i am not surprised really, if you think about it, the biggest apac teams (PRX and GenG) got knocked out of groups, DRX was the last hope of the pacific and considering the event it held in korea, there is a lot more emotional attachment for DRX to perform and win champs. people simply didn't attend sen v fnatic bc the stakes were a lot higher for DRX in korea.
@@wrekt2192i mean sure, go for the DRX one, they’re korean. But if you’re paying for the day anyway, why not go a bit earlier and watch the absolute banger of sen v fnc as well?
i feel like there hasn't been a valorant LAN yet that has hit the mark energy and hype wise. ik ppl gonna get mad but if u watch even the most recent cs2 IEM cologne event, its INSANE compared to this current val tourny.
@@professorshrimp5187 True the crowd was legit insane despite all the controversies. Even FNS, Sam said lock in atmosphere was genuinely unmatched even tho they lost against loud, it’s their fav moment.
Yeah I agree. The cs lan environment is just different. But even when you compare valorant to smaller esports like rocket league, COD, and R6, even those esports have far better lan environments than valorant
The home crowd is truly a boon to hype, look at eleague Boston 2018. Then look at champs 23. Such a good underdog moment for both events but one is so clearly more mesmerizing than the other. I think valorant fans are too nice tbh.
A small idea of mine would be that people who attend the tournaments would rack up 1%-5% discounts per match or game for the merch they want to buy, and then open the shops before the arena matches begin. Just expanding on what you said that fans' experience need to be improved and need more incentive to attend games other than seeing their favorite teams play. Speaking of merchandise, WHY are they not making more of them? They KNOW they always sell out in a day, and you don't get notifications about them becoming available to buy. I literally was doing something important and then I see a social media post the next day that it's sold out. Why are we batting an eye on this?
@@bombie7757 nah, if you are new to the esports scene and was not involved to the backend you would think that. But we have a lotttt of organizers now and especially we have GAB and PeSO.
@yugengamingph Manila Major was hype, but there were a lot of nightmare issues from the TOs and Players. (I think a recent disaster event was the SEA Games as well). I'm not against the idea of PH getting an event but given our track record, it's hard to turn a blind eye on certain issues
Never watched these big counter strike events, but the energy looks awesome! Maybe that activation mentioned at the end can be tested in the regional games by doing those things like allowing more signs, drums, trumpets, it'd be so cool!
only halfway through but the comment about language is huge. i was privileged enough to attend masters madrid when im from LA , and speak only english. i wouldn’t expect it to BE in english , and its on me for not knowing a 2nd language , but man having my earbuds in and trying to listen to the vct americas broadcast in english didn’t cut it. i would love to attend champs paris as well in 2025 , but my bum ass doesn’t speak french either and so that’s a concern. some way for it to be broadcast loudest in the native language , but easier access to other languages in person would be huge.
I love these commentary videos out of you sideshow, please keep making them as bringing discourse and challenging ideas is important to find the best product for all parties
The venue for the last few days of pacific stage 2 was really good, a 3 tiered system with that arena for the first 5 days of playoffs would have been really cool.
Just need more events man. Youre right about making it a common thing to go to events. I think the closest one has been LA for me, and im in Canada. Id love to go but theres not enough events to go to
yeah its really weird, valorant has like 3 events every year while cs players are travelling 200+ days every years to attend 10s of events. Sure not all are in big IEM cologne 18k+ arenas, but still atleast we get to watch more pro matches. i swear whenever i see a pro clips compilation from cs 90% are from these tournaments while in valo most are from pros streaming. most cs pros dont even have the time to stream while valo pros feel like streaming is their main job while playing in tournaments is secondary
Spreading Champs out over such a long period is also rough. It's lasting the WHOLE month of August basically....so even if you GET a HYPE match....its tough to carry over if the next match is 5 days away multiple times.
I think a potential piece of this that’s important too from the business perspective, is how Riot wants to be able to sell the event further to venues by being able to show good sell through on ticket sales. By saying “we sold out our Grand finals at the Mercedes Benz arena in Shanghai in 33 seconds” is a high value marketing asset when looking for venue partnerships for future tournaments. And this may be more of what’s to be read between the lines in Leo’s statement, more than anything else. I think Riot is concerned with scaling these events in a healthy way, so that they’re able to build lasting relationships with venues, like CS has been able to. And from a venue perspective I can imagine why limiting sales and “creating a demand shortage” is a viable option to facilitate long term growth in the esports scene and why it maybe even encourage in talks with Riot with regards to how venues are advising to build a relationship with the Valorant audience to build traditions and a culture around attending events. The game has absolutely come a long why since Reykjavik 2020, where there was no audience. I am excited to see where things go and i anticipate that as long as Riot continues to see a return on their conservative approach to ticket sales and an increase in, in-person attendance rise they will steadily grow the offering. And someday we may see our trumpeter’s sound off in the stands. Go Valorant!
I absolutely agree with the language in the stadium being an issue of some level, I was actually planning on going to Istanbul until I learned that it would be broadcast in Turkish in the stadium.
I think what he meant by "appetite but no demand" is that at its peak (finals), people will eat it up. but if it's always, constantly there, the demand will peter out. Appetite is there because there's hunger... if arena was always available even for small matches, no hunger = no appetite = no demand.
It feels like this year you had SO MANY teams looking like serious contenders to win champs and or pull some crazy upsets, and the competition is extremely high compared to other years where it was just a couple teams that were potential winners, and yet still the feeling of intensity and high stakes competition isnt fully there.. I don't really know if it was how they had the crowd mic set up or what was it, but up until this point the crowd just give the same vibe as masters group stage maybe? And it's sort of understandable when your 2 local teams, one of which was considered to make it at least to top 3, are out of the tournament.. Hopefully this last part of the tournament with a bigger arena will turn things around
Could also be cool to have rewards in-game for attending in person events. Like a unique player card or title or something. That might motivate some die hard fans more to travel for events.
To answer your question about LoL, they tend to host each stage of the tournament in a different venue progressively going up in size. So Play-In tends to be in a small studio, group stage in a medium-size theater, quarterfinals in a small arena, and semifinals and finals generally in large arenas.
They should hold regional finals in arenas as well, not in the studio. They would easily sell tickets and it would give more the opportunity to see it live.
They should have the majority of events in Europe or NA. A more cosmopolitan crowd means most teams will have a good amount of fans showing up for games. Also the studio games must suck for the players as well. Imagine traveling to Korea for Champs at the atmosphere feeling like a domestic league game
Crowds in Tokyo & Shanghai were very much there. It is more to do with Seoul imo like even for Pacific games the interest was very low. They can move the headquarters from Seoul to Tokyo and try to capitalise on the interest of Japanese ppl towards valorant both domestically in terms of Pacific and hosting something like masters/champions. The don't even use same facilities like how VCT Americas and LCS does.
The thing with China is Shanghai is 3x the population of Seoul and that shows in demand too. Also Seoul has large esports events frequently, so the audience may have less scarcity demand. But also that could mean the base find events a more normal event to plan for. Idk
I think part of the feel this year being lackluster is because last year had a lot more compelling storylines play out (Can fnc 3peat, EG underdog story, PRX looking their best and could get Pacific's first). Looking at last years playoffs, round 1 had fnc vs loud which was a grand finals rematch from lock in and there was China vs Boostio. This year was regional matchups, so it wasn't as hype. Last year's top 4 felt like the teams that made it there proved that they were among the best 4 teams in the world, with each of the teams placing at least top 3 at a previous event that year. This year each of the top teams left have looked shaky at some point this tournament. This can create the idea that maybe if the groups or playoff seeding were different, some of these teams might not be here.
For me, the hype about CS tournaments is that when we get to the arena you know the game is on and everything is on the line, because they have been playing from the backstage without a crowd. In Valorant, every game is broadcasted, every game has crowd (sometimes minimal - which I think is a bad thing, if there are less games with crowd, people would show up even for shittier games), it just seems like everything is the same.. I don't know if I'm watching the quarter-finals, or if I'm watching the first game in group stage.
9:06 I 100% agree. My family and I attended the 2011 Kalachakra that was being held in Washington D.C with a capactiy of 20,000 ppl and each individual was handed a small audio device with live translations of speakers in over 10 different languages. This is something Riot can definitely implement and help improve turnout for international fans.
I do miss the CS style of tourneys, while it was overkill at one point during CSGO it's hard to keep track of when the teams I like play in Val. It feels very few and far between, and it's hard to watch during the week nights. I liked knowing there was a CS tourney I could watch all weekend very often.
personally aswell i feel like the kickoff/stage events could be held in different places in the US, ive wanted to watch them live but i cant go all the way to Cali every single event, like there are so many places it could expand too imo.
Meanwhile, for this years LoL Worlds, it's going to be in the pretty small EU Riot Games Arena for both play-ins and the whole swiss stage. There's only 210 seats in that arena.
Kang Kang Doesn't Stand-up, Doesn't Post, Doesn't Cry Bengyfishy doesn’t talk shit anymore Demon1 is not shutting people up Jing is not going to the military C0M's flank is much more predictable now FNC is not making another 11-3 comeback on a final There are not Cinderella run like EG from ash to Champion this year Just not enough trash talking from players, way to plain, not enough storyline. I think this is why the hype is not there😢
I’m very impressed and proud of Riot for allowing you to put out content like this during the middle of a major tournament that you’re actively broadcasting in. This was well thought out analysis and criticism, and I love the comparisons to CS. Riot needs to loosen up on the reigns and liberate the game for the esports scene so it can be proliferated with many high quality tournaments like CS.
demand for a grand finals /= demand for the rest of the days. similar to something like the US open in that sense-- they use a small arena because that way it would fill out most days instead of picking the much larger arena they could get for grand finals demand
I know we don't have any competetive teams, but god I would love to see a Valorant event in Australia. It's so expensive to go anywhere to see an esports event, which is probably why we haven't had one because it would be expensive for people to come here... but at this rate i may never see something IRL
would be cool to have in game drops only for in person and maybe goodie bags if they dont already for finals. and the audio thing with diff languages. maybe a lottery with the chance to win champs skin and u get a ticket every time u sign in and attend a match and they could do the lottery at the stage on finals,m would be pretty hype
They've done those headsets before for Pacific 2023 when I went! I don't know if they continued it though. They gave a QR code that led us to the audio of the English broadcast Edit: The meme at 21:46 doesn't feel fair when that's typically how a Japanese crowd behaves.
it just doesnt feel like there is much on the line for anyone besides the players. you dont see the crowd, there are insane amount of drx and geng fans and yet we didnt see a single reaction when they are eliminated. it just feels like watching sweaty ranked matches. i barely heard any crowd cheers. just dissapointment. masters tokyo far surpases this crap.
I totally agree with the statement you made at the end where in that meme they shouldn't just let people use what they sell in a match but let them bring their own thing like you mentioned trumpets or flags ect. they already rob us from the skins they dont need to sell inflatable Sticks to hit when your team wins a round
It is always so easy to compare it to CS but they really are two different games and esports. One is around for over 20 years already, huge sponsors from betting sites, different format, different crowd. We should take the goods and try to apply it to our system, but should never forget that it is still so new and STILL gains massive attention across the world with China and Pacific not only competing at top level but also selling out tournaments. Kids go with their parents and friends to watch Valorant games (my parents at least wouldn't have let me go to IEM Cologne or even go with me)
I think valorant does make it tough and layouts at arena . I am a die hard Val fan and for lock in went to São Paulo but the arena was so hot. Like some of these arenas they chose can’t even handle these amount of crowds. It was blazing during grand finals at lock in I think I lost a lb just watching in the heat . Also there is no synergy for most of the other teams other than home country team games. They feature so few shots of the crowd . It just feels dead because valorant needs to make it feel more alive in arena . Like sports events have crowd interactions or completions like we saw in vct americas and other vcts at half time . I want to see more of the die hard fans featured especially if they have traveled from different countries it’s so cool.
Personally I’ve been invested in esports since the Apex days of Overwatch in 2016-2017 but still haven’t been able to go to an event which is pretty much perfectly summed up by around 21:00 min. I think having a local national scene would also be nice (not necessarily realistic but would help) because say if the last stint of tier 3 national stuff was done in a dinky little 100 seater place it would then form a community which could then decide to go to said events together, share an air b n b ect. Like I said though, I really don’t see this idea being nearly as feasible.
I think making it through groups should guarantee youre appearance before youre eliminated. So not the first games of playoffs but the 2nd would be in the arena from there on. I think thats the best way to do it, imagine being Trace and you make it through groups but yet you were not able to play infront of thousands of fans.
i havent seen anyone say this yet. Sideshow's idea of giving the live fans headsets to listen to the broadcast in their own language. . this is so genius.. And not because it will increase the appetite for live viewership, but because people with headphones on . . and especially ones with something playing through them . . are LOUDER. think about how much more noise would be made my 10 thousand deaf people instead of the people who can hear their own voice
about broadcasting on the local language for ppl inside of the event, i think theres legislation that enforces that on most countries no? still the idea of giving headsets so ppl can hear the broadcast on a different language is definitely something they should look into doing
Honestly i like the feel of only the top 4 in the arena, feels like something greater than just playoffs or making champs to strive for. Other than that, i think all the hype of just "making champs" took away from the actual event, and having it be so long took away a lot of incentive from locals to go every day. CS had crowds in their Major group stage for a very short time, and it gave matches a much better feel. At the very least Riot can raise the crowd mics to pick up more energy from the big plays during the theater stage, but for the most part, while we hope and maybe work towards perfection, we shouldn't expect perfection from a still-growing esport.
As a purely viewer pov, It feels like I'm watching a smaller event than it actually is. Almost as if I'm watching a regional event, Nobody seems to care its like they are setup in a theatre like room. Especially after the CS:GO event that just happened this past weekend.
Having at least one or two boom mics above the audience’s heads would instantly remedy the issue of hype. As for the issue of people buying a day’s ticket and not attending all of the matches, I wonder if this could be remedied by selling half the tickets as “team passes” instead (at least for the group stage). In the group stage, every team is guaranteed to play at least 2 games, and will play at most 3 to lock in their spot for playoffs. Perhaps “team passes” could be sold to audience members who only really want to watch one team across the weekend? It could also potentially make up for the loss of crowd members who only stick around for the first match or only join in for the second match. It would only really work for group stage, but I think it’d alleviate the issue of filling out arenas for group stages at the very least. Day passes for the Valorant diehards, team passes for the team-specific diehards.
It doesn’t help that the online community seems to hate on the in person crowds so much. Best examples off the top of my head are the Brasilian games and the americas final with lev and g2. Like, do you want to hear the crowd or not?
It was more hype last year than this year. Especially with Champions 2023 since that was the very first champions with a crowd. Loved that EG won the title and that got me super hyped.
Madrid was the most hype event . Plus this year had a way better viewership by a longshot. The crowd may not be energetic for Champs. But Madrid the crowd was going crazy. Plus imo better storylines.
Appetite could be there but only for certain games, so technically people still eat valorant up but there are conditions that make renting out stadiums for conditional hunger seem pointless
Champs feels just like another international event, feels like a masters. Champs should feel special should be the biggest thing just a rerun with a different title and trophy
Champs has 16 teams instead of standard 12, and it’s a much bigger prize pool
It is the biggest thing
@@AUG_Glowyeah but were talkint abt the arena and the vibes
@@abc-jl3sg you may be but not the comment I replied to
@@AUG_Glow my point is and I'm sure everyone feels the same, as this is the basis of the vid and complaints, it doesn't feel like a huge difference from a masters despite being different. We already know the prize pool and team number is different, it just doesn't feel different, the atmosphere, the setting, the culture isn't there. One thing could be to blame for this is Riots lack of marketing, their lack of source. If you take CODs CDL, and CS for example they are constantly promoting, constantly engaging, and constantly communicating with the community. For Ex. Riot's response to these types of issues is fining people tbagging or even shooting bodies, I know this is a bad example but it's a point to stand. It's almost like there isn't a story or stake for this year's champs. Last year eg was on a Cinderella run, played the villains, they lived up to the name and PRXs Jing final game. It just seems like theirs just so much more that went into last and the year before compared to now. Even the difference in the groups, hell the regionals for each region felt more ecstatic that the average game in champs. This i again blame riot for, the production the planning, all poor.
@@j-s-m ok
I think the main issue was playing in the same studio as pacific matches for 2 weeks straight. As a pacific enjoyer, the champs games just felt like a regular pacific match. all they did was stuck a champions logo in the middle of the stage and called it a day. Atleast last years champs they had a completely different stage in the Shrine Auditorium which had 7k capacity. It feels like they went full budget mode this year
the worse thing is the pacific walkout is trash no hype no nothing
True, seeing Pacific stage since stage 1 and now champs is also happening on the same stage it doesn't feel special anymore, it's like im actually watching Pacific matches
Shaving the mustache into two distinct bits is a bold choice
A bald choice 💀
Orange shirt too ? Bro out here soft cosplaying the Lorax
@@infinite1483 Dear god actual lorax
better than one distinct bit down the middle
everyday he is closer to finding a blue hedgehog
Hear me out. Audience microphones. Not like per person, but boom mic's a little bit above them, tune the volume down and bam. The games I remember being the most hype is the screaming in the background as Pansy and Hypoch are narrating a tense moment etc.
Fnc vs loud lock in
i agree the mic on 2022 champs were really good
It also could lead to players getting cues from the crowds more often. Mic directly piped into the broadcast feed is something I can support
@@engo11 remembering the crowd in this match gave be goose bumps
Yes I mean it's really not that hard
off topic but why does Sideshow always look like a mad scientist who's gonna replace my arms with sausage rolls?
it's all that mustache division💀
Sideshow is absolutely going to steal the Chaos Emeralds
Looking like Dr robotnik
Another thing josh didn’t mention about CS is that events like cologne and Katowice happen in the same city and venue every year, for like a decade. So the culture in those places especially is absolutely insane, but also there is just generally more of a culture of attending because of more tournaments and more arena days.
Bro read my take I feel you 100%
When did they start going to cologne every year? Because we cannot forget that Valorant esports is not around for that long and we started our esports during the pandemic aswell.
@@herminator95862015 for lanxess arena in cologne, 2014 for spodek in katowice
@@herminator9586read the comment again
@@herminator9586 FIrst Cologne was 2014
honestly even last year for semifinals tickets were still available day of and half the stadium was empty. it was super surprising and kinda sad - we could sit anywhere in the kia forum, really.
Thats weird grand finals were definitely packed tho, i took time to buy my tickets but it was a crazy atmosphere
Respectfully but that could be attributed to the location being on the west coast. I think Dallas or Tampa or St. Louis or DC might’ve been better. Because these events cater to people from across the globe and from that perspective LA is not centralized. And I’d make the argument that Florida tourism has a farther reach than LA. Toronto will absolutely dunk on champs LA. Purely because of where it is.
it is unfair to compare it to CS actually when they always held tournaments in Europe only.
CS was so big in EU.
Europe is much easier to travel because they have trains and better public transportation.
You can go anywhere in EUROPE via Train.
Even a NAVI fan from Ukraine can go easily to Cologne Germany by Train ($60-$100) (1,743.1 km)
Public transportation is lacking in America. Very car centric especially Los Angeles.
Plus You can't fill up the stadium when LOCALS care more about League and Pubg in Korea.
EG vs PRX had a packed stadium as far as I remember. Maybe people left after the upper finals since there won't be as many FNC and LOUD fans?
@@Katniss0000then put you tournament in a country that gives a shit? Big L for rito
My goat Sideshow
I've barely watched or even followed Champs this year, but that is more a product of the broadcast starting at 4am more time than anything else.
I laterally had a smile on my face when you said that the local broadcast is not on English.
I flew to Masters Madrid and it sucked so much not being able to understand the casting, but even more was not to experience the casting of casters I know and love.
please riot have these events in Berlin or Germany in general, we dont fucking care if you speak english. most german audiences for esport prolly prefer english lmao. I went to tons of CS events in germany and they always were english in the arena, because OF FUCKING COURSE its in englisch
@@TheTH-camUser69 the problem is bro valorant still has problem of picking good place to host from europe yes its gonna fill but valo does whole world tour without looking at the player base locations so most of the time location does not have player base its like going to secluded island without proper advertisement.
This Champs feels like normal pacific games with champs theme. Riot fumbled hard
this valorant year has felt a lot less hype honestly. maybe it has to do with me not having a team im diehard for but still, me going from watching most regions games/vods to nearly none due to lack of interest is insane
Exactly Tokyo and los Angeles was insane bro... The hype and peak fnatic, prx and eg were insane we have nrg being shifted on by blg... Kang Kang on operator
Mam optic vs loud, sen vs Fnc in Iceland... Fpx vs prx... Gambit days, Valorant is not same anymore....
I don't get this sentiment, maybe its because I started watching Val esports starting from the beginning of 2023/end of 2022. This current season has been my most watched season.
@@jayeshkog i think a lot of western people are saying that due to back to back tourneys being in china and korea . masters tokyo also had really early starting time compared to shanghai and seoul so its was ok for american viewers
very subjective imo
@@Pontiff03VCT Champions 23 was more "final event" for me than Seoul cuz in Hungary those matches started 0:00 and not at 9 am.
Midnight games are just more "shiny" for me.
I think there is a core disconnect between valorant and vct valorants only real major pull is competitive play there’s still a large casual player base but it feels like maybe 5% of the players I come across actually care about VCT. There simply isn’t enough reward, hype, stakes, or content in the game for majority of players to care about pro play I think pickems was a step in the right direction, but we need more drops, more content, actual team skins not just a copy paste classic skin with different colors but full designed vandals or phantoms designed by the teams themselves with unique kill banners and finishers to show off in game and really make people think “wow that skin is awesome maybe I’ll check that team out” or at bare minimum it gets more of the entire player base talking about it.
As for the double elim/single elim masters and champions should be double elim but I think a lock in style tournament at the beginning of the season (single elimination) so every team gets a starting interaction and a starting mark for the VCT year and then 2 more mid season let’s call them “Rush tournaments” or something like that where it’s only the top team from each region (making mid season placement more important) 2 day tournaments still double elim but day 1 will be 4 games starting 2 and the next winners and losers brackets (shorter time between matches/maps/timeouts/halftime) really embracing the “rush” and pressure then the next day will be the lower final and grand final back to back which makes winning top more important because you don’t have to play 2 games in a row that day. In general crazy idea but it sounds like a really cool quick mid season hype event to me that establishes the current “best team in the world” at that point
Spot on assessment, wouldn’t hurt rito at all to have the champs bundle be the reward for getting 100% Pickems, this would incentivise people to care more
I feel like it would be really great if the broadcasts themselves advertised going in person. Some people might not even be aware there are still tickets and would want to go! They should add links to buying tickets in the broadcast, trailers about the venues, and while the event is on show the special merch drops or in game items for attending to get people excited for the next one. The more integration the broadcast has with the venues and people, the more people will want to go.
i went to 2 days of Champs in LA last year at the Shrine, and it was hype af. it was also the last elimination game for each group over 2 days, so that might have been a factor.
the desk +segments also felt like any other event. Use wider shots, do new things, make it feel like the end of the year. do a full hour preshow, send bren GB and/or Babybay out into the audience(not the same interviews with players family. less formal.), fire t-shirts at people. less pre-recorded player talks, more live interaction. bring in performers on cirque-de-sole swings and an elephant or two. someone who breathes fire. a full cosplay competition. valorant themed faire games. audience doing live aim-labs on the big screen.
anythign really thats different from the same desk +segments we've seen all year. same formula, same result.
Bring the audience closer to the stage without the need to put fence. Makes thrm compete facing the crowd rather than themselves
CS flew fl0m out to costream and had him fire some t shirts... Just saying
i'm really glad you brought up the language issue. i went to madrid and, while it was fantastic and probably the best energy i've had watching a val match, i don't particularly care to go to another event because of the language issue. the feel was still great and the casters still added a lot to the experience, but not knowing who they were on understanding what they were saying was tough. also getting around the arena was more difficult because not many staff there spoke english, which is a me issue, and i'm glad the person i was with spoke spanish, but it still contributed. i would adore going to another event if it was more english-accomnodating, so i'm really happy you brought that up.
I think events like Tarik’s hanging out in NY with Tarik and co would help a lot in getting fans to be physically there. And maybe also the teams, or at least some pro players having different meet and greets or something like that at the arena, like make it about a bit more than just the matches. Also, very very strange that the valo year end in August. We need more international events.
As a CS fan, it is important to note that CS has multiple TOs that run events, like Blast and ESL and PGL and all that. That's one of the reasons why they're able to run so many tournaments.
People often travel abroad just for these events, it would make sense to enjoy 3, 4 days in a big arena, since you are travelling there regardless.
I haven't seen this noted, but the Riot Games Arena in Korea used to have headphones that broadcast the English casters to the English speakers who came in to watch the LCK (the Korean League of legends circuit), so it may be something possible for future events if it's raised to the right people. Iirc the headphones were in limited quantity and you needed to make sure they knew ahead of time, but yeah.
They did this for Pacific Kickoff, can't say the same for this Champs yet as I'm going only for Grand Finals but it's definitely something they've done before
I love both cs and valorant however I feel the main difference when it comes to lans is that cs developed their community organically, from 1.6 days they had small lans that only very passionate fans attended which slowly over time grew and became the massive spectacles we see today, whereas valorant kinda just thrusted themselves into the massive lan scene without letting the game breath and allowing the community to develop (which tbf valorant is a hard comparison as it became massive very fast). Another factor is that cs, because it’s been around so long as a much more varied audience age wise as there’s people who’ve been around since 1.6 and younger people who may have just started playing recently. Lastly I think that because like 80% of tournaments in cs are held in mainland Europe they probably draw a lot of the same people every event whereas valorant is constantly shifting around the world they’re always testing different audiences which isn’t a bad thing but probably contributes to the lack of crowd familiarity and such
Just finished the video and you touched on basically everything I said hahahaha
this is such a good take
I agree. Also the amount of significant changes to the game every 3 months kinda tires you out
The most important thing you said in my eyes is the language in the arena. I’m not willing to travel and spend money on hotel, flight tickets, match tickets, and food only to attend something in a language I do not understand.
yeah cs glazers don't understand this.
1.Europe is much easier to travel. You can go anywhere in EUROPE via Train. Train is vastly more comfortable than a airplane.
Even a NAVI fan from Ukraine can go easily to Cologne Germany by Train ($60-$100) (1,743.1 km) and
go home after the tournament without the need of hotel and airport procedures.
2. Flying to korea is not cheap and convenient.
EU train connects 33 countries vs 1 country(S.korea). Germany(84 mil) alone has more population than South Korea(54 mil).
What they need is Masters Manila Philippines. Hype gamers and majority of the young population are young gamers. We've seen DOTA tournament and it was recognized as one of the best place to host a tournament.
FR
facts bro
we've seen dota pros sing the praises of the manila major so why not? the only PH team at the manila major was out first yet the crowd was still loud and active
@@cryro Exactly, + Filipinos are both haters and lovers at the same time, it'll definitely a much less bias crowd.
they just announced Masters Bangkok for next February, i suppose that's close enough but having an event in the Philippines would probably be pretty cool
I was in Madrid and it was so sad to not get any casting in English. I understand as to why but I ended up rewatching the matches afterwords just to have the casting lmao. Somehow it felt more disconnected to the community than actually watching at home...
Maybe I am too NA pilled but to me fans not being at sen v fnc but going to others is inherently a marketing issue because I can't see a world where people wouldn't want to watch that match
Yeah I’m surprised that match wasn’t more popular, particularly because Fnatic/Boaster tend to get a lot of support abroad when they travel. And I’m not sure but I think you have to book tickets for the matches way in advance anyway, before you even know the matchup
@@magmoz565 i am not surprised really, if you think about it, the biggest apac teams (PRX and GenG) got knocked out of groups, DRX was the last hope of the pacific and considering the event it held in korea, there is a lot more emotional attachment for DRX to perform and win champs. people simply didn't attend sen v fnatic bc the stakes were a lot higher for DRX in korea.
@@merlin5662 ye
I mean SEN vs FNC is the most viewed game this event. It's just that the event is in Korea and they'll go for the hometeam for good reason.
@@wrekt2192i mean sure, go for the DRX one, they’re korean. But if you’re paying for the day anyway, why not go a bit earlier and watch the absolute banger of sen v fnc as well?
i feel like there hasn't been a valorant LAN yet that has hit the mark energy and hype wise. ik ppl gonna get mad but if u watch even the most recent cs2 IEM cologne event, its INSANE compared to this current val tourny.
The closest was LOCK//IN I believe. Say what you want about the Brazilian crowd, they were LOUD (no pun intended). Still my fav valorant LAN to date.
@@professorshrimp5187
True the crowd was legit insane despite all the controversies. Even FNS, Sam said lock in atmosphere was genuinely unmatched even tho they lost against loud, it’s their fav moment.
Yeah I agree. The cs lan environment is just different.
But even when you compare valorant to smaller esports like rocket league, COD, and R6, even those esports have far better lan environments than valorant
The home crowd is truly a boon to hype, look at eleague Boston 2018. Then look at champs 23. Such a good underdog moment for both events but one is so clearly more mesmerizing than the other. I think valorant fans are too nice tbh.
Master Japan was hype
So does with Champ LA
A small idea of mine would be that people who attend the tournaments would rack up 1%-5% discounts per match or game for the merch they want to buy, and then open the shops before the arena matches begin. Just expanding on what you said that fans' experience need to be improved and need more incentive to attend games other than seeing their favorite teams play.
Speaking of merchandise, WHY are they not making more of them? They KNOW they always sell out in a day, and you don't get notifications about them becoming available to buy. I literally was doing something important and then I see a social media post the next day that it's sold out. Why are we batting an eye on this?
Bring it to PH and no matter the team there, it'll be full if not full then full of energy for sure.
Gotta make sure the tickets are reasonably priced and I assure you even fucking students will show up everyday.
But in terms of logistics and safety, It might be a nightmare for the organizer and players
@@bombie7757 nah, if you are new to the esports scene and was not involved to the backend you would think that. But we have a lotttt of organizers now and especially we have GAB and PeSO.
@yugengamingph Manila Major was hype, but there were a lot of nightmare issues from the TOs and Players. (I think a recent disaster event was the SEA Games as well). I'm not against the idea of PH getting an event but given our track record, it's hard to turn a blind eye on certain issues
porn hub?
Never watched these big counter strike events, but the energy looks awesome! Maybe that activation mentioned at the end can be tested in the regional games by doing those things like allowing more signs, drums, trumpets, it'd be so cool!
only halfway through but the comment about language is huge. i was privileged enough to attend masters madrid when im from LA , and speak only english. i wouldn’t expect it to BE in english , and its on me for not knowing a 2nd language , but man having my earbuds in and trying to listen to the vct americas broadcast in english didn’t cut it. i would love to attend champs paris as well in 2025 , but my bum ass doesn’t speak french either and so that’s a concern. some way for it to be broadcast loudest in the native language , but easier access to other languages in person would be huge.
Great takes as usual Mr. Sideshow. Would love to see you cover the shifting in Riot stipends away from content and just in game sales
I love these commentary videos out of you sideshow, please keep making them as bringing discourse and challenging ideas is important to find the best product for all parties
Send the next Champions to the Philippines. Trust me Crowd would go crazy. Just like when they held Dota ti6 in Philippines
TI never occurred in the Philippines... The manila major did.
@@a-kace mb
If they could replicate the production feel of Loud vs Fnatic during lock in... that would be golden.
The venue for the last few days of pacific stage 2 was really good, a 3 tiered system with that arena for the first 5 days of playoffs would have been really cool.
China stage qualifiers looked more hype than Champs
Just need more events man. Youre right about making it a common thing to go to events. I think the closest one has been LA for me, and im in Canada. Id love to go but theres not enough events to go to
We've got Toronto this coming year so that will be our first one :)
@@TaveZgg I know, I'm super hyped. I just hope we can get more!
yeah its really weird, valorant has like 3 events every year while cs players are travelling 200+ days every years to attend 10s of events. Sure not all are in big IEM cologne 18k+ arenas, but still atleast we get to watch more pro matches. i swear whenever i see a pro clips compilation from cs 90% are from these tournaments while in valo most are from pros streaming. most cs pros dont even have the time to stream while valo pros feel like streaming is their main job while playing in tournaments is secondary
Spreading Champs out over such a long period is also rough.
It's lasting the WHOLE month of August basically....so even if you GET a HYPE match....its tough to carry over if the next match is 5 days away multiple times.
I think a potential piece of this that’s important too from the business perspective, is how Riot wants to be able to sell the event further to venues by being able to show good sell through on ticket sales. By saying “we sold out our Grand finals at the Mercedes Benz arena in Shanghai in 33 seconds” is a high value marketing asset when looking for venue partnerships for future tournaments. And this may be more of what’s to be read between the lines in Leo’s statement, more than anything else. I think Riot is concerned with scaling these events in a healthy way, so that they’re able to build lasting relationships with venues, like CS has been able to. And from a venue perspective I can imagine why limiting sales and “creating a demand shortage” is a viable option to facilitate long term growth in the esports scene and why it maybe even encourage in talks with Riot with regards to how venues are advising to build a relationship with the Valorant audience to build traditions and a culture around attending events. The game has absolutely come a long why since Reykjavik 2020, where there was no audience. I am excited to see where things go and i anticipate that as long as Riot continues to see a return on their conservative approach to ticket sales and an increase in, in-person attendance rise they will steadily grow the offering. And someday we may see our trumpeter’s sound off in the stands. Go Valorant!
Sorry yall but I am the GOAT. This take is based as fuuuu🎉
I absolutely agree with the language in the stadium being an issue of some level, I was actually planning on going to Istanbul until I learned that it would be broadcast in Turkish in the stadium.
I think what he meant by "appetite but no demand" is that at its peak (finals), people will eat it up. but if it's always, constantly there, the demand will peter out. Appetite is there because there's hunger... if arena was always available even for small matches, no hunger = no appetite = no demand.
It feels like this year you had SO MANY teams looking like serious contenders to win champs and or pull some crazy upsets, and the competition is extremely high compared to other years where it was just a couple teams that were potential winners, and yet still the feeling of intensity and high stakes competition isnt fully there..
I don't really know if it was how they had the crowd mic set up or what was it, but up until this point the crowd just give the same vibe as masters group stage maybe?
And it's sort of understandable when your 2 local teams, one of which was considered to make it at least to top 3, are out of the tournament..
Hopefully this last part of the tournament with a bigger arena will turn things around
Could also be cool to have rewards in-game for attending in person events. Like a unique player card or title or something. That might motivate some die hard fans more to travel for events.
Lockin and Champs LA were the most hyped for me. I have doubts we will hit those peaks again
To answer your question about LoL, they tend to host each stage of the tournament in a different venue progressively going up in size. So Play-In tends to be in a small studio, group stage in a medium-size theater, quarterfinals in a small arena, and semifinals and finals generally in large arenas.
They should hold regional finals in arenas as well, not in the studio. They would easily sell tickets and it would give more the opportunity to see it live.
They should have the majority of events in Europe or NA. A more cosmopolitan crowd means most teams will have a good amount of fans showing up for games.
Also the studio games must suck for the players as well. Imagine traveling to Korea for Champs at the atmosphere feeling like a domestic league game
Crowds in Tokyo & Shanghai were very much there. It is more to do with Seoul imo like even for Pacific games the interest was very low.
They can move the headquarters from Seoul to Tokyo and try to capitalise on the interest of Japanese ppl towards valorant both domestically in terms of Pacific and hosting something like masters/champions. The don't even use same facilities like how VCT Americas and LCS does.
The thing with China is Shanghai is 3x the population of Seoul and that shows in demand too. Also Seoul has large esports events frequently, so the audience may have less scarcity demand. But also that could mean the base find events a more normal event to plan for. Idk
Dota2 TI used to be fully in arena, all matches in big arena. But in recent years, they have also changed it :(
I think part of the feel this year being lackluster is because last year had a lot more compelling storylines play out (Can fnc 3peat, EG underdog story, PRX looking their best and could get Pacific's first).
Looking at last years playoffs, round 1 had fnc vs loud which was a grand finals rematch from lock in and there was China vs Boostio. This year was regional matchups, so it wasn't as hype.
Last year's top 4 felt like the teams that made it there proved that they were among the best 4 teams in the world, with each of the teams placing at least top 3 at a previous event that year. This year each of the top teams left have looked shaky at some point this tournament. This can create the idea that maybe if the groups or playoff seeding were different, some of these teams might not be here.
For me, the hype about CS tournaments is that when we get to the arena you know the game is on and everything is on the line, because they have been playing from the backstage without a crowd. In Valorant, every game is broadcasted, every game has crowd (sometimes minimal - which I think is a bad thing, if there are less games with crowd, people would show up even for shittier games), it just seems like everything is the same.. I don't know if I'm watching the quarter-finals, or if I'm watching the first game in group stage.
9:06 I 100% agree. My family and I attended the 2011 Kalachakra that was being held in Washington D.C with a capactiy of 20,000 ppl and each individual was handed a small audio device with live translations of speakers in over 10 different languages. This is something Riot can definitely implement and help improve turnout for international fans.
I do miss the CS style of tourneys, while it was overkill at one point during CSGO it's hard to keep track of when the teams I like play in Val. It feels very few and far between, and it's hard to watch during the week nights. I liked knowing there was a CS tourney I could watch all weekend very often.
riots favorite employee speaking up against riot, damn never thought i would see the day
As much as I love this game, cs tournaments are just miles ahead
Oh for sure! But I want to see the potential for the pro scene here. Trust me, last year up to Madrid was more hype than what’s going on now.
CS has been around far longer, so they have their shit figured out. I hope Riot figures out their shit for Valorant as well
@@gpfhantom1890 they have more players I think they're comfortable rn
@@gpfhantom1890 CS has also figured out from early EPL and Flashpoint that franchising is just hella bad, that's not a time thing IMO
@@mikacarney you saying CS had this shit figured out in like 2 years?
personally aswell i feel like the kickoff/stage events could be held in different places in the US, ive wanted to watch them live but i cant go all the way to Cali every single event, like there are so many places it could expand too imo.
just gotta wait and see how it goes in the next few days, should still be a fun hype 4 days left of the tournament
Meanwhile, for this years LoL Worlds, it's going to be in the pretty small EU Riot Games Arena for both play-ins and the whole swiss stage. There's only 210 seats in that arena.
Kang Kang Doesn't Stand-up, Doesn't Post, Doesn't Cry
Bengyfishy doesn’t talk shit anymore
Demon1 is not shutting people up
Jing is not going to the military
C0M's flank is much more predictable now
FNC is not making another 11-3 comeback on a final
There are not Cinderella run like EG from ash to Champion this year
Just not enough trash talking from players, way to plain, not enough storyline. I think this is why the hype is not there😢
Some of it is just Riot trying to make it family-friendly and not offend any groups as usual
The one sided Audio ear buds they have at tennis matches is what I was thinking instead of the museum ones.
I’m very impressed and proud of Riot for allowing you to put out content like this during the middle of a major tournament that you’re actively broadcasting in.
This was well thought out analysis and criticism, and I love the comparisons to CS. Riot needs to loosen up on the reigns and liberate the game for the esports scene so it can be proliferated with many high quality tournaments like CS.
Trumpet guy is one for the history books.
demand for a grand finals /= demand for the rest of the days. similar to something like the US open in that sense-- they use a small arena because that way it would fill out most days instead of picking the much larger arena they could get for grand finals demand
this is why champs LA will always be the best event theyve ever done, something about them having a hype trailer for an ARENA was insane
I know we don't have any competetive teams, but god I would love to see a Valorant event in Australia. It's so expensive to go anywhere to see an esports event, which is probably why we haven't had one because it would be expensive for people to come here... but at this rate i may never see something IRL
would be cool to have in game drops only for in person and maybe goodie bags if they dont already for finals. and the audio thing with diff languages. maybe a lottery with the chance to win champs skin and u get a ticket every time u sign in and attend a match and they could do the lottery at the stage on finals,m would be pretty hype
I hope they held an event here in manila or cebu (Philippines).
They've done those headsets before for Pacific 2023 when I went! I don't know if they continued it though. They gave a QR code that led us to the audio of the English broadcast
Edit: The meme at 21:46 doesn't feel fair when that's typically how a Japanese crowd behaves.
it just doesnt feel like there is much on the line for anyone besides the players. you dont see the crowd, there are insane amount of drx and geng fans and yet we didnt see a single reaction when they are eliminated. it just feels like watching sweaty ranked matches. i barely heard any crowd cheers. just dissapointment. masters tokyo far surpases this crap.
When mako did that insane clutch i dont remember if had any crowd reaction
VCT Champion instanbul was the most hyped vct champs(2022)
I enjoy these videos man.. keep em coming!!
Hopefully Toronto is hype, gonna be the first Lan I attend
Good on Tarik for helping grow the game
"ill take his word" -- bro doesn't want to lose his job LMAO
I totally agree with the statement you made at the end where in that meme they shouldn't just let people use what they sell in a match but let them bring their own thing like you mentioned trumpets or flags ect. they already rob us from the skins they dont need to sell inflatable Sticks to hit when your team wins a round
It is always so easy to compare it to CS but they really are two different games and esports. One is around for over 20 years already, huge sponsors from betting sites, different format, different crowd.
We should take the goods and try to apply it to our system, but should never forget that it is still so new and STILL gains massive attention across the world with China and Pacific not only competing at top level but also selling out tournaments. Kids go with their parents and friends to watch Valorant games (my parents at least wouldn't have let me go to IEM Cologne or even go with me)
I think valorant does make it tough and layouts at arena . I am a die hard Val fan and for lock in went to São Paulo but the arena was so hot. Like some of these arenas they chose can’t even handle these amount of crowds. It was blazing during grand finals at lock in I think I lost a lb just watching in the heat . Also there is no synergy for most of the other teams other than home country team games. They feature so few shots of the crowd . It just feels dead because valorant needs to make it feel more alive in arena . Like sports events have crowd interactions or completions like we saw in vct americas and other vcts at half time . I want to see more of the die hard fans featured especially if they have traveled from different countries it’s so cool.
Re: tickets. Its also super annoying that once games start, open seats lock out and thats for all events. Theres no potential for seats to be filled
Personally I’ve been invested in esports since the Apex days of Overwatch in 2016-2017 but still haven’t been able to go to an event which is pretty much perfectly summed up by around 21:00 min. I think having a local national scene would also be nice (not necessarily realistic but would help) because say if the last stint of tier 3 national stuff was done in a dinky little 100 seater place it would then form a community which could then decide to go to said events together, share an air b n b ect. Like I said though, I really don’t see this idea being nearly as feasible.
I think making it through groups should guarantee youre appearance before youre eliminated. So not the first games of playoffs but the 2nd would be in the arena from there on. I think thats the best way to do it, imagine being Trace and you make it through groups but yet you were not able to play infront of thousands of fans.
What i think is wild is that, VCT Pacific ran games on a match by match basis. So im not sure why they switched to a day by day basis
i havent seen anyone say this yet. Sideshow's idea of giving the live fans headsets to listen to the broadcast in their own language. . this is so genius.. And not because it will increase the appetite for live viewership, but because people with headphones on . . and especially ones with something playing through them . . are LOUDER. think about how much more noise would be made my 10 thousand deaf people instead of the people who can hear their own voice
Sideshow spending 20 minutes just to say we need more trumpets smh
about broadcasting on the local language for ppl inside of the event, i think theres legislation that enforces that on most countries no? still the idea of giving headsets so ppl can hear the broadcast on a different language is definitely something they should look into doing
They should give codes for special champs skin variants when you attend champs in person.
I think after the group stage there should not be a double elimination system. Just a normal K.O. round. And that Top 8 should be played in Arena.
Valorant arena hype vs latest CS in Cologne. Night and day.
Perfect video of what I'm thinking
Honestly i like the feel of only the top 4 in the arena, feels like something greater than just playoffs or making champs to strive for. Other than that, i think all the hype of just "making champs" took away from the actual event, and having it be so long took away a lot of incentive from locals to go every day. CS had crowds in their Major group stage for a very short time, and it gave matches a much better feel. At the very least Riot can raise the crowd mics to pick up more energy from the big plays during the theater stage, but for the most part, while we hope and maybe work towards perfection, we shouldn't expect perfection from a still-growing esport.
As someone who bought tickets for semi and grand finals for champs 2023. The grand finals sells out because of resellers
As a purely viewer pov, It feels like I'm watching a smaller event than it actually is. Almost as if I'm watching a regional event, Nobody seems to care its like they are setup in a theatre like room. Especially after the CS:GO event that just happened this past weekend.
It’s crazy if you look at production between IEM Cologne and VCT Seoul. Val has more potential for their LAN events.
there is no potential if Riot isn't even trying to put in more effort into the production.
As a Californian I hope riot takes VCT to Japan, I know the crowd, caster, venue, and location is all GOD TIER 🤷♂️
Having at least one or two boom mics above the audience’s heads would instantly remedy the issue of hype.
As for the issue of people buying a day’s ticket and not attending all of the matches, I wonder if this could be remedied by selling half the tickets as “team passes” instead (at least for the group stage). In the group stage, every team is guaranteed to play at least 2 games, and will play at most 3 to lock in their spot for playoffs. Perhaps “team passes” could be sold to audience members who only really want to watch one team across the weekend? It could also potentially make up for the loss of crowd members who only stick around for the first match or only join in for the second match.
It would only really work for group stage, but I think it’d alleviate the issue of filling out arenas for group stages at the very least. Day passes for the Valorant diehards, team passes for the team-specific diehards.
Sideshow is taking all the Ws with this video
Good thing I am enjoying it
It doesn’t help that the online community seems to hate on the in person crowds so much. Best examples off the top of my head are the Brasilian games and the americas final with lev and g2. Like, do you want to hear the crowd or not?
The 2024 season has been the least hype year for sure
And this is coming from someone who has been following the scene from 2021.
It was more hype last year than this year. Especially with Champions 2023 since that was the very first champions with a crowd. Loved that EG won the title and that got me super hyped.
Madrid was the most hype event . Plus this year had a way better viewership by a longshot. The crowd may not be energetic for Champs. But Madrid the crowd was going crazy. Plus imo better storylines.
Appetite could be there but only for certain games, so technically people still eat valorant up but there are conditions that make renting out stadiums for conditional hunger seem pointless