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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- Should Superman be part of the Justice League? Is he too powerful, does he make the team obsolete? Or without Superman, can the Justice League even be called the Justice League? I go through some important reasons on why I think Superman is necessary for the team's existence.
Thanks to @lostrobot3666 for the comment! Leave your thoughts below on why is Superman is needed or not!
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As a certain Oliver Queen once said: "The world needs the Justice League, and the Justice League needs you Superman."
And then, Superman rips off his arm 😂
@@tyrellmultimedia Superman have the rights to bear arms, as an american.
Of course he does belong as a Justice League it's Superman
Yes. He should. He does clash with some of the other leaguers (mainly Batman). And sure he's by far the strongest there, BUT each of them do their own things. Jon is a telepath, Bruce has the greatest tactical mind, Vic has the best tech, etc, etc
I wouldn't say he's the strongest and definitely not by far if he is
@@alduin9369 In the JL? Yeah he's by far the strongest. My guy is able to punch out high tier reality warpers and take out some of the full league threats by himself sometimes
@alduin9369 Even the world forger was scared of him even before he was sun dipped that’s why he was sent to the planet with no sun during the story arc. he also went toe to toe with a Lex Luther that had the entire power of the dark multiverse fused into him and this same Lex fought the entire justice league and won easily. Yeah Superman is far and away the strongest member especially after he stops holding back or sun dips.
@@nicholasmurray7505 I mean we have martian manhunter who, unshackled, was able to defeat the entire justice league by himself while also toying with them. the flash is infinitely faster than Superman and could probably use some speed force bullshit to at least incapacitate him. Wonder Woman at her peak during dark metal was probably the most powerful JL member. again it varies he's probably the strongest as in physically able to lift the most and punch the hardest but I don't believe he's always depicted as being the most powerful
@@alduin9369I had a more aggressive comment at first but I don’t want a drawn out conflict over the power of a fictional character Superman is almost always the final line of defense because he is the strongest in most story arcs like Final Crisis and fights with world Forger, Apex Lex, doomsday and of course Darksied he always wins the day for the team. if I don’t change your mind whatever we’ll just agree to disagree
If you want to see a compelling story with interesting interactions between Superman and the other leaguers just look at Justice league unlimited.
One of the best cartoons of all time
Ironically in many early Justice League stories Superman was written out dealing with a different bigger threat. That being said he should still be on the team.
Absolutely. I still think the JL is capable without him but Superman adds much needed insurance.
batman was written out the league too but it was because thrmey had stuff going on in their own books, it's why they added green arrow and Martian manhunter we're added as reserve members in case they weren't around.
There was a joke on Seinfeld where Jerry says that Superman can literally take on all of the threats and that the Justice League in unneeded.
2:10 more of a running cheat code but yeah
I never understood this trend of making Superman villains JLA level menaces especially Brainiac.
The point is why doing that? Cause you want a big menacing alien conquering Earth? And on top of that you have to give him extra mind control powers?
If you want a JLA level alien villain that can control minds and wants to conquer Earth use Starro.
I could apply the same logic to Darkseid but on reverse, why counting Darkseid as a Superman villain? He is so much more powerful than him, to the point that the whole league is required to stop him.
If you want to put a big menacing alien tyrant against Superman use Mongul, he fills the exact same spot of Darkseid for a Superman story and moreover Mongul has WAY better stories against Superman than Darkseid ever had.
Brainiac & darkseid they should be threats to the justice league regardless of what your are saying
Darkseid & brainiac are too powerful just for superman just too fight solo
@@yarc9 i agree on Darkseid but not on Brainiac.
He's always been a Superman villain and simply cause some media try to amp him up on a JLA level this doesn't mean this should be done in the comics.
As i said in the main comment what's the purpose of that? To give the JLA another alien invader that should be changed in order to give him mind control powers he didn't have in order to get another Starro? Just use Starro at this point.
Moreover, differently from Darkseid, Brainiac has a specific reason to go against Superman: his kryptonian heritage.
Darkseid simply wants a good obedient soldier for his army but for him Superman isn't special, Darkseid would simply spare whoever seems good enough to be part of his army (like Wonder Woman for example) while Brainiac is utterly fascinated by Superman.
Brainiac sees Superman as the last piece he lacks for his collection or a chance to study what happens to kryptonians when exposed to completely different environments (since Clark grew on Earth and not on Krypton).
Brainiac wouldn't be interested at all in the other members of the league, maybe Martian Manhunter but the others? I don't think so
@@niccoloproia3678 brainiac always been a threat to the justice league his knowledge exceeds all things in dc universe brainiac gives lex Luther a run for his money
@@yarc9
No, he was introduced as a Superman villain and he remained one for decades.
This is exactly what i'm saying, this change of Brainiac from a Superman threat to a JL threat is much more recent.
I agree on the knowledge bit but what's the point? That Brainiac is so intelligent that Superman can't stop him? Superman has a tradition of extremely clever villains: Ultra-Humanite, Lex Luthor, Toyman etc.
It simply boils down to the fact that it's entertaining to see a brawn vs brain type of fight so i don't see the problem of putting Superman against this 12th level intelligence being
Probably the best reason for Supes to not be on the team would be "A World Without Superman." We could either get some sort of alternate reality shown to Clark or Bruce or someone (Diana may be an interesting POV person to use) by The Spectre or whatever... or we could simply get a version of DC where Clark's pod hasn't landed on Earth yet. I think it'd be pretty interesting to see a world where the JLA still formed for some reason (tbh, I feel like Superman is usually a big part of the reason why it even gets formed... but we could pretty much just tweak JL TAS where MM forms it) and then like a year later, Clark's pod lands. Except in this universe, I think it makes more sense if Clark is at least 12, rather than probably not even 2, when he's sent off Krypton. Because otherwise, we just do a massive like 15-20 year time skip or he won't be remotely relevant. But pre-teen Clark SEEING the Justice League be active, perhaps interacting with Bruce who has a habit of adopting and training all orphans he comes across (which Clark would effectively be)... Diana, the warrior princess and probably hero most willing to kill... I mean, imagine a Diana acting like, "He could destroy us all. We should kill him!" And Bruce being like, "No! You won't hurt my son!" Lmao
Could be a very interesting world, imo. But I see no valid reason why a Clark who grows up to be Superman and is most likely to help form the JL, shouldn't be on it. So only the "World Without Superman" type story works, imo.
He's the de-facto leader of the Justice League... How dare they! I will not entertain this conversation 😂💀 this conversation is over! Finito, we're done here
Super fanboy detected lmao! the league doesn't have a leader. it never did
@NJ-eo2oc It does have a de-facto leader. I own over two thousand DC comics and the league has and will always revolve around Superman. You just want to be different. If you ask anyone even not a super fan who the leader of the JL is they will tell you Superman. And if he's missing then Martian Manhunter and Batman will assume his position.
EDIT: Him being the leader doesn't take away from any of the other league members and it isn't necessarily done on strength. It just means he's the face and best suited to lead with MM and Bats being his right and left hand. WW, Flash, Aquaman and GL play their roles too, no one is carried in my opinion.
Thanks bro, TMM and that user is just a Superman hater ,why would anyone think that Superman shouldn't be in the justice league
@@NJ-eo2oc you are a Superman hater , cry Superman has and always be the team leader
Well too fair he is way too powerful to the point of absolute ridiculous that he could solve all the problems and in the movie where he’s gone crazy after coming back to life that he took them without a sweat and the same for question in BVS is why is Lex his greatest enemy again as his plan to kidnap his mother which he’s faster than a speeding bullet.
That $hit movie ain't canon
@@NJ-eo2ocI know that but you know what I’m saying?
For another rapid response video or just a video in general I would love if you could talk about theme songs and which dc characters in your opinion have the best theme song whether it be superman, batman, wonder woman, the flash or even green lantern. But in my opinion the john Williams superman theme is my favourite superhero theme ever and will hands down always be the greatest superhero theme of all time and one of the greatest theme songs in all of fiction
Great points TMM! Another great rapid response vid!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Superman is a bit of a boy scout but he isn't necessarily an extroverted team player. Look at who he has in his support ranks, people who get out of the way as fast as possible so Superman can fight plus Supergirl (who can hold her own in most cases). He needs as few distractions as possible, teamplay doesn't gel with it. The last thing he needs is accidentally punching an ally in the heat of a fight and turning them to meat paste, which he usually won't do with his general discipline and restraint but it's still a possibility.
The League needs Superman, Superman doesn't necessarily need the League. I think he would still choose to be in the League but while others might appreciate the consistent backup, Superman might want to be in it for the opposite reasons, to tell others to stay away or to help civilians while he does his thing solo.
Talking like a super fanboy lol. the league doesn't need him either. plenty of op and capable characters in DCU can protect innocents
@@NJ-eo2ocWhen I said that I didn't mean it as 'Superman could do everything on his own on top of beating everyone in his way'. I meant it as Superman just operates solo more efficiently than he does in close quarters teamups in most instances. But a League without Superman feels soulless.
"Superman" Kal-El is a Symbol just like "Captain America" Steve Rogers is a symbol. People are so obsessed with Drama. Why does the Justice League filled with a bunch of Veteran Adults need to possess a bunch of Drama?
It certainly doesn't. And I think that's why the Justice League operates pretty well.
@@tyrellmultimedia Exactly. He's typically the staple alongside "Batman" Bruce Wayne and usually "Wonder Woman" Diana. Hal Jordan, John Stewart, and Kyle Rainer are often busy with the Green Lanterns. Both Barry Allen and Wally West could be anywhere in the Multiverse or Timestream. Arthur Curry is responsible for Atlantis. I can literally go over everyone besides often J'onn J'onzz who have other obligations. Even Batman and Wonder Woman are often busy.
don't compare trash captain America to superman
without superman marvel wouldn't exist
@@John_808Bruh what?
He's stating a fact and your just hating on Captain America + all of Marvel for no reason. Like if you hate Marvel so much then you didn't need to reply.
@@TheMainOne2.0
Captain America is like Superman not the other way
Stop the nonsense
Superman did it first
Don't compare some dumb Marvel characters to Superman who is such an iconic character and a legend and myth
I feel like it depends on the Superman involved. If you have the Big Blue Boyscout Superman, then he acts as a moral pillar to the team. Someone they can look up to for help and guidance and as a standard for heroism they should strive for.
In settings where Superman’s a bit edgier? Then the League can help rein him in. Batman can outsmart him, Wonder Woman has better combat experience, Flash is faster, Martian Manhunter has psychic powers, Green Lantern can create whatever he wants, while none of them are quite on Superman’s level individually, all of them together could potentially hold him accountable if he goes off the rails for whatever reason. . . Provided none of them join his side like in Injustice or something.
Interesting question I’ve never considered. I think it’d be cool if the trinity was its own team, and the Justice League was a separate entity. Who would be replacing the trinity in this new Justice League though?
Flash, Green Lantern and Green Arrow or Black Canary perhaps?
@@tyrellmultimedia true, those are a must
Can I also add; idk where this "superman is the leader of the JLA" business came from (maybe from the DCAU idk" but that was never the case in the comics. The justice Leauge has had rotating chairmen, not just one leader.
Every member of the Justice League belongs there. They all serve a purpose in the League.
If you want to shelf Superman so that someone else can take the spotlight for the story. Have him do search and rescue around the area. The man’s kindness and willing to help others would ease the victims more than someone like Batman.
Who would be the first ideal supervillain for SUPERMAN?
• And by “supervillain” I meant one with powers that are equal and/or greater than Superman’s. I imagine this villain would be his greatest challenge in his early career as Metropolis’ first superhero. That villain would (indirectly)force Superman to think outside the box and use his powers and abilities more properly and in the most creative and imaginative way possible.
The Justice Incarnate is the most powerful team ever in comic history
I don’t think the power scaling problem the commenter pointed out would really be solved by taking Superman off the team. Yes, he will be the most powerful member by default, but it’s not by that wide of a margin. Like you mentioned, characters like Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter can rival him in power, so any threat Superman can handle on his own can also be handled by either of them on their own.
The issue isn’t that Superman’s presence makes the rest of the League redundant, it’s more that they’re all so powerful that them all working together is overkill unless it’s something absurdly dangerous like Darkseid or Dr. Manhattan.
The best solution is to treat the League as less of a “team” and more of an organization. They join forces *partly* because there are some threats big enough to justify them all working together, but mostly because there are just so many problems in the world that it’s best to coordinate their efforts to distribute their time efficiently. The JL cartoon did this fairly well, having a bunch of episodes that only had 2-4 of the seven members dealing with something, and even some that had none of the main seven and only had secondary members. I’d like to see this done to an even greater extent, and even have it so that all seven core members working on a problem is seen as a “nuclear option”
The real question is should Batman be apart of the Justice league. I’ve been thinking this for awhile now but what the toxic discourse around Batman making back up plans in case the league goes rouge and him not having powers but fighting along side these powerful heros he kinda feels out of place. Even in the DCAU he called himself a part timer. If anything I believe Batman should be removed from the league and he just stops by once in a while but he should mostly stay in Gotham. I’d even recommend that you have two leagues. Having Superman run the Justice League ( who handle space and intergalactic threats ) while Batman runs the the Justice Society and sticks to the more earth and grounded stories. For the justice league roster it would look like this:
JL:
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Flash ( Barry Allen )
4. Green Lantern ( Hal or John )
5. Aqua man
6. Martian manhunter
7. Green Arrow ( because he can be the moral compass but doesn’t come off as harsh as Bruce does plus he can fund the team instead of Batman)
JS:
1. Batman
2. Dr. Fate
3. Green Lantern ( Kyle or Guy )
4. Power Girl
5. Zatana
6. Blue Beetle
7. The flash ( Wally west )
batman is the smartest hero on the planet and the ultimate tactician, plus he builds almost all the stuff the justice league uses you can't just replace that, he might be a human but he since proved multiple times over the reason he's one the greatest heroes alive.
@@Superdude-rd2gs oh shut up
The Nail.
Iykyk
Bro, what is this? of course you need Superman that’s like having the avengers without Iron Man, Hulk Thor Captain America, because those are the big players and Superman is in the Trinity like how marvel has a Trinity this is such a stupid question
This video is a response to a question/statement someone left on one of my posts. I made this video to give examples on why he's necessary. Instead of saying "this is stupid", I kindly went through his comment and discussed it. Discourse is important.
@@tyrellmultimedia I know it was a response I get it, but I’m just saying if you’re not gonna have DC’s big player on their premier super hero team then somethings not right
A powerful villain comes along and Superman has to become more powerful. Then, out of the shadows comed an even more powerful villain and Superman has to become more powerful to beat him.
Thr next time that thought enters your mind, just remember these important words: "In this episode of Dragonball Z... Goku pulls another Super Saiyan form out of his ass".
Superman is the leader. Of course
Just going to get out of the way that I agree with everything you said
But as far as the original comment, the part where lostrobot3666 loses me is the thing about everyone getting along with Superman as a bad thing like there aren’t other teams that have a member who don’t really have friction with another member.
Like maybe I’m misinterpreting it and that’s meant to be one whole issue with the leader thing as opposed to two separate but related things like he’s written it.
In which case, fair enough, but I would still say Batman is pretty much the lancer foil to Superman’s leader role, even if it’s a completely different dynamic from Tony to Steve and Logan to Scott
But if I was right the first time, and they meant it as a blanket statement that every member of any given team should friction with at least one other member, then just going off the two teams they mentioned, who has beef with Beast or Nightcrawler on the X-Men? Like maybe Magneto on the times when he’s a member, but apart from that, last I knew they were each pretty solid with everybody.
Avengers, alright, you might have me there. Maaaaaaaybe Wasp, but that’s only up until you start weighing her relationship to fellow founding member and ex-husband Ant-Man/Giant Man/Yellow Jacket, however many aliases he’s used, Hank Pym.
Short answer: yes
Long answer: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SUPERMAN is not only the best written member of the JLA hell he’s debatably the best written superhero in fiction.
Saying he shouldn’t be in the justice league is blasphemy, superman’s character dynamics alone carries him in the
Team based stories he’s in. Even if it didn’t superman’s personality and character of his own is good enough to clash
With anyone else in the JLA
Facts bro, he's just a Superman hater
WARNING ⚠️: LONG ASS COMMENT!!!
Batman shouldn't be in the Justice League as a front line fighter.
If he's there purely as the strategist or sponsor then it's great, but not as a front line fighter.
Because a regular human being with no superpower standing shoulder to shoulder with literal gods like Superman and Wonder woman makes no sense.
A regular human being with no powers fighting monsters, aliens and gods like Darksied, and winning, makes no sense.
It already pushes the limits of believability when he single handedly takes on entire criminal organisations and no one manages to get a lucky shot in the exposed part of his face.
The writers really cannot decide what to do with Barman, according to statements he has no superpowers and then goes and performs superhuman feats
The statements and the feats contradict
Even small things like being thrown at a wall with such force that the wall collapses and not having your back broken is superhuman, and Batman has done stuff a million times more impressive.
My main issue is that Batman being in the Justice League as a front line fighter undermines the Justice League and proves them to be redundant.
Because if we maintain that Batman has no superpowers, then all his feats are humanly possible. If they are not humanly possible then Batman is superhuman which contradicts the lore.
Even if we say only 1% of the entire human race can do what Batman does then that still leaves us with millions of people.
Imagine that, a million people (this is a estimate, it's probably a lot more) given enough training and resource can do what Batman does.
Then why even bother with a small team of heroes where every single member is more or less irreplaceable, when you can have an army of replaceable men who can defeat any enemy by outsmarting them with their contingency plans?
Strangely only Batman suffers from this problem because I have no problem with IronMan(another regular human) being in the Avengers and standing shoulder to shoulder with gods like Thor and Hulk.
Because the moment he puts on his sifi suit he is practically superhuman
and you dont need to worry about how it makes no sense for a regular human to take on gods
And because of Iron Man's character it also makes sense why he doesn't create an army of IronMen.
He used to sell his weapon to the military
They got in the wrong hands and were used to destroy millions of lives
It makes sense why there isn't an army of men with IronMan suit because Tony doesn't trust people with his weapons anymore.
I know a lot of people are very passionate about this so if you think I'm wrong please go easy on me
💙
Facts , batman is the worst
U should read irredeemable which is a story in which a evil Superman archetype decides to destroy the world and that universes justice league has to find a way to defeat him
Is that the series written by Mark Waid? Never read it but I like the sound of it!
@@tyrellmultimedia yessir
Superman is the powerhouse of the team. Even when compared to the likes of Shazam and Martian Manhunter he's their Biggest gun. So if you want to have the most powerful team possible, you need Superman. As of his interaction with the team, Superman fits that boring but important roll of being the "straight man" or "normal guy" among all the other weirdos he works with. Clark is the more leveled headed guy, which is a great quality for any leader. You're less likely to take sides or judge unfairly because you don't have many prejudices or foolish hang-ups, you're just everybody's friend. That on top of his caring nature and his Unwavering loyalty to his friends and to the Job( like flying across the Universe to save a little girl or walking into hell to save John Henry's soul from a Demon) and how could you not want his guy on your team, or leading it.
You kind of glossed over the last point. Superman gets along with everyone and everyone gets along with Superman. This eliminates one third of all conflict (interpersonal conflict). Without conflict, there's no story.
So, writers are stuck with the other two types of conflict: internal conflict (which is difficult to do--but not impossible--with a team comic) and external conflict with villains and forces of nature. The lack or diminished role of interpersonal conflict (with Supes getting along with everyone) feeds into the initial point of needing a stronger villain. Internal conflict could take too long with a team book, so writers typically double down on external conflict (villains). Here's this villain you didn't know about who's working behind the scenes.
I usually like to keep Rapid Response videos 10-12 minutes long so I didn't want to ramble on too long. You covered that point well though.
They could always have Superman be somewhere else when the conflict takes place
Superman doesn't always get along with people, he has butted heads with Batman plenty of times despite them being friends.
He's broken but also has some easily exploitable weaknesses
Kryptonite and red solar energy will always be a problem for him.
Batman is the leader of the justice league
Naa
@@BillBlazejowski yaa
Batman is not , not everything revolves around batman u idiot
Spoken with such confidence and conviction. You do know this is all make-believe, right?!
Then leave.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec Again...all fiction. Chill, and get a real life.
@@HellenVanPattersonPatton80 Sure, you take your advice and do the same. Don’t comment here. Just go to bed. Let people have their fun. Bye, Bye bye
Supes is an uninteresting character, due to being so completely overpowered. Kryptonite needs to be used may more frequently. Supes in animated JLA and JL Unlimited was best version of character.
Dude, no. Cease such none sense. There are plenty of ways people could have conflict with Superman without having to throw hands. He can get too trusty with a villain who “turn good” (something Batman can cover for him). He may ignored the little people in his better world (so people like Green Arrow can cover that)
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec It's...make-believe...
@@HellenVanPattersonPatton80 And you belive.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec I do. It's fun, yes?
@@HellenVanPattersonPatton80 So you’re a hypocrite.
Superman's superman syndrome has spread to the rest of the league that's how bad it is even batman doesn't resemble human capabilities anymore
Once the strongest being on Earth creates even stronger foes. For the rest of the Justice League members to have an impact, they inevitably need a power upgrade as well.