@Daron7181 I'm not a fan of either of them, but to be fair, he in fact, wasn't strong enough. He also had like 900 years to prepare and was still not strong enough
@@Anderson_S17 What are your arguments that Sidious was stronger in this duel? Yes, Sidious won overall in that he wiped out the Jedi. But he couldn’t keep up with Yoda in saber combat, using the force…? Sidious didn’t do any damage to Yoda aside from his first lightning strike. Let’s not forget Yoda’s force push in which Sidious went flying across the room. He tried to flee after that if I’m not mistaken. Yoda was able to defend himself from the lightning strike towards the end of the duel. Unless someone can tell me info from books etc.. I don’t buy it. Sidious is overhyped. Also, the jedi should’ve put up more of a fight against the clones. I do understand that too much of that would take away the shocking factor of Order 66 though. Still an L for Ep III in my opinion. Would’ve been more epic and yes, the jedi would still be wiped out in the end. I’m not saying Sidious is weak. Ofc not.. but I don’t think he is as strong as Yoda.. for obvious reasons.
Also yoda is all about making you face your greatest fears. Yoda was not going to accommodate Obi wan’s reluctance to fight his brother just like how he demanded Luke kill Vader despite knowing he is his father. I also feel that because of this if yoda was at the temple when anakin revealed palpatine is sideous he would have insisted anakin join them in confronting the chancellor.
The second point you made is excellent, very sound reasoning and makes the story come full circle that Anakin would have been in that fight either way to carry out the main plot elements, just a different way around, perhaps better than the original in some ways.
I think its honestly quite simple. Yoda was better then obi wan, both in combat and sheer power in the force, he knew palpatine would have simply thrashed him easily. He pretty much says it to him
By that logic, was Obi-Wan wrong when, in Episode II, he told Anakin: "I can't take Dooku alone. I need you."? Wasn't Anakin's emotion-driven refusal to listen to Obi-Wan's instruction to "take" Dooku "together" ("No, I'm taking him now!") the very thing that cost him his arm? I simply don't buy Yoda's line of reasoning on this one. I just don't see how having the assistance of *the* master of Soresu would have been disadvantageous for Yoda -- and thus advantageous for Sidious. Seems to me the exact opposite would have been the case.
its actually really simple, yoda and windu should have went to grab palpatine. In any other story, they would have. Those two. If they would of went it would of been over for palpatine. He couldnt contend with either of them in the sword vs sword game really, other factors came into both there losses, windu anakin showing up, and yoda the senate thing rising, remember sidious goes to leave but yoda stops him, sidious didnt want to fight yoda 1v1.
Another reason was given in TCW season 6. In the vision battle against Sidious, Yoda might have beaten him, but had to save Anakin. He knew that Sidious was more powerful than Obi-wan, and he might end up having to save him at the cost of a killing blow against Sidious.
I still don't understand why they didn't confront Anakin together. Anakin never could have taken them both and they might have still been able to turn him at that point. All 3 of them could definitely take Palpatine
The thing is, Anakin was too far gone to turn back. He had already succumbed to the big failure of the Sith, which is that the Dark Side corrupts and twists your good intentions into wanting more power just for the sake of it and not using your power for the good reason you originally intended. Even if he did, Anakin wouldn't match Sidious in saber skill and would get in the way similarly to Obi Wan in the discussion, with the added worry that Sidious could somehow turn Anakin back to the Dark Side mid duel. No matter how you spin it, they were pretty fucked and the play they made was the best chance they had.
I don't think that they would have turned him, but I think that they could have easily taken him out. And I think that would have been devastating for Sidious
I think a lot of it had to do was yoda was not about coddling other Jedi’s emotional attachments. He wanted Obi wan to let go and do his duty as a jedi even if it meant killing his best friend.
Naw. Anakin was done. Nothing not even Padme was going to change him. Anakin was like that wild friend that needed to hit rock bottom before eventually finding their way. A stubborn addict.
😂😂😂 I can't believe people out there STILL don't get the point to this scene. Even Lucas has said a million times that Palpatine LET Windu get into that position as the last seduction of Anakin.
@P G you are literally a doofus. He’s actually stated the opposite. Mace Windu’s ‘Vaapad’ ability literally uses the dark side against the user. So fighting someone like Sidious would have made him super saiyin. Mace is a great duelist already, and the fact that he has a ‘counter’ ability to the dark side is also helpful. He beat sidious.
@@skyflores9827 the book explains it better than Lucas then lol. The entire galaxy wouldn’t just believe Palpatine and his voice recording. We are talking about branding all Jedi’s as traitors. You need to sell that. And Palpatine sacrificed his face on purpose. When he presented his disfigured face to the galaxy, nobody doubted the Jedi were traitors. Also, Anakin had to be the one to deal the death blow to Mace, to ensure he could never go back. Palpatine sensed Anakin coming, that’s when he ‘threw’ the fight. Palpatine had Windu dead early in the exchange, he let him go
I think Mace won the fight, I see the point of sidious using Anakin's confusion and putting him in a position where he needed to take a step to the dark side but using himself as bait for Anakin's downfall is too cunning, he is such a planner he organised a galaxy wide war he would never put himself at risk where he could have died. Maybe he saw opportunity to manipulate Anakin in that moment but I don't think he threw the fight
You make it sound like Obi-Wan’s personal failure in declining to kill Anakin (perhaps knowing the prophecy) by itself might have caused Yoda to lose to an undistracted Palpatine. It sure would have eliminated future plots.
It didn't matter, if Palpatine was undistracted or not! Palpatine was so confident about his force powers! Specifically, his force lighting! When he tried to use the full force of his force lighting and Yoda all but absorbed it and sent it back at him, he was shook. Remember, Clone troopers were coming! Palpatine knew that and Yoda did as well. If there was no Clone troopers and Yoda didn't fall from that high distant, he would have killed Palpatine. Palpatine believe no Jedi was capable of defeating him. He was almost wrong against Windu and Yoda! Windu getting betrayed by Anakin and Yoda falling from a high distant and Clone troopers coming to aid Palpatine.
"To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, your are not!" - Yoda in Revenge of the Sith. Obi-Won couldn't handle Dooku, but it's weird he was able to maim Anakin. Anyway, its sci-fi, not realy. Oh, and Mace beat Sidious fair-and-square.
It's not weird. He knew all of Anakin's strengths, flaws, and tendencies, especially the fact that Anakin's hubris led him to make costly mistakes. While Dooku was fairly cocky himself, he didn't allow it to make him a sloppy duelist like Anakin did.
I think that it would’ve been more complicated than that. One of the main reasons the Jedi were taken out so quickly was surprise. Palpatine attacked very fast and took them by surprise and only mace windu and kit fisto, who were the last to be attacked survived more than one strike. Is obi wan was one of the first to be attacked, then yeah, he probably would have died. But since obi wan’s entire dueling strategy was focused on defence, I think that he could have survived a lot longer.
I imagine Palpatine looking for the first opening he could get to take out Obi-Wan and then focusing on Yoda. Yoda didn't want to lose Obi-Wan and knew he would probably stand a much better chance against Anakin, who he had trained and been on missions with.
@@YonnyGoldFella Obi-wan couldn't even take Dooku. Yoda had the skills to kill Sidious, but Sidious had the high ground in the senate chamber. Also if Yoda hadn't dropped his lightsaber I believe that Sidious would've died.
@@lizardC549 Yoda had his lightsaber but could not handle the lightning which is why he dropped it , it happened once could have happened if Yoda had another light saber, saying that 'if he didn't drop his lightsaber' is dumb, by this logic 'if Windu doesn't block the lightning then he is fried' , it doesn't work like that
@@davidkosiba624 Yoda disarmed Sidious period therefore Sidious fell back on using the force. Regardless of how Yoda dropped his lightsaber, he still dropped it, Mace didn't. If it wasn't for Anakin betraying him he would've killed him unless Sidious jumped out the window. Therefore we can conclude that if Yoda didn't drop his lightsaber and blocked it like Mace did while factoring in the distance between the the two, Sidious most likely would've died that day unless some unforeseen circumstance occurred. Next time think before you type.
I do believe that Sidious would have simply used the force to overcome Obi-Wan. I recall hearing once source that says Jedi and Sith sometimes only draw their lightsabers if they are relatively equal in the force. Sidious was much stronger in the force then Obi Wan and was even the one to overcome his force shield on the invisible hand, allowing Dooku to push and choke him. He'd simply overcome Obi Wan's shield then zap him with lightning and disable him or something like that then deal with Yoda.
Obi wan was "The" Master of Form 3 Soresu He mastered it to The highest level where no matter the opponent he was able to Deflect or block any kind of attacks Lightsaber or blaster bolt He was that skilled however having said that I think Obi wan could hold out against Sidious for a While but not Forever Because Sidious was Way too Aggressive and More powerful for Obi wan While i thihk he could definitely hold his own and Go Toe to toe with him for a Short period I dont think he Alone would be able to overcome sidious
I imagined a scenario where Obi-wan always stayed close to Sidious and fought very defensively, dividing Palpatine’s attention, while Yoda tried to counter the Emperor’s Force powers which easily could have overwhelmed Obi-wan. It would still be unlikely that they could defeat Palpatine and both survive, but if either of them *did* survive killing the emperor, that one could likely defeat Anakin
@Christopher Gillette in this scenario it most likely would have been Yoda He was Just way too Powerful and strong with the force Somewhat even EQUAL to Palpatine in Force abilities He was 870 Years old The Most wisest Knowledgable Gifted and Skilled Jedi Masters in the Entire Galaxy He Taught Many Apprentices Most Notable is Mace Windu Who was the only one Who Defeated Palpatine Lightsaber to Lightsaber Thats because of Mace being a Darkisde Practitioner and Him creating his own "Sith Kryptonite" Lightsaber form Etc etc And He was Taught directly From the Right hand of Yoda Himself so if Mace could do it i truly believe Yoda could too It would be yoda 💯
It's like you said, there's no point in sending Obi-Wan to fight Sidious. He's hard enough for Yoda to fight on his own without having to worry about protecting Obi-Wan. But they probably should've just double-teamed Anakin and then worried about Sidious later. Unlike Obi-Wan, Yoda would've actually killed Anakin and rid the galaxy of Vader at least. Sure, Sidious would still be around, but it would be a pretty big loss for the Empire.
Palpatine would have sensed Anakin was in danger and go save him making it 2v2 which is established to be a suicide mission. Palpatine needed a distraction hence why Yoda needed to duel him.
yeah, sidious did not want to fight yoda its a fact, remember when sidious trys to leave ? yoda doesnt let him. Part of the reason why is, originally sidious underestimated yoda and all the jedi, but when he heard dooku used forced lightning and yoda caught it, and sent it back at dooku, sidious got worried he was pretty shook, so was dooku. Dooku was trained by yoda though, people forget that. But sidious up untill then thought the jedi were way weaker then they were, and when yoda did that sidious was actually convinced yoda might have mastered both the dark, and the light side dooku was convinced yoda studied the dark side from that moment, him and sidious. So Sidious didnt want to fight yoda 1v1, that was not something he wanted to do lol and got very lucky the arena was where it went down.
I see it differently. Yoda v sidious in lightsabre was a stalemate. Sidious knew this. So he went with the force. Yoda kept trying to turn it back to sabres cos that was his only chance. Once yoda lost his sabre, his chance had gone. Sidious v yoda in the force was only going to be a sidious win. Thats why yoda ran, cos he was dead if he didnt
Here's a potential topic for a future video: did the destruction of Alderaan create any wounds in the force like the ones created at Malachor V? To my knowledge, far more people lost their lives on Alderaan to the Death Star than at Malachor V to the mass shadow generator, yet all I've heard about the destruction of Alderaan is that it created a disturbance or ripple in the force. Were there extra factors at Malachor V that contributed to the creation of wounds in the force that weren't present on Alderaan, was it something else, or do we simply not have enough information to make this comparison?
Only thing I could go off of here is the two different versions of the force. Living force and cosmic. You end a major amount of living force would only be a blink in the cosmic or if you would a ripple. I'm not saying anything forsure kinda just trying to believe my own bs at this point.
I do find it interesting that Yoda was hoping for Obi-Wan to best Anakin during his own duel with Sidious, when you consider that hyper-drives aren't instantaneous travel. Obi-Wan would have to discover Anakin's location AND travel there while all Yoda had to do was travel to the Senate building on the same planet. When you think about it, Yoda's plan pretty much involved him waiting around on Coruscant for quite some time, all the while knowing that the Jedi were being hunted and likely he himself was being searched for.
@@Sir-Seaniel I think its just a general trait of sci-fi to forget that their own established forms of travel takes time. Its rare to see outright instant teleportation being the means of travel so you'd expect there to be some time involved at least.
@@hoozoohleague8264 Nope, Yoda wehtn to Dagoba because the force cave there would hide his force projection from Vader and Sidious. He clearly could not hide from Sidious. This is just lazy writing. They just ignored that Obi-Wan's travel to Mustafar would take a while.
I agree. You clearly see it in Episode 1 with Quigon & Obi -Wan vs Darth Moul that the two were getting in each others way and Obi Wan once had to duck from Jinn's swing of the light saber. In the beginning, Obi-wan was more mindful as yoda encouraged him to be and after Quigon's death he was more defiant like he was but still listined Yoda and Jedi Council and they knew things were getting serious with Sith Lord around. And things got more intense in Episode 2. Anakin was impulsive to try to take Dooku alone instead together. As Yoda said, " Only a jedi with the force as his ally can conquer Vader and his Emperor".
and in clone wars obi wan and adi gallia vs maul and savage opress. its like obi wan is holding back the whole time because he is with another master, but when she dies he picks up her saber dual wields and beats maul and opress back into retreat.
@christopherlahart184 I have to disagree, Maul only gained the upper hand and was able to defeat Qui-Gon once he separated Qbi-wan from the duel and could fight the Jedi one v one. Maul himself said that as the duel was unfolding that he felt the force was favoring the Jedi. Qui-Gon, being older and using an aggressive lightsaber form was running out of gas, allowing Maul to take advantage. Had Obi-wan been able to rejoin the duel with his master, this wouldn't have happened.
@@catmandu6776 I believe that's one of the factors, but not main one. I noticed Qui-Gon sweating in the Force Field as was Maul during their short break from fighting. Maul as a species was probly younger and faster than Qui-Gon as he was older as a human Jedi. I agree if both Jedis were still fighting Maul, he would've eventually been defeated.
"To fight this lord Sidious strong enough you are not" - does this even need explaining, it was literally the line in the movie. Yoda knew that Obi-Wan couldn't defeat the Emperor 1v1 and Yoda himself knew he was more powerful than Kenobi himself so he saw more of a chance of defeating Sidious himself. Anakin at this point was also incredibly powerful, certainly more powerful than Obi-Wan, but the advantage that Kenobi had here was that he was Anakin's master, he trained him and knew his moves, so he had the best chance to defeat him. A very simple explanation.
@@tortureddesert3453The thing is. Pre order 66 palpatine is weaker than post order 66 palpatine. Due to the shift in the force Palpatine got stronger. The Palpatine that Yoda fought was stronger than the Palpatine that mace fought. Since Yoda was able to stalemate this palpatine he would’ve been able to beat the same one Mace did
Reminder of How strong Mace actually is, able to defeat palps while 3 other top tier dualist were cut down in seconds. Obi wan and yoda agreaing they could not defeat palps together. Yoda stalemating palps. Conclusion: Mace Windu > all Sith and Jedi
I mean Windu had 3 others with him, so we can't quite say windu alone is better than sidious. It was an uneven fight. When anakin turned up windu got his just desserts.
So if Kenobi and Yoda showed up to confront Palpatine, you think he would call Vader from across the galaxy to help him to defeat them both? So where are Kenobi and Yoda during that? Having a cup of tea with Palpatine while they waited? Lol. When Yoda showed up to confront Palpatine, he didn't have time to even dial 911 and drop the phone on the ground. Lol. Didn't think that one through did ya?
This could have been a much shorter clip: If they'd written Obi-Wan and Yoda going after Palatine, they'd have ended him. Obviously that can't happen in the prequels. Logic would dictate they'd obviously go together.
Please, obi wan would have been slain very quickly. Yoda kept trying to turn it into a lightsabre duel also because he knew that, force v force, sidious wins
I can understand that's why Yoda would not let Obi-Wan help him fight Palpatine. Knowing how powerful he is, Obi-Wan likely would have died. Yoda was only able to match Palpatine for a short while. While they're both equal in terms of lightsaber skills, Palpatine is more Adept at using force abilities. Which is why during his duel against Yoda, he tried to put as much distance between him and the former as possible. He may have been able to use his lightsabers in the past, but he still relies on his force abilities. To those who have read the comics and the novels, you should all know exactly how powerful he is. Palps may as well be a living Force entity. And he was so powerful, that his death left a wound in the Force itself.
@@tevincollins2869 Exactly, Palpatine ran away from yoda for a reason. And Sidious didn't beat yoda with the Force either, they literally stalemated. There was a Force explosion and Sidious was able to grab something while Yoda fell. Yoda disarmed Sidious FIRST by the way and Sidious disarmed Yoda second, then clone reinforcements arrived. So what exactly was Yoda supposed to do? Continue fighting Sidious without his lightsaber and also dodge blaster fire at the same time? Ridiculous, the only choice was for Yoda to retreat to safety.
Palpatine was stronger at the force than Yoda but that didn't gave him the advantage. The entire fight was basically Palpatine fighting for survival and trying to run away from yoda. He was completely humiliated and got a lucky shot, the fight was a draw.
Interesting ideas. But I think they could have at least teamed up against Anakin, and made sure for a fact he died. And then, so Obi-Wan stays out of Yoda's way, and ensures at least one of them survives, Yoda confronts Palpatine alone. But 2v2 may not be as terrible an expected. They can still end up separating during the duel.
Obi-Wan was a highly skilled fighter and smart Jedi with the right temperament but his force power is not comparable to Darth Sidious. He wouldn’t be able to deal with the force choke, force lightning and force push like Yoda could.
I think Obi-Wan could have held his own, blade-to-blade, if the Force was flowing through him like on Mustafar. But I don't think he would've fared so well against force-based attacks. Dooku defeated him just by shoving him across the room really hard. Anakin just didn't fight like that (at least not until later, as seen in Episode V), so Obi-Wan was able to wear him down and wait for a mistake.
@@hanrockabrand95 That is the strength of Soresu. This worked well against Anakin / Vader as he was only newly anointed Sith so did not have a feel for his abilities. Sidious is top tier level duelist and force user he would have been able to circumvent Kenobi's Soresu or overwhelm it with his force abilities. Also in a 2 v1 fight Sidious would have leveraged the weaker duelist and used him to force the stronger duelist to intervene until he could strike out and would or eliminate the stronger one. He displayed that skill in SWTCW on Mandilor against Maul and Savage.
I feel like yoda had a sense of destiny and fate kind of similar to Gandalf in lotr. He couldn’t necessarily see the future perhaps but maybe he could sense some things. Like how Gandalf just knew gollum still had an important part to play. Yoda knew he must face him alone or more importantly obi wan must face anakin alone.
Yoda never would have gone with this plan, but I imagined a scenario where the two of them fought Palpatine, *expecting* Obi-wan to die. Essentially, Obi-wan helps to occupy Palpatine’s blade, Yoda attempts to counter the Sith Lord’s extreme power in the Force, and their goal is essentially to *trade* Obi-wan for Sidious. And if that had happened, if those two died, Yoda could have broadcast an open challenge, insulting Anakin, calling him a failure, saying he could never defeat Yoda, and essentially goading him into a duel Yoda could win. Again, totally out of character for Yoda, but there might have been potential.
@@wesleysmith5275 if it were MACE and Obi-wan, they might have tried it. Jedi are willing to die for the mission if necessary, and that certainly includes Obi-wan. But yeah Yoda absolutely would never have done it and would have lectured me severely for even imagining it 😅
I mean imagine this scenario, while Obi-Wan is about to duel Sidious saber to saber, Yoda is 15 meters away and has ALREADY begun choking the air out of Sidious's lungs with the entirety of his power, as Sidious attempts to close the gap to stop Yoda, Obi-wan is blocking the path to get to him with saber swings, that's checkmate. A 10-year-old autistic child would design a better strategy than the "Wise" Yoda.
I mean I think if Obiwan focused on defense, keeping Palpatine occupied, while Yoda just went to town with Force attacks they may have forced the Emperor to run but even then they wouldn’t have been able to kill him. Honestly they should have both gone after Anakin, killed him, then come up with another plan to deal with Palps. Assassination or something similar
I mean, Obi-Wan is 0-3 as a double team against Sith Lords (Maul killed his master, and Dooku easily took him out of commission when fighting alongside Anakin)…soooo
Remember that Dooku escaped due to Yoda saving both Anakin and Obi-wan. He had an even more adversary and so strategically, it may have been a tactical decison
You're assuming that the Senate, the military, or the navy would've followed Vader like that. Vader didn't have the necessary tools to keep an entire empire together. You're also failing to realize that Vader wouldn't have authorized the construction of the Death Star, so how was he going to keep entire systems from opposing him?
@@decepticonxhunter4850 I didn’t mean it like that I just said that even if yoda and obi wan were able to take down the emperor they would have to flee coruscant less they meet the same fate as the separatists council
Vader defeated Vader while Yoda failed to beat Sidious eventho Sidious already dueled a few Jedi just hours before that , while Sidious also disarmed Yoda with lightning , so no Yoda wasn't right
Don't agree that Sidious and Vader would have an edge dueling together over Yoda and Obi-Wan. There are a few important things to keep in mind when considering the possible outcome. First being, that Yoda and Obi-wan have trained together and fought together before and have had most of Obi-Wan's life to know one another's fighting style and abilities. Sidious and Vader had never fought together and never fought together much less even trained together over the many years after the empire came to power. Vader also wanted to overthrow Sidious from day one and may have jumped any opportunity to kill Sidious, even while facing an enemy. Which brings us to the next point, Sith, by nature, do not "play" well together. There are examples of this in the extended universe and in canon. Darth Vindican and Darth Malgus vs. Koa Cen Darach also Maul and Savage vs. Obi-Wan. That's two instances of lone Jedi being able to hold their own against multiple powerful dark side users. It's also important to think about fighting styles. Most dark siders use aggressive, heavy-handed fighting styles. This is especially true with figures like Vader, Malgus, and Maul. Heavy-handed fighters need space to generate the power necessary to overcome the defenses of their opponents, spacing that is very hard to come by when multiple combatants are involved. Malgus only defeated Koa Cen Darach when his master was removed from the duel. Anakin only overpowered Dooku when Obi-wan was removed from the duel and Maul put up a better fight against Sidious after Savage was removed from their duel. Because most Sith and other dark side users preferred aggressive power focused fighting styles, their Jedi counter parts were not only better fighting alongside a partner but were also better at taking on multiple enemies alone. Just to add, with all of that in mind, I think the fact that Dooku was a master of form two, that made him the ideal Sith lord in terms of combat, especially for the era. Sidious himself feared Dooku's abilities with a lightsaber.
I think at that point in obis career , he and yoda could have taken palpatine to then deal with Vader after padme successfully talks him down WITHOUT the surprise appearance of obi wan , making a anakins guard rise
This is just what happened on our time-line, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. In alternate time-lines Yoda defeats the Emporer and American Graffiti is the biggest thing Lucus ever worked on.
So basically Yoda knew Obi Wan stood a better chance of winning than him and was hoping to hold the Emperor off long enough for him to sense Anakin’s defeat and take advantage of the distraction. A good plan in theory…
I completely agree. All reasons are valid. They risked too much. They split up so they don't interfere each other. This makes sense. It was good decision. Vader and Sidious would strengthen each other. May the Force be with you too
I like to think Yoda saw Anakin as the bigger threat and sent Obiwan after him because he knew Anakin's weaknesses the best of any Jedi. We know from Revenge of the Sith that Anakin did plan to eventually betray Palpatine. Without Palpatine as a yoke, Anakin might have become one of the most destructive Sith Lords in history. Yoda probably thought he could take Palpatine on his own, or maybe it was best that they kept the two Sith Lords apart.
dooku is probaly the most proficient dulist in star wars at the time of their duel and faught yoda for a fairly long amount of time and also matched him whilst usning only the force, so before you're gunna throw shade at the best character in all of star wars do some homework lad, multiple jedi considerd obi-wan to be ther master of form three and dooku actually recognised this himelf. After all obi-wan was selected to fight general greavous for a reson. even master windu was scared to duel with greavous
I'm not going to claim Obiwan could have beaten Palpatine, but Old Ben's loss to Dooku was earlier. When these events occurred, Ben beat Anakin. Anakin killed Dooku and Anakin was even more powerful when Ben chopped-off his limbs. Chop chop chop. 💪 🦵 🤚
This definitely goes to show that the fall of mace was the fall of the muscle of the Jedi and the one true person who could defeat either of these two Sith Lords due to vapaad Coupled with Yoda they probably would have been powerful enough to stop these two but with mace gone there is nothing to Use the dark side against the dark side like Palpatine used Anakin Who was part of the light side to defeat the light side
You could arguably say that in the long term Vader was a bigger threat than Sidious as well. He was the chosen one, and a young man who definitely would've grown even more powerful than he already was, even more powerful than Palpatine. Obi-Wan could prevail against Anakin in a way maybe even Yoda could not simply because he knew Anakin's style and flaws better than anyone, and Obi's Sorensu style countered Anakin better than Yoda's Ataru.
A huge strategic misstep by Yoda. Obi Wan, Sidious, and himself knew Anakin was no longer on Coruscant and that Sidious would have been dead long before his new apprentice could rush back from Mustafar
You say that they were the finest duelists but why did they die in an instant (other than Kit Fisto or Mace Windu of course)? And also when sidious was stabbing Agen Kolar Master Tinn had the perfect opportunity to to stab sidious in the back with his lightsaber.
They were treason. As Palpatine himself said to Mace. Anakin was actually correct about Palpatine standing trial. The problem is the one time Mace could have proved the Jedi were good is the one time he went rogue, confirming in Anakin's mind the Jedi just wanted power
@@FleetAdmiral833 killing a false leader or infiltrator effectively removes treason from the case. Treason was never actually on the table, it was simply the narrative put forth by the actual master manipulator(a sith lord) Anakins actions were extremely short sighted & it displayed his lack of knowledge in the force and his impulsive nature. Mace took action 4 the good of the republic & he had full right 2. Anakin however was in no place to judge another masters actions because he broke the code himself killing the Tuscan raiders & Count doku
@@neimansmith9960 but he was the elected leader who was elected to have emergency powers. Yeah he may have been a traitor, but no doubt he had the legal system declare any act against him as 'treason'.
This makes sense because if they fought Sidious together there would also be a growing worry for the other’s wellbeing during the fight and if it seemed like Sidious was about to gain the upper hand and overwhelm one of them the other would have rushed to the other’s aid to try and save them and thus would have left them open to a fatal blow. Yoda would have been carrying the team and would be distracted and couldn’t fight with full focus if he also had to worry about Obi-Wan’s safety and if it seemed like Obi was about to die Yoda might have rushed in recklessly and Sidious would have used the opening to strike Yoda down or vice versa if Yoda was the one to seemed to be in peril. If one of them did go down it would have been a huge blow to the other’s morale and the last Jedi standing would have fallen soon after.
I think that Sidious was the culmination of a thousand years of Sith, while Yoda was the culmination of [nearly] a thousand years of Jedi. That's the main reason why Yoda only was to confront Sidious.
Y'all didn't watch the movies. Palps is not more powerful than Yoda. Yoda was winning and Sidious had to call in his army to bail him out. And Obi Wan flatly beat Anakin while holding back.
Even before I see this video, I bet it's going to be the part from the Revenge of the Sith novelization where Yoda says "Even together, a chance we may not have, but apart, a chance we might create" ... let's see if I'm right
I understand why Master Yoda decided to divide & conquer with Obi-Wan concerning Anakin and Darth Sidious. First things first, Yoda was the only Force-sensitive who could match and maybe even defeat Sidious...IF he was completely focused on doing just that. If he had Obi-Wan with him, he would quickly lose focus with Sidious trying to kill Obi-Wan since he was no match for The Dark Lord Of The Sith. THAT FIGHT would probably play out similarly to the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort towards the end of the 5th Harry Potter movie. Voldemort kept flicking residual lightning at Harry while dueling Dumbledore, which took Dumbledore's concentration a little bit. The other thing is that Obi-Wan knew Anakin probably better than Anakin knew himself, which would easily win the duel for Obi-Wan in spite of his feelings for his Padawan and not want to destroy him. I think Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to fully commit
@@mikeb53 they do, because force power isn't the most important quality to become a council member, sometimes Jedi became council members by moral character or skill in other Jedi business such as diplomat. Obi Wan was so lacking in force power he almost deny formal apprenticeship at a young age
@@chjeremy6538 obi wan is not lacking in force power dude. Far from it. Lucas himself even stated when discussing vader vs obi wan in ANH he said if vader was a 4 obi wan is a 6. I think a lot of people look at obi wan and his calm reserved demeanour and think he is weak or something and its just not the case.
@@mikeb53 that's where conflicting lore is annoying because there is a Qui Gon comic story about how Obi Wan became an apprentice despite his underwhelming Jedi talent. that's where i draw the idea Obi Wan was lacking in force power(that depends on talent aka midichlorian) but good in character, skill and achievement(defeating Maul)
@@chjeremy6538 not that this is the most popular notion among fans but 15,000 midichlorians was considered the ceiling. Sources vary but Yoda was considered to have 17,000 to 18,000. Obi wan was at 13,500. Mace was at 12,000 so obi wan had more potential than mace. And yet mace managed to beat the emperor with his vaapad style of dueling. The emperor was at 20,000 more than yoda even. So on sheer numbers obi wan definately earned his seat on the council.
If Disney can do a WHAT IF for marvel, they should do it for Star Wars. I still say Windu owned Sidious, he was overatted with his lightsaber as I remmebr reading he favored the force more than a lightsaber.
I don't really think reason #1 (Anakin might hurry back) is much of a reason. Anakin was on Mustafar. If Yoda and Obi-wan had acted swiftly, the duel would have been over, one way or another, long before Anakin returned. It does make sense that Yoda wouldn't want to try to coordinate a 2-on-1 duel with Obi-wan on such short notice. They did not have the experience to fight in sync like Qui-gon+Obi-Wan or Obi-wan+Anakin. More likely, they would have gotten in each other's way and made Sidious' job that much easier. It makes sense in a way to split up. Even if one wins and the other loses, there is still a chance to reset and reassess, while having cost the Sith half their number. Losing one member is much more costly to the Sith than to the Jedi, and there was a chance of finding other Jedi in that reset. But I think the best odds they had were to race to Mustafar and face Anakin together. So long as they got a large enough head start over Sidious (who would no doubt sense the danger to his apprentice at some point, but they had no reason to expect such a swift reaction), they could have dispatched Anakin and been able to plan for a 2-on-1 (with better preparation) against Sidious.
Form three siresu is specifically designed for this. To allow a master of form 3 to battle enemies far more powerful then themselves. So even though I'm sure obi wan would lose, I don't think it would be an instant lose. It would take at least some effort to put him down
Mace Windu was the best Jedi weapon against the Sith. Lightsaber wise..he's taking Sidious out for good. Form 7. Yoda was the 2nd best option. He was actually a better duelist than Sidious.
Another important factor, I noticed wasn't touched on fully, is balance. Using easy numbers for the example here. If there are 2 Sith and 200 Jedi, each Sith is roughly as powerful as 100 Jedi, each. Wouldn't this indicate that as the Jedi were wiped out, Yoda and Obi-Wans' strength would have increased as Palpatine and Anikin's strength weakened?
I don't think that is a question of how powerful Sidius was, the most probable thing is Yoda made a chance, by feeling the future of the force in Padme IE Luke and Leia. I doubt Yoda thought Obi would defeat Anakin, it was more about Luke. Last edit, to finalize my point, the "Padme" factor im presenting, would even make refference to "A New Hope" thanks to that desicion of not fighting both of them head on. They kept "hope" or "Luke" alive.
Video recap having not watched the video with it paused at 1 second. "Yoda thought it was dishonorable, with some more jargin about good vs evil" your welcome
Yoda knew it was over, he knew there was no way to fix what had happened at that point, but he foresaw a new hope would emerge in Anakins children. Yoda knew Obi-Wan would either kill or wound Anakin because Anakins rage blinded him and, he could never focus properly on defeating Obi-Wan. Yoda knew Anakin would be far worse than Palpatine, especially if Anakin got a hold of his kids. Yoda's plan was simple, distract Palpatine and give Obi-Wan time to do what he needed to, the comms were easily monitored so Yoda's admission of failure was part of the ruse, Palpatine was so distracted by the fight and subsequent search, that he didn't sense Vader's defeat until it was too late, and then he was so focused on that, he didn't sense the birth of the twins.
“To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not.”
-Yoda
Who is also not strong enough
@@Anderson_S17bullshit you know nothing about star wars
@@Anderson_S17Lmao far from the truth sidious fanboy
@Daron7181 I'm not a fan of either of them, but to be fair, he in fact, wasn't strong enough. He also had like 900 years to prepare and was still not strong enough
@@Anderson_S17 What are your arguments that Sidious was stronger in this duel? Yes, Sidious won overall in that he wiped out the Jedi. But he couldn’t keep up with Yoda in saber combat, using the force…? Sidious didn’t do any damage to Yoda aside from his first lightning strike. Let’s not forget Yoda’s force push in which Sidious went flying across the room. He tried to flee after that if I’m not mistaken.
Yoda was able to defend himself from the lightning strike towards the end of the duel. Unless someone can tell me info from books etc.. I don’t buy it. Sidious is overhyped.
Also, the jedi should’ve put up more of a fight against the clones. I do understand that too much of that would take away the shocking factor of Order 66 though. Still an L for Ep III in my opinion. Would’ve been more epic and yes, the jedi would still be wiped out in the end.
I’m not saying Sidious is weak. Ofc not.. but I don’t think he is as strong as Yoda.. for obvious reasons.
Also yoda is all about making you face your greatest fears. Yoda was not going to accommodate Obi wan’s reluctance to fight his brother just like how he demanded Luke kill Vader despite knowing he is his father. I also feel that because of this if yoda was at the temple when anakin revealed palpatine is sideous he would have insisted anakin join them in confronting the chancellor.
The second point you made is excellent, very sound reasoning and makes the story come full circle that Anakin would have been in that fight either way to carry out the main plot elements, just a different way around, perhaps better than the original in some ways.
I think its honestly quite simple. Yoda was better then obi wan, both in combat and sheer power in the force, he knew palpatine would have simply thrashed him easily. He pretty much says it to him
agreed, its basically explicitly said in the movie, I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from other than two are better than one argument.
@@wesleysmith5275 fabricated confusion in order to make a nonsensical theory video.
By that logic, was Obi-Wan wrong when, in Episode II, he told Anakin: "I can't take Dooku alone. I need you."? Wasn't Anakin's emotion-driven refusal to listen to Obi-Wan's instruction to "take" Dooku "together" ("No, I'm taking him now!") the very thing that cost him his arm? I simply don't buy Yoda's line of reasoning on this one. I just don't see how having the assistance of *the* master of Soresu would have been disadvantageous for Yoda -- and thus advantageous for Sidious. Seems to me the exact opposite would have been the case.
its actually really simple, yoda and windu should have went to grab palpatine. In any other story, they would have. Those two. If they would of went it would of been over for palpatine. He couldnt contend with either of them in the sword vs sword game really, other factors came into both there losses, windu anakin showing up, and yoda the senate thing rising, remember sidious goes to leave but yoda stops him, sidious didnt want to fight yoda 1v1.
@profo4544 👏 And also the fact the Palpatine was intentionally creating distance in the fight with Yoda, and had to resort to using lightning!
Another reason was given in TCW season 6. In the vision battle against Sidious, Yoda might have beaten him, but had to save Anakin. He knew that Sidious was more powerful than Obi-wan, and he might end up having to save him at the cost of a killing blow against Sidious.
Well i guess it really worked out the same in the end either way.
I still don't understand why they didn't confront Anakin together. Anakin never could have taken them both and they might have still been able to turn him at that point. All 3 of them could definitely take Palpatine
I don't think they could have turned him at that point unless they trapped him and then put him in Force rehab or something lmfao.
The thing is, Anakin was too far gone to turn back. He had already succumbed to the big failure of the Sith, which is that the Dark Side corrupts and twists your good intentions into wanting more power just for the sake of it and not using your power for the good reason you originally intended. Even if he did, Anakin wouldn't match Sidious in saber skill and would get in the way similarly to Obi Wan in the discussion, with the added worry that Sidious could somehow turn Anakin back to the Dark Side mid duel. No matter how you spin it, they were pretty fucked and the play they made was the best chance they had.
I don't think that they would have turned him, but I think that they could have easily taken him out. And I think that would have been devastating for Sidious
I think a lot of it had to do was yoda was not about coddling other Jedi’s emotional attachments. He wanted Obi wan to let go and do his duty as a jedi even if it meant killing his best friend.
Naw. Anakin was done. Nothing not even Padme was going to change him.
Anakin was like that wild friend that needed to hit rock bottom before eventually finding their way. A stubborn addict.
Mace should have called Yoda right away when Anakin told him about Palpatine.
Except, one-on-one, Mace Windu had defeated Sidious.......before Vader/Anikin back-stabbed him.
😂😂😂
I can't believe people out there STILL don't get the point to this scene.
Even Lucas has said a million times that Palpatine LET Windu get into that position as the last seduction of Anakin.
@P G you are literally a doofus. He’s actually stated the opposite. Mace Windu’s ‘Vaapad’ ability literally uses the dark side against the user. So fighting someone like Sidious would have made him super saiyin. Mace is a great duelist already, and the fact that he has a ‘counter’ ability to the dark side is also helpful. He beat sidious.
@@skyflores9827 the book explains it better than Lucas then lol. The entire galaxy wouldn’t just believe Palpatine and his voice recording. We are talking about branding all Jedi’s as traitors. You need to sell that. And Palpatine sacrificed his face on purpose. When he presented his disfigured face to the galaxy, nobody doubted the Jedi were traitors. Also, Anakin had to be the one to deal the death blow to Mace, to ensure he could never go back. Palpatine sensed Anakin coming, that’s when he ‘threw’ the fight. Palpatine had Windu dead early in the exchange, he let him go
I think Mace won the fight, I see the point of sidious using Anakin's confusion and putting him in a position where he needed to take a step to the dark side but using himself as bait for Anakin's downfall is too cunning, he is such a planner he organised a galaxy wide war he would never put himself at risk where he could have died. Maybe he saw opportunity to manipulate Anakin in that moment but I don't think he threw the fight
@@siddreddy1416 Palpatine had no idea wich jedi were being sent to arrest him, if it was Yoda + Windu you honestly think palpatine would have won ?
You make it sound like Obi-Wan’s personal failure in declining to kill Anakin (perhaps knowing the prophecy) by itself might have caused Yoda to lose to an undistracted Palpatine. It sure would have eliminated future plots.
It didn't matter, if Palpatine was undistracted or not! Palpatine was so confident about his force powers! Specifically, his force lighting! When he tried to use the full force of his force lighting and Yoda all but absorbed it and sent it back at him, he was shook. Remember, Clone troopers were coming! Palpatine knew that and Yoda did as well. If there was no Clone troopers and Yoda didn't fall from that high distant, he would have killed Palpatine. Palpatine believe no Jedi was capable of defeating him. He was almost wrong against Windu and Yoda! Windu getting betrayed by Anakin and Yoda falling from a high distant and Clone troopers coming to aid Palpatine.
Obi let the force decide his fate
Dark Helmet put it best: "now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Genius 🤣
What? No! Impossible! This is outrageous! It's unfair!
Best line ever 😂.. did anyone else ever notice that dark helmet had a Jamaican accent some times😭
@@erostheelder6831 What's with you, man? 😆
😂😂😂
"To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, your are not!" - Yoda in Revenge of the Sith. Obi-Won couldn't handle Dooku, but it's weird he was able to maim Anakin. Anyway, its sci-fi, not realy. Oh, and Mace beat Sidious fair-and-square.
Obi vs Anakin made sense because Obiwan knew all of Anakin's moves from years of training together.
Obi wan knew what Anakin was capable of. They trained together for over a decade
It's not weird. He knew all of Anakin's strengths, flaws, and tendencies, especially the fact that Anakin's hubris led him to make costly mistakes. While Dooku was fairly cocky himself, he didn't allow it to make him a sloppy duelist like Anakin did.
Obviously Obi-Wan had no chance against Palpatine given quickly he took out three other masters with Windu.
I think that it would’ve been more complicated than that. One of the main reasons the Jedi were taken out so quickly was surprise. Palpatine attacked very fast and took them by surprise and only mace windu and kit fisto, who were the last to be attacked survived more than one strike. Is obi wan was one of the first to be attacked, then yeah, he probably would have died. But since obi wan’s entire dueling strategy was focused on defence, I think that he could have survived a lot longer.
Unless he had the high ground
Very unlikely palptinw would even draw his lightsaber against Obi wan. He would probably simply kill him via the force.
@@Angry_Peanut_52 not if you are the Senate and use the Senate as a weapon
Obi Wan defeated Anakin/Vader. He would have helped Windu subdue Palpatine.
I imagine Palpatine looking for the first opening he could get to take out Obi-Wan and then focusing on Yoda. Yoda didn't want to lose Obi-Wan and knew he would probably stand a much better chance against Anakin, who he had trained and been on missions with.
Wow…. 2:40 I’ve never seen that picture or art work of Vader before! That’s my new favorite! 😎
Yeah it really reminds you that starwars is closer to DND than cyberpunk. Thats just a spell blade/Hexblade by any other name :p
It's A good thing. I don't think Obi-Wan would've been able to go toe to toe with Sidious.
Everyone discounts obi wan but he’s a smart Jedi!
@@YonnyGoldFella So was Kit Fisto
@@YonnyGoldFella Obi-wan couldn't even take Dooku. Yoda had the skills to kill Sidious, but Sidious had the high ground in the senate chamber. Also if Yoda hadn't dropped his lightsaber I believe that Sidious would've died.
@@lizardC549 Yoda had his lightsaber but could not handle the lightning which is why he dropped it , it happened once could have happened if Yoda had another light saber, saying that 'if he didn't drop his lightsaber' is dumb, by this logic 'if Windu doesn't block the lightning then he is fried' , it doesn't work like that
@@davidkosiba624 Yoda disarmed Sidious period therefore Sidious fell back on using the force. Regardless of how Yoda dropped his lightsaber, he still dropped it, Mace didn't. If it wasn't for Anakin betraying him he would've killed him unless Sidious jumped out the window. Therefore we can conclude that if Yoda didn't drop his lightsaber and blocked it like Mace did while factoring in the distance between the the two, Sidious most likely would've died that day unless some unforeseen circumstance occurred. Next time think before you type.
I do believe that Sidious would have simply used the force to overcome Obi-Wan. I recall hearing once source that says Jedi and Sith sometimes only draw their lightsabers if they are relatively equal in the force. Sidious was much stronger in the force then Obi Wan and was even the one to overcome his force shield on the invisible hand, allowing Dooku to push and choke him. He'd simply overcome Obi Wan's shield then zap him with lightning and disable him or something like that then deal with Yoda.
Obi wan was "The" Master of Form 3 Soresu He mastered it to The highest level where no matter the opponent he was able to Deflect or block any kind of attacks Lightsaber or blaster bolt He was that skilled however having said that I think Obi wan could hold out against Sidious for a While but not Forever Because Sidious was Way too Aggressive and More powerful for Obi wan While i thihk he could definitely hold his own and Go Toe to toe with him for a Short period I dont think he Alone would be able to overcome sidious
100% agree with you
Dooku says otherwise
@@davidkosiba624 absolutely......
People give Kenobi way too much credit.
I imagined a scenario where Obi-wan always stayed close to Sidious and fought very defensively, dividing Palpatine’s attention, while Yoda tried to counter the Emperor’s Force powers which easily could have overwhelmed Obi-wan. It would still be unlikely that they could defeat Palpatine and both survive, but if either of them *did* survive killing the emperor, that one could likely defeat Anakin
@Christopher Gillette in this scenario it most likely would have been Yoda He was Just way too Powerful and strong with the force Somewhat even EQUAL to Palpatine in Force abilities He was 870 Years old The Most wisest Knowledgable Gifted and Skilled Jedi Masters in the Entire Galaxy He Taught Many Apprentices Most Notable is Mace Windu Who was the only one Who Defeated Palpatine Lightsaber to Lightsaber Thats because of Mace being a Darkisde Practitioner and Him creating his own "Sith Kryptonite" Lightsaber form Etc etc And He was Taught directly From the Right hand of Yoda Himself so if Mace could do it i truly believe Yoda could too It would be yoda 💯
It's like you said, there's no point in sending Obi-Wan to fight Sidious. He's hard enough for Yoda to fight on his own without having to worry about protecting Obi-Wan.
But they probably should've just double-teamed Anakin and then worried about Sidious later. Unlike Obi-Wan, Yoda would've actually killed Anakin and rid the galaxy of Vader at least. Sure, Sidious would still be around, but it would be a pretty big loss for the Empire.
Palpatine would have sensed Anakin was in danger and go save him making it 2v2 which is established to be a suicide mission.
Palpatine needed a distraction hence why Yoda needed to duel him.
@@petelee2477Yoda and Obi-Wan together should be able to kill Anakin before Sidious gets there
Yoda disarmed Sidious. In my opinion he bested yet another opponent in single combat solidifying him as the best swordsman of all time.
I always viewed the Yoda/Sidious battle as a stalemate, but it was battle Yoda needed to win.
Yoda and mace are equal swordmen in my mind, but Yoda is stronger and more knowledgeable in the living force and force powers.
@the_endgame7715 remember when Obi-Wan told Anakin he could rival Master Yoda as a swordman? No mention of Mace lol. Nuff said!
yeah, sidious did not want to fight yoda its a fact, remember when sidious trys to leave ? yoda doesnt let him. Part of the reason why is, originally sidious underestimated yoda and all the jedi, but when he heard dooku used forced lightning and yoda caught it, and sent it back at dooku, sidious got worried he was pretty shook, so was dooku. Dooku was trained by yoda though, people forget that. But sidious up untill then thought the jedi were way weaker then they were, and when yoda did that sidious was actually convinced yoda might have mastered both the dark, and the light side dooku was convinced yoda studied the dark side from that moment, him and sidious. So Sidious didnt want to fight yoda 1v1, that was not something he wanted to do lol and got very lucky the arena was where it went down.
I see it differently. Yoda v sidious in lightsabre was a stalemate. Sidious knew this. So he went with the force. Yoda kept trying to turn it back to sabres cos that was his only chance. Once yoda lost his sabre, his chance had gone. Sidious v yoda in the force was only going to be a sidious win. Thats why yoda ran, cos he was dead if he didnt
Here's a potential topic for a future video: did the destruction of Alderaan create any wounds in the force like the ones created at Malachor V? To my knowledge, far more people lost their lives on Alderaan to the Death Star than at Malachor V to the mass shadow generator, yet all I've heard about the destruction of Alderaan is that it created a disturbance or ripple in the force. Were there extra factors at Malachor V that contributed to the creation of wounds in the force that weren't present on Alderaan, was it something else, or do we simply not have enough information to make this comparison?
Only thing I could go off of here is the two different versions of the force. Living force and cosmic. You end a major amount of living force would only be a blink in the cosmic or if you would a ripple. I'm not saying anything forsure kinda just trying to believe my own bs at this point.
I do find it interesting that Yoda was hoping for Obi-Wan to best Anakin during his own duel with Sidious, when you consider that hyper-drives aren't instantaneous travel.
Obi-Wan would have to discover Anakin's location AND travel there while all Yoda had to do was travel to the Senate building on the same planet.
When you think about it, Yoda's plan pretty much involved him waiting around on Coruscant for quite some time, all the while knowing that the Jedi were being hunted and likely he himself was being searched for.
That’s actually really weird to think about. Obi wan talks to Padme and everything while Yoda is fighting sidious
@@Sir-Seaniel I think its just a general trait of sci-fi to forget that their own established forms of travel takes time. Its rare to see outright instant teleportation being the means of travel so you'd expect there to be some time involved at least.
If there's one Jedi who could hide without sweating in the middle of the empire it would have been Yoda to be fair
@@hoozoohleague8264 Nope, Yoda wehtn to Dagoba because the force cave there would hide his force projection from Vader and Sidious. He clearly could not hide from Sidious. This is just lazy writing. They just ignored that Obi-Wan's travel to Mustafar would take a while.
@@FernandoHernandez-jw4yy Can you help me to understand what Yoda going to dagobah has to do with the topic being discussed ?
I agree. You clearly see it in Episode 1 with Quigon & Obi -Wan vs Darth Moul that the two were getting in each others way and Obi Wan once had to duck from Jinn's swing of the light saber. In the beginning, Obi-wan was more mindful as yoda encouraged him to be and after Quigon's death he was more defiant like he was but still listined Yoda and Jedi Council and they knew things were getting serious with Sith Lord around. And things got more intense in Episode 2. Anakin was impulsive to try to take Dooku alone instead together. As Yoda said, " Only a jedi with the force as his ally can conquer Vader and his Emperor".
and in clone wars obi wan and adi gallia vs maul and savage opress. its like obi wan is holding back the whole time because he is with another master, but when she dies he picks up her saber dual wields and beats maul and opress back into retreat.
@christopherlahart184 I have to disagree, Maul only gained the upper hand and was able to defeat Qui-Gon once he separated Qbi-wan from the duel and could fight the Jedi one v one. Maul himself said that as the duel was unfolding that he felt the force was favoring the Jedi. Qui-Gon, being older and using an aggressive lightsaber form was running out of gas, allowing Maul to take advantage. Had Obi-wan been able to rejoin the duel with his master, this wouldn't have happened.
Moul
@@catmandu6776 I believe that's one of the factors, but not main one. I noticed Qui-Gon sweating in the Force Field as was Maul during their short break from fighting. Maul as a species was probly younger and faster than Qui-Gon as he was older as a human Jedi. I agree if both Jedis were still fighting Maul, he would've eventually been defeated.
"To fight this lord Sidious strong enough you are not" - does this even need explaining, it was literally the line in the movie.
Yoda knew that Obi-Wan couldn't defeat the Emperor 1v1 and Yoda himself knew he was more powerful than Kenobi himself so he saw more of a chance of defeating Sidious himself.
Anakin at this point was also incredibly powerful, certainly more powerful than Obi-Wan, but the advantage that Kenobi had here was that he was Anakin's master, he trained him and knew his moves, so he had the best chance to defeat him.
A very simple explanation.
They had different styles
Doesn't answer the question why not stick together. The video didn't answer the question either
GL stated that Mace beat Sidious* fair and square, that's canon right there bud if their ever was
@@tortureddesert3453 "Mace beat Windu" 🤣🤣💀
@@tortureddesert3453The thing is. Pre order 66 palpatine is weaker than post order 66 palpatine. Due to the shift in the force Palpatine got stronger. The Palpatine that Yoda fought was stronger than the Palpatine that mace fought. Since Yoda was able to stalemate this palpatine he would’ve been able to beat the same one Mace did
If you have ever fought a group of ppl you get they get in each other's way. Nobody is 100%,
And Yoda Blocks him off after saying it oh crap!!! He tried to run to Anikan😮
Maybe Yoda had foreseen the events of the original trilogy, and he knew how important Obi-Wan would become
Really appreciate these vids... stay on this OG and Legends stuff...... ❤❤❤
Reminder of How strong Mace actually is, able to defeat palps while 3 other top tier dualist were cut down in seconds. Obi wan and yoda agreaing they could not defeat palps together. Yoda stalemating palps.
Conclusion: Mace Windu > all Sith and Jedi
I mean Windu had 3 others with him, so we can't quite say windu alone is better than sidious. It was an uneven fight. When anakin turned up windu got his just desserts.
So if Kenobi and Yoda showed up to confront Palpatine, you think he would call Vader from across the galaxy to help him to defeat them both? So where are Kenobi and Yoda during that? Having a cup of tea with Palpatine while they waited? Lol. When Yoda showed up to confront Palpatine, he didn't have time to even dial 911 and drop the phone on the ground. Lol. Didn't think that one through did ya?
This could have been a much shorter clip: If they'd written Obi-Wan and Yoda going after Palatine, they'd have ended him.
Obviously that can't happen in the prequels.
Logic would dictate they'd obviously go together.
Please, obi wan would have been slain very quickly. Yoda kept trying to turn it into a lightsabre duel also because he knew that, force v force, sidious wins
I can understand that's why Yoda would not let Obi-Wan help him fight Palpatine. Knowing how powerful he is, Obi-Wan likely would have died. Yoda was only able to match Palpatine for a short while. While they're both equal in terms of lightsaber skills, Palpatine is more Adept at using force abilities. Which is why during his duel against Yoda, he tried to put as much distance between him and the former as possible. He may have been able to use his lightsabers in the past, but he still relies on his force abilities. To those who have read the comics and the novels, you should all know exactly how powerful he is. Palps may as well be a living Force entity. And he was so powerful, that his death left a wound in the Force itself.
Disagree yoda was better at lightsaber combo sidious was trying get west from yoda the entire time to use force abilities and the environment
@@tevincollins2869 Agreed.
@@tevincollins2869 Exactly, Palpatine ran away from yoda for a reason. And Sidious didn't beat yoda with the Force either, they literally stalemated. There was a Force explosion and Sidious was able to grab something while Yoda fell. Yoda disarmed Sidious FIRST by the way and Sidious disarmed Yoda second, then clone reinforcements arrived. So what exactly was Yoda supposed to do? Continue fighting Sidious without his lightsaber and also dodge blaster fire at the same time? Ridiculous, the only choice was for Yoda to retreat to safety.
Palpatine was stronger at the force than Yoda but that didn't gave him the advantage. The entire fight was basically Palpatine fighting for survival and trying to run away from yoda. He was completely humiliated and got a lucky shot, the fight was a draw.
@@pedroroque829 Absolutely right on the money with that comment.
Yoga refused because the script demanded it.
Interesting ideas. But I think they could have at least teamed up against Anakin, and made sure for a fact he died. And then, so Obi-Wan stays out of Yoda's way, and ensures at least one of them survives, Yoda confronts Palpatine alone. But 2v2 may not be as terrible an expected. They can still end up separating during the duel.
Obi-Wan was a highly skilled fighter and smart Jedi with the right temperament but his force power is not comparable to Darth Sidious. He wouldn’t be able to deal with the force choke, force lightning and force push like Yoda could.
I love this video. You should do breakdowns of star wars episodes and movies too...
Interesting explanation would Obi Wans Soresu hold up against palatine's Juyo?
I think Obi-Wan could have held his own, blade-to-blade, if the Force was flowing through him like on Mustafar. But I don't think he would've fared so well against force-based attacks. Dooku defeated him just by shoving him across the room really hard. Anakin just didn't fight like that (at least not until later, as seen in Episode V), so Obi-Wan was able to wear him down and wait for a mistake.
@@hanrockabrand95 That is the strength of Soresu. This worked well against Anakin / Vader as he was only newly anointed Sith so did not have a feel for his abilities. Sidious is top tier level duelist and force user he would have been able to circumvent Kenobi's Soresu or overwhelm it with his force abilities. Also in a 2 v1 fight Sidious would have leveraged the weaker duelist and used him to force the stronger duelist to intervene until he could strike out and would or eliminate the stronger one. He displayed that skill in SWTCW on Mandilor against Maul and Savage.
I feel like yoda had a sense of destiny and fate kind of similar to Gandalf in lotr. He couldn’t necessarily see the future perhaps but maybe he could sense some things. Like how Gandalf just knew gollum still had an important part to play. Yoda knew he must face him alone or more importantly obi wan must face anakin alone.
Yoda never would have gone with this plan, but I imagined a scenario where the two of them fought Palpatine, *expecting* Obi-wan to die. Essentially, Obi-wan helps to occupy Palpatine’s blade, Yoda attempts to counter the Sith Lord’s extreme power in the Force, and their goal is essentially to *trade* Obi-wan for Sidious. And if that had happened, if those two died, Yoda could have broadcast an open challenge, insulting Anakin, calling him a failure, saying he could never defeat Yoda, and essentially goading him into a duel Yoda could win. Again, totally out of character for Yoda, but there might have been potential.
Thats a very sith plan for the Jedi, imo.
@@wesleysmith5275 if it were MACE and Obi-wan, they might have tried it. Jedi are willing to die for the mission if necessary, and that certainly includes Obi-wan. But yeah Yoda absolutely would never have done it and would have lectured me severely for even imagining it 😅
Imagining Yoda broadcasting himself talking shit about Anakin is a hilarious mental image
@@roronoalaw7772 😂
I mean imagine this scenario, while Obi-Wan is about to duel Sidious saber to saber, Yoda is 15 meters away and has ALREADY begun choking the air out of Sidious's lungs with the entirety of his power, as Sidious attempts to close the gap to stop Yoda, Obi-wan is blocking the path to get to him with saber swings, that's checkmate. A 10-year-old autistic child would design a better strategy than the "Wise" Yoda.
Man seeing these videos makes me miss the old Star Wars even more
I mean I think if Obiwan focused on defense, keeping Palpatine occupied, while Yoda just went to town with Force attacks they may have forced the Emperor to run but even then they wouldn’t have been able to kill him. Honestly they should have both gone after Anakin, killed him, then come up with another plan to deal with Palps. Assassination or something similar
I mean, Obi-Wan is 0-3 as a double team against Sith Lords (Maul killed his master, and Dooku easily took him out of commission when fighting alongside Anakin)…soooo
Yoda should have fight first Palpatine and then Vader for his own. He probably would have had a better chance to turn Anakin than Obi Wan.
Obi Wans Defensive form III, would be Saran Wrap to Sidious!
In the book he said Obi-Wan wouldn’t ever be strong enough to beat Sidious
Remember that Dooku escaped due to Yoda saving both Anakin and Obi-wan.
He had an even more adversary and so strategically, it may have been a tactical decison
They should’ve both went against Anakin them farther Sirius
Even if the Jedi were able to take down the emperor but they wouldn’t be able to rest of the galaxy from the grip of a fully powered Vader
You're assuming that the Senate, the military, or the navy would've followed Vader like that. Vader didn't have the necessary tools to keep an entire empire together. You're also failing to realize that Vader wouldn't have authorized the construction of the Death Star, so how was he going to keep entire systems from opposing him?
@@decepticonxhunter4850 I didn’t mean it like that I just said that even if yoda and obi wan were able to take down the emperor they would have to flee coruscant less they meet the same fate as the separatists council
"why did he refuse" ill take "plot armor" for 500 alex
Bad for Obi-Wan it would go, enough high ground there was not
Mace Windu defeated Sidious. Anakin attacked Mace.
Kind of makes sense. Sidious was almost defeated by Yoda.
Yoda was right: Obi-Wan did defeat Vader, and Yoda did disarm Sidious
Vader defeated Vader while Yoda failed to beat Sidious eventho Sidious already dueled a few Jedi just hours before that , while Sidious also disarmed Yoda with lightning , so no Yoda wasn't right
@@davidkosiba624 sidious and Yoda fought to a stalemate if you remember. Sidious was hanging on to a pole and Yoda fell. thats a stalemate.
Don't agree that Sidious and Vader would have an edge dueling together over Yoda and Obi-Wan. There are a few important things to keep in mind when considering the possible outcome.
First being, that Yoda and Obi-wan have trained together and fought together before and have had most of Obi-Wan's life to know one another's fighting style and abilities. Sidious and Vader had never fought together and never fought together much less even trained together over the many years after the empire came to power. Vader also wanted to overthrow Sidious from day one and may have jumped any opportunity to kill Sidious, even while facing an enemy.
Which brings us to the next point, Sith, by nature, do not "play" well together. There are examples of this in the extended universe and in canon. Darth Vindican and Darth Malgus vs. Koa Cen Darach also Maul and Savage vs. Obi-Wan. That's two instances of lone Jedi being able to hold their own against multiple powerful dark side users.
It's also important to think about fighting styles. Most dark siders use aggressive, heavy-handed fighting styles. This is especially true with figures like Vader, Malgus, and Maul. Heavy-handed fighters need space to generate the power necessary to overcome the defenses of their opponents, spacing that is very hard to come by when multiple combatants are involved. Malgus only defeated Koa Cen Darach when his master was removed from the duel. Anakin only overpowered Dooku when Obi-wan was removed from the duel and Maul put up a better fight against Sidious after Savage was removed from their duel.
Because most Sith and other dark side users preferred aggressive power focused fighting styles, their Jedi counter parts were not only better fighting alongside a partner but were also better at taking on multiple enemies alone.
Just to add, with all of that in mind, I think the fact that Dooku was a master of form two, that made him the ideal Sith lord in terms of combat, especially for the era. Sidious himself feared Dooku's abilities with a lightsaber.
I think at that point in obis career , he and yoda could have taken palpatine to then deal with Vader after padme successfully talks him down WITHOUT the surprise appearance of obi wan , making a anakins guard rise
This is just what happened on our time-line, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. In alternate time-lines Yoda defeats the Emporer and American Graffiti is the biggest thing Lucus ever worked on.
I think the force likes kenobi more
Wanted all the credit for himself Yoda did! 😂
So basically Yoda knew Obi Wan stood a better chance of winning than him and was hoping to hold the Emperor off long enough for him to sense Anakin’s defeat and take advantage of the distraction. A good plan in theory…
I completely agree. All reasons are valid. They risked too much. They split up so they don't interfere each other. This makes sense. It was good decision. Vader and Sidious would strengthen each other. May the Force be with you too
1:44 that fuckin smile gets me every tims
I like to think Yoda saw Anakin as the bigger threat and sent Obiwan after him because he knew Anakin's weaknesses the best of any Jedi. We know from Revenge of the Sith that Anakin did plan to eventually betray Palpatine. Without Palpatine as a yoke, Anakin might have become one of the most destructive Sith Lords in history.
Yoda probably thought he could take Palpatine on his own, or maybe it was best that they kept the two Sith Lords apart.
Obi-wan couldn't even take dooku 💀 yoda saved his life lmao
dooku is probaly the most proficient dulist in star wars at the time of their duel and faught yoda for a fairly long amount of time and also matched him whilst usning only the force, so before you're gunna throw shade at the best character in all of star wars do some homework lad, multiple jedi considerd obi-wan to be ther master of form three and dooku actually recognised this himelf. After all obi-wan was selected to fight general greavous for a reson. even master windu was scared to duel with greavous
That was pre clone war Obi wan, even though he was still bested by Dooku at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith
@@EdStuart-pj6mn Calm down fanboy , Obi-Wan is not even close to being the best written character lol
I'm not going to claim Obiwan could have beaten Palpatine, but Old Ben's loss to Dooku was earlier. When these events occurred, Ben beat Anakin. Anakin killed Dooku and Anakin was even more powerful when Ben chopped-off his limbs.
Chop chop chop.
💪 🦵 🤚
@@gregd4391 But he'd forgotten his most powerful limb of all ... His HEAD 💀
This definitely goes to show that the fall of mace was the fall of the muscle of the Jedi and the one true person who could defeat either of these two Sith Lords due to vapaad Coupled with Yoda they probably would have been powerful enough to stop these two but with mace gone there is nothing to Use the dark side against the dark side like Palpatine used Anakin Who was part of the light side to defeat the light side
Sidious didn't defeat Windu! Windu was betrayed!
🤡
You could arguably say that in the long term Vader was a bigger threat than Sidious as well. He was the chosen one, and a young man who definitely would've grown even more powerful than he already was, even more powerful than Palpatine. Obi-Wan could prevail against Anakin in a way maybe even Yoda could not simply because he knew Anakin's style and flaws better than anyone, and Obi's Sorensu style countered Anakin better than Yoda's Ataru.
Yoda mastered all 7 styles though. Plus his raw force power
A huge strategic misstep by Yoda. Obi Wan, Sidious, and himself knew Anakin was no longer on Coruscant and that Sidious would have been dead long before his new apprentice could rush back from Mustafar
"Strong enough to face Lord Sidious, you will never be. Die, you would. And painfully."
You say that they were the finest duelists but why did they die in an instant (other than Kit Fisto or Mace Windu of course)? And also when sidious was stabbing Agen Kolar Master Tinn had the perfect opportunity to to stab sidious in the back with his lightsaber.
I believe that without anakin stepping in mace would have destroyed sideous. Problem was, he was manipulated into thinking mace's actions were treason
They were treason. As Palpatine himself said to Mace. Anakin was actually correct about Palpatine standing trial. The problem is the one time Mace could have proved the Jedi were good is the one time he went rogue, confirming in Anakin's mind the Jedi just wanted power
@@FleetAdmiral833 killing a false leader or infiltrator effectively removes treason from the case. Treason was never actually on the table, it was simply the narrative put forth by the actual master manipulator(a sith lord)
Anakins actions were extremely short sighted & it displayed his lack of knowledge in the force and his impulsive nature. Mace took action 4 the good of the republic & he had full right 2. Anakin however was in no place to judge another masters actions because he broke the code himself killing the Tuscan raiders & Count doku
@@neimansmith9960 but he was the elected leader who was elected to have emergency powers. Yeah he may have been a traitor, but no doubt he had the legal system declare any act against him as 'treason'.
This makes sense because if they fought Sidious together there would also be a growing worry for the other’s wellbeing during the fight and if it seemed like Sidious was about to gain the upper hand and overwhelm one of them the other would have rushed to the other’s aid to try and save them and thus would have left them open to a fatal blow. Yoda would have been carrying the team and would be distracted and couldn’t fight with full focus if he also had to worry about Obi-Wan’s safety and if it seemed like Obi was about to die Yoda might have rushed in recklessly and Sidious would have used the opening to strike Yoda down or vice versa if Yoda was the one to seemed to be in peril. If one of them did go down it would have been a huge blow to the other’s morale and the last Jedi standing would have fallen soon after.
Obi-Wan is always an obstacle to any of his Jedi fellas when dueling with the Sith lord.
First of all,Yoda wouldve dispatched Anakin quickly. Second of all,Palpatine wouldve ran away from the fight. Either way,they werent beating Yoda.
That last point is also why the Jedi were hiding from the Sith Triumvirate of Sion, Traya, and Nihlus in KOTOR 2
The complete fruition of Darth Banes grand plan.
I think that Sidious was the culmination of a thousand years of Sith, while Yoda was the culmination of [nearly] a thousand years of Jedi. That's the main reason why Yoda only was to confront Sidious.
I think Obiwan gets taken down but while we does yoda simultaneously strikes sidious quickly from behind
Y'all didn't watch the movies. Palps is not more powerful than Yoda. Yoda was winning and Sidious had to call in his army to bail him out. And Obi Wan flatly beat Anakin while holding back.
Even before I see this video, I bet it's going to be the part from the Revenge of the Sith novelization where Yoda says "Even together, a chance we may not have, but apart, a chance we might create" ... let's see if I'm right
I understand why Master Yoda decided to divide & conquer with Obi-Wan concerning Anakin and Darth Sidious. First things first, Yoda was the only Force-sensitive who could match and maybe even defeat Sidious...IF he was completely focused on doing just that. If he had Obi-Wan with him, he would quickly lose focus with Sidious trying to kill Obi-Wan since he was no match for The Dark Lord Of The Sith. THAT FIGHT would probably play out similarly to the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort towards the end of the 5th Harry Potter movie. Voldemort kept flicking residual lightning at Harry while dueling Dumbledore, which took Dumbledore's concentration a little bit. The other thing is that Obi-Wan knew Anakin probably better than Anakin knew himself, which would easily win the duel for Obi-Wan in spite of his feelings for his Padawan and not want to destroy him. I think Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to fully commit
given Obi-Wan's force power is on the lower end of the Jedi master, Palpatine would just one shot him with the force
Obi Wan was on the Jedi council... they don't allow low end Jedi Masters on the Jedi Council dude.
@@mikeb53 they do, because force power isn't the most important quality to become a council member, sometimes Jedi became council members by moral character or skill in other Jedi business such as diplomat. Obi Wan was so lacking in force power he almost deny formal apprenticeship at a young age
@@chjeremy6538 obi wan is not lacking in force power dude. Far from it. Lucas himself even stated when discussing vader vs obi wan in ANH he said if vader was a 4 obi wan is a 6. I think a lot of people look at obi wan and his calm reserved demeanour and think he is weak or something and its just not the case.
@@mikeb53 that's where conflicting lore is annoying because there is a Qui Gon comic story about how Obi Wan became an apprentice despite his underwhelming Jedi talent. that's where i draw the idea Obi Wan was lacking in force power(that depends on talent aka midichlorian) but good in character, skill and achievement(defeating Maul)
@@chjeremy6538 not that this is the most popular notion among fans but 15,000 midichlorians was considered the ceiling. Sources vary but Yoda was considered to have 17,000 to 18,000. Obi wan was at 13,500. Mace was at 12,000 so obi wan had more potential than mace. And yet mace managed to beat the emperor with his vaapad style of dueling. The emperor was at 20,000 more than yoda even. So on sheer numbers obi wan definately earned his seat on the council.
Force ghost Qui-Gon had Yoda delivering the final blow at 5 to 1 odds. He couldn’t risk Obi-Wan ruining his bet.
What about Yoda taking on Anikin & Sidious against Obi Wan?
Obi-Wan would only serve as distraction to Yoda, as his chances against Sidious were slim and Yoda would probably try protecting him
If Disney can do a WHAT IF for marvel, they should do it for Star Wars. I still say Windu owned Sidious, he was overatted with his lightsaber as I remmebr reading he favored the force more than a lightsaber.
‘Vader and Sidious united would be too much for anyone, even the Grandmaster and Master Jedi Obi Wan’
Luke: so that was a lie
Love the videos
Yoda wanted all the XP
I don't really think reason #1 (Anakin might hurry back) is much of a reason. Anakin was on Mustafar. If Yoda and Obi-wan had acted swiftly, the duel would have been over, one way or another, long before Anakin returned.
It does make sense that Yoda wouldn't want to try to coordinate a 2-on-1 duel with Obi-wan on such short notice. They did not have the experience to fight in sync like Qui-gon+Obi-Wan or Obi-wan+Anakin. More likely, they would have gotten in each other's way and made Sidious' job that much easier.
It makes sense in a way to split up. Even if one wins and the other loses, there is still a chance to reset and reassess, while having cost the Sith half their number. Losing one member is much more costly to the Sith than to the Jedi, and there was a chance of finding other Jedi in that reset.
But I think the best odds they had were to race to Mustafar and face Anakin together. So long as they got a large enough head start over Sidious (who would no doubt sense the danger to his apprentice at some point, but they had no reason to expect such a swift reaction), they could have dispatched Anakin and been able to plan for a 2-on-1 (with better preparation) against Sidious.
Form three siresu is specifically designed for this. To allow a master of form 3 to battle enemies far more powerful then themselves. So even though I'm sure obi wan would lose, I don't think it would be an instant lose. It would take at least some effort to put him down
Two against one is a better advance but master Yoda is so powerful as a Judi master so quick
Yoda only saw 1 way.
To save The Jedi order.
Plot aside, I'd have loved to see Anakin and Sidious duel. That would have simply been epic.
Mace Windu was the best Jedi weapon against the Sith. Lightsaber wise..he's taking Sidious out for good. Form 7.
Yoda was the 2nd best option. He was actually a better duelist than Sidious.
And sand obi one cuz that like father finger to fight anakin skywalker talk to him try it doesn’t matter king plagues wise coming
Ok, so basically the Nash Equilibrium
Another important factor, I noticed wasn't touched on fully, is balance.
Using easy numbers for the example here.
If there are 2 Sith and 200 Jedi, each Sith is roughly as powerful as 100 Jedi, each. Wouldn't this indicate that as the Jedi were wiped out, Yoda and Obi-Wans' strength would have increased as Palpatine and Anikin's strength weakened?
I don't think that is a question of how powerful Sidius was, the most probable thing is Yoda made a chance, by feeling the future of the force in Padme IE Luke and Leia. I doubt Yoda thought Obi would defeat Anakin, it was more about Luke.
Last edit, to finalize my point, the "Padme" factor im presenting, would even make refference to "A New Hope" thanks to that desicion of not fighting both of them head on. They kept "hope" or "Luke" alive.
Video recap having not watched the video with it paused at 1 second. "Yoda thought it was dishonorable, with some more jargin about good vs evil" your welcome
U r right. Anakin would have sensed Palpatine in trouble and not having the teaching on how to save his wife. He would have come and protected sidious
I disagree if they had teamed up they coulda be taken both dark lords. This decision was done because of the plot of Star Wars.
Yoda: Let’s take Padme’s ship, don’t let her come along, kill Anakin, circle back and kill the emperor.
Yoda knew it was over, he knew there was no way to fix what had happened at that point, but he foresaw a new hope would emerge in Anakins children. Yoda knew Obi-Wan would either kill or wound Anakin because Anakins rage blinded him and, he could never focus properly on defeating Obi-Wan. Yoda knew Anakin would be far worse than Palpatine, especially if Anakin got a hold of his kids.
Yoda's plan was simple, distract Palpatine and give Obi-Wan time to do what he needed to, the comms were easily monitored so Yoda's admission of failure was part of the ruse, Palpatine was so distracted by the fight and subsequent search, that he didn't sense Vader's defeat until it was too late, and then he was so focused on that, he didn't sense the birth of the twins.