I love civil convo.... great stuff guys..this is how two intelligent chaps duke it out ... nobody loses and both look like stellar fans and able to disagree without tipping over the set. Awesome.
@@canefan17 I know this is a bit of an old post and reply, but this is incorrect; and arguably the opposite. He went to Haney to chase after performance consistency and to preserve his knee and back issues. His distance, particularly with long irons and off the tee, set him apart thanks to his speed and timing. But speed and timing are at the cost of high maintenance and low consistency. Tiger will give up winning 1 time by 15 shots to win 15 times by 1 shot; which is what he wanted to do with Hank (and technically it worked).
If Tiger had stayed with Butch, they would've said Tiger's success was due to Butch. I think that hurt his ego. So he left, in order to prove he could win without him.
Also, when nobilo says Tervino was one of the best ball strikers ever, that is true but like brandel says his grip, takeaway, and downswing was not what tiger is doing. You can't have that much shaft lean and swing inside out while getting stuck! Trevino reversed everything, shut club face going back, outside the dropped it in (while having open stance) then held the face off if not trying to open it before/during impact. Tiger is trying to do too many things with all his tendencies, swaying and dropping. Too many things to time at 39 years old and 3 swing changes later. Chipping is just a symtom of stress.
As I have gotten older, I’m starting to appreciate the knowledge and work Brandal does, even though his pro days were minimal. He was spot on about this with Tiger here. When Tiger came back from back surgery, it was more of a natural swing. I wish Tiger were in his younger days with that swing post Butch era.
Ah... the good old days when the analysts used to debate Tiger's swing after every round. I've never been a huge fan of Brandel but he WAS right here. Tiger did play some good golf with the Foley swing but it didn't last too long and it's clear it was all tied to the worsening of his back, too.
Wow rather you like Brandel or not he was spot on. Had an instructor introduce this very swing concept to me at the and it was the worst advice I ever accepted in this sport. About the only thing this is good for is your short irons as I admit you will pick up distance on wedges and short irons. The mid irons you will also pick up some distance but you begin lose accuracy. By the time I got to my long irons I did not know were the ball was going and my 5 iron was not going any further than my 6 iron and my 4 iron was maybe 5 yards longer. Next my 3 wood gave me a lot of roll but would not go any higher than 9 or 10 feet and that is being generous. I lost at least 50 yards with my driver and could not control the distance with my 56 and 60 degree wedge around the green. The worst part is my scores jumped into the low 90's. The teacher told me that I needed to be fit for my clubs. Thank goodness I had adjustable driver, wood and hybrid so that was no problem but I did buy a new iron set only to see it get worse. Maybe a month later, what do you know? I had back problems just like Brandel said and had to go to the chiropractor. Just so happened the chiropractor was a golfer and advised me to get away from this guy and cut my loses. I cannot believe there are instructors out there teaching this nonsense but I blame no one by myself. I felt real silly but If TIGER got duped then it could happen to any of us.
Brandel is exactly right...the best, in my opinion, that I ever saw Tiger hit the ball was when he was barely disturbing the turf with his irons (scraping the grass -- no dirt), his distance control with his irons was the best he's ever been and then THAT swing was conducive to hitting the driver well
I believe that Tiger woods has a bad back because of the same reason many other modern golfers do. That being trying to twist his spine over a locked in base (lower body) instead of rotating his hips. Many of us older guys have reentered the game by abandoning the "core coil" and adapting ourselves to a more body friendly approach. The same body friendly approach is being instituted among young baseball players to teach throwing techniques that might eliminate the need for Tommy John surgery in 26 year old pitchers. Times are changing. When scientists quit trying to prove "theres no God" and stick to using their knowledge to help people, life gets better.
Nail, meet head. This is exactly correct. Rotating your hips also allows the downswing sequence to initiate and flow correctly. Additionally, hip rotation creates significantly more power.
Lots of comments here about how chamblee can't know what he's talking about or have any right to criticize his swing because he never did anything on tour as a player. Although I may not necessarily agree with chamblee, history proves that in any sport, not just golf, that great athlete doesn't necessarily equal great coach or analyst. Was Phil Jackson a great player in the NBA? No, but he helped Jordan & pippen get rings and then Kobe & Shaq get theirs. Also wanted to say that being critical of tiger doesn't mean he dislikes him. I think if that was the casecase, he wouldn't be trying to give any kind of advice at all and wouldn't be animate about it. He might even be encouraging tiger to keep doing what he's been doing cause it hasn't been leading to success lately
This is a bad comparison with Phil Jackson. Jackson helped his players with their mental processes to get them to be champions. The way Chamblee talks, it's as if he has been a master swing coach for many years, but I believe he is just throwing out numbers to support what he thinks might be right.
@@dttruman not arguing against you there. My point though of trying to use the argument that because Brandel Chamblee didn't have the playing record to match tiger woods, he has no business telling him how he should swing doesn't hold up ( I had to reread my comment to see what I said because it had been 5 years). If that's the case, anyone that Tiger woods has hired to be his swing coach had no credentials to do so.
@@williamshultz4620 Chamblee always seems to have an opinion, but have you noticed that sometime ago, Chamblee came out with another opinion that denigrated "Swing Coaches"? He caught a lot of flack for that and had to back off some of that.
You don't have to be a true athlete, Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicklaus to be able to voice an educated opinion. If you disqualify Brandel Chamblee on these grounds alone, then Where does that putHank Haney, Sean Foley, David Leadbetter or Butch Harmon?
Brandel has a much bigger ego than his playing career allows. Harmon and the other coaches have dozens of players with majors Brandels TV role has gone to his head
How so? What has Tiger done since his accident 5 years ago? Five years after Hogan’s accident, he won SIX majors. We get it, you love Tiger. But facts are facts bruh.
If Tiger swung like Phil Mickelson or Sam Snead, he'd still be playing championship caliber golf at age 40 and probably would be trying to win major number 20-something. This "modern-swing" that was so en vogue in the early 2000's has ruined many a back, career, and golf swing. It was especially ill advice for the modern weekend hacker (like me)...lol
There is no evidence to say he would have won with either swing. For the record he has changed his swing several times which is remarkable mid career. I am not exactly the biggest fan of him but hey pretty amazing. He needed the club head speed to stay ahead of his competitors for several years. Now DJ, Spieth, Koepka even Bubba have more club head speed and length is the real advantage on the PGA Tour.
Brandel is often criticized because he wasn’t a top tour pro so why is he providing analysis. He gives it because it is his job and he does it better than anyone ever has. He is very bright and insightful. I’m bewildered some people don’t like him because he is one of the best things golf has today.
Now in Feb-March 2015 , Brandel was correct last fall and is proven correct again The forward shaft lean really killed him, he stuck wedges into the ground the past couple weeks. When you are that steep on a wedge you better be perfect on contact or you stick it into the ground. Tiger does have mechanical problems with his swing and these mechanical problems cause stress on his back. as he needs to lean back and swing left to hit the ball where he is aiming.
You’re wrong. We aren’t debating his playing career. We are discussing his worth as an analyst. You obviously LOVE Tiger. You HATE when anyone criticizes him. But he is spot on with his analysis. He gives factual information…and back it up with numbers and video proof. I’m not at all sorry that the truth offends you.
I do not like Brandel, but NO 1 can beat him in this type of conversation! The MAN knows what he is talking about, especially concerning the golf swing!
Brandel is right. Tiger's shaft lean is much more severe than they were before, no question. Tiger's worse enemy is himself, his lack of consistency with coaches, with caddies and his obsessive interest of always modifying his swing are examples of this. His emphasis on lifting weights have also not probably been helpful on his back, he played his best when he was skinny. Brandel is 100% right, Tiger ended up leaving Sean Foley because of his inconsistencies in his swing. As I said, Tiger is his own worst enemy, he should have never had left Butch Harmon, never had fired his caddie, and shouldn't be so obsessed about gaining body muscle.
He's trying to keep up with the heavy hitting youngsters and now he is 45. I could never figure out the appeal of Sean Foley either... he creeped me out.
@@andya2665 I know sean foley ,I worked with him,I was a pro caddie…sean is Canadian …they’re Very Weird folks but sean Knows the Golf Swing….he started out teaching at John Jacobs School of golf
Nobody who has this spine surgery ever gets back to 100%, it's fact. Even if it doesn't hurt, it still limits spine rotation. Why doesn't Tiger just accept reality; he's almost 40 and has a 50 yr old's back from hitting 1000 balls every day. Shorten the swing, maximize efficiency and take it easy on your back. Tiger could hit 3/4 punch shots and only lose 10 yards on every club, but his back would be safer and he'll be able to play longer. His ego of hitting it 300+ and swinging 125mph will be his downfall.
brown55061 I don't disagree with you, but when a guy's gone 110% his whole life (and with great success), he's not going to be able to "tone it down" and expect to win. It's a mental hurdle that Tiger will probably never overcome.
His launch angle in 2014 is 11.86 last year it was 11.20. The apex of his drive this year was 106 feet last year it was 109 feet. Clubhead speed last year was 118.3 mph this year it was 115.63. It is his back...not his swing. If he had a good back the swing would work just like it did the earlier part of last year when he won 4 times before the final 2 or 3 majors. But he doesnt have a good back so the reason he has more forward shaft lean is because he is trying to zero it out and elevate the pressure on his back by lifting and straightening out. That is why you see him end majority of his shots straight up and down instead of in a nice curve c position. So both analyst are wrong and right but that is why you should look up the numbers for yourselves
Can't swing the same way again since I injured my back several years ago. I tried but because of the injury I swing differently to prevent my back giving out and I wish I had my old swing back.
T Woods has been open through the years about the use of hypnosis and mind control as part of his success on the golf course. The people that "outed" T Woods with all those embarrassing stories back in late 2009 into 2010 knew they were breaking this mind control balance and this resulted in a new and less improved Tiger Woods.
What Chamblee is talking about can be easily replicated with a putter where you can how the geometry of it works. The 6-iron is the base of the iron sequence... I was told by several instructors to eliminate my “Shaft Lean” tendencies because I was effectively “De-Lofting” my clubs and I was losing distance in the process along with accuracy...
Rich Lerner makes a GREAT point__ concerning why Tiger can hit it on the range with no apparent back issues, but he CAN'T when he plays, Maybe Tiger just wasn't playing well, it happens.
I actually do like Brandel a lot (as a huge TW fan), but Frank Nobilo was ALSO right here about Tiger simply not being healthy. Sure, he may have been able to play, but now we know in 2018 that Tiger was not healthy in 2014, 2015, and 2016...pretty much all year long.
Did you go back and look at what they two of them said. I did. Some data is probably only in print BUT everything that can be found online... Brandel was 100% correct. It amazed me that Nobilo was unaware of the stats yet chose to comment. Nobilo waited till the end to defer to say I'll go back and check. I like them both but don't comment on something you haven't verified.
Chamblee is right, because he truly understands the golf swing. If you understand the golf swing, then you will agree with Chamblee. Besides being the best golf analyst in the business; he is also a great teacher of the golf swing.
Tiger needs spine flexibility. My back hurt too after 18 holes every week for a year until I started a soft arm sway exercise every night. "Spine flexibility" is the key
I'm wondering why if Brandel Chamblee is such an expert on the perfect golf swing then why was his best finish in a major tied for 18th? I understand those that can't do teach and great teachers aren't always great players but he's not even a teacher. Tiger's heavy weight lifting and navy seal training are responsible for 99% of his injuries.
***** Tiger did actually train with Navy SEALs, or so they say. It was a while ago, so I don't remember the exact details, but I think he said he always wanted to be a SEAL, and beings he was so good at golf, he was never able to do both, so he went to Coronado (or Dam Neck), and trained with them to see what it was like and, I guess, get it out of his system. I believe he was even invited. I could be wrong though.
***** Yeah, you're mixing up the word "training" with "becoming". Technically, I trained with a Navy SEAL when I took the PST. Does that mean I'm a SEAL now? Does that mean I went to BUD/s? No. If I go to the gym and train, does that mean I'm a professional body builder? Fact is, there WAS rumors in the 2006-2010 range (I forget the exact time) that he had taken some time off to go visit Coronado _Island_, and beings you apparently don't like the word "train" I go with; "did some push-ups, and maybe shot some guns and possibly took a ride of one of their combat boats. Like I said, it was confirmed by a Navy Special Warfare Captain on the island at the time that he did, in fact, visit on multiple occasions. Remember, I believe his dad was a Green Beret, and I think he died around that time, so maybe he just wanted to see what the whole SOF thing was like, or maybe beings he grew up, and looked up to his dad, he always wanted to do both golf and be in the military, but couldn't do both, so he was curious. Who knows? All I know is he went there a few times. What he did while he was there, he's not telling.
***** You're literally _STILL_ misinterpreting what I said. He wasn't "becoming" a SEAL either. I said you were reading "train" and thought I mean't he was "becoming" a SEAL. Not the case.
***** He has trained with navy seals. He has gone on a six seal excursions in 2007 and did a lot more than take a guided tour. That doesn't mean he is a navy seal or ever will be but he has trained with them which did cause him to injure his knee. If you'd bother to do 30 seconds of research instead of just impulsively typing during your hissy fit you'd know this.
Brandel; why does the manufacturer fabricate the irons with a quarter inch of angel ( at the hosel ) for each of the irons until you get to the long irons, by that time may even lean back a few degrees...........Hmmmmmmmmmmm? The clubs are made that way to have your hands even or slightly ahead at address; more ahead with the wedges, even less with the 4-iron; so that you come into the ball with the proper loft. Tiger should seek out Mike Malaska fo his next guru!
All the technical talk makes my head spin. The only instruction any of us got from our dads growing up (I'm 50) was "Keep your head down and your left arm straight." 🤷♂️😊
Brandel is only repeating what Lee Trevino has said for years. Of course shaft lean decreases loft. Also, Trevino was quoted as saying 20 years ago that if TW doesn’t change his swing, he will have back problems.
This was filmed in late 2014. He didn't win another tournament until the Tour Championship in September 2018. This swing killed his back. No way he should have gone 4 years without a win.
Love him or hate him…Brandel speaks numbers and facts. This is how the real world should work. In every facet. Not derrrr, Tiger is da best, derrrr he have bad day. Empirical evidence that can be substantiated by real video.
Clobbers? He's completely wrong, he doesn't understand spin loft, optimal driving is done from 12 plus launch angle with a shallow angleOf attack. Bubba Watson has a higher launch and swings up 4 degrees sometimes. So everybody swings up or shallows out with a slight lean. Speith, Rory, Jason all do this. Also his idols jack, Gary, Watson all had reverse c so lol what as shitty arguement
after a month, chambo is still right, forward shaft lean happens naturally at impact with a good swing, to set up static with lean, you going to chunk or go right with shots. with driver I have a no lean right body, but, neutral to sliding my hands right of neutral, added 20ysrds to my driver
Brandel is right. Tiger is steeper then what he use to be.in 2000. Brandel is wrong in that Tiger was injured and you really can't assess him. It is foolish to assess an injured player because it won't be accurate. Brandel is very knowledgeable about shaft angle and steepness and d plane. Kudos.
It never fails to amaze how a man who won only one event in his entire career, and that event, The Greater Vancouver Open, in spite of the fact that the event was in my hometown, was considered a second tier event, has so much to say about players, many of whom have won more events in one year than he did in his entire sorry career. The only thing he seems to love more than his hair is the sound of his own voice.
A bunch of swing experts here. LOL. Even though Chamblee doesn't have big credentials, he's won and played on the PGA Tour. Even the scrubs on the PGA Tour would go to any local country club and wipe the ass of the best player there.
+mkrbrtsn1 I agree. However what ticked me of was on monday of the players he said Jason Day had no chance (or shouldn't be considered a favourite to win) that week. Later when Day won and he came into the booth for the post tournament rap up (Do the winner do that? I think it was the first time I seen someone sit down like that) he started sucking up to Day saying that he told all the other guys that you (Day) would win.
So true!!! He did say that Sawgrass was the kind of course that Day struggled on. Which in the past was true. Then he put up all these stats supporting his argument. But what Chamblee failed to realize is that Day is now a complete player. He should have come back and said, " look, I didn't think he could win but he proved me wrong." Instead he kissed his ass like the bitch that he is.
+MrBrokentowels Would you say the same thing about Butch Harmon? He has won only one tournament but is considered a swing guru. Do you have to win a major to have an opinion on someone's golf swing?
I love when people call the truth disrespectful. I understand why Brandel Chamblee might not like Tiger so much. Because Tiger went and fucked everything he had up for himself in search of perfection. I like Tiger, but Brandel has a point. You can't sit there and make excuses for a man who ruined everything on his own accord like these announcers do.
I don't think anyone is right or wrong. Everybody's body is different, jack maybe could sustain that reverse C but others may not. Modern day teaching keeping the lead foot planted may have something to do with it but who knows. I do think brandel had some good points and I don't think anyone had any evidence to back up their explanation other than "he's hurt" OBVIOUSLY! Keep trying to hit 340 yard drives with a confused swing and end up in the rough where you have to muscle a shot out of a bad lie then, yeah, over a couple rounds your back is gonna fuckin hurt! Trying to get more shaft lean to compensate for lack of physical speed just makes things worse. Just strike the ball, not try to prove anything.
Spot on Brandel. FSL is a dangerous myth to chase, so many young players having back trouble now (2023) in their 20s (Cantlay, Morikawa, Zalatoris). Don't copy.
Where are the critics NOW? Especially brandel, who has never gotten over TW not giving him an interview. Brandel the biggest cry baby ever in golf. BTW, how many majors does Brandel have? ZERO! How many tour victories does brandel have? One, at the Greater Vancouver open, that's it. In what universe is Brandel more qualified than Tiger Woods? NONE!! Brandel is the epidome of a cry baby, all because TW never gave him an interview!
Brandle seems to revel in Tiger's on course poor play. But you know what??? Tiger just won the 2019 Master's....so Brandle what about that shaft lean??? Lmao!!
They're both wrong, but Nobilo is closer to understanding why. Any swing will hurt if you have the kind of muscle imbalances that Tiger has. They key to getting better is to improve mobility and swing easier. Look at Couples or Els...easy swings that go a country mile. I know Freddy has a bad back, but he's able to manage it and still compete. Tiger's idea about getting stronger to fix this issue is the wrong way.
Well said. I agree. I have never understood why Tiger seems hell bent on swinging so damn hard. Especially considering his bad back and other injuries suffered. If he was smart he would adjust his game to a smooth swing and go for control. If he doesn't he will certainly continue to be plagued by injury and will not likely win another major or do much more at all because he will be injured off and on all the time. I'm not a huge Tiger fan but I do enjoy him being out there and pushing the field.
Looking back on this, Brandel was right. Frank Nobilo and Notah Begay wanted really badly to just try to defend Tiger because they really wanted to see him dominate golf with that swing he had in 2012-2013. We all did. But Brandel has studied the game a ton, and he knows his stuff, and he didn't like Tiger's technique. And now, in 2018, we can see he was mostly right. Yeah, Tiger won 8 times with it, but struggled in majors and never owned it because it was so unnatural to him. Now in 2018 he's finally healthier, he's gone back to natural technique that he learned as a kid, his swing speed is 129 MPH (which is almost unbelievable), and his shot quality is much better.
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Brandel has been proved right this year.. Tiger has changed his swing to protect his back..
Brandel has never been right about Tiger, only racist towards him.
I love civil convo.... great stuff guys..this is how two intelligent chaps duke it out ... nobody loses and both look like stellar fans and able to disagree without tipping over the set. Awesome.
Great observation, Simon. Imagine how much better off our country would be if we could talk politics with the same decorum. ✌🇺🇸
I'm with Brandel....Tigers back problems is partly to do with his golf swing.
yep….he’s Spot on
I'll never know why Tiger didn't just stay with Butch and what they were doing from 98 through 2001? It was near perfect golf.
He saw guys start to outdrive him and it got the best of his ego.
@@canefan17 I know this is a bit of an old post and reply, but this is incorrect; and arguably the opposite. He went to Haney to chase after performance consistency and to preserve his knee and back issues. His distance, particularly with long irons and off the tee, set him apart thanks to his speed and timing. But speed and timing are at the cost of high maintenance and low consistency. Tiger will give up winning 1 time by 15 shots to win 15 times by 1 shot; which is what he wanted to do with Hank (and technically it worked).
Butch thought he had a perfect swing so he went to haney who thought he could improve.
The swing under Butch destroyed his left knee. Hence the needed change.
If Tiger had stayed with Butch, they would've said Tiger's success was due to Butch. I think that hurt his ego. So he left, in order to prove he could win without him.
This was a good civil conversation. I think both sides made good points.
Not many people may like Brandel but he answered this perfectly
i like brandel and the way he directly communicates. he might be a bit course but he makes his case and you know where he stands.
Chamblee is right... He was working with Sean Foley back then and Foley totally ruined his game.
Foley was strange.
@@andya2665 Foley won him 5 tournaments in 2013…
@@ibrodinho Foley still creeped me out.
Foley said he was working on getting more shaft lean with tiger so the guy is talking sense
@@Simeon-the-Magnificent That whole Tiger with Foley thing was strange. Foley was strange.
Also, when nobilo says Tervino was one of the best ball strikers ever, that is true but like brandel says his grip, takeaway, and downswing was not what tiger is doing. You can't have that much shaft lean and swing inside out while getting stuck! Trevino reversed everything, shut club face going back, outside the dropped it in (while having open stance) then held the face off if not trying to open it before/during impact. Tiger is trying to do too many things with all his tendencies, swaying and dropping. Too many things to time at 39 years old and 3 swing changes later. Chipping is just a symtom of stress.
As I have gotten older, I’m starting to appreciate the knowledge and work Brandal does, even though his pro days were minimal. He was spot on about this with Tiger here. When Tiger came back from back surgery, it was more of a natural swing. I wish Tiger were in his younger days with that swing post Butch era.
Ah... the good old days when the analysts used to debate Tiger's swing after every round. I've never been a huge fan of Brandel but he WAS right here. Tiger did play some good golf with the Foley swing but it didn't last too long and it's clear it was all tied to the worsening of his back, too.
This is what sports broadcasting used to be. Love it.
Wow rather you like Brandel or not he was spot on. Had an instructor introduce this very swing concept to me at the and it was the worst advice I ever accepted in this sport. About the only thing this is good for is your short irons as I admit you will pick up distance on wedges and short irons. The mid irons you will also pick up some distance but you begin lose accuracy. By the time I got to my long irons I did not know were the ball was going and my 5 iron was not going any further than my 6 iron and my 4 iron was maybe 5 yards longer. Next my 3 wood gave me a lot of roll but would not go any higher than 9 or 10 feet and that is being generous. I lost at least 50 yards with my driver and could not control the distance with my 56 and 60 degree wedge around the green. The worst part is my scores jumped into the low 90's. The teacher told me that I needed to be fit for my clubs. Thank goodness I had adjustable driver, wood and hybrid so that was no problem but I did buy a new iron set only to see it get worse. Maybe a month later, what do you know? I had back problems just like Brandel said and had to go to the chiropractor. Just so happened the chiropractor was a golfer and advised me to get away from this guy and cut my loses. I cannot believe there are instructors out there teaching this nonsense but I blame no one by myself. I felt real silly but If TIGER got duped then it could happen to any of us.
Brandel would be unemployed if he wasn't regularly ripping Tiger, it's his top talent in this life.
He just won the 2019 Masters
Actually one of the smartest, most astute commentators out there.
Brandel is exactly right...the best, in my opinion, that I ever saw Tiger hit the ball was when he was barely disturbing the turf with his irons (scraping the grass -- no dirt), his distance control with his irons was the best he's ever been and then THAT swing was conducive to hitting the driver well
I believe that Tiger woods has a bad back because of the same reason many other modern golfers do. That being trying to twist his spine over a locked in base (lower body) instead of rotating his hips. Many of us older guys have reentered the game by abandoning the "core coil" and adapting ourselves to a more body friendly approach.
The same body friendly approach is being instituted among young baseball players to teach throwing techniques that might eliminate the need for Tommy John surgery in 26 year old pitchers. Times are changing. When scientists quit trying to prove "theres no God" and stick to using their knowledge to help people, life gets better.
Love the take on science, also gonna try to rotate my hips more. At 60 I want to keep playing as long as I can. Thanks
Nail, meet head. This is exactly correct. Rotating your hips also allows the downswing sequence to initiate and flow correctly. Additionally, hip rotation creates significantly more power.
Lots of comments here about how chamblee can't know what he's talking about or have any right to criticize his swing because he never did anything on tour as a player. Although I may not necessarily agree with chamblee, history proves that in any sport, not just golf, that great athlete doesn't necessarily equal great coach or analyst. Was Phil Jackson a great player in the NBA? No, but he helped Jordan & pippen get rings and then Kobe & Shaq get theirs. Also wanted to say that being critical of tiger doesn't mean he dislikes him. I think if that was the casecase, he wouldn't be trying to give any kind of advice at all and wouldn't be animate about it. He might even be encouraging tiger to keep doing what he's been doing cause it hasn't been leading to success lately
and shamble isn't on that level of playing coaching or criticising lol
@@1993smallz Of which you actually have no knowledge one way or the other.
This is a bad comparison with Phil Jackson. Jackson helped his players with their mental processes to get them to be champions. The way Chamblee talks, it's as if he has been a master swing coach for many years, but I believe he is just throwing out numbers to support what he thinks might be right.
@@dttruman not arguing against you there. My point though of trying to use the argument that because Brandel Chamblee didn't have the playing record to match tiger woods, he has no business telling him how he should swing doesn't hold up ( I had to reread my comment to see what I said because it had been 5 years). If that's the case, anyone that Tiger woods has hired to be his swing coach had no credentials to do so.
@@williamshultz4620 Chamblee always seems to have an opinion, but have you noticed that sometime ago, Chamblee came out with another opinion that denigrated "Swing Coaches"? He caught a lot of flack for that and had to back off some of that.
You don't have to be a true athlete, Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicklaus to be able to voice an educated opinion. If you disqualify Brandel Chamblee on these grounds alone, then Where does that putHank Haney, Sean Foley, David Leadbetter or Butch Harmon?
Brandel has a much bigger ego than his playing career allows.
Harmon and the other coaches have dozens of players with majors Brandels TV role has gone to his head
2019: Brandel about to propose to Tiger. Brandel comparing Tiger's comeback to Ben Hogan's is laughable.
Not really
How so? What has Tiger done since his accident 5 years ago? Five years after Hogan’s accident, he won SIX majors. We get it, you love Tiger. But facts are facts bruh.
@@michaelrowe6220 You're reading it wrong dude.
If Tiger swung like Phil Mickelson or Sam Snead, he'd still be playing championship caliber golf at age 40 and probably would be trying to win major number 20-something. This "modern-swing" that was so en vogue in the early 2000's has ruined many a back, career, and golf swing. It was especially ill advice for the modern weekend hacker (like me)...lol
Herbinator_88 If Tiger swung like them he wouldn't have 14 majors.
There is no evidence to say he would have won with either swing. For the record he has changed his swing several times which is remarkable mid career. I am not exactly the biggest fan of him but hey pretty amazing. He needed the club head speed to stay ahead of his competitors for several years. Now DJ, Spieth, Koepka even Bubba have more club head speed and length is the real advantage on the PGA Tour.
Brandel is often criticized because he wasn’t a top tour pro so why is he providing analysis. He gives it because it is his job and he does it better than anyone ever has. He is very bright and insightful. I’m bewildered some people don’t like him because he is one of the best things golf has today.
Nobilo was right...HE WAS HURT! That is all it ever was.
Brandel’s explanation was sound, based on science and visual proof
Brandel Chamblee.. I hope you receive this " Thank You " !!!!!!!!!!!
Now in Feb-March 2015 , Brandel was correct last fall and is proven correct again The forward shaft lean really killed him, he stuck wedges into the ground the past couple weeks. When you are that steep on a wedge you better be perfect on contact or you stick it into the ground. Tiger does have mechanical problems with his swing and these mechanical problems cause stress on his back. as he needs to lean back and swing left to hit the ball where he is aiming.
Brandel is extremely knowledgable about the golf swing. He's literally written the book about it.
He has been a failure as a player ! He is only good to spread nasty and mean comments
You’re wrong. We aren’t debating his playing career. We are discussing his worth as an analyst. You obviously LOVE Tiger. You HATE when anyone criticizes him. But he is spot on with his analysis. He gives factual information…and back it up with numbers and video proof. I’m not at all sorry that the truth offends you.
I do not like Brandel, but NO 1 can beat him in this type of conversation! The MAN knows what he is talking about, especially concerning the golf swing!
Brandel is right. Tiger's shaft lean is much more severe than they were before, no question. Tiger's worse enemy is himself, his lack of consistency with coaches, with caddies and his obsessive interest of always modifying his swing are examples of this. His emphasis on lifting weights have also not probably been helpful on his back, he played his best when he was skinny. Brandel is 100% right, Tiger ended up leaving Sean Foley because of his inconsistencies in his swing. As I said, Tiger is his own worst enemy, he should have never had left Butch Harmon, never had fired his caddie, and shouldn't be so obsessed about gaining body muscle.
He's trying to keep up with the heavy hitting youngsters and now he is 45.
I could never figure out the appeal of Sean Foley either... he creeped me out.
@@andya2665 I know sean foley ,I worked with him,I was a pro caddie…sean is Canadian …they’re Very Weird folks but sean Knows the Golf Swing….he started out teaching at John Jacobs School of golf
Great Comment…..Right on Point🙌💯…William Kerner
@@truthfulpatriot9129 your comment lost it's cred with your personal attack of my comment, "SS", reallly?
@@andya2665 thanks candy ass….that’s a great compliment comin from you
chambo, right, I'm trying to lessen shaft lean as well.
Nobilo and Notay must be sitting there thinking "these absolute birdbrains". Chamblee is not a good guy.
Well said!
Chamblee has proven over and over he has no clue when it comes the golf swing
Nobody who has this spine surgery ever gets back to 100%, it's fact. Even if it doesn't hurt, it still limits spine rotation. Why doesn't Tiger just accept reality; he's almost 40 and has a 50 yr old's back from hitting 1000 balls every day. Shorten the swing, maximize efficiency and take it easy on your back. Tiger could hit 3/4 punch shots and only lose 10 yards on every club, but his back would be safer and he'll be able to play longer. His ego of hitting it 300+ and swinging 125mph will be his downfall.
brown55061 I don't disagree with you, but when a guy's gone 110% his whole life (and with great success), he's not going to be able to "tone it down" and expect to win. It's a mental hurdle that Tiger will probably never overcome.
Two back surgeries isn't good for a golfer. His body is brittle. So many fat guys on tour and the fittest one can't even play.
alex vwenz What a dumb prediction...idiot !
His launch angle in 2014 is 11.86 last year it was 11.20. The apex of his drive this year was 106 feet last year it was 109 feet. Clubhead speed last year was 118.3 mph this year it was 115.63. It is his back...not his swing. If he had a good back the swing would work just like it did the earlier part of last year when he won 4 times before the final 2 or 3 majors. But he doesnt have a good back so the reason he has more forward shaft lean is because he is trying to zero it out and elevate the pressure on his back by lifting and straightening out. That is why you see him end majority of his shots straight up and down instead of in a nice curve c position.
So both analyst are wrong and right but that is why you should look up the numbers for yourselves
Can't swing the same way again since I injured my back several years ago. I tried but because of the injury I swing differently to prevent my back giving out and I wish I had my old swing back.
Chamblee...a legend in his own mind.
Aren't we all?
@@andya2665 👀….No….we’re not…..what moronic comment…..🙄……there must be two S’s following the A in your last name ….
T Woods has been open through the years about the use of hypnosis and mind control as part of his success on the golf course. The people that "outed" T Woods with all those embarrassing stories back in late 2009 into 2010 knew they were breaking this mind control balance and this resulted in a new and less improved Tiger Woods.
They cracked his code.
shaft lean is not angle of attack. you can be shallow with excessive shaft lean.
I remember watching this live. This was hilarious
This makes golf conversations interesting to watch.
Lee's bad back stemmed from the LIGHTNING STRIKE Brandel.
Lee Trevino ? correct lightning strike 1975 ish - in chicago, I think it was Butler National - lucky he lived
Both Frank and Brandel and very knowledgeable and great for golf.
What Chamblee is talking about can be easily replicated with a putter where you can how the geometry of it works. The 6-iron is the base of the iron sequence... I was told by several instructors to eliminate my “Shaft Lean” tendencies because I was effectively “De-Lofting” my clubs and I was losing distance in the process along with accuracy...
Brandel is 100% correct, he is trying to help Tiger, golf rating dramatically increase when Tiger is playing well.
my launch angle is 25 with an 8 degree driver, and my back still hurts
Lift your heel
Rich Lerner makes a GREAT point__ concerning why Tiger can hit it on the range with no apparent back issues, but he CAN'T when he plays, Maybe Tiger just wasn't playing well, it happens.
Nobilo looks like he wants to punch Brandel... LOL!
we All want to Punch nobilo the narcissist and notah beengay
I actually do like Brandel a lot (as a huge TW fan), but Frank Nobilo was ALSO right here about Tiger simply not being healthy. Sure, he may have been able to play, but now we know in 2018 that Tiger was not healthy in 2014, 2015, and 2016...pretty much all year long.
The skip Bayless of golf channel
Except this guy is actually knowledgeable, as suffocating as he can be sometimes.
it was the other way around Nobilo clobbered chamblee
Did you go back and look at what they two of them said. I did. Some data is probably only in print BUT everything that can be found online... Brandel was 100% correct. It amazed me that Nobilo was unaware of the stats yet chose to comment. Nobilo waited till the end to defer to say I'll go back and check. I like them both but don't comment on something you haven't verified.
Brandel knows the golf swing period.
Not any more than your average golf coach.
just for clarification - Lee Trevino had a bad back but that was as a result of getting hit by lightning in 1975. - he never had back trouble before .
Not sure when he got the bad back in 1975 or not, but he continued to win
Chamblee is right, because he truly understands the golf swing. If you understand the golf swing, then you will agree with Chamblee. Besides being the best golf analyst in the business; he is also a great teacher of the golf swing.
Tiger needs spine flexibility. My back hurt too after 18 holes every week for a year until I started a soft arm sway exercise every night. "Spine flexibility" is the key
I'm wondering why if Brandel Chamblee is such an expert on the perfect golf swing then why was his best finish in a major tied for 18th? I understand those that can't do teach and great teachers aren't always great players but he's not even a teacher. Tiger's heavy weight lifting and navy seal training are responsible for 99% of his injuries.
***** Tiger did actually train with Navy SEALs, or so they say. It was a while ago, so I don't remember the exact details, but I think he said he always wanted to be a SEAL, and beings he was so good at golf, he was never able to do both, so he went to Coronado (or Dam Neck), and trained with them to see what it was like and, I guess, get it out of his system. I believe he was even invited. I could be wrong though.
***** Yeah, you're mixing up the word "training" with "becoming". Technically, I trained with a Navy SEAL when I took the PST. Does that mean I'm a SEAL now? Does that mean I went to BUD/s? No. If I go to the gym and train, does that mean I'm a professional body builder?
Fact is, there WAS rumors in the 2006-2010 range (I forget the exact time) that he had taken some time off to go visit Coronado _Island_, and beings you apparently don't like the word "train" I go with; "did some push-ups, and maybe shot some guns and possibly took a ride of one of their combat boats. Like I said, it was confirmed by a Navy Special Warfare Captain on the island at the time that he did, in fact, visit on multiple occasions.
Remember, I believe his dad was a Green Beret, and I think he died around that time, so maybe he just wanted to see what the whole SOF thing was like, or maybe beings he grew up, and looked up to his dad, he always wanted to do both golf and be in the military, but couldn't do both, so he was curious. Who knows?
All I know is he went there a few times. What he did while he was there, he's not telling.
***** You're literally _STILL_ misinterpreting what I said. He wasn't "becoming" a SEAL either. I said you were reading "train" and thought I mean't he was "becoming" a SEAL. Not the case.
***** He has trained with navy seals. He has gone on a six seal excursions in 2007 and did a lot more than take a guided tour. That doesn't mean he is a navy seal or ever will be but he has trained with them which did cause him to injure his knee. If you'd bother to do 30 seconds of research instead of just impulsively typing during your hissy fit you'd know this.
bigsleep32 Thank you.
Brandel; why does the manufacturer fabricate the irons with a quarter inch of angel ( at the hosel ) for each of the irons until you get to the long irons, by that time may even lean back a few degrees...........Hmmmmmmmmmmm? The clubs are made that way to have your hands even or slightly ahead at address; more ahead with the wedges, even less with the 4-iron; so that you come into the ball with the proper loft. Tiger should seek out Mike Malaska fo his next guru!
This video is several years old, but no matter how much we like to bash Brandel (and he deserves it) he was right about Tiger's "shaft lean".
All the technical talk makes my head spin. The only instruction any of us got from our dads growing up (I'm 50) was "Keep your head down and your left arm straight." 🤷♂️😊
Lucky. I'm 54 and the only golf instruction I got growing up was "Kids aren't allowed on the course!" Finally took the game up in my 30's.
How many tournaments did Chamblee place top ten?
Brandel is only repeating what Lee Trevino has said for years. Of course shaft lean decreases loft. Also, Trevino was quoted as saying 20 years ago that if TW doesn’t change his swing, he will have back problems.
I love how this is filmed prior to his masters 2019 win ! back to sleep boys zzzz
This was filmed in late 2014. He didn't win another tournament until the Tour Championship in September 2018. This swing killed his back. No way he should have gone 4 years without a win.
bc, a legend in his own mind.
they are both wrong his swing speed was 118.30
Branded was basing his theory on Tiger saying that his back was fine. That's why his numbers are off.
Brandel Chamblee knows his stuff. Both had good arguments though.
Hey Brandle, what are the numbers/stats on Tiger's grit, determination and the love of the game???
Sounds like Tiger should eat a salad. He will be more healthy then. Jokes aside, the fwd shaft lean explanation is on point.
I can't stand brandel but he is exactly correct about you have to clear out to the left of you have a very steep swing
Love him or hate him…Brandel speaks numbers and facts. This is how the real world should work. In every facet. Not derrrr, Tiger is da best, derrrr he have bad day. Empirical evidence that can be substantiated by real video.
Clobbers? He's completely wrong, he doesn't understand spin loft, optimal driving is done from 12 plus launch angle with a shallow angleOf attack. Bubba Watson has a higher launch and swings up 4 degrees sometimes. So everybody swings up or shallows out with a slight lean. Speith, Rory, Jason all do this. Also his idols jack, Gary, Watson all had reverse c so lol what as shitty arguement
It sounds like Nobilo and Notah are making more sense than Chamblee
Michael breed would have a field day with this
What came first - the chicken or the egg? Arm Leg Leg Arm Head
I bet I can fight anyone in this chat and win
These comments are awesome! And fall into two camps. Brandel is right with his analysis…or I LOVE Tiger!!! And no one is allowed to criticize him!😂
after a month, chambo is still right, forward shaft lean happens naturally at impact with a good swing, to set up static with lean, you going to chunk or go right with shots.
with driver I have a no lean right body, but, neutral to sliding my hands right of neutral, added 20ysrds to my driver
KING SHARK. Yes but looking at Tiger's play in 2018 you'd have to concede have to concede that Frank was perhaps more right.
Brandel is right. Tiger is steeper then what he use to be.in 2000. Brandel is wrong in that Tiger was injured and you really can't assess him. It is foolish to assess an injured player because it won't be accurate. Brandel is very knowledgeable about shaft angle and steepness and d plane. Kudos.
yeah he won 1 tourney in 8 yeRS GOT A CLOSE 18TH FINISH IN A major i respect his knowwledge hahahah
Fantastic television!
Does Brandel ever Watch video from the time he's referring to? Or is he exaggerating purposely?
This from a guy with 1 PGA tour win over his career. Yes, we should all listen to what he says right?
What a stupid comment, but I doubt you know why.
@C. Buck Hyres Not sure I am going to use Mr. to someone probably more than 30 years younger.
Brandel is completely right. Many people rip on him, but he is right and now here we are three years later and Tiger is still garbage.
Steve Fortney what now?
maybe tiger made some changes in his swing
What now Biotch
Huh?
I hate brandel but he’s right most of the time
It never fails to amaze how a man who won only one event in his entire career, and that event, The Greater Vancouver Open, in spite of the fact that the event was in my hometown, was considered a second tier event, has so much to say about players, many of whom have won more events in one year than he did in his entire sorry career.
The only thing he seems to love more than his hair is the sound of his own voice.
A bunch of swing experts here. LOL. Even though Chamblee doesn't have big credentials, he's won and played on the PGA Tour. Even the scrubs on the PGA Tour would go to any local country club and wipe the ass of the best player there.
Brandel is the best golf analyser around.
He is good but it's his delivery that turns me off. He acts like his opinion is the only one is right.
+mkrbrtsn1 I agree. However what ticked me of was on monday of the players he said Jason Day had no chance (or shouldn't be considered a favourite to win) that week. Later when Day won and he came into the booth for the post tournament rap up (Do the winner do that? I think it was the first time I seen someone sit down like that) he started sucking up to Day saying that he told all the other guys that you (Day) would win.
So true!!! He did say that Sawgrass was the kind of course that Day struggled on. Which in the past was true. Then he put up all these stats supporting his argument. But what Chamblee failed to realize is that Day is now a complete player. He should have come back and said, " look, I didn't think he could win but he proved me wrong." Instead he kissed his ass like the bitch that he is.
yep... lost a lot of respect for him... like joe bow won't notice but true fans did!
Brandel who? he's rubbish and a shit golfer
i think brandel is right and knows his shit!!!
agreed
How many majors has Chamblee won?
+MrBrokentowels Would you say the same thing about Butch Harmon? He has won only one tournament but is considered a swing guru. Do you have to win a major to have an opinion on someone's golf swing?
How many has Ledbetter or any of the other great coaches won?
If Brandel was right and knows his shit, he never practiced it on tour. Only 1 win in over 20 years on tour? What a joke.
5:06 that smile tho
This was such a weird era. Seemed like golf was in limbo
I love when people call the truth disrespectful. I understand why Brandel Chamblee might not like Tiger so much. Because Tiger went and fucked everything he had up for himself in search of perfection. I like Tiger, but Brandel has a point. You can't sit there and make excuses for a man who ruined everything on his own accord like these announcers do.
Hey Tiger just won the 2019 Master's!!!
@@gullybop1695
Yup!🐯⛳👍,☺.
Few years later, Tiger's back and Chamblee was all wrong.
No cuz tiger had to change his swing closer to where it was in the early 2000's to win again
I don't think anyone is right or wrong. Everybody's body is different, jack maybe could sustain that reverse C but others may not. Modern day teaching keeping the lead foot planted may have something to do with it but who knows. I do think brandel had some good points and I don't think anyone had any evidence to back up their explanation other than "he's hurt" OBVIOUSLY! Keep trying to hit 340 yard drives with a confused swing and end up in the rough where you have to muscle a shot out of a bad lie then, yeah, over a couple rounds your back is gonna fuckin hurt! Trying to get more shaft lean to compensate for lack of physical speed just makes things worse. Just strike the ball, not try to prove anything.
this is so dumb, tiger took massive divots in 1997 and played great. forward shaftlean does not make a great play bad or vis versa
Spot on Brandel. FSL is a dangerous myth to chase, so many young players having back trouble now (2023) in their 20s (Cantlay, Morikawa, Zalatoris). Don't copy.
Chamblee is right on
I thought Nobilo made the most obvious point. That Tiger is not healthy. When you are not healthy, then your swing will suffer.
Where are the critics NOW? Especially brandel, who has never gotten over TW not giving him an interview. Brandel the biggest cry baby ever in golf. BTW, how many majors does Brandel have? ZERO! How many tour victories does brandel have? One, at the Greater Vancouver open, that's it. In what universe is Brandel more qualified than Tiger Woods? NONE!! Brandel is the epidome of a cry baby, all because TW never gave him an interview!
Nobilo and Notah couldn't see any wrong in Woods if he hoped up on the table and took a dump in their laps.
That's an Anderson Pooper quote,Lilly,☺..
Brandle seems to revel in Tiger's on course poor play. But you know what??? Tiger just won the 2019 Master's....so Brandle what about that shaft lean??? Lmao!!
@C. Buck Hyres yep!! Talks at nauseam.......its almost sickening. Puke!!
@C. Buck Hyres I concur!!
@C. Buck Hyres man listen....I hear you..pardon the pun.
Any golfer coming up on 50yrs old can't do what they used too, even Tiger after what he has been thru..
They're both wrong, but Nobilo is closer to understanding why. Any swing will hurt if you have the kind of muscle imbalances that Tiger has. They key to getting better is to improve mobility and swing easier. Look at Couples or Els...easy swings that go a country mile. I know Freddy has a bad back, but he's able to manage it and still compete. Tiger's idea about getting stronger to fix this issue is the wrong way.
Well said. I agree. I have never understood why Tiger seems hell bent on swinging so damn hard. Especially considering his bad back and other injuries suffered. If he was smart he would adjust his game to a smooth swing and go for control. If he doesn't he will certainly continue to be plagued by injury and will not likely win another major or do much more at all because he will be injured off and on all the time. I'm not a huge Tiger fan but I do enjoy him being out there and pushing the field.
Looking back on this, Brandel was right. Frank Nobilo and Notah Begay wanted really badly to just try to defend Tiger because they really wanted to see him dominate golf with that swing he had in 2012-2013. We all did. But Brandel has studied the game a ton, and he knows his stuff, and he didn't like Tiger's technique. And now, in 2018, we can see he was mostly right. Yeah, Tiger won 8 times with it, but struggled in majors and never owned it because it was so unnatural to him. Now in 2018 he's finally healthier, he's gone back to natural technique that he learned as a kid, his swing speed is 129 MPH (which is almost unbelievable), and his shot quality is much better.
Poor Tiger has gone mental.
All this talk of shaft lean is turning me on