1978 Firebird Supercharger Pulley and Intake Mods (Ep.3 Part 1 of 3)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2018
- Finally, all of the parts are here and we can bolt the pulleys to the crankshaft to drive the Weiand 144 supercharger! We go over that and then have to take a close look at the intake manifold and the oil pressure sender port, and make some modifications! Nothing ever just bolts on, does it?
Timeline of filming: January 9th, 2018 - January 10th, 2018
Song List (Order of First Appearance):
0:01 Log Cabin - Silent Partner
4:55 Keep Dreaming - Topher Mohr and Alex Elena
(All music provided by TH-cam's Audio Library royalty free.)
Thanks for watching, and joining us on this adventure! Please let us know what you think! Consider supporting us via Patreon as well! / fuzzydiceprojects - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Cool to see a younger person getting into working and modifying their own rides with realistic budgets and projects. Great job. I’ll be sharing lots of stuff with my son who is 14. I have 30+ years doing stuff but for him to see others doing it it helps reinforce my suggestions.
Keep up the great stuff.
I've done the same with my son. I got him a huge set of tools and a nice box, It all sat in his closet till one day he unpacked them all and filled his tool box! Now he's doing something with his truck all the time! Turbo replacement has been the biggest sofar. Its awesome when your kids share some of the same interest!! He and I can sit and talk about cars and engines all day!!
Option #4: Pull the intake, tig the cracks and reinstall with thick washers shaped to fit over the weak tab areas. :)
Sorry, didn't quite make it to option #4 haha. Don't know anyone personally with a TIG, though there are some other aluminum fixes I'd like to try whenever I pull the intake next. Cut-to-fit washers would help some of the holes but the edges were so thin some of them wouldn't have mattered this time around.
Just take it to a welding shop and tell them to use it as filler work. I'd have them build up those bosses too... Shouldn't be too expensive.
Maxwelhse Good advice!
Option #5 get some duct tape or gorilla tape. use that and hope you don't go over 200 mph.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects third tool i bought after grinder, and drill press... look for a miller 200dx, you'll love it. if your a tech motivated individual.
should have taken the manifold off and got a metal work shop to cut those cracks, weld them and weld in reinforcement, or... get a refund from Holly, that is Piss poor on their part
It was a second-hand part, and looked like it had been modified, so no chance Holley would deal with it. I'll keep an eye on it but probably only deal with it if/when it breaks.
Agreed.
just above the oil filter you will se a small set screw you can use that for oil preasure gauge
So glad to see more uploads!!!! Your vids are the best!!!
Those were my thoughts exactly when I rebuilt my TA's 403 from the ground up and put in a crank shaft that had a tiny nick taken out of one of the journals when it came back from being mic'd and polished. Eight years later that same bearing spun out on me on the highway, but luckily I was able to coast onto an off ramp and into a Benny's parking lot safely. Thank you Harold's of East Providence! I hope they went out of business. Ended up installing a brand new crank in my moms driveway with only 15" of clearance from the ramps. :-) Not the worst work environment I've been in.
Everyone talks about the bolt-on ease of small block Chevy’s… This video is the reality. I’ve been through so many of these alignment issues… Don’t get me wrong, I love SBC’s and they are so tough but not nearly as mod-friendly as people would have you believe. So when you pop the hood on your finished engine everyone assumes it was easy, plug and play. This video really gives insight on how much goes into it getting one of these right! Great work!
Finally! You kept us waiting too long for this vid.
Braze the cracks. definitely dont leave the intake as is!
I was hoping to see more of these videos, awesome job bro
Niiiice. Just got caught up on your vids this morning, and now an update!
So excited. DICE MAN your the best.
Really cool, just saw this in my notifications and clicked on it so fast
All those spacers! It's a "space car". ;)
Thanks for posting. And convincing me to spring for a supercharged crate engine.
It’s a safe bet that the lock washers used on the manifold was the cause of cracking it. As a rule, use flat washers or shouldered bolts. Keep up the good work!
Flat washers would need to be trimmed for clearance, the lock washers were flattened out and wouldn't hurt anything even if they weren't. Much better than having nothing on the bolts at all, probably comparable to or better than flange bolts here. It cracked because the metal was less than a milimeter thin in spots, and only some very particular washers and a lower torque spec would have prevented it.
I was going to buy a use supercharger and this video made me change my mind thanks
Wow, I would contact Holley about replacing that manifold or weld it up and machine flat spots for larger washers.
I've seen a few higher compression setups with that blower that just would not stop pinging under cruise conditions with the EGR blocked off. EGR ends up cooling off the intake charge (less O2 to burn) and ends up fixing it.
OHHH THE STRESS IS GETTING TO ME
May be late but i love this
You are going to need a catch can for crankcase relief running boost. You can also pick up oil feed next to oil filter on the block
Come on man, just pull the intake and have those cracks welded up!!!! There is always time to do it right the second time.
If it becomes a problem, I will, or even if anything breaks off without leaking, I will pull the intake. It actually isn't that much work with this setup how it is, so I don't feel too bad putting that off until it is a problem. Still feel like I'll break the engine before that causes trouble.
Use duct tape cheaper then tig welder.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Try some JB Weld on those cracks.
@@Tigerfire75 Duct Tape is a " Red Neck " repair ! This gentleman sounds like he is from a Northern State !
@@pablogaviria9265 I believe he is from Maryland though it sided with the north during the war it was said to be a southern state
A tig welder would take care of those cracks.
Yeah, I don't personally know anyone with one to do it, but maybe down the line. If it ever becomes a problem I'll pull the intake and there are some other aluminum "welding" options I'd like to try first.
I would definitely look to have it TIG welded. with that welder you could add material to correct the original problem too
I almost cried when you cut the intake manifold. But hey do what you've gotta do.
cut the manifold, weld the holes shut, then weld the corners with gussets...done
The gap of the China wall is important also you can weld up those intakes I have done a couple in the past
Yeah man, I had to buy a 90 degree fitting on mine too.... But I didn't notice until after I installed my blower too!
Finally !
want to supercharge my cutlass, glad i know what i'd be getting in to! ha
You got to do what you got to do.
What a nightmare !! I can’t imagine how you felt when you saw all those cracks. :-(
For the manifold I would have ran flat washers that were way bigger than necessary and trimmed them. Possibly thicker as well. That way you give them every chance to not crack, there's a good chance it wouldnt have worked as thin as it was though. I hate when expensive stuff doesnt fit right.
Yeah, for some of those bolts I could have trimmed flat washers to fit. That front passenger side one though, it's so close that a standard head bolt is too big to get a socket on, I don't think anything would have helped all that much there.
Those suck. I had a turbo with a bolt like that where you had to use a crow's foot and an extension to get it off, it was too close to the pipe.
Have a machine shop machine a longer spacer for piece of mind. All so have them tig weld the cracks and add more metal around the holes.
It sure is hard to find these blowers used, even with the LS stuff taking over
Should be damn fun to drive
Surprisingly, they are on Craigslist/Facebook Marketplace in my area every once in a while. The 177s are more common, but often don't include intake manifolds or are missing parts. I wanted to jump on this 144 because it was (almost) a complete kit, was the newest model, and had not seen a lot of use.
Can't go wrong with a shit load of orange RTV to compensate for the cracking, am I right?
NOOOOOOO
lets give this boy a natcho....
:49, love it.
Cracked manifold. Say no to crack!
Seems like my brother told me to avoid weiand parts way back in 1990. Now I know why.
This is a common GM block, so there is no excuse for the oil port blockage, nor the thin remainer around the bolt holes on an aluminum intake!!
Not like it would have hurt them to increase thickness in those areas since they are not in the way of anything from what I see.
Keep the hood shut when running to minimize chance of injury when it frags.
Next to the oil filter is a plug. It's the same size as the oil sending unit hole. That access point is perfectly acceptable to run a sending unit or manual guage
You're not wrong, though I'm pretty sure those are 1/4" NPT and not 1/8" (not that an adapter wouldn't fit). The electric unit is a bit bulky for that but with an angled fitting it would work for the mechanical gauge. Honestly, I didn't even think of it, haha!
I know its 4 years ago but my thoughts would've been take all those spacers to a good machinist and have him mill you just what you need
About that cracked manifold.... if you took it out, would it be possible to have it welded and re finish it by hand so you have more material for fastening the thing?
Definitely, it could be TIG welded and material added to build up the thin areas. Just going to see what happens with it first though haha.
YES!!!
Cracks and other manufacturing problems are why I went with Edlelbrock .
Wow nothing but issue after issue,gotta divide and conquer
NEVER ENOUGH SPACERRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! XD
the smaller diameter balancer was thicker than the larger diameter one. I think that's, where the 1" difference came from
Dude, pull that intake and weld the cracked mounting tabs!
should always use a flat washer under any style of lock washer when torqueing to alloy of any kind and with some sort of lube under it and on bolt threads, such as anti seize . This will prevent thread loss and intake marring or cracking plus it allows you to get a correct torque otherwise you are not
Oil plug also above the timing cover on the block
Good thing it's not a 454, seen 3 454 crankshaft$ snap off behind the balancer running a extension pulley turning a hydraulic PTO pump. On a wrecker!
run the oil pressure guage underneath bottom side of block and cap that hole
woooooo
What did you use for throttle linkage?
use the oil pressure port down by the oil filter on drivers side of motor
Did you e the torque specs for the iron intake manifold?
If you had done this on a late model camero or mustang yo would get a kit with all the pulleys and everything wold fit. Of course you are looking at upwards of $10,000. And, your biggest problem would be electrical and getting a tune for the ECU, probably another couple thousand $.
It’s awesome you are dong this old school. You seem very competent. Good luck with this. Awesome.
I was going to use the torque specs from the Holley installation manual, 30 ft/lbs, but I hadn't even gotten there when I noticed it cracking. So it's actually under that spec, at 25 ft/lbs. Shouldn't be enough of a difference to cause any issues though.
I looked into superchargers for my late-model Silverado a while back, the absolute cheapest I could find started at $7000, which is just too much for me. Modern cars can make fantastic use of forced induction, and this is quite old-school compared to that. It's a lot cheaper, and it certainly has its quirks and charms!
Isn't there another oil galley plug on the drivers side of the block? I seem to remember running out there in a SBC/Z....
Yep, it is possible to use that port as well. Honestly I was kind of just fed up with it lol, but I could have gotten some angle adapters to clear the headers and made something to work there as well.
if u were to use a flat washer in front of the lock washer on the intake it would spread out the pressure a little and cause less cracking
There wasn't room for one on almost all of the bolts, what I should have done was not be lazy and cut flat washers to fit to give it better odds though.
Should be a provision for a oil sending unit sensor you can plumb into
Intake cracks.... I wonder if they just listed an incorrect torque spec
That water outlet on intake looks real close to that blower housing.
Indeed it is, the hose clamp was tricky to get onto the rad hose. It isn't the original housing and those are difficult (read: expensive) to come by. Somebody ground down this housing to fit and I ground it down even more before painting it. I don't think anything is actually touching it right now, after tightening the hose clamp, though.
Can't wait to see it finished my dad used to have a 78 trans am when i was a kid had a built 400 motor 3inch exhaust flowmasters and turn downs before the rear end that car was one fast street car he ended up trading it for a tube chassis 1961 austin healey drag car.
Vow, all those spacers is just asking for trouble.
Why not build up the manifold ears with weld to increase strength fix the cracks and allow for larger washers to spread load?
That is the idea for the future, but I didn't have a TIG welder at the time and didn't think it posed an immediate threat. Hasn't caused any issues yet at least, but next time I get an excuse to take the intake off I'll try to make it more solid.
What a pos intake and isn't there a place down by the oil filter to get oil pressure . ? I think there is or if you look into it or a oil filter adapter that has provisions for that but damn you spent enough money and the first guy could not have had that intake installed it would have cracked on him or is it because the deck was milled and the China walls were too high excessive stress?
I've never been a big fan of supercharging, and this just confirms it. More trouble than it is worth' and far too much expence.
Tork manifolds at 22 pounds thermastat bolts at 15 for aluminum.
1,000th like, hehe :)
Excellent old school "shade tree mechanic" like video presentation. Companies of products like this use industrial recommended standard torque figures, which in real life is only gained by experience of how much is enough. Hand tightening (10-15 foot pounds) is good for much of those light aluminum parts and not the listed (20-30) foot pounds. After 20+ years of these types of builds I can also say the parts made now are just plain old sloppy now being made in China with no real quality control and you are another victim of no more made in the good old USA like the parts were when I started way back when in the early 90's. Hopefully Holley will see your video and make some changes....but I'm not holding my breath.
Most blower applications call for the short snout water pump. that could be the problem.
Not this one, it specifies in the instructions and online that it fits long water pump applications and 2-3 groove v-belt pulleys. Water pump didn't end up being the problem in the end, it was the crank pulley that didn't line up.
just run the gauge infront of oil hole above the water pump or down by the oil filter
Hey there ! I'm in Richmond I was wondering if you had a carb laying around that I could buy ?
For what application, and what are you looking for? I'll probably be hanging onto what I have right now, though.
Fuzzy Dice Projects just a stock 305 in my 78 Camaro ,it has a 4 barrel intake
Yeah, sorry, I don't have anything that would help you out there. Do check Craigslist and Facebook marketplace for cheap carbs though!
It’s kinda late for this but I would just weld the cracks together
That's what you said last time lmmfao
Tap into the oil pan for gauge
I would expect better quality from Holley
A different balancer is what you needed to match that spacer
What sort of balancer would be correct then? I haven't seen one that is an inch thicker than standard in the center section, I looked for something like that but couldn't find one. Either way, if that was the case Holley should have mentioned something about it, the kit is meant to fit an engine with standard parts and accessories.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects if I am not mistaking I thought there was a thicker balancer but i could be wrong.
I could be mistaken but I feel like switching over to a manual transmission (and possibly new gears) would release as much power to the ground as this supercharger adds. Maybe more.
A manual transmission would probably free up 40-50 HP, which would definitely be noticeable. Theoretically the 144 should add 80-100HP on this setup. And a gear change would probably make an even larger difference in acceleration, but I do like the quiet highway driving (for a 3-speed at least).
I went from 2.73 to 3.73 in my camaro and it's a huge difference on acceleration, I have videos of before and after.
Cool, just checked those out. Lovely car!
A weiand super charger intake just went up for auction on ebay
Thanks for the tip, but I don't see it. Don't see anything under ~$600 for a 144, since they use different manifolds than the others.
I saw it on sbc used parts on ebay
My head hurts when someone says crank pulley now .
The spacer for the super charger is spaced for serpentine belt
Then why say it is compatible with V-belts? The instructions and Holley techs claim that the kit, as sold, is compatible with 2 and 3 v-belt systems. I found some other people who run V-belts with theirs, but couldn't figure out what made the fit different.
The original kit prolly came with 2 spacers and the seller left one out
Nope, only one exists as far as I can tell and as far as the Holley techs know. Check out the pictures and parts lists on Holley's website. (www.holley.com/products/superchargers/supercharger/parts/7750-1 ) They only make the one spacer, and it is 2" long.
I did eventually find this pulley on my own, and according to the description it would probably fit. But it sure isn't included in any kit and isn't exactly priced to move. (www.holley.com/products/superchargers/supercharger_components/parts/6810WIN ) (EDIT: Fixed the links)
Take the lock washers off. They are what cracked the manifold.
I must disagree, they increased the surface area of the bolt head to spread the load out more than it would have been, without them the bolts would have dug in further and it might be even worse. I really only used them because flat washers wouldn't fit without trimming (or fit some of the holes at all).
I love junk, but not that manifold!
Perhaps if you used a electronic waterpumper your space car 🚗
You remind me of Chris Fix, which you are as good as he is..
I think the original crank bolt should have been tested to the frontend surface not block side
First let me just say as a note that the heads that are on that engine have probobly been milled and the intake should of been milled as well to fit... if you go back and look at the old intake it can probobly be seen where it was milled... thats why the intake cracked..... but either way take it off and get the intake milled to those heads and get the manifold welded up.... it will be fine..
The previous intake was from Craigslist and had no issues, the engine came with an old cast iron one and I do not believe it had been milled. The block has been decked a little since the serial is a bit wiped, heads might have been too, but I don't know. Nothing so bad that the bolts should have damaged a properly designed and manufactured intake manifold, for sure.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Or maybe the intake from the blower was milled for the last guys heads and that's why it cracked... come to terms with the fact that something is not machined right or it would NOT of cracked like that... I have been in this industry for 40 years really!!
@@835YT I can't find any pictures of the underside, but I believe you are right about the Weiand intake having been machined. From memory I don't think the sealing surfaces were altered, but the ports were messed with a little to help it port match with the previous owner's heads. It's possible it was messed with a bit and not entirely a perfect fit, but check out Episode 2 Part 2 at 15:07 (th-cam.com/video/xoUfCIFVavM/w-d-xo.html) where the intake is test fit without gaskets installed (and a few seconds later, with gaskets). It looks as good as it can on video, if anything the end rails are a little close to the block so it's possible that is part of the issue. Will check it with an angle gauge next time the intake comes off.
But small variances are common and the manufacturer of an aftermarket kit made to fit just about any SBC should have accounted for that and made the material a little bit thicker and/or made room for a proper washer to go under each intake bolt. The Edelbrock Performer that I previously installed (and just about every other intake manifold I've seen for these) has 1/4" of material around every single bolt hole, while these manifolds are 1/16" at the thinnest point and pretty much no points are over 3/16".
Basically, even if variance is at play here, I believe that Weiand should have better designed/produced their intake manifolds to account for that, other than gross oversight or trying to save pennies on material costs I do not know what reason they could have for making that so thin. Their other models of manifolds are built better than that.
Heh, your fitment issues are why its always a good idea to buy a bad engine for mockup ;)
I take it you weren't able to send the manifold back for replacement? Because otherwise, I would seriously look for a different manifold. Getting those cracks already makes me worry about it's build quality and future life over 10,000 miles.
I got all the parts used, and it sure looks like somebody messed with some of the holes on it, so no chance of getting it replaced without just buying a new one. If I end up with leaks, I'll pull it off and fix it up one way or another, but I'm hopeful (to a fault) it will survive.
You should've sent that intake back and had it replaced I'll be dammed if I'm going to give 3 thousand dollars for something that breaks like that
Everyone always says which I won't run higher boost util you grab the peddle with the big pulley idc what you say you will overdrive the piss out that blower I have and will again
wow I am so glad my pulley setup is not like that
That is one downright brutal S10 you have!
thanks man just found your channel yesterday been checking out your videos can't wait to see this thing fire up
Or you can devcon the egr hole and forget making a now hole and inserting a helicoil because a helicopter in aluminum is stronger then threads in steel and forget the egr
Yeah... the "inch" that is always missing... well you lost it when you changed the balancer. You took your original measurements off of the other harmonic balancer.
Check out the beginning of episode 2 part 2 again, the overall height, length that slides over the crankshaft, and thickness of the flange at the threaded holes is the same. It is possible they don't install the exact same distance, but that would be more like a 1/16" difference and no difference between them could account for an entire inch. Think about it this way: the timing tab didn't move, but covers up the same amount of the outer ring on both balancers (again, check ep2 pt2), they have to be very similar.
Aluminum should not be torqued to too many ft pounds! (idk if your manifold is)
I actually torqued it to less than the torque spec in the instruction manual for the supercharger kit (they list 30 ft/lbs, I stopped at 25 because it was cracking already).
Fuzzy Dice Projects My 40 year old aluminum valve covers started cracking at 5 ft pounds. Amazing videos, keep it up man! 👍
older small block water pumps where shorter
True, but it didn't matter for this application. This model of blower was claimed to specifically fit long water pump accessory setups and that didn't end up being the alignment issue anyway, it was the crankshaft pulley that didn't line up.
Cracked manifold? Fuck it and use it right.
Not like it can cause some major issues down the road....
Seriously just buy a different intake manifold. It sucks but oh well better done right the first time
7:18 don't lie man we all know you didn't read the instructions
The bad about these videos are the amount of screaming at the screen while someone is making a miss judgment
You call the Jerry rigging cringe worthy. I call it Roadkill style.
Why would any sane person want to recirculate their exhaust gas?
buy a damm intake..