1978 Firebird Supercharger First Start and Troubleshooting (Ep.5 Part 1 of 4)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- After so many setbacks, it is finally time to hear this newly-supercharged engine run! The little Weiand 144 has been a pain to get setup but maybe we can just start the engine and things will work perfectly! (Spoiler: They don't.)
But we will not be defeated so easily, time to roll our sleeves (back) up and do whatever we have to in order to get this car back on the road!
Timeline of filming: January 24th, 2018 - February 22nd, 2018
Song List (Order of First Appearance):
0:01 Hooky with Sloane - Bird Creek
1:41 Get Back Up - Silent Partner
6:22 Wishing Well - Bird Creek
8:05 Moving Over - Silent Partner
13:32 Keep Dreaming - Topher Mohr and Alex Elena
(All music provided by TH-cam's Audio Library royalty free.)
Thanks for watching, and joining us on this adventure! Please let us know what you think! Consider supporting us via Patreon as well! / fuzzydiceprojects - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
White exhaust valves and glowing headers would make me think lean condition.
Something about hearing these types of engines roar just brings a smile to one's face.
The real MVP is that fox jacket that has been holding up during several builds.
Yep, it is just about the warmest jacket I own and at this point it has gone through so much that I don't feel bad getting it dirtier haha
Question what mods did you have to do to the carb for this build my buddy build one an it’s backfiring
You got a great Edelbrock tech. Not many people out there that will help you with the competitors parts. Glad to finally hear is whine !! Can't wait for the next video. Great job bud!
I’ve now binge watched this whole series simply because I was offered a 144 “for a deal”. Basically I’ve learned that this is way over my head right now, but awesome jobs on the video. Maybe some day down the road I’ll follow suit! Sure would warm up my old C10 build!
get a a/f ratio gauge. takes so much guess work out of carb tuning. well worth the money can also help keep you from blowing up your engine
Damn. I salute you bro. Just watching this video does confirm that time is money and money is time.
You make me nuts, I just finished the Blazer and Jeep and now this. I just love it! The way you work is so methodical and practical, your custom brackets are awesome and work so well. You do a great job and if this is all new to you since the Firebird as i heard you are a fast learner. And what you like and do is really cool. I supercharged (Vortech) a 81 Corvette 355 Roots, a 64 Corvette Coupe 468 Roots B&M, A 98 Corvette LS1 Iron Block Magnuson then a 2015 Chevy SS LS3 with LSA Roots. You are right Blowers are way Cool. I want to build a Blazer like yours but with that Big Block GMC V6 and a 671 Roots blower on top. As soon as my wife lets me!!!! Great stuff thoroughly enjoying your adventures. Thanks for sharing, D
To keep the heat down on my street driven blower vette . I use the vacuum adv. tied into the intake manifold . And if set up right you will get a huge increase in gas milage. I am getting about 24mpg around town with a 671 on a 350 with 2 choke divorced 750 holly double pumpers and the front two pumps are 50 cc each . When under boost just goes to mech curb , works great . Also water injection or washer fluid system is a must have for street driving worth every penny and then some .
As has been said below, your attitude is GREAT! I wish I had learned at your age that, "Everything can't go according to plan." That's a life lesson right there. Love your channel. I will watche you work on anything and be entertained. I even paused the video to read the highlighted segment of the Hollley tech instructions.
I really like your videos. You are such an honest personality, I look forward to more.
Waw! You've been busy! A good thing to tune your mixture would be a wideband sensor on the exhaust. You would know if you're lean and by how much. Good luck and hang in there.
hasbeengood Yeah, I have looked at those many times and when I have the money will probably end up with one to get it tuned well. Seems like a very useful (and neat) tool
6:21 "check for retarded engine timing" I know that doesn't mean dumb timing but still funny
Lol
Hell yeah, I've been waiting for this video
Sounds great! Love your tenacity.
HELL YEAH FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(P.S. love the series, keep it up.)
Amazing video my friend keep them coming love watching them.
You got me excited when i saw new videos of the firebird popped up,time for popcorn,lol
And the white stuff means your burning clean or running lean
crispymuffin 12 I thought tan was the desirable color? They look very white to me, but the light on the camera might be exaggerating that
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Modern fuels make it hard to diagnose via the spark plugs nowadays. You definitely are running on the lean side. A good way to check is to warm up the engine, and rev it and release throttle. Does the RPM "Hang" or does it drop to idle almost immediately? If the RPM hangs before dropping back to idle, it's a bit lean. If its running rich, giving it a bit of throttle, it will come back down quickly and actually dip below idle, then raise back to the correct idle speed.
Sounds like you bought the Edelbrock carb for naturally aspirated engine. The setup is different but the castings are the same, meaning all the adjustment points are setup different. Like the power pistons, those little holes that suck the air with the fuel on the jet circuits, accelerator cam and squirters. Things like that. You could use the Edelbrock carb, you just need to know how to make it into a blower carb which is tedious work. You was better off going with that Holley since it was a blower carb. You did good. Headers was red hot not because of lean or rich mixture but not enough of timing. The fuel/air charge was not done burning in the cylinder and exited the cylinder while still burning, so hotter exhaust. You was maybe 2 or more degrees off. I think you figured it out in a later vid with a recurve on the distributor. Good for you going with a blower. Seems everybody is into turbos nowadays. They don't realize how good blowers work compared to even the best turbo setup.
Eddlebrock carbs are not like Holley carbs. They don't make them boost referenced. You either have to do it yourself or find a specialty shop. For a low boost application, you can get away with running stiffer springs. However adding weight to the secondary flapper and plumbing the carb to see manifold pressure will make tuning much easier and more consistent. I used a spacer plate. Cheap and easy.
Keep up the good work. I really enjoy your videos. Inspires me on my build.
Wow, impressive work around to fix the weights advance!
Man your something else!!👍🏻
Excellent job
Glowing headers are timing. Made the same mistake myself years ago with a H&M’s on startup. More timing! Didn’t hurt nothing, but I learned
Love the tech explanation
good job... enjoyed the hands on aspect....
Sounds so good!
love your car bro keep up the good work
Very good video , good read . I'm about to set up a gm 671 on a mopar 360 . The timing will help me alot .
Thanks for all the knowledge
Great videos sweet car
Good job Pro regards from Holland
more air from the super is causing it to run leaner
I think I'm pulling the trigger on one of these soon.
Been doing old school supercharged engines since the 80's. Especially flathead Fords, a very challenging engine. If the valves are chalky its a sure sign of running too lean. Also go to a cooler heat range spark plug, two ranges cooler. Get a blower carb. Play it safe. Best of luck!
Good job sir,
For anyone wanting to know ... the song in the beginning is called trading in my sun
I give you guys so much credit, damn I wish I had this amount of knowledge of how to work on a car. I just spent 3,200 cash on a Pontiac gtp and turn around and had to put another 1600 in cause my fucking supercharger belt slipped off and jammed my pulleys all up and over heated my shit. Before I know my mechanic is calling me saying you need a new head gasket...oh and new heads...also...new belts, struts are bad, fuel injector harness is goofy, and the list goes on and on lol. Makes me wanna just go to school for the shit
Kristopher Workman got the same car. 05 3.8 supercharged. Our trans blew up so my dad and I rebuild it.
If you know nothing about cars, take the next one to a mechanic before you buy it. Ignorance costs money.
haywood Jay Dude, his belt slipped off. Thats not something that you catch before it happens. It all happens in probably 7 seconds unless the pulley alignment is bad but it should have been fine assuming its a stock engine.
Belts slip off for a reason, typically its the tensioner pulley on those 3.8l's that tend to go bad and need replacing. I've replaced a few myself. Its good practice to have anything you don't know much about checked over by someone that does. Not rude, Its good advice.
If blower came with jolley y would u put elderblock on it?
Easy way for tdc is out your finger in the spark plug hole and wait till all air pushes out then make sure your advance. Also have it tdc before you take it apart
Stuff of Genius
Troubleshooting? Well, first problem I see is that Eldebrock carburetor. They're fine for the street but I had a lot of problems with them randomly stumbling off the line which is exactly what you don't want happening during bracket racing eliminations. We figured it was Eldelbrock's goofy piston/plunger style accelerator pump that was causing the issue. It got so bad we just replaced them before every race and always carried a spare around.
Never had that problem with Holley's diaphragm-style pump.
Yesss
That motor being .60 over. I would be looking for another VIRGIN BLOCK if I were you. I have heard anything over .40 is not good. But dude, you are meticulous in what you do. Wish you lived closer to Virginia cause we would become fast friends.
.060 over is okay for mild stuff, but they do tend to heat unevenly and could have issues with certain setups. Generally, it is fine, but it means the bores cannot be repaired if anything happens since that is as far as is generally considered to be safe.
I can help. I ran a B&M 144 on a 355 SBC for many years and lots of passes at the track. 12.0 at 113mph with a worn out used blower. It ran best at 30 degrees total timing locked out. I tried many carbs and it liked a Holley 950HP the best. If you have any questions, just message me!
Awesome, thanks for the offer!
PS. Blowers make headers glow cherry red. Its normal, but the suggestions on my last comment will help a lot. When I was a pilot flying Twin Beech and DC-3 types with highly supercharged radial engines it was shocking how red the exhaust pipes got and the flames coming out were always purple and blue. This was at night. The first time I saw this was on takeoff and it shook me up. But its normal.
I had that same exact 78’ bird
Hell ya. not first!
badass
get a wideband o2 kit and tune your air/fuel ratio.
So when will we see you and a friend take the 78 Firebird and S-10 Blazer to the drag strip and see which is faster?
it's the ignition module in that first distributor. take the module to a parts store that has a machine to check it for faults.
I really don't think so, as it worked just fine previously. I actually swapped it out when troubleshooting, as well, with no change.
what made sense was either your module or coil was causing the no start. i see you reused the same coil on the new dist.
some auto parts stores do test those components for free, but that new $45.00 distributor was a cheaper fix.
Dude, box it up and take it to Crazy Rays on route 40 in Edgewood. All this problems, having to rig this, that, this and that, just buy a turbo and hit the road. I get it, yeah yeah every one wants to be the Road Warrior in Mad Max 2 with the blower kick ass classic car but I would have had a heart attack after the cracked intake bolt holes.
You should get sheets of exhaust wrap. It will save your engine and externals. It's easy to install.
Next time the headers are out I do want to wrap them, need to add at least one bung for the wideband O2 sensor anyway. The exhaust heat is definitely unpleasant on the floorboards if nothing else.
Shaker style hood with a tall k&n for air
The headers look like flow techs
I like your videos watched a bunch, I would say putting cheaper parts on with expensive you're building a lot of power, u need to just buy higher quality race parts or it's gunna blow up. Maybe not pro quality but better than Craigslist. But u already know that I'm sure. Watching next vid.. keep it up !!
Haha, yeah I have an idea. It might well blow this engine up, but I don't think in the way I originally feared since with the highway gears it barely gets above 4500 RPM. But, as long as the blower survives whatever happens it isn't such a big loss since the parts are so cheap!
Fuzzy Dice Projects you're so modest dude, you got the skills to build a real race car...or NASCAR not downing what u have created I'll tell u I couldn't do it...keep going !!!
I have the same setup with 383 forged.. ı am running 36 total timing. It is great. 30 is a little retarted.. my engine runs cool thanks to alüminium radiator and 4779-7 double pumper holley carb. I have 2.55 upper 6 lower pulley..
the 104 octane has maybe lead as an aditive!! and it burns white or light grey.?
distributor drive gear was from v6 I saw that when you installed it
They are turning white due to a much higher air to fuel ratio. That is a ton of air being forced into the cylenders so it is getting more fuel. So yep, alot hotter.
last time I fucked up timing super badly I wound up like 270 out and it was started and idled BARELY (dodge 318), but wound up spitting so much fuel into the muffler that when I shut the truck off I grenaded the muffler.
Neighbor ran out because he swore someone got shot.
My JCW mini's single screw blower is making a dying wookee noise. Nobody makes a replacement OEM or rebuilds them (they're weiand too) so my only option is going to be a twin screw... to the tune of about $3000.
Funny as shit!
i thought the extra mass of the fuel laden air and the extended duration of the burn would transfer heat out to the exhaust. additionally if its lean the burn finishes prematurely keeping the majority of heat in the cylinder longer, thusly increasing engine temps. idk
I wonder if packing it full of grease would help at all or is this not something that could be done 🤔 not sure if these parts are under pressure from the blower itself or if it is just a rotating assembly in which case packed full of grease would give it a bit of a buffer and possibly eliminate most of that rattle 🤷♂️
Fuel
I would love to run across this on the street just to see it in person.
Hi octane racing fuel does indeed do that to your exhaust valves and exhaust.instead of black carbon it'll be a grayish whitish ash
Interesting, thanks for the info!
The engine is really snappy and sounds great. Did that little supercharger really make much more power? I mean, it looks really cool and nostalgic, but did it create much more power than a healthy high compression NA setup? I really like the scoop.
On the right setup they can make good power, but since they are small they run out of breath before 600hp. It definitely added a lot even on this engine that isn't built for it, but I don't know how much, probably 100hp or less. I'm sure an NA SBC engine could be built to beat my setup without too much money or trouble, certain LS engines do it in stock form, but superchargers are just plain cool.
Big difference is torque and power under the curve
I suggest you secure or cut off those hoodie drawstrings before you get your face pulled into the rotating pieces when one of them gets caught in a belt etc.
A good fan shroud will help a little bit with heat. Are your plugs running hot as well? Or is it just the manifold?
Plugs look okay, at least no obvious overheating. Haven't seemed to have any problems since getting it tuned a bit better and I think I was just looking too hard to find a problem that wasn't much of one.
I'm sure you have figured it out by now but if you have a 350 that's bored .060 over isn't it more like a 383 stroker. Could cause lean conditions with a carb for a 350
A 350 that is 0.060 over has a displacement of around 360ci. Not exactly a 383, but a bit more than stock. Shouldn't be enough to matter too much as far as the tune, that carb should be plenty for it.
It's not stroked so not a 383
I think you may be running lean which is creating the white residue, did you richen up the mix?
oops should have finished the video before commenting lol
Yes higher octane fuels will cause white bean on the exhaust valves but it should cause a little whitening on the intake valve a lot of heat will cause a lot of whitening is your Pistons starting to go to the same color and if not remove or bust out the catalytic converters underneath the car it should allow a little bit more air flow and not a whole lot more back pressure which will allow to Cherry redness of the headers or manifold is not to occur in some of the whitening to go down
It has 2 1/2" pipes and aftermarket mufflers, that is the entire exhaust. Shouldn't be restricted (unless the headers are) except maybe a tiny bit at WOT.
Too many big words. What is a carb? Carbohydrate?
Sean Liu carburetor
luis carburetor
Jeremy Smith thanks
Got it, carbohydrate
The Master Commenter r/woooosh
Did you install an MSD 6A? Since it looks like your building budget, that would be the best thing to run with a Electronic ignition.
Nope, still running the HEI setup. Even a 6A was out of my budget at the time
Is edelbrock right for any application? I've quit messing with them, even when you get it the best it can be, any other carb. is still better?
Edelbrock carbs are made by Weber, I think. Weber has been making carbs for a while. Quite a while.
Ever wished you had simply put in a bigger cubic capacity block to get more performance rather than all the dicking around you have had to be involved with on this supercharging project? Good job you are a patient chap! Greetings from snowy Scotland by the way.
Not really, because I have always wanted to try out a supercharger. Big blocks are great, and it's possible one will end up in there eventually, but this project, while more work than I expected, has given me just what I wanted: a blown engine to play with!
that carb is too small for that application
BelowAmbient I changed it for a Holley 780 at the end of the video since it was the lean 1411 Edelbrock, but a 750 should be fine here. Any bigger and it won't do as well low-end and this isn't a very high revving setup. 750 is what Holley recommends for a 350 with the 144 blower, so a 750/780cfm for the 360ci here should definitely be enough.
Te harmonic balanced outer ring is mounted in rubber they can slip so that the pointer is off.
It is possible, but since it looks to be in good shape I'm pretty sure it's just the cheap-o timing tab that caused it to be about a degree off (that is covered in the video after this one)
How do you actually measure the mechanical advance in degrees?
When limiting it? Guess and check, mostly. Tried to do it with a protractor but I guess there are enough variables in the system that that wasn't very accurate. If you mean how to actually check it with the timing light, pretty much just get your initial number (with vacuum advance disconnected), then rev the engine until it stops advancing to get your total timing. Total - initial = mechanical advance. Of course, if your idle is high enough that it starts advancing, you can remove the weights or install the stiffest springs to be sure there is no mechanical at idle. Standard setups will be all-in by around 3k RPM so don't rev the engine any higher in Park/Neutral than necessary.
I have sunoco 110 octane in my ktm 690. My entire exhaust is white because of the lead
I got a question I want to add boost to my car but I don’t know what to put in it because I still want to daily drive it it’s a 91 firebird 5.0 any suggestions of what type of supercharger I can put in it or what size of turbo I can put in it. Love your videos keep it up
If you want to keep it fuel injected, I really don't know. Maybe some turbo setup with a custom ECU? Wish I could be more helpful. I don't know anything about more modern superchargers than these because I see the price tag and run away!
eber214 you could always go roadkill style and get a powerstroke diesel turbo and make it work with a custom ECU
Did anyone notice is voice crack at like 3:29
Lean as I watch and comment I should shut it
I also see a problem with your spark plug wires shorting out at the 12 minute mark from dark to light you can just see it...🧐
Hey do you live in the same town as corvette Ben? You sound identical
Perhaps you have the V6 ignition module in the Frankenstein distributor
I wondered that, but figured there wouldn't be any operational difference. Looked into it and they are the same unit, part numbers are the same so it shouldn't be the problem.
KICKER IN THE GUTZ BARRY
It's only a noise run it it won't hurt it
Ck left side intake valve exhaust valve rocking that's number on tdc try it again
Lean a/f mixture
Dude!
A white valve like that typically means it is running really lean
Yes it’s lean
I just rescued a 78 fire chicken from a yard how much did you spend on your Edelbrock carburetor?
The 750CFM 1411 on there came with it, just needed a cleaning since it had been sitting on there for a while. Should be able to get one for under $100 on Craigslist in pretty good shape, but always a good idea to rebuild an unknown carb. The 1406 I have was around $20, but it's not a looker.
a wide band o2 sensor is mandatory otherwise you are just guessing
Where do you get all your torque values from?
Anywhere that has them! Internet forums, repositories, Haynes/service manuals, instructions, or just an old fashioned guess based on fastener size and materials!
Rule#1 in hot rodding :
Never go for cheap .
Go for quality , avoid e-bay and Craigslist .
The holley will work a Lot better for this app because of being on the rich side at idle. If headers are glowing it's lean. Use lower heat range plugs. The smaller roots that are serpentine belt driven are designed to slip the belt if a backfire should occur. Back to the lean condition. Since roots blowers spin fast they create heat thus heating the air going into cylinders. Potentially destroying valve seals and guides. So by using your holley carb your putting more fuel in automatically. Remember gas the liquid cools and the vapor is what burns. Check out my channel. I set up a 177 blower on my dragster.