00:00 Intro 10:03 Jack-(CA) | Rebuttal To The Problem Of Evil 32:00 Max-(RU) | How Do I Help? 34:50 Mike-SC | GoingTo Hell For Being Gay 1:12:32 Kelvin-FL | Trans Identity Perpetuating Stereotypes 1:27:33 Vic-TX | Bible As A Book Of Laws 1:42:11 Jackie-MS | Christian Values Are Better 2:10:55 Nate-NY | Deconstruction List 2:18:42 Kevin-MA | Sexual Dimorphism
On the call with Jack, he made the analogy with the aquarium manager. That falls short because somebody who " did everything right" understands to separate the aggressive fish from the more social species
@@medalion1390 Friday is fish ... 'ol Catholic rule and tradition practiced here in Germany. (I'm glad that this is not a "law" anymore and the manager has to serve OTTER ("Fisch-otter" in German) on Fridays !!! Because they swim and live in the water, the clerics declared them as FISH! ... which of course lead to their nearly full and partial extinction in our latitudes. Another example that faith is a bad thing ... in the real world and aquariums!). I wish you all a good one and healthy fish:) P.S.: Does anyone else think that I sound like a Monty Python Episode? Hehehehe
Jack should be congratulated for being honest enough to say he dies not have all the answers and that he needs to think about the question more. I think he just started a journey.
Yes that was good to see, but man oh man the hosts sure had to drag him through a lot of mud for quite a while before he could start seeing just a little bit of light from the other side.
@@casparuskruger4807it’s the years and years of brainwashing/indoctrination that’s hard for them to get away from. It took a Forrest Valkai and Dr. Ben to put things into perspective for me. I love how plainly they put things.
I definitely feel like some people are more able to be reached than others. Every day I try and listen to try and examine my own self; does anyone else see religion as -- mostly -- trauma? There was a point where... It sounded like the argument being made was that God effectively put a double bind on queer individuals: Be gay and authentic but don't express yourself. A double bind is damned if you do, damned if you do not? Just rambling out loud.
I love how Mike keeps referring to the “Thanos” problem like it’s remotely an actual thing… if I had an Infinity Gauntlet, do you know what I’d do _instead_ of erasing half the population? How about doubling the resources for a start?
@user-u9g8m Perhaps I don't understand, since I didn't watch the Eternals, but I don't see how that's a rebuttal to Thanos comment. Even if I were to grant the assumption, are they still able to propagate and are they taking in unrenwable resources of finite supply? If so, then that's not a defeater, but also, that still doesn't account for the species of other planets as a whole still being a big detriment to the universe. So the Eternals, seems to be a red herring in all this, but I will fully admit I don't know much about the Eternals or how this fits into the whole Thanos shtick.
Good example of why Thanos' plan was pretty stupid. I wish they'd included the part of his character from the comics where he was literally in love with Death. Actual Death, like the physical embodiment of Death (like from Sandman but not as hot). He is in love with her, but she doesn't care for him. So he kills half the universe as a sort of nuptial gift (which she's still not impressed by). In the movie, it would at least explain better why he chose the death solution instead of the more-resources solution.
It’s good and important of the hosts that they hammered the caller down hard to stick to the position they espoused instead of just moulding their position to suit whatever objection the hosts have. That’s very important in problem of evil discussions.
Mike from SC: from a quick Google search, “No, Russia does not require atheism as a class, but it does have a mandatory course on world religions and secular ethics in public schools. The course is offered to fourth and fifth graders, and parents can choose from six religious options. Orthodox Christianity Islam Judaism Buddhism Secular ethics World religions”
I went to an international school in Italy and it worked pretty much the same, except that they also had Roman Catholic as an option. Our version of Secular ethics was called “Morale” but the teacher couldn’t really be bothered so we used to just mainly watch vhs tapes of Mr Bean.
@@VanHalenIsolated I think he may have been referencing someone from Russia when it was still part of the USSR. Just my best guess as why he would think ultra Catholic Russia is atheist.
I'm lucky enough to relieve disability benefits in my country so I donated what I can and hope that it helps in some small way. My heart breaks for humanity lately. Goodluck to anyone over there. ❤
I miss the good-old days of AXP with Matt, Tracy and Jeff Dee, but the way they disarmed Jackie could easily end up being a legendary call to be run on repeat for years to come. Well done! Empathy beats philosophy namedropping.
Vic’s call was a perfect example of someone who promotes the Bible and hasn’t read it but at least he recognized that and admitted he was wrong. Pretty cool
I swear to Glob, I've never seen anyone having an existential /cognitive dissonance breakdown any worse than Jackie trying to stand up to you Forrest & Dr Ben simple reasoning, Love you guys 🥰
@Mike from Scandalous Crawfish: You told us to go argue with your deity. Please let us know how to do so. We've been attempting to hold yhwh accountable for thousands of years, and no one can get us a line to it. Feel free to help out when possible.
Jack, the government of my country continually pass laws restricting smoking. The only reason they don't ban it, is it generates massive amounts of tax.
Also black market suppression. As seen with cannabis and alcohol, banning something only stops so many people and might even harm studies into useful medical applications.
@@carstekoch the studies into medical uses, *absolutely*! Like mushrooms for depression, studies show such good promise, but just getting those studies has been so difficult because they put it on schedule 1. Same with cannabis studies. We could have had medicine making massive improvements in people's lives for decades but NOOOOOOOO drug make feel good so it bad! As a person with severe anxiety and depression, it makes me so goddamn angry that I've been denied a potentially vastly improved quality of life (I've been on so many antidepressants that did nothing to help me, so many anxiolytics that have done nothing to help me). It would still make me angry even if it wasn't personal because it's harming other people, too, of course, just the way it's pissing me off how pain patients are treated and people left suffering in pain because of the crusade against pain meds when the studies actually show that's not a high risk populace for addiction, and that it's primarily street drugs that are the problem. Maybe safe, regulated, accessible drugs would curb the street drug problem and associated death, crime, and black markets. But NOOOOOOOO, let's fight an endless "drug war" while people suffer and die.
Even though I have donated via Forrest's Roll for Initiagive campaign, I still look the same. I was going to get upset about the 13% more handsome claims but then clued into the other possibility; which is fair. I love that Dr. Ben was here for a Doctors without Borders show and I hope he is able to work with them soon. Re: Jack.... Growing up, I remember the commercials requesting assistance for the parents who chose to not feed the children (/s). All my life I have known about parts of the world where people don't have food security and the fact they and their children are suffering is not the fault of those people. I'm so happy that Jack admitted he needs to think about things. This show is amazing.
@Mike: When you say "we all deserve to go to hell", please, PLEASE consider the fact that you are thinking that as result of being conditioned into having a low self-esteem by a religion that tells you you are a terrible person. It is often referred to as a lesson in being humble, but this is WAY beyond humility, this is self-loathing. But by portraying the notion of self-loathing as if it's humility, they are trying to sell it as if it's a noble state of mind to be in, when in reality it is probably put in the bible because the writers knew this would make people easier to manipulate.
😳 If the voice wasn't so clearly of flesh and blood, I'd 1000% believe he was a bot. Or an AI trained solely on pseudo philosophy and right wing podcasts
Every time they asked him something his immediate response was "Well, _this_ philosopher said..." like it was some kind of security blanket he refused to let go of.
I have no idea how you two guys had so much patience for Mike. He was so clearly not thinking about what you were saying, and trying to push his script as quickly as he could. You were far more respectful than I would have been.
Telling people you're religious without saying you're religious: When your neighbor's kid started weekly Dungeons & Dragons sessions, you moved your family to a different city.
Now, that was truly beautiful. That was by far, the most productive episode in the history of your podcast. He did’nt double down, he did’nt obfuscate n come up w/lame ass excuses, he genuinely re-assessed his position in real time!😱 that was truly significant
Jackie needs to learn about the fact that many social species have a sense of morality, a sense of fairness, experience many common emotions that we humans do. Having a moral sense is simply based on living in a group of others of your species and thriving.
Tell me you’re religious without telling me you’re religious: "Every weekend I meet up with certain select people from the neighborhood in a big fancy building, to supplicate myself before a statue of a man being tortured to death, and participate in a mock cannibal ritual. You know, like all decent, proper, upstanding citizens do."
Thanks a bloody lot, I had to look up what Stryper was🤨 Now I'm looking for something that will help remove that info from my mind, I'm sure I have some Johnnie Walker Blue left.
He doesn't understand that the important thing is _what's_ being said, as opposed to who said it. If I was trying to convince someone that gravity was real, I'd start by explaining the actual science behind it... I wouldn't say "Have you heard of Sir Issac Newton? Well he said there's this thing called gravity"
Jackie is just another EXPERT on sexuality, sex and gender. Scientists studying the brain, including concerning sex preferences, need to get with the religious people like Jackie, who I'm sure has a Nobel prize for explaining the human sexuality of being. I want that knowledge. The world needs it.
@@HOLDYFFOLDSare you one of those deluded folks who think atheism is a religion? Can you please explain? Considering atheism is just the lack of belief in a god or gods and LITERALLY nothing else, I’m looking forward to your answer.
Both Jack and Mike try to use the freewill argument. But if everything is according to some god's will, then you don't get to be selective on what everything means.
My favorite response to “he had to allow evil to have his creations attain free will” is “does free will exist in heaven? Does evil exist in heaven? So then he can and did create a universe wherein freewill can exist in an absence of evil..he just decided to to throw us into this shitty beta version to fuck with us” lol
People want to propagate the quote/idea of “all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing,” EXCEPT when it comes to a tri-omni god… 🙄
2:13:49 I was raised in a pretty strict Quaker/Protestant home and my mother was big on not working on the Sabbath, but I was taught it was about engaging in commerce and economics over not doing anything of even limited effort like ripping toilet paper. That's so extreme, and if logically drawn out, do you also have to only drink water because chewing food is effort? Turning a doorknob? Putting on clothes? Brush your teeth? If something as small as tearing a sheet of toilet paper is too much work, there's not much you could do other than lay in bed staring at the ceiling without crossing a line 😂
We need more callers like Jack and Vic; they actually listen to the hosts, and didn't dig in their heels when they were proven wrong. We need less callers like Mike and Jackie, who, when corrected, seems like they were just following a script, and dug in their heels when they were called out.
My husband's coworker was arrested for domestic violence. But he said he only hit his wife below the waist on the legs as was his right. He was the head of the house, and it was his job to teach her. While he was in jail, he asked for his pastor who would not visit or counsel him. It was my husband who was there to help him.
21:00 What a bad example. It is up to the aquarium keepers to make sure all the exhibits are healthy. The keepers of the aquarium isn't going to put sea lions in the general fish population. The keepers of the aquarium isn't going to put sharks next to prey animal. So yes, it is totally the aquarium manager's fault if the fishes end up killing each other because that is zoo keeping 101. Don't put predators in the same enclosures as prey animals. God puts murderers next to victims all the time. I wouldn't trust god to manage an aquarium or zoo.
😅 It would probably blow his mind to learn that some scientists have caught evidence of well-developed fetuses touching themselves in the womb. Humans evolved with the potential (not the certainty) of procreation. And what that means is that sexuality is inborn, not taught. What _needs_ to be taught are the understandings and knowledge that will allow the child to navigate their inborn sexuality safely and happily. And so, all these religious conservatives do by denying children honest, open, and age-appropriate sex education, is endangering them with enforced ignorance. 🤷🏾♀️ (Kind of explains why child abuse in religious groups are higher, the abuser takes advantage of the child's lack of knowledge and their indoctrinated shame, fear, and silence around the topic of sex, in order to decieve and manipulate the child into staying quiet).
I'm really happy with how you both took the absolute wind out of Jackie's sails and exposed him for the parroting child that he is. He doesn't understand this stuff, he just sees that JP gets away with it using flowery language and prose to obfuscate the bad ideas, so he does the same thing because he has aspirations to be just like JP. He knows some philosophers names and understands just enough to barely comprehend the stuff he's reading.... But as soon as you bring him down to a lay person level where he needs to make the ideas digestible...it falls apart as the incoherent mess that it is and really shows what the actual basis of his beliefs are. Nothing but faith and bigotry, just like the cowards he props up on pedestals.
1:20:00 I like to liken it to language. I hope this makes sense to someone other than me 😅 Babies speak the same language as their caregivers for a reason. We may want to express ourselves beyond the bounds of our Mother Tongue, and we do so with new words and slang (RE: "Femboy", "Enby", "Skibidi") but we're constrained in society by our need to communicate. for instance, I could come up with a totally new word to express myself with, but I can't will people to understand it without explaining my word in detail. but, eventually, other people may use and understand that word, and maybe i can use my personal word to describe myself and people will understand it. (again, see "Femboy" or "Enby"). we have to do both in order to function: be ourselves and operate in society. this is like speaking a language (operating in society) and also want to be oneself and not conforming (needing new words). eventually, this opposition will erode to being just an outlier and your lay person will be able to respect peoples pronouns, names, and life experiences as easy as they do just birth names, or a married name today. just like we use those words that used to be slang as "proper English" in modern times. 🏳🌈🏳⚧|🟨⬜🟪⬛
How to tell you im religiouswithout saying im religious: 'd like to go eat with yall today, but Joel Osteen needs my 10% so he can make his next payment on his Lambo...
Personally, I think people are way too worried about others when they should be working on themselves. Spiritually, mentally and physically. Contemplate from withing, study and work out. That should leave little time trying to get in other people's lives.
Mike is one of those dishonest callers who hem, haw, and try to avoid answering every question he is uncomfortable with. He knows his answer is going to make him look anywhere from silly, to a total jerk, so he has to avoid it. I had to laugh when he said 'Common, hit me with them' when asking for questions, when he CLEARLY had worked hard to avoid answering other questions. He can't even answer the basic questions without squirming.
00:00 Intro
10:03 Jack-(CA) | Rebuttal To The Problem Of Evil
32:00 Max-(RU) | How Do I Help?
34:50 Mike-SC | GoingTo Hell For Being Gay
1:12:32 Kelvin-FL | Trans Identity Perpetuating Stereotypes
1:27:33 Vic-TX | Bible As A Book Of Laws
1:42:11 Jackie-MS | Christian Values Are Better
2:10:55 Nate-NY | Deconstruction List
2:18:42 Kevin-MA | Sexual Dimorphism
Tell me you’re religious without telling me you’re religious: You attend a book club that’s been stuck on the same book for years.
😂😂😂
You attend a book club that’s been stuck on the same book for years and disagree about it’s contents constantly
...and tell each other it doesn't say what it says.
On the call with Jack, he made the analogy with the aquarium manager. That falls short because somebody who " did everything right" understands to separate the aggressive fish from the more social species
Yeah, the entire premise of his analogy was contradictory.
@@medalion1390 Friday is fish ... 'ol Catholic rule and tradition practiced here in Germany.
(I'm glad that this is not a "law" anymore and the manager has to serve OTTER ("Fisch-otter" in German) on Fridays !!! Because they swim and live in the water, the clerics declared them as FISH! ... which of course lead to their nearly full and partial extinction in our latitudes. Another example that faith is a bad thing ... in the real world and aquariums!).
I wish you all a good one and healthy fish:)
P.S.: Does anyone else think that I sound like a Monty Python Episode? Hehehehe
Jack should be congratulated for being honest enough to say he dies not have all the answers and that he needs to think about the question more. I think he just started a journey.
Yes that was good to see, but man oh man the hosts sure had to drag him through a lot of mud for quite a while before he could start seeing just a little bit of light from the other side.
@@casparuskruger4807it’s the years and years of brainwashing/indoctrination that’s hard for them to get away from. It took a Forrest Valkai and Dr. Ben to put things into perspective for me. I love how plainly they put things.
I think you meant "does" not "dies"
I agree with you that Jack is being honest with himself, I hope he continues to actually investigate his beliefs.
I definitely feel like some people are more able to be reached than others. Every day I try and listen to try and examine my own self; does anyone else see religion as -- mostly -- trauma? There was a point where... It sounded like the argument being made was that God effectively put a double bind on queer individuals: Be gay and authentic but don't express yourself. A double bind is damned if you do, damned if you do not? Just rambling out loud.
Mike: I don't like when people smuggle in different points.
Also Mike: smuggles in a bunch of different points.
This is such an incredible team. My favorite boys! Such a wealth of knowledge between them.
I love how Mike keeps referring to the “Thanos” problem like it’s remotely an actual thing… if I had an Infinity Gauntlet, do you know what I’d do _instead_ of erasing half the population? How about doubling the resources for a start?
The dumb think about Thanos getting rid of half the population is that he only buys everyone one generation of time. It's not a solution.
@user-u9g8m Perhaps I don't understand, since I didn't watch the Eternals, but I don't see how that's a rebuttal to Thanos comment. Even if I were to grant the assumption, are they still able to propagate and are they taking in unrenwable resources of finite supply? If so, then that's not a defeater, but also, that still doesn't account for the species of other planets as a whole still being a big detriment to the universe.
So the Eternals, seems to be a red herring in all this, but I will fully admit I don't know much about the Eternals or how this fits into the whole Thanos shtick.
Thanos just wanted to bang Mistress Death
Thanos could simply have erased the memories of the remaining half and no harm would have been done... apart from the genocide bit of course.
Good example of why Thanos' plan was pretty stupid. I wish they'd included the part of his character from the comics where he was literally in love with Death. Actual Death, like the physical embodiment of Death (like from Sandman but not as hot). He is in love with her, but she doesn't care for him. So he kills half the universe as a sort of nuptial gift (which she's still not impressed by). In the movie, it would at least explain better why he chose the death solution instead of the more-resources solution.
How easily u guys convince your opponents without being aggressive or arrogant!!❤❤
You can hear it in Vic's voice when he actually reads the Bible for the first time.
He was shook.
I'm happy to have seen that, could almost hear the brain re-set 🤣
Almost none of them have actually read the bible.
I wasn't sure if I believed the "Christians haven't read the Bible" til that moment. wow
@@katiebarber407 atheists read the Bible, Christians get told the bible
Jackie, I beg you. Read as many philosophers as you like, but stop letting them think for you.
I would ask Jackie to stop reading and go meet some people and get some life experience to temper his philosophy "knowledge".
@joelonsdale He's using the ultimate argument from authority fallacy. "I'm well-read in Philosopy, so my arguments can't be wrong".
I would like Jackie to actually read something and not get knowledge from podcasts.
A single hand helping is worth more than a billion hands folded in prayer.
It’s good and important of the hosts that they hammered the caller down hard to stick to the position they espoused instead of just moulding their position to suit whatever objection the hosts have. That’s very important in problem of evil discussions.
U guys r really amazing!!❤❤ I'm an atheist and your words soothes my mind ❤❤
This show was awesomely handled by both of you guys, cheers!
Mike from SC: from a quick Google search, “No, Russia does not require atheism as a class, but it does have a mandatory course on world religions and secular ethics in public schools. The course is offered to fourth and fifth graders, and parents can choose from six religious options.
Orthodox Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism
Secular ethics
World religions”
I went to an international school in Italy and it worked pretty much the same, except that they also had Roman Catholic as an option. Our version of Secular ethics was called “Morale” but the teacher couldn’t really be bothered so we used to just mainly watch vhs tapes of Mr Bean.
@@VanHalenIsolated I think he may have been referencing someone from Russia when it was still part of the USSR. Just my best guess as why he would think ultra Catholic Russia is atheist.
Mike begins call: Satan is the prince of this world, Satan runs the world. Ends with: This God's house God's rules😂
Forrest and DR. Ben make a good team. They should pair them more often.
I'm lucky enough to relieve disability benefits in my country so I donated what I can and hope that it helps in some small way. My heart breaks for humanity lately. Goodluck to anyone over there. ❤
I miss the good-old days of AXP with Matt, Tracy and Jeff Dee, but the way they disarmed Jackie could easily end up being a legendary call to be run on repeat for years to come. Well done! Empathy beats philosophy namedropping.
Vic’s call was a perfect example of someone who promotes the Bible and hasn’t read it but at least he recognized that and admitted he was wrong. Pretty cool
Jackie stripped to his bare nonsense
I swear to Glob, I've never seen anyone having an existential /cognitive dissonance breakdown any worse than Jackie trying to stand up to you Forrest & Dr Ben simple reasoning, Love you guys 🥰
Every time you pray, you are telling your god that his plan sucks.
@Mike from Scandalous Crawfish: You told us to go argue with your deity. Please let us know how to do so. We've been attempting to hold yhwh accountable for thousands of years, and no one can get us a line to it. Feel free to help out when possible.
Scandalous Crawfish are currently touring Australia. Best strip show I’ve ever seen. Messy stage afterwards, though.
Jackie... like playing chess with a pigeon
Ben got it spot-on when he called him out for just reading a script that he doesn’t fully understand himself.
I heard Forrest's intro for the line 22 call at 1:42:11 and said outloud, "Don't tell me it's Jackie..." 😂 yup...
Jack, the government of my country continually pass laws restricting smoking.
The only reason they don't ban it, is it generates massive amounts of tax.
Also black market suppression. As seen with cannabis and alcohol, banning something only stops so many people and might even harm studies into useful medical applications.
@@carstekoch the studies into medical uses, *absolutely*! Like mushrooms for depression, studies show such good promise, but just getting those studies has been so difficult because they put it on schedule 1. Same with cannabis studies. We could have had medicine making massive improvements in people's lives for decades but NOOOOOOOO drug make feel good so it bad! As a person with severe anxiety and depression, it makes me so goddamn angry that I've been denied a potentially vastly improved quality of life (I've been on so many antidepressants that did nothing to help me, so many anxiolytics that have done nothing to help me).
It would still make me angry even if it wasn't personal because it's harming other people, too, of course, just the way it's pissing me off how pain patients are treated and people left suffering in pain because of the crusade against pain meds when the studies actually show that's not a high risk populace for addiction, and that it's primarily street drugs that are the problem.
Maybe safe, regulated, accessible drugs would curb the street drug problem and associated death, crime, and black markets. But NOOOOOOOO, let's fight an endless "drug war" while people suffer and die.
Even though I have donated via Forrest's Roll for Initiagive campaign, I still look the same. I was going to get upset about the 13% more handsome claims but then clued into the other possibility; which is fair. I love that Dr. Ben was here for a Doctors without Borders show and I hope he is able to work with them soon.
Re: Jack.... Growing up, I remember the commercials requesting assistance for the parents who chose to not feed the children (/s). All my life I have known about parts of the world where people don't have food security and the fact they and their children are suffering is not the fault of those people. I'm so happy that Jack admitted he needs to think about things. This show is amazing.
What are you talking about. I think you are more handsome! Although 13% seems a bit low I would argue at least 15%.
It’ll be a great day when Jackie Kant call anymore.
See what I did there…
Descartes me away...
I guess philosopher puns is your Nietzsche.
I Kierk(r)egaard puns as low Hume(er)
@@kainuscorevax3875 lol
Top Marx for that pun 👍
Masterclass guys.
At this point, I'm convinced Jackie is a troll who is just playing Jordan Peterson bingo.
"Transcendental, "substrate", "logos"... lol 😂
Come on Vic. You're almost there. Keep reading and you will be free!
Excellent job with Jackie guys. Well done.
Hooray for Dr. Ben and Forrest!! I love Doctors Without Borders!!❤❤❤
@Mike: When you say "we all deserve to go to hell", please, PLEASE consider the fact that you are thinking that as result of being conditioned into having a low self-esteem by a religion that tells you you are a terrible person. It is often referred to as a lesson in being humble, but this is WAY beyond humility, this is self-loathing. But by portraying the notion of self-loathing as if it's humility, they are trying to sell it as if it's a noble state of mind to be in, when in reality it is probably put in the bible because the writers knew this would make people easier to manipulate.
Love these two, and appreciate what they are doing here.
At least Jackie can't be accused of plagiarism; he loves citing sources. He just needs to learn to do some thinking of his own to go with it.
🤣 very true and given that young Jackie is a Noahide (Bnei Noah) only proves that he has been indoctrinated by total tossers.
😳 If the voice wasn't so clearly of flesh and blood, I'd 1000% believe he was a bot. Or an AI trained solely on pseudo philosophy and right wing podcasts
Every time they asked him something his immediate response was "Well, _this_ philosopher said..." like it was some kind of security blanket he refused to let go of.
I have no idea how you two guys had so much patience for Mike. He was so clearly not thinking about what you were saying, and trying to push his script as quickly as he could. You were far more respectful than I would have been.
Blame the victim is a long tradition in the US.
Telling people you're religious without saying you're religious: When your neighbor's kid started weekly Dungeons & Dragons sessions, you moved your family to a different city.
Tell me you’re religious without telling me you’re religious: “Sunday? Sorry, I can’t, I have plans.”
I mean, my plans for Sunday are watching Talk Heathen and AXP, so...
@@mirandarensberger6919I guess I’m one of those people who prefers not to catch it live (no time stamps).
@@Leith_Crowther Right there with you. I can also listen at faster speed.
HOLYEFFIN'OMG DR. BEN AND FORREST'S HANDLING OF JACKIE MOVED ME FROM 6-TO-9 AS THEY SAY
Now, that was truly beautiful. That was by far, the most productive episode in the history of your podcast. He did’nt double down, he did’nt obfuscate n come up w/lame ass excuses, he genuinely re-assessed his position in real time!😱 that was truly significant
Jackie needs to learn about the fact that many social species have a sense of morality, a sense of fairness, experience many common emotions that we humans do. Having a moral sense is simply based on living in a group of others of your species and thriving.
LOVED the honesty
Telling people you're religious without saying you're religious: You fall to your knees a lot while watching sporting events.
Tell me you’re religious without telling me you’re religious:
"Every weekend I meet up with certain select people from the neighborhood in a big fancy building, to supplicate myself before a statue of a man being tortured to death, and participate in a mock cannibal ritual. You know, like all decent, proper, upstanding citizens do."
How to tell someone you're religious without telling them you're religious: "My favorite band from the 80s is Stryper."
Thanks a bloody lot, I had to look up what Stryper was🤨
Now I'm looking for something that will help remove that info from my mind, I'm sure I have some Johnnie Walker Blue left.
@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 Sorry, Ook. You might need a full lobotomy to get rid of that information. I'm not sure it can be done chemically.
Ok...I did like them. Guilty as charged.
But van halen is my fav
Tell me you're religious without telling me you're religious. "Not coming in on Monday, on account of the world having already fallen."
🤣👍
Jackie doesn’t seem to comprehend that no one cares about the big name philosophers he’s day dreaming about!!!!
He doesn't understand that the important thing is _what's_ being said, as opposed to who said it.
If I was trying to convince someone that gravity was real, I'd start by explaining the actual science behind it... I wouldn't say "Have you heard of Sir Issac Newton? Well he said there's this thing called gravity"
Jackie is just another EXPERT on sexuality, sex and gender. Scientists studying the brain, including concerning sex preferences, need to get with the religious people like Jackie, who I'm sure has a Nobel prize for explaining the human sexuality of being. I want that knowledge. The world needs it.
Mike sounds a lot like Canadian Catholic who used to call in a lot.
Tell me you’re religious without telling me you’re religious: “I’m voting for the Republican candidate.”
Or even better: "I'm the host of a show on the ACA!"
@@HOLDYFFOLDSare you one of those deluded folks who think atheism is a religion? Can you please explain? Considering atheism is just the lack of belief in a god or gods and LITERALLY nothing else, I’m looking forward to your answer.
Jack is in for an unpleasant surprise when he realises that *_his_* god is in fact an evil god and lied to Jack about being good.
That will never happen, gods aren't real. At best jack realises christians and himself lied to himself
Both Jack and Mike try to use the freewill argument.
But if everything is according to some god's will, then you don't get to be selective on what everything means.
Geezus, Mike was a very tough listen. Ben and Forrest have crazy patience.
Another great program Ben and Forrest!
Who ever programmed Jackie should work for the special forces, they are so good at mind control.
Jackie’s calls are a good way to go to sleep if you have trouble sleeping lol
You guys rock.....jack was not prepared for this or you. You made him so embarrassed he had to drop the call. He needs a good long think.
My favorite response to “he had to allow evil to have his creations attain free will” is “does free will exist in heaven? Does evil exist in heaven? So then he can and did create a universe wherein freewill can exist in an absence of evil..he just decided to to throw us into this shitty beta version to fuck with us” lol
The moment you put any logic into the mix, every Christian apologetic falls instantly apart.
People want to propagate the quote/idea of “all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing,” EXCEPT when it comes to a tri-omni god… 🙄
nates call was most enlightening.
would like to hear more rules!
Vic, you’re on track buddy!
1:43:27 Forrest "It doesn't matter" 😂
If I don't want to call the show, I can publish a philosophy book and Jackie will quote me.
2:13:49 I was raised in a pretty strict Quaker/Protestant home and my mother was big on not working on the Sabbath, but I was taught it was about engaging in commerce and economics over not doing anything of even limited effort like ripping toilet paper. That's so extreme, and if logically drawn out, do you also have to only drink water because chewing food is effort? Turning a doorknob? Putting on clothes? Brush your teeth? If something as small as tearing a sheet of toilet paper is too much work, there's not much you could do other than lay in bed staring at the ceiling without crossing a line 😂
Hey, Forrest and Ben, two of my favorite hosts.
We need more callers like Jack and Vic; they actually listen to the hosts, and didn't dig in their heels when they were proven wrong. We need less callers like Mike and Jackie, who, when corrected, seems like they were just following a script, and dug in their heels when they were called out.
Forrest is gonna make 16 year old Jackie cry one day, and I can't wait.
1:04:00 Thanos, in the comics, was trying to woo the Goddess of Death: making him a Radical Theist, the polar opposite of an Atheist...
1:37:52 this is my favorite part of the whole episode where he realizes he was wrong even though he goes on to argue that he wasn't
Loved Dr Ben's cat during Jack's call. It made my day.😅
"Monster in the sky.". I am gonna hang on to that one!
Hopefully Jackie apologises to Ben
There were words of "I" and "am" and "sorry". However, they were followed up by more gaslighting.
One can't get a true apology from a turd like Jackie.
My husband's coworker was arrested for domestic violence. But he said he only hit his wife below the waist on the legs as was his right. He was the head of the house, and it was his job to teach her. While he was in jail, he asked for his pastor who would not visit or counsel him. It was my husband who was there to help him.
No one has a right to hit someone else
@@Quartz512_ Of course not, he was in jail. The point is when he needed help his pastor was nowhere.
21:00 What a bad example. It is up to the aquarium keepers to make sure all the exhibits are healthy. The keepers of the aquarium isn't going to put sea lions in the general fish population. The keepers of the aquarium isn't going to put sharks next to prey animal. So yes, it is totally the aquarium manager's fault if the fishes end up killing each other because that is zoo keeping 101. Don't put predators in the same enclosures as prey animals. God puts murderers next to victims all the time. I wouldn't trust god to manage an aquarium or zoo.
I wonder if Mike thinks "teaching" kids heterosexuality is bad too? Newsflash homophobes....we teach kids sexuality from the moment they're born.
😅 It would probably blow his mind to learn that some scientists have caught evidence of well-developed fetuses touching themselves in the womb.
Humans evolved with the potential (not the certainty) of procreation. And what that means is that sexuality is inborn, not taught.
What _needs_ to be taught are the understandings and knowledge that will allow the child to navigate their inborn sexuality safely and happily.
And so, all these religious conservatives do by denying children honest, open, and age-appropriate sex education, is endangering them with enforced ignorance. 🤷🏾♀️
(Kind of explains why child abuse in religious groups are higher, the abuser takes advantage of the child's lack of knowledge and their indoctrinated shame, fear, and silence around the topic of sex, in order to decieve and manipulate the child into staying quiet).
2:03:00 Jackie, why take a leap of faith? Why not only accept claims for which you have adequate evidence?
There needs to be some kind of special event when the donations get to $42,069
Don’t tell me you’re religious: “Have you been saved by the blood of the lamb?”
Mike should run for president, by which I mean Mike shouldn’t run for president even though he’d be good at it.
Cool hearing that HeroForge donated when I'm literally on their page in another tab listening to this
I didn't think it could be possible that jackie could get worse. The bar appears to be infinitely low.
Telling people you're religious without saying you're religious: You play ten Bingo cards at the same time.
I'm really happy with how you both took the absolute wind out of Jackie's sails and exposed him for the parroting child that he is. He doesn't understand this stuff, he just sees that JP gets away with it using flowery language and prose to obfuscate the bad ideas, so he does the same thing because he has aspirations to be just like JP. He knows some philosophers names and understands just enough to barely comprehend the stuff he's reading.... But as soon as you bring him down to a lay person level where he needs to make the ideas digestible...it falls apart as the incoherent mess that it is and really shows what the actual basis of his beliefs are. Nothing but faith and bigotry, just like the cowards he props up on pedestals.
I just became a member 🎉🎉
I live in Oklahoma.kingfisher, co. It’s a struggle.
Tell me you're religious without telling me you're religious: "Please pass the tartar sauce. My capybara is a bit dry."
Vic is a good example what religion does to you!
Great job with Jackass, Forest! Not that anything sank in that meta-substrate..
37:38 bro studied the rapper logic in college 😂😂
Great phone!
Tell me you're religious without telling me you're religious: "It's in the Bible!" (When it clearly isn't.)
1:20:00 I like to liken it to language. I hope this makes sense to someone other than me 😅
Babies speak the same language as their caregivers for a reason. We may want to express ourselves beyond the bounds of our Mother Tongue, and we do so with new words and slang (RE: "Femboy", "Enby", "Skibidi") but we're constrained in society by our need to communicate.
for instance, I could come up with a totally new word to express myself with, but I can't will people to understand it without explaining my word in detail. but, eventually, other people may use and understand that word, and maybe i can use my personal word to describe myself and people will understand it. (again, see "Femboy" or "Enby").
we have to do both in order to function: be ourselves and operate in society. this is like speaking a language (operating in society) and also want to be oneself and not conforming (needing new words).
eventually, this opposition will erode to being just an outlier and your lay person will be able to respect peoples pronouns, names, and life experiences as easy as they do just birth names, or a married name today.
just like we use those words that used to be slang as "proper English" in modern times.
🏳🌈🏳⚧|🟨⬜🟪⬛
How to tell you im religiouswithout saying im religious:
'd like to go eat with yall today, but Joel Osteen needs my 10% so he can make his next payment on his Lambo...
Forrest needs a white board behind him with the Epicurean Flowchart for all these shows!
Mike, with the "Thanos" Problem, it isn't entirely about resources.
With that 50% probably 70-90% of all life dies, period.
26:16 "gym Jordan"! 🤣
Personally, I think people are way too worried about others when they should be working on themselves. Spiritually, mentally and physically. Contemplate from withing, study and work out. That should leave little time trying to get in other people's lives.
Mike is one of those dishonest callers who hem, haw, and try to avoid answering every question he is uncomfortable with. He knows his answer is going to make him look anywhere from silly, to a total jerk, so he has to avoid it.
I had to laugh when he said 'Common, hit me with them' when asking for questions, when he CLEARLY had worked hard to avoid answering other questions.
He can't even answer the basic questions without squirming.