The only question for slavery apologists: if slavery in the bible isnt that bad, why did Moses need to lead the Isrealites out of Egypt away from all those jobs they were totally cool with?
@@UngoogleableMan Well the Israelites were from Canaan. God, in Exodus, clearly states that His people can buy slaves “from the nations around you”. The original Hebrew reads as “your close neighbors”. Canaan is not sufficiently proximate to Egypt to qualify as a “close neighbor” and besides, we have no evidence to indicate that the Israelite slaves became Egyptian property as the result of any business transaction!
As slavery apologists have regularly "pointed out" (aka, "claimed"), it's ONLY the Egyptian slavery of the Israelites that was bad. When Israelites did their own slavery, it was totally benevolent and just like a 7 year long contract of employment! ¹ ¹ And secretly they are like _"Please don't mention the women, the non Israelites, the Deuteronomic Codes (rules of war), the "rod" of beating, the father selling his daughter, the Midianites virgins, the inheritance, the "for they are you property" verse..."_ 😬
If you injure your slave, you have to let them go. With no means of support, an injury that prevents them from working to starve. Letting them go is like dumping your old busted washer into the garden.
Supposedly the concept of morality. Which is a wild claim to make considering Christianity was neither the first nor the last religion with a concept of morality.
@@godsarepeopletoo1896 Right. Your concept is different. But the argument is, that you have a concept at all is thanks to big G. As I said, complete nonsense.
Based on the fact that his mind is so far gone, do you think certain restrictions should be put on people like him? The right to vote, pass laws, raise children, etc.
I have never understood any argument a theist makes to defend why God couldn’t outright condemn slavery. The most shallow and frankly pathetic defense, which also seems to be one of the most popular, is a claim that includes "people weren’t ready" for such a command. This argument has always struck me as a glaring red flag, pointing to one of several possibilities: either God is a concept created by people, God isn’t truly all-powerful, God is actually evil and only claims Themselves to be good, God is a coward, or God was simply so desperate for approval that He made concessions to win favor. There are likely other reasonable potential interpretations, but none of them seem to justify or align with the broader claims made in the Bible. Why would an omnipotent being, one who at that point in history was already showcasing immense power, care whether or not people were willing to accept His commands? If slavery was indeed a sin, why would it matter whether God explicitly condoned or forbade it? Wouldn't He send those who practiced it to Heaven or Hell based on His judgment regardless of their societal norms? And what do believers imagine happens when slave-owners make it to Heaven? Does the part of them that condoned slavery just disappear? Or do they have to go through some sort of moral reeducation before they're allowed to fully participate in eternal paradise? It makes absolutely no sense on a foundational level, especially when you consider other aspects of God's supposed character, power, and the supposed purposes of the biblical texts. And while this isn’t the only internal inconsistency within religious doctrine, it’s certainly one of the top five most blatant. The fact that this argument persists despite its obvious flaws is beyond frustrating. I wish we, as a society, were less prone to cognitive dissonance and better equipped for critical thinking-without falling into the traps of various fallacies. If we could reach a point where we think more logically and consistently, we might finally move on from these contradictions and focus on more meaningful discussions. We could start addressing the real questions, like what subjective goals we should strive for as a society, and once we agree on those, figure out what processes are most successful in a demonstrable way. If any theist, like Andrew, wants to argue that my critique is flawed or misrepresents their position, feel free to challenge me. _Note: I’m planning to send this to any theist who stands up for Andrew. Do you think there’s anything I should add?_
@@justinschafer5269 There are different levels of slavery. Also, well being doesn't go without crime and punishment. These are things most people don't take into account when arguing about good and evil.
@durrutti Adam and Eve rejected God's absolute morality when they rejected His ONE commandment which was designed to give them life abundant in union with God. Since then, mankind has formed his own sense of morality based on what tickles his fancy rather than what is right or wrong. That's why morality changes with different civilizations or within different generations of the same society. Part of God's punishment for that rejection of Him is to allow us - until the designated time of the End - the freedom to follow our own ways, come what may - so, slavery leads to oppression, to human trafficking, to child abuse, to anger and resentment, to any number of other horrible results - all because we would reject God's instruction (there was NO slavery in the Garden and Adam and Eve were created to be equal partners) - He determined the best teaching we would ever have is for us to get exactly what we asked for and continue to demand - doing our own 'thing' our own way - consequences and all. Those who put their trust in the forgiveness and redemption of Christ, however, know that in Him there is no slave or free, no male or female - because we are all ONE in HIM. That's the ONLY end to 'slavery' we will ever see on this side of eternity - because WE have demanded to have it our way. Oppression of another person is not loving - therefore it is sin in God's eyes. Jesus died for all our sins - only those who receive that redemption receive His everlasting promise. (John 3 16)
@@wwlib5390 How was mud man and rib girl supposed to follow ANY commandment when Yahweh deliberately made them without any sense of right or wrong, put a tree right next to them and said eating from it was wrong as if that would mean anything to them, then made a talking snake to tell them to do exactly that? And all this is assuming ANY of that actually happened, while all observable evidence says the contrary.
This dude Dre is THE biggest simpleton I’ve ever listened to. Sounds like a nice dude but holy sh!t how GULLIBLE can ONE person be?? This dude has THE lowest standards of evidence and is very easily impressed w stuff and.. he’s very unbiased he says. YEAH RIGHT!! This guys whole belief system hinges on the religion he conveniently prefers and was indoctrinated into LOL. It’s soooo annoying that there exists SOOO many people who THINK they’re very intelligent, objective and out of the box thinkers but they’re anything BUT. Like I said, again, dude sounds like a genuinely nice guy and I mean no disrespect- I’d probably even be able to kick it w him but gosh…. Dudes standards, level of intellect in determining truth or likely truth or plausibility are HORRIBLY flawed and the worst part is that he thinks he’s actually a clever thinker.. He may think about and get into it and do a lot of research but he’s HORRIBLE at remaining unbiased and objective. He’s horrible at actually assessing what we know and extracting likelihood from that.. I’d pretty much bet my life on it that Christianity is NOT true. It’s core claims, not true. I’d be willing to bet my life on that (haha I know a lot of simpletons will say I’m already betting my life on it but these are the same folks who think Adam and Eve were literally real people 😂). Anyway, I’d bet Christianity is false and this caller thinks it’s actually true but the reasons he’s giving for why he thinks he knows are sooooooo dumb!!!! And they literally remind me of flat earther arguments 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Forrest,John, my admiration and respect for you both is boundless. Thank you all for being men of conscience. Your dedication to humanity is humbling.❤
Hey Chris, if all the Christians are gone in heaven, they won’t be around preaching and condescending and asking loaded false dichotomy questions. So I probably won’t be particularly angry. And I love beauty and being kind and sharing the company of people like me. So I guess “hell” will be preferable to 24 hour church. Don’t worry, Chris!
Imagine spending eternity separated from everyone you ever loved who didn’t happen to believe in the same fairy tale as you did just because God thought that hide and seek with eternal damnation as the stakes would be a fun game to play with the kids. “Paradise”
When I don't think the Bible can shock me anymore than it previously has, then I hear or read something that's even more immoral. What a disgusting book!
@@ocvjw8734 It took me a couple of weeks to get through the whole thing and, of course, I was working full-time so I was only reading in the evenings and some on the weekends. I will say that it took me reading it twice all the way through to let it sink in just how awful and antiquated those writings were and that, for the most part, totally fictional fables and legends. Then I began search literature for the origins of when the ancient Israelites decided to start worshiping that god. Hint: They took it from the pantheon of gods the Canaanites worshiped. LOL
@@rhondah1587 Kudos to you for making it all the way through. I couldn't. In high school I was a voracious reader. Sci-Fi, Russian classics, Enlightenment philosophy, basically any genre; I just loved reading. Eventually I had the epiphany, "I'm a Christian. Shouldn't I read the bible?". So, I started bringing the bible to school and reading during breaks (got some mixed reactions from doing so). After hitting a couple true 'WTF!??' passages in the book fairly early on, I asked some supposed religious authorities to help me understand them. While I felt that their answers were unsatisfying and speculative, I believed that if I just continued reading I would be able to find the relevant context that would make it all make sense (After all, every other book that I'd read made sense eventually if I kept reading and paid attention). After making it over halfway through, though, it became glaringly obvious that no such context existed and I abandoned the whole endeavor. The bible is probably the only book I could never finish, and that I was sorry to have even started. I believe I actually threw it in the trash out of frustration and disgust. It was incredible to me that I had never been warned about just how extremely BORING some parts were and how VILE some others were. It took me a while to realize that nobody around me had actually read the damn thing. I'm glad there weren't any fundamentalists in my family, as I was allowed the freedom to share my opinions without much more than a disapproving glance, an invitation to wager à la Pascal, or a dismissal of my disbelief as 'a phase'. I dread to think what it would have been like if there had been an 'Andrew' in my family. Yikes.
Andrew: Thank you for once again showing that atheists almost always know more about the bible than the "faithful". “The best Cure for Christianity is reading the bible.” - Mark Twain "It ain’t supposed to make sense; it’s faith. Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe.” - Archie Bunker
@@TheSnoeedog lol. I discovered a post of yours somewhere randomly from over a year ago. I thought about giving you a shout out in response but I didn’t want you to think I was stalking you.😂
@@xmillion1704 So long as your breath isn't fogging up my bedroom window, I think we're ok. 🤣🤣 Also, I'm a huge fan of people responding to my posts, regardless of age. The exception is anything with a >50 comment string, unless I'm the OP. Odds are, in that case, that I don't remember what I wrote to which one is responding, *AND* I don't want to wade through miles of posts looking for context. But I love when people respond to my posts (makes me feel better about venting into the aether, as it were!) Live well
No Love displayed by God in the Bible anywhere, not a single time, think about this... not a single time in any of the stories does God show love OR compassion for humans and humanity. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
Forrest read directly from the bible that god specifically, actively hardened Pharaoh's heart. Andrew responded that Pharaoh had ALREADY hardened his own heart. At that point Forrest's question should have been "Where does the bible say that? Where are you getting all these nuances?" Andrew's answers sound like things one could just create out of whole cloth (that sounds nicer than Andrew is "pulling it out his arse.")
It's even worse than that. Even if we were to concede that the Pharaoh already decided to harden his heart, it's still a violation of free will for God to come down and further harden his hard. It's not a direct refutation to say God hardened his heart even more than Pharaoh wanted, even if he made the decision initially. If I want to feel angry, that doesn't mean I want to feel even more angry than I want to now, and for someone to come make me even more angry is still a violation of my "free will." This is, of course, all under the assumption that we have any free will at all. Andrew was just that trash at his own garbage apologetics.
God tells Moses to go talk to the Pharaoh and tells him that it will be useless because he will harden the Pharaoh's heart. It says in Exodus 4:21 _The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. _*_But I will harden his heart_*_ so that he will not let the people go."_ If the Pharoah had already hardened his own heart, why would god need to plan on hardening the Pharaoh's heart???
@@gordonlynn8300 See, there was this raging huge rave. They blended right in. Folks didn’t bathe regularly anyway and someone had discovered this plant that, if you burnt it and inhaled the smoke . . . let’s just say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has NOTNIN’ on this bad b-o-i !!!!!
@@gordonlynn8300 There was this raging huge rave. They blended right in. Folks didn’t bathe regularly anyway and someone had discovered this plant that, if you burnt it and inhaled the smoke . . . let’s just say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has NOTNIN’ on this bad b-o-i !!!!!
Calling into a a live show with a bunch of incredibly intelligent and well read atheists and trying to defend slavery... I could live to be a thousand years old and I will never understand why someone would purposely do that to themselves. It's got to be some sort of weird new form of penance. Forget your self-flagellation stick at home? No worries, just try to defend biblical slavery.for 27 minutes.
Oh dear Dre. 'The bible is historically accurate' Oh dear! Have we a known date for the supposed crucifixion? And all those dead people walking the streets, that's really well reported!
People like Dre operate based upon the really broad claim, and maybe a handful of examples to support the claim, when they're nowhere close supporting the really broad claim. EDIT: After posting the above, I just got to his worldwide darkness claim, with one alleged corroborating example from the Chinese. "Worldwide" with two alleged examples. 😂
Look there is a God everything on earth has a brilliant purpose it we need need water for lakes , rivers , drinking , bathing ect. Our bodies are definitely designed brilliantly we have hands we use them for writing , driving , texting ect. No evolving could of knew we needed them for but God did he knows how God is the brilliant mind behind it.
@@tylerdyson8410 there is very little drinking water on earth. Did you know that people needed to drink alcohol during the Middle Ages because clean water was so scarce? Yet people are damned to hell for being an alcoholic. What kind of perfect design is that. Our bodies are the result of evolution natural selection.
@godlessengineer; "I don't understand why people go to the question of why you wouldn't worship him". I feel it's just a simple trick to skip the burden of proof on their god's existence, and instead focus on the story, where all they need is make excuses for our objections to it's character.
Mr Michael not understanding what an abortion is is a perfect example of how scary it is when people want to involve themselves in people's healthcare without understanding what they're talking about. He didn't even understand what the original argument was about. I think I remember his voice from other shows, and being trollish.
Dre missed the fact that Apologists went looking for eclipse events near that time, THEN declared that was the day Jesus was crucified. They drew the target around the arrow and called it a hit. But what happened to all the risen dead at the crucifixion? No one mentions that. There is no logic in claiming magic, the magical claims in the bible are not historical, and even when they had the old testament to copy from, they were not consistent. The bible is a mess.
And why did god need lamb's blood to mark the doors of the Israelites to make sure he passed over? Wouldn't God know where the Israelites were already?
I just find it funny that Christians state Jesus was innocent of the crime he was crucified for and then confirm his guilt when they explain who he was and what he was doing.
I'm seeing another Roland the Closet Goblin plush thing sitting in Forests shelf, don't think it was there before. Any chance either ones like that or the one in the AXP studio might ever become merch? Cause I would totally buy either. Or both :3 All hail to Roland! Or rather all sandwiches to Roland!
@@SalisburyKarateClub I get that, but such a silly hill to choose to die on. The fact that sooooo many xians, in this day and age, will happily accept, and support, slavery is frightening.
Sincere answer: the moment you start questioning the morality of the Bible, you are endowing yourself with the authority to question the Bible. And it simply doesn’t hold up to even moderate scrutiny.
Yepp, ultimatly that's what they all say. Of course you just need to wade throught assumptions, sophistry, excuses and in many cases unrelated babble quoting to get there thought. My theory, theists dont really like saying that quiet part aloud becaus sane people will look at them with horror and carefully back away.
Hey, this isn't a dig or anything, I promise You're hear early and often, have you ever considered making timestamps? If you've ever seen any of mine, I tend to go off the rails railing about the callers. But most people prefer timestamps and it's pretty easy to prepare them in a document while watching in real time. You are always among the earliest posters, suggesting that you're watching in ( or near enough to) real time. If your first post was the corresponding time stamps, I can assure you that I (and I suspect others) would fuckin' love you for it. ...Food for thought? (you know who this is directed at, lol) Live well
I love how both eating shellfish and murder are important enough for God to bring his full authority to put an immediate stop to, but for some reason he has to coddle us and bide his time when it comes to stopping slavery.
Clickbait: Hero leads slaves toward freedom with captors in close pursuit. A massive sea blocks their escape. All hope seems lost, but suddenly, the hero raises his staff. What happens next is absolutely mind blowing.
The bible doesn't have eyewitness statements. They have stories from an unknown person who said something about what another unknown person said. I court even if there's only an eyewitness statement, we at least confirm that person is real and question them
Dear Christians, and Andrew specifically. Perhaps it's just best not to defend ANY slavery? I mean, really. FFS, what the hell is wrong with ~your~ morals?
There could not be an eclipse at the time of the crucifixion. Passover is at the full moon while eclipses occur at the new moon and solar eclipses also are limited to a swath of territory and are not visible worldwide. Some Christians, like many Catholics, propose that it was a sandstorm many of which do occur in this area around the time of the Passover. However, it seems more likely to me that people who lived in that area would know to say it was a sandstorm and not a mysterious darkness.
New Testament examples of submission include: the young Jesus submitting to Joseph and Mary (Luke 2:51), God the Son submitting to God the Father (1 Cor. 15:27-28), the church submitting to Christ (Eph. 1:22), believers submitting to God (Heb. 12:9;
Andrew must be one of the most dishonest callers I've heard on this show. The lengths he goes to in order to justify his belief are almost incomprehensible.
Forrest said to "Mr Michael do you have anything else coherent to say". I'd argue, as to whether he had anything coherent to say at all. Well done Forrest and John, for putting up with the guests you had today it must have been hard, it was for us on the outside looking in.
I've run into an argument online related to the beginning of the video. It goes something like this "If god's existence were proven to you would you worship him?" you answer no "oh, well that's why he doesn't reveal himself to you in a way that would convince you because believing doesn't mean anything without worship and he knows even if he gave you the evidence to believe you wouldn't worship"
If every putrid thing that a "god" does is "good", isn't this caller worried that his "god" does NOT have his ( or humans ) best interests at heart ? Because his "god" can be totally anti-human at heart, but that is still all good to that "God". How can this caller ( or God believers ) have a coherent logical moral system, if it's based on some big guys moods & self importance ? When the books are all over the place with morality. It's amazing how much this "gods" ideas & moods etc are exactly like a person's would be 🤔. It's almost like a "god" is a reflection of the wants of the people that said we have to obey it.🤦♀️
A god that could stop the Earth rotating without destroying everything on the surface only a few thousand years ago, Now it can't even appear on a TV show, And the biblical God doesn't deserve worship.
If Andrew thinks Biblical slavery is good and justifiable, then why did the Israelites want to leave Egypt at all? Why not just stay there in their nice, cozy slavery?
Whenever an apologist says biblical slavery is good I ask them if they will be my slave under the Bible's rules for slavery. So far, none of them have taken the opportunity.
Andrew, Yahweh can tell you to not eat shrimp, I'm sure, if he were real, and moral, he could have said "thou shalt not own a human being as property."
@@rcblazer God is the existence of Love we all acknowledge. Everybody Believes Love exists. Including You. And yes, Ego will be dismissive. But Since it’s our life Motivation, You Literally couldn’t do anything without it Pretty Cool
Dre is super confused. It’s not baked into a worldview that there is no evidence of supernatural things. It is a fact that there is no, or at least, no good evidence to justify believing
@@MrCanis4 But it isn't evidence for the supernatural if there can be naturalistic explanations, even if we haven't discovered that explanation. There has to be a way to preclude the natural before you call it supernatural.
@eldritchwulfe I think morality changes as societies change, doesn't it? Do we adhere to absolute morality today? Are our socially-accepted morals today the same as they were 100 years ago? Was abortion considered a moral right 100 years ago? or Homosexuality? With that said, why does God - who cannot be immoral - allow slavery to continue, especially after the Exodus when He had an 'opportunity' to pass laws forbidding it? Think deeper.
@@wwlib5390 God allowed slavery to continue long after Exodus because god is a fiction made by men to justify their own beliefs and morals. That's why Christianity was used to justify American slavery. And later, Christianity was also used as an argument against slavery. God can be made to say anything. Even things like the current scientific view that space is expanding infinitely. You can find some verse about god stretching the heavens (by which it means the sky and not space), and pretend that it means that the Bible is saying that space is expanding at an accelerated rate.
for caller Dre, I'm concerned that he may think Philosophy to be Monolithic: like a secular religion in and of itself 😓 it's a mischaracterization that I've seen a LOT of theists make.
I would have really appreciated if he stopped being so condescending, yeah. I don't need you to explain how simple conversation is better, I need to you be clear, concise, and actually engage with the conversation, and not accuse me of not being logical when I just gave you a well-reasoned argument for why I don't believe what you believe.
@@NoahofWill to his credit, he was listening better than many others, at least at first, but "listening to reply" rather than "active listening" is a weakness he eventually fell to, just like all the other callers did.
These people calling to defend biblical slavery only ever view themselves as the "masters" in these situations. I think that needs to be challenged directly. "The bible says slavery is good so YOU are okay with being someone else's slave/property? And, also your children and your grandchildren?"
Seems like Dre's sources didnt say "we know this mountain is Mount Sinai. And hey look, it's burnt at the top. Confirms bible account. Instead: well we are not even in the right country for what should be Mount Sinai. But that mountain's black on top. So it must be Mount Sinai. Bible account confirmed.
Andrew: “There is a strong incentive not to beat your slaves.” Any Rationally Thinking Individual: “The incentive is for the owner of the slave or slaves to not beat said slave or slaves so they do not lose said slave or slaves…” Seriously, the “incentive to not beat your slaves” was to not lose said slaves if by beating them you are commanded to let the free… that doesn’t negate slavery. Rather, this logic defends slavery. To not condemn a heinous act by explaining how people misrepresent the heinous act in a way which maintains said heinous act’s nature as still being heinous is to defend the heinous act in question.
@joshsheridan9511 While I agree with what you're trying to convey, I would make a slight change and say that chattel slavery is "wrong" regardless of the era, not necessarily the "same." _Edit: For that matter regardless of the type of slavery, slavery is evil._
I think it’s very simple. For any reasonable and truly benevolent god to prove that he or she exists. The deity would have to appear to every human being on earth simultaneously and clearly state that it is the deity and to make sure there is no ambiguity state that it is Hindu or Egyptian or Jewish or whatever and that that is the correct system of laws and requirements. This would convince people of divergent religions to recognize what is correct. The fact that it happens simultaneously would be very convincing and unifying and would be a welcome relief to billions. Something a loving god would desire above all else.
There are already a couple of “clickbait” entries about Samson and I don’t want to step on their toes so this is NOT AN OFFICIAL CLICKBAIT ENTRY. Watch Delilah’s Tips for Getting Rid of Split Ends
1:38:15 god of the gaps fallacy EDIT: 3min later he's inverted it and is almost saying that atheists are guilty of the "God of the Gaps Fallacy" except it's the... "science of the gaps fallacy"!? I'm gobsmacked... 😦
If you can’t know god is evil because his ways are not your ways then how can you know he’s good? Because you’re using your human understanding of what it is to be good How could you know if Allah is good or evil either? Because your ways could not determine if that god is good or evil either? It’s ridiculous. You know what is good and evil. Religion just brainwashes us to think that things that are clearly evil (all the wrong prescribed in the Bible) are actually good when god does them. It’s absurd
The only question for slavery apologists: if slavery in the bible isnt that bad, why did Moses need to lead the Isrealites out of Egypt away from all those jobs they were totally cool with?
Probably something along the lines of "It's bad if anyone enslaves God's people, except fellow God's people!"
@@UngoogleableMan Well the Israelites were from Canaan. God, in Exodus, clearly states that His people can buy slaves “from the nations around you”. The original Hebrew reads as “your close neighbors”.
Canaan is not sufficiently proximate to Egypt to qualify as a “close neighbor” and besides, we have no evidence to indicate that the Israelite slaves became Egyptian property as the result of any business transaction!
As slavery apologists have regularly "pointed out" (aka, "claimed"), it's ONLY the Egyptian slavery of the Israelites that was bad. When Israelites did their own slavery, it was totally benevolent and just like a 7 year long contract of employment! ¹
¹ And secretly they are like _"Please don't mention the women, the non Israelites, the Deuteronomic Codes (rules of war), the "rod" of beating, the father selling his daughter, the Midianites virgins, the inheritance, the "for they are you property" verse..."_ 😬
Moses left with their slaves. How is it that slaves owned slaves. American slavery is directly justified by their supposedly holy bible.
Because their boss was a union-buster
The statement "You just don't understand him" is an excuse you hear from many victims of abusive relationships.
If you injure your slave, you have to let them go. With no means of support, an injury that prevents them from working to starve. Letting them go is like dumping your old busted washer into the garden.
'You're borrowing from my worldview though'
Your worldview says slavery is okay
My worldview says it's not
What's being borrowed?
Supposedly the concept of morality. Which is a wild claim to make considering Christianity was neither the first nor the last religion with a concept of morality.
@@carstekoch- Judaism wasn't the first, either. Not even first among religions that are still practiced today.
@@loki2240
Right
@carstekoch
Except their concept of morality says slavery is okay
Mine doesn't
@@godsarepeopletoo1896
Right. Your concept is different. But the argument is, that you have a concept at all is thanks to big G. As I said, complete nonsense.
Andrew's mind is so far gone that he has no chance of figuring out that he is buying snake oil and thanking the salesman.
Based on the fact that his mind is so far gone, do you think certain restrictions should be put on people like him? The right to vote, pass laws, raise children, etc.
Andrew! Andrew! Andrew!
I have never understood any argument a theist makes to defend why God couldn’t outright condemn slavery. The most shallow and frankly pathetic defense, which also seems to be one of the most popular, is a claim that includes "people weren’t ready" for such a command. This argument has always struck me as a glaring red flag, pointing to one of several possibilities: either God is a concept created by people, God isn’t truly all-powerful, God is actually evil and only claims Themselves to be good, God is a coward, or God was simply so desperate for approval that He made concessions to win favor. There are likely other reasonable potential interpretations, but none of them seem to justify or align with the broader claims made in the Bible.
Why would an omnipotent being, one who at that point in history was already showcasing immense power, care whether or not people were willing to accept His commands? If slavery was indeed a sin, why would it matter whether God explicitly condoned or forbade it? Wouldn't He send those who practiced it to Heaven or Hell based on His judgment regardless of their societal norms? And what do believers imagine happens when slave-owners make it to Heaven? Does the part of them that condoned slavery just disappear? Or do they have to go through some sort of moral reeducation before they're allowed to fully participate in eternal paradise?
It makes absolutely no sense on a foundational level, especially when you consider other aspects of God's supposed character, power, and the supposed purposes of the biblical texts. And while this isn’t the only internal inconsistency within religious doctrine, it’s certainly one of the top five most blatant. The fact that this argument persists despite its obvious flaws is beyond frustrating.
I wish we, as a society, were less prone to cognitive dissonance and better equipped for critical thinking-without falling into the traps of various fallacies. If we could reach a point where we think more logically and consistently, we might finally move on from these contradictions and focus on more meaningful discussions. We could start addressing the real questions, like what subjective goals we should strive for as a society, and once we agree on those, figure out what processes are most successful in a demonstrable way.
If any theist, like Andrew, wants to argue that my critique is flawed or misrepresents their position, feel free to challenge me.
_Note: I’m planning to send this to any theist who stands up for Andrew. Do you think there’s anything I should add?_
@@justinschafer5269 There are different levels of slavery. Also, well being doesn't go without crime and punishment. These are things most people don't take into account when arguing about good and evil.
He wasn't even consistent within his own attempts to redefine slavery.
Doesnt matter if they treat the slaves well and let them run away - it is still owning other ppl as property! THAT IS WHAT IS IMMORAL ABOUT IT!
@durrutti Adam and Eve rejected God's absolute morality when they rejected His ONE commandment which was designed to give them life abundant in union with God. Since then, mankind has formed his own sense of morality based on what tickles his fancy rather than what is right or wrong.
That's why morality changes with different civilizations or within different generations of the same society. Part of God's punishment for that rejection of Him is to allow us - until the designated time of the End - the freedom to follow our own ways, come what may - so, slavery leads to oppression, to human trafficking, to child abuse, to anger and resentment, to any number of other horrible results - all because we would reject God's instruction (there was NO slavery in the Garden and Adam and Eve were created to be equal partners) -
He determined the best teaching we would ever have is for us to get exactly what we asked for and continue to demand - doing our own 'thing' our own way - consequences and all.
Those who put their trust in the forgiveness and redemption of Christ, however, know that in Him there is no slave or free, no male or female - because we are all ONE in HIM. That's the ONLY end to 'slavery' we will ever see on this side of eternity - because WE have demanded to have it our way. Oppression of another person is not loving - therefore it is sin in God's eyes. Jesus died for all our sins - only those who receive that redemption receive His everlasting promise. (John 3 16)
@@wwlib5390 How was mud man and rib girl supposed to follow ANY commandment when Yahweh deliberately made them without any sense of right or wrong, put a tree right next to them and said eating from it was wrong as if that would mean anything to them, then made a talking snake to tell them to do exactly that?
And all this is assuming ANY of that actually happened, while all observable evidence says the contrary.
@@wwlib5390absolute morality? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@wwlib5390excuses, excuses
@@wwlib5390 yeah, that had nothing to do with what I wrote. But thanks for the preaching.
Andrew "I'm not defending slavery, unless it's god odained slavery" 😂😂😂😂
ordained*
"Justice denied anywhere diminishes justice everywhere" - Martin Luther King Jr.
Whew, for having such a consistent almost insane amount of positivity and happiness, Forrest can sure lay in to someone.
Appreciate the content 👍
Haven't watched yet, but this comment has me EXCITED
@@ItsJustAisling I believe it was Andrew, the "I wanna defend biblical slavery" guy
Enjoy, lol, 👍
Clickbait: "Maybe he's born with it, maybe it's Maybelline. Samson's hair care secrets revealed"
Having grown up in the U.K. in the 80s it always makes me laugh when people act like Christian terrorists aren’t a thing
Exactly!
but are catholics christian? ahaha. in the US, there are protestants who thing they aren’t’.
Bravo!
This dude Dre is THE biggest simpleton I’ve ever listened to. Sounds like a nice dude but holy sh!t how GULLIBLE can ONE person be?? This dude has THE lowest standards of evidence and is very easily impressed w stuff and.. he’s very unbiased he says. YEAH RIGHT!! This guys whole belief system hinges on the religion he conveniently prefers and was indoctrinated into LOL. It’s soooo annoying that there exists SOOO many people who THINK they’re very intelligent, objective and out of the box thinkers but they’re anything BUT. Like I said, again, dude sounds like a genuinely nice guy and I mean no disrespect- I’d probably even be able to kick it w him but gosh…. Dudes standards, level of intellect in determining truth or likely truth or plausibility are HORRIBLY flawed and the worst part is that he thinks he’s actually a clever thinker.. He may think about and get into it and do a lot of research but he’s HORRIBLE at remaining unbiased and objective. He’s horrible at actually assessing what we know and extracting likelihood from that.. I’d pretty much bet my life on it that Christianity is NOT true. It’s core claims, not true. I’d be willing to bet my life on that (haha I know a lot of simpletons will say I’m already betting my life on it but these are the same folks who think Adam and Eve were literally real people 😂). Anyway, I’d bet Christianity is false and this caller thinks it’s actually true but the reasons he’s giving for why he thinks he knows are sooooooo dumb!!!! And they literally remind me of flat earther arguments 🤦♂️🤦♂️
There are still people who justify the crusades, it's only hilarious because I need to laugh so I don't cry 😂😢
Forrest,John, my admiration and respect for you both is boundless. Thank you all for being men of conscience. Your dedication to humanity is humbling.❤
Q never had any trouble convincing the crew of Enterprise of his existence and powers.
Hey Chris, if all the Christians are gone in heaven, they won’t be around preaching and condescending and asking loaded false dichotomy questions. So I probably won’t be particularly angry. And I love beauty and being kind and sharing the company of people like me. So I guess “hell” will be preferable to 24 hour church. Don’t worry, Chris!
Imagine spending eternity separated from everyone you ever loved who didn’t happen to believe in the same fairy tale as you did just because God thought that hide and seek with eternal damnation as the stakes would be a fun game to play with the kids.
“Paradise”
We are doomed as these Andrew types vote.
And vote based on what their preacher says
Which usually is for whomever makes the preacher richer
@@mobrocket You’re right, of course, but what is a mob rocket? Sounds like a cool band name.
Clickbait: "Not one guest at a full inn will give up a room for a pregnant woman, ON CHRISTMAS DAY!"
When I don't think the Bible can shock me anymore than it previously has, then I hear or read something that's even more immoral. What a disgusting book!
Agreed. While reading it from cover to cover decades ago, some of the passages made me throw the book across the room in horror and disgust.
@@rhondah1587 How long did that take you? That's something I may decide to take on, as an atheist.
@@ocvjw8734 It took me a couple of weeks to get through the whole thing and, of course, I was working full-time so I was only reading in the evenings and some on the weekends. I will say that it took me reading it twice all the way through to let it sink in just how awful and antiquated those writings were and that, for the most part, totally fictional fables and legends. Then I began search literature for the origins of when the ancient Israelites decided to start worshiping that god. Hint: They took it from the pantheon of gods the Canaanites worshiped. LOL
@@rhondah1587 Kudos to you for making it all the way through. I couldn't.
In high school I was a voracious reader. Sci-Fi, Russian classics, Enlightenment philosophy, basically any genre; I just loved reading. Eventually I had the epiphany, "I'm a Christian. Shouldn't I read the bible?". So, I started bringing the bible to school and reading during breaks (got some mixed reactions from doing so).
After hitting a couple true 'WTF!??' passages in the book fairly early on, I asked some supposed religious authorities to help me understand them. While I felt that their answers were unsatisfying and speculative, I believed that if I just continued reading I would be able to find the relevant context that would make it all make sense (After all, every other book that I'd read made sense eventually if I kept reading and paid attention). After making it over halfway through, though, it became glaringly obvious that no such context existed and I abandoned the whole endeavor.
The bible is probably the only book I could never finish, and that I was sorry to have even started. I believe I actually threw it in the trash out of frustration and disgust. It was incredible to me that I had never been warned about just how extremely BORING some parts were and how VILE some others were. It took me a while to realize that nobody around me had actually read the damn thing.
I'm glad there weren't any fundamentalists in my family, as I was allowed the freedom to share my opinions without much more than a disapproving glance, an invitation to wager à la Pascal, or a dismissal of my disbelief as 'a phase'. I dread to think what it would have been like if there had been an 'Andrew' in my family. Yikes.
Jesus is God
Andrew: Thank you for once again showing that atheists almost always know more about the bible than the "faithful".
“The best Cure for Christianity is reading the bible.”
- Mark Twain
"It ain’t supposed to make sense; it’s faith. Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe.”
- Archie Bunker
👍👍
And, I like Isaac Asimov's quote,
"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"The road to atheism is paved with bibles that have been read, cover to cover" -- Christy Powell
@@TheSnoeedog lol. I discovered a post of yours somewhere randomly from over a year ago. I thought about giving you a shout out in response but I didn’t want you to think I was stalking you.😂
@@xmillion1704 So long as your breath isn't fogging up my bedroom window, I think we're ok. 🤣🤣
Also, I'm a huge fan of people responding to my posts, regardless of age. The exception is anything with a >50 comment string, unless I'm the OP. Odds are, in that case, that I don't remember what I wrote to which one is responding, *AND* I don't want to wade through miles of posts looking for context. But I love when people respond to my posts (makes me feel better about venting into the aether, as it were!)
Live well
No Love displayed by God in the Bible anywhere, not a single time, think about this... not a single time in any of the stories does God show love OR compassion for humans and humanity. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
“I think hell is just separation from god.”
*literally 3 minutes later*
“If you find horrible things beautiful, then you’ll find hell beautiful.”
I think hell is having to listen Dre for eternity .
Chris switched his version of hell real fast when he got put into a corner
Forrest read directly from the bible that god specifically, actively hardened Pharaoh's heart. Andrew responded that Pharaoh had ALREADY hardened his own heart. At that point Forrest's question should have been "Where does the bible say that? Where are you getting all these nuances?" Andrew's answers sound like things one could just create out of whole cloth (that sounds nicer than Andrew is "pulling it out his arse.")
It's even worse than that. Even if we were to concede that the Pharaoh already decided to harden his heart, it's still a violation of free will for God to come down and further harden his hard. It's not a direct refutation to say God hardened his heart even more than Pharaoh wanted, even if he made the decision initially. If I want to feel angry, that doesn't mean I want to feel even more angry than I want to now, and for someone to come make me even more angry is still a violation of my "free will." This is, of course, all under the assumption that we have any free will at all.
Andrew was just that trash at his own garbage apologetics.
God tells Moses to go talk to the Pharaoh and tells him that it will be useless because he will harden the Pharaoh's heart. It says in Exodus 4:21
_The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. _*_But I will harden his heart_*_ so that he will not let the people go."_
If the Pharoah had already hardened his own heart, why would god need to plan on hardening the Pharaoh's heart???
@@siezethebidet Admittedly, Andrew was slinging so much terrible crap it would be hard to target each and every incoming shit-missile.
Clickbait: Headline Jerusalem: 500 Zombies on the March / Attack Imminent!!
What happened to all the Zombies , where did they go after entering Jerusalem ?
@@gordonlynn8300 See, there was this raging huge rave. They blended right in. Folks didn’t bathe regularly anyway and someone had discovered this plant that, if you burnt it and inhaled the smoke . . . let’s just say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has NOTNIN’ on this bad b-o-i !!!!!
@@gordonlynn8300 There was this raging huge rave. They blended right in. Folks didn’t bathe regularly anyway and someone had discovered this plant that, if you burnt it and inhaled the smoke . . . let’s just say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has NOTNIN’ on this bad b-o-i !!!!!
Calling into a a live show with a bunch of incredibly intelligent and well read atheists and trying to defend slavery... I could live to be a thousand years old and I will never understand why someone would purposely do that to themselves. It's got to be some sort of weird new form of penance. Forget your self-flagellation stick at home? No worries, just try to defend biblical slavery.for 27 minutes.
Here Andrew, lemme help. Which is worse: eating shrimp or your ability to listen, understand, and actually answer a question properly?
How was the shrimp prepared?
@@mobrocket Andrew prefers it extra rare, (still moving) and shoved, (sideways) . . .
Lol!!!! GE!!! That look about Jesus being real had me laughing so hard 🤣🤣🤣
Clickbait: He couldn't handle the idea that his son would be his nephew - we spill the beans on Onan!
Oh dear Dre. 'The bible is historically accurate' Oh dear! Have we a known date for the supposed crucifixion? And all those dead people walking the streets, that's really well reported!
People like Dre operate based upon the really broad claim, and maybe a handful of examples to support the claim, when they're nowhere close supporting the really broad claim.
EDIT: After posting the above, I just got to his worldwide darkness claim, with one alleged corroborating example from the Chinese. "Worldwide" with two alleged examples. 😂
I’ve got a good click bait Bible story title:
“Yahweh absolutely DESTROYS 42 bratty children”
Jesus is God 😊
@@tylerdyson8410 words are wind, my friend
Look there is a God everything on earth has a brilliant purpose it we need need water for lakes , rivers , drinking , bathing ect. Our bodies are definitely designed brilliantly we have hands we use them for writing , driving , texting ect. No evolving could of knew we needed them for but God did he knows how God is the brilliant mind behind it.
@@tylerdyson8410 there is very little drinking water on earth. Did you know that people needed to drink alcohol during the Middle Ages because clean water was so scarce? Yet people are damned to hell for being an alcoholic. What kind of perfect design is that.
Our bodies are the result of evolution natural selection.
@@tylerdyson8410 you're literally the puddle in the analogy 😂...sad how religion has removed your ability to critically think
Andrew: no pronouns given
Ok, not a great start
Andrew: “I’m going to defend slavery in the Bible.”
Yeah, that sounds about right.
@godlessengineer; "I don't understand why people go to the question of why you wouldn't worship him". I feel it's just a simple trick to skip the burden of proof on their god's existence, and instead focus on the story, where all they need is make excuses for our objections to it's character.
I get that feeling too
I can listen to people who’ve “interpreted” the slavery stuff ALL DAMN DAY. Thanks guys, your work is appreciated.
Clickbait: God creating the universe caught on camera.
we need Epicurean Flowchart Bingo in the background of each of these calls! 🤣
Mr Michael not understanding what an abortion is is a perfect example of how scary it is when people want to involve themselves in people's healthcare without understanding what they're talking about.
He didn't even understand what the original argument was about.
I think I remember his voice from other shows, and being trollish.
@@duskyrose9243 . . . and the votes of these idiots count as much as yours and mine!
Mr M =Incel
He was very much a troll. Either that or he's just phenomenally stupid.
Dre missed the fact that Apologists went looking for eclipse events near that time, THEN declared that was the day Jesus was crucified. They drew the target around the arrow and called it a hit.
But what happened to all the risen dead at the crucifixion? No one mentions that.
There is no logic in claiming magic, the magical claims in the bible are not historical, and even when they had the old testament to copy from, they were not consistent.
The bible is a mess.
The funny thing is, they found the wrong eclipse. It wasn't a solar eclipse, it was a lunar one.
Jesus rose from the dead he is God
Oh man, GE's expression when Dre was talking about the historical facts about Jesus perfectly matched my own.
And why did god need lamb's blood to mark the doors of the Israelites to make sure he passed over? Wouldn't God know where the Israelites were already?
Clickbait: "Despite being restrained by 3 nails, and having no ladder, wanted criminal escapes justice!"
Not gonna lie,
You’ve set the bar high.
I just find it funny that Christians state Jesus was innocent of the crime he was crucified for and then confirm his guilt when they explain who he was and what he was doing.
@@xmillion1704 Thank you...
That's the "Life of Brian"
That's good man!
Poor Andrew. He has sacrificed his humanity and ability to think about anything critically in deference to an incredibly immoral storybook.
Andrew's god is the ultimate Republican: It's OK when he does it.
I'm seeing another Roland the Closet Goblin plush thing sitting in Forests shelf, don't think it was there before. Any chance either ones like that or the one in the AXP studio might ever become merch? Cause I would totally buy either. Or both :3 All hail to Roland! Or rather all sandwiches to Roland!
1:51:33 as well as Constantine, Emperor of Rome, decided to make Christianity a STATE RELIGION. That's why it force spread.
why do they always try to defend slavery ......
They have to, or their house of cards collapses
@@SalisburyKarateClub I get that, but such a silly hill to choose to die on.
The fact that sooooo many xians, in this day and age, will happily accept, and support, slavery is frightening.
They can’t admit any flaws in their book / religion
Because if slavery is bad then the bible is bad.
Sincere answer: the moment you start questioning the morality of the Bible, you are endowing yourself with the authority to question the Bible. And it simply doesn’t hold up to even moderate scrutiny.
Andrew simply just say
"Might makes right"
Yepp, ultimatly that's what they all say. Of course you just need to wade throught assumptions, sophistry, excuses and in many cases unrelated babble quoting to get there thought. My theory, theists dont really like saying that quiet part aloud becaus sane people will look at them with horror and carefully back away.
Clickbait: Angry God Goes Berserk, Floods and Kills Entire Planet, But Leaves Pretty Awesome Rainbow!🌈(thx johnrap)
Minus people who enjoy incest..😮
Clickbait... See how much rain we're about to get.
...but thanks for the rainbows.
Hey, this isn't a dig or anything, I promise
You're hear early and often, have you ever considered making timestamps? If you've ever seen any of mine, I tend to go off the rails railing about the callers. But most people prefer timestamps and it's pretty easy to prepare them in a document while watching in real time. You are always among the earliest posters, suggesting that you're watching in ( or near enough to) real time. If your first post was the corresponding time stamps, I can assure you that I (and I suspect others) would fuckin' love you for it.
...Food for thought? (you know who this is directed at, lol)
Live well
@@johnrap7203 Ah, man. I’m gonna steal that to tag my submission. I pray that’s okay.(?)
There, yes. That pushes it right over the top!
Clickbait: "Nazareth woman cheats on husband... her excuse will shock you!"
“woman” should probably read “girl” given what experts posit her age at the time.
I love how both eating shellfish and murder are important enough for God to bring his full authority to put an immediate stop to, but for some reason he has to coddle us and bide his time when it comes to stopping slavery.
Andrew, have you ever directly answered a simple question in your life?
Clickbait: Hero leads slaves toward freedom with captors in close pursuit. A massive sea blocks their escape. All hope seems lost, but suddenly, the hero raises his staff. What happens next is absolutely mind blowing.
Your patience is remarkable! I couldn’t hide my contempt for Dre’s “intellect” and “ logic”.🙄 No other pun intended .😂
How unfair of you guys to not let Andrew ramble on and on about nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic
The bible doesn't have eyewitness statements. They have stories from an unknown person who said something about what another unknown person said. I court even if there's only an eyewitness statement, we at least confirm that person is real and question them
1:01:16 Andrew has now dug his own hole through the entire earth. 😂
Dear Christians, and Andrew specifically. Perhaps it's just best not to defend ANY slavery? I mean, really. FFS, what the hell is wrong with ~your~ morals?
There could not be an eclipse at the time of the crucifixion. Passover is at the full moon while eclipses occur at the new moon and solar eclipses also are limited to a swath of territory and are not visible worldwide. Some Christians, like many Catholics, propose that it was a sandstorm many of which do occur in this area around the time of the Passover. However, it seems more likely to me that people who lived in that area would know to say it was a sandstorm and not a mysterious darkness.
I dunno, being whipped S&M style sounds like heaven to me.
1:44:26 what's not logical is to believe anything without evidence that comports with reality. 1:45:02
New Testament examples of submission include: the young Jesus submitting to Joseph and Mary (Luke 2:51), God the Son submitting to God the Father (1 Cor. 15:27-28), the church submitting to Christ (Eph. 1:22), believers submitting to God (Heb. 12:9;
Andrew must be one of the most dishonest callers I've heard on this show. The lengths he goes to in order to justify his belief are almost incomprehensible.
I’m so glad someone enjoys arguing with religious people. Love it.
Love hearing someone extoll their intelligence, then proceed to only say moronic nonsense.
This was one of the best episodes ever.
"You don't live in a fantasy world, so you won't understand my fantasy." - Dre
Forrest said to "Mr Michael do you have anything else coherent to say". I'd argue, as to whether he had anything coherent to say at all. Well done Forrest and John, for putting up with the guests you had today it must have been hard, it was for us on the outside looking in.
I've run into an argument online related to the beginning of the video. It goes something like this "If god's existence were proven to you would you worship him?" you answer no "oh, well that's why he doesn't reveal himself to you in a way that would convince you because believing doesn't mean anything without worship and he knows even if he gave you the evidence to believe you wouldn't worship"
If every putrid thing that a "god" does is "good",
isn't this caller worried that his "god" does NOT have his ( or humans ) best interests at heart ?
Because his "god" can be totally anti-human at heart, but that is still all good to that "God".
How can this caller ( or God believers ) have a coherent logical moral system, if it's based on some big guys moods & self importance ?
When the books are all over the place with morality.
It's amazing how much this "gods" ideas & moods etc are exactly like a person's would be 🤔.
It's almost like a "god" is a reflection of the wants of the people that said we have to obey it.🤦♀️
A god that could stop the Earth rotating without destroying everything on the surface only a few thousand years ago, Now it can't even appear on a TV show,
And the biblical God doesn't deserve worship.
"No Other Pun Intended" is my new favorite phrase. Put that shit on a t-shirt
Andrew is another data point in the strong correlation between the worst arguments for christianity and not understanding how pronouns work.
If Andrew thinks Biblical slavery is good and justifiable, then why did the Israelites want to leave Egypt at all? Why not just stay there in their nice, cozy slavery?
Whenever an apologist says biblical slavery is good I ask them if they will be my slave under the Bible's rules for slavery. So far, none of them have taken the opportunity.
@@cnault3244 that’s definitely one way to force them to empathize lol
explanation of why the sky went dark........
night
Andrew, Yahweh can tell you to not eat shrimp, I'm sure, if he were real, and moral, he could have said "thou shalt not own a human being as property."
Clickbaity Bible Story: "God gave this psychopath superhuman strength! You'll never guess what he does with it!"
@@rcblazer Incorrect. God is simply the existence of Love we all acknowledge.
You couldn’t even write your comment without it.
@@damianedwards8827 What exactly did I get incorrect? Also, last time I checked no gods created TH-cam.
@@damianedwards8827
Stupidity is simply the absence of intelligence and education.
You couldn’t even write your comment without it.
@@rcblazer God is the existence of Love we all acknowledge. Everybody Believes Love exists. Including You.
And yes, Ego will be dismissive.
But
Since it’s our life Motivation,
You Literally couldn’t do anything
without it
Pretty Cool
@@rcblazer I mean, their shit is stupid enough without them taking an entry to a silly contest seriously. Ffs
Dre is super confused. It’s not baked into a worldview that there is no evidence of supernatural things.
It is a fact that there is no, or at least, no good evidence to justify believing
Using history, who’s history. The Mayans, the Aztecs, the Chinese, the Maori, the Zulu, . . . ???
@@MrCanis4 But it isn't evidence for the supernatural if there can be naturalistic explanations, even if we haven't discovered that explanation. There has to be a way to preclude the natural before you call it supernatural.
I refuse to acknowledge andrew as a human being. No human being will insist slavery isn't beyond vile
@eldritchwulfe I think morality changes as societies change, doesn't it? Do we adhere to absolute morality today? Are our socially-accepted morals today the same as they were 100 years ago? Was abortion considered a moral right 100 years ago? or Homosexuality? With that said, why does God - who cannot be immoral - allow slavery to continue, especially after the Exodus when He had an 'opportunity' to pass laws forbidding it? Think deeper.
wwlib believes it is absolutely moral to slaughter babies to punish the parents and has aggressively defended the perpetrator of such evil deeds.
@@wwlib5390lol god can't be immoral 😂😂😂😂😂😂
It acts in a way that is against the morality you claim comes from god.
@@wwlib5390 God allowed slavery to continue long after Exodus because god is a fiction made by men to justify their own beliefs and morals. That's why Christianity was used to justify American slavery. And later, Christianity was also used as an argument against slavery.
God can be made to say anything. Even things like the current scientific view that space is expanding infinitely. You can find some verse about god stretching the heavens (by which it means the sky and not space), and pretend that it means that the Bible is saying that space is expanding at an accelerated rate.
The best show on the planet
The best dua on this channel
for caller Dre, I'm concerned that he may think Philosophy to be Monolithic: like a secular religion in and of itself 😓
it's a mischaracterization that I've seen a LOT of theists make.
I would have really appreciated if he stopped being so condescending, yeah. I don't need you to explain how simple conversation is better, I need to you be clear, concise, and actually engage with the conversation, and not accuse me of not being logical when I just gave you a well-reasoned argument for why I don't believe what you believe.
@@NoahofWill to his credit, he was listening better than many others, at least at first, but "listening to reply" rather than "active listening" is a weakness he eventually fell to, just like all the other callers did.
And that philosophy is a place to eat
This particular episode these calls felt like an example of Poe's Law.
Clickbait: Amaze Your Friends with Floating Axe Head Trick (2 Kings 6:5-7)
These people calling to defend biblical slavery only ever view themselves as the "masters" in these situations. I think that needs to be challenged directly. "The bible says slavery is good so YOU are okay with being someone else's slave/property? And, also your children and your grandchildren?"
You are dead on. Others are the slaves. It could never be them.
. . . without realizing that owning another person should lead one directly into hell (in that belief system).
Clickbait: *_OMG! His best friend BETRAYED him! You WON'T BELIEVE what happened next! ... No, really, NO ONE SHOULD!!_*
Are you telling us that Thomas was his best friend?
@@holgerlubotzki3469 no, it was.... 👇
.... Subscribe to find out more!
Clickbait: Frustrated Fruit Farmer Commits Fratricide
Frustrated fruit farmers fermented
Seems like Dre's sources didnt say "we know this mountain is Mount Sinai. And hey look, it's burnt at the top. Confirms bible account.
Instead: well we are not even in the right country for what should be Mount Sinai. But that mountain's black on top. So it must be Mount Sinai. Bible account confirmed.
Andrew: “There is a strong incentive not to beat your slaves.”
Any Rationally Thinking Individual: “The incentive is for the owner of the slave or slaves to not beat said slave or slaves so they do not lose said slave or slaves…”
Seriously, the “incentive to not beat your slaves” was to not lose said slaves if by beating them you are commanded to let the free… that doesn’t negate slavery. Rather, this logic defends slavery. To not condemn a heinous act by explaining how people misrepresent the heinous act in a way which maintains said heinous act’s nature as still being heinous is to defend the heinous act in question.
The amount of calls I've heard in this channel defending or excusing slavery, is huh...
Concerning.
Andrew, chattel slavery is the same regardless of era.
@joshsheridan9511 While I agree with what you're trying to convey, I would make a slight change and say that chattel slavery is "wrong" regardless of the era, not necessarily the "same."
_Edit: For that matter regardless of the type of slavery, slavery is evil._
Bible clickbait: "They all marched in two by two, except for this one! You won't believe which animal didn't make it onto Noah's ark!"
Clickbait: abortion illegal in your state? Try our new recipe inside!
@@JenWith1N Wow!, just wow! This is so on point. Good one!
Love it😂
Clickbait: This man's neighbors made fun of him for starting a boat shaped zoo, but you'll be surprised at how he gets them back!
I think it’s very simple. For any reasonable and truly benevolent god to prove that he or she exists. The deity would have to appear to every human being on earth simultaneously and clearly state that it is the deity and to make sure there is no ambiguity state that it is Hindu or Egyptian or Jewish or whatever and that that is the correct system of laws and requirements. This would convince people of divergent religions to recognize what is correct. The fact that it happens simultaneously would be very convincing and unifying and would be a welcome relief to billions. Something a loving god would desire above all else.
Chris: "Trust me, bro."
Andrew: "Slavery is good. But I didnt say that."
There are already a couple of “clickbait” entries about Samson and I don’t want to step on their toes so this is NOT AN OFFICIAL CLICKBAIT ENTRY.
Watch Delilah’s Tips for Getting Rid of Split Ends
Click bait?
How to survive in the desert for 40 years.
And leave absolutely no trace that you were there. LOL
Clickbait title (based on call): God Shares His Top 10 Rules, How Many Times He Mentions Slavery May Surprise You
1:21 Dre: what is the explanation for why Genesis 1 and 2 have conflicting and inconsistent order of the creation?
1:38:15 god of the gaps fallacy
EDIT: 3min later he's inverted it and is almost saying that atheists are guilty of the "God of the Gaps Fallacy" except it's the... "science of the gaps fallacy"!?
I'm gobsmacked... 😦
Any better projection and we would be able to read their assertions on the surface of the moon.
@@riseofdarkleela 🤣🤣🤣100%!
If you can’t know god is evil because his ways are not your ways then how can you know he’s good? Because you’re using your human understanding of what it is to be good
How could you know if Allah is good or evil either? Because your ways could not determine if that god is good or evil either?
It’s ridiculous.
You know what is good and evil. Religion just brainwashes us to think that things that are clearly evil (all the wrong prescribed in the Bible) are actually good when god does them.
It’s absurd
"aluminum lobsters" 🤣 funny only to people 16 and under.
I’m hella old and I find the concept pretty cool and amusing but I’m guessing that it’s a specific reference to a more recent cultural touchstone.
OMG Roll for InitiaGive made it to $20k! THERE WILL BE MORE SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!
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