"I don't have a real problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, baseless and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept." - anyone who actually cares about verifiable reality
It's honestly baffling how some folks will go out of their way, burning precious daylight, just to call in and *defend* biblical slavery. Like, really? Of all the things to stand up for! And then, instead of gracefully exiting when the conversation gets tricky, they grab a shovel and start digging...deeper and deeper. It's almost like watching someone insist that quicksand is solid ground, and then wonder why they're sinking. And they always have the same go-to lines: 1) "Biblical slavery was about people being kidnapped!" - Sure, just like a broken lock is a security feature, right? 2) "Biblical slavery was just indentured servitude!" - Right, because nothing says 'voluntary' like, “You’re my property for life… and so are your kids.” 3) "You're misinterpreting the text. *I* have the real interpretation." - Oh, of course. Because centuries of scholars missed it, but somehow, you cracked the code. It’s like they’re determined to put a halo on something that’s clearly not glowing! Same shit... different toilet Every...single...time.
They have to. They know their dumb religion is full of fairytales, nonsense and crimes against humanity. They're desperate to come up with ways to feel better about believing it.
Mad props to the hosts for refusing to fall for the caller trying to pivot away to a new subject and dragging them back to relevant points whether he wanted to or not. That's what you gotta do when a caller is trying to slip out of a corner and go down a different rabbit hole.
In my experience, they avoid answering questions so that they have a small collection of topic changes to jump to when they get cornered, or can see that they're being logic'd into a corner. As soon as you catch them out with a great point to make them stop and think, that's when they'll suddenly jump to a question from half an hour ago. 19:14 - 19:44 Perfect example.
Exactly. I've had slavery apologists claim that it was a form of charity, FFS! He's an idea: If it's meant to be charity, then make it _charity._ Since when does charity involve the person receiving it becoming your property for years? Another called it the equivalent of an employment contract... that included savage beatings with a rod and the lifetime ownership of your children. Honestly, what is wrong with these people? Oh.. don't answer that, I know: they are deep in a cult.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 It just really breaks my brain in confusing ways. But always remember: An all powerfull, all knowing, all good god, couldn't find an alternative to slavery.
You know, according to brainwashed fools it's not "slavery" but "servitude", because there are rules. 😀Such small details like that slavery means owning people as property, which is exactly what it is, are totally irrelevant. 🙂
but if there is no good slavery, then biblical marriage (giving the woman to the man as property fully under his whims and wants) also would be wrong ;) I think the believers' heads would explode if you explained that to them...
I love the audacity of people saying, "oh, Biblical slavery wasn't as bad as US chattel slavery", when US-style chattel slavery was explicitly justified through Biblical teaching. As in, pro-slavery activists pointed out that slavery is condoned by their god, therefore, what the fuck is your problem?
No person in history would think to defend slavery if they thought they would be the victim of it. Only people who thought they would be the owners would defend it. So they mean slavery is OK for other people. For you. For your family.
@@quotedotesthat's a pretty low bar universal truth, no one wants to be owned as a slave. I have no clue why you are using deflection on this subject unless you're one of the ones that agrees with owning another human
The bible contradicts itself. Not many christians want to admit this, but it makes more sense as to why it would contradict, when understanding the history of not only the bible but also the putting together of various cannons. Its s bit of a mess, and then there are the translations... And mistranslations. Its complicated.
@@Plethorality When I tried to read the bible I thought it said, forgive those who do wrong, but then it also said to distance yourself from those who do wrong. That made no sense to me.
We have a foundation. It is just clearly flexible, so we can adapt if we find better ways. And what is the foundation? That is also a topic of disccusion, because it is about US, humans. How do we know, how our actions impact others? We talk to them. That is the point. Working together.
@@ginocavalieri6121 I believe, but don't want to put words in their mouth, Vertigo was saying Atheist have a foundation. And I am thinking that their point is that if we see that our actions and such are creating harm to others, and society at large we change our processes to not harm, but rather benefit. At least that is how I read it.
As a former Christian myself I remember just how good my brain was at ignoring and reinterpreting inconvenient facts in the Bible. As an atheist now it depresses me when I hear current Christians do the same thing that I used to do. And in the moment it makes sense to them because most of them grew up teaching their own brains how to rationalize every questionable thing about their religion. It makes me realize what religions do to a person’s ability to be intellectually honest with themselves and others.
The way religion works is you get the congregation to gaslight themselves. And in that way, it is distribution of labor and the clergy can then just take all the virgins, live tax free, life with no accountability, and have a minor army to defend themselves with. That is the power of speaking for the invisible boogey man in the sky who is utterly impotent to speak for himself.
@@condor07uk That’s a scary truth. So many people mix their religious beliefs with politics. I can’t tell you the number of times I have heard Christian’s say things like “You can’t call yourself a real Christian and vote democrat”.
this is what happens when you have backward christians running your education system, you get vile little bigots like this caller who tries to say that working off a debt is the same thing as slavery
It's ok, we understand. Yours is exactly the comment that I leave when someone from my part of the world calls in and talks nonsense. shhhh......it'll all be over very soon.
"who is this "bible"" You see: a few thousand years ago, some people wrote down how they thought the universe was created. This was generally considered a bad move.
In all fairness the call screeners should inform anybody that wants to defend slavery in the Bible that there is a 100% chance that they are going to look sick, stupid, and horrible. Andrew was no exception
In all fairness people should go throw some cold water on their faces in the bathroom, take a long look at themselves in the mirror, and ask themselves, "Am I going to look like a dimwitted bigoted hillbilly for defending some bronze age culture's slavery?" And at that point they should nod to themselves and assert, "Yes I am going to look like an utter uneducated, barbaric, and petty little man if I do this." And then they should find something better to do, like knitting, or perhaps pick up a book on science, or like and subscribe to this channel.
If you need to be told that you'll look like a stupid, sick, horrible person when your goal is to defend slavery you're already too far gone for the call screener to help
How happy am I to be have always been an atheist and never having the need to defend and justify slavery, genocide, violation of human rights just to make religion look good, that is disgusting
“There’s an incentive for slave owners to treat them well!” Sure man. An incentive. God offers a pizza party annually for slave owners who don’t kill any of their slaves. 💀
“And if a man beats his male or female slave with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.” (Exodus 21:20-21)
And always remember: Who will believe a slave over a master? You beat your slave to death, who is there to speak against you? Slaves are DEFINED, as not having the same rights and status as their masters. I don't think amnesty international was a thing back then.
Good for you, John and Forrest for not putting up with his deflections and gaslighting attempts. You have a firmer foundation for what you know to be right than this person. Even with subjective morality, we can agree that it's wrong to subjugate other human beings and use them as property.
@@sammur1977 depends on how they treat the dog. Most people would see dogs as pets or treasured members of their family, more than simple property. We have an ethical duty to treat them gently. People are never property.
@@sammur1977 I'm not married no. and I'm nobody's property, I'm an autonomous moral agent. If one day, I find a partner she will not belong to me, but also an autonomous moral agent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Enjoy the rest of your day.
conservatives have a defunct sense of empathy, they are immune to the test of the "veil of ignorance" (that is the question "would you still approve of this rule if you could not up front say if it would apply to you or not?").
@sammur1977 So when they butchered families except for the young virgin girls that they were allowed to take and keep, those were not slaves? Or when you take these "Maidservants" for life- and give them and their children to your children as property?
@@sammur1977 --- Not only is slavery NOT condemned in the Bible, Leviticus 25:44-46 explains where and how to procure slaves. Owning people "as property and beating them" (Exodus 21:20,21) IS EXACTLY as we know it today. You're not allowed to pass your servants down to your children or beat them to within an inch of their lives today but the Israelites were with slaves/servants back then. Not only did Jesus fail to condemn the practice, but Paul told slaves to submit themselves to their masters, even the cruel ones. But thanks for proving my point, "there's no atrocity so heinous that if their god condones it they won't try and justify it."
I think the one aspect that is not discussed enough is the commandment of manstealing, and how this has exceptions, whilst also allowing purchase slaves from foreign countries. If you don't kidnap them it's fine. All too often this is a pathetic attempt at apologetics.
There are commenters on this video insisting that people don't have a fair view of slavery in the bible. And their argument is that it's a way to disburse debt, so it's not comparable to American or "Muslim" slavery.🤦♂️ I don't understand how they can keep giving this argument.
Andy did not hear about 99% of that convo, Forest and GE asked him many questions very clearly, and on at least one he had to ask Forrest to re ask. Like seriously Andy? Please remove your fingers from your ears so you can hear, it will be ok.
Always seeing themselves as slavers, never as slaves. Very moral to imagine that they own others like property and can do anything they want with them since the slaves belong to them.
Yeah, that's sad. Those monsters will only understand the topic if they would make that experience first hand. But that is not possible, because it would make us equal monsters. Don't "hesitate". They actually do those really bad things in the millions. Just look at the crime-statistics. The part about femicides. Men act on a daily basis with pure contempt, consider their partners to be their property and commit terrible acts of violence when this is questioned. So if you think we are much more advanced as a society than these shepherds... then you are deceiving yourself. Have a good one:)
Yes , how true . The Democrat Party is the political party of the old South and the KKK . The Republican Party was formed in 1856 to end slavery and Abe Lincoln was the first Republican President. The Abolitionist movement in Great Britain and America was started by Christians like William Wilberforce and John Newton
Yes , how true . The Democrat Party is the political party of the Old South and The KKK . The Republican party was formed to put an end to slavery and Abe Lincoln was the first Republican President . The Abolitionist Movement was started by Christians like William Wilberforce and John Newton
Caller just acknowledged other gods exist when talking about the first born sons. Unwittingly said “my perfect god screwed up, and used slavery to fix his mistakes.”
Because the Jesus in the bible, is a myth, probably made up of a collection of different people, and embellished with details. But also because the people in charge of the religion didn't *want* to give up their slaves.
I honestly do not understand why people like Andrew do this to themselves. It's like he wants to be humiliated. Is calling into the show some kind of kink among apologists?
It's part of the persecution kink. The Bible says that true Christians will be persecuted, so people like Andrew will call into these places to pick a fight so they can feel persecuted, and thus feel like a true Christian. Never mind that as the majority religion in the US, Christianity is the one doing the persecution.
After reading and interpreting the BIBLE on their own, Atheists and Christians never stop arguing, debating, and quarreling about GOD with Atheists claiming that GOD doesn't exist and Christians claiming that GOD tortures human beings for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but what really is the worth, value, and importance of Atheism and Christianity to GOD? ANSWER - Nothing, Atheism and Christianity are worthless and useless, no value whatsoever to GOD who KNOWS that his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 is NOT for Atheists and Christians but ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King and the teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are also NOT for Atheists and Christians but ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others who are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@joshsheridan9511 What is the worth, value, and importance of GOD and the BIBLE to Atheists and Christians? ANSWER - Nothing, all that were written in the Bible about GOD are worthless and useless, nothing but lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales to Atheists and Christians. What is the worth, value, and importance of Atheism and Christianity to GOD? ANSWER - Nothing, Atheism and Christianity are worthless and useless, no value whatsoever to GOD who KNOWS that his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 is NOT for Atheists and Christians but ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King and the teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are also NOT for Atheists and Christians but ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others who are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@joshsheridan9511 My brain just shuts off after reading the first sentence. Even if I would want to read further, I can't do his paraphrasing, it messes with me. Why do they spend this ungodly amount of time, spewing their non-sense, and not presenting it in a readable way? Like church flyers in 20 different fonts and colors and sizes. Maybe it is a filter. If you are willing to go through it, we can make you believe anything.
This is the problem I see with a lot of Christians - they don’t read their Bible but think they know what’s in it because their priest/pastor told them so.
Agreed, my 90 year old very Christian aunt admittied she never read the bible in her entire life. And she is a very intelligent person who was a CEO of a middle sized company. My problem with the Christian in this video is that they read the text with a dishonest mindset.
Well the pastors know where their money comes from, " They have an incentive..." Take the money out of religion and religion dies. Its just a different game of 3 card monty...
How is Forrest "borrowing" from Andrew's worldview when he doesn't defend slavery of any type and thinks God is immoral? Such a weird way to defend a bad position.
Huge point about the hypocrisy and dishonesty of this caller -- he defends slavery by saying that God making a rule against it would violate free will, but the Bible is filled with rules God makes about what is moral and what is immoral. Free will means people can choose to obey instructions or not, it doesn't mean there can't be instructions in the first place. And I guarantee that this caller would NEVER say the rules against murder, or theft, or gay sex, or working on Shabbos (or more likely in the caller's case working on Sunday because he tossed out the original day of rest and replaced it with a new one) are violations of free will. And the caller is LYING when he says he's not for slavery -- he wouldn't spend the whole time justifying slavery if he were really opposed to it. He wouldn't try to say slavery was the slaves' own fault. But he's a terrible person so he'll never do that.
AND if their god has all the Omni's they claim, then there can be no free will. If God knows everything about your life before you were born, then you are just an actor going though an unchangeable script.
Back flip? More like a triple back corkscrew twist half back front gainer loopdy loop. But unfortunately their knees came apart on the dismount and got disqualified.
American slavery was non different from slavery anywhere else, we just view it as worse because it's close enough to us to not be able to dismiss it and to see how awful it was.
My assumption without looking it up would actually be that slavery gets worse the more you go back in time just by nature of more primitive people having rougher lives and societies being more violent. But I agree that more recent examples of slavery feel more personal, more real, and therefore far scarier.
@@LaCeiba1924 Do you want to explain to me how slaves in that area could run back to their countries of origin or be liberated by people they had a heritage with......is somehow worse than being transported to a different continent thousands of miles across an ocean with no hopes of return, ever? And how somehow it is better when one culture has utter technological superiority and the infrastructure to make guns....is somehow a better living condition than slavery in a time and place where a horse or donkey could be stolen and a person could hide well enough to escape? More modern slavery just made it much easier to have larger populations of slaves. Being an ocean away from home makes a huge difference in outcomes and the enforcability of slavery. The truth is, the more modernized slavery is made to be, the more inescapable it becomes.
@@OceanusHeliosWe were stating what our **uneducated assumptions** would be about the topic - opinions that are inherently flawed because they aren’t based on research but on our own minimal background. So I’m not sure why you’re coming at me so strongly. If I wanted to have a detailed, nuanced discussion, I’d go read up on these subjects first because I don’t know anything about medieval or ancient methods of slavery. I wouldn’t dare argue either side of the argument because I don’t know enough to do so. My base assumption is one thing, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking an official side on this topic at this time. I’d want to learn more first.
It was different, it's simple to understand. American Slavery was about the color of their skin. They were considered inferior in their plenitude. There was no space for them, they had no rights. They had no space outside of Africa. The amount of slaves was a complete and disgusting another level. They were completely strutuctured to be nothing other then an object. There are similarilies, just because is slavery after all. But American Slavery had a lot of tiny details that made it different.
In the Antebellum United Statess, it was a crime to kidnap free black citizens in Northern free states**, even though it was perfectly legal to engage in slave trade between and within slave states in the South. Historically, there were both legal and illegal ways to conduct slave trade - as with any other practice. There were more commonalities between Israelite chattel slavery and American slavery than apologists know or are willing to admit. ** a famous case study of such as Solomon Northrup, who wrote of his experiences in his memoir "12 Years a slave; was made into an oscar-winning film
@@AvaEFF It's more an offhand comment on Andrew's argument that Exodus 21:16 against mainstealing means the bible is against slavery, because it ignores how it relates to the broader institution. In the ancient world, there were legal and illegal ways to acquire slaves, and while kidnapping free citizens was broadly prohibited, chattel slavery was still practiced. The US had similar rules as well. I'm pointing out the parallels between illegal slave trade in the ancient world with that of the transatlantic slave trade and show why it's invalid and misunderstands the institution across time and history, and why the apologist's effort to try and distinguish both practices is flawed, even though ancient slavery is evil on its own merits without any comparison. Essentially, the argument "biblical slavery was nothing like the Transatlantic slavery or Slavery in the US south" is not merely a strawman, but it's also simply not true. There are many commonalities. But even if there weren't, slavery is evil in itself.
Also, of course it is forbitten to steal someones slaves, because there are his property, and to just make random people slaves. We have rules by god, who and how to make others slaves. Do people think, you could just make anyone in the US a slave? No, at that point you were born a slave.
@@jaflenbond7854 What do you think you achieve with your pathetic trolling? I mean except feeding the algorithm and help spread these videos among more people. Nobody read your rambling. 😀And look how weak, pathetic, incompetent, lazy loser you god is if he needs such troll spamming such BS. 😀You only prove you believe in nonsense.
Bible states it's the absolute word of god and that god can't lie, but also states god is omnipotent. It's a Contradiction and because one of these claims can't be true do to the other it's a lie. Irony at it's best.
I struggled with the whole slavery issue in the Bible when I was a teen. I grew up in a conservative Baptist family/church, went to Awana Clubs (child indoctrination cult) and the whole nine yards (except for homeschool, thank goodness). The BS explanation I was given was: slavery was one of the things God accepted before Jesus, like how God accepted animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins before Jesus. I tried my best to make sense out of the senseless because I was terrified I'd go to the "Lake of Fire" if I lost my faith/belief. Religious indoctrination really messed with my head. I feel sad for this kid. And the whole issue of God hardening people's hearts gave me nightmares after first learning that story when I was a kid (a lot of the stuff in the Bible gave me nightmares when I was a kid, all the kids being unalived especially). What if God hardened my heart like he did the Pharaoh's, and I did something murderously evil? That was almost as horrifying as God imposing everlasting/eternal punishment on everyone whose name isn't in the "Book of Life."
It’s easy to defend something when it’s abstract, much harder when it’s actually put into practice. Unfortunately, religious people get to claim that things will be better, while living in a world that will make sure they never get to experience the negative consequences of what they want, in fairytale
I feel it's worth noting that the prohibition on returning escaped slaves isn't the same as freeing those slaves. It could easily be interpreted as saying that if your slave wanders into israelite territory, well they're an israelite slave now. This passage isn't necessarily moral.
Andrew hoped to show up atheists. The first born were the oldest. They were most likely to survive and given the greater amount of food (grain) which may have been infected with a mold causing illness or death. As an atheist I approve of the comment .
Ironically, because of that mouldy grain, humans have (evolved) about the highest tolerance to the mycotoxin of Aspergillus moulds in the animal kingdom. It must have killed A LOT of people to have that effect on such small number of generations.
I just like to think about how many people god killed and the plagues he brought forth, to get them OUT of slavery, but then says, hey maybe this isn't so bad when WE have the slaves... The entire spectacle of it all and to still promote it is insane. Great video guys!
Wilful ignorance is a helluva drug. No matter what they'll justify it because it doesn't matter what it says, it doesn't matter what is real, the only thing that matters is that they know the "truth" and nothing can be allowed to interfere with that known "truth" so they'll outright deny what the bible says if it interferes with it. They have made their own reality with their own religious texts that mean something completely different than what the text they play pretend to follow says.
I used to blindly accept what I was told, too. Now, I think for myself, and I know that these stories, are simple fairy tales, told for purposes other than to impart truth.
@@robertcarsten4050 Not all things are possible. Think of how long there's been war in the Middle East. Think of all the sick and hungry. Think of how Jesus is still unable to come back to earth. And god hasn't given us the Grand Unified Theory in physics. So it seems like there are a lot of things that are not possible through god. He can't even stop my bananas from getting brown if I don't eat them soon enough.
LIES bring DISHONOR and ETERNAL DEATHS The LIE and false claim that the GOD and Father of Jesus Christ doesn't exist and the LIES and false teachings and doctrines of the anti-Christs about "hellfire", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation" will definitely bring nothing but dishonor, disgrace, shame and ETERNAL DEATHS to Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists. TRUTHS bring HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH The BIBLE is the source of the TRUTHS that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 will definitely bring honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 to lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 is the guarantee that lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!* "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9 "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16
@@thejabberwocky2819 REJECTION of ATHEISM, CHRISTIANITY, and RELIGIONS bring HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH The teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 is offensive and unacceptable to Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of Religions but will definitely bring honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 to lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever and willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 is also NOT for Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of Religions but ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others who are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
The trolls in the comments section are useful that way too... They call in and think they make a point but can't comprehend how wrong they are, but other people looking their comments can see it easily..
"I'm not trying to defend slavery." Goes on to defend slavery.
"I'm not trying to defend slavery", no he's clearly failing to defend slavery lol
"I don't have a real problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, baseless and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept."
- anyone who actually cares about verifiable reality
Someone really needs to tell Andrew: “If you have to lie in order to defend “your truth,” then it was never true to begin with.”
Or... if you have to lie to make a point you don't have a point to make.
@@Scottaskadly Yes. That too.
He's probably lying to himself though. Hopefully this conversation will get him to study a little more before he calls in to make a fool of himself.
Those who believe in lies will lie to defend their beliefs.
Some apologists think defending their faith or gaining converts awards them brownie points.
It's honestly baffling how some folks will go out of their way, burning precious daylight, just to call in and *defend* biblical slavery. Like, really? Of all the things to stand up for! And then, instead of gracefully exiting when the conversation gets tricky, they grab a shovel and start digging...deeper and deeper. It's almost like watching someone insist that quicksand is solid ground, and then wonder why they're sinking.
And they always have the same go-to lines:
1) "Biblical slavery was about people being kidnapped!" - Sure, just like a broken lock is a security feature, right?
2) "Biblical slavery was just indentured servitude!" - Right, because nothing says 'voluntary' like, “You’re my property for life… and so are your kids.”
3) "You're misinterpreting the text. *I* have the real interpretation." - Oh, of course. Because centuries of scholars missed it, but somehow, you cracked the code.
It’s like they’re determined to put a halo on something that’s clearly not glowing!
Same shit... different toilet
Every...single...time.
Noooooo, but you see, you have to look at it ""collectively"", it's not a dictionary, it's a story 😢😢
@@quotedotes You mean it's just a fable, right?
They have to. They know their dumb religion is full of fairytales, nonsense and crimes against humanity. They're desperate to come up with ways to feel better about believing it.
@@lennym1636 nooo, its like a fable, but real this time!
Jesus didn't have slaves.
Mad props to the hosts for refusing to fall for the caller trying to pivot away to a new subject and dragging them back to relevant points whether he wanted to or not. That's what you gotta do when a caller is trying to slip out of a corner and go down a different rabbit hole.
Godless engineer was on his game on this one.
In my experience, they avoid answering questions so that they have a small collection of topic changes to jump to when they get cornered, or can see that they're being logic'd into a corner.
As soon as you catch them out with a great point to make them stop and think, that's when they'll suddenly jump to a question from half an hour ago.
19:14 - 19:44 Perfect example.
Both of them got cajones to call shit out and not hold back. Solid dudes on my book
“You have no basis for morality!” Says the person defending slavery
Irony not his subject LOL
More interestingly enough, the FACTS show Atheists are more honest, more moral, and much better people than Christians.
To quote the Hulk "Puny god"
As Forrest says "There is no good slavery". How anyone can think otherwise is beyond me!
Exactly. I've had slavery apologists claim that it was a form of charity, FFS! He's an idea: If it's meant to be charity, then make it _charity._ Since when does charity involve the person receiving it becoming your property for years?
Another called it the equivalent of an employment contract... that included savage beatings with a rod and the lifetime ownership of your children.
Honestly, what is wrong with these people? Oh.. don't answer that, I know: they are deep in a cult.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2
It just really breaks my brain in confusing ways.
But always remember: An all powerfull, all knowing, all good god, couldn't find an alternative to slavery.
You know, according to brainwashed fools it's not "slavery" but "servitude", because there are rules. 😀Such small details like that slavery means owning people as property, which is exactly what it is, are totally irrelevant. 🙂
Tradition
but if there is no good slavery, then biblical marriage (giving the woman to the man as property fully under his whims and wants) also would be wrong ;) I think the believers' heads would explode if you explained that to them...
I love the audacity of people saying, "oh, Biblical slavery wasn't as bad as US chattel slavery", when US-style chattel slavery was explicitly justified through Biblical teaching. As in, pro-slavery activists pointed out that slavery is condoned by their god, therefore, what the fuck is your problem?
@@saveusmilkboy also, the people who were slave owners, used the bible as justification for it. They even had a slave bible 🤣
Lmao expecting Americans to know any fucking history
Andrew will make a good apologist when he grows up.
He's already got the dishonesty and whining down pat.
Bingo. Very necessary skills, when your job is to lie and manipulate, to keep the ignorant masses ignorant.
his christian persecution complex is kicking in nicely
“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)
sign me up for that!
No person in history would think to defend slavery if they thought they would be the victim of it. Only people who thought they would be the owners would defend it. So they mean slavery is OK for other people. For you. For your family.
And this is why this belief system is fading away.
Andrew, thanks for helping the cause…
Amen.
@@quotedotes Edit : Ramen.
@@torejssing7515 Edit of Edit: Kamen Rider.
2024, and we still can't agree as a species that owning another human being is probably not a good thing....
We can't agree about *anything* as a species. That's not really the bar you should be using. It is sad though, I agree.
@@quotedotesthat's a pretty low bar universal truth, no one wants to be owned as a slave. I have no clue why you are using deflection on this subject unless you're one of the ones that agrees with owning another human
All except the religious seem to think that slavery is wrong.
I feel like if there wasn't a religious book telling it's followers it's OK to own human beings, this would be damn near unanimous
@@sidecarmisanthrope5927 It's not even most of the religious.
Andrew: "People cherry pick from the Buy Bull."
Yes. We call those people "Christians."
however, there are no cherries. christians pick the least stinking dung balls.
The bible contradicts itself. Not many christians want to admit this, but it makes more sense as to why it would contradict, when understanding the history of not only the bible but also the putting together of various cannons.
Its s bit of a mess, and then there are the translations... And mistranslations.
Its complicated.
@@Plethorality
When I tried to read the bible I thought it said, forgive those who do wrong, but then it also said to distance yourself from those who do wrong. That made no sense to me.
“You’re misrepresenting my arguments!” No Andrew. They’re reading you bits of the bible your pastor didn’t bring to your attention, that’s all.
Caller: calls to defend slavery
Also caller: “Y’all have no foundation for your world view”
This is what religion does to your brain.
We have a foundation. It is just clearly flexible, so we can adapt if we find better ways.
And what is the foundation? That is also a topic of disccusion, because it is about US, humans.
How do we know, how our actions impact others?
We talk to them.
That is the point. Working together.
Caller is calling in to defend slavery..
17:25 "you're putting words into my mouth".. 17:37 "I'm not defending slavery. I never said that"... 🤣🤣🤣
@@vertigo4236 oh yea, lol! Something that religion is known for is being flexible! Lol.
Could have been worse, he could have said you atheists have no morality! Always funny after defending slavery!
@@ginocavalieri6121 I believe, but don't want to put words in their mouth, Vertigo was saying Atheist have a foundation. And I am thinking that their point is that if we see that our actions and such are creating harm to others, and society at large we change our processes to not harm, but rather benefit. At least that is how I read it.
As a former Christian myself I remember just how good my brain was at ignoring and reinterpreting inconvenient facts in the Bible. As an atheist now it depresses me when I hear current Christians do the same thing that I used to do. And in the moment it makes sense to them because most of them grew up teaching their own brains how to rationalize every questionable thing about their religion. It makes me realize what religions do to a person’s ability to be intellectually honest with themselves and others.
The way religion works is you get the congregation to gaslight themselves. And in that way, it is distribution of labor and the clergy can then just take all the virgins, live tax free, life with no accountability, and have a minor army to defend themselves with. That is the power of speaking for the invisible boogey man in the sky who is utterly impotent to speak for himself.
@@4dojo and specifically they go and vote
@@condor07uk That’s a scary truth. So many people mix their religious beliefs with politics. I can’t tell you the number of times I have heard Christian’s say things like “You can’t call yourself a real Christian and vote democrat”.
As a lifelong North Carolina resident, I'm sorry for people like this
I’m sorry that you live in the same region as this person.
As a nonresident so am I.
this is what happens when you have backward christians running your education system, you get vile little bigots like this caller who tries to say that working off a debt is the same thing as slavery
same, i used to work on a farm in NC for 7 years, I also grew up there my whole life and I agree
It's ok, we understand. Yours is exactly the comment that I leave when someone from my part of the world calls in and talks nonsense. shhhh......it'll all be over very soon.
Same with rape, which the Bible also gets morally wrong too.
And incest.
@@jackwhitbread4583 👍
@@jackwhitbread4583and pedophilia
Who is this "Bible" ?
"who is this "bible""
You see: a few thousand years ago, some people wrote down how they thought the universe was created. This was generally considered a bad move.
I will never not love watching Forrest unleash his righteous anger on defenders of the indefensible.
‘This is Andrew from NC and he wants to defend biblical slavery’ is one HELLUVA starter
In all fairness the call screeners should inform anybody that wants to defend slavery in the Bible that there is a 100% chance that they are going to look sick, stupid, and horrible.
Andrew was no exception
In all fairness people should go throw some cold water on their faces in the bathroom, take a long look at themselves in the mirror, and ask themselves, "Am I going to look like a dimwitted bigoted hillbilly for defending some bronze age culture's slavery?" And at that point they should nod to themselves and assert, "Yes I am going to look like an utter uneducated, barbaric, and petty little man if I do this." And then they should find something better to do, like knitting, or perhaps pick up a book on science, or like and subscribe to this channel.
I mean, if they needed to be warned that defending biblical slavery would make them look bad... maybe they needed that public humiliation.
If you need to be told that you'll look like a stupid, sick, horrible person when your goal is to defend slavery you're already too far gone for the call screener to help
Forrest about to have his zen bubble popped.
The zen bubble is where he keeps his sharpest comebacks.
How happy am I to be have always been an atheist and never having the need to defend and justify slavery, genocide, violation of human rights just to make religion look good, that is disgusting
“Evidence is a f*&! b*%!, isn’t it?” That made me laugh.
Andrew came SEVERELY unprepared for this..
If by "came," you meant "came into the world," then you are right.
The mental disconnect in this one is strong. He cannot bring himself to contradict his own holy book.
“There’s an incentive for slave owners to treat them well!”
Sure man. An incentive. God offers a pizza party annually for slave owners who don’t kill any of their slaves. 💀
He misinterprets Deuteronomy 23. It only applied to foreign slaves seeking sanctuary. It doesn't pertain to slaves owned by Israelites.
@@peterkropotkin6224Yep. It'll be like if a fugitive from North Korea escapes into the US. We are not going to send them back to their country.
@@queuecee Dumbold Drumpf will send them back because they eat dogs.
Says "you have to use the bible collectively" while totally ignoring the fact that this collection contradicts itself constantly.
But that is not a bug, it's the purpose of the "Multi choice manual to genocide and incest"
... as he cherry picks
“And if a man beats his male or female slave with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.” (Exodus 21:20-21)
And always remember:
Who will believe a slave over a master?
You beat your slave to death, who is there to speak against you?
Slaves are DEFINED, as not having the same rights and status as their masters.
I don't think amnesty international was a thing back then.
@@vertigo4236 Moses and Jesus didn't think of starting something like Amnesty International
Good for you, John and Forrest for not putting up with his deflections and gaslighting attempts. You have a firmer foundation for what you know to be right than this person. Even with subjective morality, we can agree that it's wrong to subjugate other human beings and use them as property.
@@sammur1977 depends on how they treat the dog. Most people would see dogs as pets or treasured members of their family, more than simple property. We have an ethical duty to treat them gently. People are never property.
@@sammur1977 I'm not married no. and I'm nobody's property, I'm an autonomous moral agent. If one day, I find a partner she will not belong to me, but also an autonomous moral agent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Enjoy the rest of your day.
Not returning slaves to enemy countries doesn't equal slaves go free. It means 'I got you now. Don't worry... too much'.
Kinda reminds me of Tighten saying: "More like 'under new management.'"
Right, a discussion of how to treat slaves as the spoils of war, doesn't really speak to the wonderful treatment of the slaves.
It’s not humanitarianism, it’s asset denial. Just like the emancipation proclamation.
I was thinking that when goodless engineer read the verse.
@@Leith_Crowther What an awful and strange thing to say. People aren't assets.
Andrew thinks there are two kinds of slavery; good slavery and bad slavery. I am sure he would not have wanted to experience either one!
conservatives have a defunct sense of empathy, they are immune to the test of the "veil of ignorance" (that is the question "would you still approve of this rule if you could not up front say if it would apply to you or not?").
And again, again a time machine would be handy...
Andrew really didnt want to talk about slavery, for someone calling in to talk about slavery
He doesn’t want to talk about what he desperately wants to do.
There's no atrocity so heinous that if their god condones it they won't try and justify it. Slavery, infanticide, homophobia, etc.
Something tells me that if he were alive at that time, he would be participating in it without hesitation
@@tekbarriersomeone check his basement
@@sammur1977 Which exact verse states slavery is punishable by death?
@sammur1977 So when they butchered families except for the young virgin girls that they were allowed to take and keep, those were not slaves?
Or when you take these "Maidservants" for life- and give them and their children to your children as property?
@@sammur1977 --- Not only is slavery NOT condemned in the Bible, Leviticus 25:44-46 explains where and how to procure slaves. Owning people "as property and beating them" (Exodus 21:20,21) IS EXACTLY as we know it today. You're not allowed to pass your servants down to your children or beat them to within an inch of their lives today but the Israelites were with slaves/servants back then. Not only did Jesus fail to condemn the practice, but Paul told slaves to submit themselves to their masters, even the cruel ones.
But thanks for proving my point, "there's no atrocity so heinous that if their god condones it they won't try and justify it."
Forest won that round against Andrew. I can't believe anyone can think owning another human being is ok.
He’s a repeat caller. Everyone wins against Andrew
I mean, they both kicked his ass this way and that. It’s not much of an achievment on this caller.
If Forrest thinks slavery is bad, why did he own Andrew there?
@@AXKfUN9m 😂That got a laugh out of me.
@@AXKfUN9m👏
The only thing Andrew got right: "... I may not understand everything.." 39:40
This was one of the most amazing things I've ever heard in my life. I'm so glad you and others like you do what you do!!
Why must these people be in the position to HAVE to run away in the first place? THAT is the central argument, regardless of the 'type' of slavery.
i could see Forrest's whole mood change
Defending slavery can be known to phukc up a person's mood.
@@Jerrid_8675 his pronouns probably changed too
Yeah he seems to be manic like that
@@reaperj550 hilarious.. guessing your a Christian
Sorry John and Forrest, I think I might need to do more streams on this topic. Lol. Apologists clearly aren’t picking this up. Excellent work!!
Ive been watching this channel for a decade, if they haven't gotten ut by now they never will
@@nathanmckenzie904That's right. They will never get it because their 'truth' is more important than reality.
@Gus-i3d glad you put truth in ""cause whay they have isn't true
I think the one aspect that is not discussed enough is the commandment of manstealing, and how this has exceptions, whilst also allowing purchase slaves from foreign countries. If you don't kidnap them it's fine. All too often this is a pathetic attempt at apologetics.
There are commenters on this video insisting that people don't have a fair view of slavery in the bible. And their argument is that it's a way to disburse debt, so it's not comparable to American or "Muslim" slavery.🤦♂️
I don't understand how they can keep giving this argument.
I love how he says to the caller "You are better than god!" But the caller is paying so little attention that they dont even hear it.
Andy did not hear about 99% of that convo, Forest and GE asked him many questions very clearly, and on at least one he had to ask Forrest to re ask. Like seriously Andy? Please remove your fingers from your ears so you can hear, it will be ok.
Always seeing themselves as slavers, never as slaves. Very moral to imagine that they own others like property and can do anything they want with them since the slaves belong to them.
Yeah, that's sad. Those monsters will only understand the topic if they would make that experience first hand.
But that is not possible, because it would make us equal monsters.
Don't "hesitate". They actually do those really bad things in the millions. Just look at the crime-statistics. The part about femicides. Men act on a daily basis with pure contempt, consider their partners to be their property and commit terrible acts of violence when this is questioned.
So if you think we are much more advanced as a society than these shepherds... then you are deceiving yourself.
Have a good one:)
I think it was Lincoln who said that he never met anyone who defended slavery who in fact wanted to be a slave.
Christians always think that they are special in the eyes of their god.
Yes , how true . The Democrat Party is the political party of the old South and the KKK . The Republican Party was formed in 1856 to end slavery and Abe Lincoln was the first Republican President. The Abolitionist movement in Great Britain and America was started by Christians like William Wilberforce and John Newton
Yes , how true . The Democrat Party is the political party of the Old South and The KKK . The Republican party was formed to put an end to slavery and Abe Lincoln was the first Republican President . The Abolitionist Movement was started by Christians like William Wilberforce and John Newton
Caller just acknowledged other gods exist when talking about the first born sons.
Unwittingly said “my perfect god screwed up, and used slavery to fix his mistakes.”
Why didnt Jesus condemn slavery?
Because the Jesus in the bible, is a myth, probably made up of a collection of different people, and embellished with details. But also because the people in charge of the religion didn't *want* to give up their slaves.
Because he needed someone to wash his feet.
@@adamstrange7884 bah-dum tss
Not only did Jesus not comdemn slavery he commanded that slaves even obey the cruelest of masters.
Cos he was messing wid all the bread, fish and wine and shiz
“God” doesn’t give a hint “hey maybe in 100, 200 or even 2000 years from now it might be a good idea to get rid of slavery”.
Eventually, Abrahamic faith-heads are gonna have to accept the fact that their book endoses slavery, and much worse things.
Some do, just look at far right evangelicals
17:14 i love when they come off mute and you can tell theyve been talking the entire time 😂😂
I honestly do not understand why people like Andrew do this to themselves. It's like he wants to be humiliated. Is calling into the show some kind of kink among apologists?
It's part of the persecution kink. The Bible says that true Christians will be persecuted, so people like Andrew will call into these places to pick a fight so they can feel persecuted, and thus feel like a true Christian. Never mind that as the majority religion in the US, Christianity is the one doing the persecution.
Well they are not allowed to watch proper porn so possibly.
His arguments come from Temu
@@sedadavo1 😂😂
If you're making excuses for your god, it's not a god worth worshipping.
If you're trying to defend any kind of slavery, you're not a moral person.
After reading and interpreting the BIBLE on their own, Atheists and Christians never stop arguing, debating, and quarreling about GOD
with
Atheists
claiming that GOD doesn't exist
and
Christians claiming that GOD tortures human beings for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell
but
what really is the worth, value, and importance of Atheism and Christianity to GOD?
ANSWER -
Nothing,
Atheism and Christianity
are worthless and useless, no value whatsoever
to
GOD who KNOWS
that
his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
is
NOT for Atheists and Christians
but
ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King
and
the teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26
are also
NOT for Atheists and Christians
but
ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
who
are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@jaflenbond7854so you allowed someone else to intepretate the bible for you?
@@joshsheridan9511 What is the worth, value, and importance of GOD and the BIBLE to Atheists and Christians?
ANSWER -
Nothing,
all that were written in the Bible about GOD are worthless and useless, nothing but lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales
to
Atheists and Christians.
What is the worth, value, and importance of Atheism and Christianity to GOD?
ANSWER -
Nothing,
Atheism and Christianity
are worthless and useless, no value whatsoever
to
GOD who KNOWS
that
his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
is
NOT for Atheists and Christians
but
ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King
and
the teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26
are also
NOT for Atheists and Christians
but
ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
who
are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@joshsheridan9511
My brain just shuts off after reading the first sentence.
Even if I would want to read further, I can't do his paraphrasing, it messes with me.
Why do they spend this ungodly amount of time, spewing their non-sense, and not presenting it in a readable way?
Like church flyers in 20 different fonts and colors and sizes.
Maybe it is a filter. If you are willing to go through it, we can make you believe anything.
@@vertigo4236how Jeffan's mind works is beyond me.
And I doubt anyone trys reading any of his drivel after the first attempt.
Yo.... God wishes he was as good at this shit as Forrest. Holy shit dude. You are BRUTAL in aaaaallllllll the best ways.
Good Wednesday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤
Peace Love Empathy From Australia 💪🤠☝️
What a dynamic duo! This combination of hosts I think might be my new favorite. I hope to see them frequently.
This is the problem I see with a lot of Christians - they don’t read their Bible but think they know what’s in it because their priest/pastor told them so.
Agreed, my 90 year old very Christian aunt admittied she never read the bible in her entire life.
And she is a very intelligent person who was a CEO of a middle sized company.
My problem with the Christian in this video is that they read the text with a dishonest mindset.
Do you want atheists? Because reading the Bible is exactly how you get atheists.
I just like phrasing it as that meme.
Well the pastors know where their money comes from, " They have an incentive..."
Take the money out of religion and religion dies. Its just a different game of 3 card monty...
I guess I shouldn’t have expected much from someone who calls in wanting to defend slavery 😂
How is Forrest "borrowing" from Andrew's worldview when he doesn't defend slavery of any type and thinks God is immoral?
Such a weird way to defend a bad position.
It's a thought terminating cliche he learned from Frank Turek.
You know, now that you brought that up I would think every Atheist would say we do not want anything to do with Andys worldview. it's kinda horrific.
Huge point about the hypocrisy and dishonesty of this caller -- he defends slavery by saying that God making a rule against it would violate free will, but the Bible is filled with rules God makes about what is moral and what is immoral. Free will means people can choose to obey instructions or not, it doesn't mean there can't be instructions in the first place. And I guarantee that this caller would NEVER say the rules against murder, or theft, or gay sex, or working on Shabbos (or more likely in the caller's case working on Sunday because he tossed out the original day of rest and replaced it with a new one) are violations of free will.
And the caller is LYING when he says he's not for slavery -- he wouldn't spend the whole time justifying slavery if he were really opposed to it. He wouldn't try to say slavery was the slaves' own fault. But he's a terrible person so he'll never do that.
He did try to say that once by asking forest the question: what about the slaves selling themselves into slavery?
AND if their god has all the Omni's they claim, then there can be no free will.
If God knows everything about your life before you were born, then you are just an actor going though an unchangeable script.
The backflips that some theists are willing to go through in order to try to justify slavery in the bible is, honestly, one of the saddest things.
Back flip? More like a triple back corkscrew twist half back front gainer loopdy loop. But unfortunately their knees came apart on the dismount and got disqualified.
A slave is a slave, there is no difference!
American slavery was non different from slavery anywhere else, we just view it as worse because it's close enough to us to not be able to dismiss it and to see how awful it was.
My assumption without looking it up would actually be that slavery gets worse the more you go back in time just by nature of more primitive people having rougher lives and societies being more violent. But I agree that more recent examples of slavery feel more personal, more real, and therefore far scarier.
@@LaCeiba1924 Do you want to explain to me how slaves in that area could run back to their countries of origin or be liberated by people they had a heritage with......is somehow worse than being transported to a different continent thousands of miles across an ocean with no hopes of return, ever? And how somehow it is better when one culture has utter technological superiority and the infrastructure to make guns....is somehow a better living condition than slavery in a time and place where a horse or donkey could be stolen and a person could hide well enough to escape? More modern slavery just made it much easier to have larger populations of slaves. Being an ocean away from home makes a huge difference in outcomes and the enforcability of slavery. The truth is, the more modernized slavery is made to be, the more inescapable it becomes.
@@OceanusHeliosWe were stating what our **uneducated assumptions** would be about the topic - opinions that are inherently flawed because they aren’t based on research but on our own minimal background. So I’m not sure why you’re coming at me so strongly. If I wanted to have a detailed, nuanced discussion, I’d go read up on these subjects first because I don’t know anything about medieval or ancient methods of slavery.
I wouldn’t dare argue either side of the argument because I don’t know enough to do so. My base assumption is one thing, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking an official side on this topic at this time. I’d want to learn more first.
@@LaCeiba1924 Your assumption is wrong. In a number of past civilisations racism was not added to slavery. So freed slaves could be a part of society.
It was different, it's simple to understand.
American Slavery was about the color of their skin. They were considered inferior in their plenitude. There was no space for them, they had no rights. They had no space outside of Africa. The amount of slaves was a complete and disgusting another level. They were completely strutuctured to be nothing other then an object. There are similarilies, just because is slavery after all. But American Slavery had a lot of tiny details that made it different.
One of the worst fictional characters of all time, appears to go out of his way to get the chance to murder children.
“Slavery is fine as long as you don’t kidnap them.”
- Andrew
In the Antebellum United Statess, it was a crime to kidnap free black citizens in Northern free states**, even though it was perfectly legal to engage in slave trade between and within slave states in the South. Historically, there were both legal and illegal ways to conduct slave trade - as with any other practice. There were more commonalities between Israelite chattel slavery and American slavery than apologists know or are willing to admit.
** a famous case study of such as Solomon Northrup, who wrote of his experiences in his memoir "12 Years a slave; was made into an oscar-winning film
@@peterkropotkin6224 thanks for the info 👍
@@AvaEFF The more you know :)
@@peterkropotkin6224 I’m not 100% sure how your comment related to mine but I’m always up for history lessons.
@@AvaEFF It's more an offhand comment on Andrew's argument that Exodus 21:16 against mainstealing means the bible is against slavery, because it ignores how it relates to the broader institution. In the ancient world, there were legal and illegal ways to acquire slaves, and while kidnapping free citizens was broadly prohibited, chattel slavery was still practiced. The US had similar rules as well. I'm pointing out the parallels between illegal slave trade in the ancient world with that of the transatlantic slave trade and show why it's invalid and misunderstands the institution across time and history, and why the apologist's effort to try and distinguish both practices is flawed, even though ancient slavery is evil on its own merits without any comparison.
Essentially, the argument "biblical slavery was nothing like the Transatlantic slavery or Slavery in the US south" is not merely a strawman, but it's also simply not true. There are many commonalities. But even if there weren't, slavery is evil in itself.
Killer show guys! For you guy's not wanting to own another human being, you sure did own the caller!!!
When it goes this badly for the caller I believe it is pownd, powned? Not sure I'm too old apparently.
Best possible spokesperson for atheism.
Loving these two together!
Nice job Godless Engineer and Forrest!
The way Forrest closed out that call.. *chefs kiss*❤
Andrew obviously isn't prepared for this conversation. Noone can be and take his position.
And yet they keep doing this.
Yet, Christians do - _all the time_.
If slaves can just run away and not be reclaimed, then what is the damn point???
Also, of course it is forbitten to steal someones slaves, because there are his property, and to just make random people slaves.
We have rules by god, who and how to make others slaves.
Do people think, you could just make anyone in the US a slave? No, at that point you were born a slave.
"To Answer your question" *proceeds to not answer your question*
Forrest went from cute golden retriever to bulldog really fast 🤣🤣❤️❤️
Religious people will go to great lengths to defend their petty god.
@@jaflenbond7854 What do you think you achieve with your pathetic trolling? I mean except feeding the algorithm and help spread these videos among more people. Nobody read your rambling. 😀And look how weak, pathetic, incompetent, lazy loser you god is if he needs such troll spamming such BS. 😀You only prove you believe in nonsense.
Yes, that's so weird...all powerful Tri Omni being who is so stupid and petty. How do people not notice this?
I'm so glad I found you guys! Thank you fr what you do.
If God can do whatever he wants, then he can and does break his own commandments...
I can too. I can order people to do something, and then act otherwise
Bible states it's the absolute word of god and that god can't lie, but also states god is omnipotent. It's a Contradiction and because one of these claims can't be true do to the other it's a lie.
Irony at it's best.
But god is a “do as I say and not as I do” guy, just like any other despicable dictator.
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail
Shouldn't they be held to at least equal standards if not higher?
At which point there is no such thing as Objective morality, because morality at that point is subject to gods whims.
You gotta give it to these bible apologists how they move goal posts when they are confronted with their erroneous thinking
I struggled with the whole slavery issue in the Bible when I was a teen. I grew up in a conservative Baptist family/church, went to Awana Clubs (child indoctrination cult) and the whole nine yards (except for homeschool, thank goodness). The BS explanation I was given was: slavery was one of the things God accepted before Jesus, like how God accepted animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins before Jesus. I tried my best to make sense out of the senseless because I was terrified I'd go to the "Lake of Fire" if I lost my faith/belief. Religious indoctrination really messed with my head. I feel sad for this kid.
And the whole issue of God hardening people's hearts gave me nightmares after first learning that story when I was a kid (a lot of the stuff in the Bible gave me nightmares when I was a kid, all the kids being unalived especially). What if God hardened my heart like he did the Pharaoh's, and I did something murderously evil? That was almost as horrifying as God imposing everlasting/eternal punishment on everyone whose name isn't in the "Book of Life."
Slave trade knew it had no morality to stand on,
So it wrote it up that gods approved of it.
Like modern corporations making edits in legislation.
Looking forward to watching yet another attempt to pretend it either wasn't slavery or wasn't condoned by YHWH 🙄
Religion can seriously destroy someone’s humanity
Everyone's humanity. The bible has numerous instances where entire groups of people were dehumanized, so it was easier to justify their extermination.
American, biblical, etc.. ANY kind of slavery is WRONG..
It’s easy to defend something when it’s abstract, much harder when it’s actually put into practice. Unfortunately, religious people get to claim that things will be better, while living in a world that will make sure they never get to experience the negative consequences of what they want, in fairytale
I feel it's worth noting that the prohibition on returning escaped slaves isn't the same as freeing those slaves.
It could easily be interpreted as saying that if your slave wanders into israelite territory, well they're an israelite slave now.
This passage isn't necessarily moral.
If mental gymnastic was a sport I have no doubt this kid would make it to the Olympics
Na he is Pro level MGL. NC is going all the way this year, the Cup/Bowl is theirs.
Andrew hoped to show up atheists. The first born were the oldest. They were most likely to survive and given the greater amount of food (grain) which may have been infected with a mold causing illness or death. As an atheist I approve of the comment .
Ironically, because of that mouldy grain, humans have (evolved) about the highest tolerance to the mycotoxin of Aspergillus moulds in the animal kingdom. It must have killed A LOT of people to have that effect on such small number of generations.
this was one of the best ones
16:58 Christian apologetics 101: When all else fails, whip out the moral argument. That oughta do it!
I just like to think about how many people god killed and the plagues he brought forth, to get them OUT of slavery, but then says, hey maybe this isn't so bad when WE have the slaves... The entire spectacle of it all and to still promote it is insane. Great video guys!
Wilful ignorance is a helluva drug. No matter what they'll justify it because it doesn't matter what it says, it doesn't matter what is real, the only thing that matters is that they know the "truth" and nothing can be allowed to interfere with that known "truth" so they'll outright deny what the bible says if it interferes with it.
They have made their own reality with their own religious texts that mean something completely different than what the text they play pretend to follow says.
"The consequence of the epistemology of religion is the politics of tyranny."
-Leonard Peikoff-1986
Oh I didn’t know that the slaves from the Old Testament volunteered and weren’t taken as prizes of war and conquer lol
Imagine being so deluded by your belief system that you're trying to defend slavery.
Does Andrew even listen to himself? Just hearing all of those things should be enough to make you question your beliefs.
I swear, the mental gymnastics apologists have to go through in trying to justify their god's immorality is truly astonishing.
Andrew just allowing himself to be blind because he has other people explain the Bible to him from a young age. Indoctrination
I used to blindly accept what I was told, too. Now, I think for myself, and I know that these stories, are simple fairy tales, told for purposes other than to impart truth.
Thanks John for the book recommendation! I already bought it
Unbelievable that people can defend this stuff.
First off through god all things are possible. So write that one down.
And then claim someone else’s world view is unjustified
@@robertcarsten4050Dude, it’s already written down. So what?
@@robertcarsten4050 Not all things are possible. Think of how long there's been war in the Middle East. Think of all the sick and hungry. Think of how Jesus is still unable to come back to earth. And god hasn't given us the Grand Unified Theory in physics.
So it seems like there are a lot of things that are not possible through god. He can't even stop my bananas from getting brown if I don't eat them soon enough.
@@dwightfitch3120 it's an always sunny reference.
Incontrovertible proof that the Bible strips the mind of reason and morals. You couldn't get a better example.
LIES bring DISHONOR and ETERNAL DEATHS
The LIE and false claim that the GOD and Father of Jesus Christ doesn't exist
and
the LIES and false teachings and doctrines of the anti-Christs about
"hellfire", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
will
definitely bring nothing but dishonor, disgrace, shame and ETERNAL DEATHS
to
Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists.
TRUTHS bring HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH
The BIBLE is the source of the TRUTHS
that
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43
will
definitely bring honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
to
lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18
and
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26
is
the guarantee
that
lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!*
"He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9
"The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16
@@jaflenbond7854Are you aware that you're actively reinforcing atheist conviction that religion is nonsense?
@@thejabberwocky2819 REJECTION of ATHEISM, CHRISTIANITY, and RELIGIONS
bring
HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH
The teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43
is
offensive and unacceptable
to
Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of Religions
but
will definitely bring honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
to
lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
rejected Atheism, Christianity, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever
and
willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18
and
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26
is also
NOT for Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of Religions
but
ONLY for lowly, kind, considerate, and submissive persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
who
are all worthy and deserving of being RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can peacefully, happily, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as earthly subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
I gasped aloud when they said "it was not western society" at 26:00. What a surprise they turned out to be racist af 🙄
I'm glad these type of people call, so many people who are doubting about Christianity will quit faster.
The trolls in the comments section are useful that way too...
They call in and think they make a point but can't comprehend how wrong they are, but other people looking their comments can see it easily..
This guy is trying to lie his way out of this.
Forrest is a bright shinning star and a gift to this world , and to the teaching of science