I really adore how you lined up the visualized wave file with the strings, it looks great! Kinda like seeing guitar strings played in slow motion, all wibbly wobbly like.
Those aren't guitar strings m8, seeing as the instrument is an upright bass, those are bass strings, I don't mean to be "that guy" but it was really bothering me that you said guitar strings. Sorry lol
hi, lesbian here. so i just finished watching this movie and it's become one of my favorite horror movies at the moment. you mentioned how you wanted some lgbt insight on how he relationship was handled, and i think it was handled really well! the relationship was in this movie for a reason and wasn't there solely as something sexual to gawk at, even with the brief sex scene. this relationship made sense to the story in a way that couldn't be replaced by a straight relationship or changed into a close friendship. you felt love between these two characters before lizzie lost her hand and when they teamed up at the end, and i think making their relationship a romantic one made the story what it was.
I am so glad I listened to you guys. This is probably the first time I've ever paused an episode to go watch the movie first, and it was SO worth it. Also, speaking as a gay man who grew up very close with the lesbian community, I was delighted by the couple in this. They seemed sweet! They really seemed to love each other! The costume design was also pretty on point, and even the sex scene was pretty tame compared to the typical lesbian romance movie, not to mention a million other tiny things that felt very genuine and specific to the gay experience. They did a good job!
In retrospect, I think that when Charlotte says, "My mother finally passed away," it was a way for her to convince Anton and Paloma that she was glad to get away from her mother and go back to being with them as opposed to her actually being glad her mother had died. And the fact that she practices before calling, again in retrospect feels like a rehearsal to sound as convincing as possible (at first I had assumed she was just nervous and feared rejection).
I was so sad to see that this movie didn't get a high score on imdb. I loved this movie. I can see how some people wouldn't like it. But I'm sick of the "It's not realistic" conversation. Most movies aren't realistic. They're movies. Are ghost movies realistic? No, but people still like those. As long as the movie sets up a series of rules for the world that the movie takes place in and the rules are followed, then I'm happy. I loved this movie for what it was. It wasn't perfect but it had an interesting story and the gore was pretty good. I loved the message and the acting was great. By the way the fact that you said you usually read all of the comments is really encouraging. I usually don't comment on videos because I don't think anyone is going to read my comment. But since you said that you do, I figured that I would share my thoughts. You guys do a great job at what you do. Keep it up!
As a member of the LGBT community I totally agree with ur opinion of the relationship between the girls it was beautiful and empowering and one of the main reasons I watched the movie since there are so few good LGBT inclusive horror movie
i'm a lesbian and i love love the direction that the movie took with their relationship, i know i can't speak to everyone because of my experiences but i found it empowering for the most part!! i'm so tired of the predatory lesbian trope especially in horror movies so it was really refreshing to see such a wild and unexpected movie subvert it like that
Im apart of the lgbtq community and ive seen almost EVERY lesbian film in Netflix. For me personally, the relationship between these main characters and the characters in San Junipero ep of black mirror are the only positive/respectful representations in film. The chemistry is so good and doesnt seem forced. I didn't expect anything that happened in this film. I thought they would have a beef throughout the whole film Black Swan style so their relationship really surprised me in a positive way.
I agree, San Junipero is an absolutely excellent example of great representation of a sapphic relationship. I personally believe The Perfection did wonderful, though not as good as San Junipero. (I’m probably being biased because SJ came out first or smth) Netflix has been doing really well recently with the LGBT+ representation, hope they keep it up!
I loved this film though it was intense as hell and might have to watch it again if nothing else then to see the color theories play out! I also wanted to say as a queer woman, I didn't feel this was exploitative of lesbians for a few reasons. 1) There was so much more to their characters and relationship, they weren't just The Lesbians 2) the sex scene would have been present if it was a straight couple (my easy test) 3) the women were not portrayed as overly sexualized people 4) they were MAIN CHARACTERS and not jokes or throwaways. As to the ending, I didn't see it as "trauma making you better" but more that they could only achieve the perfection because they were FREE. That you could never achieve perfection if you were being forced, only when you were truly free and doing it out of love for the art that you can do it. Just a few thoughts, I love y'alls show so much!!!!
As a bisexual woman, I felt empowered by the central relationship, because it really subverted the (sadly) ingrained expectations I had in mind; that expectation of two women competing with each other for the attention or whatever, ya know. I was so afraid it was going to go down that road, but thankfully it didn't. I'm so done with the trope of pitting women against each other, especially if it is for the sake of a man. It was a cool little gem of a movie.
Ryen Moore Sure, but those two things are vastly different, since there’s too often an underline of heavy misogyny and slut-shaming involved when it’s two women against each other.
@@MonyXChan Can we all admit that films and TV really need to stop the "stalker guy" getting the girl. like for real! The amount of times I've seen a guy caught taking pictures of a girl without them knowing. Yet they end up banging in the end. I mean one of the biggest shows atm "Stranger Things" has this exact play with it. The Notebook has a man that wont take no for answer and threatens to kill himself if the girl doesn't go out with him. Age of Adeline the woman blanks the man every time or pushes him off (I know the feelings you get) but then finds her address and just turns up. Maybe I'm doing it wrong and i just need to follow her home, then climb a tree, watch her undress, then fall out the tree and just say something funny to blow it off. Then i will get the girl. (Thats a joke)
I think this film is very thought provoking and I definitely have to check it out, this podcast came in clutch while I was at work, I’ve been listening to all of the podcasts all week it keeps me busy at work, the personality test one was great, I’m a type 7 😂, thank you Chelsea and James 🤟🏻
At least from this lesbian's perspective, this relationship was awesome. Yeah it's not a healthy thing between healthy people, but I feel like that's just not a thing in this sort of over the top horror style. Having two female characters with distinct personalities sharing a deep bond like this is awesome. I loved this movie and these characters. It never felt exploitative to me, which is rare for lesbian anything in horror - as much as I adore the genre. :)
I thought Charlotte and Lizzie had the cutest love, and when there was the supposed betrayal I was like NO!! I BELIEVED YOU TWO!! But to find out in the end that it was all real made my heart warm❤ Also I didn't look up any thing about this movie except the trailer, and after watching the film immediately thought of the douchebag monster Olypmic coach, so it was nice at the end to get revenge at least in an imaginary sense.
As a bisexual lady here, in my opinion, I honestly love the fact that movies in general are now getting to the point to where LGBT relationships are casual. Like, there's so many films out there that are in a specific category about the fact that they *are* LGBT and that's *all* they're about. And that's fantastic, don't get me wrong, because I love me some representation and inclusiveness. But I also love, very much so, when I can sit down and watch a horror movie where the main protagonist is in a lesbian relationship with another lead and have the movie not *harp* on it. What I mean by that, is I love how casual it all is- the love aspect of this movie. From what I recall of the film, there's no shame spiraling around the two because of their sexuality- they just have fun with one another and don't question what they're doing, and there's no shocking revelations of "oh my, she likes women! bet we really diverted the audience's expectations with that one! ha! we're different!" I don't think this movie was exploitative pertaining to their sexuality towards each other, because romances like this are just the same when it's involving a heterosexual couple. I thought the love scene was perfectly okay and not making the fact that they were two woman too "porny" or sexual. With heterosexual couples, we see love scenes all the time in movies, and some are wayyyy more graphic than that even breached. Long explanation short, I really love that this is a horror movie, and it just so happens that the main lead is shown to be in a lesbian relationship with someone else. Their love in the beginning really brings depth to their characters, in my opinion and I'm glad the fact that they are LGBT isn't really even acknowledged in a sense, it just is. Anyways, love you guys! Awesome podcast once again!
As a gay guy it always makes me glad when I see a relationship in the media that just happens to be a gay one. It didn't feel forced or anything because Lizzie obviously was genuinely attracted to Charlotte from the beginning and that felt nice. I did wonder if Charlotte was genuine or not, and I suppose I'll have to watch the movie a second time, because to me it didn't exactly feel like it was.
My one issue with the mental illness flashbacks is that... I've been mentally ill! I was hospitalized and it was actually pretty great! it just bothers me that treatment for mental illness is consistently shown as scary or over the top in film and I worry that it scares people away from getting help when treatment is usually really nice and I especially think electroshock is very rare now.
Ha! at the moment in the podcast, in which Lucy bumps the mic (to go watch Netflix before the spoilers). The Perfection is a solid example of complicated, thought-provoking, full-of-visual hints entertainment. The audience is tricked into thinking the movie is going one way, only to go in a different direction. There is definitely some camp (the wife being stabbed in the back, whom Allison’s character said didn’t even feel it), but that’s fun too. I appreciated the love story as well, despite the extremes Allison’s character goes to show her love. They are two women, who survived abuse & brain washing, and find love (while also getting revenge) in the process.
My favorite thing about this movie was the fact that it makes the audience believe it's going to be a sub-genre of horror/thriller and then completely takes a left turn, to the point that when we get to the final twist, the actual sub-genre is entirely unexpected. Jealousy movie? Nope. Illness movie? Nope. Jealousy again? Still nope. Girl-against-girl vengeance? Exploitation? ...Maybe. Revenge? There it is.
This movie seriously took me by surprise, also one of the only movies in a long time where I have genuinely been shocked by the plot twists. And just have to hand it to Williams and Browning because they sold this movie for me, POWERHOUSES.
Considering what Chelsea said about how Charlotte was listening to her popular music while Anton listened to classical in the car. The end scene where there cello music is drowned out over the indie tune at the end I loved that sequence
Funnily enough, the hardest scene for me to watch in this was the bus scene. Whether it be the anxiety of having your bodily functions fail in a crowded area, being very sick in a place you've never been to and don't speak the language, or the inverse of that and trying to find help for a friend/relative whose suddenly sick and no one understands you/will help you. The rest of the movie was very good and intriguing, but this scene in particular struck those personal little fears that you don't really see represented (or even think much about yourself) all that much. And that's ignoring the actual-nightmare-I've-had fuel of seeing bugs crawling and burrowing in your skin
I thought it was cool how when it shows the scene where Anton is speaking to a young Charlotte after messing up, a couple of the lines he says about their philosophy Lizzie actually quotes at the beginning when talking to Charlotte. You kind of almost don't notice because it doesn't seem out of place when they are talking but I think that was a major reason Charlotte realized Lizzie was in too deep.
Watching Sleepaway Camp tonight cuz James and Chelsea told me to before watching the kill count. Should have watched it a loooong time ago but I guess I needed the little extra push🤷🏼♀️
The first one is a classic though kinda poor quality. The sequels, while both dumb, are quite entertaining. I laughed at the sequels so much. Enjoy the movie and this Friday's Kill Count!
This is a great take on this movie Chelsea. You really looked into it and I’m glad you picked up on things like those colors. My favorite part was when Charlotte whips out that cleaver out of nowhere. It’s so so abrupt and it makes you really think that Charlotte is deranged and mentally unstable. Then the whole movie flips that on its head. So good job and keep up the great work
Also as an addition can you maybe do a podcast review on either of the Conjuring films. I know you’ve talked about the first one, and said that you like it but I would love a really in depth review of those movies because they are some of my favorites.
In regards to the movie though: I adore having a movie that portrays a wlw couple without any one of them being shown as toxic or predatory. From the sounds of the storyline, production could have easily gone safe and make the lead straight. It's an interesting storyline that could have worked if the two women weren't LGBT+, so I find it amazing that they opted to give us that representation anyway. It's a storyline that ISN'T focused on the fact that they're both wlw, ISN'T heavily sexualized, and DOESN'T kill off The Gays™ for the sake of it like so many other pieces of media. All in all: I'm hyped and adoring any form of representation. :D Not everything has to be sunshine and rainbows for LGBT+ focused media, and it's pretty rad to see a horror movie focused on a wlw couple.
First off, that card using the Soundwave in the cello is awesome. Second off, this movie sounds very interesting. Gonna watch that later. Thanks for the recommendation.
I REALLY loved that it subverted genre expectations in such a fun way! Reminded me a little of The Visit in that way; the whole first half had me thinking that it was going in a viral/apocalyptic horror direction and suddenly turned into this amazing psychological cat-and-mouse thriller. It’s been such a long time since I was able to shut my analytical brain off and stop trying to guess where it’s going, instead just enjoying the ride.
Gotta say, these podcasts are perfect for RPG grind sessions. You two are always super entertaining to listen to. (If anyone's curious, I'm grinding in Persona 3 FES right now)
This reminds me of the original susperia a little. The cult like group and the control of the members as if they are just puppets. I love the women's ability to rise up. Sure abuse brought us this story but I see them as breaking out of it and becoming their own selves instead of puppets. I like that it's not just a one woman army but saying sometimes you need others to love and trust.
I won't watch this for personal history reasons but the visuals they describe do sound amazing and the over all story sounds really good with the twist. I kinda wish they didn't use the rape element just because that the only reason why I won't watch. Everything else makes me really want to watch it though
@@peggyg7052 the rape scenes aren't really rape scenes I mean they're suggested but there's nothing really ever shown so I think you'll be safe if you do decide to watch it
I love this movie! It was so weird and dark, but it kept just enough realism to make it somewhat relateable (whether directly or indirectly). Chelsea, I was feeling the exact same way. I was like, "they know we do not trust Allison after 'Get Out,'" but she actually talks about that in one of her interviews. Like everyone knew that when casting her, and she played into that. You guys should hear interview on the ForAllNerds (FAN) Show. Here is the link: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-perfection-review-featuring-allison-williams/id632843709?i=1000439221657. Also, I love you guys' podcast :)
Watched The Perfection 10 min into your video. I loved the movie. Thought-provoking, and Lizzy is definitely wearing a red white and blue wind breaker just like the gymnasts
I love the time and effort, amount of research and delivery of content you guys put forth in your podcasts! I never listen or watch podcasts but I took a chance to listen to one of yours and now I’m hooked! I love Chelsea’s detailed analysis and it’s clear that she sees beyond the boundaries. She has a strong attention to minute detail and symbolism in movies. And together you guys provide and deliver very thorough content! In short, I love your union and the work that you produce.
Omg! I just noticed that dead meat is now at 2 mil subs! I remember watching the very first kill count and loving it back when you guys only had a couple thousand subs! I have watched nearly every video since then and I am so happy that you guys are finally getting the recognition you deserve!
In hindsight, it definitely would have been better for Charlotte’s plan to have Lizzie cut off her left arm. Because then she could NEVER plan cello again. When playing strings like this, the left hand imo is more important because you need those fingers to play different notes. The right hand is in charge of bow movements but you can still use the bow if you have a prosthetic (or even cooler, a mechanical arm).
For the birthday party discussion - my birthday is right after Christmas, and had a party one year where two people showed up. Then had the opposite where I went to someone else's birthday party and I was the only person who showed up.
IconoclastXVII Boi my dad’s bday is on Christmas, so I know how that is and I’m sorry that that happened to you. Most often, his parents would get him one combined gift for both his birthday and Christmas! They would also count Christmas morning as his party, no friends allowed!
@@Blueklima9708 Yep, I also got the combined presents. Think that one party was the only one I ever had. Every other year my parents said "it's Christmas break, nobody will show up".
Hey James! I love your channel and I just got my 61 year old mom hooked on it too! She’s way too scared to watch the actual movies, but loves your funny commentary and likes that she gets to basically watch the movies and gain new appreciation and knowledge of the horror film genre and the pop culture references connected to it without having to pee her pants in fear. My 60 year old dad was glued to watching your videos as they played on my tv as he helped pack up my apartment, and he had never seen your videos before! So thanks for giving my parents (who are way too scared to see the actual movies on their own) a new, more positive perspective on horror movies! Now that mom is hooked, she’s been asking me if you have covered such n such film, and the first suggestion for a kill count she had is a great one: the Woman in Black! That movie scared the piss outta me when it came out, even though the storyline and acting is meh at best. I would love to see this on the kill count at some point! “Darkness Falls” is maybe another candidate, though I forget how many actual kills there are in that movie. Much love and thanks so much again! I’m really happy that I got to bond with my mom over horror movies by sharing this channel with her, and it’s all thanks to your talent!
I loved the Perfection. I felt it was a new take on the genre and I love the influences brought in from other countries. I feel netflix has been a great chance for new ideas and takes on horror that we wouldn't get to see otherwise!
Hey I just wanted to tell that I absolutely love this channel, my last few weeks of highschool before I graduate are coming up, and I just wanted to let you know that this channel got me through alot of stressful times in my school year and I’m hella grateful for the content you guys create. Idk If you’ll see this but Imma post it anyway
South Korean horror/thrillers are some of the best I've ever seen. Japanese as well. I never watch any of the movies that are talked about because I'm A Big Weenie, but going by your synopsis, this sounds like an amazing film. Beautiful to....imagine-watch? Thank you!!
Coming from a bi woman, it does feel nice to see more gay women being represented in the media. However, with that being said I do wish this movie took more of a romantic beginning rather than it being so heavily sexualized. I like the addition of the line stating that that was the first time she slept with anyone, regardless of gender. Overall I think it was a step in the right direction but I think there is still a long way to go for LGBT representation in films. I love you guys youre a big the reason I love analyzing film (more specifically horror movies) 💖💖💖
As a sapphic person, I love seeing representation like this in film. Fluffy, non-problematic and happy fictional queer couples are great and all, but we deserve some messy shit too. Especially in a horror movie, it's great to be represented by characters who are allowed to be incredibly flawed and weird. We've come a long way since Buffalo Bill lol
I have to say I am probably the weird one here that doesn't actually watch horror, but I am always interested in the plot lines. I have a tendency to remember scenes within movies I watch when abnormal clarity, so I would rather not see those types of scenes. However, what I drew from the discussion here would be strength inspite of not because of abuse. Something I myself can relate to in some ways. That being said it is with the caveat of not watching or intending to watch the film myself.
Lesbian's takes: (altho I haven't watched the movie firsthand cuz this would be too much for me, so this is all based on the podcast discussion) The stuff about the sex scenes had me kinda hesitant. Cuz like.. I get why it would seem like a good thing when lesbians get passionate, explicit sex scenes. But the issue is that, most of the time, that's *all* we get. Tons of media uses lesbians as like. Basically a fetish. A commodity. We're never allowed to have representation on a screen without that representation getting naked for the audience's enjoyment. On a similar note I think I would, overall, end up with a negative opinion on the movie's use of the Abusive/Jealous Lesbian trope. Because while it is subverted in the end, it's still the crux of the conflict for a large part of the movie. It relies on the existence of those prejudices in peoples' minds to serve the needs of the plot. This is also why I would be most likely to take umbrage with the fact that a man wrote it. It feels exploitative to me for a man to take a trope that contributes to the ongoing prejudice against lesbians in society and use it for an endgame twist in his story. Also, and this is very much just my personal feelings, and something that I'm well aware is not a cut and dry matter: I just don't think subverting tropes (specifically, harmful ones) in that way is a good way to go about it. I don't think someone with inherent prejudices is going to see the twist and go "Oh, maybe I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions," they're gonna see it and go "Oh, neat twist. I never would have seen that coming, because it goes against how I believe the world works." In my opinion, if you want to make a statement about a trope like that, you have to be explicit and overt if you want people other than people who already agree with you to even notice that the statement is there. But, that's just me. It's a divisive topic. ALL THAT SAID. I think it sounds like a good movie. Having a horror movie where the protagonists are a lesbian couple, and having them *win* in the end, is a special thing. Horror movies don't even treat straight relationships well a lot of the time, so given the specific genre, I think that's substantial. And on top of that it sounds like it's just A Good Movie. A well made, entertaining horror flick. As an exploration of cults and grooming specifically, I think the sexual assault stuff detracts from that angle. It sounds overpowering, like it takes a lot of the focus off the other horror inherent in grooming. Which is fine, sexual assault is horrifying all on its own. But like, specifically looking at it as an intersection of those two themes, I think it's a little messy. Plus you could probly examine like, the themes early on about suggestibility in people, and how that connects thematically to grooming, but then they tie it to drugging which, again, is such a prominent horror on its own that it can easily take the focus away from the themes. I could be wrong about that though, that's stuff that it's not really possible to talk about conclusively without seeing the movie firsthand. Good podcast episode. Made me think.
34:16 US comes to mind. That movie is full of weird plot holes if you look at it realistically. Like where did Red get all the jumpsuits, scissors and gloves? Why did literally nobody ever find the underground tunnels? Why was little Adelaide the only clone that found a way out of the tunnels? Stuff like that. I understand the questions and where they're coming from, but sometimes it's just more enjoyable to let it slide at times.
One more comment- I’m lesbian and I think that this relationship is very nicely done. I raved about the fact that they had a lesbian couple in this movie and they weren’t the sole focus of the movie at all. They’re very much so just accepted by the characters and that’s where I really applaud them. Written by a man or not, this is a great movie with good representation. It’s the kind of situation I want to see going forward in horror movies. Loved it.
I loved all the times in this movie where it looked like they were playing a cello, especially because I think they chose the cello over the violin or something because of the way you have to sit to play it (I could be just seeing things or I'm biased because I used to play). Like during the scene where Lizzie and Charlotte are about to sleep together, Lizzie is between her legs and the way the camera is set up it looks like Charlotte is playing a cello. There's another time where it happens but I cant remember it. I have to sit and watch it again to see if I can find all of those moments. They really thought this movie through so well with every little detail!
my sister's friends forced her to watch this movie and when she told me about what happens in the film I thought I'd hate it but hearing you guys talk about it makes me more open to it, Thanks guys ^^ this is def going on my to-watch list
Oh! Steven Webber's character says (when Charlotte and Lizzie meet), "I don't drink, but I feel giddy drunk." And he was the one who didn't get a drugged drink. So they kept it continuous!
Since you basically Guaranteed that you are gonna read this, hope you guys are doing good. Thanks for the podcast, just enough time to listen before work. :)
Just watched the film before listening to you guys talk about it so it wasn't spoiled! I think the subject of "oh it's so unrealistic the lengths they had to go to in order to make them realise" is pure pandering from people. In my mind, it was touching on how difficult it is, in abuse scenarios, to get the people to see the reality of the situation. Our brains try and block out the worst, and focus on the best and it's so difficult to flick that switch. I think it's just a exaggerated depiction of that. Great discussion as always, love these podcasts! Much love.
Logan Browning is on the Netflix series of Dear White People. Tessa Thompson played the original role in the movie that came out before the Netflix adaption.
I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. I really like how it let's you forget that it's a horror movie and allows you delve deep into the story without expecting a cheap scare. I feel like a lot of movie nowadays are always trying shoehorn in symbolism and imagery and ignoring the story at large. This let's the viewer really lose themself in the movie and actually enjoy it while having an underlying message and I really admire that.
I agreed with everything you said on this. I have watched this twice and had very few complaints about the movie. I loved it and have recommended it to friends.
One thing people gotta know is that electroshock therapy for depression and mania is a legitimately sound psychological method for treatment. It literally does no damage when done by professionals.
Saw you posted this and went and watched it immediately. I was worried it was going to be a Train to Busan type movie (great zombie flick btw) with the people getting sick but it went in so many directions. Fun film!
Watched the movie then discovered you guys did this podcast. Perfect timing! Such a unique movie, I’m recommending it to all my friends who are thriller/horror friends. I need to rewatch to pick up on some of those colour things and catch anything I missed in my first watch through. Overall, probably one of my new favourite movies.
I posted this as a reply to someone here in the comment section, but I do feel it's important to get it out there, so I'm posting it as its own comment as well: I find the focus on them being in a lesbian relationship interesting, since that's not what the film was putting the focus on. Didn't the film make a point to say that Theis and Geoffrey were also once victims of the same "ritual"? I feel like that was important in showing that while the particular events of this film centre around 2 women, the actual evil scheme isn't gender-specific. I feel like, with so many things, the audience is putting more focus on these things than the actual film, and I think that might steer away from the actual intent and/or message of the film (which, to be clear, I don't know, none of us really do). To me, it was a film with a revenge plot element that just so happened to centre around women. If Anton had gone "WHAT?! You two had sex?!" after Charlotte told him, then yeah, I would've thought it was focussing on their sexuality as well, and I was fully expecting them to go that route...but they didn't. It was a thing that was in the film, that's it. These women were strong characters, but their gender and sexual orientation had nothing to do with that. That in and of itself is refreshing, and I just wish that the people who so desperately want the world to see people as people and nothing more would take their own advice.
Thank you so much for the tip to watch it on youtube. I wasn't thinking about it and I now saw this awesome movie before the Kill Count also thank you for warning us about not looking up anything about The Perfection, imma watch it soon
Me and some friends started a Netflix watch party and I wanted to show them this so bad. But I was also really conflicted! I loved how the 2 got together and totally fucked up their abusers. But the film does have those scenes that I think some are my friends would be totally turned off from the movie. I’m so glad y’all share ur opinions bc I really like this movie and it really is so twisty and dark as I thought!
Why was I not notified about this video? I thought for some reason you guys weren't making a podcast this week, or it was coming out late. Glad to finally see this though so I can watch it.
I watched this immediately after you guys stressed so much about seeing it and I found it really good. The first part of the film I thought it was really cool how expectations were subverted from enemy rivals to lovers/friends and the twist was done so well I didn't care that it seemed like it went back to the trope of rival women. I think Anton's (Steven Weber) reaction to Elizabeth (Logan Browning) losing her hand was very telling to what an asshole he is. He reacts like he's mad he lost something valuable to him and not out of concern. The slight visual clue on Charlotte's (Allison Williams) mistake in the chapel is really smart since most people wouldn't be able to aurally pick up on it but it's also subtle enough to flow with the film. The fake setup of 'girlfriend contacts mysterious chinese illness from rural chinese countryside' was sort of cliche from my view as a chinese person but it's cool it's subverted.
I'm a string player and the thing that urked me the most about the movie was when Lizzie "lost her value" when she lost her hand. But the hand she lost was her bowing hand?? So she could just get a prosthetic limb that allows her to hold a bow and she'd be able to play?? Just as well?? In retrospect, maybe that clued me into the ending sequence....
This is the first movie I’ve watched in a while that had me thinking about it for days afterwards. Personally as a queer woman I found this representation very empowering. It made me feel upset with the first twist because, like you guys, I thought it was going to be a “crazy obsessive lesbian” or “lesbian as a means to an end” trope but I love how it was subverted. It was a roller coaster of emotions for me because of that but in the end I absolutely loved it.
I really adore how you lined up the visualized wave file with the strings, it looks great! Kinda like seeing guitar strings played in slow motion, all wibbly wobbly like.
Those aren't guitar strings m8, seeing as the instrument is an upright bass, those are bass strings, I don't mean to be "that guy" but it was really bothering me that you said guitar strings. Sorry lol
My B
Boo that’s a cello. It ain’t no bass lol.. Tho I do agree they made a great visual cover.
@@noahmitchell8268 nope, too big to be a Cello. Upright bass is basically the same thing tho, so...
Erfnak Jollyo it’s actually a cello
James: "I read all the comments."
Me: "You brave soul."
Ivan Barraza true
hi, lesbian here. so i just finished watching this movie and it's become one of my favorite horror movies at the moment. you mentioned how you wanted some lgbt insight on how he relationship was handled, and i think it was handled really well! the relationship was in this movie for a reason and wasn't there solely as something sexual to gawk at, even with the brief sex scene. this relationship made sense to the story in a way that couldn't be replaced by a straight relationship or changed into a close friendship. you felt love between these two characters before lizzie lost her hand and when they teamed up at the end, and i think making their relationship a romantic one made the story what it was.
I literally paused this video at the 5 minute mark to watch this movie now I’m to listen
Same here. Except that it took two weeks, apparently XD I had to watch it with a friend so today I finally did and that's why I'm here haha.
I did the same. This podcast has really changed the way I watch movies now.
I am so glad I listened to you guys. This is probably the first time I've ever paused an episode to go watch the movie first, and it was SO worth it.
Also, speaking as a gay man who grew up very close with the lesbian community, I was delighted by the couple in this. They seemed sweet! They really seemed to love each other! The costume design was also pretty on point, and even the sex scene was pretty tame compared to the typical lesbian romance movie, not to mention a million other tiny things that felt very genuine and specific to the gay experience. They did a good job!
Hu gay!😂
Same!!!
In retrospect, I think that when Charlotte says, "My mother finally passed away," it was a way for her to convince Anton and Paloma that she was glad to get away from her mother and go back to being with them as opposed to her actually being glad her mother had died. And the fact that she practices before calling, again in retrospect feels like a rehearsal to sound as convincing as possible (at first I had assumed she was just nervous and feared rejection).
You get a twist and you get a twist and YOU get a TWIST!!
I was so sad to see that this movie didn't get a high score on imdb. I loved this movie. I can see how some people wouldn't like it. But I'm sick of the "It's not realistic" conversation. Most movies aren't realistic. They're movies. Are ghost movies realistic? No, but people still like those. As long as the movie sets up a series of rules for the world that the movie takes place in and the rules are followed, then I'm happy. I loved this movie for what it was. It wasn't perfect but it had an interesting story and the gore was pretty good. I loved the message and the acting was great.
By the way the fact that you said you usually read all of the comments is really encouraging. I usually don't comment on videos because I don't think anyone is going to read my comment. But since you said that you do, I figured that I would share my thoughts. You guys do a great job at what you do. Keep it up!
Thank you!
I read the ending as they achieved perfection in spite of the abuse and injuries, not because of it.
I agree that's exactly how I read it!!
That’s what it read as to me aswell
Exactly. I thought they achieved The Perfection because of love, not abuse.
As a member of the LGBT community I totally agree with ur opinion of the relationship between the girls it was beautiful and empowering and one of the main reasons I watched the movie since there are so few good LGBT inclusive horror movie
I disagree one of them drugged and forced the other to chop her hand off that's not really good rep imo
Movies lately use lesbian sex scenes to buy an audience. Cheap marketing tactic
Suup it was drastic, but she thought it was the better alternative to her staying in the cult 🤷🏻♂️
i'm a lesbian and i love love the direction that the movie took with their relationship, i know i can't speak to everyone because of my experiences but i found it empowering for the most part!! i'm so tired of the predatory lesbian trope especially in horror movies so it was really refreshing to see such a wild and unexpected movie subvert it like that
lol even if its an audio only podcast i can still imagine james and chelsea speaking 😂 thanks for covering this film!
"I read all the comments."
Damn dude, sorry to hear that.
Haha
I LOVED The Perfection! More horror like this! (twisty mindscrew, stylishly disturbing, no jumpscares)
Im apart of the lgbtq community and ive seen almost EVERY lesbian film in Netflix. For me personally, the relationship between these main characters and the characters in San Junipero ep of black mirror are the only positive/respectful representations in film. The chemistry is so good and doesnt seem forced. I didn't expect anything that happened in this film. I thought they would have a beef throughout the whole film Black Swan style so their relationship really surprised me in a positive way.
I agree, San Junipero is an absolutely excellent example of great representation of a sapphic relationship. I personally believe The Perfection did wonderful, though not as good as San Junipero. (I’m probably being biased because SJ came out first or smth) Netflix has been doing really well recently with the LGBT+ representation, hope they keep it up!
I loved this film though it was intense as hell and might have to watch it again if nothing else then to see the color theories play out! I also wanted to say as a queer woman, I didn't feel this was exploitative of lesbians for a few reasons. 1) There was so much more to their characters and relationship, they weren't just The Lesbians 2) the sex scene would have been present if it was a straight couple (my easy test) 3) the women were not portrayed as overly sexualized people 4) they were MAIN CHARACTERS and not jokes or throwaways. As to the ending, I didn't see it as "trauma making you better" but more that they could only achieve the perfection because they were FREE. That you could never achieve perfection if you were being forced, only when you were truly free and doing it out of love for the art that you can do it. Just a few thoughts, I love y'alls show so much!!!!
As a bisexual woman, I felt empowered by the central relationship, because it really subverted the (sadly) ingrained expectations I had in mind; that expectation of two women competing with each other for the attention or whatever, ya know. I was so afraid it was going to go down that road, but thankfully it didn't.
I'm so done with the trope of pitting women against each other, especially if it is for the sake of a man.
It was a cool little gem of a movie.
Mony are you also sick of putting men against each other for the sake of a woman?
Ryen Moore Sure, but those two things are vastly different, since there’s too often an underline of heavy misogyny and slut-shaming involved when it’s two women against each other.
Mony that is a fair point thank you
@@MonyXChan Can we all admit that films and TV really need to stop the "stalker guy" getting the girl. like for real! The amount of times I've seen a guy caught taking pictures of a girl without them knowing. Yet they end up banging in the end. I mean one of the biggest shows atm "Stranger Things" has this exact play with it.
The Notebook has a man that wont take no for answer and threatens to kill himself if the girl doesn't go out with him.
Age of Adeline the woman blanks the man every time or pushes him off (I know the feelings you get) but then finds her address and just turns up.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong and i just need to follow her home, then climb a tree, watch her undress, then fall out the tree and just say something funny to blow it off.
Then i will get the girl. (Thats a joke)
@@Iteisenhauer sounds like you're already that repressed stalker guy😂
I think this film is very thought provoking and I definitely have to check it out, this podcast came in clutch while I was at work, I’ve been listening to all of the podcasts all week it keeps me busy at work, the personality test one was great, I’m a type 7 😂, thank you Chelsea and James 🤟🏻
Brycen Whittington I watched it before this podcast and I looooved it
At least from this lesbian's perspective, this relationship was awesome. Yeah it's not a healthy thing between healthy people, but I feel like that's just not a thing in this sort of over the top horror style. Having two female characters with distinct personalities sharing a deep bond like this is awesome. I loved this movie and these characters. It never felt exploitative to me, which is rare for lesbian anything in horror - as much as I adore the genre. :)
I thought Charlotte and Lizzie had the cutest love, and when there was the supposed betrayal I was like NO!! I BELIEVED YOU TWO!! But to find out in the end that it was all real made my heart warm❤ Also I didn't look up any thing about this movie except the trailer, and after watching the film immediately thought of the douchebag monster Olypmic coach, so it was nice at the end to get revenge at least in an imaginary sense.
As a bisexual lady here, in my opinion, I honestly love the fact that movies in general are now getting to the point to where LGBT relationships are casual. Like, there's so many films out there that are in a specific category about the fact that they *are* LGBT and that's *all* they're about. And that's fantastic, don't get me wrong, because I love me some representation and inclusiveness. But I also love, very much so, when I can sit down and watch a horror movie where the main protagonist is in a lesbian relationship with another lead and have the movie not *harp* on it. What I mean by that, is I love how casual it all is- the love aspect of this movie. From what I recall of the film, there's no shame spiraling around the two because of their sexuality- they just have fun with one another and don't question what they're doing, and there's no shocking revelations of "oh my, she likes women! bet we really diverted the audience's expectations with that one! ha! we're different!" I don't think this movie was exploitative pertaining to their sexuality towards each other, because romances like this are just the same when it's involving a heterosexual couple. I thought the love scene was perfectly okay and not making the fact that they were two woman too "porny" or sexual. With heterosexual couples, we see love scenes all the time in movies, and some are wayyyy more graphic than that even breached. Long explanation short, I really love that this is a horror movie, and it just so happens that the main lead is shown to be in a lesbian relationship with someone else. Their love in the beginning really brings depth to their characters, in my opinion and I'm glad the fact that they are LGBT isn't really even acknowledged in a sense, it just is.
Anyways, love you guys! Awesome podcast once again!
i love how the volume bar is on the violin, like its being strummed
cello but good point
As a gay guy it always makes me glad when I see a relationship in the media that just happens to be a gay one. It didn't feel forced or anything because Lizzie obviously was genuinely attracted to Charlotte from the beginning and that felt nice. I did wonder if Charlotte was genuine or not, and I suppose I'll have to watch the movie a second time, because to me it didn't exactly feel like it was.
Watch the are you afraid of the dark episode with zebo the clown. The kid Josh says "then I'm dead meat"
That episode scared me as a kid
The ghastly grinner haunted my dreams when I was 8
My one issue with the mental illness flashbacks is that... I've been mentally ill! I was hospitalized and it was actually pretty great! it just bothers me that treatment for mental illness is consistently shown as scary or over the top in film and I worry that it scares people away from getting help when treatment is usually really nice and I especially think electroshock is very rare now.
So glad you guys talked about this film. None of my friends are super into horror so I never get to hear people's opinions of films like this
I wonder how Gordon Ramsay feels about *dead* meat.
*THEY ARE FUCKING RAW!!!!*
@@justaneditygangstar play tl
are you implying that most of the time hes cooking with ALIVE meat??? hello???? h
Ha! at the moment in the podcast, in which Lucy bumps the mic (to go watch Netflix before the spoilers).
The Perfection is a solid example of complicated, thought-provoking, full-of-visual hints entertainment. The audience is tricked into thinking the movie is going one way, only to go in a different direction. There is definitely some camp (the wife being stabbed in the back, whom Allison’s character said didn’t even feel it), but that’s fun too.
I appreciated the love story as well, despite the extremes Allison’s character goes to show her love. They are two women, who survived abuse & brain washing, and find love (while also getting revenge) in the process.
My favorite thing about this movie was the fact that it makes the audience believe it's going to be a sub-genre of horror/thriller and then completely takes a left turn, to the point that when we get to the final twist, the actual sub-genre is entirely unexpected. Jealousy movie? Nope. Illness movie? Nope. Jealousy again? Still nope. Girl-against-girl vengeance? Exploitation? ...Maybe. Revenge? There it is.
I paused the podcast and quickly went on Netflix and watched this and I feel like you guys have discussed this movie perfectly and love you two.
This movie seriously took me by surprise, also one of the only movies in a long time where I have genuinely been shocked by the plot twists. And just have to hand it to Williams and Browning because they sold this movie for me, POWERHOUSES.
Considering what Chelsea said about how Charlotte was listening to her popular music while Anton listened to classical in the car. The end scene where there cello music is drowned out over the indie tune at the end I loved that sequence
That intro is perfection!
Funnily enough, the hardest scene for me to watch in this was the bus scene. Whether it be the anxiety of having your bodily functions fail in a crowded area, being very sick in a place you've never been to and don't speak the language, or the inverse of that and trying to find help for a friend/relative whose suddenly sick and no one understands you/will help you. The rest of the movie was very good and intriguing, but this scene in particular struck those personal little fears that you don't really see represented (or even think much about yourself) all that much.
And that's ignoring the actual-nightmare-I've-had fuel of seeing bugs crawling and burrowing in your skin
Kona Koro the bugs were disturbing
I thought it was cool how when it shows the scene where Anton is speaking to a young Charlotte after messing up, a couple of the lines he says about their philosophy Lizzie actually quotes at the beginning when talking to Charlotte. You kind of almost don't notice because it doesn't seem out of place when they are talking but I think that was a major reason Charlotte realized Lizzie was in too deep.
Watching Sleepaway Camp tonight cuz James and Chelsea told me to before watching the kill count. Should have watched it a loooong time ago but I guess I needed the little extra push🤷🏼♀️
The first one is a classic though kinda poor quality. The sequels, while both dumb, are quite entertaining. I laughed at the sequels so much. Enjoy the movie and this Friday's Kill Count!
*WHEN YOUR FRIENDS ARE BOOKS*
This is a great take on this movie Chelsea. You really looked into it and I’m glad you picked up on things like those colors. My favorite part was when Charlotte whips out that cleaver out of nowhere. It’s so so abrupt and it makes you really think that Charlotte is deranged and mentally unstable. Then the whole movie flips that on its head. So good job and keep up the great work
Also as an addition can you maybe do a podcast review on either of the Conjuring films. I know you’ve talked about the first one, and said that you like it but I would love a really in depth review of those movies because they are some of my favorites.
In regards to the movie though: I adore having a movie that portrays a wlw couple without any one of them being shown as toxic or predatory. From the sounds of the storyline, production could have easily gone safe and make the lead straight. It's an interesting storyline that could have worked if the two women weren't LGBT+, so I find it amazing that they opted to give us that representation anyway. It's a storyline that ISN'T focused on the fact that they're both wlw, ISN'T heavily sexualized, and DOESN'T kill off The Gays™ for the sake of it like so many other pieces of media.
All in all: I'm hyped and adoring any form of representation. :D Not everything has to be sunshine and rainbows for LGBT+ focused media, and it's pretty rad to see a horror movie focused on a wlw couple.
just finished watching the movie before listening to the podcast, it was amazing. that ending had me SHOOK
First off, that card using the Soundwave in the cello is awesome. Second off, this movie sounds very interesting. Gonna watch that later. Thanks for the recommendation.
I REALLY loved that it subverted genre expectations in such a fun way! Reminded me a little of The Visit in that way; the whole first half had me thinking that it was going in a viral/apocalyptic horror direction and suddenly turned into this amazing psychological cat-and-mouse thriller. It’s been such a long time since I was able to shut my analytical brain off and stop trying to guess where it’s going, instead just enjoying the ride.
Gotta say, these podcasts are perfect for RPG grind sessions. You two are always super entertaining to listen to.
(If anyone's curious, I'm grinding in Persona 3 FES right now)
And still grinding strong, 5 years later!
This reminds me of the original susperia a little.
The cult like group and the control of the members as if they are just puppets.
I love the women's ability to rise up. Sure abuse brought us this story but I see them as breaking out of it and becoming their own selves instead of puppets.
I like that it's not just a one woman army but saying sometimes you need others to love and trust.
I won't watch this for personal history reasons but the visuals they describe do sound amazing and the over all story sounds really good with the twist. I kinda wish they didn't use the rape element just because that the only reason why I won't watch. Everything else makes me really want to watch it though
@@peggyg7052 the rape scenes aren't really rape scenes I mean they're suggested but there's nothing really ever shown so I think you'll be safe if you do decide to watch it
I love this movie! It was so weird and dark, but it kept just enough realism to make it somewhat relateable (whether directly or indirectly). Chelsea, I was feeling the exact same way. I was like, "they know we do not trust Allison after 'Get Out,'" but she actually talks about that in one of her interviews. Like everyone knew that when casting her, and she played into that. You guys should hear interview on the ForAllNerds (FAN) Show. Here is the link: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-perfection-review-featuring-allison-williams/id632843709?i=1000439221657.
Also, I love you guys' podcast :)
okay I haven't seen this movie but that looks like a cello in the thumbnail so...brb I'm going to go watch it
Love listening to these Podcasts while I work, Almost gone through the whole year's worth in a couple of months.
Watched The Perfection 10 min into your video. I loved the movie. Thought-provoking, and Lizzy is definitely wearing a red white and blue wind breaker just like the gymnasts
I love the time and effort, amount of research and delivery of content you guys put forth in your podcasts! I never listen or watch podcasts but I took a chance to listen to one of yours and now I’m hooked! I love Chelsea’s detailed analysis and it’s clear that she sees beyond the boundaries. She has a strong attention to minute detail and symbolism in movies. And together you guys provide and deliver very thorough content! In short, I love your union and the work that you produce.
THE SOUND ON THE CELLO CHELSEA THAT IS SO AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!
I absolutely LOVED The Perfection and I went into it knowing nothing.
I legit just saw this film today and seeing this at the end of my day made my night perfect ❤️
im really happy i actually went and watched this movie before the pod. so happy.
I watched the movie to watch your review and I’m glad I did. I really enjoyed it! Thank you 🙏🏻 😊
Awwww yeah perfect time to drop, i needed something to listen to at work, Thanks Dead Meat
How you've wrote this comment 5 hours ago?
@@Gurke-rf8xe patron
@@lilDraven oh yeah😁, thanks!
@@Gurke-rf8xe aliens?
Omg! I just noticed that dead meat is now at 2 mil subs! I remember watching the very first kill count and loving it back when you guys only had a couple thousand subs! I have watched nearly every video since then and I am so happy that you guys are finally getting the recognition you deserve!
In hindsight, it definitely would have been better for Charlotte’s plan to have Lizzie cut off her left arm. Because then she could NEVER plan cello again. When playing strings like this, the left hand imo is more important because you need those fingers to play different notes. The right hand is in charge of bow movements but you can still use the bow if you have a prosthetic (or even cooler, a mechanical arm).
There are actually videos/photos of people who have prosthetics/cool modified bows so they can play despite amputations!
Avery Klima Nice! I’ll have to check it out
For the birthday party discussion - my birthday is right after Christmas, and had a party one year where two people showed up. Then had the opposite where I went to someone else's birthday party and I was the only person who showed up.
IconoclastXVII
Boi my dad’s bday is on Christmas, so I know how that is and I’m sorry that that happened to you. Most often, his parents would get him one combined gift for both his birthday and Christmas! They would also count Christmas morning as his party, no friends allowed!
@@Blueklima9708 Yep, I also got the combined presents. Think that one party was the only one I ever had. Every other year my parents said "it's Christmas break, nobody will show up".
Hey James! I love your channel and I just got my 61 year old mom hooked on it too! She’s way too scared to watch the actual movies, but loves your funny commentary and likes that she gets to basically watch the movies and gain new appreciation and knowledge of the horror film genre and the pop culture references connected to it without having to pee her pants in fear. My 60 year old dad was glued to watching your videos as they played on my tv as he helped pack up my apartment, and he had never seen your videos before! So thanks for giving my parents (who are way too scared to see the actual movies on their own) a new, more positive perspective on horror movies!
Now that mom is hooked, she’s been asking me if you have covered such n such film, and the first suggestion for a kill count she had is a great one: the Woman in Black! That movie scared the piss outta me when it came out, even though the storyline and acting is meh at best. I would love to see this on the kill count at some point! “Darkness Falls” is maybe another candidate, though I forget how many actual kills there are in that movie.
Much love and thanks so much again! I’m really happy that I got to bond with my mom over horror movies by sharing this channel with her, and it’s all thanks to your talent!
I was definitely on the fence about this movie, but after listening to this I’ve been persuaded to say that I actually kinda love this movie
I loved the Perfection. I felt it was a new take on the genre and I love the influences brought in from other countries. I feel netflix has been a great chance for new ideas and takes on horror that we wouldn't get to see otherwise!
Hey I just wanted to tell that I absolutely love this channel, my last few weeks of highschool before I graduate are coming up, and I just wanted to let you know that this channel got me through alot of stressful times in my school year and I’m hella grateful for the content you guys create. Idk If you’ll see this but Imma post it anyway
someone: So Dead Meat, what do you do for a job?
Dead Meat: *Oh, I watch horror movies and see who dies for a living*
someone: backs away slowly
Omg hahahahhahahahahaha
South Korean horror/thrillers are some of the best I've ever seen. Japanese as well.
I never watch any of the movies that are talked about because I'm A Big Weenie, but going by your synopsis, this sounds like an amazing film. Beautiful to....imagine-watch? Thank you!!
Coming from a bi woman, it does feel nice to see more gay women being represented in the media. However, with that being said I do wish this movie took more of a romantic beginning rather than it being so heavily sexualized. I like the addition of the line stating that that was the first time she slept with anyone, regardless of gender. Overall I think it was a step in the right direction but I think there is still a long way to go for LGBT representation in films. I love you guys youre a big the reason I love analyzing film (more specifically horror movies) 💖💖💖
As a sapphic person, I love seeing representation like this in film. Fluffy, non-problematic and happy fictional queer couples are great and all, but we deserve some messy shit too. Especially in a horror movie, it's great to be represented by characters who are allowed to be incredibly flawed and weird. We've come a long way since Buffalo Bill lol
I have to say I am probably the weird one here that doesn't actually watch horror, but I am always interested in the plot lines. I have a tendency to remember scenes within movies I watch when abnormal clarity, so I would rather not see those types of scenes. However, what I drew from the discussion here would be strength inspite of not because of abuse. Something I myself can relate to in some ways. That being said it is with the caveat of not watching or intending to watch the film myself.
Lesbian's takes: (altho I haven't watched the movie firsthand cuz this would be too much for me, so this is all based on the podcast discussion)
The stuff about the sex scenes had me kinda hesitant. Cuz like.. I get why it would seem like a good thing when lesbians get passionate, explicit sex scenes. But the issue is that, most of the time, that's *all* we get. Tons of media uses lesbians as like. Basically a fetish. A commodity. We're never allowed to have representation on a screen without that representation getting naked for the audience's enjoyment.
On a similar note I think I would, overall, end up with a negative opinion on the movie's use of the Abusive/Jealous Lesbian trope. Because while it is subverted in the end, it's still the crux of the conflict for a large part of the movie. It relies on the existence of those prejudices in peoples' minds to serve the needs of the plot. This is also why I would be most likely to take umbrage with the fact that a man wrote it. It feels exploitative to me for a man to take a trope that contributes to the ongoing prejudice against lesbians in society and use it for an endgame twist in his story.
Also, and this is very much just my personal feelings, and something that I'm well aware is not a cut and dry matter: I just don't think subverting tropes (specifically, harmful ones) in that way is a good way to go about it. I don't think someone with inherent prejudices is going to see the twist and go "Oh, maybe I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions," they're gonna see it and go "Oh, neat twist. I never would have seen that coming, because it goes against how I believe the world works." In my opinion, if you want to make a statement about a trope like that, you have to be explicit and overt if you want people other than people who already agree with you to even notice that the statement is there. But, that's just me. It's a divisive topic.
ALL THAT SAID. I think it sounds like a good movie. Having a horror movie where the protagonists are a lesbian couple, and having them *win* in the end, is a special thing. Horror movies don't even treat straight relationships well a lot of the time, so given the specific genre, I think that's substantial. And on top of that it sounds like it's just A Good Movie. A well made, entertaining horror flick.
As an exploration of cults and grooming specifically, I think the sexual assault stuff detracts from that angle. It sounds overpowering, like it takes a lot of the focus off the other horror inherent in grooming. Which is fine, sexual assault is horrifying all on its own. But like, specifically looking at it as an intersection of those two themes, I think it's a little messy. Plus you could probly examine like, the themes early on about suggestibility in people, and how that connects thematically to grooming, but then they tie it to drugging which, again, is such a prominent horror on its own that it can easily take the focus away from the themes. I could be wrong about that though, that's stuff that it's not really possible to talk about conclusively without seeing the movie firsthand.
Good podcast episode. Made me think.
Great comment! Made me think as well!
34:16 US comes to mind. That movie is full of weird plot holes if you look at it realistically. Like where did Red get all the jumpsuits, scissors and gloves? Why did literally nobody ever find the underground tunnels? Why was little Adelaide the only clone that found a way out of the tunnels? Stuff like that.
I understand the questions and where they're coming from, but sometimes it's just more enjoyable to let it slide at times.
The couple in this movie was everything. Omg i loved watching them. 😅 so glad i stopped in the middle and went to watch first. Did not disappoint.
One more comment- I’m lesbian and I think that this relationship is very nicely done. I raved about the fact that they had a lesbian couple in this movie and they weren’t the sole focus of the movie at all. They’re very much so just accepted by the characters and that’s where I really applaud them. Written by a man or not, this is a great movie with good representation. It’s the kind of situation I want to see going forward in horror movies. Loved it.
You and Chelsea are in a Friday of the 13th game they can get on Android you're on the trip to New York level 11
That's cool im going to install the game.
I'm pretty sure they know already
Whoa!! Thats awesome!!
I loved all the times in this movie where it looked like they were playing a cello, especially because I think they chose the cello over the violin or something because of the way you have to sit to play it (I could be just seeing things or I'm biased because I used to play). Like during the scene where Lizzie and Charlotte are about to sleep together, Lizzie is between her legs and the way the camera is set up it looks like Charlotte is playing a cello. There's another time where it happens but I cant remember it. I have to sit and watch it again to see if I can find all of those moments. They really thought this movie through so well with every little detail!
my sister's friends forced her to watch this movie and when she told me about what happens in the film I thought I'd hate it but hearing you guys talk about it makes me more open to it, Thanks guys ^^ this is def going on my to-watch list
I feel you Chelsea. Even in my twenties, I ain't about to have a birthday party, except with maybe one or two close family members. Your awesome!🙋
Oh! Steven Webber's character says (when Charlotte and Lizzie meet), "I don't drink, but I feel giddy drunk." And he was the one who didn't get a drugged drink. So they kept it continuous!
Since you basically Guaranteed that you are gonna read this, hope you guys are doing good. Thanks for the podcast, just enough time to listen before work. :)
watched this movie the other day and actually enjoyed the satisfyingly gruesome ending, my mans deserved it
Just watched the film before listening to you guys talk about it so it wasn't spoiled! I think the subject of "oh it's so unrealistic the lengths they had to go to in order to make them realise" is pure pandering from people. In my mind, it was touching on how difficult it is, in abuse scenarios, to get the people to see the reality of the situation. Our brains try and block out the worst, and focus on the best and it's so difficult to flick that switch. I think it's just a exaggerated depiction of that. Great discussion as always, love these podcasts! Much love.
Logan Browning is on the Netflix series of Dear White People. Tessa Thompson played the original role in the movie that came out before the Netflix adaption.
Allison Williams is also in The Series Of Unfortunate Events. Her name is Kit.
I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. I really like how it let's you forget that it's a horror movie and allows you delve deep into the story without expecting a cheap scare. I feel like a lot of movie nowadays are always trying shoehorn in symbolism and imagery and ignoring the story at large. This let's the viewer really lose themself in the movie and actually enjoy it while having an underlying message and I really admire that.
I agreed with everything you said on this. I have watched this twice and had very few complaints about the movie. I loved it and have recommended it to friends.
One thing people gotta know is that electroshock therapy for depression and mania is a legitimately sound psychological method for treatment. It literally does no damage when done by professionals.
Saw you posted this and went and watched it immediately. I was worried it was going to be a Train to Busan type movie (great zombie flick btw) with the people getting sick but it went in so many directions. Fun film!
Watched the movie then discovered you guys did this podcast. Perfect timing! Such a unique movie, I’m recommending it to all my friends who are thriller/horror friends. I need to rewatch to pick up on some of those colour things and catch anything I missed in my first watch through. Overall, probably one of my new favourite movies.
One of the first times I was convinced to watch the movie before listening to y’all a podcast. So happy I decided to do that 👍🏻
I posted this as a reply to someone here in the comment section, but I do feel it's important to get it out there, so I'm posting it as its own comment as well:
I find the focus on them being in a lesbian relationship interesting, since that's not what the film was putting the focus on. Didn't the film make a point to say that Theis and Geoffrey were also once victims of the same "ritual"? I feel like that was important in showing that while the particular events of this film centre around 2 women, the actual evil scheme isn't gender-specific. I feel like, with so many things, the audience is putting more focus on these things than the actual film, and I think that might steer away from the actual intent and/or message of the film (which, to be clear, I don't know, none of us really do). To me, it was a film with a revenge plot element that just so happened to centre around women. If Anton had gone "WHAT?! You two had sex?!" after Charlotte told him, then yeah, I would've thought it was focussing on their sexuality as well, and I was fully expecting them to go that route...but they didn't. It was a thing that was in the film, that's it.
These women were strong characters, but their gender and sexual orientation had nothing to do with that. That in and of itself is refreshing, and I just wish that the people who so desperately want the world to see people as people and nothing more would take their own advice.
Thank you so much for the tip to watch it on youtube. I wasn't thinking about it and I now saw this awesome movie before the Kill Count
also thank you for warning us about not looking up anything about The Perfection, imma watch it soon
I enjoyed The Perfection more than I thought I would and listening to ya'll talk about it made it clearer. I'm gonna have to watch it again!
I watched this after reading Chelsea's tweet to watch before the podcast and I'm so glad I did I really enjoyed the movie
The similarities between the Nassar case and this film are really similar and I hadn’t considered it before listening to this!
So are you all done with drunk Disney?(and just practical folks as a whole)
Me and some friends started a Netflix watch party and I wanted to show them this so bad. But I was also really conflicted! I loved how the 2 got together and totally fucked up their abusers. But the film does have those scenes that I think some are my friends would be totally turned off from the movie. I’m so glad y’all share ur opinions bc I really like this movie and it really is so twisty and dark as I thought!
I love your podcasts I don't mind if it's just audio you should do more of them!
Why was I not notified about this video? I thought for some reason you guys weren't making a podcast this week, or it was coming out late. Glad to finally see this though so I can watch it.
I LOVE the edit for the video, how the audio thing is a string on the cello 👌🏼
I watched this immediately after you guys stressed so much about seeing it and I found it really good. The first part of the film I thought it was really cool how expectations were subverted from enemy rivals to lovers/friends and the twist was done so well I didn't care that it seemed like it went back to the trope of rival women. I think Anton's (Steven Weber) reaction to Elizabeth (Logan Browning) losing her hand was very telling to what an asshole he is. He reacts like he's mad he lost something valuable to him and not out of concern. The slight visual clue on Charlotte's (Allison Williams) mistake in the chapel is really smart since most people wouldn't be able to aurally pick up on it but it's also subtle enough to flow with the film. The fake setup of 'girlfriend contacts mysterious chinese illness from rural chinese countryside' was sort of cliche from my view as a chinese person but it's cool it's subverted.
I'm a string player and the thing that urked me the most about the movie was when Lizzie "lost her value" when she lost her hand. But the hand she lost was her bowing hand?? So she could just get a prosthetic limb that allows her to hold a bow and she'd be able to play?? Just as well?? In retrospect, maybe that clued me into the ending sequence....
This is the first movie I’ve watched in a while that had me thinking about it for days afterwards.
Personally as a queer woman I found this representation very empowering. It made me feel upset with the first twist because, like you guys, I thought it was going to be a “crazy obsessive lesbian” or “lesbian as a means to an end” trope but I love how it was subverted. It was a roller coaster of emotions for me because of that but in the end I absolutely loved it.