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I do agree for the most part on your take on touring bikes. At 74 I have a limit of the weight a bike can be and be comfortable with it. Right now I ride a Kawasaki Versys 1000. I agree with you comment on leg position, I like the extra room you get from the taller saddle. In truth even at only 575 lbs. I now struggle wit this weight at my age. So this is my cure for me... a Triumph sport 660. So, Makes sense to me...
The 1200RT is the only bike I got in a crash on. Always rode sport bikes. Got an RT for work commutes (in San Diego). Someone clipped my side case (that bike has a fat ass) heavy traffic while splitting lanes, took me out, bike totaled. I flew thru the windscreen, backflipped off the concrete and landed on my feet 🥷. Never rode a touring bike again… also never had another crash.
Excellent review! Please do a review a R1250RT, if you can. I love how thorough you are and I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions.
After owning both touring and adventure bikes, I prefer touring bikes. For me they've been more comfy, I tend to like the luggage better, and maybe 25% of my riding is with a passenger. For me the wind protection has also been better, which makes a difference when I'm riding over an hour to work on a 40 degree morning. While not always the case, the added weight can make for a nicer long freeway ride.
Me too, I went from bikes like the MG Quota and R100GS (about 25 years ago) to touring bikes like a BMW R1100RT and later The mighty Goldwing. I always laughed at friends who rode one until I rode one myself. That was around 25 years ago , first a GL1100 sidecar, then a solo GL1800, then 10 years a GL1500 EML trike and the last 6 years or-so a GL1800 EZS reversed trike)
How refreshing to listen to someone speaking openly / honestly rather than presenting a biased obligated twist, often because the bike has been loaned out for promotion. First let me introduce myself: I initially biked for three years off road, but the last fifty five years have been exclusively spent highway motoring as such is now my only biking interest. I live in the U.K. but am intimate with U.S.A. motoring (hire cars only) over many years. My current largest bike is a Honda Valkyrie Interstate. I'll arguably over-simplify matters what for me are the major issues and speak equally honestly as BRM. Apreciating that readers' attention spans are mainly short. In the U.S.A. the weather is good, the roads are long and straight, and overall in very good condition. Most bikers like big bikes and Harleys are by far the most popular. Conversely, in the U.K. the weather is abysmal (almost endless rain), and apart from motorways the roads are a mish mash of minor roads, with never ending sharp turns, and often ill maintained. My own county of Devon arguably being the worst. Large bikes are a rareity and I'd struggle to name the most popular manufacturer. You'll find examples of most everything here. Apart from believing in politicians, most folk have common sense and U.K. bikers are no exception. There is a solid reason why most bikes are much smaller here. Nearly all of our bikers are 'fine weather bikers,' which (even if stretching matters) you won't see out and about for more than five months each year. Many only pay road tax for six months each year. When you see them out most are not strong riders simply because they don't put in the practice. And courses like Gerry Palladino's simply don't exist. The reason? GIANT CRUSERS ARE CUMBERSOME AND VERY DIFFICULT TO RIDE. EXPERTISE IS REQUIRED. Even assuming one is able to secure basic safety, i.e. both feet really solid/ flat on the ground, anyone moving up from say a mid-weight 650c.c. bike will find it close to impossible to initially ride the bike through ninety or one hundred and eighty degrees at walking pace. Much more so when riding uphill. The long wheel base and sheer weight will do their very best to ground you. The bike's natural tendancy being to pull downwards rather than forward. One counteracts this by sitting vertically (as the bike is tilted) and use of the clutch and rear break simultaneously. Apart from sitting upright as the bike is tipped over, these are skills never needed on a regular sized bike. It's a whole new ball game. Bike design can help but not massively. For example my said big bike has a much lower centre of gravity than my former GTR1400, and a much lower seat height. At 5ft. 9ins. a 29" seat height is my max. I don't go in for silly high handlebars which are death traps. At the end of the day you decide what you really need and what is practical. Of course what spoils the party is that posing usually features highly. Let's be honest.
I have owned about 85 motorcycles ,from my cushman to my 85 VMAX and FJR1300 and my BMW Grand America. I am 79 years old and I ride every day,weather permitting. I ride about 700 miles per mo on the BMW,much less with the 2 Yamahas The big beemer is the finest bike that I have ever owned or ridden .I am 6'-1" 245 lbs
Here’s the solution, buy a r1250RT, put on Michelin anakee adventure tires (yes they have the size), it’s lighter, still great in the wind & rain, engine has better personality, put on peg lowering kit to open the leg angle a bit if you want and you have everything you need. You can even stand up on the pegs for light off roading if you want. I added an SW motech skid plate just to complete the concept. It’s a fully baked bike, minimal if any compromises. Have your cake and eat it too! 🎉
And it is going to cost you arm and the leg to fix panels, mirrors and panniers, when you inevitably drop RT in gravel road as we all do with our GSes from time to time. Only difference is... GS with scratches looks ok. Kind of suggests that rider gained some experience. RT with scratches doesn't look good and it suggest incompetence. 😁
@@monunyabidness5949 RT has better wind protection. An electronically adjustable windscreen, a radio, auto locking bags and heated driver and passenger seats
I sold my K1300GT and now have the Honda NT1100. The street version of the Africa Twin. This in Thailand. Unfortunately not yet sold in USA. Its a nice alternative for sport touring.
Another awesome video with unbiased and objective feedback! Ian, I must agree with you as I owned both a BMW RT and a BMW GS Adventure at the same time. I found that the only true benefit of the RT was slightly better wind protection in Winter....that's it! Owning both bikes at the same time I thought I'd have the best of both worlds, but alas, it wasn't so. I found that the GSA was such a good all-rounder, that I eventually sold the RT, and just kept the GSA. While I'm no off-road expert, just having the ability to just go along a dirt track, or travel on a gravel road, makes ALL the difference! My GSA has hard panniers and a top box, which gives me ample packing space for touring. As high speed is not my thing, I'm more than happy to travel quite comfortably at or just above the legal speed limits. Thanks again for a super review - warm greetings from South Africa!
Ok I ran a fking BMW Motoraad dealership for several years and dudes like you I loved because you had way more cash then was good fro your ability. If you want and adventure bike buy a bloody adventure bike. If you're to buy an adventure bike why the f**k would you go GSA vs GS - one is an suv the other is actually the best all rounder out there, (P.S. I got to ride every one in the line up and the RT would be second by a thread if you want to tour) If you can't ride an RT, or any other bike/brand, down a tertiary, gravel or dirt road - buy a Harley and stay on the highway ffs!
I've only been to Jo'berg but I'd be frightened to be in anything that wasn't armour plated in SA. The day I left, 7 people were burnt alive in riots against truck drivers from neighbouring countries.
Totally agree with everything thing you said, I have a KTM 1190 Adventure R and bought a road tourer and couldn’t believe how bad the suspension was compared to the KTM, on the KTM you never get unsettled by bumps in the road especially those bumps mid corner.
While I would agree…. Ktm needs to learn,how to make a seat. I bought the powerparts upgraded seat, for my 1290 sar. At 200-330 km’s, it’s almost unbearable. My Bmw s1000rr, has a beautiful stock seat. The only reason, I won’t buy a highway bike? Where the pavement ends. So does the ride.
I did a 12000+ mile Iron Butt (national parks tour) ride on a 1200RT, but in the end, I came up with basically no advantages to it vs the GSA. The RT's electric windscreen was nice, but once I set a windscreen I tend to never adjust it again anyway. Weather protection was maybe the tiniest bit better on the RT but not worth the disadvantage of the more cramped riding position. All that said, I do enjoy the idea of comically enormous motorcycles and would love to try a Gold Wing some day!
For 2 up long distance touring both my K1200 LT & Harley Ultra were spacious, comfortable, and smooth. The BMW had reverse and impeccable reliability which is a bonus thousands of miles from home. But once my wife quit riding in favor of an rv, I couldn’t imagine riding such beastly bikes solo and immediately downsized, first to a sport tourer and now an ADV bike. So I’m with you. Great report.
@@bseidem5112 Obviously he didn't have that, he's speaking from personal experience...the only one that matters. I did have an '07 K12GT that had several niggles and put me off but nothing catastrophic. I only ride Yamaha now.
Update: I bought a used K1600 GT, made a long trip in it & ended up happy with the performance. A keeper. Yes my LT was flawless, my Harley on the other hand blew the engine so far from anywhere it took the tow truck a 2 hr drive to get to us.
Great video, Ian. I agree completely. My minimum requirement for a bike is that it's fun to ride. It's why I ride motorcycles. They should to be nimble, responsive and able to handle different situations. The huge tourers are just something I don't understand. It's almost like getting a car with two wheels and no top.
I feel the same way about touring bikes. I've had a Yamaha Venture, Harley Ultra Limited, and an Indian Challenger. All super heavy and the only one that handled to my liking was the Indian. In the end, I was experiencing back pain due to the riding position and went back to adventure styled bikes. I'm now on the Moto Guzzi V85TT and loving it! The riding position is perfect for me, decent amount of suspension travel, and still has a big windscreen, luggage, and heated grips.
I can't help but think that if you tried a Gold Wing, you'd like it. The Yamaha, Harley, and Indian all put your feet well forward of you, which (contrary to popular belief) is not the most comfortable way to go.
@@davewilton3101 I don't remember any vibration at all. I now own a larger bike because my fat ass needs at least 1000cc. Handling was great on it too. I miss it and the Stelvio came out after I had purchased the bike I have now. The V85 really is a great bike!
This vblog shows Ian is as good at short form as long form. The information is there and viewers can evaluate with their criteria. This is easily my favorite bike channel which I am glad to support. Thanks for the video, I look forward to the full review of this bike.
I recently bought a k1600 GT to augment my 1250 GS. After a 5100 mile trip IMO it is hands down way better than my GS for long haul pavement rides. Smoother, faster, and the weight plants it in rough roads and in crosswinds. It even handles CA 1 very well without exhausting the rider. Where it sucks is stop and go traffic where you can’t split lanes. I’m keeping it.
I feel the same way. My other bike is a ktm 1290 Super Adventure. Your preference could be because you have the original K 1600 GT. I have not heard good things about the B or grand america version. I read that the B has a limited top speed due to some stability issues. The plain K 1600 GT is the sportiest of the model and probably the best engineered.
You mentioned this but I think the only true benefit of these bikes is 2-up riding. My Versys 1000 with a top case is pretty comfortable for a passenger but nothing close to that BMW or a Goldwing. Great video and perspective!
Excellent point I think and since I do not ride two up ever then everytime I am tempted to lust after anyything big and heavy I always catch myself thinking "WHY? There is just no reason to have all that extra bike specifically there for a pillion really" One Liter is even extra really ....It would actually be nice if they made 1 up varient of certain bikes that saved maybe 40llbs of material only really there to support the added load of a pillion ....they will never do that other than pure 1 up special edition sportbikes but I'm just saying it sure would appeal to ME! My T9gt weighs like 70llbs more than the same platform MT09 and I know some of that is in a beefed up subframe to handle more load for touring including two up touring I will never do
I too have a Versys 1000 (pre all singing and dancing electronics). I use it as a general-purpose bike and haven't been on any long rides yet. One big difference he didn't mention is the cost of ownership. My Versys gets 45mpg and I could (but sadly don't ... mostly a fear of breaking plastic bits) do most of the maintenance myself. I can take it virtually anywhere for any service I need since no special BMW (or some other touring bikes brands I could name) special tools are required. What I do need is cruise control and a big windscreen. I can get both (windscreen for a reasonable price and cruise for not so reasonable).
Great review, and I agree with all your points. That inline six must be one of the best engines in all of motorcycling - but the weight.... One thing you didn't mention about adventure bikes though, and a big con for many, is the height, being designed as they are for on/off road purposes. I'm 5' 10" with a 31" inseam, and astride a BMW 1250GS in the showroom, with the standard seat in low position, and suspension set to low with the engine running, I can just, get both feet down on tip toes. With the low seat fitted (less padding and therefore less comfort) and in the low position, I can just get both feet down on the balls of my feet. All well and good on a level surface, but put stopping on an indifferent surface such as a dirt or gravel road, and with one foot on a peg, and the other down on the ground, it would only take a small depression in the road surface to overbalance and have a fall. Going for a GS with the low suspension and low seat option fixes this, but then the advantages of long travel, soft suspension, over indifferent road surfaces that you mentioned are also lost. For me, an R1250RT would make more sense as the weight is the same as a GSA with panniers; it has a longer final drive ratio for more relaxed highway riding, and with the standard seat in the high position, I have no issue's with height and the feeling of instability when putting ones feet down. There is also the advantage of the electric screen, better wind and weather protection, and a quieter riding bike with the extra fairing and shielding of the motor etc As to off road use? Well I would personally never take a near 300Kg bike truly off road, as indeed most GS owners don't, as a fall would be very costly to both bike and rider, and very difficult to pick up the bike and recover if stuck in mud or sand etc, when riding solo. However for road use? I've seen lots of videos of RT's being used on dirt and gravel ROADS, and even going through water crossings, so the idea that you need a specialised adventure bike to be versatile enough to ride on unsealed roads is a bit of an urban myth in my view. Yes, you gain an 19" front wheel on the GS, but if we're talking riding some kilometres to say a camping ground on a dirt or gravel ROAD, an RT will manage admirably ridden with due care.
Spot on for all of the comments. I'm just back from a 2000-mile tour in Spain. We had a R1250GS and an R1250RS and swapped back and forth. While I do the see the attraction of the big battle cruisers, an 800-pound motorcycle is just never, ever gonna do it for me. Even with the GS at 550 pounds, heavily loaded, it takes a certain amount of bandwidth just to manage the damn weight. You have to be careful where you park it, never park on a slope and expect to back it up by foot. Turning it around in a hotel parking lot by hand is just a big grunt. Very easy to get it off balance and drop it. I don't find it too difficult to pick up, but a lot easier to drop. The height is a pain in the ass, too. I'm 5'7" and can't flat foot the GS. Because of its high center of mass, the weight is biased high and if you brake with the front at slow speed, it wants to dive toward the pavement. You can lose control of it. To me, too much drama. The unsung hero here was the RS. Lighter by about 15 pounds and lower. No awkward braking moments at slow speed and easy to move around. The riding position is only a little less upright, but comfortable. I can flat foot it easily. Out accelerates the GS, too. Although the GS has less power than K1600, the GS is probably a better accelerator. It's power to weight is 0.24/hp/lb compared to 0.20 for the k-bike. Of course, both are real slugs compared to my regular ride, a KTM Super Duke GT. At 475 pounds, it has 0.36/hp/lb. It's not real high, with a mid center of mass but the bags aren't very big and it feels more cramped two-up than the GS or RS. I'm willing to give up a lot for raw performance and I sure as hell don't need cup holders and reverse. On a twisty Spanish two-lane, we got behind a Harley following two livestock trucks. I felt sorry for him because he couldn't pass. We got by them all in one stroke. Speaking of which, different folks and different...
One of your best reviews! I've never heard anyone talk about pulling over on large bikes like that--and eventually you will. Also the one thing that bothers me on the light (475 lbs) Katana is the steering lock--I dropped it once because of that. I sat on one of those BMW K1600s once, the dealer had a really good deal on a demo. The engine was so cool, like nothing I had ever felt, and all the tech was fascinating. But at the end of the day, I felt it was just too big and the thought of maintenance (circa 1k valve adjustment) and just getting it to the place pushed the practical me away. Because in the end a major attraction for me to motorcycling is practicality.and minimalism.
Mr. BRM, thanks for all your very high-quality motorcycle reviews. I've watched a host of them for the past four months, and they've been truly informative. Since I'm considering purchasing an ADV bike, I try to pay close attention to your reviews since I'm confident that you will provide an in-depth and fair-minded review of them. Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate the honesty in your reviews. Everyone can make their own decisions based on their own requirements and experiences, but I like how you point out your likes and dislikes. Always well balanced and informative reviews. Thank you.
All that said is why I decided on the '21 Gold Wing instead of the _"Break My Wallet."_ I also own a '22 Africa Twin and enjoy them both, as they both own their element. But there is no way the AT matches the GW on long highway trips. If you're doing a 150 miles of pavement to get to your trailhead on the AT, fine. But 600 miles to the coast and back for a weekend of beach and seafood demands the Gold Wing hands down.
@@markheinig If I were doing 250-300 miles/day on reasonably good pavement, back roads or not, definitely the Wing. But if by "back roads" you mean poorly maintained (i.e. patchy) payment or any possibility of dirt/gravel roads I'd go with the AT. The 21" front wheel on the AT helps cure many road ills.
@@eyesonly4451 In my tours thru the western US, most of these roads have been decent/good pavement. Since I'm riding roads I'm not familiar with, I sometimes happen upon patchy pavement that varies in (lack of) quality and length; however, a bigger problem for me has been road construction. Some of those projects are long enough that I'd probably want to be on an AT.
It depends. I owned a GL1800 for ten years and sold it when my failing knee could no longer safely support it. I bought a cheap small Japanese cruiser to ride until I finally got my knee replaced. Now I own a KLX300 and a KTM890 Adventure and have owned a BMW F850GSA so I think I'm in a good position to compare touring bikes to ADV bikes. And "it depends". If I was still pounding out 500 plus miles days mostly on super slab or still had dreams of a Four Corners ride I'd have another Gold Wing in an instant. Now my needs and goals have changed. My wife doesn't ride with me so road trips together in good weather will be in the Miata. I no longer have dreams of knocking off a 30 day four corners tour by myself. So the dual sport and the ADV are perfect. They add a new dimension to my riding. I have really enjoyed learning the new skills required and feel that they have made me a better all around rider. A relaxed one day adventure or dual sport ride is, to me, more enjoyable than a one day highway trip. So for me, now, an ADV bike is a much better bike. If my wife rode with me and long trips on the bike as a couple were a possibility then I'd be at Honda dealer picking out a new Gold Wing in an instant. If I was trying to keep up with my son in-law on his 1290 Super Duke then I'd be buying a sport bike. An ADV bike does have to make compromises to be a good do everything bike. A purpose built touring bike, or sports bike, or cruiser, will always be better for what it was built for. So what is a better bike "depends" on what you want to do with it. And by the way my Gold Wing never felt as heavy or as hard to get into and out of the garage as that 850GSA.
Inappropriate subtitle was one hilarious moment my childish sense of humor appreciated on a Monday night after a long day. You summed it all up and couldn’t agree more with it. Later in life it will be a Goldwing that I may consider, but wouldn’t count on it because of the comfort of the ADV bike.
I had a 2008 R1200GS, a 2016 R1200R, and now I ride a 2022 R1250RT. I’m 6’5” and 230. Even with the tall version of the GS, I’ve noticed very little difference in the comfort of the riding position between the three bikes. If the weight is such an issue, then the RT would have been a better choice since it actually weighs the same as a GSA with luggage. My GS on its dual sport tires was not much better on dirt and gravel than my RT, and if you were to go with more aggressive tires, the RT would win hands down on the highway.
I love my KTM and my wife's Himalayan, but when it's time to cover some serious ground, I have my pride and joy; a Harley Ultra Glide Limited. Briefly, I've ridden with cruising BMWs and so many times they complain earlier and more often than I do about their comfort. I won't get a Goldwing because I'm allergic to plastic and am terribly afraid of buttons. The deciding factor was my wife. She spent years, seriously, finding her perfect back seat and the Harley won out by a long shot. Yeah, I don't look forward to roadside shops with gravel parking lots and narrow roads with soft shoulders, but the difference between a 850# bike with a 26" seat height and a 550# bike with a 30+" seat is minimal in those conditions. But yeah, if the law allowed us just one bike, I'd keep the KTM and be better prepared for the inevitable zombie apocalypse. ;) S
Currently have a Concours14, ElectraGlide Ultra and an old F650GS…. They’re all so different but all so much fun. I still miss my 2010 GS1200, went all over the country on that bike and it was an amazing touring bike. And tough as hell. Rolled her several times off road and she was still running upside down… pushed her back up and rode off. One of my favorite all time bikes in 47 years and over 30 bikes… I will have another one. That being said, I love any and all bikes. Each one has its own personality.
I have a ‘21 Goldwing Tour DCT. After putting 16k miles on it so far, I will always own one. It does 90% of what I want to do. I also own a BMW Racer. I love to just look at the Racer. But I’m always on the Goldwing. I love the long maintenance intervals and lower cost maintenance of the Goldwing, plus I really enjoy Apple’s CarPlay on it. 10% of the time I wish I had an ADV bike. But I would never make the switch. I think the handling on the Goldwing is incredible. I think it handles better than the lighter weight RT. Maybe if the Super Tenere gets updated, I will add that to the stable. I prefer lower cost maintenance bikes, that don’t involve too much time with bike maintenance.
@@markheinig I bought a maintenance package, where they come to your house, trailer it to the dealer, and do the required maintenance then deliver it home. It was $1500 for 3 years. I think it’s a great deal, if you plan on putting a lot of miles on it. Otherwise, there are sets of videos on TH-cam you can get, that will walk you through all of the maintenance on the bike.
I just road my GSA from Arizona to Pennsylvania and back. I have a Road Glide, but was glade that I took the GSA instead. The GSA is much quicker, smoother and more nimble. There were a lot of poorly maintained roads and road construction that made the GSA the perfect bike for the trip. At one point a semi truck moved into my lane as I was passing another semi. The trucker didn’t see me and didn’t mean any harm, but I was forced into the shoulder rumble strip. Once I passed the trucker and he finally saw me he slowed down and got back in the right hand lane. With the GSA’s narrow profile, ability to handle rough surfaces with loose gravel I was able to pull away with a smile on my face.
If you're just one-up, a smaller bike is definitely more attractive to me. And, having a bike that can handle some off-road is really nice. Being able to take that dirt road a little further for a prime camping spot is great. Something in the 800-1200cc range with 80/20 tires is the sweet spot for me in terms of power and lightness to be able to handle things alone if the kickstand sinks into the mud and I have to pick the bike back up. You mentioned not liking tie-downs, but having a bed roll right behind my back can really help on the longer rides.
Ian, I was on the fence between the GSA and RT. This video helped me make the right decision for me. Picked up my GSA today and could not be more pleased. Thank you for the exhaustive content. You are a tremendous resource. Ride safe.
I totally agree...I owned the K1600GTL for a year and traveled through California and Arizona. But once I rode a friend's GSA and then traveled on it. I was sold and traded in the GTL and bought the GSA. As far as my back and legs are concerned I'm 6-2. The Gsa is way more comfortable traveling on and 150 pounds lighter making it an all-around excellent ride for the city and traveling. There is a reason why you go to any BMW dealership and see how many used GTL's and GT's sitting on the lot. For the age group who buys this kind of bike or can afford them....they are just too heavy.
Very good! Agree totaly with you. Traded in my Honda ST 1300A, 320 kgs, for a T7. Im back enjoying riding like I havnt done in years. Just being able to park anywhere, without having to worry about a bike so heavy that I couldnt roll backwards uphill.
Great review and you hit all the key points I thought about. In the adventure class the manufacturers need to get onboard with creating more touring oriented versions of these bikes. For example Honda created touring version of Africa Twin (NT1100) that for whatever reason they chose to cheap out on suspension by reducing travel and quality (no automatically adjustable version) . Also, don't underetand why no version released for U.S. market.
I’m currently riding a ‘16 R1200 GSA. Absolutely love it. The only bike that could get me off it is the Goldwing Tour DCT. However, being 6’2”, I can’t imagine that the Wing is comfortable over long distances. Hence, I’ll probably upgrade my GSA sometime down the road.
I ride a Victory Vision which is a similarly large and heavy bike. I ride 2 up with my wife regularly. This is the one and only motorcycle I have ever owned. I purchased it last spring and I've put over 15,000 miles on it. Your video was insightful, great info and well produced.
I have a concours 1400 as my daily driver. Been daily riding for 10 years and the last 3 years has been on the concours. The best part is the value. I paid $6,000 for a low mileage concours. It’s basically a car with its luggage and wind protection and comfort compared to other motorcycles. I still think about trading it on for an early model Africa Twin but I don’t think the AT will be as good of a daily rider as my C14 with the winter months coming. Having an electric windshield, heated grips and massive fairing on the C14 is a huge benefit.
I have a C14 bought it exactly for the same price you paid with low mileage and it has been great. I compliment it with a 2012 500EXC for enduro and off-roading. Perfect combo imo and for my needs. Go find a 500EXC used and try that. You'll pay less in total than selling your C14 and getting an AT (assuming new). You'll have two excellent motorcycles that do, independently, a much better job for their role than the AT would do as a combo. My C14 runs circles on the street around an AT and my 500EXC does the same on dirt. And they are cheaper to get and own. No brainer for me.
@@C_R_O_M________ lol hey we are one in the same. I have a plated WR450F I’ve been riding Dualsports forever. I daily drove a KLR for 2 years at one point. My Stable has always been a street bike and a Dualsport for the last 5-6 years. KLR, DR, Drz, XR and now the WR. Paired with a Z1000, Fz09 and now the C14 I just want the AT for adventure touring.
Being over 80 years old I’ve had to buy a bike that will do anything I need it to. Long distance touring, town riding for shopping, occasional off road rides, fuel economy, easy maintenance, easy servicing, total and utter reliably,and most important to me….light weight. My ideal bike and current ride is HONDA CB500s. This one will see me out!!!!!
I totally agree with your assessment on the weight issue. I own both a ‘20 H-D Street Glide Special (roughly 850lbs) and a ‘20 BMW R1250GS (roughly 560lbs). At roughly 300lbs lighter the GS is so much easier to maneuver in tight spaces, it’s not even comparable. With the HD I never ever forget about the weight. Moving it around my garage or driveway or a parking lot and let it get just a 1/2” off center and she’s headed straight to the ground and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s extremely difficult to wrestle 850lbs that wants to fall. And if you are successful you’ve likely pulled something in your back, neck, or even your knee. Better off to let it hit the ground and then use proper technique to pick her back up. There’s a reason all HD touring bikes have engine guards, because she WILL be on the pavement sooner or later. You are also correct about the heavier weight and high speed travel. When on an interstate at highway speeds especially with a crosswind the Street Glide feels more planted than the GS. Strong wind and the GS really feels like she’s getting pushed around and requires more corrective input. Not a deal breaker by any means but it is simply physics. Lighter weight, taller profile, shorter wheel base, and sharper rake means it’ll feel more squirrelly in those conditions. You are also absolutely correct about the shock travel. I have upgraded the HD with Legend suspension front and rear. The rear shocks gave me almost an extra inch of travel. Even so the Street Glide gives a fairly rough ride. Better with the Legends but still rough. You will feel every bump in the road. The GS is far smoother. In fact on the small stuff you almost don’t feel it at all, whereas the HD I would definitely feel it. Not too bad on local rides but when the mileage of touring gets up there (say 300 + miles) you are ready to get off the HD. All that said the benefits and advantages of the adventure bike are undeniable. And if pressed and I could only keep one it would likely be the GS. However I’m fortunate that is not the case, because the Harley Davidson has a character and personality that is unparalleled. There is just something about riding an HD that is intangible and difficult to explain. Almost as thought they are an actual living thing. The rumble, the vibrating, the roar, and the amazing aesthetics are unique. So I ride them both. I live in the east but if I were touring out west I’d prefer to be on the GS. Not as big an issue east of the Mississippi.
I totally agree- I had a Dyna low rider S and GSA to have the best for the city and everything else. Now that I currently have an empty stable, hard to decide which one to get first.
My Goldwing was the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. The bars were raised, which made it perfect for standing up on gravel roads. I had a backrest and highway pegs for setting the cruise and leaning back. The radio was nice, and with a few pieces of over-priced plastic under the mirrors, I was completely shielded. Then one day I realized I was driving a heavy 2-wheeled car. All it lacked was an air conditioner! It handled like a drunk elephant in store parking lots when people would step out in front of me. I traded it in, and only miss it on cold mornings.
The bulk and weight of my FJR1300 , my first tourer, is what finally convinced me to sell mine after a few years. I didn’t do much interstate travel, so it was really ill-suited to my needs as well. Now I’m back on a 1250cc naked bike, and couldn’t be happier.
I’ve owned a Harley Ultra, BMW R 1200 GSA, BMW K 1600 B and now have a RT 1250. Harley was great but heavy and the suspension was bad. The GS was very comfortable, but didn’t have the best wind protection and the heat of the engine would cook my legs . The K 1600 was everything thing Big rock said. My 1250 Rt has been incredible. Not as comfortable as the GSA, but has the best wind protection of any bike that I’ve owned. At times a little too good on hot days. The motor is excellent with good torque. I wouldn’t trade it for anything else currently.
First of all touring bikes are not for going off road. For example when Honda designed the ST 1100 they did that primarily for the European market with the aim of being able to tour the continent all day, 2 people up @ 100 miles/hour. I.e. covering vast distances fast. Think German Autobahn. In my experience once riding weight is not that important. Center of gravity is. And I believe this is one of the problems with the K1600, the center of gravity sits too high. To me the BMW Boxer makes a much better touring bike. As does the ST 1100. Both bikes are heavy yet do have a low center of gravity. Which, again in my experience, makes them bikes that are easy to ride, even in city traffic. If you want to cover vast distances reasonably fast in all weather I believe nothing beats a touring bike. That's why most police forces tend to use these kind of bikes for most of their patrol work. I do own a BMW Boxer, an ST 1100 and a VFR. I like all 3, but the ST 1100 is the most comfortable. And to me that makes up for the weight. Also weather protection is very, very good.
I have both and love both. The one thing my tourers have that my adventure bike doesn't is far superior fairing protection from the elements - which is tremendous when it's cold or raining.
That's less an issue with any kind of decent adventure gear. Places like rocky mountain even offer inexpensive externally waterproof gear with vents when you want them. Oregon rain was no issue other than my gloves which were summer gloves specifically with perforations for ventilation. Wind gust protection is a rider fatigue saver. A lot of people ignore sound, but that's a big factor I consider. (Even offroad, my MX friend noted how much less wearing it was sound-wise when he rode my dr. It was _almost_ too quite, but it's nice to not need earplugs at all at that speed.)
I've owned the Versys 1000, the Ténéré 660, the Caponord 1200 and ridden the 1200GS quite a bit. 2 years ago I switched to the 1250 RT and I haven't looked back since. All I ride is tarmac, and on that front the RT is simply amazing. For me: muuuuuch better wind/rain/cold protection than trailies, lot easier to manoeuvre at walking speed than the higher bikes (weight lower down, slightly lower seat), comfort, fun, grunty and super practical (cases but also radar, heated seats etc). Where I agree with you is of course suspension travel, but not just that, I think the telelever system plays a part in how some cracks feel. I'm 6'1 and in the seat's high position my bad knees are fine. To me it seems your video is about the K16, not the 'touring bike' family as a whole.
My biggest problem with touring bikes is the size as well. While I would prefer a nice touring bike for my riding style, it has gotten to the point where the touring category has gotten way out of hand. For me my favorite touring bike was a BMW r60/5. It was a heavy machine but the weight was all reasonably low. It was reliable and was able to carry enough 'stuff'. It was comfortable. It handled 'rough roads' well. For me the focus for touring bikes has shifted from 'will it get me home' to 'will it provide me uberluxury'? For me there are just too many whiz bang gizmos on 'touring' bikes in the modern era. But then again I an a dino, so there is that. I also have gone to the R1200gs for most of these reasons, even though I do not need all the clearance and the bike is way to heavy in my opinion, but still lighter than most touring bikes. I just wish the focus were on 'lighter and reliability'. I do not need to take my living room with me on the road. But then again gotta sell what folks are buying so there is that.
I have listened to many of your videos, and I think you do a good job. Your video of the BMW K1600 was clear from the start you don't like it. A good review never starts out with negatives. Your preference is Adventure bikes, that's ok and I can understand why, but I think your review was too critical, I have traveled on the 1600 allot and it has many great qualities. It sounded as if you have a standard of what a bike should be or do and if it is different it is expressed as a deficiency. The windshield buffing you experienced I have never experienced; the seat height can be adjusted and even the handlebars, and that is on any bike. The 1600 has great torque pull, carries the weight of two riders easily, is smooth running, and reacts like a jet fighter if you crank the throttle full open. The leg position is a product of the seat height yes, but most people riding this bike can't ride more than two hours without a stop anyway. Again, I like your work, I think you cover the performance and features of the bike you're reviewing very well. On this review I felt it was a bit unfair, it makes me feel there was allot of bias present. I'll keep watching, I believe you're doing a great job.
This is a great discussion for me because I’ve only driven Ultra Classics and find them very comfortable. My preferred riding is 2k to 5k long distance trips mostly highway and mountain. The UC is very comfortable for me at age 65. I live about 40 minutes from The Dragon and have plenty of fun scraping my floorboards in the corners. Last, I was born in Milwaukee so Harley was one of those most likely to purchase bikes for me but I owned Yamaha’s when I was younger due mostly to my budget. I will also add that the Harley Dealer network gives me a lot of peace of mind if I were to break down. I looked at the Bm’r you reviewed and found the ride position uncomfortable as well as ride hight and the smaller wheels concerned me. Maybe I’ll stick with my Harley which is likely my last bike anyway.
I ride a ‘19 Ducati Multistrada 1260S and a ‘23 Goldwing Tour DCT. Both are very good at what they do best: the Multi for fast, shorter trips that include some light off-road duty; the GW for long distance, carefree riding-even through punishing Mojave desert wind-with some twisties thrown in because it’s surprisingly capable. The Multi is about 300lbs lighter but then you’re rolling, the much lower center of gravity of the GW really hides the weight difference. And moving around the garage, the GW is actually a little less prone to tip-over anxiety.
Yep, which is why I traded my Honda ST1300 (painted in Whale Grey) for an Africa Twin. There's just no way the big tourers' suspension systems are as plush as my AT with some adjustments. The ST was top heavy, had brutal shaft drive lash, poured heat, and tended to wander. The AT is simple, comfortable, very stable, can take a load, and goes off road pretty well.
Hey Ian! Always enjoy your video's. Very informative!!!! I have been on sport touring since 2004. In 1997 I started on a Honda nighthawk 750 and rode that bike for 8 years. I never took a trip longer than 3 days. Great starter bike. In 2004 I bought a Kawasaki Concourse. Loved that bike. I had recently semi-retired and managed to ride 7000 miles in 5 months. But a young lady took out me and Connie and she was totaled. The spring of 2005 I bought a Yamaha FJR1300! Wow! Awesome sport touring bike. I also bought a BMW R1100S later that year. Then in 2006 I plead temporary insanity by getting a naked as my primary motorcycle a BMW K1200R. I kept that motorcycle for 4 years and added a 2007 BMW G650Xmoto to the driveway. In 2010 I went back to sport touring to a 2005 BMW R1200ST. Really nice lightweight barebones sport touring. I put some miles on that bike and recently had a single motorcycle accident and she was totaled. I have always thought about Adventure motorcycles, really strong market now with middleweight ups to Heavy weights!!! I've test rode the GS 850, GS1200 and Ducati Multistarda 1200. All nice. I concluded I would probably not go off pavement, but if my final retirement finds me in East Tennessee, Adventure moto will be the ticket. After rehabbing last injury I was looking at 2 used BMW's a 2015 R1200RT $12,600 or a 2016 R1200RS $12,400. I was leaning toward the RS because it is lighter. I agree with you on the weight factor. Then, a 2013 Triumph Trophy SE 5,200 miles came up locally for $8000 plus taxes, etc. and I bought that one. She is heavy at 660 pounds, has more gizmo's that I've ever had on a motorcycle, looks like a BMW, reminds me of the FJR just a little. Looking forward to putting miles on, finding new rode. 4 wheels carry the body, 2 wheels drive the soul!!!!!
I've always lamented the decline of sports tourers in favour of ADV bikes, but the points you make are valid. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been drooling over a KTM 1290 Super Adventure S for a few years now also. That said, my idea of a sport tourer is more on the SPORT than touring. The likes of the Ninja 1000SX or the GSXS1000GT, for example. In those cases, the weights are more comparable and the use case for such bikes are also more fine tuned. Still, would I pick either of those over a 1290 SA? Maybe for the price savings.
I think most of the things you disliked are stuff that you'll eventually get used to and learn to deal with. With the proper technique, turning radiuses are a non issue. Even some riding over dirt roads is doable, as a friend of mine often does with his 60k miles Ultra Glide Limited.
I own 2018 VStrom 1000 and thought about getting touring bike for 2-up riding but I do that at most 10% of the time. The benefits of an adventure bike being more nimble, sporty, lower cost with superior suspension and better ergonomics far outweigh the subtle niceties of a tourer. If I wanted I touring best experience I would probably buy a sporty convertible.
I think that you hit the nail on the head there. Its all about how you would use the bike, what sort of riding, who you ride with etc. The k1600 is an absolute machine, but I do love the adventure bikes as well.
Having ridden for 43 years on the road I've found that even though I'm tall and strong I just don't like big heavy bikes. With the deteriorating roads surfaces on todays road my BMW R1200GS Rallye with the ESA sports suspension, which is firmer and has more travel than the standard, nearly is ideal, solo, or two up for the roads I ride. Being tall I agree 100% on most bikes being too cramped for tall riders with long legs another reason I like the Adventure bike. In the desert west I don't like the weather protection the big fairings of the touring bikes offer, you need airflow to keep cool. The only feature I would like from the touring models is the central locking for the cases. At the end of the day it's all horses for courses, we are all different shapes and sizes and ride different roads, one solution does not fit all.
That thing looks like a behemoth, and I ride a Road Glide Limited. Absolutely love my GSA and if I would trade out the RGL, it might be for an RT - seems to be just the right combination of size, weight, handling, and tech for a strictly road tourer.
Smaller lighter bikes for me! Did 25 hrs of saddle time in two days on a KLR 650. The nine inches of suspension travel more than makes up for the seat.
Bigger is not always better. The Goldwing is the Lazyboy of motorcycles; I know of nothing more comfortable. But these bikes are heavy. Even the adventure bikes are heavy. Six hundred pounds is not light, and the bike is taller. Sometimes I feel like I am riding a two story building. I lived on a street touring bike for nearly 20 years' it was my sole transportation for five. I'm pushing 70, and feel like I need to size things downward. Not crazy about moving to 3 wheels unless perhaps a sidecar rig. I've seen some crazy adventure sidecar bikes. I like being able to stand up on the bike. There are many features I like about the adventure bike, but they are so damned tall. I'm thinking more along the lines of a scrambler.
I went from 3 Adventure bikes in a row to a K1600GT in July. I miss the light weight of the Adventure bikes, but at 5'10", I always had issues with the height. Fixed the height issue by going to a GT, but now I have the weight to contend with. Not a huge deal, but I definitely agree that I am more cautious when coming to a stop and slow speeds in a parking lot on the GT.
I had the GT too. I came from riding Harleys, so I was used to the weight. I think Ian would like the GT better. As for his wanting to ride off-road, a GSA will do that and long range touring too.
I owned this bike. When I test rode it, I fell in love with it. Its a touring bike for sport bike guys in my opinion. That engine is amazing and the sound is incredible! I went on the highway a few days after buying it and set the cruise on 78 mph. The bike was all over the road, especially when passing or following big trucks. I started researching the issue and its a common problem. One approach to dealing with the excessive buffeting is to remove the trunk. There is a guy who makes a really nice trunk delete kit for these. Well, you obviously lose the storage and it didn’t really solve the problem. I traded the bike shortly after. Real bummer. The bike is incredible and does well in the corners for it’s size. It will wheelie, too. I hope BMW has addressed the twitchy ride.
I have a R 1250 RT and I go off the paved roads from timt to time. Only turned back once when the surface turned into soft sand! The streets here in Austria are full with BMW GS and most of the riders will not be able to handle this heavy beast in hard offroading. I enjoy the comfort and weatherprotection of my RT. Most of the time I ride with my wife, we’re doing about 20kkm a year which is about 13k miles and she absolutely loves the RT.
That last one really resonated with me. I have a sport touring bike and I want to get an adventure bike next so I don't have to turn back when encountering unpaved roads. Whether I will end up doing much off roading I don't know, but it would be great to have the flexibility.
When talking about 'touring bikes' here in Italy, we refer to the likes of Kawasaki 1000SX. Behemots like the one in the video wouldn't even be able to negotiate a basic hairpin turn on a mountain pass. I agree though, there's a reason why bikes like BMW 1250GS and Africa Twin outsell pretty much everything else.
I can't picture myself ever owning a big touring bike for the reasons you stated, but I wouldn't lump all sport touring in with them. I'm very happy to have a great sport touring bike (Sprint ST 1050) alongside my ADV, and I'd like to keep it that way. Any trip that I don't plan to leave pavement, I'd rather be on the Sprint, and I find the sporting riding position comfortable in its own way - I sometimes call the Sprint my chiropractor. It weighs 100lbs more than my ADV (V-Strom 650XT - maybe not a real ADV to some but it's never failed to get me where I want to go) but I only notice the weight when lifting off the side stand, it's every bit as nimble in a parking lot at low speed, and it transitions into turns *so* much quicker than the 'Strom with the 19" front. I'd lose something if I gave up either of them so I'll happily keep a sport tourer and an ADV (and a dual sport for true dirt shenanigans) in my stable as much as I'm able.
I rode a Honda Goldwing across the United States and in between. I rode for 43 years touring. one thing that i learned was to always change the seat and handle bars to fit me custom . never buy a bike and ride it without fixing the handlebars and replacing the seat for a better feel and reach.
I started watching you when I was trying to zero in on what bike to get, and I am still here, months after buying my new bike. Great and thorough reviews!
Hey, I need to jump in here and say that real off-road is not possible because 95 % forbidden in Germany and maybe middle or central Europe. So such bikes are real road bikes and in my area nobody would think about going off-road with such a bike here. Lucky Ian has the dessert or nice off-road next his living area and can enjoy the ride through sand, mud or gravel. So I fully understand his opinion swapping such a bike to a adventure bike. Me riding the GS 1200 with street tires because of the reasons said at the beginning.
How on earth did you manage to allow the politicians to forbid you access to nature? Because you certainly can't hike or carry things on foot for big distances. One of the many reasons why the US of A is still the favorite destination for immigrants from Europe. BTW, I'm in Europe too, just not in a country that forbids us basic access to nature and off road riding. That would be Greece.
Thanks for a very comprehensive review. I’ve also owned a number of bikes and currently own a Ducati 1260 Multistrada, a Versys 1000 and a VFR800 8th gen. As I get older I enjoy lighter bikes with more safety features. The are also much easier to handle than the FJR1300s, ST1300, and earlier Goldwings I once had.
Key point “lighter”. As I age, the harder to negotiate those big heavy bikes. Even my super Tenere at well over 500# . I agree with Ian 100% - adv tourer bikes hands down more practical. But, I don’t ever carry a pax.
Thanks for the review. The K1600 is a specialised bike. It works well for touring tarmac, and visiting places served by flat car parks. It’s defining features are the barn door screen, the cavernous panniers, wrap around pillion seat and that big six engine. The R1200/1250RT is better proposition if you want all the comfort but want to shed some of the weight. The S1000XR is the sports bike on stilts and is much more of a riders bike but you are starting to give up the pillions comfort. All models have options that will sort out seat and peg height so don’t let that put you off. Taller riders will need to make adjustments to any of the tourers to get closer to the leg room you get as standard on tall adventure bikes. I’m currently on a Multistrada. The engine note is a bit more exciting than the BM’s, and it’s a bit lighter. It’s got the same lockable luggage but it’s all optimised for lack of weight rather than quality, comfort and convenience. I’m tempted by an RT which might be the sweet spots in the range but is nowhere near as popular as the GS. It’s great to experience heavy weight bikes. I recently rented one in California. But they really are optimised for a very narrow set of use cases. As the author says even pulling off the tarmac and dropping on to dirt at the side of the road for a photo and riding back over a lip of tarmac to rejoin the road takes planning and careful riding. Thanks again for the review.
Although I do get your points, I do think it's a very American-centric view. Dirt roads / offroad trails are very uncommon in western Europe. The roads are generally also a lot better - i.e. the more stiff suspension makes sense in a European context.
Agree, the GL1800 is a hand full at the end of the day. The new 2018 + is much better, but it is a challenge after a couple hours. Even on an "easy" cruse have to rest after 90 min or so. Not bad but not a couch either. I'm looking at ADV's. And yes agree these heavy bikes are tricky in loose dirt at slow speed. Not something you want to drop on a dirt or gravel road. If you are going to National parks etc. you will have some dirt or gravel to traverse.
When I left the states I sold my Goldwing, and moved to the Andes in South America, I found my riding needs were far different. Steep mountain roads, some hard surface and much of my riding is an adventure biker's dream. At times a 125 dirt bike seems to be the best choice but i also wanted lots of luggage and carrying capability. So I finally settled on the Royal Enfield 411 Himalayan. The low end power makes easy work of climbing dirt hills under load, crossing streams and the weight gives stability on the highways and secondary roads under any load conditions. And it has a fun factor that the touring bikes just don't have. Down here I have as much muddy road conditions as I do hard surface and that is why the Himalayan is becoming quite popular. It was designed as a work mule and reminds me of a Jeep with two wheels. My needs are not weekend pleasure riding, but rather daily riding going to market and transport of produce and such with my wife and I. A touring bike for me would just not be of much use.
What you notice at 2:45 is not necessarily always an issue. When I went from my sports bike to an adventure bike, I thought my turning radius would be much reduced due to the steering lock being much wider. However in practice this was not true at all! After thinking about it a bit, it makes sense. The key is, your turning radius is not determined by the steering lock or how far your front wheel can 'tilt'. The turning radius is purely determined by the intersection of the axis perpendicular to the wheel. That means if your wheel can 'tilt' less due to a steering lock, you have a larger turning radius. However, if the distance between wheels is increased, it too increases turning radius. In practice this increase in wheelbase was enough to have a practically identical turning radius to my sports bike. Although I can imagine that with such a big touring machine as the K1600 you get both AND a long wheelbase AND a reduced steering range.
I think he was referring to a turning radius on a parking lot or situations like that. In low speeds/walking pedaling you sit upright and really steer with the front wheel like in car. In higher speeds, you steer by leaning.
@@vojtal182 What I am describing is mostly applicable in slow speed situations such as parking lots. The reason why a motorcycle leans at speed is to balance gravitational forces with centrifugal forces. I.e. lean angle is dependent on corner radius AND speed.
I have both the 1200 gsa and the 1600b Grand America. Absolutely different bikes, but I love them both. If I'm with my wife, the 1600b is by far my wife's and my favorite. Solo, i love them equally. If going in the dirt is the only option. GSA all the way. It just depends on your preference for a ride. Ride your ride. Nothing else matters.
Always enjoy your videos. I have a 2012 BMW GTL (GT and GTL ride is different than the Grand America), riding paved roads for 9 years. Love the bike and the setup is very comfortable (for me). I’ll continue to use it for 2-up riding and for day rides with others on similar bikes. This year bought a 2022 GSA 1250 and love getting off pavement. Have some long solo trips planned (AK next summer, BDR’s) over the next couple years that will include off road, so I’ll be on the GSA for all longer trips that are not 2-up. Nice to be able to choose “and” rather than “or”. Each bike for its own purpose.
The concern about going off-pavement is very valid; how many tourist attractions, AirBNBs and other places have gravel drives and - more importantly - would you feel the need to check all such things when planning a journey? And what if you see a sign for something interesting a few miles off your route, only to find the pavement ends halfway there? Worrying about the weight would bar much of the random adventure that makes touring so great.
I rode Honda Goldwings for years. Sold my 2014 Wing and bought a 2019 Kawasaki Versys 1000. I love the lighter Versys and feel it is as comfortable as my wing with about 300 pounds less weight.
I get what you're saying. I would frequently do a 400 mile ride on my GSXR750 and people would say "how can you do so many miles on an uncomfortable bike?" But I wasn't uncomfortable. I think height, weight and level of physical fitness play a huge role in what bike serves someone better than another. At 5'10", I was always right at home on pretty much every bike, but was also more comfortable up/over the front wheel than behind it with my legs out. It just feels very dangerous to me and I don't think i can relax.
Toured cross country on an r1200rs. It's a sleeper in the bmw line up. Added an aeroflow shield and wings. Huge difference in protection and comfort. If your average height..5'9"ish, give it a try. I have been on all the others the weight and reach to the ground was always a problem. Add bar risers and don't plan on taking a passenger. The rear seat is way to high and small.
I'm currently on a challenger and at 71 finding it heavy. That said once you're moving it's fine. I've been looking for something lighter, demoed several and have not yet found something i'd want to live with, yet. I'd like to see a RS but around here there's none to see let alone sit on and demo. I'm curious for us older riders just how comfortable it is for hip/knee position. I'm 5'9", 30" inseam.
@@davewilton3101 Hi..I am 68 and agree with you, heavy is not a friend. Had a tough time with the old RT and GS. About 5'8ish 155 pounds. The RS is like a bicycle at slow speeds. The weight is low and never got in trouble while trundlng slowly. Was ok with the neck and arms after the bar risers, and the peg placement made it super easy to stand while riding. Not many in the dealerships here as well. i actually purchased mine in Ft Collins and rode it back to Jersey after a week touring with a buddy.
Bought a 2019 K1600 GT after riding it from San Diego to Seattle. Instead of dropping it off to its owner, I purchased it and rode it back. I’ve put 9000 miles on it in 4 months including another trip to Oregon. I find most of the comments you’ve made to be contradictory to my own experience. I am 5’6”-170 and have chronic back issues. Even after 7days of riding, one-way and 5 days of riding the other way for a total of nearly 4000 miles, I felt very comfortable with no pain or fatigue at all. The previous owner of the bike then bought a GTL and I rode with him to Oregon with him and then back for another 9 days of riding round-trip. One of the side roads I took was gravel and then dirt. I found the intimidation factor to be very high in regard to not wanting to dump the bike, but the ABS and TCS were exceptional, and I never felt like I was in danger, in regard to traction. unless I went down a steep incline. The bike is quite heavy as you mentioned but it feels well balanced. Strategic planning keeps me from getting into a situation we’re I’m at a disadvantageous angle. I find myself able to make pretty tight U-turns in my parking structure and I’m not sure if you noted that taking the rider seat off exposes a clip in adjuster that will give you more seat height just by flipping it over.
At one point I rode a K1300S (road) and a KLR650 (dirt). While the K1300S was simply an amazing bike, it was too narrow-focused. The KLR was the entry-level for dirt but really a dog of a bike. I replaced both with a 2016 1200 GSA and haven't looked back. I briefly considered a K1600 GT when I retire from dirt but one I learned how heavy it was I eliminated it. Ian hits all the points here. The big GSA has better ergos, plenty of power, weighs less, does more and is super nimble thanks in part to the low-slung boxer motor. It's rides better off-road than the KLR ever did, and is easier to pick up despite the greater weight. One thing Ian failed to mention - an Adventure bike with crashbars suffers no damage in a zero-MPH fall. Plastic covered touring bikes don't fare as well. I was terrified of my K1300S tipping over, as a single side-fairing panel cost $1000. Crazy. GSA FOR THE WIN!
Another great video . For me it is all about the seating position setting more upright and not having my knees bender it sharp angel. Adventure bikes just are more fun to ride.
Great video!! I totally agree with you in every aspect you mentioned. Two years ago i bought a GS and before that I had a PanEuropean, and also did quire a lot of kms on a RT. I must say would change the GS for anything. In a perfect world with roads with no holes an no bumps, and given that you don't like to get off the asphalt from time to time, maybe a tourer makes sense. Where I like to ride there are all those things I mentioned before, and more important, twisties, and for that (in my humble opinion) an adventure bike a better choice. But no matter what you ride, a motorcycle is a motorcycle. Have a lot fun and stay safe. See you all on the road 😉
Curious if Honda brings the NT1100 to North America, and if that helps solve the "gap" between tall and off-road focused adv bikes, and the "touring" ones that suffer even on light gravel road usage. Always going to be trade offs as a low and heavy bike can haul gear and eat up the highway miles far more comfortably than a taller and lighter one: just a matter of finding a sweet spot that fits your riding style.
@@talltale9760 feels like a middle ground between a proper AT and a NC750. Too light for here in the high rockies sadly; when the towns in the valley start at 7,300' elevation and it just goes up from there + 30-40 mph gusty cross winds, those light and lean bikes get really sketchy on the highways.
The majority of seniors in the group I meet with ride touring, cruiser, of sport bikes, never rode on gravel/dirt/sand only on pavement. They have never been on unpaved roads and the fear of dropping their heavy bikes, and God forbid, scratching up chrome or paint is unbearable. Most of these bikes have 70,000 plus miles on the clock and are in showroom condition.
I agree with you 100%. It is a nice bike, but it is also very limiting with regard to where you can go and what you can do. Conversely, the big GS Adventure, which is what I ride, is more than comfortable enough for the highway, but still leaves me the option to head down some dirt roads when I want to.
We all have our biases, both aesthetic and consumer. We also have personal preferences which are evident in the video and comments. I own a K1600 GA and have been riding several different styles since the 80s. I’m 6’0 and over 50 yet have no knee, hip or back issues on 3000+ mile trips. I also live on 1 mile of a dirt and soft gravel road. The GA certainly doesn’t handle like an adventure bike off road, but is easily manageable if you are familiar with the bike. This video is well done and offers excellent insight to someone who can’t try out several bikes themselves. But, in the end please choose what makes you happy, not someone else. (Just my 2 cents)
Hey y'all from Alabama... Hey Big Rock... Love the content, I ride an Africa Twin and I love it because like you said it's versatility, but I still like watching your videos and getting your opinion, see you down the trail
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I do agree for the most part on your take on touring bikes. At 74 I have a limit of the weight a bike can be and be comfortable with it. Right now I ride a Kawasaki Versys 1000. I agree with you comment on leg position, I like the extra room you get from the taller saddle. In truth even at only 575 lbs. I now struggle wit this weight at my age. So this is my cure for me... a Triumph sport 660. So, Makes sense to me...
What riding gear are you wearing in this video?
The 1200RT is the only bike I got in a crash on. Always rode sport bikes. Got an RT for work commutes (in San Diego). Someone clipped my side case (that bike has a fat ass) heavy traffic while splitting lanes, took me out, bike totaled. I flew thru the windscreen, backflipped off the concrete and landed on my feet 🥷. Never rode a touring bike again… also never had another crash.
Nice review keep up the good work does this come in automatic
Excellent review! Please do a review a R1250RT, if you can. I love how thorough you are and I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions.
After owning both touring and adventure bikes, I prefer touring bikes. For me they've been more comfy, I tend to like the luggage better, and maybe 25% of my riding is with a passenger. For me the wind protection has also been better, which makes a difference when I'm riding over an hour to work on a 40 degree morning. While not always the case, the added weight can make for a nicer long freeway ride.
Me too, I went from bikes like the MG Quota and R100GS (about 25 years ago) to touring bikes like a BMW R1100RT and later The mighty Goldwing. I always laughed at friends who rode one until I rode one myself. That was around 25 years ago , first a GL1100 sidecar, then a solo GL1800, then 10 years a GL1500 EML trike and the last 6 years or-so a GL1800 EZS reversed trike)
Same here!
@@David_Journey I'm 38 and I had my FJR1300 since I was 36. My knees are fine! 😆
@@David_Journey I am only 170cm so no sharp knee problem here.
100%
when it gets this big better to get a Miata
😂
No, it’s not.
@AZ-zn9lgI’m not sure where the Adventure part of this comes from, it’s not marketed as an adventure bike, it’s a touring bike.
@AZ-zn9lgit has 4 wheels..
I owned a 124 Spider for a few years and this bike is in a whole 'nother dimension than that little go-kart.
How refreshing to listen to someone speaking openly / honestly rather than presenting a biased obligated twist, often because the bike has been loaned out for promotion.
First let me introduce myself: I initially biked for three years off road, but the last fifty five years have been exclusively spent highway motoring as such is now my only biking interest. I live in the U.K. but am intimate with U.S.A. motoring (hire cars only) over many years. My current largest bike is a Honda Valkyrie Interstate.
I'll arguably over-simplify matters what for me are the major issues and speak equally honestly as BRM. Apreciating that readers' attention spans are mainly short.
In the U.S.A. the weather is good, the roads are long and straight, and overall in very good condition. Most bikers like big bikes and Harleys are by far the most popular. Conversely, in the U.K. the weather is abysmal (almost endless rain), and apart from motorways the roads are a mish mash of minor roads, with never ending sharp turns, and often ill maintained. My own county of Devon arguably being the worst. Large bikes are a rareity and I'd struggle to name the most popular manufacturer. You'll find examples of most everything here.
Apart from believing in politicians, most folk have common sense and U.K. bikers are no exception. There is a solid reason why most bikes are much smaller here.
Nearly all of our bikers are 'fine weather bikers,' which (even if stretching matters) you won't see out and about for more than five months each year. Many only pay road tax for six months each year. When you see them out most are not strong riders simply because they don't put in the practice. And courses like Gerry Palladino's simply don't exist. The reason?
GIANT CRUSERS ARE CUMBERSOME AND VERY DIFFICULT TO RIDE. EXPERTISE IS REQUIRED.
Even assuming one is able to secure basic safety, i.e. both feet really solid/ flat on the ground, anyone moving up from say a mid-weight 650c.c. bike will find it close to impossible to initially ride the bike through ninety or one hundred and eighty degrees at walking pace. Much more so when riding uphill. The long wheel base and sheer weight will do their very best to ground you. The bike's natural tendancy being to pull downwards rather than forward. One counteracts this by sitting vertically (as the bike is tilted) and use of the clutch and rear break simultaneously. Apart from sitting upright as the bike is tipped over, these are skills never needed on a regular sized bike. It's a whole new ball game.
Bike design can help but not massively. For example my said big bike has a much lower centre of gravity than my former GTR1400, and a much lower seat height. At 5ft. 9ins. a 29" seat height is my max. I don't go in for silly high handlebars which are death traps.
At the end of the day you decide what you really need and what is practical. Of course what spoils the party is that posing usually features highly. Let's be honest.
I have owned about 85 motorcycles ,from my cushman to my 85 VMAX and FJR1300 and my BMW Grand America. I am 79 years old and I ride every day,weather permitting. I ride about 700 miles per mo on the BMW,much less with the 2 Yamahas The big beemer is the finest bike that I have ever owned or ridden .I am 6'-1" 245 lbs
Here’s the solution, buy a r1250RT, put on Michelin anakee adventure tires (yes they have the size), it’s lighter, still great in the wind & rain, engine has better personality, put on peg lowering kit to open the leg angle a bit if you want and you have everything you need. You can even stand up on the pegs for light off roading if you want. I added an SW motech skid plate just to complete the concept. It’s a fully baked bike, minimal if any compromises. Have your cake and eat it too! 🎉
I take my RT offroad all the time with just street tires
Or, ... you could just get the GS which does everything the RT does, but has better ergos built in, and more adaptability built in.
And it is going to cost you arm and the leg to fix panels, mirrors and panniers, when you inevitably drop RT in gravel road as we all do with our GSes from time to time. Only difference is... GS with scratches looks ok. Kind of suggests that rider gained some experience. RT with scratches doesn't look good and it suggest incompetence. 😁
I have the R1200RT police version, those crash bars protect the fairing and mirrors perfectly - its a GS with weather protection for me
@@monunyabidness5949 RT has better wind protection. An electronically adjustable windscreen, a radio, auto locking bags and heated driver and passenger seats
I sold my K1300GT and now have the Honda NT1100. The street version of the Africa Twin. This in Thailand. Unfortunately not yet sold in USA. Its a nice alternative for sport touring.
Another awesome video with unbiased and objective feedback! Ian, I must agree with you as I owned both a BMW RT and a BMW GS Adventure at the same time. I found that the only true benefit of the RT was slightly better wind protection in Winter....that's it! Owning both bikes at the same time I thought I'd have the best of both worlds, but alas, it wasn't so. I found that the GSA was such a good all-rounder, that I eventually sold the RT, and just kept the GSA. While I'm no off-road expert, just having the ability to just go along a dirt track, or travel on a gravel road, makes ALL the difference! My GSA has hard panniers and a top box, which gives me ample packing space for touring. As high speed is not my thing, I'm more than happy to travel quite comfortably at or just above the legal speed limits. Thanks again for a super review - warm greetings from South Africa!
Ok I ran a fking BMW Motoraad dealership for several years and dudes like you I loved because you had way more cash then was good fro your ability. If you want and adventure bike buy a bloody adventure bike. If you're to buy an adventure bike why the f**k would you go GSA vs GS - one is an suv the other is actually the best all rounder out there, (P.S. I got to ride every one in the line up and the RT would be second by a thread if you want to tour)
If you can't ride an RT, or any other bike/brand, down a tertiary, gravel or dirt road - buy a Harley and stay on the highway ffs!
I've only been to Jo'berg but I'd be frightened to be in anything that wasn't armour plated in SA. The day I left, 7 people were burnt alive in riots against truck drivers from neighbouring countries.
Totally agree with everything thing you said, I have a KTM 1190 Adventure R and bought a road tourer and couldn’t believe how bad the suspension was compared to the KTM, on the KTM you never get unsettled by bumps in the road especially those bumps mid corner.
While I would agree…. Ktm needs to learn,how to make a seat. I bought the powerparts upgraded seat, for my 1290 sar. At 200-330 km’s, it’s almost unbearable. My Bmw s1000rr, has a beautiful stock seat.
The only reason, I won’t buy a highway bike?
Where the pavement ends. So does the ride.
I did a 12000+ mile Iron Butt (national parks tour) ride on a 1200RT, but in the end, I came up with basically no advantages to it vs the GSA. The RT's electric windscreen was nice, but once I set a windscreen I tend to never adjust it again anyway. Weather protection was maybe the tiniest bit better on the RT but not worth the disadvantage of the more cramped riding position. All that said, I do enjoy the idea of comically enormous motorcycles and would love to try a Gold Wing some day!
For 2 up long distance touring both my K1200 LT & Harley Ultra were spacious, comfortable, and smooth. The BMW had reverse and impeccable reliability which is a bonus thousands of miles from home. But once my wife quit riding in favor of an rv, I couldn’t imagine riding such beastly bikes solo and immediately downsized, first to a sport tourer and now an ADV bike. So I’m with you. Great report.
Reliability? You've forgotten the BMW K1200LT scandal of numbers of rear axle failures?
@@bseidem5112 Obviously he didn't have that, he's speaking from personal experience...the only one that matters.
I did have an '07 K12GT that had several niggles and put me off but nothing catastrophic. I only ride Yamaha now.
@@bseidem5112 You talkin bout the early 2000s models and the final drive?
Update: I bought a used K1600 GT, made a long trip in it & ended up happy with the performance. A keeper. Yes my LT was flawless, my Harley on the other hand blew the engine so far from anywhere it took the tow truck a 2 hr drive to get to us.
Great video, Ian. I agree completely. My minimum requirement for a bike is that it's fun to ride. It's why I ride motorcycles. They should to be nimble, responsive and able to handle different situations. The huge tourers are just something I don't understand. It's almost like getting a car with two wheels and no top.
I agree. Light, nimble and flickable is what a bike should be for me and my style of riding.
May as well ride a trike at that point LoL to stabilize that weight
I feel the same way about touring bikes. I've had a Yamaha Venture, Harley Ultra Limited, and an Indian Challenger. All super heavy and the only one that handled to my liking was the Indian. In the end, I was experiencing back pain due to the riding position and went back to adventure styled bikes. I'm now on the Moto Guzzi V85TT and loving it! The riding position is perfect for me, decent amount of suspension travel, and still has a big windscreen, luggage, and heated grips.
I can't help but think that if you tried a Gold Wing, you'd like it. The Yamaha, Harley, and Indian all put your feet well forward of you, which (contrary to popular belief) is not the most comfortable way to go.
How is it for vibrations?
@@davewilton3101 I don't remember any vibration at all. I now own a larger bike because my fat ass needs at least 1000cc. Handling was great on it too. I miss it and the Stelvio came out after I had purchased the bike I have now. The V85 really is a great bike!
This vblog shows Ian is as good at short form as long form. The information is there and viewers can evaluate with their criteria. This is easily my favorite bike channel which I am glad to support. Thanks for the video, I look forward to the full review of this bike.
I recently bought a k1600 GT to augment my 1250 GS. After a 5100 mile trip IMO it is hands down way better than my GS for long haul pavement rides. Smoother, faster, and the weight plants it in rough roads and in crosswinds. It even handles CA 1 very well without exhausting the rider. Where it sucks is stop and go traffic where you can’t split lanes. I’m keeping it.
I feel the same way. My other bike is a ktm 1290 Super Adventure. Your preference could be because you have the original K 1600 GT. I have not heard good things about the B or grand america version. I read that the B has a limited top speed due to some stability issues. The plain K 1600 GT is the sportiest of the model and probably the best engineered.
Same. Less nimble slightly but for long hauls way more comfortable.
You mentioned this but I think the only true benefit of these bikes is 2-up riding. My Versys 1000 with a top case is pretty comfortable for a passenger but nothing close to that BMW or a Goldwing. Great video and perspective!
Excellent point I think and since I do not ride two up ever then everytime I am tempted to lust after anyything big and heavy I always catch myself thinking "WHY? There is just no reason to have all that extra bike specifically there for a pillion really" One Liter is even extra really ....It would actually be nice if they made 1 up varient of certain bikes that saved maybe 40llbs of material only really there to support the added load of a pillion ....they will never do that other than pure 1 up special edition sportbikes but I'm just saying it sure would appeal to ME! My T9gt weighs like 70llbs more than the same platform MT09 and I know some of that is in a beefed up subframe to handle more load for touring including two up touring I will never do
I too have a Versys 1000 (pre all singing and dancing electronics). I use it as a general-purpose bike and haven't been on any long rides yet. One big difference he didn't mention is the cost of ownership. My Versys gets 45mpg and I could (but sadly don't ... mostly a fear of breaking plastic bits) do most of the maintenance myself. I can take it virtually anywhere for any service I need since no special BMW (or some other touring bikes brands I could name) special tools are required.
What I do need is cruise control and a big windscreen. I can get both (windscreen for a reasonable price and cruise for not so reasonable).
Great review, and I agree with all your points. That inline six must be one of the best engines in all of motorcycling - but the weight.... One thing you didn't mention about adventure bikes though, and a big con for many, is the height, being designed as they are for on/off road purposes.
I'm 5' 10" with a 31" inseam, and astride a BMW 1250GS in the showroom, with the standard seat in low position, and suspension set to low with the engine running, I can just, get both feet down on tip toes. With the low seat fitted (less padding and therefore less comfort) and in the low position, I can just get both feet down on the balls of my feet.
All well and good on a level surface, but put stopping on an indifferent surface such as a dirt or gravel road, and with one foot on a peg, and the other down on the ground, it would only take a small depression in the road surface to overbalance and have a fall.
Going for a GS with the low suspension and low seat option fixes this, but then the advantages of long travel, soft suspension, over indifferent road surfaces that you mentioned are also lost.
For me, an R1250RT would make more sense as the weight is the same as a GSA with panniers; it has a longer final drive ratio for more relaxed highway riding, and with the standard seat in the high position, I have no issue's with height and the feeling of instability when putting ones feet down. There is also the advantage of the electric screen, better wind and weather protection, and a quieter riding bike with the extra fairing and shielding of the motor etc
As to off road use? Well I would personally never take a near 300Kg bike truly off road, as indeed most GS owners don't, as a fall would be very costly to both bike and rider, and very difficult to pick up the bike and recover if stuck in mud or sand etc, when riding solo.
However for road use? I've seen lots of videos of RT's being used on dirt and gravel ROADS, and even going through water crossings, so the idea that you need a specialised adventure bike to be versatile enough to ride on unsealed roads is a bit of an urban myth in my view.
Yes, you gain an 19" front wheel on the GS, but if we're talking riding some kilometres to say a camping ground on a dirt or gravel ROAD, an RT will manage admirably ridden with due care.
Spot on for all of the comments.
I'm just back from a 2000-mile tour in Spain. We had a R1250GS and an R1250RS and swapped back and forth.
While I do the see the attraction of the big battle cruisers, an 800-pound motorcycle is just never, ever gonna do it for me. Even with the GS at 550 pounds, heavily loaded, it takes a certain amount of bandwidth just to manage the damn weight. You have to be careful where you park it, never park on a slope and expect to back it up by foot. Turning it around in a hotel parking lot by hand is just a big grunt. Very easy to get it off balance and drop it. I don't find it too difficult to pick up, but a lot easier to drop.
The height is a pain in the ass, too. I'm 5'7" and can't flat foot the GS. Because of its high center of mass, the weight is biased high and if you brake with the front at slow speed, it wants to dive toward the pavement. You can lose control of it. To me, too much drama. The unsung hero here was the RS. Lighter by about 15 pounds and lower. No awkward braking moments at slow speed and easy to move around. The riding position is only a little less upright, but comfortable. I can flat foot it easily. Out accelerates the GS, too.
Although the GS has less power than K1600, the GS is probably a better accelerator. It's power to weight is 0.24/hp/lb compared to 0.20 for the k-bike. Of course, both are real slugs compared to my regular ride, a KTM Super Duke GT. At 475 pounds, it has 0.36/hp/lb. It's not real high, with a mid center of mass but the bags aren't very big and it feels more cramped two-up than the GS or RS. I'm willing to give up a lot for raw performance and I sure as hell don't need cup holders and reverse.
On a twisty Spanish two-lane, we got behind a Harley following two livestock trucks. I felt sorry for him because he couldn't pass. We got by them all in one stroke. Speaking of which, different folks and different...
One of your best reviews! I've never heard anyone talk about pulling over on large bikes like that--and eventually you will. Also the one thing that bothers me on the light (475 lbs) Katana is the steering lock--I dropped it once because of that. I sat on one of those BMW K1600s once, the dealer had a really good deal on a demo. The engine was so cool, like nothing I had ever felt, and all the tech was fascinating. But at the end of the day, I felt it was just too big and the thought of maintenance (circa 1k valve adjustment) and just getting it to the place pushed the practical me away. Because in the end a major attraction for me to motorcycling is practicality.and minimalism.
Mr. BRM, thanks for all your very high-quality motorcycle reviews. I've watched a host of them for the past four months, and they've been truly informative. Since I'm considering purchasing an ADV bike, I try to pay close attention to your reviews since I'm confident that you will provide an in-depth and fair-minded review of them. Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate the honesty in your reviews. Everyone can make their own decisions based on their own requirements and experiences, but I like how you point out your likes and dislikes. Always well balanced and informative reviews. Thank you.
People often mistake opinions for honesty--they are not the same.
All that said is why I decided on the '21 Gold Wing instead of the _"Break My Wallet."_ I also own a '22 Africa Twin and enjoy them both, as they both own their element. But there is no way the AT matches the GW on long highway trips. If you're doing a 150 miles of pavement to get to your trailhead on the AT, fine. But 600 miles to the coast and back for a weekend of beach and seafood demands the Gold Wing hands down.
Which one would you pick if you were riding 250-300 miles per day primarily on back roads over a 3,000 mile trip?
@@markheinig If I were doing 250-300 miles/day on reasonably good pavement, back roads or not, definitely the Wing. But if by "back roads" you mean poorly maintained (i.e. patchy) payment or any possibility of dirt/gravel roads I'd go with the AT. The 21" front wheel on the AT helps cure many road ills.
@@eyesonly4451 In my tours thru the western US, most of these roads have been decent/good pavement. Since I'm riding roads I'm not familiar with, I sometimes happen upon patchy pavement that varies in (lack of) quality and length; however, a bigger problem for me has been road construction. Some of those projects are long enough that I'd probably want to be on an AT.
It depends. I owned a GL1800 for ten years and sold it when my failing knee could no longer safely support it. I bought a cheap small Japanese cruiser to ride until I finally got my knee replaced. Now I own a KLX300 and a KTM890 Adventure and have owned a BMW F850GSA so I think I'm in a good position to compare touring bikes to ADV bikes. And "it depends". If I was still pounding out 500 plus miles days mostly on super slab or still had dreams of a Four Corners ride I'd have another Gold Wing in an instant. Now my needs and goals have changed. My wife doesn't ride with me so road trips together in good weather will be in the Miata. I no longer have dreams of knocking off a 30 day four corners tour by myself. So the dual sport and the ADV are perfect. They add a new dimension to my riding. I have really enjoyed learning the new skills required and feel that they have made me a better all around rider. A relaxed one day adventure or dual sport ride is, to me, more enjoyable than a one day highway trip. So for me, now, an ADV bike is a much better bike. If my wife rode with me and long trips on the bike as a couple were a possibility then I'd be at Honda dealer picking out a new Gold Wing in an instant. If I was trying to keep up with my son in-law on his 1290 Super Duke then I'd be buying a sport bike. An ADV bike does have to make compromises to be a good do everything bike. A purpose built touring bike, or sports bike, or cruiser, will always be better for what it was built for. So what is a better bike "depends" on what you want to do with it.
And by the way my Gold Wing never felt as heavy or as hard to get into and out of the garage as that 850GSA.
Inappropriate subtitle was one hilarious moment my childish sense of humor appreciated on a Monday night after a long day. You summed it all up and couldn’t agree more with it. Later in life it will be a Goldwing that I may consider, but wouldn’t count on it because of the comfort of the ADV bike.
I had a 2008 R1200GS, a 2016 R1200R, and now I ride a 2022 R1250RT. I’m 6’5” and 230. Even with the tall version of the GS, I’ve noticed very little difference in the comfort of the riding position between the three bikes. If the weight is such an issue, then the RT would have been a better choice since it actually weighs the same as a GSA with luggage. My GS on its dual sport tires was not much better on dirt and gravel than my RT, and if you were to go with more aggressive tires, the RT would win hands down on the highway.
I love my KTM and my wife's Himalayan, but when it's time to cover some serious ground, I have my pride and joy; a Harley Ultra Glide Limited. Briefly, I've ridden with cruising BMWs and so many times they complain earlier and more often than I do about their comfort. I won't get a Goldwing because I'm allergic to plastic and am terribly afraid of buttons. The deciding factor was my wife. She spent years, seriously, finding her perfect back seat and the Harley won out by a long shot.
Yeah, I don't look forward to roadside shops with gravel parking lots and narrow roads with soft shoulders, but the difference between a 850# bike with a 26" seat height and a 550# bike with a 30+" seat is minimal in those conditions.
But yeah, if the law allowed us just one bike, I'd keep the KTM and be better prepared for the inevitable zombie apocalypse.
;)
S
Currently have a Concours14, ElectraGlide Ultra and an old F650GS…. They’re all so different but all so much fun. I still miss my 2010 GS1200, went all over the country on that bike and it was an amazing touring bike. And tough as hell. Rolled her several times off road and she was still running upside down… pushed her back up and rode off. One of my favorite all time bikes in 47 years and over 30 bikes… I will have another one. That being said, I love any and all bikes. Each one has its own personality.
I have a ‘21 Goldwing Tour DCT. After putting 16k miles on it so far, I will always own one. It does 90% of what I want to do. I also own a BMW Racer. I love to just look at the Racer. But I’m always on the Goldwing. I love the long maintenance intervals and lower cost maintenance of the Goldwing, plus I really enjoy Apple’s CarPlay on it. 10% of the time I wish I had an ADV bike. But I would never make the switch. I think the handling on the Goldwing is incredible. I think it handles better than the lighter weight RT. Maybe if the Super Tenere gets updated, I will add that to the stable. I prefer lower cost maintenance bikes, that don’t involve too much time with bike maintenance.
I'm interested in the Goldwing too, but changing its air filter has to be one of the most time costly bike maintenance items there is.
@@markheinig I bought a maintenance package, where they come to your house, trailer it to the dealer, and do the required maintenance then deliver it home. It was $1500 for 3 years. I think it’s a great deal, if you plan on putting a lot of miles on it.
Otherwise, there are sets of videos on TH-cam you can get, that will walk you through all of the maintenance on the bike.
@@jeremynachbar3205 That's a sweet deal and a slam dunk.
I just road my GSA from Arizona to Pennsylvania and back. I have a Road Glide, but was glade that I took the GSA instead. The GSA is much quicker, smoother and more nimble. There were a lot of poorly maintained roads and road construction that made the GSA the perfect bike for the trip. At one point a semi truck moved into my lane as I was passing another semi. The trucker didn’t see me and didn’t mean any harm, but I was forced into the shoulder rumble strip. Once I passed the trucker and he finally saw me he slowed down and got back in the right hand lane. With the GSA’s narrow profile, ability to handle rough surfaces with loose gravel I was able to pull away with a smile on my face.
If you're just one-up, a smaller bike is definitely more attractive to me. And, having a bike that can handle some off-road is really nice. Being able to take that dirt road a little further for a prime camping spot is great. Something in the 800-1200cc range with 80/20 tires is the sweet spot for me in terms of power and lightness to be able to handle things alone if the kickstand sinks into the mud and I have to pick the bike back up. You mentioned not liking tie-downs, but having a bed roll right behind my back can really help on the longer rides.
Ian, I was on the fence between the GSA and RT. This video helped me make the right decision for me.
Picked up my GSA today and could not be more pleased.
Thank you for the exhaustive content. You are a tremendous resource.
Ride safe.
You gave this dude 10 bucks and he didnt thank you?
Pretty much. I understand the time demands of running a channel but would have been considerate.
Hardly watch his channel anymore.
Try the R1200RT. It gets sports touring right in all the places you have an issue with.
I totally agree...I owned the K1600GTL for a year and traveled through California and Arizona. But once I rode a friend's GSA and then traveled on it. I was sold and traded in the GTL and bought the GSA. As far as my back and legs are concerned I'm 6-2. The Gsa is way more comfortable traveling on and 150 pounds lighter making it an all-around excellent ride for the city and traveling. There is a reason why you go to any BMW dealership and see how many used GTL's and GT's sitting on the lot. For the age group who buys this kind of bike or can afford them....they are just too heavy.
Very good! Agree totaly with you. Traded in my Honda ST 1300A, 320 kgs, for a T7. Im back enjoying riding like I havnt done in years. Just being able to park anywhere, without having to worry about a bike so heavy that I couldnt roll backwards uphill.
Although, the Goldwing has a backup gear...
@@youtubeaccount9058 So true! The Pan European was a nightmare pushing around.
I still have my ST1300A. I will never sell it.
Great review and you hit all the key points I thought about. In the adventure class the manufacturers need to get onboard with creating more touring oriented versions of these bikes. For example Honda created touring version of Africa Twin (NT1100) that for whatever reason they chose to cheap out on suspension by reducing travel and quality (no automatically adjustable version) . Also, don't underetand why no version released for U.S. market.
I’m currently riding a ‘16 R1200 GSA. Absolutely love it. The only bike that could get me off it is the Goldwing Tour DCT. However, being 6’2”, I can’t imagine that the Wing is comfortable over long distances. Hence, I’ll probably upgrade my GSA sometime down the road.
I owned a 2005 Goldwing for ten years. I'm 6'2" also and would ride 600 mile days. It's comfortable.
The Honda goldwing DCT is my dream bike
Now imagine… a GS1250 with Honda’s DCT 😅 or the RT1250 with DCT ❤
I ride a Victory Vision which is a similarly large and heavy bike. I ride 2 up with my wife regularly. This is the one and only motorcycle I have ever owned. I purchased it last spring and I've put over 15,000 miles on it. Your video was insightful, great info and well produced.
I have a concours 1400 as my daily driver. Been daily riding for 10 years and the last 3 years has been on the concours. The best part is the value. I paid $6,000 for a low mileage concours. It’s basically a car with its luggage and wind protection and comfort compared to other motorcycles.
I still think about trading it on for an early model Africa Twin but I don’t think the AT will be as good of a daily rider as my C14 with the winter months coming. Having an electric windshield, heated grips and massive fairing on the C14 is a huge benefit.
I have a C14 bought it exactly for the same price you paid with low mileage and it has been great. I compliment it with a 2012 500EXC for enduro and off-roading. Perfect combo imo and for my needs. Go find a 500EXC used and try that. You'll pay less in total than selling your C14 and getting an AT (assuming new). You'll have two excellent motorcycles that do, independently, a much better job for their role than the AT would do as a combo. My C14 runs circles on the street around an AT and my 500EXC does the same on dirt. And they are cheaper to get and own. No brainer for me.
@@C_R_O_M________ lol hey we are one in the same. I have a plated WR450F I’ve been riding Dualsports forever. I daily drove a KLR for 2 years at one point.
My Stable has always been a street bike and a Dualsport for the last 5-6 years. KLR, DR, Drz, XR and now the WR. Paired with a Z1000, Fz09 and now the C14
I just want the AT for adventure touring.
Being over 80 years old I’ve had to buy a bike that will do anything I need it to. Long distance touring, town riding for shopping, occasional off road rides, fuel economy, easy maintenance, easy servicing, total and utter reliably,and most important to me….light weight. My ideal bike and current ride is HONDA CB500s. This one will see me out!!!!!
I totally agree with your assessment on the weight issue. I own both a ‘20 H-D Street Glide Special (roughly 850lbs) and a ‘20 BMW R1250GS (roughly 560lbs). At roughly 300lbs lighter the GS is so much easier to maneuver in tight spaces, it’s not even comparable. With the HD I never ever forget about the weight. Moving it around my garage or driveway or a parking lot and let it get just a 1/2” off center and she’s headed straight to the ground and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s extremely difficult to wrestle 850lbs that wants to fall. And if you are successful you’ve likely pulled something in your back, neck, or even your knee. Better off to let it hit the ground and then use proper technique to pick her back up. There’s a reason all HD touring bikes have engine guards, because she WILL be on the pavement sooner or later. You are also correct about the heavier weight and high speed travel. When on an interstate at highway speeds especially with a crosswind the Street Glide feels more planted than the GS. Strong wind and the GS really feels like she’s getting pushed around and requires more corrective input. Not a deal breaker by any means but it is simply physics. Lighter weight, taller profile, shorter wheel base, and sharper rake means it’ll feel more squirrelly in those conditions. You are also absolutely correct about the shock travel. I have upgraded the HD with Legend suspension front and rear. The rear shocks gave me almost an extra inch of travel. Even so the Street Glide gives a fairly rough ride. Better with the Legends but still rough. You will feel every bump in the road. The GS is far smoother. In fact on the small stuff you almost don’t feel it at all, whereas the HD I would definitely feel it. Not too bad on local rides but when the mileage of touring gets up there (say 300 + miles) you are ready to get off the HD. All that said the benefits and advantages of the adventure bike are undeniable. And if pressed and I could only keep one it would likely be the GS. However I’m fortunate that is not the case, because the Harley Davidson has a character and personality that is unparalleled. There is just something about riding an HD that is intangible and difficult to explain. Almost as thought they are an actual living thing. The rumble, the vibrating, the roar, and the amazing aesthetics are unique. So I ride them both. I live in the east but if I were touring out west I’d prefer to be on the GS. Not as big an issue east of the Mississippi.
Good post. Thanks for writing it out.
I totally agree- I had a Dyna low rider S and GSA to have the best for the city and everything else. Now that I currently have an empty stable, hard to decide which one to get first.
My Goldwing was the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. The bars were raised, which made it perfect for standing up on gravel roads. I had a backrest and highway pegs for setting the cruise and leaning back. The radio was nice, and with a few pieces of over-priced plastic under the mirrors, I was completely shielded. Then one day I realized I was driving a heavy 2-wheeled car. All it lacked was an air conditioner! It handled like a drunk elephant in store parking lots when people would step out in front of me. I traded it in, and only miss it on cold mornings.
The bulk and weight of my FJR1300 , my first tourer, is what finally convinced me to sell mine after a few years. I didn’t do much interstate travel, so it was really ill-suited to my needs as well. Now I’m back on a 1250cc naked bike, and couldn’t be happier.
I’ve owned a Harley Ultra, BMW R 1200 GSA, BMW K 1600 B and now have a RT 1250. Harley was great but heavy and the suspension was bad. The GS was very comfortable, but didn’t have the best wind protection and the heat of the engine would cook my legs . The K 1600 was everything thing Big rock said. My 1250 Rt has been incredible. Not as comfortable as the GSA, but has the best wind protection of any bike that I’ve owned. At times a little too good on hot days. The motor is excellent with good torque. I wouldn’t trade it for anything else currently.
362kg this is insane... literally insane, I would be scared riding this thing.
My 2013 Goldwing was 390kg, I never dropped it but anyone else that rode it did. The crazy weight was always there ready to bite you in the ass.
They work better than you would expect.
Lots of harleydavidson's are about the same.
@@robertkollath8929 Yes but atleast their center of gravity is quite low and it makes tremendous difference.
@@jowarnis I think you don’t grasp the definition of ‘insane’ and/or ‘literally’.
First of all touring bikes are not for going off road. For example when Honda designed the ST 1100 they did that primarily for the European market with the aim of being able to tour the continent all day, 2 people up @ 100 miles/hour. I.e. covering vast distances fast. Think German Autobahn. In my experience once riding weight is not that important. Center of gravity is. And I believe this is one of the problems with the K1600, the center of gravity sits too high. To me the BMW Boxer makes a much better touring bike. As does the ST 1100. Both bikes are heavy yet do have a low center of gravity. Which, again in my experience, makes them bikes that are easy to ride, even in city traffic. If you want to cover vast distances reasonably fast in all weather I believe nothing beats a touring bike. That's why most police forces tend to use these kind of bikes for most of their patrol work. I do own a BMW Boxer, an ST 1100 and a VFR. I like all 3, but the ST 1100 is the most comfortable. And to me that makes up for the weight. Also weather protection is very, very good.
I have both and love both. The one thing my tourers have that my adventure bike doesn't is far superior fairing protection from the elements - which is tremendous when it's cold or raining.
That's less an issue with any kind of decent adventure gear. Places like rocky mountain even offer inexpensive externally waterproof gear with vents when you want them.
Oregon rain was no issue other than my gloves which were summer gloves specifically with perforations for ventilation.
Wind gust protection is a rider fatigue saver.
A lot of people ignore sound, but that's a big factor I consider. (Even offroad, my MX friend noted how much less wearing it was sound-wise when he rode my dr. It was _almost_ too quite, but it's nice to not need earplugs at all at that speed.)
Just buy a Naked bike
I've owned the Versys 1000, the Ténéré 660, the Caponord 1200 and ridden the 1200GS quite a bit. 2 years ago I switched to the 1250 RT and I haven't looked back since. All I ride is tarmac, and on that front the RT is simply amazing. For me: muuuuuch better wind/rain/cold protection than trailies, lot easier to manoeuvre at walking speed than the higher bikes (weight lower down, slightly lower seat), comfort, fun, grunty and super practical (cases but also radar, heated seats etc). Where I agree with you is of course suspension travel, but not just that, I think the telelever system plays a part in how some cracks feel. I'm 6'1 and in the seat's high position my bad knees are fine.
To me it seems your video is about the K16, not the 'touring bike' family as a whole.
My biggest problem with touring bikes is the size as well. While I would prefer a nice touring bike for my riding style, it has gotten to the point where the touring category has gotten way out of hand. For me my favorite touring bike was a BMW r60/5. It was a heavy machine but the weight was all reasonably low. It was reliable and was able to carry enough 'stuff'. It was comfortable. It handled 'rough roads' well. For me the focus for touring bikes has shifted from 'will it get me home' to 'will it provide me uberluxury'? For me there are just too many whiz bang gizmos on 'touring' bikes in the modern era. But then again I an a dino, so there is that. I also have gone to the R1200gs for most of these reasons, even though I do not need all the clearance and the bike is way to heavy in my opinion, but still lighter than most touring bikes. I just wish the focus were on 'lighter and reliability'. I do not need to take my living room with me on the road. But then again gotta sell what folks are buying so there is that.
I have listened to many of your videos, and I think you do a good job. Your video of the BMW K1600 was clear from the start you don't like it. A good review never starts out with negatives. Your preference is Adventure bikes, that's ok and I can understand why, but I think your review was too critical, I have traveled on the 1600 allot and it has many great qualities. It sounded as if you have a standard of what a bike should be or do and if it is different it is expressed as a deficiency. The windshield buffing you experienced I have never experienced; the seat height can be adjusted and even the handlebars, and that is on any bike. The 1600 has great torque pull, carries the weight of two riders easily, is smooth running, and reacts like a jet fighter if you crank the throttle full open. The leg position is a product of the seat height yes, but most people riding this bike can't ride more than two hours without a stop anyway. Again, I like your work, I think you cover the performance and features of the bike you're reviewing very well. On this review I felt it was a bit unfair, it makes me feel there was allot of bias present. I'll keep watching, I believe you're doing a great job.
This is a great discussion for me because I’ve only driven Ultra Classics and find them very comfortable. My preferred riding is 2k to 5k long distance trips mostly highway and mountain. The UC is very comfortable for me at age 65. I live about 40 minutes from The Dragon and have plenty of fun scraping my floorboards in the corners. Last, I was born in Milwaukee so Harley was one of those most likely to purchase bikes for me but I owned Yamaha’s when I was younger due mostly to my budget. I will also add that the Harley Dealer network gives me a lot of peace of mind if I were to break down. I looked at the Bm’r you reviewed and found the ride position uncomfortable as well as ride hight and the smaller wheels concerned me. Maybe I’ll stick with my Harley which is likely my last bike anyway.
I ride a ‘19 Ducati Multistrada 1260S and a ‘23 Goldwing Tour DCT. Both are very good at what they do best: the Multi for fast, shorter trips that include some light off-road duty; the GW for long distance, carefree riding-even through punishing Mojave desert wind-with some twisties thrown in because it’s surprisingly capable. The Multi is about 300lbs lighter but then you’re rolling, the much lower center of gravity of the GW really hides the weight difference. And moving around the garage, the GW is actually a little less prone to tip-over anxiety.
Agreed! Sold my touring bike (HD Electra Glide Ultra Limited) a couple years ago and can’t wait to get my Pan America!
Yep, which is why I traded my Honda ST1300 (painted in Whale Grey) for an Africa Twin. There's just no way the big tourers' suspension systems are as plush as my AT with some adjustments. The ST was top heavy, had brutal shaft drive lash, poured heat, and tended to wander. The AT is simple, comfortable, very stable, can take a load, and goes off road pretty well.
Loved my AT for short distances. Got a weird resonance from that engine at cruising speed. Drove me crazy.
Hey Ian! Always enjoy your video's. Very informative!!!!
I have been on sport touring since 2004. In 1997 I started on a Honda nighthawk 750 and rode that bike for 8 years. I never took a trip longer than 3 days. Great starter bike.
In 2004 I bought a Kawasaki Concourse. Loved that bike. I had recently semi-retired and managed to ride 7000 miles in 5 months. But a young lady took out me and Connie and she was totaled.
The spring of 2005 I bought a Yamaha FJR1300! Wow! Awesome sport touring bike. I also bought a BMW R1100S later that year.
Then in 2006 I plead temporary insanity by getting a naked as my primary motorcycle a BMW K1200R. I kept that motorcycle for 4 years and added a 2007 BMW G650Xmoto to the driveway.
In 2010 I went back to sport touring to a 2005 BMW R1200ST. Really nice lightweight barebones sport touring. I put some miles on that bike and recently had a single motorcycle accident and she was totaled.
I have always thought about Adventure motorcycles, really strong market now with middleweight ups to Heavy weights!!! I've test rode the GS 850, GS1200 and Ducati Multistarda 1200. All nice.
I concluded I would probably not go off pavement, but if my final retirement finds me in East Tennessee, Adventure moto will be the ticket.
After rehabbing last injury I was looking at 2 used BMW's a 2015 R1200RT $12,600 or a 2016 R1200RS $12,400. I was leaning toward the RS because it is lighter.
I agree with you on the weight factor.
Then, a 2013 Triumph Trophy SE 5,200 miles came up locally for $8000 plus taxes, etc. and I bought that one. She is heavy at 660 pounds, has more gizmo's that I've ever had on a motorcycle, looks like a BMW, reminds me of the FJR just a little.
Looking forward to putting miles on, finding new rode.
4 wheels carry the body, 2 wheels drive the soul!!!!!
I've always lamented the decline of sports tourers in favour of ADV bikes, but the points you make are valid. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been drooling over a KTM 1290 Super Adventure S for a few years now also.
That said, my idea of a sport tourer is more on the SPORT than touring. The likes of the Ninja 1000SX or the GSXS1000GT, for example. In those cases, the weights are more comparable and the use case for such bikes are also more fine tuned. Still, would I pick either of those over a 1290 SA? Maybe for the price savings.
Just a guess, not here to offend: pillion passengers, primarily spouses, secretly prefer to be in the comfy seat of a car.
I think most of the things you disliked are stuff that you'll eventually get used to and learn to deal with. With the proper technique, turning radiuses are a non issue. Even some riding over dirt roads is doable, as a friend of mine often does with his 60k miles Ultra Glide Limited.
I own 2018 VStrom 1000 and thought about getting touring bike for 2-up riding but I do that at most 10% of the time. The benefits of an adventure bike being more nimble, sporty, lower cost with superior suspension and better ergonomics far outweigh the subtle niceties of a tourer. If I wanted I touring best experience I would probably buy a sporty convertible.
I think that you hit the nail on the head there. Its all about how you would use the bike, what sort of riding, who you ride with etc. The k1600 is an absolute machine, but I do love the adventure bikes as well.
The R1250RT seems like a much better option for a touring bike.
Have a 2013 R1200RT and it’s pretty sweet though I’m thinking it’s not the bike for me
Having ridden for 43 years on the road I've found that even though I'm tall and strong I just don't like big heavy bikes. With the deteriorating roads surfaces on todays road my BMW R1200GS Rallye with the ESA sports suspension, which is firmer and has more travel than the standard, nearly is ideal, solo, or two up for the roads I ride. Being tall I agree 100% on most bikes being too cramped for tall riders with long legs another reason I like the Adventure bike. In the desert west I don't like the weather protection the big fairings of the touring bikes offer, you need airflow to keep cool. The only feature I would like from the touring models is the central locking for the cases. At the end of the day it's all horses for courses, we are all different shapes and sizes and ride different roads, one solution does not fit all.
That thing looks like a behemoth, and I ride a Road Glide Limited. Absolutely love my GSA and if I would trade out the RGL, it might be for an RT - seems to be just the right combination of size, weight, handling, and tech for a strictly road tourer.
I love my 2022 RT. Nimble, technology, adequate power, and quiet precision.
Have a 2013 r1200rt and it’s a phenomenal bike. Best bike when it comes to a dedicated road tourer imho
Smaller lighter bikes for me! Did 25 hrs of saddle time in two days on a KLR 650. The nine inches of suspension travel more than makes up for the seat.
at what point do you buy a car
Bigger is not always better. The Goldwing is the Lazyboy of motorcycles; I know of nothing more comfortable. But these bikes are heavy. Even the adventure bikes are heavy. Six hundred pounds is not light, and the bike is taller. Sometimes I feel like I am riding a two story building. I lived on a street touring bike for nearly 20 years' it was my sole transportation for five. I'm pushing 70, and feel like I need to size things downward. Not crazy about moving to 3 wheels unless perhaps a sidecar rig. I've seen some crazy adventure sidecar bikes. I like being able to stand up on the bike. There are many features I like about the adventure bike, but they are so damned tall. I'm thinking more along the lines of a scrambler.
I went from 3 Adventure bikes in a row to a K1600GT in July. I miss the light weight of the Adventure bikes, but at 5'10", I always had issues with the height. Fixed the height issue by going to a GT, but now I have the weight to contend with. Not a huge deal, but I definitely agree that I am more cautious when coming to a stop and slow speeds in a parking lot on the GT.
I had the GT too. I came from riding Harleys, so I was used to the weight. I think Ian would like the GT better. As for his wanting to ride off-road, a GSA will do that and long range touring too.
I owned this bike. When I test rode it, I fell in love with it. Its a touring bike for sport bike guys in my opinion. That engine is amazing and the sound is incredible!
I went on the highway a few days after buying it and set the cruise on 78 mph. The bike was all over the road, especially when passing or following big trucks. I started researching the issue and its a common problem. One approach to dealing with the excessive buffeting is to remove the trunk. There is a guy who makes a really nice trunk delete kit for these. Well, you obviously lose the storage and it didn’t really solve the problem. I traded the bike shortly after. Real bummer. The bike is incredible and does well in the corners for it’s size. It will wheelie, too. I hope BMW has addressed the twitchy ride.
I have a Harley tourer but I have felt the same as you on it, it cant go off road, and thats a major drawback.
I have a R 1250 RT and I go off the paved roads from timt to time. Only turned back once when the surface turned into soft sand! The streets here in Austria are full with BMW GS and most of the riders will not be able to handle this heavy beast in hard offroading. I enjoy the comfort and weatherprotection of my RT. Most of the time I ride with my wife, we’re doing about 20kkm a year which is about 13k miles and she absolutely loves the RT.
That last one really resonated with me. I have a sport touring bike and I want to get an adventure bike next so I don't have to turn back when encountering unpaved roads. Whether I will end up doing much off roading I don't know, but it would be great to have the flexibility.
I think you are 100% correct. For long distance touring the RT checks nearly all your boxes.
When talking about 'touring bikes' here in Italy, we refer to the likes of Kawasaki 1000SX. Behemots like the one in the video wouldn't even be able to negotiate a basic hairpin turn on a mountain pass. I agree though, there's a reason why bikes like BMW 1250GS and Africa Twin outsell pretty much everything else.
I can't picture myself ever owning a big touring bike for the reasons you stated, but I wouldn't lump all sport touring in with them. I'm very happy to have a great sport touring bike (Sprint ST 1050) alongside my ADV, and I'd like to keep it that way. Any trip that I don't plan to leave pavement, I'd rather be on the Sprint, and I find the sporting riding position comfortable in its own way - I sometimes call the Sprint my chiropractor. It weighs 100lbs more than my ADV (V-Strom 650XT - maybe not a real ADV to some but it's never failed to get me where I want to go) but I only notice the weight when lifting off the side stand, it's every bit as nimble in a parking lot at low speed, and it transitions into turns *so* much quicker than the 'Strom with the 19" front. I'd lose something if I gave up either of them so I'll happily keep a sport tourer and an ADV (and a dual sport for true dirt shenanigans) in my stable as much as I'm able.
I rode a Honda Goldwing across the United States and in between. I rode for 43 years touring. one thing that i learned was to always change the seat and handle bars to fit me custom . never buy a bike and ride it without fixing the handlebars and replacing the seat for a better feel and reach.
I started watching you when I was trying to zero in on what bike to get, and I am still here, months after buying my new bike. Great and thorough reviews!
Hey, I need to jump in here and say that real off-road is not possible because 95 % forbidden in Germany and maybe middle or central Europe.
So such bikes are real road bikes and in my area nobody would think about going off-road with such a bike here.
Lucky Ian has the dessert or nice off-road next his living area and can enjoy the ride through sand, mud or gravel. So I fully understand his opinion swapping such a bike to a adventure bike. Me riding the GS 1200 with street tires because of the reasons said at the beginning.
How on earth did you manage to allow the politicians to forbid you access to nature? Because you certainly can't hike or carry things on foot for big distances. One of the many reasons why the US of A is still the favorite destination for immigrants from Europe. BTW, I'm in Europe too, just not in a country that forbids us basic access to nature and off road riding. That would be Greece.
Thanks Ian, great review and so much knowledge, experience and wisdom from avid motorcycle riding viewers. Thank you all! 🏍. . .
Thanks for a very comprehensive review. I’ve also owned a number of bikes and currently own a Ducati 1260 Multistrada, a Versys 1000 and a VFR800 8th gen. As I get older I enjoy lighter bikes with more safety features. The are also much easier to handle than the FJR1300s, ST1300, and earlier Goldwings I once had.
Key point “lighter”. As I age, the harder to negotiate those big heavy bikes. Even my super Tenere at well over 500# . I agree with Ian 100% - adv tourer bikes hands down more practical. But, I don’t ever carry a pax.
This genre is just too big and too heavy for me. One may as well buy a convertible. The older I get, the more I appreciate a small, lithe bike.
Thanks for the review.
The K1600 is a specialised bike. It works well for touring tarmac, and visiting places served by flat car parks. It’s defining features are the barn door screen, the cavernous panniers, wrap around pillion seat and that big six engine.
The R1200/1250RT is better proposition if you want all the comfort but want to shed some of the weight.
The S1000XR is the sports bike on stilts and is much more of a riders bike but you are starting to give up the pillions comfort.
All models have options that will sort out seat and peg height so don’t let that put you off. Taller riders will need to make adjustments to any of the tourers to get closer to the leg room you get as standard on tall adventure bikes.
I’m currently on a Multistrada. The engine note is a bit more exciting than the BM’s, and it’s a bit lighter. It’s got the same lockable luggage but it’s all optimised for lack of weight rather than quality, comfort and convenience. I’m tempted by an RT which might be the sweet spots in the range but is nowhere near as popular as the GS.
It’s great to experience heavy weight bikes. I recently rented one in California. But they really are optimised for a very narrow set of use cases. As the author says even pulling off the tarmac and dropping on to dirt at the side of the road for a photo and riding back over a lip of tarmac to rejoin the road takes planning and careful riding.
Thanks again for the review.
Although I do get your points, I do think it's a very American-centric view. Dirt roads / offroad trails are very uncommon in western Europe. The roads are generally also a lot better - i.e. the more stiff suspension makes sense in a European context.
But you don’t really have long stretches of road that support owning a big touring bike.
Agree, the GL1800 is a hand full at the end of the day. The new 2018 + is much better, but it is a challenge after a couple hours. Even on an "easy" cruse have to rest after 90 min or so. Not bad but not a couch either. I'm looking at ADV's. And yes agree these heavy bikes are tricky in loose dirt at slow speed. Not something you want to drop on a dirt or gravel road. If you are going to National parks etc. you will have some dirt or gravel to traverse.
When I left the states I sold my Goldwing, and moved to the Andes in South America, I found my riding needs were far different. Steep mountain roads, some hard surface and much of my riding is an adventure biker's dream. At times a 125 dirt bike seems to be the best choice but i also wanted lots of luggage and carrying capability. So I finally settled on the Royal Enfield 411 Himalayan. The low end power makes easy work of climbing dirt hills under load, crossing streams and the weight gives stability on the highways and secondary roads under any load conditions. And it has a fun factor that the touring bikes just don't have. Down here I have as much muddy road conditions as I do hard surface and that is why the Himalayan is becoming quite popular. It was designed as a work mule and reminds me of a Jeep with two wheels. My needs are not weekend pleasure riding, but rather daily riding going to market and transport of produce and such with my wife and I. A touring bike for me would just not be of much use.
It sounds like you are using the bike as an adventure bike and not a touring bike, which is why you prefer an adventure bike.
What you notice at 2:45 is not necessarily always an issue. When I went from my sports bike to an adventure bike, I thought my turning radius would be much reduced due to the steering lock being much wider. However in practice this was not true at all! After thinking about it a bit, it makes sense.
The key is, your turning radius is not determined by the steering lock or how far your front wheel can 'tilt'. The turning radius is purely determined by the intersection of the axis perpendicular to the wheel. That means if your wheel can 'tilt' less due to a steering lock, you have a larger turning radius. However, if the distance between wheels is increased, it too increases turning radius.
In practice this increase in wheelbase was enough to have a practically identical turning radius to my sports bike. Although I can imagine that with such a big touring machine as the K1600 you get both AND a long wheelbase AND a reduced steering range.
I think he was referring to a turning radius on a parking lot or situations like that. In low speeds/walking pedaling you sit upright and really steer with the front wheel like in car. In higher speeds, you steer by leaning.
@@vojtal182 What I am describing is mostly applicable in slow speed situations such as parking lots. The reason why a motorcycle leans at speed is to balance gravitational forces with centrifugal forces. I.e. lean angle is dependent on corner radius AND speed.
@@tHaH4x0r Ah, I didn't understand your post on the first reading. I think we agree. Or at least I agree with you :)
I have both the 1200 gsa and the 1600b Grand America. Absolutely different bikes, but I love them both. If I'm with my wife, the 1600b is by far my wife's and my favorite. Solo, i love them equally. If going in the dirt is the only option. GSA all the way. It just depends on your preference for a ride. Ride your ride. Nothing else matters.
Always enjoy your videos. I have a 2012 BMW GTL (GT and GTL ride is different than the Grand America), riding paved roads for 9 years. Love the bike and the setup is very comfortable (for me). I’ll continue to use it for 2-up riding and for day rides with others on similar bikes. This year bought a 2022 GSA 1250 and love getting off pavement. Have some long solo trips planned (AK next summer, BDR’s) over the next couple years that will include off road, so I’ll be on the GSA for all longer trips that are not 2-up. Nice to be able to choose “and” rather than “or”. Each bike for its own purpose.
The concern about going off-pavement is very valid; how many tourist attractions, AirBNBs and other places have gravel drives and - more importantly - would you feel the need to check all such things when planning a journey? And what if you see a sign for something interesting a few miles off your route, only to find the pavement ends halfway there? Worrying about the weight would bar much of the random adventure that makes touring so great.
I rode Honda Goldwings for years. Sold my 2014 Wing and bought a 2019 Kawasaki Versys 1000. I love the lighter Versys and feel it is as comfortable as my wing with about 300 pounds less weight.
I get what you're saying. I would frequently do a 400 mile ride on my GSXR750 and people would say "how can you do so many miles on an uncomfortable bike?" But I wasn't uncomfortable. I think height, weight and level of physical fitness play a huge role in what bike serves someone better than another. At 5'10", I was always right at home on pretty much every bike, but was also more comfortable up/over the front wheel than behind it with my legs out. It just feels very dangerous to me and I don't think i can relax.
Toured cross country on an r1200rs. It's a sleeper in the bmw line up. Added an aeroflow shield and wings. Huge difference in protection and comfort. If your average height..5'9"ish, give it a try. I have been on all the others the weight and reach to the ground was always a problem. Add bar risers and don't plan on taking a passenger. The rear seat is way to high and small.
I'm currently on a challenger and at 71 finding it heavy. That said once you're moving it's fine. I've been looking for something lighter, demoed several and have not yet found something i'd want to live with, yet. I'd like to see a RS but around here there's none to see let alone sit on and demo. I'm curious for us older riders just how comfortable it is for hip/knee position. I'm 5'9", 30" inseam.
@@davewilton3101 Hi..I am 68 and agree with you, heavy is not a friend. Had a tough time with the old RT and GS. About 5'8ish 155 pounds. The RS is like a bicycle at slow speeds. The weight is low and never got in trouble while trundlng slowly. Was ok with the neck and arms after the bar risers, and the peg placement made it super easy to stand while riding. Not many in the dealerships here as well. i actually purchased mine in Ft Collins and rode it back to Jersey after a week touring with a buddy.
Bought a 2019 K1600 GT after riding it from San Diego to Seattle. Instead of dropping it off to its owner, I purchased it and rode it back. I’ve put 9000 miles on it in 4 months including another trip to Oregon. I find most of the comments you’ve made to be contradictory to my own experience. I am 5’6”-170 and have chronic back issues. Even after 7days of riding, one-way and 5 days of riding the other way for a total of nearly 4000 miles, I felt very comfortable with no pain or fatigue at all. The previous owner of the bike then bought a GTL and I rode with him to Oregon with him and then back for another 9 days of riding round-trip. One of the side roads I took was gravel and then dirt. I found the intimidation factor to be very high in regard to not wanting to dump the bike, but the ABS and TCS were exceptional, and I never felt like I was in danger, in regard to traction. unless I went down a steep incline. The bike is quite heavy as you mentioned but it feels well balanced. Strategic planning keeps me from getting into a situation we’re I’m at a disadvantageous angle. I find myself able to make pretty tight U-turns in my parking structure and I’m not sure if you noted that taking the rider seat off exposes a clip in adjuster that will give you more seat height just by flipping it over.
At one point I rode a K1300S (road) and a KLR650 (dirt). While the K1300S was simply an amazing bike, it was too narrow-focused. The KLR was the entry-level for dirt but really a dog of a bike. I replaced both with a 2016 1200 GSA and haven't looked back. I briefly considered a K1600 GT when I retire from dirt but one I learned how heavy it was I eliminated it. Ian hits all the points here. The big GSA has better ergos, plenty of power, weighs less, does more and is super nimble thanks in part to the low-slung boxer motor.
It's rides better off-road than the KLR ever did, and is easier to pick up despite the greater weight. One thing Ian failed to mention - an Adventure bike with crashbars suffers no damage in a zero-MPH fall. Plastic covered touring bikes don't fare as well. I was terrified of my K1300S tipping over, as a single side-fairing panel cost $1000. Crazy. GSA FOR THE WIN!
Another great video . For me it is all about the seating position setting more upright and not having my knees bender it sharp angel. Adventure bikes just are more fun to ride.
Great video!! I totally agree with you in every aspect you mentioned. Two years ago i bought a GS and before that I had a PanEuropean, and also did quire a lot of kms on a RT. I must say would change the GS for anything. In a perfect world with roads with no holes an no bumps, and given that you don't like to get off the asphalt from time to time, maybe a tourer makes sense. Where I like to ride there are all those things I mentioned before, and more important, twisties, and for that (in my humble opinion) an adventure bike a better choice.
But no matter what you ride, a motorcycle is a motorcycle. Have a lot fun and stay safe. See you all on the road 😉
Curious if Honda brings the NT1100 to North America, and if that helps solve the "gap" between tall and off-road focused adv bikes, and the "touring" ones that suffer even on light gravel road usage. Always going to be trade offs as a low and heavy bike can haul gear and eat up the highway miles far more comfortably than a taller and lighter one: just a matter of finding a sweet spot that fits your riding style.
We’ll have to see how their new transalp pans out. Outta be perfect if you don’t do any two up riding
@@talltale9760 feels like a middle ground between a proper AT and a NC750. Too light for here in the high rockies sadly; when the towns in the valley start at 7,300' elevation and it just goes up from there + 30-40 mph gusty cross winds, those light and lean bikes get really sketchy on the highways.
A fair review. I wish and I could own both. In any case, I’ve now got a set of 20 inch arms from lugging the FJR around garage.
The majority of seniors in the group I meet with ride touring, cruiser, of sport bikes, never rode on gravel/dirt/sand only on pavement. They have never been on unpaved roads and the fear of dropping their heavy bikes, and God forbid, scratching up chrome or paint is unbearable. Most of these bikes have 70,000 plus miles on the clock and are in showroom condition.
I agree with you 100%. It is a nice bike, but it is also very limiting with regard to where you can go and what you can do. Conversely, the big GS Adventure, which is what I ride, is more than comfortable enough for the highway, but still leaves me the option to head down some dirt roads when I want to.
We all have our biases, both aesthetic and consumer. We also have personal preferences which are evident in the video and comments. I own a K1600 GA and have been riding several different styles since the 80s. I’m 6’0 and over 50 yet have no knee, hip or back issues on 3000+ mile trips. I also live on 1 mile of a dirt and soft gravel road. The GA certainly doesn’t handle like an adventure bike off road, but is easily manageable if you are familiar with the bike. This video is well done and offers excellent insight to someone who can’t try out several bikes themselves. But, in the end please choose what makes you happy, not someone else. (Just my 2 cents)
Hey y'all from Alabama... Hey Big Rock... Love the content, I ride an Africa Twin and I love it because like you said it's versatility, but I still like watching your videos and getting your opinion, see you down the trail