It's encouraging to hear that there was a time and a place where true gay community could be formed in bathhouses. I have visited bathhouses all over the world. Unfortunately, I have never experienced the sense of community that this sexy older man is describing. I really wish that kind of environment existed everywhere. That said, I am in the US, and my best bathhouse experiences have usually been outside of the country. The only exception being Steamworks in Chicago. In the US, most bathhouses are dirty, old, and unkept. Plus, the men who attend only come for sex then leave. No social interaction whatsoever. However, I have enjoyed deep conversation and real sexual connection with individuals at most bathhouses across Europe and South Africa.
I agree that there is more of a friendly vibe at the overseas baths. The bathhouse here in Toronto is also called Steamworks, but haven't been to the Chicago location *yet*
''However, I have enjoyed deep conversation and real sexual connection with individuals at most bathhouses across Europe" I just did yesterday in London 29 Endell Street Covent Garden!😍
I love how this was not just a fun chat about kinky sex and a way to personally connect a little bit with you both, but also an important history lesson that can help my generation and younger to appreciate what we have now and how privileged we are in some places. Thank you so much for another beautiful episode.
Thanks for noticing that, Gabe! I had been toying with this topic for awhile and wanted to do it in a way that honoured the history. Tim was the perfect choice as my guest so big thanks to him as well.
Loved the cruise ship disclaimer at the beginning :) This was mostly said during the call: In the 60s-80s, bath houses seemed to be more of a gathering place and social setting for gay men to socialize and form fellowships, in addition to the obvious sex taking place. Now, and since the apps sprang into existence, they seem to be meant for quick-fix sexual gratification with strangers or a place where the lonely, forgotten and depressed go to be accepted. If not that, then it's used as the "Group activity" where a group of friends arrive together, separate to play, and then go home together. Either way, it's swept under the rug and kept separate from one's daily life whereas in the past I think it was much more mainstream.
Great summary. I only know what I know from my perspective of the baths in the last 10-15 years. I wish I could have experienced that era you and Tim speak so highly of. PS: I put the cruise ship disclaimer at the beginning for my mom because I knew she'd think it was about her kind of cruising...🛳😅
I remember my first time in a bathhouse...Hollywood Spa 1977.....a special event for an 'innocent ' Australian....thanks for this interesting podcast Michael and Tim...James
I think the most important part of the discussion was after 52 minutes, when they talk about risk. The risk of crystal meth, “chem sex”, as related to people new to the community, such as youth and immigrants. A friend of mine who has immigrated from Syria got caught in that culture and it destroyed his life. He had no idea now dangerous it was and didn’t have the language skills yet to understand the dangers.
I really enjoyed and appreciated having an elder of the community on your podcast today. I know you guys always say "collectively you have 40+ years experience" but there's nothing like actual long time experience like having men like Tim onboard and hearing their stories. I'd love to see more elders on your podcasts.
Good episode. I think cruising has "intent" for some kind of sexual encounter, where sharing glances and smiles on the street is more like "flirting". As for bathhouses, they all have different cultures - some are more playful than others. I was at one in Vancouver where it was like guys were going to miss their bus (frantic running around peering into rooms and no one playing). And like he said at the end - mostly people play and then take a break.
The first bathhouse I went to was in Toronto. No one told me to bring footwear. I stubbed my toe on the stairs and then stepped in goo. Only to freak out when I realized that the toe was openly bleeding! It took 6 months of patiently waiting for test results before I could be seuxally active again...
@@fireandice6805 -- No, this is patently not true. "Most" gay men do NOT die of AIDS. It affects a small minority of gay men. You are either spreading misinformation or making up lies. Either way, stop it.
Don't know about the American regulations, but in Germany the prescription of PREP requires a monitoring for STDs every 3 months - and rightly so. That said, I love analogue cruising. Following a suspicious trail into a small forest or some dunes, and suddenly the hetero-normative veil is torn and you're in another world. It's really surprising how sometimes you click with someone you wouldn't describe as "my type" - and sometimes you simply don't even though there's Mr perfect right in front of you - so even if all app profiles were true, you could still end up with just no chemistry. Also, in my experience, "no" is accepted at any point - I've never ever had anyone going aggressive even if already a lot had happened and I realized that the particular combo didn't work out for me then.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's great to hear about the proactive health measures in Germany regarding PrEP. Your experiences with cruising highlight the importance of consent and the unique connections that can form in unexpected ways. Your input adds valuable context to the discussion. 🌟
I am loving these podcasts - Thank you. I am not a user of Facebook and many realms of social media..... is there a way or regional space to have these conversations out loud, in person, face to face....as primates, having the ability to communicate with micro-expressions and language as we were able to do at a bathhouse did allow for more truthful interactions.
GOOD needed point. The closest I know of strangers coming together for more meaningful gay Convo, are these gay men going deeper monthly zoom podcasts Let’s support these guys and continue to be the caring expressive men we are and seek.
One of the hottest times was hooking up in the college locker room shower. It was so freakin hot, but its been at east 5 years since then and I've been married the whole time. I've never been to a bathhouse before intentionally, and now I'm very curious about it. My husband doesn't want me fucking around, and I respect his wishes, but I'm getting so crazy thinking about what a slut I am and always trying to commit to what is otherwise quite a heteronormative relationship.
PLEASE talk about (1) does this promote caring love or only add to hook-ups and self-centeredness, and (2) talk about the spread of disease and their likely harm to men on HIV meds....
I became sexually active in the late 70s, several years after "losing my virginity". A gay guidebook said there was a bathhouse location a few miles from where I was stationed so 1 night I mustered the courage (not knowing what to expect) and went to my first bathhouse. It was in a building that had once been a neighborhood movie theater. My visit was kind of short, as the attendant at the door had quickly decided he would "enjoy" an obvious newby...and I was still a bit freaked by the whole idea. I overcame my nervousness and returned several times over the years. Unfortunately, being in the service made me too paranoid to develop many lasting relationships. Having visited bars and bathhouses all over the U.S. my experience is that both establishments fall into 2 major categories: grubby/unkempt buildings in the more rundown parts of a city, and those in which the owners obviously spent time and money they knew they would earn back with welcome customers. Yes, I might have wanted to spend more time with the men I met there, but paranoia ruled my thoughts for most of my life. I will say that nearly all my bathhouse experiences have been at least decent...bars? not so much.
Thanks for sharing your experience. There's definitely a range in the establishments that's for sure. Personally, I enjoy the ones that are kept well. Also depends on the clientele though too and it can differ day by day
A public park means that park also belongs to children. I’ve always been very disappointed in my gay brothers for this. Do it in private with other adults
Bathhouses are a very antiquated concept. What was once considered a “safe space” for gays (Although were they really safe from all the disease) are thankfully disappearing because why? The apps are not so much about anonymity as the bathhouses were…and are equally as wreckless and prone to diseases. We are equipped with sexuality…but we are also equipped with self control…and I see this as nothing more than gluttony at this point. There is also a BIGGER RESPONSIBILTY to the community as a whole because the LGBTQ community has constantly been referred to as nothing more than sex. I view this as bigger than my own sexual appetite. To each their own…but no thanks!
![พบรัก - INK WARUNTORN x FELLOW FELLOW [LIVE SESSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1VonHhP6_Y8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W3D1 | Fall | สัปดาห์ตัดสิน ทีมไปไฟนอล](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZBU3GyzqErI/mqdefault.jpg)
It's encouraging to hear that there was a time and a place where true gay community could be formed in bathhouses. I have visited bathhouses all over the world. Unfortunately, I have never experienced the sense of community that this sexy older man is describing. I really wish that kind of environment existed everywhere. That said, I am in the US, and my best bathhouse experiences have usually been outside of the country. The only exception being Steamworks in Chicago.
In the US, most bathhouses are dirty, old, and unkept. Plus, the men who attend only come for sex then leave. No social interaction whatsoever. However, I have enjoyed deep conversation and real sexual connection with individuals at most bathhouses across Europe and South Africa.
I agree that there is more of a friendly vibe at the overseas baths. The bathhouse here in Toronto is also called Steamworks, but haven't been to the Chicago location *yet*
That explains why Bette Midler was discovered in a bathhouse, different environment back then.
''However, I have enjoyed deep conversation and real sexual connection with individuals at most bathhouses across Europe" I just did yesterday in London 29 Endell Street Covent Garden!😍
Excellent video and beautiful way to pay tribute to a man who has contributed sooo much against the HIV/AIDS/UU fight. SOLIDARITY ❤️
Tim really is amazing. I'm so grateful he's contributed his insight and experience to our podcast.
I love how this was not just a fun chat about kinky sex and a way to personally connect a little bit with you both, but also an important history lesson that can help my generation and younger to appreciate what we have now and how privileged we are in some places. Thank you so much for another beautiful episode.
Thanks for noticing that, Gabe! I had been toying with this topic for awhile and wanted to do it in a way that honoured the history. Tim was the perfect choice as my guest so big thanks to him as well.
Loved the cruise ship disclaimer at the beginning :) This was mostly said during the call: In the 60s-80s, bath houses seemed to be more of a gathering place and social setting for gay men to socialize and form fellowships, in addition to the obvious sex taking place. Now, and since the apps sprang into existence, they seem to be meant for quick-fix sexual gratification with strangers or a place where the lonely, forgotten and depressed go to be accepted. If not that, then it's used as the "Group activity" where a group of friends arrive together, separate to play, and then go home together. Either way, it's swept under the rug and kept separate from one's daily life whereas in the past I think it was much more mainstream.
Great summary. I only know what I know from my perspective of the baths in the last 10-15 years. I wish I could have experienced that era you and Tim speak so highly of. PS: I put the cruise ship disclaimer at the beginning for my mom because I knew she'd think it was about her kind of cruising...🛳😅
I remember my first time in a bathhouse...Hollywood Spa 1977.....a special event for an 'innocent ' Australian....thanks for this interesting podcast Michael and Tim...James
I can only imagine what that was like... you always remember your first time, as they say...
Hollywood Spa was the best bathhouse! For me anyway.
I think the most important part of the discussion was after 52 minutes, when they talk about risk. The risk of crystal meth, “chem sex”, as related to people new to the community, such as youth and immigrants. A friend of mine who has immigrated from Syria got caught in that culture and it destroyed his life. He had no idea now dangerous it was and didn’t have the language skills yet to understand the dangers.
Absolutely, and I think more can and should be done by these establishments to educate and mitigate risks.
I really enjoyed and appreciated having an elder of the community on your podcast today. I know you guys always say "collectively you have 40+ years experience" but there's nothing like actual long time experience like having men like Tim onboard and hearing their stories. I'd love to see more elders on your podcasts.
I'm elder and I'd love to know you...
Good episode. I think cruising has "intent" for some kind of sexual encounter, where sharing glances and smiles on the street is more like "flirting". As for bathhouses, they all have different cultures - some are more playful than others. I was at one in Vancouver where it was like guys were going to miss their bus (frantic running around peering into rooms and no one playing). And like he said at the end - mostly people play and then take a break.
Thank you! "Cruising" has an intentionality to it that is much more than the casual, eyes-meet flirting on the street.
The first bathhouse I went to was in Toronto. No one told me to bring footwear. I stubbed my toe on the stairs and then stepped in goo. Only to freak out when I realized that the toe was openly bleeding! It took 6 months of patiently waiting for test results before I could be seuxally active again...
Omg that sounds awful! What a freak accident. I'm glad you're okay ❤
Your lucky you didnt get AIDS. Close call. Most gay men die of aids before reaching old age.
@@fireandice6805 I’m 60 and survived. Lots of my friends died but the majority survived.
@@fireandice6805 -- No, this is patently not true. "Most" gay men do NOT die of AIDS. It affects a small minority of gay men. You are either spreading misinformation or making up lies. Either way, stop it.
Don't know about the American regulations, but in Germany the prescription of PREP requires a monitoring for STDs every 3 months - and rightly so.
That said, I love analogue cruising. Following a suspicious trail into a small forest or some dunes, and suddenly the hetero-normative veil is torn and you're in another world. It's really surprising how sometimes you click with someone you wouldn't describe as "my type" - and sometimes you simply don't even though there's Mr perfect right in front of you - so even if all app profiles were true, you could still end up with just no chemistry. Also, in my experience, "no" is accepted at any point - I've never ever had anyone going aggressive even if already a lot had happened and I realized that the particular combo didn't work out for me then.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's great to hear about the proactive health measures in Germany regarding PrEP. Your experiences with cruising highlight the importance of consent and the unique connections that can form in unexpected ways. Your input adds valuable context to the discussion. 🌟
I remember some of my friends used to go to the bath houses they always tried to get me to go there and I always said no I didn’t like those places
I am loving these podcasts - Thank you. I am not a user of Facebook and many realms of social media..... is there a way or regional space to have these conversations out loud, in person, face to face....as primates, having the ability to communicate with micro-expressions and language as we were able to do at a bathhouse did allow for more truthful interactions.
Thanks for listening Kevin. Even the 3 hosts (myself, Calan and Matt) have only met in person all together ONCE.
GOOD needed point. The closest I know of strangers coming together for more meaningful gay Convo, are these gay men going deeper monthly zoom podcasts Let’s support these guys and continue to be the caring expressive men we are and seek.
I have never ever have done anything like this before
I miss them😢
Great discussion - thanks!
Really glad he mentioned Meth addicts- I know someone ruined by this and he was going to baths/clubs and got pulled in -very SAD.
One of the hottest times was hooking up in the college locker room shower. It was so freakin hot, but its been at east 5 years since then and I've been married the whole time. I've never been to a bathhouse before intentionally, and now I'm very curious about it. My husband doesn't want me fucking around, and I respect his wishes, but I'm getting so crazy thinking about what a slut I am and always trying to commit to what is otherwise quite a heteronormative relationship.
PLEASE talk about (1) does this promote caring love or only add to hook-ups and self-centeredness, and (2) talk about the spread of disease and their likely harm to men on HIV meds....
And they did! 😀
I hope you enjoyed the end product
They returned to the issue of caring a couple if not a few times.
Way to much guys, don't you have anything else to do. In the first place why would anyone be so foolish?
Silly!
This episode in essence is the true meaning of a stereotypical formality that is dangerous in its existence 😎🇺🇸
I became sexually active in the late 70s, several years after "losing my virginity". A gay guidebook said there was a bathhouse location a few miles from where I was stationed so 1 night I mustered the courage (not knowing what to expect) and went to my first bathhouse. It was in a building that had once been a neighborhood movie theater. My visit was kind of short, as the attendant at the door had quickly decided he would "enjoy" an obvious newby...and I was still a bit freaked by the whole idea. I overcame my nervousness and returned several times over the years. Unfortunately, being in the service made me too paranoid to develop many lasting relationships.
Having visited bars and bathhouses all over the U.S. my experience is that both establishments fall into 2 major categories: grubby/unkempt buildings in the more rundown parts of a city, and those in which the owners obviously spent time and money they knew they would earn back with welcome customers.
Yes, I might have wanted to spend more time with the men I met there, but paranoia ruled my thoughts for most of my life.
I will say that nearly all my bathhouse experiences have been at least decent...bars? not so much.
Thanks for sharing your experience. There's definitely a range in the establishments that's for sure. Personally, I enjoy the ones that are kept well. Also depends on the clientele though too and it can differ day by day
A public park means that park also belongs to children. I’ve always been very disappointed in my gay brothers for this. Do it in private with other adults
Bathhouses are a very antiquated concept. What was once considered a “safe space” for gays (Although were they really safe from all the disease) are thankfully disappearing because why? The apps are not so much about anonymity as the bathhouses were…and are equally as wreckless and prone to diseases. We are equipped with sexuality…but we are also equipped with self control…and I see this as nothing more than gluttony at this point. There is also a BIGGER RESPONSIBILTY to the community as a whole because the LGBTQ community has constantly been referred to as nothing more than sex. I view this as bigger than my own sexual appetite. To each their own…but no thanks!
Isn't this how Aids started?
No.
@@WellismoCoaching Where can I find resources/info on this? :) (belong to the younger generation who is ignorant about this stuff)
Meanwhile… HIV rates are *STILL* through the roof in this community! But this reckless behavior is applauded and celebrated?!