I think they were sharing a consciousness but the drastically different experiences were meant to highlight how much Elizabeth’s sense of self was tied to her physical appearance resulting in each version coming off as their own independent identity. Kinda like when you cheat on a diet and you feel resentful of yourself the next day. It’s not like a different person made that choice but in the moment people can act in very conflicting ways. I interpreted their split as a dramatization of that.
Woof, these guys absolutely missed this. I mean the movie makes it so clear with "you are one". I'm blown away that they didn't catch how everything they are saying that would make the movie better, is literally what the movie is about. It's self-hate. It's addiction. It's post high regret
@thephobie i'd like to think they were sharing a consciousness, and i just missed a detail that made it clear. however, if we take an example of Sue being on a talk show where she is saying Elizabeth is a relic, Elizabeth is shocked by it; i never got the idea that she had already lived that moment or was party to it. likewise, Sue was shocked to see that Elizabeth was binge eating during her week. either way, it's the only flaw in an otherwise perfect movie. A-
@@adamwood87 I hear you but didn’t think it was out of place. Again, Sue and Elizabeth represent two parts of the same person in conflict with herself and their individual thoughts and experiences are narrative abstractions of those perspectives in the moment. It doesn’t make sense if you take the fantasy literally but you aren’t meant to as it’s supposed to artistically represent a certain experience. That being said I can see how that could throw someone off on a first watch when you’re trying to figure out the logic of the world. Full disclosure I’ve seen this film 8 times haha.
Yeah, it was interesting how they were one until they weren’t anymore at the end. I feel like both of them being awake at the same time was needed to fulfill telling that story of self-destruction but the film had to break its own rules to do it.
I guess I interpreted it a little bit differently. I thought her consciousness did transfer. When they first transferred, you travel through the tunnel and see the flash of gold in Sue's eye. I took that as Demi's consciousness transferring. I think she does experience Sue's life during the week (I think of a Venn diagram with a shared mind) but her self hatred, inability to embrace aging or see any value or worth in herself, creates this jealousy of Sue, but a compulsion to keep living through that body. I am a 57 year old woman, so that may impact how I interpret. Amazing movie though!
You’re not wrong. It’s presented in a way that her mind could be in Sue’s body or Sue has branched off and is her own person. There are signs of both interpretations and I think there is room for both. Great point about the tunnel and flash of gold. Where it got muddy for us was when they were both conscious at the same time at the end. Made us completely question the transfer. Thanks for commenting!
@hardcutreviews Elisabeth & Sue are different versions of the same person. Separate bodies, separate consciousness. Impossible to think anyone could survive this experiment well, no doubt the makers of The Substance are monitoring everything that's happening & are collecting data on how long it takes before the subjects flame out.
@@hardcutreviews at the end they are still the same person, a person with split personality and self hatred but the same person and conciousness that's why she is able to give birth to ELİSASUE, which had both personalities. it's all the same mind just sick and putting forth a different persona due self hat and madness.
I definitely think they shared a consciousness but that Elisabeth was in denial because of how she abusing herself every time she took too much time being Sue which is why she sort of dissociates and starts calling her ‘she’
I get the sense that the director left the consciousness part ambiguous on purpose. By being ambiguous, we get to speculate, discuss, make it a huge talking point, that leaves so much to interpretation. Sort of like when you look at a surreal painting. You never get a direct answer from the artist, it’s more about what the art piece made you feel and what you see. You get to input your own life experiences and perspective onto it, and come up with your own take. Having said that, I also wanted clarity in that regard haha. But the lack of clarity didn’t ruin the movie for me. I still loved it. And my take is, since Sue is indeed made out of Elisabeth, much like a clone, she does start out with Elisabeth’s knowledge, and mental baseline, but as she begins her life, it’s a separate experience. They’re fragmented and separate entities at this point. What does Elisabeth get out of that she keeps it going? I did wonder the same thing coming out of the theater. Because why would it be worth it, if she’s not living it herself in any way. But it made me think of the mothers who enter their little girls in beauty pageants. How they do it, because they would have wanted that for themselves, and the dream of getting that “pretty girl” treatment. Because they keep doing it, even if the one getting the pretty girl treatment is the daughter. I think it’s a representation of the sick relationship some women have with themselves in terms of beauty and self acceptance.
@@hardcutreviews I also wanted my questions answered 😂 But since no answer, I had to think on it, and that’s what I arrived to. I can’t recall who said it, but I think it may have been Cronenberg. It went something like “I don’t make movies to give you answers. I make movies to give you questions and make you seek the answers”. I definitely felt that with this movie.
At least THE SUBSTANCE got recognition in France. As for Hollywood Award potential possibilities could be either. Award for veteran actress, award for practical effects, or award for best movie of the year.
That’s because it was independently released by way of Mubi, originally Universal was going to distribute the movie, but they backed out on account of the content straying from their usual norm
If they were not sharing a consciousness, then the scene at the dinner where she interacts with the old man would not make sense. The old man knew who she was in terms of his younger clone being the one who introduced her to the substance. I think the movie treats them as two different women because that is how Elizabeth feels.
Yeah we were completely on board with that until they both woke up at the same time. This one consciousness shifting back and forth between them is now 2 separate ones. So I’m guessing it split like her body did, but at what point did that happen? Did the terminate fluid cause it to split at that moment? Definitely need a second viewing to pick up on everything we missed the first time. Thanks for the comment!
@@hardcutreviews I think that because the rules were being broken, with the abuse of time allowed, and the resentment and self-hatred, it was simply a situational abomination, before the physical one we get near the end of the film.
You're kidding? The movie's entertaining, but it's one of the most UNORIGINAL movies of the year. In fact, amongst the myriad of films that it rips off...um...homages...the main plot is basically The Picture of Dorian Gray, but women.
There's Oscar buzz for this movie right now for Demi Moore and the makeup categoy. It will be quite a shocker if Demi Moore gets a nomination for this especially after the infamous snub for Toni Collette for Hereditary, but I hope it happens. She deserves it
What is the correlation between Toni Colette/Hereditary and Demi Moore/The Substance? Why does Toni being snubbed make Demi potentially being snubbed more probable?
I love how both of them started to hate each other, even though they're the same person..That's crazy , But it was very interesting to watch and experience.. 2 sides of the same coin , very double think. You're 19 yr old self vs your 60 yr old self..
Demi didn’t KNOW that the drug would physically create a new person for her younger self… she was probably expecting to just appear younger, but had no choice when that didn’t happen. Great video, & I’m grateful you guys watched the grossness for me- I love these crazy movies, but am freaked out by blood.💚
The way I see it, they do share a conciousness. They are experiencing the feeling in the moment it happens, that is why Elisabeth couldn't give up Sue. Maybe Elisabeth was acting exactly like Sue when she was younger, hungry for success and fame, these are women in 2 different time periods in their lives, so one acts as a 20 year old and Elisabeth like an older more experienced woman would. That is the reason why they seem like 2 different people, just like we couldn't imagine acting the way we did in pur teenage years for example.
@@hardcutreviews same, so many girls I know have asked me if I've seen it and I'm like "you've seen it?" Its great when a movie this fucked up appeals to everyone. Then there's Joker 2, which appeals to no one.
She doesn't get to live "Sue's" life, but she does indirectly get to enjoy the benefits of it. I'm certain that luxury apartment cost a lot of money and Sue is the one keeping the payments up. LOL
They share the same consciousness. But now you have two egos, and Elisabeth hates who she is. "Remember, you are one." Elisabeth recognizes Troy on his bike, Sue says she does not want to go back into Elisabeth, they both use distancing language, but the representative reminds them that there is no "she" or "her", also, the director said they share a consciousness. That may make a rewatch more interesting when you view it from that lens.
I'm glad you reviewed this. Great film experience, a wild ride. I'm sad when I watched it, only 2 other people were in the cinema. Would've loved to be in a full room and hear all the reactions
Our theater wasn’t packed but there were a good number of people and they were having a blast. The whole place was going wild in act 3. Looking forward to seeing it again so we can see what we missed the first go around.
@@hardcutreviewsMy theater had at least 20 people and that was enough to have a good experience, hearing all sorts of reactions, from disgust, to ow, ew, awe, expletives, etc. it was probably the most engaging movie experience I’ve ever had at the theater. I also want to watch it again. I’ve never gone to see a movie twice, but this one deserves it.
It feels like they share a consciousness. When the biker yells at her, she's looking at him as though she remembers him from last night but now she's means nothing to him.
Yeah, at times it does and other times they keep it ambiguous to the point where it doesn’t seem like they share it at all. Just our interpretation of how it was presented.
@@hardcutreviews I know what you mean. I took the bad talk sue was directing to Elisabeth was a representation of her internal battle/hatred/self loathing. When sue first arrives outside for the first time as young, she's wearing the same yellow coat. Side note, I noticed that "sue" is the first 2 initials of the substance with e being the end. Loved your guys analysis.
I liked your take on this movie. I just want to express my opinion on this, as a fan of Coralie and her campness. I believe the movie's over-sexualization and the "in your face"ness of female body is intentional to reflect how the systematic male-gaze made women feel like about themselves and their body. Especially in the entertainment sector, the older the woman got = less jobs, less attention and less worth she gets from outside world. A person like Elizabeth, who was in that industry for a long time, would unintentionally internalize such values that the people reflect on her. She was not happy in her own skin. She wanted to be someone else, someone younger, better, more perfect. This was the mentality that she had when she took the Substance. This was the mentality that she felt, when she looked at the Sue body. She felt that she re-gained her Sparkle, when she thought she lost it. This was what the camera did, it wanted us to feel like we look at her from her own eyes, from her own perspective. Elizabeth and Sue, they are One, as the movie keeps reminding us. BUT they have different experiences in the outside world (ex. the neighbor incident), AND they see themselves differently in relation to it. This is why they were alienated from one another when the movie progressed. The different experiences, and self-hatred kept them apart, it became that invisible barrier between two sides of the same coin. This is why, this movie is a Feminist movie. Not because it has a female gaze, but because it tells the story from a woman's eye, which was -arguably- irreversibly tainted by the male gaze (well, maybe until the end of the movıe :p), and through the self hatred.
Really like your reviews guys would be great if you had a classics section, would be great to hear you 2 chatting about Robocop, Predator, Universal Soldier, Aliens, Road House, Reservoir Dogs etc ✌️
I interpreted it as they share a consciousness but Elizabeth has such an idealization of her youth that they essentially act like two totally separate people. They share each others memories but they hate each other. That’s why Sue really didn’t want to go back into Elizabeth’s body later in the movie, she dreads it because it’s Elizabeth’s sense of her own dread of her aging body
Did you review “Blink Twice”? Me and my girl liked that one and I am looking for more stuff like that. Any suggestions? I respect your opinions quite a bit.
There are a couple of things that could be going on with the consciousness part. The movie hints at it a little bit. There seems to be some kind of shared consciousness, as shown in the brief dream Sue had. While I wished Elizabeth and Sue shared a singular consciousness, based on how the movie presents itself, I think it could be interpreted as representing the shared human experience rather than an individual consciousness. During my first watch, I was yelling at the TV when Elizabeth refused termination, because it was clear she wasn’t living her life, and she had the final say in ending it. But after hearing this episode, I have a different thought. If we’re considering the shared human experience, perhaps she is so mentally damaged that she feels she has nothing to live for, like a kind of absurd sunk-cost fallacy. It feels as if each time she thinks about ending it, she sees the potential of her other self and then looks at herself. She feels she has no other choice but to continue. Also, whether it’s her job or society’s male gaze making her feel worthless, she felt this way even before she started using substances. This is a clear contradiction when looking at her situation from an outsider’s perspective-she’s attractive, successful, and still at an age where she has plenty of life ahead of her. But she doesn’t see that because that’s how everyone else sees her. You mentioned that we no longer care about the messages because of how attractive the women are, so I can imagine someone in Elizabeth’s position having no self-worth despite the reality saying otherwise. While she has agency, her agency does not exist in a vacuum without the world’s influence. Her self-worth lies in others’ validation, and when that’s gone, she’s left with self-sabotage. I think that’s true for some people in reality, especially women, who sometimes feel like if they can’t be young and attractive, they might as well give up because no one cares about them anymore without those desirable features. It’s a vicious downward spiral that I can personally attest to. Therefore, my interpretation is that this is a struggle women, and some men, experience. Instead of focusing on close-ups of actresses’ bodies, or whether their revealing outfits are a critique or not, I’d rather see it as a reflection of how the world largely functions. Another theory I have is that the body-changing aspect may be about surgical enhancements. Plastic surgery often has a positive effect initially, giving the patient a newfound sense of youth and perhaps a high from the renewed attention. But as the procedures pile on, the effect diminishes. Some enhancements aren’t long-lasting, like lip fillers or Botox. In the entertainment industry, this is all relevant, but even for everyday people, with the constant exposure to other people’s lives, we tend to think less of ourselves. We don’t see our own worth because we’re too focused on comparing ourselves to others, whether or not we consciously recognize how harmful it is. As ham-fisted, absurd, and excessive as this movie is, it raises many questions for the viewer to think about, and I believe that makes it a successful movie.
I think the ego thing is what trips people up. I read somewhere that if you woke up with another human being's perceptive mechanisms, you'd go insane. Everything would be different. So take this person who hates herself, transfer her consciousness into a different ego. It IS another person, but you're still in there. I knew she was having both experiences on the first viewing, but I understood what was going on better during the second viewing. The Substance phone representative is here to remind her/them/us that there is no other. You're in both egos, but they're like night and day. Ego is separation. This leads to self sabotage and ultimately self destruction
Definitely need to watch it a second time to pickup on some of that nuance. Might make more sense as to why they can both be awake at the same time at the end if there is only one mind being transferred back and forth. That was the thing that tripped me up and made me doubt everything else.
@@hardcutreviews There is so much going on that I think it can be easy to lose a few things while watching it. For instance, I saw it again last night and it totally dawned on me that there is only one scene in the movie where Elisabeth acknowledges she is the one who is doing it to herself. I won't tell you which scene.
I was able to read the script and while the movie doesn't do the best job of conveying it they do share a consciousness. My read was that as she starts to unravel she starts getting that mental crosstalk. Kind of like sober you trying to remember what drunk you was up to last night.
At the very least if they didn’t wanna start them with share consciousness, which I agree, they probably should’ve done…They should have just had Isabelle keep the memories of Sue, example, she would remember everyone looking at her with awe, because she’s so attractive or because she’s so famous or people kind of worshipping her or jealousy of her and it could be that feeling that she missed, even though she’s not seeing herself, she’s still feeling / receiving others look at her . That would’ve at least been something for her to hold onto, the same thing goes for an audience looking up to her at a New Year’s Eve party
It seemed at first like Sue was born with all of Sparkle’s memories and thoughts but as things went on they were obviously living their own experiences so the separation felt too wide. Then you get the scene at the end where they are both conscious at the same time. How does that works if it’s being passed back and forth between each body? Maybe it splits? Either way, still a great film.
@@hardcutreviews exactly, she went jekyl and hyde. Sue actually had Elisabeth's memories thats why she went straight for the dance job, withthe same ambition in mind and same obsession with how she looked. watch how she checked herself out and knew how to do the procedure. if shehad been a newborn girl she wouldbe a blank page. it was indeed the same woman but gradually lost her mind until it split into two personalities at war with eachother. sorry for long speech this is how I saw it.
@@richlasma We always assumed that Sue had the exact same memories as Liz up until the moment Liz took the drug, so they don’t need to share a consciousness to explain that aspect of it. She would still know how to do everything and have all the memories to help propel her forward in a way that made sense. Her ambition does match though, so you are correct. This world is also very focused and small. There is room for argument that Sue would have pursued that show regardless because of its reputation and status. I’m not trying to make up reasons for the view point we expressed in the video, just that everything can be looked at from multiple perspectives.
I’ve not felt this into a movie in a while. It made me feel excitedly anxious about what the hell’s going to happen next. I really got into it. You guys are right about it and I agree concerning the weaknesses-it needed to convey that they were the same person in order for it to all justify why she would keep going. It’s meant to represent vanity and public affirmation as a drug addiction. And it would have been so much stronger of a movie if they were actually one persona, then when Sparkle wakes Sue up from the attempted termination, that’s when her persona starts fracturing, representing how all this will “kill thyself,” yadayada-metaphors galore! 😁 Ah, so much to talk about with this one! 👍
I thought it was about plastic surgery. Women get it when their looks are starting to fade a little, get more and more as they get older and end up looking like muppets with no facial expression in their later years.
I think people are misinterpreting that Sue and Elisabeth aren’t the person, when the whole point of it was that they are. The guy wasn’t lying to her over the phone when he told her that they are one, they are the same person. Sue and Elisabeth do share a consciousness, but they are in two entirely different states of mind. Elisabeth is in a catastrophic state of depression- she has no compassion for herself or her body and zero sense of self preservation, as shown by the binge eating and filthy apartment. When she becomes Sue, she is a completely different state of mind- she becomes high. She is sexy confident loves her body loves her life. So when she walks into the living room to see what she was doing as Elisabeth in her depressed state, it *is* shocking
We can accept that they may share a consciousness but this was the one area of the film that they didn’t put in enough work to make it clear. Having them both be awake at the same time in the end kind of goes hard against that idea. Does the personality just suddenly split? If they are transfering their consciousness between bodies with the tubes then why doesn’t Sparkle pass out when she does it with Sue for the final time? They shouldn’t be awake and functioning simultaneously. Either way, it didn’t detract too much for how awesome it was.
Sue is the embodiment of YOLO while Elisabeth is relapse. It IS still her thats why Sue still has an idea what to do after she was birthed from the back. Theyre both aware of what theyre doing but at the same time hate each other for doing so. Thats why in my theory if Elisabeth loved herself more before taking the Subtstance, Sue wouldve been more respectful about the balance and also her older self.
Yeah that was how we were looking at it until the end. Sue began as a copy, someone with all of Liz’s memories and experience, but she then started living her own experiences that were distinct. Did this develop enough to the point where they could both be conscious at the same time? It didn’t feel like her mind had been copied over the way her body did. Interesting ideas to ponder.
@@hardcutreviews It is one consciousness, no copying, but when the two become split, I think that is a point of no return moment. She's going to destroy herself, she has completely split, there is no going back. I found that part to be very exciting
I f orgot to address my thoughts on Sue in the last comment. After thinking about it for a day, it strikes me as a bit strange that, despite having separate consciousness, Sue would immediately want to take Elizabeth’s old job. At first, I thought maybe she did it because the movie repeatedly emphasizes that they are one, and that’s why she went along with it. It’s possible the movie never fully addresses this. In a way, we could interpret it as a mother-daughter relationship, with Sue completing her “mother’s” legacy. Or, she might be so influenced by societal expectations, given her beauty and youth, that she feels it’s the best job for her, rather than exploring other avenues when given a second chance at life. I lean toward the idea that Sue and Elizabeth do share some level of consciousness. Otherwise, when Sue first wakes up, she should have been freaking out about the maimed body next to her and would likely have acted very differently. If we follow the idea that they are somehow the same person inside, Sue’s disdain for Elizabeth could be seen as self-hatred-resenting her own insecurities, narcissism, and self-sabotage, and doing everything in her power to avoid regressing back to her old self.
It would be so easy to right the wrong of two characters (which actually comes across as a mother’s envy of her beautiful young daughter) instead of a one consciousness in two bodies narrative. Elizabeth’s (Demi Moore) consciousness should transfer into Sue’s body, so Elizabeth gets to enjoy all the adulation; eventually Elizabeth can’t bare to go back to life in her own body and so begins to take longer spells of time ‘being Sue’, which fucks up her own body - as happens in the film as it is. There. It’s that simple.
In an early release viewing at my theater, with everyone there wanting to see it, people were laughing at the over the top stuff happening at the end. Such a good film.
To me it was quite "obvious" that "they" shared the same consciousness, which simply started to split in the second third in the movie. But that's just my guess. (This still doesn't explain the scene where "they" finally meet. A huge drawback for the movie, in my opinion.) There is a very good short story by the name of"The Lottery" by australian writer Peter Carey, which describes quite distinctively how a body swap messes up your mind and your perception of your self and your interactions with others. Anyway: Greetz from Germany! I think your reviews are well phrased, concise and funny as hell. As a gay man I especially enjoy the rainbow ratings and the impersonation of "the girls". For me it is quite harrowing what the"queer" culture has become and I think it is brave of both you to point it out, in term of contemporary movies. I do hope, that you will get more followers and you will be able to make more reviews over time. Personally I'd be looking forward to watch your reviews for movie classics (like "Die Hard", "The Godfather", "Taxi Driver" etc.) and your reactions on european Art-House ("Women on the Verge of a nervous breakdown", "Fox and his friends", "Cries and Whispers" etc.) X-)) Have a good time!
I think it would have been better if Demi's character remembered what she did as Sue but regretted it, like a bad hangover. As it was, she had no memory of it so had nothing to benefit from the process. She just ended up on the bathroom floor for a week.
I believe they are fully one Consciousness, it is said in the rules. The culprit here is the Ego which always has a constant struggle with the the true essence of any human being. Nice review guys!!! 🤩
Appreciate the comment! I think the rules are little vaguer than that. It tells them ‘you are one’, which you can say they are literally the same person, or that they have a symbiotic relationship where Sue cannot survive without Sparkle. If you abuse the stabilization rule, things go south. There is evidence that they share a consciousness but when they are both conscious at the end, it caused us to question that entire premise. How can they share and swap a consciousness if they are both awake and in control at the same time? They kept it vague enough that there is plenty of room for interpretation. Still loved it.
@@josephirizarry5195 Man, you left no stone unturned, lol. I can accept what you’re saying but I think where I keep getting caught and pulled back is that simultaneous consciousness scene. The more I think about it the more I conclude that film broke its own rules. You are one until I guess, you’re not one? If the experience pushed her so far that her mind literally split in two then it does ultimately create a separate and distinct person, even if it’s one mind swapping back and forth. If the film followed its own rules then when old Liz swaps with dead Sue, her mind would have gone right back to Sue and Liz should have passed out and they would both be dead, because Sue’s body was terminated so what did the terminator fluid do outside of nothing? There is a second where you think, ok she just killed this body but it’s rendered pointless a few seconds later. Instead, her mind chooses that exact moment to split, like her cells do when the experiment starts. It made me question everything I had just seen. A second viewing is definitely in order.
i think they do share a conscience but its more of a 3rd person perspective afterwards as shes aware of the selfish choices shes making when shes in her younger body, but when she is younger she doesnt want to give it up and go back, and its not until she does that she has to deal with the consequences of her choices.
It felt vague enough that it could go either way. There were signs of it until they were both awake at the end together and then we lost all confidence in that theory, haha.
Now… I want to see your review of Salem’s Lot (2024) there is one deal in it that I have a feeling you’ll loathe and the back and forth will be amazing!
Just in time. Saw this last night. It was Awesome. About a dozen other people in the theater, 5 people walked out before the end and I laughed so hard when a guy behind got up and almost started running down the stairs and just when I heard the door open the whole theater heard 🤮. Easily best and most disgusting movie of the year. Now you guys just gotta do TERRIFIER 3.
Interesting. This gives us more questions than answers, lol. Like, how could they both be awake at the same time if they are sharing a consciousness? It seemed like Sue was an upgraded clone who needed Liz’s spinal fluid to sustain her body. Everything got split but the mind, yet that wasn’t copied until that end, but only because the story needed it happen. Will have to dive deeper into this one.
I thought it was pretty clear. The movie reminds you of this. When Sue says "I can't go back into her" - she's distancing herself from what she hates. The representative reminds both Sue and Elisabeth that there is no "she" or "her" - there are also moments that remind you she is both when she recognizes Troy on his bike and is taken aback to how rude he is to her.
@@josephirizarry5195 Yeah, we are aware of what the film kept telling us. The voice on the phone hammered it home 100 times and the scene on the bike with Troy lended to that. The only reason we questioned what we were being told 100 times was because of the dual consciousness at the end. Definitely need to watch it again to pick up on some of the nuance. It just felt odd that her mind splits into two distinct separate entities but it only happens months after her body does. Does it not make sense why we might stop and question the mechanics of that?
Additionally, I didn’t understand the motivation for Demi to keep it going. She’s not the same person. She just gets the bad spine scar and disappearing for a week.
A lot of people keep telling us they were sharing a consciousness but they could have pushed that connection way further, especially since they are both conscious at the same time at the end. Either way, still a great film.
For me, the reason they weren’t the same consciousness ala remembering what the other was doing etc is a metaphor on how we torment ourselves when it comes to our younger selves. Like embarrassed by how we acted at a party, but too drunk to remember and hear about it or the aftermath. The film with Elizabeth is about self hate and it’s more interesting keeping her and Sue separate only to see what the other has done, yet like an abusive relationship they can’t give each other up. That was my takeaway.
I said two elements. My other element was the score - I’ve been thinking about this film since I saw it and I walked out realizing I saw either a hit film or a cult classic that people will talk about for years. I would’ve rated it a 10, but that’s me.
@@hardcutreviews agree! And that's what makes a great film or narrative - when it has something that makes you debate or reconsider - at least for me. Hell, people still talk about 2001 or The Shining due to some of its story elements.
10:40 .. THEY ARE ONE. It's one consiousnes switching bodies but in context of the body it feels drastically different so she blame her own mistakes on her other self while there is no other self. Sorry but they constantly repeat this in a movie .. r u dum dum?
I guess you missed the part where they’re both awake at the same time. Do you have the ability to question narratives and ideas? Yes, tHe MoViE tElL mE tHeY iS oNe. Congrats, you repeated what the movie told you. You’re not wrong, but how dare we question things when the movie breaks its own rules.
I'm not surprised you guys liked this, IMO it's the best movie of the year. Great performances all around and great execution. Enjoyed this review fellas!
Interesting, the whole time I thought they ARE sharing the same consciousness. It is just that the one consciousness became more and more separated. Or you remembered what you did but you don’t 100%. Like a hangover. Otherwise Sue would not know what to do as soon as she was “born”. Sue never get the instructions but Elizabeth did. It’s kinda like you had too much cocaine one night and you don’t even recognize yourself when you are high😂
Yeah at times there were little moments that they had a connection beyond the physical but they didn’t play with it enough. They could have really pushed that boundary. When they are both awake at the same time, that reinforced that they weren’t sharing one consciousness though. We might be getting too deep into the weeds on this one.
That is true. Was it your favorite film of the year? I agree with Matt and Bobby that it would have been better that they shared a conscience. Revenge by the way is great for anyone who hasn’t seen it.
OMG!!!!!! The movie said it 100 times. NO SHIT!!!! The way they were both conscious at the same time at the end kind of calls all of that into question. God forbid we actually question what the film is telling us non-stop. Films have never tried to trick audiences before. Silly us.
@@instructivesilence359 You can excuse away when a movie breaks its own rules however you like. Doesn’t change that it broke its own rules. I’m not saying you’re wrong. The movie was clear. But to continue the narrative the way they wanted, it required them to do something that cuts completely against the core rule of the film.
THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING THAT. WE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT, DESPITE THEM BOTH BEING SEPARATELY CONSCIOUS AT THE END AT THE SAME TIME… oops, my caps lock was stuck on. Sorry about that.
@@hardcutreviews sorry I was just frustrated. the woman is experiencing both lives and its her doing and saying all the things. her mind gradually gets sicker until there's total dissosiative disoreder. unfortunately the two personalities hate eachother as a result of her not loving herself. I'm a doctor specialising in psychiatry so maybe I saw things differently. but yeah that's my take, the lady is simply mentaly ill,by the end her mind gets copied and awakens in both bodies but since its a sick mind it still fights against itself.
@@richlasma It’s all good. You’re not wrong. That’s what makes this film so great. We were fine with the notion of shared consciousness until they were both awake at the end. Made us question everything that had come before, which, in our opinion, is what a great film should make you do. It’s easy to just say, her consciousness was copied or split in that very moment so it doesn’t contradict the previous 90 minutes of the film. We just had questions about that moment and the circumstances surrounding it. Appreciate you going further into it.
25:20 to 25:45 I notice that men reviewing this film don't really understand it. Whereas women seem to get it. These guys seem to have viewed it as a ridiculous horror movie. They didn't really touch on the overarching message here: the horrors of aging in general, particularly for women. The gratuitous shots the two men speak of are all there for a reason. It's pretty troubling that they didn't pick up on this. This film is clearly a parable about aging and going too far in hopes of preserving youth.
Of course we noticed it. We talk about it briefly in the beginning because it’s obvious what the commentary is behind the film. It’s not exactly hidden. We just chose to talk about what we liked about it and not get into a thematic analysis. That’s not what we do. We bs about movies. We don’t analyze them from a social commentary stand point. Also, it can have social commentary and be a ridiculous horror movie at the same time. They’re not mutually exclusive.
I completely disagree with the shared conscience you think would have been better. Separate people made jealousy and the abuses all the more potent. Besides, if Sue abuses Elisabeth for 3 months, is because it's not her and she doesn't have to suffer the consequences.
Yeah that’s a fair take. She can be jealous of any girl though. Her being jealous of Sue could have ended anytime she wanted. She was in control of Sue’s existence. We talked about it a lot in the review but it was just a small critique. The movie is still amazing.
The best review channel on TH-cam and the uploading is soooo slow 😮 Do you guys really need jobs 😂 I don’t need one so when I have to wait a month for your next video I raise my fist 👊 to the sky and scream my frustration at the heavens in rage 😤 🤣🎉
the best review i've seen for The Substance. fantastic movie, and you guys mentioned all the parts i loved, and the one aspect i thought could have been better. best film i have seen this year - until Terrifier 3 comes out.
Thanks, dude. Really looking forward to seeing this one again to catch all the little things we missed on the first watch. Terrifier 3 is going to be a hell of a ride, lol.
Yeah. Cause she’s talented enough to know how to tell a feminist story in a way that doesn’t annoy the shit out of a general audience like 99% of the garbage people call movies today. Thanks, Bev.
I think they were indeed sharing a consciousness… but they still couldn’t make peace with one another. That was kind of the point. I know her memory was hazy whenever she switched bodies, but I still definitely think she was enjoying the experience while in the Sue body. I think that’s a big part of why they kept reiterating “you are one.” Anyway, I’m glad you guys finally really liked a movie for the first time in a while, lol.
This movie is actually based on a short story called the new you by kit reed about a woman who buys a newer younger better version of herself in the mail and her new self turns on her and locks her in a closet most of the time. The old self slowly turns into a monster and mopes around the house eating and lamenting but I won't spoil the end
Oh my god. I was wondering how you could be misinterpreting this very unsubtle movie so badly, and then you said "woke" unironically and started bitching about women in movies and it all became crystal clear lmao. Should've done that in the very beginning and saved me thirty minutes.
Yeah that part where we praise the female director was a real shot at women. Perhaps you misinterpreted it because you can’t tell the difference when we knock incompetent women versus competent ones. Come back and waste 30 minutes any time. We love the channel engagement.
@hardcutreviews I'll share! Instead of criticize! The director said it's to mimic how woman scrutinize our own bodies, constantly measuring ourselves up to what men would find attractive. So while yes the close ups were "arousing" to some, it's actually sad that we reduce ourselves down to our body parts. But, T&A 🤪🎉 amiright 😃
@@abzasapx We know exactly what the intent of the director was. We bring it up in the video. Doesn’t mean it still didn’t fail. But keep telling men to not notice objective beauty in women.
I’m avoiding any spoilers for the movie and gonna watch the review after seeing it, but I’m assuming if you guys liked it that it doesn’t hit you over the head with feminism which was my concern lol
It’s present for sure, but presented in a way that makes sense to the story. The movie doesn’t pause to give you a message then picks up where it left off.
I could not get into this at all. It started out off putting and was all downhill from there... until it degenerates into stupid schlocky splatter-trash in the last 20 minutes. Also, this movie refused to end more than "Return of the King"...
Smh I stopped warching as soon as you two made clear you thought they were two whole different people. Its the same person in two bodies, same consciousness, the movie made that clear many times because why would anyone go through all that in the first place? She starts to disassociate, hates her old body for what she's become, and her younger body for having everything. Sue talking down on Elizabeth on tv is more real for her when she's spectating it from her older body. its self-abuse and sef-hatred and she was willing to destroy her real self just to enjoy her youthfulness again. She was just loosing it and blaming Sue as if she wasn't responsible for her own destruction.
In what ways did it make it clear? It made the opposite quite clear in a few scenes so we’d love to know how they are both conscious at the exact same time at the end if there is only one consciousness. Perhaps we missed the scene where they explained the mechanics of that.
@@hardcutreviews "Remember, you are one." When Elisabeth is Sue, she's like an addict on a binge. She has another ego, she is full of hormones, she is young and idiotic. Elisabeth clearly recognizes Troy when he's on his bike. When Sue realizes she has to switch with Elisabeth who has been completely drained, she says "I can't go back into her." She is one. Having two egos has only made things worse for her because she hates herself and it has caused a split.
I struggled to draw anything profound out of The Substance. I left the viewing feeling like I'd just watched an elaborately produced bikini commercial. The film doesn't say anything particularly interesting about desire, age or femininity. I really detest films which shove lots of flesh down your throat, and then pretend to have some grand pretext for debauching your imagination. 'The Substance' is a very close cousin of the 'X/Maxxxine' movies, which combine absolutely irrational scenarios with a script that has been lifted from an 'Archie' comic. The fact that some of this film's most ardent critics are intelligent young women, really says something too. If you look at Rodin's famous sculpture of the aging beauty, it says infinitely more about women and ageing, than this cheap sex-ploitation film. Read a Charlotte Bronte novel, if you really want to understand womanhood.
I think they were sharing a consciousness but the drastically different experiences were meant to highlight how much Elizabeth’s sense of self was tied to her physical appearance resulting in each version coming off as their own independent identity. Kinda like when you cheat on a diet and you feel resentful of yourself the next day. It’s not like a different person made that choice but in the moment people can act in very conflicting ways. I interpreted their split as a dramatization of that.
That's the way I took it too. Your 26 year old self would make different (usually bad) decisions that your 50 year old self wouldn't.
EXACTLY what ive been saying.
Woof, these guys absolutely missed this. I mean the movie makes it so clear with "you are one". I'm blown away that they didn't catch how everything they are saying that would make the movie better, is literally what the movie is about. It's self-hate. It's addiction. It's post high regret
@thephobie i'd like to think they were sharing a consciousness, and i just missed a detail that made it clear. however, if we take an example of Sue being on a talk show where she is saying Elizabeth is a relic, Elizabeth is shocked by it; i never got the idea that she had already lived that moment or was party to it. likewise, Sue was shocked to see that Elizabeth was binge eating during her week. either way, it's the only flaw in an otherwise perfect movie. A-
@@adamwood87 I hear you but didn’t think it was out of place. Again, Sue and Elizabeth represent two parts of the same person in conflict with herself and their individual thoughts and experiences are narrative abstractions of those perspectives in the moment. It doesn’t make sense if you take the fantasy literally but you aren’t meant to as it’s supposed to artistically represent a certain experience. That being said I can see how that could throw someone off on a first watch when you’re trying to figure out the logic of the world. Full disclosure I’ve seen this film 8 times haha.
They aren’t two separate people. They are one. The whole message of the film was about internal self destruction
Yeah, it was interesting how they were one until they weren’t anymore at the end. I feel like both of them being awake at the same time was needed to fulfill telling that story of self-destruction but the film had to break its own rules to do it.
I guess I interpreted it a little bit differently. I thought her consciousness did transfer. When they first transferred, you travel through the tunnel and see the flash of gold in Sue's eye. I took that as Demi's consciousness transferring. I think she does experience Sue's life during the week (I think of a Venn diagram with a shared mind) but her self hatred, inability to embrace aging or see any value or worth in herself, creates this jealousy of Sue, but a compulsion to keep living through that body. I am a 57 year old woman, so that may impact how I interpret. Amazing movie though!
You’re not wrong. It’s presented in a way that her mind could be in Sue’s body or Sue has branched off and is her own person. There are signs of both interpretations and I think there is room for both. Great point about the tunnel and flash of gold. Where it got muddy for us was when they were both conscious at the same time at the end. Made us completely question the transfer. Thanks for commenting!
My thoughts exactly!!
@hardcutreviews Elisabeth & Sue are different versions of the same person. Separate bodies, separate consciousness. Impossible to think anyone could survive this experiment well, no doubt the makers of The Substance are monitoring everything that's happening & are collecting data on how long it takes before the subjects flame out.
@@marybellefleur right, two egos. recipe for disaster
@@hardcutreviews at the end they are still the same person, a person with split personality and self hatred but the same person and conciousness that's why she is able to give birth to ELİSASUE, which had both personalities. it's all the same mind just sick and putting forth a different persona due self hat and madness.
I definitely think they shared a consciousness but that Elisabeth was in denial because of how she abusing herself every time she took too much time being Sue which is why she sort of dissociates and starts calling her ‘she’
Gremlins has 3 rules what not to do. The Substance has 3 rules what to do..
I get the sense that the director left the consciousness part ambiguous on purpose. By being ambiguous, we get to speculate, discuss, make it a huge talking point, that leaves so much to interpretation. Sort of like when you look at a surreal painting. You never get a direct answer from the artist, it’s more about what the art piece made you feel and what you see. You get to input your own life experiences and perspective onto it, and come up with your own take.
Having said that, I also wanted clarity in that regard haha. But the lack of clarity didn’t ruin the movie for me. I still loved it. And my take is, since Sue is indeed made out of Elisabeth, much like a clone, she does start out with Elisabeth’s knowledge, and mental baseline, but as she begins her life, it’s a separate experience. They’re fragmented and separate entities at this point.
What does Elisabeth get out of that she keeps it going? I did wonder the same thing coming out of the theater. Because why would it be worth it, if she’s not living it herself in any way. But it made me think of the mothers who enter their little girls in beauty pageants. How they do it, because they would have wanted that for themselves, and the dream of getting that “pretty girl” treatment. Because they keep doing it, even if the one getting the pretty girl treatment is the daughter. I think it’s a representation of the sick relationship some women have with themselves in terms of beauty and self acceptance.
Very well put. The fact that’s it’s ambiguous doesn’t detract from it. We just wanted to know more. Appreciate the comment!
@@hardcutreviews I also wanted my questions answered 😂 But since no answer, I had to think on it, and that’s what I arrived to.
I can’t recall who said it, but I think it may have been Cronenberg. It went something like “I don’t make movies to give you answers. I make movies to give you questions and make you seek the answers”. I definitely felt that with this movie.
At least THE SUBSTANCE got recognition in France. As for Hollywood Award potential possibilities could be either.
Award for veteran actress, award for practical effects, or award for best movie of the year.
That’s because it was independently released by way of Mubi, originally Universal was going to distribute the movie, but they backed out on account of the content straying from their usual norm
Not mentioning "Death Becomes Her" even once somehow feels almost criminal
We plead guilty.
If they were not sharing a consciousness, then the scene at the dinner where she interacts with the old man would not make sense. The old man knew who she was in terms of his younger clone being the one who introduced her to the substance. I think the movie treats them as two different women because that is how Elizabeth feels.
Yeah we were completely on board with that until they both woke up at the same time. This one consciousness shifting back and forth between them is now 2 separate ones. So I’m guessing it split like her body did, but at what point did that happen? Did the terminate fluid cause it to split at that moment? Definitely need a second viewing to pick up on everything we missed the first time. Thanks for the comment!
@@hardcutreviews Thank you. I love your channel!
@@hardcutreviews I think that because the rules were being broken, with the abuse of time allowed, and the resentment and self-hatred, it was simply a situational abomination, before the physical one we get near the end of the film.
God bless a movie with such vision and original direction, c'mon Hollywood give us more of this!
C'mon Hollywood, we need more movies with substance 😉
You're kidding? The movie's entertaining, but it's one of the most UNORIGINAL movies of the year. In fact, amongst the myriad of films that it rips off...um...homages...the main plot is basically The Picture of Dorian Gray, but women.
A good unique movie from Hollywood in 2024... couldn't be real!
There's Oscar buzz for this movie right now for Demi Moore and the makeup categoy. It will be quite a shocker if Demi Moore gets a nomination for this especially after the infamous snub for Toni Collette for Hereditary, but I hope it happens. She deserves it
At a minimum she should get nominated.
What is the correlation between Toni Colette/Hereditary and Demi Moore/The Substance?
Why does Toni being snubbed make Demi potentially being snubbed more probable?
@ Because certain types of films tend to get overlooked when award season rolls around.
HECK YEH I'm happy you guys liked it!!
I love how both of them started to hate each other, even though they're the same person..That's crazy , But it was very interesting to watch and experience.. 2 sides of the same coin , very double think. You're 19 yr old self vs your 60 yr old self..
Demi didn’t KNOW that the drug would physically create
a new person for her younger self… she was probably expecting to just appear
younger, but had no choice when that didn’t happen.
Great video, & I’m grateful you guys watched the grossness for me- I love these crazy movies, but am freaked out by blood.💚
The way I see it, they do share a conciousness. They are experiencing the feeling in the moment it happens, that is why Elisabeth couldn't give up Sue. Maybe Elisabeth was acting exactly like Sue when she was younger, hungry for success and fame, these are women in 2 different time periods in their lives, so one acts as a 20 year old and Elisabeth like an older more experienced woman would. That is the reason why they seem like 2 different people, just like we couldn't imagine acting the way we did in pur teenage years for example.
I’m so glad you guys have great things to say about this film
From a cinematography perspective, the trailer looks like a “what if Barbi was a full tilt body horror”
Accurate, lol.
Congrats on 10k guys it's long overdue
Thanks, dude!
Genre: Phansasmagoric
This shows great, its like Red Letter Media with a little more conservative, less fat, and less skeptical cynical old men.
It's great I agree.
My thoughts as well! Especially when they handled the comments about their missing context in their Cuckoo review.
Amazing movie. Demi Moore is incredible
My favorite movie reviewers - glad you enjoyed this one
Loved this too. Not initially, but it stuck with me. Cant wait for your inevitable Joker 2 review.
Love that a ridiculous body horror movie has people talking and debating. Joker 2 is coming. Saw it last night. 2 hours we can never get back.
@@hardcutreviews same, so many girls I know have asked me if I've seen it and I'm like "you've seen it?" Its great when a movie this fucked up appeals to everyone. Then there's Joker 2, which appeals to no one.
I have just added this film to my watchlist! Great review guys!
She doesn't get to live "Sue's" life, but she does indirectly get to enjoy the benefits of it. I'm certain that luxury apartment cost a lot of money and Sue is the one keeping the payments up. LOL
They share the same consciousness. But now you have two egos, and Elisabeth hates who she is. "Remember, you are one." Elisabeth recognizes Troy on his bike, Sue says she does not want to go back into Elisabeth, they both use distancing language, but the representative reminds them that there is no "she" or "her", also, the director said they share a consciousness. That may make a rewatch more interesting when you view it from that lens.
I'm glad you reviewed this. Great film experience, a wild ride.
I'm sad when I watched it, only 2 other people were in the cinema. Would've loved to be in a full room and hear all the reactions
Our theater wasn’t packed but there were a good number of people and they were having a blast. The whole place was going wild in act 3. Looking forward to seeing it again so we can see what we missed the first go around.
@@hardcutreviewsMy theater had at least 20 people and that was enough to have a good experience, hearing all sorts of reactions, from disgust, to ow, ew, awe, expletives, etc. it was probably the most engaging movie experience I’ve ever had at the theater. I also want to watch it again. I’ve never gone to see a movie twice, but this one deserves it.
It feels like they share a consciousness. When the biker yells at her, she's looking at him as though she remembers him from last night but now she's means nothing to him.
Yeah, at times it does and other times they keep it ambiguous to the point where it doesn’t seem like they share it at all. Just our interpretation of how it was presented.
@@hardcutreviews I know what you mean.
I took the bad talk sue was directing to Elisabeth was a representation of her internal battle/hatred/self loathing.
When sue first arrives outside for the first time as young, she's wearing the same yellow coat.
Side note, I noticed that "sue" is the first 2 initials of the substance with e being the end.
Loved your guys analysis.
I liked your take on this movie. I just want to express my opinion on this, as a fan of Coralie and her campness. I believe the movie's over-sexualization and the "in your face"ness of female body is intentional to reflect how the systematic male-gaze made women feel like about themselves and their body. Especially in the entertainment sector, the older the woman got = less jobs, less attention and less worth she gets from outside world. A person like Elizabeth, who was in that industry for a long time, would unintentionally internalize such values that the people reflect on her. She was not happy in her own skin. She wanted to be someone else, someone younger, better, more perfect. This was the mentality that she had when she took the Substance. This was the mentality that she felt, when she looked at the Sue body. She felt that she re-gained her Sparkle, when she thought she lost it. This was what the camera did, it wanted us to feel like we look at her from her own eyes, from her own perspective. Elizabeth and Sue, they are One, as the movie keeps reminding us. BUT they have different experiences in the outside world (ex. the neighbor incident), AND they see themselves differently in relation to it. This is why they were alienated from one another when the movie progressed. The different experiences, and self-hatred kept them apart, it became that invisible barrier between two sides of the same coin. This is why, this movie is a Feminist movie. Not because it has a female gaze, but because it tells the story from a woman's eye, which was -arguably- irreversibly tainted by the male gaze (well, maybe until the end of the movıe :p), and through the self hatred.
Really like your reviews guys would be great if you had a classics section, would be great to hear you 2 chatting about Robocop, Predator, Universal Soldier, Aliens, Road House, Reservoir Dogs etc ✌️
That’s the dream. We’ll get it there.
Check out "Revenge", guys. This director knows how to portray a sympathetic female protagonist. Believe me, you will be rooting for her.
Definitely want to check it out.
I interpreted it as they share a consciousness but Elizabeth has such an idealization of her youth that they essentially act like two totally separate people. They share each others memories but they hate each other. That’s why Sue really didn’t want to go back into Elizabeth’s body later in the movie, she dreads it because it’s Elizabeth’s sense of her own dread of her aging body
Did you review “Blink Twice”? Me and my girl liked that one and I am looking for more stuff like that. Any suggestions? I respect your opinions quite a bit.
Haven’t seen that one yet. So much to get to, lol.
There are a couple of things that could be going on with the consciousness part. The movie hints at it a little bit. There seems to be some kind of shared consciousness, as shown in the brief dream Sue had. While I wished Elizabeth and Sue shared a singular consciousness, based on how the movie presents itself, I think it could be interpreted as representing the shared human experience rather than an individual consciousness.
During my first watch, I was yelling at the TV when Elizabeth refused termination, because it was clear she wasn’t living her life, and she had the final say in ending it. But after hearing this episode, I have a different thought. If we’re considering the shared human experience, perhaps she is so mentally damaged that she feels she has nothing to live for, like a kind of absurd sunk-cost fallacy. It feels as if each time she thinks about ending it, she sees the potential of her other self and then looks at herself. She feels she has no other choice but to continue. Also, whether it’s her job or society’s male gaze making her feel worthless, she felt this way even before she started using substances. This is a clear contradiction when looking at her situation from an outsider’s perspective-she’s attractive, successful, and still at an age where she has plenty of life ahead of her. But she doesn’t see that because that’s how everyone else sees her. You mentioned that we no longer care about the messages because of how attractive the women are, so I can imagine someone in Elizabeth’s position having no self-worth despite the reality saying otherwise. While she has agency, her agency does not exist in a vacuum without the world’s influence. Her self-worth lies in others’ validation, and when that’s gone, she’s left with self-sabotage. I think that’s true for some people in reality, especially women, who sometimes feel like if they can’t be young and attractive, they might as well give up because no one cares about them anymore without those desirable features. It’s a vicious downward spiral that I can personally attest to. Therefore, my interpretation is that this is a struggle women, and some men, experience. Instead of focusing on close-ups of actresses’ bodies, or whether their revealing outfits are a critique or not, I’d rather see it as a reflection of how the world largely functions.
Another theory I have is that the body-changing aspect may be about surgical enhancements. Plastic surgery often has a positive effect initially, giving the patient a newfound sense of youth and perhaps a high from the renewed attention. But as the procedures pile on, the effect diminishes. Some enhancements aren’t long-lasting, like lip fillers or Botox. In the entertainment industry, this is all relevant, but even for everyday people, with the constant exposure to other people’s lives, we tend to think less of ourselves. We don’t see our own worth because we’re too focused on comparing ourselves to others, whether or not we consciously recognize how harmful it is.
As ham-fisted, absurd, and excessive as this movie is, it raises many questions for the viewer to think about, and I believe that makes it a successful movie.
Love the quick Broken Arrow bite
I think the ego thing is what trips people up. I read somewhere that if you woke up with another human being's perceptive mechanisms, you'd go insane. Everything would be different. So take this person who hates herself, transfer her consciousness into a different ego. It IS another person, but you're still in there. I knew she was having both experiences on the first viewing, but I understood what was going on better during the second viewing. The Substance phone representative is here to remind her/them/us that there is no other. You're in both egos, but they're like night and day. Ego is separation. This leads to self sabotage and ultimately self destruction
Definitely need to watch it a second time to pickup on some of that nuance. Might make more sense as to why they can both be awake at the same time at the end if there is only one mind being transferred back and forth. That was the thing that tripped me up and made me doubt everything else.
@@hardcutreviews There is so much going on that I think it can be easy to lose a few things while watching it. For instance, I saw it again last night and it totally dawned on me that there is only one scene in the movie where Elisabeth acknowledges she is the one who is doing it to herself. I won't tell you which scene.
@@josephirizarry5195 Definitely excited to see it again. Will be buying the hard copy for sure.
I was able to read the script and while the movie doesn't do the best job of conveying it they do share a consciousness. My read was that as she starts to unravel she starts getting that mental crosstalk. Kind of like sober you trying to remember what drunk you was up to last night.
At the very least if they didn’t wanna start them with share consciousness, which I agree, they probably should’ve done…They should have just had Isabelle keep the memories of Sue, example, she would remember everyone looking at her with awe, because she’s so attractive or because she’s so famous or people kind of worshipping her or jealousy of her and it could be that feeling that she missed, even though she’s not seeing herself, she’s still feeling / receiving others look at her .
That would’ve at least been something for her to hold onto, the same thing goes for an audience looking up to her at a New Year’s Eve party
It seemed at first like Sue was born with all of Sparkle’s memories and thoughts but as things went on they were obviously living their own experiences so the separation felt too wide. Then you get the scene at the end where they are both conscious at the same time. How does that works if it’s being passed back and forth between each body? Maybe it splits? Either way, still a great film.
@@hardcutreviews exactly, she went jekyl and hyde. Sue actually had Elisabeth's memories thats why she went straight for the dance job, withthe same ambition in mind and same obsession with how she looked. watch how she checked herself out and knew how to do the procedure. if shehad been a newborn girl she wouldbe a blank page. it was indeed the same woman but gradually lost her mind until it split into two personalities at war with eachother. sorry for long speech this is how I saw it.
@@richlasma We always assumed that Sue had the exact same memories as Liz up until the moment Liz took the drug, so they don’t need to share a consciousness to explain that aspect of it. She would still know how to do everything and have all the memories to help propel her forward in a way that made sense. Her ambition does match though, so you are correct. This world is also very focused and small. There is room for argument that Sue would have pursued that show regardless because of its reputation and status. I’m not trying to make up reasons for the view point we expressed in the video, just that everything can be looked at from multiple perspectives.
Great review. Subscribed
Thanks pal. Welcome to the channel.
They should have gotten one of Demi Moore's daughters to play her younger self.
That would have been meta as hell.
No, her daughters are not hot enough fortunately and unfortunately.
Can they act??
@@gzz8551 yep
@@MrDman21
Who says??
I’ve not felt this into a movie in a while. It made me feel excitedly anxious about what the hell’s going to happen next. I really got into it.
You guys are right about it and I agree concerning the weaknesses-it needed to convey that they were the same person in order for it to all justify why she would keep going. It’s meant to represent vanity and public affirmation as a drug addiction. And it would have been so much stronger of a movie if they were actually one persona, then when Sparkle wakes Sue up from the attempted termination, that’s when her persona starts fracturing, representing how all this will “kill thyself,” yadayada-metaphors galore! 😁 Ah, so much to talk about with this one! 👍
I thought it was about plastic surgery. Women get it when their looks are starting to fade a little, get more and more as they get older and end up looking like muppets with no facial expression in their later years.
@@BrandonToy That’s what’s in front of thematics aspects.
I think people are misinterpreting that Sue and Elisabeth aren’t the person, when the whole point of it was that they are. The guy wasn’t lying to her over the phone when he told her that they are one, they are the same person. Sue and Elisabeth do share a consciousness, but they are in two entirely different states of mind. Elisabeth is in a catastrophic state of depression- she has no compassion for herself or her body and zero sense of self preservation, as shown by the binge eating and filthy apartment. When she becomes Sue, she is a completely different state of mind- she becomes high. She is sexy confident loves her body loves her life. So when she walks into the living room to see what she was doing as Elisabeth in her depressed state, it *is* shocking
We can accept that they may share a consciousness but this was the one area of the film that they didn’t put in enough work to make it clear. Having them both be awake at the same time in the end kind of goes hard against that idea. Does the personality just suddenly split? If they are transfering their consciousness between bodies with the tubes then why doesn’t Sparkle pass out when she does it with Sue for the final time? They shouldn’t be awake and functioning simultaneously. Either way, it didn’t detract too much for how awesome it was.
Great review, subscribing. A thought-the guy on the right is like if Jay from Red Letter Media took the substance
Lol. I don’t know if I could spend the rest of my days injecting Jay’s spinal fluid into my body.
@@hardcutreviews I would not recommend it. It would probably make you drunk. Or was that just Mike's spine juice? It is unclear
Just don't use Rich's. You'll get AAAAIIIIDDDDSSSS@@colleenharding8665
Sue is the embodiment of YOLO while Elisabeth is relapse. It IS still her thats why Sue still has an idea what to do after she was birthed from the back. Theyre both aware of what theyre doing but at the same time hate each other for doing so. Thats why in my theory if Elisabeth loved herself more before taking the Subtstance, Sue wouldve been more respectful about the balance and also her older self.
Yeah that was how we were looking at it until the end. Sue began as a copy, someone with all of Liz’s memories and experience, but she then started living her own experiences that were distinct. Did this develop enough to the point where they could both be conscious at the same time? It didn’t feel like her mind had been copied over the way her body did. Interesting ideas to ponder.
@@hardcutreviews It is one consciousness, no copying, but when the two become split, I think that is a point of no return moment. She's going to destroy herself, she has completely split, there is no going back. I found that part to be very exciting
@@josephirizarry5195 It was definitely exciting. Looking forward to seeing it again and diving deeper into the nuance.
I f orgot to address my thoughts on Sue in the last comment.
After thinking about it for a day, it strikes me as a bit strange that, despite having separate consciousness, Sue would immediately want to take Elizabeth’s old job. At first, I thought maybe she did it because the movie repeatedly emphasizes that they are one, and that’s why she went along with it. It’s possible the movie never fully addresses this. In a way, we could interpret it as a mother-daughter relationship, with Sue completing her “mother’s” legacy. Or, she might be so influenced by societal expectations, given her beauty and youth, that she feels it’s the best job for her, rather than exploring other avenues when given a second chance at life.
I lean toward the idea that Sue and Elizabeth do share some level of consciousness. Otherwise, when Sue first wakes up, she should have been freaking out about the maimed body next to her and would likely have acted very differently.
If we follow the idea that they are somehow the same person inside, Sue’s disdain for Elizabeth could be seen as self-hatred-resenting her own insecurities, narcissism, and self-sabotage, and doing everything in her power to avoid regressing back to her old self.
It would be so easy to right the wrong of two characters (which actually comes across as a mother’s envy of her beautiful young daughter) instead of a one consciousness in two bodies narrative.
Elizabeth’s (Demi Moore) consciousness should transfer into Sue’s body, so Elizabeth gets to enjoy all the adulation; eventually Elizabeth can’t bare to go back to life in her own body and so begins to take longer spells of time ‘being Sue’, which fucks up her own body - as happens in the film as it is. There. It’s that simple.
In an early release viewing at my theater, with everyone there wanting to see it, people were laughing at the over the top stuff happening at the end. Such a good film.
I laughed so hard at the end and I was the only one in the theater laughing. My wife was horrified and my daughter was completely disgusted 😂😂
I can't wait for Joker 2 here.😅 It's almost a why bother (reviewing), tyoe of situation but it's going to be funnny.🤙
Had to review it. We were speechless when the credits started rolling. It will be out soon…
I had zero interest in this movie, but you guys totally sold me on in. Can't wait to watch it.
To me it was quite "obvious" that "they" shared the same consciousness, which simply started to split in the second third in the movie. But that's just my guess. (This still doesn't explain the scene where "they" finally meet. A huge drawback for the movie, in my opinion.) There is a very good short story by the name of"The Lottery" by australian writer Peter Carey, which describes quite distinctively how a body swap messes up your mind and your perception of your self and your interactions with others.
Anyway: Greetz from Germany! I think your reviews are well phrased, concise and funny as hell. As a gay man I especially enjoy the rainbow ratings and the impersonation of "the girls". For me it is quite harrowing what the"queer" culture has become and I think it is brave of both you to point it out, in term of contemporary movies.
I do hope, that you will get more followers and you will be able to make more reviews over time. Personally I'd be looking forward to watch your reviews for movie classics (like "Die Hard", "The Godfather", "Taxi Driver" etc.) and your reactions on european Art-House ("Women on the Verge of a nervous breakdown", "Fox and his friends", "Cries and Whispers" etc.) X-))
Have a good time!
I think it would have been better if Demi's character remembered what she did as Sue but regretted it, like a bad hangover. As it was, she had no memory of it so had nothing to benefit from the process. She just ended up on the bathroom floor for a week.
I believe they are fully one Consciousness, it is said in the rules. The culprit here is the Ego which always has a constant struggle with the the true essence of any human being. Nice review guys!!! 🤩
Appreciate the comment! I think the rules are little vaguer than that. It tells them ‘you are one’, which you can say they are literally the same person, or that they have a symbiotic relationship where Sue cannot survive without Sparkle. If you abuse the stabilization rule, things go south. There is evidence that they share a consciousness but when they are both conscious at the end, it caused us to question that entire premise. How can they share and swap a consciousness if they are both awake and in control at the same time? They kept it vague enough that there is plenty of room for interpretation. Still loved it.
Right, she hates herself, and gets to live in another ego. Of course it's not going to work out
@@josephirizarry5195 Man, you left no stone unturned, lol. I can accept what you’re saying but I think where I keep getting caught and pulled back is that simultaneous consciousness scene. The more I think about it the more I conclude that film broke its own rules. You are one until I guess, you’re not one? If the experience pushed her so far that her mind literally split in two then it does ultimately create a separate and distinct person, even if it’s one mind swapping back and forth. If the film followed its own rules then when old Liz swaps with dead Sue, her mind would have gone right back to Sue and Liz should have passed out and they would both be dead, because Sue’s body was terminated so what did the terminator fluid do outside of nothing? There is a second where you think, ok she just killed this body but it’s rendered pointless a few seconds later. Instead, her mind chooses that exact moment to split, like her cells do when the experiment starts. It made me question everything I had just seen. A second viewing is definitely in order.
Great movie!
Will u guys please do a review for Joker 2?
It’s on the way…
@@hardcutreviewsThanks guys. Looking forward to it.
i think they do share a conscience but its more of a 3rd person perspective afterwards as shes aware of the selfish choices shes making when shes in her younger body, but when she is younger she doesnt want to give it up and go back, and its not until she does that she has to deal with the consequences of her choices.
It felt vague enough that it could go either way. There were signs of it until they were both awake at the end together and then we lost all confidence in that theory, haha.
This was my fav of the year
Now… I want to see your review of Salem’s Lot (2024) there is one deal in it that I have a feeling you’ll loathe and the back and forth will be amazing!
We’ve been avoiding it like the plague, lol.
@@hardcutreviews I get it! Yet, you both will get so much mileage for a review! I think it would be hilarious your reactions to this film.
Just in time. Saw this last night. It was Awesome. About a dozen other people in the theater, 5 people walked out before the end and I laughed so hard when a guy behind got up and almost started running down the stairs and just when I heard the door open the whole theater heard 🤮. Easily best and most disgusting movie of the year. Now you guys just gotta do TERRIFIER 3.
I had a difference experience, I thought they did share consciousness all the time and it was left vague on purpose
Demi Moore in an interview mentioned how they share the same consciousness… so that’s interesting, but obviously the film didn’t make that obvious
Interesting. This gives us more questions than answers, lol. Like, how could they both be awake at the same time if they are sharing a consciousness? It seemed like Sue was an upgraded clone who needed Liz’s spinal fluid to sustain her body. Everything got split but the mind, yet that wasn’t copied until that end, but only because the story needed it happen. Will have to dive deeper into this one.
I thought it was pretty clear. The movie reminds you of this. When Sue says "I can't go back into her" - she's distancing herself from what she hates. The representative reminds both Sue and Elisabeth that there is no "she" or "her" - there are also moments that remind you she is both when she recognizes Troy on his bike and is taken aback to how rude he is to her.
@@josephirizarry5195 Yeah, we are aware of what the film kept telling us. The voice on the phone hammered it home 100 times and the scene on the bike with Troy lended to that. The only reason we questioned what we were being told 100 times was because of the dual consciousness at the end. Definitely need to watch it again to pick up on some of the nuance. It just felt odd that her mind splits into two distinct separate entities but it only happens months after her body does. Does it not make sense why we might stop and question the mechanics of that?
Additionally, I didn’t understand the motivation for Demi to keep it going. She’s not the same person. She just gets the bad spine scar and disappearing for a week.
A lot of people keep telling us they were sharing a consciousness but they could have pushed that connection way further, especially since they are both conscious at the same time at the end. Either way, still a great film.
Why am I not surprised this was directed by a frog...
⭐AWESOME FILM ⭐ Not quite as good as 'The Fly'
I thought it was going to be another unrelatable celebrity film, but this one has a serious twist
I agree with you both on everything except two elements. But this is a great review!
Hit us with the elements. We love a good back and forth.
For me, the reason they weren’t the same consciousness ala remembering what the other was doing etc is a metaphor on how we torment ourselves when it comes to our younger selves. Like embarrassed by how we acted at a party, but too drunk to remember and hear about it or the aftermath. The film with Elizabeth is about self hate and it’s more interesting keeping her and Sue separate only to see what the other has done, yet like an abusive relationship they can’t give each other up. That was my takeaway.
I said two elements. My other element was the score - I’ve been thinking about this film since I saw it and I walked out realizing I saw either a hit film or a cult classic that people will talk about for years. I would’ve rated it a 10, but that’s me.
@@jameswallace756 Fair points. We liked how the consciousness thing was open to interpretation. Really solid filmmaking and writing.
@@hardcutreviews agree! And that's what makes a great film or narrative - when it has something that makes you debate or reconsider - at least for me. Hell, people still talk about 2001 or The Shining due to some of its story elements.
This makes me want to watch Upgrade again.
10:40 .. THEY ARE ONE. It's one consiousnes switching bodies but in context of the body it feels drastically different so she blame her own mistakes on her other self while there is no other self. Sorry but they constantly repeat this in a movie .. r u dum dum?
I guess you missed the part where they’re both awake at the same time. Do you have the ability to question narratives and ideas? Yes, tHe MoViE tElL mE tHeY iS oNe. Congrats, you repeated what the movie told you. You’re not wrong, but how dare we question things when the movie breaks its own rules.
I liked it, didn't love it. I mean I'd recommend it but it was far from my personal favorite.
Yeah this one is definitely an acquired taste and understand when people are not that into it.
I'm not surprised you guys liked this, IMO it's the best movie of the year. Great performances all around and great execution. Enjoyed this review fellas!
Interesting, the whole time I thought they ARE sharing the same consciousness. It is just that the one consciousness became more and more separated. Or you remembered what you did but you don’t 100%. Like a hangover.
Otherwise Sue would not know what to do as soon as she was “born”. Sue never get the instructions but Elizabeth did.
It’s kinda like you had too much cocaine one night and you don’t even recognize yourself when you are high😂
Yeah at times there were little moments that they had a connection beyond the physical but they didn’t play with it enough. They could have really pushed that boundary. When they are both awake at the same time, that reinforced that they weren’t sharing one consciousness though. We might be getting too deep into the weeds on this one.
The last act got too crazy.
That made the movie: the craziest and most hilarious scene I’ve seen in a while.
That is true. Was it your favorite film of the year? I agree with Matt and Bobby that it would have been better that they shared a conscience. Revenge by the way is great for anyone who hasn’t seen it.
@@tbernabei3333 I can’t think of another movie that came out this year that I enjoyed more.
@@BrandonToy It definitely was entertaining and somewhat new storyline. The weird face thing at the end lost me though. 😂🤷🏻♀️
YOU ARE ONE .. what exactly did you not understand guys? 🤔🧐
Just off of this review… you have a new Sub! Love the adult vibes, scenery and the dialog. Keep up the GREAT work!
Thanks man, welcome to the channel.
New Sub here,and off topic.. but can someone tell me why Andy Samberg and Zack Snyder are doing movie reviews?🤷🏽♂️🤭😂
Film buff
Dude... I've been brooding for a while who Matt reminds me of. Yeah, it's Andy Samberg! 😃
OMG!!!!!!!
How many times did this movie say
YOU ARE ONE!!!!!!
The way that people don’t get it is crazy……
OMG!!!!!!
The movie said it 100 times.
NO SHIT!!!!
The way they were both conscious at the same time at the end kind of calls all of that into question. God forbid we actually question what the film is telling us non-stop. Films have never tried to trick audiences before. Silly us.
@
Movies that aren’t based in realism require the audience to suspend disbelief…
@@instructivesilence359 You can excuse away when a movie breaks its own rules however you like. Doesn’t change that it broke its own rules. I’m not saying you’re wrong. The movie was clear. But to continue the narrative the way they wanted, it required them to do something that cuts completely against the core rule of the film.
The matching kicks lead to higher movie scores
We synced up our monthly cycles too.
@@hardcutreviews stunning AND brave.
You Guys just complain 😂
We liked it, lol. You should watch a video where we actually complain.
I think drugs do the same, you are not you, it is the drug. (?) That is why the substance was a trapp...
Everyone needs to calm down, we all know Beetlejuice was the best film of 2024. 😂😂💩
Impossible to say with a straight face.
Didn't even have to use your second rating system.
Nah, the messaging was so expertly woven into the narrative that nothing really bothered us.
THEY WERE THE SAME PERSON!!! THEY WERE SHARING THE SAME CONCIOUSNESS! it totally went over your guys' head.
THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING THAT. WE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT, DESPITE THEM BOTH BEING SEPARATELY CONSCIOUS AT THE END AT THE SAME TIME… oops, my caps lock was stuck on. Sorry about that.
@@hardcutreviews sorry I was just frustrated. the woman is experiencing both lives and its her doing and saying all the things. her mind gradually gets sicker until there's total dissosiative disoreder. unfortunately the two personalities hate eachother as a result of her not loving herself. I'm a doctor specialising in psychiatry so maybe I saw things differently. but yeah that's my take, the lady is simply mentaly ill,by the end her mind gets copied and awakens in both bodies but since its a sick mind it still fights against itself.
@@richlasma It’s all good. You’re not wrong. That’s what makes this film so great. We were fine with the notion of shared consciousness until they were both awake at the end. Made us question everything that had come before, which, in our opinion, is what a great film should make you do. It’s easy to just say, her consciousness was copied or split in that very moment so it doesn’t contradict the previous 90 minutes of the film. We just had questions about that moment and the circumstances surrounding it. Appreciate you going further into it.
25:20 to 25:45
I notice that men reviewing this film don't really understand it. Whereas women seem to get it. These guys seem to have viewed it as a ridiculous horror movie. They didn't really touch on the overarching message here: the horrors of aging in general, particularly for women. The gratuitous shots the two men speak of are all there for a reason. It's pretty troubling that they didn't pick up on this. This film is clearly a parable about aging and going too far in hopes of preserving youth.
Of course we noticed it. We talk about it briefly in the beginning because it’s obvious what the commentary is behind the film. It’s not exactly hidden. We just chose to talk about what we liked about it and not get into a thematic analysis. That’s not what we do. We bs about movies. We don’t analyze them from a social commentary stand point. Also, it can have social commentary and be a ridiculous horror movie at the same time. They’re not mutually exclusive.
I completely disagree with the shared conscience you think would have been better. Separate people made jealousy and the abuses all the more potent. Besides, if Sue abuses Elisabeth for 3 months, is because it's not her and she doesn't have to suffer the consequences.
Yeah that’s a fair take. She can be jealous of any girl though. Her being jealous of Sue could have ended anytime she wanted. She was in control of Sue’s existence. We talked about it a lot in the review but it was just a small critique. The movie is still amazing.
This was a black mirror episode that overstayed its welcome 7/10
The best review channel on TH-cam and the uploading is soooo slow 😮
Do you guys really need jobs 😂
I don’t need one so when I have to wait a month for your next video I raise my fist 👊 to the sky and scream my frustration at the heavens in rage 😤
🤣🎉
Yeah those pesky problems of paying mortgages and putting diapers on babies, lol. It’s an uphill battle, dude.
the best review i've seen for The Substance. fantastic movie, and you guys mentioned all the parts i loved, and the one aspect i thought could have been better. best film i have seen this year - until Terrifier 3 comes out.
Thanks, dude. Really looking forward to seeing this one again to catch all the little things we missed on the first watch. Terrifier 3 is going to be a hell of a ride, lol.
saying an explicitly feminist movie by a female director who has stated its feminist themes isn't "feminist bullshit" is hilarious
Yeah. Cause she’s talented enough to know how to tell a feminist story in a way that doesn’t annoy the shit out of a general audience like 99% of the garbage people call movies today. Thanks, Bev.
I think they were indeed sharing a consciousness… but they still couldn’t make peace with one another. That was kind of the point. I know her memory was hazy whenever she switched bodies, but I still definitely think she was enjoying the experience while in the Sue body. I think that’s a big part of why they kept reiterating “you are one.”
Anyway, I’m glad you guys finally really liked a movie for the first time in a while, lol.
There’s a lot of room for interpretation and that’s a good thing. Whether they were or they weren’t, this movie still kicked ass.
I suspect that the street cleaner at the end is Bruce…wouldn’t that be lovely?…
This movie is actually based on a short story called the new you by kit reed about a woman who buys a newer younger better version of herself in the mail and her new self turns on her and locks her in a closet most of the time. The old self slowly turns into a monster and mopes around the house eating and lamenting but I won't spoil the end
Interesting. Will have to check that out. Thanks for the reco.
Oh my god. I was wondering how you could be misinterpreting this very unsubtle movie so badly, and then you said "woke" unironically and started bitching about women in movies and it all became crystal clear lmao.
Should've done that in the very beginning and saved me thirty minutes.
Yeah that part where we praise the female director was a real shot at women. Perhaps you misinterpreted it because you can’t tell the difference when we knock incompetent women versus competent ones. Come back and waste 30 minutes any time. We love the channel engagement.
I wondered how straight men would interpret the nudity and T&A... and looks like my assumptions were right 🫤 cool bro
Happy to disappoint.
@hardcutreviews I'll share! Instead of criticize! The director said it's to mimic how woman scrutinize our own bodies, constantly measuring ourselves up to what men would find attractive. So while yes the close ups were "arousing" to some, it's actually sad that we reduce ourselves down to our body parts. But, T&A 🤪🎉 amiright 😃
@@abzasapx We know exactly what the intent of the director was. We bring it up in the video. Doesn’t mean it still didn’t fail. But keep telling men to not notice objective beauty in women.
I’m avoiding any spoilers for the movie and gonna watch the review after seeing it, but I’m assuming if you guys liked it that it doesn’t hit you over the head with feminism which was my concern lol
It’s present for sure, but presented in a way that makes sense to the story. The movie doesn’t pause to give you a message then picks up where it left off.
"She still looks good..." See what you did there?
I do. And I would equally apply it to men and women. Do you think I would give Harrison Ford a pass in Indy V just because he’s a man?
Side note: Your side tables are too high for those chairs
Well, well, well. We have an interior designer in the comments section. They were cheap. Give us a break.
@@hardcutreviews 😂
*for the algorithm*
I could not get into this at all. It started out off putting and was all downhill from there... until it degenerates into stupid schlocky splatter-trash in the last 20 minutes. Also, this movie refused to end more than "Return of the King"...
Completely understandable. We figured most people would be turned off by this film. We’re just a couple of knuckleheads.
Smh I stopped warching as soon as you two made clear you thought they were two whole different people. Its the same person in two bodies, same consciousness, the movie made that clear many times because why would anyone go through all that in the first place? She starts to disassociate, hates her old body for what she's become, and her younger body for having everything. Sue talking down on Elizabeth on tv is more real for her when she's spectating it from her older body. its self-abuse and sef-hatred and she was willing to destroy her real self just to enjoy her youthfulness again. She was just loosing it and blaming Sue as if she wasn't responsible for her own destruction.
In what ways did it make it clear? It made the opposite quite clear in a few scenes so we’d love to know how they are both conscious at the exact same time at the end if there is only one consciousness. Perhaps we missed the scene where they explained the mechanics of that.
@@hardcutreviews "Remember, you are one." When Elisabeth is Sue, she's like an addict on a binge. She has another ego, she is full of hormones, she is young and idiotic. Elisabeth clearly recognizes Troy when he's on his bike. When Sue realizes she has to switch with Elisabeth who has been completely drained, she says "I can't go back into her." She is one. Having two egos has only made things worse for her because she hates herself and it has caused a split.
I struggled to draw anything profound out of The Substance. I left the viewing feeling like I'd just watched an elaborately produced bikini commercial. The film doesn't say anything particularly interesting about desire, age or femininity. I really detest films which shove lots of flesh down your throat, and then pretend to have some grand pretext for debauching your imagination. 'The Substance' is a very close cousin of the 'X/Maxxxine' movies, which combine absolutely irrational scenarios with a script that has been lifted from an 'Archie' comic. The fact that some of this film's most ardent critics are intelligent young women, really says something too. If you look at Rodin's famous sculpture of the aging beauty, it says infinitely more about women and ageing, than this cheap sex-ploitation film. Read a Charlotte Bronte novel, if you really want to understand womanhood.