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This was awesome. Carl is the absolute best and i love that dude. 100% the best dude and most talented dude too. great show!

Hell is a real place; -2 Thes. 1:9 says that Hell is eternal punishment. -2 Peter 2:4 refers to Hell as chains of darkness. -According to Jesus; Matt. 13:42 Hell is where the condemned are cast into the furnace of fire. -Mark 9:43 Jesus says; the fire of Hell shall never be quenched . -John 3:36 talks about the wrath of God. -2 Peter 3;7 says it is a place of destruction for the ungodly. It’s a real place of final separation from God , from all light, love , peace, pleasure, and fulfillment . It is the 2nd death of -Revelation 20: 14-15 which says then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death the lake of fire and If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire. -Matthew 25:41 Jesus says; depart from Me, you cursed into the eternal fire. -Matthew 7:23 Jesus says depart from Me you workers of lawlessness, you who practice lawlessness - sin -Matthew 8:12 Jesus says Hell is a place of outer darkness, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. -Isaiah 66:24 as compared to Mark 9:48 says where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. That speaks to it being perpetual , over and over again , punishment and anguish, blackness of darkness forever. Emphasizing utter isolation. J I Packer says; there are few things stressed more strongly in the Bible, than the reality of God’s work as a judge. A day of judgement is coming. -Acts 17:30,31 says; God commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man (Jesus Christ) whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." -Romans 2:5 says ; But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. As Roger sang once “you have been for warned”

“Spineless” is the Tourniquet song with the rapping intro. It’s a great song! Psycho Surgery has no bad songs.

🐸Complaint rock froggy😆👍

🐸 Froggy use habbsa Klanks albums...it were preddy good axelly... YAY foggy YAY!!!

Saw EDL and POD in a small cafeteria at Drexel University in Philly back in the day. Also in Cornerstone before their first album came out. Always a great live band. Another cool interview.

Any luck contacting Mark Salomon to appear on the show?

There was some controversy at some point with EDL’s second or third bass player Michael Albright aka “Oxx”. He was in the band a very short amount of time. After he left the band from some kind of anxiety or health issues, Tedd did an interview saying all Oxx had to do was play bass… the most simple job in a band. Tedd was angry at him. Maybe he cost them a tour or some concerts… If Tedd comes on the show, ask him about it.

Skimming through the comments and seeing a bunch of Christian cliches from clueless people that think they have something to say that may get Roger back to the faith or just being dismissive. It's been awhile sinceI was reading the Bible, can anyone remind me who said "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself" and whether he spent more time warning sinners or putting the religious people in their place

I was into all the Celldweller related stuff in the 90s and remember having the first Klank CD, kinda bizarre youtube randomly recommended this

I saw EDL at the Back Alley club in Fullerton around 1998. Klank was there too on his first solo tour. It was cool! If not mistaken, Zebrahead and Vitamin L were at the show too… both those bands suck.

This guys own words will testify against him.

Any update on Roger since this?

I wrote Rodger Martinez in the late 80s, he wrote me back and encouraged me to read Francis Schaefer. ❤

Great respect for you Roger hope you get better I hear you about the church alot Sunday morning christain out their praying for you that you can get better hang in their

Hey Rodger been an big an big.fan of you have all albulm praying.for you you look good by the way take care from calgary home of the flames calgary stampders

Dirt bag forgot Atheist killed more people than all the wars combined and the holocaust!

This is rad. Thanks for this, I was wondering what Chad had been up to. I was really religious as a kid then had the same spiritual journey of christian turned atheist. These days I consider myself agnostic. I really appreciate your approach to having chill conversations with people of differing belief systems. Our country can use more conversations like this and both you and Chad inspired me to lead with love. Cheers!

And what in the world the catholics, wars, and all the religions have to do with God and his scripture? Too sad Roger is lost.

Anyone able to give us an update on his health?

He’s a fraud. He was always a name dropping fraud. He’s still a name dropping fraud. And this talk show host….hes an obvious fan of Roger but dang what a dumb move to align himself with such an over rated couch warrior.

I know, I am late, but somehow watching a clip of Deliverance playing at Immortal Fest brought me over here. There are a couple remarks and questions I have about some things JB said in this interview. And to be clear, this is not about judging anybody, but a quest for the sources of his arguments. In this and in the two other interviews with him on this channel, he often mentioned, 'do your own reading/research'. Well, I did so in my whole life. And what I read, often does not match up with what he said. So I was wondering, how he came to his conclusions? - About sefer yetzirah: some scholars date it the earlist in the 2nd century BC, many think it's more likely after 2nd century AD. About quotes that Jesus used from this book: that is a far fetch, at least that's what mainstream scholars think. I didn't find any quotes when I read it. But I am always open to learn new things, if someone could point me to the quotes. And (from the interview this year), kabbalah manuscripts predating Jesus by 3000 years? Is there a source for that? - About Jesus being a rabbi and therefore having been married: Jesus was a teacher, but not a rabbi in a tradional sense who studied for several years. Otherwise they wouldn't have said ‘How did this man get such learning without having been taught?’ (John 7:14..). And beeing married? There is no evidence, even though this is being brought up every couple years without any substantial arguments. - Jesus was a Nazarene, not a Nazirite. These two are often confused, but there is a big difference between those two. - About the library of Alexandria and the Crusades: There is no evidence of the crusades destroying the library. (and, just to add, the crusades took place between 1095 and the 13th century - a long time after damage to the library was done by different actors/cultures/wars). E.g. there might have been a partial destruction/burning during Julius Ceasar's time. In the 1st to the 3rd century the importance of the library of A. declined, others gained importance. - Putting the crusades 100...120 years before the First Council of Nicaea in 325 is way off. - The controversial subject discussed at the First Council of Nicaea was not, if Jesus was merely a man (prophet, teacher...) or God, but if Jesus is a god next to god the father, so monotheism vs. polytheism. - As I listened to all three interviews with JB, I am not sure if this was mentioned in this one: it wasn't said in the interview that Jesus never said he loves us, but that other christians were unable to point to a verse that says that. Implying, that Jesus never said that. Well, e.g. in John 14 and John 15 he says exactly that. - These were just a couple remarks and there would be many more, but, having pointed out a few I guess that anyone can do some reading and research about other statements that were made. And I am always open to new scientific findings - as long as they as they don't spring off frince science (which I see as a waste of time..... almost like writing this comment ;-) Btw, I still am a fan of the first six albums. ;-)

Dude u got cancer !?!??) u know the truth !! Hope u come back before it’s to late

I just finished reading the book by Roger Dale Martin. It´s pretty much spot on. They were pretty much 70s rockers trying to go extreme metal. Roger Martinez was pretty much wholeheartedly into thrash and tried to continue the Vengeance Rising train. When I was a teen at the time, I was a fan until the end. A lot of the early Christian metal bands, like on Pure Metal records were grade A cheese. The production was very low budget, and usually tinny sounding. Even the good bands like Bride suffered weak production on their earlier albums. In retrospect, I knew I was getting some weak ass stuff but I got so conditioned. I was afraid of being enticed by "the world"

Wasn't really into his music but he's a class dude who is respectful and can have an intelligent conversation...

Loved the interview! And glad you got a chance to interview Brian! You're getting some great guests! Very well done! Couple of disagreement points if i can offer, since you always enjoy good discourse. On the interview you and I did a few years back, you mentioned the possibility of the Holy Spirit impregnating Mary "against her will" or as "rape." My response was that Mary consented to the plan. Check Luke Then Mary said, “Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her." As you know I have no issue with a person's non-belief. Rock on I say. But I do want to offer the point for accuracy. The Church believes Mary could have said no. The other point. The immaculate conception doesn't refer to Jesus. It's Catholic dogma about Mary being made to have no sin (in this case technically against her will). I do not subscribe to this teaching, personally, as i'm not Catholic. But just wanted to correct the record on that point. Looking forward to the interview with Steve Taylor!

I still have the Death Is Dead tape.

What a thoughtful guy. Loved Deliverance back in the day as well as Vengeance and the other early thrashers in the scene. Good to see that one of the musicians I looked up to has also logically made an informed decision about what he believes. I tell people that I basically ignored 99% of the evidence that refuted my faith because it would cause doubts. What kind of way is that to live? It's ridiculous. If something doesn't live up to evidence, scrutiny and logic, it doesn't deserve to be held on to.

If only religion was the greatest problem facing society …..

Dude cashed my $20 check for a t shirt and I never got it.

Ok great don’t get AIDS 🙄

This was such a cool interview. I grew up on the crucified, vengeance, scaterd few, believer…I added integrity, ringworm, napalm death, carcass, slayer, cattle decapitation, sepultura, death, obituary and I’m still a devoted Christian. I love the a honesty and artistry regardless of the perspective.

Still one of my favorites. Such a class act.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. 1st john2:19 Roger needs to Repent and believe the Gospel he was not converted .

Brian seems like a sweet soul. Definitely seems more genuine than others I’ve seen you interview.

Have. you considered putting the audio of these interviews as a podcast?

Euthanasia reminds me of the movie Logan’s Run.

I gotta laugh when I hear about the fear of living in a Christian society. Compare that to the nightmare of living in the Atheist country of communist China. Maybe it’s annoying for an Atheist to have biblical references and teachings around in America. But compare that to being put in prison or killed for what you believe!

No disrespect to Brian, he chose his path. But don’t forget that Gary Lenaire went all the way into Atheism (even wrote a book about it) and returned back to God.

I see no downside to believing in Jesus. You can live the best life you can and also have the hope of salvation and eternal life after you die (if you trust in Jesus Christ and believe he payed the penalty for your sin). Now if your intention is to do things that are known as sinful, that is probably a big reason someone would refuse God. No one is perfect, everyone will stumble… but we can get up and try again.

Get Mark Salomon.

Brian looks like the high priest from Temple of Doom.

The Goat

I've been hesitant to enter this fray for various reasons, but I find myself compelled to do so. I could not watch this video for long because of the sound issues. What I did watch made it impossible for me not to at least comment. I've watched most of your videos as a part of a "youtube rabbit hole" search. I saw that you were interviewing Roger Martinez, a person who I was interested in, in terms of finding out where he was philosophically. (I'm sorry to hear of his cancer. I do hope that he successfully recovers. Obviously, in listening to the interviews, the information that I had come to learn about him had been confirmed by his own lips. It's disappointing, as I listen to Roger every other day at the gym when I'm running. "Beheaded" is a great tune to run to!) At one point, I believe in interview 4, he said that you guys had covered all the reasons why you were not believers. Based on your interviews, you both seem to have landed on two points particularly: 1) Fraudulent ministers/ministries, 2) falsified reports of healings/spiritual phenomena. As a believer, Pastor, and fan of Vengeance Rising from back in the day, I'm stunned that this was enough for you both! God's word is replete with warnings of false teachers. In fact, in my current reading of Ezekiel, God is warning of false teachers who have poisoned the minds of the people of Judah. In other words, it's not only a "New Testament" phenomena. For every fraudulent minister and ministry that gets reported, a thousand continue on without scandal. You never hear of planes that land safely in the media! Again, along with that, there is no doubt that there are those who have falsified their spiritual metrics for gain among the goats. That doesn't negate the genuine inexplicable cases which I myself have never reported, namely because I didn't find out for decades. I once prayed for a woman who told me nearly 20 years after the fact, that she had been healed right after I had prayed for her, but she then lost touch with me because she moved out of the area. Once again, the presence of the false intimates the presence of the genuine. There are hypocrites, actors and con men. The Bible said there would be. The Bible also says that there would be scoffers and mockers... I'll leave that there . . . Now, here is where I felt compelled to write. You went to this festival and made a comment, I think . . . again the sound . . . something to the effect that they were peddling something that they couldn't definitively prove, namely the existence of God. Let me ask you: Can you definitively prove that there ISN'T a God? Wouldn't it be a better, more accurate statement to say it like this: "Can you definitively prove that there is a god using proof that I would accept!?" In my mind, there are plenty of proofs, but you guys have rejected them. That's your prerogative. But what do you accept? When I've heard you all talk, the appeal to authority has been Dawkins, a man whose work has been critically critiqued by other Christians who are still Christians after they have read it. Obviously, if he is what you all stand behind, I'd have to say that you guys have more faith than most Christians! Is it feasible that there is a God that doesn't have a need to prove Himself after all the proof He has provided or is it that there isn't a God at all? Would a person rather stand behind a Bible, a book that has been attacked by far better men than Dawkins and outlived them all, or the whims of a man who has rejected the same evidence that both of you have? All that being said, I would not have said anything until you made this trip and went against your own stated goals. It seemed like you were looking for a fight and picked on ones that might not have been up to it. In the process, I hope, for your sake, that you didn't scandalize them. (Luke 17:2) I'm not sure that anything I could say would register, but I pray that you will both reconsider your positions. Ultimately, if you are right, then we all die and nothing. I will still have lived a very satisfying life, but there will be no reward. So, no losers there. But if I'm right . . . My trust in Jesus hasn't moved an inch, not since the 80's when my faith began and was nurtured by bands like VR, and certainly not by a word you all have shared to date. If I've misrepresented your argumentation to date and have more compelling content on it's way, please forgive my impatience.

Simon, if you are interested in ancient near east, ancient judaism, and the dead sea scrolls scholarship, I recommend checking out Mythvision Podcast. Check out Dr. Kipp Davis and Dr. Josh Bowen.

Ha, I remember hanging with Rob and Edie from Headnoise at cornerstone a bit. I saw them in VA at some point too.

I saw Scaterd-Few at Dexel University in Philly back in the late 90's. I saw Spyglass at C-stone, probably in the late 90's. I saw Allen playing solo acoustic out of the back of a U-Haul at C-Stone in the 90s. I was at the Dighayzoose show at C-Stone in the 90s when Allen came out and did a few SF songs.

Sorry the sound is not great:)

You doing the opposite of what the evangelists do by going out and trying to convert people? Lol.

Interesting how as young Christians we were trying to do the right thing and abstaining and then the people we looked up to as idols, were screwing women and getting drunk and doing all the things they preached against. So many of the bands have exposes out now where we are seeing how much of a joke it was. It was a clown car on steroids apparently.