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Join turtle wow, it's classic plus lite.

Well they coming out with HC fresh Classic Servers... and now that its Microsoft and not "Actively dont' care about you" aka Activition... the servers are MUCH better. The whole time I was playing SoD I was waiting for a DC where if it was HC I would die... Never happened. So I am down to get that 60 on HC. Can't be "They guy who makes HC guides but dies"

Yeah... not good. I hated that also. Where my DANGEROUS world at?

I played troll back in the day. I hate there feet

I here they are all linked in a mega server... PvP and PvE

Wheres that

@@KrolGaming What I am saying is on Era no mater what "server you join" you can see other from other servers on the same layer in open world as you

Ah ok yeah. But on era server are so old... feels like i dont want to start on a well-set server

That's the nerdiest thing I've ever read.

Everything has a time. Sod was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will always hold true classic in my heart but after having done it 25 times I’m ready to put that to bed for a good many years

not really

Nah... I have videos on that... you use your mana to judge Crusader for +100 Spell Power then use SoR and Consecration. You get about 20s kill times compared to 17 vs undead or demons. Kill times are identical... what makes the diff is that Exorcism can PULL the mob 30y away. I made a list of UD and Demon mobs you can farm from level 20 onwards all the way to 60. Most of them are out of the way area's no one goes. The Undead mob area there has a quest item you can put down that will summon infinate undead Centars like level 39... Demons just left of there are level 40... and the demons right outside Desolace Point are level 34. Let me check... After this i farm the Undead Ghosts just north of Azshara level 45... then the Demons in Azhara 50-52 Or go WPL At level 41 I would probably go quest a bit... get level 43... Do some ZF Runs for Gear... then find myself in Azshare.

I will make a video

try hard no lifer

@@whoknows8225 lol did ur "gf" drop the leash for a sec?

@@Christian-oq3md yeah, dont worry wont happen to you, you will never have one

@@whoknows8225 haha

oh yo im on dd too, what guild are you in?

In classic while leveling you can tank/heal with any talents, it doesn't work like in retail that you need to have a spec for it. Just save int gear for healing and stam gear for tanking and swap when you do these roles.

Stam Spirt is better for TANKING then Healing in dungeons... but at level 40 it doesn't really matter what gear you use because its Rank 1 FoL spam with Blessing of light mostly. In this gear you have to drink a mana pot when things get round... also having Major Recombobulator Ray as a trinket is SUPER good. What happens is that you are SUPER mana effeicent in Stam/Spirt with some Owl bits compared to Stam/Int gear... but when things get rough you need the deeper mana bar... so out comes the Mana pots and Rebob trinket. Jugs of Light has a video tanking in Stam Spirt gear you can search for. Looks nice.

TBC unironically fixed this. You wanted one for utility and they could hold their own in DPS (personally, they should even tune them down just a little there too). That's enough, Paladins do not have to be competitive in pve DPS. If you really want that, unironically play retail. Or, you'll have to give up some of your utility as a trade off.

@@sproosemoose285 im not asking to top meters but ret in classic will never be allowed in a raid. I would just want a minor change where your not insta declined for wanting to dps as a classic pally

@@djhanger3035 So don't play a Paladin if your intention is to dps in raids? There's lots of data out there showing exactly what each class can do in pretty much every facet of the game. Paladin isn't a pve dps class, it's a healer/support class. Or, like I said, play retail.

@@sproosemoose285 then why even have the ret spec to begin with. Your mentality is idiotic if your gonna have ret be a dps spec have it compete or have a different spec

@@djhanger3035 You're trying to apply a retail like mentality on to Vanilla in regards to "specs" where in those games specs defined a class and what it could do. Think of them more as little bonuses or "icing on the cake" and round out the class. IE a Paladin excels at supporting because it's a support class, and talent trees round out the classes strengths. You're also trying to view the game through the lens of raiding/PVE when there's more to the game than that. Maybe start looking at the game as a WHOLE and classes will make a lot more sense to you. Hope that helps!

it was designed to be long. it took people months to level a toon and thats why people had "mains"

@@BudMasta it’s not a matter of months. People took months when they were teenagers with a lot of free time and too little study and exercise. From level 30 on it’s like 8 hours playtime a level if you go fast. If you are exploring and enjoying the experience it’s a lot longer. By the time you are getting to 50ish playing regularly but healthily, they are releasing TBC. I agree retail is too easy and fast, but classic era is just too long. And it’s not challenging, it’s just an endurance play. It’s not challenging to grind 263635738362662 mobs if you killed the first 3 without an issue, it’s just too many wasted hours.

@@doctorprepper8106 that was the point the main part of the game was getting to level 60 it was suppose to be a big thing that took forever. Back when WoW was released even in FPS games like battlefield it took a good year of normal play to get to the top rank and get all the unlocks.

@@doctorprepper8106 it was out over a year, plenty of people got to 60 without issue, even two 60s, you say its not hard but youre complaining about its design from 2004. gearing would easily double or triple the level time anyway. pvpers waited weeks to get upgrades. leveling was never the issue, everything in the game had value from 1-60, if you were only in the 20s for 5 hours no one would farm or care about any of the items for 20-30. its good because its a grind and everything takes forever. everything has value and meaning, professions matters, people are doing old content even if they have 60 gear, people helping others. no one even speaks on retail

@@BudMasta the time it takes from 20-30 is fine. The issue is the time it takes for 40-50 or 50-60. Yeah, plenty of people had 60s, most of them played over 5 hours a day. That’s like a job. I love the leveling experience up to 30ish. Gear matters, it’s challenging enough. Over 30 there is no difficulty added, it’s just more time consuming and that’s my point.

I loved leveling in SoD during the different phase launches. The lack of an XP boost, and the significance of random quest rewards felt so cool! Not only that but trying to get runes that were placed in higher level zones felt terrifying and required me to team up with some guildies to accomplish. I like classic wow, but SoD adds so much flavor to it that I disagree with Pallytime's conclusion(s).

Yes agrees

I raided and pvp in 2 different expansions and the classic community is cancer

Good job

Easy fix to that like I said would be that you can select ONE character at a time to get the x8 rested XP bonus. I wish I could have it for all chars but the bots will be insane at that point... not that they already arn't. It is POSSIBLE I should THINK of it like the REAL System. AKA bots are going to have LOTS of alts making arcanite bars... transmuting... mooncloth and so on. So letting humans get easy access to such abilities as well not so bad.

@@fetoid2 levelling feels perfect in sod though.

1. You rarely have PvP while leveling. Espcially if you stay out of PvP hotspots like STV. The Stam/Spirt build is SUPER good can efficiently farming just about any PvE / PvP Scenario you can find yourself in. Crowded area's... places where you can't AoE Farm... off in Narnia where normal people can't farm efficiently. It does great. Ret Paladin is HORRIBLE for PvP open world unless YOU are the one iniciating it. Unless we talkin a stam/spirt Deep Ret Paladin Horde just waits for you to be low mana to jump you. Stam /Spirt always has HIGH mana and FAST kill times making enimies not want to mess with you to much. By far the BEST paladin PvP build while leveling is a Stam/Int paladin. Second Pest is Stam/Spirt. From there you can kinda season to taste between the two... Most my guilds suggest using a mix of Stam/int and stam/spirt about 1/3 vs 2/3 or 40/60 somewhere around there. This Stam/Spirt + Int/spirt gear 1/3 2/3 is just me pushing Leveling speed and PvP safety expense.

@@pallytime2156 I’m asking about the talent specs. Sure stam/spirit or intellect. But is that retribution? Is that holy? Is that prot?

@@doctorprepper8106 You can do whatever honestly. The take away for Paladin in Classic WoW is that you do 80% of your damage butt naked with a good 2 hander and about 70% with a 1 hander. if you are in pure Str/stam gear you get a +25% bonus from all that gear. Stam/Int = +130% Mana Bar Stam/Spirt = 5MP5 per 4 Spirt (asume 50% down time on SP regen = 8 spirt = 5MP5) This is why you can do just about anythign you like. My fav is 11/X/0 You go into holy to pick up consecration as a way to turn Mana into damage... but then I made a list of places you can go while leveling to find undead / deamon mobs to fight... and suddenly exorcism is my mana to damage converter. So season to taste. It all works. The GEAR matters more then the talents.

@@pallytime2156 I see, but wouldn’t all those prot talents be wasted when I equipe a two handed weapon?

@@doctorprepper8106 Some but a lot are still really good. +3% hit is HUGE By the time the talents are REALLY being wasted you get things like Seal of Wisdom and Plate Mail... making AoE farming come online. Its really just a season to taste thing. Check out my most recent video... you can see what a stam/spirt level 40 HOLY SHOCK paladin can do with a 2 hand weapon. Should give you an idea what it looks like to do just about anything.

The video I did right before this one made be quite the game. The Real System OBLITERATED World PvP... any need to be in the OPEN world... and crammed me "a rabid PvPer" into dungeon spam. You really need to watch that one to get some context for this one. The TLDR on that one is that bosses in High Level End-game dungeons drop COINS... 1 per boss per day... that can then be turned 5 at a time for BOX that can contain every open world material you could possibley need from the open world... Fire Water? Yup its in there. Essense of Water and Air? Yes sir. It makes it so that farming the open world = 25g an hour... but dungeon grinding = 100g an hour at market values. So no one is in the open world... and its full of BOTS on a PvP Server. Meanwhile I would rather DIE then do Scholomance one more time. It also killed Dueling on PvP Servers. No need to be open world farming = no need to care about being good or getting better in a 1v1 fight. That part took my by suprise. But every design decision I am proposing here is intended to MAKE Dungeons Relevant while Leveling... MAKE open World Questing Realivent... MAKE PvErs Happy with thier wants and needs while avoiding throwing PvP balance into choas every time blizzard decides they want some "cool new ability in the game" or to "300% Buff Void Plague Damage so Shadow Priests can be DPS raid viable"

@@pallytime2156 Checked it out and yeah thanks for that context. Yikes. Turns out SoD is exactly the kind of clown fiesta I assumed it would be. (I'm an Era Andy) Tbh I would not trust those guys behind the helm of Classic+ unless they are SHOCKINGLY open about their vision and how they take feedback.

​@@Lenarian Full disclosure? What I find frustrating about the SoD dev team is that they get 80% of things RIGHT... 10% of what they get wrong = whatever... but that remaining 10% makes me feel like they are swinging for the fences in how to destroy Classic WoW. One thing that REALLY made me stay in Phase 4 was that I had made 3 videos explaining and proving in detail HOW and WHY PvP works in Classic WoW and how they were screwing it up. I made 4 suggestion how they could fix it and in Phase 4 PTR they basically did all 4... shocking the hell out of me. Effectively someone was putting there money where my mouth was... so I felt obligated to stay and math / theory craft it it out. I have faith in this teams ability to suss out PvP for Classic+ and SoD... even in original classic it took a fair bit of time before things where decent. But MAN... do they need to start worshiping at the alter of "How can we make Open World the place to be" in Classic WoW.

@@pallytime2156 That does sound slightly heartening to hear they've taken on good feedback in the past. Fingers crossed bro. PLEASE let this be what it should be. 🙏

Bro that is a TERRIABLE example of "Separation of Church and State" I quite Retail in Legion because of exactly what you are talking about so I remember it quite well. What happened was... 1. There was ZERO PvP Balance for Open World so things like Blood DK could damn near 1v5. 2. When you steped into PvP Blizzard told you gear to get bent... here are your stats now same as everyother X classic Y Spec... 3. There was a PvP Talent System seperate from the PvE talent system which everyone REALLY liked. Likes the idea that is... balance wise = couldn't tell you... the template system ruined that. The reason why this is a TERRIABLE example of the idea is because it proves the idea not disproves it. 1. PvP WITHOUT the Separtion was HORRIFICALLY bad. Open world PvP and duels completely obliterated. The separation was the ONLY thing that made it even remotely "ok" 2. I recall people complain about the template system not the separation. Aka "My Gear doesn't matter? = That Sucks... oh we have separate PvP Talent and Balance = That's cool" Honestly though I can't blame you for getting this once confused. I agree 100% that there was a separation system at play and whole thing was terriable... but there were some idea's there not worth throwing otu with the bath water. The Template + Separation system 100% Made PvP BETTER and VIABLE in Legion compared to what it was without. But it was like going from a shit sandwich to a dick and ham sandwitch. My take away was "Oh! this can be used to make things BETTER!... to bad they made dick with it..."

... Most... and I mean 90% of top tier PvPers agree that Classic WoW PvP is... 1. Some of the BEST Balanced PvP in WoW History. 2. Top 3 Best PvP experiances in WoW History. 3. Don't Touch It. 95% Chance they will make it worse not better. We all agree on this... what tends to happen though is where each person ranks Classic WoW PvP varies. We all agree that its top 3 for both of these... but 1... 2... 3... varies. My arguement is that the BEST thing Blizzard can do for Classic+ PvP = Make it Classic WoW PvP and DON'T TOUCH IT. The shear act of new content and items will = them touching it already. But the less touchy touchy the better. Arguing Classic WoW PvP needs "Balance Changes" is like arguing CHESS needs "Balance Changes" I mean maybe... but its DAMN good as is. Just leave it alone.

I have not idea how old this video is... couldn't tell you. Stam/Spirt Guide = Leveling info these days Ranking is honestly season to taste until you are like rank 13 going 14... Then its "lean to heal" so Paladin Healing in BG's Guide is the place to go. I made that video right after ranking to 13 and it was FRESH in my mind... even brough some new ideas to the PvP Healing community... like saving BoP to SELF specifically for anti warrior and Rogue. Knowing RANGES and what to use defensively at what ranges and what not too... Stuff like that. Also Repent is GREAT for healer PvP.

@@pallytime2156 Stam/spirit… what spec? Holy? Prot? Retri?

Depends what you doing. All Paladin builds have 2 Hander... 2-3 1 handers and a shield. So we talking... Edward the Odd Manslayer Flurry Axe Deathbringer For 1 handers Shield is just whatever has the msot armor... Holy Shock Likes FAST 2 Handers... Kalmindors Revenge or RAG Rag / Ashkandi / MoM / Dark Edge all good 2 Handers Even the rank gear 2 handers are good. I did a video called "Paladin Gearing in 2023" It won't have the weapons but will have most everything else about paladin PvP Gearing and why.