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The intensity for ultra running is highly fat dependent. I would imagine protein and fat being more beneficial than carbs?

I always enjoy your science based podcasts for ultrarunners. I was curious what your thoughts would be on the LMNT situation (not being forthcoming on their ingredients; claiming "natural flavors" - maltodextrin on their nutrition label) and electrolytes for athletes.

Hi! I haven’t finished watching and listening to the episode yet, but where do we place the use of fat in the performance of a trail runner nowadays, and if it’s important, how can we improve it? What do you think about training with low carbohydrates? Thanks

Need to do this with bpn

This should have more views. Great info. Especially for an aging runner that would love to reduce discomfort in ultras with a few Advils. I won't now. 👍👍

I would never blame my coach if I DNF. My coach does the best possible job to prepare me, anticipating possible problems and knowledgeable about my strengths and weaknesses, and how well I perform on any given day is on me. I am an older runner, and cut off times scare me. But I still want to participate in organized races and do the best I can, and my coach understands and supports my goals and desire.

Thanks for another awesome conversation ! In my opinion elites / sponsored athletes has the "mental ok" to DNF. Nowadays sponsors seems to be more easy going and taking their mental and physical condition on the day at stake. Their competitiveness also doesn't "allow" them to finish walking. On the other spectrum mid/back pack folks, train often a whole year for 1 or 2 events. It costs them lots of time from family and work and lots of money too (often). For them is often also the case that the event is a qualifying race and performance doesn’t really matter. I personally would never quit if not injured in respect of mine and my partners time. Elites are too pampered for good or bad 💁👶👩‍🍼 Make a promise, Write it down on your freaking hand and read it when your judgement is fuzzy ! That for me is an Elite Attitude !

Why do you call Zone 2 training a CRAZE? That's like saying eating healthy is a craze? Is brushing your teeth a craze? Craze = obsessed or deranged. Why is doing the best thing for your performance considered being deranged? How can I watch another hour of this if your saying stuff like this in the first 10 minutes?

My inner Midwesternness appreciates that the French say hello when on the trail

Hi Koops. Has the OG issue with SpringEnergy been resolved? Are there updates … or have you updated anything in your podcasts? Cheers. Nigel.

Where are the podcast links mentioned in the discussion? The KoopCast webpage shows 223 (April 2024) as the most recent episode and no links were in my podcast app.

King Oscar sardines in Olive oil for me. 2300 MG fish oil. Available at Walmart 🏊🏋🏻🧨🦊

Pork rinds for Collagen 🏊🏋🏻🧨🦊

Txs Coach

Insider Geneva airport tip: before you hit your bus/train/transfer to Chamonix, there's an actual and well stocked supermarket at the other end of the railway station, with good selection of fresh fruit and veg and salades and stuff for more reasonable prices. If you have the time to get some stuff for the road, recommend you do it there. But go to the toilet before you hit the station as the toilets are free (and generally very clean) on the airport side. Completely agree with the bonjour on the trail, drives me bonkers when people say nothing. Have a great time in the alps all.

Just wanted to thank CTS coaches and J.K. for training insides and great podcasts. Luckily I discovered "Running essentials for Ultra running 2" early 2022 which was probably the main reason I got to complete CCC. Hopefully UTMB in 2025 🖖🏼 Thanks !

Great chat team, thank you. I went over for CCC last year, traveling from New Zealand. Can confirm that it is a brutal trek, and that's before you even get to the start line 😅 Great fun though, and I will definitely be back.

Your HRV protocol sounds very similar if not identical to the “ithlete’s” HRV app many years ago… before ‘whoop’ or ‘orua’ took over HRV. I miss the old ithlete app, when it was not subscription based model.

I just finished reading your book (Great book by the way, loved it). And in it you talk about RunningIntetvals that should be 1-3min length with same recovery, does this 5minute thing change that, are you incorporating now 5min VO2 intervals into your programs?

Can someone clarify from him if the hadza diet was fatty meat or real lean meat. So was their diet low fat iron hight fat

1:02:00 where can I find the temperature profile info

Is there a difference between on how or whether you should employee these things differently if you are in a humid vs dry environment?

50+ endurance athlete here, live and train in south Louisiana where the heat and humidity are significant factors during training for most of the year. The information provided was scientifically based and exactly what I was seeking to determine whether or not to supplement with creatine. I’m on board!! Thanks

The coffee-infused gives me life!

Thank you for this great info, I’m running the race and I’m both terrified and elated!!

Great info - so helpful!

Amazing sauna at High Altitude Fitness Climbing Gym in Truckee.

This is great! I loved every minute. Probably the closest I'll ever get to running Western States.

Thanks for another great conversation! Running WS100 is a dream of mine. Hopefully I'll be lucky with the lottery next time. However, I'll not be able to afford a crew or a pacer for that matter. What are your thoughts on this type of scenario? Traveling from Europe eventually.

How crazy would someone have to be to attempt States without crew/pacer?

Awesome ! A lot of great information

Love AJW!

AJW is the man...

Fascinating discussion

A few people have been saying this is a none comparison between Untapped and Spring and other "natural" sports nutrition companies (I would like to see Koop interview other companies as well just like he does with Doug) but that is doing Doug's business a huge disservice. Yes, more ingredients add more complexity to the calculation of the nutrition label and the variability from that label but Doug explained how a company would come as close as possible to getting there, and since his business is focused on one main carb source he was able to explain brilliantly in depth and in detail of just one ingredient. Using some logic you can apply everything he said to other companies products and how they would work with multiple ingredients, if he was working with 5 different carb sources it would be no different, just repeating the same steps as he said. You need to create a spec for your product, create procedures to get your supplies within that spec if they are not within spec and pay extra and use a reputable supplier, and get a certificate of quality assurance that states the product is within a certain range of macronutrients, test the supplies yourself (water content is the big one, using spring awesome sauce as an example, they should be checking the water content of the cooked rice, apple sauce, yams and maple syrup, more water means less caloric density, as well having certificates of quality assurance from each of the suppliers), if the water content is too high they can mix it with a lower water content batch or cook the water off until it's within their spec and giving a more homogeneous product. Send the finished product it in for the full scale testing at least once or whatever the industry standard is, then if your suppliers say there is a 5% variance of the products carb content and calories, for good measurement use the lower number, calculate the lowball carb/calorie the supplier stated and subtract difference from the test, repeat for each ingredient and its low ball number, and then you have a product that should almost always be within spec (if nota little higher but since it's difficult and unrealistic to get all of the product out of package it will most likely even out) if their is no major mess ups in production or ingredient changes. It really doesn't matter if its 1 ingredient or 5 or 10, it's never going to be over a 30% difference.

definitely one of the best

I enjoyed hearing from Doug. I would be pretty confident using his product. But that’s a much simpler product than Spring, right? Why not talk to someone from a more comparable brand? Maybe Hammer, Huma, or Honey Stinger.

Applause to this CEO for being willing to be transparent in a open forum about his product and their production processes! Maybe the CEO of Spring will come on here soon...

I love how Spring is essentially silent, and meanwhile you get an interview with a company selling maple syrup as packaged sport nutrition. Just... wow. Spring really doesn't want to right the ship huh... talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm pissed off...I DNFd my first 50k tied down with spring energy gels.

Maybe it would be good for all the supplement companies to release lab results just for transparency.

This seems related to the "Bike shed" principle. The idea is that it's easier to get approval for a nuclear reactor than a bike shed. Everyone figures if you're building a nuclear then you must have done your research and planned it, and what do we know about building a nuclear reactor? But a bike shed? EVERYONE has an opinion on how to build something simple like a bike shed, so everyone weighs in. That is, calorie content is such a big deal, we don't bother to question it. Someone must have confirmed it, right?

I’ll just buy and consume three times as many Spring Energy Gels now. Thank you for the research!

I've got to wonder how Spring's pro athletes didn't realize the deficiencies of the product. I mean, they have extensive experience with other products, without a doubt... and extensive understanding of how their bodies react to each. They must have realized it was a bunk product and intake had to be almost doubled from the nutritional facts in order to meet requirements... I'm a bit surprised some of them stuck with it and represented them for so long.

They deserve to go bankrupt. They Have been cheating/ stealing from people for years. Fuck Spring Energy!

Thank you Jason for putting this out! Very informative and I agree - worth being a big issue especially if youre an elite athlete!

Very informative episode, thank you. It's surprising me that the company statement tries to explain the error away as variation (noise), rather than bias. Even IF that were true (I don't think it is, for reasons explained in the discussion) and the carb content were thus on average close to the nutrition label, error in the form of variation might well be worse than bias. You could adjust for bias (once you identified the bias) by eating an additional gel per hour. With higher variation, things are less predictable: eat two gels in an hour; you could end up getting much less carb than you need, or more carbs than you can stomach. Compare with: "If two felons who both should be sentenced to five years in prison receive sentences of three years and seven years, justice has not, on average, been done. In noisy systems, errors do not cancel out. They add up." ('Noise' by Daniel Kahneman, Olivier Sibony, Cass R. Sunstein.)

This situation brings many questions to the forefront of my mind and I’ll list them here. First, when and who (which lab) certified the 1st Spring nutrition label? Second, how often does a product need to be re-certified? I assume processes and ingredients, if not suppliers of ingredients, change so it would make sense that the certification should be reassessed periodically, right? I would like Spring to answer at least what they have done (certification and the lab). If it was a lab error, Spring is arguably innocent, right? I saw an earlier comment which I also thought, didn’t the athletes train with the products they will race with? So if they didn’t get their carbs in training wouldn’t they have sensed something wrong well before the race Koop? You can answer to that at least. My final question which is big, if Spring is so off, let’s test other nutritional gels because maybe this is an industry-wide practice whether consciously or not. Koop, please test other brands products and let us know what those results are as well. Spring might be the lightning rod but maybe they are no different from every other brands’ products in terms of of faulty nutritional labeling.

Didn;t these athletes train with the product???

So why did you send the products in the first place??? Did you just start to question the product???