As far as Polaris goes, I believe you are spot on. There are so many references to the North Star or Northern Pillar throughout ancient cultures and mythology/theology. One additional data point I would add is that in the era of the titans, the Northern Pillar during the castration had two names. Koios and Polus. The latter meaning the Axis of Heaven. The point where the stars revolved. In addition, the Polaris chant mirrors this idea. When Jesse meets Jesse-Polaris, she is chanting, "Grow Brighter. Around one Constant they revolve." One additional thing on Polaris that I would argue is that Polaris is greater than Jesse's Jungian Self, but Jesse's Self is Polaris. The aspect of Polaris that Jesse is tuned with is only one small aspect of the greater entity. Her own Guardian Angel/Djinn so to speak. In many cultures the Guardian Angel is not seperate from us, but part of us. Our Superconscious/Jungian Self. In regards to Thomas Zane, I feel we still need more information for his character. If we go by the hypothesis that that we use for Polaris, then Zane would be Alan made perfect. However, within the story, Zane is an example not of what Alan should strive to be, but what not to be. His mistakes are the central point of most of the drama. Cynthia mentions that Alan is a smarter man that Tom in the sense he won't make the same mistakes. If we consider Zane the mentor character we must classify which type he is. Either he is the Mentor who was a former successful hero here to aid the new hero. This is the Hermit/Fool card comparisons. Or he is the failed Hero who now that he has learned from his mistake is able to guide a hero to treasures he could not achieve himself. In This House of Dreams, it is mentioned that the Zane we see in Alan Wake is not really him. Just like the Dark Presence took the form of Barbara, a Bright Presence took the form of Zane. Hence the bright light. In this sense, maybe the Bright Presence can be considered Alan's Jungian Self? Apologies for rambling. There is a lot of really good info in this video I wanted to comment on. Great work!
Love both of you guy’s videos and analysis What do you think that Thomas Zane has a romantic history with both Baba Yaga and the Light Lady in these aspects? Seems like personification of Good / Evil Archetypes IMO I feel as this alludes to some meaning of Thomas Zane
Man you nailed what I was missing right on the head once again. I knew there was something In This House of Dreams that would better explain Zane. And this is perfect referrals. I do have a question about Control's lore...have you read the Our Whereabouts Dead Letter? And have you looked into the plasma/brain cell comparison to the sun+moon are composed of plasma and what is this implying? I started to actually look into it and if there is something to this IRL I am awfully curious. But I need someone a little smarter than me to help me understand in lamens terms if it's not just a rabbit hole.
Just a note, Polaris couldnt be a Djinn, because iranian/arabic tradition positions them as angels fallen from God's grace. In any case an iranian angel for example would be: فرشته or fereshté. I think it would have to be not only an angel but the most revered, because she is the Director, which we would then say her angel might be Ahora Mazda. IMHO.
In our culture a djinn is an Entity that lives in a parallel universe born from capable of self thought (a conscious being) neither good nor bad its shades of gray like all we are with different races, religions and beliefs. But what differs is that the djinn are able to see us and have extremely limited capacity of influence in this realm, hence Muslim djinn are allowed to observe but never interfere (its gods demand so they show there piety )as for other djinn some choose not interfere while other that westerners call them devils do choose interfere and there form interference is whispers to try and manipulate men(I mean it in a non gender related way) and provoke them to do evil deeds our exert negative emotions of hatred. As I said they whisper either like an ear worm a mantra you here in or they manifest and talk to you warp your heart but never interfere themselves, and that is why we also believe that devils (Shaitan) can be either human or djinn in my culture as we are also hold the power of the word. Honestly I believe in the power of words one can save while another can doom. As for guardian angels we believe that every man (again non gender related) has a pair of angels we call the scribers as one writes the good deeds we do and the other writes bad ones. And every man has an appointed devil his consort which is his ear worm. Also the ego is an enemy too as it wants to not be the self (basically surrendering to our animalistic instincts). For the guardian it is the deity alone himself is guardian for all who ask. Once again the power of the word. As you ask and he gives the word and so strings fate are weaved into motion to fulfill your need and not your want. Sorry for the long paragraphs and excuse my bad English grammar. Anyway love both of your work
So side note on the Thomas Zane theory, when Alan Wake first comes to Bright Falls and meets the brothers Thor & Odin they say "It's been a long time, Tom. Good to see you".
I have a feeling Zane is now a pawn of darkness and Alan created the Zane that helped him, a poet. But in the world he had hired Alan Wake on Night Springs. I think Zane is going to use Wake to free himself and (Barbara/The Darkness) in the short story about the woman who had Zane's cardboard box with a picture of them. I believe there was a line that said he's been warped so much that any attempt of his to get out of the dark place he will free the Darkness. But I could be wrong. They do say he is a screenwriter. But I can see how Zane is Wakes creation to help him get out. But Zane gives him Mr. Scratch and that dude is evil. So why did Zane do this if he is in fact good or at least a part of Alan?
The name “Jesse” also happens to mean “gift of God” and her [original] surname of “Faden” (German, translated to English) means “thread”. EDIT: Also, forgot to mention that Jesse’s brother Dylan’s name means (roughly) “born from the ocean” perhaps another tie-in to Wake’s “not a lake, but an ocean” concept.
I always assumed Polaris is just the player. The way she has that internal "not" monologues adressing polaris as "you" even before you know how Jesse calls "you" with no ingame Polaris response, the only voice you hear is you saying "just get on with it" + how Jesse says Polaris guides her, like the player does + the name of the game is literally Control + Remedy's love for meta references feel to me that at least they wanted to give a hint of that in this first game. Maybe it will change later , but in this one game, that is how I read it.
We might never hear Polaris respond to Jesse but we do see it. Her visual representation always appears on screen when Jesse reacts as if Polaris had just talked to her
@@ThisDoeb But that is not a problem. Just like any other character in interactive fiction, you're them/control them only for the in-universe time the story takes place in, not before, not after, for hopefully obvious reasons.
I love your idea about Polaris, I had a very similar theory. My idea: Polaris and Hiss don't have a conscioussnes, they are like virus, they just seek for hosts. The thing Jessie speak with is born from Hedron's resonance effects on her mind. In the game, Darling explain that Hedron's resonance "shows things" and expands the mind of the host, giving them knowledge. But the conscious mind of Jessie can't accept this knowledge as her own (maybe becaeuse it's too much for a young girl), so she created a persona, Polaris, that knows everything the resonance has shown. I never used the word "Self", but it's basically the same thing: the perfect Jesse, the one who knows.
A brilliant and genius theory, I tend to agree. There are clues scattered throughout the game that head towards your theory. I love how Control never gives you a definite explanation, you must theorize and look deep into to find and answer that makes sense. Amazing video as always I was happy to receive the notification.
Great etymology for Thomas Zane! It has basically been revealed through the Alan Wake phone calls in Control, that Wake, when out of time, contained within the Dark Place, wrote the entire plot leading up to Alan Wake as well as Control, all in an attempt to escape the Dark Place. This video is awesome though, please keep going!
I'm gonna need some time to process this, but... dude, the conclusion literally gave me goosebumps. Well done. I was a bit disappointed that the AWE DLC didn't give us more info on Alan Wake than it did, but at least it strongly hints that there's a lot more to come.
I really like how you explained things here. I hope you continue this trend more (explaining psychology through games)... I hope other viewers see this. If this hypotheses are close to being true, then Control is by far the most complex game (in concept) that I've ever played. Really appreciate this.
I haven't actually watched this video as I haven't played Control yet. Just came to like to help out with the algorithm seeing as you're slowing down with the uploads 👍🏻
Am I the only one who thinks that the "Zane" version of Alan at the beginning of the AWE DLC wasn't Zane at all but just Mr. Scratch messing with Alan? There is a file you can pick up towards the end of the DLC that pretty much says Alice is still being attacked by Mr. Scratch.
What if Mr. Scratch actually is Thomas Zane or more accurately what he become after years in dark place and whole Alan wake story was Scratch/Zane plan to escape and replace himself with Alan
I thought the dlc "Zane" was either Mr. Scratch or something to do with Hartman. Maybe they just sounded similar but I thought that "Zane" and Hartman in the dlc had the same voice, implying an attempt to control Alan, also considering he was the main antagonist of the dlc. Also they were clearly able to get James McCaffrey for control so why wouldn't they get him again as "Zane" if that was the same one?
I don't think that is Mr. Scratch scaring Alice, Alan makes it pretty clear he needed Alice to go to the FBC, so what better way than to scare her into doing so?
Comment from the future. The whole Alice situation is tragic. Mr. Scratch is pretty prominent in Alan Wake II, and it's pretty clear that Scratch and Zane are not the same. At least not in the way that you're thinking.
I am personally under the belief that Thomas Zane is an entity outside of Alan altogether, and that the Thomas Zane that we see in Alan Wake and the Thomas Zane we see in Control are two separate entities. At the end the of the special episode The Writer, Thomas guides Wake to the lighthouse and ultimately to the cabin so that the good half of Alan’s psyche could join back with his physical body. Mr. Scratch, the dark half of Alan’s psyche, is yet to be dealt with properly, especially since Alan Wake’s American Nightmare isn’t canon. Between the events of Control and Alan Wake, something has rewritten Thomas Zane in the universe from being this famous but mostly forgotten poet to a European filmmaker, as can be seen in the prime candidate program in control as well as in the AWE dlc. When we see Alan talking to “Zane” in the dlc cutscene, he references that he is a filmmaker and that the poet persona is just a character he played in one of his films. Yet “Zane” wears the body of Alan Wake, and is coaxing him to continue writing while still trapped in the dark threshold. Perhaps it’s a shallow interpretation or it’s too straightforward, but it would seem that between the events of Alan Wake and Control, while Alan has been stuck in the threshold, Mr. Scratch has been rewriting reality and trying to interfere with the lives of those who knew Alan under the guise of Thomas Zane. We also know from the AWE dlc that this Mr. Scratch/“Zane” entity has been trying to interact malevolently with Alice Wake night after night. One final note, in the brief Alan Wake II teaser trailer, Alan’s voiceover refers to a monster, where the camera switches from his face to that of a monstrous Alan, most likely this Mr. Scratch/“Zane” entity
@@maxderrat The original is really goofy and weird, the Return is crazy, a whole different show. Twin Perfect made an analysis about it, and specifically Lynch's many comments about the Collective Unconscious
I think you'd like it. Im going through Gaming University's Alan Wake playlist and Twin Peaks is obviously related, the concept of Night Springs especially, a show within a show. Twin Peaks has something very similar.
I think that the comparison with Polaris / the archetypal Self in great, and makes a lot of sense. One thing I would add to the Polaris as Mandala comparison is that Mandala typically have perfect radial symmetry, whereas the representations of Polaris that we see appear as Spirals, rather than perfect mandalas. But That seems to echo / rhyme with the Spiral motifs we see in Alan Wake 2. Obviously this video was made before AW2 came out, and I think that game sheds some additional light on Thomas Zane. We still don't know for sure what he is. It does feel like he is linked to Alan - I think the evidence for this is undeniable, but to me it seems like it might be more symbolically than literally. For instance, we are given the impression that "Thomas Zane" actually refers to more than one character. There was a real life artist named Zane who really did stay at Bird Leg Cabin and really did write poetry. But then we have the other Toms (which... I'm not entirely convinced that they're all the same): The bright presence / Diver Tom, who we see in the form of a poetry-spouting point of light as early as Wake's dream (before he begins writing Departure, but AFTER he has already set foot on Cauldron Lake, so to speak. He dreams this while on the Ferry to Bright Falls). Then we have the Alan-clone Tom we see in the AWE DLC, who sounds and acts different from Diver Tom, and has more in common with Scratch in some ways. Then we have Tom the filmmaker (who may be the same as the one in AWE) who is present in Alan Wake 2 at the hotel. Then we have the supposed real-life filmmaker Tom who lived in the mansion that became Valhalla Nursing Home, who may be the same as the Dark Place version we meet at the hotel as well. My point is that Tom is ambiguous in some ways, and seems to be mercurial and nebulous. Hard to pin down. But he is depicted as a human with his own life, his own name, his own story and follies, loves and losses, etc. yet we aren't given a clear picture of what this was beyond the first game. I could be persuaded that the non-real-life Toms we see are perhaps an aspect of Wake's psyche, maybe related to his archetypal Self in a similar way to Polaris. But Polaris feels more like an abstract entity, not a person, and when it manifests in Jesse at the end, it is Jesse, not some other human. In some ways, Scratch appears to be Wake's foil in an almost opposite direction to Jesse's "Jesse Polaris" - made of the self, named the same, but manifest from Archetypal essence. It's just that Scratch is the Shadow, and Polaris is the Superego / Self. So where does that leave Tom? I think it's really hard to tell... Remedy is playing at something, but like an elusive fish, I just can't seem to catch it.
Tom created Alan Wake and Alan is basically him, Ahti calls Alan Tom, they look the same, their story is very similar, he basically created Alan Wake to get out the same way Alan Wake made Saga come to Bright Falls to make him out, the difference is that Tom was even more powerful than Alan is since he was changing reality worldwide and not on a single place, and to the point of creating his own image on Alan Wake and making him an artist too. For what I understand Tom is just crazy now after all those decades inside and the last bit of sanity we see of Tom is him saving Alan at the first game.
This makes sense very much to me , I always suspected that too , without knowing the full reason but for me the thing was , throughout the control i was trying to imagine control as Quantum break 2 , which rumors pointed that too , so I always see quantum break as a potential source for the story and surprisingly enough the story of Beth is also exact the same , beth guide is also herself from the future
(As a note, I haven't seen or played Alan Wake 2 yet. Just drawing from the games from before then for this observation) As I stated in another comment and go expand upon here, Barbara Jaeger in this analogy is Alan's Jungian Shadow. The suppressed subconscious self-destructive aspect of Alan that resists the difficult struggle to approach the Self and sink into oblivion either by actual death, or release into Alan's worst nature ala Mr. Scratch. Like a wish from the monkey's paw, Barbara opens the narrative by providing Alan's worst impulses by removing Alice when he is angry at her and giving him his creativity back but cursed it to bring horrors to life. The narrative of Alan Wake is him undoing that unasked for wish. Mr. Scratch of course is the "other face" Barbara promised to take after her destruction. One can destroy a manifestation of the Shadow but it will simply reform so long as the elements of that part of a person still exist. Alan managed to overcome his worst qualities temporarily to save Alice but ultimately it sucked him back in as shown in the Writer/Signal DLC. The events of "American Nightmare" are another failed attempt to destroy the Shadow. So long that Alan sees his worst aspects as separate from himself, they will continue to manifest as a malevolent entity plaguing him and what he loves and given the cosmic level power Alana has, the world.
Great video! I think that control is a game that contains many of the concepts of the psychoanalytic theory, especially those related with the ID’s influence and the importance of the shadow in the path to consciousness.
Now that Alan Wake II is out, I'd love an update to the Zane theory. The new stuff doesn't disprove this conjecture, but there's a lot of added context that implies that there's something different going on between Wake and Zane, such as Ahti, Tor, and Odin all referring directly to Wake as "Tom." What I actually think is going on is that Thomas Zane was the original, and is the first (and perhaps the final) version of Wake. This is possible because time apparently is meaningless, or at least more of a suggestion, within the dark place as Alan is able to trigger the events of Alan Wake II and arguably Control from an entirely different point in time. Additionally, Ahti, along with some other characters, reference Alan giving them explicit instructions that Alan currently doesn't remember giving them. Now these insturctions COULD actually be a certain other character who you find out in the after-credits scene is involved, but they could also just as easly be coming from a future-Alan/Zane who had to turn around and set things up so that they would happen a specific way. I think the Thomas Zane we see in Alan Wake is either his end state, or an in-between for Alan and the original Zane. The Thomas Zane that we see in the Control DLC and Alan Wake II is the original Zane, as he seems far more unhinged and enthralled by the dark pressence than Alan is.
Thomas Zane created Alan Wake, and Alan Wake created the fundation and everything that happens at Control. Polaris might just be a being he created to help her just like Thomas Zane helped Alan. While Tom objetive seems to escape now (while on the original game was simply to safe a copy version of Barbara, Alice, just like Alan is a copy of himself), but the objetive of Polaris is literally guide her to make everything click to make Alan Wake escape. What Thomas did was literally created a new universe where he did not exist but Alan did, which is basically him on all form and shape, but changing some parts like his past to make him a new person also. The lore for the games are really good, they only need to focus on the Gameplay lol
Commenting for the algorithm ♡. btw you should check out a game called the suffering and suffering ties that bind, I'm sure you're gonna love that type of game and it'd be really cool to see you analizying it and interpreting the hidden meaning it has, like you did with spec ops and silent hill 😬
Hmm. I like this theory - especially with regards to Polaris, it's something that I have suspected in the past but didn't really have any evidence to go on. You've made it a lot more clear.
This makes a lot of sense. Especially thinking that Jesse was either created or her world was altered by Alan Wake. So much of her character and powers come from the Stephen King universe. She has all the psychic powers of someone who shines. We find out that Danny Torrance's imaginary friend Tony is just how a 5 year old experiences his ESP ability. Jesse and Dylan both have this ability. They were possibly taught to use it by an inter dimensional entity when they were kids, they just thought they were still talking to that being instead of their own self
For Wake and Zane, I'm not convinced it's entirely spot on. I feel it's more along the lines of an Orobouros, with Alan and Thomas both being responsible for writing eachother into existence. Outside of their stories, they both lived their own lives, but the stories they wrote quite literally brought life to them. Alan wrote Zane into his stories as a way to save his wife, but it was Zane who wrote the clicker into existence, and gave it to Alan in the form of a childhood weapon. I feel like the stories may have actually gone deeper into the creation, and they didn't just modify the story of an existing person, but actually created eachother. Then you have Mr Scratch, which could very well be seen as the personification of Alan's id, or maybe even the collective id.
Even though this is a year later and I do agree with some points but I do think Polaris is more than just Jesse’s Jungian(??) self. I think that Polaris like the hiss is a type of resonance. Unlike the hiss she is not demanding control. I think she helped both Jesse, Dylan, and Darling alongside Hedron. I think Dylan’s misery/being a threshold kid was a form of trauma for him, he and Trench let the Hiss in. Polaris has something to do with resonance and my only frame of reference is that she would have to to be an opposing force to the Hiss whose resonance plays a big part of its powers and taking over the human. Regardless an awesome video, and points were definitely made here. I enjoyed this
Polaris is an entity just like the Hiss. Except where you are made of flesh and blood, these entities are made of resonance from a different plane. Polaris represents consonance, hiss is dissonance. Polaris shapes itself to fit the host resonance, the Hiss forces the host to overwrite itself.
Hey Max, so I reccommend watching the Sound Alchemy Documentary. It answers a lot of questions you and Uberboyo had when discussing the new age Aquarius. You can find it here on TH-cam.
With regard to mandalas, it's likely these are inspired by Form Constants, geometric patterns perceived by the brain when hallucinating, or sometimes during migraine episodes. They're quite fascinating, and give us a glimpse into the architecture of our shared human psychology. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant
@jack thursby good to see civility in the comments section. The SCP Foundation is dope btw. Jung is annoying to constantly hear about (especially the same like 2 books)
Small connection to a tabletop RPG that I like, Mage: The Ascension: Polaris would be Jessie's Avatar, the embodiment of her Awakened soul and the personification of her magic. (All of what Jessie does would fall under the Forces sphere of magic) although given the nature of the FBC and such, she would be more likely a Technocrat (mages who pushed Science as the consensus and thus the paradigm of the world and no longer believe or remember that they are in fact mages and view what they do as Enlightened Science instead) and Polaris would be her Genius instead.
Not sure why but just recently I’ve played Control again, the ultimate edition in order to platinum it (which I did) but once I’d finished it, Jesse’s name did not appear as Jesse Polaris 😧 when I’d finished it on the PS4 it did! Has this happened to anyone else?!
i'd like to wonder if the Anderson Bros. are really The Norse gods, when Ahti gives you the portable stereo he says, "it's a gift from some old friends" and the song you listen is from the band "The Old Gods of Asgard", many people said that Ahti is himself a deity as he's based off some old Finnish deity so it makes sense he would know the norse gods and that he really meant what he said.
I think that you're largely right, especially in terms of the ideas that inspired the game, and maybe it's all just semantics, but I didn't interpret that scene as Jesse's name having become "Jesse Polaris", but more as Polaris' name becoming "Jesse Polaris". In my interpretation, Polaris represents an ultimate idea of the higher self in general, and not just Jesse's in particular. The scene took place inside of Jesse's head, and she looked up to witness a vision of herself floating inside of Polaris. I interpret that scene to have three entities in it- Jesse, Jesse's higher self, and Polaris. I think at that moment, Jesse was seeing a visual representation of her higher self merging with Polaris, and this is where she stopped referring to Polaris as a secondary entity. Given that Polaris existed in the slidescape before meeting Jesse, and that Polaris touched both Jesse and Dylan, I feel that Polaris was an entity who helped Jesse reach her higher self, rather than being a literal representation of Jesse's higher self. Polaris could have possibly had a similar effect on Dylan if things had gone differently for him, as it did seem that he maintained contact with Polaris for a number of years after the Ordinary AWE.
I'm convinced, makes the most sense.. tho polaris was a started experience with Jesse's bro... Tho they had a weird blended mentioning of their names, as if interchangeable
as stated by this house of dreams, the thomas we have seen, in the alan wake game at least, is not the real one. the real zane created a new world and took his as his wife's soul to live there. leaving behind their bodies in the lake. his wife's body was taken by the dark presence, while his was taken by the light one, which believes to be zane. chances are that this zane alan sees now, the one who looks like him, is nothing more than another creation of alan's who may be aware of the possibility that he was created by the original zane. alan probably believes (or knows) that he is just a copy of zane, and without ever seeing a picture of what zane looks, he probably just assumes that they both look the same. anything is possible
I kept thinking Alan Wake was Polaris and him writing the story. But the collective unconscious thing helps with it being Zane. Maybe next Remedy game we get will be a God (Zane, Polaris) trying to escape from some prison. Makes sense. I mean, why is Ahti trapped in the House? He's a Finnish God.
well i spected that was pretty clear polaris is a mental force that focus and armonize , the idea of cooexistance and simbiosis. While the hiss (noice , static) cant be clearer ,psiquic entropy. Eddit also in 8:50 most religious or sacred beings of occidental religion have halos over them usualy with that shape. For me is just a universal symbol of clarity or sacred.
I didn't have subtitles on so I didn't see that it was "Wake" talking or "Jesse Polaris". I don't think you should have to have subtitles on to get some small details in a game. I always turn them off to make the game more cinematic.
So i think polatis is an entity that materialized in the AWE from ordinary. The other one that did was the hiss. In my hypothesis jesse is actually not related to polaris in any way but is actually the same person as his suposed brother, but his brother materialized in the AWE and jesse remembers him as if he where real. He is IMO jesse's shadow and she has to fight with that shadow in order to be the director / help polaris against the dark forces. Only one that can surpass the shadow could be the director
DO NOT watch gaming university's videos, I was binge watching his control lore videos and about half way through his collection I started shivering and felt cold like something was onto me or something is hiding and watching me, I ended up hiding on my bed and fell asleep, stuff like this never happened to me before (it's hot summer here and the fact I was okay with wrapping/hiding myself with blanket blows my mind) look I'm not saying he's hiding manipulative or suggestive queue in his vids but his works are making me both physically/mentally uncomfortable. I mean there's no one there to stop you but you've been told. stick to Max's vids
Now that I think about it, there's this like old home detailers shop in my country, it's named Polaris and its logos is mandalaesque... Maybe my jungian self is supposed to be an independent construction contractor, or something IDK
Real late to the game with here, but the influence of Finnish Mythology shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m only peripherally aware of the myths from my days deep diving Tolkien’s influences, but their creation myth literally revolves around a pillar at the North Pole between earth and the pole star, holding up the sky. And that “cosmic mandala”, that whirl of stars, is the entrance to the land of the dead. Only mention it on account of the first character you meet in the game being a Finnish sea god.
I absolutely roll my eyes when someone brings up that silly lunatic Jung, but only when applied to real-life. Fictional stories is a whole different matter; Fiction is the only where Jung's Archetypes are applicable and SHOULD be applied! Cause here's a fact about Jung's Archetypes; Not his. He lifted them from someone else's philosophies that are also NOT applicable to reality, but perfectly suited for fictional stories. Although I don't use them myself or might agree with it, I have no idea why your viewers would roll their eyes at you Archetyping correctly...
Remedy loves their Scandanvian folklore, and mythology. They intertwine Norse mythology into all of their works. Anti in the Oldest House Foundation shows you that the Oldest House is Yggdrasil, and the Oldest house’s connection to other dimensions are at least in this games lore the 9 realms, with the Oldest House’s location in NYC/Earth is Midgard. I bet you Control 2 will expand on this. I believe Thomas Zane, and Polaris are a version of the Norns. The Hiss can be seen as an extension or sort of offspring of Loki. Jesse Faden with the service weapon can be the version or extension of Thor with the service weapon being a version of Mjolnir.
How about Polaris and Thomas Zane being Jesse's "higher" self? (u just said it) higher self meaning her/or wake's souls that continue existing beyond the physical world
The titlescreen looks like Heisenberg's certain uncertainty principle. Or is it Schrodinger's equation? Whatever. 10/10 would see god for a quarter again.
Polaris is could be Gnostisim's Sophia (A Lesser Aeon). Hiss are mostlikely either Archons created by the flawed Demiurge Yaldabaoth who was spawned by Sophia. Or maybe even Yaldabaoth himself. Thats why Polaris/Sophia are trying to stop and seal the Hiss. Polaris cannot be Jessie Faden's inner self, because Hiss recognized her immediately and were enraged by her. It is also clear that resonance kown as Polaris and resonance known as Hiss have previous history together. Also, at some point Polaris was together with both Jessie and Dylan after they met Her in dimention locked inside Slide 36. How can Jessie's inner self be inside herself and her own brother? Polaris gotta be its own entity. In Gnostisism Aeons are described as huge coiled snakes made of light. Thats exactly how we see Polaris in Control as ever shifting, infinite coils.
I think this could make sense. I am not an expert on Jung's theories, but I think it would make sense. The Hiss turn those that are consumed by them into violent, horrific monsters, just as the shadow of a person that overtakes them (when not properly incorporated) turns them into a monster. The HRAs (which has a direct metaphysical connection to Polaris, as both originate from Hedron) could be saying something about preventing shadow takeover. However, Jung also often discussed that to reach your full self (Self-Actualization) you would have to incorporate your shadow, whereas in Control it is about the elimination of the Hiss. Perhaps there is a more abstract way to view the elimination of the Hiss as a form of incorporation, but that way of viewing is not something I can do yet.
@@AstralBelt I love your interpretation. Jung also studied Eastern philosophy. In Daoism, the duality of the Yin/Yang. One cannot exist without the other. If we use that concept in Control. Without the Hiss, their will be no Polaris. If they're making a control 2. Like you ponder, is there a method to incorporate the Hiss. So many questions.
As far as Polaris goes, I believe you are spot on. There are so many references to the North Star or Northern Pillar throughout ancient cultures and mythology/theology. One additional data point I would add is that in the era of the titans, the Northern Pillar during the castration had two names. Koios and Polus. The latter meaning the Axis of Heaven. The point where the stars revolved. In addition, the Polaris chant mirrors this idea. When Jesse meets Jesse-Polaris, she is chanting, "Grow Brighter. Around one Constant they revolve."
One additional thing on Polaris that I would argue is that Polaris is greater than Jesse's Jungian Self, but Jesse's Self is Polaris. The aspect of Polaris that Jesse is tuned with is only one small aspect of the greater entity. Her own Guardian Angel/Djinn so to speak. In many cultures the Guardian Angel is not seperate from us, but part of us. Our Superconscious/Jungian Self.
In regards to Thomas Zane, I feel we still need more information for his character. If we go by the hypothesis that that we use for Polaris, then Zane would be Alan made perfect. However, within the story, Zane is an example not of what Alan should strive to be, but what not to be. His mistakes are the central point of most of the drama. Cynthia mentions that Alan is a smarter man that Tom in the sense he won't make the same mistakes. If we consider Zane the mentor character we must classify which type he is. Either he is the Mentor who was a former successful hero here to aid the new hero. This is the Hermit/Fool card comparisons. Or he is the failed Hero who now that he has learned from his mistake is able to guide a hero to treasures he could not achieve himself.
In This House of Dreams, it is mentioned that the Zane we see in Alan Wake is not really him. Just like the Dark Presence took the form of Barbara, a Bright Presence took the form of Zane. Hence the bright light. In this sense, maybe the Bright Presence can be considered Alan's Jungian Self?
Apologies for rambling. There is a lot of really good info in this video I wanted to comment on. Great work!
Love both of you guy’s videos and analysis
What do you think that Thomas Zane has a romantic history with both Baba Yaga and the Light Lady in these aspects? Seems like personification of Good / Evil Archetypes IMO
I feel as this alludes to some meaning of Thomas Zane
Man you nailed what I was missing right on the head once again. I knew there was something In This House of Dreams that would better explain Zane. And this is perfect referrals. I do have a question about Control's lore...have you read the Our Whereabouts Dead Letter? And have you looked into the plasma/brain cell comparison to the sun+moon are composed of plasma and what is this implying? I started to actually look into it and if there is something to this IRL I am awfully curious. But I need someone a little smarter than me to help me understand in lamens terms if it's not just a rabbit hole.
Just a note, Polaris couldnt be a Djinn, because iranian/arabic tradition positions them as angels fallen from God's grace. In any case an iranian angel for example would be: فرشته or fereshté. I think it would have to be not only an angel but the most revered, because she is the Director, which we would then say her angel might be Ahora Mazda. IMHO.
In our culture a djinn is an Entity that lives in a parallel universe born from capable of self thought (a conscious being) neither good nor bad its shades of gray like all we are with different races, religions and beliefs.
But what differs is that the djinn are able to see us and have extremely limited capacity of influence in this realm, hence Muslim djinn are allowed to observe but never interfere (its gods demand so they show there piety )as for other djinn some choose not interfere while other that westerners call them devils do choose interfere and there form interference is whispers to try and manipulate men(I mean it in a non gender related way) and provoke them to do evil deeds our exert negative emotions of hatred.
As I said they whisper either like an ear worm a mantra you here in or they manifest and talk to you warp your heart but never interfere themselves, and that is why we also believe that devils (Shaitan) can be either human or djinn in my culture as we are also hold the power of the word.
Honestly I believe in the power of words one can save while another can doom. As for guardian angels we believe that every man (again non gender related) has a pair of angels we call the scribers as one writes the good deeds we do and the other writes bad ones.
And every man has an appointed devil his consort which is his ear worm.
Also the ego is an enemy too as it wants to not be the self (basically surrendering to our animalistic instincts).
For the guardian it is the deity alone himself is guardian for all who ask. Once again the power of the word. As you ask and he gives the word and so strings fate are weaved into motion to fulfill your need and not your want.
Sorry for the long paragraphs and excuse my bad English grammar.
Anyway love both of your work
Would it not be more accurate to say Zane is perhaps Alan's Shadow?
So side note on the Thomas Zane theory, when Alan Wake first comes to Bright Falls and meets the brothers Thor & Odin they say "It's been a long time, Tom. Good to see you".
I've long been convinced since AW1 that Thomas Zane wrote his own resurrection as Alan Wake, which had some side-effects (like Mr. Scratch).
Even Remedy's game engine, is called Northlight Engine.
Damm you are so right
. _ .
Sons of bitches. lol.
That's not the reason why the character's name is Polaris, since the story was written in 2015.
@@SamcaraBut the engine could have been named because of it.
Good to see that Control is getting attention lately. It is very underrated imo.
It was close to winning game of the year. I don’t personally think it’s underrated at all. It’s a great game and it seems many know it
Glad they announced a second one
I don't think that Zane and Polaris are really Alan and Jesse's guides to "Self". But this out-of-universe symbolism is really great
I have a feeling Zane is now a pawn of darkness and Alan created the Zane that helped him, a poet. But in the world he had hired Alan Wake on Night Springs. I think Zane is going to use Wake to free himself and (Barbara/The Darkness) in the short story about the woman who had Zane's cardboard box with a picture of them. I believe there was a line that said he's been warped so much that any attempt of his to get out of the dark place he will free the Darkness. But I could be wrong. They do say he is a screenwriter. But I can see how Zane is Wakes creation to help him get out. But Zane gives him Mr. Scratch and that dude is evil. So why did Zane do this if he is in fact good or at least a part of Alan?
Zombie Hippo i don’t think its a coincidence that “zane” and “mr scratch” look like Wake.
Chester Bless anyone?
The name “Jesse” also happens to mean “gift of God” and her [original] surname of “Faden” (German, translated to English) means “thread”.
EDIT: Also, forgot to mention that Jesse’s brother Dylan’s name means (roughly) “born from the ocean” perhaps another tie-in to Wake’s “not a lake, but an ocean” concept.
I always assumed Polaris is just the player. The way she has that internal "not" monologues adressing polaris as "you" even before you know how Jesse calls "you" with no ingame Polaris response, the only voice you hear is you saying "just get on with it" + how Jesse says Polaris guides her, like the player does + the name of the game is literally Control + Remedy's love for meta references feel to me that at least they wanted to give a hint of that in this first game.
Maybe it will change later , but in this one game, that is how I read it.
The player is also directly addressed in Alan Wake. Barbara/Darkness stares straight at the camera and says, "you!"
that was also my interpretation
We might never hear Polaris respond to Jesse but we do see it. Her visual representation always appears on screen when Jesse reacts as if Polaris had just talked to her
That's a really cool idea, but Jesse said Polaris had been with her since she used the projector when she was a kid.
@@ThisDoeb But that is not a problem. Just like any other character in interactive fiction, you're them/control them only for the in-universe time the story takes place in, not before, not after, for hopefully obvious reasons.
I love your idea about Polaris, I had a very similar theory.
My idea: Polaris and Hiss don't have a conscioussnes, they are like virus, they just seek for hosts. The thing Jessie speak with is born from Hedron's resonance effects on her mind. In the game, Darling explain that Hedron's resonance "shows things" and expands the mind of the host, giving them knowledge. But the conscious mind of Jessie can't accept this knowledge as her own (maybe becaeuse it's too much for a young girl), so she created a persona, Polaris, that knows everything the resonance has shown.
I never used the word "Self", but it's basically the same thing: the perfect Jesse, the one who knows.
Polaris is shown as Spiral, and Alan Wake 2 ends with "It is not the loop, itis a spiral." ;)
A brilliant and genius theory, I tend to agree. There are clues scattered throughout the game that head towards your theory. I love how Control never gives you a definite explanation, you must theorize and look deep into to find and answer that makes sense. Amazing video as always I was happy to receive the notification.
"Is not a loop. Is a spiral."
Polaris is represented as a spiral.
Great etymology for Thomas Zane! It has basically been revealed through the Alan Wake phone calls in Control, that Wake, when out of time, contained within the Dark Place, wrote the entire plot leading up to Alan Wake as well as Control, all in an attempt to escape the Dark Place. This video is awesome though, please keep going!
I'm gonna need some time to process this, but... dude, the conclusion literally gave me goosebumps. Well done.
I was a bit disappointed that the AWE DLC didn't give us more info on Alan Wake than it did, but at least it strongly hints that there's a lot more to come.
I really like how you explained things here. I hope you continue this trend more (explaining psychology through games)...
I hope other viewers see this. If this hypotheses are close to being true, then Control is by far the most complex game (in concept) that I've ever played.
Really appreciate this.
I haven't actually watched this video as I haven't played Control yet. Just came to like to help out with the algorithm seeing as you're slowing down with the uploads 👍🏻
Dude... thank you so much. :'( You really understand how things work on TH-cam... so seeing you show up to do this means you really care.
Commented for TH-cam Algo, +1.
This guy gets it.
Am I the only one who thinks that the "Zane" version of Alan at the beginning of the AWE DLC wasn't Zane at all but just Mr. Scratch messing with Alan?
There is a file you can pick up towards the end of the DLC that pretty much says Alice is still being attacked by Mr. Scratch.
It wouldn't surprise me. Something was MAD sketchy about the "Zane" there.
What if Mr. Scratch actually is Thomas Zane or more accurately what he become after years in dark place and whole Alan wake story was Scratch/Zane plan to escape and replace himself with Alan
I thought the dlc "Zane" was either Mr. Scratch or something to do with Hartman. Maybe they just sounded similar but I thought that "Zane" and Hartman in the dlc had the same voice, implying an attempt to control Alan, also considering he was the main antagonist of the dlc. Also they were clearly able to get James McCaffrey for control so why wouldn't they get him again as "Zane" if that was the same one?
I don't think that is Mr. Scratch scaring Alice, Alan makes it pretty clear he needed Alice to go to the FBC, so what better way than to scare her into doing so?
Comment from the future. The whole Alice situation is tragic. Mr. Scratch is pretty prominent in Alan Wake II, and it's pretty clear that Scratch and Zane are not the same. At least not in the way that you're thinking.
I am personally under the belief that Thomas Zane is an entity outside of Alan altogether, and that the Thomas Zane that we see in Alan Wake and the Thomas Zane we see in Control are two separate entities. At the end the of the special episode The Writer, Thomas guides Wake to the lighthouse and ultimately to the cabin so that the good half of Alan’s psyche could join back with his physical body. Mr. Scratch, the dark half of Alan’s psyche, is yet to be dealt with properly, especially since Alan Wake’s American Nightmare isn’t canon. Between the events of Control and Alan Wake, something has rewritten Thomas Zane in the universe from being this famous but mostly forgotten poet to a European filmmaker, as can be seen in the prime candidate program in control as well as in the AWE dlc. When we see Alan talking to “Zane” in the dlc cutscene, he references that he is a filmmaker and that the poet persona is just a character he played in one of his films. Yet “Zane” wears the body of Alan Wake, and is coaxing him to continue writing while still trapped in the dark threshold. Perhaps it’s a shallow interpretation or it’s too straightforward, but it would seem that between the events of Alan Wake and Control, while Alan has been stuck in the threshold, Mr. Scratch has been rewriting reality and trying to interfere with the lives of those who knew Alan under the guise of Thomas Zane. We also know from the AWE dlc that this Mr. Scratch/“Zane” entity has been trying to interact malevolently with Alice Wake night after night. One final note, in the brief Alan Wake II teaser trailer, Alan’s voiceover refers to a monster, where the camera switches from his face to that of a monstrous Alan, most likely this Mr. Scratch/“Zane” entity
Well thankfully I've watched enough Twin Peaks analysis that I get this, heh, thank you for your work Max!
Damn, I really need to watch that show.
@@maxderrat The original is really goofy and weird, the Return is crazy, a whole different show. Twin Perfect made an analysis about it, and specifically Lynch's many comments about the Collective Unconscious
Max Derrat Yes go down that marvelous rabbit hole. It’s a great show to watch during the fall and winter. 🖖
I think you'd like it. Im going through Gaming University's Alan Wake playlist and Twin Peaks is obviously related, the concept of Night Springs especially, a show within a show. Twin Peaks has something very similar.
One of the few youtubers i give a like before I even see the video because I know it will be a fascinating watch/listen.
Thank you for your work Max, brilliant as always 🥺
Great video. Another connection to "north" is the first Director, Northmoor. But I am sure you already knew that :)
I think that the comparison with Polaris / the archetypal Self in great, and makes a lot of sense. One thing I would add to the Polaris as Mandala comparison is that Mandala typically have perfect radial symmetry, whereas the representations of Polaris that we see appear as Spirals, rather than perfect mandalas. But That seems to echo / rhyme with the Spiral motifs we see in Alan Wake 2.
Obviously this video was made before AW2 came out, and I think that game sheds some additional light on Thomas Zane. We still don't know for sure what he is. It does feel like he is linked to Alan - I think the evidence for this is undeniable, but to me it seems like it might be more symbolically than literally. For instance, we are given the impression that "Thomas Zane" actually refers to more than one character. There was a real life artist named Zane who really did stay at Bird Leg Cabin and really did write poetry. But then we have the other Toms (which... I'm not entirely convinced that they're all the same): The bright presence / Diver Tom, who we see in the form of a poetry-spouting point of light as early as Wake's dream (before he begins writing Departure, but AFTER he has already set foot on Cauldron Lake, so to speak. He dreams this while on the Ferry to Bright Falls). Then we have the Alan-clone Tom we see in the AWE DLC, who sounds and acts different from Diver Tom, and has more in common with Scratch in some ways. Then we have Tom the filmmaker (who may be the same as the one in AWE) who is present in Alan Wake 2 at the hotel. Then we have the supposed real-life filmmaker Tom who lived in the mansion that became Valhalla Nursing Home, who may be the same as the Dark Place version we meet at the hotel as well.
My point is that Tom is ambiguous in some ways, and seems to be mercurial and nebulous. Hard to pin down. But he is depicted as a human with his own life, his own name, his own story and follies, loves and losses, etc. yet we aren't given a clear picture of what this was beyond the first game.
I could be persuaded that the non-real-life Toms we see are perhaps an aspect of Wake's psyche, maybe related to his archetypal Self in a similar way to Polaris. But Polaris feels more like an abstract entity, not a person, and when it manifests in Jesse at the end, it is Jesse, not some other human. In some ways, Scratch appears to be Wake's foil in an almost opposite direction to Jesse's "Jesse Polaris" - made of the self, named the same, but manifest from Archetypal essence. It's just that Scratch is the Shadow, and Polaris is the Superego / Self.
So where does that leave Tom? I think it's really hard to tell... Remedy is playing at something, but like an elusive fish, I just can't seem to catch it.
Tom created Alan Wake and Alan is basically him, Ahti calls Alan Tom, they look the same, their story is very similar, he basically created Alan Wake to get out the same way Alan Wake made Saga come to Bright Falls to make him out, the difference is that Tom was even more powerful than Alan is since he was changing reality worldwide and not on a single place, and to the point of creating his own image on Alan Wake and making him an artist too. For what I understand Tom is just crazy now after all those decades inside and the last bit of sanity we see of Tom is him saving Alan at the first game.
WHY THE HELL IS THIS CHANNEL SO UNDERRATED!!!!
Great Video! The Explanation Is very clear and simple.
I always love hearing the demon souls menu music... So peaceful.
I can not spend enough money in one week to afford playing these games and there dlc fast enough , these explinations have sold me
The one thing I get from this is that the game devs put a lot of effort in their works, and lots of it goes unappreciated.
@11:18 little bit of a stretch with Thomas in Aramaic meaning twin, when the word is closer to "Te'ome" and Zane [Zain] means beauty/grace
Great video man. I hope you're doing well.
Thanks for watching it, bro! I am doing alright at the moment. :)
Zane (Zayn/Zain) only means "beauty" or "grace". Nothing to do with God. A small yet important detail.
I don't even play these games, but hearing you talk about them is just enjoyable
This makes sense very much to me , I always suspected that too , without knowing the full reason but for me the thing was , throughout the control i was trying to imagine control as Quantum break 2 , which rumors pointed that too , so I always see quantum break as a potential source for the story and surprisingly enough the story of Beth is also exact the same , beth guide is also herself from the future
I love your videogame theories and explanations. You really are one of the best at that
(As a note, I haven't seen or played Alan Wake 2 yet. Just drawing from the games from before then for this observation)
As I stated in another comment and go expand upon here, Barbara Jaeger in this analogy is Alan's Jungian Shadow. The suppressed subconscious self-destructive aspect of Alan that resists the difficult struggle to approach the Self and sink into oblivion either by actual death, or release into Alan's worst nature ala Mr. Scratch. Like a wish from the monkey's paw, Barbara opens the narrative by providing Alan's worst impulses by removing Alice when he is angry at her and giving him his creativity back but cursed it to bring horrors to life. The narrative of Alan Wake is him undoing that unasked for wish.
Mr. Scratch of course is the "other face" Barbara promised to take after her destruction. One can destroy a manifestation of the Shadow but it will simply reform so long as the elements of that part of a person still exist. Alan managed to overcome his worst qualities temporarily to save Alice but ultimately it sucked him back in as shown in the Writer/Signal DLC. The events of "American Nightmare" are another failed attempt to destroy the Shadow. So long that Alan sees his worst aspects as separate from himself, they will continue to manifest as a malevolent entity plaguing him and what he loves and given the cosmic level power Alana has, the world.
Great video! I think that control is a game that contains many of the concepts of the psychoanalytic theory, especially those related with the ID’s influence and the importance of the shadow in the path to consciousness.
Now that Alan Wake II is out, I'd love an update to the Zane theory. The new stuff doesn't disprove this conjecture, but there's a lot of added context that implies that there's something different going on between Wake and Zane, such as Ahti, Tor, and Odin all referring directly to Wake as "Tom." What I actually think is going on is that Thomas Zane was the original, and is the first (and perhaps the final) version of Wake. This is possible because time apparently is meaningless, or at least more of a suggestion, within the dark place as Alan is able to trigger the events of Alan Wake II and arguably Control from an entirely different point in time. Additionally, Ahti, along with some other characters, reference Alan giving them explicit instructions that Alan currently doesn't remember giving them. Now these insturctions COULD actually be a certain other character who you find out in the after-credits scene is involved, but they could also just as easly be coming from a future-Alan/Zane who had to turn around and set things up so that they would happen a specific way.
I think the Thomas Zane we see in Alan Wake is either his end state, or an in-between for Alan and the original Zane. The Thomas Zane that we see in the Control DLC and Alan Wake II is the original Zane, as he seems far more unhinged and enthralled by the dark pressence than Alan is.
Love your content and been enjoying the Twitch content as well.
Thomas Zane created Alan Wake, and Alan Wake created the fundation and everything that happens at Control. Polaris might just be a being he created to help her just like Thomas Zane helped Alan. While Tom objetive seems to escape now (while on the original game was simply to safe a copy version of Barbara, Alice, just like Alan is a copy of himself), but the objetive of Polaris is literally guide her to make everything click to make Alan Wake escape. What Thomas did was literally created a new universe where he did not exist but Alan did, which is basically him on all form and shape, but changing some parts like his past to make him a new person also. The lore for the games are really good, they only need to focus on the Gameplay lol
Polaris is not a loop, Polaris is a spiral.
Commenting for the algorithm ♡.
btw you should check out a game called the suffering and suffering ties that bind, I'm sure you're gonna love that type of game and it'd be really cool to see you analizying it and interpreting the hidden meaning it has, like you did with spec ops and silent hill 😬
Hmm. I like this theory - especially with regards to Polaris, it's something that I have suspected in the past but didn't really have any evidence to go on. You've made it a lot more clear.
i love your videos and i love it to hear SH Music on the most of your videos!
This makes a lot of sense. Especially thinking that Jesse was either created or her world was altered by Alan Wake. So much of her character and powers come from the Stephen King universe. She has all the psychic powers of someone who shines. We find out that Danny Torrance's imaginary friend Tony is just how a 5 year old experiences his ESP ability. Jesse and Dylan both have this ability. They were possibly taught to use it by an inter dimensional entity when they were kids, they just thought they were still talking to that being instead of their own self
For Wake and Zane, I'm not convinced it's entirely spot on. I feel it's more along the lines of an Orobouros, with Alan and Thomas both being responsible for writing eachother into existence. Outside of their stories, they both lived their own lives, but the stories they wrote quite literally brought life to them. Alan wrote Zane into his stories as a way to save his wife, but it was Zane who wrote the clicker into existence, and gave it to Alan in the form of a childhood weapon. I feel like the stories may have actually gone deeper into the creation, and they didn't just modify the story of an existing person, but actually created eachother.
Then you have Mr Scratch, which could very well be seen as the personification of Alan's id, or maybe even the collective id.
Goosebump material. Thanks :)
Great video mate
It's pretty obvious. Thomas Zane = Sane Twin. Part of Alan stays sane in the Dark Presence chamber and helps Alan wake up.
Even though this is a year later and I do agree with some points but I do think Polaris is more than just Jesse’s Jungian(??) self. I think that Polaris like the hiss is a type of resonance. Unlike the hiss she is not demanding control. I think she helped both Jesse, Dylan, and Darling alongside Hedron. I think Dylan’s misery/being a threshold kid was a form of trauma for him, he and Trench let the Hiss in. Polaris has something to do with resonance and my only frame of reference is that she would have to to be an opposing force to the Hiss whose resonance plays a big part of its powers and taking over the human. Regardless an awesome video, and points were definitely made here. I enjoyed this
Polaris is an entity just like the Hiss. Except where you are made of flesh and blood, these entities are made of resonance from a different plane.
Polaris represents consonance, hiss is dissonance. Polaris shapes itself to fit the host resonance, the Hiss forces the host to overwrite itself.
Hey Max, so I reccommend watching the Sound Alchemy Documentary. It answers a lot of questions you and Uberboyo had when discussing the new age Aquarius. You can find it here on TH-cam.
I would love to hear talk about some of the jungian concepts in tool’s Aenima album.
With regard to mandalas, it's likely these are inspired by Form Constants, geometric patterns perceived by the brain when hallucinating, or sometimes during migraine episodes. They're quite fascinating, and give us a glimpse into the architecture of our shared human psychology.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant
Control is deeply influenced by the SCP Foudation, it whould be interesting if you drew some comparisons between them.
@jack thursby good to see civility in the comments section.
The SCP Foundation is dope btw. Jung is annoying to constantly hear about (especially the same like 2 books)
Yeah. Remedy took insprsrion from SCP, X-files, DooM & many physiology books.
Small connection to a tabletop RPG that I like, Mage: The Ascension: Polaris would be Jessie's Avatar, the embodiment of her Awakened soul and the personification of her magic. (All of what Jessie does would fall under the Forces sphere of magic) although given the nature of the FBC and such, she would be more likely a Technocrat (mages who pushed Science as the consensus and thus the paradigm of the world and no longer believe or remember that they are in fact mages and view what they do as Enlightened Science instead) and Polaris would be her Genius instead.
Not sure why but just recently I’ve played Control again, the ultimate edition in order to platinum it (which I did) but once I’d finished it, Jesse’s name did not appear as Jesse Polaris 😧 when I’d finished it on the PS4 it did!
Has this happened to anyone else?!
i'd like to wonder if the Anderson Bros. are really The Norse gods, when Ahti gives you the portable stereo he says, "it's a gift from some old friends" and the song you listen is from the band "The Old Gods of Asgard", many people said that Ahti is himself a deity as he's based off some old Finnish deity so it makes sense he would know the norse gods and that he really meant what he said.
“Every child has a mother or father…”
2022 collective conscious: “Hold my beer…”
And then… THE MESSAGE!
I think that you're largely right, especially in terms of the ideas that inspired the game, and maybe it's all just semantics, but I didn't interpret that scene as Jesse's name having become "Jesse Polaris", but more as Polaris' name becoming "Jesse Polaris". In my interpretation, Polaris represents an ultimate idea of the higher self in general, and not just Jesse's in particular.
The scene took place inside of Jesse's head, and she looked up to witness a vision of herself floating inside of Polaris. I interpret that scene to have three entities in it- Jesse, Jesse's higher self, and Polaris.
I think at that moment, Jesse was seeing a visual representation of her higher self merging with Polaris, and this is where she stopped referring to Polaris as a secondary entity. Given that Polaris existed in the slidescape before meeting Jesse, and that Polaris touched both Jesse and Dylan, I feel that Polaris was an entity who helped Jesse reach her higher self, rather than being a literal representation of Jesse's higher self. Polaris could have possibly had a similar effect on Dylan if things had gone differently for him, as it did seem that he maintained contact with Polaris for a number of years after the Ordinary AWE.
Also, I'm just accustomed to the term "higher self", but I'm referring to the same Jungian self as you are here.
i will only smile at the application of Carl Jung, thank you
I too been playing control's dlc and trying to figure out the connection thanks max
if Thomas is Alan's Higher Self or Jungian Self, then Mr Scratch (from Alan Wake's American Nightmare) must be his Shadow
It's interesting how much Jung's work has influenced different media. I'm here for it. Keep up the great work.
i'd love to know what you think about the duality of max payne and alex casey
Hey Max are you doing a video on the last of us 2?
I'm convinced, makes the most sense.. tho polaris was a started experience with Jesse's bro... Tho they had a weird blended mentioning of their names, as if interchangeable
as stated by this house of dreams, the thomas we have seen, in the alan wake game at least, is not the real one. the real zane created a new world and took his as his wife's soul to live there. leaving behind their bodies in the lake. his wife's body was taken by the dark presence, while his was taken by the light one, which believes to be zane. chances are that this zane alan sees now, the one who looks like him, is nothing more than another creation of alan's who may be aware of the possibility that he was created by the original zane. alan probably believes (or knows) that he is just a copy of zane, and without ever seeing a picture of what zane looks, he probably just assumes that they both look the same. anything is possible
I speak Arabic and zane doesn't mean nothing about god 💀
Max unpacking Jung in real time.
I kept thinking Alan Wake was Polaris and him writing the story. But the collective unconscious thing helps with it being Zane. Maybe next Remedy game we get will be a God (Zane, Polaris) trying to escape from some prison. Makes sense. I mean, why is Ahti trapped in the House? He's a Finnish God.
11:13 Zane doesn't mean "god is greatouis" in arabic in fact it doesn't mean anything in arabic because it's not a word
Love this.
Love YOU! :D
@@maxderrat
@@maxderrat
Love your video 😍😎🔥
Im quite curious, in Aion you showed the North as a rather malevolant being, yet here it is showns as a guidant light.
well i spected that was pretty clear polaris is a mental force that focus and armonize , the idea of cooexistance and simbiosis. While the hiss (noice , static) cant be clearer ,psiquic entropy.
Eddit also in 8:50 most religious or sacred beings of occidental religion have halos over them usualy with that shape. For me is just a universal symbol of clarity or sacred.
That light in the sky looks a lot like the eye of The Former. Is there any connection?
how deep does Rabbit hole goes.. played this game. fucking mind blowing
it almost seems like the player is Polaris but, i might be wrong
I didn't have subtitles on so I didn't see that it was "Wake" talking or "Jesse Polaris". I don't think you should have to have subtitles on to get some small details in a game. I always turn them off to make the game more cinematic.
1:55 I expected a bend, not a hairpin turn😂
So i think polatis is an entity that materialized in the AWE from ordinary. The other one that did was the hiss.
In my hypothesis jesse is actually not related to polaris in any way but is actually the same person as his suposed brother, but his brother materialized in the AWE and jesse remembers him as if he where real.
He is IMO jesse's shadow and she has to fight with that shadow in order to be the director / help polaris against the dark forces. Only one that can surpass the shadow could be the director
HE MENTIONED HE SETS IT UP WE DO IT WE MAKE IT, IT ONG I SEEEEEEE AHHHHHHHH
DO NOT watch gaming university's videos, I was binge watching his control lore videos and about half way through his collection I started shivering and felt cold like something was onto me or something is hiding and watching me, I ended up hiding on my bed and fell asleep, stuff like this never happened to me before (it's hot summer here and the fact I was okay with wrapping/hiding myself with blanket blows my mind)
look I'm not saying he's hiding manipulative or suggestive queue in his vids but his works are making me both physically/mentally uncomfortable. I mean there's no one there to stop you but you've been told. stick to Max's vids
gaming university causes corona virus confirmed
@@gurglinghermits3043 .........
Spoiler alert: Brother in Christ, Polaris is Jesse, Polaris is You
Now that I think about it, there's this like old home detailers shop in my country, it's named Polaris and its logos is mandalaesque... Maybe my jungian self is supposed to be an independent construction contractor, or something IDK
Real late to the game with here, but the influence of Finnish Mythology shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m only peripherally aware of the myths from my days deep diving Tolkien’s influences, but their creation myth literally revolves around a pillar at the North Pole between earth and the pole star, holding up the sky. And that “cosmic mandala”, that whirl of stars, is the entrance to the land of the dead.
Only mention it on account of the first character you meet in the game being a Finnish sea god.
I absolutely roll my eyes when someone brings up that silly lunatic Jung, but only when applied to real-life. Fictional stories is a whole different matter; Fiction is the only where Jung's Archetypes are applicable and SHOULD be applied! Cause here's a fact about Jung's Archetypes; Not his. He lifted them from someone else's philosophies that are also NOT applicable to reality, but perfectly suited for fictional stories.
Although I don't use them myself or might agree with it, I have no idea why your viewers would roll their eyes at you Archetyping correctly...
Good for you?
Remedy loves their Scandanvian folklore, and mythology. They intertwine Norse mythology into all of their works. Anti in the Oldest House Foundation shows you that the Oldest House is Yggdrasil, and the Oldest house’s connection to other dimensions are at least in this games lore the 9 realms, with the Oldest House’s location in NYC/Earth is Midgard. I bet you Control 2 will expand on this. I believe Thomas Zane, and Polaris are a version of the Norns. The Hiss can be seen as an extension or sort of offspring of Loki. Jesse Faden with the service weapon can be the version or extension of Thor with the service weapon being a version of Mjolnir.
How about Polaris and Thomas Zane being Jesse's "higher" self? (u just said it) higher self meaning her/or wake's souls that continue existing beyond the physical world
The titlescreen looks like Heisenberg's certain uncertainty principle. Or is it Schrodinger's equation?
Whatever. 10/10 would see god for a quarter again.
Polaris is could be Gnostisim's Sophia (A Lesser Aeon). Hiss are mostlikely either Archons created by the flawed Demiurge Yaldabaoth who was spawned by Sophia. Or maybe even Yaldabaoth himself. Thats why Polaris/Sophia are trying to stop and seal the Hiss.
Polaris cannot be Jessie Faden's inner self, because Hiss recognized her immediately and were enraged by her. It is also clear that resonance kown as Polaris and resonance known as Hiss have previous history together.
Also, at some point Polaris was together with both Jessie and Dylan after they met Her in dimention locked inside Slide 36. How can Jessie's inner self be inside herself and her own brother? Polaris gotta be its own entity.
In Gnostisism Aeons are described as huge coiled snakes made of light. Thats exactly how we see Polaris in Control as ever shifting, infinite coils.
I'm doing my part.
I’d love if they made the berserk game if another one is made. Remedy or From Software
1:58 My answer was going to be "The path of least resistance" - But I like yours better hehe. Man, I have so much to learn.
Polaris is an excellent exotic scout rifle.
Is that a Destiny reference?
@@maxderrat Yeppers, love that game, I mean the pvp is in a bad place right now but, it's still fun.
What about Jesse Dylan Faden? The implication that they are the same person.
Ego and Shadow, maybe
I am thou, thou art I.
11:18 i need to correct the Zane is a name in Arabic means the beautiful or the good person.
holy. freakin. moly. 😵
If Polaris is the higher-self than would the Hiss be what Jung described as the shadow?
I think this could make sense. I am not an expert on Jung's theories, but I think it would make sense. The Hiss turn those that are consumed by them into violent, horrific monsters, just as the shadow of a person that overtakes them (when not properly incorporated) turns them into a monster. The HRAs (which has a direct metaphysical connection to Polaris, as both originate from Hedron) could be saying something about preventing shadow takeover. However, Jung also often discussed that to reach your full self (Self-Actualization) you would have to incorporate your shadow, whereas in Control it is about the elimination of the Hiss. Perhaps there is a more abstract way to view the elimination of the Hiss as a form of incorporation, but that way of viewing is not something I can do yet.
@@AstralBelt I love your interpretation. Jung also studied Eastern philosophy. In Daoism, the duality of the Yin/Yang. One cannot exist without the other. If we use that concept in Control. Without the Hiss, their will be no Polaris. If they're making a control 2. Like you ponder, is there a method to incorporate the Hiss. So many questions.