Nice to hear your thoughts Chris, interesting that you found it best for crit racing. I really like my Toa, I know it’s not the lightest bike (particularly with my frame size and build) but it’s super comfortable, handles well, confidence inspiring on descents and still exciting when I want it to be. I’ll be racing it for the first time tomorrow, looking forward to it.
I think the funniest part to this review is you have to explain in writing how you got the bike and have a disclaimer. People its a bike review not a gun to your head and buy it. @Chris Miller Cycling gives his opinion not all will agree but he at least rides the bikes how they're meant to be ridden and that's better than some TH-camrs that review bikes. Great video Chris keep up the good content.
Hi Chris, direct mount rim brake Huru for me comfort is great on the flats and wait until you get it in hills …..try it out. Less expensive also. Thanks for the video I nearly purchased a Toa but restricted to disc was the killer. Not everybody shoots down mountains (Perth is flat with hills)
I think its too heavy for that build spec. What happens when you run 105 and box rims ... ouch. Im no a weight weenie but my own disc brake bike; Ultegra, Hunt 54's, Alloys bars etc comes in at 7.7kg and it cost me a fraction of the price! Just some thoughts.
It will certainly appeal to a select few considering the cost. Many people don't 'weigh' bikes and I'm sure if they are looking for a exclusive bike brand then it will be a consideration. I have read many bike reviews over the years and just because they write for a mag/cycle website doesn't mean they are more qualified or better than you. Very often they give their view based on one ride and quite often have to 'tow the line' so not to upset any brands. Having watched and listened to you, you are always transparent and give a view based on your experience whether that is good or bad. Reviews are very difficult to do as they are subjective, and if I ever did one the first thing I would do is weigh it!! It will be interesting to see if or how the bike does over a few rides/races.
You are wrong. Most of the other reviewers are not more professional than you. Most are shills for the manufacturers, some worse than others. Example-- One who is prominent on TH-cam was pushing ceramic bearings -- for the steering apparatus! Your reviewers are honest.
I think you and your team will be a good tester/endorser for this brand so people don’t just buy a bike because of its glossy look but the performance based on real data.
Great stuff Chris. Good review. What a lovely machine. What I found confusing when I looked at the Chapter 2 website was that it was just frames. I don’t have the experience to do a bike build, and I’m sure there’s plenty of folks like that too. It wasn’t clear to me from the Chapter 2 website if they have partners who can do a build on customers behalf and how to assess what the finished bike configuration would consist of and cost.
Thank Rex, that actually means a lot coming form you. From what I understand, that is where the retailers are designed to come in and fill the gap. I know here in Sydney there are a few, like Embassy over on the dark side … I mean Mosman, that are well suited to it. That said, that naming structure is impossible. Thanks again for your comment. Chris.
In Brisbane, Tandem Co is well known for building Chapter 2 bikes. It is a lot easier and more economical than buying a bare frame and building it up yourself (unless you already have a groupset & wheels).
1st- looks like you need to brush up on your Te Reo, might help navigate the site (tbh, I'd probably be lost as well) 😉 2nd- "holds speed ", gets a thumbs up from me 🤣 Good honest review, like the style 👍🍻
@@ChrisMillerCycling you are one of my go to cycling TH-camrs as well as the vegan cyclist ,,,I do hope he is as nice as he seems , and Dave Arthur , I can always count on very good content from you , I’m just a cycling nut from the northern rivers
I'm an old MTBer with an old roadbike and looking for something newer. But I'm confused by the geo numbers here. Specifically the reach and top tube numbers. The reach (552mm) and the top tube (542mm) are only 10mm different. I thought reach was the horizontal distance from the center of the BB to the centre of the top of the head tube. On a mountain bike you add the reach and the stem length, and you have a good idea how stretched out you are going to be. Is it different for road bikes? I guess the hoods on road bikes put you a bit further out in front of the stem, a bit like bar ends used to do. Does that mean the reach is the BB to steerer distance, plus the stem length, plus another figure for the distance from the centre of the stem clamp to where the hoods will sit? Cheers
Am I doing this all backwards? ………..maybe I bought a Chapter2 Koko at the TDU in January this year, and am only now, looking at the reviews. I was a little sceptical at first, but after meeting Mike Pryde a couple of times. Riding the bike, and taking to people around the event who were riding the C2 bikes, I was comfortable that this was the right choice for me. I am 56 years old. I do race… a little. I like Gran Fondo events and am pretty fit for someone in my demographic (179cm/69kg) I love this bike!! After 5 years on a Giant Propel, I wanted to stay with an aero bike, but wanted a little more comfort, and a little less weight. The contenders were another propel (the new 2023 model) or the Canyon Aeroad. The Propel was “unobtainium” in Jan/Feb. After watching the Pro’s in action in the TDU the Canyon was looking a little chunky and as it really hadn’t changed much in 4 or 5 years, a little dated. The Canyon was also unavailable…. Even to test ride. Someone suggested I try the Chapter 2 & even let me take their bike for a quick spin. A couple of days later I was laying down a deposit and 6 months down the track I couldn’t be happier 😊
They are great bikes aren’t they. So many people dismiss Chapter 2 as a boutique brand with pretty paint, but the Toa and Koko seem to be particularly good bikes.
Thanks BBM … production value went to 11 for this ie. I wore a chest GoPro mount for a day and suffered the strange looks of cyclists and pedestrians alike 😎
weight is very important for the cashed up mamil as much easier to walk up the hills. cm you've done a great review excellent manner - however how could chapter expect people to buy a frameset only for $5K+ is there even a build option? canyon would be their market competitor and they do it much better from what I can see. I just buy Giant's from LBS and never have any issues, especially with my pocket.
I think Canyon are a different market tbh. Chapter 2 selling frame-only means you only have the option of a custom build, so either to do that yourself or go to one of the shops/workshops that sell Chapter 2 and have them build to your spec (this works out more economically than it may first seem). Canyon is about buying a complete bike with different levels of specification, Chapter 2 is much more about getting something unique and custom - the limited run paint jobs go with that too. In saying all of that, I find the Toa a very nice bike to ride (and quick) so I think it is more than just a nice paint job. Also the frame prices are a little deceptive. Looking at the Canyon Ultimate, in a similar build it would cost more than what my Toa build did - and all the Canyons are out of stock. I only waited a few days for my Toa!
@@discbrakefan buying a frameset (so building a bike from scratch) would be in the domain of an experienced cyclist, and an experienced cyclist aren't going to go the chapter2 path in consideration of the price and what's on offer by other brands, (Giant Propel Adv sl 1 2022 for example) and amazingly it has wheels lol. So that leaves the 'newer' cashed up cyclist now who could be bothered sourcing parts particularly in this climate [and having the required product knowledge] when yes amazingly you can buy a complete bike ready to ride, I don't get it sorry. good luck bike looks great.
@@marcus_velo_9970 It’s not one or the other (buying complete or self build). A local shop builds up bikes to custom specs and do Chapter2. For me that worked out well with a favourable price when compared to similar specs in other brands. I am an experienced cyclist and have ridden brands including Giant, Specialized and Bianchi (for context).
I agree with their naming structure being very confusing and their website doesn’t help to work out what the hierarchy is for their product lines. I’ll be building a new bike in the next 6-9 months and had considered this brand but the confusion put me off.
@@ChrisMillerCycling I was thinking the same. Negativity aside, I do love that it’s a product from an Australasia company and that’s a little different to the the bikes from bigger brands that all look the same.
@@ChrisMillerCycling The geometry is quite different for the Koko, more aggressive. I think the Koko is their "aero race bike" and the Toa is their more all-round option with slightly more relaxed geometry.
At that price, I don't know.....ever swing a leg over a BMC Teammachine SLR FRS? The frameset fetches 2,299.00CHF. Over half a pound lighter... But nice to have yet another option that isn't Specialized Trek or Giant....That said, I would love to own a Giant TCR :S
@@ChrisMillerCycling You have made really good points in the past about the perception of aero gains for pros vs amateurs which I firmly believe, and largely both the TCR and Teammachine are going to be very racy bikes, and maybe not the best suited for amateurs, but about as close without tipping into the confused "endurance bike category"...we just end up riding them with a chimney worth of headset spacers under the stem...but I do believe they're tried and true all-arounders. I believe the biggest benefit is in compliance with the massive tire clearance, and both of these deliver as well. I just wish I could get rid of my Bianchi. It was a gift from my wife during the pandemic so i wasn't able to ride before to buy, and I am not in love with it. It looks great, but its a bit hefty, clunky even w/ full Ultegra and just doesn't have a refined ride quality that I would expect from a such a legendary brand. I've always wanted a TCR or Teammachine, and previously owned a SuperSixEvo rim brake, and I believe these two bikes carry that same essence. Fast, light, agile, comfortable..just a hard bike to fault.
@@cpt.slackbladder3187 All aero bikes are coming out with disc now. But the Koko is Chapter 2's "aero bike". It's definitely a little more weighty than some other options, but it's in the range of a typical disc-brake, electronic groupset bike.
I think you’re confusing numbers in the geometry. The SuperSix has a top tube of 546 (4mm longer). It’s the seat tube that’s 515. Compared to the SuperSix Evo the Toa is basically the same - just a few mm here and there but all in proportion. It’s the seat angle that’s the main difference, Toa is steeper. You say the Toa is an endurance bike but this puts its dimensions squarely in the race camp. Something like a Canyon Endurace or Cannondale Synapse has a much higher stack.
It’s quite similar geometry to a Supersix Evo, yes. Just a bit taller in the stack than a Tarmac, TCR, Ultimate, Emonda, etc. But still lower than the endurance marketed frames.
Ok, so I am told it isn’t an open mould, but … ok to play devils advocate on this, would that actually be such a bad thing anyway? I mean the open mould is popular and has some R&D to it. That’s probably a VLOG for another day, but if it was the motor vehicle industry, they would be proudly claiming they use shared technology.
@@ChrisMillerCycling if its open mould you can buy it on aliexpress from the manufacturer for $500 USD. Who remembers NOVE charging $4000 for the Light Carbon frameset, what happened to them. I feel bad for people suckered into stuff like this. Cycling doesn't have to be this expensive but its become a literal marketing scam. If it was automotive, it would be like someone reselling a honda for 4X the price with mercedes badges on it.
@@discbrakefan LOL David, you really think a small brand like Chapter 2 has the resources to do R&D and create a frameset. If it is not open mould, they simply went to a factory in china and picked a frame from a factory's catalogue they could have the rights to. You are delusional if you think Chapter 2 had any input in creating this frame.
hmm... IF I'm spending the money of a superbike which is what the frame with parts would cost (8-10k USD) idk man I would have a hard time picking an off brand frame.. Could have a supersix evo frame... s-works tarmac frame even. Lot of money to gamble. IMO 🤔
… and ultimately that is the challenge for this brand. I even found myself looking at Canyons and Cannondales the other day, simply because I felt I ‘trusted’ the performance. I hate to admit it, but this was because i see the bike in the world tour.
@@ChrisMillerCycling thats nice to hear:P. I mean if you are riding the national hill climb championships as a sub 60kg climbing specialist, sure I guess weight matters! But I would argue that for the average Joe 500g more or less in total weight don't make a noticeable or measurably difference in day to day riding or even racing. If you do the math, saving 3-4 watts will almost always be more beneficial than saving a full Kilo on the bike...
20 years ago: we can built a bike with that frame below 7kg. Now these days: We are able to built a a bike below 8kg. I call that progress. Nevertheless it is an absolut beautiful bike and my super six is not my lightest, but definitely my fastest bike ever.
Yip another fantastic bike , but Way Overpriced , sure life time guarantee on the frame and a beautiful paint job, but after a year of racing it will probably be all scratched so what does it matter , like so many bike brands these bikes a marketed at the over 45 cafe rider who does one Fondo ride a year and has more money than sense, No wonder so many people I know and myself are looking at buying a bike from Yoeleo or Winspace ,🤨
Which comparable frames are cheaper? Also, it’s not so bad when you buy the bike from a shop who can put a build together, the price is more reasonable than what the frame alone suggests.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Typo is something when you write something wrong, not when you read it loud the same mistake confidently. Instead of messing with a 'keyboard warrior' (as per you), you should be thankful that your reach & stack info got sorted for life because of him (and you know it from inside). Good luck!
Honestly it people like you that make trying to share content on TH-cam really difficult. I am not a shop, I am not a brand, I am trying to make entertaining videos for a pretty small audience. So you really lean (rightly or wrongly) on the supportive feedback of your community. I hope you had fun with your snarky comment and sleep well every evening knowing you have successfully made me question why I bother to do this. Peace. Chris
@@ChrisMillerCycling Glad mate that you accepted the mistake. Agreed that you make entertaining videos, so stick to your strength. That's what I was trying to point out. I used to watch your videos because you love cycling as a sport, if you really want to review videos then get your shit right otherwise there are plenty of channels doing that. I was not here to see wrong geo info kind of video at the first place. I was here to see entertaining cycling content. Cheers!
Nice to hear your thoughts Chris, interesting that you found it best for crit racing. I really like my Toa, I know it’s not the lightest bike (particularly with my frame size and build) but it’s super comfortable, handles well, confidence inspiring on descents and still exciting when I want it to be. I’ll be racing it for the first time tomorrow, looking forward to it.
Hey David, thanks for your comment. Really interested to hear your thoughts as you spend more time on it. Thanks David.
I think the funniest part to this review is you have to explain in writing how you got the bike and have a disclaimer. People its a bike review not a gun to your head and buy it. @Chris Miller Cycling gives his opinion not all will agree but he at least rides the bikes how they're meant to be ridden and that's better than some TH-camrs that review bikes. Great video Chris keep up the good content.
Hi Chris, direct mount rim brake Huru for me comfort is great on the flats and wait until you get it in hills …..try it out. Less expensive also. Thanks for the video I nearly purchased a Toa but restricted to disc was the killer. Not everybody shoots down mountains (Perth is flat with hills)
It's out of my price range, but the paint work is impressive.
Out of your "price range"? These prices are utterly ridiculous.
I think its too heavy for that build spec. What happens when you run 105 and box rims ... ouch. Im no a weight weenie but my own disc brake bike; Ultegra, Hunt 54's, Alloys bars etc comes in at 7.7kg and it cost me a fraction of the price! Just some thoughts.
A $5,000 frame with 105 and box rims? People do that?
It will certainly appeal to a select few considering the cost. Many people don't 'weigh' bikes and I'm sure if they are looking for a exclusive bike brand then it will be a consideration. I have read many bike reviews over the years and just because they write for a mag/cycle website doesn't mean they are more qualified or better than you. Very often they give their view based on one ride and quite often have to 'tow the line' so not to upset any brands. Having watched and listened to you, you are always transparent and give a view based on your experience whether that is good or bad. Reviews are very difficult to do as they are subjective, and if I ever did one the first thing I would do is weigh it!! It will be interesting to see if or how the bike does over a few rides/races.
You are wrong. Most of the other reviewers are not more professional than you. Most are shills for the manufacturers, some worse than others. Example-- One who is prominent on TH-cam was pushing ceramic bearings -- for the steering apparatus! Your reviewers are honest.
I think you and your team will be a good tester/endorser for this brand so people don’t just buy a bike because of its glossy look but the performance based on real data.
Great stuff Chris. Good review. What a lovely machine. What I found confusing when I looked at the Chapter 2 website was that it was just frames. I don’t have the experience to do a bike build, and I’m sure there’s plenty of folks like that too. It wasn’t clear to me from the Chapter 2 website if they have partners who can do a build on customers behalf and how to assess what the finished bike configuration would consist of and cost.
Thank Rex, that actually means a lot coming form you. From what I understand, that is where the retailers are designed to come in and fill the gap. I know here in Sydney there are a few, like Embassy over on the dark side … I mean Mosman, that are well suited to it. That said, that naming structure is impossible. Thanks again for your comment. Chris.
In Brisbane, Tandem Co is well known for building Chapter 2 bikes. It is a lot easier and more economical than buying a bare frame and building it up yourself (unless you already have a groupset & wheels).
3:40 have you tried CA MS cables on something like this on an otherwise Sh/Sr bike?
Great review Chris, thank you. You come across well and very sincerely. And she is a beaut! 😁
1st- looks like you need to brush up on your Te Reo, might help navigate the site (tbh, I'd probably be lost as well) 😉
2nd- "holds speed ", gets a thumbs up from me 🤣
Good honest review, like the style 👍🍻
Oh thanks man, really appreciate that comment.
love the review
Will devel send you the AO2 again? Was planning on buying the frame base on your review.
Hey Josef, I don’t know. The A02 went back into development after I gave them my feedback, and I haven’t heard anything since.
Great review Chris !
Thanks Alan. I was actually quite nervous putting this out there, So really appreciate the fact that you got something out of it. Thanks again
@@ChrisMillerCycling you are one of my go to cycling TH-camrs as well as the vegan cyclist ,,,I do hope he is as nice as he seems , and Dave Arthur , I can always count on very good content from you , I’m just a cycling nut from the northern rivers
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I'm an old MTBer with an old roadbike and looking for something newer. But I'm confused by the geo numbers here.
Specifically the reach and top tube numbers. The reach (552mm) and the top tube (542mm) are only 10mm different.
I thought reach was the horizontal distance from the center of the BB to the centre of the top of the head tube.
On a mountain bike you add the reach and the stem length, and you have a good idea how stretched out you are going to be.
Is it different for road bikes?
I guess the hoods on road bikes put you a bit further out in front of the stem, a bit like bar ends used to do.
Does that mean the reach is the BB to steerer distance, plus the stem length, plus another figure for the distance from the centre of the stem clamp to where the hoods will sit?
Cheers
Bought one.
Am I doing this all backwards? ………..maybe
I bought a Chapter2 Koko at the TDU in January this year, and am only now, looking at the reviews.
I was a little sceptical at first, but after meeting Mike Pryde a couple of times. Riding the bike, and taking to people around the event who were riding the C2 bikes, I was comfortable that this was the right choice for me.
I am 56 years old. I do race… a little. I like Gran Fondo events and am pretty fit for someone in my demographic (179cm/69kg)
I love this bike!!
After 5 years on a Giant Propel, I wanted to stay with an aero bike, but wanted a little more comfort, and a little less weight.
The contenders were another propel (the new 2023 model) or the Canyon Aeroad. The Propel was “unobtainium” in Jan/Feb. After watching the Pro’s in action in the TDU the Canyon was looking a little chunky and as it really hadn’t changed much in 4 or 5 years, a little dated. The Canyon was also unavailable…. Even to test ride.
Someone suggested I try the Chapter 2 & even let me take their bike for a quick spin.
A couple of days later I was laying down a deposit and 6 months down the track I couldn’t be happier 😊
They are great bikes aren’t they. So many people dismiss Chapter 2 as a boutique brand with pretty paint, but the Toa and Koko seem to be particularly good bikes.
seen these bikes in the wild and theyre nice bikes. just shocking price tags. great video
Thanks BBM … production value went to 11 for this ie. I wore a chest GoPro mount for a day and suffered the strange looks of cyclists and pedestrians alike 😎
weight is very important for the cashed up mamil as much easier to walk up the hills. cm you've done a great review excellent manner - however how could chapter expect people to buy a frameset only for $5K+ is there even a build option? canyon would be their market competitor and they do it much better from what I can see. I just buy Giant's from LBS and never have any issues, especially with my pocket.
I think Canyon are a different market tbh. Chapter 2 selling frame-only means you only have the option of a custom build, so either to do that yourself or go to one of the shops/workshops that sell Chapter 2 and have them build to your spec (this works out more economically than it may first seem). Canyon is about buying a complete bike with different levels of specification, Chapter 2 is much more about getting something unique and custom - the limited run paint jobs go with that too.
In saying all of that, I find the Toa a very nice bike to ride (and quick) so I think it is more than just a nice paint job. Also the frame prices are a little deceptive. Looking at the Canyon Ultimate, in a similar build it would cost more than what my Toa build did - and all the Canyons are out of stock. I only waited a few days for my Toa!
@@discbrakefan buying a frameset (so building a bike from scratch) would be in the domain of an experienced cyclist, and an experienced cyclist aren't going to go the chapter2 path in consideration of the price and what's on offer by other brands, (Giant Propel Adv sl 1 2022 for example) and amazingly it has wheels lol. So that leaves the 'newer' cashed up cyclist now who could be bothered sourcing parts particularly in this climate [and having the required product knowledge] when yes amazingly you can buy a complete bike ready to ride, I don't get it sorry. good luck bike looks great.
@@marcus_velo_9970 It’s not one or the other (buying complete or self build). A local shop builds up bikes to custom specs and do Chapter2. For me that worked out well with a favourable price when compared to similar specs in other brands. I am an experienced cyclist and have ridden brands including Giant, Specialized and Bianchi (for context).
I agree with their naming structure being very confusing and their website doesn’t help to work out what the hierarchy is for their product lines. I’ll be building a new bike in the next 6-9 months and had considered this brand but the confusion put me off.
Hey Michael, i think iI have my head around the Toa and Koko, but then I’m asking myself what’s the actual difference between them 🤷🏻♂️
@@ChrisMillerCycling I was thinking the same. Negativity aside, I do love that it’s a product from an Australasia company and that’s a little different to the the bikes from bigger brands that all look the same.
@@ChrisMillerCycling The geometry is quite different for the Koko, more aggressive. I think the Koko is their "aero race bike" and the Toa is their more all-round option with slightly more relaxed geometry.
Chris, do you want to do (with your mate) a 'grill my bike' feature where we submit our bike photos for you to critique?
I think 1 minute in you’ve got the stack and reach measurements the wrong way around? Stack 381 and reach 552?
Cool. You get the idea though
@@ChrisMillerCycling of course Chris 👍
At that price, I don't know.....ever swing a leg over a BMC Teammachine SLR FRS? The frameset fetches 2,299.00CHF. Over half a pound lighter...
But nice to have yet another option that isn't Specialized Trek or Giant....That said, I would love to own a Giant TCR :S
Always had a soft spot for a BMC, but never ridden one. The TCR massively interests me as well … so many bikes …
@@ChrisMillerCycling You have made really good points in the past about the perception of aero gains for pros vs amateurs which I firmly believe, and largely both the TCR and Teammachine are going to be very racy bikes, and maybe not the best suited for amateurs, but about as close without tipping into the confused "endurance bike category"...we just end up riding them with a chimney worth of headset spacers under the stem...but I do believe they're tried and true all-arounders. I believe the biggest benefit is in compliance with the massive tire clearance, and both of these deliver as well.
I just wish I could get rid of my Bianchi. It was a gift from my wife during the pandemic so i wasn't able to ride before to buy, and I am not in love with it. It looks great, but its a bit hefty, clunky even w/ full Ultegra and just doesn't have a refined ride quality that I would expect from a such a legendary brand. I've always wanted a TCR or Teammachine, and previously owned a SuperSixEvo rim brake, and I believe these two bikes carry that same essence. Fast, light, agile, comfortable..just a hard bike to fault.
A Cervelo S5 top spec is $15>$17K and dare I say 7.9kgs? I think 7.7kgs is good going for an aero bike
Not that aero it has discs, and 7.7 is heavy
@@cpt.slackbladder3187 All aero bikes are coming out with disc now. But the Koko is Chapter 2's "aero bike". It's definitely a little more weighty than some other options, but it's in the range of a typical disc-brake, electronic groupset bike.
Now I have both, not sure why I purchased those two bikes.
I love this bike however after I rode 5000km and realized this bike is a bit heavy on 12％ above hill. Then decided to purchase new TCr.
R.
I think you’re confusing numbers in the geometry. The SuperSix has a top tube of 546 (4mm longer). It’s the seat tube that’s 515. Compared to the SuperSix Evo the Toa is basically the same - just a few mm here and there but all in proportion. It’s the seat angle that’s the main difference, Toa is steeper.
You say the Toa is an endurance bike but this puts its dimensions squarely in the race camp. Something like a Canyon Endurace or Cannondale Synapse has a much higher stack.
Hey Mark, thanks for the update on the geometry, however I made it pretty clear I DONT think this is an endurance bike
It’s quite similar geometry to a Supersix Evo, yes. Just a bit taller in the stack than a Tarmac, TCR, Ultimate, Emonda, etc. But still lower than the endurance marketed frames.
Its not that heavy in comparison, aero disc breaks are not light
The frame is a bit heavier than comparable bikes. But it’s not a huge difference.
I like the ramblings of a mamil. It makes me feel at home. Although you may be a touch young to be truly middle aged.
The progression is slow Mick … but I feel confident I have it within me
@@ChrisMillerCycling 👴🤣
Which open mould factory did this come from LOL, who remembers NOVE
Ok, so I am told it isn’t an open mould, but … ok to play devils advocate on this, would that actually be such a bad thing anyway? I mean the open mould is popular and has some R&D to it. That’s probably a VLOG for another day, but if it was the motor vehicle industry, they would be proudly claiming they use shared technology.
@@ChrisMillerCycling if its open mould you can buy it on aliexpress from the manufacturer for $500 USD. Who remembers NOVE charging $4000 for the Light Carbon frameset, what happened to them. I feel bad for people suckered into stuff like this. Cycling doesn't have to be this expensive but its become a literal marketing scam. If it was automotive, it would be like someone reselling a honda for 4X the price with mercedes badges on it.
@@KushPizzaSleep it’s not an open mold.
@@KushPizzaSleep Just in case it wasn't clear, Chapter 2 frames aren't open mould.
@@discbrakefan LOL David, you really think a small brand like Chapter 2 has the resources to do R&D and create a frameset. If it is not open mould, they simply went to a factory in china and picked a frame from a factory's catalogue they could have the rights to. You are delusional if you think Chapter 2 had any input in creating this frame.
you dont need 30 mm tyres on high performance road bike.
25-28 mm
Good on you for the disclosures! why the disclosures all of a sudden? But is this #Sponsored or #FreeGift ?
Read the description
Best 2023 bike - Giant Propel! (Get the version with a normal seat post)
Was just talking about that bike on a ride this morning … would love to get my hands on one to test
Ramblings of a MAMIL. Sounds familiar.
you got the reach and stack mixed up
Yep, but you get the idea.
@@ChrisMillerCycling yes but you confused me for a few seconds. Then I realised you ride the same size bike as me (and I am 184cm tall)
A lighter set of wheels would be a good change to the bike
These Princeton wheels are so fast though.
@@ChrisMillerCycling would be an interesting test to see what happens when you change the wheels
hmm... IF I'm spending the money of a superbike which is what the frame with parts would cost (8-10k USD) idk man I would have a hard time picking an off brand frame.. Could have a supersix evo frame... s-works tarmac frame even. Lot of money to gamble. IMO 🤔
… and ultimately that is the challenge for this brand. I even found myself looking at Canyons and Cannondales the other day, simply because I felt I ‘trusted’ the performance. I hate to admit it, but this was because i see the bike in the world tour.
Saving weight is so horrendously overrated...
I hate to say it … but I am starting to agree with you
@@ChrisMillerCycling thats nice to hear:P. I mean if you are riding the national hill climb championships as a sub 60kg climbing specialist, sure I guess weight matters! But I would argue that for the average Joe 500g more or less in total weight don't make a noticeable or measurably difference in day to day riding or even racing. If you do the math, saving 3-4 watts will almost always be more beneficial than saving a full Kilo on the bike...
Looks like a Hanzo
To bad the name Toa means toilet in swedish😂
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh this is Gold RSP, best comment yet.
20 years ago: we can built a bike with that frame below 7kg. Now these days: We are able to built a a bike below 8kg. I call that progress. Nevertheless it is an absolut beautiful bike and my super six is not my lightest, but definitely my fastest bike ever.
Progress is the industry and riders figuring out that a bike can be heavier AND faster.
Buying a bike for the paint job is ridiculous when custom paint jobs from aftermarket companies are so cheap these days.
Agree, but I think the Toa is a great bike on its own merits.
What is considered cheap for a paint job?
@@tommyfreckmann6857 cheaper than the Trek P1 extra cost
There's no unique selling point with this brand. It's just another overpriced pretty bike.
Haha! Trust DT to offer the positive feedback 😜
@@ChrisMillerCycling Tell me i'm wrong and why. I bet you can't.
@@DanTuber I have one man, it's a great bike. My build price was less than other, bigger brand options.
@@discbrakefan how much?
@@DanTuber A lot less than you think 😉
Yip another fantastic bike , but Way Overpriced , sure life time guarantee on the frame and a beautiful paint job, but after a year of racing it will probably be all scratched so what does it matter , like so many bike brands these bikes a marketed at the over 45 cafe rider who does one Fondo ride a year and has more money than sense,
No wonder so many people I know and myself are looking at buying a bike from Yoeleo or Winspace ,🤨
Which comparable frames are cheaper? Also, it’s not so bad when you buy the bike from a shop who can put a build together, the price is more reasonable than what the frame alone suggests.
Reviewing a bike & doesn’t even know what Reach & Stack are? Flipped the numbers & confidently reading it out loud.
Indeed … please accept my sincerest apologies for teh typo and you can have your money back … oh wait
@@ChrisMillerCycling Typo is something when you write something wrong, not when you read it loud the same mistake confidently. Instead of messing with a 'keyboard warrior' (as per you), you should be thankful that your reach & stack info got sorted for life because of him (and you know it from inside). Good luck!
Honestly it people like you that make trying to share content on TH-cam really difficult. I am not a shop, I am not a brand, I am trying to make entertaining videos for a pretty small audience. So you really lean (rightly or wrongly) on the supportive feedback of your community. I hope you had fun with your snarky comment and sleep well every evening knowing you have successfully made me question why I bother to do this. Peace. Chris
@@ChrisMillerCycling Glad mate that you accepted the mistake. Agreed that you make entertaining videos, so stick to your strength. That's what I was trying to point out. I used to watch your videos because you love cycling as a sport, if you really want to review videos then get your shit right otherwise there are plenty of channels doing that. I was not here to see wrong geo info kind of video at the first place. I was here to see entertaining cycling content. Cheers!
@@VeloVinay Just checked out your channel. You've got a hide abusing Chris for his videos when yours are so amateur, dude.
this shit isnt fast
Why not?
@@discbrakefan heavy, not aero
@@AeroskiiiNonsense. It’s a fast bike.
Instead of toa should be called toad
This is the most intelligent comment I've read on TH-cam. It's just incredible how you came up with toad from Toa. Genius...