This is what I like. Impressed that Chapter 2 is willing to take the risk of this interview. Feels really honest to me! And for you Chris, if this is the way your channel is going I can only wait for the next posts/videos. Great!
As one who builds the bike after buying the frame. Listening to Michael with insurance and him being approachable, it is no brainer. His frame is nice looking and i will make this frame my next purchase.
The fact that Mike is prepared to address viewer comments and respond in an honest and direct manner is evidence enough that he is an honest businessman with integrity and a great deal of pride in what he brings to market. There are a few brands (if any) that would have responded in the same way. If I was in the market for a new bike I would certainly consider Chapter 2.
I liked your review. I recently picked up my Tere last Xmas. The Chapter2 team in Sydney was really helpful and helped me select and source components for the bike and arranged for the bike to be built and delivered to me. I’m very happy with my build which includes Mana integrated SRAM AXS 12 speed Foil rims and disc breaks. The reason I went with Chapter2 was the unique paint job, excellent service, availability in my size XL. I wanted to spend less but in my size there just isn’t any good stock second hand or even new at the mainstream suppliers. I really love riding it and enjoy discussing the uniqueness of it.
Sounds like you have had a great experience Paul, one that Mike can be proud of. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with the bike and for subscribing to the channel. Chris
Mike did real well here to not get offended with some of the comments. Great interview and appeared real genuine and a super-interesting guy. Chapeau Mike.
As a boutique brand I think Chapter 2 is right up there. Really nice beautifully finished frames with quite unique paint jobs. And something a bit special down at the cafe or on the bunch ride. Also from listening to Mike over the last few yrs, a lot of time and effort has gone in from an engineering perspective to design and make a performance product. These are obviously not just rebadged cookie cutter frames! So for that I don't think these frames are expensive for what you get at all, in today's market.
I am so impressed by Michael for taking your interview and responding to commenters. What an impressive show of knowledge and humility. I love it when engineers do the talking rather than marketers who don't always understand the concepts. Beautiful bikes, also. If you had the chance, I would be interested to hear Michael address the question of manufacturing tolerances, such as their quality control processes for the issues seen on those who do 'cut up reviews', such as voids, delaminations, out of round bottom bracket shells, etc. Loved the interview!
Bought an early Chapter 2 Tere in 2018 online and direct from Chapter 2.. It arrived within days of ordering. It’s unique, fast and comfortable. It still makes me smile every time I ride it and I’ve just bought another one. Mike and the team can’t do enough and you can speak or message them directly and get a very quick reply. You feel like you are part of a family. I can’t see myself changing brand.
“Makes me smile” … for me, that’s the phrase that says it all about this brand. I’m reading a lot of the comments and I feel it’s hard to articulate that emotion with any bike. Thanks for the comment and the sub.
Chris - this is properly clear, open and sensible discussion, which you are making your USP lately (in the absence of it being the norm online). Keep it up. And props to Michael, who gave some extremely frank and transparent answers. Loving this channel mate.
@@ChrisMillerCycling , when there’s nothing to hide and no smoky mirrors, then why not come out on the front foot as the Ch2 owner did and tell the story. As he said, we the consumer have choice and we exercise it accordingly. I cant see any of the big brand owners coming onto yours or anyones channel and being vulnerable like the owner of Ch2 has done. Oh and for the record, I don’t ride a Ch2, but after this interview, I’m keen to investigate. Great interview Chris Cheers 🚴♂️
I’ve been riding a Chapter 2 Tere for the past 3 years and loving it. I see absolutely no reason to change, it’s just a perfectly suited bike for me. I could ride it all day everyday. Most people buy or change bikes like because it’s fashionable, showing off what they could afford, or herd mentality to up one another’s bike’s game, they forgot to buy and ride a bike that suits them and their riding abilities.
This was actually really good interview Chris. From you and the company. There's probably a lot of 'real life' things about the bike industry many people don't actually know.
Great interview thanks Chris and respect to Mike for being so open with his views and comments. I wonder how comfortable Mike was with a situation that arose here in Auckland NZ a few years back. Chapter 2 gave a local bike shop owner and rider a Chapter 2 frame as I assume some sort of sponsorship deal to promote the brand. Within a few months of this there was an event where Chapter 2 donated a frameset to be given away as a spot prize at the conclusion of a Gran Fondo. There was much excitement and everyone was hanging around until all the prizes for the event were given out waiting for the draw to see who would get the prized Chapter 2 frame. Out of the 100's of participants who's names had been entered in the draw, who's name got drawn out of the hat but the very same sponsored rider and bike shop owner who had already been given a frame. The event organiser tried to persuade the winner to have the frame redrawn but the rider said no, he wanted the frame (which I guess he maybe resold through his shop or gave back to Chapter 2)? There were a lot of disappointed participants and it really left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth for many people at the event as it all seemed a bit suss.
Greg, Thanks for the comments. Yeah, that was awkward for sure and we should have agreed in advance that sponsored athletes/C2 dealers were not eligible for the spot prize. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Lesson learnt! Mike
@@CHAPTER2Bikes Thanks Mike, you have gained my respect with your no bullshit answers to the questions. I had a look at the Chapter 2 website a few hours ago but couldn't get past a box advertising one of your bikes, Top-Tier Aero Road Frame Artist Edition, couldn't close the box or go any further, Microsoft Edge browser on PC.
Great content Chris - I live in the U.K. so Chapter 2 is not really on my radar, but as an engineer, Mikes points make a lot of sense and it’s great to see a smaller bike brand forging it’s own path - the designs and names are a great differentiator too. Big thumbs up 👍
Great interview! Always great conversation and insight from Mike. I've owned and ridden several Chapter2 models and have nothing but great things to say about the brand.
Great video as usual but NO WIND in FL? LOL Pan Flat is close but for us, there's hills in them thar Clermont hills. LOL Great interview and I am now interested in Ch. 2 bikes.
I bought a Chapter 2 Tere and have never been happier. Been riding only Cannondale since 2007 with the last one being a 2014 Supersix and the Tere blows it away. Comfortable and fast, and the best part is the paint jobs on Chapter 2's are beautiful.
Mike's always been a solid dude. I remember him from back in the day when the Hong Kong Mountain Bike Association was trying to persuade the government to stop arresting riders and open up some country park trails to bikes. Live long and keep pedaling. Cheers
Very cool interview. Came to it a bit late as I’m just now looking at a Koko. Sort of wanting something a little different and something I can have fun building.
The only reason I didn’t get a chapter 2 was because he didn’t have my size in stock. I spoke directly with Mike about the Rere. He was very helpful and open about lead times in 2020. I’ll get my next bike from Chapter 2
Great to see Michael giving his thoughts! We're good friends with C2, always good to see people going against the grain. 5:42 though, we do have to add that we have multi-million USD global public liability insurance though... not sure about the other "Asian brand" we were being compared to though.
I'm 68, commute by bike daily (32km round trip) and group ride on weekends. I don't wear Lycra much except for winter. I planning to build a gravel bike in 2023 and will consider Chapter 2. I've lost count of the bikes I've owned. Some/most were steel frame factory made economical. When you are young & broke it is what you can afford, I never apologize to the young punks I ride with for having a nice bike. I do share them tools, snacks, whatever. I don't feel bad when a 20 year old on a cheap bike beats me in a sprint, I expect it.
The seats stays bit was really interesting. To hear that one design feature can make that much of a difference really clarified in my mind what’s going on in frame development
@@ChrisMillerCycling The seat stays was very interesting, but I didn’t realise the top & bottom half played so much into the bikes dynamics. I think your onto something about the seat stays. Cheers.
I think the concept of selling just frameset is a great. Why be held to ransom by Shimano/Sram/campagnolo and other business. I have had more bikes than I care to remember but almost everyone has been a frameset and I have built it up to ‘my’ spec. I realise that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it works for me. Bikes are never too expensive as there will always be a customer willing to pay for it. Look at the car industry, Ferrari sold 11,155 cars in 2021 with an average price of $630000.. Super nice to have the founder reach out to you Chris and just goes to show that your video’s are very good. An extremely good and interesting watch.
I like chapter 2. I came across the brand in a picture or a video i saw here in you tube. I didn’t know anything about them. It reminds me Storks or Storck something like that. Small boutique companies are always going to be a bit expensive because they are basically that… “small” or “boutique “ the name says it all.
What an awesome guy if you're confident and knowledgeable in you're product and believe in it then you'd be happy to answer any questions thrown at you. Not everyone wants to ride the same looking bike as everyone else.
Good interview and kudos for you asking "interesting" questions and him in turn for answering them. I still am of the opinion that these are more so art pieces to show off rather than someone who is truly looking for a performance bike - especially at this price point.
Thanks for the comment and in many respects your opinion is totally cool. Mike made it clear the brand isn't for everyone (not sure it's for me either), but for those who do want something a little different, it's a quality product, with a strong leader at the helm.
I don’t think that’s fair. If you watched Chris’s review he found it great for crit racing. I am not at Chris’s level but the Toa has raced well for me and I am setting PBs on descents everywhere because it handles so well and inspires confidence. The Toa is not a slow or weak bike. Very comfortable while still going fast.
The reason for the diamond-shaped frame configuration is that it was structurally optimal. For steel bikes, it was fine. For a carbon fiber frame with deep-section aerodynamic tubes, more compliance is needed, so the seat stays are dropped to reduce the vertical stiffness of the frame.
Very interesting interview I thought the bike was very nice I liked the design it’s a bit different from the rest which is good easy to find outside the cafe after a coffee stop very good honest and frank chat ,my days of riding a racing bike are long over they’re just not practical on the roads where I live these days I enjoy riding my Gravel bike , great work Chris !
Loved the interview. One question I wish could have been asked. Is the quality control what you would hope for on a $5000+ frame. Watching Hambini and others I get the impression its 'buy and hope' as far as quality control for almost all manufacturers.
Hi Bryan, I can't speak for other brands. However, 100% of C2 frames are tested to reach certain key performance criteria before painting. These include the headtube, bottom bracket and all dropout stiffnesses. Any frame, fork and seatpost that does not meet our KPI is destroyed. Before packaging the frames are also tested for painting and tolerances using gauges to measure BB size, Brake Calliper Mounting surfaces etc. Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions. I can be reached via email michael@chapter2.co.nz.
bit late to this thread but i honestly dont know what bike i would go with these days if i had to buy a new bike . i know for wheels id get a bike shop to build some wheels as i feel like you get great value (espcially if you are into touring over racing ) but not sure ... hats off to the guy for standing up to the firing squad though .
Great interview. I really like the fact that the CEO came on to discuss their product and not deflect like a lot of people do. I have been looking at a frame only, and have looked at this brand before, I just don't have a dealer in my area, but would be willing to travel to the nearest dealer if I opted to go with them. I will take issue as someone that lives in Florida, we have lots of wind and it is the bane of my existence when I misjudge which direction it will be coming from 4 hrs later and the temp is over 90 deg F. :)
Hi Chris. Thanks for your message. I designed both the BURSsl, BURAsl2 and the Zephyr. I remember Eric Marcotte winning the US Crit Champs on the original BURAsl. Was a great bike in its day. Mike Pryde
Great video. Cant believe you didn’t ask him about the names of the bikes that you said you didn’t have a clue about in the last video. Why not was you sacred so only asked the other peoples questions 😂😂
Great content Chris, keep it up. I can see your channel blossoming into something special. I enjoy the mix of content. The bike industry is very fickle, without the likes if C2 it'd just be a yawn 🥱 fest. I enjoy the boutique brands and the diversity they bring. I think it comes from my motorcycle days, I had a bit to do with a little known motorcycle called The Britten here in Christchurch, it was quite the ride (excuse the pun), he who dares wins imo. Ride safe, rubber side down 🍻
C2 price is ok and they are creating fun bikes. Even though the weight is slightly heavier then other brand but it’s fun to ride and comfortable, less damage to body so best choice to those amateur weekend rider. And basically most important things for bike is whether you like a look or not.😊
Open questions to everyone (including you Chris): If you could buy any road bike frame on the market, which would you buy? I will go first - SL6 (rim brake)
Very well done interview but clearly well rehearsed. Conclusion for me is they are lovely bike frames but I’m not the target market. A good analogy is why complain about Ferraris when you could buy a Tesla for much less and go just as fast. Tesla for me and the Ferrari for someone else PS Chris, love to hear your thoughts on Jay Vine’s Vuelta stage win
Fair enough HC, though your analogy of Tesla is a bit problematic for us here in Australia ... that car is IMPOSSIBLE to get, and when you can ... it's a 3 year old version. As for Jay ... feeling a bit like a proud dad today
Very positve response from the owner/manufacturer of the Chapter 2 bikes. However; l think they are missing the fact the a bike purchase, likes the confidence and convenience of a complete finished bike, rather than buying the frame only and sorting out the build yourself. I would be suggesting that Chapter 2 could get around this by having a number of preferred bike builders to partner with, and approx total build pricing through these bike builders. Just a thought! 🤔
@@ChrisMillerCycling people obsess about the dumbest shit. I still ride steel rim brake bikes because they ride better than overbuilt 1.5 tapered head tube disc brake bikes. It’s all about RIDE QUALITY not weight, not stiffness not all that other shit. One of the best riding bikes in the world is a steel bike with a 1” steel fork but you can’t get people to ride it 1. Because it’s “heavy” 2. Because it doesn’t cost $5000 for a frameset so the perceived value isn’t there. My Ritchey Road Logic runs circles in terms of ride quality over all these carbon disc brake bikes. They’ve totally destroyed ride quality but reinforcing the chain stays and fork legs to add disc brakes. Rant over - cheers mate.
Carbon bike prices have become a joke. $60k to develop the moulds, production costs around $500 per bike in China. It’s a numbers game it doesn’t take a huge level of sales to make a very healthy profit. People have had a gut full of the smoke and mirrors this industry has been using now for years and Chinese manufacturers like Winspace are going to wipe the floor with them. Also, he was incorrect on tyre pressure. Wider tyres have better rolling resistance at the same pressure. If you have a 23c tyre at 110 psi and a 28c at 80psi, (same brand and model), the 23c will have a lower rolling resistance - pretty basic stuff for a bike manufacturer to understand
I’m yet to hear any review that Winspace bikes ride as well and as comfortably as the best carbon frames out there. Wider tyres have lower rolling resistance at the same pressure, which means you can run lower pressure without going slower. Tubeless even lower again. That means more grip and compliance for the same rolling resistance. If you want to bounce around on high pressure, narrow tyres on bumpy roads, go for it. The rest of us have moved on and are enjoying being fast AND comfortable
@@discbrakefan A brief reply: A) I ride 28c Tubeless….have for years. That doesn’t change the science around rolling resistance. B) Your initial comments about rolling resistance mirror mine so I am unsure what your point was - after that you seemed a bit confused. C) In the real world 28c will never be run at 23c pressures and visa versa……therefore the reality is you don’t have superior rolling resistance on a 28c to a 23c with real world optimal inflation rates (15% deformation allowed for) for most scenarios. The 23c will be superior. However comfort is a completely seperate issue and is one of many factors that go into tyre choice. D) There is no free ride here….the physics are the physics. Lower pressure increases rolling resistance. Optimal pressure for ride parameters is what is important and completely different the above principle. E) See this website, I think you will find it enlightening www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/
He is wrong about Florida. While it is pancake flat and epic riding is to be had in places like Miami, it is windy AF at times, especially in cities closer to the water. Far windier than up here in Washington state.
@@CHAPTER2Bikes Mike by the way, I think your framesets ARE worth it. :) The color pallette and attention to detail is exquisite. I really like your aero road lineup, and I’m not too worried about weight myself. I’m a 78kg rider, so I’m not suited for fast climbs anyhow, and I favor the integration and any improvements to my watts per CDA that I can attain. By the way, what was that TT frameset you had made that was more aero than the older P3? I would like to look it up. Thanks!
I lived in Florida a few years, central part of the state. It always seemed the wind was corkscrewing in such a way that I always had a 20 mph+ headwind! Hills end, wind can be the bane of ones existence!
Interesting conversation with the manufacturer. The references to Specialized though.. I don't think they're a good benchmark in terms of value! People who just want an 'S Works' have fully bought into their marketing and aren't the demographic to go for! Would much rather ride one of this chap's bikes, kudos for being open to challenge.
Hi GS. Thanks for the comment. I agree that making any comparison with any product and/or brand is hard. I think at the end of the day, people need to decide what value they attach to whatever they decide to buy, and everybody has different reasons. But it is clear that a majority of the market places a high value on what the pros are riding. Mike Pryde
I'd like to see how aero the Giant is compared to other aero bikes because it definitely "looks" less aero compared to the Cervelo, Trek & Scott to achieve "lightness".
I reckon the new Propel achieves the perfect balance of aero and light, better than the Tarmac sl7 did. Waiting to see how heavy the advanced pro is with Ultegra di2 is, but that is probably going to be my next bike, coming off a Tarmac sl6 disc.
Like all mass produced frames they lack the feel of the builder. There is something indefinable and unique in a custom built frame built by an artisan, it has a soul.
Love Chris kind alike chapter 2 bikes but after this video I feel like I would much prefer to buy a bike from someone whose founder is truly passionate and not looking to sell the company when it's very successful like you mentioned Also said if he made 3 billion dollars he wouldn't be selling bikes I think someone truly passionate would make 3 Million dollars and say how can I make better bikes with
Mainstream brands are a pile of shite in my view. Just ripping of the consumer with cheaply built frames with faults galore. Sorry Chris very late to the party. Good work on this video by the way, well done Chapter 2😊👍
I think my man is being a bit disingenuous, when he explains the lack of originality relative to his bikes. Felt is not a huge brand, developed and marketed their bikes in the same manner he is explaining, with the TT bikes/athletes, and they sponsor a domestic team in the U.S., Human Powered Health. When you look at the prices of their bikes, relative to the industry, and what type of sponsorship they offer, they are incredibly high. It’s not like anyone would equate a Felt AR with a Pinarello Dogma, and I have no idea which bike is better, being honest, but you can’t suggest that you NEED a pro team to market an original idea-because Felt sure hasn’t. Overall, being fair, with the UCI restrictions on bikes, I don’t know how much innovation is left in the bike industry, which is why we have the stupidity of disc brakes and wireless shifting, where some day you can probably turn on your t.v. from pressing a button on your shifters as you pull into your garage🙄 Good interview though, as it’s always nice to hear a head of state explain THEIR cost, despite the fact that every consumer wants Formula 1 performance at Walmart prices🤷🏻♂️
I'm sorry Chris, this CEO is dancing around the Elephant in the room. Is his frameset made in China, if so, is it one of the generic factories that makes all the other bikes? If so, then what is he offering different? As to the mold, it only cost the same price as a mid priced SUV and you will typically have a run for a few years, cost ratio is rather small as a business model. As to weight, frames use to be heavier and bikes were lighter. Disc brakes and electric groupsets have made bikes heavier, they use to be aero too. I see no defence for heavier bikes, they were aero and lighter 7 years ago. Then there is the QC coming out of these generic factories in China, which is another question the industry should address. As to justifying the price, DJI make a gimbal for cameras with gyros, carbon fibre arms, electronics, motors etc and it is s targeted at the high end video market, so not the masses and it sells for $1500 AUD. I still can't see how a poorly finished and painted frame is 6k up. Sorry!
@@discbrakefan Yes, it is pretty common knowledge that bikes need to be faced to remove paint over spray and give a flat clean surface for accepting the components to be fitted to bikes. Most shops have facing tools to do this. If they don't, the brakes don't work and the BB doesn't go in nicely. In my opinion for the price this should be done before leaving the factory.
@@waynosfotos Cars are much higher volume and most aren’t handmade. All carbon bikes are. I don’t really agree that facing mounts means the frame is lower quality. I’m quite happy for an experienced bike builder to do that process and ensure everything is square.
… for you Adam. Personally I think they will find a niche, somewhere in between a mainstream brand and full custom in house frame builder. He was very honest about their expectations and direction as a brand, which you have to appreciate. Cheers for the comment as always mate.
This wasn't too good for him was it? What's so special about the bike? The answer is more about how he can't compete with others. Why don't you offer a full bike? It's because of cost issues .... Well that doesn't matter for the consumer
I think he places too much emphasis on customer service. Money talks in the end.... speaking of which. Comparing his brand to Specialized who has been ramping prices up the razoo, and saying look at us we're better value, doesn't hold enough water. Good interview chris.
The frames are expensive and from what I have seen in the marketplace they are virtually impossible to sell second hand which suggests the market are not interested in the frames whatsoever
@@ariffau More than happy to. It's not similar, it is the same. The NP BURAsl was designed by me and produced by the company that owns the factory that also owns the Pardus brand. After Neil Pryde (person) sold Neil Pryde Limited, the NP Bikes business was sold by the new owners to a 3rd Party in the UK. The UK company then stopped altogether and Pardus' owners assumed ownership of the moulds by default (bills not paid) and therefore produced the Robin. Mike Pryde
This is what I like. Impressed that Chapter 2 is willing to take the risk of this interview. Feels really honest to me! And for you Chris, if this is the way your channel is going I can only wait for the next posts/videos. Great!
Love how open and honest he was.
Top Bloke Brett
As one who builds the bike after buying the frame. Listening to Michael with insurance and him being approachable, it is no brainer. His frame is nice looking and i will make this frame my next purchase.
The fact that Mike is prepared to address viewer comments and respond in an honest and direct manner is evidence enough that he is an honest businessman with integrity and a great deal of pride in what he brings to market. There are a few brands (if any) that would have responded in the same way. If I was in the market for a new bike I would certainly consider Chapter 2.
100% very hard questions and his answers were well articulated
I liked your review. I recently picked up my Tere last Xmas. The Chapter2 team in Sydney was really helpful and helped me select and source components for the bike and arranged for the bike to be built and delivered to me.
I’m very happy with my build which includes Mana integrated SRAM AXS 12 speed Foil rims and disc breaks.
The reason I went with Chapter2 was the unique paint job, excellent service, availability in my size XL. I wanted to spend less but in my size there just isn’t any good stock second hand or even new at the mainstream suppliers.
I really love riding it and enjoy discussing the uniqueness of it.
Sounds like you have had a great experience Paul, one that Mike can be proud of. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with the bike and for subscribing to the channel. Chris
One of your best ones to date Chris,
he's such a nice guy.
His honesty makes me want to support his business and buy a Chapter 2.
Agree 100%. Sure the Ch2 owner wants to sell his brand, but hey, I didn’t sense any BS from this bloke.
Go, spend 5k in a bike which costs a few hundred to produce
Mike did real well here to not get offended with some of the comments. Great interview and appeared real genuine and a super-interesting guy. Chapeau Mike.
As a boutique brand I think Chapter 2 is right up there. Really nice beautifully finished frames with quite unique paint jobs. And something a bit special down at the cafe or on the bunch ride. Also from listening to Mike over the last few yrs, a lot of time and effort has gone in from an engineering perspective to design and make a performance product. These are obviously not just rebadged cookie cutter frames! So for that I don't think these frames are expensive for what you get at all, in today's market.
I am so impressed by Michael for taking your interview and responding to commenters. What an impressive show of knowledge and humility. I love it when engineers do the talking rather than marketers who don't always understand the concepts. Beautiful bikes, also. If you had the chance, I would be interested to hear Michael address the question of manufacturing tolerances, such as their quality control processes for the issues seen on those who do 'cut up reviews', such as voids, delaminations, out of round bottom bracket shells, etc. Loved the interview!
Bought an early Chapter 2 Tere in 2018 online and direct from Chapter 2.. It arrived within days of ordering. It’s unique, fast and comfortable. It still makes me smile every time I ride it and I’ve just bought another one. Mike and the team can’t do enough and you can speak or message them directly and get a very quick reply. You feel like you are part of a family. I can’t see myself changing brand.
“Makes me smile” … for me, that’s the phrase that says it all about this brand. I’m reading a lot of the comments and I feel it’s hard to articulate that emotion with any bike. Thanks for the comment and the sub.
Great interview a lot of questions answered. I would have no problem in purchasing a Chapter 2.
Chris - this is properly clear, open and sensible discussion, which you are making your USP lately (in the absence of it being the norm online). Keep it up. And props to Michael, who gave some extremely frank and transparent answers. Loving this channel mate.
Really great interview. Mike should be doing more of this, he's really good at getting the word out on what his bikes are about.
100% agree ... he was incredibly open, honest and well spoken. And let's be honest, he did not have to do that, fair play to the man!
@@ChrisMillerCycling , when there’s nothing to hide and no smoky mirrors, then why not come out on the front foot as the Ch2 owner did and tell the story. As he said, we the consumer have choice and we exercise it accordingly. I cant see any of the big brand owners coming onto yours or anyones channel and being vulnerable like the owner of Ch2 has done. Oh and for the record, I don’t ride a Ch2, but after this interview, I’m keen to investigate. Great interview Chris Cheers 🚴♂️
I’ve been riding a Chapter 2 Tere for the past 3 years and loving it. I see absolutely no reason to change, it’s just a perfectly suited bike for me. I could ride it all day everyday. Most people buy or change bikes like because it’s fashionable, showing off what they could afford, or herd mentality to up one another’s bike’s game, they forgot to buy and ride a bike that suits them and their riding abilities.
This was actually really good interview Chris. From you and the company. There's probably a lot of 'real life' things about the bike industry many people don't actually know.
Great interview thanks Chris and respect to Mike for being so open with his views and comments. I wonder how comfortable Mike was with a situation that arose here in Auckland NZ a few years back. Chapter 2 gave a local bike shop owner and rider a Chapter 2 frame as I assume some sort of sponsorship deal to promote the brand. Within a few months of this there was an event where Chapter 2 donated a frameset to be given away as a spot prize at the conclusion of a Gran Fondo. There was much excitement and everyone was hanging around until all the prizes for the event were given out waiting for the draw to see who would get the prized Chapter 2 frame. Out of the 100's of participants who's names had been entered in the draw, who's name got drawn out of the hat but the very same sponsored rider and bike shop owner who had already been given a frame. The event organiser tried to persuade the winner to have the frame redrawn but the rider said no, he wanted the frame (which I guess he maybe resold through his shop or gave back to Chapter 2)? There were a lot of disappointed participants and it really left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth for many people at the event as it all seemed a bit suss.
Greg, Thanks for the comments. Yeah, that was awkward for sure and we should have agreed in advance that sponsored athletes/C2 dealers were not eligible for the spot prize. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Lesson learnt! Mike
@@CHAPTER2Bikes Thanks Mike, you have gained my respect with your no bullshit answers to the questions. I had a look at the Chapter 2 website a few hours ago but couldn't get past a box advertising one of your bikes, Top-Tier Aero Road Frame Artist Edition, couldn't close the box or go any further, Microsoft Edge browser on PC.
Great content Chris - I live in the U.K. so Chapter 2 is not really on my radar, but as an engineer, Mikes points make a lot of sense and it’s great to see a smaller bike brand forging it’s own path - the designs and names are a great differentiator too.
Big thumbs up 👍
Hi Dominic. Thanks for the positive comments. Mike.
Great interview! Always great conversation and insight from Mike. I've owned and ridden several Chapter2 models and have nothing but great things to say about the brand.
Thanks for the comment and feedback Jeremy.
Love this, love my Huru as well, Chapter2 are worth every penny.
Great video as usual but NO WIND in FL? LOL Pan Flat is close but for us, there's hills in them thar Clermont hills. LOL Great interview and I am now interested in Ch. 2 bikes.
I bought a Chapter 2 Tere and have never been happier. Been riding only Cannondale since 2007 with the last one being a 2014 Supersix and the Tere blows it away. Comfortable and fast, and the best part is the paint jobs on Chapter 2's are beautiful.
Mike's always been a solid dude.
I remember him from back in the day when the Hong Kong Mountain Bike Association was trying to persuade the government to stop arresting riders and open up some country park trails to bikes.
Live long and keep pedaling.
Cheers
I'll second that, top dude and can design a nice bike.
Hi Brian! Blast from the past. 🤙
Great interview Chris. Mike comes across as a genuine bloke.
Very cool interview. Came to it a bit late as I’m just now looking at a Koko. Sort of wanting something a little different and something I can have fun building.
The only reason I didn’t get a chapter 2 was because he didn’t have my size in stock. I spoke directly with Mike about the Rere. He was very helpful and open about lead times in 2020. I’ll get my next bike from Chapter 2
These bikes are totally unique, the designs don't look like anything else and the graphics are great. Subtlety matters!
... and their founder answers the questions of a Z grade TH-camr ... that's a win for me and the industry in my mind.
Great to see Michael giving his thoughts! We're good friends with C2, always good to see people going against the grain. 5:42 though, we do have to add that we have multi-million USD global public liability insurance though... not sure about the other "Asian brand" we were being compared to though.
The rumor mill suggests Winspace make the frames for C2.
I thought it was Wiawis from Korea
@@bboystretch7788 I can say that is not true and @winspace would also corroborate this.
@@glennicol1361 Thanks for your comment. That is not true. Our supplier is an independent manufacturer that does not have its own house brand.
@@CHAPTER2Bikes Thank you for the correction.
I'm 68, commute by bike daily (32km round trip) and group ride on weekends. I don't wear Lycra much except for winter. I planning to build a gravel bike in 2023 and will consider Chapter 2. I've lost count of the bikes I've owned. Some/most were steel frame factory made economical. When you are young & broke it is what you can afford, I never apologize to the young punks I ride with for having a nice bike. I do share them tools, snacks, whatever. I don't feel bad when a 20 year old on a cheap bike beats me in a sprint, I expect it.
Nice honest bloke ,good on him.
A great interview, thanks Chris. As a Kiwi I hope to one day get one of their bikes.
Great work Chris & no BS interview & Mike had some interesting reply’s to your views questions.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers
The seats stays bit was really interesting. To hear that one design feature can make that much of a difference really clarified in my mind what’s going on in frame development
@@ChrisMillerCycling The seat stays was very interesting, but I didn’t realise the top & bottom half played so much into the bikes dynamics.
I think your onto something about the seat stays.
Cheers.
I think the concept of selling just frameset is a great. Why be held to ransom by Shimano/Sram/campagnolo and other business. I have had more bikes than I care to remember but almost everyone has been a frameset and I have built it up to ‘my’ spec. I realise that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it works for me. Bikes are never too expensive as there will always be a customer willing to pay for it. Look at the car industry, Ferrari sold 11,155 cars in 2021 with an average price of $630000.. Super nice to have the founder reach out to you Chris and just goes to show that your video’s are very good. An extremely good and interesting watch.
Buying a complete bike does have the advantage of the groupset being far cheaper than what you could buy a groupset for
@@cannon1156 If you buy the frame through a dealer they can also do the build with the groupset far cheaper than you can source yourself.
Great interview. I recently bought a Chapter 2 Rere, best bike I've had so far! I would definately buy another Chapter 2.
Excellent interview with Mike. I have Rere and Koko. Proud Chapter2 bike owner here.🙏👍👏
This was great from you both. Good convo.
Thanks CS!
Nice interview, I felt he handled those somewhat negative comments very well and eloquently. Well done. 😎
100% agree Jeffrey, nothing was off the table.
I purchased a OA from a local bike shop and are very happy with the quality and function of the bike
Comes across as humble and honest.
What a seriously good video, great to hear from the actual owner of a brand
Glad you liked it!
Great interview Michael and Chris! You never brought up the naming convention though!!!!!
I like chapter 2. I came across the brand in a picture or a video i saw here in you tube. I didn’t know anything about them. It reminds me Storks or Storck something like that.
Small boutique companies are always going to be a bit expensive because they are basically that… “small” or “boutique “ the name says it all.
What an awesome guy if you're confident and knowledgeable in you're product and believe in it then you'd be happy to answer any questions thrown at you.
Not everyone wants to ride the same looking bike as everyone else.
Great video and fair play to Michael 👍
Great interview! Love the honesty.
Great interview. Loving my Tere here in RSA👍.
What a great interview and great guy.
Great interview, brave from Chapter 2 to take those questions and answer them.
Thanks Chris.
Good interview and kudos for you asking "interesting" questions and him in turn for answering them.
I still am of the opinion that these are more so art pieces to show off rather than someone who is truly looking for a performance bike - especially at this price point.
Thanks for the comment and in many respects your opinion is totally cool. Mike made it clear the brand isn't for everyone (not sure it's for me either), but for those who do want something a little different, it's a quality product, with a strong leader at the helm.
I don’t think that’s fair. If you watched Chris’s review he found it great for crit racing. I am not at Chris’s level but the Toa has raced well for me and I am setting PBs on descents everywhere because it handles so well and inspires confidence. The Toa is not a slow or weak bike. Very comfortable while still going fast.
Fantastic video. Very well presented and answered. Compliments to you and chapter 2, I actually want to buy one to support the company!
I have two chapter2 bikes now and love them. Best frames I've had in 25years of riding!! ❤
The reason for the diamond-shaped frame configuration is that it was structurally optimal. For steel bikes, it was fine. For a carbon fiber frame with deep-section aerodynamic tubes, more compliance is needed, so the seat stays are dropped to reduce the vertical stiffness of the frame.
Very interesting interview I thought the bike was very nice I liked the design it’s a bit different from the rest which is good easy to find outside the cafe after a coffee stop very good honest and frank chat ,my days of riding a racing bike are long over they’re just not practical on the roads where I live these days I enjoy riding my Gravel bike , great work Chris !
Glad you enjoyed it Alan.
Loved the interview. One question I wish could have been asked. Is the quality control what you would hope for on a $5000+ frame. Watching Hambini and others I get the impression its 'buy and hope' as far as quality control for almost all manufacturers.
Hi Bryan, I can't speak for other brands. However, 100% of C2 frames are tested to reach certain key performance criteria before painting. These include the headtube, bottom bracket and all dropout stiffnesses. Any frame, fork and seatpost that does not meet our KPI is destroyed. Before packaging the frames are also tested for painting and tolerances using gauges to measure BB size, Brake Calliper Mounting surfaces etc. Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions. I can be reached via email michael@chapter2.co.nz.
@@CHAPTER2Bikes thank you soo much for the reply! Turning 50 in a few short years. I'll see if if I can justify then 😎
@@byrondixon4648 No worries. You know where to find us.
Awesome again. Well done mate
Thank you! Cheers!
bit late to this thread but i honestly dont know what bike i would go with these days if i had to buy a new bike . i know for wheels id get a bike shop to build some wheels as i feel like you get great value (espcially if you are into touring over racing ) but not sure ... hats off to the guy for standing up to the firing squad though .
Great point Robert and totally agree about Michael standing up to the questions. Need more of that in the industry.
Great interview. I really like the fact that the CEO came on to discuss their product and not deflect like a lot of people do. I have been looking at a frame only, and have looked at this brand before, I just don't have a dealer in my area, but would be willing to travel to the nearest dealer if I opted to go with them. I will take issue as someone that lives in Florida, we have lots of wind and it is the bane of my existence when I misjudge which direction it will be coming from 4 hrs later and the temp is over 90 deg F. :)
I have a couple of nice bikes, but I've always admired the Chapter 2s... but that's just based on the looks!
Good and interesting interview.
The original Neil Pryde bikes (Bura, Zephyr etc) we’re amazing!
First thing … great name. Second, I must admit I didn’t know anything about them, would be super keen to try one
Hi Chris. Thanks for your message. I designed both the BURSsl, BURAsl2 and the Zephyr. I remember Eric Marcotte winning the US Crit Champs on the original BURAsl. Was a great bike in its day. Mike Pryde
Great video. Cant believe you didn’t ask him about the names of the bikes that you said you didn’t have a clue about in the last video. Why not was you sacred so only asked the other peoples questions 😂😂
Haha! I totally forgot to ask that one, you are dead right though … stand by that criticism
the bike frames really designed in New Zealand?
Chris .. you need to have a look at Yoeleo bikes. Cant believe you have not heard of them
Great content Chris, keep it up. I can see your channel blossoming into something special. I enjoy the mix of content.
The bike industry is very fickle, without the likes if C2 it'd just be a yawn 🥱 fest. I enjoy the boutique brands and the diversity they bring. I think it comes from my motorcycle days, I had a bit to do with a little known motorcycle called The Britten here in Christchurch, it was quite the ride (excuse the pun), he who dares wins imo.
Ride safe, rubber side down 🍻
100%. 😘
I still struggle with the idea that a frameset, no components even, is priced the same as a COMPLETE motorbike.
With good reason in my opinion!
While this may be true, what sort of "complete" motorbike can you buy new at that price...? Not really comparing apples with apples...
Did Jay finally get that Ultimate, or he is smoking them on an Aeroad?
On the ultimate
C2 price is ok and they are creating fun bikes. Even though the weight is slightly heavier then other brand but it’s fun to ride and comfortable, less damage to body so best choice to those amateur weekend rider. And basically most important things for bike is whether you like a look or not.😊
Send the frame to Hambini for a thorough mature analysis....
Was thinking the same thing
Open questions to everyone (including you Chris): If you could buy any road bike frame on the market, which would you buy? I will go first - SL6 (rim brake)
I WOULD SAY FELT F1/F2 Rim brake,74deg head angle!
Very well done interview but clearly well rehearsed. Conclusion for me is they are lovely bike frames but I’m not the target market. A good analogy is why complain about Ferraris when you could buy a Tesla for much less and go just as fast. Tesla for me and the Ferrari for someone else
PS Chris, love to hear your thoughts on Jay Vine’s Vuelta stage win
Fair enough HC, though your analogy of Tesla is a bit problematic for us here in Australia ... that car is IMPOSSIBLE to get, and when you can ... it's a 3 year old version. As for Jay ... feeling a bit like a proud dad today
Very positve response from the owner/manufacturer of the Chapter 2 bikes. However; l think they are missing the fact the a bike purchase, likes the confidence and convenience of a complete finished bike, rather than buying the frame only and sorting out the build yourself.
I would be suggesting that Chapter 2 could get around this by having a number of preferred bike builders to partner with, and approx total build pricing through these bike builders.
Just a thought! 🤔
Thank You Chris!
Glad you enjoyed it George
@@ChrisMillerCycling people obsess about the dumbest shit. I still ride steel rim brake bikes because they ride better than overbuilt 1.5 tapered head tube disc brake bikes. It’s all about RIDE QUALITY not weight, not stiffness not all that other shit. One of the best riding bikes in the world is a steel bike with a 1” steel fork but you can’t get people to ride it 1. Because it’s “heavy” 2. Because it doesn’t cost $5000 for a frameset so the perceived value isn’t there. My Ritchey Road Logic runs circles in terms of ride quality over all these carbon disc brake bikes. They’ve totally destroyed ride quality but reinforcing the chain stays and fork legs to add disc brakes. Rant over - cheers mate.
What happened to Dare as apart of Nero sponsorship/partnership?
"Dare" sorry I don't follow?
@@ChrisMillerCycling Apologies wrong Asian brand, Devel...
Carbon bike prices have become a joke. $60k to develop the moulds, production costs around $500 per bike in China. It’s a numbers game it doesn’t take a huge level of sales to make a very healthy profit. People have had a gut full of the smoke and mirrors this industry has been using now for years and Chinese manufacturers like Winspace are going to wipe the floor with them.
Also, he was incorrect on tyre pressure. Wider tyres have better rolling resistance at the same pressure. If you have a 23c tyre at 110 psi and a 28c at 80psi, (same brand and model), the 23c will have a lower rolling resistance - pretty basic stuff for a bike manufacturer to understand
I’m yet to hear any review that Winspace bikes ride as well and as comfortably as the best carbon frames out there.
Wider tyres have lower rolling resistance at the same pressure, which means you can run lower pressure without going slower. Tubeless even lower again. That means more grip and compliance for the same rolling resistance.
If you want to bounce around on high pressure, narrow tyres on bumpy roads, go for it. The rest of us have moved on and are enjoying being fast AND comfortable
@@discbrakefan A brief reply:
A) I ride 28c Tubeless….have for years. That doesn’t change the science around rolling resistance.
B) Your initial comments about rolling resistance mirror mine so I am unsure what your point was - after that you seemed a bit confused.
C) In the real world 28c will never be run at 23c pressures and visa versa……therefore the reality is you don’t have superior rolling resistance on a 28c to a 23c with real world optimal inflation rates (15% deformation allowed for) for most scenarios. The 23c will be superior. However comfort is a completely seperate issue and is one of many factors that go into tyre choice.
D) There is no free ride here….the physics are the physics. Lower pressure increases rolling resistance. Optimal pressure for ride parameters is what is important and completely different the above principle.
E) See this website, I think you will find it enlightening
www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/
@@greg4318 I’m well aware of that website and the physics. But your previous post didn’t say the same thing as what you just said
@@discbrakefan It did…reread it or please point out the disconnect?
Great info amazing 🤩
Still waiting for that peer reviewed study that shows wider tires are faster on the road.
i know a lot of the taiwan assemblers
12:23 disc brakes is the answer.
He is wrong about Florida. While it is pancake flat and epic riding is to be had in places like Miami, it is windy AF at times, especially in cities closer to the water. Far windier than up here in Washington state.
Hi Chris. fair point. I've only ridden in Miami once a long time ago and on that day, there was little to no wind. Cheers. Mike Pryde
@@CHAPTER2Bikes Mike by the way, I think your framesets ARE worth it. :) The color pallette and attention to detail is exquisite. I really like your aero road lineup, and I’m not too worried about weight myself. I’m a 78kg rider, so I’m not suited for fast climbs anyhow, and I favor the integration and any improvements to my watts per CDA that I can attain. By the way, what was that TT frameset you had made that was more aero than the older P3? I would like to look it up. Thanks!
@@Bicyclechris Thanks for the compliments. The model was called the BAYAMAO. Mike Pryde
I lived in Florida a few years, central part of the state. It always seemed the wind was corkscrewing in such a way that I always had a 20 mph+ headwind! Hills end, wind can be the bane of ones existence!
Interesting conversation with the manufacturer. The references to Specialized though.. I don't think they're a good benchmark in terms of value! People who just want an 'S Works' have fully bought into their marketing and aren't the demographic to go for! Would much rather ride one of this chap's bikes, kudos for being open to challenge.
Hi GS. Thanks for the comment. I agree that making any comparison with any product and/or brand is hard. I think at the end of the day, people need to decide what value they attach to whatever they decide to buy, and everybody has different reasons. But it is clear that a majority of the market places a high value on what the pros are riding. Mike Pryde
Refreshing inveiw
With regards to aero bikes and weight what about the new Giant Propel 6.9kg and winning stages at the Tour de France ?
Indeed, I wonder what design changes were made to the carbon lay up to make that a reality? Let's hope the Giant CEO reaches out 😁
It really sticks it to the bleating sheep who claim disc brake bikes can only ever be heavy and slow.
I'd like to see how aero the Giant is compared to other aero bikes because it definitely "looks" less aero compared to the Cervelo, Trek & Scott to achieve "lightness".
I reckon the new Propel achieves the perfect balance of aero and light, better than the Tarmac sl7 did. Waiting to see how heavy the advanced pro is with Ultegra di2 is, but that is probably going to be my next bike, coming off a Tarmac sl6 disc.
Like all mass produced frames they lack the feel of the builder. There is something indefinable and unique in a custom built frame built by an artisan, it has a soul.
I don’t think he would disagree, but let’s be honest that that’s a different buyer and untimely a different brand.
Love Chris kind alike chapter 2 bikes but after this video I feel like I would much prefer to buy a bike from someone whose founder is truly passionate and not looking to sell the company when it's very successful like you mentioned Also said if he made 3 billion dollars he wouldn't be selling bikes I think someone truly passionate would make 3 Million dollars and say how can I make better bikes with
Who else remembers when people just answered questions and didn’t REACT to questions?
sadly ... people (mostly me) who get 34 views on a video 😁
There is no way the aerodynamics of a frame can make a difference of mins over a 40km TT
I would take a Time.
Mainstream brands are a pile of shite in my view. Just ripping of the consumer with cheaply built frames with faults galore. Sorry Chris very late to the party. Good work on this video by the way, well done Chapter 2😊👍
Who wanna fund this guys mercedes and villas?
I think my man is being a bit disingenuous, when he explains the lack of originality relative to his bikes. Felt is not a huge brand, developed and marketed their bikes in the same manner he is explaining, with the TT bikes/athletes, and they sponsor a domestic team in the U.S., Human Powered Health. When you look at the prices of their bikes, relative to the industry, and what type of sponsorship they offer, they are incredibly high. It’s not like anyone would equate a Felt AR with a Pinarello Dogma, and I have no idea which bike is better, being honest, but you can’t suggest that you NEED a pro team to market an original idea-because Felt sure hasn’t.
Overall, being fair, with the UCI restrictions on bikes, I don’t know how much innovation is left in the bike industry, which is why we have the stupidity of disc brakes and wireless shifting, where some day you can probably turn on your t.v. from pressing a button on your shifters as you pull into your garage🙄
Good interview though, as it’s always nice to hear a head of state explain THEIR cost, despite the fact that every consumer wants Formula 1 performance at Walmart prices🤷🏻♂️
Is that your dad? You look the same
I'm sorry Chris, this CEO is dancing around the Elephant in the room. Is his frameset made in China, if so, is it one of the generic factories that makes all the other bikes? If so, then what is he offering different?
As to the mold, it only cost the same price as a mid priced SUV and you will typically have a run for a few years, cost ratio is rather small as a business model.
As to weight, frames use to be heavier and bikes were lighter. Disc brakes and electric groupsets have made bikes heavier, they use to be aero too. I see no defence for heavier bikes, they were aero and lighter 7 years ago.
Then there is the QC coming out of these generic factories in China, which is another question the industry should address.
As to justifying the price, DJI make a gimbal for cameras with gyros, carbon fibre arms, electronics, motors etc and it is s targeted at the high end video market, so not the masses and it sells for $1500 AUD. I still can't see how a poorly finished and painted frame is 6k up. Sorry!
Poorly finished and painted?
@@discbrakefan Yes, it is pretty common knowledge that bikes need to be faced to remove paint over spray and give a flat clean surface for accepting the components to be fitted to bikes. Most shops have facing tools to do this. If they don't, the brakes don't work and the BB doesn't go in nicely. In my opinion for the price this should be done before leaving the factory.
@@waynosfotos I agree with that, but I don’t think it necessarily means the frame is poorly finished or painted.
@@discbrakefan what does it mean then? Would you accept this quality on a new car? Why should you accept it on a 6k frame?
@@waynosfotos Cars are much higher volume and most aren’t handmade. All carbon bikes are. I don’t really agree that facing mounts means the frame is lower quality. I’m quite happy for an experienced bike builder to do that process and ensure everything is square.
He is trying to excuse the un-excusable.
So at the end of that. They are nice guys. But the bike is still too heavy, too expensive and not unique 🤷♂️
… for you Adam. Personally I think they will find a niche, somewhere in between a mainstream brand and full custom in house frame builder. He was very honest about their expectations and direction as a brand, which you have to appreciate. Cheers for the comment as always mate.
This wasn't too good for him was it? What's so special about the bike? The answer is more about how he can't compete with others. Why don't you offer a full bike? It's because of cost issues .... Well that doesn't matter for the consumer
I think he places too much emphasis on customer service. Money talks in the end.... speaking of which. Comparing his brand to Specialized who has been ramping prices up the razoo, and saying look at us we're better value, doesn't hold enough water.
Good interview chris.
Fair enough Dan, clearly the brand isn't for you, and I think what I took away from the chat, was Mike is ok with that ... it's not for everyone.
Getting weird vibes
The frames are expensive and from what I have seen in the marketplace they are virtually impossible to sell second hand which suggests the market are not interested in the frames whatsoever
all this talk of aero...on disc brake bikes, so still not aero and heavy. felt most of answers were pretty generic.
I am pretty sure the “aero” difference between a rim brake and disc brake is going to make stuff all difference for 99.9% of riders.
Chapter2. Because Chapter1 (Neil Pryde) went bankrupt 🤣
Actually Neil sold the company and made a lot of money.
@@CHAPTER2Bikes thanks for the reply. But, would you care to explain why the Pardus Robin and the Neil Pryde Bura SL looks wayyyyyyyy too similar? 😂
@@ariffau More than happy to. It's not similar, it is the same. The NP BURAsl was designed by me and produced by the company that owns the factory that also owns the Pardus brand. After Neil Pryde (person) sold Neil Pryde Limited, the NP Bikes business was sold by the new owners to a 3rd Party in the UK. The UK company then stopped altogether and Pardus' owners assumed ownership of the moulds by default (bills not paid) and therefore produced the Robin. Mike Pryde
@@CHAPTER2Bikes thank you so much for the explanation.