I think moerso lmt is turning into q lol. Q is cool, and maybe if they weren’t as worried about seeming hip as they were putting out cool guns, people would take them more seriously, as the guy really does have some great ideas, but he’s just a dick who comes off as someone who shouldn’t be taken seriously.
@@Diaszuranaan easier covert would be 375 raptor. Same kind of deal without the crazy twist. Best part is the only part you need is a new barrel. 308 brass is super easily converted to 375 raptor.
I think the biggest selling point is that if you have a rem 700 action and scope the cost of entry is a barrell and possibly some mags. The $60 box isn't so crazy either compared to most hunting rounds these days. Anyway have a good one.
@@megaconda07I very much doubt this gets picked up by special forces… CIA perhaps, but this doesn’t offer anything that 300blk doesn’t other then have another 100 yards of lethality with Sub’s. If youre using supers, might as well use 7.62 or the new 6.8, they are both ballistically superior at probably all ranges. This would be sick at a kids gun, for hunting, or really any one. But it’s to cost prohibitive for that to be a norm, not to mention needing a 338 suppressor And that costs and time that takes.
I think you actually missed a big point in favor of this round. The 1/3 twist is not simply for stabilization of the round. Since the round has that crazy twist rate it creates massive damage upon impact because it’s imparting not just the forward moving energy into the target but it’s also dumping a huge amount of rotational energy. The TH-cam channel Backfire did a ballistic gel test that demonstrated the rotational energy dump very well.
It makes me wonder if there are other rounds that are just barely over the threshold to be supersonic, which might be slowed to subsonic by a high twist rate.
So, how much damage is enough? I've cooked up a subsonic 350legend load that is just fine. They're all fun to play with but truthfully there are too many boutique rounds these days.
@@ancientrenegade9243 the 350 has a couple things going for it that the 8.6 doesn't. One is bullet diameter. The barrel is spec-ed for .355's, and throated for .358's. This means you can shoot .355-.358 bullets out of it. Cheap plinkers to heavy soft points, in a cheap and easy to source 1:10 barrel. Two it's not too big, and fits in an ar15 with a barrel and maybe mag change. That's hard to compete with when you get down to bullet weight at X velocity vs bullet weight at X velocity.
Groovy round. As a extensive reloader, I’m excited. 300 Blk… not so much, but the 338 is a hammer 🔨 Lack of velocity is made up on target with sectional density. This is where this round shines. Hit a hanging plate w/ 300 Blk and then hit it w/ 8.6 Blk. Big difference. 8.6 has more energy at 400 yards than the 300 at the muzzle. The 8.6 in a bolt gun brings impressive accuracy as well.
Ultra quiet. Vaporizes the target. Cost per round not that big a deal. Unless you have an 8.6 BLK MG. :) The challenge for me is the gun cost. I need longer checks for all those numbers. Maybe Ruger will make an affordable gun. They made one for 300 BLK. MOS-TEK makes 8.6 BLK barrels. Although there are folks who have shot 8.6 at 750 yards, it is basically a 200 yd round. Look at the 8.6 gel tests. Wow. I went with a 16” barrel because I didn’t want the SBR hassle.
I think Q says 300 yds on subs and 50-500 on supers. I personally think a 1-6 LPVO (supers) and high rise or offset red dot (subs) is perfect for this round. In the PNW i hunt with supers in the mountain top clear cuts and subs in the low lands where visibly it 50 yards max. I park half way up the mountain and switch guns at lunch when I am back at the truck. Now i can just switch a mag. I have shot a whitetail with subsonic 300 and then 30 mins later had elk on top of me. Its awesome hunting with lethal heavy subs inside 100 yds.
8.6Blackout is cool and all, but there aren't many good 338 projectiles for the velocity ranges - unless you just want to punch paper or ring steel. 375 Raptor is a better choice if you hand load as it still uses the 308 parent case, and comes with all the advantages that brings, but has a much heavier payload in both supers and subs. It also has an amazing bullet selection with projectiles designed to work in both the 1800-2200fps supersonic and subsonic ranges. If you want an obscene subsonic round though, check out 510 whisper.
It’s definitely more palatable if you reload. My component cost per round is roughly $1.40. And I plan on using it for hunting almost exclusively with a little bit of screwing around at the range.
Most damaging subsonic? Thats highly debatable and depends on the ranges involved. .375 raptor lets you use larger projectiles and you dont have to deal with spin drift at range. And this wasnt part of your point, but the .375 is easily convertible in any .308 rifle with a barrel change. And .308 brass is super easy to convert fo .375 8.6 is a cool caliber. And i definitely want one, but its not the end-all be-all caliber.
Tonight on 1911 Syndicate, Crispy acts like a human director, Jake lobs $5.00 bills into the snow, and the AZ Yeti is absent, he got lost making yellow snow......
I think you miss a very important aspect of the blackout bros, the fact that you can comfortably shoot supersonic and subsonic with the same barrel. You have the most desirable barrel length, IMO, because they seem to test it more than 8" for a short barrel. With a 12" barrel the supersonic is quite substantial, and even the subsonic on game. The 300 blackout was extremely popular for hogs, but mostly in supersonic. 8.6 lends to using subsonic on large game. I also want to say, I like the fact you specialize in real estate for shooters, that is something I wish I had but it is not meant to be. Buying the land as soon as possible is important, IMO, but take it with a grain of salt, I waited about 18 years to break ground.
Ehhhh well I got into airguns long before fire arms so if I wana give myself a massive disadvantage I'd just go for that, because pretty much any airgun that can hunt big game is going to be a very heavy projectile going very slow. Or in short, who the fck actually wants to shoot big game with subsonic ammunition ? And more importantly.... why?
@@cstgraphpads2091 I've done it multiple times in comments and on reddit. If you're not as gullible as a child, have internet access, and have some awareness of cartridges introduced in the last 100 years this is easy. Q has their specs on their site. The 338 BR is the better dedicated subsonic option because it's a smaller case on the .473 boltface. Neck up BR brass and you're done. It's been done before with good results. The 8.6 allows for 49mm cbto. An 8.6x47 is a straight neck up that will fit inside the cbto constraints of 49mm and fit the same high bc subsonic bullets, but it's a longer case that can hold more powder under shorter lighter supersonic bullets. It's the better multi use option. It has also been done before with excellent results in supersonic and subsonic applications. Both options are easy. BR and x47 body dies are easy to source, and with a replacement neck bushing dies are covered. Reamers are easy. Either make a custom reamer or use the sub caliber br and x47 reamers with .338 pilots and cut necks and freebore separately. Brass is easy. Obtain and neck up. Barrels are easy. 1:3 is not mandatory for subsonics or highly desirable for supersonics. 1:6 is adequate for both. It's all custom, you say? 8.6 isn't exactly affordable or reliably found. Reloading is the realistic source of ammo. Why not skip the annoyances of turning and reaming necks after sizing down .308 or creedmoor brass, and use cartridges that are better suited to do what the 8.6 is supposedly designed to do?
As usual, reloading will cut the cost down, but it's still going to be niche and pricy. Luckily 300 BLK is fairly affordable, hopefully we see 8.6 BLK (338 BLK sounds cooler) get down to $2/round for normal FMJs.
Very Lighter Recoil When Considering The Larger Round & Quiet. CQB Pounder & Freight Train Power & Energy. 250 & Under A Sweet Set-Up. Longer Ranges At Larger Targets.
The breakthrough on the 8.6 is its ability to add energy on impact beyond your straight force vector of F=ma. The 1:3 twist adds a significant amount of energy to the projectile without breaching the sound barrier or changing mass. This transfers directly to the target/wound channel. That’s cool. It also was proven pretty substantially in ballistics gel when they were developing it. The other benefit of the 1:3 ratio is the stability out of a shorter barrel. Meaning you can carry less gun. The round being developed to use the 1:3 ratio well is why it’s significant, not that it’s large. The round cost will come down as more companies make it. Also, Q experimented with a 1:1 twist while in development, I thought that was interesting.
I've always pronounced it heck-ate, but I got that from the PGM Hecate rifle. "Hecate or Hekate, is a goddess in ancient Greek religion and mythology, most often shown holding a pair of torches, a key, snakes, or accompanied by dogs, and in later periods depicted as three-formed or triple-bodied. She is variously associated with crossroads, entrance-ways, night, light, magic, witchcraft, the Moon, knowledge of herbs and poisonous plants, graves, ghosts, necromancy, and sorcery."
Fun round to shoot, I have built one on an AR10 platform and I reload. So it is definitely fun to shoot but as you said it isn't cheap. It compares in price more to magnum shells than the "traditional" AR10 rounds like 308 or 6.5 CM. I literally haven't shot any commercial subsonic yet since I haven't been able to get any, but supersonic it has recoil similar to a 308 versus being in the magnum recoil range like a 6.5 PRC or .. a 300 WSM (ugh), although the ammo from Gorilla kicks harder than when reloading to the specs provided by Q. Great video guys, thanks.
300 blackout sort of made sense to me get a 30 cal hole out of a ar15. But several factory loads had issue with expansion in soft targets due to using 308 and 30/06 bullets that were designed to expand at higher velocities. I personally don’t see the need to hunt with subsonics nor do I see the need to use 300 blackout over 223 in the ar15 platform. I liked my 300 blackout as a toy essentially and it was fun but as a hunting pistol I never considered it effective for deer due to a lack of decent expansion. I’ve killed deer at 250+ yards with my 5.56 ar and it expanded successfully. My 30/30 is ballistically more useful than any blackout I ever shot. Now my thoughts on 8.6 I think it’s mass and energy on target for such a little powder load is impressive. But if I wanted an action longer than a ar15 action id run a regular 308. We already had heavy slow fast dropping cartridges back in the late 1800s say hello to the 45-70 and it’s siblings. In my personal opinion 300 blackout is 30/30 reborn and 8.6 is 45-70 reborn and they both are a devolution in the munitions world. The only real benefit to them is silencing capability. Yet if 8.6 proves to be a decent hunting cartridge then I might actually buy into it. Otherwise I’ll find another heavy slow cartridge that’s more abundant to play with.
Excellent Coverage. The Q-Fix Bolt 8.6 Is Far Superior To Faxon Gas Guns With To Many Issues With The Gas System. With The Folding Stock Q-Fix I Can Carry Both My Q-Fix 8.6. I ONLY Run The BANISH & CGS Suppressors. Titanium & No Welds I Tell People Looking At Suppressors That Have Welds Inside Where Baffles Or Hollow With Double Locks & Not Taper-Locked Keep Shopping & Saving For Quality Suppressor.
Would love to own one, but dang most of Q stuff is expensive! 8.6 BO is insanely expensive and hard to come by. If you don’t commit to reloading, you asking for a headache infused money pit. Though it would be Pretty cool to go hunting with 😅
Maybe if the ammo price is comparable to .300 and the dimensions are still 30 cal size. Only because I haven’t got investment in blackout rounds yet and the extra range of 8.6 is nice.
That’s cool. It’s similar to the 350 legend and the 450 Bushmaster 450 Bushmaster being 350 legend on steroids I always wondered if 300 blk had a big brother too. This rocks
It seems this would be a neat cartridge to hunt with subsonic and suppressed. The guy who already has some components laying around. Not something I could afford to shoot through a autoloader.
For hunting, I’d just go with a 45-70 lever action. Ammo is cheaper, it’s a manual action, and straight cases are easy to reload. Subs only seem useful for close-in hunting, nobody is taking ethical shots with subsonic levels of bullet drop past 100 yards. But, you see a deer in your field through the window? He’s dinner and it won’t wake up the toddler. That’s where I’m at with this concept.
i feel like the v7 seven ar-10 parts would be ideal for this so you get an ar-10 without the weight, and then just do a barrel swap. I feel like this wouldn't be ideal for cqb the same way as 300 blk is though, so maybe the bolt hunting route is the primary application.
if you want something with punch, a few assaulters with short barreled ar10's loaded with 25rd mags are gonna fuck some shit up. watching the Ukraine conflict, a maneuverable .308 or 8.6 in the trenches would be pretty handy
It's cool, and I dig it. My only concern is ammo availability. We've had enough issues with common rounds in the last few years at times, and I don't see things getting any better. If things do get better, then I'll probably build myself one. Until then, I'll have to pass.
Take my MONEY!......got my bonus check, single now......living LARGE!....Also..that looks like a very nice piece of property! I guess you need a bigger chain for the Yeti?
Short range, you can get that performance from a .44 Magnum with a bullet of 300 plus grains in a bolt gun, or handgun. Conceivably in a lever gun. Just not in an AR.
i think it’s super interesting partially also because i think the Qfix company owner guy has sort of “broken the glass” on this new level of cartridge development. I really think he’s blasted the trend to the next level. .300 black or .300AAC started it, per se…. and now I predict or my opinion is that a bunch of wildcatters arw going to be trying new rounds with 1:3 twisr barrels, or 1:4, or 1:5. It will be interesting to see of wildcatters do that!
I can reload 8.6 from 6.5 brass necked out and down to 8.6 spec, with factory second bullets for a little under $1 a shot. Best part of the 8.6 is It doesn't take 5 shots it takes 1 and that 1 shot was overkill.
I care!!! I've been hog hunting with it and I'm lov'n the caliber. I have my reloading dies for it and have several hundred rounds for mine. I'm gonna be using mine on my Alaskan hunt'n trip this year. Oh Mos-Tek is making barrel's in 8.6 blk.
I was a few clicks away from buying a fix (wait a second, not that kind, the kind from q) then youtube showed something called 375 raptor. Heavier bullet faster fps (and similar twist rate to the 300 blk at 1/6.25) and 1000 lbs of energy, FROM 400 GR SUBSONIC. Not a cheap endeavor but then again neither is 86. Moa to 400 yards. So, i got in line.
So I am all about subsonic performance, but with the subsonic .458 socom shooting 400 grains at subsonic speed why do we need a tweener? I went from 300 Bo to the socom. Love the rotational energy of the 8.6 but just can't justify it.
Why do you have to dial the drop? Can’t you use the reticle? I very rarely dial drop unless I am shooting at the same range for a long time if I have to make a quick shot I use holdover and drop built into the reticle
That is a super substantial drop at 2-300 yards. 7.62x39 and 300blk have been good for TX pigs so far. Is this just for super close elk or am I missing something? Antelope and Oryx can already be taken with a 6.5 Creedmoor
I think only focusing on subs is a big mistake. As an avid hunter, I'm very interested in this round as it can be run out of a very short barreled, folding stock rifle like the Fix. I'm not really interested in subs for hunting, although I know that they are still lethal. I've killed plenty of hogs with 300 blk subs but prefer supers for increased lethality . It should be noted that certain military groups are toying with the 8.6 as well. Not sure that goes anywhere but both CAG and DEV have been seen rocking the LVAW in 300 .blk
The shop I buy from has sold dozens of fix’s and they have had like half of them have problems with light strikes… it’s the gun not the ammo. Q suppressors also break allot as well… not the best QT imo but the service has been great.
I'm still on the fence about finding the ammo right now but I'm really thinking about slapping together an AR just for this as a project. I think this in a short AR suppressed package would be ideal for a lot of the areas I hunt. 300 grain 338 bullets and close to medium range? Yes thank you!
I can’t wait to get into this caliber. I just started getting into 300blk, but this is more like my pace. The bullet warms my heart in every way, especially seeing the gel and it’s wound cavity after a 1:3 twist rate….. DADDY CHILL Also, I believe the fix is notorious for light primer strikes, just from what I understand. I do not have time behind it, so can’t make my own observations
I would love to see what it can do to some feral hogs! I hunt hogs all year round in south Ga & i use effective rounds (like .300 bo & .223/5.56) & some others that are usually effective in dispatching feral 🐷. Great video keep up the entertaining & informative content!
It has good mass to it, so it's not completely worthless as the .300Blk. What does it do that half a dozen other big bore AR calibers don't? It's cute I suppose. As you guessed, I'm in the "nice idea, but don't care" column.
As soon as ammo manufacturers started coming out with subsonic .350 Legend, the need for 8.6blk ceased to exist. Which is kinda rough for the 8.6 guys seeing as 350 Legend came out first.
here's what i dont get... with subs.. you can only push them so fast.. so is th extra case capacity really worth it? what you can push a heavier round vs .300 blk?
As someone who just got his cans outta jail and also recently got done with a 300blk I love shooting subsonic Roy ds suppressed. It’s cool for sure but HOT DAMN $3 per round!!! I need to start making You Tube videos to start getting some ammo for free cause that’s the only way I’d be able to shoot 8.6blk plus I’d have to save up for the can and wait another 10 months or more just to have some fun with it. So a minimum of two years before I could even have fun with it😂 maybe one day when they become more common
cost of ammo may come down due to some factors: #1 Its not a SAPI spec yet and #2 Does it take .338 Norma Magnum bullets? If it does, the US military bringing a .338LMG into service would drive production of those bullets way down (cases would still be an issue tho). Also the bullets supposedly hit stupidly hard (one of the designers took a cape buffalo with one out of a 12" barrel) due to them rotating at something like 500k rpm and dumping all that rotational energy into the target
Some of us do care.. TheFix in 12inc and Gorilla’s 8inc SemiAuto are something else. I can only hope this eForm waiting process won’t be chaotic. #PorqChop
Yeah rather weird that apparently it doesn't have tactical applications when it only came in to being because it was specifically requested by a certain military unit.
I CARE LOL.. I have a 16" fix and 8" ar10 in 8.6. I've also had a Kg made Rogue X 338 rum - 9mm can for it since 2019 when my buddy Ivan Loomis was first making content about it.
This video didn’t age well. 8.6 blackout is mainstream. First batch of the boombox is completely sold out. $3 dollar rounds don’t mean anything for 4k plus rifles to people anymore.
That sir is one sexy ass piece of hardware. With that setup I'm not sure it matters what caliber but why not make it a gas howitzer. Nice! Yall be safe thanks for the info
It's a cool departure from everyone else. It could be a game changer but I'll let everyone else test it first. I have no immediate need for an sbr hunting cartridge like that. But man it sounds good.
.375 Raptor existed first, its way cheaper to reload, isn't limited to solid copper bullets for fast supersonics, can work from an AR-10 as well. The only departure is needed an absurdly fast twist-rate on the barrel in order to properly stabilize the heavier and longer .338 bullets from a relatively short barrel. That's really not an advantage.
I think the original Jurassic Park can be applied to 8.6 BLK: too preocupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. I mean, it might be cool what it can do, but why would I want to do it? Thank you for pointing out the significant differences in 300 and 8.6 BLK, not just in cartridge dimensions but in application. It seems a lot of people think 8.6 is just "300 BLK for AR-10s, so it must be awesome!" Except they don't realize 300 BLK succeeded so well because of the lighter, cheaper AR-15 platform. As you said, it successfully bridged the gap between sub-gun and military carbine, and does it quite well. But I don't see anyone that wants to kick down doors with a bigger, heavier AR-10. And 300 BLK does have quite a few hunting applications. It's much better than .223 for medium game, and many places don't allow .223 for things like deer or bigger. My limited hunting experience says anything past 150 yards starts getting iffy with subsonic rounds. Drop alone isn't a problem because it's very predictable. But the long flight time to target means more time for the wind to affect the bullet, more time for the animal to move before impact, and other variables. At 300 yards, you're approaching a full second of flight time, whereas a regular .308 travels that far in 1/3 second. Then there's the question whether the place you're hunting will allow shorter barrels for hunting. And not to mention you need a .338 suppressor, not just a .308 suppressor, which are far more common.
To my understanding, the idea is similar to .277, the claim is that it's a 12" sbr that supposedly outperforms full sized battle rifles. I guess the benefit over .277 would be cost, the ability to run subs, the minor matter of an inch in difference and the parts compatibility that you already mentioned. Seems pretty awesome to me if any of that's actually true.
I love these new cartridges that appeal to actual shooters. The biggest thing about these new things like 300 and 8.6, is that they're actually usable in the real world without hearing loss. The second thing is the versatility of subs vs supers. In the real world, hunting or home defense, or shtf, these insanely loud cartridges are largely unusable. Don't believe me, grab your rifle and shoot it, wherever you are, or really anywhere, and see how that goes. Without hearing protection you're fucking wrecked. Pop off some 5.56 out of a 10" and see if you're not fucking deaf for the rest of the day. You can't shoot, move, or communicate effectively after that. God bless of its a whole strong of fire from several people, you're fucking done then. Subs are the future of practical weapons use. And also suppresors, but that comes with other issues.
I think you kinda hit the nail on the head usage wise. Kevin, the owner of Q lives on the east coast and hunts in the African bush a lot where most of the hunting is within 400 yards. From what I've seen of his hunting he brings along a 6.5 for getting longer range stuff, but like 60-70% of the shots are gonna be inside of that 400 yard range. And the ability to have a compact rifle that is easily suppressed means he can have his rifle sitting on his lap jump out of the truck unfold his stock and take a shot without worrying about everyone getting their ears on. Basically he designed a round for himself and the type of hunting he is doing.
I'm a hunter, and I don't have any interest. For hunters, we already have hundreds of cartridges to pick from, and if you're handloading, then you can do far better than $3/round for similar or far better performance. 338 Federal is supported by Wilson Combat and is a fantastic hunting round. 8.6 seems to me to be a gimmic. If .300 blk is not enough energy for your quarry, and you feel you need a bigger bullet than .308, I don't think anyone with a long action rifle in their safe will think "yes, a meme cartridge that can only accept solid one-piece bullets and has no factory support is what I need." 338 federal or dozens of other cartridges could be handloaded for far less with less concern of bullets coming apart for far less, perform better than 8.6, and bought from objectively better companies than Q.
Just finished building one with a 12" barrel and I absolutely love it! To each his own, but don't knock it until you've tried it.
The mini fix had the same issue with light strikes and Q actually did a recall. Turning into LMT with the QC 🙋♂️
Yup and their CEO has a s**t attitude.
I think moerso lmt is turning into q lol. Q is cool, and maybe if they weren’t as worried about seeming hip as they were putting out cool guns, people would take them more seriously, as the guy really does have some great ideas, but he’s just a dick who comes off as someone who shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Interesting that you mention LMT since they are also possibly planning on offering a 8.6 Blackout option on their large frame lineup.
@@alexlevinson8629I agree with this.
I had the same problem with my fix. But q had the gun back to me in 7 days and paid for shipping
I would love to see this as an SBR on the new lightweight Ruger 308.
Ruger sux. Stay away.
Ruger doesn't sux the new stuff ruger is putting out is actually pretty good QC now.... back in the early 2010s I would agree
I'd like to see this in a Tavor 7, personally.
@@Diaszuranaan easier covert would be 375 raptor. Same kind of deal without the crazy twist. Best part is the only part you need is a new barrel.
308 brass is super easily converted to 375 raptor.
I think the biggest selling point is that if you have a rem 700 action and scope the cost of entry is a barrell and possibly some mags. The $60 box isn't so crazy either compared to most hunting rounds these days. Anyway have a good one.
If it becomes more widely used by special operations there's a potential that will drive the price down
@@megaconda07I very much doubt this gets picked up by special forces… CIA perhaps, but this doesn’t offer anything that 300blk doesn’t other then have another 100 yards of lethality with Sub’s. If youre using supers, might as well use 7.62 or the new 6.8, they are both ballistically superior at probably all ranges.
This would be sick at a kids gun, for hunting, or really any one. But it’s to cost prohibitive for that to be a norm, not to mention needing a 338 suppressor And that costs and time that takes.
I think you actually missed a big point in favor of this round. The 1/3 twist is not simply for stabilization of the round. Since the round has that crazy twist rate it creates massive damage upon impact because it’s imparting not just the forward moving energy into the target but it’s also dumping a huge amount of rotational energy. The TH-cam channel Backfire did a ballistic gel test that demonstrated the rotational energy dump very well.
^ This is a very important point to to take into consideration
I guess I didn’t say that outright but that’s largely what I meant by saying it likes that twist rate
It makes me wonder if there are other rounds that are just barely over the threshold to be supersonic, which might be slowed to subsonic by a high twist rate.
So, how much damage is enough? I've cooked up a subsonic 350legend load that is just fine. They're all fun to play with but truthfully there are too many boutique rounds these days.
@@ancientrenegade9243 the 350 has a couple things going for it that the 8.6 doesn't. One is bullet diameter. The barrel is spec-ed for .355's, and throated for .358's. This means you can shoot .355-.358 bullets out of it. Cheap plinkers to heavy soft points, in a cheap and easy to source 1:10 barrel. Two it's not too big, and fits in an ar15 with a barrel and maybe mag change. That's hard to compete with when you get down to bullet weight at X velocity vs bullet weight at X velocity.
Groovy round. As a extensive reloader, I’m excited. 300 Blk… not so much, but the 338 is a hammer 🔨
Lack of velocity is made up on target with sectional density. This is where this round shines. Hit a hanging plate w/ 300 Blk and then hit it w/ 8.6 Blk. Big difference. 8.6 has more energy at 400 yards than the 300 at the muzzle. The 8.6 in a bolt gun brings impressive accuracy as well.
Id like an 8.6, but my personal favorote currently is the .375 raptor. I just made a slick SBR in that caliber.
Ultra quiet. Vaporizes the target. Cost per round not that big a deal. Unless you have an 8.6 BLK MG. :)
The challenge for me is the gun cost. I need longer checks for all those numbers.
Maybe Ruger will make an affordable gun. They made one for 300 BLK.
MOS-TEK makes 8.6 BLK barrels.
Although there are folks who have shot 8.6 at 750 yards, it is basically a 200 yd round.
Look at the 8.6 gel tests. Wow.
I went with a 16” barrel because I didn’t want the SBR hassle.
I think Q says 300 yds on subs and 50-500 on supers. I personally think a 1-6 LPVO (supers) and high rise or offset red dot (subs) is perfect for this round. In the PNW i hunt with supers in the mountain top clear cuts and subs in the low lands where visibly it 50 yards max. I park half way up the mountain and switch guns at lunch when I am back at the truck. Now i can just switch a mag. I have shot a whitetail with subsonic 300 and then 30 mins later had elk on top of me. Its awesome hunting with lethal heavy subs inside 100 yds.
8.6Blackout is cool and all, but there aren't many good 338 projectiles for the velocity ranges - unless you just want to punch paper or ring steel.
375 Raptor is a better choice if you hand load as it still uses the 308 parent case, and comes with all the advantages that brings, but has a much heavier payload in both supers and subs. It also has an amazing bullet selection with projectiles designed to work in both the 1800-2200fps supersonic and subsonic ranges.
If you want an obscene subsonic round though, check out 510 whisper.
It’s definitely more palatable if you reload. My component cost per round is roughly $1.40. And I plan on using it for hunting almost exclusively with a little bit of screwing around at the range.
why would you want to use 8.6 for hunting? it's obviously an assassins weapon not a hunting rifle.
@@investigativeoutcomes9343because subsonic suppressed with a large diameter, heavy bullet? My take is that this cartridge makes no sense supersonic.
It's the most damaging subsonic round available. That's a whole niche fulfilled. People hunt with 45-70 subs all the time.
Most damaging subsonic? Thats highly debatable and depends on the ranges involved. .375 raptor lets you use larger projectiles and you dont have to deal with spin drift at range.
And this wasnt part of your point, but the .375 is easily convertible in any .308 rifle with a barrel change.
And .308 brass is super easy to convert fo .375
8.6 is a cool caliber. And i definitely want one, but its not the end-all be-all caliber.
@@OACustomdo you know what Niche means?
good video boys. I'll never be able to afford this, but I always enjoy the cinematography and education
Tonight on 1911 Syndicate, Crispy acts like a human director, Jake lobs $5.00 bills into the snow, and the AZ Yeti is absent, he got lost making yellow snow......
I think you miss a very important aspect of the blackout bros, the fact that you can comfortably shoot supersonic and subsonic with the same barrel. You have the most desirable barrel length, IMO, because they seem to test it more than 8" for a short barrel. With a 12" barrel the supersonic is quite substantial, and even the subsonic on game. The 300 blackout was extremely popular for hogs, but mostly in supersonic. 8.6 lends to using subsonic on large game. I also want to say, I like the fact you specialize in real estate for shooters, that is something I wish I had but it is not meant to be. Buying the land as soon as possible is important, IMO, but take it with a grain of salt, I waited about 18 years to break ground.
Ehhhh well I got into airguns long before fire arms so if I wana give myself a massive disadvantage I'd just go for that, because pretty much any airgun that can hunt big game is going to be a very heavy projectile going very slow.
Or in short, who the fck actually wants to shoot big game with subsonic ammunition ? And more importantly.... why?
The 8.6 is poorly designed as a dual purpose cartridge. There are better ways to accomplish this than how Q did it.
@@randomidiot8142 So why don't you detail them?
@@cstgraphpads2091 I've done it multiple times in comments and on reddit. If you're not as gullible as a child, have internet access, and have some awareness of cartridges introduced in the last 100 years this is easy.
Q has their specs on their site. The 338 BR is the better dedicated subsonic option because it's a smaller case on the .473 boltface. Neck up BR brass and you're done. It's been done before with good results.
The 8.6 allows for 49mm cbto. An 8.6x47 is a straight neck up that will fit inside the cbto constraints of 49mm and fit the same high bc subsonic bullets, but it's a longer case that can hold more powder under shorter lighter supersonic bullets. It's the better multi use option. It has also been done before with excellent results in supersonic and subsonic applications.
Both options are easy. BR and x47 body dies are easy to source, and with a replacement neck bushing dies are covered. Reamers are easy. Either make a custom reamer or use the sub caliber br and x47 reamers with .338 pilots and cut necks and freebore separately. Brass is easy. Obtain and neck up. Barrels are easy. 1:3 is not mandatory for subsonics or highly desirable for supersonics. 1:6 is adequate for both.
It's all custom, you say? 8.6 isn't exactly affordable or reliably found. Reloading is the realistic source of ammo. Why not skip the annoyances of turning and reaming necks after sizing down .308 or creedmoor brass, and use cartridges that are better suited to do what the 8.6 is supposedly designed to do?
Wow. Great comment Random Idiot. You're like a sleeper of a TH-cam user.
I've got a 338 to look up, cheers.
I've had a .375 Raptor for a few years now so I don't really have a reason to go down to a smaller lighter caliber. Especially for sub sonic shooting.
As usual, reloading will cut the cost down, but it's still going to be niche and pricy. Luckily 300 BLK is fairly affordable, hopefully we see 8.6 BLK (338 BLK sounds cooler) get down to $2/round for normal FMJs.
Im making them for around 60 cents
@@JarenMeans alright, how? 300 grain 338 bullets seem to cost $.60 a piece to start and only go up from there, let alone powder and primer.
@@JarenMeanswhat bullet are you using? Powder? I’m not asking for load data from a stranger on the internet - just your components.
338 blackout does sound cooler.
Very Lighter Recoil When Considering The Larger Round & Quiet. CQB Pounder & Freight Train Power & Energy. 250 & Under A Sweet Set-Up. Longer Ranges At Larger Targets.
The breakthrough on the 8.6 is its ability to add energy on impact beyond your straight force vector of F=ma. The 1:3 twist adds a significant amount of energy to the projectile without breaching the sound barrier or changing mass. This transfers directly to the target/wound channel. That’s cool. It also was proven pretty substantially in ballistics gel when they were developing it. The other benefit of the 1:3 ratio is the stability out of a shorter barrel. Meaning you can carry less gun. The round being developed to use the 1:3 ratio well is why it’s significant, not that it’s large.
The round cost will come down as more companies make it.
Also, Q experimented with a 1:1 twist while in development, I thought that was interesting.
"Those 2 rounds cost me 6 dollars!" Sounds quiet expensive!!
Ain’t cheap
@@1911syndicateAmmo seek has 8.6 rounds for $2.31. Price is definitely coming down. Still isn't exactly cheap, but getting better!
I've always pronounced it heck-ate, but I got that from the PGM Hecate rifle.
"Hecate or Hekate, is a goddess in ancient Greek religion and mythology, most often shown holding a pair of torches, a key, snakes, or accompanied by dogs, and in later periods depicted as three-formed or triple-bodied. She is variously associated with crossroads, entrance-ways, night, light, magic, witchcraft, the Moon, knowledge of herbs and poisonous plants, graves, ghosts, necromancy, and sorcery."
it should be pronounced "heh-kuh-tee" as far I can google. CGS Group seems to like the Greek god theme with suppressor names.
Fun round to shoot, I have built one on an AR10 platform and I reload. So it is definitely fun to shoot but as you said it isn't cheap. It compares in price more to magnum shells than the "traditional" AR10 rounds like 308 or 6.5 CM. I literally haven't shot any commercial subsonic yet since I haven't been able to get any, but supersonic it has recoil similar to a 308 versus being in the magnum recoil range like a 6.5 PRC or .. a 300 WSM (ugh), although the ammo from Gorilla kicks harder than when reloading to the specs provided by Q. Great video guys, thanks.
300 blackout sort of made sense to me get a 30 cal hole out of a ar15. But several factory loads had issue with expansion in soft targets due to using 308 and 30/06 bullets that were designed to expand at higher velocities. I personally don’t see the need to hunt with subsonics nor do I see the need to use 300 blackout over 223 in the ar15 platform. I liked my 300 blackout as a toy essentially and it was fun but as a hunting pistol I never considered it effective for deer due to a lack of decent expansion. I’ve killed deer at 250+ yards with my 5.56 ar and it expanded successfully. My 30/30 is ballistically more useful than any blackout I ever shot.
Now my thoughts on 8.6 I think it’s mass and energy on target for such a little powder load is impressive. But if I wanted an action longer than a ar15 action id run a regular 308. We already had heavy slow fast dropping cartridges back in the late 1800s say hello to the 45-70 and it’s siblings. In my personal opinion 300 blackout is 30/30 reborn and 8.6 is 45-70 reborn and they both are a devolution in the munitions world. The only real benefit to them is silencing capability.
Yet if 8.6 proves to be a decent hunting cartridge then I might actually buy into it. Otherwise I’ll find another heavy slow cartridge that’s more abundant to play with.
Awesome video. Love your guys content. Wish you guys well for 2023
🍻
Agreed, love the content and quality of production
Thank you sir means slot
Excellent Coverage. The Q-Fix Bolt 8.6 Is Far Superior To Faxon Gas Guns With To Many Issues With The Gas System. With The Folding Stock Q-Fix I Can Carry Both My Q-Fix 8.6. I ONLY Run The BANISH & CGS Suppressors. Titanium & No Welds I Tell People Looking At Suppressors That Have Welds Inside Where Baffles Or Hollow With Double Locks & Not Taper-Locked Keep Shopping & Saving For Quality Suppressor.
Zero F's to give.
Fahrenheits....
Lol!
All out of F’s….
People usually hate on things they can’t get. Give this round 10 years it’ll be the best performing round on the market. Great for many applications
@@Fantasma781375 raptor smashes 86's face into the dirt and laughs about it, and then goes and smashes 86's mom while 86's dad watches.
Would love to own one, but dang most of Q stuff is expensive! 8.6 BO is insanely expensive and hard to come by. If you don’t commit to reloading, you asking for a headache infused money pit. Though it would be Pretty cool to go hunting with 😅
Maybe if the ammo price is comparable to .300 and the dimensions are still 30 cal size. Only because I haven’t got investment in blackout rounds yet and the extra range of 8.6 is nice.
This was so good I think you don't even need Chris any more. Just replace him with a dust mop wearing a CGS t-shirt.
That’s cool. It’s similar to the 350 legend and the 450 Bushmaster
450 Bushmaster being 350 legend on steroids
I always wondered if 300 blk had a big brother too. This rocks
I reload for 338 Lapua and 338 projectiles are about twice that of 30 cal. So, even when reloading, 8.6 is more expensive.
I’ve been loading 8.6blk subs for about $1.40 per round. Oof.
@Garland Bryant Oh dang that is about the same as much as 338 lapua. Little less.
It seems this would be a neat cartridge to hunt with subsonic and suppressed. The guy who already has some components laying around. Not something I could afford to shoot through a autoloader.
For hunting, I’d just go with a 45-70 lever action. Ammo is cheaper, it’s a manual action, and straight cases are easy to reload. Subs only seem useful for close-in hunting, nobody is taking ethical shots with subsonic levels of bullet drop past 100 yards. But, you see a deer in your field through the window? He’s dinner and it won’t wake up the toddler. That’s where I’m at with this concept.
Ave Maria totally works for the opening montage, great choice. Love your new sponsor, Pizza Mind :)
Haha 🤙🏻
i feel like the v7 seven ar-10 parts would be ideal for this so you get an ar-10 without the weight, and then just do a barrel swap. I feel like this wouldn't be ideal for cqb the same way as 300 blk is though, so maybe the bolt hunting route is the primary application.
if you want something with punch, a few assaulters with short barreled ar10's loaded with 25rd mags are gonna fuck some shit up. watching the Ukraine conflict, a maneuverable .308 or 8.6 in the trenches would be pretty handy
It's cool, and I dig it. My only concern is ammo availability. We've had enough issues with common rounds in the last few years at times, and I don't see things getting any better.
If things do get better, then I'll probably build myself one. Until then, I'll have to pass.
Fair enough
Take my MONEY!......got my bonus check, single now......living LARGE!....Also..that looks like a very nice piece of property! I guess you need a bigger chain for the Yeti?
Short range, you can get that performance from a .44 Magnum with a bullet of 300 plus grains in a bolt gun, or handgun. Conceivably in a lever gun. Just not in an AR.
Great editing as always 👌
Thank you🙌🏻
as a first time AR owner, I find your channel very informative and entertaining. Thank You for the the content
Glad you enjoy it 👍🏻
i think it’s super interesting partially also because i think the Qfix company owner guy has sort of “broken the glass” on this new level of cartridge development. I really think he’s blasted the trend to the next level. .300 black or .300AAC started it, per se…. and now I predict or my opinion is that a bunch of wildcatters arw going to be trying new rounds with 1:3 twisr barrels, or 1:4, or 1:5. It will be interesting to see of wildcatters do that!
I can reload 8.6 from 6.5 brass necked out and down to 8.6 spec, with factory second bullets for a little under $1 a shot.
Best part of the 8.6 is It doesn't take 5 shots it takes 1 and that 1 shot was overkill.
I care!!! I've been hog hunting with it and I'm lov'n the caliber. I have my reloading dies for it and have several hundred rounds for mine. I'm gonna be using mine on my Alaskan hunt'n trip this year. Oh Mos-Tek is making barrel's in 8.6 blk.
I was a few clicks away from buying a fix (wait a second, not that kind, the kind from q) then youtube showed something called 375 raptor. Heavier bullet faster fps (and similar twist rate to the 300 blk at 1/6.25) and 1000 lbs of energy, FROM 400 GR SUBSONIC. Not a cheap endeavor but then again neither is 86. Moa to 400 yards. So, i got in line.
It’s dumb quiet. I have a 12 inch 700 with a hekate it’s a lot of fun.
So I am all about subsonic performance, but with the subsonic .458 socom shooting 400 grains at subsonic speed why do we need a tweener? I went from 300 Bo to the socom. Love the rotational energy of the 8.6 but just can't justify it.
Why do you have to dial the drop? Can’t you use the reticle? I very rarely dial drop unless I am shooting at the same range for a long time if I have to make a quick shot I use holdover and drop built into the reticle
That drone scene was epic, now I want one…
Nothing better at emphasizing how quiet a round is than smothering it with loud, ponderous music.
That is a super substantial drop at 2-300 yards. 7.62x39 and 300blk have been good for TX pigs so far. Is this just for super close elk or am I missing something? Antelope and Oryx can already be taken with a 6.5 Creedmoor
Or you could run supers and push the distance more. You just lose the quiet aspect of it
@@1911syndicate now I have to go look at an 8.6 bolt action 😅 thanks alot
I think only focusing on subs is a big mistake. As an avid hunter, I'm very interested in this round as it can be run out of a very short barreled, folding stock rifle like the Fix. I'm not really interested in subs for hunting, although I know that they are still lethal. I've killed plenty of hogs with 300 blk subs but prefer supers for increased lethality . It should be noted that certain military groups are toying with the 8.6 as well. Not sure that goes anywhere but both CAG and DEV have been seen rocking the LVAW in 300 .blk
Fair enough
.338 Federal...
The shop I buy from has sold dozens of fix’s and they have had like half of them have problems with light strikes… it’s the gun not the ammo. Q suppressors also break allot as well… not the best QT imo but the service has been great.
Dang. Bummer
? Scammer ?
I mean you could do this or you could go even higher to 458 SOCOM with long subsonic projectiles for a bolt gun.
I'm still on the fence about finding the ammo right now but I'm really thinking about slapping together an AR just for this as a project. I think this in a short AR suppressed package would be ideal for a lot of the areas I hunt. 300 grain 338 bullets and close to medium range? Yes thank you!
Nice no-shit review. Thanks! 👍
We try to keep it fair
Imagine how fast the money would go in a semi auto 8.6 blackout...
Wow! Or even better a FULLY semi automatic!
Check out 338 razorback it's a trip lol a baby 8.6 blackout the projo is longer than the casing 😆
I recognize Silver City when I see it! Love that place
I can’t wait to get into this caliber. I just started getting into 300blk, but this is more like my pace. The bullet warms my heart in every way, especially seeing the gel and it’s wound cavity after a 1:3 twist rate….. DADDY CHILL
Also, I believe the fix is notorious for light primer strikes, just from what I understand. I do not have time behind it, so can’t make my own observations
I would love to see what it can do to some feral hogs! I hunt hogs all year round in south Ga & i use effective rounds (like .300 bo & .223/5.56) & some others that are usually effective in dispatching feral 🐷. Great video keep up the entertaining & informative content!
8.6 is neat but let's talk for a moment about where you're shooting, that is AWESOME.
It has good mass to it, so it's not completely worthless as the .300Blk. What does it do that half a dozen other big bore AR calibers don't? It's cute I suppose. As you guessed, I'm in the "nice idea, but don't care" column.
You can 100 percent hunt with 300 blackout. Barnes 110 grain vor-tx is a devastating deer cartridge.
As soon as ammo manufacturers started coming out with subsonic .350 Legend, the need for 8.6blk ceased to exist. Which is kinda rough for the 8.6 guys seeing as 350 Legend came out first.
Thanks
Great landscape.
here's what i dont get... with subs.. you can only push them so fast.. so is th extra case capacity really worth it? what you can push a heavier round vs .300 blk?
As someone who just got his cans outta jail and also recently got done with a 300blk I love shooting subsonic Roy ds suppressed. It’s cool for sure but HOT DAMN $3 per round!!! I need to start making You Tube videos to start getting some ammo for free cause that’s the only way I’d be able to shoot 8.6blk plus I’d have to save up for the can and wait another 10 months or more just to have some fun with it. So a minimum of two years before I could even have fun with it😂 maybe one day when they become more common
I call 300BLK "Capitalist 7.62x39". Just on specs alone, I'd call 8.6 Blackout "Bizarro 6.5 Creedmoor"
cost of ammo may come down due to some factors: #1 Its not a SAPI spec yet and #2 Does it take .338 Norma Magnum bullets? If it does, the US military bringing a .338LMG into service would drive production of those bullets way down (cases would still be an issue tho).
Also the bullets supposedly hit stupidly hard (one of the designers took a cape buffalo with one out of a 12" barrel) due to them rotating at something like 500k rpm and dumping all that rotational energy into the target
The whole "rotational energy" spiel is marketing BS.
Some of us do care.. TheFix in 12inc and Gorilla’s 8inc SemiAuto are something else. I can only hope this eForm waiting process won’t be chaotic. #PorqChop
Is the chop worth it ? I wanted it for a deer pistol
FYI 8.6 was made for special military use
Yeah rather weird that apparently it doesn't have tactical applications when it only came in to being because it was specifically requested by a certain military unit.
I CARE LOL.. I have a 16" fix and 8" ar10 in 8.6. I've also had a Kg made Rogue X 338 rum - 9mm can for it since 2019 when my buddy Ivan Loomis was first making content about it.
Question, how did you get your crazy looking username?
When google asked for my name years ago i just gave them my initials lol
This video didn’t age well. 8.6 blackout is mainstream. First batch of the boombox is completely sold out. $3 dollar rounds don’t mean anything for 4k plus rifles to people anymore.
I stand by it 100%. It is not mainstream.
Hmmm thinkin 20ga brass hulls necked down to 50cal
Are the 1911 Syndicates real estate agents?? I’m so confuse. 😂🤣 16:48
Yes
That sir is one sexy ass piece of hardware. With that setup I'm not sure it matters what caliber but why not make it a gas howitzer. Nice! Yall be safe thanks for the info
VIDEO IDEA: Top 10 “Do it all” pistols… handguns that can be an edc, concealed carry, and possibly a home defense
Wait! Did he just say you start with 6.5 Creedmore and neck down to 338. We'll, he did just say he wasn't a subject matter expert.
At 10:55 I see a Tasmanian Tiger backpack. What model is this one?
Shoot I can’t remember. We did a video on them a while back
The intro was so good I instantly scrubscribed!
I understand some Firehole 8.6 may have light primer strikes in bolt guns
We used multiple manufacturers. So it wasn’t the ammo
@@1911syndicate oh snap
It's a cool departure from everyone else. It could be a game changer but I'll let everyone else test it first. I have no immediate need for an sbr hunting cartridge like that. But man it sounds good.
Sounds excellent
.375 Raptor existed first, its way cheaper to reload, isn't limited to solid copper bullets for fast supersonics, can work from an AR-10 as well.
The only departure is needed an absurdly fast twist-rate on the barrel in order to properly stabilize the heavier and longer .338 bullets from a relatively short barrel. That's really not an advantage.
Beautiful intro music.
Glad you boys got to give it a rip 🤘🏼 Hit us up for all your 8.6 needs!
I think it's extremely relevant. Especially living in an urban environment with a silencer. Being quiet can save your ass.
Faxxon makes the only barrels I can find for this
Correct
Porq chop is 12oz. Hekate is 18 oz
So it's basically the ultimate evolution of the Delisle carbine? At least when fired out of that platform.
I love the serious $6 2 round facts!
I think the original Jurassic Park can be applied to 8.6 BLK: too preocupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. I mean, it might be cool what it can do, but why would I want to do it?
Thank you for pointing out the significant differences in 300 and 8.6 BLK, not just in cartridge dimensions but in application. It seems a lot of people think 8.6 is just "300 BLK for AR-10s, so it must be awesome!" Except they don't realize 300 BLK succeeded so well because of the lighter, cheaper AR-15 platform. As you said, it successfully bridged the gap between sub-gun and military carbine, and does it quite well. But I don't see anyone that wants to kick down doors with a bigger, heavier AR-10.
And 300 BLK does have quite a few hunting applications. It's much better than .223 for medium game, and many places don't allow .223 for things like deer or bigger.
My limited hunting experience says anything past 150 yards starts getting iffy with subsonic rounds. Drop alone isn't a problem because it's very predictable. But the long flight time to target means more time for the wind to affect the bullet, more time for the animal to move before impact, and other variables. At 300 yards, you're approaching a full second of flight time, whereas a regular .308 travels that far in 1/3 second. Then there's the question whether the place you're hunting will allow shorter barrels for hunting. And not to mention you need a .338 suppressor, not just a .308 suppressor, which are far more common.
To my understanding, the idea is similar to .277, the claim is that it's a 12" sbr that supposedly outperforms full sized battle rifles. I guess the benefit over .277 would be cost, the ability to run subs, the minor matter of an inch in difference and the parts compatibility that you already mentioned. Seems pretty awesome to me if any of that's actually true.
So how does it stack up against 9x39 VSS?
"I do not have a yeti to hold a gun."
🤣 poor Chris
6:50 sensor dust ............ i hate sensor dust
I love these new cartridges that appeal to actual shooters.
The biggest thing about these new things like 300 and 8.6, is that they're actually usable in the real world without hearing loss. The second thing is the versatility of subs vs supers.
In the real world, hunting or home defense, or shtf, these insanely loud cartridges are largely unusable.
Don't believe me, grab your rifle and shoot it, wherever you are, or really anywhere, and see how that goes. Without hearing protection you're fucking wrecked. Pop off some 5.56 out of a 10" and see if you're not fucking deaf for the rest of the day. You can't shoot, move, or communicate effectively after that. God bless of its a whole strong of fire from several people, you're fucking done then. Subs are the future of practical weapons use. And also suppresors, but that comes with other issues.
Very good video sir. Your explanations were spot on and able for those not involved in the shooting hobby to understand. Excellent work sir.
👍🏻🤙🏻
Great for cape buffalos and urban fights.
When are we gonna get 8 x 40 SETME back?
I'll be excited when I get a 8.6 blackout.
I think you kinda hit the nail on the head usage wise. Kevin, the owner of Q lives on the east coast and hunts in the African bush a lot where most of the hunting is within 400 yards. From what I've seen of his hunting he brings along a 6.5 for getting longer range stuff, but like 60-70% of the shots are gonna be inside of that 400 yard range. And the ability to have a compact rifle that is easily suppressed means he can have his rifle sitting on his lap jump out of the truck unfold his stock and take a shot without worrying about everyone getting their ears on.
Basically he designed a round for himself and the type of hunting he is doing.
He doesn't hunt. He drives around in a truck and harvests animals for the gram.
@@theliberating1 yup that's exactly what he does lol I'm sure you've been in the African bush hunting so you know all about it👍
I wonder if you could convert an SFAR to run 8.6blackout?
That's a pretty neat concept. I know the SFAR accepts standard AR15 handguards but I have no idea what spec of barrel it uses.
I'm a hunter, and I don't have any interest. For hunters, we already have hundreds of cartridges to pick from, and if you're handloading, then you can do far better than $3/round for similar or far better performance. 338 Federal is supported by Wilson Combat and is a fantastic hunting round. 8.6 seems to me to be a gimmic. If .300 blk is not enough energy for your quarry, and you feel you need a bigger bullet than .308, I don't think anyone with a long action rifle in their safe will think "yes, a meme cartridge that can only accept solid one-piece bullets and has no factory support is what I need." 338 federal or dozens of other cartridges could be handloaded for far less with less concern of bullets coming apart for far less, perform better than 8.6, and bought from objectively better companies than Q.