Charles Ives - Symphony No. 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- New York Philharmonic
Leonard Bernstein
Date: 1990
Symphony No. 2 was written by Charles Ives between 1897 and 1901. Although the work was composed during Ives' 20s, it was half a century before it premiered, in a 1951 New York Philharmonic concert conducted by Leonard Bernstein. The symphony premiered to rapturous applause but Ives responded with ambivalence. Indeed, he did not even attend the concert in person but had to be dragged by family and friends to a neighbor's house to listen to the live radio broadcast. The public performance had been postponed for so long because Ives had been alienated from the American classical establishment. Ever since his training with Horatio Parker at Yale, Ives had suffered their disapproval of the mischievous unorthodoxy with which he radically pushed the boundaries of European classical structures to create soundscapes that recalled the vernacular music-making of his New England upbringing.
Like Ives' other compositions which honor the European and American inheritances, the Second Symphony never makes verbatim quotation of popular American tunes such as "Columbia, the Gem of the Ocean", "Camptown Races", "Long, Long Ago", and "America the Beautiful", but reshapes and develops them into broad themes. There is a subdued version of the opening notes of Beethoven's fifth symphony and a rescoring of part of Brahms' first symphony, as well as a reference (early in the first movement) to the chorales of Johann Sebastian Bach. The work is an interesting precedent to another significant piece of the 20th century, Luciano Berio's Sinfonia, which was composed about 65 years later. Ives' 5th movement uses quotation techniques comparable to Berio's in his 3rd movement.
Bernstein's premiere and subsequent interpretations were later widely criticized for taking extravagant liberties with the score. Although the 1951 score itself contained about a thousand errors, Bernstein reportedly also made a substantial cut to the finale, ignored Ives' tempo indications, and prolonged the terminating "Bronx cheer" discord. Many conductors and audiences, influenced by Bernstein's example, have enthusiastically considered the last of these practices one of the trademarks of the piece. In 2000, the Charles Ives Society prepared an official critical edition of the score and authorized a recording by Kenneth Schermerhorn and the Nashville Symphony Orchestra to adhere more closely to Ives' intentions.
Movements:
0:00 Andante moderato
6:16 Allegro
17:28 Adagio cantabile
29:16 Lento maestoso
32:20 Allegro molto vivace - เพลง
Dear Classical Musc11 - I'm 69 and this is the first time I've heard this composer's music! I'm at the 4 minute mark and I must say, I'm enjoying this immensely! Thanks for sharing!
I'm 58, and I just heard it only a week ago myself. I have performed both the orchestral and the band transcriptions of his theme and variations of "My Country 'Tis of Thee" (actually titled, "Variations on America"), which was originally composed for organ. Prior to this, I had never heard any other of Ives' works.
I hadn't planned on reposting the Wikipedia opening paragraphs, but below is part of what W. has to say about the "Variations on America":
Composed in 1891 when Ives was seventeen, it is an arrangement of a traditional tune, known as "America (My Country, 'Tis of Thee)" (words by Samuel Francis Smith), and was at the time the de facto anthem of the United States. The tune is also widely recognised in Thomas Arne's orchestration as the British National Anthem, "God Save the Queen", and in the former anthems of Russia ("The Prayer of Russians", from 1816 to 1833), Switzerland ("Rufst du, mein Vaterland", until 1961), and Germany ("Heil dir im Siegerkranz", from 1871 to 1918), as well as being the current national anthem of Liechtenstein ("Oben am jungen Rhein") and royal anthem of Norway.
Ives prepared it for a Fourth of July celebration in 1892 at the Methodist church where he was organist in Brewster, New York. He performed it for the first time on February 17, 1892, and made revisions to the work until 1894. Although the piece is considered challenging even by modern concert organists, he spoke of it as being "almost as much fun as playing baseball".[1]
It went unpublished until 1949, when the organist E. Power Biggs rediscovered it, and prepared an edition for publication. He incorporated it into his repertoire, and it became a regularly performed piece by American organists. In 1962 it was orchestrated by William Schuman, and premiered in this version by the New York Philharmonic under Andre Kostelanetz in 1964. The Schuman orchestration formed the basis of a wind band version by William E. Rhoads, published in 1968.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_on_%22America%22
@@snickpickle Greetings! You replied to my comment 4 months ago (if that's correct) I'm just now seeing it for the first time! I am probably the slowest man in America. It's horrible when you move slower than a turtle, moan! What instrument do you play? I'm only a drummer - and not in a symphony orchestra! Top 40 and rock/Christian rock are my limits! God bless you and stay healthy. This CoVid thing has become overwhelming, sheesh.
I am 70, and just recently discovered Ives after an infatuation with Stravinsky and Ravel. Ives has a sound all his own, and I am enjoying his works immensely!
My favorite symphony. No matter how many times I listen to that finale, I never get tired of it.
Mine too.
Heard Leonard Bernstein conduct the last movement of this symphony as an encore at an incredible concert in London, Ontario, 1967. It was the inaugural concert for Centennial Hall, and I was 13 years old and just bedazzled by "Lenny in person". He really was a force, a showman, and a freaking genius conductor. The audience just roared at that final sassy discord, then jumped to their feet. Maestro took bow after sweaty, hair-flopping bow, then pointed at his watch, made a "sleepy-time" gesture with his folded hands, and swept off the stage, his smile beaming over us like a searchlight. What a memory! (BTW, I have not heard this piece since!)
What a beautiful memory. Seriously.
@@TastyChevelle I remember just about every detail of that concert. The first half was Mahler`s 4th symphony, what I used to call the ``jingle bell`` symphony (which is still my favorite), and the second half was Debussy`s La Mer, followed by that incredible encore!
wonderful! thank you for sharing
@@ferociousgumby And Lenny did the last note (the "raspberry") held as a half note or staccato like in the score?
No matter how many times I listen to this beautiful piece, the last chord always gives me goosebumps, wow.
A personal favorite of mine since childhood!
It doesn't get any more American than this!
Count the various themes and hymns!
A real gem!
Great symphony. Was never played publicly for 50 years. Ives truly was ahead of his time. . Apparently one critic describing the last note of the finale wrote "It is the biggest musical custard pie ever thrown into the faces of an audience by a composer"!
Iconic Ives. The best and certainly the most unique of American composers.
+Phil Homes don't forget Cage and Feldman and Lucier...
+emilianoturazzi Most definitely!
How can you be the most unique? You are either unique, or someone else is.
A troll's comment, one of no value whatsoever.
No sir, being unique is not a zero sum game. Many people, in fact all people, are unique in some way. It's not the crown or anything, where only one person gets to where it. Silly.
Never expected this ending ! Great piece.
The playing is superb throughout. A very sensitive and intense account. Just read that Ives and his wife heard the work on the radio with Bernstein conducting. On their cook's radio! They were both amazed at the warm response by the audience. Not an experience Ives had very often I suspect. Few composers move me like Ives.
Makes me smile in sadness. What an unrecognised talent. I wish people had a broader sense of music
On their neighbour's radio, not their cook's.
That was like reading a book that ends in the middle of a sentence.
robotfolly Like reading The Affirmation by Christopher Priest.
Like Krapp's Last Tape
I could not have said that better.
It’s like a metaphor for 21st century USA, crazy and messed up but quite likeable.
Ives would have loved that response!
Charles Ives they greatest symphonic composer of America ( north and south).
That's an arguable statement.
An iconic and symphonic man of genius Charles Ives!
After listening to that last movement, I have decided that Charles Ives is my favorite composer.
+
42:20 “Maybe we should play so quietly, no one can hear us.”
He's got his Ives on you.
A true hidden gem!
I like very much the interpretations of Bernstein together with his orquestra.
Very beautiful. I have only ever heard more 'dissonant' Ives which do not appeal to me - but this music is a revelation. BBC Radio3 are doing a Record Review of this work on 24/2/17 at 9.30 am (GMT).
This symphony has great counterpoints and resonances. The 1st .. he wrote as a student for Horatio Parker ... has a very similar feel to it as this. Dvorak and Brahms influences obvious, but has real earworms. Don't give up on his later "dissonant" stuff, it grows on you. Recommend reading his wiki entry; he was a most interesting blend of businessman and musiciab, like his father before him.
just heard this symphony live today and like the last chord hit me like a truck, that's literally the best thing about this masterpiece (right after the horn solo *-*)
That last chord is Lenny's invention. Not Ives.
Actually, the last chord was already added by Ives when he composed the symphony. It's just that Bernstein made it much longer during the actual performance.
Yes, and Ives absolutely hated it.
Your info is incorrect. Please explain.
Lo escuche por primera vez en 1969 Hermosa obra
had never heard of this man until today while listening to the unlikely Ornette Coleman, father of free Jazz
I loved the bit near the end that sounded like reville.
ravel?
This is very beautiful.
Perfect Cadences: exist
The ending of Ives's Second Symphony: I'm about to end this man's whole career.
Great piece but what even was that ending, lol? It felt like the entire symphony all had cardiac arest and then died at the same time!
I broke out in Ives.
Leonard Bernstein changed that ending to make it sound like a sassy "Bronx cheer."
It's Ives being Ives. But, really what it was inspired by was a traditional way of ending a night of barn dances by a fiddler (I guess the kind of barn dances that would happen in Ives's Danbury, CT town back in the day). At the end of the night to signal the end of the evening, by tradition, the fiddler playing would run their bow across the strings making a loud discord at the end of the last tune for the night. Ives captures alot of these moments from his past in his work (parade brass bands, sometimes multiple marching past each other playing in different keys etc., local church bells ringing...). I'm reading a great biography on Ives by Jan Swafford - highly recommend it. Ives is so interesting because he was doing things decades before they became hip, but the music is actually about nostalgia and the past. He's one of the most fascinating and original composers who has ever lived
@@brentmarquez4157 Yes, he wrote about his experiences with a life in music. His Father was a Civil War bandmaster and was at Gettysburg. "Washington's Birthday" is a barn dance which must have been how it was celebrated then. "Decoration Day," now Memorial Day, is a tone poem about that day in New England. He's America's greatest composer!
@@brentmarquez4157 Swafford wrote an Ives bio? I adore his Beethoven bio, so the Ives is a must-have. Thanks for mentioning it.
I loved the ending
Beautiful!
This is an excellent video, and opens up a lot of things I'm interested in.
splendid!
fantastic
So good.
Thanks for putting this up!
No problem Karl. I think Ives was a magnificent composer who deserves to be heard more often.
Classical Music11 I agree, we just saw this performed at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. First half was an actor led performance of Ives life including period music and singers with the orchestra, 2nd half was Symphony No. 2, First rate, standing ovations. CSO is amazing. Not typical, like Ives.
Karl Young Lucky you, I bet that was quite the experience. Unfortunately, Ive's music is not played as often here in the U.K, which is both baffling and frustrating. CSO is one of, if not my favourite orchestra in the world, I particularly like the Solti and Reiner eras.
That ending :))
I like that ending too!
O_O
I love Bernstein's version and miss the extended "Bronx cheer" in other versions. If Ives, my greatest musical hero, is disgruntled with me in heaven I guess I just have to live with that.
You certainly won't be visiting Ives in Heaven.
maybe you'll run into Bernstein instead
@hugo That's for me to know and you to find out.
sublime
The music world seems to have forgotten him. His music is never discussed in "serious" music groups. That happens. Then composers are rediscovered. It even happened to Stravinsky.
Yes kids, one of the most innovative and gifted composers of the 20th century was an insurance sales man. Only in America.
You make it sound as if he went door-to-door selling insurance. He actually co-founded a successful Wall Street firm. He trained salesmen and became wealthy.
Ives was not an insurance salesman, but a claims adjustor for Ives & Merrick, a business he was the co-owner of.
Kids? adults are the dumb ones... And most people everywhere who came into their greatness did other things too. no mystery
What a great chord that is.
Frank sent me
I am in NZ and I have liked Ives for some time. He was innovative. He liked to mix different themes and kind of intermodulate. Shoenberg admired him. He won the Pulitzer for music. I read about his as, as a writer I like to use similar techniques of 'quoting'. Discordance of dissonance doesn't worry me. He is "brilliant and deep" as someone said here...
Ives attended the premiere of The Suntreader by Carl Ruggles. According to the account, several audience members were on their feet, expressing displeasure at the dissonance and rhythmic complexity. Ives, never a shrinking violet, uttered, " sit down and use your ears like a man you sissy."
@@frankcarmack1442 Hi Frank. This is some time ago! I read something about Ives and other various contemporary musicians, as I was interested in their ideas. Ives was interesting, great probably. I recall the response he made! He was clearly passionate, kind of cranky passionate. It must have been great to be there! I liked the story of his father accepting all kinds of good and bad singers in his choirs and also how Ives liked the effect of the intermodulation I suppose it was between the sounds of two bands approaching along a street toward each other. It is natural these kinds of composers are less popular but that is the way things go. All the best!
When Ives was informed that he was to be awarded the Pulitzer Prize for his third symphony, he groused, "prizes are for boys and I am a grown-up type of person". This was related for me by Bernard Herrmann, who was a great admirer of Ives.
@@jslasher1 He was a great composer. Despite someone saying they heard Bernstein conducting I have a CD of some of his works and it is spoilt by Bernstein's comments at the end of it as I play it sometimes at night before I go to sleep. These days almost the only time I listen to music. Nor do I watch television or listen to any radios. In general I don't like hearing people talk, as I like to read books. But now and then listen as I go to sleep. I was interested in Modern and other Music as I am poet-writer and use experimental ideas some of which I know were used by many modern composers, right back at least to Wagner. But Ives is someone special, and very interesting. There are a lot of innovative musicians in the US (as well as jazz and "pop" innovators and sometimes the two or other genres styles etc are combined). Schoenberg I believe was impressed very much by Ives. John Ashbery, who I like a lot, wrote some of his poems listening to Ives et al....
This symphony just end before it finishes its last
Lol, that last note, what a troll.
BAHAHHAHA!!! You just made me laugh out loud.
The last note, a sort-of 'bronx cheer', was added by Bernstein, who increased the note value as well. Ives, who listened to the performance on a neighbour's radio, reportedly spat when he heard it. Bernard Herrmann particularly loathed the Bernstein performance.
Can somebody tell the full story about this?
Incorrect, he just prolongled the note from an originally stipulated 8th to more than a half note. He also took a bunch of other liberties with the score.
@@MrHestichs Won a Pulitzer Prize in 1947... well his Third symphony did
What an ending!!!
Ha! The ending was like him sticking out his tongue at us!
A unique rhythmic interpretation at 5:43. The work of Bernstein?
❤❤❤
Best ending
(Pardon my german) Aber die beiden ersten Sinfonien von Ives sind die mir am besten übriggeliebenden romantischen Sinfonien, die ich heute immer noch gern höre. Die Brahmserei funktioniert mir noch im Ohr; aber Ives ist wundervoll; wie der frühe Schönberg... :-D
Compositeur et oeuvre trop méconnus!
En effet !
I know 5 very great american musicians : Lester Young, John Coltrane, Bob Dylan, Patti Smith and Charles Ives.
all white all white
arles chives
Bernstein recorded the Ives Symphony No.2 two times, and 30 years apart with the New York Philharmonic - the first taping was in 1960 and was issued on the Columbia label (KS 6165). The second recording was made much later in 1990 and on the Deutsche Grammophon label (429 220-2). Which of these is the performance here?
+billinrio Hi, sorry for the late reply. This is the 1990 performance. I'll update it in the description.
+Classical Music11 Right. I do prefer the earlier performance. As he aged, Bernstein tended to conduct everything more slowly. Recent musical scholarship has produced a new Critical Edition that includes Ives' final thoughts on the 2nd Symphony, which weren't in accordance with many things that Bernstein did. For example, the length of that final chord should be very short. A recording that uses the Critical Edition is on Naxos, featuring the Nashville Symphony Orchestra conducted by Kenneth Schermerhorn.
Bernard Herrmann also adheres to Ives original score [not the so-called Critical Edition prepared by the CIS].
Avant-Garde.
Don't tell me that 32:43, 34:18, and 34:35 weren't inspired by Dvorak's 9th...
They weren't.
You have good ears. They most certainly were.
They weren't what?
they were. both IVES 1st and 2nd were very heavily Dvorak
Dvorak on acid...
Do I hear part of New World Symphony?
The protestant work ethic.
Bernstein made a mistake turning the final chord into a raspberry, what’s in the score is the same notes loud and staccato.
I wish Bernstein had followed Ives' score - that last note being the most prominent case in point. It should not be a half-note, but an eighth, much briefer and sharper.
You are correct. Bernard Herrmann follows Ives manuscript note for note, omitting the Bronx Cheer [optional].
Bernstein liked so much this coposer.....of course he was american!
vers la 5 minute il y a Dvorak aussi et sa symphonie du nouveau monde..
Phil Lesh brought me here.
@William Ruddock me three!!
So great. Join us on FB and Twitter: #IvesThrives!
Just did!
This had to be right before Lenny left this mortal coil. He passed in 1990.
This shows how Johannes Brahms influenced so many composers after him to write original music but rooted on european techniques and forms. Even Gershwin and jazz composers/arrangers were influenced by Brahms so deeply, thank God more than Wagner. Expresionism and Impresionism are equally consequence of Brahms music, not to mention Bach and Beethoven, Hungarian music and folk european. Listen and enjoy. Thank you.
Yeah. I grew up on the Bernstein DG CD purchased upon release. The opening movement is more Brahmsian than Brahms. Fortunately the CD also contained many other pieces on it allowing me to learn that there was more to Ives than Symphony 2. Now with YT I know that Ives is a master perhaps on a level equal to Brahms.
28.17-28.35 i know this melody.....
What is this. ?
41:00
The last section of the finale is virtually the last music Ives wrote..He added it in 1942 to replace the rather uninspired original ending. If you care to hear that version the new recording of the 2nd by Dudamel has it for some reason..and it's clearly inferior to this revision. Ives stated that the last chord of the symphony echoed the last chord played by a fiddler at a barn dance to indicate the playing was finished...an across the strings swipe of the bow, including playful dissonances...
Is there anything more American sounding than this symphony? It’s not just that he borrowed so many familiar hymns and tunes, it’s that the overall effect is still so American sounding. This should be appearing regularly in concert halls and I’m glad Bernstein and Tilson Thomas did their parts to make it standard fare. It doesn’t feel like 45 minutes go by because it’s so engaging from beginning to end. Definitely my favorite Ives work. Innovative and much ahead of its time.
41.30 CHARGE !!!!!
searching for Vienne trio discordance
Certainly not the urtext performance. Bernstein might have considered himself to be the foremost Ives exponent. He was simply tooting his B-flat trumpet. A better performance is to be heard in the London/Decca Phase-4 recording with the LSO conducted by Bernard Herrmann, who used the corrected Ives manuscript, which the composer had approved decades before.
Awaiting your analysis of Bernstein's 2nd.
Comment for myself!! 9:50, 15:00
It's gobbledygook.
Weird last chord xd
No para mi.
the book that ends in the middle of the sentence? james joyce, finnegan/s wake. listen to the 4th, much more finnegan begin again..
Listen to Diamond's 4th!
Parts sounds a little Brahms-y and Beethoven-y to me.
Andrew Johnson His professor wanted him to imitate Brahms, but Ives liked the somewhat lighter and folksier style of Dvorak, which he thought sounded more American and less heavily Germanic.
+George Matusek Considering that Dvorak was inspired by Brahms' 3rd symphony to write his 7th, there is an indirect connection anyway. :)
But I like this artistic choice. I take a lot of inspiration from Dvorak when I compose too. His orchestral pieces are like stories told by an orchestra.
Richard Dey
Gosh...I imagine Yale should take seriously your commentary. I'll somehow ship the siht to the New Haven.
Good comments. Ives was a 'homophobe' who disinherited Cowell when he learnt that Henry was gay.
huh, I was expecting a big dissonant mess like what most of Ives music sounds like to me, but this piece actually sounds like music
I want to speak only about Bernstein, because i have listened when he was on Rome (Italy) for one concert with Accademia nazionale S.Cecilia . For one time i have listened to go very well those orchestra.
But about Charles Ives i say that from much time i know only the " Variations of America" , composition for organ. No problem about these ; on little time the people don't know more the 9 sinfonie of Beethoven .
Ives don't know to compose like R.Strauss or Mahler Gustav .
first - it s partly much more Brahms than Dvorak - it has nothing with Dvorak.
second - reminds me Shostakovich 10 th symphony in the special style. well, surely not bad. good motifs, but as the complete symphony rather boring.
Of course Ives was only trying to compose like Ives. You are not the first to misunderstand him. There are times I think Richard Strauss didn't know how to compose like Richard Strauss.
@@katachi1 You seem predisposed to classification my friend.
The very last f*cking messure in the finale of this symphony (from 1897-1902), a sharp dissonant chord, is an addition by Ives himself from the last years of his life (so before 1954). Ives was very aware of his reputation as an 'awkward maestro' and by changing in an awkward sence the final messure of his tonal-written 'naive' second symphony, he, he enforced that reputation deliberately: kind of 'revenge' towards his critics. The shortness of this last dissonant chord is a fabrication by Leonard Bernstein: in it's original form it takes much more time.
You are wrong in your last sentence: the last note is supposed to be short, an eighth note in the original. Bernstein tampered with the score by making it a half note or longer, just to make it more "shocking" for no good reason. It's a distortion and a very, very cheap way of getting a reaction from the listener. Bernstein also made a cut in the finale and took other liberties with the score.
The very last chord seemed to be somewhat of a "Snook" to use a British term.
It's nice but I like Salieri better
superbe humour.
Ives' 2nd movement sounds an awful like the 4th movement of Hindemith's Symphonic Metamorphosis
Ives most likely wrote this symphony before Hindemith wrote that.
Kind of like the Soprano's ending. Actually only one note more would have completed the musical thought.
about all the this-is-not-the-urtext deal : why shoudln't Bernstein, or whoever, be free to take a big shit on the sheet's instructions? Conductors interpret. Composers should conduct themselves for a "perfect" depiction or, if dead, they might as well not live with it lol
I hate Bernstein's interpretation, particularly the fifth movement. I'll choose Bernard Herrmann's any day despite its' leisurely tempi.
You hate it? Why?
If you're going to say you "hate" it, don't you think you have at least a neighborly obligation to let us know the reason you "hate" it?? Otherwise, what would be the point of such a comment?????
@@blancheleblah1195 I am NOT your neighbour, so I don't owe you a reason.
@@andrewpetersen5272 It does not follow the corrected Ives ms. Simple enough.
@@andrewpetersen5272 I hate it because it doesn't adhere to Ives corrected ms.
hopefully the last synphony
Do try to improve yourself.
Phil Lesh brought me here