@@brettcooper3893 Right, but is this actually going to produce a superior audio signal to your speakers than a normal decent quality player? Probably not. The differences would likely need lab gear to even register. That's the nature of digital signals, it doesn't matter how much line noise there is, within reason, as long as the 1's and 0's get there.
@@avi8r66 The problem is... Most of the times the differences do not even register on the instruments. A Good cd player is able to replicate at line level what was written on the disc without adding (making up) or subtracting (losing) anything. I will not dive into why sometimes audiophiles like to lose part of the information or listen to made up informations (I am regarding the contents of the disc as information) because psychological matters and personal taste are not measurable with a device. Those devices are neat feats of engineering, but overpriced.
@@gabrieleorioli1760 Sure there are emotional reasons to buy this, but I would be hard to convince their is a technical reason behind that price tag. Amazing build quality of the case and electronics might justify up to, maybe, $2,000US, but no more. Beyond that it's all branding and uniqueness.
@@avi8r66 not true, Swiss manufacture is very expensive especially in small production quantities like this CD player. Many parts are unique to this item so that costs more too as it lacks economies of scale. I owned this CD player for a couple of years and yes it’s a lovely thing. Doesn’t sound any different from a cheaper one though.
When the Swiss make something it is usually very high quality and expensive. Some of their pistols are that way. You can pay $2000 to $3000 dollars for a Swiss made 9mm pistol made back in the 70's
@@bertroost1675 Its the wrong kind of Retro, stupid :-) The kind we had in the 90´s on all sorts of consumer hifi machines from CD-players to Micro wave ovens . A kid born in 2005 might find this retro, and the kids born in the 60´s 70´s and 80´s might remember these kind of display as ugly and cheap, because these displays could be found exactly in every electronic device ever made during this period.There is nothing retro about it. Its just bad,cheap looking like a chinese washing machine you can buy today
@@bertroost1675 Oh...look one person born i the 60´s gives a statement about how much he loves a 20 grand machine with a cheap display ....And he doesent have "a problem" with it. Thank you sir for your input. Your are bold and courageous . Hat of for you Sir. Your opinion matters so much for all born in the 60´s
@@bertroost1675 The display in your photo matches the design aesthetic of the unit, because it was custom designed for it. This thing looks like a high school Arduino project, like another commenter said. And if you watch carefully around 30 seconds, and as the camera moves above the unit, it becomes almost unreadable if you are not standing directly in front of it. It's not just an ugly generic display, it's a *cheap* ugly generic display.
It disappoints me that a Swiss machine at this price point has a cheap off-the-shelf blue HD44780 LCD, when Noritake and Futaba have been making custom multi-color VFDs for companies like Aiwa and Soundesign since the 70s. At the very least they could have matched the color of the meters or controls.
VFDs burn out sooner or later. Using a standard display unit might be an advantage in the long run when it comes to repairability. While I would never ever spend the kind of money that Nagra demands for any of their gear, I appreciate that everything they make is repairable for a very long time.
@@jimboblivesforever Everything burns out sooner or later. The laser has a shorter life expectancy than the display! Not an excuse to use a cheap ugly part IMO. They could have put a full color OLED display on there for less than the cost of that dual-needle meter. I do agree with futureproofing and repairability but even this sort of cheap display comes in other backlight colors that would have matched the design.
@@jimboblivesforever I'm not sure what makes you think a custom VFD is so difficult to replace, or why you'd expect Nagra not to be capable of stocking adequate replacement parts for future repair needs. A VFD is a panel of glass with some phosphor silkscreened onto it, and some grid electrodes spot welded over it. You could make one in your kitchen as a weekend project. And if you absolutely couldn't find one, and Nagra didn't have any spares left, Noritake will make you an engineering sample for a very reasonable price with any design you want in about three weeks. This whole CD player is custom engineered for performance, except the display, which is a cheap off the shelf part that doesn't even have decent off-angle performance. It's hard to imagine the same people who insisted on putting $400 worth of linear bearings on the drawer would have settled for basically the cheapest available display technology, let alone a display that doesn't even match its backlight color to the rest of the indicators.
Nagra almost has a VacuumState look to them, both made in Switzerland and both Uber hi-end. Nagra is slightly more utilitarian/industrial but beautiful and functional at the same time. Totally enjoyed the walkthrough of the Nagra, thanks.
Its better than a crappy, laggy, crashy android interface that with a bad color lcd with lots of lite bleed, and non responsive touch controls with UI thats outdated 5 years ago.
Technology of the 21st century obviously moves in two ways: either TANASHIN which units cost some $20 or NAGRA which units cost some $20k. Sadly, there's nothing left between 20 and 20k. Nobody needs decent but budget-wise Hi-Fi anymore?
You can't get it as one piece of equipment, but you can build a very nice mid-range setup with individual parts. Just buy a CD player with TOSlink out, a decent TOSlink DAC and an amplifier. This will give you very high quality CD playback for a few hundred dollars.
@@gayusschwulius8490 TOSLINK is crap though. Not only is it S/PDIF which has horrible time domain performance due to muxing the clocks, it is compounded by the poor quality of consumer optical (plastic lines, LED emitters) resulting in even worse performance. You'd be better off with I2S or USB, if possible.
@@TheGamerUnknown Any decent modern DAC has an internal clock and buffer anyways, so timing issues really don't matter anymore (they were barely audible, even in the infancy of digital audio, anyways). I agree that S/PDIF is a pretty archaic protocol compared to modern equivalents, but it mostly does its job. VWestLife has made a great video in which he demonstrates how robust it is even under non-ideal circumstances.
@@gayusschwulius8490 This isn't necessarily true. Lots of DACs just use the clock coming from S/PDIF. Buffering is really only done with ASYNC USB. If you compare the jitter performance between something like a cheap optical implementation and a really nice input implementation (Holo Audio's Titanus USB, Schiit's Unison USB, etc) the difference in measured jitter is pretty staggering. Whether it's audible is debatable and will depend on the chain. Time domain performance is much more audible to humans than something like harmonic distortion.
yes , we still buy cd's , they are good , also records. Streaming sucks , you don't own it , internet down , no music......................no money for artists/ they are cheated
"TOC" is a specific term relating to CDs. It does stand for that, but it's always been referred to like the sound a clock makes. Not that you're wrong... I would call this an "excuse." After all, they also spelled out "Switzerland" right next to the Swiss Cross, so why not be consistent?
It sounds exactly like any other CD player out there, because, digital. And their not mentioning the sound quality is exactly the point. Funny where the demonstrator even mentions that the specifications don't talk about the DAC in use except that it's 24 bits. The sound samples on the CD are 16 bits. You only need something like a 24 bit DAC (or higher) if you are *mixing* audio tracks- Then you render them to 16 bit for distribution. You only buy this to impress other people about what a knob you are. It's just for the status.
My dad used to have a Nagra III and the controls are identical, really nostalgic to see. I was kind of hoping for an audio quality review but I guess it goes without saying…
Gorgeous! 100% my cup of tea, style-wise, quality-wise. I'd rather have this than any obscure "audiophile brand". Unfortunately it's about 20x my budget for a CD player 😭
I think that's awesome and I usually dislike high end hifi for being over blown. It looks like it is home made, in the best possible sense. (Like a person made the whole thing themselves - with care) If I had the money spare, I'd certainly buy one.
I have such hope of finding some Nagra equipment one day at an estate sale or someone who who is clueless to the brand- like some of the naysayers posting comments.
As much as I appreciate the Nagra company, the device is a bit expensive! I myself own a NAGRA IV-S (analog recorder) and a NAGRA V (digital recorder). They were also expensive - but they were fantastic devices and we can only congratulate Mr. Kudelski!
The battery power supply is a good upgrade to decouple the noise from AC grid. HOWEVER, I would like to know how many of you, who have such a $$$ equipment, use APC RT series UPS (or similar device) to supply their equipment? RT series generate perfect sine wave AC voltage all the time - by performing double conversion which is free of any noise from the grid, while protecting your equipment from transients and even supplies it in case of power outage.
I was just about to buy one but I am disappointed by the remote. I'm pretty sure the price would allow for some decent mechanical metal buttons rather than a dead flesh keypad. On another note, the laser incorporated in the drawer is the way it is done in laptops.
@@dogbreaththe3rd851 I will agree with you there. 20k for a CD player is rediculous. But i still love the Nagra kit for its Build quality, Design & of course its sound reproduction. 😊👍🏻
@@carminedambrosio7 well, it’s been in production for about 15 years so I doubt it. I would’ve liked to have seen a couple of digital inputs though, as in preamp mode you’re restricted to a single-source system. Best would’ve been a USB, optical and an analogue input for a phono stage.
Have you ever seen a jvc 100 disc cd player. It has a single disc unit that goes on the shelf and then a cube shaped thing thats seperate and plays 100. I have it such a neat desgin not as nice as this of course. But i love the design.
@@dogbreaththe3rd851 Have you heard it? Someone bought it, and probably had it for a long time, God bless them for having the money to do it. I heard an an 8k Naim CDX once, it blew my mind and moved my soul, would probably make me happier than having Van Gough on my wall and I don't hear people saying art is too expensive.
I don’t doubt that it is made with quality components, but I’m also confident that nobody will be able to pick it out in a proper blind test against a decent consumer device.
Yep, exactly. Especially since the limiting factor here is not the playback device, but CD quality. I can get the exact same sound quality on my laptop with a decent DAC for a few hundred bucks. The actual CD drive doesn't really matter as even rather cheap drives produce binary perfect digital output. This device makes even less sense when connecting it via digital, as the signal is 100% exactly the same as the one coming from the cheapest CD player with digital output in existence.
The actual CD reading process wouldn't be distinguishable, that's all so perfected by now and has so much error correction it's basically impossible to fuck up. However, the internal DAC and pre-amplifier is likely a *lot* worse than what you could get for that amount of money. For $20k you could get an absolutely stellar standalone DAC and pre-amp and a cheap consumer CD reader and you'd have much, much better quality audio.
@@TheGamerUnknown Exactly. I don't think you'd have to spend even close to 20k on a standalone DAC and preamp for the same quality. It's probably comparable to something you can pick up for less than 1000 dollars. The thing is that those people are only cooking with water, as well.
"it can run on battery power"- well... So could my Sony discman but it did not cost 20k.😂 Also, about the sound... Most of what you get out of a nagra device is either reliability or psychological effects. "Normal" cd players produce waveforms not distinguishable (by oscilloscope or fft analysis) from crazily expensive ones. A medium quality product is enough to get the most out of a well recorded cd.
Top kek, I rip CDs with a cheap USB DVD drive; AccuRip compares them to other submissions, confirming that they're bit-perfect. Then I can play them via my average price DAC. But please, spend 20k on a CD player if it makes you feel better. This is almost as bad as the time I saw someone on a forum saying that audio sounded better when they loaded Windows from a RAM disk instead of from a SSD. Morons.
There is no way a CD player is worth this much. It is purely and simply aimed at the idiots out there with more money than sense. I've used top of the range broadcast CD players on air on both radio and TV stations that cost only a fraction of this ($2,000). The cheap LCD display says everything that needs to be said about what is going on here.
What a narrow-minded comment! Sounds like jealousy too. Like saying: no car is worth the price of a Ferrari; my Toyota brings me perfectly from A to B .... Why not just admire a company that builds beautiful machines like this without any compromises ? You don't have to be an idiot to buy a player like this, being an audiophile should be enough. Mind you, I don't have that kind of money, but hey, it's OK if somebody else buys this. Hi- end audio gear is seldomly used for showing-off. Cars do! Btw: that 'çheap' display is simple and functional and fits perfectly with the design of the rest.
@@paulb.3227 You don't see how jarringly different it is from the entire aesthetic of the front panel? It doesn't match the color. It doesn't match any of the other indicators. It doesn't even match the photos on Nagra's own website. This thing looks like a Rolex with a Swatch crystal protector on it.
@@auggysimcity Philips stopped making the CD Pro 2 Transport in 2013. Audio Research and other companies are all working off stock they purchased at that time and other stock some companies still have.
Yes, I have a Jay’s audio cdt3 mk 2 which uses a Philips cd of pro mechanism which is no longer made. Their cdt2 uses a different Philips mechanism, cd4 I think.
SWISS Precision . i'm sure the built quality is Superb. but wonder if it'll stand the test of times ?, since a lot of people now are gearing more toward streaming music . personally. i would invest my money in streamer, Amp, and DAC than a CD player.
I had one of these. A lovely thing but sounds the same as a cheap CD player. It’s not hard tech to get right, no matter what ‘audiophiles’ will tell you. I just bought it for the design, build quality and user experience. Loved it but moved it on eventually.
There isn't much point anymore aside from nostalgia or just a like for physical media. The CD player is always going to have a worse DAC and pre-amplifier than what you can hook up externally to it. It would always be better to rip the CD and then stream it to streamer hooked up to a good quality standalone DAC and then a good pre-amp. It doesn't offer convenience like a digital copy does, and it doesn't offer quality either.
@@papasnejk87 It's not that simple. CD's generally have 44.1 Khz 16-bit PCM audio. While 40Khz is all that is needed to re-create the original wave-form according to Nyquist-Shannon, actually *doing that* requires an infinite number of mathmatical steps. So, most DACs use oversampling to calculate the points in-between the samples to produce better sound. (NOS dacs exist, but that's a separate discussion) Whether it's from a better quality source (like getting High-res 192khz/24 bit) or from a really good oversampling filter with many TAPs, the audio will sound subjectively better at that higher sample rate with a good chain. Also, an even older format (DSD) is generally considered to sound much better than PCM at the same bit-rate since it more closely mirrors analogue waveforms. It's not as widely adopted though for historical reasons I won't go into here. In conclusion: If you want to get higher quality (24/192 PCM), that's not going to fit well on the limited space of a CD. So it does have its limitations.
So basicaly it's possible to buy a PC with a CD player, for 500$, thay WILL play not a bit less, or a DB lower at any freq. 🤣😂😆🤣. Nice design though 👍 ...Funniest part is that those who CAN afford these toys, have long ago lost the ability to hear this "top sound quality..." ! And an advice to Nagra : make those tiny holes - for stacking tings on top - flush with the top part - use small covers on springs ! - THEN it will be worth the money ☝😃
Компания Nagra выпускает прекрасную аппаратуру: замечательный дизайн, надёжность, супер звук! У меня система построена на компонентах Nagra. Я доволен! 👍👏👏👏
The front loader design with hard-mounted laser assembly in it is totally unnecessary. CD players have tracking built-in ever since. The digital data stream from a CD contains error correction, so even if the tracking were to fail for a bit or so, error correction could kick in and force to read that frame again, if necessary. I have never heard of even the cheapest CD player to bump it's laser / door out of alignment so much that it would influence playback. Because with the digital nature of a CD, this would mean either working or not working, there's no inbetween.
But arent CDs a digital format? As long as it has a digital output as opposed to it's own DAC, I feel like there would be absolutely zero difference between a high end CD player and a low end CD player
Yep. It does have an analog output, though, so there is an integrated DAC, but obviously buying a cheap CD player with digital out plus a decent DAC would give you the exact same sound quality for a fraction of the price. And, as you said, using it without its internal DAC over digital out is the pinnacle of uselessness.
Because I cannot aford something like that beautiful nagra I uprgaded capacitors and opamps to my ayon cd2s. Now have burson opamps and solen teflon and jupiter cooper caps and may be is far from hear as good as that nagra.
@@sensational_cellar8606 sorry sou are deaf of your audio system have not enough resolution. But yes they change the sound. If you cannot hear it, very sorry. May be you brain have not good skills in centran hearing procesing.
@@asilva781 Ooh sounds like I touched a nerve! I’m not deaf and my whole system was Nagra electronics and high-end speakers. I simply woke up from the audiofoolery and saw sense. Stopped trying to hear differences I warned to hear. It’s lovely equipment but you’re not paying for a leap in sound quality.
@@sensational_cellar8606 I you have all nagra system. This narrow down. You have a partíal pheriphereal deafness or the central one. Sorry you cannot hear differences.
@@asilva781 The AES couldn’t reliably here differences between CD and 24/96. Is it only amateur audiophiles who’ve spend serious money who can hear these things? It’s all wishful thinking and the high prices which fool buyers. I was there too, now I’m not. I used to perceive better sound with my high-end equipment but I realised I was kidding myself. I’m happier now
it may sound very nice or as nice as a CD player can sound, but at $20K how does anyone justify that kind of money, i simply love tube amps and a few solid state amps, and i still find it hard to except the cost of many of the coolest solid state amps and tube amps even the ones with point to point wiring and the best sounding tubes, but a $20k cd player!!!!! really, is there gold in it ?
The transport alone on this player costs $1000. Then add the cost of the digital section and the electronics involved, R&D costs and production costs, and it's not difficult. At this level Nagra's production costs alone are likely around $6000 each.
Actually, a cheap $3.00 toy wristwatch gives better time than any purely mechanical clock/watch. You can't beat a quartz crystal short of an atomic clock.. which you can access for free with the use of a GPS receiver.
I think it would be more impressive to play your CDs on the original Sony PlayStation after all you can build a console with all the bells and whistles on it maybe even a speak and spell
I applaud the sales person that can pull $20k from someone for this.
If I had the money, I'd totally get one. I'm all about physical media. There's no substitute.
@@brettcooper3893 Right, but is this actually going to produce a superior audio signal to your speakers than a normal decent quality player? Probably not. The differences would likely need lab gear to even register. That's the nature of digital signals, it doesn't matter how much line noise there is, within reason, as long as the 1's and 0's get there.
@@avi8r66 The problem is... Most of the times the differences do not even register on the instruments. A Good cd player is able to replicate at line level what was written on the disc without adding (making up) or subtracting (losing) anything. I will not dive into why sometimes audiophiles like to lose part of the information or listen to made up informations (I am regarding the contents of the disc as information) because psychological matters and personal taste are not measurable with a device. Those devices are neat feats of engineering, but overpriced.
@@gabrieleorioli1760 Sure there are emotional reasons to buy this, but I would be hard to convince their is a technical reason behind that price tag. Amazing build quality of the case and electronics might justify up to, maybe, $2,000US, but no more. Beyond that it's all branding and uniqueness.
@@avi8r66 not true, Swiss manufacture is very expensive especially in small production quantities like this CD player. Many parts are unique to this item so that costs more too as it lacks economies of scale. I owned this CD player for a couple of years and yes it’s a lovely thing. Doesn’t sound any different from a cheaper one though.
Nagra has always been an iconic audio brand. They have earned this reputation many times over
When the Swiss make something it is usually very high quality and expensive. Some of their pistols are that way. You can pay $2000 to $3000 dollars for a Swiss made 9mm pistol made back in the 70's
@@bertroost1675 I would have preferred you talking about Swiss watches. Guns give me the chills.
The cheap display doesent belong in a unit that goes for 20 grand.
@@bertroost1675 Its the wrong kind of Retro, stupid :-) The kind we had in the 90´s on all sorts of consumer hifi machines from CD-players to Micro wave ovens . A kid born in 2005 might find this retro, and the kids born in the 60´s 70´s and 80´s might remember these kind of display as ugly and cheap, because these displays could be found exactly in every electronic device ever made during this period.There is nothing retro about it. Its just bad,cheap looking like a chinese washing machine you can buy today
@@bertroost1675 Oh...look one person born i the 60´s gives a statement about how much he loves a 20 grand machine with a cheap display ....And he doesent have "a problem" with it.
Thank you sir for your input. Your are bold and courageous . Hat of for you Sir. Your opinion matters so much for all born in the 60´s
Maybe it’s like that for a reason west sound quality. Displays can add distortion.
@@Coneman3 And when properly designed, they can be as noise-free as those flickery meter backlights.
@@bertroost1675 The display in your photo matches the design aesthetic of the unit, because it was custom designed for it. This thing looks like a high school Arduino project, like another commenter said. And if you watch carefully around 30 seconds, and as the camera moves above the unit, it becomes almost unreadable if you are not standing directly in front of it. It's not just an ugly generic display, it's a *cheap* ugly generic display.
If it was in green color I would think it is from WWII
It disappoints me that a Swiss machine at this price point has a cheap off-the-shelf blue HD44780 LCD, when Noritake and Futaba have been making custom multi-color VFDs for companies like Aiwa and Soundesign since the 70s. At the very least they could have matched the color of the meters or controls.
VFDs burn out sooner or later. Using a standard display unit might be an advantage in the long run when it comes to repairability. While I would never ever spend the kind of money that Nagra demands for any of their gear, I appreciate that everything they make is repairable for a very long time.
@@jimboblivesforever Everything burns out sooner or later. The laser has a shorter life expectancy than the display! Not an excuse to use a cheap ugly part IMO. They could have put a full color OLED display on there for less than the cost of that dual-needle meter.
I do agree with futureproofing and repairability but even this sort of cheap display comes in other backlight colors that would have matched the design.
@@stickyfox No doubt. But while it's rather trivial to get replacement lasers for 20 year old gear, good luck finding replacement custom VFDs
@@jimboblivesforever I'm not sure what makes you think a custom VFD is so difficult to replace, or why you'd expect Nagra not to be capable of stocking adequate replacement parts for future repair needs. A VFD is a panel of glass with some phosphor silkscreened onto it, and some grid electrodes spot welded over it. You could make one in your kitchen as a weekend project. And if you absolutely couldn't find one, and Nagra didn't have any spares left, Noritake will make you an engineering sample for a very reasonable price with any design you want in about three weeks.
This whole CD player is custom engineered for performance, except the display, which is a cheap off the shelf part that doesn't even have decent off-angle performance. It's hard to imagine the same people who insisted on putting $400 worth of linear bearings on the drawer would have settled for basically the cheapest available display technology, let alone a display that doesn't even match its backlight color to the rest of the indicators.
@@stickyfox
Who says Nagra will be still around by then?
Nagra almost has a VacuumState look to them, both made in Switzerland and both Uber hi-end. Nagra is slightly more utilitarian/industrial but beautiful and functional at the same time. Totally enjoyed the walkthrough of the Nagra, thanks.
My portable Aiwa player still works fine 19 years later.
I find it's lab/workshop aesthetic very appealing.
It looks like it's out of a Cold War era Russian bomber
I was going to say the lab equipment thing!
Yes, positively antiseptic
It looks to me like some old medical equipment.
20Gs and they give you that display....that's interesting
A display for 20k , that's a hot one. LOL !!!
It is awful looking isn't it? I used one of those in a high school science project!
Its better than a crappy, laggy, crashy android interface that with a bad color lcd with lots of lite bleed, and non responsive touch controls with UI thats outdated 5 years ago.
Beautiful piece that will last several lifetimes
The knowledge you've been royally ripped off.
Lools like a hospital machine!!
i agree, its industrial looking
Looks like a weird cross between some lab gear and a kitchen appliance.
Those big knobs they remind me to a microwave oven
Looks like a lab power supply. If it had a bigger display, I could mistake it for an oscilloscope.
The semi rounded corners are a really smart and handsome case design that popped out at me when I took a look at the entire chassis
That dual needle meter is just the icing on the cake. Still an outrageous price, but also pretty damn sexy for just a CD player ;)
Looks like a prop from the original Star Trek series.
Technology of the 21st century obviously moves in two ways: either TANASHIN which units cost some $20 or NAGRA which units cost some $20k. Sadly, there's nothing left between 20 and 20k. Nobody needs decent but budget-wise Hi-Fi anymore?
You can't get it as one piece of equipment, but you can build a very nice mid-range setup with individual parts. Just buy a CD player with TOSlink out, a decent TOSlink DAC and an amplifier. This will give you very high quality CD playback for a few hundred dollars.
True - the mid-level market (that used to be taken up by Marantz, Trio, NAD, Nakamichi etc) has all but vanished.
@@gayusschwulius8490 TOSLINK is crap though. Not only is it S/PDIF which has horrible time domain performance due to muxing the clocks, it is compounded by the poor quality of consumer optical (plastic lines, LED emitters) resulting in even worse performance.
You'd be better off with I2S or USB, if possible.
@@TheGamerUnknown Any decent modern DAC has an internal clock and buffer anyways, so timing issues really don't matter anymore (they were barely audible, even in the infancy of digital audio, anyways). I agree that S/PDIF is a pretty archaic protocol compared to modern equivalents, but it mostly does its job. VWestLife has made a great video in which he demonstrates how robust it is even under non-ideal circumstances.
@@gayusschwulius8490 This isn't necessarily true. Lots of DACs just use the clock coming from S/PDIF. Buffering is really only done with ASYNC USB.
If you compare the jitter performance between something like a cheap optical implementation and a really nice input implementation (Holo Audio's Titanus USB, Schiit's Unison USB, etc) the difference in measured jitter is pretty staggering.
Whether it's audible is debatable and will depend on the chain. Time domain performance is much more audible to humans than something like harmonic distortion.
That it one beautiful mechanism!
yes , we still buy cd's , they are good , also records. Streaming sucks , you don't own it , internet down , no music......................no money for artists/ they are cheated
*7:08* There are enough unused characters to spell out *_"Reading Table of Contents."_* 🤣👏
"TOC" is a specific term relating to CDs. It does stand for that, but it's always been referred to like the sound a clock makes. Not that you're wrong... I would call this an "excuse." After all, they also spelled out "Switzerland" right next to the Swiss Cross, so why not be consistent?
don’t understand the point of this review - zero mention of how it actually sounds ?!
Sounds like Dhogg Dhoo.
The sound of a sucker being born every minute
It sounds exactly like any other CD player out there, because, digital. And their not mentioning the sound quality is exactly the point. Funny where the demonstrator even mentions that the specifications don't talk about the DAC in use except that it's 24 bits. The sound samples on the CD are 16 bits. You only need something like a 24 bit DAC (or higher) if you are *mixing* audio tracks- Then you render them to 16 bit for distribution. You only buy this to impress other people about what a knob you are. It's just for the status.
My dad used to have a Nagra III and the controls are identical, really nostalgic to see. I was kind of hoping for an audio quality review but I guess it goes without saying…
Not quite, the CDC’s controls are more similar to the Nagra V recorder than the III.
Well?How does it sound?
Gorgeous! 100% my cup of tea, style-wise, quality-wise. I'd rather have this than any obscure "audiophile brand". Unfortunately it's about 20x my budget for a CD player 😭
I think that's awesome and I usually dislike high end hifi for being over blown. It looks like it is home made, in the best possible sense. (Like a person made the whole thing themselves - with care) If I had the money spare, I'd certainly buy one.
It sounds very good
Do they have a portable version with a porta-brace?
Design wise, it reminds me of the old portable reel-to-reel tape recorders of Uher.
I think you mean a baby belling cooker.
I have such hope of finding some Nagra equipment one day at an estate sale or someone who who is clueless to the brand- like some of the naysayers posting comments.
As much as I appreciate the Nagra company, the device is a bit expensive!
I myself own a NAGRA IV-S (analog recorder) and a NAGRA V (digital recorder).
They were also expensive - but they were fantastic devices and we can only congratulate Mr. Kudelski!
You pay 99% for the name and 1% for the hardware.
$8 table costs extra or thrown in?
Try listening to one, look inside. Then you might understand why this is so expensive .
The battery power supply is a good upgrade to decouple the noise from AC grid. HOWEVER, I would like to know how many of you, who have such a $$$ equipment, use APC RT series UPS (or similar device) to supply their equipment? RT series generate perfect sine wave AC voltage all the time - by performing double conversion which is free of any noise from the grid, while protecting your equipment from transients and even supplies it in case of power outage.
I was just about to buy one but I am disappointed by the remote. I'm pretty sure the price would allow for some decent mechanical metal buttons rather than a dead flesh keypad.
On another note, the laser incorporated in the drawer is the way it is done in laptops.
I really like the plastic thing with the teeth on the right side :) looks super high quality.
I Love the Nagra Kit. It's got A great Lineage. Just you need deep pockets for the top of the line Range.
@@dogbreaththe3rd851 I will agree with you there. 20k for a CD player is rediculous. But i still love the Nagra kit for its Build quality, Design & of course its sound reproduction. 😊👍🏻
20k and you ending up with an ugly, cheap display. Is there an Arduino inside as well?
its not a tv
Labor cost is very high in switzerland has this been assemble in some third world country it probably below below 2000 $
How much nagra latest system cost with vinyl and cd player how much have to pay totally sir
Does it support SACD format?
Nope
@@sensational_cellar8606 Maybe they will make an add-on module with the SACD converter for the modest price of $ 10,000 :)
@@carminedambrosio7 well, it’s been in production for about 15 years so I doubt it. I would’ve liked to have seen a couple of digital inputs though, as in preamp mode you’re restricted to a single-source system. Best would’ve been a USB, optical and an analogue input for a phono stage.
Have you ever seen a jvc 100 disc cd player. It has a single disc unit that goes on the shelf and then a cube shaped thing thats seperate and plays 100. I have it such a neat desgin not as nice as this of course. But i love the design.
With probably the same amount of sound quality this is snake oil.
today still some brand making CD laser module..?? or use old stock or something..?
Which DAC is used?
The loading of the cd is long…..for a 20 k player
It’s a joy every time you use it. I miss mine
nice toploader-ish design, yeah no pressure on the hole in the middle, my CDs can last 100 years after all. Liking it. I'll take 3 please!
I bet it sounds amazing, awesome design too.
@@dogbreaththe3rd851 Have you heard it? Someone bought it, and probably had it for a long time, God bless them for having the money to do it. I heard an an 8k Naim CDX once, it blew my mind and moved my soul, would probably make me happier than having Van Gough on my wall and I don't hear people saying art is too expensive.
The CDX is awesome, I want to find a dac that comes close to what it does.
I don’t doubt that it is made with quality components, but I’m also confident that nobody will be able to pick it out in a proper blind test against a decent consumer device.
Yep, exactly. Especially since the limiting factor here is not the playback device, but CD quality. I can get the exact same sound quality on my laptop with a decent DAC for a few hundred bucks. The actual CD drive doesn't really matter as even rather cheap drives produce binary perfect digital output. This device makes even less sense when connecting it via digital, as the signal is 100% exactly the same as the one coming from the cheapest CD player with digital output in existence.
@@gayusschwulius8490 Yup, when you can download the same bits of data as on a disc, why do you need an expensive chassis and transport etc.
The actual CD reading process wouldn't be distinguishable, that's all so perfected by now and has so much error correction it's basically impossible to fuck up.
However, the internal DAC and pre-amplifier is likely a *lot* worse than what you could get for that amount of money. For $20k you could get an absolutely stellar standalone DAC and pre-amp and a cheap consumer CD reader and you'd have much, much better quality audio.
@@TheGamerUnknown Exactly. I don't think you'd have to spend even close to 20k on a standalone DAC and preamp for the same quality. It's probably comparable to something you can pick up for less than 1000 dollars. The thing is that those people are only cooking with water, as well.
Of course not... because it is a digital player... 1 remains 1 and 0 remains 0...
Is this product strictly red book or can it pass high resolution files .
Respectfully I do not intend this to be taken as negative either way.
@@gg.6967 Here's the spec sheet straight from the manufacturer.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION
ELECTRONICS
Compatibility:CD Audio, CD-R, CD-RWD/A converter:24 bits (CDC ad CDP)Oversampling:8x (352.8 KHz)Bandwidth:20 Hz (0dB) to 20 KHz (-1dB)Signal-to-noise ratio:> 108 dB, measured ASA “A” weightedTHD + N:< 0.003 %Channel separation:90 dBJitter:negligible (< 200 ps)
OUTPUTS
Analogue outputs:electronically balanced on XLR (600 Ω) unbalanced on RCA (50 Ω)Output level:1 or 3.5 V RMS selectable (at 0 dBFS)Digital outputs:AES, S/PDIF, Toslink
GENERAL
External supply:12VConsumption:3.8 Kg (6.6 lbs)Power consumption:6W constant, 12W maximumDimensions:27.7 x 254 x 76 mm (12.2 x 10 x 3 inches)Weight:4 kg (8.8 lbs)
Thank You 😊 Satguy 141
@@gg.6967 Or, go to Crutchfield and take a look. They have many comparable units for much less money.
$20,000 to play Compressed red Book CD's on. I'll stick with my £50 player, as both will sound the same.
imagine playing death magnetic on that thing, it will still sound like brickwalled shit^^
@@lucalone It'll break the needles, lol!
"it can run on battery power"- well... So could my Sony discman but it did not cost 20k.😂
Also, about the sound... Most of what you get out of a nagra device is either reliability or psychological effects. "Normal" cd players produce waveforms not distinguishable (by oscilloscope or fft analysis) from crazily expensive ones. A medium quality product is enough to get the most out of a well recorded cd.
@@vdochev it won't break the needles because that metallica death magnetic cd has no dynamics^ the needle would stay on one position the whole time^^
@@lucalone Yeah, I meant they will be pegged so hard to the right. And I didn't mean literally break them, lol.
Top kek, I rip CDs with a cheap USB DVD drive; AccuRip compares them to other submissions, confirming that they're bit-perfect. Then I can play them via my average price DAC. But please, spend 20k on a CD player if it makes you feel better. This is almost as bad as the time I saw someone on a forum saying that audio sounded better when they loaded Windows from a RAM disk instead of from a SSD. Morons.
It could have been some electrical isolation/grounding issue with the motherboard when certain devices are connected.
Awesome gear.
There is no way a CD player is worth this much. It is purely and simply aimed at the idiots out there with more money than sense. I've used top of the range broadcast CD players on air on both radio and TV stations that cost only a fraction of this ($2,000).
The cheap LCD display says everything that needs to be said about what is going on here.
What a narrow-minded comment! Sounds like jealousy too.
Like saying: no car is worth the price of a Ferrari; my Toyota brings me perfectly from A to B ....
Why not just admire a company that builds beautiful machines like this without any compromises ?
You don't have to be an idiot to buy a player like this, being an audiophile should be enough.
Mind you, I don't have that kind of money, but hey, it's OK if somebody else buys this.
Hi- end audio gear is seldomly used for showing-off. Cars do!
Btw: that 'çheap' display is simple and functional and fits perfectly with the design of the rest.
Do you think Ferraris are overpriced?
@@paulb.3227 You don't see how jarringly different it is from the entire aesthetic of the front panel? It doesn't match the color. It doesn't match any of the other indicators. It doesn't even match the photos on Nagra's own website.
This thing looks like a Rolex with a Swatch crystal protector on it.
@@paulb.3227 You're too stupid for words Paul
@@paulb.3227 You are the kind of person that would run you $20K cd player in to some $10 wal-mart speakers.
« Nagra » (it records in Polish)
Stunning would love that combination the user experience is everything 💙👍Is that a vintage set of Magnepan's I see in the background?
Surprised to see a balance control
$1K for the unit+$19K for the name.
Description says "no gimmicks" but the dac section is covered with 24k gold? Come on man
Agreed!
Same transport as high end ARC CD Players CD 7,8, 9 and possible others
They all use the philips pro grade. It’s still in production.
@@auggysimcity Philips stopped making the CD Pro 2 Transport in 2013.
Audio Research and other companies are all working off stock they purchased at that time and other stock some companies still have.
Yes, I have a Jay’s audio cdt3 mk 2 which uses a Philips cd of pro mechanism which is no longer made. Their cdt2 uses a different Philips mechanism, cd4 I think.
My CD player was $8500 new, I think that’s the cutoff point for me. It’s definitely over engineered and sounds great. $20K might be pushing it for me.
There is certainly a point of diminishing return on CD players.
SWISS Precision . i'm sure the built quality is Superb. but wonder if it'll stand the test of times ?, since a lot of people now are gearing more toward streaming music .
personally. i would invest my money in streamer, Amp, and DAC than a CD player.
20K?!?! God does not make ears that good! I use a DVD/CD player that was free, and is plenty good enough for me!
I'm still with my SONY BDP-S300 :)
I had one of these. A lovely thing but sounds the same as a cheap CD player. It’s not hard tech to get right, no matter what ‘audiophiles’ will tell you. I just bought it for the design, build quality and user experience. Loved it but moved it on eventually.
The laser coupling with the drawer is just like my old Magnavox CDP from the late 80's. hehehe. But this player is much, much better looking.
Pioneer was more aggressive in the 90' putting disc upside down (i.e. label down) and placing laser on top! You know, for sound.
@@piwex69 I like buying old CDPs with weird playback styles and unusual features.
"Yes, they are still making cd players nowadays"- Did they disappear from stores or something in the US?
In some places, yes. I still buy CDs.
Fun fact: Every DVD and Bluray drive is also a CD player.
@@MusicEssentials Although, can't both play the superior SACD?
Here is where you can find us ;-) www.nagraaudio.com/contact/high-end/
Wow, this guy sounds so dismissive and disgusted by the concept of owning a CD player.
and still they haven't invented any better audio format since.... (for a human ear)
@@papasnejk87 lossless audio stored on sd card is equivalent or better and more convenient.
@@elpechos for a human ear?
There isn't much point anymore aside from nostalgia or just a like for physical media.
The CD player is always going to have a worse DAC and pre-amplifier than what you can hook up externally to it. It would always be better to rip the CD and then stream it to streamer hooked up to a good quality standalone DAC and then a good pre-amp.
It doesn't offer convenience like a digital copy does, and it doesn't offer quality either.
@@papasnejk87 It's not that simple. CD's generally have 44.1 Khz 16-bit PCM audio. While 40Khz is all that is needed to re-create the original wave-form according to Nyquist-Shannon, actually *doing that* requires an infinite number of mathmatical steps. So, most DACs use oversampling to calculate the points in-between the samples to produce better sound. (NOS dacs exist, but that's a separate discussion)
Whether it's from a better quality source (like getting High-res 192khz/24 bit) or from a really good oversampling filter with many TAPs, the audio will sound subjectively better at that higher sample rate with a good chain.
Also, an even older format (DSD) is generally considered to sound much better than PCM at the same bit-rate since it more closely mirrors analogue waveforms. It's not as widely adopted though for historical reasons I won't go into here.
In conclusion: If you want to get higher quality (24/192 PCM), that's not going to fit well on the limited space of a CD. So it does have its limitations.
So basicaly it's possible to buy a PC with a CD player, for 500$, thay WILL play not a bit less, or a DB lower at any freq. 🤣😂😆🤣. Nice design though 👍 ...Funniest part is that those who CAN afford these toys, have long ago lost the ability to hear this "top sound quality..." !
And an advice to Nagra : make those tiny holes - for stacking tings on top - flush with the top part - use small covers on springs ! - THEN it will be worth the money ☝😃
No one in the history of music has ever written anything worth playing on a 20,000 dollar CD player.
Two words: Justin Bieber
Mozart
Baby belling cooker.
I think it uses a philips cd-pro mechanism
My Jay’s Audio transport uses that drive.
Does it have F35 features ?
.....and , how does it sound ?
Incredible. Wish we could do it justice remotely.
Naim also does / did drive & laser in 1
What year is this?
Modern/Not too long ago!
Not crazy about the design for a cd player.
Is this player just a gimik?....Sound quality?
But what does it sound like?
Precisely ; he has talk about anything but sound quality .
What is the cd-mechanism ?
The actual transport module in the CDP's mono-block tray is a Philips CD-Pro2M
Компания Nagra выпускает прекрасную аппаратуру: замечательный дизайн, надёжность, супер звук!
У меня система построена на компонентах Nagra. Я доволен!
👍👏👏👏
С каким другими брендами можно сравнить Nagra по звуку ?
Imagine you paid 20,000$ for a CD player. As your walking out the door of the store with it. You drop it. 🤣😂🤣😂
Imagine you paid 20,000$ for a CD player.
Imagine you have $20,000.
The front loader design with hard-mounted laser assembly in it is totally unnecessary. CD players have tracking built-in ever since. The digital data stream from a CD contains error correction, so even if the tracking were to fail for a bit or so, error correction could kick in and force to read that frame again, if necessary. I have never heard of even the cheapest CD player to bump it's laser / door out of alignment so much that it would influence playback. Because with the digital nature of a CD, this would mean either working or not working, there's no inbetween.
For 20.000 $ it will be nice to get one Swiss made nice woman with this CD player... Only fools and horses...
20.000 $ for cd player? This is crime.
Apparently you get a CD player in a fancy case.
swiss stands for quality: watches, great audio equipment, black bank accounts ...
a high end kenwood from 1987 would probably sound just as good
yeah but wouldn't be as cool :-)
A much lighter wallet.
A top loader is a better design imo.
But arent CDs a digital format? As long as it has a digital output as opposed to it's own DAC, I feel like there would be absolutely zero difference between a high end CD player and a low end CD player
Yep. It does have an analog output, though, so there is an integrated DAC, but obviously buying a cheap CD player with digital out plus a decent DAC would give you the exact same sound quality for a fraction of the price. And, as you said, using it without its internal DAC over digital out is the pinnacle of uselessness.
You get taken.
My Playstation does SACD better
CECHC03?
Rather spend that on a turntable...
this should cost highest 2 000 and not 20 000 $ !!!
Looks like taken out of the Apollo Space Craft
We agree!
with monster cabels it will even sound better 😅
This is our Rich Idiot System.
To be a million ayre is like a wet dream
Because I cannot aford something like that beautiful nagra I uprgaded capacitors and opamps to my ayon cd2s. Now have burson opamps and solen teflon and jupiter cooper caps and may be is far from hear as good as that nagra.
Caps don’t change the sound
@@sensational_cellar8606 sorry sou are deaf of your audio system have not enough resolution. But yes they change the sound. If you cannot hear it, very sorry. May be you brain have not good skills in centran hearing procesing.
@@asilva781 Ooh sounds like I touched a nerve! I’m not deaf and my whole system was Nagra electronics and high-end speakers. I simply woke up from the audiofoolery and saw sense. Stopped trying to hear differences I warned to hear. It’s lovely equipment but you’re not paying for a leap in sound quality.
@@sensational_cellar8606 I you have all nagra system. This narrow down. You have a partíal pheriphereal deafness or the central one. Sorry you cannot hear differences.
@@asilva781 The AES couldn’t reliably here differences between CD and 24/96. Is it only amateur audiophiles who’ve spend serious money who can hear these things? It’s all wishful thinking and the high prices which fool buyers. I was there too, now I’m not. I used to perceive better sound with my high-end equipment but I realised I was kidding myself. I’m happier now
it may sound very nice or as nice as a CD player can sound, but at $20K how does anyone justify that kind of money, i simply love tube amps and a few solid state amps, and i still find it hard to except the cost of many of the coolest solid state amps and tube amps even the ones with point to point wiring and the best sounding tubes, but a $20k cd player!!!!! really, is there gold in it ?
It's Hollywood money. It's not their money so it's not real money. It's just a number on a paper and it's easily paid.
The transport alone on this player costs $1000.
Then add the cost of the digital section and the electronics involved, R&D costs and production costs, and it's not difficult.
At this level Nagra's production costs alone are likely around $6000 each.
@Lysander Hubbard yes there is gold in there. He said the DAC is encased in 24 karat gold.
@@Allen-ps6bx thats like hiding a light under a bucket, but any chance of any gold in there is hardly believable
The cost of two tires for a Bugatti Veyron.
But wait were still putting a cheap old cd in it right ? Don't we have to make that $1000 for the purest audio quality? 😂
its better than a crappy touch interface that will crash all the time
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 ok not sure what cd player you've been using but thanks for sharing
Like a Swiss (mechanical) watch: nice to own, but not any good/better in the actual task of time keeping
Actually, a cheap $3.00 toy wristwatch gives better time than any purely mechanical clock/watch. You can't beat a quartz crystal short of an atomic clock.. which you can access for free with the use of a GPS receiver.
I think it would be more impressive to play your CDs on the original Sony PlayStation after all you can build a console with all the bells and whistles on it maybe even a speak and spell
Crazy, just crazy to pay that much.