True, but the problem might be that there are only like seven Lei users in the world. People generally do not use this character. That said, no one used Shaheen but he came back anyway - likely for representation purposes.
Tekken 7 always had 50/50 stance mix ups but the main way this happened was if you got hit. You get hit and the punishment was to take the mix up. T8 on the other hand bombards you with 50/50 stance mixups on hit and block as punishment for daring to block. Blocking in this game is against the rules.
@@addydiesel6627yup. Thats what I'm doing. I refuse to get spammed out on t8. It's not about skill anymore and guessing correctly. It's now who can mash the most buttons the fastest. Or who can spam armor(KING PLAYERS)into a super long combo.
It's not just egregious because Heihachi was given stances, it's the fact that Reina's uniqueness from Heihachi was her reliance on stances, and they just brought back Heihachi just to give him stances. What is even the point of these two seperate characters now aside from their very superficial differences?
Less breakdancing. If I were to take you seriously, this comment pivots away from the topic. You’ve never heard anyone say “Heihachi plays too similarly like Kazyua” so I think your main problem is that either you have to pay for that or that it could’ve been filled in by someone else?
I think Heihachi is good and Ur just a hater-. Okay Jokes aside this game is obsessed with making everyone into a 50/50 stance character which feels so unnecessary and boring.
I mean considering they released the story mode on the third DLC, that is making me think the 4th one is gonna be completely unrelated to the story. In other words, a guest character.
Yes!!! Thank you PHilDX!! your final thoughts was the highlight of the video! its very concerning where the future of DLC characters or the direction tekken in general is heading in. Players dont want more constant stance 5050 gameplay, it waters the game down and iconic characters start to loss their identity. yea it looks cool and flashy to appeal the viewers and all but not really fun for the players, and I feel players are becoming more like guinea pigs for developers to promote their games.... until people become more aware! paid to win DLC will continue to keep on ramping up...
I think the issues with stances have less to do with adding them and more to do with them all being the same thing. Fast high, unsafe mid launcher, low, and tracking option.
Harada said Heihachi is ”completely dead” because they wanted us to lose it when he is revealed, which we did.. it’s normal Harada behavior. I was only smiling when he said that because i knew Heihachi is way too popular to stay ”video game dead”
I mean, if you played the entire Tekken series, you would know this isn't the first time he supposedly "died" and came back. This guy got dropped off the same cliff multiple times, blasted through a temple wall into the abyss, nuked by multiple Jack copies and took backshots from Kazumi. Of course he's coming back.
Almost positive the SC6 devs moved over to work on this game after that franchise shut down again... and it shows with so many of these asscheeks mechanics just like SC6 started out
It's a shame they turned every character into a 50/50 mix character. One of the reasons I enjoyed playing so many characters in T8 were the fact they made me learn how to play in a different way. I just hope he will be fun to play the way I wanna play. But definitely you will need to go unga bunga if you want to win.
Heihachis best low was pretty much his generic d+4 all the way up untill they buffed his hellsweep in season 4. D+4's being -15 across the board now is pretty rough, I can't imagine that hellsweep is going to remain tracking and +8 in Tekken 8.
As much as I dislike Heihachi’s multiple stance transitions, guard-breaking moves, install, and frame-perfect charge moves, I feel it’s okay if it’s only him. With Heihachi billed as the ‘Resurrected King of Iron Fist,’ they seem to want him to be the ultimate Tekken 8 character. The real problem would be if they started giving these Swiss Army-style stance cancels to every character.
Hey PhiDX I don't think you're a shill. My take on your patch review is you focused primarily on the positives and didn't have much to say on the potential negatives - e.g. I'm not into sneakers, but my sister likes them, _moves on_ . Meanwhile Framewhisper is on the opposite end focusing entirely on negativity. For me Aris does the best job at giving a balanced prospective and being vocal about both the stuff he likes/hates. Though, I do expect some level of bias from you because of past events like Tekken X Chipotle. Being positive about Tekken is in your best interests to be invited to more events and/or get a career as a Tekken caster or PR person. And while I think you genuinely care about the game - there will be viewers who don't like Tekken right now and just assume you are positive for the reasons I put above.
I don't really agree with that "being positive to be invited" thing because being happy and positive is just a healthy mindset and not everyone is depressed and miserable but hides it for money or pushing an agenda. You're kinda implying that he's a shill but you understand why so that's ok. I think he's positive about Tekken because Tekken 8 is pushing good updates and is overall a pretty good game.
Finally SOMEONE saying it. I can’t stand Frame’s videos anymore and Aris has boneheaded takes sometimes because who the heck doesn’t? We shouldn’t treat him as if he knows what’s best for the game at all times, he isn’t a Tekken prophet lol
I was super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because in T7 he seemed like Mr. Tekken: direct, no fancy mechanics, no heavy reliance on stances. Now I am super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because he is Mr. Tekken 8. Look at all these new mechanics, and powerful stances, and he is still quite direct! Neat! Also, wonderful video! Didn't have time for the full Dev breakdown, so this was an excellent alternative.
There's a video of the full hei move list and we learn that he's even more broken than you might think bcs : - Chrome dome (f1+2) is still a i12 high but leaves the opponent -14 crouching so he can either do b1,4 (i14 mid,mid 36 dmg +7 knockdown in front of you) or df4,2 (i13 mid,mid 33dmg wallsplat) but he can also funnily enough just launch you with twin piston in warrior's instinct (12f launcher lol) - He has a i15 string like Lydia's political storm which does 44 damage so f4 on crouching opponents will do way more dmg than regular df1,2. It also has a blue spark version but we don't see it. - b4 is a CH launcher - b3 is a i14 tracking high with both high and mid extension which are natural combos (the mid extension gives a oki) - You didn't mention it but all his just release moves heals him even on block - 1,1,2 does 31 dmg in War Instinct... So overall his defensive options will also be insane (I'm still not sure but if f4 on crouching opponent is +15, and he can transition into stance, can't he just launch you with the mid electric without warrior instinct)
@@Kennyn not likely when you can get a free OTGF from stance. letting it launch again for 70% of your hp is gonna be beyond broken when anyone can do it
@@omarismail2252 I know. I would prefer they reward execution, instead of giving easy mode electrics/omens from stance. However, it doesn’t seem like that’s the direction they want to go.
You make excellent content and you’re very thoughtful let mongoloids opinions in one ear and out the other. Also love long form videos feels like an episode or podcast addition that I can sit with.
I just hope he retains his playstyle with this shift towards stances, as there is no character in T8 that fits it and he was my main in T7. Heihachi in T7 is an offensive defensive character where you limit your opponents options and you want them to press into you. He had his hit confirmable 10f string, and a 10f counter hit string, coupled with a lot of moves that left him -2 or better, limiting his opponent to use faster than 13f moves or risk getting hit. Most fast moves are either linear or have limited reach so you now use movement to punish, giving better reward than the 10f strings i.e. Heihachi is a character that uses offense to limit the opponents options in hopes they press into you so that you can whiff punish. His weakness is that he doesn’t have mixups. All of his lows in T7 was bad, one reactable and launch punishble, the other does the damage of a jab, leaves +5, but is stagger on block. In T7 throws were weaker too so they weren’t a viable mixup option. This means that his strong offense doesn’t net him any reward, unless he is able to bait a response from the opponent, and counteract accordingly. Conclusion is an aggressive character that doesn’t get much damage unless the opponent responds, and baits this responds by doing moves that leaves them slightly minus on block, or moves that are plus on block, but overextends.
From the sounds of it, he's gotten the T8 Jin treatment; weaknesses lessened, some key tools nerfed but a lot of new tools that outperform the nerfs and a plethora of accessibility features - not to mention he has insane stances. I'm very skeptical tbh. He seems about as T7 Heihachi as Jin seems like T7 Jin. Which is a huge downgrade imho. Flaws breed creativity and give personality.
Your description sounds exactliky like Lee in tekken 8. A lot of his key moves is like -1 on block (ie. his df1) and he can use turnstealing moves such as ff4(if they jab) or 4,3,4 (if they use 13f mids) etc. He makes the opponent scared to press into him through these defense turnstealing moves.
PhiDx what do you mean "no lows" why do we have to go through the same T7 cycle? He has SOLID lows, compared to his mids and new guard break... this is T8 you do not need only lows to win. High guard breaks are your new lows...
2:20 actually online is the only way you can play on this stage if you're not buying dlc, in t7 I didn't own half of dlc stages but still played on them in ranked cause my opponents owned them
Fighting games are weird bc when they introduce new characters the player doesn’t just get to play as them, they have to fight them as well. So if they’re too strong or annoying to fight against players get upset, but if they’re boring or weak, players still get upset.
While im trying as best as i can to stay positive i must say T8 makes it really difficult for me. T6 was my first FG and i put thousands of hours into T7 with the goal to compete in T8. Almost Everything that i learned is now questionable because of the current characterdesign. Defense has always been weak in Tekken but now its even more exhausting, stressful and the most important point: its boring. Everyone is just waiting for their turn and only one defensive mistake and you either lose the round or are forced to guess again. Its really frightening to think about his “install”. Imagine being oppressed, 50/50 forced and punished for guessing just to “automatically” lose in the 3rd round. I think im done. I will wait for how things will work out and if its another Akuma shit im gonna quit this game
Man, since having a kid I no longer have the time or space to play this game, and the devs’ design philosophy and direction is making me not miss it at all. Their urge to give everyone stances with canned 50/50’s and alleviated execution is mind-boggling. I loved playing Heihachi in T7. I’ll cherish the memories of throwing electrics that were “mine” and not pre-microwaved in a “Fujin step,” of getting my only-decent hellsweep blocked and punished, and of landing the occasional omen and popping off. Thanks for the good times.
37:45 I agree! I think when everyone has all the tools in the toolbox it will be more difficult to build a unique toolbox or in this case character. I think they will have to take away stuff because they can't keep adding stuff all the time.
Based on Daddyking's Video and his talk about Heihachi's movelist, he mentions in Korean that Heihachi's b4 is a knockdown/wallsplat on Normal Hit and also a launcher on CH It's not a homing move anymore sure but I don't think it's worse than the T7 b4 given all these other features th-cam.com/video/z5z60mP0GZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z4O3AMcQuf8LMJhN&t=439 Edit: As more Heihachi came out, Brawlpro's video shows that new b4 on whiff looks absolutely terrible th-cam.com/video/3p3kogfGl_Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8JW78r1fHtslRTj_&t=637
@orugnet it spent the tailspin in T7. In T8 you can still tornado after the crumple. So the only thing I lost is the homing but the range looks way better with higher combo/damage potential
Hey man, thanks for the video. I don't have a whole lot of time to watch these sorts of things, so I'm really appreciative of the channels like yours that'll actually take the time. The people calling you A shell. Don't read the comments. Everything on the internet now is just legitimately rage bait.
37:40 I personally think in order to "top" Heihachi they should try leaning into design and combat style instead of additional install and and stances. One example I've always liked in in DNF Duel there is a gunslinger character who is not a zoner (I think) so his fists become the muzzle flash of the gun. Something like that for instance where character style is what makes us want to buy them instead of installs. Plus more does not always mean better, Kazuya is a perfect example of this, it is fine to keep it simple.
I'm new to Tekken, this instalment has been awesome to play and I'm really having fun learning the characters. Heihachi kinda feels a lot like Lidia and Reina put together into one character, and as far as DLC goes I would've expected a bit more creativity. I love his presentation, he looks badass as hell, but his moveset looks kinda samey.
Perfect electric is just a short input for an electric. A true perfect electric is when the inputs match the speed of the move. In a true perfect electric, the neutral is must only be 1 frame long.
I'm currently having a really hard time evaluating him tbh, some of the stance stuff looked really good but they never really go into counterplay or using it in an actual match in the livestream, it looks similar to dealing with Reina's stances so that could be quite good, or he could be like Lidia who turned out to be worse than she seemed like she could be, And there's no real precedent for a once per match mechanic in Tekken before, closest thing would be Leroy's staff but thats different in almost every other way, will probably end up spending the entire day messing around with him when he comes out
Relax. It's a Kings welcome treatment, starting him as OP as tribute to Tekken 30th Anniversary. They don't want him to start as garbage , he started the Iron Fist Tournament. Devil Jin will get nerfed again based on content creators reactions to Heihachi's moveset 😂
@@dacatindahat8275 literally none of the dlc characters have been op, so far both lidia and eddy are just casino and dont have anything else going on which is the reason why they are regularly considered to be towards the bottom of the roster. they have nothing except constant casino, you make one right guess and they are dead but yes keep spouting nonsense because you wont learn the match up.
@wyzin5865 buddy I've been playing this game for 30 years. I know the match ups. Half the cast has unmanageable 50/50s or useful heat. The others are just stuck playing tekken 7. Please tell me how I know nothing about a game I've been paying more than likely longer than you've been breathing.
@@dacatindahat8275 you did not address what i said at all you just wanted to flaunt your sense of superiority because of how long youve been playing if youre an adult act like it and dont throw a tantrum when someone calls you out. You said they make all dlc op trash, neither of the dlc characters we have in tekken 8 are op they are actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the cast so please explain, or are you just gonna throw another tantrum?
Getting called a shill for being excited about the state of the game is such a Tekken experience lmao. I was skeptical at first but I'm pretty excited for Heihachi. If any Mishima was ever going to be absolutely filthy in T8, it would be the hyper aggressive grandad. I just hope its balanced, we dont need another Dragunov meta situation. Also, Heihachi saying "Ashii" late sucks. The concept of him being so arrogant and powerful that he actively directs you towards his attacks, and that have mechnanical relevance was amazing. Edit,: Stances, decent lows, no execution electric and an FC 15f launcher that negates his need for electric execution on crouch... He's gotten the Jin treatment of patching his weaknesses without notable nerfs thanks to new moves/properties outweighing any nerfs to prior core tools. Genuinely sad to see as it homogenises the character imho. Flaws breed creativity and T8 is adverse to flaws it seems. Boo hiss. 2nd edit: Bruh it just keeps getting worse. Like he sounds amazing to pilot and is as strong as you'd expect in lore, but he seems so unjustifiably obnoxious to VS on paper.
I mained Hei for the entirety of T7 and was really hoping he could represent a style closer to classic Tekken, considering how iconic he is as an old Tekken character - so seeing all the new stuff is definitely a little disappointing in that way. I'm sure I'll still enjoy playing him, but the way his new design is so heavily centered around these (seemingly obviously overtuned?) stances, makes me feel like they'll just nerf it all after a while, and I'll just have to figure out a way to make him work after that.
It doesn’t make sense for the other Mishimas to have a PEWGF other than Kazuya. They keep ruining these unique aspects of a character. More stances now too, pretty lame tbh
I doubt it'll be the winter dlc release but I think an angle they can go is adding a devil Reina character with another free story update. Seems like that's the way the story is going
Dude, seriously I just love your positivity take, truly agree with you on the way you are doing your reviews, we already have lots of people talking bad bout the game, lets talk about the good stuff, and its not like you r not talking about the bad stuff either, you just aren't destroying the game like those people want, its just nuts calling you shill.
In a week I will have a close 2-2 round game vs Heihachi. As the fifth round starts I might as well put my hands up since they are are just going heat and Ultimate style and beat me is 20 secs no matter what I do.
I will say, people complaining about stance characters being common is weird because none of the stances are the same really. You can only add so much to a character without stances, you'd have to start removing stuff at some point, and so adding stances is the clear natural progression of their movesets, its either that, remove moves, or the character never changes across games besides how good the model is. A more specific complaint I've seen is that the dlc are all "stance rushdown 50/50s" and I'm gonna be real, if you think this, you have not played against or as Eddy and Lidia enough. Yes both have stances, but thats about it, Eddy is a stance rushdown character but I'm not sure if 50/50 is accurate, its not really a guessing game against him, theres options. Lidia is even worse in this aspect, her best way to enter stance is ff2, you can jab to beat every option but 1. All of her other stances are completely reactable, the only 50/50 is Heaven and Earth 1+2 or 2. Because of this lack of 50/50s and fake pressure, she's actually best played defensively, and not as a rushdown, or at least if not defensively, just not like a psycho like with Nina and Alissa. So overall I think a lot of the dlc complaints are sort of built off an incorrect assumption, because even if we say Eddy is a stance rushdown 50/50 machine (one of the worst characters despite this), Lidia absolutely isn't, meaning they arent "homogenizing the roster" like some people try to pretend like they are
Love you phi. it’s so sad that tekken player are never happy even when developers listen to them If we even want to criticize we also need to appreciate for the good things they do
The 4th DLC character will be a guest character. That's what'll reset the install theme so that Tekken Project can focus on new or no mechanics for the season 2 DLC.
Watching two ppl move around a screen for 20 seconds to get one combo out is boring from a casual's perspective, makes since why they'd go more aggressive. Ppl want to see a trading of blows, and it makes the games more intense imo. Great vid Phi I'm may pick him up now.
I find his stances are too similar to Lidia's. That being said, I don't feel like his stances add much of anything. I am really disappointed with what they did to him in regards to stances. The rest looks cool and fun though, and I am excited to see how his install plays out.
I think that there is no need to take negative feedback personally much, mostly. Comments' in terms of their attitude not really affect the channel performance, while their amount does. The content itself is great, notepad thing makes your channel the best. Paid or not does not mean anything, and what happens in comments is what you usually saying at the end of video - "Let me know, what you think". What exactly they or specific person, like me, thinking, is a thought, no more. I'm sure that there is other much more representative channel metrics exist, that say "everything is cool"
Honestly the issue isn’t that he’s so strong from what we can see it, it’s just that we also have characters like devil Jin in this game. The balancing just isn’t the best at the moment, no character is truly bad but there’s such a large gap between the top characters and the rest of the cast
There's many other kinds of 'resource' mechanics they could add that aren't these install mechanics, though I don't know if tekken players want that kind of full shenanigan. Even still, I don't think that kind of thing is very important to sales, I think what matters is that people feel like a character has identity and does cool powerful stuff. This is why something like labcoat 21 released deliberately OP in the way that heihachi seems to be for tekken, to feel powerful. For eddy and lidia I think they still had great identity, probably because eddy is a legacy character that plays in a unique way and lidia just wasn't eddy. Hei really is a shift in this way, and a point to mark where the devs might go off the deep end and forget to make characters that have gameplay identities The trick, though, is that this won't affect Heihachi's DLC numbers, it'll *maybe* affect DLC 4, but it will definitely affect season 2 if DLC 4 follows the trend. They have to understand that now if they want to stop the DLC sales from tanking imo. (reason being is that most people aren't going to make wide judgements about a character from a trailer, so the majority of people will still buy the characters until they try them out and see "wow, actually, this is kind of samey and boring" and then stop buying DLC. I know it doesn't feel like that since the dedicated tekken community makes wildly committal judgements about a character from even like, 30 seconds of footage, but the majority of the audience is most likely the polar opposite.)
Good luck, Phi. The unhappy ones in madge land will crucify you for illegally enjoying positive things in a game with many negatives. They cannot comprehend your quest to "have fun" and "play a game you enjoy". Hope you didn't skip leg day as you wave dash to the next patch drop. o7
Man I though they were gonna fuck legacy hei with the stances but I think they made a pretty good job integrating t8 stance mixup rushdown❤Great recap, I loved the intro😂😂
So Heihachi is still the Heihachi we’ve known with some new stances, but he gets a once-per-round install that negates the majority of his weaknesses 💀
I really dislike that in modern internet culture, if you talk positively about something you’re a shill and if you talk negatively about something you’re a hater or something of the sort. Hyped for hei I hope he still plays a bit like legacy heihachi with some new stance pressure.
Warrior instinct buff seems like it was developed to just give Heihachi the round you decide to use it in. The only issue I have with stances(outside of forcing players to lab anti-tech) are when they allow the character that's using them to be evasive during the transition into stance. Attacks in general that have built-in defense are cancerous. Let players commit to their options, and the potential consequences of said options.
Brother, don't listen to people saying stuff like "shill". I see it on all my favorite successful creators. If there isn't a complex or meaningful criticism, just scroll past it. Your content is detailed, thoughtful, and consistent; and I really appreciate the work you put in. Also, can we note that the T7 clip is the reason why the Tekken team went in a new direction.
I think it’s great that the barriers are breaking down, but man tekken players have really been on their own island in the fgc for 30 years lol. Regarding otg and install.
![ค้างคืนโรงเก็บกระสวยอวกาศร้างกลางทะเลทราย [Around The World Ep. 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5bWZQhABJE/mqdefault.jpg)
Funny how the game is becoming more and more stance heavy, but Lei Wulong is nowhere in sight
I hope Lei never comes back.
Or is he? 👀
Last time people begged for years for Lei, Harada gave it and nobody played him. lol
True, but the problem might be that there are only like seven Lei users in the world. People generally do not use this character. That said, no one used Shaheen but he came back anyway - likely for representation purposes.
I would play Lei. I really want him lol
i cant wait to only fight hei for a month straight
We've been fighting drags since release. I'm fucking tired of it.
@@noobslayer1196well it will be heihachi soon LMFAO
@@noobslayer1196they need to nerf the bastard they already made him easy enough
@@Scapne no. It will not. Lmao. Drag will body Hei.
@@Scapne it looks equally as balanced as kazuya. You don't get good lows but you're basically a pit bull bully with devastating mids.
What if instead of Heihachi he was freakhachi and did the electric wind ass eat.
Bro ❤
Heihachi FREAKshima
you sound 12
@Ab-ks5ui ok Diddy I know you want to imagine a 12 year old talking about eating ass but keep me out of your pedophilic role play
Not funny nice try tho
Tekken 7 always had 50/50 stance mix ups but the main way this happened was if you got hit. You get hit and the punishment was to take the mix up. T8 on the other hand bombards you with 50/50 stance mixups on hit and block as punishment for daring to block. Blocking in this game is against the rules.
-Nice 👌- I mean; horrible
Tekken h8. I will just keep playing t7 and resident evil for now 😅
@@addydiesel6627yup. Thats what I'm doing. I refuse to get spammed out on t8. It's not about skill anymore and guessing correctly. It's now who can mash the most buttons the fastest. Or who can spam armor(KING PLAYERS)into a super long combo.
It's not just egregious because Heihachi was given stances, it's the fact that Reina's uniqueness from Heihachi was her reliance on stances, and they just brought back Heihachi just to give him stances. What is even the point of these two seperate characters now aside from their very superficial differences?
I 100% agree with you, but it's actually sepArate, not sepErate
I think that's way too general to call them superficial differences. You could boil everyone down that way. They are quite different i'd say.
Less breakdancing. If I were to take you seriously, this comment pivots away from the topic. You’ve never heard anyone say “Heihachi plays too similarly like Kazyua” so I think your main problem is that either you have to pay for that or that it could’ve been filled in by someone else?
@@Iwatoda_Dorm
They explicitly said Reina because she is a new character, unlike Heihachi and Kazuya who have been around for 30 years.
It prevented her from being able to stand on her own as a character
I think the Tekken community are top tier in the fgc at scaring people into not wanting to play their game
Street fighter better
@yungslack7311 no one asked
Good you should be playing sf6. Tekken 8 is a mess
@@pledgedsun0752 or... hear me out. We play the game we like and prefer
@@cnqrknightyt9892 this hurt me but you right
I think Heihachi is good and Ur just a hater-.
Okay Jokes aside this game is obsessed with making everyone into a 50/50 stance character which feels so unnecessary and boring.
He is kind of the original though, it makes sense for him to be like this.
I was just saying this, like all 3 dlc are stance based mixup characters, which I understand for Lidia, but Heihachi?
@@jonteguy not really since kazuya was first
There is nothing wrong with stances.
@@GrownManPat you don't get it
i was expecting you to say "in response to that, fuck you" lol. that would've been sick
My aris arc is a few years away
Devil Jin turning to Bamco like "You got anymore of them perfect electrics? Feeling left out, here."
You got eyebeams and can fly stop begging
@@yungslack7311ok that’s all gimmicks and if you fall for it then you are just trash
ws3 ch is perfect electric territory
@@VerkoAviarhidea they are talking about 13f electric
@@yungslack7311 Not a DvJ player mate, stop being so weirdly hostile
Making a call now, final DLC character is Ogre.
🙏🏾
I mean considering they released the story mode on the third DLC, that is making me think the 4th one is gonna be completely unrelated to the story. In other words, a guest character.
I know it isn't worth much, but Harada said no guest on season 1 @@ChizeSOI
@@lucastonoli3256Lol, yeah, considering he said Hei was “completely dead”
@@lucastonoli3256the same guy said that Heihachi Mishima is completely dead
Yes!!! Thank you PHilDX!! your final thoughts was the highlight of the video! its very concerning where the future of DLC characters or the direction tekken in general is heading in. Players dont want more constant stance 5050 gameplay, it waters the game down and iconic characters start to loss their identity. yea it looks cool and flashy to appeal the viewers and all but not really fun for the players, and I feel players are becoming more like guinea pigs for developers to promote their games.... until people become more aware! paid to win DLC will continue to keep on ramping up...
23:12 unfortunately, that is still gonna parry kicks at least according to the gameplay video with Kazuya where he parries Kazuya's ws3 at 1:10.
I think the issues with stances have less to do with adding them and more to do with them all being the same thing. Fast high, unsafe mid launcher, low, and tracking option.
Tekken team is creatively bankrupt
Unbeatable throw into Stance guard break is crazy work
Harada said Heihachi is ”completely dead” because they wanted us to lose it when he is revealed, which we did.. it’s normal Harada behavior.
I was only smiling when he said that because i knew Heihachi is way too popular to stay ”video game dead”
Technically not a lie, dead but resurrected
No, he said "compuriteri ded"
@@NicoSleepyLeencompletely dad
@@NicoSleepyLeenwas he? is what we saw in the story mode clips not entirely true?
I mean, if you played the entire Tekken series, you would know this isn't the first time he supposedly "died" and came back. This guy got dropped off the same cliff multiple times, blasted through a temple wall into the abyss, nuked by multiple Jack copies and took backshots from Kazumi.
Of course he's coming back.
"You really want Heihachi back huh? Well I'll make you wish he stayed dead." Harada probably.
I really appreciate how indepth this breakdown is because I heard about Heihachi install but had no clue exactly what was different.
why are they so obsessed with turning every dlc character into a stance party game 50/50 machine tho. i thought this was tekken and not SC6
Bro you don't gotta punch down on SC like that 😭
@@ThiefofCrystals Launch SC6 was a RPS simulator
Almost positive the SC6 devs moved over to work on this game after that franchise shut down again... and it shows with so many of these asscheeks mechanics just like SC6 started out
@@agni2051 Yeah that's true, we don't like to talk about Reversal Edge
Soul calibur 6 is actually a good game with cool DLC designs like Haohmaru and Cassandra
The 1+2 into ff2 was a thing he had back in t5. Back then he could do half health from a 10f punish
It's a shame they turned every character into a 50/50 mix character. One of the reasons I enjoyed playing so many characters in T8 were the fact they made me learn how to play in a different way.
I just hope he will be fun to play the way I wanna play. But definitely you will need to go unga bunga if you want to win.
Thanks for the deep dive on Heihachi's new moveset and stances. Your analysis and expertise are sincerely appreciated!
Heihachis best low was pretty much his generic d+4 all the way up untill they buffed his hellsweep in season 4. D+4's being -15 across the board now is pretty rough, I can't imagine that hellsweep is going to remain tracking and +8 in Tekken 8.
As much as I dislike Heihachi’s multiple stance transitions, guard-breaking moves, install, and frame-perfect charge moves, I feel it’s okay if it’s only him. With Heihachi billed as the ‘Resurrected King of Iron Fist,’ they seem to want him to be the ultimate Tekken 8 character.
The real problem would be if they started giving these Swiss Army-style stance cancels to every character.
Half the cast have stances for Unga bungalow high 50/50 mix into a free follow up after a knockdown
Hey PhiDX
I don't think you're a shill.
My take on your patch review is you focused primarily on the positives and didn't have much to say on the potential negatives - e.g. I'm not into sneakers, but my sister likes them, _moves on_ .
Meanwhile Framewhisper is on the opposite end focusing entirely on negativity.
For me Aris does the best job at giving a balanced prospective and being vocal about both the stuff he likes/hates.
Though, I do expect some level of bias from you because of past events like Tekken X Chipotle.
Being positive about Tekken is in your best interests to be invited to more events and/or get a career as a Tekken caster or PR person.
And while I think you genuinely care about the game - there will be viewers who don't like Tekken right now and just assume you are positive for the reasons I put above.
Aris hates everything though. As far as I know the only thing he's said he likes about Tekken 8 is Yoshi lol
@@joshbell123eeiioooooooo
I love Aris but he should never be taken that serious. Hes hypocritical, inconsistent and has goofy biases.
I don't really agree with that "being positive to be invited" thing because being happy and positive is just a healthy mindset and not everyone is depressed and miserable but hides it for money or pushing an agenda. You're kinda implying that he's a shill but you understand why so that's ok. I think he's positive about Tekken because Tekken 8 is pushing good updates and is overall a pretty good game.
Finally SOMEONE saying it. I can’t stand Frame’s videos anymore and Aris has boneheaded takes sometimes because who the heck doesn’t? We shouldn’t treat him as if he knows what’s best for the game at all times, he isn’t a Tekken prophet lol
I was super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because in T7 he seemed like Mr. Tekken: direct, no fancy mechanics, no heavy reliance on stances.
Now I am super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because he is Mr. Tekken 8. Look at all these new mechanics, and powerful stances, and he is still quite direct!
Neat!
Also, wonderful video! Didn't have time for the full Dev breakdown, so this was an excellent alternative.
my stomach hurts when i see all this.
going back to Tekken 6, i noticed how much more fun and straightforward the game used to be.
kind of sad.
There's a video of the full hei move list and we learn that he's even more broken than you might think bcs :
- Chrome dome (f1+2) is still a i12 high but leaves the opponent -14 crouching so he can either do b1,4 (i14 mid,mid 36 dmg +7 knockdown in front of you) or df4,2 (i13 mid,mid 33dmg wallsplat) but he can also funnily enough just launch you with twin piston in warrior's instinct (12f launcher lol)
- He has a i15 string like Lydia's political storm which does 44 damage so f4 on crouching opponents will do way more dmg than regular df1,2. It also has a blue spark version but we don't see it.
- b4 is a CH launcher
- b3 is a i14 tracking high with both high and mid extension which are natural combos (the mid extension gives a oki)
- You didn't mention it but all his just release moves heals him even on block
- 1,1,2 does 31 dmg in War Instinct...
So overall his defensive options will also be insane
(I'm still not sure but if f4 on crouching opponent is +15, and he can transition into stance, can't he just launch you with the mid electric without warrior instinct)
My main is looking VERY STRONG! I can’t wait to play.
Edit: RIP OTGF combos. You will be missed 😢
It's my main don't touch him
They'll probably bring it back in the future. Remember otgf launch wasn't even a thing in vanilla t7
@@stealthexecutor563 That’s what I’m hoping
@@Kennyn not likely when you can get a free OTGF from stance. letting it launch again for 70% of your hp is gonna be beyond broken when anyone can do it
@@omarismail2252 I know. I would prefer they reward execution, instead of giving easy mode electrics/omens from stance. However, it doesn’t seem like that’s the direction they want to go.
You make excellent content and you’re very thoughtful let mongoloids opinions in one ear and out the other. Also love long form videos feels like an episode or podcast addition that I can sit with.
Can’t wait for Ganryu to be the last season 1 character. Mark my words he will reworked to be an Armor/Grappling/stance character
I just hope he retains his playstyle with this shift towards stances, as there is no character in T8 that fits it and he was my main in T7.
Heihachi in T7 is an offensive defensive character where you limit your opponents options and you want them to press into you.
He had his hit confirmable 10f string, and a 10f counter hit string, coupled with a lot of moves that left him -2 or better, limiting his opponent to use faster than 13f moves or risk getting hit.
Most fast moves are either linear or have limited reach so you now use movement to punish, giving better reward than the 10f strings i.e. Heihachi is a character that uses offense to limit the opponents options in hopes they press into you so that you can whiff punish.
His weakness is that he doesn’t have mixups.
All of his lows in T7 was bad, one reactable and launch punishble, the other does the damage of a jab, leaves +5, but is stagger on block.
In T7 throws were weaker too so they weren’t a viable mixup option.
This means that his strong offense doesn’t net him any reward, unless he is able to bait a response from the opponent, and counteract accordingly.
Conclusion is an aggressive character that doesn’t get much damage unless the opponent responds, and baits this responds by doing moves that leaves them slightly minus on block, or moves that are plus on block, but overextends.
Plus he needs execution for high damage
his df1 is -5 on block now
From the sounds of it, he's gotten the T8 Jin treatment; weaknesses lessened, some key tools nerfed but a lot of new tools that outperform the nerfs and a plethora of accessibility features - not to mention he has insane stances.
I'm very skeptical tbh. He seems about as T7 Heihachi as Jin seems like T7 Jin. Which is a huge downgrade imho. Flaws breed creativity and give personality.
Your description sounds exactliky like Lee in tekken 8. A lot of his key moves is like -1 on block (ie. his df1) and he can use turnstealing moves such as ff4(if they jab) or 4,3,4 (if they use 13f mids) etc. He makes the opponent scared to press into him through these defense turnstealing moves.
I don’t think db2 is reactable. The starting animation is very similar to b2.
PhiDx what do you mean "no lows" why do we have to go through the same T7 cycle? He has SOLID lows, compared to his mids and new guard break... this is T8 you do not need only lows to win. High guard breaks are your new lows...
22 minutes in and this guy already sounds like a boss character
2:20 actually online is the only way you can play on this stage if you're not buying dlc, in t7 I didn't own half of dlc stages but still played on them in ranked cause my opponents owned them
Same
I gotta come back when the quality finishes uploading, but here’s some engagement to help with the channel. Cheers, Phi!
Fighting games are weird bc when they introduce new characters the player doesn’t just get to play as them, they have to fight them as well. So if they’re too strong or annoying to fight against players get upset, but if they’re boring or weak, players still get upset.
While im trying as best as i can to stay positive i must say T8 makes it really difficult for me. T6 was my first FG and i put thousands of hours into T7 with the goal to compete in T8. Almost Everything that i learned is now questionable because of the current characterdesign. Defense has always been weak in Tekken but now its even more exhausting, stressful and the most important point: its boring. Everyone is just waiting for their turn and only one defensive mistake and you either lose the round or are forced to guess again. Its really frightening to think about his “install”. Imagine being oppressed, 50/50 forced and punished for guessing just to “automatically” lose in the 3rd round. I think im done. I will wait for how things will work out and if its another Akuma shit im gonna quit this game
Man, since having a kid I no longer have the time or space to play this game, and the devs’ design philosophy and direction is making me not miss it at all. Their urge to give everyone stances with canned 50/50’s and alleviated execution is mind-boggling.
I loved playing Heihachi in T7. I’ll cherish the memories of throwing electrics that were “mine” and not pre-microwaved in a “Fujin step,” of getting my only-decent hellsweep blocked and punished, and of landing the occasional omen and popping off. Thanks for the good times.
Yo, Phi. Watching you play in Sajam Slam got me really excited about SF6 and basically converted me. I can't wait for more of your SF content.
37:45 I agree! I think when everyone has all the tools in the toolbox it will be more difficult to build a unique toolbox or in this case character. I think they will have to take away stuff because they can't keep adding stuff all the time.
Based on Daddyking's Video and his talk about Heihachi's movelist, he mentions in Korean that Heihachi's b4 is a knockdown/wallsplat on Normal Hit and also a launcher on CH
It's not a homing move anymore sure but I don't think it's worse than the T7 b4 given all these other features
th-cam.com/video/z5z60mP0GZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z4O3AMcQuf8LMJhN&t=439
Edit: As more Heihachi came out, Brawlpro's video shows that new b4 on whiff looks absolutely terrible
th-cam.com/video/3p3kogfGl_Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8JW78r1fHtslRTj_&t=637
Dude, it has those same properties in t7 while being homing. What are you talking about
@orugnet it spent the tailspin in T7. In T8 you can still tornado after the crumple. So the only thing I lost is the homing but the range looks way better with higher combo/damage potential
Thanks for the breakdown video Phi!
Great! More casino gameplay!
I am really enjoying your videos and appreciate all the work you put into them!
Hey man, thanks for the video. I don't have a whole lot of time to watch these sorts of things, so I'm really appreciative of the channels like yours that'll actually take the time. The people calling you A shell. Don't read the comments. Everything on the internet now is just legitimately rage bait.
It's kinda cold rn, so i'll watch later, but leaving a comment to boost
Have a nice day, Phi
He doing tricks on it
Real@@ptv032913
Shill or no shill awesome breakdown. Im hype asf for heihachi release. All this is new to me, last Tekken i played was Tekken Tag
37:40 I personally think in order to "top" Heihachi they should try leaning into design and combat style instead of additional install and and stances.
One example I've always liked in in DNF Duel there is a gunslinger character who is not a zoner (I think) so his fists become the muzzle flash of the gun.
Something like that for instance where character style is what makes us want to buy them instead of installs. Plus more does not always mean better, Kazuya is a perfect example of this, it is fine to keep it simple.
Thanks for the vid Phi, appreciate you
The part about df1,2 just frame and blue spark was super confusing though
Phidx you forgot that everything is fixed and you can buy cool glasses..
I love your content I learn so much and you’re entertaining man don’t ever change
Can not thank you enough for these recaps.
I'm new to Tekken, this instalment has been awesome to play and I'm really having fun learning the characters. Heihachi kinda feels a lot like Lidia and Reina put together into one character, and as far as DLC goes I would've expected a bit more creativity. I love his presentation, he looks badass as hell, but his moveset looks kinda samey.
Perfect electric is just a short input for an electric. A true perfect electric is when the inputs match the speed of the move. In a true perfect electric, the neutral is must only be 1 frame long.
I'm currently having a really hard time evaluating him tbh, some of the stance stuff looked really good but they never really go into counterplay or using it in an actual match in the livestream, it looks similar to dealing with Reina's stances so that could be quite good, or he could be like Lidia who turned out to be worse than she seemed like she could be, And there's no real precedent for a once per match mechanic in Tekken before, closest thing would be Leroy's staff but thats different in almost every other way, will probably end up spending the entire day messing around with him when he comes out
completely fair and balanced character I can't wait to use heihachi mishima again. now we just need jinpachi
Relax. It's a Kings welcome treatment, starting him as OP as tribute to Tekken 30th Anniversary. They don't want him to start as garbage , he started the Iron Fist Tournament. Devil Jin will get nerfed again based on content creators reactions to Heihachi's moveset 😂
That's a hot take and it's bullshit. They make all dlc op trash. It's not because hei is special. Namco is just shit like that.
@@dacatindahat8275 literally none of the dlc characters have been op, so far both lidia and eddy are just casino and dont have anything else going on which is the reason why they are regularly considered to be towards the bottom of the roster. they have nothing except constant casino, you make one right guess and they are dead but yes keep spouting nonsense because you wont learn the match up.
@wyzin5865 buddy I've been playing this game for 30 years. I know the match ups. Half the cast has unmanageable 50/50s or useful heat. The others are just stuck playing tekken 7. Please tell me how I know nothing about a game I've been paying more than likely longer than you've been breathing.
@@dacatindahat8275 you did not address what i said at all you just wanted to flaunt your sense of superiority because of how long youve been playing if youre an adult act like it and dont throw a tantrum when someone calls you out. You said they make all dlc op trash, neither of the dlc characters we have in tekken 8 are op they are actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the cast so please explain, or are you just gonna throw another tantrum?
Getting called a shill for being excited about the state of the game is such a Tekken experience lmao.
I was skeptical at first but I'm pretty excited for Heihachi. If any Mishima was ever going to be absolutely filthy in T8, it would be the hyper aggressive grandad. I just hope its balanced, we dont need another Dragunov meta situation.
Also, Heihachi saying "Ashii" late sucks. The concept of him being so arrogant and powerful that he actively directs you towards his attacks, and that have mechnanical relevance was amazing.
Edit,: Stances, decent lows, no execution electric and an FC 15f launcher that negates his need for electric execution on crouch... He's gotten the Jin treatment of patching his weaknesses without notable nerfs thanks to new moves/properties outweighing any nerfs to prior core tools. Genuinely sad to see as it homogenises the character imho. Flaws breed creativity and T8 is adverse to flaws it seems. Boo hiss.
2nd edit: Bruh it just keeps getting worse. Like he sounds amazing to pilot and is as strong as you'd expect in lore, but he seems so unjustifiably obnoxious to VS on paper.
I feel you man. Im still sad to what they did to Jin
Nah no skipping bro I just watch your videos all the way through. 👍🏼
I mained Hei for the entirety of T7 and was really hoping he could represent a style closer to classic Tekken, considering how iconic he is as an old Tekken character - so seeing all the new stuff is definitely a little disappointing in that way. I'm sure I'll still enjoy playing him, but the way his new design is so heavily centered around these (seemingly obviously overtuned?) stances, makes me feel like they'll just nerf it all after a while, and I'll just have to figure out a way to make him work after that.
It doesn’t make sense for the other Mishimas to have a PEWGF other than Kazuya. They keep ruining these unique aspects of a character. More stances now too, pretty lame tbh
I doubt it'll be the winter dlc release but I think an angle they can go is adding a devil Reina character with another free story update. Seems like that's the way the story is going
Dude, seriously I just love your positivity take, truly agree with you on the way you are doing your reviews, we already have lots of people talking bad bout the game, lets talk about the good stuff, and its not like you r not talking about the bad stuff either, you just aren't destroying the game like those people want, its just nuts calling you shill.
In a week I will have a close 2-2 round game vs Heihachi. As the fifth round starts I might as well put my hands up since they are are just going heat and Ultimate style and beat me is 20 secs no matter what I do.
I will say, people complaining about stance characters being common is weird because none of the stances are the same really. You can only add so much to a character without stances, you'd have to start removing stuff at some point, and so adding stances is the clear natural progression of their movesets, its either that, remove moves, or the character never changes across games besides how good the model is.
A more specific complaint I've seen is that the dlc are all "stance rushdown 50/50s" and I'm gonna be real, if you think this, you have not played against or as Eddy and Lidia enough. Yes both have stances, but thats about it, Eddy is a stance rushdown character but I'm not sure if 50/50 is accurate, its not really a guessing game against him, theres options.
Lidia is even worse in this aspect, her best way to enter stance is ff2, you can jab to beat every option but 1. All of her other stances are completely reactable, the only 50/50 is Heaven and Earth 1+2 or 2. Because of this lack of 50/50s and fake pressure, she's actually best played defensively, and not as a rushdown, or at least if not defensively, just not like a psycho like with Nina and Alissa.
So overall I think a lot of the dlc complaints are sort of built off an incorrect assumption, because even if we say Eddy is a stance rushdown 50/50 machine (one of the worst characters despite this), Lidia absolutely isn't, meaning they arent "homogenizing the roster" like some people try to pretend like they are
heraing you use "otg" and "install" for the first time when talking about tekken was somehow wholesome lol
Love you phi. it’s so sad that tekken player are never happy even when developers listen to them
If we even want to criticize we also need to appreciate for the good things they do
The 4th DLC character will be a guest character. That's what'll reset the install theme so that Tekken Project can focus on new or no mechanics for the season 2 DLC.
Watching two ppl move around a screen for 20 seconds to get one combo out is boring from a casual's perspective, makes since why they'd go more aggressive. Ppl want to see a trading of blows, and it makes the games more intense imo. Great vid Phi I'm may pick him up now.
this was the gut punch i was anticipating when your last video dropped … here we go ;~;
I find his stances are too similar to Lidia's. That being said, I don't feel like his stances add much of anything.
I am really disappointed with what they did to him in regards to stances. The rest looks cool and fun though, and I am excited to see how his install plays out.
Thank you very much all your work you do for these vidoes
Hi Phi, will you do Street Fighter beginer videos? Im moving away from Tekken and you have the best beginner guides on TH-cam.
I think that there is no need to take negative feedback personally much, mostly. Comments' in terms of their attitude not really affect the channel performance, while their amount does. The content itself is great, notepad thing makes your channel the best. Paid or not does not mean anything, and what happens in comments is what you usually saying at the end of video - "Let me know, what you think". What exactly they or specific person, like me, thinking, is a thought, no more. I'm sure that there is other much more representative channel metrics exist, that say "everything is cool"
I knew they'd ruin him but it still hurt.
No need to test f4, you can see the “forcing crouch” property in the attack data window (eg: 36:23)
Tekken has become a stance, charge, linking attack game with guard breaks. Dont forget the rage and armored moves. Is this even tekken anymore? 😂
Honestly the issue isn’t that he’s so strong from what we can see it, it’s just that we also have characters like devil Jin in this game. The balancing just isn’t the best at the moment, no character is truly bad but there’s such a large gap between the top characters and the rest of the cast
There's many other kinds of 'resource' mechanics they could add that aren't these install mechanics, though I don't know if tekken players want that kind of full shenanigan. Even still, I don't think that kind of thing is very important to sales, I think what matters is that people feel like a character has identity and does cool powerful stuff. This is why something like labcoat 21 released deliberately OP in the way that heihachi seems to be for tekken, to feel powerful. For eddy and lidia I think they still had great identity, probably because eddy is a legacy character that plays in a unique way and lidia just wasn't eddy. Hei really is a shift in this way, and a point to mark where the devs might go off the deep end and forget to make characters that have gameplay identities
The trick, though, is that this won't affect Heihachi's DLC numbers, it'll *maybe* affect DLC 4, but it will definitely affect season 2 if DLC 4 follows the trend. They have to understand that now if they want to stop the DLC sales from tanking imo. (reason being is that most people aren't going to make wide judgements about a character from a trailer, so the majority of people will still buy the characters until they try them out and see "wow, actually, this is kind of samey and boring" and then stop buying DLC. I know it doesn't feel like that since the dedicated tekken community makes wildly committal judgements about a character from even like, 30 seconds of footage, but the majority of the audience is most likely the polar opposite.)
Good luck, Phi. The unhappy ones in madge land will crucify you for illegally enjoying positive things in a game with many negatives. They cannot comprehend your quest to "have fun" and "play a game you enjoy". Hope you didn't skip leg day as you wave dash to the next patch drop. o7
Godlike intro
Heihachi has always been my fav forever
Man I though they were gonna fuck legacy hei with the stances but I think they made a pretty good job integrating t8 stance mixup rushdown❤Great recap, I loved the intro😂😂
So Heihachi is still the Heihachi we’ve known with some new stances, but he gets a once-per-round install that negates the majority of his weaknesses 💀
I play stance characters but... i feel like there's too many characters with stances now
Great video man, keep it up :)
I really dislike that in modern internet culture, if you talk positively about something you’re a shill and if you talk negatively about something you’re a hater or something of the sort.
Hyped for hei I hope he still plays a bit like legacy heihachi with some new stance pressure.
Super random question - what is the white sloped shelving unit called that you are using for your Arcade Controllers?
We got it secondhand, but it was used for magazine display in a water store
Warrior instinct buff seems like it was developed to just give Heihachi the round you decide to use it in.
The only issue I have with stances(outside of forcing players to lab anti-tech) are when they allow the character that's using them to be evasive during the transition into stance. Attacks in general that have built-in defense are cancerous. Let players commit to their options, and the potential consequences of said options.
I never really liked Hei in previous games but he looks like so much fun in here, definetly trying it out
I think you missed the "gold spark" perfect JF on those charge attacks, seems significant.
We will only truly know when he is playable.
As a past lodia main. Just mash on hei and those stances won’t be a problem
Brother, don't listen to people saying stuff like "shill". I see it on all my favorite successful creators. If there isn't a complex or meaningful criticism, just scroll past it. Your content is detailed, thoughtful, and consistent; and I really appreciate the work you put in. Also, can we note that the T7 clip is the reason why the Tekken team went in a new direction.
I like the new direction. Heihachi needed a new identity, because he felt like an after though in 7
Yeah he looks impress and all but I have Divine Step I’ll be fine
I think it’s great that the barriers are breaking down, but man tekken players have really been on their own island in the fgc for 30 years lol. Regarding otg and install.
It's always been "grounded hit" 😂
No equivalent of install until Tekken 8, unless you wanna count Tekken 7's rage drive system
solid intro lmao
I had put off tekken, cause i couldnt find i character i like. This time im filled with joy, this might be him, and i can play tekken again
First 3 seconds of the video got me hooked lmao