I think Heihachi is good and Ur just a hater-. Okay Jokes aside this game is obsessed with making everyone into a 50/50 stance character which feels so unnecessary and boring.
True, but the problem might be that there are only like seven Lei users in the world. People generally do not use this character. That said, no one used Shaheen but he came back anyway - likely for representation purposes.
I mean considering they released the story mode on the third DLC, that is making me think the 4th one is gonna be completely unrelated to the story. In other words, a guest character.
Yes!!! Thank you PHilDX!! your final thoughts was the highlight of the video! its very concerning where the future of DLC characters or the direction tekken in general is heading in. Players dont want more constant stance 5050 gameplay, it waters the game down and iconic characters start to loss their identity. yea it looks cool and flashy to appeal the viewers and all but not really fun for the players, and I feel players are becoming more like guinea pigs for developers to promote their games.... until people become more aware! paid to win DLC will continue to keep on ramping up...
Hey PhiDX I don't think you're a shill. My take on your patch review is you focused primarily on the positives and didn't have much to say on the potential negatives - e.g. I'm not into sneakers, but my sister likes them, _moves on_ . Meanwhile Framewhisper is on the opposite end focusing entirely on negativity. For me Aris does the best job at giving a balanced prospective and being vocal about both the stuff he likes/hates. Though, I do expect some level of bias from you because of past events like Tekken X Chipotle. Being positive about Tekken is in your best interests to be invited to more events and/or get a career as a Tekken caster or PR person. And while I think you genuinely care about the game - there will be viewers who don't like Tekken right now and just assume you are positive for the reasons I put above.
I don't really agree with that "being positive to be invited" thing because being happy and positive is just a healthy mindset and not everyone is depressed and miserable but hides it for money or pushing an agenda. You're kinda implying that he's a shill but you understand why so that's ok. I think he's positive about Tekken because Tekken 8 is pushing good updates and is overall a pretty good game.
Finally SOMEONE saying it. I can’t stand Frame’s videos anymore and Aris has boneheaded takes sometimes because who the heck doesn’t? We shouldn’t treat him as if he knows what’s best for the game at all times, he isn’t a Tekken prophet lol
@@Kennyn not likely when you can get a free OTGF from stance. letting it launch again for 70% of your hp is gonna be beyond broken when anyone can do it
@@omarismail2252 I know. I would prefer they reward execution, instead of giving easy mode electrics/omens from stance. However, it doesn’t seem like that’s the direction they want to go.
Almost positive the SC6 devs moved over to work on this game after that franchise shut down again... and it shows with so many of these asscheeks mechanics just like SC6 started out
Harada said Heihachi is ”completely dead” because they wanted us to lose it when he is revealed, which we did.. it’s normal Harada behavior. I was only smiling when he said that because i knew Heihachi is way too popular to stay ”video game dead”
I mean, if you played the entire Tekken series, you would know this isn't the first time he supposedly "died" and came back. This guy got dropped off the same cliff multiple times, blasted through a temple wall into the abyss, nuked by multiple Jack copies and took backshots from Kazumi. Of course he's coming back.
Good luck, Phi. The unhappy ones in madge land will crucify you for illegally enjoying positive things in a game with many negatives. They cannot comprehend your quest to "have fun" and "play a game you enjoy". Hope you didn't skip leg day as you wave dash to the next patch drop. o7
Heihachis best low was pretty much his generic d+4 all the way up untill they buffed his hellsweep in season 4. D+4's being -15 across the board now is pretty rough, I can't imagine that hellsweep is going to remain tracking and +8 in Tekken 8.
You make excellent content and you’re very thoughtful let mongoloids opinions in one ear and out the other. Also love long form videos feels like an episode or podcast addition that I can sit with.
As much as I dislike Heihachi’s multiple stance transitions, guard-breaking moves, install, and frame-perfect charge moves, I feel it’s okay if it’s only him. With Heihachi billed as the ‘Resurrected King of Iron Fist,’ they seem to want him to be the ultimate Tekken 8 character. The real problem would be if they started giving these Swiss Army-style stance cancels to every character.
Based on Daddyking's Video and his talk about Heihachi's movelist, he mentions in Korean that Heihachi's b4 is a knockdown/wallsplat on Normal Hit and also a launcher on CH It's not a homing move anymore sure but I don't think it's worse than the T7 b4 given all these other features th-cam.com/video/z5z60mP0GZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z4O3AMcQuf8LMJhN&t=439
@orugnet it spent the tailspin in T7. In T8 you can still tornado after the crumple. So the only thing I lost is the homing but the range looks way better with higher combo/damage potential
I was super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because in T7 he seemed like Mr. Tekken: direct, no fancy mechanics, no heavy reliance on stances. Now I am super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because he is Mr. Tekken 8. Look at all these new mechanics, and powerful stances, and he is still quite direct! Neat! Also, wonderful video! Didn't have time for the full Dev breakdown, so this was an excellent alternative.
Tekken 7 always had 50/50 stance mix ups but the main way this happened was if you got hit. You get hit and the punishment was to take the mix up. T8 on the other hand bombards you with 50/50 stance mixups on hit and block as punishment for daring to block. Blocking in this game is against the rules.
It doesn’t make sense for the other Mishimas to have a PEWGF other than Kazuya. They keep ruining these unique aspects of a character. More stances now too, pretty lame tbh
Relax. It's a Kings welcome treatment, starting him as OP as tribute to Tekken 30th Anniversary. They don't want him to start as garbage , he started the Iron Fist Tournament. Devil Jin will get nerfed again based on content creators reactions to Heihachi's moveset 😂
@@dacatindahat8275 literally none of the dlc characters have been op, so far both lidia and eddy are just casino and dont have anything else going on which is the reason why they are regularly considered to be towards the bottom of the roster. they have nothing except constant casino, you make one right guess and they are dead but yes keep spouting nonsense because you wont learn the match up.
@wyzin5865 buddy I've been playing this game for 30 years. I know the match ups. Half the cast has unmanageable 50/50s or useful heat. The others are just stuck playing tekken 7. Please tell me how I know nothing about a game I've been paying more than likely longer than you've been breathing.
@@dacatindahat8275 you did not address what i said at all you just wanted to flaunt your sense of superiority because of how long youve been playing if youre an adult act like it and dont throw a tantrum when someone calls you out. You said they make all dlc op trash, neither of the dlc characters we have in tekken 8 are op they are actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the cast so please explain, or are you just gonna throw another tantrum?
I think it’s great that the barriers are breaking down, but man tekken players have really been on their own island in the fgc for 30 years lol. Regarding otg and install.
I just hope he retains his playstyle with this shift towards stances, as there is no character in T8 that fits it and he was my main in T7. Heihachi in T7 is an offensive defensive character where you limit your opponents options and you want them to press into you. He had his hit confirmable 10f string, and a 10f counter hit string, coupled with a lot of moves that left him -2 or better, limiting his opponent to use faster than 13f moves or risk getting hit. Most fast moves are either linear or have limited reach so you now use movement to punish, giving better reward than the 10f strings i.e. Heihachi is a character that uses offense to limit the opponents options in hopes they press into you so that you can whiff punish. His weakness is that he doesn’t have mixups. All of his lows in T7 was bad, one reactable and launch punishble, the other does the damage of a jab, leaves +5, but is stagger on block. In T7 throws were weaker too so they weren’t a viable mixup option. This means that his strong offense doesn’t net him any reward, unless he is able to bait a response from the opponent, and counteract accordingly. Conclusion is an aggressive character that doesn’t get much damage unless the opponent responds, and baits this responds by doing moves that leaves them slightly minus on block, or moves that are plus on block, but overextends.
From the sounds of it, he's gotten the T8 Jin treatment; weaknesses lessened, some key tools nerfed but a lot of new tools that outperform the nerfs and a plethora of accessibility features - not to mention he has insane stances. I'm very skeptical tbh. He seems about as T7 Heihachi as Jin seems like T7 Jin. Which is a huge downgrade imho. Flaws breed creativity and give personality.
Your description sounds exactliky like Lee in tekken 8. A lot of his key moves is like -1 on block (ie. his df1) and he can use turnstealing moves such as ff4(if they jab) or 4,3,4 (if they use 13f mids) etc. He makes the opponent scared to press into him through these defense turnstealing moves.
I know man! its actually bad character design in my opinion! all characters having stances starts to water the characters down where they lose their identity
Yeah its the 3rd dlc in Tekken 8 and all of them literally have the exact same gameplay with no nuance. Juts do one move into stance into another stance and then they press so you get a combo etc. I dont see any kind of fun in that gameplay, especially with the fact that you can go into stances on block which is total bullshit to me
after seeing actual matches it doesnt seem like hes gonna be too stancey in neutral it looked like its main use was in combos? also didnt heihachi always have raijin and fujin stances? i know its very tekken 8 to have moves into stance but i dont necessarily see it as a bad thing. as long as they dont make it annoyingly plus on block on stance transition so there is counterplay or even you just get interrupted for going into stance on block to prevent it being spammed in the open.
2:20 actually online is the only way you can play on this stage if you're not buying dlc, in t7 I didn't own half of dlc stages but still played on them in ranked cause my opponents owned them
I think the issues with stances have less to do with adding them and more to do with them all being the same thing. Fast high, unsafe mid launcher, low, and tracking option.
I will say, people complaining about stance characters being common is weird because none of the stances are the same really. You can only add so much to a character without stances, you'd have to start removing stuff at some point, and so adding stances is the clear natural progression of their movesets, its either that, remove moves, or the character never changes across games besides how good the model is. A more specific complaint I've seen is that the dlc are all "stance rushdown 50/50s" and I'm gonna be real, if you think this, you have not played against or as Eddy and Lidia enough. Yes both have stances, but thats about it, Eddy is a stance rushdown character but I'm not sure if 50/50 is accurate, its not really a guessing game against him, theres options. Lidia is even worse in this aspect, her best way to enter stance is ff2, you can jab to beat every option but 1. All of her other stances are completely reactable, the only 50/50 is Heaven and Earth 1+2 or 2. Because of this lack of 50/50s and fake pressure, she's actually best played defensively, and not as a rushdown, or at least if not defensively, just not like a psycho like with Nina and Alissa. So overall I think a lot of the dlc complaints are sort of built off an incorrect assumption, because even if we say Eddy is a stance rushdown 50/50 machine (one of the worst characters despite this), Lidia absolutely isn't, meaning they arent "homogenizing the roster" like some people try to pretend like they are
It's a shame they turned every character into a 50/50 mix character. One of the reasons I enjoyed playing so many characters in T8 were the fact they made me learn how to play in a different way. I just hope he will be fun to play the way I wanna play. But definitely you will need to go unga bunga if you want to win.
The more I play T8 and the more I learn, the less I like the game.. Stopped playing a few months back even thou i played T7 nonstop, and even T8 at the beginning. But I HATE this slow machine playstyle that everyone has
When I first started Tekken 8 and think of stances, I expected stuff like Xiaoyu, Yoshimitsu, Hwaorang, where stances were another set of neutral options you could play with that excel in different scenarios. With the new DLC stance pressure playstyle, I actually feel like I have less options in neutral, because suddenly I do a move that enters an unsafe stance, and I give up all my pressure not knowing what moves come out of it. Versus being able to enter a stance manually and staying there to explore my options. Eddy was the biggest offender of this for me. For capoeira being so focused on unpredictable evasive movements, why doesn't his stances play like xiaoyu's or lili's? Why can't you stay in negativa and move around to evade highs, or cartwheel as an advanced sidestep?
37:45 I agree! I think when everyone has all the tools in the toolbox it will be more difficult to build a unique toolbox or in this case character. I think they will have to take away stuff because they can't keep adding stuff all the time.
There's a video of the full hei move list and we learn that he's even more broken than you might think bcs : - Chrome dome (f1+2) is still a i12 high but leaves the opponent -14 crouching so he can either do b1,4 (i14 mid,mid 36 dmg +7 knockdown in front of you) or df4,2 (i13 mid,mid 33dmg wallsplat) but he can also funnily enough just launch you with twin piston in warrior's instinct (12f launcher lol) - He has a i15 string like Lydia's political storm which does 44 damage so f4 on crouching opponents will do way more dmg than regular df1,2. It also has a blue spark version but we don't see it. - b4 is a CH launcher - b3 is a i14 tracking high with both high and mid extension which are natural combos (the mid extension gives a oki) - You didn't mention it but all his just release moves heals him even on block - 1,1,2 does 31 dmg in War Instinct... So overall his defensive options will also be insane (I'm still not sure but if f4 on crouching opponent is +15, and he can transition into stance, can't he just launch you with the mid electric without warrior instinct)
I really dislike that in modern internet culture, if you talk positively about something you’re a shill and if you talk negatively about something you’re a hater or something of the sort. Hyped for hei I hope he still plays a bit like legacy heihachi with some new stance pressure.
I mained Hei for the entirety of T7 and was really hoping he could represent a style closer to classic Tekken, considering how iconic he is as an old Tekken character - so seeing all the new stuff is definitely a little disappointing in that way. I'm sure I'll still enjoy playing him, but the way his new design is so heavily centered around these (seemingly obviously overtuned?) stances, makes me feel like they'll just nerf it all after a while, and I'll just have to figure out a way to make him work after that.
Why do we need so many aggressive stances? Why can't we have aggressive neutral? Miguel is my main and your comment near the end did make we worried because a lot of this stance pressure is similar to him, but more narrow in a 50/50.
I find his stances are too similar to Lidia's. That being said, I don't feel like his stances add much of anything. I am really disappointed with what they did to him in regards to stances. The rest looks cool and fun though, and I am excited to see how his install plays out.
Fighting games are weird bc when they introduce new characters the player doesn’t just get to play as them, they have to fight them as well. So if they’re too strong or annoying to fight against players get upset, but if they’re boring or weak, players still get upset.
Love you phi. it’s so sad that tekken player are never happy even when developers listen to them If we even want to criticize we also need to appreciate for the good things they do
So Heihachi is still the Heihachi we’ve known with some new stances, but he gets a once-per-round install that negates the majority of his weaknesses 💀
raijin stance from that op b2 is absolutely unacceptable. I remember back in T7 1,b2 was already one of the strongest strings in the game without all these. I'd say nerf the sh out of him, I'm talking leroy treatment, but leave him op in warrior instinct, leave the non-staggering hellsweep too lol it's hilarious. (Also give us back the -1 on block df1?)
It's crazy to be called a shill when you like something, even if it's just quality of life or some shit. Damned if you say something nice, Damned if you say something bad, and Damned if you say nothing at all. This is the TRUE content creator casino. Oh, I also can't wait to stare at Nina on the menu screen. 👍
In a week I will have a close 2-2 round game vs Heihachi. As the fifth round starts I might as well put my hands up since they are are just going heat and Ultimate style and beat me is 20 secs no matter what I do.
The devil is in the details with this. The new stances are good, and the Super Heihachi mechanic is an extra heat bar that doesn't run out in the round it's used in. Still doesn't negate the fact that Kazuya has been left behind in this game.
I don't understand why Heihachi and Jin can go from stance into Electric but Kazuya can't from 3,1 DF, also i think Reina can't get EWGF from HW DF, a bit inconsistent
He looks very cool with alot of love put into his return. However. The strength and accessibility of Heihachi, really makes me look at certain characters in the current roster and think: Why?
Getting called a shill for being excited about the state of the game is such a Tekken experience lmao. I was skeptical at first but I'm pretty excited for Heihachi. If any Mishima was ever going to be absolutely filthy in T8, it would be the hyper aggressive grandad. I just hope its balanced, we dont need another Dragunov meta situation. Also, Heihachi saying "Ashii" late sucks. The concept of him being so arrogant and powerful that he actively directs you towards his attacks, and that have mechnanical relevance was amazing. Edit,: Stances, decent lows, no execution electric and an FC 15f launcher that negates his need for electric execution on crouch... He's gotten the Jin treatment of patching his weaknesses without notable nerfs thanks to new moves/properties outweighing any nerfs to prior core tools. Genuinely sad to see as it homogenises the character imho. Flaws breed creativity and T8 is adverse to flaws it seems. Boo hiss. 2nd edit: Bruh it just keeps getting worse. Like he sounds amazing to pilot and is as strong as you'd expect in lore, but he seems so unjustifiably obnoxious to VS on paper.
HoW DarE yOu be happy for positive changes in a game you enjoy and how dare i agree with you! iron grandpa lookin' sick asf can't wait to get my hands on him
There's many other kinds of 'resource' mechanics they could add that aren't these install mechanics, though I don't know if tekken players want that kind of full shenanigan. Even still, I don't think that kind of thing is very important to sales, I think what matters is that people feel like a character has identity and does cool powerful stuff. This is why something like labcoat 21 released deliberately OP in the way that heihachi seems to be for tekken, to feel powerful. For eddy and lidia I think they still had great identity, probably because eddy is a legacy character that plays in a unique way and lidia just wasn't eddy. Hei really is a shift in this way, and a point to mark where the devs might go off the deep end and forget to make characters that have gameplay identities The trick, though, is that this won't affect Heihachi's DLC numbers, it'll *maybe* affect DLC 4, but it will definitely affect season 2 if DLC 4 follows the trend. They have to understand that now if they want to stop the DLC sales from tanking imo. (reason being is that most people aren't going to make wide judgements about a character from a trailer, so the majority of people will still buy the characters until they try them out and see "wow, actually, this is kind of samey and boring" and then stop buying DLC. I know it doesn't feel like that since the dedicated tekken community makes wildly committal judgements about a character from even like, 30 seconds of footage, but the majority of the audience is most likely the polar opposite.)
Brother, don't listen to people saying stuff like "shill". I see it on all my favorite successful creators. If there isn't a complex or meaningful criticism, just scroll past it. Your content is detailed, thoughtful, and consistent; and I really appreciate the work you put in. Also, can we note that the T7 clip is the reason why the Tekken team went in a new direction.
I'm wondering... If f4 without crouching was +7 with stance and without stance meaning if you hit your opponent when they're crouching then FUJ 2 should be guaranteed because you get +15 and FUJ 2 is i15. No need for WI df2,1 to launch
It's a shame. Now they even deny people who don't wanna spend money for the season pass the new arena. What a joke Namco has become. I WILL NOT PAY FOR THAT!
I get everyones concerens but we had the characters with simular styles and movments for years being the mishimas there at the core of tekken . I find it intresting we get 3 stance character one which has always had stances for years so im not counting eddy and all of a sudden its a problem . I mean after dealing with drag all this time and other bs id rather deal with hei
The 4th DLC character will be a guest character. That's what'll reset the install theme so that Tekken Project can focus on new or no mechanics for the season 2 DLC.
He looks less calm, collected and oppressive compared to t7 and I loved that quality of his and it’s why he was my main. The t8 version looks a bit like a street fighter character with the quick sudden movement animations. I had stopped playing t8 but as soon as he was announced, I knew I would be back when he releases 😂
my only problem with heihachi is they are continuing this "sped up animation" thing. it's really annoying. and Phi you don't have to explain yourself to mf's. people find any hill to die on for any reason. do they think the casino game play is "predictive gameplay"?? like i'm supposed to know and guess the rock paper scissors and pre-emptively act on my guess?
Heihachi is going to be really scary? It was a good idea to split the two video to have this one only to the character, if you can, you should continu for next dlc character ^^
Demon Paw Style Attacks (ff input, long range, safe KND mids, under i20f) that aren't heat engagers: Lars ff1+2, Jin ff4, Zafina ff4, Leo ff2, Lili ff3+4, Raven ff2 (Only punishable against the wall, lots of pushback otherwise)
I think Heihachi is good and Ur just a hater-.
Okay Jokes aside this game is obsessed with making everyone into a 50/50 stance character which feels so unnecessary and boring.
He is kind of the original though, it makes sense for him to be like this.
I was just saying this, like all 3 dlc are stance based mixup characters, which I understand for Lidia, but Heihachi?
@@jonteguy not really since kazuya was first
There is nothing wrong with stances.
@@GrownManPat you don't get it
i cant wait to only fight hei for a month straight
We've been fighting drags since release. I'm fucking tired of it.
@@noobslayer1196well it will be heihachi soon LMFAO
@@noobslayer1196they need to nerf the bastard they already made him easy enough
@@Scapne no. It will not. Lmao. Drag will body Hei.
@@Scapne it looks equally as balanced as kazuya. You don't get good lows but you're basically a pit bull bully with devastating mids.
Devil Jin turning to Bamco like "You got anymore of them perfect electrics? Feeling left out, here."
You got eyebeams and can fly stop begging
@@yungslack7311ok that’s all gimmicks and if you fall for it then you are just trash
ws3 ch is perfect electric territory
@@VerkoAviarhidea they are talking about 13f electric
@@yungslack7311 Not a DvJ player mate, stop being so weirdly hostile
i was expecting you to say "in response to that, fuck you" lol. that would've been sick
My aris arc is a few years away
Funny how the game is becoming more and more stance heavy, but Lei Wulong is nowhere in sight
I hope Lei never comes back.
Or is he? 👀
Last time people begged for years for Lei, Harada gave it and nobody played him. lol
True, but the problem might be that there are only like seven Lei users in the world. People generally do not use this character. That said, no one used Shaheen but he came back anyway - likely for representation purposes.
I would play Lei. I really want him lol
I think the Tekken community are top tier in the fgc at scaring people into not wanting to play their game
Street fighter better
@yungslack7311 no one asked
Good you should be playing sf6. Tekken 8 is a mess
@@pledgedsun0752 or... hear me out. We play the game we like and prefer
@@cnqrknightyt9892 this hurt me but you right
23:12 unfortunately, that is still gonna parry kicks at least according to the gameplay video with Kazuya where he parries Kazuya's ws3 at 1:10.
Making a call now, final DLC character is Ogre.
🙏🏾
I mean considering they released the story mode on the third DLC, that is making me think the 4th one is gonna be completely unrelated to the story. In other words, a guest character.
I know it isn't worth much, but Harada said no guest on season 1 @@ChizeSOI
@@lucastonoli3256Lol, yeah, considering he said Hei was “completely dead”
@@lucastonoli3256the same guy said that Heihachi Mishima is completely dead
Yes!!! Thank you PHilDX!! your final thoughts was the highlight of the video! its very concerning where the future of DLC characters or the direction tekken in general is heading in. Players dont want more constant stance 5050 gameplay, it waters the game down and iconic characters start to loss their identity. yea it looks cool and flashy to appeal the viewers and all but not really fun for the players, and I feel players are becoming more like guinea pigs for developers to promote their games.... until people become more aware! paid to win DLC will continue to keep on ramping up...
Hey PhiDX
I don't think you're a shill.
My take on your patch review is you focused primarily on the positives and didn't have much to say on the potential negatives - e.g. I'm not into sneakers, but my sister likes them, _moves on_ .
Meanwhile Framewhisper is on the opposite end focusing entirely on negativity.
For me Aris does the best job at giving a balanced prospective and being vocal about both the stuff he likes/hates.
Though, I do expect some level of bias from you because of past events like Tekken X Chipotle.
Being positive about Tekken is in your best interests to be invited to more events and/or get a career as a Tekken caster or PR person.
And while I think you genuinely care about the game - there will be viewers who don't like Tekken right now and just assume you are positive for the reasons I put above.
Aris hates everything though. As far as I know the only thing he's said he likes about Tekken 8 is Yoshi lol
@@joshbell123eeiioooooooo
I love Aris but he should never be taken that serious. Hes hypocritical, inconsistent and has goofy biases.
I don't really agree with that "being positive to be invited" thing because being happy and positive is just a healthy mindset and not everyone is depressed and miserable but hides it for money or pushing an agenda. You're kinda implying that he's a shill but you understand why so that's ok. I think he's positive about Tekken because Tekken 8 is pushing good updates and is overall a pretty good game.
Finally SOMEONE saying it. I can’t stand Frame’s videos anymore and Aris has boneheaded takes sometimes because who the heck doesn’t? We shouldn’t treat him as if he knows what’s best for the game at all times, he isn’t a Tekken prophet lol
It's kinda cold rn, so i'll watch later, but leaving a comment to boost
Have a nice day, Phi
He doing tricks on it
My main is looking VERY STRONG! I can’t wait to play.
Edit: RIP OTGF combos. You will be missed 😢
It's my main don't touch him
They'll probably bring it back in the future. Remember otgf launch wasn't even a thing in vanilla t7
@@stealthexecutor563 That’s what I’m hoping
@@Kennyn not likely when you can get a free OTGF from stance. letting it launch again for 70% of your hp is gonna be beyond broken when anyone can do it
@@omarismail2252 I know. I would prefer they reward execution, instead of giving easy mode electrics/omens from stance. However, it doesn’t seem like that’s the direction they want to go.
why are they so obsessed with turning every dlc character into a stance party game 50/50 machine tho. i thought this was tekken and not SC6
Bro you don't gotta punch down on SC like that 😭
@@ThiefofCrystals Launch SC6 was a RPS simulator
Almost positive the SC6 devs moved over to work on this game after that franchise shut down again... and it shows with so many of these asscheeks mechanics just like SC6 started out
@@agni2051 Yeah that's true, we don't like to talk about Reversal Edge
The 1+2 into ff2 was a thing he had back in t5. Back then he could do half health from a 10f punish
What if instead of Heihachi he was freakhachi and did the electric wind ass eat.
Bro ❤
Heihachi FREAKshima
you sound 12
@Ab-ks5ui ok Diddy I know you want to imagine a 12 year old talking about eating ass but keep me out of your pedophilic role play
Not funny nice try tho
Harada said Heihachi is ”completely dead” because they wanted us to lose it when he is revealed, which we did.. it’s normal Harada behavior.
I was only smiling when he said that because i knew Heihachi is way too popular to stay ”video game dead”
Technically not a lie, dead but resurrected
No, he said "compuriteri ded"
@@NicoSleepyLeencompletely dad
@@NicoSleepyLeenwas he? is what we saw in the story mode clips not entirely true?
I mean, if you played the entire Tekken series, you would know this isn't the first time he supposedly "died" and came back. This guy got dropped off the same cliff multiple times, blasted through a temple wall into the abyss, nuked by multiple Jack copies and took backshots from Kazumi.
Of course he's coming back.
Unbeatable throw into Stance guard break is crazy work
Good luck, Phi. The unhappy ones in madge land will crucify you for illegally enjoying positive things in a game with many negatives. They cannot comprehend your quest to "have fun" and "play a game you enjoy". Hope you didn't skip leg day as you wave dash to the next patch drop. o7
Heihachis best low was pretty much his generic d+4 all the way up untill they buffed his hellsweep in season 4. D+4's being -15 across the board now is pretty rough, I can't imagine that hellsweep is going to remain tracking and +8 in Tekken 8.
Phidx you forgot that everything is fixed and you can buy cool glasses..
You make excellent content and you’re very thoughtful let mongoloids opinions in one ear and out the other. Also love long form videos feels like an episode or podcast addition that I can sit with.
As much as I dislike Heihachi’s multiple stance transitions, guard-breaking moves, install, and frame-perfect charge moves, I feel it’s okay if it’s only him. With Heihachi billed as the ‘Resurrected King of Iron Fist,’ they seem to want him to be the ultimate Tekken 8 character.
The real problem would be if they started giving these Swiss Army-style stance cancels to every character.
Based on Daddyking's Video and his talk about Heihachi's movelist, he mentions in Korean that Heihachi's b4 is a knockdown/wallsplat on Normal Hit and also a launcher on CH
It's not a homing move anymore sure but I don't think it's worse than the T7 b4 given all these other features
th-cam.com/video/z5z60mP0GZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z4O3AMcQuf8LMJhN&t=439
Dude, it has those same properties in t7 while being homing. What are you talking about
@orugnet it spent the tailspin in T7. In T8 you can still tornado after the crumple. So the only thing I lost is the homing but the range looks way better with higher combo/damage potential
I play stance characters but... i feel like there's too many characters with stances now
I was super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because in T7 he seemed like Mr. Tekken: direct, no fancy mechanics, no heavy reliance on stances.
Now I am super excited to play Heihachi once he is released because he is Mr. Tekken 8. Look at all these new mechanics, and powerful stances, and he is still quite direct!
Neat!
Also, wonderful video! Didn't have time for the full Dev breakdown, so this was an excellent alternative.
Tekken 7 always had 50/50 stance mix ups but the main way this happened was if you got hit. You get hit and the punishment was to take the mix up. T8 on the other hand bombards you with 50/50 stance mixups on hit and block as punishment for daring to block. Blocking in this game is against the rules.
It doesn’t make sense for the other Mishimas to have a PEWGF other than Kazuya. They keep ruining these unique aspects of a character. More stances now too, pretty lame tbh
Shill or no shill awesome breakdown. Im hype asf for heihachi release. All this is new to me, last Tekken i played was Tekken Tag
Relax. It's a Kings welcome treatment, starting him as OP as tribute to Tekken 30th Anniversary. They don't want him to start as garbage , he started the Iron Fist Tournament. Devil Jin will get nerfed again based on content creators reactions to Heihachi's moveset 😂
That's a hot take and it's bullshit. They make all dlc op trash. It's not because hei is special. Namco is just shit like that.
@@dacatindahat8275 literally none of the dlc characters have been op, so far both lidia and eddy are just casino and dont have anything else going on which is the reason why they are regularly considered to be towards the bottom of the roster. they have nothing except constant casino, you make one right guess and they are dead but yes keep spouting nonsense because you wont learn the match up.
@wyzin5865 buddy I've been playing this game for 30 years. I know the match ups. Half the cast has unmanageable 50/50s or useful heat. The others are just stuck playing tekken 7. Please tell me how I know nothing about a game I've been paying more than likely longer than you've been breathing.
@@dacatindahat8275 you did not address what i said at all you just wanted to flaunt your sense of superiority because of how long youve been playing if youre an adult act like it and dont throw a tantrum when someone calls you out. You said they make all dlc op trash, neither of the dlc characters we have in tekken 8 are op they are actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the cast so please explain, or are you just gonna throw another tantrum?
I think it’s great that the barriers are breaking down, but man tekken players have really been on their own island in the fgc for 30 years lol. Regarding otg and install.
It's always been "grounded hit" 😂
No equivalent of install until Tekken 8, unless you wanna count Tekken 7's rage drive system
22 minutes in and this guy already sounds like a boss character
I just hope he retains his playstyle with this shift towards stances, as there is no character in T8 that fits it and he was my main in T7.
Heihachi in T7 is an offensive defensive character where you limit your opponents options and you want them to press into you.
He had his hit confirmable 10f string, and a 10f counter hit string, coupled with a lot of moves that left him -2 or better, limiting his opponent to use faster than 13f moves or risk getting hit.
Most fast moves are either linear or have limited reach so you now use movement to punish, giving better reward than the 10f strings i.e. Heihachi is a character that uses offense to limit the opponents options in hopes they press into you so that you can whiff punish.
His weakness is that he doesn’t have mixups.
All of his lows in T7 was bad, one reactable and launch punishble, the other does the damage of a jab, leaves +5, but is stagger on block.
In T7 throws were weaker too so they weren’t a viable mixup option.
This means that his strong offense doesn’t net him any reward, unless he is able to bait a response from the opponent, and counteract accordingly.
Conclusion is an aggressive character that doesn’t get much damage unless the opponent responds, and baits this responds by doing moves that leaves them slightly minus on block, or moves that are plus on block, but overextends.
Plus he needs execution for high damage
his df1 is -5 on block now
From the sounds of it, he's gotten the T8 Jin treatment; weaknesses lessened, some key tools nerfed but a lot of new tools that outperform the nerfs and a plethora of accessibility features - not to mention he has insane stances.
I'm very skeptical tbh. He seems about as T7 Heihachi as Jin seems like T7 Jin. Which is a huge downgrade imho. Flaws breed creativity and give personality.
Your description sounds exactliky like Lee in tekken 8. A lot of his key moves is like -1 on block (ie. his df1) and he can use turnstealing moves such as ff4(if they jab) or 4,3,4 (if they use 13f mids) etc. He makes the opponent scared to press into him through these defense turnstealing moves.
I don’t think db2 is reactable. The starting animation is very similar to b2.
Another rush-down stance mixup character. I can't stand this game design anymore.
I know man! its actually bad character design in my opinion! all characters having stances starts to water the characters down where they lose their identity
Yeah its the 3rd dlc in Tekken 8 and all of them literally have the exact same gameplay with no nuance. Juts do one move into stance into another stance and then they press so you get a combo etc. I dont see any kind of fun in that gameplay, especially with the fact that you can go into stances on block which is total bullshit to me
@@TK--ce6hpI agree, fighting Eddie and lidia is so damn annoying and I say that even though I normally kick their asses 😂
after seeing actual matches it doesnt seem like hes gonna be too stancey in neutral it looked like its main use was in combos? also didnt heihachi always have raijin and fujin stances? i know its very tekken 8 to have moves into stance but i dont necessarily see it as a bad thing. as long as they dont make it annoyingly plus on block on stance transition so there is counterplay or even you just get interrupted for going into stance on block to prevent it being spammed in the open.
@@No__feelingsLidia is by far one of the most annoying characters in the game FF2 spam into heat non stop
2:20 actually online is the only way you can play on this stage if you're not buying dlc, in t7 I didn't own half of dlc stages but still played on them in ranked cause my opponents owned them
Same
I think the issues with stances have less to do with adding them and more to do with them all being the same thing. Fast high, unsafe mid launcher, low, and tracking option.
Tekken team is creatively bankrupt
I knew they'd ruin him but it still hurt.
I will say, people complaining about stance characters being common is weird because none of the stances are the same really. You can only add so much to a character without stances, you'd have to start removing stuff at some point, and so adding stances is the clear natural progression of their movesets, its either that, remove moves, or the character never changes across games besides how good the model is.
A more specific complaint I've seen is that the dlc are all "stance rushdown 50/50s" and I'm gonna be real, if you think this, you have not played against or as Eddy and Lidia enough. Yes both have stances, but thats about it, Eddy is a stance rushdown character but I'm not sure if 50/50 is accurate, its not really a guessing game against him, theres options.
Lidia is even worse in this aspect, her best way to enter stance is ff2, you can jab to beat every option but 1. All of her other stances are completely reactable, the only 50/50 is Heaven and Earth 1+2 or 2. Because of this lack of 50/50s and fake pressure, she's actually best played defensively, and not as a rushdown, or at least if not defensively, just not like a psycho like with Nina and Alissa.
So overall I think a lot of the dlc complaints are sort of built off an incorrect assumption, because even if we say Eddy is a stance rushdown 50/50 machine (one of the worst characters despite this), Lidia absolutely isn't, meaning they arent "homogenizing the roster" like some people try to pretend like they are
It's a shame they turned every character into a 50/50 mix character. One of the reasons I enjoyed playing so many characters in T8 were the fact they made me learn how to play in a different way.
I just hope he will be fun to play the way I wanna play. But definitely you will need to go unga bunga if you want to win.
so hei has just frame negative edge now
Fighting games are too obsessed with making it very easy to run offense.
The more I play T8 and the more I learn, the less I like the game..
Stopped playing a few months back even thou i played T7 nonstop, and even T8 at the beginning. But I HATE this slow machine playstyle that everyone has
When I first started Tekken 8 and think of stances, I expected stuff like Xiaoyu, Yoshimitsu, Hwaorang, where stances were another set of neutral options you could play with that excel in different scenarios.
With the new DLC stance pressure playstyle, I actually feel like I have less options in neutral, because suddenly I do a move that enters an unsafe stance, and I give up all my pressure not knowing what moves come out of it. Versus being able to enter a stance manually and staying there to explore my options.
Eddy was the biggest offender of this for me. For capoeira being so focused on unpredictable evasive movements, why doesn't his stances play like xiaoyu's or lili's? Why can't you stay in negativa and move around to evade highs, or cartwheel as an advanced sidestep?
37:45 I agree! I think when everyone has all the tools in the toolbox it will be more difficult to build a unique toolbox or in this case character. I think they will have to take away stuff because they can't keep adding stuff all the time.
There's a video of the full hei move list and we learn that he's even more broken than you might think bcs :
- Chrome dome (f1+2) is still a i12 high but leaves the opponent -14 crouching so he can either do b1,4 (i14 mid,mid 36 dmg +7 knockdown in front of you) or df4,2 (i13 mid,mid 33dmg wallsplat) but he can also funnily enough just launch you with twin piston in warrior's instinct (12f launcher lol)
- He has a i15 string like Lydia's political storm which does 44 damage so f4 on crouching opponents will do way more dmg than regular df1,2. It also has a blue spark version but we don't see it.
- b4 is a CH launcher
- b3 is a i14 tracking high with both high and mid extension which are natural combos (the mid extension gives a oki)
- You didn't mention it but all his just release moves heals him even on block
- 1,1,2 does 31 dmg in War Instinct...
So overall his defensive options will also be insane
(I'm still not sure but if f4 on crouching opponent is +15, and he can transition into stance, can't he just launch you with the mid electric without warrior instinct)
I really dislike that in modern internet culture, if you talk positively about something you’re a shill and if you talk negatively about something you’re a hater or something of the sort.
Hyped for hei I hope he still plays a bit like legacy heihachi with some new stance pressure.
I mained Hei for the entirety of T7 and was really hoping he could represent a style closer to classic Tekken, considering how iconic he is as an old Tekken character - so seeing all the new stuff is definitely a little disappointing in that way. I'm sure I'll still enjoy playing him, but the way his new design is so heavily centered around these (seemingly obviously overtuned?) stances, makes me feel like they'll just nerf it all after a while, and I'll just have to figure out a way to make him work after that.
Why do we need so many aggressive stances? Why can't we have aggressive neutral? Miguel is my main and your comment near the end did make we worried because a lot of this stance pressure is similar to him, but more narrow in a 50/50.
I find his stances are too similar to Lidia's. That being said, I don't feel like his stances add much of anything.
I am really disappointed with what they did to him in regards to stances. The rest looks cool and fun though, and I am excited to see how his install plays out.
Fighting games are weird bc when they introduce new characters the player doesn’t just get to play as them, they have to fight them as well. So if they’re too strong or annoying to fight against players get upset, but if they’re boring or weak, players still get upset.
I have stances that you have to know a ton of specific shit to counter. It's always unintuitive and feels cheap as fuck.
criminal that you didn’t get invited to play heihachi
I'm glad they didn't. It's better to not be connected to the company you are critiquing.
He's a Noctis main 😂.
Wtf who tells you to think dat
@@IlCremo honestly very fair critique mate! Have a good one
What’s criminal is all of the fucking cry babies calling him a shill because their fragile egos can’t handle losing matches so they call the game bad
my stomach hurts when i see all this.
going back to Tekken 6, i noticed how much more fun and straightforward the game used to be.
kind of sad.
yeah this is ass. So glad I dropped tekken for +R and bb after seeing what 8 was gonna be like.
Love you phi. it’s so sad that tekken player are never happy even when developers listen to them
If we even want to criticize we also need to appreciate for the good things they do
So Heihachi is still the Heihachi we’ve known with some new stances, but he gets a once-per-round install that negates the majority of his weaknesses 💀
Great! More casino gameplay!
I just love that his lightning effects are orange this time around! Makes him a bit unique!
You know its actually concerning when Phi looks at you like this 0:00
kind of reminds me of gothamchess lmao
I like the new direction. Heihachi needed a new identity, because he felt like an after though in 7
Heihachi = Dragunov 2.0/ Phoenix
They dumb down Hei and gave him some new BS 50/50 tools...
An unblockable high is a low that can’t be low crushed 😂
Man he not even supposed to be in this game ima take him however I get him
I miss tekken..t8 isnt tekken, its almost a party game now..
gameplay balance aside .... a see they have a template for dlcs
raijin stance from that op b2 is absolutely unacceptable. I remember back in T7 1,b2 was already one of the strongest strings in the game without all these.
I'd say nerf the sh out of him, I'm talking leroy treatment, but leave him op in warrior instinct, leave the non-staggering hellsweep too lol it's hilarious.
(Also give us back the -1 on block df1?)
Nope
It's crazy to be called a shill when you like something, even if it's just quality of life or some shit. Damned if you say something nice, Damned if you say something bad, and Damned if you say nothing at all. This is the TRUE content creator casino. Oh, I also can't wait to stare at Nina on the menu screen. 👍
Oh well better than fighting lidia and lili non stop
Get ready to get cooked fellas 😅😂
We will only truly know when he is playable.
Calling it right now, Heihachi is gonna be top tier.
No way
bold claim
mishimas are often top tier in the past
Nope.
I agree. S tier easy man
Wait so AOP going to be good against him
Heihachi should've stayed dead. He looks way too overtuned.
Me when rushdown stance character
In a week I will have a close 2-2 round game vs Heihachi. As the fifth round starts I might as well put my hands up since they are are just going heat and Ultimate style and beat me is 20 secs no matter what I do.
called bro a shill😂 not cool
Yeah bring Lei! 🤩👍
Tekken is getting boring with every character being stance rushdown. The skillful artistry is all gone.
Bummer
phi you okay man, looks like you need some rest
go easy on yourself
Eh maybe it's just allergy
Rest?
In this economy?
I want less. Everyone having advancing mids and there weaknesses addressed makes me want to play t7 when characters were more unique.
The devil is in the details with this. The new stances are good, and the Super Heihachi mechanic is an extra heat bar that doesn't run out in the round it's used in. Still doesn't negate the fact that Kazuya has been left behind in this game.
I don't understand why Heihachi and Jin can go from stance into Electric but Kazuya can't from 3,1 DF, also i think Reina can't get EWGF from HW DF, a bit inconsistent
He looks very cool with alot of love put into his return.
However.
The strength and accessibility of Heihachi, really makes me look at certain characters in the current roster and think: Why?
Getting called a shill for being excited about the state of the game is such a Tekken experience lmao.
I was skeptical at first but I'm pretty excited for Heihachi. If any Mishima was ever going to be absolutely filthy in T8, it would be the hyper aggressive grandad. I just hope its balanced, we dont need another Dragunov meta situation.
Also, Heihachi saying "Ashii" late sucks. The concept of him being so arrogant and powerful that he actively directs you towards his attacks, and that have mechnanical relevance was amazing.
Edit,: Stances, decent lows, no execution electric and an FC 15f launcher that negates his need for electric execution on crouch... He's gotten the Jin treatment of patching his weaknesses without notable nerfs thanks to new moves/properties outweighing any nerfs to prior core tools. Genuinely sad to see as it homogenises the character imho. Flaws breed creativity and T8 is adverse to flaws it seems. Boo hiss.
2nd edit: Bruh it just keeps getting worse. Like he sounds amazing to pilot and is as strong as you'd expect in lore, but he seems so unjustifiably obnoxious to VS on paper.
I feel you man. Im still sad to what they did to Jin
ik it won't happen but they gotta just remove Warrior Instinct. It has no place on him and is blatant power boosting
HoW DarE yOu be happy for positive changes in a game you enjoy and how dare i agree with you!
iron grandpa lookin' sick asf can't wait to get my hands on him
heraing you use "otg" and "install" for the first time when talking about tekken was somehow wholesome lol
There's many other kinds of 'resource' mechanics they could add that aren't these install mechanics, though I don't know if tekken players want that kind of full shenanigan. Even still, I don't think that kind of thing is very important to sales, I think what matters is that people feel like a character has identity and does cool powerful stuff. This is why something like labcoat 21 released deliberately OP in the way that heihachi seems to be for tekken, to feel powerful. For eddy and lidia I think they still had great identity, probably because eddy is a legacy character that plays in a unique way and lidia just wasn't eddy. Hei really is a shift in this way, and a point to mark where the devs might go off the deep end and forget to make characters that have gameplay identities
The trick, though, is that this won't affect Heihachi's DLC numbers, it'll *maybe* affect DLC 4, but it will definitely affect season 2 if DLC 4 follows the trend. They have to understand that now if they want to stop the DLC sales from tanking imo. (reason being is that most people aren't going to make wide judgements about a character from a trailer, so the majority of people will still buy the characters until they try them out and see "wow, actually, this is kind of samey and boring" and then stop buying DLC. I know it doesn't feel like that since the dedicated tekken community makes wildly committal judgements about a character from even like, 30 seconds of footage, but the majority of the audience is most likely the polar opposite.)
I really appreciate how indepth this breakdown is because I heard about Heihachi install but had no clue exactly what was different.
Brother, don't listen to people saying stuff like "shill". I see it on all my favorite successful creators. If there isn't a complex or meaningful criticism, just scroll past it. Your content is detailed, thoughtful, and consistent; and I really appreciate the work you put in. Also, can we note that the T7 clip is the reason why the Tekken team went in a new direction.
I'm wondering... If f4 without crouching was +7 with stance and without stance meaning if you hit your opponent when they're crouching then FUJ 2 should be guaranteed because you get +15 and FUJ 2 is i15. No need for WI df2,1 to launch
It's a shame. Now they even deny people who don't wanna spend money for the season pass the new arena. What a joke Namco has become. I WILL NOT PAY FOR THAT!
I get everyones concerens but we had the characters with simular styles and movments for years being the mishimas there at the core of tekken . I find it intresting we get 3 stance character one which has always had stances for years so im not counting eddy and all of a sudden its a problem . I mean after dealing with drag all this time and other bs id rather deal with hei
The 4th DLC character will be a guest character. That's what'll reset the install theme so that Tekken Project can focus on new or no mechanics for the season 2 DLC.
He looks less calm, collected and oppressive compared to t7 and I loved that quality of his and it’s why he was my main.
The t8 version looks a bit like a street fighter character with the quick sudden movement animations.
I had stopped playing t8 but as soon as he was announced, I knew I would be back when he releases 😂
my only problem with heihachi is they are continuing this "sped up animation" thing. it's really annoying.
and Phi you don't have to explain yourself to mf's. people find any hill to die on for any reason.
do they think the casino game play is "predictive gameplay"?? like i'm supposed to know and guess the rock paper scissors and pre-emptively act on my guess?
As a past lodia main. Just mash on hei and those stances won’t be a problem
Heihachi is going to be really scary? It was a good idea to split the two video to have this one only to the character, if you can, you should continu for next dlc character ^^
Demon Paw Style Attacks (ff input, long range, safe KND mids, under i20f) that aren't heat engagers: Lars ff1+2, Jin ff4, Zafina ff4, Leo ff2, Lili ff3+4, Raven ff2 (Only punishable against the wall, lots of pushback otherwise)