@@RED_XLRThat's the reason why gacha is marketable the dopamine hit so good your senses dulled but take that gambling aspect and you'll start to have a post nut clarity. I literally can't with this opinions 🤦, opinions are fine but it takes certain talent and thought if you laid a flawed opinion but reasonable one that can open to discussion that encourages more thinking.
Fire Emblem games usually have permanent death. The reason there are 40-50+ characters is that the game expects some of them to die, and you'll need replacements while also encouraging replayability and subsequent playthroughs. Fire Emblem Thracia 776 has like 52 characters, and I consistently used about 25-30 of them in a single playthrough past the early game.
though doesn't fire emblem disincentivize character death? esp recently with turn rollback (and ever since the good ol days of save-scumming), there is almost no reason to not avoid death and protect all your units, even if it means a slower playthrough with a more defensive playstyle. the reward for risking a death is so minimal, but the amount of story content lost with each character death is so much more. I personally think I wouldn't mind character death if it opens up more story options related to grief (perhaps with other characters), or if it made character deaths/sendoffs/retirement much more meaningful, like in the game Pyre by Supergiant (not turn based but please get the point) ive had people tell me that save-scumming is part of the normal experience with the older fire emblem games i was playing, and others criticize me for not letting due nature take its course. maybe that is why ive gravitated more to turn based rougelikes instead, where death is almost never a problem, and the story can still be written quite well. PS kinda offtopic but i would like to recommend Radiant Historia to anyone reading, its a fun and short turn based RPG with a small lovable cast of characters and a combat system I absolutely enjoy. It kinda prevents you from being overwhelmed by too many characters too early by making only specific characters accessible on separate timelines (yeah there are a lot of wonky time travel shenanigans) as like a test run/tutorial before having those new characters meet others.
@@kevinxiao8400 The thing with the latest game, Engage, is that it's meant to be a love-letter for the fans. FE fanservice basically. It doesn't really improve 3H's drawbacks and mostly feels like a modern FE with certain mechanics that feel similar to how the earlier games were.
@@azuree9176 yeah the new main mechanic makes it certainly feel fanservicey, some of the interactions are cool as hell, but the whole defensive playstyle as a whole has been a thing since forever, made even weirder with the rollback mechanic in 3H. The developers clearly don't want any units to die its like applying patches to the permadeath mechanic that the dev don't want casuals players to experience. Is permadeath even a good gameplay mechanic these days? Many games that say they have permadeath really just have incremental value from death, like a sacrifice to gain something. i can't see why permadeath incentivizes any replayability at all, unless its implemented where the deaths actually change the course of the game's story even having a permadeath nuzlocke in pokemon is not really replayable by the permadeath, but the random nature of acquiring pokermon
You know Garnt, you don’t have to listen to the guides. In Trails, you can build the characters however you want and you can clear all the content with any build or team.
He and Joey Whine about many characters made them confused and made fun of tier list... when Garnt play Gacha games like HSR to PULL SOME CHARACTERS and guess what? somebody will make a tier list of HSR characters too. It's really just a skill issue..
I think he has the optimization problem some gamers have, often those are the ones who makes the biggest stink like they absolutely have to engage with the system everytime at the max level.
I love turn-based games that allow you to interfere with turn order in some way. Trails and SMT-Persona are my favorites, but there are others that achieve a similar effect.
If you like to strategically interfere with turn order play Octopath Traveler that game can let you interfere with turn order in 2 ways, exploiting enemies weaknesses or using a skill to make the enemy go last the next turn, that skill is only learnt by the hunter class
Persona 5 had personally peak RPG combat design. The battles are designed to be over quickly but doesn’t make it feel unrewarding for doing that, you can catch the enemy off guard and if you plan right you can wipe out almost any enemy you encounter before they can make an attack. The atmosphere also gets you in that mindset of being this stealthy badass that would wipe out an encounter with no damage done to you. Even boss fights add special actions you can take that take genuine planning to pull off to give you that same badass feeling even if you can’t wipe the floor with them.
>Joey looks at Tier list >saw most of the characters he likes are low tier >said "Fck this tier list" >didn't say anything that the game was impossible with low tier characters >Garnt still didn't realize that optimizing isn't required to play the game Optimizing is just to make the game easier and you don't need to do it unless you're stuck at a certain part
yup just like warframe,yes you can max out primed bane mods to eradicate everyone of that faction.... but until a few thousand levels in, you'll never need that damage. besides then that build is essentially useless vs other factions.
Just because a RPG has optiomal builds it doesnt mean you HAVE to look up a guide to get that build esepcially if you're doing it blind. The games are designed around regular classes and builds that the games nudge you towards when you play the game for the first time. Optimal build stuff is for like post game shenanigans and second playthroughs.
It depends on the difficulty that you are playing and the game itself. Pathfinder WOTR on the highest difficulty is impossible if you don't optimize to the max everything...even on hard or harder difficulty, players struggle after the first 200hrs of the campaing if they didn't build "right" at least a couple of characters in your party. Then you have other games like Divinity Original Sin 2 that are way more casual and simplify, so even thou you are playing on the highest difficulty with all the modifiers on...the game is still fair if you are not build "right"
SMTV made me love Megaten's Press Turn System, it's so satisfying hitting crits or weaknesses and getting more opportunities to dunk on the enemy It's now one of my favorite JRPG combat systems
Joey , Fire Emblem Engage is the game with the 3rd smallest playable cast in the series , most FE games have a playable cast of 40 to 50+ characters , the reason why you feel the game is overcomplicated is that every character in the game can equip an emblem or bond ring , each coming a veriety of unique skills , and every characters can also reclass into 50 different classes
Also he and Garnt can realize that they don't need to optimize anything since they're not playing the highest difficulty. Almost anything goes with a casual run XD
I find that games with the perfect system/difficult/learning curve are usually ones that strike the balance between: Freedom of expression - The player is able to play the way they want while always having "some" viable way to succeed/clear the game. Game mechanics that are easy to learn, but have depth if a player chooses to prep for. There should be room to optimize, but are overall not absolutely necessary (unless challenged set by the player).
Smt Press Turn system and Persona's One More system is just amazing. I also wish more JRPG would incorporate button layout menu like P5 instead of the usual excel sheet.
SMT's press turn system is literal peak turn based combat in my eyes. If you liked Persona 5's combat you will 100% love SMT's combat. Note: SMT 3 was the first game that introduces the press turn system so 1 and 2 don't have it.
Sekiro's combat is the best ever. The line between offense and defense is so blurred that no matter what action you do, it feels like you're making progress. Attack pressures enemies to block while Blocking/Delfecting weakens enemies stances until they're vulnerable enough to be Deathblown. For once, blocking actually feels proactive and aggressive as opposed to being usually passive and defensive. There's also the amazing Perilous Attack system in which the player has to counter specific attacks in specific ways. For Thrust Attacks, you either have to straffe around the attack, perform a perfect Deflect, or step on the attack using the Mikiri Counter. As for low-hanging Sweep Attacks, you have to jump over them which are perfect opportunities for jump attacks that are both offensive and defensive in this case. Not only does this make Sekiro's combat feel difficult in a digestible way, but also dance-like.
I feel like Monster hunter's combat is my favorite because it feels like a dance between the player and the enemy constantly trying to 1 up each other, and even when some monsters seem too difficult when you finally beat them it feels immensely satisfying as a result and then you can craft their armor, weapons making you stronger to fight stronger monsters thus for me personally creating an almost perfect gameplay loop that I've never gotten sick of for years.
Beat-em-up, hack and slash, and real time rpg combat like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, MGSR, and Kingdom Hearts are my favorite types of combat. Let me move around and attack when I want, is always perfect for me.
Love trails and coming up with my own builds which do something it's half the reason I love it, chronos spells and stuff like that tend to get busted. But really don't worry too much about optimization, the game isnt that harsh and that's coming from somebody who plays mostly on hard and one on nightmare
9:38 I think Connor just loves high stakes games while Garnt prefers games where he gets to choose what time he wants to engage the more difficult challenges.
This is why ps5 wants ai to change game on the fly to make sure people don’t get mad at a game. Can’t otherwise cater to everyone so always someone crying a game is trash cause they weren’t willing to engage with it. We’ll see how it goes.
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door is another game that hits the prep-time to play time sweet zone. Part of the reason is that while you can get up to 8 party members (counting Mario) only Mario is customizable, whereas all the other characters have specific moves that make them good in certain situations
I think Xenoblade Chronicles is a great example of a great combat system with characters you actually want to play as. Personally, it's my favorite game of all time.
For me Final Fantasy 12 on Playstation 2 back in the days was the best form of turn-base could ever be, playing and moving a character while strategizing the use and timing of character skill, it feels more satisfying and less boring rather than staring a standing still character waiting their turn to attack, imagine if star rail implemented this gameplay, oh man that would be so cool
I'm kind of surprised Garnt dislikes Trails because of the character customization or "complexity", like he hasn't even gotten to Cold Steel where you've got 51 playable characters, way more variety of arts, crafts, brave orders, etc. In FC/SC there's a dozen playables, and they've all got pretty similar playstyles. Turn down the difficulty and just build however you like, there's so much broken stuff that through trial and error you'll find what works and exploit it.
A good example of story being improperly provided through a game is the Destiny franchise. Their story is so expansive and detailed, yet they tell it through either walls of texts or conversations while mindlessly playing a story mission. The cutscenes are incredible choreographed and detailed, but you can’t easily follow what happens in the cutscenes since you can’t take in the story while naturally playing.
I relate a lot to why Garnt doesn’t do Nuzlocks. like, why would I want to go through the effort of trying to have fun with a game that I don’t really like when I can just play a game that I know I’ll actually like.
Smt's press turn system, strange journey's demon co-op system and that's not even mentioning how fun and engaging the customization is with the demon fusion and smt v and 4 style of customization for the main character really is.
A big problem with the FE community and tier lists is either A. They're filled with pure bias or B. They're ONLY for optimal play. Tier lists as a whole are opinionated but when it comes to FE most lists are made by those who play things like Low Turn count runs or other challenges. Half the time in games the pros say to just use like 1-3 units only which is possible but takes the fun out fo the game imo
B is a made up problem. Its like saying the problem with cars is that they drive. Pros say to use 1-3 units in the context of optimal play, they dont say its the optimal way to have fun for everyone. Very poorly worded.
The issue with Fire Emblem discourse is that it's simultaneously an RPG and a strategy game. There are the Joey's with their cute girls team and the hardcore strategy gamers who just see their units as assets. It's not possible to strike a balance between these 2 sides of the fanbase in something like a tier list. However for whatever reason it seems to be a constant issue for one side that the material exists for the other side. Why is Joey looking up a hardcore strategy tier list when all he wants to do is funny silly things.
I genuinely believe that fighting games style combat (tag team, traditional, MVC1-styled assists and platform fighters) and beat 'em up style games style combat like DMC, GOW and P5S (if you count it) are peak combat. Especially if you go with a full Glass Cannon build/character.
Decir que los fighting games tienen el mejor sistema de combate es trampa xD, osea, es la verdad, pero es que esos juegos basan en profundos y unicos estilos de combate en cada personaje y como juego, para que puedas casarte con los movesets de algunos personajes. Para mí, exceptuando los fighting games, monster hunter tiene de uno de los mejores sistemas de combate que haya visto jamás.
Doom eternal's combat is bananas, makes my chest hair grow and i just don't want it to slow down EVER. Yeah, when it comes to raw battle fervor nothing can beat it.
I concur with Joey. I play the characters/class that interests me over what is considered meta/optimal. Back when I played WoW in Legion I picked talents that were cool to use and see which meant my damage wasn't as high as it could have been but I was having a blast which has become way more important to me than striving to be the best I can be at what I'm doing in a game.
That's why I love Shining Force. When I tried Fire Emblem Heroes, there were lots of characters, events, battles, lots of stuff on the screen and battle system is a bit complex. Shining Force is much simpler but still fun and the characters are actually unique
I’m dead. If you play fire emblem engage on the highest difficulty you have to use meta but aside from that it is one of the most flexible fire emblems ever. The ability to use emblems is why you can basically use who you want on easier difficulties!
All this talk about Turn Based Combat kinda reminds me of the time when I was watching a video about Yiik (The bad RPG game with complex Turn Based Combat) in which that video describes how complicated that combat system of that game.
Hearing them complain on optimization ruining the game experience is so painful my god all game does not required it you can still play it normally optimazation is just make it easier
I recommend gamers to play TLOU but non gamers to watch it, having played it go much more attached to the characters since i spent like 20+ hours with them compared to only 9, though most things were done better in the show, spoilers How Joel gets injured during the game makes a lot more sense and has bigger impact to me
i like that the boys talking about wanting turn based to punish you while praising persona and liking it so much, are not paying attention to the series from the same creators, mainline smt series that actually punishes you instead of what persona never does
Garnt only played vanilla P5 and Joey I think has played 3 and 4... I think? But he never brings it up in a way that makes it sound like he played them at all so they have no idea how easy P5R is, at least in 3 and 4 you die from SOMETHING lol.
They should really try Library of Ruina. Absolutely fantastic game. But for a ton of battles if you don’t have the correct build and types of damage, you WILL lose. You almost have to focus as much on builds and customization as combat. The whole combat system is super complex, challenging, and fun. Then you hit the Abnormality battles and what they require, ohhhh boy.
The golden standard for team combat in videogames for me is Chrono Trigger. You always play in a party of 3 and every character has a basic set of skills and magic is limited to a simple 3 tier system. The depth of the combat system comes from your ability to combine skills with your party members for more powerful, in double techs and triple techs. Another layer is that certain attacks only hit enemies in a certain area, and even though you are stationary, the movement of your enemies might make it more optimal to wait for a bit to use your skills to hit multiple enemies instead of a single enemy. Combining different party members for different double and triple techs creates a simple but incredibly rich combat system I have rarely seen since.
I think when it comes to combat systems it's less about the goldilocks zone on the level of complicatedness, or level of challenge or not, but more so, how the game can create a combat system that stays super fun, immersive and entertaining across the entire length of game. I feel like you can make any game overly complicated by diving into "optimal builds" and set-ups, but rarely is genuinely necessary to do so. The vast majority games are made so you can beat them without playing optimally and knowing the exact in's and out's of the combat. Even in Persona for example, you could very easily dive into optimal gameplay via maxing social-links/confidants or, going for decked-out personas and optimizing your fusions. I think when games make their gameplay about the challenge/complexity, then in turn players tend to feel like they DO need to play optimally, beacuse there's simply not much else. Combat in games though should be about more than just this though. It goes without saying that there are so many games that are far too easy and offer little challenge. Or, games that feel too repetitive in their combat. Or, games that feel like they drag on. Or, games that just feel super plain in their combat system. The best combat systems aren't the best because of their complexity or difficulty but their ability to continue to feel unique, fun, innovative, immersive, etc. I think the reason why most people consider Persona 5, for instance, as such a great game, is not just bc it strikes a balance complexity/difficulty-wise, but because there's so much more to it's gameplay than the standard jrpg turn-based formula that's been done since the first Final Fantasy. There's huge varied areas and puzzles to absorb yourself in, special abilities to unlock, ways to break up the turn-order, showtimes to execute, a grappling hook, social-links that empower your team, a entire social-sim aspect to the game, and, so much more. There are so many games out there that are not-too complicated, not too difficulty or easy, not too many characters, etc, that are simply still not popular because they lack that level of uniqueness and fun that can keep a player engaged over the often 50+ hour journey it may take.
Like a Dragon 7 is one of my favorite turn based games. I completely understand why some people prefer the beat-em-up combat style of the earlier games. The games also have a great story and a lot of other things besides the combat that makes it fun and very entertaining. It's also one of the most Japanese games I have ever seen
I just recently played yakuza 0 and yakuza kiwami and it actually blew my mind how good the story is in those games. I am so invested it’s crazy. I had been wanting to try yakuza for awhile but there were so many games I felt kinda overwhelmed. Eventually I said screw it let me just start with 0 and I’ll give it a shot and I’m glad I did. Once I finally get there I’m excited to try like a dragon. I don’t like turn based as much as I do real time action combat but I like the way they did it in like a dragon from what I’ve seen it looks pretty cool
@@jeremyroberts8822 I love the story in Yakuza. You have a lot of games to play before the new one comes out at the end of the year. Then another new game early next year
My favorite turn based combat is the simple kind like FF9 and Dragon Quest while my favorite action combat is the satisfying type like Ghost of Tsushima, Devil May Cry, and the newer Yakuza games.
Fighting game combat is my faviroute, a human opponent is so dynamic it feels like playing speed chess, but combined with cathartic visuals, audio and controls of an action game
Honestly, I think the simplest, most widely known example of this whole topic is Pokemon. Yes, you can look up Pokemon, moves, and nature tierlists and catch perfect combos to optimize your team into this perfect engine that wallops every matchup. Or you can just power level your starter and a Pigdey and stomp everything up until the Elite Four with your overleveled stuff. I slapped them silly in Silver with a Lvl100 Alakazam and with an Ampharos in Diamond. And somewhere in between that lies the challenge runners who enact self-made rules to prevent either extreme, like perma-death, limited catches, and level caps. Well made strategy games will allow you to pick whatever and still have a good chance at winning. And if not, leveling is usually an option. Tierlists are for endgame and PvP where the Meta takes over. edit: guess I shouldn't have paused, they covered all my points a second after I paused to comment
For turn based, none will surpass SMT. The press turn system is just too good that both the player and enemies can take advantage of, its by far the hardest turnbased game, plus your party is constantly changing through demon recruitments. I think alot of turn based give way too much to the player while enemies are stuck doing the same thing throughout the game, its why Persona pales in comparision cause they give so much shit to the player. Octopath 2 is definitely 2nd best its job and break system is great and satisfying and its super boss is amazing and difficult
I really like character action games like devil may cry. I think what I like most about those games is that they have a lot of depth in their combat and are similar to fighting games in that it isn’t just button mashing. You can button mash if you like especially on the easier difficulties but if you wanna explore the combat in more depth you can do that and come up with some crazy stylish combos. Dmc 5 for example gives you so many weapons that it’s insane, Dante in that game can do so much and once you get a feel for it and start cycling through weapons mid combo it just feels satisfying to play IMO
Throne and Liberty came out recently and i find it’s the best one with the classes and abilities based on equipped weapon type game. It has just enough depth for me (wish there were a bit more spells) and the world is engaging as well as pretty. Movement is cool too not with a mount but a morph system and the collecting mounts experience is collecting morphs. I like it
I feel like if it’s too simple, then what’s the point of turn based combat? I get the impression that the best one from what I’ve heard was Final Fantasy V job system because it encourages trying out different classes, and it’s pretty balanced while also being challenging. I still need to play it tho.
For me it's putting every piece of armor on like even 4 character party, when you have the helmet, the body, the leggings, the gauntlets, the boots, the earrings, the amulet, and the rings. It feels like every character is a character in an mmo and i don't like that. Especially bad when you can upgrade each individual piece for some reason, making it more bloat. So it ends up feeling not complicated but just bloaty, like bloatware. It's bad imo, and not fun. That's not even mentioning the games that do that and have different jobs you can switch between and other shit. Like i'm ok with something like this in a game where you have only 1 character your character to use instead of a party of 4 or 8 like most turned based game. But yea that's what i think people mean by "complicated". They just want it to be complex but fun, not complex stat whoring and gear to the point it's not fun.
@@yemmohater2796 I dont know told you Pokemon is simple game. There are so many variables when you dive a little bit deeper, and still being accessible for casual players
@@KenBladehart true, but Pokemon games are never that hard enough for you to really dive that deep into the system. It's there for competitive tbh, so of course most people never going touch it.
persona 5 royal was my first ever turn based game and i loved it. i haven't played much of the other smt games besides devil survival 1 and nocturne but i enjoyed the combat systems there as well
I played BotW Master Mode only allowing myself to eat food while at a campfire, cooking pot, or inn and I've done the same in TotK and it's been a way better experience because of it. It did eventually get really annoying having to pull out a piece of wood and light it on fire every time, though, so I reduced the limitations to just no healing in combat. TBH I'm thinking of adjusting my rule again so that I can heal in combat but I have to charge up a regular sword attack to level 2 before I can open up my menu and I can only eat one thing each time. Sort of trying to recreate estus flasks in Dark Souls so there's some risk to trying to heal mid-combat. The lesson here is that making healing limited and risky is just something you need to do if you're gonna have slow-medium paced melee combat in your game. It just makes it better.
Garnt's entire process of optimizing his party is near worthless. Pretty much any half-competent build can get you through a Trails game, you don't need to do that shit.
When it comes to turn based there's nothing like shin megami tensei. That's the peak. Action combat is a bit more complicated tho. Cuz action could mean hack and slash or something like monster hunter which is basically a whole other genre by itself. But i'ma say dmc bayonetta and god hand are the peak of action combat excluding the more peculiar ones.
I’m not a fan of turn based combat and I usually stay away from it, but I have been playing HSR, I used to play Pokémon on my DS as a kid, and I had a blast playing through The Ruined King when that came out. My favorite thing about TRK was the lane mechanic, not because I’m a League player but it was cool to control the speed like that and use the same abilities differently.
Knowing they have pretty busy schedules outside gaming. Their points are reasonable. They just want to not think too much, play and have fun while still having that feels of nostalgia of what they used to play for countless of hours.
For a game with turn base combat, Darkest Dungeon comes to mind. You have different heroes with different abilities and abilities can only be done if you are in the correct postion.
You can basically ignore most of the customization in trails and just use the quartz you like the most, dont need to worry much, but you can totally break the game If want to optimize, in cold steel I was destroying bosses without even give them a turn
This may not be their wheelhouse, but in terms of vehicle combat, nothing beats the Burnout series in terms of making vehicle combat fun. On the surface it's basically taking your car and ramming your opponent's car off the road. But the execution or "takedowns" is a sandbox on it's own. You can either just grind the other guy against the guardrails till they hit a pole, or slam the guy into a traffic car, or into a building side, or jump on a ramp or elevated part of the track and fall on top of your opponent and score vertical takedowns, and etc. The game promotes quick thinking and aggressive driving as well as creativity in location spotting for takedowns.
Monster Hunter Sekiro God of War Final Fantasy VII Remake Devil May Cry when its all said and done these are the combat systems i enjoy and enjoyed the most in amongst 700+ games there are others who are similar and come close but these are the ones that impressed me the most
While I can appreciate Turn-based combat, I prefer Tales style combat system (Though I do have a bias for the more Fighting game-esque earlier titles like Abyss & Destiny R rather than something like Berseria and Arise)
Only played Tales of Berseria.... and I'm sorry but after like two boss fights and I think going to the third or fourth area I just had to stop. Have 16+ abilities to use in a wild and hard to target fight was a mess for me(plus idk if it is me or what but the camera I had to keep turning manually which was a real chore to do while trying to juggle a fight.)... plus the crafting killed me with how pointless it was when a better base weapon or item comes up like an hour later Dragon quest 9 was so much more my speed not just cause of the turn based
Artificial difficulty sometimes really fun, like when im really bored i play naruto storm but im not allowed to use subtitution, so no reset button if i messed up in neutral phase
I will take a game where I have to spend 2 hours of attempts trying to fight a difficult boss before I finally beat it over a game that is a casual cakewalk but if I screw up once I lose 10 hours of progress and start from the beginning.
14:00 I think they managed to do that a bit better in Last of Us 2 (one of the only things positive about that game IMO) is that the violence is so graphic a raw that it made me uncomfortable when playing it, and I started questioning what it was I was actually doing. The characters take longer to die and the sounds are more visceral, you hear people crying out in shock and horror when they find dead characters and even say their names, etc. Don't even get me started on the dogs. I had to use grenades and point black shots just to put them down so it wouldn't break my heart.
Even though i enjoy both styles i remember one day i was chilling playing samurai warriors 2 and my cousin seen me playing and was laughing and had me like yo you good he was like dude i can't believe you play that trash repetitive genre and i legit had to hold some words back because ain't no way someone that tells me warrior game's are repetitive when turn base is literally taking turns hitting each other
Man, higher complexity allows for greater player expression. It's only in a highly complex play space where multiple right answers can even exist. You don't always have to choose the single most optimal strat, you just need to find something that works for you and you enjoy, right? I don't see the enjoyment in literally just doing as I am told. At that point, just make the action a button you push and don't make it turn based? One of turn based's greatest advantages is that it can accommodate FAR more choices than real-time ever could without just making the game a hotkey nightmare.
Completely dependant on the device you're playing on and the input method you use. For me on PC with mouse and keyboard, the best form of video game combat I've played is Black Desert Online.
If you don't wanna look up tier lists and guides, then DON'T. Nobody and nothing is forcing you to. It's not the game's fault that you don't wanna engage with it.
The infuriating thing is the one and only time Pokemon included difficulty modes (Black2/White2) they made it so cumbersome to unlock. Can't set it straight away, need to beat the game once and get the "difficulty key" and then send that key to another game (and each game only unlocks one type of key - your friend might end up only giving you the easy key insfead of the hard key) - dont know what GameFreak was thinking adding difficulty modes in such a stupidly gated way.
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If they think the Fire Emblem Engage cast is too large, wait until they see that Radiant Dawn has like 73 playable characters 💀
It's crazy to hear that from gacha players tbh. People make no sense now a days.
Suikoden games have 108 characters each. Not all are usable for combat, but most are.
@@RED_XLRThat's the reason why gacha is marketable the dopamine hit so good your senses dulled but take that gambling aspect and you'll start to have a post nut clarity. I literally can't with this opinions 🤦, opinions are fine but it takes certain talent and thought if you laid a flawed opinion but reasonable one that can open to discussion that encourages more thinking.
@@RED_XLRwhen have these three NOT been hypocritical
@@RED_XLR tbf
I powered thru fgo by just using chu alt all till abby
So i undertsand
Fire Emblem games usually have permanent death. The reason there are 40-50+ characters is that the game expects some of them to die, and you'll need replacements while also encouraging replayability and subsequent playthroughs. Fire Emblem Thracia 776 has like 52 characters, and I consistently used about 25-30 of them in a single playthrough past the early game.
though doesn't fire emblem disincentivize character death? esp recently with turn rollback (and ever since the good ol days of save-scumming), there is almost no reason to not avoid death and protect all your units, even if it means a slower playthrough with a more defensive playstyle. the reward for risking a death is so minimal, but the amount of story content lost with each character death is so much more. I personally think I wouldn't mind character death if it opens up more story options related to grief (perhaps with other characters), or if it made character deaths/sendoffs/retirement much more meaningful, like in the game Pyre by Supergiant (not turn based but please get the point)
ive had people tell me that save-scumming is part of the normal experience with the older fire emblem games i was playing, and others criticize me for not letting due nature take its course. maybe that is why ive gravitated more to turn based rougelikes instead, where death is almost never a problem, and the story can still be written quite well.
PS kinda offtopic but i would like to recommend Radiant Historia to anyone reading, its a fun and short turn based RPG with a small lovable cast of characters and a combat system I absolutely enjoy. It kinda prevents you from being overwhelmed by too many characters too early by making only specific characters accessible on separate timelines (yeah there are a lot of wonky time travel shenanigans) as like a test run/tutorial before having those new characters meet others.
@@kevinxiao8400 The thing with the latest game, Engage, is that it's meant to be a love-letter for the fans. FE fanservice basically. It doesn't really improve 3H's drawbacks and mostly feels like a modern FE with certain mechanics that feel similar to how the earlier games were.
@@azuree9176 yeah the new main mechanic makes it certainly feel fanservicey, some of the interactions are cool as hell, but the whole defensive playstyle as a whole has been a thing since forever, made even weirder with the rollback mechanic in 3H. The developers clearly don't want any units to die
its like applying patches to the permadeath mechanic that the dev don't want casuals players to experience. Is permadeath even a good gameplay mechanic these days? Many games that say they have permadeath really just have incremental value from death, like a sacrifice to gain something.
i can't see why permadeath incentivizes any replayability at all, unless its implemented where the deaths actually change the course of the game's story
even having a permadeath nuzlocke in pokemon is not really replayable by the permadeath, but the random nature of acquiring pokermon
You know Garnt, you don’t have to listen to the guides. In Trails, you can build the characters however you want and you can clear all the content with any build or team.
Also he can easily play the game on easy mode so I think based off what he’s saying it’s a skill issue
i think he will enjoy the combat in the cold steel games more, it gets less complex there and even a little bit persona if you know what i mean
He and Joey Whine about many characters made them confused and made fun of tier list... when Garnt play Gacha games like HSR to PULL SOME CHARACTERS and guess what? somebody will make a tier list of HSR characters too.
It's really just a skill issue..
@@LeMrAlpaca That's true but they also add way too many characters, so he might still not like that, even if they are easier and persona-like
I think he has the optimization problem some gamers have, often those are the ones who makes the biggest stink like they absolutely have to engage with the system everytime at the max level.
I love turn-based games that allow you to interfere with turn order in some way. Trails and SMT-Persona are my favorites, but there are others that achieve a similar effect.
If you like to strategically interfere with turn order play Octopath Traveler that game can let you interfere with turn order in 2 ways, exploiting enemies weaknesses or using a skill to make the enemy go last the next turn, that skill is only learnt by the hunter class
Persona 5 had personally peak RPG combat design. The battles are designed to be over quickly but doesn’t make it feel unrewarding for doing that, you can catch the enemy off guard and if you plan right you can wipe out almost any enemy you encounter before they can make an attack. The atmosphere also gets you in that mindset of being this stealthy badass that would wipe out an encounter with no damage done to you. Even boss fights add special actions you can take that take genuine planning to pull off to give you that same badass feeling even if you can’t wipe the floor with them.
Honkai: Star rail
@@bach9759lol. Characters are locked behind paywall or 2months of saving no ty
And the gameplay is way too simple
@@imaginternet Another good recommendation would be Grandia too based off Octopath's gameplay.
>Joey looks at Tier list
>saw most of the characters he likes are low tier
>said "Fck this tier list"
>didn't say anything that the game was impossible with low tier characters
>Garnt still didn't realize that optimizing isn't required to play the game
Optimizing is just to make the game easier and you don't need to do it unless you're stuck at a certain part
yup just like warframe,yes you can max out primed bane mods to eradicate everyone of that faction.... but until a few thousand levels in, you'll never need that damage.
besides then that build is essentially useless vs other factions.
Just because a RPG has optiomal builds it doesnt mean you HAVE to look up a guide to get that build esepcially if you're doing it blind. The games are designed around regular classes and builds that the games nudge you towards when you play the game for the first time.
Optimal build stuff is for like post game shenanigans and second playthroughs.
It depends on the difficulty that you are playing and the game itself. Pathfinder WOTR on the highest difficulty is impossible if you don't optimize to the max everything...even on hard or harder difficulty, players struggle after the first 200hrs of the campaing if they didn't build "right" at least a couple of characters in your party. Then you have other games like Divinity Original Sin 2 that are way more casual and simplify, so even thou you are playing on the highest difficulty with all the modifiers on...the game is still fair if you are not build "right"
Depends on which game we're talking about. If you play shin megami tensei and you don't understand all the mechanics and build correctly= you're dead
Fear and Hunger 2 would love to know your location 😊
Devil may cry style combat. Styling on youre enemies is so satisfying
Nah, its just styleish, doesn t really feel all that great
@@dediualex3554 then you never played the game correctly
Dmc 5 was good but the other games felt clunky
@@fakerhex i did, But its pretty much Button mashing, and im bored of those type of games
@@dediualex3554Button mashing if you're on easy mode. But the hardest difficulty just one shots you
SMTV made me love Megaten's Press Turn System, it's so satisfying hitting crits or weaknesses and getting more opportunities to dunk on the enemy
It's now one of my favorite JRPG combat systems
Joey , Fire Emblem Engage is the game with the 3rd smallest playable cast in the series , most FE games have a playable cast of 40 to 50+ characters , the reason why you feel the game is overcomplicated is that every character in the game can equip an emblem or bond ring , each coming a veriety of unique skills , and every characters can also reclass into 50 different classes
He's probably only played three houses which gives you a set roster you're expected to use the whole playthrough.
Also he and Garnt can realize that they don't need to optimize anything since they're not playing the highest difficulty. Almost anything goes with a casual run XD
I find that games with the perfect system/difficult/learning curve are usually ones that strike the balance between:
Freedom of expression - The player is able to play the way they want while always having "some" viable way to succeed/clear the game.
Game mechanics that are easy to learn, but have depth if a player chooses to prep for.
There should be room to optimize, but are overall not absolutely necessary (unless challenged set by the player).
Smt Press Turn system and Persona's One More system is just amazing. I also wish more JRPG would incorporate button layout menu like P5 instead of the usual excel sheet.
SMT's press turn system is literal peak turn based combat in my eyes. If you liked Persona 5's combat you will 100% love SMT's combat.
Note: SMT 3 was the first game that introduces the press turn system so 1 and 2 don't have it.
based smt enjoyer
Smt's Press turn combat system is pretty much perfect for me
Agree it’s not too simple and not too complex.
**Beasts eye**
**Beasts eye**
Makakaja
Makakaja
**Beasts eye**
Makakaja
"There's no effect"
Megidolaon
@@a006deltaKino.
@@a006delta 3x Mots xD
Sekiro's combat is the best ever.
The line between offense and defense is so blurred that no matter what action you do, it feels like you're making progress.
Attack pressures enemies to block while Blocking/Delfecting weakens enemies stances until they're vulnerable enough to be Deathblown.
For once, blocking actually feels proactive and aggressive as opposed to being usually passive and defensive.
There's also the amazing Perilous Attack system in which the player has to counter specific attacks in specific ways.
For Thrust Attacks, you either have to straffe around the attack, perform a perfect Deflect, or step on the attack using the Mikiri Counter.
As for low-hanging Sweep Attacks, you have to jump over them which are perfect opportunities for jump attacks that are both offensive and defensive in this case.
Not only does this make Sekiro's combat feel difficult in a digestible way, but also dance-like.
Man, you're absolutely right, I loved how you described it.
Yeah it's one of the best for sure
I feel like Monster hunter's combat is my favorite because it feels like a dance between the player and the enemy constantly trying to 1 up each other, and even when some monsters seem too difficult when you finally beat them it feels immensely satisfying as a result and then you can craft their armor, weapons making you stronger to fight stronger monsters thus for me personally creating an almost perfect gameplay loop that I've never gotten sick of for years.
Beat-em-up, hack and slash, and real time rpg combat like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, MGSR, and Kingdom Hearts are my favorite types of combat. Let me move around and attack when I want, is always perfect for me.
Love trails and coming up with my own builds which do something it's half the reason I love it, chronos spells and stuff like that tend to get busted. But really don't worry too much about optimization, the game isnt that harsh and that's coming from somebody who plays mostly on hard and one on nightmare
Me straight up hard on first run , I agree with you. I don't do optimizations unless I want a perfect grade or want to carry bonuses on the sequel.
9:38 I think Connor just loves high stakes games while Garnt prefers games where he gets to choose what time he wants to engage the more difficult challenges.
This is why ps5 wants ai to change game on the fly to make sure people don’t get mad at a game. Can’t otherwise cater to everyone so always someone crying a game is trash cause they weren’t willing to engage with it. We’ll see how it goes.
@@nichescenes I barely know anything going on to consoles these years, so I don't know what you mean.
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door is another game that hits the prep-time to play time sweet zone. Part of the reason is that while you can get up to 8 party members (counting Mario) only Mario is customizable, whereas all the other characters have specific moves that make them good in certain situations
I haven't ever played thousand year door but I did play paper Mario 64 and as far as I know they are pretty much the same combat system
I think Xenoblade Chronicles is a great example of a great combat system with characters you actually want to play as. Personally, it's my favorite game of all time.
Strategy in xenoblade games depend completly on what party members and arts you happen to have. Feels really satisfying.
100%, xenoblade is still my favourite game and its great to see it get so much attention in recent years.
@@cypher838lorthia flashbacks
For me Final Fantasy 12 on Playstation 2 back in the days was the best form of turn-base could ever be, playing and moving a character while strategizing the use and timing of character skill, it feels more satisfying and less boring rather than staring a standing still character waiting their turn to attack, imagine if star rail implemented this gameplay, oh man that would be so cool
Damn, same here!
I'm kind of surprised Garnt dislikes Trails because of the character customization or "complexity", like he hasn't even gotten to Cold Steel where you've got 51 playable characters, way more variety of arts, crafts, brave orders, etc. In FC/SC there's a dozen playables, and they've all got pretty similar playstyles. Turn down the difficulty and just build however you like, there's so much broken stuff that through trial and error you'll find what works and exploit it.
A good example of story being improperly provided through a game is the Destiny franchise. Their story is so expansive and detailed, yet they tell it through either walls of texts or conversations while mindlessly playing a story mission. The cutscenes are incredible choreographed and detailed, but you can’t easily follow what happens in the cutscenes since you can’t take in the story while naturally playing.
I relate a lot to why Garnt doesn’t do Nuzlocks. like, why would I want to go through the effort of trying to have fun with a game that I don’t really like when I can just play a game that I know I’ll actually like.
Smt's press turn system, strange journey's demon co-op system and that's not even mentioning how fun and engaging the customization is with the demon fusion and smt v and 4 style of customization for the main character really is.
A big problem with the FE community and tier lists is either A. They're filled with pure bias or B. They're ONLY for optimal play.
Tier lists as a whole are opinionated but when it comes to FE most lists are made by those who play things like Low Turn count runs or other challenges.
Half the time in games the pros say to just use like 1-3 units only which is possible but takes the fun out fo the game imo
B is a made up problem. Its like saying the problem with cars is that they drive. Pros say to use 1-3 units in the context of optimal play, they dont say its the optimal way to have fun for everyone. Very poorly worded.
The issue with Fire Emblem discourse is that it's simultaneously an RPG and a strategy game. There are the Joey's with their cute girls team and the hardcore strategy gamers who just see their units as assets.
It's not possible to strike a balance between these 2 sides of the fanbase in something like a tier list. However for whatever reason it seems to be a constant issue for one side that the material exists for the other side. Why is Joey looking up a hardcore strategy tier list when all he wants to do is funny silly things.
I genuinely believe that fighting games style combat (tag team, traditional, MVC1-styled assists and platform fighters) and beat 'em up style games style combat like DMC, GOW and P5S (if you count it) are peak combat. Especially if you go with a full Glass Cannon build/character.
Decir que los fighting games tienen el mejor sistema de combate es trampa xD, osea, es la verdad, pero es que esos juegos basan en profundos y unicos estilos de combate en cada personaje y como juego, para que puedas casarte con los movesets de algunos personajes.
Para mí, exceptuando los fighting games, monster hunter tiene de uno de los mejores sistemas de combate que haya visto jamás.
@@Teko-san619 uh... English please?
@José Ramón Jiménez Vizcarra you're so right
"Pokemon is very simple"
Every VGC player:
Doom eternal's combat is bananas, makes my chest hair grow and i just don't want it to slow down EVER.
Yeah, when it comes to raw battle fervor nothing can beat it.
It similar to hades in that way.
I concur with Joey. I play the characters/class that interests me over what is considered meta/optimal. Back when I played WoW in Legion I picked talents that were cool to use and see which meant my damage wasn't as high as it could have been but I was having a blast which has become way more important to me than striving to be the best I can be at what I'm doing in a game.
That's why I love Shining Force. When I tried Fire Emblem Heroes, there were lots of characters, events, battles, lots of stuff on the screen and battle system is a bit complex. Shining Force is much simpler but still fun and the characters are actually unique
I’m dead. If you play fire emblem engage on the highest difficulty you have to use meta but aside from that it is one of the most flexible fire emblems ever. The ability to use emblems is why you can basically use who you want on easier difficulties!
All this talk about Turn Based Combat kinda reminds me of the time when I was watching a video about Yiik (The bad RPG game with complex Turn Based Combat) in which that video describes how complicated that combat system of that game.
Hearing them complain on optimization ruining the game experience is so painful my god all game does not required it you can still play it normally optimazation is just make it easier
I recommend gamers to play TLOU but non gamers to watch it, having played it go much more attached to the characters since i spent like 20+ hours with them compared to only 9, though most things were done better in the show, spoilers
How Joel gets injured during the game makes a lot more sense and has bigger impact to me
i like that the boys talking about wanting turn based to punish you while praising persona and liking it so much, are not paying attention to the series from the same creators, mainline smt series that actually punishes you instead of what persona never does
Garnt only played vanilla P5 and Joey I think has played 3 and 4... I think? But he never brings it up in a way that makes it sound like he played them at all so they have no idea how easy P5R is, at least in 3 and 4 you die from SOMETHING lol.
For real, SMT really punishes you for choosing the wrong skill or bringing the wrong demons
SMT is brutal.
@@yurikuki It is at start but you’ll get easily hang on it if you pay attention on the game mechanics…
The only thing thing they know about Persona is P5
They should really try Library of Ruina. Absolutely fantastic game. But for a ton of battles if you don’t have the correct build and types of damage, you WILL lose. You almost have to focus as much on builds and customization as combat. The whole combat system is super complex, challenging, and fun.
Then you hit the Abnormality battles and what they require, ohhhh boy.
I liked library of ruina but man it should be a case study of what not to do if you wanna make an accessable UI
The golden standard for team combat in videogames for me is Chrono Trigger. You always play in a party of 3 and every character has a basic set of skills and magic is limited to a simple 3 tier system. The depth of the combat system comes from your ability to combine skills with your party members for more powerful, in double techs and triple techs. Another layer is that certain attacks only hit enemies in a certain area, and even though you are stationary, the movement of your enemies might make it more optimal to wait for a bit to use your skills to hit multiple enemies instead of a single enemy. Combining different party members for different double and triple techs creates a simple but incredibly rich combat system I have rarely seen since.
I think when it comes to combat systems it's less about the goldilocks zone on the level of complicatedness, or level of challenge or not, but more so, how the game can create a combat system that stays super fun, immersive and entertaining across the entire length of game. I feel like you can make any game overly complicated by diving into "optimal builds" and set-ups, but rarely is genuinely necessary to do so. The vast majority games are made so you can beat them without playing optimally and knowing the exact in's and out's of the combat. Even in Persona for example, you could very easily dive into optimal gameplay via maxing social-links/confidants or, going for decked-out personas and optimizing your fusions.
I think when games make their gameplay about the challenge/complexity, then in turn players tend to feel like they DO need to play optimally, beacuse there's simply not much else. Combat in games though should be about more than just this though.
It goes without saying that there are so many games that are far too easy and offer little challenge. Or, games that feel too repetitive in their combat. Or, games that feel like they drag on. Or, games that just feel super plain in their combat system.
The best combat systems aren't the best because of their complexity or difficulty but their ability to continue to feel unique, fun, innovative, immersive, etc. I think the reason why most people consider Persona 5, for instance, as such a great game, is not just bc it strikes a balance complexity/difficulty-wise, but because there's so much more to it's gameplay than the standard jrpg turn-based formula that's been done since the first Final Fantasy. There's huge varied areas and puzzles to absorb yourself in, special abilities to unlock, ways to break up the turn-order, showtimes to execute, a grappling hook, social-links that empower your team, a entire social-sim aspect to the game, and, so much more. There are so many games out there that are not-too complicated, not too difficulty or easy, not too many characters, etc, that are simply still not popular because they lack that level of uniqueness and fun that can keep a player engaged over the often 50+ hour journey it may take.
Personas is cool because of how you need to balance the sim part to optimise the turn based part/the personas you get
The 1st 2 trails are a power trip, you only need at most 1 build... and a bunch of accessories to make sure you don't die
connor saying he needs stakes tells me he hasnt played any roguelikes/roguelites
He should play Hades if he hasn’t.
@@mr.umbreon3173 In an after dark stream, he mentioned that he played it.
Like a Dragon 7 is one of my favorite turn based games. I completely understand why some people prefer the beat-em-up combat style of the earlier games. The games also have a great story and a lot of other things besides the combat that makes it fun and very entertaining. It's also one of the most Japanese games I have ever seen
I just recently played yakuza 0 and yakuza kiwami and it actually blew my mind how good the story is in those games. I am so invested it’s crazy. I had been wanting to try yakuza for awhile but there were so many games I felt kinda overwhelmed. Eventually I said screw it let me just start with 0 and I’ll give it a shot and I’m glad I did. Once I finally get there I’m excited to try like a dragon. I don’t like turn based as much as I do real time action combat but I like the way they did it in like a dragon from what I’ve seen it looks pretty cool
@@jeremyroberts8822 I love the story in Yakuza. You have a lot of games to play before the new one comes out at the end of the year. Then another new game early next year
My favorite turn based combat is the simple kind like FF9 and Dragon Quest while my favorite action combat is the satisfying type like Ghost of Tsushima, Devil May Cry, and the newer Yakuza games.
WHERE ARE MY TRAILS MFS
Fighting game combat is my faviroute, a human opponent is so dynamic it feels like playing speed chess, but combined with cathartic visuals, audio and controls of an action game
Honestly, I think the simplest, most widely known example of this whole topic is Pokemon. Yes, you can look up Pokemon, moves, and nature tierlists and catch perfect combos to optimize your team into this perfect engine that wallops every matchup. Or you can just power level your starter and a Pigdey and stomp everything up until the Elite Four with your overleveled stuff. I slapped them silly in Silver with a Lvl100 Alakazam and with an Ampharos in Diamond.
And somewhere in between that lies the challenge runners who enact self-made rules to prevent either extreme, like perma-death, limited catches, and level caps. Well made strategy games will allow you to pick whatever and still have a good chance at winning. And if not, leveling is usually an option. Tierlists are for endgame and PvP where the Meta takes over.
edit: guess I shouldn't have paused, they covered all my points a second after I paused to comment
For turn based, none will surpass SMT. The press turn system is just too good that both the player and enemies can take advantage of, its by far the hardest turnbased game, plus your party is constantly changing through demon recruitments. I think alot of turn based give way too much to the player while enemies are stuck doing the same thing throughout the game, its why Persona pales in comparision cause they give so much shit to the player. Octopath 2 is definitely 2nd best its job and break system is great and satisfying and its super boss is amazing and difficult
SMT games spoiled me in terms of its turn based combat. Nocturne really did provide me a challenge when I played it.
I really like character action games like devil may cry. I think what I like most about those games is that they have a lot of depth in their combat and are similar to fighting games in that it isn’t just button mashing. You can button mash if you like especially on the easier difficulties but if you wanna explore the combat in more depth you can do that and come up with some crazy stylish combos. Dmc 5 for example gives you so many weapons that it’s insane, Dante in that game can do so much and once you get a feel for it and start cycling through weapons mid combo it just feels satisfying to play IMO
Throne and Liberty came out recently and i find it’s the best one with the classes and abilities based on equipped weapon type game. It has just enough depth for me (wish there were a bit more spells) and the world is engaging as well as pretty. Movement is cool too not with a mount but a morph system and the collecting mounts experience is collecting morphs. I like it
I feel like if it’s too simple, then what’s the point of turn based combat? I get the impression that the best one from what I’ve heard was Final Fantasy V job system because it encourages trying out different classes, and it’s pretty balanced while also being challenging. I still need to play it tho.
Simple =/= boring. Pokemon is simple but has a lot of potential for strategies (in rom hacks and competitive ;-;)
For me it's putting every piece of armor on like even 4 character party, when you have the helmet, the body, the leggings, the gauntlets, the boots, the earrings, the amulet, and the rings. It feels like every character is a character in an mmo and i don't like that. Especially bad when you can upgrade each individual piece for some reason, making it more bloat. So it ends up feeling not complicated but just bloaty, like bloatware. It's bad imo, and not fun. That's not even mentioning the games that do that and have different jobs you can switch between and other shit. Like i'm ok with something like this in a game where you have only 1 character your character to use instead of a party of 4 or 8 like most turned based game. But yea that's what i think people mean by "complicated". They just want it to be complex but fun, not complex stat whoring and gear to the point it's not fun.
@@yemmohater2796 that’s fair. I just think that if it’s too simple, that it would probably fit better in an action RPG than a turn based one.
@@yemmohater2796 I dont know told you Pokemon is simple game. There are so many variables when you dive a little bit deeper, and still being accessible for casual players
@@KenBladehart true, but Pokemon games are never that hard enough for you to really dive that deep into the system. It's there for competitive tbh, so of course most people never going touch it.
persona 5 royal was my first ever turn based game and i loved it. i haven't played much of the other smt games besides devil survival 1 and nocturne but i enjoyed the combat systems there as well
i cant play Turn-Based combat that isn't Press-Turn anymore
connor having one of his leg up the chair is very SEA coded of him lmfao
If Connor really despises turn based RPGs but enjoys strategy games, he would absolutely love Advance Wars Reboot Camp.
I played BotW Master Mode only allowing myself to eat food while at a campfire, cooking pot, or inn and I've done the same in TotK and it's been a way better experience because of it.
It did eventually get really annoying having to pull out a piece of wood and light it on fire every time, though, so I reduced the limitations to just no healing in combat. TBH I'm thinking of adjusting my rule again so that I can heal in combat but I have to charge up a regular sword attack to level 2 before I can open up my menu and I can only eat one thing each time. Sort of trying to recreate estus flasks in Dark Souls so there's some risk to trying to heal mid-combat.
The lesson here is that making healing limited and risky is just something you need to do if you're gonna have slow-medium paced melee combat in your game. It just makes it better.
Joey didnt talk about the real problem of fe engage which is having 40+ characters but usually only 10 character slots
Fire Emblem expects people to lose units on permadeath. My 1st FE 15 years ago: almost everyone I recruited got permadeathed by the end. 😅
@@digichu007 damn fe really does follow marth's dream
Garnt's entire process of optimizing his party is near worthless. Pretty much any half-competent build can get you through a Trails game, you don't need to do that shit.
Chrono Trigger have amazing combat
When it comes to turn based there's nothing like shin megami tensei. That's the peak.
Action combat is a bit more complicated tho. Cuz action could mean hack and slash or something like monster hunter which is basically a whole other genre by itself. But i'ma say dmc bayonetta and god hand are the peak of action combat excluding the more peculiar ones.
I’m not a fan of turn based combat and I usually stay away from it, but I have been playing HSR, I used to play Pokémon on my DS as a kid, and I had a blast playing through The Ruined King when that came out. My favorite thing about TRK was the lane mechanic, not because I’m a League player but it was cool to control the speed like that and use the same abilities differently.
This is what happens when you let a guide play for you instead of assisting you
Knowing they have pretty busy schedules outside gaming. Their points are reasonable. They just want to not think too much, play and have fun while still having that feels of nostalgia of what they used to play for countless of hours.
For a game with turn base combat, Darkest Dungeon comes to mind. You have different heroes with different abilities and abilities can only be done if you are in the correct postion.
You can basically ignore most of the customization in trails and just use the quartz you like the most, dont need to worry much, but you can totally break the game If want to optimize, in cold steel I was destroying bosses without even give them a turn
ff7r has a cool turn based action combat system i like. i also dont mind old school turn based from old era consoles. both can be fun
Once i got the taste of press turn system, i just cant go back, i can never play a turn base game anymore if a normal enemy cant one shot your ass
I wonder if garnt would enjoy octopath traveler
Somebody said Joey enjoy Octopath, so probably Garnt will enjoy aswell
for me its
1. SRPG
2. Souls like
3. Turn Based
I think Garnt will love Another Eden
This may not be their wheelhouse, but in terms of vehicle combat, nothing beats the Burnout series in terms of making vehicle combat fun. On the surface it's basically taking your car and ramming your opponent's car off the road. But the execution or "takedowns" is a sandbox on it's own. You can either just grind the other guy against the guardrails till they hit a pole, or slam the guy into a traffic car, or into a building side, or jump on a ramp or elevated part of the track and fall on top of your opponent and score vertical takedowns, and etc. The game promotes quick thinking and aggressive driving as well as creativity in location spotting for takedowns.
Your viewpoints and explanations were interesting and well thought out, gentlemen; cheers!
Uh, fighting games, right?
Lmao, underrated
Octopath seems to be good balance too imo
And underrated gems it is
I like the way FF7 remake did theirs. Combined real time combat with active turn based strategy.
I wish most people mention blue dragon such a good jrpg
Connor played it and said it was sh*t lol
Shadow Hearts had the best turn based combat imo. Goated game.
Monster Hunter
Sekiro
God of War
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Devil May Cry
when its all said and done these are the combat systems i enjoy and enjoyed the most in amongst 700+ games there are others who are similar and come close but these are the ones that impressed me the most
If Connor snorts a milkshake I’ll do a no-hit tlou perfect run
Fast-paced hack-and-slash/movement shooters, with a high skill ceiling and a ranking system. When it flops, it flops; when it hits, it hhhHHITS.
While I can appreciate Turn-based combat, I prefer Tales style combat system (Though I do have a bias for the more Fighting game-esque earlier titles like Abyss & Destiny R rather than something like Berseria and Arise)
You just prefer action based in a nutshell which is fine.
Only played Tales of Berseria.... and I'm sorry but after like two boss fights and I think going to the third or fourth area I just had to stop.
Have 16+ abilities to use in a wild and hard to target fight was a mess for me(plus idk if it is me or what but the camera I had to keep turning manually which was a real chore to do while trying to juggle a fight.)... plus the crafting killed me with how pointless it was when a better base weapon or item comes up like an hour later
Dragon quest 9 was so much more my speed not just cause of the turn based
@@joshuad3507 Berseria is probably one of the worst games in the series gameplay wise, its story carries it hard
Tales is cool, I got into the series last year and I enjoyed most of the games (except Arise and phantasia)
Artificial difficulty sometimes really fun, like when im really bored i play naruto storm but im not allowed to use subtitution, so no reset button if i messed up in neutral phase
If you want a challenge i would suggest Thracia 776 or final fantasy type 0
Wait Garnt actually took the plunge into the trails series?!?!
I will take a game where I have to spend 2 hours of attempts trying to fight a difficult boss before I finally beat it over a game that is a casual cakewalk but if I screw up once I lose 10 hours of progress and start from the beginning.
14:00 I think they managed to do that a bit better in Last of Us 2 (one of the only things positive about that game IMO) is that the violence is so graphic a raw that it made me uncomfortable when playing it, and I started questioning what it was I was actually doing. The characters take longer to die and the sounds are more visceral, you hear people crying out in shock and horror when they find dead characters and even say their names, etc. Don't even get me started on the dogs. I had to use grenades and point black shots just to put them down so it wouldn't break my heart.
Damn Garnt is going to have an issue when he gets to cold steel
I mean, Pokemon's difficulty is when you play against other people.....
I would love to be apart of an anime rating episode where I tell you guys about my “trash taste”
Even though i enjoy both styles i remember one day i was chilling playing samurai warriors 2 and my cousin seen me playing and was laughing and had me like yo you good he was like dude i can't believe you play that trash repetitive genre and i legit had to hold some words back because ain't no way someone that tells me warrior game's are repetitive when turn base is literally taking turns hitting each other
Honkai? Takes less time?
Brother you have no fkn idea!
Man, higher complexity allows for greater player expression. It's only in a highly complex play space where multiple right answers can even exist. You don't always have to choose the single most optimal strat, you just need to find something that works for you and you enjoy, right? I don't see the enjoyment in literally just doing as I am told.
At that point, just make the action a button you push and don't make it turn based? One of turn based's greatest advantages is that it can accommodate FAR more choices than real-time ever could without just making the game a hotkey nightmare.
Completely dependant on the device you're playing on and the input method you use. For me on PC with mouse and keyboard, the best form of video game combat I've played is Black Desert Online.
I would like to introduce Phantasy Star Online 2. A game released in 2013 and still dunk on these garbage Korean games
If you don't wanna look up tier lists and guides, then DON'T. Nobody and nothing is forcing you to. It's not the game's fault that you don't wanna engage with it.
Connor needs to discover Rogue Likes
Idk if it's better, I think the right term would be "more fun".
The infuriating thing is the one and only time Pokemon included difficulty modes (Black2/White2) they made it so cumbersome to unlock. Can't set it straight away, need to beat the game once and get the "difficulty key" and then send that key to another game (and each game only unlocks one type of key - your friend might end up only giving you the easy key insfead of the hard key) - dont know what GameFreak was thinking adding difficulty modes in such a stupidly gated way.
Divinity original sin is pretty much the only game/series with turn based combat I actually enjoyed
I hope they talk about Limbus Company. it's a great gacha game.
DMC, Monster hunter and souls series combat is peak for me