I Love my Mossberg Retrograde 590A1, and even my Mossberg Retrograde 500 that comes in at $500….. for the Quality it is a Fantastic 12 gage shotgun even for a first time shotgun Buyer. Lots of fun from both manufacturers by New owners or existing owners alike, that is a certainty. 🥳🤠👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 B9USA. Sr.
The only time I ever carried a shotgun in the Corps was when I was stationed in Iwakuni and while I walked guard duty around armories. I believe that they were Mossberg 500's if memory serves me correctly. They were loose as a goose! We carried them on a sling, muzzle up, slide open. In that position, you could reach back, grab the small of the stock and quickly rotate the gun forward with a sudden stop at hip level. The slide would fly home, chambering a round. It might sound kind of "cowboyish" but that was about the extent of our tactical training in 1973-1976. I can tell you this, when you performed that action when challenging someone "on or near" our post, it brought the individual to a complete stop. Seems that the sound of a "bolt" going home on a cool, crisp, dark, evening makes people's feet stop quickly. haha And, yes, I performed that maneuver several times with that very reaction coming to pass! One of the other detrimental things about the 870 is the price. They always seem to be proud of them..... ;)
The big reason the 870 is more expensive is because of that machined steel receiver. The 2-piece alloy receiver on the Mossberg costs less to produce. Great stories about Iwakini, by the way!
It's interesting hearing how often 12 gauge pumps get used in military and police. Thanks! Lots of people like to knock them, but they're hard to beat.
@@hrfunk Yes, really a pointless "upgrade" that does not do much else other than increase the weight and price of the gun, just for the sake of saying it's "all steel". Probably one of the reason Remington has been failing in the last 30 years. I've never heard of an aluminum receiver failing on an AR, a Mossberg shotgun, or any other gun for that matter. Most of the pressure is sustained by the bolt and barrel, they lock together and are both steel on all guns with aluminum receivers. Such a dumb moot point when people try and act like you're rolling the dice using a gun with an aluminum receiver...
I too, have a long (professional) relationship with the 870. I own multiple versions of the 870 & 500/590. But... I'm a Mossy fan all the way. Admittedly, the first thing I do when I get a new Mossy is replace the safety (if it's plastic). But that "looseness" in the forearm assembly is by design. That's a mud/sand/grit tolerance that's built in. The Mossy has a better shell elevator/lifter, and I've never hung a glove in the 590 while loading, like I have with 870. Also, the 590 has duel extractors, while the 870 has one (but it works), and a broken ejector is a "field fix" in the 590; it's an out-of-service gunsmith job for the 870. In the end, it's Ford vs Chevy. But both are very formidable weapons for anyone's collection, and I'd be comfortable defending myself with either one. "Thumbs up" from this Kentucky boy.
Thank you! I meant to mention the dual extractor on the 590A1 and I flat out FORGOT! Sorry about that. By the way, replacing a broken 870 extractor (which I’ve never seen, by the way) is about a 2 or 3 minute job for an armorer. It can probably be accomplished without even disassembling the shotgun. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
@@rimfirejunkie7427 I suspect it was actually the "ejector" that was damaged. Just FYI, if you ever run into that situation again, the shotgun will still function normally. You just have to work the action a little more briskly.
So… If the Mossberg 500 / 590 / 590 A1 is “inferior” due to the alloy receiver, then I’ll argue that all of your “AR” platforms and your beloved Benelli and Beretta automatics are equally inferior. That same logic would imply that all alloy framed automatic pistols are inferior. Action bars wearing in the receiver? I’m calling B.S. on this one. All parts will wear to each other within reason. Once they do, this is a moot point. I own more than a few Mossbergs. I have one with a high round count and can say with authority that there is no excessive wear from the action bars. The safety screw issue, on the other hand, is a little more plausible. I never experienced a screw backing out but have to admit that I have examined one that did. I still prefer the top tang safety over the trigger guard location. Mossberg got the bolt release location right, as well. I did not hear any mention of dual extractors V. single extractor. Yes, the Mossberg will function with only one. I’ve tried it for the sake of argument. I noticed there was no mention of the “staked” ejector versus a screw mounted ejector, but that bias doesn’t work in favor of the 870. I own 870s as well, one of which is a Wingmaster manufactured in 1958. The quality and craftsmanship is outstanding. It’s a shame that Remington cannot produce the same level of quality they once did. Remington still sells 870s based on a past reputation. It’s a shame they went bankrupt.
I prefer the crossbolt safety. Its just more intuitive for me, being a seasoned rabbit hunter (using remingtons and benellis). My 870 Express Super Mag has been rock solid. I am however in the market for a 590 because i believe every American should own both 😎
Best thing about both Remington 870 or the Mossberg 590/590a1 is there are tons of aftermarket upgrades for both shotguns. Oversize safeties, better forearms, upgraded springs, saddle shell carriers, metal trigger guards, heat shields, anti recoil buttstocks, optics rails, just be creative. For those that want a bayonet lug on your Remington 870 they are available from S&J Hardware, Ontario, Canada. S&J Hardware also makes a bayonet lug for Benelli M-4 shotguns. Very secure fit on both shotguns. Make sure you get a real M-9 bayonet. Ontario Knife Company makes a real M-9. No China made bayonets! Chinese bayonets quickly break.
Thanks for tip. I have always gravitated to the 870, but always wanted the bayonet lug like the 590a1 has. You know, for all the times you get into a bayonet fight. 😀. I may order one for my 870 P.
HR Funk. Well Sir all I can say is well done and yes you was FAR-ish (lol) but overall OUTSTANDING. During my 3 yr stent as a MSG we use the 870 and my later MOS we was issued the basic configuration Mossberg 590. At one of my duty stations we had a compliment of 590 and some 870's. Having grown up with both manufacturers shotguns I always gravitated towards the Mossberg. As you Illustrated both have strong points and weak points. As far as the Tang safety on the Mossberg I have heard of that issue, but I have never personally experienced it nor do I know anyone that has. As far as the length of pull on Mossberg they are generally 14 in LOP as Remington's are somewhere around the 13 3/4 inch LOP. One thing I would like to add sir is the barrel on the Mossberg 590 is a heavy wall Barrel that was specified by the department of the Navy in the initial specs for the platform. Reason being what's the cause of Navy boys can't help themselves banging barrels into the entryway aboard ship causing them to get dings in the barrel. You know those Navy boys they just really need to leave the fighting to us that's what we're here for. LOL..
Well, the Navy guys do like to bang their barrels! (Just kidding guys!). Thanks for a great comment Gunny. I’m glad you liked part-1. I think part-2 will be even better if I can ever get time to edit it and get it posted!
Dont laugh but the first shotgun I used in law enforcement was a Winchester Model 1897 20" that belonged to my partner, personal owned when riding with him before additional vehicles arrived ( single man units, no FTO program existed anywhere in U.S, FTO was what drunks saw in the sky at night...lookie there an FTO) Later we issued shotguns to individual deputies.( Instead of a common gun locker) These were 870 Remington 20" with bead sights, later rifle sight versions were issued. That was the primary shotgun issued and remains so to this day. Some held four rounds others had extended magazines. Even with slugs and bead sights on the 870 could hit 1/2 size metal poppers at 50 yards all day. I was/am a fan of the 870 it defended me well for 37 years. We eventually had M16A1 rifles but I let my people get those, I kept my shotgun (yes favor the rifle but benefit to my deputies). Never used a Mossberg never even owned one but from all reports it is an excellent weapon. I like the retro 590A1 with bayonet lug and heat shield, the weapon looks rather interesting.
Just searched it up and msrp on the manufacturer's website is almost $1k. Whats the difference between the retrograde and if i were to just install wood furniture and a heatshield on a 590a1?
I come from a hunting background. I don't have any law enforcement history and during my short time in the army I never touched a shotgun. With that in mind, my first shotgun as a kid was a Mossberg. Its been several decades since then and I've tried most of the common makes of shotguns since then. I've found that for me I have too many years of operating the safety with my thumb. My Mossbergs, several O/U shotguns, my favorite rifles, even handguns(that have a manual safety).... all of them use thumb operated safeties. When a bird flushes or a rabbit sprints by, my thumb does what it knows. I assume the same would hold true for two legged targets as well. I've missed out on several shot opportunities trying to get the safety off on other styles of shotguns while hunting. I don't want to take the chance of missing the one shot opportunity that saves my life in a self defense situation. This made me want to get out the old scattergun and bust some clays or take a walk in the woods. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks for the video friend.
The Mossberg 500a is the first firearm I ever purchased its more than thirty years old. A few years ago I purchased a 28" barrel and a standard stock. In case my autoloader ever malfunctions. My hunting days are over can't walk to far anymore. I spent 30 years in service. Usually one man in each squad carried a pistol grip shotgun to breach doors and such. I retired in 2009 so now I have time to shoot recreational again. It's a lot of fun. And the range i use is well run. Again thanks for your videos!
I'm a Mossberg guy all the way, my only problem I ever had was with the safety moving into the disengaged position on my 590A1, I switched to a raised safety switch and replaced the detenter ball, spring and block.
I'm a lefty and own 870 left hand and a mossy 500. I have always liked the tang safety better than the crossbolt safety. No offense to anyone but I believe that hole thing with the steal receiver being supior to the alloy is old school thinking. I believe in all practical uses a 500 or 590 will last as long as any 870 . It's logical to think otherwise because the 870 feels more solid but that's all. Mossy is just as durible. Of course this is based on my experience. I have owned many of both. Great video 👌
Thanks Funk for another well executed video. I like your delivery more and more with every entry. I own the exact 590A1 you show in this video. I also added a receiver shell mount to add 6 rounds of on board reserve. I'm not opposed to the 870, I just haven't found a reason to get one, given my current shotgun inventory. I added an M9 to mine just for affect. I like the look.
Both are strong well built shotguns that have stood the test of time. They do have their similarities and differences in controls layout and materials construction and quality like you mentioned. I personally prefer the 870 in general. I really dislike the ambidextrous safety on the Mossberg's and the full steel receivers and machined bolt and extractor on the 870 Police Magnum are my preference. Overall great video and comparison, I get you and everyone else are gonna have their biases but it was a great overall video either way. Good concise information and demonstration of their similarities and differences. Great content, and I appreciate you comparing the two! 👍
Curious how you found out the mossberg receiver is welded from two pieces. I have looked everywhere and can not find that written anywhere. Wouldn't doubt it but it looks machined from one peice.
@@markreagan2956 how could you beat something you didn't even test against? Remington never submitted a shotgun to those tests. Any shotgun could past those military tests its not like military standards are very hard.
Many years back I purchased a Mossberg 590. I got the cylinder bore with ghost ring sights AND the heat shield. I had to use a sheet of suede to protect the barrel when I worked the heat shield around the barrel (the ghost ring front sight prevented the shield from just sliding down the barrel). But it worked and it looks GREAT! Shoots great, too. My Mossberg has a 6+1 capacity.
What he failed to mention is this Remington 870P has a 18" barrel with only a +2 shot extension on it. The Mossberg 590A1 is a 20" model which has a longer magazine tube, that's the only reason they hold more. Remington 870P 20" models with a +3 shot extension will have the same round capacity.
I wouldn't trust anything Remington has produced post-Freedom Group...That being said, I've owned 3 Remington 870s and they've all been work horses. Love em.
Not to start a storm, but I just never use the safety on my 870. It is kept with hammer down on an empty chamber. This is easy to verify any time you pick the gun up.
I used the 870 and variants for 26 years in the Border Patrol. It is a sturdy, reliable, well made firearm...at least it used to before Freedom Group bought up Remington and a lot of other iconic brands. I would and have bet my life on it. It cycles very smoothly maybe a little bit better than the Mossie. That said I have two of Mossies, an 18 1/2" and a 20" 590A1 both with ghost rings. I love the tang mounted safety and the speed with which they shoulder and point. Neither of these however holds a candle in terms of the smoothness of the action to the High Standard of years past...
Thank you very much for this review; I have two 870 Police Magnums (and I used to have an 870 Express) and I have a 20" 590A1 Mossberg. I didn't really think about the action bars on the Mossberg and the alloy receiver until your video. I have heard of people breaking the action bars before (like they come off of the shotgun from heavy use or abuse) and need to be fixed. I don't know how much truth or how common that is. On my 590A1, the barrel ball detent which holds the mag cap on, was not peened correctly from the factory and the spring shot out. I had to get it re-peened in, which a gunsmith had to do. I wonder if that's the same ball detent setup as the safety. I do prefer the Mossberg ergonomics. For example, when I was freezing cold, it hurt to load shells in the 870 mag tube because of the loading gate being down. Really pinches your hand. Remington fixed the potential for this to jam by putting the "flexi tab" system on it, which is why you'll see it has a U-shaped cut out to prevent shells from jamming if you short stroke it.
The safety/bll-bearing arrangment is differnet from the magazine cap. It involves a flat spring and a screw. I still don't particularly care for it. Thanks for the comment!
Back in the day when Remington was Remington they were some of the best firearms made, that being said they are totally junk now piss poor quality and that why they have failed!!!! Moss berg all the way !
Amen on the leftie issue! Of course this is true for many shotguns and rifles. It is a training issue however it is not easy to overcome and if prone can be very difficult.
I just love pump action 12 gauge shotguns. I have two 590A1's, 2 590s, 2 500s, and 2 870s. These are versatile and durable guns that represent an incredible value. I got both of my 590a ones in 2019 and they were both less than $430. Now they're much more. I want a retrograde 590 a Mariner and a blued 590 with the 20" barrel and bayonet lug. Mine are all parkerized or matte blued except for my 20" 500.
Great video, im a mossberg guy but also like the 870p. The beeds are fast and i like the raised beed on the 870. I like rhe shorter 18.5 inch barrels as well for the same reason you do. My mossy is an 18.5
I was exploring the 590 vs 590A1 differences again, particularly the barrel thickness for accessories, and ran across this video comparison. I have multiples of both brands with the cadillac being an ex Ohio National Guard 870 Wingmaster with the bayonet lug attachment on it. There is one aspect of the 590 I think is superior and that is the internals in the receiver being removeable/replaceable unlike Remington with the staked in parts. I've had some of those come unstaked and good luck getting them back in without some special tools. If I were now picking only one I'd have to take a military spec. 590A1.
@@hrfunksingle vs duel extractors. During desert storm, the extractor (MIM) on my 870 broke rendering the 870 useless. Duel extractors share the stress burden, and if one does break, you can still run the gun. I have 3 870's and a 590a1, I would personally grab the 590 in a SHTF scenerio. JMHO
I’m surprised to learn there was a MIM extractor on a military issued 870. In the thousands of rounds I’ve seen run through military and law enforcement 870s (some of which were older than me), I only remember one broken extractor. Even so, your point is taken. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment.
One thing to consider as well is that if you are wearing gloves (either for cold weather or law enforcement/military use) you can get your glove fingers pinched between the shell loader and the magazine tube of the 870 when loading. If you are trying to reload the mag tube quickly and under stress, it can rear it's ugly head. I own both and I like both.
The Remington 870 has never had a light primer strike problem and has never had a trigger group breakage problem. Like the mossberg has had for years now with no fix from mossberg .
Obviously I am late to the party. Just found your channel. I am a Vietnam vet, former police officer of long ago, I used Mossberg then. I have had a couple 870s but not Police model. I have a chance to pick up a nice retired Remington 870P, so I am going to grab it. Thank you so much for your informative video. I have subscribed! Merry Christmas 2021.
Sir, I don’t mean no disrespect by this. The very first person I thought of when I saw this video is Floyd R. Turbo. I love both shotguns. I own both. I like the Mossberg 590 A1 slightly more due to the mechanical safety. I was in Iraq and we used Mossberg 500s for door breaching. I’m just biased that way I reckon. This is a great and informative video. Thank you for posting it.
No worries. I have no idea who floyd R. Turbo is. Thank you for your service to our country. I'm very happy the 590 A1 served you well. Thanks for watching!
You did try to be fair. But you did miss a few points. M590A1 Thick walled barrel. Perfect for military. Abuse City. Especially aboard a steel ship. Receiver is hardened Alloy. but the barrel mounts to bolt Steel to Steel. The controls should have been an automatic winner. On the Mossy, you can have your thumb on the safety, index finger on trigger guard and middle finger on the slide release. Can't get any better then that. Did not mention how brutal the 870 is with the shell lifter. especially wearing gloves. ( kinda skimmed over that) you did mention that the Mossy seemed like a too long of a barrel. Really 1.5 ". You also skinned over the bayonet mount. I admit a bayonet is over kill. But hey. It is a plus. I have a OKC US Marine bayonet on my Mossberg M590A1 U. S. Service model. Yep. Actually says that and is also in the serial Number. Lucked out on that find.The extractor on the Mossy can be replaced in the field. 870 is riveted in. I am sure there are a couple more biased things you exaggerated or left out. But This Mossy guy will say the 870 is a fine weapon. If you are use to an 870. stick with it. Great gun. If you are a first time buyer check out both. I personally prefer the Mossy. In fact the only thing I do not care for in my 590 A1 is the thick walled barrel. First time I spent an entire afternoon skeet and trap shooting one would think my right shoulder would be sore. nope. My left shoulder and bicep was sore from holding that front heavy barrel up. The 870 seems more balanced. But that"s about it. I do own an 870. Fine gun. Then I got 590. The controls are natural to use. If anyone is interested. Hickok45 does the same comparison. I believe is fair. Thanks for the video. I was not aware of the issue with the safety. Thanks.
You're welcome and thanks for the comment. One quick correction, the extractor on the 870 is not riveted. It too can be quickly replaced in the field. Take care!
Interesting Video! I'm a Remington Man, myself! That was our issued Shotgun. About 2 years before I retired, the Department went to the Mossberg 590A1. Not a bad Shotgun at all. I just preferred the Remington, so I'm with you on that one!
I own the M590A1 20” heavy barrel. I’ve put Magpul furniture on it. It’s a beast. SO many better features on the Mossburg over the Remington. The 590a1 has a bolted in dual extractor, the 870 has a spot welded in single extractor. That right there was a deal breaker for me. The larger round capacity is better....
I had a piece of shit 870. The spot welded spring ejector got caught and bent out of shape making the gun useless. I’m glad it didn’t happen in an emergency. My M590A1 has had no problems at all! I also have the magpul furniture and the ms1 sling. As well as the M7 bayonet! Mossberg wins!
I have used the 870 but only played with the 590. It appeared to me that the safety on the Mossberg because of the ball bearing design feels binary - it's on or off, no in-between ambiguity. On the 870 I managed a couple of times (user error admittedly) to insufficiently depress the tang safety, and the gun wouldn't fire. It wasn't immediately obvious to me when I was pressing it, it lacked the binary feel of the 590 safety.
Here's my main reason for preferring the Mossberg over the Remington: on a mossberg, the ejector is installed with a screw and can be easily replaced if need be....on a remington, the ejector is riveted on, so it has to go back to remington is the ejector needs to be replaced....personally, I would always lean towards a system that I can fix/repair by myself at home...JMHO and $.02, YMMV
Just as an FYI, in all the 870’s I’ve ever been around, used, or maintained (which is a LOT), I have seen precisely 1 ejector spring break on a very old, well worn shotgun. Even if it does break, the 870 will still function properly if the shooter runs the slide briskly. For those reasons, I don’t see the riveted ejector spring as a big shortcoming. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
Ho Lee Fuk I had a a piece of shit 870 years ago. The ejector spring bent out of shape and made the gun useless. I’m glad it didn’t happen in an emergency. Mossberg wins.
@@hrfunk Murphy's law, what can go wrong, will. Usually at the worst time. Anything can break made by man I'd rather be able to fix it myself. Same reason I like Glock. Easy to work on. The Mossberg can be fixed at home for about a four dollar part. The Remington. You're gonna have to send that in.
Thanks for a nice comparison video! One thing you didn't really bring up was that even though the receiver on the Mossberg is an alloy, and the receiver on the 870 is made from steel, both brands lockup the bolt to the barrel which is steel to steel. Most all modern designed shotguns now have an alloy receiver. All of them have a bolt that locks into the barrel one way or another. That even includes the Winchester 1300/SXP system which actually has a rotating bolt like an AR15. However, long live the 870 for its durability and heritage! Shotguns are my thing, and I find something interesting in just about every one of them :)
Thank you! I’m a lifelong 870 fan. I haven’t had a chance to try out one of the new versions yet, but my old 870s will probably outlast me. Thanks for watching!
I too have both the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 590A1 and have also noticed how the Mossberg tends to “feel” a little longer than the 870. I believe this may be due to the slightly increased distance between the rear of the pistol grip to the face of the trigger on the Mossberg vs shorter distance on the Remington. Great video! I really enjoy your stuff. Keep up the good work, Chief!
Wait a minute, is there really people out there that think the 870 is superior? That blows my mind, I bet they are the same people that think the 1911 is the best pistol ever made too.
The reason for the 590A1 seems a lot out front is well, because it is... That is too say, center of balance is at the receiver for ur 870P. For the, 590A1 , center point is a good bit forward of the ejection port.
That ball bearing your referring to is a detent ball. It sits in a machined detent with spring pressure behind it. This as you know is what locks the saftey in the chosen position. Thank you for the in dept comparison of these two popular shotguns.
I own several Mossberg 590A1s. I have never had a safety screw back out. The early 500 ( at least 40 years old, single action bar...) that I grew up with is still bone-stock and has never failed. It served well as a ranch utility and waterfowl gun on the Texas Gulf Coast. Never abused, well used. Still going strong.
@@hrfunk by the way, Semper Fi and thank you for your service... too bad you were an MP though lol. I was a Heavy Equipment Operator based out of Lejeune from 99-04/06-07.
Cross bolt safety is used by top shotgun manufacturers, Benelli, Beretta, etc.. because it just works. I've used both and find no advantage of a tang safety, takes no noticeable movement especially if you upgrade to a jumbo safety, Each their own but I guess everyone complaining about crossbolt safeties never use any hunting rifles, that should bunch up alot of people's panties. Last point about tang safety, if you decide you want a pistol grip with a collapsible stock you are screwed, and even if you go ahead and install one it is much more difficult to operate the safety for those who complain about crossbolt safeties then for those who don't.
I own both the 590 and 870. I think you missed a few things in this video. For one the ejectors.the 870 has rivets where the mossberg has screws. Rivets are not east to deal with and right now you cant even find anyone with any for the 870, whereas screws are easy but have a tendancy to come loose at the wrong time. Under stress the mossbergs pump gets a little sticky too, if you are pulling back as you fire at all it wont release until you release pressure amd get an audible click, the 870 seems more forgiving even though it will still do the same thing under extreme circumstances. Just my worthless two cents, great videos by the way, always enjoy em.
Thank you very much for this. I have owned an 870 Express 2 shot extension 18.5" and currently own 2 870 Police + 2 18.5" models (walnut, one blued one park'd). I also own a 20" 590A1 with Magpul forend and butt stock. I thoroughly enjoyed this review. I have had 0 issues with the 870s but I prefer the controls for the action release on the 590A1, but I could take or leave the safety positions. Issue I had with the 590A1, is that the barrel ball detent system (I'm assuming similar to the safety) falling out, and having to be peened over again properly by a gunsmith. My friend's had the EXACT same problem. However, I have never heard of the aluminum alloy receiver failing, even at the action bar area. Is there any documented evidence of this happening? I know that Mossberg's system locks up steel-to-steel and the aluminum receiver just holds the parts together. But I could be wrong.
I don’t know of any documented cases. It was more of a surmise based on the idea of steel working against aluminum. Then again, AR15 rifles don’t seem to have a problem with that.
hrfunk, you didn''t cover the unloading advantage of the Mossberg over the Remington. The Mossberg allows you to press against one of the action bar's within the loading well. This releases the shell from the magazine without having to cycle a round into the chamber before ejection. Very advantageous for the tactical next-shot-type selection and of course - safety.
Both release shells. You just press the shell holding bar on the "left" side of the gun for all Mossberg shotgun models, 500, 590, 690a1 and the Maverick 88. Press the shell holding bar on the "right" side for the Remington 870. I think you press the right side bar on semi-auto loading Remington's like the model #1100 too.
I remember when patrolmen carried 870s ..desperados never complained after it's use..mossberg safety's freeze up ,break etc..often..that was enough for me.great video 👍
I just bought a 590A1 in the XS sight/picatinny rail version. I kinda regret not just getting the bead sight version. I was hoping to shoot slugs and buckshot out of it but trying to sight it in at only 50 yards for slugs I find that XS rear sight post is up almost as high as I can get get it and it looks awkward and not having the protective wings I'm a bit leery of it. Where I have it set currently, various slugs are basically on at 50 yards (some high, others a couple inches low and left, others a bit high and right) and buckshot tends to hit dead on at 15 yards. It's gonna see buckshot use most of the time. I'm halfway tempted to buy a bead sight replacement barrel for it and remove the rear sight and rail but I'm still debating options.
I'll always be a 590 fan. I was issued this shotgun, and used it as a "key to the city". Not many doors stayed locked after using that key. LOL! The 870 is a great shotgun, but my heart is with the 590A1. This was the shotgun issued to us. From the old beaded front sight and heat shield to the ghost ring sight models nearing the end of my career. Both... Just devastating. To be honest... I wasn't to happy when Benelli M4's started being issued. Semper Fi!
On this one I have to disagree with you. After very heavy use in combat I never saw any signs of wear or any other issues with the 590. Mind you in some of the AO's I was in we used them regularly and hard. I never even heard of any issued of any kind. That's while being fed a steady diet of 00 Buck and breaching rounds... Mostly 00 buck. They just worked, and would eat anything feed to them in any weather or conditions.
Interestingly, that was my same experience with our 870’s when I was in the Corps. Some of those shotguns had been beaten to death, and they still kept working. I guess that just goes to show how good both of them are. Thanks for watching Devildog. Semper Fi!
I’m a 870 guy but prefer the safety location of Mossberg. Not a fan of the Mossberg rattle, yea I know people say it’s for dust and grit but why not fix it on those designed for hunting?
i don't see the rattle as an issue and the dual extractors of the 590 help ensure extraction. I once had some Federal shells deform in the tube leaking shot buffer everywhere in my 870, it jammed it to the point that I had to beat it against the ground to open up the action and the extractor kept slipping off the rim of the shell, I'm not saying it couldn't happen with the 590 but the dual extractors might help.
@@hrfunk Probably, it took a wooden dowel to get it out. In a less severe case I think the dual extractors could help. I also think a lot of why 590A1 feels less maneuverable has to do with the heavier barrel combined with the extra overall length, a regular 590 barrel feels better to me when transitioning from target to target.
The first firearm I ever fired was a Mossberg 22LR bolt action that I got my Boy Scout Merit badge with in the 60s, believe it or not Boy Scouts used to teach shooting. That being said I worked as an instructor teaching skeet and trap at a range that feature Remington 870s, 1100s and 3200 O/U for rent, so I got to see how reliable they were even under the worst conditions. When I went on the Police dept we trained on 870s and they were even more resilient considering that during training 250 men had to qualify on only the same 10 870s. So I might be a little bias, even though I’m left handed and like the safety on the Mossberg, I found that holding the pistol grip with my left hand with my middle finger wrapped around the trigger guard allowed instant access to the safety and also protected the trigger from twigs and branches when hunting in thick woods. While the department did not believe in over arming us, as a Swat member we would occasionally get called out on stakeouts, where it would have to double as a rifle for longer distances using slugs, again I like the 870 better as you noted the forend is much tighter on the gun when trying to aim at a smaller distant target it just feels steadier. One of the things I really liked was how easily it could be unloaded, which has to happen every time you use it and don’t shoot it. With the safety on, and holding the gun with your left hand wrapped around the receiver with your left index finger where the magazine tube meets the receiver, push the slide release and slowly start sliding the bolt towards its open position. You will be able to see the shell in the chamber come out of the chamber and start to tilt out of the ejection port to were you can easily remove it. Without sliding the slide back any further reach into the loading gate pushing the gate in towards the bolt. Now continue bringing the slide back to the fully open position and the first round in the magazine will be ejected out of the loading port w/o having to be chambered. Remove that round and with your index finger reach inside the edge of the magazine tube, you will find two catches one on each side of the tube, push them back and the second round in the magazine will eject out of the loading port, continue same procedure until magazine is empty. Being able to unload gun without having to rack the live shells through the chamber, especially in public won me over. Not that there is anything wrong with the Mossberg.
Agreed! As I mentioned to someone else, I should have demonstrated that unloading technique. Maybe I’ll make it the subject of a short video in the future. Thanks for watching and thanks for a GREAT comment!
The last brand new 870’s I had any experience with were some of the 14” models acquired for our tactical team. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago, and they were great little shotguns. The quality was the same as I’ve come to expect with the 870P over the years I’ve used it. I have not handled a brand new one in the last year or two.
Bought an 870 new 3 years ago. Quality is in the toilet. To be fair I have not shot a new Mossberg but I am going to buy soon and get rid of the 870. I'd buy an older used 870 without hesitation.
@@hrfunk The overall quality has gone downhill. Fit and finish is marginal. Sharp edges, rough action. Mine has not gotten much better after almost 400 rounds through it. The magazine cap is not a screw in piece it is a friction fit with stamped detents. Pain in rear to remove and install. I have an older 870 that has no issues but it is a 2 3/4 receiver and I wanted something in 3". I have looked at new 500's and they have gone downhill a little but not like a Remington IMO. I will probably purchase a new 500 in the near future. If I were to buy another 870 It would be an older gun only.
it is easy too change the safety with a left operated one, i am a right handed shooter,but has changed mine to a large domed one. it's fast and you dont need to use the fingertip. so now it is even faster than a thumb safety.
I am very diappointed with this review. You did not evaluate both shotguns with the TV and movie loading technique whereby the shotgun is cycled with one hand in the vertical position by grasping only the forestock and rapidly moving that hand up and down. (BTW, when this is done on TV it apparently does not work, because in the next scene it is performed again and no shell from the previous racking is ejected.) FYI: This is referred to as the One Hand Gravity Assist Inertia TV Reload.I will gladly contibute a few months of Netflix so you can lern the proper way to handle a shotgun.... like the TV actors. Please perform the one-hand-TV-rack-loading-make-that-chambering-noise-technique, which apaprently scares the adversary. Thank you.
I have that same 590A1! Including the stock with shell holders and the bayonet lug. First gun I ever bought. I used to take it skeet shooting. The guys at the range thought it was weird, but they let me go ahead.
What’s the difference between Remington 870 police or the Remington 870 Express Magnum? I have the Remington express magnum purchased around 2004, before the financial troubles began. Thank you.
The differences are mainly in finish, quality control, and things like a metal fire control housing as opposed to polymer, and of course the magazine. The basic design is the same.
Wow great vid...now I am even more conflicted on wich one to get ... I am really thinking I will get the 870 police Magnum a little cheaper on Gun Broker right now... Length of pull & barrel length is better for inside the house...
I've had two 870's and, I must admit, I have had nothing but reliability issues with them. They both fail to eject shells and are extremly finicky with the ammo used. My Mossberg 590A1 has performed flawlessly. I love the gun and would trust my life with it. It feeds anything I put through it and is built like a tank. If I could get my hands on an older 870 I'd be willing to give it a try.
Joe Ruggiero same boat. I’ve had 4 different 870’s and all had something wrong. I had more luck with a Chinese 870 clone. The finish sucked but it was 100% reliable. Got a 590a1 now and have had zero issues
when I bought a combat shotgun , what made me pick the Mossberg was the shell extractor on the 870 the extractor is welded in the 590 is screwed in allowing field service, I like the Finnish on your 870 by the way
I've had an 870 express for a long time. As a lefty I got used to clicking the safety off with my left thumb. I recently fixed that and made it a lefty safety.
@@hrfunk welcome to adapting to a right handed world as a lefty. Pick up a right handed 870 with your left hand on behind the trigger. There was only one way I naturally saw to press the safety. With my thumb before I shoulder the gun. It's not as crazy as it sounds. I've been safe.
My first shotgun was a Mossberg 500 but I grew attached to the 870 after becoming a Correctional Officer. Having owned both I prefer the 870 over the 500 series. It's nothing against Mossberg I think they are great shotguns but after spending so much time with the 870 its muscle memory. Example my step-father joined me for shooting clays using my Mossberg 20 ga but he was so used to shooting an A5 that when he hit the first clay he kept pulling the trigger due to using a semi-auto shotgun for decades
Watched your two videos on the 870 vs. The Mossberg 590A1, & enjoyed them greatly. I commented earlier but couldn't locate my comment, so I wanted to let you know my choice--since it was largely due to the videos, and your gracious reply to my questions. I chose the Rem. 870 in the "Deerslayer" model. I think that was its designation. It's got the 20" smoothbore barrel with IC permanent choke and open sights. I didn't like the "tactical" furniture on the tac model, and I knew I would want a model with iron sights. I didn't care so much about a high capacity magazine tube (this one has a 4 round tubular mag. plus 1 in the chamber), since I'm not an LEO. The good thing is I can carry this in the forest (I live in Payson, AZ, which is in the Tonto National Forest and has lots of wildlife, including numerous coyotes, mountain lion, bear, etc. That was more the basis for my choice than two legged predators. All this to say THANK YOU for your advice. I appreciate it deeply. Keep up with the videos. They are GREAT.
Nobody can deny both are amazing shotguns. Personally I like the controls of the Mossberg more and that's why I prefer it...but if I had a need for 2 shotguns and had extra money I'd own both.
To be fair, on mossy It’s steel on steel lock up though as far as the aluminum receiver is concerned. The 18.5 barrel 590a1 weighs 6.3 lbs, which is significantly lighter.
I Love my Mossberg Retrograde 590A1, and even my Mossberg Retrograde 500 that comes in at $500….. for the Quality it is a Fantastic 12 gage shotgun even for a first time shotgun Buyer. Lots of fun from both manufacturers by New owners or existing owners alike, that is a certainty. 🥳🤠👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 B9USA. Sr.
The only time I ever carried a shotgun in the Corps was when I was stationed in Iwakuni and while I walked guard duty around armories. I believe that they were Mossberg 500's if memory serves me correctly. They were loose as a goose! We carried them on a sling, muzzle up, slide open. In that position, you could reach back, grab the small of the stock and quickly rotate the gun forward with a sudden stop at hip level. The slide would fly home, chambering a round. It might sound kind of "cowboyish" but that was about the extent of our tactical training in 1973-1976. I can tell you this, when you performed that action when challenging someone "on or near" our post, it brought the individual to a complete stop. Seems that the sound of a "bolt" going home on a cool, crisp, dark, evening makes people's feet stop quickly. haha
And, yes, I performed that maneuver several times with that very reaction coming to pass!
One of the other detrimental things about the 870 is the price. They always seem to be proud of them..... ;)
The big reason the 870 is more expensive is because of that machined steel receiver. The 2-piece alloy receiver on the Mossberg costs less to produce. Great stories about Iwakini, by the way!
It's interesting hearing how often 12 gauge pumps get used in military and police. Thanks! Lots of people like to knock them, but they're hard to beat.
@@hrfunk Yes, really a pointless "upgrade" that does not do much else other than increase the weight and price of the gun, just for the sake of saying it's "all steel". Probably one of the reason Remington has been failing in the last 30 years.
I've never heard of an aluminum receiver failing on an AR, a Mossberg shotgun, or any other gun for that matter. Most of the pressure is sustained by the bolt and barrel, they lock together and are both steel on all guns with aluminum receivers. Such a dumb moot point when people try and act like you're rolling the dice using a gun with an aluminum receiver...
I too, have a long (professional) relationship with the 870. I own multiple versions of the 870 & 500/590. But... I'm a Mossy fan all the way. Admittedly, the first thing I do when I get a new Mossy is replace the safety (if it's plastic). But that "looseness" in the forearm assembly is by design. That's a mud/sand/grit tolerance that's built in. The Mossy has a better shell elevator/lifter, and I've never hung a glove in the 590 while loading, like I have with 870. Also, the 590 has duel extractors, while the 870 has one (but it works), and a broken ejector is a "field fix" in the 590; it's an out-of-service gunsmith job for the 870. In the end, it's Ford vs Chevy. But both are very formidable weapons for anyone's collection, and I'd be comfortable defending myself with either one. "Thumbs up" from this Kentucky boy.
Thank you! I meant to mention the dual extractor on the 590A1 and I flat out FORGOT! Sorry about that. By the way, replacing a broken 870 extractor (which I’ve never seen, by the way) is about a 2 or 3 minute job for an armorer. It can probably be accomplished without even disassembling the shotgun. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
Kentucky Justice; gotta say I’m with you all the way.
One has a bayonet lug....so it wins!
@@rimfirejunkie7427 I suspect it was actually the "ejector" that was damaged. Just FYI, if you ever run into that situation again, the shotgun will still function normally. You just have to work the action a little more briskly.
Great in-depth look at both guns. Thanks for your time and shared knowledge.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
So…
If the Mossberg 500 / 590 / 590 A1 is “inferior” due to the alloy receiver, then I’ll argue that all of your “AR” platforms and your beloved Benelli and Beretta automatics are equally inferior. That same logic would imply that all alloy framed automatic pistols are inferior.
Action bars wearing in the receiver? I’m calling B.S. on this one. All parts will wear to each other within reason. Once they do, this is a moot point. I own more than a few Mossbergs. I have one with a high round count and can say with authority that there is no excessive wear from the action bars. The safety screw issue, on the other hand, is a little more plausible. I never experienced a screw backing out but have to admit that I have examined one that did. I still prefer the top tang safety over the trigger guard location. Mossberg got the bolt release location right, as well.
I did not hear any mention of dual extractors V. single extractor. Yes, the Mossberg will function with only one. I’ve tried it for the sake of argument. I noticed there was no mention of the “staked” ejector versus a screw mounted ejector, but that bias doesn’t work in favor of the 870.
I own 870s as well, one of which is a Wingmaster manufactured in 1958. The quality and craftsmanship is outstanding. It’s a shame that Remington cannot produce the same level of quality they once did. Remington still sells 870s based on a past reputation. It’s a shame they went bankrupt.
I’m a fan of both, but I have to admit, I have love for my 870P which was made in 80s.
I prefer the crossbolt safety. Its just more intuitive for me, being a seasoned rabbit hunter (using remingtons and benellis). My 870 Express Super Mag has been rock solid. I am however in the market for a 590 because i believe every American should own both 😎
I also like the location of the safety on the Mossberg over the Remington
Its no safety on both guns. The best thing is to ignore them.
Best thing about both Remington 870 or the Mossberg 590/590a1 is there are tons of aftermarket upgrades for both shotguns. Oversize safeties, better forearms, upgraded springs, saddle shell carriers, metal trigger guards, heat shields, anti recoil buttstocks, optics rails, just be creative.
For those that want a bayonet lug on your Remington 870 they are available from S&J Hardware, Ontario, Canada. S&J Hardware also makes a bayonet lug for Benelli M-4 shotguns. Very secure fit on both shotguns. Make sure you get a real M-9 bayonet. Ontario Knife Company makes a real M-9. No China made bayonets! Chinese bayonets quickly break.
Thanks for tip. I have always gravitated to the 870, but always wanted the bayonet lug like the 590a1 has. You know, for all the times you get into a bayonet fight. 😀. I may order one for my 870 P.
I think I would go with the Mossberg! Thx !
Nice vid, I am interested in the Moss 590A1, your video confirms my choice. Your daughter plays very well the piano, congratulations from France 🇨🇵
Thank you!
HR Funk.
Well Sir all I can say is well done and yes you was FAR-ish (lol) but overall OUTSTANDING.
During my 3 yr stent as a MSG we use the 870 and my later MOS we was issued the basic configuration Mossberg 590. At one of my duty stations we had a compliment of 590 and some 870's. Having grown up with both manufacturers shotguns I always gravitated towards the Mossberg. As you Illustrated both have strong points and weak points. As far as the Tang safety on the Mossberg I have heard of that issue, but I have never personally experienced it nor do I know anyone that has. As far as the length of pull on Mossberg they are generally 14 in LOP as Remington's are somewhere around the 13 3/4 inch LOP.
One thing I would like to add sir is the barrel on the Mossberg 590 is a heavy wall Barrel that was specified by the department of the Navy in the initial specs for the platform.
Reason being what's the cause of Navy boys can't help themselves banging barrels into the entryway aboard ship causing them to get dings in the barrel. You know those Navy boys they just really need to leave the fighting to us that's what we're here for. LOL..
Well, the Navy guys do like to bang their barrels! (Just kidding guys!). Thanks for a great comment Gunny. I’m glad you liked part-1. I think part-2 will be even better if I can ever get time to edit it and get it posted!
You make a great argument for Mossberg.
Thanks for the heads up on the safety, I’ve never heard it before so I don’t know how common it would be but still, I’ll keep my eyes peeled.
Dont laugh but the first shotgun I used in law enforcement was a Winchester Model 1897 20" that belonged to my partner, personal owned when riding with him before additional vehicles arrived ( single man units, no FTO program existed anywhere in U.S, FTO was what drunks saw in the sky at night...lookie there an FTO) Later we issued shotguns to individual deputies.( Instead of a common gun locker) These were 870 Remington 20" with bead sights, later rifle sight versions were issued. That was the primary shotgun issued and remains so to this day. Some held four rounds others had extended magazines. Even with slugs and bead sights on the 870 could hit 1/2 size metal poppers at 50 yards all day. I was/am a fan of the 870 it defended me well for 37 years. We eventually had M16A1 rifles but I let my people get those, I kept my shotgun (yes favor the rifle but benefit to my deputies). Never used a Mossberg never even owned one but from all reports it is an excellent weapon. I like the retro 590A1 with bayonet lug and heat shield, the weapon looks rather interesting.
I was taught if I wasn't going to say something nice to not say anything. Mossberg 590A1 all day.
They’re both great shotguns, I like my 870, but I’ve had a couple mossbergs.
M590a1 retrograde.
Wins
Amen 🙏
Love mine!
Hard to find now. Spendy too.
@@scottthomson516 I regret just now finding out about this model a week ago.
Just searched it up and msrp on the manufacturer's website is almost $1k. Whats the difference between the retrograde and if i were to just install wood furniture and a heatshield on a 590a1?
I come from a hunting background. I don't have any law enforcement history and during my short time in the army I never touched a shotgun. With that in mind, my first shotgun as a kid was a Mossberg. Its been several decades since then and I've tried most of the common makes of shotguns since then. I've found that for me I have too many years of operating the safety with my thumb. My Mossbergs, several O/U shotguns, my favorite rifles, even handguns(that have a manual safety).... all of them use thumb operated safeties. When a bird flushes or a rabbit sprints by, my thumb does what it knows. I assume the same would hold true for two legged targets as well. I've missed out on several shot opportunities trying to get the safety off on other styles of shotguns while hunting. I don't want to take the chance of missing the one shot opportunity that saves my life in a self defense situation. This made me want to get out the old scattergun and bust some clays or take a walk in the woods. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks for the video friend.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment.
The 3 I've seen for where Ive been in civil law is the benelli nova, 870 and the mossberg. I would say really can't go wrong. Just what you like more.
It's hard to go wrong with a good shotgun!
Best comparison video between those 2 shotguns. I was thinking of the 590 but I will keep my 28 year old 870P Thank you.
I think the old 870 will serve you quite well! Thanks for watching.
@@hrfunk As they say an old soldier NEVER Dies. Take care and stay safe.
the video was great. covered all the bases, well done. your daughters music was awesome. tell her she did a great job.
Will do. thanks for watching!
Got both, like both. But love my Winchester 1300 speed pump!
Have one with the smooth bore slug barrel. nice shotgun. Now to find a shot barrel for it.
Smoothest action there is.
Love mine as well.. light and quick.
The Mossberg 500a is the first firearm I ever purchased its more than thirty years old. A few years ago I purchased a 28" barrel and a standard stock. In case my autoloader ever malfunctions. My hunting days are over can't walk to far anymore. I spent 30 years in service. Usually one man in each squad carried a pistol grip shotgun to breach doors and such. I retired in 2009 so now I have time to shoot recreational
again. It's a lot of fun. And the range i use is well run. Again thanks for your videos!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching.
I'm a Mossberg guy all the way, my only problem I ever had was with the safety moving into the disengaged position on my 590A1, I switched to a raised safety switch and replaced the detenter ball, spring and block.
I'm a lefty and own 870 left hand and a mossy 500. I have always liked the tang safety better than the crossbolt safety. No offense to anyone but I believe that hole thing with the steal receiver being supior to the alloy is old school thinking. I believe in all practical uses a 500 or 590 will last as long as any 870 . It's logical to think otherwise because the 870 feels more solid but that's all. Mossy is just as durible. Of course this is based on my experience. I have owned many of both. Great video 👌
Thanks Funk for another well executed video. I like your delivery more and more with every entry. I own the exact 590A1 you show in this video. I also added a receiver shell mount to add 6 rounds of on board reserve. I'm not opposed to the 870, I just haven't found a reason to get one, given my current shotgun inventory. I added an M9 to mine just for affect. I like the look.
It sounds like you are quite well armed, Kevin. Thanks for watching!
Both are strong well built shotguns that have stood the test of time. They do have their similarities and differences in controls layout and materials construction and quality like you mentioned. I personally prefer the 870 in general. I really dislike the ambidextrous safety on the Mossberg's and the full steel receivers and machined bolt and extractor on the 870 Police Magnum are my preference. Overall great video and comparison, I get you and everyone else are gonna have their biases but it was a great overall video either way. Good concise information and demonstration of their similarities and differences. Great content, and I appreciate you comparing the two! 👍
Curious how you found out the mossberg receiver is welded from two pieces. I have looked everywhere and can not find that written anywhere. Wouldn't doubt it but it looks machined from one peice.
I'm pretty sure it is, I've never heard that either.
This guy is very bias. He's not addressing the negatives of the 870 but is addressing the negatives of the 590A1.
When the 590A1 beat the 870 in MIL Spec military test.
@@markreagan2956 how could you beat something you didn't even test against? Remington never submitted a shotgun to those tests. Any shotgun could past those military tests its not like military standards are very hard.
Many years back I purchased a Mossberg 590. I got the cylinder bore with ghost ring sights AND the heat shield. I had to use a sheet of suede to protect the barrel when I worked the heat shield around the barrel (the ghost ring front sight prevented the shield from just sliding down the barrel). But it worked and it looks GREAT! Shoots great, too. My Mossberg has a 6+1 capacity.
Cool! I’m glad you like it!
I will take round capacity all day long, the Mossberg wins!
Extensions are cheap for the 870.
@imgone lmao you sound like whiny little bitch
@imgone Dude, just say no to drugs.
@@scottperson9487 wow, that escalated quickly. And for no particular reason. All you did was state a fact lol
What he failed to mention is this Remington 870P has a 18" barrel with only a +2 shot extension on it. The Mossberg 590A1 is a 20" model which has a longer magazine tube, that's the only reason they hold more. Remington 870P 20" models with a +3 shot extension will have the same round capacity.
I wouldn't trust anything Remington has produced post-Freedom Group...That being said, I've owned 3 Remington 870s and they've all been work horses. Love em.
What happened to remington after post freedom froup? (What is freedom group?)
Not to start a storm, but I just never use the safety on my 870. It is kept with hammer down on an empty chamber. This is easy to verify any time you pick the gun up.
I used the 870 and variants for 26 years in the Border Patrol. It is a sturdy, reliable, well made firearm...at least it used to before Freedom Group bought up Remington and a lot of other iconic brands. I would and have bet my life on it. It cycles very smoothly maybe a little bit better than the Mossie. That said I have two of Mossies, an 18 1/2" and a 20" 590A1 both with ghost rings. I love the tang mounted safety and the speed with which they shoulder and point. Neither of these however holds a candle in terms of the smoothness of the action to the High Standard of years past...
You've just gotta love a good shotgun! Thanks for watching!
Thank you very much for this review; I have two 870 Police Magnums (and I used to have an 870 Express) and I have a 20" 590A1 Mossberg. I didn't really think about the action bars on the Mossberg and the alloy receiver until your video. I have heard of people breaking the action bars before (like they come off of the shotgun from heavy use or abuse) and need to be fixed. I don't know how much truth or how common that is. On my 590A1, the barrel ball detent which holds the mag cap on, was not peened correctly from the factory and the spring shot out. I had to get it re-peened in, which a gunsmith had to do. I wonder if that's the same ball detent setup as the safety.
I do prefer the Mossberg ergonomics. For example, when I was freezing cold, it hurt to load shells in the 870 mag tube because of the loading gate being down. Really pinches your hand. Remington fixed the potential for this to jam by putting the "flexi tab" system on it, which is why you'll see it has a U-shaped cut out to prevent shells from jamming if you short stroke it.
The safety/bll-bearing arrangment is differnet from the magazine cap. It involves a flat spring and a screw. I still don't particularly care for it. Thanks for the comment!
Back in the day when Remington was Remington they were some of the best firearms made, that being said they are totally junk now piss poor quality and that why they have failed!!!! Moss berg all the way !
Amen on the leftie issue! Of course this is true for many shotguns and rifles. It is a training issue however it is not easy to overcome and if prone can be very difficult.
I have two Remington 870 Police shotguns and they have been absolutely perfect. The police version of the 870 is the best pump shotgun on the planet.
Mossberg also has duel extractors vs one for the Remington.
I just love pump action 12 gauge shotguns. I have two 590A1's, 2 590s, 2 500s, and 2 870s. These are versatile and durable guns that represent an incredible value. I got both of my 590a ones in 2019 and they were both less than $430. Now they're much more. I want a retrograde 590 a Mariner and a blued 590 with the 20" barrel and bayonet lug. Mine are all parkerized or matte blued except for my 20" 500.
Excellent review sounds like a real instructor 👏👍
Thank you!
Great video, im a mossberg guy but also like the 870p. The beeds are fast and i like the raised beed on the 870. I like rhe shorter 18.5 inch barrels as well for the same reason you do. My mossy is an 18.5
I was exploring the 590 vs 590A1 differences again, particularly the barrel thickness for accessories, and ran across this video comparison. I have multiples of both brands with the cadillac being an ex Ohio National Guard 870 Wingmaster with the bayonet lug attachment on it. There is one aspect of the 590 I think is superior and that is the internals in the receiver being removeable/replaceable unlike Remington with the staked in parts. I've had some of those come unstaked and good luck getting them back in without some special tools. If I were now picking only one I'd have to take a military spec. 590A1.
First time I've ever heard of a tang safety screw backing out. 590a1 safety > 870. 870 is a great shotgun, I own 3, but the 590a1 is better.
In your opinion, what makes it better?
@@hrfunksingle vs duel extractors. During desert storm, the extractor (MIM) on my 870 broke rendering the 870 useless. Duel extractors share the stress burden, and if one does break, you can still run the gun. I have 3 870's and a 590a1, I would personally grab the 590 in a SHTF scenerio. JMHO
I’m surprised to learn there was a MIM extractor on a military issued 870. In the thousands of rounds I’ve seen run through military and law enforcement 870s (some of which were older than me), I only remember one broken extractor. Even so, your point is taken. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment.
@@hrfunk I enjoy your channel, and thank you for your service!
You’re welcome, Sir. Thank you for watching!
Highly informative, thank you. Your daughter also plays the dulcimer very well.
Thank you Howard!
One thing to consider as well is that if you are wearing gloves (either for cold weather or law enforcement/military use) you can get your glove fingers pinched between the shell loader and the magazine tube of the 870 when loading. If you are trying to reload the mag tube quickly and under stress, it can rear it's ugly head. I own both and I like both.
Good point!
The Remington 870 has never had a light primer strike problem and has never had a trigger group breakage problem. Like the mossberg has had for years now with no fix from mossberg .
Obviously I am late to the party. Just found your channel. I am a Vietnam vet, former police officer of long ago, I used Mossberg then. I have had a couple 870s but not Police model. I have a chance to pick up a nice retired Remington 870P, so I am going to grab it. Thank you so much for your informative video. I have subscribed! Merry Christmas 2021.
Merry Christmas to you and thanks for the subscription!
Sir, I don’t mean no disrespect by this. The very first person I thought of when I saw this video is Floyd R. Turbo. I love both shotguns. I own both. I like the Mossberg 590 A1 slightly more due to the mechanical safety. I was in Iraq and we used Mossberg 500s for door breaching. I’m just biased that way I reckon. This is a great and informative video. Thank you for posting it.
No worries. I have no idea who floyd R. Turbo is. Thank you for your service to our country. I'm very happy the 590 A1 served you well. Thanks for watching!
You did try to be fair. But you did miss a few points. M590A1 Thick walled barrel. Perfect for military. Abuse City. Especially aboard a steel ship. Receiver is hardened Alloy. but the barrel mounts to bolt Steel to Steel. The controls should have been an automatic winner. On the Mossy, you can have your thumb on the safety, index finger on trigger guard and middle finger on the slide release. Can't get any better then that. Did not mention how brutal the 870 is with the shell lifter. especially wearing gloves. ( kinda skimmed over that) you did mention that the Mossy seemed like a too long of a barrel. Really 1.5 ". You also skinned over the bayonet mount. I admit a bayonet is over kill. But hey. It is a plus. I have a OKC US Marine bayonet on my Mossberg M590A1 U. S. Service model. Yep. Actually says that and is also in the serial Number. Lucked out on that find.The extractor on the Mossy can be replaced in the field. 870 is riveted in. I am sure there are a couple more biased things you exaggerated or left out. But This Mossy guy will say the 870 is a fine weapon. If you are use to an 870. stick with it. Great gun. If you are a first time buyer check out both. I personally prefer the Mossy. In fact the only thing I do not care for in my 590 A1 is the thick walled barrel. First time I spent an entire afternoon skeet and trap shooting one would think my right shoulder would be sore. nope. My left shoulder and bicep was sore from holding that front heavy barrel up. The 870 seems more balanced. But that"s about it. I do own an 870. Fine gun. Then I got 590. The controls are natural to use. If anyone is interested. Hickok45 does the same comparison. I believe is fair. Thanks for the video. I was not aware of the issue with the safety. Thanks.
You're welcome and thanks for the comment. One quick correction, the extractor on the 870 is not riveted. It too can be quickly replaced in the field. Take care!
Interesting Video! I'm a Remington Man, myself! That was our issued Shotgun. About 2 years before I retired, the Department went to the Mossberg 590A1. Not a bad Shotgun at all. I just preferred the Remington, so I'm with you on that one!
The 870P is just a rock solid platform. It’s hard to beat!
Great video and summary. I opted for 590A1 with M-Lock. Just waiting for delivery which May take months
New Mossberg handgun looks awesome.
I own the M590A1 20” heavy barrel. I’ve put Magpul furniture on it. It’s a beast. SO many better features on the Mossburg over the Remington. The 590a1 has a bolted in dual extractor, the 870 has a spot welded in single extractor. That right there was a deal breaker for me. The larger round capacity is better....
I had a piece of shit 870. The spot welded spring ejector got caught and bent out of shape making the gun useless. I’m glad it didn’t happen in an emergency. My M590A1 has had no problems at all! I also have the magpul furniture and the ms1 sling. As well as the M7 bayonet! Mossberg wins!
I have used the 870 but only played with the 590. It appeared to me that the safety on the Mossberg because of the ball bearing design feels binary - it's on or off, no in-between ambiguity. On the 870 I managed a couple of times (user error admittedly) to insufficiently depress the tang safety, and the gun wouldn't fire. It wasn't immediately obvious to me when I was pressing it, it lacked the binary feel of the 590 safety.
Thanks for the comment. That’s one of those “muscle-memory” kind of points that I’m so used to that I don’t even think of it.
Here's my main reason for preferring the Mossberg over the Remington: on a mossberg, the ejector is installed with a screw and can be easily replaced if need be....on a remington, the ejector is riveted on, so it has to go back to remington is the ejector needs to be replaced....personally, I would always lean towards a system that I can fix/repair by myself at home...JMHO and $.02, YMMV
Just as an FYI, in all the 870’s I’ve ever been around, used, or maintained (which is a LOT), I have seen precisely 1 ejector spring break on a very old, well worn shotgun. Even if it does break, the 870 will still function properly if the shooter runs the slide briskly. For those reasons, I don’t see the riveted ejector spring as a big shortcoming. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
Ho Lee Fuk I had a a piece of shit 870 years ago. The ejector spring bent out of shape and made the gun useless. I’m glad it didn’t happen in an emergency. Mossberg wins.
@@hrfunk Murphy's law, what can go wrong, will. Usually at the worst time. Anything can break made by man I'd rather be able to fix it myself. Same reason I like Glock. Easy to work on. The Mossberg can be fixed at home for about a four dollar part. The Remington. You're gonna have to send that in.
@@brentsaylor1725 Not anymore.
Thanks for a nice comparison video! One thing you didn't really bring up was that even though the receiver on the Mossberg is an alloy, and the receiver on the 870 is made from steel, both brands lockup the bolt to the barrel which is steel to steel. Most all modern designed shotguns now have an alloy receiver. All of them have a bolt that locks into the barrel one way or another. That even includes the Winchester 1300/SXP system which actually has a rotating bolt like an AR15. However, long live the 870 for its durability and heritage! Shotguns are my thing, and I find something interesting in just about every one of them :)
Thank you! I’m a lifelong 870 fan. I haven’t had a chance to try out one of the new versions yet, but my old 870s will probably outlast me. Thanks for watching!
I too have both the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 590A1 and have also noticed how the Mossberg tends to “feel” a little longer than the 870. I believe this may be due to the slightly increased distance between the rear of the pistol grip to the face of the trigger on the Mossberg vs shorter distance on the Remington. Great video! I really enjoy your stuff. Keep up the good work, Chief!
Will do! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for your service, sir
Wait a minute, is there really people out there that think the 870 is superior? That blows my mind, I bet they are the same people that think the 1911 is the best pistol ever made too.
Well, now that you mention it…..
Awesome review, sir-Made all that much better by that intro performed by your very talented daughter.
Thank you!
I own both, mossberg is superior. And my 870 is pre freedom group.
The reason for the 590A1 seems a lot out front is well, because it is... That is too say, center of balance is at the receiver for ur 870P. For the, 590A1 , center point is a good bit forward of the ejection port.
That ball bearing your referring to is a detent ball. It sits in a machined detent with spring pressure behind it. This as you know is what locks the saftey in the chosen position. Thank you for the in dept comparison of these two popular shotguns.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
I own several Mossberg 590A1s. I have never had a safety screw back out. The early 500 ( at least 40 years old, single action bar...) that I grew up with is still bone-stock and has never failed. It served well as a ranch utility and waterfowl gun on the Texas Gulf Coast. Never abused, well used. Still going strong.
Good! I hope they all continue to serve you well!
Great points on the differences in each shotgun Hrfunk.
Thank you!
Mossberg, because: ejection spring, capacity, safety, and BAYONET if you run out of shells.
Ha, ha! I guess it also makes a handy club!
@@hrfunk by the way, Semper Fi and thank you for your service... too bad you were an MP though lol. I was a Heavy Equipment Operator based out of Lejeune from 99-04/06-07.
@@neemguy81 Semper Fi! Thanks for watching!
Cross bolt safety is used by top shotgun manufacturers, Benelli, Beretta, etc.. because it just works. I've used both and find no advantage of a tang safety, takes no noticeable movement especially if you upgrade to a jumbo safety, Each their own but I guess everyone complaining about crossbolt safeties never use any hunting rifles, that should bunch up alot of people's panties. Last point about tang safety, if you decide you want a pistol grip with a collapsible stock you are screwed, and even if you go ahead and install one it is much more difficult to operate the safety for those who complain about crossbolt safeties then for those who don't.
I own both the 590 and 870. I think you missed a few things in this video. For one the ejectors.the 870 has rivets where the mossberg has screws. Rivets are not east to deal with and right now you cant even find anyone with any for the 870, whereas screws are easy but have a tendancy to come loose at the wrong time. Under stress the mossbergs pump gets a little sticky too, if you are pulling back as you fire at all it wont release until you release pressure amd get an audible click, the 870 seems more forgiving even though it will still do the same thing under extreme circumstances. Just my worthless two cents, great videos by the way, always enjoy em.
He also missed the loading gate issue on the 870 and how it can pinch your fingers and how shells can come out and get stuck.
Thank you very much for this. I have owned an 870 Express 2 shot extension 18.5" and currently own 2 870 Police + 2 18.5" models (walnut, one blued one park'd). I also own a 20" 590A1 with Magpul forend and butt stock. I thoroughly enjoyed this review. I have had 0 issues with the 870s but I prefer the controls for the action release on the 590A1, but I could take or leave the safety positions. Issue I had with the 590A1, is that the barrel ball detent system (I'm assuming similar to the safety) falling out, and having to be peened over again properly by a gunsmith. My friend's had the EXACT same problem. However, I have never heard of the aluminum alloy receiver failing, even at the action bar area. Is there any documented evidence of this happening? I know that Mossberg's system locks up steel-to-steel and the aluminum receiver just holds the parts together. But I could be wrong.
I don’t know of any documented cases. It was more of a surmise based on the idea of steel working against aluminum. Then again, AR15 rifles don’t seem to have a problem with that.
hrfunk, you didn''t cover the unloading advantage of the Mossberg over the Remington. The Mossberg allows you to press against one of the action bar's within the loading well. This releases the shell from the magazine without having to cycle a round into the chamber before ejection. Very advantageous for the tactical next-shot-type selection and of course - safety.
The 870 allows the same thing. I probably should have demonstrated that, but the video was getting a bit long, so I didn’t go into that.
Both release shells. You just press the shell holding bar on the "left" side of the gun for all Mossberg shotgun models, 500, 590, 690a1 and the Maverick 88.
Press the shell holding bar on the "right" side for the Remington 870. I think you press the right side bar on semi-auto loading Remington's like the model #1100 too.
Remington does the sane thing most shotguns do.
I gt a Winchester home defender made n new haven runs good smooth yout opinion 3rd inf division 76 2 1980 good review
I remember when patrolmen carried 870s ..desperados never complained after it's use..mossberg safety's freeze up ,break etc..often..that was enough for me.great video 👍
Thanks Mark!
I just bought a 590A1 in the XS sight/picatinny rail version. I kinda regret not just getting the bead sight version. I was hoping to shoot slugs and buckshot out of it but trying to sight it in at only 50 yards for slugs I find that XS rear sight post is up almost as high as I can get get it and it looks awkward and not having the protective wings I'm a bit leery of it. Where I have it set currently, various slugs are basically on at 50 yards (some high, others a couple inches low and left, others a bit high and right) and buckshot tends to hit dead on at 15 yards. It's gonna see buckshot use most of the time. I'm halfway tempted to buy a bead sight replacement barrel for it and remove the rear sight and rail but I'm still debating options.
I think you’ll be interested in seeing how well the slugs do from the barrel with a bead sight when I get part-2 of this video up.
I am really looking forward to it. I really enjoy your videos as well.
Put a dab of blue loc-tite on the screw. That will keep it from backing out.
That’s what I’ve done, but I’m still a bit leery of it.
I'll always be a 590 fan. I was issued this shotgun, and used it as a "key to the city". Not many doors stayed locked after using that key. LOL! The 870 is a great shotgun, but my heart is with the 590A1. This was the shotgun issued to us. From the old beaded front sight and heat shield to the ghost ring sight models nearing the end of my career. Both... Just devastating. To be honest... I wasn't to happy when Benelli M4's started being issued. Semper Fi!
On this one I have to disagree with you. After very heavy use in combat I never saw any signs of wear or any other issues with the 590. Mind you in some of the AO's I was in we used them regularly and hard. I never even heard of any issued of any kind. That's while being fed a steady diet of 00 Buck and breaching rounds... Mostly 00 buck. They just worked, and would eat anything feed to them in any weather or conditions.
Interestingly, that was my same experience with our 870’s when I was in the Corps. Some of those shotguns had been beaten to death, and they still kept working. I guess that just goes to show how good both of them are. Thanks for watching Devildog. Semper Fi!
I’m a 870 guy but prefer the safety location of Mossberg. Not a fan of the Mossberg rattle, yea I know people say it’s for dust and grit but why not fix it on those designed for hunting?
I suppose the folks at Mossberg would say there is still the potential for dust and grit to cause problems in a hunting shotgun.
i don't see the rattle as an issue and the dual extractors of the 590 help ensure extraction.
I once had some Federal shells deform in the tube leaking shot buffer everywhere in my 870, it jammed it to the point that I had to beat it against the ground to open up the action and the extractor kept slipping off the rim of the shell, I'm not saying it couldn't happen with the 590 but the dual extractors might help.
Maybe, but that shell would most likely still be stuck.
@@hrfunk Probably, it took a wooden dowel to get it out. In a less severe case I think the dual extractors could help.
I also think a lot of why 590A1 feels less maneuverable has to do with the heavier barrel combined with the extra overall length, a regular 590 barrel feels better to me when transitioning from target to target.
If I bought a new 590A1 it will outlast me based on my expected future life.
What about all of the light primer strikes from mossberg 590,500,88 but mostly the 590 and the weak prong trigger group on the 500
The first firearm I ever fired was a Mossberg 22LR bolt action that I got my Boy Scout Merit badge with in the 60s, believe it or not Boy Scouts used to teach shooting. That being said I worked as an instructor teaching skeet and trap at a range that feature Remington 870s, 1100s and 3200 O/U for rent, so I got to see how reliable they were even under the worst conditions. When I went on the Police dept we trained on 870s and they were even more resilient considering that during training 250 men had to qualify on only the same 10 870s. So I might be a little bias, even though I’m left handed and like the safety on the Mossberg, I found that holding the pistol grip with my left hand with my middle finger wrapped around the trigger guard allowed instant access to the safety and also protected the trigger from twigs and branches when hunting in thick woods. While the department did not believe in over arming us, as a Swat member we would occasionally get called out on stakeouts, where it would have to double as a rifle for longer distances using slugs, again I like the 870 better as you noted the forend is much tighter on the gun when trying to aim at a smaller distant target it just feels steadier. One of the things I really liked was how easily it could be unloaded, which has to happen every time you use it and don’t shoot it. With the safety on, and holding the gun with your left hand wrapped around the receiver with your left index finger where the magazine tube meets the receiver, push the slide release and slowly start sliding the bolt towards its open position. You will be able to see the shell in the chamber come out of the chamber and start to tilt out of the ejection port to were you can easily remove it. Without sliding the slide back any further reach into the loading gate pushing the gate in towards the bolt. Now continue bringing the slide back to the fully open position and the first round in the magazine will be ejected out of the loading port w/o having to be chambered. Remove that round and with your index finger reach inside the edge of the magazine tube, you will find two catches one on each side of the tube, push them back and the second round in the magazine will eject out of the loading port, continue same procedure until magazine is empty. Being able to unload gun without having to rack the live shells through the chamber, especially in public won me over. Not that there is anything wrong with the Mossberg.
Agreed! As I mentioned to someone else, I should have demonstrated that unloading technique. Maybe I’ll make it the subject of a short video in the future. Thanks for watching and thanks for a GREAT comment!
But the 870 failed the military 3,000 round slug test and the Mossberg 590A1 passed, there's your answer
Really? You mean it failed the test it was never entered in?
@@hrfunk wow I must have hit a nerve or something you don't have to be so mad my God calm down
have you tried out any new 870s? made in the last 2 years? I've heard rumors remington has gone down in quality i wonder if their 870s were
effected..
The last brand new 870’s I had any experience with were some of the 14” models acquired for our tactical team. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago, and they were great little shotguns. The quality was the same as I’ve come to expect with the 870P over the years I’ve used it. I have not handled a brand new one in the last year or two.
Bought an 870 new 3 years ago. Quality is in the toilet. To be fair I have not shot a new Mossberg but I am going to buy soon and get rid of the 870. I'd buy an older used 870 without hesitation.
May I ask what is wrong with your new 870?
@@hrfunk The overall quality has gone downhill. Fit and finish is marginal. Sharp edges, rough action. Mine has not gotten much better after almost 400 rounds through it. The magazine cap is not a screw in piece it is a friction fit with stamped detents. Pain in rear to remove and install. I have an older 870 that has no issues but it is a 2 3/4 receiver and I wanted something in 3". I have looked at new 500's and they have gone downhill a little but not like a Remington IMO. I will probably purchase a new 500 in the near future. If I were to buy another 870 It would be an older gun only.
There are a LOT of used, older 870’s out there. You might want to hold off until you can find one.
Great review
My Vang comped 870 police shoots #00 into a 36" circle at 50 yards. Mossberg can't compete. I prefer to operate my Remmy.
Kudos! great presentation!
Thank you!
it is easy too change the safety with a left operated one, i am a right handed shooter,but has changed mine to a large domed one. it's fast and you dont need to use the fingertip. so now it is even faster than a thumb safety.
I am very diappointed with this review. You did not evaluate both shotguns with the TV and movie loading technique whereby the shotgun is cycled with one hand in the vertical position by grasping only the forestock and rapidly moving that hand up and down. (BTW, when this is done on TV it apparently does not work, because in the next scene it is performed again and no shell from the previous racking is ejected.) FYI: This is referred to as the One Hand Gravity Assist Inertia TV Reload.I will gladly contibute a few months of Netflix so you can lern the proper way to handle a shotgun.... like the TV actors. Please perform the one-hand-TV-rack-loading-make-that-chambering-noise-technique, which apaprently scares the adversary. Thank you.
I am so sorry! I will study that technique and practice it exhaustively so I can perform it in a future video!
I second this sentiment . The entertainment industry informs all of my important life decisions :)
I have that same 590A1! Including the stock with shell holders and the bayonet lug. First gun I ever bought. I used to take it skeet shooting. The guys at the range thought it was weird, but they let me go ahead.
Good for you! I hope it worked well.
What’s the difference between Remington 870 police or the Remington 870 Express Magnum? I have the Remington express magnum purchased around 2004, before the financial troubles began. Thank you.
The differences are mainly in finish, quality control, and things like a metal fire control housing as opposed to polymer, and of course the magazine. The basic design is the same.
Wow great vid...now I am even more conflicted on wich one to get ... I am really thinking I will get the 870 police Magnum a little cheaper on Gun Broker right now... Length of pull & barrel length is better for inside the house...
I've had two 870's and, I must admit, I have had nothing but reliability issues with them. They both fail to eject shells and are extremly finicky with the ammo used. My Mossberg 590A1 has performed flawlessly. I love the gun and would trust my life with it. It feeds anything I put through it and is built like a tank. If I could get my hands on an older 870 I'd be willing to give it a try.
Joe Ruggiero same boat. I’ve had 4 different 870’s and all had something wrong. I had more luck with a Chinese 870 clone. The finish sucked but it was 100% reliable. Got a 590a1 now and have had zero issues
9:38 why nobody else is talking about it? It’s huge!
I don’t know. I discovered it by accident when it happened to the shotgun in the video.
Good information friend👍
when I bought a combat shotgun , what made me pick the Mossberg was the shell extractor on the 870 the extractor is welded in the 590 is screwed in allowing field service, I like the Finnish on your 870 by the way
I believe you mean the ejector. In any case, have you ever seen one fail on an 870?
yes your right and no i have not heard but I still like the idea of not having to send a gun back to the mfg@@hrfunk
I've had an 870 express for a long time. As a lefty I got used to clicking the safety off with my left thumb. I recently fixed that and made it a lefty safety.
I use my trigger finger to disengage the safety. I can't envision how you did it with your left thumb. Can you tell me?
@@hrfunk welcome to adapting to a right handed world as a lefty. Pick up a right handed 870 with your left hand on behind the trigger. There was only one way I naturally saw to press the safety. With my thumb before I shoulder the gun. It's not as crazy as it sounds. I've been safe.
@@mjc4942 OK, I get it now. Thank you!
My first shotgun was a Mossberg 500 but I grew attached to the 870 after becoming a Correctional Officer. Having owned both I prefer the 870 over the 500 series. It's nothing against Mossberg I think they are great shotguns but after spending so much time with the 870 its muscle memory. Example my step-father joined me for shooting clays using my Mossberg 20 ga but he was so used to shooting an A5 that when he hit the first clay he kept pulling the trigger due to using a semi-auto shotgun for decades
Watched your two videos on the 870 vs. The Mossberg 590A1, & enjoyed them greatly. I commented earlier but couldn't locate my comment, so I wanted to let you know my choice--since it was largely due to the videos, and your gracious reply to my questions. I chose the Rem. 870 in the "Deerslayer" model. I think that was its designation. It's got the 20" smoothbore barrel with IC permanent choke and open sights. I didn't like the "tactical" furniture on the tac model, and I knew I would want a model with iron sights. I didn't care so much about a high capacity magazine tube (this one has a 4 round tubular mag. plus 1 in the chamber), since I'm not an LEO. The good thing is I can carry this in the forest (I live in Payson, AZ, which is in the Tonto National Forest and has lots of wildlife, including numerous coyotes, mountain lion, bear, etc. That was more the basis for my choice than two legged predators.
All this to say THANK YOU for your advice. I appreciate it deeply. Keep up with the videos. They are GREAT.
Thank you for the kind words. You chose a great all-around shotgun. It should serve your purposes very well. I hope you enjoy it! Tak care.
I love the Winchester 1300 or Sxp but they are not lefty friendly.
I have a Mossy 590A1 SPX. I'm a Southpaw and have some real advantages running a pump.
Nobody can deny both are amazing shotguns. Personally I like the controls of the Mossberg more and that's why I prefer it...but if I had a need for 2 shotguns and had extra money I'd own both.
To be fair, on mossy It’s steel on steel lock up though as far as the aluminum receiver is concerned. The 18.5 barrel 590a1 weighs 6.3 lbs, which is significantly lighter.