Diamonds are where it's at, yo Weird fox clip is from Nigel and Marmalade, a shorts series made by Tom Bates. I'd highly recommend it! Credit: • Nigel and Marmalade he...
The shitty thing is zoning that. Until there's a diagonal zoning tool and building tool I'll have to stick to squares for my sanity. But it is quite smart actually. Using less material means faster to build and less wealth to attract raiders.
@@vasianduban9995 Well, designator shapes does 50% or even less for this purpose. If you try building with it - all walls are conected to each over twice, while here they`re only touching corners
Things you should be mindful of though, roofs are only supported by any solid block up 7 tiles away, the template shown at 0:27 would require additional walls or columns to support the inner section of roof, also diagonal walls are less thermally insulative which should be kept in mind for any area temperature wants regulating, such as a fridge, greenhouse or pawn bedrooms or breweries
When I built 'diamond' structures in the past it had terrible insulation and heating and cooling were always at full blast. In my test this could be fixed by layering more walls around it, but this kind of defeats the pro of it being a cheap space. And where double walling a square room is cheap, achieving the same insulation in a diamond room is a bit of work. Unless they have semi-recently changed this. Would like to see it tested more.
I have tested it. The corners count as full walls for insulation. What might have happened in your case is the space was waaaay bigger than your square room. When I first built one of these I was stunned at how much they increase the room size. I had to up my heating/cooling setups too. Either way, rest assured because the weird, almost non-existant corners currently _do_ provide the full insulation a solid wall would. Unless you have a mod that changes that...
@@VenomSteakI think you are mistaken. The diagonal tiles provide insulation yes but you lose out the corners and decreases overall insulation. I think this is a trade-off situation not a complete win-win. Btw love the vids keep up the good work
@@KvotheP Sometimes I am wrong. But I made sure to test this one. No corners offers the same insulation as full corners. The only time you see more insulation is when you double up on walls.
Oh Venom it's... it's so beautiful Now build a whole base that way! It works! Diamonds fit perfectly together just like squares do. Go on, embrace true perfection.
I actually got the idea from one of OneHunchMan's streams last year. I think it was Wrigleypuff building a diamond room. Finally have some time for videos again, so here we are!
@@VenomSteak yeah, it's over for me, too. I went full MF because I thought it was a one-way trip. Now I'm all slimy O, sing a song of Balduran Who founded Baldur's Gate Empire golden built on trade Could not avert his fate
Insolation is somewhat worse than in usual shapes. I tested it with same amount of inside space. I think it is because heat exchange works from a wall in all (4) ways if it is possible (i`m sure it doesn`t transfer from wall to wall). So square wall only conducts heat from inside to outside and outside to inside once, while diagonal wall has 2 "walls" inside and 2 outside, so it transfers heat twice as effective
Your furniture can be set on fire by raiders in this setup. I know from practice - had too many runs on Sea Ice and had too many research table lost to fire because of this trick... Otherwise great setup, I played too many square bases, so for my current Sea Ice Naked Challenge run I decided to build a Circle base. Actually it is quite cozy. On day 300 already, love it so far. Had posted first 100 days already :)
Same goes for Melee Attacks, they can attack through the Corners. You can setup a Melee only Killbox if you do it right with some open Doors in the Middle
@@fuchsmichael93 exactly! Had this exact killbox in my current Sea Ice Naked Brutality Challenge run. Added it in second episode of the series, - editing it right now :) First episode is already live. This killbox is one of my favourite early game killboxess, because of how cheap and efficient it is
@@AshGamingTales Only used it once in a Melee only Colony for the early Industrial Time. Though one Warlord (VE Psycast) was enough with his double Attackspeed and Damage. It was almost like Cheating
I'm also playing a sea-ice run (researching for a future vid), and also using a circle base. Circle is just too good. Might have to do a vide on that too.
The corners don't affecf insulation, but I've seen enemies attack through them and pawns try to medic through them. Some weird interactions happen in corners.
Appreciate the tip but I build bases to be walled, fortified and defended at all costs. If I need more space on sea ice or extreme desert, where I have no materials, I will consider this. But most of the time, if I need more room, I will chop down another tree and build a bigger wooden cube.
I've always thought rimworld base design was always so brutalist, removing aesthetic replacing it greater efficiency. And I do agree to it especially when ur going for a really big base that needs less time running arround, but since you can do whatever in rimworld anyways I never built just boxes for rooms in rimworld, it looks so bland, I always do asymmetrical building especially if it fits my ideology.
I favor function a lot of times but it's mostly bc I play on Losing is Fun. It's tough to get by on nice-looking things. BUT I still appreciate them, and I'm real glad you do too.
You can get economy, nutrition, and sucurity handled without being an effiency nerd, in fact, the ai is so explotable that being super efficient is just try harding
You can take my hexagonal lotus starfort when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. And even then, good luck. Because planning and building it would have caused carpal tunnel in my cold, dead hands.
If anyone's curious as to why it works, shortly said, it has something to do with the fact that a diagonal of the square is sqrt(2), therefore longer than its side and also instead of taking one whole cell for the building's frame (a 12x12 frame gives you 11x11 of space inside it) it takes half a cell (halve a cell on its diagonal and those two halves are either the building frame's inside space and outside space. It's more complicated than that naturally and has integer rounding because Rimworld uses cells, which is precisely why this works.
I suppose in this case its the funny mechanics of square cells. Square layouts: 12x12 frames -> 11x11 internal space 1 unit of the cell's side length (Internal space)_squares = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2 (Internal space)_squares = (11 * 1)^2 (Internal space)_squares = 121 Whereas with... Diagonal layouts: 12x12 frames -> 11.5x11.5 internal space (because of the half-in-and-out-per-cell explanation) √2 unit of the cell's diagonal length (Internal space)_diagonals = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2 (Internal space)_diagonals = (11.5 * √2)^2 (Internal space)_diagonals = 264.5 And if you round that up, you get 265. But since Rimworld deals with square things, you can see how the game treats the half-a-cell thing by using empirical numbers (Internal space)_diagonals = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2 265 = (numbers of cell used * √2)^2 Number of cells used = √265 / √2 Number of cells used = 11.5106443...so on, so forth Therefore, the game actually took more inside than outside space per cell. And the 219% increase stems from the notion where if the sides, say of a square, increases, then the area it makes also increases by a squared amount. So: Improvement percentage from squares = ((Diagonal cells used * Diagonal effective length)/(Square cells used * Square effective length))^2 Improvement = ((11.5106 * √2)/(11 * 1))^2 Improvement = 2.1890 or 218.9%# 218.9% or 219% if you wanna round up. There are probably more ways to use this diagonal mechanic so it's funny to see more ideas from this. @@VenomSteak
I think this is good as a central grow zone where things won't change much but the idea of connecting multiple of these and making zones for them all and properly fitting all I need along a diagonal wall is too much
I'm good on materials thank you, i rather satisfy my ocd. Speaking of ocd, geothermal generators are 6×6 and produce exactly 3600 watts constantly with no variation. Mechanator band nodes are 2×2 and take 300 watts of power. Meaning you can put 12 band nodes symmetrically around a geothermal plant for a constant 12 bandwidth. May it be 3 lining each edge, or 3 in each corner.
I seen something similar to this a few years back but they used octagon shaped buildings. I'm thinking hexagons are the way to go. Everybody know hexagons are the bestagons.
Hm... I immediately thought that if you make it 2 thick for isolation and protection it will be way more materials, but it is actually 4 tiles less somehow. Now this isn't as easily placed and expanded upon and the roof will be even more fragile since you need a center column or wall to hold it up and if that breaks form a droppod raid or something everything crumbles quite literally. On top of that all bigger buildings are rectangular so they do not fit in at all so it would be reasonable to assume that this is not actually worth it even if you put up with the tedium of constructing it. And the there's the problem that you can't use it as a killbox setup since you just get less cover yourself or give your opponent cover depending on how you build your killbox, which is also true if you fight on the outside of your base since it is practically made out of half cover. But maybe it will just work out somehow so I will test this next time I start a new colony and idk build a box around it for breachraids or something. Or mybe hexagons as a compromise and I'll make black and yellow coloured people who I pretend are bumblebees or whatever XD
So this video is pretty old. In that time, I've discovered that star forts are pretty much the best thing I've ever tried. The center of my base is a massive (I think) 17x17 circle. the rest of the base is designed around that, reaching out in four main directions and connected by auxillary rooms to join the four arms together. This is then surrounded by a protective layer of wall in a "Star Fort" formation, making it really difficult for raiders to penetrate. And if they do, there's plenty of cover to surround and annihilate any breachers. So far, this is THE best base I have ever built for defense. Might just have to post it in the community tab so you can see.
I've noticed that fire can spread through the gaps, I would advise not to do this to anything that you want to protect fire from. Specifically, a geothermal plant that was surrounded by walls, I figured I can save wealth by trimming the edges, but nope, it got burnt!
It is very cheesy to do, honestly, also looks horrid, so I wont be using it It would be an interesting concept to do a total "minmax" playthrough where you use every trick possible to keep wealth low and productivity of your base high I personally dont even use killboxes cuz of cheese, so someone else can take the idea from me free of charge
reject walls, embrace Mountain Home, walls are free and bug meat is plenty
Rock. And. STONE.
@@VenomSteak DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE
@@Gordon519 DID SOMEBODY SAY ROCK AND STONE
@@RayneRaven ROCK AND STONE BROTHA
ROCK AND STONE...TO THE BONE @@kombuchaman01
Yeah, a LOT more space, but my brain is screaming....
What if I linked like 7 of them together into a hideous, segmented diamond base?
@@VenomSteak pls no
Trade in efficiency for psychic damage
Psychic drones when they see this abomination of a base design in a "psychological damage" competition:
@@VenomSteak Ok so I agree with original commentor but I really want to see this lmao
The open gaps trigger tremendous distress in my smooth ADHD brain.
All those jagged corners should give your noggin some wrinkles
Not building corners is a crime where I come from
They call me the "Crime Committer"
My brain: let him cook...
My heart: if you dont stop I will stop!
11x11 Squares are fucking awesome...
They are, and I made a whole video on how pretty they are if you want to look that up. I just think the diamond needs its due.
The shitty thing is zoning that. Until there's a diagonal zoning tool and building tool I'll have to stick to squares for my sanity.
But it is quite smart actually. Using less material means faster to build and less wealth to attract raiders.
Designator Shapes , that is mod that will help you with that lol
@@vasianduban9995 Well, designator shapes does 50% or even less for this purpose. If you try building with it - all walls are conected to each over twice, while here they`re only touching corners
Things you should be mindful of though, roofs are only supported by any solid block up 7 tiles away, the template shown at 0:27 would require additional walls or columns to support the inner section of roof, also diagonal walls are less thermally insulative which should be kept in mind for any area temperature wants regulating, such as a fridge, greenhouse or pawn bedrooms or breweries
@dalf_souls2199 this whole video is outdated. Didn't know fire could spread thru corners!!
@@VenomSteak Me neither, good info
Okay but counter argument: I don't like how it looks.
When I built 'diamond' structures in the past it had terrible insulation and heating and cooling were always at full blast. In my test this could be fixed by layering more walls around it, but this kind of defeats the pro of it being a cheap space. And where double walling a square room is cheap, achieving the same insulation in a diamond room is a bit of work.
Unless they have semi-recently changed this. Would like to see it tested more.
I have tested it. The corners count as full walls for insulation. What might have happened in your case is the space was waaaay bigger than your square room.
When I first built one of these I was stunned at how much they increase the room size. I had to up my heating/cooling setups too. Either way, rest assured because the weird, almost non-existant corners currently _do_ provide the full insulation a solid wall would.
Unless you have a mod that changes that...
@@VenomSteakI think you are mistaken. The diagonal tiles provide insulation yes but you lose out the corners and decreases overall insulation. I think this is a trade-off situation not a complete win-win. Btw love the vids keep up the good work
@@KvotheP Sometimes I am wrong. But I made sure to test this one. No corners offers the same insulation as full corners. The only time you see more insulation is when you double up on walls.
@@KvothePAnd hey, I really appreciate it. I will keep the vids coming!
You've finally seen the light. I have and always will make oddly shaped rooms 🔷
that's still a square, at worse it's a rhombus, you can also just chuck a statue or a horseshoe pin in that corner
A rhombus? HOW DARE YOU it's clearly a diamond
Looks > Efficiency any day of the week. Same reason I hate killboxes.
It's your right
Dude be building like he's playing rust. 😅
You get extra effectivness sacrificing free space. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes...
If you want to use less space, you can always shrink them down.
This is why hexagons are the bestagons!
Billion bees can not bee wrong.
Oh Venom it's... it's so beautiful
Now build a whole base that way! It works! Diamonds fit perfectly together just like squares do. Go on, embrace true perfection.
I actually got the idea from one of OneHunchMan's streams last year. I think it was Wrigleypuff building a diamond room. Finally have some time for videos again, so here we are!
@@VenomSteak yeah, it's over for me, too. I went full MF because I thought it was a one-way trip. Now I'm all slimy
O, sing a song of Balduran
Who founded Baldur's Gate
Empire golden built on trade
Could not avert his fate
A square building.....but the corners are inward
FABULOUS ARCHITECTURE
Production value going up!
Insolation is somewhat worse than in usual shapes. I tested it with same amount of inside space. I think it is because heat exchange works from a wall in all (4) ways if it is possible (i`m sure it doesn`t transfer from wall to wall). So square wall only conducts heat from inside to outside and outside to inside once, while diagonal wall has 2 "walls" inside and 2 outside, so it transfers heat twice as effective
Reject normal square, embrace side square
Your furniture can be set on fire by raiders in this setup. I know from practice - had too many runs on Sea Ice and had too many research table lost to fire because of this trick...
Otherwise great setup, I played too many square bases, so for my current Sea Ice Naked Challenge run I decided to build a Circle base.
Actually it is quite cozy. On day 300 already, love it so far.
Had posted first 100 days already :)
Same goes for Melee Attacks, they can attack through the Corners. You can setup a Melee only Killbox if you do it right with some open Doors in the Middle
@@fuchsmichael93 exactly! Had this exact killbox in my current Sea Ice Naked Brutality Challenge run.
Added it in second episode of the series, - editing it right now :) First episode is already live.
This killbox is one of my favourite early game killboxess, because of how cheap and efficient it is
@@AshGamingTales Only used it once in a Melee only Colony for the early Industrial Time. Though one Warlord (VE Psycast) was enough with his double Attackspeed and Damage. It was almost like Cheating
@@fuchsmichael93 that sounds OP :D
I'm also playing a sea-ice run (researching for a future vid), and also using a circle base. Circle is just too good. Might have to do a vide on that too.
The corners don't affecf insulation, but I've seen enemies attack through them and pawns try to medic through them. Some weird interactions happen in corners.
You built different
My next playthrough I'll have to build a base using this method, thanks for the tip!
I'll be using this form now for sure
Technically they are still squares. They are just tilted.
Heresy!
@@VenomSteak Ok now YOU'RE tilted. ;)
Appreciate the tip but I build bases to be walled, fortified and defended at all costs. If I need more space on sea ice or extreme desert, where I have no materials, I will consider this. But most of the time, if I need more room, I will chop down another tree and build a bigger wooden cube.
I personally prefer squares for the easy defensive. More wall per room means more walls they have to chew through before hitting something vital.
I've always thought rimworld base design was always so brutalist, removing aesthetic replacing it greater efficiency. And I do agree to it especially when ur going for a really big base that needs less time running arround, but since you can do whatever in rimworld anyways I never built just boxes for rooms in rimworld, it looks so bland, I always do asymmetrical building especially if it fits my ideology.
I favor function a lot of times but it's mostly bc I play on Losing is Fun. It's tough to get by on nice-looking things. BUT I still appreciate them, and I'm real glad you do too.
You can get economy, nutrition, and sucurity handled without being an effiency nerd, in fact, the ai is so explotable that being super efficient is just try harding
Doing this making a diamond grid base, its pretty comfy.
You can take my hexagonal lotus starfort when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
And even then, good luck.
Because planning and building it would have caused carpal tunnel in my cold, dead hands.
Honestly, can't you make a starfort out of mashing a bunch of diamonds together? I think you can!
Next time I feel squares are getting too bland, I'll try this out.
If anyone's curious as to why it works, shortly said, it has something to do with the fact that a diagonal of the square is sqrt(2), therefore longer than its side and also instead of taking one whole cell for the building's frame (a 12x12 frame gives you 11x11 of space inside it) it takes half a cell (halve a cell on its diagonal and those two halves are either the building frame's inside space and outside space. It's more complicated than that naturally and has integer rounding because Rimworld uses cells, which is precisely why this works.
So .any of rimworlds exploits come from unaccounted for math complexites.
I suppose in this case its the funny mechanics of square cells.
Square layouts:
12x12 frames -> 11x11 internal space
1 unit of the cell's side length
(Internal space)_squares = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2
(Internal space)_squares = (11 * 1)^2
(Internal space)_squares = 121
Whereas with...
Diagonal layouts:
12x12 frames -> 11.5x11.5 internal space (because of the half-in-and-out-per-cell explanation)
√2 unit of the cell's diagonal length
(Internal space)_diagonals = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2
(Internal space)_diagonals = (11.5 * √2)^2
(Internal space)_diagonals = 264.5
And if you round that up, you get 265.
But since Rimworld deals with square things, you can see how the game treats the half-a-cell thing by using empirical numbers
(Internal space)_diagonals = (number of cells used * length of the side of a cell)^2
265 = (numbers of cell used * √2)^2
Number of cells used = √265 / √2
Number of cells used = 11.5106443...so on, so forth
Therefore, the game actually took more inside than outside space per cell.
And the 219% increase stems from the notion where if the sides, say of a square, increases, then the area it makes also increases by a squared amount. So:
Improvement percentage from squares = ((Diagonal cells used * Diagonal effective length)/(Square cells used * Square effective length))^2
Improvement = ((11.5106 * √2)/(11 * 1))^2
Improvement = 2.1890 or 218.9%#
218.9% or 219% if you wanna round up.
There are probably more ways to use this diagonal mechanic so it's funny to see more ideas from this.
@@VenomSteak
@@thepruh1151 If you liked that, you're gonna love what you can do with cows and nutrient paste
@@VenomSteak Oh yeah, I've seen your video on that as well. The short form videos of random stuff from Rimworld are greatly appreciated.
…it hurts… the spaces between the walls…
I think this is good as a central grow zone where things won't change much but the idea of connecting multiple of these and making zones for them all and properly fitting all I need along a diagonal wall is too much
at that point, embrace Bee, make hexagon
I need to try hexagon. So many shapes beyond square..
Reject square. Embrace...other square
*DIAMOND*
I'm good on materials thank you, i rather satisfy my ocd.
Speaking of ocd, geothermal generators are 6×6 and produce exactly 3600 watts constantly with no variation.
Mechanator band nodes are 2×2 and take 300 watts of power.
Meaning you can put 12 band nodes symmetrically around a geothermal plant for a constant 12 bandwidth.
May it be 3 lining each edge, or 3 in each corner.
Oh man yhis seems really cool, i sure cant wait to try it o-
The combat extended modpack that i have absolutely obliterated my game with: nuh uh
I just know it's something to do with the goofy corners
I seen something similar to this a few years back but they used octagon shaped buildings. I'm thinking hexagons are the way to go.
Everybody know hexagons are the bestagons.
I need to try hexagons sometime. They make sense, they are modular after all.
Reject square! Embrace… square!
_Diamond_ completely different
you also getting better cover if you have diagonal cover cuz you would have 3 covers instead of 1 that is just infront of you , very busted
What about roofing? You'd need columns in the middle, right? Unlike the 11x11
I'll just point out the fact that the alternative you to squares you show here are still squares 💀
If I'm not wrong that's diamond shaped
Gasp, I've been found out!
*Averts eyes*
I'll pray for you
One main problem is fire , it could jump through this wall easily
Yeah, for that EXACT reason I'm thinking of pulling this vid. Kinda big oversight on my part.
Rimworld got Rotated xD
Hm... I immediately thought that if you make it 2 thick for isolation and protection it will be way more materials, but it is actually 4 tiles less somehow.
Now this isn't as easily placed and expanded upon and the roof will be even more fragile since you need a center column or wall to hold it up and if that breaks form a droppod raid or something everything crumbles quite literally.
On top of that all bigger buildings are rectangular so they do not fit in at all so it would be reasonable to assume that this is not actually worth it even if you put up with the tedium of constructing it.
And the there's the problem that you can't use it as a killbox setup since you just get less cover yourself or give your opponent cover depending on how you build your killbox, which is also true if you fight on the outside of your base since it is practically made out of half cover.
But maybe it will just work out somehow so I will test this next time I start a new colony and idk build a box around it for breachraids or something. Or mybe hexagons as a compromise and I'll make black and yellow coloured people who I pretend are bumblebees or whatever XD
So this video is pretty old. In that time, I've discovered that star forts are pretty much the best thing I've ever tried.
The center of my base is a massive (I think) 17x17 circle. the rest of the base is designed around that, reaching out in four main directions and connected by auxillary rooms to join the four arms together. This is then surrounded by a protective layer of wall in a "Star Fort" formation, making it really difficult for raiders to penetrate. And if they do, there's plenty of cover to surround and annihilate any breachers.
So far, this is THE best base I have ever built for defense. Might just have to post it in the community tab so you can see.
@@VenomSteak Yeah I would be rather interested in that, just to see how it works and what the up and downsides are.
Reject square join rotated square
I've noticed that fire can spread through the gaps, I would advise not to do this to anything that you want to protect fire from. Specifically, a geothermal plant that was surrounded by walls, I figured I can save wealth by trimming the edges, but nope, it got burnt!
Yeah. I realized this after the fact as well. Honestly considering pulling this vid, because that's a HUGE oversight.
Honestly if I had to choose between diagonal walls and being an enslaved furry I’d rather do the latter
I'm sorry, what?
Logically wouldn't it be affected by outside temperatures more because each block has 2 surfaces to pass the temperature through?
I think the diagonals between the walls aint fire proof tho
Good opinion, but consider the following: both options look like shit when they are repated on half of the map
Why am I here? I don't even like killboxes
this is a crime
that is just a square but tilted 45 degrees
Can things attack through the empty corners of walls? 🤔
yes lol
But you can attack out of them too. This is a well documented way of creating murder holes and 'arrow slits'.
@@girlbuu9403 I sees. Sounds unsafe to me. LOL I'm still a fairly new player, so I'm getting used to all the quirks.
@@Runzu87 To attack through they have to be standing next to it. So you won't get sniped from across the map or anything.
@@girlbuu9403 Oh, okay. Thanks. That's really helpful! 👍🏿
I tested this. It doesn't work anymore.
But also you have to look at it
Extremely high surface area makes it hard to control temperatures
Not if you reduce the size. You'll still get the same room size, but for less material. That's what makes it so strong.
0:40 "venom being based" moment
i am too lazy to that. haha
There are a mod for diagonal walls
@@mr.deadwish1666
designator shapes
my beloved
its still a square....
When you get bored and made another meta based video
It's still square, you just rotate it 90°
Yeah... im not doing that.
No worries
@hirsuta Knows all about the weird diamond thing
Yessssssssss
Always good to hear from you two
But wouldn't you have to spend more resouces on flooring though?
Yeah, I suppose you would. Ah well. About time to revise this take anyways.
Is it not technically still a square
I am more curious about the "whatever you need" room. What mod was that? for research purposes of curse.
Ahahah Its just normal slaves. It's just the room where the slaves sleep. If I'm not mistaken they added slaves in the first DLC
Huh. Whatcha researching then?
It is very cheesy to do, honestly, also looks horrid, so I wont be using it
It would be an interesting concept to do a total "minmax" playthrough where you use every trick possible to keep wealth low and productivity of your base high
I personally dont even use killboxes cuz of cheese, so someone else can take the idea from me free of charge
I'm doing it now, using a ton of awful tricks. It's going fantastic. RR LiF can't even touch my base.
Square bad!
Rotate square 45°
Sideways square better!
This guy gets it
Hey can you make Joe Swanson voice line?
Huh I always built like this lol
Glorious.
While i like to tryout different room forms, I think cutting edges is just ugly.
It's ugly. The question you have to ask is, is it worth it?
❤
But 11… fuck.
@seanheisey8645 I actually changed my mind. Most recent playthrough every this is 11x11 with star fortress fortification along the rim :P
Alright but have you considered: that looks ugly and janky as Hell?
Na, I think your profile pic looks fine
Is there a reason you deleted that long, angry comment?
@@VenomSteakit’s not deleted? I can see it just fine.
no
Absurd.
нет
Aw