I've come across clock movements in the condition you describe. DIY Folks don't realize that clock gearing should run dry, yet I've seen either that green goo or just oil all over the movement. Good video. Hopefully folks will take heed.
I'm a newbie heading down the rabbit hole of horology, The first clock I salvaged is a Mauthe wall clock. It passed my inexperienced visual exam and I'm not yet confident enough for a disassembly and re-assembly so I gave it a vat treatment using isopropyl alcohol. It's been ticking and tocking and chiming for a weak now. As I get more experience I will one day disassemble it and clean it properly.
Isopropyl alcohol is probably the safest bet for a dunk method since it's relatively gentle and super evaporative (although it doesn't evaporate as thoroughly as something like denatured alcohol). Since it's a clock you're trying to learn on, there's nothing wrong with trying it and finding out what happens. As long as you know how to do it safely, don't be scared of taking it apart. Just take lots of pictures and make sure you understand what every single piece does. If you truly understand it, you don't need notes, pictures, or anything else (but they do make the process faster). Keep it up! It's a super fun hobby!
Best way to reverse this is remove the spring barrels and use warm water and baking soda in a ultra ultrasonic cleaner baking soda will neutralize the acids and ultrasonic cleaner will clean the pivots
The only things that scare me are the handling of the mainsprings that can and are dangerous under tension. I don’t have the special loader unloader tools to safely wind or unwind a mainspring. I also need to learn what gears go where and keep the two separate. There are several tools and parts, that I don’t want to invest in I just want to get a clock to work
That looks like a mass produced German movement. It's cheaper to replace the movement which will cost about $200 $250. depending on the movement. Repairing it as a job would cost a lot more in time not parts. But they are not too bad to work on. the pivots can get a good smooth finish when burnished.
I have a clock I picked up from a thrift store that seems to have had this done to it. Would denatured alcohol remove the ammoniated cleaner and dry relatively well? I saw that elsewhere you mention denatured alcohol as a better cleaner option
Short answer: Yes, denatured alcohol will remove it easily; rubbing alcohol will also remove it (a little less easily, but a little less toxic too). Long answer: The catch with denatured alcohol is that the stuff you get from Home Depot does not evaporate completely (only about 86% will evaporate) - it leaves behind a residue. I'm not sure what it leaves behind - if anyone who's a better chemist than I can give insight, I'd be very interested to know more. Either way, I don't like leaving anything behind in a movement. So whenever using any type of cleaning solution, just be careful to make sure it only goes where it needs to, and then comes back out completely. That's the danger of dunking; particularly with spring barrel movements, there is no way to get the cleaner back out of those barrels without taking them apart; and if you could get it all out, it would leave the springs dry and unoiled.
Vatting a clock !!!! i had never heard of this until you described this, sounds nasty to me if you want a clock to run for years treat it with respect and oil with care "synthetic only" most people now have not got the patience now i suppose i am no expert but i have 5 clocks "including a 80 yr. old longcase" that all work because i care and look after them .
There's a lot of reasons a clock can stop; the best solution is to bring it to a good repair shop since it's sometimes hard to diagnose without seeing it in person. But, can you describe a little more about what's going on?
It would probably get the dirt out and get it running for a while, but with any cleaner, the two problems are that you 1) can't get it all back out (gasoline evaporates fairly quickly but not completely) and 2) you can't get oil back into the mainsprings. I suppose the counter-argument would be that gasoline has some lubricative properties, so it may not be too destructive. The other big problem is that when you dunk the movement, you don't fix any worn components, so they continue to cause either short-term or long-term problems and can ultimately result in very extensive damages if left unaddressed. But most importantly, it can be really dangerous to work with an open vat of gasoline (even static electricity from your socks on the carpet can ignite gasoline). Those are my thoughts. To summarize: it might work, but it's certainly not the best way.
@@LoceneClockworks I have successfully washed movements in petrol (gasoline) and think it is an excellent way for someone to keep their clock going for many years when they are not confident of a complete dismantle - nor wish to spend lots of money on a cheap clock with a professional. I do actually have a video on my channel getting an Ansonia going well by this method. A couple of points though.. *Yes, you need to be safe both from fumes and potential explosions - definitely an outside job! *I've only ever used petrol or brake cleaner and nothing with Ammonia or any other cleaning product that will leave residue. (These solvents I use do not leave any residue which will affect brass). *You can only use this method on clock movements with open mainsprings. *Everything must be rinsed and thoroughly dry before then being carefully oiled. *Petrol/gas does leave a bit of a smell for awhile, but it does fade fairly quickly. *As you mentioned, this method will not fix problems like worn pivots etc (obviously!). So, while it is not the recommended way by clock purists - it is an effective method under the right conditions to be able to bring a lower-end clock movement back to life.
I probably saw the same video. Auto gas is notoriously unstable, turns to jelly so I kind of discounted that guy. Coleman fuel (naphtha) might be better. Also if the clock works are newer there might be plastic parts in there, but don’t know. Typewriters after about 1960 get cheaper, thinner, more plastic parts. 1960 and before they are noticeably more robust. Don’t know if it’s the same on clocks.
@@someonespadre That video was probably mine! I just use the petrol as a solvent to dissolve and wash away the dried old oil. It doesn't leave a jelly of any kind as it's a soak & rinse thing, and then some gentle compressed air to dry. Any residue left is so minor it would never cause issues for a clock. Sure, you would never do it with a watch movement - but a clock is fine! Of course, it would be no good on modern mechanicals with plastic parts. It's also no good to use on a clocks with enclosed mainsprings as you can't 'wash' them out properly and cannot re-lube them as mentioned above. Also, as mentioned this method does not fix any other problems like worn pivots or other mechanical damage/wear. Obviously! And it's flammable, so be sensible! In summary, it is not the best method at all - but it is a way for a non-clock person with limited knowledge and equipment to get some old clocks going that are not worth the expense of a proper/professional service.
The problems with dunking are that 1) it leaves residue, 2) it gets in places where you can't get it out, and 3) you end up missing other issues because you're not using the ol fine-tooth-comb. Naphtha probably evaporates a little cleaner, but you make a very important point that some chemicals can do major damage to plastic parts. @@someonespadre
Have 2 clocks not working, one is a genuine antique, the other a 1960s or 70s Seth-Thomas. So thought I’d buy a cheap not working clock to see if I could get it working. First video, English handyman type person, he says dunk it in gasoline for 2 hours then pull it out and clean. Don’t like that idea very much. Second video, English clock repairman. He says the pivot holes get elongated and the gear wheel gets a little cockeyed then the entire gear train stops, that or a gear tooth is broken somewhere in there. He completely disassembled the clock works, replaced the worn bushing and put it all back together, that is daunting to say the least. Or try to degrease it with something one pivot at a time but it may still not work.
The repair process really depends on a lot of factors and what is wrong. It's true that the pivot holes get wallered out, and fixing them correctly requires a pretty significant repair process and some special tooling. One key rule of thumb is that most of the time, if there is not significant wear, you don't need to disassemble the movement. To tell if there's wear, wiggle the gear train back and forth to see if and of the pivots dance back and forth. If they don't dance much, you don't need to take it apart (unless you want to). Now, if there's major wear on a pivot on a movement that is just for learning, instead of bushing it properly, you can punch the hole (use a sharp punch and use it to close the hole back up). Just be aware that there's a time and place for punching a hole, and it's very rare. Never punch a movement that's antique/valuable. BUT, if there's no major wear, with a little elbow grease and creativity, you can get all the dirt out of the movement without dunking it or taking it apart. Sorry for the rambling. Long story short, there's a lot that goes into getting a clock working, and it really depends on what the issue it. The best thing you can do is put in as much time as it takes to accurately diagnose the issue, and then fix that issue. Hope that helps. Keep it up!
Get a copy of Practical Clock Repairing by Donald de Carle. you can get them second hand. It will tell you everything you need to know from simple repairs to making new parts and a clock. If you want a cheap clock cleaner try Turtle wax car shampoo as it has no solt. just put all the parts in for 3 or 4 hours with hot water. then rinse off under the tap before drying with hot air like a hair dryer. as you have now removed all the oil they will rust in minutes. After that you can pick out all the dirt still left between the teeth and pivot holes there with toothpicks and kitchen towel.
Well for.a start Mr. Clock.makers like yourself.wont.be around for.much longer in some.areas So people will have no choice but to.do the DIY method to get clocks.going again.
With a little patience and a few household cleaning tools, you can actually get them very clean without submerging. For those interested in DIY clock repair, I recommend giving that a try to avoid causing greater issues in the future.
Every one to himself here lol. I suppose there are reasons why one should not attempt to clean or repair any clock, even if you watch YT videos of people doing it professionally as a career/job. If maybe one want to attempt it, use a clock that you know wont work(like im doing now🤣)and have a go at it knowing there isnt anything to lose at all. So i guess a lot of photos in chronological order and keeping the parts together and organised, along with some common sense and close attention to detail😂 dont know what will happen after this attempt at an old cuckoo clock thats been in familly for decades
That’s awesome! That’s exactly how I got pulled in to the business. A family clock broke and wasn’t going to get worse by me working on it, so I gave it a shot and got hooked. I think it’s great when my customers give it a try - best case, it works and you have fun in the process; worst case, you can’t fix it and have to take it to someone anyway. My biggest recommendation is to just not do anything permanent (like cutting, bending, modifying, etc.). Have fun! Feel free to reply back if you get stumped.
@@loganm2881 lol yeah im only trying because im into miniature things like my model hobby trains making me used to working with small things. So for clocks ill be testing the waters a short while, then see how it goes😁
I've come across clock movements in the condition you describe. DIY Folks don't realize that clock gearing should run dry, yet I've seen either that green goo or just oil all over the movement. Good video. Hopefully folks will take heed.
I'm a newbie heading down the rabbit hole of horology, The first clock I salvaged is a Mauthe wall clock. It passed my inexperienced visual exam and I'm not yet confident enough for a disassembly and re-assembly so I gave it a vat treatment using isopropyl alcohol. It's been ticking and tocking and chiming for a weak now. As I get more experience I will one day disassemble it and clean it properly.
Isopropyl alcohol is probably the safest bet for a dunk method since it's relatively gentle and super evaporative (although it doesn't evaporate as thoroughly as something like denatured alcohol). Since it's a clock you're trying to learn on, there's nothing wrong with trying it and finding out what happens.
As long as you know how to do it safely, don't be scared of taking it apart. Just take lots of pictures and make sure you understand what every single piece does. If you truly understand it, you don't need notes, pictures, or anything else (but they do make the process faster).
Keep it up! It's a super fun hobby!
Best way to reverse this is remove the spring barrels and use warm water and baking soda in a ultra ultrasonic cleaner baking soda will neutralize the acids and ultrasonic cleaner will clean the pivots
The only things that scare me are the handling of the mainsprings that can and are dangerous under tension. I don’t have the special loader unloader tools to safely wind or unwind a mainspring. I also need to learn what gears go where and keep the two separate. There are several tools and parts, that I don’t want to invest in I just want to get a clock to work
That looks like a mass produced German movement. It's cheaper to replace the movement which will cost about $200 $250. depending on the movement.
Repairing it as a job would cost a lot more in time not parts.
But they are not too bad to work on. the pivots can get a good smooth finish when burnished.
Absolutely; my recommendation was to replace the movement in this case - although that service is considerably more than $250.
That movement brand new costs like 450-500 dollars
@@Cobesclocks Hermle 1051.020 m Looks like that is one of the most expensive spring Hermle movements at £420 including tax.
I have a clock I picked up from a thrift store that seems to have had this done to it. Would denatured alcohol remove the ammoniated cleaner and dry relatively well? I saw that elsewhere you mention denatured alcohol as a better cleaner option
Short answer: Yes, denatured alcohol will remove it easily; rubbing alcohol will also remove it (a little less easily, but a little less toxic too).
Long answer: The catch with denatured alcohol is that the stuff you get from Home Depot does not evaporate completely (only about 86% will evaporate) - it leaves behind a residue. I'm not sure what it leaves behind - if anyone who's a better chemist than I can give insight, I'd be very interested to know more. Either way, I don't like leaving anything behind in a movement. So whenever using any type of cleaning solution, just be careful to make sure it only goes where it needs to, and then comes back out completely. That's the danger of dunking; particularly with spring barrel movements, there is no way to get the cleaner back out of those barrels without taking them apart; and if you could get it all out, it would leave the springs dry and unoiled.
Vatting a clock !!!! i had never heard of this until you described this, sounds nasty to me if you want a clock to run for years treat it with respect and oil with care "synthetic only" most people now have not got the patience now i suppose i am no expert but i have 5 clocks "including a 80 yr. old longcase" that all work because i care and look after them .
I have a clock with 2 pendulums but it hasn't worked properly for a month with the wobble how to fix it. please reply
There's a lot of reasons a clock can stop; the best solution is to bring it to a good repair shop since it's sometimes hard to diagnose without seeing it in person. But, can you describe a little more about what's going on?
I saw someone on TH-cam that their clock in gasoline what’s your thoughts?
It would probably get the dirt out and get it running for a while, but with any cleaner, the two problems are that you 1) can't get it all back out (gasoline evaporates fairly quickly but not completely) and 2) you can't get oil back into the mainsprings. I suppose the counter-argument would be that gasoline has some lubricative properties, so it may not be too destructive. The other big problem is that when you dunk the movement, you don't fix any worn components, so they continue to cause either short-term or long-term problems and can ultimately result in very extensive damages if left unaddressed. But most importantly, it can be really dangerous to work with an open vat of gasoline (even static electricity from your socks on the carpet can ignite gasoline).
Those are my thoughts. To summarize: it might work, but it's certainly not the best way.
@@LoceneClockworks I have successfully washed movements in petrol (gasoline) and think it is an excellent way for someone to keep their clock going for many years when they are not confident of a complete dismantle - nor wish to spend lots of money on a cheap clock with a professional. I do actually have a video on my channel getting an Ansonia going well by this method. A couple of points though..
*Yes, you need to be safe both from fumes and potential explosions - definitely an outside job!
*I've only ever used petrol or brake cleaner and nothing with Ammonia or any other cleaning product that will leave residue. (These solvents I use do not leave any residue which will affect brass).
*You can only use this method on clock movements with open mainsprings.
*Everything must be rinsed and thoroughly dry before then being carefully oiled.
*Petrol/gas does leave a bit of a smell for awhile, but it does fade fairly quickly.
*As you mentioned, this method will not fix problems like worn pivots etc (obviously!).
So, while it is not the recommended way by clock purists - it is an effective method under the right conditions to be able to bring a lower-end clock movement back to life.
I probably saw the same video. Auto gas is notoriously unstable, turns to jelly so I kind of discounted that guy. Coleman fuel (naphtha) might be better. Also if the clock works are newer there might be plastic parts in there, but don’t know. Typewriters after about 1960 get cheaper, thinner, more plastic parts. 1960 and before they are noticeably more robust. Don’t know if it’s the same on clocks.
@@someonespadre That video was probably mine! I just use the petrol as a solvent to dissolve and wash away the dried old oil. It doesn't leave a jelly of any kind as it's a soak & rinse thing, and then some gentle compressed air to dry. Any residue left is so minor it would never cause issues for a clock. Sure, you would never do it with a watch movement - but a clock is fine! Of course, it would be no good on modern mechanicals with plastic parts. It's also no good to use on a clocks with enclosed mainsprings as you can't 'wash' them out properly and cannot re-lube them as mentioned above. Also, as mentioned this method does not fix any other problems like worn pivots or other mechanical damage/wear. Obviously! And it's flammable, so be sensible!
In summary, it is not the best method at all - but it is a way for a non-clock person with limited knowledge and equipment to get some old clocks going that are not worth the expense of a proper/professional service.
The problems with dunking are that 1) it leaves residue, 2) it gets in places where you can't get it out, and 3) you end up missing other issues because you're not using the ol fine-tooth-comb. Naphtha probably evaporates a little cleaner, but you make a very important point that some chemicals can do major damage to plastic parts. @@someonespadre
Have 2 clocks not working, one is a genuine antique, the other a 1960s or 70s Seth-Thomas. So thought I’d buy a cheap not working clock to see if I could get it working. First video, English handyman type person, he says dunk it in gasoline for 2 hours then pull it out and clean. Don’t like that idea very much. Second video, English clock repairman. He says the pivot holes get elongated and the gear wheel gets a little cockeyed then the entire gear train stops, that or a gear tooth is broken somewhere in there. He completely disassembled the clock works, replaced the worn bushing and put it all back together, that is daunting to say the least. Or try to degrease it with something one pivot at a time but it may still not work.
The repair process really depends on a lot of factors and what is wrong. It's true that the pivot holes get wallered out, and fixing them correctly requires a pretty significant repair process and some special tooling. One key rule of thumb is that most of the time, if there is not significant wear, you don't need to disassemble the movement. To tell if there's wear, wiggle the gear train back and forth to see if and of the pivots dance back and forth. If they don't dance much, you don't need to take it apart (unless you want to). Now, if there's major wear on a pivot on a movement that is just for learning, instead of bushing it properly, you can punch the hole (use a sharp punch and use it to close the hole back up). Just be aware that there's a time and place for punching a hole, and it's very rare. Never punch a movement that's antique/valuable.
BUT, if there's no major wear, with a little elbow grease and creativity, you can get all the dirt out of the movement without dunking it or taking it apart.
Sorry for the rambling. Long story short, there's a lot that goes into getting a clock working, and it really depends on what the issue it. The best thing you can do is put in as much time as it takes to accurately diagnose the issue, and then fix that issue. Hope that helps. Keep it up!
Get a copy of Practical Clock Repairing by Donald de Carle. you can get them second hand. It will tell you everything you need to know from simple repairs to making new parts and a clock. If you want a cheap clock cleaner try Turtle wax car shampoo as it has no solt. just put all the parts in for 3 or 4 hours with hot water. then rinse off under the tap before drying with hot air like a hair dryer. as you have now removed all the oil they will rust in minutes. After that you can pick out all the dirt still left between the teeth and pivot holes there with toothpicks and kitchen towel.
I’m slightly puzzled when you say you are cleaning it the best you can! Why as a professional don’t you just take it apart and clean it properly!!
Well for.a start Mr.
Clock.makers like yourself.wont.be around for.much longer in some.areas
So people will have no choice but to.do the DIY method to get clocks.going again.
With a little patience and a few household cleaning tools, you can actually get them very clean without submerging. For those interested in DIY clock repair, I recommend giving that a try to avoid causing greater issues in the future.
Every one to himself here lol. I suppose there are reasons why one should not attempt to clean or repair any clock, even if you watch YT videos of people doing it professionally as a career/job. If maybe one want to attempt it, use a clock that you know wont work(like im doing now🤣)and have a go at it knowing there isnt anything to lose at all. So i guess a lot of photos in chronological order and keeping the parts together and organised, along with some common sense and close attention to detail😂 dont know what will happen after this attempt at an old cuckoo clock thats been in familly for decades
That’s awesome! That’s exactly how I got pulled in to the business. A family clock broke and wasn’t going to get worse by me working on it, so I gave it a shot and got hooked.
I think it’s great when my customers give it a try - best case, it works and you have fun in the process; worst case, you can’t fix it and have to take it to someone anyway. My biggest recommendation is to just not do anything permanent (like cutting, bending, modifying, etc.). Have fun! Feel free to reply back if you get stumped.
@@loganm2881 lol yeah im only trying because im into miniature things like my model hobby trains making me used to working with small things. So for clocks ill be testing the waters a short while, then see how it goes😁
👍👍👍👍👍👍