I see the Guinness sponsorship hasn't come through yet (no draught tap in the workshop ! ) , As you have said before this is basically a sound machine that just needs the finishing touches added.you should end up with a good quality sound machine at a reasonable cost and in conjunction with the lovely Harrison lathe you will have a well equipped workshop looking forward to tha rebuild good luck.Thank you.
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment. No sponsorship yet, I keep trying! If Banggood made Guinness I think I would be laughing by now! Hopefully if I can get it all back together, it will be a much improved machine lol. Fighting rust today, living in the clouds as we do plays havoc, rust is appearing before my eyes despite liberal coatings of oil everywhere, depressing! Cheers, Jon
Thanks for the video Jon. Good title. Helps anyone doing the same and looking for help find your video. I bet after seeing the inside, you are glad you are doing this. It is a pity that the manufactures trying to cut costs and time building. Having turned what could have been an excellent machine into a mediocre machine needing work. If they took a little more time as you have shown and spent a little more on the bearings the rebuild would not have been needed. Keep safe and stay well.
Hi Colin, thanks for the comment. You're bang on, the 95% done in China is pretty good considering, and it is all lost in the last 5% at the assembly and that is true regardless of if its Cormak, Warco, Chester or whoever. I guess that is why they are cheap and I knew this beforehand and was prepared. It's the guys who don't know this and probably don't have the tools or confidence to fix it I feel sorry for. Hopefully my series of videos may help them out (assuming I manage to get it all back together that is)! Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon,yes all these bottom bearings were the worst with mine too...I ordered bearings a while back but still to be delivered! Did some other work in mean time.I am still not sure if I do the quill bearings now...I test it first on run out.It at least makes a few useful video,s!!
Hi Robert, thanks for the comment. My spindle run-out was bang on, only 0.0001" I could detect, but it felt lumpy on rotation and I have now removed the taper roller bearings and the bore up the quill is full of corrosion and grit which is dropping into the back of the bottom bearing so if yours is the same, it won't last long unfortunately. While you have it in bits it's worth doing based on what I have found. My next video will show the strip down of the quill (pretty straight forward really). Cheers, Jon
Thank you (kind of :-) ) I wondered a long time ago if I should do this job on my mill. I now know what I wished I didn't need to know :-) :-) :-) I'm looking forward to watching the progress. I hope you provide the the bearing numbers and quantities used in the task. Thank you for doing this.
Hi Zen, thanks for the comment. If nothing else you will get a giggle out of my re-build process! There was nothing on YT at the time showing step by step so that's why I went out to a few episodes on this to properly document it (including my errors). I didn't quote the bearing numbers deliberately, there are so many slight variations of these and they do all run different bearings, therefore I avoided sending anyone down the wrong path. They are all common metric sizes available next day usually, and it will take a day to get all the crap out of the head so the most sensible thing is to strip, order, clean and then rebuild. Hope the step by step is useful. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, Really interesting video... you've shown what you get when manufacturing to price rather than quality, however with the skills that you have and some time big improvements will be made and you'll end up with an affordable milling machine that works really well. Take care Paul,,
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Yes, hopefully if I get it all back together again it will be much improved. Couldn't really make it any worse unless I broke something I suppose. Thanks for the support. Cheers, Jon
Hi John, I am an elderly model engineer and have been arranging for new machines from China. I like the look of the CO636B lathe and the same mill as yours. The Lathe is $3050 and the mill is $1450 shipping is around $2-300 and I would have to pick up from Felixstow. Your findings have me very disturbed and I think I need to revise the idea of purchasing from China, I understand that machines from Taiwan are much better constructed but they seem to be impossible to get hold of. I did get similar machines priced from Chester machine tools and they quoted £37,000 for the lathe, mill similar to the Bridgeport, and a small bandsaw. I told them that I wasn't interested in gold-plated machines. If you could advise me as to getting hold of decent machines I would appreciate it very much. I am in my early 80's and still love engineering with an almost complete 3.5 gauge Britannia 70000 made. I enjoy your videos but have only just found your channel. Keep up the good work. regards MoK
Hi Mok, thanks for the comment and support of the channel. This is a difficult subject to give advice on but I will try my best. Chinese stuff is OK if you treat it as a kit of parts, 90% of the job is decent, and they throw it all away with the final assembly! For home shop/model Engineering, they are more than capable but you need to put a couple of weeks work in and a couple of hundred probably on better parts (bearings etc). The only other option is to hold out for some old English machinery, but for the same price range, they will also probably need work and spares can be hard to find and ridiculously expensive sometimes. Chester are just another Chinese importer, and re-badger, you would need to treat them the same as Cormak, Warco or any other (despite their ridiculous quote!!) I realise this won't help you much but there is always good reasons that things are cheap (Chinese or English!!). Cheers, Jon
I replaced the tapered bearings on my spindle and it made a bug difference. Less noise and much better finish. Your unit looks like it has a lower bearing seal, mine did not and had gotten swafs up there. Theres also a elongated round hole on the body of the quill, its a good idea to seal it up, otherwise swarf can enter and fall in the lower bearing.
This is a great video and I'm glad I found it. I just bought a ZAY 7045FG and looks very much like this machine apart from the switch box in front. I have an issue that the spindle/milling tool vibrate and move around quite a bit when in use. Nice and smooth just spinning round without any load on it but vibrates when in use. Even a small 4mm end mill will vibrate on soft mild steel. It's horrible, never seen anything like it. If I go to a 12mm end mill tool, the whole machine vibrate around. The Head, the Table, everything. Does yours do that as well? I'd love a few suggestions. HELP!
Hi Terry, brave or daft as a brush (I know which one I think I fit best). My guiding principle is, as long as I don't break anything through not having all the right gear (hydraulic press etc) then I can't fail to improve it. I will be much happier once I have reassembled to my standards and not the poor state it came in. Cheers, Jon
Hi Simon, don't be put off, all import models regardless of make will be similar. This isn't anything specific to Cormak, it is specific to buying cheap Chinese products (universally), they make them pretty well and ruin them in the last 10 to 15% of the process. As long as you are prepared to put a bit of effort in to fix the sloppy finishing & assembly etc, you end up with a bargain. Cheers, Jon
The spring looks buggered up. The spring housing can be lifted off the main casting and relieve the tension. Remove the center bolt and the assembly can be safely removed
Interesting video, thanks for the insight into the mill, seems well made on the whole apart from the shoddy workmanship thats all to familiar with imported machinery. If your looking for bearing and seals check out The Bearing Boys or Simply Bearings, good prices for known makes (SKF, RHP, etc), no affiliation, just a happy customer.
Hi Pakrattuk, thanks for the comment and advice. I now have all the bearings stripped (lots of bad language in the process), so will definitely be checking out your two suggestions based on yours and others recommendations. Thanks again, Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. That new camera is doing a great job. My Warco lathe was made by the same bloke I reckon 😂. Isn't it a shame that they do a 95% good job then ruin it with the last and most important 5%? So frustrating. Take a look at Yuchol's channel (Woods Creek Machine Shop) when he replaced all the bearings in his lathe. Looking forward to seeing it go back together again. Cheers, Mike
Hi Mike, thanks for the comment. Fully agree, the machining on the whole is pretty good, especially considering where it was all made, and then all sacrificed by sloppy assembly practices where more focus is put on the external cosmetic appearance than the mechanical integrity. Still, can't grumble, it's minimal cost to turn the kit of parts back into a decent bit of kit, just my time which is free anyway. Cheers, Jon
Great video. It aint't my one. Many Chinese mills are based on the same parts. Just changed a gear between the motor gear and the speed selector on an XJ9512D... The gasket is named "Rubber Tray" here. Of coutse it got damaged, got longer, so a replacement is needed. Until it's in my hands the mill is assembled without it. The replced, worned out plastic gear is now a metall gear and the mill sounds like an express train.
Thanks for the video. I might dare doing that after watching your video. My L M H-gear selector i stuck. Haven't used the machine for 20 hours even. 😩 Edit: now there is no gear. Spindle doesn't move at all.
I really got excited as I need to take the head off my AMAT45FG, more or less the same machine. Guess what bit isn't shown at all? Heard you say "you just popped the motor off". I tried that but it lifted about an inch & there seems to be a bearing about an inch down the shaft that stops it, did yours pull through the hole as I didn't want to push it up too hard?
Hi Jon Great video it looks very similar to my warco mill , if it's the same then the 3 small bottom bearings will be a different size to the top 2 small bearings. Was there a lockout on top end of the spindle? If so check it for running true mine screws on like a buckled wheel. Once you undscrew the bottom plate the shaft will knock out, the top outer race will come out with a small puller or knock it out from below, the bottom outer race is a pain I think I'll have to weld a round plate to the race and knock it out from above. Good luck with it looking forward to the next videos. All the best Gary
Hi Gary, thanks for the comment. Spot on, the 3 lower metal shielded ones are different. Yes, there was a preload nut and tab washer, I removed them prior to filming but forgot to mention it. I have all bearings out now and on order (all SKF), I have still to remove the outer race (top and bottom) from the spindle. I was thinking Dremel for the lower one with a fine point and grind a slot in not quite all the way through, followed by some swearing and abuse with a big hammer. I will check out the locknut, didn't notice any wobble on removal so may be OK. Cheers, Jon
Hi Reinier, thanks for the comment and question. No, the motor just comes off with 4 cap head screws, the shaft has a key to drive into the input shaft in the head. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Thanks for the reply. I kind of figured it out. Replaced my 3phase with 1phase. Had to machine the shaft of the 1phase to fit. Will put the 3phase back when I have VFD to run it.
Great video how many hours did you have on the machine when you noticed noise and stuff ? Do you think if they used better quality bearings at the factory it would of lasted longer? I think a snapshot of each item before taking it all apart and talking about it would of been helpful but all in all thanks so much
Hi Bob, thanks for the comment and question. About zero! After stripping the rest of the machine when it was new and seeing the state of it, I knew I was going to do the head. I ran it for about 30 hours or so to hopefully run the gears in a bit before stripping. I knew the bearings would be poor quality and wasn't surprised to find they were. Cheers, Jon
Hi Stefan, thanks for the comment. I think that's the issue, the 'designer' was most probably a 'copier' with no design experience, and the builder....... well, probably an actual builder (as in houses), there was enough sand in there to make a mortar mix 🤔. You get what you pay for. It's slowly getting better. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop 60 years ago Japan started to produce cheap, simple things. Garbage, shit people said but started to buy their stuff. Look ata Japan of today! The same will likely happen in China, some day....
Hi can you tell me how to take the motor out? i miss that part in the video i do not want break anything because i take out the 4 screws and motor steel not going out. Ty in advance. I hope u can answer.
Hi Leonardo, thanks for the comment and question. I am not sure if you have the same mill as me but mine was remove the electric wire, undo and remove the 4 cap head bolts, then the motor just pulled straight out, you may need to give the flange a gentle few taps with a soft hammer round the outside diameter. There is a possibility that paint has stuck the two together or the key has corroded into the primary shaft. If this doesn't work, try some gentle levers underneath opposite each other. Hope this helps you. Cheers, Jon
maibe put a magnet in the drainplug , if theres still metal floating around at least it will stick to the magnet and stay there , think you later mentioned that the clacking noise was because of the phase converter
Hi Watahyahknow, thanks for the comment. You are bang on, that's exactly what I did, little neodymium magnet on top of the sump plug. Yes, I am sure most of the noise is coming from the motor due to the way the power is supplied through the converter. Cheers, Jon
Nothing too surprising thank goodness. The bearings unfortunately are quite typical, i had to change my quill bearings within a week or two due to knocking noise. I don't know if you have come across the blind bearing extractors from the likes of SKF, very expensive but easy to make your own inspired by their design, as i did for a friend, yes i had one once, for his prewar Lancias. If i make another i will video the bits for all to see. I don't know how good your manuals are but the yankee company Grizzly do very good manuals in English for both spare parts and usage on line, if you can work out which your mill is according to their numbering system. ATB c
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment. Have to agree, wasn't too surprised although was pleasantly surprised by how good most of the machining is (where it matters). The assembly is very poor however, with more emphasis on what it looks like cosmetically (from the exterior only) than the mechanical integrity. I wondered as I scratched my head if such a "blind puller" existed and was sure it probably did, you have just confirmed so every day really is a school day. My manual is not the best unfortunately, however I have already sourced and ordered all replacement bearings from "Simply Bearings", what an excellent website, so easy to use, clearly designed by someone who actually understands the products well and how engineers think, not bad prices either, just short of £100 for the whole kit delivered (all SKF). If I need anything else, I will check Grizzly out, thanks for the tip. Cheers, Jon
Enjoyed Jon. Its a shame that all that crap is floating around in the oil, that's probably contributed to the poor feel of the bearings. I agree with you though while its apart change them for some quality branded ones. Other than that it looks a quite substantially made geared head machine at a good price to suit a specific market. Your new video camera is working great as well. Tony
Hi Tony, thanks for the comment. Yes it's such a shame really but I was prepared for it. Actually, the Chinese made stuff is not bad considering, its just lost in the finishing off and the final assembly. Still, if I ever manage to get it back together, it will be a decent bit of kit that should last years. I am dead pleased with the new camera mate. Cheers, Jon
Hi, glad you did this, chinese prowedness. That butchered part, I think the buthers tools are blunt. I just wonder how good these assemblers can see actually.
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment, fully agree, it's such a shame because an extra few hours at the assembly stage would only add a few pounds to the purchase price but would make all the difference. Cheers, Jon
Hi Henry, thanks for the comment. Short answer is 'it's both'. The differentiation between the two is tang or drawbar fitting and this is wholly dependent on what you are wanting to put up the spindle. As for the machine taper, it is universal, meaning it has a slot for ejecting 'tang' type, and it also has a drawbar so it will accept both. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
Mr. Jon! Thanks for the video. I am considering buying the same mill, so was looking for info on TH-cam. Thanks for the video. Would you recommend buying or I better look for another brand/model? Thanks
Hi Rimants, thanks for the comment. I can recommend this mill but only if you are prepared to put some work into it to make it good. Please go back and have a look at my other videos if you haven't already seen them, they will give you an overview of the condition of the rest of the mill and the work needed to make it useable. Hope you find the information useful. Cheers, Jon
As much as I hate to say it, I’ve found bits and pieces in almost every machine I’ve taken apart, no matter where the machine was built. I’m not surprised at the problems these really inexpensive machines might have. I’m surprised at how high quality these inexpensive machines really are. Look, let’s face it. Honestly these machines are an amazing bargain. Level of care? Really? If all of these little things were done, which make no difference in the performance, you would be paying another 25 to 50% more for these machines. And for what, something that doesn’t matter? As for bearings, some are good, and some are mediocre. I’ve found good Japanese bearings in cheap Chinese machines, and cheap Chinese bearings in expensive European machines. You don’t know these days. These cheap bearings would likely last a hobbyist for their entire time using the machine. So the question is, are these burrs really going to cause a problem? Likely not, in my experience. Ehhh!
Hi Mel, thanks for the comment. You are right, I too have seen uglies inside some very high end CNC machines. Agree with your comments on the burrs inside the head, not really an issue. My view on this machine was tainted unfortunately by the earlier strip down I did of the bottom end, large volumes of casting sand, grinding dust and paint all mashed into the leadscrews and slides, if this was not removed, the lead nuts would have been knackered after a couple of years of light use in my opinion. The additional cost to remove this at assembly would be negligible, it's just plain sloppy (built to a price). All that said, I fully expected it to be like this anyway, there is a good reason they are cheap! I treat anything that comes from China like a kit of parts, fully expecting to strip and make good. It's such a shame though, the machining they do is pretty good for a low cost economy, then they spoil it through lack of cleanliness. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop I agree with the guys who say to take some Chinese machines apart when you get them. But most people buying these machines will destroy them taking them apart and putting them together again, so I don’t advise the average hobbyist to do it. A chuck, sure, a vise, why not? Even a collet chuck. Anything more complex is just asking for it. You know what you’re doing, and I think I know as well. But I’ve seen people take shafts off, and bent them while destroying the bearings. Sure, they’re tight, so why not use a hammer to get them in? As long as they go in. Wiggle them side to side so they loosen up. Or use a screwdriver to dig in and pry parts out. Preload? What? You’re wincing, maybe? I’ve seen it a number of times. Keith Rucker is doing a rebuild of an old and large USA made bandsaw. Maybe from the mid to late 1890’s. This was a premium manufacturer. What did he find inside the (large) casting? Mold sand. It happens a lot, then and now. We look at one of the best made small lathes ever built, the Monarch 10EE. That’s a 12 inch by 18 inch lathe. What would it cost to build that lathe today? Over $100,000! We look at what’s coming out of China for the hobbyist at less than 2% of the cost of that, and of course there will be internal misadventures. The amazing part is that a lathe can be produced at 2% of that price and do good work. Sorry for my tirade. But really, if it weren’t for the Chinese manufacturers there would be no modern hobbyists. I remember when, in the Uk, the hobby machines were, on the higher end, Myford, and on the lower end, Boxford, though I’ve spelled that wrong, I think. Here in the USA is was small South Bend, Atlas and Sears Craftsman, with a couple of others. But by todays prices, they would be expensive, at least twice, and possibly three times these Chinese products pricing. Mills were even rarer. So buy an old, worn out industrial machine such as a Bridgeport, if one has the room. Nothing like old iron, right? Cheap! And often, garbage. Companies use these machines up until they can’t hold any tolerances. Then they dump them. You find “great deals” on eBay and other places. Buy them with cheap vises, or old Kurt vises and just try to machine something square. I’ve seen some of those machines where I grab the ends of the table and pull one end and push the other, and it twists around the middle. You can’t tighten the gib, because the table effectively had a vise welded to the center for its entire life, and now the center is so worn that if you try to tighten the gib, you lock the table less than a foot either way of the table center. Oh, and if we want to look at really sorry products in the hobby machine tool world, just look to India. They’re so bad, they can’t even be exported.
Jon you must be so disappointed with all of this, you spend a couple of grand on a brand new machine and then have to totally strip it and literally rebuild from arse end to breakfast time. Have you made any comments about this to Cormak at all? I ask this because in the near future I'm going to be in the market for a brand new mill and now for sure it will not be a Cormak machine because no way on gods earth would I buy a brand new machine and do what you are doing. The machine would go straight back.
Hi Samrodian, thanks for the comment. This is not a Cormak issue, all the importers are much of a muchness really. Disappointed against what I paid - no, I expected it, if you buy any of these imported machines you need to view them as a kit of parts. Disappointed that people can leave brand new kit in this state during assembly and sell it as new - totally, there will be many people who aren't prepared to do what I did, or don't have the tools or experience, it's them I feel sorry for. As I said in the video, if I had left all that casting sand and paint in there, the machine would be useless in a couple of years. Cheers, Jon
I see the Guinness sponsorship hasn't come through yet (no draught tap in the workshop ! ) , As you have said before this is basically a sound machine that just needs the finishing touches added.you should end up with a good quality sound machine at a reasonable cost and in conjunction with the lovely Harrison lathe you will have a well equipped workshop looking forward to tha rebuild good luck.Thank you.
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment. No sponsorship yet, I keep trying! If Banggood made Guinness I think I would be laughing by now! Hopefully if I can get it all back together, it will be a much improved machine lol. Fighting rust today, living in the clouds as we do plays havoc, rust is appearing before my eyes despite liberal coatings of oil everywhere, depressing! Cheers, Jon
Jon -- I like the meticulous way you operate. You've taken a complex project an made it understandable . Great explanation . Two thumbs up .
Hi Jim, thanks for the comment and feedback, very much appreciated. Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers, Jon
Thanks for the video Jon. Good title. Helps anyone doing the same and looking for help find your video. I bet after seeing the inside, you are glad you are doing this. It is a pity that the manufactures trying to cut costs and time building. Having turned what could have been an excellent machine into a mediocre machine needing work. If they took a little more time as you have shown and spent a little more on the bearings the rebuild would not have been needed. Keep safe and stay well.
Hi Colin, thanks for the comment. You're bang on, the 95% done in China is pretty good considering, and it is all lost in the last 5% at the assembly and that is true regardless of if its Cormak, Warco, Chester or whoever. I guess that is why they are cheap and I knew this beforehand and was prepared. It's the guys who don't know this and probably don't have the tools or confidence to fix it I feel sorry for. Hopefully my series of videos may help them out (assuming I manage to get it all back together that is)! Cheers, Jon
Thanks for all the great info and another great video Jon
Hi Joe, thanks for your continued support and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon,yes all these bottom bearings were the worst with mine too...I ordered bearings a while back but still to be delivered!
Did some other work in mean time.I am still not sure if I do the quill bearings now...I test it first on run out.It at least makes a few useful video,s!!
Hi Robert, thanks for the comment. My spindle run-out was bang on, only 0.0001" I could detect, but it felt lumpy on rotation and I have now removed the taper roller bearings and the bore up the quill is full of corrosion and grit which is dropping into the back of the bottom bearing so if yours is the same, it won't last long unfortunately. While you have it in bits it's worth doing based on what I have found. My next video will show the strip down of the quill (pretty straight forward really). Cheers, Jon
Thank you (kind of :-) )
I wondered a long time ago if I should do this job on my mill.
I now know what I wished I didn't need to know :-) :-) :-)
I'm looking forward to watching the progress. I hope you provide the the bearing numbers and quantities used in the task. Thank you for doing this.
Hi Zen, thanks for the comment. If nothing else you will get a giggle out of my re-build process! There was nothing on YT at the time showing step by step so that's why I went out to a few episodes on this to properly document it (including my errors). I didn't quote the bearing numbers deliberately, there are so many slight variations of these and they do all run different bearings, therefore I avoided sending anyone down the wrong path. They are all common metric sizes available next day usually, and it will take a day to get all the crap out of the head so the most sensible thing is to strip, order, clean and then rebuild. Hope the step by step is useful. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon,
Really interesting video... you've shown what you get when manufacturing to price rather than quality, however with the skills that you have and some time big improvements will be made and you'll end up with an affordable milling machine that works really well.
Take care
Paul,,
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Yes, hopefully if I get it all back together again it will be much improved. Couldn't really make it any worse unless I broke something I suppose. Thanks for the support. Cheers, Jon
Hi John, I am an elderly model engineer and have been arranging for new machines from China. I like the look of the CO636B lathe and the same mill as yours. The Lathe is $3050 and the mill is $1450 shipping is around $2-300 and I would have to pick up from Felixstow. Your findings have me very disturbed and I think I need to revise the idea of purchasing from China, I understand that machines from Taiwan are much better constructed but they seem to be impossible to get hold of. I did get similar machines priced from Chester machine tools and they quoted £37,000 for the lathe, mill similar to the Bridgeport, and a small bandsaw. I told them that I wasn't interested in gold-plated machines. If you could advise me as to getting hold of decent machines I would appreciate it very much. I am in my early 80's and still love engineering with an almost complete 3.5 gauge Britannia 70000 made. I enjoy your videos but have only just found your channel. Keep up the good work.
regards MoK
Hi Mok, thanks for the comment and support of the channel. This is a difficult subject to give advice on but I will try my best. Chinese stuff is OK if you treat it as a kit of parts, 90% of the job is decent, and they throw it all away with the final assembly! For home shop/model Engineering, they are more than capable but you need to put a couple of weeks work in and a couple of hundred probably on better parts (bearings etc). The only other option is to hold out for some old English machinery, but for the same price range, they will also probably need work and spares can be hard to find and ridiculously expensive sometimes. Chester are just another Chinese importer, and re-badger, you would need to treat them the same as Cormak, Warco or any other (despite their ridiculous quote!!) I realise this won't help you much but there is always good reasons that things are cheap (Chinese or English!!). Cheers, Jon
All of these options makes you want to build your own mill using locally sourced material.
I replaced the tapered bearings on my spindle and it made a bug difference. Less noise and much better finish. Your unit looks like it has a lower bearing seal, mine did not and had gotten swafs up there. Theres also a elongated round hole on the body of the quill, its a good idea to seal it up, otherwise swarf can enter and fall in the lower bearing.
This is a great video and I'm glad I found it. I just bought a ZAY 7045FG and looks very much like this machine apart from the switch box in front. I have an issue that the spindle/milling tool vibrate and move around quite a bit when in use. Nice and smooth just spinning round without any load on it but vibrates when in use. Even a small 4mm end mill will vibrate on soft mild steel. It's horrible, never seen anything like it. If I go to a 12mm end mill tool, the whole machine vibrate around. The Head, the Table, everything. Does yours do that as well? I'd love a few suggestions. HELP!
Brave man Mr Jon, but she will be A1 once rebuilt and now you know what inside 😜
Hi Terry, brave or daft as a brush (I know which one I think I fit best). My guiding principle is, as long as I don't break anything through not having all the right gear (hydraulic press etc) then I can't fail to improve it. I will be much happier once I have reassembled to my standards and not the poor state it came in. Cheers, Jon
shocking... im about to buy a Cormak Chinese mill.....ive been put off seeing the build quality .. what do Cormak say?
Hi Simon, don't be put off, all import models regardless of make will be similar. This isn't anything specific to Cormak, it is specific to buying cheap Chinese products (universally), they make them pretty well and ruin them in the last 10 to 15% of the process. As long as you are prepared to put a bit of effort in to fix the sloppy finishing & assembly etc, you end up with a bargain. Cheers, Jon
thanks! what will be helpful when I finally get around to give my very similar looking clone a good cleaning.
The spring looks buggered up. The spring housing can be lifted off the main casting and relieve the tension. Remove the center bolt and the assembly can be safely removed
Interesting video, thanks for the insight into the mill, seems well made on the whole apart from the shoddy workmanship thats all to familiar with imported machinery. If your looking for bearing and seals check out The Bearing Boys or Simply Bearings, good prices for known makes (SKF, RHP, etc), no affiliation, just a happy customer.
I use Bearing Boys & Simply Bearings and can second pakrattuks endorsement. Pretty sure you know quality bearings.
Hi Pakrattuk, thanks for the comment and advice. I now have all the bearings stripped (lots of bad language in the process), so will definitely be checking out your two suggestions based on yours and others recommendations. Thanks again, Cheers, Jon
I've used both. Got a really good price off Simply Bearings for my last job.
Hi Jon. That new camera is doing a great job. My Warco lathe was made by the same bloke I reckon 😂. Isn't it a shame that they do a 95% good job then ruin it with the last and most important 5%? So frustrating. Take a look at Yuchol's channel (Woods Creek Machine Shop) when he replaced all the bearings in his lathe.
Looking forward to seeing it go back together again.
Cheers,
Mike
Hi Mike, thanks for the comment. Fully agree, the machining on the whole is pretty good, especially considering where it was all made, and then all sacrificed by sloppy assembly practices where more focus is put on the external cosmetic appearance than the mechanical integrity. Still, can't grumble, it's minimal cost to turn the kit of parts back into a decent bit of kit, just my time which is free anyway. Cheers, Jon
Great video. It aint't my one. Many Chinese mills are based on the same parts. Just changed a gear between the motor gear and the speed selector on an XJ9512D...
The gasket is named "Rubber Tray" here. Of coutse it got damaged, got longer, so a replacement is needed. Until it's in my hands the mill is assembled without it. The replced, worned out plastic gear is now a metall gear and the mill sounds like an express train.
Hi Stefan, thanks for the comment, mine is all metal gears too, very noisy. It does the job though I suppose, and the price was good. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Just turn down the work when the neighbours go to bed.... Joking!
Thanks for the video. I might dare doing that after watching your video. My L M H-gear selector i stuck. Haven't used the machine for 20 hours even. 😩
Edit: now there is no gear. Spindle doesn't move at all.
The key on the motor shaft had sheared off 😮 Pretty easy fix though.
Glad you got it sorted. Cheers, Jon
I really got excited as I need to take the head off my AMAT45FG, more or less the same machine. Guess what bit isn't shown at all? Heard you say "you just popped the motor off". I tried that but it lifted about an inch & there seems to be a bearing about an inch down the shaft that stops it, did yours pull through the hole as I didn't want to push it up too hard?
Hi Jon
Great video it looks very similar to my warco mill , if it's the same then the 3 small bottom bearings will be a different size to the top 2 small bearings. Was there a lockout on top end of the spindle? If so check it for running true mine screws on like a buckled wheel. Once you undscrew the bottom plate the shaft will knock out, the top outer race will come out with a small puller or knock it out from below, the bottom outer race is a pain I think I'll have to weld a round plate to the race and knock it out from above. Good luck with it looking forward to the next videos.
All the best
Gary
Hi Gary, thanks for the comment. Spot on, the 3 lower metal shielded ones are different. Yes, there was a preload nut and tab washer, I removed them prior to filming but forgot to mention it. I have all bearings out now and on order (all SKF), I have still to remove the outer race (top and bottom) from the spindle. I was thinking Dremel for the lower one with a fine point and grind a slot in not quite all the way through, followed by some swearing and abuse with a big hammer. I will check out the locknut, didn't notice any wobble on removal so may be OK. Cheers, Jon
Hi there. Do You have to take of the entire top of the head to remove the ac motor?
Hi Reinier, thanks for the comment and question. No, the motor just comes off with 4 cap head screws, the shaft has a key to drive into the input shaft in the head. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Thanks for the reply. I kind of figured it out. Replaced my 3phase with 1phase. Had to machine the shaft of the 1phase to fit. Will put the 3phase back when I have VFD to run it.
Great video how many hours did you have on the machine when you noticed noise and stuff ? Do you think if they used better quality bearings at the factory it would of lasted longer? I think a snapshot of each item before taking it all apart and talking about it would of been helpful but all in all thanks so much
Hi Bob, thanks for the comment and question. About zero! After stripping the rest of the machine when it was new and seeing the state of it, I knew I was going to do the head. I ran it for about 30 hours or so to hopefully run the gears in a bit before stripping. I knew the bearings would be poor quality and wasn't surprised to find they were. Cheers, Jon
You really pulled down the pants of the designer and the guy assembling that machine.
Hi Stefan, thanks for the comment. I think that's the issue, the 'designer' was most probably a 'copier' with no design experience, and the builder....... well, probably an actual builder (as in houses), there was enough sand in there to make a mortar mix 🤔. You get what you pay for. It's slowly getting better. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop 60 years ago Japan started to produce cheap, simple things. Garbage, shit people said but started to buy their stuff. Look ata Japan of today! The same will likely happen in China, some day....
Hi can you tell me how to take the motor out? i miss that part in the video i do not want break anything because i take out the 4 screws and motor steel not going out. Ty in advance. I hope u can answer.
Hi Leonardo, thanks for the comment and question. I am not sure if you have the same mill as me but mine was remove the electric wire, undo and remove the 4 cap head bolts, then the motor just pulled straight out, you may need to give the flange a gentle few taps with a soft hammer round the outside diameter. There is a possibility that paint has stuck the two together or the key has corroded into the primary shaft. If this doesn't work, try some gentle levers underneath opposite each other. Hope this helps you. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop ty for answer i will try.
maibe put a magnet in the drainplug , if theres still metal floating around at least it will stick to the magnet and stay there , think you later mentioned that the clacking noise was because of the phase converter
Hi Watahyahknow, thanks for the comment. You are bang on, that's exactly what I did, little neodymium magnet on top of the sump plug. Yes, I am sure most of the noise is coming from the motor due to the way the power is supplied through the converter. Cheers, Jon
Nothing too surprising thank goodness. The bearings unfortunately are quite typical, i had to change my quill bearings within a week or two due to knocking noise.
I don't know if you have come across the blind bearing extractors from the likes of SKF, very expensive but easy to make your own inspired by their design, as i did for a friend, yes i had one once, for his prewar Lancias. If i make another i will video the bits for all to see.
I don't know how good your manuals are but the yankee company Grizzly do very good manuals in English for both spare parts and usage on line, if you can work out which your mill is according to their numbering system.
ATB
c
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment. Have to agree, wasn't too surprised although was pleasantly surprised by how good most of the machining is (where it matters). The assembly is very poor however, with more emphasis on what it looks like cosmetically (from the exterior only) than the mechanical integrity. I wondered as I scratched my head if such a "blind puller" existed and was sure it probably did, you have just confirmed so every day really is a school day. My manual is not the best unfortunately, however I have already sourced and ordered all replacement bearings from "Simply Bearings", what an excellent website, so easy to use, clearly designed by someone who actually understands the products well and how engineers think, not bad prices either, just short of £100 for the whole kit delivered (all SKF). If I need anything else, I will check Grizzly out, thanks for the tip. Cheers, Jon
Enjoyed Jon. Its a shame that all that crap is floating around in the oil, that's probably contributed to the poor feel of the bearings.
I agree with you though while its apart change them for some quality branded ones. Other than that it looks a quite substantially
made geared head machine at a good price to suit a specific market. Your new video camera is working great as well. Tony
Hi Tony, thanks for the comment. Yes it's such a shame really but I was prepared for it. Actually, the Chinese made stuff is not bad considering, its just lost in the finishing off and the final assembly. Still, if I ever manage to get it back together, it will be a decent bit of kit that should last years. I am dead pleased with the new camera mate. Cheers, Jon
Hi, glad you did this, chinese prowedness. That butchered part, I think the buthers tools are blunt. I just wonder how good these assemblers can see actually.
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment, fully agree, it's such a shame because an extra few hours at the assembly stage would only add a few pounds to the purchase price but would make all the difference. Cheers, Jon
Hi, great video.
Could you tell me if it is a mta4 or mtb4
I just had confirmation that it is a mtb4 from the manufacturer
Hi Henry, thanks for the comment. Short answer is 'it's both'. The differentiation between the two is tang or drawbar fitting and this is wholly dependent on what you are wanting to put up the spindle. As for the machine taper, it is universal, meaning it has a slot for ejecting 'tang' type, and it also has a drawbar so it will accept both. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
HI JON , GOSH IT SERTENLY NEEDED A STRIP ADN FINISHIHG. REGARDS RICHARD.
Hi Richard, thanks for the comment, yes you are right, a bit of work required but it will be worth it in the end. Cheers, Jon
Mr. Jon! Thanks for the video. I am considering buying the same mill, so was looking for info on TH-cam. Thanks for the video. Would you recommend buying or I better look for another brand/model? Thanks
Hi Rimants, thanks for the comment. I can recommend this mill but only if you are prepared to put some work into it to make it good. Please go back and have a look at my other videos if you haven't already seen them, they will give you an overview of the condition of the rest of the mill and the work needed to make it useable. Hope you find the information useful. Cheers, Jon
As much as I hate to say it, I’ve found bits and pieces in almost every machine I’ve taken apart, no matter where the machine was built. I’m not surprised at the problems these really inexpensive machines might have. I’m surprised at how high quality these inexpensive machines really are.
Look, let’s face it. Honestly these machines are an amazing bargain. Level of care? Really? If all of these little things were done, which make no difference in the performance, you would be paying another 25 to 50% more for these machines. And for what, something that doesn’t matter? As for bearings, some are good, and some are mediocre. I’ve found good Japanese bearings in cheap Chinese machines, and cheap Chinese bearings in expensive European machines. You don’t know these days. These cheap bearings would likely last a hobbyist for their entire time using the machine.
So the question is, are these burrs really going to cause a problem? Likely not, in my experience. Ehhh!
Hi Mel, thanks for the comment. You are right, I too have seen uglies inside some very high end CNC machines. Agree with your comments on the burrs inside the head, not really an issue. My view on this machine was tainted unfortunately by the earlier strip down I did of the bottom end, large volumes of casting sand, grinding dust and paint all mashed into the leadscrews and slides, if this was not removed, the lead nuts would have been knackered after a couple of years of light use in my opinion. The additional cost to remove this at assembly would be negligible, it's just plain sloppy (built to a price). All that said, I fully expected it to be like this anyway, there is a good reason they are cheap! I treat anything that comes from China like a kit of parts, fully expecting to strip and make good. It's such a shame though, the machining they do is pretty good for a low cost economy, then they spoil it through lack of cleanliness. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop I agree with the guys who say to take some Chinese machines apart when you get them. But most people buying these machines will destroy them taking them apart and putting them together again, so I don’t advise the average hobbyist to do it. A chuck, sure, a vise, why not? Even a collet chuck. Anything more complex is just asking for it. You know what you’re doing, and I think I know as well. But I’ve seen people take shafts off, and bent them while destroying the bearings. Sure, they’re tight, so why not use a hammer to get them in? As long as they go in. Wiggle them side to side so they loosen up. Or use a screwdriver to dig in and pry parts out. Preload? What? You’re wincing, maybe? I’ve seen it a number of times.
Keith Rucker is doing a rebuild of an old and large USA made bandsaw. Maybe from the mid to late 1890’s. This was a premium manufacturer. What did he find inside the (large) casting? Mold sand. It happens a lot, then and now. We look at one of the best made small lathes ever built, the Monarch 10EE. That’s a 12 inch by 18 inch lathe. What would it cost to build that lathe today? Over $100,000! We look at what’s coming out of China for the hobbyist at less than 2% of the cost of that, and of course there will be internal misadventures. The amazing part is that a lathe can be produced at 2% of that price and do good work.
Sorry for my tirade. But really, if it weren’t for the Chinese manufacturers there would be no modern hobbyists. I remember when, in the Uk, the hobby machines were, on the higher end, Myford, and on the lower end, Boxford, though I’ve spelled that wrong, I think. Here in the USA is was small South Bend, Atlas and Sears Craftsman, with a couple of others. But by todays prices, they would be expensive, at least twice, and possibly three times these Chinese products pricing. Mills were even rarer.
So buy an old, worn out industrial machine such as a Bridgeport, if one has the room. Nothing like old iron, right? Cheap! And often, garbage. Companies use these machines up until they can’t hold any tolerances. Then they dump them. You find “great deals” on eBay and other places. Buy them with cheap vises, or old Kurt vises and just try to machine something square. I’ve seen some of those machines where I grab the ends of the table and pull one end and push the other, and it twists around the middle. You can’t tighten the gib, because the table effectively had a vise welded to the center for its entire life, and now the center is so worn that if you try to tighten the gib, you lock the table less than a foot either way of the table center.
Oh, and if we want to look at really sorry products in the hobby machine tool world, just look to India. They’re so bad, they can’t even be exported.
Jon you must be so disappointed with all of this, you spend a couple of grand on a brand new machine and then have to totally strip it and literally rebuild from arse end to breakfast time. Have you made any comments about this to Cormak at all? I ask this because in the near future I'm going to be in the market for a brand new mill and now for sure it will not be a Cormak machine because no way on gods earth would I buy a brand new machine and do what you are doing. The machine would go straight back.
Hi Samrodian, thanks for the comment. This is not a Cormak issue, all the importers are much of a muchness really. Disappointed against what I paid - no, I expected it, if you buy any of these imported machines you need to view them as a kit of parts. Disappointed that people can leave brand new kit in this state during assembly and sell it as new - totally, there will be many people who aren't prepared to do what I did, or don't have the tools or experience, it's them I feel sorry for. As I said in the video, if I had left all that casting sand and paint in there, the machine would be useless in a couple of years. Cheers, Jon
U get what u pay for, your expectations are out of reality