I really like these old films. They get right to the point and give you the information you need without trying to be cutesy and entertaining. Thanks for discovering and restoring this little gem.
A scribe is located in the combination square... allot of people never realize it. ( it's the ball that sticks out of the black part) 8:03
6 ปีที่แล้ว +16
YES!!! I have an old starrett and the man that gave it to me when i was a kid 15 years old!! gave me a proper tutorial on its use too! he gave me the centering head also and a great micrometer set and they are all priceless to me
It was interesting that the basic linear (not dial) caliper wasn't covered. It was a simple variation of the adjustable square capable of more precise and consistent measurements than a basic steel rule. These sometime incorporated a magnifier
I'm a machine shop supervisor that has always carried a six inch scale in a pocket for basic measuring for over 40 years. I tell my crew that it is used for everything from spreading cream cheese on a bagel to digging dog crap out of a shoe. (I just have to remember which end is used for what purpose). You might guess that my guys don't want me to retire any time soon.
I learnt from school that it's a rule because you are ruling it off the mark. Even with paperwork when you line off an item you rule it off with a proper single line for the legal purpose.
Copper sulfate is probably not a good idea though as a layout fluid, sulfate ions catalyse rust, so are best avoided. The idea is presumably that some of the copper cements out leaving a layer of copper you can mark into. Neat idea, but dyes are probably better and not going to rust up your work. Yes I know steel is often pickled in sulfuric acid. But it does make it more likely to rust badly if isn't all removed.
The most popular "dye" today is a thick Sharpie. Even NIMS tests consider them acceptable because industry uses Sharpies so often. I keep red and blue handy.
As a blacksmith (three rivers forge), I'm supposed to "work to the tolerance of a worn shilling", but I can't stand that notion. Give me a steel rule, well oiled, and a scribe. I keep a steel rule in the bib pocket of my leather apron right next to the carbide scribe that leaves a very fine mark. The only time I like soapstone or a silver pencil is when I need to simply grub off some steel. If you tell me you want something 15" long, I do my level best to get it right on 15"...... not 15.1"!!! Nothing more aggravating than a thick line marking something and having no idea where on the line to cut, punch or drill.
My overall bibs are material built into my overalls as I am a micro machinist making part s of the watchmaker in size. I have my pocket steel scale and a single pencil and a single pen this allows my portability as I move from one work station to another within a short distance of travel. Ferrum Itzal. We liked your story og the rules usage.
I don't know why that myth is perpetuated. A blacksmith works to the tolerances needed for the forged part to fit, and degree of fit is always specified. It's only when the parts get large, rigid and are anchored in use that thermal expansion requires looser fit.
@@andnorIt depends on what processes you attribute to a "blacksmith". The names that we give to trades today are so far removed from their origins that many of them are irrelevant. I'm now an engineer, not a wright, but an information and physical materials manager. "What engineers design, others do wright." ;-D A tolerance of 1mm +/-1/25 inch) for every measurement of a hand forged large part made without any other machining is tough because the parts are worked hot, expanded, and malleable, but measurements are taken when it is cooled. Very few precision parts are forged today without further machining. I received a pretty thorough education in metal working, (starting with my name), through hands-on shop classes in various material crafts - woodworking, foundry, forge and machining. Those clases covered history, development of technology and theory, not just the manual skills. A blacksmith works using heat and impact on iron to shape it. The skill of "black" smithing evolved from general metal smithing which started with easier to process, softer metals like copper, gold and silver. The soot produced by coal fired forges, blown into the shops and onto the workers by the forced air, is where the "black" came from. ) Steel foundry and forge are specializations within the "black" trade. The only tools used by a traditional blacksmith were a forge, anvil, hammer and chisels and the material used was a rough ingot. Originally those tools and ingots were prepared from ores by black smiths. Mill files and metal saws are relatively recent additions, so is the standardized steel rule, all of them built by descendent of the black smiths, building on the work of their predecessors.
I too love these videos reminders not too far from my training in the early 1970's I.E. my era of existence. WOW I actually have and yes use the miniature rule attached to the small stick holder. 6:17 in is the tool I still utilize in the micro machining shop to this day, some tools never wear-out their welcome. Thank you for placing up to TH-cam this video for our opportunity to view its content.
At the beginning of the second world war, when parts were sent over to Britain from the USA . It was found that they would not fit and had to be sent back , at great risk from U Boats . It was a found to be a difference in the inch between the two countries . So measuring equipment had to be recalibrated .
Simple system it is! A fraction is nothing more than a ratio. 47/64 is actually 47 divided by 64, which equals .7343". Metric is OK with me, but I don't see any problems with Imperial or S.A.E. measurements.
@HappyandAtheist It is best to use the system used to manufacture the part or in surveying to use the measurement that was originally used for the original survey if trying to reestablish lines and corners. Most times equivalents can be calculated and used which is just fine. I worked in metric when the job I was on used metric but prefer imperial except when laying out a line then I use feet and thousandths of a foot.
@@bostedtap8399 Yep, you needed them back when drawings were hand drawn. I still have 3 sided engineers and architects rules. The other type rule not mentioned is a "shrink rule" used for making mold patterns so the work will be the correct size when it cools from the molten state. There is a rule for each type of metal.. iron, aluminum, etc.
My first time of swapping out the head on an cylinder oil field engine, I ask the guy breaking me in how much clearance to give the valve rocker arms. H said a nickle's worth so I drug a nickle out of my pocket. O'm nothing but precise. ;)
nearly everyone calls it a ruler because of the education system. when i came out of school in the 70s and started my engineering apprenticeship i called it a ruler, the old engineer that was teaching me corrected me and said it was a rule, from then on i called it a rule, now i find myself correcting everyone that calls it a ruler.
I was taught at tech that it is a rule as to the point of ruling a measurement or line off the mark and I have been teaching everyone since, even my boss which is a mechanics engineer. Also with paperwork, when you have to line a piece, you rule it off the mark don't you. A rule rules so to speak.
A ruler is ether a device for ruling straight lines, upon which there are no measured indications, essentially a blank straight edge . Or it's a king or queen. (Americans need to pay attention here). A rule is exactly as described in this video.
It is about the steel rule, but I see at 01:31 they have a 5/16" dia to a tenth of a thou, on a piece 1.1/8" long on the drawing. Ground I guess, too close to turn to that tolerance I would think at that diameter and length.
No. I don't think you are going to ever see a robot be either creative, or proactive in intercepting and correcting problems. 3D print files still need to be created with imagination and skills and supervision still need to oversee and verify that the machine is working properly.
Just about every manufacturer of RULES, makes the same d.... mistake. They feel that they must screw up the 1st 2 or 3 inches by engraving micro sub divisions. An experienced worker has no use for these!
Here in Canada in the late '70's we started doing these measurements in metric. It was SO MUCH EASIER than messing around with inches and fractions thereof.
Yeah.... the beauty of the Imperial system. Forty-seven-sixty-fourth of an inch.... All clear.... And the irony of it: it is based on the Metric system, check at the NIST! Why make it simple, when we can make it Imperial ;)
eh, I work in both. Easier to do math in your head on the fly with imperial. rather hard to keep track of dozens of meters down to the millimeter, where simple dealing with feet, then inches, then fractions of an inch is manageable. Speaking about construction mind you. I'd agree that in general the metric system is better when high accuracy and many calculations are involved. In terms of applied geometry though, it's often easier for me when dividing something to use fractions, which in imperial translates directly to numbers and lines on the tape easily. That being said I do all my volumes metric, since it is easier to multiply, and also generally material comes metric, so why do the conversions?
The imperial system is dozenal and not decimal. Plenty intuitive if you're capable of counting to 12, and any given metric has far more factors, actually making it far easier and more precise for precise calculations. Before your rebuttal, with perfect accuracy can you provide me the length of 1/3 of 1 meter?
@@ivankoran I agree fractions are fun, and useful at times, but your use of "approximations" is a bit misleading. You may want to measure 3/16 of something, which sounds much more satisfying and accurate than 0.1875, but if you inaccurately measure 11/64, it's still the same as inaccurately measuring 0.171875. I use both, by the way, and the worst thing is when you have to convert one to the other. Anyway, I'm not telling anyone to use one or the other.
As a cnc machinist, we use both metric and standard, fractions and thousands. one gets very good at converting them! Tho I always use a calculator to insure I do not ruin parts. A few simple tips to make it easy, converting fractions to thousands (lets say 1/8 for simplicity) simply divide 1 by 8 (first number decided by the second) it will give you .125 and this holds true to any fraction! Converting metric to standard, lets say you have 50mm, times the fifty millimeter by .03937 and it will also give you a thousands measurement of 1.9685 Or just under 2 inches This also holds true for any metric measurement Converting standard to metric is simply dividing .03937 by your metric number! there are endless formulas and calculations, but those are a good place to start! There are also allot of fraction equivalent charts available! :)
04:20 extremeky stupid!!! Order shall return! When wilk the Amys find out, how (easy) mm's work ??? ;-( Anyway for historical reasons: thumbs up and thanks for posting!
Dividing a unit by powers of 2 seems very practical at first, but then it comes to 12ths, 24ths and 48ths and I'm glad I didn't grow up in such part of the world :D
I love the way in the US technical things are always down to the point without fuss .Only hassle remaining is the measuring system. I hope the US will transfer to metric soon .
@@MichaelBeck_profile Neither System is more accurate that the other (as some have said). Both can be divided to infinity. I 've been a machinist for nearly 50 years. I do more metric parts than I do in inches. It depends on which system you were raised on. If someone says "I need 12 ft rod" I know about how long that is without grabbing a tape. If they say " I need a 3,048mm rod I grab my calculator then my tape ruler. How would you feel if your next paycheck was in Eros?
I really like these old films. They get right to the point and give you the information you need without trying to be cutesy and entertaining. Thanks for discovering and restoring this little gem.
I'm a retired engineer now self employed and still using all these measuring tools today great to see how to use them correctly. .... well done.
"well oiled tools kept in good order mark the competent craftsman"
well said sir, even today that's the mark of the true craftsman
I was just going to quote the same thing. It still holds true to this day.
This is the type of valuable film we were shown in shop class a half plus century ago.
A scribe is located in the combination square... allot of people never realize it. ( it's the ball that sticks out of the black part) 8:03
YES!!! I have an old starrett and the man that gave it to me when i was a kid 15 years old!! gave me a proper tutorial on its use too! he gave me the centering head also and a great micrometer set and they are all priceless to me
It was interesting that the basic linear (not dial) caliper wasn't covered. It was a simple variation of the adjustable square capable of more precise and consistent measurements than a basic steel rule. These sometime incorporated a magnifier
Excellent video, and I love how the font of the numbers hasn't changed in so many years that it's still looks exactly like the tools I use everyday.
I was thinking the other day that I like it, especially '2', similar to what's on the 2 dollar bill.
The basics still hold true today in 2018.
Excellent video!
O damn its ABOM!!
Love the artisan allways seems to open the same drawer.
I'm a machine shop supervisor that has always carried a six inch scale in a pocket for basic measuring for over 40 years. I tell my crew that it is used for everything from spreading cream cheese on a bagel to digging dog crap out of a shoe. (I just have to remember which end is used for what purpose). You might guess that my guys don't want me to retire any time soon.
Thanks for these great films, hand not seen them since 1970's machine trades training.
Ok, its 4am and i'm watching a video about steel rules while i'm French and dont use imperial system... I'm definitly lost on TH-cam.
Can you please post more of these kinds of videos...excellent
I remember watching this in Shop class when I was in high school in the 70's.
I learnt from school that it's a rule because you are ruling it off the mark. Even with paperwork when you line off an item you rule it off with a proper single line for the legal purpose.
Copper sulfate is probably not a good idea though as a layout fluid, sulfate ions catalyse rust, so are best avoided. The idea is presumably that some of the copper cements out leaving a layer of copper you can mark into. Neat idea, but dyes are probably better and not going to rust up your work. Yes I know steel is often pickled in sulfuric acid. But it does make it more likely to rust badly if isn't all removed.
The most popular "dye" today is a thick Sharpie. Even NIMS tests consider them acceptable because industry uses Sharpies so often. I keep red and blue handy.
As a blacksmith (three rivers forge), I'm supposed to "work to the tolerance of a worn shilling", but I can't stand that notion. Give me a steel rule, well oiled, and a scribe. I keep a steel rule in the bib pocket of my leather apron right next to the carbide scribe that leaves a very fine mark. The only time I like soapstone or a silver pencil is when I need to simply grub off some steel.
If you tell me you want something 15" long, I do my level best to get it right on 15"...... not 15.1"!!!
Nothing more aggravating than a thick line marking something and having no idea where on the line to cut, punch or drill.
My overall bibs are material built into my overalls as I am a micro machinist making part s of the watchmaker in size. I have my pocket steel scale and a single pencil and a single pen this allows my portability as I move from one work station to another within a short distance of travel. Ferrum Itzal. We liked your story og the rules usage.
I have been talking to a few (4) blacksmiths that claims that 1mm margin of error is to large for blacksmithing work.
How true is this?
save time in the long run by being accuracy.
I don't know why that myth is perpetuated. A blacksmith works to the tolerances needed for the forged part to fit, and degree of fit is always specified. It's only when the parts get large, rigid and are anchored in use that thermal expansion requires looser fit.
@@andnorIt depends on what processes you attribute to a "blacksmith".
The names that we give to trades today are so far removed from their origins that many of them are irrelevant. I'm now an engineer, not a wright, but an information and physical materials manager. "What engineers design, others do wright." ;-D
A tolerance of 1mm +/-1/25 inch) for every measurement of a hand forged large part made without any other machining is tough because the parts are worked hot, expanded, and malleable, but measurements are taken when it is cooled. Very few precision parts are forged today without further machining.
I received a pretty thorough education in metal working, (starting with my name), through hands-on shop classes in various material crafts - woodworking, foundry, forge and machining. Those clases covered history, development of technology and theory, not just the manual skills.
A blacksmith works using heat and impact on iron to shape it. The skill of "black" smithing evolved from general metal smithing which started with easier to process, softer metals like copper, gold and silver. The soot produced by coal fired forges, blown into the shops and onto the workers by the forced air, is where the "black" came from. ) Steel foundry and forge are specializations within the "black" trade.
The only tools used by a traditional blacksmith were a forge, anvil, hammer and chisels and the material used was a rough ingot. Originally those tools and ingots were prepared from ores by black smiths. Mill files and metal saws are relatively recent additions, so is the standardized steel rule, all of them built by descendent of the black smiths, building on the work of their predecessors.
back to the basics. learn what a gauge block does before hoping on a cnc and calling yourself a machinist
@05:20 I wonder if that ruler maker still has "Made in U.S.A." on their rulers.
how come we don't get training like this anymore...10/10 for this video
I too love these videos reminders not too far from my training in the early 1970's I.E. my era of existence. WOW I actually have and yes use the miniature rule attached to the small stick holder. 6:17 in is the tool I still utilize in the micro machining shop to this day, some tools never wear-out their welcome. Thank you for placing up to TH-cam this video for our opportunity to view its content.
I to have and use the same tool you mention.
I'm going to have to see if eBay has a Trammell divider and that fancy little scale on a stick.
4:50 Burn an inch
Precision, tolerance, accuracy: still the foundations.
The steel rule.
When the commentator said that at the beginning it was like a movie title.
Like the Maltese falcon or something.
Scribe the circle on a test piece and check first !
Tools change over time, but the responsibility to do the work correctly doesn't!
Very interesting and well presented!
At the beginning of the second world war, when parts were sent over to Britain from the USA . It was found that they would not fit and had to be sent back , at great risk from U Boats . It was a found to be a difference in the inch between the two countries . So measuring equipment had to be recalibrated .
Simple system it is! A fraction is nothing more than a ratio. 47/64 is actually 47 divided by 64, which equals .7343". Metric is OK with me, but I don't see any problems with Imperial or S.A.E. measurements.
@HappyandAtheist It is best to use the system used to manufacture the part or in surveying to use the measurement that was originally used for the original survey if trying to reestablish lines and corners. Most times equivalents can be calculated and used which is just fine. I worked in metric when the job I was on used metric but prefer imperial except when laying out a line then I use feet and thousandths of a foot.
@HappyandAtheist It still works.
Dose anyone else see the error on that blueprint @2:22 ? Totally Wrong!!
There .500 !!! Thats engineers for ya!!!!
2" inch
What about the Rule that is made to be broken?
😃😃😃😃
Wow, love that tool box. Pretty sick that the "other measurement systems" they mention are twelfths, twenty fourths and tenths of an inch though...
Used for scale drawings.
@@bostedtap8399 Yep, you needed them back when drawings were hand drawn. I still have 3 sided engineers and architects rules. The other type rule not mentioned is a "shrink rule" used for making mold patterns so the work will be the correct size when it cools from the molten state. There is a rule for each type of metal.. iron, aluminum, etc.
Very nice!
Great film from the time people actually knew the basics of doing things.
Basic common sense,which seems to be lacking today
Thanks very much for the video's
Wow...this was very useful when there were very little machines. Those damn machines don't need rulers...they have lasers now :(
My first time of swapping out the head on an cylinder oil field engine, I ask the guy breaking me in how much clearance to give the valve rocker arms. H said a nickle's worth so I drug a nickle out of my pocket. O'm nothing but precise. ;)
Skills!
nearly everyone calls it a ruler because of the education system. when i came out of school in the 70s and started my engineering apprenticeship i called it a ruler, the old engineer that was teaching me corrected me and said it was a rule, from then on i called it a rule, now i find myself correcting everyone that calls it a ruler.
My old instructor always called it a scale.
The difference, in my opinion, is insignificant.
I was taught at tech that it is a rule as to the point of ruling a measurement or line off the mark and I have been teaching everyone since, even my boss which is a mechanics engineer. Also with paperwork, when you have to line a piece, you rule it off the mark don't you. A rule rules so to speak.
A ruler is ether a device for ruling straight lines, upon which there are no measured indications, essentially a blank straight edge . Or it's a king or queen. (Americans need to pay attention here). A rule is exactly as described in this video.
as good today as it was then ,,,
Measure it with a steel scale back in the day. I fight a CMM all day trying to hold +/-.0001. We need to go back.
It is about the steel rule, but I see at 01:31 they have a 5/16" dia to a tenth of a thou, on a piece 1.1/8" long on the drawing. Ground I guess, too close to turn to that tolerance I would think at that diameter and length.
1:31, Sorry, no is going to measure a tolerance of dead nuts with a steel rule! At least they clarify that later on.
I use steel rules on a daily basis.
And not too far into the future selecting a part and pushing the start button on a 3-D printer is all anyone is going to have to do.
No. I don't think you are going to ever see a robot be either creative, or proactive in intercepting and correcting problems. 3D print files still need to be created with imagination and skills and supervision still need to oversee and verify that the machine is working properly.
Just about every manufacturer of RULES, makes the same d.... mistake.
They feel that they must screw up the 1st 2 or 3 inches by engraving micro sub divisions.
An experienced worker has no use for these!
I prefer the ones like shown in the video that have 1/8" and 1/16" on one side and 1/32" and 1/64" on the other.
@4:11 i love the metric system XD
Here in Canada in the late '70's we started doing these measurements in metric. It was SO MUCH EASIER than messing around with inches and fractions thereof.
Yeah.... the beauty of the Imperial system. Forty-seven-sixty-fourth of an inch.... All clear.... And the irony of it: it is based on the Metric system, check at the NIST! Why make it simple, when we can make it Imperial ;)
Exactly.
eh, I work in both. Easier to do math in your head on the fly with imperial. rather hard to keep track of dozens of meters down to the millimeter, where simple dealing with feet, then inches, then fractions of an inch is manageable.
Speaking about construction mind you. I'd agree that in general the metric system is better when high accuracy and many calculations are involved. In terms of applied geometry though, it's often easier for me when dividing something to use fractions, which in imperial translates directly to numbers and lines on the tape easily. That being said I do all my volumes metric, since it is easier to multiply, and also generally material comes metric, so why do the conversions?
Imperial got us to the moon.
The imperial system is dozenal and not decimal. Plenty intuitive if you're capable of counting to 12, and any given metric has far more factors, actually making it far easier and more precise for precise calculations. Before your rebuttal, with perfect accuracy can you provide me the length of 1/3 of 1 meter?
@@timothyarmstrong5987 And missed Mars.
We've always been taught it's a "ruler" not a "rule"... the more you know...
I have to admit I truly hate the imperial system.To many damn fractions
Good exercise for the mind.
Fractions are fun and pretty easy tho. And fractions are real where as decimals are approximations of size
@@ivankoran I agree fractions are fun, and useful at times, but your use of "approximations" is a bit misleading. You may want to measure 3/16 of something, which sounds much more satisfying and accurate than 0.1875, but if you inaccurately measure 11/64, it's still the same as inaccurately measuring 0.171875. I use both, by the way, and the worst thing is when you have to convert one to the other. Anyway, I'm not telling anyone to use one or the other.
This is a historic film. We are not advocating how things should be done, today, but I hope reasonable and constructive comparisons are made.
As a cnc machinist, we use both metric and standard, fractions and thousands. one gets very good at converting them! Tho I always use a calculator to insure I do not ruin parts.
A few simple tips to make it easy,
converting fractions to thousands (lets say 1/8 for simplicity) simply divide 1 by 8 (first number decided by the second) it will give you .125 and this holds true to any fraction!
Converting metric to standard, lets say you have 50mm, times the fifty millimeter by .03937 and it will also give you a thousands measurement of 1.9685 Or just under 2 inches This also holds true for any metric measurement
Converting standard to metric is simply dividing .03937 by your metric number!
there are endless formulas and calculations, but those are a good place to start! There are also allot of fraction equivalent charts available! :)
04:20 extremeky stupid!!!
Order shall return!
When wilk the Amys find out, how (easy) mm's work ??? ;-(
Anyway for historical reasons: thumbs up and thanks for posting!
Dividing a unit by powers of 2 seems very practical at first, but then it comes to 12ths, 24ths and 48ths and I'm glad I didn't grow up in such part of the world :D
I love the way in the US technical things are always down to the point without fuss .Only hassle remaining is the measuring system. I hope the US will transfer to metric soon .
I hope not it's so easy in in"
Stop using wrong measuring system :D
Imperial "Rules" Metric Sucks!
@@brianday6433 how?
@therealnightwriter As someone who has used both, metric is so much easier and is prone to fewer measurement errors.
@@MichaelBeck_profile Neither System is more accurate that the other (as some have said). Both can be divided to infinity. I 've been a machinist for nearly 50 years. I do more metric parts than I do in inches. It depends on which system you were raised on. If someone says "I need 12 ft rod" I know about how long that is without grabbing a tape. If they say " I need a 3,048mm rod I grab my calculator then my tape ruler. How would you feel if your next paycheck was in Eros?
We always need some arrogant fool telling us what system to use, because we can't decide that for ourselves.