sameee, lately I buy hotswap when it’s available but I don’t swap out the switches so that the plate stays in tact and the sockets don’t lose their friction
@@keybonbon if you disassemble the board you can push the switches from behind the pcb to avoid scratching (you can push the plastic base that fits unto the pcb with a flat instrument like a thin hex screwdriver), the other method I've tried is using the switch puller pushing gently the top and bottom side of the switch to grab it, as when doing that from the sides it's far more easier to scratch the plate I'm not sure why.
@@keybonbon I have swapped the switches on my GMMK 6 times with no issues what so ever. I think you are most likely to damage the hot swap socket installing new switches if the pin is slightly bent. You end up pushing the socket away from the PCB. I think the ability to have an entirely different sounding and feeling keyboard in under 30 minutes for only the cost of switches is incredible.
Wait what? The sound difference was hugely noticeable to me. The hotswap/millmax sounded like it had way more high end treble to it and soldered had a more muted sounded with more low end thud. Am I insane? Hotswap sounded way more clacky to me. I actually couldn't believe the difference when I heard them side by side because I expected there to be none and then you said you couldn't tell a difference lol
haha maybe I'm deaf, but in the rapid side-by-side at 1:54 if I close my eyes I don't really notice a difference (except I unfortunately typed at different speeds between the kailh and mill-max so that's kind of noticable). I kind of want to do this test on other boards eventually just to try it again
What kind of headphones do you use and what is your amp/dac setup? This could be causing it. I have a dedicated amp/dac and HD650s. I noticed in the rapid side by side, when it gets to the soldered PCB, there is a low bassy hum in the background that isn't present in the other tests. It could have something to do with that. Good video regardless. If there is a difference it's probably not THAT huge to be honest.
@@AnaerobicFermentation I am a complete noob when it comes to anything audio related, so suggestions are more than welcome! I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not even sure I know what an amp/dac setup is :$ I just plugin a pair of sennheiser headphones straight to my computer (Sennheiser Game One Gaming Headset). I definitely need to upgrade to something better if that'll help me hear subtleties in audio playback
@@keybonbon To be honest, it's probably a rabbit hole you don't want to go down lol It's similar to keyboards in that it can get veeerrrryyy expensive. DAC is just digital to analog convertor. Your computer motherboard has one built in but you can get much higher quality ones as a separate physical interface that hooks up to your PC. AMP is just an amplifier which you may not even need depending on the headphones you have. Combined with a high quality pair of headphones, you will get much better audio quality that will allow you to hear a lot of subtleties in music and other audio you wouldn't normally hear. I'm going to guess this is why I'm hearing this stuff.
I'm looking to get into keyboards as a hobby now that I'm starting to earn my own income, and your videos are a really cool starting point. Thanks for all the effort you put in!
Yeah, I thought the same thing as I've always enjoyed mechanical keyboards. I thought it would be a nice project while locked down at home. $800 later, I'm about to assemble my first one ;)
This is quality content. I have to disagree with the sound being the same tho. You had them in the order of pitch with kailh being the highest and solder being the lowest. That said, I don't think I could tell the difference between mill-max and solder easily without them being compared immediately. Regardless, this video helped me decide what I like, and so have my like. On the note of wobble, solder definitely has the least amount of wobble according to your video (not by a lot tho), but I personally am not huge on that so it's whatever.
Since this video came out I built kbcompare.com to help with blind tests and I got a new audio set up to help me listen to audio at a higher quality. And I have to admit I do hear a difference now, so I will definitely be refilling an updated version this video in the next few weeks!
Awesome video, the most noticeable sound difference were the spacebars, the mods and other keys sounded pretty similar but the spacebars definitely sounded much deeper in the solder board.
I know you made this video and others a few years ago, but for newcomers to the hobby (specifically me, as I have only been in the hobby since last May), your videos and comparisons are fantastic. Thanks so much for all the content you've created!
Newish to the mk community, and your content is so easily digestible and has no fluff to it, making it so easy to follow along as a newcomer. Thanks for the fantastic content and keep it up!
I wasn't able to hear a difference between the two hotswap options, but I could hear a noticeable improvement in sound quality on the soldered board. As a newcomer to the hobby, I'm still going for a hotswappable option for my first board so I can more easily try out different switch options. Currently holding out hope to be able to get one of the next round of NK65s
I'm a fan of the Kailh sockets but in the community, it seems like people look down on them. Until someone is able to point out the difference between a hotswap board and a soldered board in a blind test, I'm hotswap all the way.
yeah I totally agree, but it’s really hard to avoid bias when doing these sorts of tests. I have some ideas for future videos where I introduce blind tests for everyone to be able to hear for themselves. Lately what I do is I open the audio in different tabs, close my eyes and listen to them randomly
I can explain why I personally hate Kailh sockets - it is really bad for constantly changing switches especially due to tolerance issues. It bends really easily as well. I currently swapped to millmax for all my builds
Awesome channel! Very nice edits and i like that you don't make the videos unnecessary longer then they need to be. So refreshing to see this channel in the Keyboard Community.
This really helped me decide which PCB to get. I ended up opting for Hotswap since a lot of the newer PCBs offer multi-layout I have several TKLs in my collection and soldering multiple TKLs sounds tedious! Thank you for this awesome video!
My millmax sockets got loose overtime, making my switches sound crap, as it was wobbling around the plate too much, in addition it was 0305, so the lip is higher than usual. So I think another drawback of millmaxs is that they are prone to wear and tear, making switches alot looser. Cant say anything about kailh, since I just recently got one and they sound and feel good. I like both kailh and solder boards thats why I buy two pcbs for each groupbuy, one solder and a millmaxed 7305 If you have to go with millmax, invest on 7305s. Kailh hotswaps if you can Solder for long term stability. Nice video man, this is my new fav keeb channel! Keep it up!!
I dont understand how you're not one of the biggest keyboard youtubers outs there your videos are actually incredible. Keep up the great content and I wish you luck and really hope you blow up soon.
The Kailh, were slightly brighter sounding,mill max sounded deeper, like more hollow sounding and the soldered ones sounded more subdued, like dampened, with the least noise.
I’ve tried all 3 methods. The millmax hot swap sockets can break stem legs on switches with weaker housings if you are not super careful. I had a couple Tealios legs break on me using millmax hotswap. The Kailh hot swap is attractive, but after multiple switch replacements, the sockets keep disconnecting from the pcb and you have to pull the socket pins together to fix them. It’s kind of a hassle. If I were to do things over again I would just solder switches onto pcbs and would get a few extra pcb and cases and instead swap the pcb/plates outright. It’s much less of a hassle and 150 millmax sockets are nearly as expensive as an extra pcb/plate
Good point! I have had the same experience with changing out kailh sockets. Supposedly they are rated for 100 swaps but I’ve had trouble with them in as little as 5-10 swaps
Different PCBs produce different sounds, most people think its just the case and plate material/dimensions. This is due to the material composition used to manufacture the PCB. A more relatable example are POM plates/stems. POM is a mixture of different plastics and each manufacturer uses different propositions
I don't understand the logic why the sound is slightly different. The switches are mounted on the plate which absorbes all force. With the gasket mount of the no. 1 rev. 1 there is even more isolation. Only thing I can think about is that the pcb is a bit rattling? Maybe this can be fixed somehow.
Hmm yeah it must be something along those lines, I guess it’s not too surprising given all the tiny changes we make to our builds that end up having noticeable improvements in sound. I’ll record some more hotswap / solder builds so we can get a better idea
were you using headphones or just speakers? there's clearly a sound change between the 3..... mill max is closer to soldered but the hot swaps are not even close to soldered. soldered is crispy af and the kailhs have extra sounds bc they are moving when pressed
I've made a lot of changes to my audio set up since this video, so I definitely want to re-record soon, but I'm in a backlog of videos unfortunately, so probably not for another month or two :(
So what’s the easier socket to solder? Looks like mill max right? So basically you can convert any non swap pc to hoy swap? I’m planning to get the tofu acrylic kit but this includes a non swap pcb :/ thanks
What are the downsides of soldering in Kailh sockets over millmax sockets on a solder board? Also, would most PCB be able to support multi-layout hotswap support by millmaxing all the points. I know with Kailh sockets, the issue is usually they interfere with each other, but in most cases, millmax sockets don't interfere with one another or other switch placements.
Nice. I just bought the bamboo case for a redox, which the plate is made of bamboo and I'm start to think that it's better to solder it...what do you think?
Video idea = Remember the time when band aid mods were so popular? nowadays people say its not needed anymore. How about comparing both sides, sound wise, or what material to use? (lubed bandaid or not, electric tape? etc).
I’ve definitely been thinking about that lately! Almost feels like they became unpopular over night haha, personally I was never that into it but I think a video is a great idea, thanks for the suggestion! :)
came across this and I found a difference in sound between not the three types , but the two general kinds of pcb - hot swap and solder. I found the soldered one to be more of the low sound (idk the term sorry), which makes me think that maybe clicky switches might be the best for soldered - no need to lube, etc, while linear or tactile for hotswaps (only for the convenience of lubing aspect though!) :D
I've heard millmax sockets can affect stabilized keys because the lip raises the switch by something like 1mm. There any truth to this? (Maybe a future video?)
It does raise the switch ever so slightly (less so with 07305), but I haven’t had issues with it yet- I am doing a version 2 of this video so I’ll be sure to include that, thanks for pointing it out!!
Yeah I’m surprised he didn’t hear a difference. I certainly heard a difference between the kailh and soldered/millmax like it was subtle but there. Idk if I’d call it “rattle-y” and probably isn’t noticeable during daily use but in this comparison sounded the worst.
@@keybonbon no worries. It's just interesting and might only come across on youtube...sound is weird haha. Still a great vid and I've seen it shared on a bunch of discord channels.
Jay Bee do a blind test and see how many people got it right. That would be better. In hindsight, people can always say they can tell a huge difference.
THANK YOU for the video and the content. However, watching on my phone or PC or any other device, they all sounded different to me. I am a musician, so my ears are trained and maybe that's how I notice it and some don't. But yeah they all sound different. Soldered sounded more solid to me, next was millmax, last was kailh. Kailh sounded more hollow and plasticy.
I've never tried kailh but I've heard that it's possible to knock the socket out. That's why I went with millmax. Knocking it out is effectively impossible
Is it true that hotswap pbc become loose overtime? im planning to buy my first mechanical keyboard specifically the Keychron k2. But im torn between the hotswap or the solder one k2. Any advice guys?
@@clackety_ i see. But hearing the sound difference in the video make me wanna buy juat the non hot swap k2. Cause i feel like the solder one has a more crisp sound. But i still cant decide. Anway, thank you for the response.
Sounds (to me) like the only one that really changed the sound was the soldered switches lol I actually kind of prefer the slightly muted sound of the soldered switches though fml :
Soldering (and desoldering) is just more fun. When I build a keyboard, lubing the switches, greasing the stabs, soldering, etc., it feels like I actually "made it". To me, hot-swap makes the board feel more impersonal - I merely assembled it.
Problem is if a board has a shit pcb, just say goodbye to your solder pads. Tbh i just see hotswap useful if you want to test different switches for key feel, but not for a good daily keyboard.
@@DarkoPetreski ...or if your iron/technique is bollocks, you can even fuck up a decent PCB. Hot swap is certainly more useful and will stress you out less customising your board.
I am torn between a hotswap and non hot swap Keychron k2. what should i get guys? any suggestion? cause some forum saying hotswap keyboards will tend to get loose overtime which makes the switches wobbly. is that true guys?
@@rejanrams whilst I can't speak to the K2, I will say now, after fucking around with so many keyboards during lockdown, I favour hotswap. I haven't got the time. As for longevity of hotswap sockets, you really gonna be yanking switches out enough to cause problems? I mean, finding what works when you first get it maybe but that first year you got your warranty so I wouldn't worry about that unless you're really gonna be swapping switches every week.
The dozens and dozens of switch options out there make it so hard for me to commit to soldering something. I enjoy trying different layouts, case designs and form factors. I don't want to lose interest in my expensive keyboard because after hours of use because I grow to prefer the feel of a different switch. Even if I really enjoy the rest of the board.
Soldered sounds best wow! Thanks for this vid, so tradeoffs - You wanna save your switches? (not gonna sound as good), You wanna good sounding keeb? (solder the switches).
hmm I could see the argument for difference in sound, but for wobble they were pretty much identical, even using tweezers to try and move the housing didn’t do much, they fit very snug on the plate
Ok so I love your videos, but boy do something with that hair. We notice when you play with it between takes, and a bowl cut side swoop needs to be left behind. I say this with love ❤️
Haha well, I don’t know about you but I like to see and hear things for myself versus taking someone’s word for it. Especially in this hobby, there’s a lot of pseudoscience and misinformation out there
Table of Contents:
0:00 Introduction
1:19 Sound Test: Kailh Hotswap Sockets
1:31 Sound Test: Mill-Max Hotswap Sockets
1:42 Sound Test: Soldered
1:54 Sound Test: Rapid Side-by-Side
2:09 Sound Test Conclusion
2:19 Wobble Test: Side-by-Side
2:41 Wobble Test Conclusion
3:03 Downsides to Hotswap
3:47 Final words
Thank you SO MUCH for watching!
You don't have to thank us when you make things that we actually want to watch and that no one else is testing
3:08 Learnt this the hard way
sameee, lately I buy hotswap when it’s available but I don’t swap out the switches so that the plate stays in tact and the sockets don’t lose their friction
@@keybonbon if you disassemble the board you can push the switches from behind the pcb to avoid scratching (you can push the plastic base that fits unto the pcb with a flat instrument like a thin hex screwdriver), the other method I've tried is using the switch puller pushing gently the top and bottom side of the switch to grab it, as when doing that from the sides it's far more easier to scratch the plate I'm not sure why.
Unless you're going to resell the board I don't see why it's a big deal anyway. The keycaps cover up the scratches.
@@keybonbon I have swapped the switches on my GMMK 6 times with no issues what so ever. I think you are most likely to damage the hot swap socket installing new switches if the pin is slightly bent. You end up pushing the socket away from the PCB. I think the ability to have an entirely different sounding and feeling keyboard in under 30 minutes for only the cost of switches is incredible.
@@incongruous4 I thought the same. If you have some low profile hot swap board I think this is where you can really screw it up though.
Possibly the best keyboard science channels out here. Easy to watch and very informative.
+1
No filler to hit the 10 minute mark. Short and to the point. Ez sub.
You Right !
Agreed!
Wait what? The sound difference was hugely noticeable to me. The hotswap/millmax sounded like it had way more high end treble to it and soldered had a more muted sounded with more low end thud. Am I insane? Hotswap sounded way more clacky to me. I actually couldn't believe the difference when I heard them side by side because I expected there to be none and then you said you couldn't tell a difference lol
i hear the same thing, i have always disliked hotswap sockets for that reason
haha maybe I'm deaf, but in the rapid side-by-side at 1:54 if I close my eyes I don't really notice a difference (except I unfortunately typed at different speeds between the kailh and mill-max so that's kind of noticable). I kind of want to do this test on other boards eventually just to try it again
What kind of headphones do you use and what is your amp/dac setup? This could be causing it. I have a dedicated amp/dac and HD650s. I noticed in the rapid side by side, when it gets to the soldered PCB, there is a low bassy hum in the background that isn't present in the other tests. It could have something to do with that. Good video regardless. If there is a difference it's probably not THAT huge to be honest.
@@AnaerobicFermentation I am a complete noob when it comes to anything audio related, so suggestions are more than welcome! I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not even sure I know what an amp/dac setup is :$ I just plugin a pair of sennheiser headphones straight to my computer (Sennheiser Game One Gaming Headset). I definitely need to upgrade to something better if that'll help me hear subtleties in audio playback
@@keybonbon To be honest, it's probably a rabbit hole you don't want to go down lol It's similar to keyboards in that it can get veeerrrryyy expensive. DAC is just digital to analog convertor. Your computer motherboard has one built in but you can get much higher quality ones as a separate physical interface that hooks up to your PC. AMP is just an amplifier which you may not even need depending on the headphones you have.
Combined with a high quality pair of headphones, you will get much better audio quality that will allow you to hear a lot of subtleties in music and other audio you wouldn't normally hear. I'm going to guess this is why I'm hearing this stuff.
I'm looking to get into keyboards as a hobby now that I'm starting to earn my own income, and your videos are a really cool starting point. Thanks for all the effort you put in!
Welcome to the hobby! :)
Yeah, I thought the same thing as I've always enjoyed mechanical keyboards. I thought it would be a nice project while locked down at home. $800 later, I'm about to assemble my first one ;)
The amount of work you put in your vids is amazing keep up the great work!
Deserves more subs!
The timing of this video is insane. Thank you for making this high quality video!
This is quality content. I have to disagree with the sound being the same tho. You had them in the order of pitch with kailh being the highest and solder being the lowest. That said, I don't think I could tell the difference between mill-max and solder easily without them being compared immediately. Regardless, this video helped me decide what I like, and so have my like. On the note of wobble, solder definitely has the least amount of wobble according to your video (not by a lot tho), but I personally am not huge on that so it's whatever.
Since this video came out I built kbcompare.com to help with blind tests and I got a new audio set up to help me listen to audio at a higher quality. And I have to admit I do hear a difference now, so I will definitely be refilling an updated version this video in the next few weeks!
Awesome video, the most noticeable sound difference were the spacebars, the mods and other keys sounded pretty similar but the spacebars definitely sounded much deeper in the solder board.
good observation! They do sound different, although I’m not sure if that was from the hotswap sockets or from moving around the stabs from pcb to pcb
I know you made this video and others a few years ago, but for newcomers to the hobby (specifically me, as I have only been in the hobby since last May), your videos and comparisons are fantastic. Thanks so much for all the content you've created!
Newish to the mk community, and your content is so easily digestible and has no fluff to it, making it so easy to follow along as a newcomer. Thanks for the fantastic content and keep it up!
That means a lot thank you!! :)
BIG thanks for the rapid side-by-side comparison. I miss something like this in almost any keyboard related sound test...
I wasn't able to hear a difference between the two hotswap options, but I could hear a noticeable improvement in sound quality on the soldered board. As a newcomer to the hobby, I'm still going for a hotswappable option for my first board so I can more easily try out different switch options. Currently holding out hope to be able to get one of the next round of NK65s
I definitely want to record more hotswap /solder comparisons so we can get a better idea. Thanks for watching!!
Same here
I'm a fan of the Kailh sockets but in the community, it seems like people look down on them.
Until someone is able to point out the difference between a hotswap board and a soldered board in a blind test, I'm hotswap all the way.
yeah I totally agree, but it’s really hard to avoid bias when doing these sorts of tests. I have some ideas for future videos where I introduce blind tests for everyone to be able to hear for themselves. Lately what I do is I open the audio in different tabs, close my eyes and listen to them randomly
I can explain why I personally hate Kailh sockets - it is really bad for constantly changing switches especially due to tolerance issues. It bends really easily as well. I currently swapped to millmax for all my builds
Awesome channel!
Very nice edits and i like that you don't make the videos unnecessary longer then they need to be.
So refreshing to see this channel in the Keyboard Community.
I’m glad people like you exist. Honestly I think I prefer how the mill-max and soldered pcbs sound
This really helped me decide which PCB to get. I ended up opting for Hotswap since a lot of the newer PCBs offer multi-layout I have several TKLs in my collection and soldering multiple TKLs sounds tedious! Thank you for this awesome video!
THANK YOU! Nobody was talking about this subject. As a fairly new person to the keyboard space, this was super helpful!
This was well organized and presented. Fills a void in the keyboard community. Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching and commenting on several vids, I appreciate that!! :)
My millmax sockets got loose overtime, making my switches sound crap, as it was wobbling around the plate too much, in addition it was 0305, so the lip is higher than usual. So I think another drawback of millmaxs is that they are prone to wear and tear, making switches alot looser. Cant say anything about kailh, since I just recently got one and they sound and feel good.
I like both kailh and solder boards thats why I buy two pcbs for each groupbuy, one solder and a millmaxed 7305
If you have to go with millmax, invest on 7305s.
Kailh hotswaps if you can
Solder for long term stability.
Nice video man, this is my new fav keeb channel! Keep it up!!
seriously, this is the first video i've watched from your channel. and i tell you what, the intro is CLEANNN
A very informative video! Excited to see what other content you produce!
Not many channels out there doing this kind of thing. Good stuff mate. 👍
This is a really good video for new comers!
This is really for all. Before this video, no one can say with any certainty on this subject matter.
I dont understand how you're not one of the biggest keyboard youtubers outs there your videos are actually incredible. Keep up the great content and I wish you luck and really hope you blow up soon.
Awesome content ! I’ve never heard of the mill max sockets , def going to check them out !
Love your vids man! Keep it up!
The Kailh, were slightly brighter sounding,mill max sounded deeper, like more hollow sounding and the soldered ones sounded more subdued, like dampened, with the least noise.
I agree. I thought the sound difference was pretty noticeable. Surprised he didn't perceive any difference.
I’ve tried all 3 methods. The millmax hot swap sockets can break stem legs on switches with weaker housings if you are not super careful. I had a couple Tealios legs break on me using millmax hotswap. The Kailh hot swap is attractive, but after multiple switch replacements, the sockets keep disconnecting from the pcb and you have to pull the socket pins together to fix them. It’s kind of a hassle. If I were to do things over again I would just solder switches onto pcbs and would get a few extra pcb and cases and instead swap the pcb/plates outright. It’s much less of a hassle and 150 millmax sockets are nearly as expensive as an extra pcb/plate
Good point! I have had the same experience with changing out kailh sockets. Supposedly they are rated for 100 swaps but I’ve had trouble with them in as little as 5-10 swaps
Different PCBs produce different sounds, most people think its just the case and plate material/dimensions.
This is due to the material composition used to manufacture the PCB.
A more relatable example are POM plates/stems. POM is a mixture of different plastics and each manufacturer uses different propositions
Bro you deserve more likes and views, great video
Great editing and timestamps on five minute video. Who is this man
I don't understand the logic why the sound is slightly different. The switches are mounted on the plate which absorbes all force. With the gasket mount of the no. 1 rev. 1 there is even more isolation. Only thing I can think about is that the pcb is a bit rattling? Maybe this can be fixed somehow.
Hmm yeah it must be something along those lines, I guess it’s not too surprising given all the tiny changes we make to our builds that end up having noticeable improvements in sound. I’ll record some more hotswap / solder builds so we can get a better idea
were you using headphones or just speakers? there's clearly a sound change between the 3..... mill max is closer to soldered but the hot swaps are not even close to soldered. soldered is crispy af and the kailhs have extra sounds bc they are moving when pressed
When is the new test video for this coming up? I really want a more in depth on the sound. Because it really does sound like the solder sounds better.
I've made a lot of changes to my audio set up since this video, so I definitely want to re-record soon, but I'm in a backlog of videos unfortunately, so probably not for another month or two :(
Awesome content and videos. Keep up the good work 👊🏽👍🏼
So what’s the easier socket to solder? Looks like mill max right? So basically you can convert any non swap pc to hoy swap? I’m planning to get the tofu acrylic kit but this includes a non swap pcb :/ thanks
Great video man! Thank you for sharing.
Epic, thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for.
Awesome video and overview. I'm going to have to get a Dz60rgb v2 Hot Swap PCB and skip the soldering.
What are the downsides of soldering in Kailh sockets over millmax sockets on a solder board? Also, would most PCB be able to support multi-layout hotswap support by millmaxing all the points. I know with Kailh sockets, the issue is usually they interfere with each other, but in most cases, millmax sockets don't interfere with one another or other switch placements.
Wow, thank you for making this!
Nice. I just bought the bamboo case for a redox, which the plate is made of bamboo and I'm start to think that it's better to solder it...what do you think?
could we get a mount comparison? for example try, top, gasket etx..
I’ve got that on my list of vids to do, hopefully soon! :)
Hey. Thanks for the video. I have a small doubt. Are low profile switches compatible with the same board as normal ones?
Video idea = Remember the time when band aid mods were so popular? nowadays people say its not needed anymore. How about comparing both sides, sound wise, or what material to use? (lubed bandaid or not, electric tape? etc).
I’ve definitely been thinking about that lately! Almost feels like they became unpopular over night haha, personally I was never that into it but I think a video is a great idea, thanks for the suggestion! :)
Great vid as always.
came across this and I found a difference in sound between not the three types , but the two general kinds of pcb - hot swap and solder. I found the soldered one to be more of the low sound (idk the term sorry), which makes me think that maybe clicky switches might be the best for soldered - no need to lube, etc, while linear or tactile for hotswaps (only for the convenience of lubing aspect though!) :D
why are you underrated
I've heard millmax sockets can affect stabilized keys because the lip raises the switch by something like 1mm. There any truth to this? (Maybe a future video?)
It does raise the switch ever so slightly (less so with 07305), but I haven’t had issues with it yet- I am doing a version 2 of this video so I’ll be sure to include that, thanks for pointing it out!!
7305 sockets are a bit harder to solder but raise the lip by less than 1mm so it isn't an issue most of the time
my Kalih hot-swap socket on Input club K type is detached. can I resolder the socket back on to the PCB?
Is it worth mill-maxing my ducky one 2 mini pcb or just buy new pcb?
Where did you get the keycult T from?
I bought it in aftermarket a few months ago
good informative video - thanx for posting this !!
Nice video man.
Huge different Holy. Goes deeper as we go
Yeah I’m surprised he didn’t hear a difference. I certainly heard a difference between the kailh and soldered/millmax like it was subtle but there. Idk if I’d call it “rattle-y” and probably isn’t noticeable during daily use but in this comparison sounded the worst.
I’ll make a follow up vid with another board in the near future so that we can hopefully get some closure on this, thanks for watching!
I was able to pick out when each test changed with my eyes closed
@@keybonbon no worries. It's just interesting and might only come across on youtube...sound is weird haha. Still a great vid and I've seen it shared on a bunch of discord channels.
Jay Bee do a blind test and see how many people got it right. That would be better. In hindsight, people can always say they can tell a huge difference.
THANK YOU for the video and the content.
However, watching on my phone or PC or any other device, they all sounded different to me. I am a musician, so my ears are trained and maybe that's how I notice it and some don't.
But yeah they all sound different. Soldered sounded more solid to me, next was millmax, last was kailh. Kailh sounded more hollow and plasticy.
does it mean no difference between cheap and expensive pcb ?
Keep up the good work :)
where did you get your usb cable
haha it’s invisible
@@keybonbon noooo your normal black grey one with the black aviator connector
CH3V haha oh! That was a random one I got off of r/mechmarket. In my experience my best looking cables have been from cable makers on Reddit or Etsy
thank you for this video
I've never tried kailh but I've heard that it's possible to knock the socket out. That's why I went with millmax. Knocking it out is effectively impossible
I love soldered, Feels more secure to me, and the experience of soldering is super fun. Hotswap does feels less premium to me.
agree
Is it true that hotswap pbc become loose overtime? im planning to buy my first mechanical keyboard specifically the Keychron k2. But im torn between the hotswap or the solder one k2. Any advice guys?
@@rejanrams depends cause I don’t mess with my hotswap switches at all
@@clackety_ i see. But hearing the sound difference in the video make me wanna buy juat the non hot swap k2. Cause i feel like the solder one has a more crisp sound. But i still cant decide. Anway, thank you for the response.
@@rejanrams yeah because there is literal no shift, hotswap will give you a bit more shift
Sounds (to me) like the only one that really changed the sound was the soldered switches lol
I actually kind of prefer the slightly muted sound of the soldered switches though fml :
What's a halfplate build?
soulderable keyboards are just more exclusive or more in stock than hotswaps cause i wanna build a tkl but ive never seen a hot swap pcb for it
What keycaps
i think millmax sounds more bassey. im right?
Soldering (and desoldering) is just more fun. When I build a keyboard, lubing the switches, greasing the stabs, soldering, etc., it feels like I actually "made it". To me, hot-swap makes the board feel more impersonal - I merely assembled it.
Problem is if a board has a shit pcb, just say goodbye to your solder pads. Tbh i just see hotswap useful if you want to test different switches for key feel, but not for a good daily keyboard.
@@DarkoPetreski ...or if your iron/technique is bollocks, you can even fuck up a decent PCB. Hot swap is certainly more useful and will stress you out less customising your board.
I am torn between a hotswap and non hot swap Keychron k2. what should i get guys? any suggestion? cause some forum saying hotswap keyboards will tend to get loose overtime which makes the switches wobbly. is that true guys?
@@rejanrams whilst I can't speak to the K2, I will say now, after fucking around with so many keyboards during lockdown, I favour hotswap. I haven't got the time. As for longevity of hotswap sockets, you really gonna be yanking switches out enough to cause problems? I mean, finding what works when you first get it maybe but that first year you got your warranty so I wouldn't worry about that unless you're really gonna be swapping switches every week.
Any problems with sockets falling off the PCB? That's my biggest fear when it comes to hotswap PCBs.
i heard a difference from all 3!
Nice video
The dozens and dozens of switch options out there make it so hard for me to commit to soldering something. I enjoy trying different layouts, case designs and form factors. I don't want to lose interest in my expensive keyboard because after hours of use because I grow to prefer the feel of a different switch. Even if I really enjoy the rest of the board.
the REAL problem with hot swap? gl finding one in stock
thank you alot
Soldered sounds best wow! Thanks for this vid, so tradeoffs - You wanna save your switches? (not gonna sound as good), You wanna good sounding keeb? (solder the switches).
the soldered version sounds so much better
You have noise suppression turned on
Solder spacebar sounded the best, most full
wait, there is difference both in sound and wobble. even on the video. also, kailh sockets are pretty fragile.
hmm I could see the argument for difference in sound, but for wobble they were pretty much identical, even using tweezers to try and move the housing didn’t do much, they fit very snug on the plate
gmmk kailh sockets 1 year changed switches 4 times so far seems ok
if we using Mill-Max Hotswap socket, the keycaps height gonna be different though
that's true! I was going to include that here, but the difference was so tiny (less than 1mm) that it didn't seem worth it
I hear that Solder sound Quieter than hotswap.
i personally thought mill mac sockets sounded the best
Ok so I love your videos, but boy do something with that hair. We notice when you play with it between takes, and a bowl cut side swoop needs to be left behind. I say this with love ❤️
Lol it’s my quarantine hair until I can get it cut, it’s even longer now xD
interesting
This video could have been five seconds where he says "No".
Haha well, I don’t know about you but I like to see and hear things for myself versus taking someone’s word for it. Especially in this hobby, there’s a lot of pseudoscience and misinformation out there
the three sound way different bruh
its very different sound lol