Exactly, Mangold is just following KK's orders and she herself has no love or respect for the very LORE the o.g. Creator established. It really is possible to create all new stories while still respecting the lore, just look at the Fallout series, that does a excellent job of making a new story with new, original characters while working within the established lore of the Fallout series of videogames; its why that show did so hugely well and everyone is looking forward to a second season. Mangold is nothing but a puppy dog for KK, he will roll over and do tricks for her and get his little buscuit of a reward afterward. He's honestly pathetic now.
Wasn’t the whole point of unexplored eras is that they can make something without red tape involved? Besides, we are years away from this film even happening still.
For the same reason Kevin J. Anderson, Drew Karpyshyn, Karen Traviss and various other creatives for Legends got to the franchise: to try and make a prestigious IP into something completely different that suits their tastes instead of what it is.
It’s clear that, more often than not, Lucasfilms is hiring directors who are explicitly pitching “my take on Star Wars” instead of “my contribution to the Star Wars mythos”, and this is why they fail.
It certainly looks that way for the most part. At least a respect should be had if not a fan. The thing is, the EU/Legends proves that all kinds of stories, even non-skywalker ones, can be made and done well. The lore can be used as inspiration and not a shackle.
I will never understand why writers think of the lore as an obstacle. It's an opportunity! The reason I am a fan is because of how much interconnected lore. Personally I would have a blast writing a story in a preexisting universe, like these guys get to do. They're like the Scrooge of Hollywood, taking opportunites like these from everyone else and doing nothing with it.
@@perceivedvelocity9914 I say it’s hypocritical in this situation. I mean we condemned JJ Abrams for abusing it, but with this, now it’s important? Give me a break.
@@achaudhari101When people criticize JJ and Disney it's because they didn't plan anything. They just made it up as they went along. A plan with mysteries sprinkled in is essential. Unanswered mysteries make the universe bigger. Answering every question makes the universe smaller.
@@perceivedvelocity9914 I disagree mostly on the grounds that sometimes there should be a definitive answer to some things. I’m not saying I want this movie to reveal the name of Yoda’s species (Though I want to see that in my lifetime but not right now) but some things like how the first lightsaber came to be or what caused the first Sith to become a thing should be something to see happen.
"And I went to eat ice cream and not get fat and I want pretty girls to like me not work out and I want to be rich but I don't want a job." - James Mangold
Loved LOGAN, but Mangold also kept insisting that the movie took place in the same universe as the prior X-Men films, despite the continuity issues and Mangold saying that he did not look at the other entries when making the movie. Really don't like it when filmmakers want to connect their movie to a larger mythos when it detracts from both the standalone movie and the universe it's being inserted into.
@@Dani-kq6qq There was no one saying Mangold had to set Logan in the same universe as the other movies. Before getting bought by Disney, Fox wanted to continue with the X-Men movies. In Logan, they say that no mutants have been born in 25 years, which contradicts the future ending of Days of Future Past where we see there are young mutants at Xavier's School.
I have said it before, if you do not want to create a movie that follows Star Wars cannon, he needs to create a movie that is independent of Star Wars.
It's funny how Mangold says he doesn't want to be tied down by lore. But has no problem being accurate as humanly possible when it comes to his movies like "Walk the Line" and "A Complete Unknown".
It's true, restrictions enhance creativity. It's just selfish Hollywood narcissists wanting to do everything their way because society has spoiled them so much.
@@achaudhari101But they did have the "handcuff" of being trained rigorously by their masters as apprentices on exactly what they needed to do and don't do. You didn't get anywhere in life in Rome without going through the apprenticeship process, unless you were a soldier or a slave, but even they had their masters.
I don't want Star Wars to be ruined by a James Mangold movie...he doesn't want to have to make a movie that feels like Star Wars. Sounds like a marriage that shouldn't happen.
25 000 years is a weird number. I know its from the old EU but why even keep that number? Do they intend to fill that entire timespan eventually? Its so much
I don’t want another creator who “wants to do something new” in Star Wars like Rian Johnson. The distance in time gives him some wiggle room but he should really take a page out of Filoni’s book and take inspiration from the EU.
Rian did it wrong because his job was the focus on making the Sequel Trilogy better and he failed horribly. With this it’s a different time period so there can be wiggle room. Filoni might give Mangold some key ideas but that’s kind of it there.
@ you’re right there is wiggle room and the situation with Rian is different since it’s not the middle of a trilogy. I’m just concerned I guess. Hopefully he does well.
Rewrite the EU, you mean. That's what Filoni does, he says he doesn't want to change it, and then he changes it. I personally prefer if they're not going to continue the EU to stop giving us EU easter eggs, it's just insulting for the people who love that universe.
they're afraid of it fundamentally because the company itself Disney is WOKE and sees everything from the past, i.e. *traditional storytelling* as "Problematic". that's specifically why they have no love or respect for George Lucas Starwars Lore.
The language Mangold chose to use is pretty much always a red flag in my opinion no matter where it's used, but we certainly have a track record with this franchise. If I want to be charitable then I see what he's getting at, this is 25k years in the past after all. Maybe he should've spent a little more time thinking about that statement before he let it rip, but let's be honest there's a greater than zero chance there's some ulterior motive behind his words.
"Don't mess up." Exactly thor! this is why myself and most other passionate Starwars fans simply have no faith or interest in anything "Disney starwars" anymore, because for one good or okay thing - "Andor/Skeleton Crew" Disney do everything else cynically. this is WHY there is so much division and friction between us fans and Lucasfilm today; it's because we just want them to Respect the *Lore!* but they don't even want to go near it let alone respect it. tbh I knew Mangold was a big liability as soon as he was announced 2 yrs ago at that Celebration (has it been that long already?). Because look at how his Indiana Jones movie screwed up the whole lore and overall character of IJ; and that wasn't just because of him but because he worships and prays at the altar of Kathleen Kennedy, he WILL ALWAYS listen purely to her and do things how she wants, and its obvious right now guys that Kennedy has no respect for the very *Lore* George Lucas and his "Lucasfilm" created years ago, she never did. She aims to recontexualize and change up everything about Starwars. that's purely why they've chosen to go thousands of years into the past, instead of thousands of yrs into the future to come up with new stories and do something new. I'll keep sounding like a broken record here but KK is the poison here that just will not allow this hugely beloved brand to heal. And as long as she's there firmly at Lucasfilm there will be millions of us fans who will NEVER support "Disney Starwars" not any new movies or shows that come out; sorry but this is how it has to be when you care bout something alot you gotta take a stand somewhere.
Disney has screwed up so much - when they said the EU was not Canon, they killed Star Wars. They are lucky people seem to like Skeleton Crew. I am pretty positive on my YT channel on Skeleton Crew. We shall see!
If it’s a great story, then go for it. Skeleton Crew doesn’t follow what most fans would expect and it’s fantastic. Immediate reactions are ‘this is different and you’ll screw it up’. I can’t think or create all the wonderful storylines that are possible. Make a great story regardless of my expectations.
That kinda thinking is whats led to a decade of “Jedi bad” storylines. Killing the hopeful vibe Lucas tried instill with a Libertarian fever dream of “everyone bad except me”.
@@NewDealDem2187 I get it, there's a lot of bad stories and messaging being pushed through. My point is that a movie or show is possible where I think/feel 'wow, I would never have thought of that and it's awesome'. That could be a new character, an old character's journey, a world, a weapon, a new enemy. I don't want a character to change where it makes no sense. I'm open to storytelling that makes me say 'well done!' Empire Strikes back was SO different than A New Hope, and I love it. Godzilla Minus One is so different and I love it. They fit in their universes, but it's not what I expected. Godzilla x Kong is what I expected and it's ok but also kinda forgettable, in my opinion. I'll watch Minus One over and over though. They are great stories, they fit in their universe but weren't safe either, and I love them. I'm asking for good stories.
@@DallasSoundGuys the idea of different and interesting stories is great. I definitely don’t have the same issues that some people seem to have with the characters in Disney Star Wars, cultural stuff just does not bother me or I dont notice it haha. It is the need from some directors like Johnson to want to make Star Wars ‘their’ thing, Last Jedi broke lore to no purpose IMO. So I’m leery of Mangold or anyone saying they want to do their own thing, lore wise. I just think that Star Wars should not be doing all the ‘both sides’ or grey jedi stuff. Never liked it. It was always a Space Opera, not sci-fi to me. You can have nuance without taking agency from ‘the bad guys’. -sorry to be paragraph guy haha
@@NewDealDem2187 I agree with you, I don't want core lore changed where a follower of Star Wars says, this doesn't make sense. Here's an example that may or may not land well. I follow Jesus and not all denominations think or do the exact same thing. Is this an 'open handed' issue or a 'closed handed' issue. Meaning is this the Gospel or are you changing something that is foundational? There is a difference between truth and preference. Back to Star Wars, I don't want something foundational changed, but good story telling that might not fit my preference is ok. The first few episodes of Skeleton Crew I started the video thinking 'I don't want to watch this'. Then I liked it. That was my preference talking, not something foundational. I know what I mean but hope I'm able to explain it well. Thanks for your insights!
@ example for me is this idea from Johnson that he was changing who could be a Jedi and who couldnt. It was something like ‘now everyone can be one, unlike before.’ Then you look at the Jedi in movies, books, etc and its filled with a bunch of characters from diff planets. I mean who was Obi-wan?”, so that was a change with no difference to me, all so he could have Yoda burn the tree or whatever for dramatic effect. So while that was going on a bunch of people were arguing over who had purple hair… This is evident to me of you watch Generation Tech vids, love all the knowledge they have and long time fan, hate their opinion on the Jedi and Republic.
I get what Mangold is saying ... I think this is all an over-reaction, plus it's not KK who greenlights the scripts/stories now, it's Filoni, so someone who understands the "lore" is in charge (sort-of, lol). The Acolyte was already written & greenlight & filmed when Filoni took over, so he probably didn't have much say in it, but Mangold won't have that luxury.
Yes this is all an over-reaction to what's he's saying. Thor says you don't have restrictions in star wars, but how much of his Kenobi reviews were how much this doesn't fit into Episode 4? And how much of his Acolyte reviews were how this demishes the Prequels? He can say there's no restrictions but Skeleton Crew is different because it deals with completely new lore and characters. The first question every asks when a new Jedi is introduced in the Reign of the Empire period is "how will they die?", as we know they're not in the OT. Mangold just wants to make a story where he can have complete reigh
Filoni doesn't understand lore, lol. And anyway, you're putting way too much stock on Filoni's promotion. That was just a PR stunt to justify giving the favorite company toady a bigger paycheck, he's been essentially doing the same job he is right now for years before he was made Chief Creative Officer, whatever that meaningless Hollywood word spam means. Kennedy admits she ran all story ideas past him at the start and Filoni was involved in the development of the sequels. He's not the man you think he is.
@@enkille2 The idea Lesley had was interesting where some Jedi would do dirty underhanded things to protect their image. Problem was that it was not executed well.
@@achaudhari101 okej, she also said it's wrong for gorge to hold all the keys etc. and that she need.and that she needed to do something new with star wars, I mean why not build on it instead of doing something new,
@@enkille2 Well George didn't have ALL the keys since his wife saved ANH and then you have John Williams in terms of the music so I believe that's what she meant wit that comment. Sometimes doing something different isn't always a bad thing.
@@achaudhari101 search for How is Lucasfilm Ok with This...I Really Don't Get it. on youtube, from star wars theory, watch that video its about lesley headland and you will see what exactly she said
4:20 The reason they feel its so "constricting" is because they have a superficial idea of what Star Wars is. Thats why they cant escape this time period well, in the Sequels they had to destroy the New Republic because they didnt want to have to write it. Mando did something great by knowing what Star Wars can be, and now we actually have a really interesting setting in the New Republic where people are excited about all the elements. Andor as well eschews the mystic element to a degree (but its definitely there in the subtext). Disney gotta stop thinking about what Star Wars is, and what it could be, because Mangold thinks hes contrained by the former so he wants to "not be held back", but if he embraces the latter he can see what could be!
Look, I’m not asking for every Star Wars director/writer to know every micron of Star Wars lore, but at least refer to consultants like Sam Witwer, or assemble a board of Star Wars lore experts. Sam Witwer especially is a good one, because he won’t tell you what you can and can’t do, he’ll offer guidance and explain what implications arise from certain creative decisions.
That's supposedly what the story group is for, but they can't tell vain, ego-stricken, narcissistic Hollywood directors what to do, they're too selfish for that.
Another person that does not want to regard StarWars as established… what a surprise! You nailed it Thor…starting at the beginning is not the same as making bad shows
The guy who wrote Mandalorian was a fan of Star Wars. It showed its reception with other fans. The guy who wrote Ashoka was a fan of Ashoka. That also showed in his writing. This guy is a fan of Mangold. It will reflect in his writing.
I would watch a show of a bunch of people who just run businesses in a city that get together to do a book club. While, thats happening there under imperial lockdown or something in the background that hasnt affected them just yet. There is so much you can do with these Ip's it's tragic how much these people lack creativity...
The first Jedi order doesn’t have to be the basis for the one we see in the prequels. The ideals may go through multiple changes, rules can change. 25,000 years is a long time. In the British Iron Age (began at 800 BC) Britons believed in numerous gods, such as Damara, the fertility goddess, and spirits (genii) that inhabit specific places. Today Christianity, a monotheistic religion, is the most predominant region in Britain. It is not a contradiction if the first Jedi Order thinks and explains about the force differently; it is expected.
I understand where he's coming from but it is still concerning. Even though the EU is not considered canon (which to be fair is similar to the position Lucas held), creating a movie that might be very different from what is in the EU is still going to piss off a lot of fans.
So he doesn't want to be "handcuffed" to Star Wars lore. He doesn't want to be weighed down by the canon? Then here's an idea. Don't make something in a universe that has been so heavily established.
I think there's two main ways to look at Star Wars. Some people love Star Wars because they're interested in the lore, the history of the universe, the finer details. And then there's others who love Star Wars movies because they're Flash Gordon inspired action-adventure films. And I think most people who are brought on by Lucasfilm to produce Star Wars projects belong to the latter camp; they enjoy the adventure, the spaceships, the action, they're not too interested in the lore. And that's not necessarily a problem on its own. The problem is that these people keep choosing projects that are heavy on the lore, The Acolyte being the big example. If they feel 'shackled' by heavy Star Wars canon, Lucasfilm really should stop hiring these people to tackle these lore-heavy projects, and assign them to things like 'Skeleton Crew' which emphasise the action-adventure side of Star Wars that they seem more interested in.
...After finally convincing Bob Solo that Princess Daisy is worth saving, Kathy Skywalker hatches a plot which involves Jamesbacca the Director... BOB: What’s your plan? KATHY: Uh…JJ-8, hand me those binders there will you? Kathy moves toward Jamesbacca with electronic cuffs. KATHY: Okay. Now, I’m going to put these on you. Jimmie lets out a hideous growl... 《*WWAAHH!!! RRWWWGG RAWRGWAWGGR!!! RRRAARRWHHGWWR!!!》 KATHY: Okay. Bob, you put these on. Kathy sheepishly hands the binders to Bob. BOB: Don’t worry, Jimmie. I think I know what she has in mind. The Director has a worried and frightened look on his face as Bob binds him with the electronic cuffs. 👽 🖖 🤖 (*Translation: boohoo!!! i don't wanna be handcuffed to lore!!! i wanna do my own thing!!!)
How do you hire a guy with this ideology? It’s stuff like this that highlights that clearly Disney still has no idea what the hell they are doing. There has been no course correction whatsoever.
@@roble8943 George Lucas isn't a writer, he hates writing, and he always wanted someone else to write the story of Star Wars while he focused on how the camera works.
He wanted to tell the story he wanted...and not every idea to drop out of his mouth was gold. See what Han Solo was originally going to be. But he mostly DID tell his own story...and his wife saved it in the editorial process. But it was mostly his story with his themes and his ideas. He did not rewrite a sequel to Casablanca...because he would need to be true to the characters. That is the duty of following up in someone else's sandbox.
More like writing "Jesus Christ Superstar: A Zodiak killer Biopic" Why bother connecting these stories at all if you aren't actively "connecting" the stories at all?
Big frigging deal he said that about Big Moments. He had a chance to do the 'Big Moment' thing in Dial of Destiny... and...he...failed! We were supposed to fall in love with Fleabag and we didn't. So this is like me saying 'I need to be charming to have a successful relationship' and being entirely incapable for doing such a thing. This is him setting the bar SOFA KING low. "You can't judge me!' Well, buddy, yeah I can. I wonder how many shiny spectacles KK offered him to work for her again?
James Mangold doesn't want to be handcuffed by the lore from Star Wars but wants to go back to the very beginning to possibly rewrite the Star Wars lore. It's the same thing that happened with The Acolyte. It does not follow the lore of Star Wars and tries deviate from plot lines that were established in Episode 1 so they can create their own rules.
Fear not filmmakers, if you get in with Disney you can tarnish a major franchise, lose $150 million dollars on one movie and still get a starwars project
Concerned because KK knows that “the origin” of the Jedi is just another opportunity to cement her legacy in Star Wars because unlike Andor and Skeleton Crew (and initially Mando) the ORIGIN DOES matter to the very nature of Star Wars. She will sink her claws in deep.
Just GTFO right now…for real. I guarantee this will now be thrown in his and Disneys face when it fails to attract the core Star Wars audience and audiences in general.
well that just means I am no longer interested in this movie, because if you can't make an engaging movie with established lore then you aren't interested in making a story set in that setting seriously.
What a waste of potential, money and efforts, they just don't learn, is this going to be DOA?! Mangold needs to work in projects he believes he can add something (like he did with Logan), be creative not guided by his greed or destroying what was created, if those were his words, his intentions aren't to rebuild
Clearly the sky was never a Star Wars role playing fanfiction writer. Man those were some good times in college! There is some epic Star Wars fanfic out there, and us crazy amateur writers love the lore. It makes me so sad that these people just want to tell their own story and use Star Wars as a selfish way of getting what they want because they know they can't stand on their own. Like the acolyte
6:31 I can't say dial of destiny moved me in any way. I don't want more of that franchise. Also, that's surprisingly close to what the last jedi director thinks of his work. Doesn't bode well.
He will not be shackled by Star Wars lore in any time period, Disney/Lucasfilm has long proven to not care about lore, either old Star Wars or their own. Although he will be shackled by Kennedy and other higher ups. Its pretty much the same reason why they have so many projects announced but never developed, cause they try to shackle their creatives for what ever lame vision Kennedy and others have.
as a DM and role player I have written 100s of stories set in many worlds that were not mine the lore is there to give you building blocks... if you don't want to use the lore then go write your own shit set in your own world its not hard
writing in someone's universe is 100% easier than making up their own universe. the force can do this and this. thats your magic system. make up characters that can exist inside that should be easy!!
I don't think anyone's asking for a film/series to be so accurate to the lore that they get minute details right from 20 year old books or anything, but at the same time, when there are only 3 films set in the old republic time period, and you want to add literally ONE high council member to the plot of your show. YES, I expect you to crack open a fucking visual dictionary at the VERY least and figure out he's way too young to appear, or at least watch his MAYBE 7 minutes of screentime (max) in the prequel trilogy and maybe be familiar with probably his second most famous line after "what about the attack on the wookies". It's literally the second most notable thing about Mundi in the prequels and basically his only line in episode 1.
Mangold was suppose to direct a Boba Fett movie if I recall. Maybe it’s the reason why it was cancelled? Cause of the weight of the lore? Could be a good thing if he felt not comfortable then and choose a project without any connections with the past movies. Let’s wait.
I mean, how is that different from Dave Filoni retconning anything and everything from books and novels if he wants to do something he thinks is cool with Ahsoka RIGHT NOW? Continuity is dead; it's just a question of WHOSE continuity you have to acknowledge. And as LFL eventually reshuffles personnel, today's sacred pillars will be tomorrow's sand trod underfoot.
The lore argument never made any sense to me. A crime drama set in our own modern time is basically constrained by the lore of our universe, an author doesn't need to change how guns work, or how car / train /plane travel works etc..., In order to create a new unique and good story.
Iisn't this what Bioware did for KOTOR? Ie he just means he will have a lot more freedom to tell a story without getting caught in the nitty gritty, but still has EU stuff to fall back on for inspiration. Also, I really doubt he is allowed to jump forward!! beyond what the sequals have set up.
Hey Thor and Naboo! Sorry Naboo, but Thor has a point and can die on his hill with extreme prejudice. Haha. James Mangold’s ignorance about not wanting to adhere to the sandbox of the lore is exactly why Dial of Destiny failed as miserably as it did. Dawn of the Jedi has already been done in the EU. And substance AND context matters. Not wanting to abide by what makes Star Wars, Star Wars is why Lucasfilm is in the utter mess it’s in, in the first place. Not to mention going back 25K years to the Jedi origin is completely unnecessary and can be done in a montage of an Old Republic movie. Which would please the fanbase a lot better. And be a lot more profitable to Lucasfilm and Disney’s bottom line. All and all, this movie is a waste of time and a ploy to prolong Kennedy in her eventual retirement, which is way way past due. Thank you for letting me rant.
@@terrythompson1873 Here’s some points. One, Dial of Destiny failed because the budget was too high and Ford was an 80 year old man trying to be a superhero. I do think though it was an overhated movie though. Second, that comic you mentioned wasn’t even praised when the EU was “Canon”. Third, why would they do an Old Republic anything when one screwup and it would literally kill the franchise for good? Fourth, 25K years in the past can allow some wiggle room in creating a new era and do some different things like not having lightsabers but Force imbued swords for example. I say you’re overreacting a bit here.
@ get back at me when you know Dawn of the Jedi was more than just a comic book. Having said that. I’m not in the business of placating Kathleen Kennedy and solely placing blame on Mangold when Lucasfilm and its mandate was to deconstruct everything in their wheelhouse cinematically. The Dawn era is again, completely unnecessary and can be folded easily into the Old Republic era. Where stories are already established and fans would clamber to see those instead of a Dawn of the Jedi movie. The Qel-Droma brothers. Nomi Sunrider. Exar Kun. Vima Sunrider. The Krath Sith sect. A small example of many. Why the EU is a stronger narrative than Kathleen Kennedy and her axe grinding philosophy.
Sounds to me like he shouldn't be doing Star Wars then... That said, as you point out, as long as you're not telling a story specifically about known main characters it's a pretty big Galaxy out there! My problem with Disney doing Dawn of the Jedi is they'll most likely just ruin it all in their image thus affecting everything to come after. I'd rather they just start over after the Sequel Trilogy and else everything else alone at this point. They could also do something post ROTJ loosely connected to Mandoverse and not affect canon. IMO anyone who reject canon are people who cannot stand rule or are plain lazy and don't want to think of ways to tell a story that adds to the lore, they want to be the new lore. And my response to that is, if you want to be unchained do Indie movies or stuff that's not attached to decades of lore.
To me it seems like he does want to make a Star Wars movie but since there's a crap ton of comics and books and expanded universe stuff, it would be difficult to not accidently contradict any of that lore, so he just wants to make something that takes place in a time period where there's little risk of ruining canon.
Emotional impact does not make a movie or tv show good. Having a well structured plot, with compelling characters can be both intellectually satisfying and emotionally hard hitting. When you sacrifice one for the other, you are cheapening the product. Not trying to throw shade or anything, just heard that line from Naboo and thought “that’s not true… if it was then Ashoka would be considered a masterpiece…when it’s literal garbage…”
Here we go again. Want to know why star wars is so F’d up, no one watches their crap, and the majority can’t stand lucasfilm? Because they bring in a-holes like mangold who don’t respect the lore or the franchise itself and want to do their own thing. This will be a dumpster fire on many levels.
Even if you make a movie about an era way, way back in time, it must fit with what have been done after, otherwise, nothing makes sense. I suppose 25k years give you a little more latitude, but still we can't change all the rules. 🤔
I wish him the best but after he made Indy 5, I don't believe he can make SW. The only feeling I have after the latest Indiana is being annoyed and that it was a spectatle over substance.
Then maybe he shouldn't be making a Star Wars movie!!! WTF is even the point if he wants to rewrite everything?? Does that mean he doesn't even care about SW?
"I don't want to be shackled to what came before" is an odd sentiment when you're doing what's supposed to be the thing that came first.
So he is right
Exactly, Mangold is just following KK's orders and she herself has no love or respect for the very LORE the o.g. Creator established. It really is possible to create all new stories while still respecting the lore, just look at the Fallout series, that does a excellent job of making a new story with new, original characters while working within the established lore of the Fallout series of videogames; its why that show did so hugely well and everyone is looking forward to a second season.
Mangold is nothing but a puppy dog for KK, he will roll over and do tricks for her and get his little buscuit of a reward afterward. He's honestly pathetic now.
if he doesn't want to make a movie set in the universe and mythos of star wars, why is he making a star wars movie?
It’s 25,000 years in the past. This is an exception.
Stop asking intelligent questions 😐
@@achaudhari101 The force is still the same!! The laws of the universe don't change in 25000 years.
Wasn’t the whole point of unexplored eras is that they can make something without red tape involved? Besides, we are years away from this film even happening still.
For the same reason Kevin J. Anderson, Drew Karpyshyn, Karen Traviss and various other creatives for Legends got to the franchise: to try and make a prestigious IP into something completely different that suits their tastes instead of what it is.
It’s clear that, more often than not, Lucasfilms is hiring directors who are explicitly pitching “my take on Star Wars” instead of “my contribution to the Star Wars mythos”, and this is why they fail.
It certainly looks that way for the most part. At least a respect should be had if not a fan. The thing is, the EU/Legends proves that all kinds of stories, even non-skywalker ones, can be made and done well.
The lore can be used as inspiration and not a shackle.
I do not want James Mangold's sci fi story with a Star Wars skin slapped on.
I will never understand why writers think of the lore as an obstacle. It's an opportunity! The reason I am a fan is because of how much interconnected lore. Personally I would have a blast writing a story in a preexisting universe, like these guys get to do. They're like the Scrooge of Hollywood, taking opportunites like these from everyone else and doing nothing with it.
I see the so-called "limitations" of lore to in fact be a challenge that tests a writer's creativity.
It sounds like he’s interested in leveraging the brand for his own benefit rather than preserving the essence lore.
How? It’s a film so far away from the main series that anything can happen.
@@achaudhari101 Not anything.
Anything involving how the Jedi evolved over the millennia.
@@achaudhari101 If they copy the EU would be great. Or George Lucas stuff (LORE)
EU isn’t Canon and even that comic with the same name wasn’t liked either.
And they shake their heads wondering why it wasn’t successful. You can’t fix stupidity.😂
"doesn't want to be handcuffed by the lore"? Then write your own goddamned space opera movie.
Shouldn’t be done. The more they make stuff, the mysteries are unveiled, and the magic diminishes.
Oh now the mystery box is important all of a sudden.
@@achaudhari101It always has been. A implied history is better than anything that a writer can come up with.
@@perceivedvelocity9914 I say it’s hypocritical in this situation. I mean we condemned JJ Abrams for abusing it, but with this, now it’s important? Give me a break.
@@achaudhari101When people criticize JJ and Disney it's because they didn't plan anything. They just made it up as they went along. A plan with mysteries sprinkled in is essential. Unanswered mysteries make the universe bigger. Answering every question makes the universe smaller.
@@perceivedvelocity9914 I disagree mostly on the grounds that sometimes there should be a definitive answer to some things. I’m not saying I want this movie to reveal the name of Yoda’s species (Though I want to see that in my lifetime but not right now) but some things like how the first lightsaber came to be or what caused the first Sith to become a thing should be something to see happen.
"I have a bad feeling about this..." LOL
Gonna flop harder than his indy film tbh
Based on what?
I still find it so weird he made something amazing like Logan then made a complete piece of shit of an indy movie lol
Dial of Destiny was definitely not a bad movie. In fact I argue it was way overhated.
I still have to watch Dial of destiny. I was done with Indy after Kingdom of the crystal skull…
@@achaudhari101 Fair, and it grossed decent money, they just spent an unreasonable amount to make it
It’s what he signed up for. If he doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t have decided to make a Star Wars movie.
"And I went to eat ice cream and not get fat and I want pretty girls to like me not work out and I want to be rich but I don't want a job." - James Mangold
Loved LOGAN, but Mangold also kept insisting that the movie took place in the same universe as the prior X-Men films, despite the continuity issues and Mangold saying that he did not look at the other entries when making the movie. Really don't like it when filmmakers want to connect their movie to a larger mythos when it detracts from both the standalone movie and the universe it's being inserted into.
Logan being in the prior x-men films is just a fact, it isnt up to him to change that, thats official lore.
@@Dani-kq6qq There was no one saying Mangold had to set Logan in the same universe as the other movies. Before getting bought by Disney, Fox wanted to continue with the X-Men movies.
In Logan, they say that no mutants have been born in 25 years, which contradicts the future ending of Days of Future Past where we see there are young mutants at Xavier's School.
I have said it before, if you do not want to create a movie that follows Star Wars cannon, he needs to create a movie that is independent of Star Wars.
It's funny how Mangold says he doesn't want to be tied down by lore. But has no problem being accurate as humanly possible when it comes to his movies like "Walk the Line" and "A Complete Unknown".
The fact it’s tied to that “Prime Jedi”
mosaic from The Last Jedi is enough to put me off my lunch 🍱
He didn’t care about Indiana Jones lore either, opting to kill off Mutt, break up Indy and Marion, and undo the happy ending of Crystal Skull.
If you find restrictions on what you can do as “handcuffs” you aren’t an artist.
Architects made beautiful buildings and things without a handcuff of college on them.
@@achaudhari101oh, they did. It’s just the laws of physics are less forgiving than Star Wars fans
@@achaudhari101sure, but usually permits and physics won out, Rome may not have fallen in a day, but they trained their architects.
It's true, restrictions enhance creativity. It's just selfish Hollywood narcissists wanting to do everything their way because society has spoiled them so much.
@@achaudhari101But they did have the "handcuff" of being trained rigorously by their masters as apprentices on exactly what they needed to do and don't do. You didn't get anywhere in life in Rome without going through the apprenticeship process, unless you were a soldier or a slave, but even they had their masters.
Ridley Scott also didn't want to be handcuffed by the "lore" while working on his Napoleon movie.
agreed,what should have been an cinematic masterpiece turned out to be pure crap 😓
If you hate the lore… don’t do a Star Wars movie. This is pure nonsense
I don't want Star Wars to be ruined by a James Mangold movie...he doesn't want to have to make a movie that feels like Star Wars. Sounds like a marriage that shouldn't happen.
How are Disney and the people who work with them so good at giving their projects bad press years before release
25 000 years is a weird number. I know its from the old EU but why even keep that number? Do they intend to fill that entire timespan eventually? Its so much
Kathleen Kennedy: Thanks, James. You gave me a Star Wars story, but I want a Leslye Headland movie.
James Mangold: ….what?!
I don’t want another creator who “wants to do something new” in Star Wars like Rian Johnson. The distance in time gives him some wiggle room but he should really take a page out of Filoni’s book and take inspiration from the EU.
Rian did it wrong because his job was the focus on making the Sequel Trilogy better and he failed horribly. With this it’s a different time period so there can be wiggle room. Filoni might give Mangold some key ideas but that’s kind of it there.
@ you’re right there is wiggle room and the situation with Rian is different since it’s not the middle of a trilogy. I’m just concerned I guess. Hopefully he does well.
Rewrite the EU, you mean. That's what Filoni does, he says he doesn't want to change it, and then he changes it. I personally prefer if they're not going to continue the EU to stop giving us EU easter eggs, it's just insulting for the people who love that universe.
I'm not having a good feeling about Mangold's attitude going in to this. He should be embracing Star Wars lore. Not being afraid of ir.
they're afraid of it fundamentally because the company itself Disney is WOKE and sees everything from the past, i.e. *traditional storytelling* as "Problematic". that's specifically why they have no love or respect for George Lucas Starwars Lore.
The language Mangold chose to use is pretty much always a red flag in my opinion no matter where it's used, but we certainly have a track record with this franchise. If I want to be charitable then I see what he's getting at, this is 25k years in the past after all. Maybe he should've spent a little more time thinking about that statement before he let it rip, but let's be honest there's a greater than zero chance there's some ulterior motive behind his words.
"I dont want to be shackled by the lore" well, too bad (?
"Don't mess up." Exactly thor! this is why myself and most other passionate Starwars fans simply have no faith or interest in anything "Disney starwars" anymore, because for one good or okay thing - "Andor/Skeleton Crew" Disney do everything else cynically. this is WHY there is so much division and friction between us fans and Lucasfilm today; it's because we just want them to Respect the *Lore!* but they don't even want to go near it let alone respect it.
tbh I knew Mangold was a big liability as soon as he was announced 2 yrs ago at that Celebration (has it been that long already?). Because look at how his Indiana Jones movie screwed up the whole lore and overall character of IJ; and that wasn't just because of him but because he worships and prays at the altar of Kathleen Kennedy, he WILL ALWAYS listen purely to her and do things how she wants, and its obvious right now guys that Kennedy has no respect for the very *Lore* George Lucas and his "Lucasfilm" created years ago, she never did. She aims to recontexualize and change up everything about Starwars. that's purely why they've chosen to go thousands of years into the past, instead of thousands of yrs into the future to come up with new stories and do something new. I'll keep sounding like a broken record here but KK is the poison here that just will not allow this hugely beloved brand to heal. And as long as she's there firmly at Lucasfilm there will be millions of us fans who will NEVER support "Disney Starwars" not any new movies or shows that come out; sorry but this is how it has to be when you care bout something alot you gotta take a stand somewhere.
Disney has screwed up so much - when they said the EU was not Canon, they killed Star Wars. They are lucky people seem to like Skeleton Crew. I am pretty positive on my YT channel on Skeleton Crew. We shall see!
If it’s a great story, then go for it. Skeleton Crew doesn’t follow what most fans would expect and it’s fantastic. Immediate reactions are ‘this is different and you’ll screw it up’. I can’t think or create all the wonderful storylines that are possible. Make a great story regardless of my expectations.
That kinda thinking is whats led to a decade of “Jedi bad” storylines. Killing the hopeful vibe Lucas tried instill with a Libertarian fever dream of “everyone bad except me”.
@@NewDealDem2187 I get it, there's a lot of bad stories and messaging being pushed through. My point is that a movie or show is possible where I think/feel 'wow, I would never have thought of that and it's awesome'. That could be a new character, an old character's journey, a world, a weapon, a new enemy. I don't want a character to change where it makes no sense. I'm open to storytelling that makes me say 'well done!' Empire Strikes back was SO different than A New Hope, and I love it. Godzilla Minus One is so different and I love it. They fit in their universes, but it's not what I expected. Godzilla x Kong is what I expected and it's ok but also kinda forgettable, in my opinion. I'll watch Minus One over and over though. They are great stories, they fit in their universe but weren't safe either, and I love them. I'm asking for good stories.
@@DallasSoundGuys the idea of different and interesting stories is great. I definitely don’t have the same issues that some people seem to have with the characters in Disney Star Wars, cultural stuff just does not bother me or I dont notice it haha. It is the need from some directors like Johnson to want to make Star Wars ‘their’ thing, Last Jedi broke lore to no purpose IMO. So I’m leery of Mangold or anyone saying they want to do their own thing, lore wise. I just think that Star Wars should not be doing all the ‘both sides’ or grey jedi stuff. Never liked it. It was always a Space Opera, not sci-fi to me. You can have nuance without taking agency from ‘the bad guys’. -sorry to be paragraph guy haha
@@NewDealDem2187 I agree with you, I don't want core lore changed where a follower of Star Wars says, this doesn't make sense. Here's an example that may or may not land well. I follow Jesus and not all denominations think or do the exact same thing. Is this an 'open handed' issue or a 'closed handed' issue. Meaning is this the Gospel or are you changing something that is foundational? There is a difference between truth and preference. Back to Star Wars, I don't want something foundational changed, but good story telling that might not fit my preference is ok. The first few episodes of Skeleton Crew I started the video thinking 'I don't want to watch this'. Then I liked it. That was my preference talking, not something foundational. I know what I mean but hope I'm able to explain it well. Thanks for your insights!
@ example for me is this idea from Johnson that he was changing who could be a Jedi and who couldnt. It was something like ‘now everyone can be one, unlike before.’ Then you look at the Jedi in movies, books, etc and its filled with a bunch of characters from diff planets. I mean who was Obi-wan?”, so that was a change with no difference to me, all so he could have Yoda burn the tree or whatever for dramatic effect. So while that was going on a bunch of people were arguing over who had purple hair…
This is evident to me of you watch Generation Tech vids, love all the knowledge they have and long time fan, hate their opinion on the Jedi and Republic.
I get what Mangold is saying ... I think this is all an over-reaction, plus it's not KK who greenlights the scripts/stories now, it's Filoni, so someone who understands the "lore" is in charge (sort-of, lol). The Acolyte was already written & greenlight & filmed when Filoni took over, so he probably didn't have much say in it, but Mangold won't have that luxury.
Yes this is all an over-reaction to what's he's saying. Thor says you don't have restrictions in star wars, but how much of his Kenobi reviews were how much this doesn't fit into Episode 4? And how much of his Acolyte reviews were how this demishes the Prequels? He can say there's no restrictions but Skeleton Crew is different because it deals with completely new lore and characters. The first question every asks when a new Jedi is introduced in the Reign of the Empire period is "how will they die?", as we know they're not in the OT. Mangold just wants to make a story where he can have complete reigh
Filoni doesn't understand lore, lol. And anyway, you're putting way too much stock on Filoni's promotion. That was just a PR stunt to justify giving the favorite company toady a bigger paycheck, he's been essentially doing the same job he is right now for years before he was made Chief Creative Officer, whatever that meaningless Hollywood word spam means. Kennedy admits she ran all story ideas past him at the start and Filoni was involved in the development of the sequels. He's not the man you think he is.
@@saberiandream316 Ok Mr. Salty
he want to make his own starwars, like leslye headland.. 2:14 and i am with thor on this one "dont mess up"
@@enkille2 The idea Lesley had was interesting where some Jedi would do dirty underhanded things to protect their image. Problem was that it was not executed well.
@@achaudhari101 okej, she also said it's wrong for gorge to hold all the keys etc. and that she need.and that she needed to do something new with star wars, I mean why not build on it instead of doing something new,
@@enkille2 Well George didn't have ALL the keys since his wife saved ANH and then you have John Williams in terms of the music so I believe that's what she meant wit that comment. Sometimes doing something different isn't always a bad thing.
@@achaudhari101 search for How is Lucasfilm Ok with This...I Really Don't Get it. on youtube, from star wars theory, watch that video its about lesley headland and you will see what exactly she said
Disney is still not learning anything.
4:20
The reason they feel its so "constricting" is because they have a superficial idea of what Star Wars is. Thats why they cant escape this time period well, in the Sequels they had to destroy the New Republic because they didnt want to have to write it. Mando did something great by knowing what Star Wars can be, and now we actually have a really interesting setting in the New Republic where people are excited about all the elements. Andor as well eschews the mystic element to a degree (but its definitely there in the subtext). Disney gotta stop thinking about what Star Wars is, and what it could be, because Mangold thinks hes contrained by the former so he wants to "not be held back", but if he embraces the latter he can see what could be!
Look, I’m not asking for every Star Wars director/writer to know every micron of Star Wars lore, but at least refer to consultants like Sam Witwer, or assemble a board of Star Wars lore experts.
Sam Witwer especially is a good one, because he won’t tell you what you can and can’t do, he’ll offer guidance and explain what implications arise from certain creative decisions.
That's supposedly what the story group is for, but they can't tell vain, ego-stricken, narcissistic Hollywood directors what to do, they're too selfish for that.
I think these people should avoid doing interviews and just make what they're going to make. If it's good it will speak for itself.
In other words, like pretty much all the new MaüsHaüs StûrWûrz "creators," "Whatevah! Ah do what Ah want!"
I know the director that can start entire SW universe. His name is Denis Villeneuve. Only him can make this movie properly and make fans happy.
I think the translation of his statement is: the Skywalker era sucks now and I don’t want to make a movie in it
Another person that does not want to regard StarWars as established… what a surprise! You nailed it Thor…starting at the beginning is not the same as making bad shows
The guy who wrote Mandalorian was a fan of Star Wars. It showed its reception with other fans.
The guy who wrote Ashoka was a fan of Ashoka. That also showed in his writing.
This guy is a fan of Mangold. It will reflect in his writing.
Disney should just hire some fanfiction writers.
I would watch a show of a bunch of people who just run businesses in a city that get together to do a book club. While, thats happening there under imperial lockdown or something in the background that hasnt affected them just yet. There is so much you can do with these Ip's it's tragic how much these people lack creativity...
If he doesn’t want to be “handcuffed” by lore, then why do a franchise?
The first Jedi order doesn’t have to be the basis for the one we see in the prequels. The ideals may go through multiple changes, rules can change. 25,000 years is a long time. In the British Iron Age (began at 800 BC) Britons believed in numerous gods, such as Damara, the fertility goddess, and spirits (genii) that inhabit specific places. Today Christianity, a monotheistic religion, is the most predominant region in Britain. It is not a contradiction if the first Jedi Order thinks and explains about the force differently; it is expected.
@@rafikshaheed4271 Now that would be something I’d say in interviews. Historical context is always a good back up with these statements.
Brace yourself for disappointment
I understand where he's coming from but it is still concerning. Even though the EU is not considered canon (which to be fair is similar to the position Lucas held), creating a movie that might be very different from what is in the EU is still going to piss off a lot of fans.
So he doesn't want to be "handcuffed" to Star Wars lore. He doesn't want to be weighed down by the canon? Then here's an idea. Don't make something in a universe that has been so heavily established.
I think there's two main ways to look at Star Wars. Some people love Star Wars because they're interested in the lore, the history of the universe, the finer details. And then there's others who love Star Wars movies because they're Flash Gordon inspired action-adventure films. And I think most people who are brought on by Lucasfilm to produce Star Wars projects belong to the latter camp; they enjoy the adventure, the spaceships, the action, they're not too interested in the lore. And that's not necessarily a problem on its own. The problem is that these people keep choosing projects that are heavy on the lore, The Acolyte being the big example. If they feel 'shackled' by heavy Star Wars canon, Lucasfilm really should stop hiring these people to tackle these lore-heavy projects, and assign them to things like 'Skeleton Crew' which emphasise the action-adventure side of Star Wars that they seem more interested in.
If they were truly creatives, they would do their homework and find a way to make an interesting and compelling story within established lore...
...After finally convincing Bob Solo that Princess Daisy is worth saving, Kathy Skywalker hatches a plot which involves Jamesbacca the Director...
BOB: What’s your plan?
KATHY: Uh…JJ-8, hand me those binders there will you?
Kathy moves toward Jamesbacca with electronic cuffs.
KATHY: Okay. Now, I’m going to put these on you.
Jimmie lets out a hideous growl...
《*WWAAHH!!! RRWWWGG
RAWRGWAWGGR!!! RRRAARRWHHGWWR!!!》
KATHY: Okay. Bob, you put these on.
Kathy sheepishly hands the binders to Bob.
BOB: Don’t worry, Jimmie. I think I know what she has in mind.
The Director has a worried and frightened look on his face as Bob binds him with the electronic cuffs.
👽 🖖 🤖
(*Translation: boohoo!!! i don't wanna be handcuffed to lore!!! i wanna do my own thing!!!)
7:05 that’d be Demi Moore, then 🥸
Jusst seeing that mural makes me feels worried. :-/
How do you hire a guy with this ideology? It’s stuff like this that highlights that clearly Disney still has no idea what the hell they are doing. There has been no course correction whatsoever.
I mean... George Lucas had the same exact sentiment. He wanted to tell the story he wanted to tell.
And after the Prequels, he slowly began to hate his creation.
I don't think George Lucas is that selfish.
@saberiandream316 "I don't think George Lucas wanted to tell the story he literally created".
What?
@@roble8943 George Lucas isn't a writer, he hates writing, and he always wanted someone else to write the story of Star Wars while he focused on how the camera works.
He wanted to tell the story he wanted...and not every idea to drop out of his mouth was gold. See what Han Solo was originally going to be.
But he mostly DID tell his own story...and his wife saved it in the editorial process.
But it was mostly his story with his themes and his ideas.
He did not rewrite a sequel to Casablanca...because he would need to be true to the characters. That is the duty of following up in someone else's sandbox.
Sounds like trying to write a history piece without finding out its history.
Like a Prequel story.
More like writing "Jesus Christ Superstar: A Zodiak killer Biopic"
Why bother connecting these stories at all if you aren't actively "connecting" the stories at all?
Big frigging deal he said that about Big Moments. He had a chance to do the 'Big Moment' thing in Dial of Destiny... and...he...failed! We were supposed to fall in love with Fleabag and we didn't.
So this is like me saying 'I need to be charming to have a successful relationship' and being entirely incapable for doing such a thing.
This is him setting the bar SOFA KING low. "You can't judge me!'
Well, buddy, yeah I can. I wonder how many shiny spectacles KK offered him to work for her again?
James Mangold doesn't want to be handcuffed by the lore from Star Wars but wants to go back to the very beginning to possibly rewrite the Star Wars lore. It's the same thing that happened with The Acolyte. It does not follow the lore of Star Wars and tries deviate from plot lines that were established in Episode 1 so they can create their own rules.
Fear not filmmakers, if you get in with Disney you can tarnish a major franchise, lose $150 million dollars on one movie and still get a starwars project
Concerned because KK knows that “the origin” of the Jedi is just another opportunity to cement her legacy in Star Wars because unlike Andor and Skeleton Crew (and initially Mando) the ORIGIN DOES matter to the very nature of Star Wars. She will sink her claws in deep.
Just GTFO right now…for real.
I guarantee this will now be thrown in his and Disneys face when it fails to attract the core Star Wars audience and audiences in general.
I better not see a complaint if they use forced imbued swords and not the lightsabers we see in the franchise for example.
Nawsar yawsar!!!
well that just means I am no longer interested in this movie, because if you can't make an engaging movie with established lore then you aren't interested in making a story set in that setting seriously.
Don't belive Mangold is the right guy for this.
What a waste of potential, money and efforts, they just don't learn, is this going to be DOA?!
Mangold needs to work in projects he believes he can add something (like he did with Logan), be creative not guided by his greed or destroying what was created, if those were his words, his intentions aren't to rebuild
Clearly the sky was never a Star Wars role playing fanfiction writer. Man those were some good times in college! There is some epic Star Wars fanfic out there, and us crazy amateur writers love the lore. It makes me so sad that these people just want to tell their own story and use Star Wars as a selfish way of getting what they want because they know they can't stand on their own. Like the acolyte
6:31 I can't say dial of destiny moved me in any way. I don't want more of that franchise. Also, that's surprisingly close to what the last jedi director thinks of his work.
Doesn't bode well.
He will not be shackled by Star Wars lore in any time period, Disney/Lucasfilm has long proven to not care about lore, either old Star Wars or their own. Although he will be shackled by Kennedy and other higher ups. Its pretty much the same reason why they have so many projects announced but never developed, cause they try to shackle their creatives for what ever lame vision Kennedy and others have.
as a DM and role player I have written 100s of stories set in many worlds that were not mine the lore is there to give you building blocks... if you don't want to use the lore then go write your own shit set in your own world its not hard
I am SO uncomfortable worrying that he might mess up Jedi and Force mythology and lore. I only trust Lucas and Filoni with a bedrock story like this.
Filoni is no Lucas. He's just some guy who had next to little creative effort and his colossal indulgence to canines all the time.
Filoni's a clown and a fraud.
Kotr era content is right there
writing in someone's universe is 100% easier than making up their own universe.
the force can do this and this. thats your magic system.
make up characters that can exist inside that should be easy!!
SNEED.
I don't think anyone's asking for a film/series to be so accurate to the lore that they get minute details right from 20 year old books or anything, but at the same time, when there are only 3 films set in the old republic time period, and you want to add literally ONE high council member to the plot of your show. YES, I expect you to crack open a fucking visual dictionary at the VERY least and figure out he's way too young to appear, or at least watch his MAYBE 7 minutes of screentime (max) in the prequel trilogy and maybe be familiar with probably his second most famous line after "what about the attack on the wookies". It's literally the second most notable thing about Mundi in the prequels and basically his only line in episode 1.
Mangold was suppose to direct a Boba Fett movie if I recall. Maybe it’s the reason why it was cancelled? Cause of the weight of the lore? Could be a good thing if he felt not comfortable then and choose a project without any connections with the past movies. Let’s wait.
@@lukemars8566 No. It was canceled because Solo flopped.
Oh yes you’re right, I forgot about that. And they turned the project into the TV show.
I mean, how is that different from Dave Filoni retconning anything and everything from books and novels if he wants to do something he thinks is cool with Ahsoka RIGHT NOW?
Continuity is dead; it's just a question of WHOSE continuity you have to acknowledge. And as LFL eventually reshuffles personnel, today's sacred pillars will be tomorrow's sand trod underfoot.
The lore argument never made any sense to me. A crime drama set in our own modern time is basically constrained by the lore of our universe, an author doesn't need to change how guns work, or how car / train /plane travel works etc..., In order to create a new unique and good story.
Iisn't this what Bioware did for KOTOR? Ie he just means he will have a lot more freedom to tell a story without getting caught in the nitty gritty, but still has EU stuff to fall back on for inspiration. Also, I really doubt he is allowed to jump forward!! beyond what the sequals have set up.
Hey Thor and Naboo! Sorry Naboo, but Thor has a point and can die on his hill with extreme prejudice. Haha. James Mangold’s ignorance about not wanting to adhere to the sandbox of the lore is exactly why Dial of Destiny failed as miserably as it did. Dawn of the Jedi has already been done in the EU. And substance AND context matters. Not wanting to abide by what makes Star Wars, Star Wars is why Lucasfilm is in the utter mess it’s in, in the first place. Not to mention going back 25K years to the Jedi origin is completely unnecessary and can be done in a montage of an Old Republic movie. Which would please the fanbase a lot better. And be a lot more profitable to Lucasfilm and Disney’s bottom line. All and all, this movie is a waste of time and a ploy to prolong Kennedy in her eventual retirement, which is way way past due. Thank you for letting me rant.
@@terrythompson1873 Here’s some points. One, Dial of Destiny failed because the budget was too high and Ford was an 80 year old man trying to be a superhero. I do think though it was an overhated movie though. Second, that comic you mentioned wasn’t even praised when the EU was “Canon”. Third, why would they do an Old Republic anything when one screwup and it would literally kill the franchise for good? Fourth, 25K years in the past can allow some wiggle room in creating a new era and do some different things like not having lightsabers but Force imbued swords for example. I say you’re overreacting a bit here.
@ get back at me when you know Dawn of the Jedi was more than just a comic book. Having said that. I’m not in the business of placating Kathleen Kennedy and solely placing blame on Mangold when Lucasfilm and its mandate was to deconstruct everything in their wheelhouse cinematically. The Dawn era is again, completely unnecessary and can be folded easily into the Old Republic era. Where stories are already established and fans would clamber to see those instead of a Dawn of the Jedi movie. The Qel-Droma brothers. Nomi Sunrider. Exar Kun. Vima Sunrider. The Krath Sith sect. A small example of many. Why the EU is a stronger narrative than Kathleen Kennedy and her axe grinding philosophy.
I like Dawn of the Jedi.
Sounds to me like he shouldn't be doing Star Wars then... That said, as you point out, as long as you're not telling a story specifically about known main characters it's a pretty big Galaxy out there!
My problem with Disney doing Dawn of the Jedi is they'll most likely just ruin it all in their image thus affecting everything to come after. I'd rather they just start over after the Sequel Trilogy and else everything else alone at this point.
They could also do something post ROTJ loosely connected to Mandoverse and not affect canon.
IMO anyone who reject canon are people who cannot stand rule or are plain lazy and don't want to think of ways to tell a story that adds to the lore, they want to be the new lore. And my response to that is, if you want to be unchained do Indie movies or stuff that's not attached to decades of lore.
To me it seems like he does want to make a Star Wars movie but since there's a crap ton of comics and books and expanded universe stuff, it would be difficult to not accidently contradict any of that lore, so he just wants to make something that takes place in a time period where there's little risk of ruining canon.
Lucasfilm solved that problem by throwing it all away eleven years ago. And anyway, the EU covered this time period.
@saberiandream316 I meant the canon expanded universe. I'm guessing nowadays the extra stuff isn't called "the expanded universe."
Emotional impact does not make a movie or tv show good. Having a well structured plot, with compelling characters can be both intellectually satisfying and emotionally hard hitting.
When you sacrifice one for the other, you are cheapening the product.
Not trying to throw shade or anything, just heard that line from
Naboo and thought “that’s not true… if it was then Ashoka would be considered a masterpiece…when it’s literal garbage…”
Here we go again. Want to know why star wars is so F’d up, no one watches their crap, and the majority can’t stand lucasfilm? Because they bring in a-holes like mangold who don’t respect the lore or the franchise itself and want to do their own thing. This will be a dumpster fire on many levels.
And yet Filoni does that, but there's still people that want to give it all to him and think he'll turn things around.
Sight... If you don't like Star Wars, then just don't get involved making Star Wars. I'm so sick of this.
What could go wrong with this kind of mindset I wonder ?
But the EU Dawn of the Jedi was a hot mess of garbage.
Lore has been broken many times
Even if you make a movie about an era way, way back in time, it must fit with what have been done after, otherwise, nothing makes sense. I suppose 25k years give you a little more latitude, but still we can't change all the rules. 🤔
@@Age_of_Apocalypse An example could be where lightsabers aren’t invented at that time.
I want to make a biblical epic............but does it have to be all God this, Jesus that?
@@LembeckIsStaying You wouldn’t have to include Jesus in it. Bible stories like the Ark are mythologies.
A true creative does better with more constraints.
I really don’t want this project to happen…
That's great. Don't call it dawn of the jedi then.
Then create a new ip
I wish him the best but after he made Indy 5, I don't believe he can make SW. The only feeling I have after the latest Indiana is being annoyed and that it was a spectatle over substance.
Then maybe he shouldn't be making a Star Wars movie!!! WTF is even the point if he wants to rewrite everything?? Does that mean he doesn't even care about SW?
Lucas did and he got flack from fans over it.
That's Disney Star Wars for ya, which is rewriting the lore to satisfy the petty egos of those at the top.
He can say whatever dumb nonsense he wants, I doubt they'll actually make this movie.
@@CurlCascade It likely will happen.
Then maybe don’t make a movie in an established universe. 😒
Well, creating the very first Jedi does give someone some leeway