DmC Retrospective: Reboot Dissonance (Part 2/2)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2018
- Let's take a close look at the end product of Capcom's decision to reboot the Devil May Cry series, and how it was almost doomed to fail the way it did.
Fox's Twitter: / superfoxcade
Fox's Patreon: / foxcade - เกม
TIME STAMPS for *"DmC Retrospective: Reboot Dissonance (Part 2/2)":*
@00:00:26 - Mission 2: Relationship Troubles;
@00:12:50 - Mission 3: A New Dante;
@00:24:38 - Mission 4: Stuck in Limbo;
@00:41:32 - Mission 5: A Devil May Cry;
@01:03:40 - Mission 6: A Definitive Ending.
Not all heroes wear cape.
Thanks.
@@danieladamczyk4024 NO CAPES
Could you do timestamps for music? I think some songs are from HM2, but am not sure.
You're a badass
Shakespeare literally wrote the line: "Villain! I have done thy mother!"
Let's not make any assumptions about what he would or wouldn't have written.
@@distantsea DmC Dante: Yeah but I got a bigger Dick.
I'm pretty sure he's actually written "I have a bigger dick" in something, possibly through "I bite my thumb" dudes? It seems like a thing they'd be made to say.
What size does thine manhood manifest with regard to mine own
You are a saucy boy!
What, you egg?
[He stabs him]
I feel like people forget that Shakespeare was a comedy writer
*wig scene*
''not in a million years...''
...You're right, only 5 actually
and you could just wear the classic dante outfit
A Sequel to DmC?
not in a centillion years.
Sick burn!
@@BlueApple1987 I actually hope there would be a dmc dmc sequal just so you could be wrong
@@potionthekhat8273 the Dante fatsuit?
...so, are we just skipping over the part where Ninja Theory literally compared the old Dante to a "gay cowboy" through a Brokeback Mountain picture and the new one to Tyler Durden from Fight Club?
Robbie Stanton are you inferring there is something wrong with gay cowboys?
mooglemania I think he's saying the connection is dubious at best.
18 SMOKING SEXY STYLE DANTES IN THE SHOWERS
Take a look at the Michael Jackson from DMC5. Dante IS a gay cowboy, and fucking rocks it.
That just goes to show that he totally missed the point of fight club. DmC dante just took himself way too seriously lmao.
Say what you will about "cool back then isn't cool now", but Ninja Theory actually thought fedoras were cool...in 2012.
Capcom thinks emo hair is still cool
@@dannymotionless3417 And everyone agrees.
The internet makes me wonder if I was lied to in Highschool when a Fedora was my main fashion accessory since Freshman year, cause in no one picked on me for it and it got me a fair amount of compliments and rep by my last two years of School.
@@leoncoben6983 You wore Fedora in Highschool? Jesus
You mean Trilbies, right? Because that's the most horrible trilby I've ever seen.
Poor Force Edge, everyone slips up and calls you Rebellion ;-;
#ForceEdgeCorrection
#NotAllEdges
#Force2BReckonedWith
#DontForgetAboutAlastor2
#NotMyForceEdge
I reckon if Dante had said.. hmm not bad.. it would have gone down better
If you're talking about the wig scene, he could have said "not in this life."
För sure
"Heh, not this time"
Anything besides that line. With timing, the build up to it all made it sooooo poorly received.
He could've also said "looks familiar" or "maybe in another lifetime"
The idea of Vergil being a masked Dream Runner would've not only fixed his character as a out-of-nowhere villian, but just would've been fucking awesome in general. Nice idea Foxcade.
Would’ve been a nice callback to Nelo Angelo too.
Devil may cry 5 vergil is cooler tho
@@kaelell4697 absolutely agree boss
@@kaelell4697 3,000,000,000 times cooler
The thing is imho that it's not out of nowhere as he has always been the vilian in the other games and clearly was all the time using Dante to do things he could have done himself. He states several times that he hides his power so that Mundus will think there is only one Son of Sparda. He doesn't need rescue, he needs his pawn and just stalls for the pawn to arrive.
So, at least in this regard it really doesn't feel like it comes out of nowhere, as we seem Sacrificing everyone in his base, just to keep his secret. Including Kat, meanwhile we see how far Kat's loyalty goes in that same mission. And she was helping or trying to help Dante a lot before too. So she was doing things. A lot more visible than the shit Nico did.
"Dante is just a Bugs Bunny in a wold of Daffy Ducks." YES, EXACTLY, YES! That right there is why we love him, and we're so happy to have him back! Yes!
It makes him sound like a R rated Shounen Protagonist.
Theme of the video: I see where you’re coming from and what you’re trying to do but you still didn’t do it right
10/10 comment, nail it
Savion Smith love it
Yeah. But the other problem is that what they are trying to do was more or less done in DMC3(narratively), Vergil and Dante were more like brothers in that game as well.
Wut
Savion Smith ???
Ninja Theory: DMC 5? Not in a million years...
Hideaki Itsuno: Hold my devil trigger
Dante Son Of Sparda no i copied the wrong name. Thanks!
Dante Son Of Sparda what? Kamiya is mad about dmc 5 or DmC:dmc????????
stephen the dude He gets mad when you mention anything DMC to him except DMC1 since that's the only one he worked on.
I always felt like that moment in the game got taken way too seriously - as a dis to Classic Dante that it was not - as his hair goes white at the end of the game, and if they made a sequel, he would have probably looked closer to his classic look - or more like - DMC 5 Nero
It's pull my Devil Trigger
"If Dante, Dressed as he was, walked into a bar outside of Tokyo, he'd get laughed out."
What on god's green earth does that have to do with anything? I'm sure if a man dressed up as Robocop and walked into a school they'd send the military, but that has nothing to do with the Merits of the movie or the people who like the movie. Does the man not realize he's making a fictional game? I'm sure if Dante dressed as he did in the reboot he'd get laughed out too. He seems to think he's some authority in style yet supposedly Capcom wants them to reach a wider audience.
It's funny they said that because if they'd actually been to a bar outside of tokyo, they would know that no one would laugh. They'd pretty much either be silent, or they'd be impressed and ask to take pictures.😂
You're taking him out of context though. He was specifically talking about Dante "getting lauged out of a bar anywhere outside tokyo" because the original designer based his ideas of cool off of his own relative culture and not Western views of cool. He was specifically using that antecdote to demonstrate his point; "coolness" as it were is different across culture and inherently subjective. In relation to the entire essay, he was using this moment to highlight why there may be so many differentiating views on the new Dante. You're supposed to listen to the entire argument and the overarching points he's trying to make. You're not supposed to respond to individual sentences, and then use them to project an argument he never made or even implied.
@@serioussaitama4071 It still is a stupid thing to say, even in context, as while it is true that Tameem was talking about different cultural tastes (which Foxcade covered), it doesn't really change the fact that it's an inane comment. Even given different cultural tastes, what makes one cool is subjective and thus him saying "Dante isn't really cool anymore" is what really pissed people off, not the bar comment itself. Especially if one were to remember that Ninja Theory originally wanted to design Dante so that he stayed closer to his original look and only really went in the direction they did because Capcom insisted on it. So his comments come off as idiotic and disingenuous even knowing not just the context of the conversation being had, but the context of the real reason why Dante even looks like he does.
NemesisSP i think you’re all a little wrong. the point he tried to make, in a very shitty way i agree, was that they tried to make a contemporary and realistically “cool” Dante. if you work in the fashion scene, visual mediums, and music, then you’ll realize that the new Dante’s aesthetic is very fashionable, he looks like a fashion model and thats the point. i study design and art, i work in a lot of mediums from fashion to music and im around it every day; so trust me when i say he is appealing from a very artistically educated perspective. but i acknowledge that he’s not not from a purely practical and genuine fanatical one.
he’s making a point about the labor they put into researching whats attractive and “in” in western aesthetics. that being grunge skinny “boyfriend” type dudes. tune into fashion week and look at the catwalk, they’re always in.
see: robert pattison from twilight. a grungy boyfriend who grew up and to this day is acknowledged in the fashion and modeling industry for his fashion sense.
i’m just gonna go ahead and say it because everyone is in denial. anime “cool” is not real life cool. old dante is cool like naruto and goku are cool. not like brad pitt, robert pattison, and leo are. they tried to change dante from a naruto to a robert pattison type, thats the point the guy TRIED to make.
@@ether9163 I too am an artist and I too study various different design elements and I can tell you that what people are upset at, as I was saying, isn't the design itself, although they do not like it. However, from my own perspective on what they were going for with the design, I agree with Foxcade that the design they went for just doesn't work because it's trying too hard to be something that the director thinks is a kind of underground cool and thus falls flat because of that.
However, going to what you are trying to say, you are yourself missing the full picture. What people are upset over with this comment is just how shitty Tameem is towards other subjective levels of "cool" that don't conform to what he thinks is cool. Or at least, that's what it seems like when looked at the full context. Namely that he was basically insulting the core audience of the game by saying that Dante is not cool, even though Dante is one of the most popular action game heroes. People don't like it when you insult them and then try and make them buy your game, which is what Tameem did.
And there is also the problem that you seem to have not gotten, even though you sort of touched on the matter. Dante was cool as he was, he didn't need to be reinvented into a modern action hero. There are loads of action heroes like that but there aren't many like Dante, which was why he was cool, he was his own character, he wasn't overly serious or flippant, he knew when to stop clowning around and he had depth to him that a lot of action heroes don't. And the failure of DmC: Devil May Cry and the success of DMC5 prove that, where they successfully translated the goofy, anime Dante into a photorealistic world and gave him more believable character designs and movements. Reboot!Dante is just another example of attempting to be something you're not and that's why DmC never found its audience.
To anyone who wants to be a creator:
NEVER INSULT YOUR AUDIENCE! it never turns out well. All you do is alienate your fans faster than you bring in new ones. This logic killed the comic book industry and sabotaged what is at best/worst a mediocre beginner level spectacle fighter.
All they had to do was stay calm and say this is a reimagining and not a replacement of the original series.
Especially in a case like this where you know people love the original charachter and were always going to be upset about the change.
The mature thing to do would’ve been to show fans respect and to at least ask to give this new version a fair shot
At the time of this reboot’s release the only game I had played was 4 so I was’nt as attached as other people. I remember at first thinking it was good but thinking about it I’ve seen more and more problems with it.
When it comes to being accessible to new fans Nero fits the bill much better than New Dante. A newet fan won’t feel intimidated to play him and older fans will quickly learn how to get complexity out of him. Also Nero’s story provides new players every chance to understand the basic history of the series and may even motivate them to play 1 and 3.
Robert Fullchim If your audience is being assholes to you(calling you names, sending you death threats, harassing you)then yeah, insult those people. But don’t insult the people you have legit criticisms and only want what’s best for the game they love.
It's pretty much why the sonic movie is doing well and why ghost busters 2016 and birds of prey flopped hard
@JC Gregory The thing is that Tameem went out of his way to attack any nay sayers from the get go, and he started this "asshole brigade" . You guys keep making it sound like most fans were unreasonable, when the franchise we loved was going bye bye for some shitty replacement, and for no fault by us. Hell it was literally Capcom being Crapcom, and we were losing out. Hey you know what sounds good to do in that moment? No, not make your complaints heard, but rather accept an inferior product, and let idiots rewrite history (sarcasm by the way). The fact is that almost all criticism was legit, but butt hurt idiots tried to claim that most of us had never played the game, which was actually false. A lot of hardcore fans bought it to give it a chance, which it didn't deserve to begin with, and it doesn't have a good reason to exist. I bought it for $15, and never finished it fully. It wasn't worth losing (possibly, and at the time looked like a probably) this franchise we loved. Look up what Tameem did, and you will stop feeling sorry for NT at all. He was a straight up ass. Don't make it sound like the DMC fans were being unreasonable in the slightest, as Anita Sarkeesian used the whole death/bomb threats bullshit. It's the internet, what do you expect. No, the game was mediocre at best, and deserved the crap it got. Why would you replace a lambo for a toyota corolla, and for the same price?
@ImmaLittlePip Sonic was surprisingly fun, and really earned the fans by changing the design. I really enjoyed it. Still haven't seen ghostbusters 2016, and don't care if I never do.
"Not in a million years" Then includes several dlc costumes of the original characters
I feel that line was more foreshadowing for the end
@@bigpenny8223 It can be, and I do consider it irony towards the endgame.
Proxy Sage well the colour change is to symbolise him understanding his role and who he is as a person I’d say to “find his humanity” but he has no human side so I’m gonna say he becomes empathetic to humans
I think they were foreshadowing to a sequel that nobody wanted
@@alucardo2961 actually if they continue the Horrible mess known as DmC(Why did you named it like this CapCom) from the ending of the 1st one. It wouldn't be that bad as the Dante kinda matures a little bit in the end and since they know now that Dante smoking and swearing like it's the only few words he know doesn't make him "COOL" but makes him ANNOYING as ALL HELL. And he gets his white hair with some style and characteristics from the OG DMC 1 Dante (Mr. Most serious Dante in the whole Series who "Has" Powers which can be compared to current Dante and is still serious "somehow" like he's from a different dimension or something) so he and the whole GAME may be bearable with setting some great HYPE or Hopes for a third installment (cause if there is going to be a DmC 2 then there WILL be a DmC 3).
"Dante is essentially Bugs Bunny in a world of Daffy Duck's" I will remember this quote for a very long time.
Edit:Holy shit 409 likes thank you all very much.
Bugs
Roy Mustang Me too.
For me it depends on the point of view and context you want to use
Did anyone picture dante face on bugs bunny ;)
Dante: Ehhh What’s up doc.
Demon: I’m hunting human right now.
Dantes: Oooh? Well that’s not how you do it.
Demon: It’s not?
Dante: No, you do it like this. **Open fire with Ebony and Ivory**
This fits in really well with a theory I have about a lot of cult classic Japanese games. The DMC games in particular. A lot of these games, despite being very Japanese, are often conceived as being aimed towards a Western audience. They're designed in a way that the developers think will be cool and appealing to Westerners. Yet they have this level of disconnect, since they're not actually from that culture. So you end up getting this strange view of "Western cool" through a Japanese lens. Something that's very unique and different to anything that a Western dev would actually make towards the same goal, or a Japanese dev would make aiming towards their own culture. Game companies realise this, and then make a decision which is where I think has been their biggest mistake. They judge this odd mix of different cultures as a failure. They weren't trying to create that; they wanted to create something that Westerners genuinely think is cool and familiar. They ignore that what people love about these games is that odd character that only comes out from that mix of ideas. So when they make tweaks to the formula of games like this, they're doing so to try to "fix" what they think was wrong.
Absolutely agreeing to this
Yeah like how the fuck are you gonna tell the west what appeals to the west? Shit made zero sense and it pisses me off that eastern video game devs think they got us all figured out.
I remember for a good chunk of the late 90s/early 00s (when anime and Japanese games rose in prominence), big-brained businessmen wanted to mainstream these hot new Japanese IPs, but also tried VERY hard to bury their Japanese roots and quirks and "Westernize" the shit out of the localizations, never seeming to realize that those Japanese roots and quirks were a core part of their appeal. Capcom and Keiji Inafune drank that same Kool-Aid and damn near destroyed the company, while DmC was a child of that mentality and possibly one of the catalysts of that its demise. Thank god that's (mostly) over now.
Your comment reminds me of why Kung Fu Panda was so popular in China. It didn't accurately reflect Chinese culture, it was made from the lens of Americans who loved Chinese Kung Fu Movies. Everything about China is presented as "cool" and beloved -- though completely inaccurate. And that charm got across to Chinese audiences. Same thing happens with games like DMC trying to use Western aesthetics in a cool way from a Japanese lens. It's silly and inaccurate, but earnest and charming
@@Joyride37 Yeah, this 100%.
I tend to consider DmC as a cool spin off which had good ideas and was overall enjoyable.
I think the main reason it got so much hate was we were afraid the series would continue that trend and we would never see OG Dante again.
Now that 5 is out and turned out so well, we can see it more unbiasedly and I gotta admit that if you look at it as some playable fanfic, it is a damn good playable fanfic.
I agree with you as long as we're talkin the Definitive Edition of the game, cuz OG? Some of those issues are mile wide.
@@Ender41948 Yeah, definitely.
DmC Devil May Cry tbh is just straight up fun
Exactly, I came back to this game after 5 and I gotta say it’s really not that bad
@@Ender41948 I cant play the DE since Im on PC but you are right about its issues being mile wide. I still think it's somewhat enjoyable tho
That interview with Tameem about Devil May Cry not being cool anymore 10 years after being made really and how he'd be laughed out of any bar he walked into really highlights just how misguided their assumptions about what made it cool or hip in the first place.
Sit back and consider what Devil May Cry is like for a second: the main character is a red trench coat wearing gunslinger who hunts demons
The soundtrack sounds like Fear Factory and Rob Zombie amongst a dozen other bands you'd have seen at Ozzfest
The environments are full-on gothic and inhabited by grotesque monstrosities that you'd normally see in a classic slasher flick
Half the stuff that happens wouldn't exist or wouldn't be near as popularized without The Matrix or Equilibrium
The tone and atmosphere could have been pulled straight from Blade, Hellboy or Spawn
Even if you discount Japan being behind on that direction American culture was taking in the 90's, Trigun was still using that motif all the way back in 1995.
These are literally tropes that Reaper in OW was meant to satirize.
Really, Devil May Cry's whole mood and style were outdated the day it came out. _That's_ what made it awesome because the people of-age to be playing such a game in 2001 would have grown up with this music, this fashion, this atmosphere, and these moods, these tones and these styles all throughout the late 80's and 90's.
Dante doesn't obey trends, he'd rather do something so monumentally, undeniably awesome that you were essentially obeying him and what he thinks is cool.
The developers were playing all these grimdark tropes so unapologetically and so tongue-in-cheek that it rolled right back around to being badass again. If anything, that give-no-shits devil-may-care attitude is a hell of a lot closer to punk rock than some dumb, edgy kid doing and saying nonsense other dumb, edgy kids would think is cool with a completely straight face.
Devil May Cry has never needed an attitude adjustment because Kamiya's post-80's/90's ideal of cool only holds up even stronger after we started embracing these hipster post-modernist views in the 00's and new 10's that criticize the entire pursuit of coolness in the first place. No matter what trend comes in and out of style or how many directions culture shifts, we'll always have a need for escapist fantasy badasses like Dante. That's what makes a timeless character and a great franchise.
WickedKnightAlbel 💯💯💯
FUCKING FACTS!!!!!
Apparently ninja theory didnt even get this basic idea 🤦🏾♂️
on point!
Very well said and anyway, I guarantee that if Dante walked into an Industrial dance or Gothic nightclub, he'd be welcomed with open arms LOL
I think removing the tortured background actually worked against the character development. For example, house had a rough background and medical problems that put him in pain this allows the audience to somewhat sympathize with him. DmC showed nothing to indicate why he is an ass 3/4 of the game, so the majority of us (rightfully so) viewed him as a spoiled brat who is just a jerk. The appearance doesn't bother me so much as his "trying way too hard to be a hard ass" attitude.
i remember playing Mission 18 and dante just said "fuck off" after a cutscene -- couldn't help but roll my eyes with a huge sigh. Crude for the sake of crude doesn't come off as cool, ever
If DmC Dante had been in some form of facility for years, being tortured and experimented on, developing a smoking habit and looking like a junkie, it would've at least set him appart from the original. Hell, when the teaser dropped I thought the story was that this new black haired guy THOUGHT he was Dante, and we would see him slowly figure out that he wasn't, he's just some half-demon thing.
Yeah, if they showed why Dante was an unlikeable douchebag, he would've been more digestible. Yeah losing your parent sucks but she was killed by a demon, not by a human so I mean what gives? Like what, was he getting picked on as a kid? Was he rejected by a foster family? Hell, was he cheated on in a relaitonship and the person rubbed his face in it? You know... Just SOMETHING. Because as it stood, he was just not likeable and the fact that his turn to save humanity felt forced (seriously, all for some girl whom he barely knew...), it just wasn't good.
Sounds like you didn't pay attention period if you think reboot Dante didn't go through torture? Especially Vergil's comic that expands on that...
@@decadentgamer3108 I guess Vergil going out to find more power and destroy the world because his mommy didn't save him like Dante is just so silly right. I mean maybe he shouldn't have such extreme reactions so dumb shit like 'i know losing your parents kinda sucks..' Lol. I mean cmon guys, both sets of characters lost their parents but the reboots aren't allowed to react or dislike whats going on???? Only the Originals are allowed to do dumb shit in retaliation to their circumstances?
As far as the story went, I feel that the most unforgivable thing was making Dante Half-Demon and Half-Angel. Taking the human parts away from them made them feel less like one of us and more like someone who saw normal humans as beneath him and that only his love interest mattered...
What’s even more annoying is that He’s half Angel but doesn’t get a Angel Trigger? Bruh. Missed opportunity in a sequel I guess
"YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE GONNA ROB A JEWELRY STORE, CATWOMAN"
LMFAO who was that!? He's hilarious.
EventStatus / MainEventTV
@bruh hub the dialogue is so dumb that it's funny...u gotta admit that
Fun video. I didn't hate DmC, but I still preferred Japanese over the top action of Devil May Cry. But I love these discussions of analyzing failed projects, and I can tell you were trying to be unbiased about it. Very well done. Thank you.
After watching through the whole thing (only mentioning this because I stopped to post a comment before resuming), I have to say I agree. You can tell he was was trying to be unbiased, and while I don't think he was completely unbiased, there was enough objectiveness to his analysis for it to be a great discussion and breakdown for the game. I also don't hate DmC, but still prefer the original games. The funny thing is for a long while I did go with the masses on hating it but a year ago I figured "eh, what the hell let's see how it compares" and bought it. Over all I'd give it at least a solid 6.5/10 probably even a 7/10. While it's not enough to match my favorite of the Devil May Cry games, it is enough to put it on the same level as my two least favorite.
@@bradwine228 I feel like they could have just changed the main character from Dante to Nero and the game would have been in fine because Dante has this joking Goofy but still kind of cool attitude and persona whereas Nero is more of a arrogant a bit angsty teen vibes
I will be honest i liked dante's clothing and the whole game except for the story and ninja theory's response to the fans
I bought the first Devil May Cry for ps1 when it release and I loved it. Played that game, finished it - i dont even want to speculate how many times.
And I didnt care in the slightest about the changes. I Kinda wondered why it didnt bother me and then i realised that i dont care for japanese char design. So the new Dante resonated better with me overall i think, so i guess i could adopt the new ideas without any friction
@@church8298 the changes didn't matter to me as well what this reboot tried was to simplify the gameplay and make the story a bit realistic which was really bad the gameplay was fun and easy compared to the previous titles but the level design is the best in the series
The thing that I personally hated about the reboot was how mean spirited it was. Our protagonist makes fun of the villain for screaming in horror when his child is killed. That's a misguided attempt at being edgy and it sucks.
It should also be noted that DMC was a series about how human heart and spirit were more powerful than any demon. In the reboot, the main character isn't even human anymore. Humans are cynically treated as cattle. If that doesn't show that NT didn't get what the core of the series was, IDK what does.
Good video. Well worth the wait.
You pretty much summed up what I was going to say, especially the part of him not having a human side. Besides the minor nitpick of switching the brother's ages around ( OG Vergil is the elder brother not younger as some people try to say), the idea of them NOT having a human side felt very off.
It is kind of hard to be invested in a rebooted character's development when they change the backstory and remove the one aspect that gives them a connection to those they fight with and protect. I can understand if Capcom told NT to change the backstory (which would have been stupid on their part), but if that was NT's choice then they did not think it all the way through.
I think the game made it clear in context that Dante mocked Mundus for his kid's death specifically BECAUSE he needed to anger him beyond reason - he's absolutely horrified when Vergil kills the kid and mother in the first place. The problem is that earlier on they try WAY too hard to make him edgy-cool and have him argue with basically every villain in the same way.
Like you said, the missing human side rarely crops up and it's sad they didn't develop it further- there are SLIGHT shades of it in how Dante interacts with Kat later on (like when the SWAT team is breaking in), but by anchoring his backstory in him having NO human interactions and just being constantly on the run from demons they messed up. He starts off so damaged and so abrasive and only starts to care about the world when he regains his memory of his family- but his family ISN'T HUMAN, so it doesn't explain why he cares about people by the end. It was too clumsily done.
theSHELFables While I certainly agree. I dunno I guess I interpreted it as Dante being so used to violence that that's just his reaction to it. Like he's desensitised and occasionally laughs at it to cope. And while it doesn't make sense or could have been developed a lot better, I think having him start off without humanity is an interesting spin. Like he has to sort of learn how to have humanity and experiences its strength first hand. Like a realisation of how the soul is more powerful than demons. I mean yeah he's not human. So it probably doesn't work except as a confused outsider observing things type of cliche. So I don't know how one would implement in an organic and authentic way that's not well confusing.
INDEED, I couldn't agree more! DMC is known for showing that even demon has a heart of a human to shows compassion to whom he cared. Killing an unborn devil baby in the devil mother's womb is just flat CRUEL, and then make a fun of it in front of his father, even if they are demons, that's just not right. Even anti-hero has boundaries.
I didn't see at least once anyone shed a tear in DmC. Kinda makes me wonder do they really think that "Devil May Cry" means that the devils are crying because the hero beat them up? They even labeled the title with TWO "Devil May Cries", yet they still are clueless of the meaning behind it.
This Dante was multidimensional and flawed. The writing style for DmC was simply different than OG iterations, it was meant to be deeper. It missed the mark but not by much IMO. So what if he rubs Mundus' murdered child in his face. This Dante is a Demon / Angel hybrid who literally warps reality. It was stated that Nephilhim are more powerful than angels and demons. They do not even know the extent of their power. Who knows if they can even die, as they seem to skip between dimension like changing moods. I like the fact that this Dante was a huge asshole.
What I don't like is how he ends up liking humans. His whole life he spent being misplaced and absorbed in instant gratification just to get away from his issues. His mind is that of a human's. In fact, there seems to be no psychological difference between the three races, so, wtf. Kat rubbed off on him? The writing didn't sell that to me at all. He should have killed Mundus then felt empty because revenge was unfulfilling. Then power tripped like Vergil. Still fight Vergil because he wants to rule differently. Then have a an awkward situation where both brothers, potentially the most powerful entities in the universe, appear morally ambiguous. Having a "bigger heart" he should have told Vergil that fighting is pointless (after serving the beatdown) and suggested that they go find Sparda. Boom sequel.
Fixing Kat tho... lots of work.
“Dante is Bugs Bunny, in a world of Daffy Ducks.”
Wonderful.
49:30 Exact moment where I realized Sparda was no longer the demon who got a heart, stood up to Mundus', awoke to justice to protect HUMANS and even married a HUMAN.
Hoping DMC 5 has a scene where Nero gets his hair coloured black by smoke or oil or something, to throw a bit of shade back at Ninja Theory
Not in a million years.
Not in a million years
Conflict1914 YEEEES YEEEEEEEES
I want the Vergil Mobile to make a comeback.
Conflict1914 The mysterious V has black hair
I disagree with the God of War segment. God of War's Kratos had a ton of development. He wasn't just an angry, irrational god killer man, the guy lost his family, was forced to live with the reminder of it, held by the sisters of fate, tried to commit suicide numerous times before 3, left his daughter when he could have stayed with her, just to stop a villain, constantly lost people he cared about, suffered from guilt, depression, and committed acts that even he himself finds disgusting. By the end he's so disgusted by himself that he shoves the Blade of Olympus into his stomach and tries to kill himself. The reason why the new game works from a story standpoint is because this is the same Kratos we've seen before just older and given a second chance. Change means to become something different, maturity means that one has become older and become fully developed mentally or physically. People who say Kratos was a dull stupid character might want to play the older ones again and look behind the blood and gore.
He never said he was dull and stupid, though.
The one big change was he got more patient with things. That’s like the big change in Kratos’s personality
HBTB 2750 For a reinterpretation of Hercules/Heracles essentially, Kratos is not a bad one. Maybe people are just too used to the memes to see him as anything but bloodthirsty and shouty. I dunno.
HBTB 2750 Kratos has no development in any of the OG games he just yells and kills gow 4 is the only time I cared about his character Dante I can always root for no matter what but Kratos I genuinely wish if 4 never came out was burned and stabbed to death in Hattie's I hate him in the old games
marvel's greatest hero Then good. They did their job. He's a villain. Of course you were supposed to hate him.
"Staying relevant" is a self-defeating game. The best way to remain relevant is to create the trend and the best way to do so is create controversy. Tameem in other words, was an incapable, inept fool who shot himself in the foot with a backwards ideology. With Tameem, he became relevant the moment he created controversy by running his idiotic mouth.
you know how capcom felt that they couldn't reach the western audience thus they created a reboot & selected another company to go ham on it?
I honestly feel like it was on purpose. they didnt know what to write after DMC4 so they had a reboot done to buy them time to figure out what to write for DMC5 & amass a bigger following with the giant shitshow that would be DmC:DMC.
maybe I'm wrong but that's how I can see it.
but honestly by the time it came out in early January 2013, i was in 7th grade & I had hormones flowing because I was nearing 13 years old so of course I became a fan.
the shitshow that was & is DmC:DMC made me a fan of the overall series & even the anime.
because the video game community at the time had other larger titles like SR4 & GTA5 coming out that year.
capcom wanted to profit but didnt know how to. so what do they do within the gaming community for the 3 yrs building up to its release?
create a giant fuckimg explosion & let all hell rain loose.
not only are you getting the OG fans talking, you're getting other parts of the video game community curious & talking AND pulling in new fans from the western world.
then wait 5 yrs after teasing the fans & getting our attention & publish a new game with the OG Dante after capcom tested the waters of what the western world likes & appease all sides: new fans, old fans, western fans, & eastern fans alike.
or that's just what I see. 🤷🏽♀️
but I would like to see a second part of the reboot & see if Ninja Theory & Capcom cant redeem themselves.
times have changed & honestly that game was unique & beautiful all on it's own.
@@annapearl5969 I wouldn't call it beautiful by a long shot
@@tanyaharmon6739 bro I'm pretty sure I was high when I wrote that.
@@annapearl5969 I was not expecting that but ok
The problem with this game is it's name. If it were called something else with a different story, then it would have been rated very high since it has excellent combat .
@Stellar Gnoma hopefully they learned from RE7 and are in their redemption arc
The real problem no one dares mention is the entitled fan base that judged it solely on a first glance and refused to give it a chance.
What the hell are you on about? Every person defending the game brings that up. I have a 2 minute highlight reel specifically of that in Part 1.
sogetsu60 that’s stupid
I know I'm late but they could've just called the game "Devil May Cry (2013)"
I don't have a problem with him thinking that old Dante isn't cool, I don't believe so but it's his opinion. What worried me about his statement is the "if he went into any bar he would be laughed out". Dude this is a video game, Half if not all of video game protaginists would be laughed out of bars but who cares, ITS A GAME !
lieutenant Joker the Guys In the Bar would be Fucked if they Laugh at Dante
Next Of course, if he was in the mood to.
Apparently what Dante would do if he walked into a bar is ask for a Strawberry Sundae.
So ya, I don't think he would give a shit if anyone laughed at him he does what he wants no matter how ridiculous it seems.
He's right though. I mean just take Dante from DMC4. He looks like he belongs in only one kind of bar and it has a lot of dark places.
It simply didn't fit with the vision they had in mind. If the game is supposed to be more real, then he couldn't look like some one from the village people.
Arthur Wild They certainly made Donte "More real" But his bar argument was really bad.
Actually you know what? I think originally, the Dreamrunner was supposed to be Vergil. If you look closely, the mask that Vergil wears while he's making those propaganda videos closely resembles the Dreamrunner's mask. How cool would that have been? You could have scenes where Dante comes back from a mission where he encountered the Dreamrunmer but Vergil somehow isn't back yet. Or parts where Vergil conveniently has to get away right before Dante is abiht to embark on a mission. Scenarios like this keep popping up and Dante notices something but shrugs it off, only to realise in the end, that he's been played.
like arkham in dmc 3 huh?
I wish I could like a comment more than once
and if they didn't do that, they could've also made the Dreamrunner enemy type be the equivalent of the Angelos from 1 and 4. Elite Mooks to Mini Boss enemies that bother Dante throughout the game, getting tougher and more competent as it goes on. Until finally getting to the named Dreamrunner "Drekavac" and it acting like Credo Angelo, and maybe given at least 1 or 2 new movesets or tricks in comparison to the previous dreamrunners
I totally agree with you. Had DmC been it's own game and not a DMC game it wouldn't have been as hated. But since they forced it people couldn't help comparing diet Dante and Vergil to Dante and Vergil Classic. And i won't say the combat is bad as i had some fun. But i prefer DMC3, 4, and now that it's out 5.
well 5 is flat out amazing lol
5 best in the series sorry 3 the combat is so satisfying the boss designs are awesome with so many call backs to previous games like king cerberus an amazing boss and weapon balrog being a fresh take on the standard and royal guards timing being less strict is . a nice touch the vergil bos fight while isn't as hard as dmc3 is still an amazing boss goliath such a fun intro and the urizen fights where so fun getting the secret ending is such a fun thing to find and the final urizen using a mix of other boss attacks vergils teleportation sumoned swords and hard hitting melee great fight the basic enemy design visually and in combat is great fury's while annoying are basically just a fun way to flex your nero table toppers or royal guard skill being so satisfying when you master nobody's being super challenging an difficult and the story is great amazing send off to dante don't get me started on how good he feels
Well five has the most fan pandering so no wonder it did so well. Hardcore dmc fans never gave it a chance because of Dante’s fucking hair and that’s God’s honest truth.
You mean they compared Donte and Virgin to Dante and Vergil😆
@@shinbakihanma2749 😒
I'd like to say that I am really annoyed that they made Dante and Vergil into Nephalem. It undercuts so much of Dante and Vergil's backstory. It removes so much of the beauty of a demon like Sparda learning to love a human and sacrificing himself for humans. It makes Dante's relationship with humanity less endearing. He doesn't have the struggle of being a human hunting demons but at the same time being called a demon by humans. And it removes the subtle hints that Angels and Demons are the same. And the worst part is they don't even do anything with it. What does making them a Nephalem add to the story? That they are the chosen ones and only ones who can defeat Mundus? We didn't need that of course we know Dante will defeat Mundus he is the villain, it just felt like an ego stroking moment to say, hey look at how powerful you are because you are, not because you earned it through suffering or any of that shit. And the infants of light and dark thing it was already done thrice before DmC, Bayonetta, Darksiders and fucking Diablo III.
BlueLightningSky I know this is like half a year late of a reply but you do know that Nephilim are half demon half human entities. So actually the originals were true nephilim while the new ones are a different take on them.
@@pandoraproductions3520 Actually, no. Nephilim are generally accepted to be half human half angel hybrids, whereas a half demon half human is called a Cambion. What Donte is portrayed to be doesn't even have a proper name, so I guess they just decided to call him a Nephilim, even though thats not what a Nephilim is. The original meaning of the word from the Bible makes them out to be something like demigods of other religions, like Hercules, and they are called the offspring of the "Sons of God" and human females, with the former generally being thought to mean angels
Sorry for being pedantic
Also there’s a line where he says “to see if you can still call yourself human” it’s like why even change it to nephilim if you’re not even going to adapt to it
Microsoft announced they bought Ninja Theory in the same conference they announced DMC5...priceless
The best slap in the face ever
Honestly the game isn't bad at all. Not the amazing shit people say it may be but hardly worthy of your bitch fits.
Ninja theory is doing good now senua was really good
Ninja Theory has one of the mostu unique styles to creating games just look st Hellblade goddamn that game is a piece of art.
@@hardcoreLazors It is!
Just... Not exactly DmC...
Wouldn't it be more logical if you had to use demon weapons against angels and angel weapons against demons?
And why doesn't Dante have an Angel Trigger?
@@2012sandokanthey are demons, no angels, now, why they are only damaged by angel weapons is a mistery
I was a part of a devil may cry community on livejournal back in the day, and during this game's development, I remember a lot of people in the community being outraged by the change in hair. I was surprised at first, but hoped that the game play would save it. Well the devs started pissing on the fan's concerns which made everything worse, and in the end it turned me off from trying the game. I don't care about this game anymore, but looking back on all of that it made me realize how important professional PR is. Don't shit on the fans of a series you are responsible for rebooting because it can cost you sales.
"AlL pUbLicItY iS gOoD pUbLiCiTy"
-Boomer Hollywood Man
That said, fans did not give the game a chance, they shit on it hard before seeing gameplay or playing it, and then got butthurt because NT shit back at them? They deserved it who cares. It could cost you sales I guess, but again their choice to make, and NT's DmC actually out sold dmc 1, 2, 3, and 4 unless you count all the multiple purchases from special editions that came out down the road. Even if you include those it still outsold them all except 4.
@@badams2190 This is the most brain dead thing I’ve ever read in my life. They are insulting a large majority of the people that would buy their game. Had they held their tongue and simply worked on the game, then a lot more people would have most likely played it and enjoyed it. Every time a publisher talks shit to their fans it always backfires.
Long coats were badass back then and they are still badass now.
While also playing pumped up kicks
@@typerez2627 Meanwhile, Fedoras are passe the year they became popular.
long coats need to be a trend again
@@jaymoneyyy110 Nah, coats are cool in general. To the point that I think western outlaws look even better with a simple brown duster.
@@typerez2627 ah it's past me
I never really saw OG Dante as "cool". More of a dork trying to act cool. But, that's what makes him so likable to me, and why he's my favorite video game character. He's just one big lovable cocky dork.
Exactly. If he was truly 'cool', he would have bagged Trish or Lady or BOTH a long time ago. However, in 4, it's seen that it's still just a profession relationship. They mock him pretty well.
And thats honestly why I like Dante so much, he’s a dork but he has so much fun with it.
Also obligatory “I see you everywhere” comment.
Wait a minute Dante is not a dork that’s retarded the man is cocky but definitely not a dork
Jamar Chronicles Reuben Langdon has actually stated in an interview once that he's able to play the character so we'll because Dante's as dorky as he is. Can't remember which interview that was though.
Dizzy Doom I don't think this got anything to do with Dante Being cool or Not
Ninja Theory: DmC is the essence of cool
Also Ninja Theory: Yeah lets give Vergil a fucking Fedora
Tbf in the game he does act like a guy who'd wear a Fedora (doesn't he wear a tophat though? Or a thrillby?) in 21st century
I think it's kinda Capcom's fault tbh.
At the time they were called CRAPcom and they were in very dark place. Like DmC reboot, RE series turn to 3rd person CoD, MvC and so on.
But they're coming back with RE engine. They listened to fans and made RE2 remake and DMC5.
I have faith in them.
dragon dogma to is in the pipeline too
From crapcom to capgods
They still push un-needed micro transactions. DMC 3 soundtrack not in game as unlockable, but ONLY 2.99 FOR THESE THREE AMAZING SONGS. Sadly I bought it. I love threes soundtrack, but hate myself for feeding that beast in gaming.
RE 4 was 3rd person and came out in 2005 dumb ass...your age is showing and DMC 5 fucking sucks, even this game is better than it.
@@unshackledmind7863 That's bullshit.
Good LORD! The Dreamrunner/Drekavac being secretly Vergil all along running a hidden agenda to weaken Dante while getting rid of Mundus is one of the greatest ideas I've ever heard about this DmC! It'll be from now on, my headcannon whenever I want to replay it!
I think Drekavac could have also been the Credo Angelo of DmC. A no holds barred 1 on 1 with an enemy that has more competency in comparison to the other dreamrunners, albeit with some more moves or tricks up its sleeve.
I like the super best friends version of dmc vigil of if I had more power I wouldn't have needed to 360 no scope that baby and I could have just killed moondis? Mundis? The bad man dude bro
I honestly would have had so much more respect for the game and Ninja Theory if, during the wig scene when Dante was looking in the mirror, said "Maybe next time" instead of "Not in a million years."
EachSoul definitely! Maybe if he was like “not bad” or “I’m getting flashbacks”
@GhostlyOutcast If they added some kind of reaction to the white hair of the DT of Donte when he saw it, I think the fans might have forgiven the "Not in a million years" jab
Jajajaja exactly! Could have been hilarious!! XD
Or just a simple chin stroke followed by “ehh, Not today.”
There’s plenty of ways to do it better.
Or you know, not get "triggered" about a monologue in a game reboot....
45:40 is where the real brain damage starts
As a woman myself that LOVES Lady, just like the TH-camr Sphere Hunter, this failed self insert comparing her and Trish to prostitutes really shows the mindset of these types of "men" and why their characters failed so hard in comparison
Too bad Itsuno himself turned both Trish and Lady as nothing more than fanservice material
@tiohyde3790 Because of showing some fictional skin? Because they had their moments even in the last DMC5 game ESPECIALLY the ending that hints their takin over
There's a reason even famous girl TH-camrs like Sphere hunter love them so much too
"Dante is a Bugs Bunny in a world of Daffy Ducks"
That's such a great way to describe the character.
I'm gonna start using that comparison from now on.
HE INSULTED LADY!!??
BLASPHEMY!!
2:10
I feel this statement right here sums up the single biggest problem during the development of DmC. They had it completely backwards.
You didn't do cool things because they felt cool. YOU felt cool DOING cool things.
DMC (and by extension Bayonetta) embraced a particular gameplay philosophy of enforcing a good player's ability not through score or upgrade materials alone, but by making YOU feel badass for being good at the game.
The better you played, the higher rankings you would get, and the more spectacular the resulting actions would play out. In a way they offered a bar higher than just beating the game by devaluing doing the absolute minimum and rewarding the player for pushing the envelop. This also extended itself into upgrades. The better you did, the more STYLISH the resulting the display, the closer you got to new moves, the better you could do, and the more STYLISH you could be.
This loop fed into itself and helped break the common pitfall that sucked in other action games like God of War at the time where upgrades to stats over arsenal created an illusion of feeling more powerful than you already were. The really key aspect of DMC is that you could SEE how powerful you were getting not just because of what you did, but unlike most games that offered a catalogue of collected items and/or a stats screen, you saw it proactively in the way you were playing. This is the thing that makes it the most distinct. And this also helped give newer players reasons to push the envelop to catch the better players as well. Because the other thing is it wasn't enough to get new tools. You had to use and abuse them in more and more creative ways to REALLY reach for that Holy Grail of SSS rank.
This combination of (relatively) low entry bar giving little satisfaction, using mental trickery to try and encourage the player to strive for more than the bare minimum, and reflecting that growth in approach to combat is the recipe that gives that distinct DMC flavor. And when I say difficulty I specifically refer to the 100% difficulty. Raising the minimum success bar to close the gap doesn't really achieve the same effect. In a way the several difficulty levels actually work AGAINST DmC because they all pay out the same rewards and, as a whole, diminish the drive to push beyond the bare minimum to pass.
Also I don't feel the wig scene really helped their case. I reiterate from several previous comments on several other videos: DmC is what got me to look at the DMC franchise in the first place, and _I_ felt insulted by that white wig bit. That's pretty bad.
yugijak 👏👏👏 Agree 100%
well that explains why i always suck at DMC games
Capcom deciding that classic DMC wasn't good enough, changing it, then going "fuck, guess that was wrong, let's go back" and deliver something amazing is accurate for them, they basically did something similar with Resident Evil. But honestly, I'm glad we got DMC5 now which is exactly what the series deserved. I kinda hope for more games in the series.
Public Service Announcement: NEVER SEND DEATH THREATS BECAUSE IT'S NOT OKAY.
The media spent the entire time making fun of the fans so of course this game wouldn't sell well that's like a waitress slapping you in the face and then expecting a tip
Adrale4gotten The media was just reporting the news.
The fanbase didn't really help the matter by making themselves look like whiny retards.
That’s because the gaming media isn’t very good. I mean have you read some of the bollocks IGN puts out? Total garbage.
chris passama Whiny retards buy the games so why make them mad?
DmC was one of the biggest things to drive a wedge between gaming media and gamers. A wedge that drove the split even wider after the game came out, making both fans and the media defenders of the game bitter. That and the rise of articles agreeing with Sarkeesian (in contrast to gaming media fighting along side gamers against guys like Thompson) marked the end of gaming media feeling like they spoke for hardcore gamers.
This is stupid logic - Dante is cool not because of what he wears, or what music he is listening. Dante is cool, because of his personality and charisma, and this things do not belong to particular time period. Eather you have it or don't. DmC's Dante don't.
Dmc dante doesn't got alot hes honestly kinda boring and bland, and his character development makes no sense
English 100
Just wanted to let you know this is one of the best analysis and breakdown of DmC I've seen from someone knowledgable of the series and a great video in general that I've gone back and rewatched a few times now.
The one thing I'll say about DmC is, I'll always wonder what the reception from the fanbase would of been like if DmC wasn't a reboot and was instead a standalone game, or just in the same universe but completely new, separate characters. Because I look at the critical response from mainstream video game review websites/magazines and they feel like they were reviewed from the perspective of a new game series, not in relation to the series it was based off. I personally would have way less negative feelings about the game if it wasn't a reboot.
I will disagree with the infamous "wig" scene though. I understand your hypothesis that it could of been a tongue-in-cheek self referential joke, but with Tameem's antagonistic attitude with the original fanbase and the feeling of spite it felt like Ninja Theory had towards the originals (even though Capcom dictated the dramatic tone and design shift, and Ninja Theory admitted they originally tried to make a more faithful adaptation, that news came after multiple previews and interviews of them bashing the old game's design, story, characters etc) I still think the intent of that scene was malicious towards the fanbase, or possibly was suppose to be an in-joke for new fans but that comes off insulting in the exactly same way.
That's nitpicking to be fair, besides that I think you did a great job looking at DmC objectively. I see way too many claims the game is either a masterpiece or a trash fire but I personally think your video sets the record straight on the game's quality and success (or more appropriately, lack of success) at adapting Devil May Cry.
😳😮 The idea at 1:02:00 About Vergil secretly being the Dream runner would have been BRILLIANT!!!
thank you, the whole lady part vs kat is all what i needed to hear.
i cant believe anyone would think that nothing character is better than lady just because shes not dressed so provocative (though lady's outfit in 3 is perfectly fine, you might have a case for argue in 4 though) is beyond insulting
Kat doesn't look any less trashy. Lady and Trish also express zero interest in the original Dante sexually and are antagonists. Trish betrays Dante and gets saved just because she looks like his mother in the end saving him and becoming a partner, Lady turns Dante down because she hates demons, in the end he gains her respect becoming a partner, weird that the 'girlfriend' character Kat needs to be saved. I'm not really a fan of the female designs in 4, but the personalities and capabilities are better than the reboots.
It's the stigma of superficiality. Unaware western devs were given reference pieces to go off of and one look at Trish, Lady, and their backstories and all they saw was Oedipus Complex for sexy lady and daddy issues for sexy lady.
It's the greater issue of people who take first impressions too personally. It makes them see the character as less because of how they look and they reject the subsequent actions and progress that the character makes. Because characters like Kat are so basic and safe in terms of appearance, they perceive their progress as more complex despite there being nothing there.
+Spaced92
You left out a very key detail that makes Lady's relationship/partnership with Dante special (Otherwise, spot on).
I.E. She actually cares for and admires him, because of the tears he shed for Vergil.
"I learned that there are humans out there like my father, and compassionate Devils."
Or something along those lines. It is a subtle nuance that tells a much larger story than it first presents.
Unfortunately, I don't know Kat enough to judge, but she seems shallow.
I was talking about DmC with my gf a few days back and I couldn't even remember Kat's name... and I finished the game twice.
bocodamondo I just look at the 2 design I would say four and improvement over 3 granted I do wish she was more geared up in that design
You can't shy away from your true objective. You're a hack n slash/character action channel now.
this sounds like one of those essays where i repeat the same thing with different wording till i hit 300 words
And about the hair scene lol I instantly laughed at it because I thought it was just an ironic poke at the old Dante. I was no where near upset about it lol
I just watched 95 minutes learning about the DMC reboot, and while I enjoyed the game. I enjoyed the perspective this brought. Thanks for making this video 👍
The worst part about dmc DMC is that there are so many situations with so much potential that's just wasted. Also the enemies that break your combos if you hit them with the incorrect weapon just isn't fun.
President of Whiteistan just learn how to play the game then....noob....
steven contreras I did, I beat the game on the second hardest difficulty. Doesn't make those enemies any less annoying.
The definitive edition fixed the colored enemies, now you can hit a blue enemy with all weapons but you can only break his poise with the blue weapons which makes them challenging but not bullshit and I think they are really fun to fight now
"Bugs Bunny in a world full of Daffy Ducks" is the best analogy I've heard, fitting. Good job
"Dante is a Bugs Bunny..."
100% agree, I'm so glad someone else found drew this comparison.
I totally see why this one took so long...
Let's be real for a moment, Dante was never cool, he just did cool things. He's a giant dork and is unashamed about it, but that's why we love him.
This may sound a little philosophical but: How can you do cool things and not be cool? Sure, he's a giant goofball which is what makes him likable. But the feats that he accomplishes in just about every game makes him cool. After all, actions speak louder than words do and everything that Dante has done from DMC1, 3, 4 (even the King scene in 2) solidifies Dante as a cool protagonist.
Stop saying he is a dork he is badass and cool confident and does not wanna show his feelings other than quip and shit I see these comments and there fucking stupid I don’t know anyone that likes him cause he is a dork cause he is not
Kyle Clover Think of the dorkiest or the most annoying character that you can, it's Charlie from It's Always Sunny for me. Now imagine that character all of a sudden start pulling off moves like Dante out of nowhere. In that moment, you forget their personality and are in awe of what they're doing. Then, after it's all over, they open their mouth with the annoying screech that only Charlie Day can do, and the illusion is broken. Then you remember their personality and do what you can to avoid them.
I actually had this conversation with someone else yesterday after your comment because I think it's a good discussion. Coolness is subjective, obviously and it comes in different forms. But I think attitude is what really makes one cool. Charlie Day pulling off Dante-esque moves is out of character for him. It would be cool to see, but it's not his character. Charlie Day isn't stylish. Dante on the other hand is. His actions, mannerisms, attitude all lead to the character that he is. I can totally see you seeing him as a dork but Dante's over the top actions are consistent through the games. The only time it isn't is when he's actually dead ass serious about something. I totally see where you're coming from but I think Dante's original design was supposed to be cool and all his actions reflect that. Charlie Day's character in IASIP wasn't written to be a stylish devil hunter.
Dante is fine with himself. He enjoys what he is doing. That makes him likable. He also does heroic stuff without pushing an agenda or morals on players. Sure what he does is right, but it isn't the reason, why he does it.
I was annoyed by DMC3 Dante first, but the good pacing, the side characters are just perfect. Dante is like Deadpool, a character we can enjoy in small portions. He shouldn't be used all the time - thus tiring the audience out with his mannerisms.
The main problem I have with this game is why is this vergil the way he is?
Why does his coat have a Blue Los Muertos Esqe Skull on his trench coat?
Why does he use summoned swords?
Why does he fight the way he does?
Why cant he do any of the missions he sends dante on?
he willing thinks he can beat dante at the end of the game so why even need dante?
And how did vergil even expect to quote on quote “rule’ the humans? He never showed any true power like og vergil so what was he gonna do?
Vergil feels like ninja theory made a character then played dmc 3 and was like that vergil guy is cool, lets do that then stapled vergil into this game
You know what's worse? Vergil's DLC. I don't know how, but they made Vergil to look even weaker. Throughout the DLC it's shown how Dante is much better than him in a handful of ways (since childhood) and Vergil envies Dante.
Dante DOES become stronger than Vergil in DMC3, but that's because of Dante's ideology and heart and blah blah. Vergil never saw Dante as the better brother, he saw Dante weak because of Dante accepting his human side.
bob barbas' boss fight - while it doesn't present much of a challenge - was really well designed imo. i genuinely enjoyed playing it, with the visuals and the themes, and how the level switches to a live news feed. i also gotta give it to the reboot for level design and art direction. it's got the best non-combat / platforming in any dmc game hands down
Enjoyable vid/series. Just a few comments -
1. Your analysis on Capcom being mostly responsible for the changes that led to the controversy, rather than Ninja Theory, is a good and under-appreciated point. For my part when this game released I'd been despairing of Capcom for a while (for a variety of reasons, and that continued until fairly recently) and while I didn't really understand that at the time, it makes a lot of sense in retrospect.
2. The section on where the responsibility for the controversy post-reveal and post-release came from is probably just about balanced enough to my memory. I'd personally have placed more blame (and thus video time) on the games press, who responded to what by all accounts was a dumpster fire by pouring fuel on it for an extended period of time. I'm not going to deny the tragicomic response from some quarters of the fanbase (I mean hell, you have video proof of several of them) but I think it overeggs the pudding slightly when all I can remember from the hardcore fans that I spoke with was complaints about the mechanics of the game, and few to none complaining about cosmetic aspects.
3. While it's not strictly on-topic to this video, you could also have included a "what can/did we learn" section near the end because Capcom were certainly paying attention, and I'm not talking about DMC5's reveal a few weeks ago. Consider the response to Resident Evil 7 and compare it with DmC in similar circumstances - moving the series to a different, more west-friendly and contemporary style but still managing to pull a lot of the franchise faithful in.
Engaging stuff, thanks for putting the time into the video.
More so its "fans" overreacting. Originally I was solely against DmC up to the demo release, which I ended up buying it on release and loving it.
I'd say there are a couple key things to takeaway from DMC versus Resident Evil 7. Resident Evil 7 was dramatic change after a notoriously unpopular entry in a long running series. Devil May Cry was still relatively new and hadn't experienced the stagnation that would have fans open to a new take (See Tomb Raider Legend/Tomb Raider 2013 not being controversial reboots at all). Also Resident Evil 7 was a soft reboot that didn't disregard any previous continuity, and the appeal of Resident Evil doesn't rest so much on any one character that you can't mix things up. That said, Capcom didn't reboot Chris Redfield, they just made a new character, nobody's emotional connection to 20 year old RE games got to interfere too much with how they viewed Resident Evil 7.
Jaded To a degree you're right. However RE6 is the highest selling in the series and DmC could have transitioned into the series itself. Also almost every RE game can be "controversial" as things change.
Resident Evil 6 sold well, but based off its critical reception, Capcom would have eroded the brand making another game just like it. I know I wouldn't have played another RE game that billed itself as being just like RE6. As things stood, they were in a position where a radical departure from the norm was welcome. Although I totally get any RE game is going to have enough detractors to make it controversial (like I'm sure there are people who care the RE 2 remake has an over-the-shoulder camera and they apparently ditched the AB campaign system). I'm sure if the Ninja Theory DMC was the 8th or 9th DMC game, or it followed up a poorly received mainline entry it would have caused less of a stir
Regardless of what you think of DMC, I think we can all agree that the art for Virgil's Downfall was really good.
I think the artstyle of this game in general is really good even the bosses
Yeah, but Vergil's hair at the end of the story kind of looks dumb tbh. They should have kind make it look like in cutscenes in which his is all messed up. Lol
I see what they where trying to do kinda have his hair like the old one but i do agree it didn´t fit should have stayed the same
Hyperbithero kinda laughed at the art for Whitecoat Vergil at the end, but actually if a DmC 2 exist with him being a boss and not something you play as, it's fine
It was a lot better than the main campaign but honestly the surrealist blue and oranges of the reboot just doesn't do it for me.
The Dante-Vergil fight here was so forced so they could make an excuse for a final boss
Like really. They could’ve talked about it like civilized men at first
1:11 is my friends and I in cosplay having a drink with Matthew Mercer
Thought I saw Matt in there! Sounds like you're living a great life if you get that kind of opportunity.
@@neonal18 thank you. I don't cosplay as much as I used to but I've made some amazing friends in the process. Matt was pretty chill too. I asked for a picture and he ended up hanging with us until he had to go to his panel.
Shit I dunno weather to make a Mcree Joke or a Jotaro Joke
John Stark It’s obvious, Critical Role.
I feel like Dante has a timeless cool factor.
OK One Small Correction DMC2 was being made behind Hideki Kamiya while DMC1 was being translated he didn't even know it was a thing (its how capcom Handled new IPs in the Ps1 to 2 era they completely changed teams to see if someone with a different vision could make it sell better) and some time later he got the Clover Studio Branch which gave him more freedom until it closed its doors after God Hand's Release. THEN he made Platinum Games
I wonder if we will ever get a God Hand 2. or at least a full remaster! That was fun game with so many unique gameplay mechanics! I would rate the gameplay complexity as high as DMC, with all the attacks you can buy and create so many different varied combos, and man, that roulette wheel attacks were absolutely fun and hilarious! Ball buster!
Being out of three Clover studios game it sold the worse I highly doubt it be cool though
MP2066 it was super cool! One of the best games i played on ps2.
I may be a hypocrite, since I haven't played God Hand or Okami, but I heard that the reason the titles didn't sell well because it wasn't advertise as much as the other titles were.
I know, I covered all that in my Bayonetta vid, I just didn't want to do through the history again when addressing the DMC to Bayonetta thing here since it wasn't a major focus
I was getting Ninja Theory confused with Team Ninja this whole time. I was confused that Capcom hired developers that make titty fighters to reboot DMC. Looking at Team Ninja who made the solid Ninja Gaiden games, they would have probably been a better choice for this project.
And we could have gotten Dante/Lady/Vergil/ and/or Trish in DoA, then everyone would win
The sad thing is, DmC Dante looked really good with the wig.
No
Terrific work. You definitely captured the ups and downs of DmC: Devil May Cry. You really did your homework.
Dante, to me, has always struck a balance between the ansty, wide eyed Japanese anime protagonists and the more grounded and realistic characterizations often found in western culture. It's fun to see him be cool and no having to suffer through what Totalbiscuit called "anime bullshit"
Totalbiscuit called "anime bullshit"
O.O I KNOW HIS DEAD but..............Even when I try to watch some of his videos...I could NEVER finish his videos
And I guess my "Instinct" tell be why
Yeah, I mean the original Dante. Nobody likes the new one.
That is an overstatement. I prefer Dante from 3/4, but I do like the new one. My friends who play games casually had their introduction into the series via DmC, they still like the new Dante after playing the old titles.
Yeah. A lot of people will pretend that Dante has always been the same character, but if we're honest for once, he has been pretty damn different in nearly every game. I couldn't stand him in DMC3 and loved him in DMC1, 3 and the remake.
Arthur Wild he wasn’t that different in every game, they’re all set pretty far apart so it makes sense for him to not always act the same. You say you can’t stand him in 3 but he actually goes through a character arc there unlike the reboot
"Put down our pitchforks and finally let it go"
Tell that to games journalists who seem intent on digging this hatchet up every chance they get.
They're the ones who need to let it go.
@Stellar Gnoma Okay but we have DMC 5 now so... yeah, I think it's time to let it go.
No You twit. It takes two to tango. The fans and the games journalist need to let it go. Game wasn't awful not was it perfect just came about in the perfect storm of internet and corporate hell that kept it from finding great success
And stellar, case in point, who gives a shit. The game is 5 years old. Get over it, DMC was niche as it was and Capcom merely acted as incompetently as most businesses do when pushing an ailing product. You can hold them in some contempt but Christ having a vendetta over a video game is pretty sad
@Stellar Gnoma And see people like you are the problem.
@Stellar Gnoma Just proving the point keep in mind features from this game carry over into 5 so yeah.
Anyone know who was the guy responding to Tameem about Donte looking like he's about to rob a jewelry store?
Feel like you could have elaborated on why the wig scene was really bad and why Tameem is bad man for another 57 minutes, but beyond that great work
Codex Entry what was wrong with the wig scene?
Dedo Demi you have a point about it being better then 2, 2 was godawful and boring, but better then 4? You have to be insane to think that: best gameplay in the series, decent writing most of the time (baring the constant screaming of "Kyrie"). Pretty much all your issues stem from the game only being half finished, which while shitty really speaks to how utterly horrible the reboot is.
DmC is a decent game but DMC 4, DMC 3 and 1 are better
I hope Nero gets a DmC Dante outfit to trigger the toxic Nostalgic DMC fanboys in DMC 5
How can you blame Tameem for being pressured by Capcom execs? He did his best with what he could.
I feel your explanation of the wig scene, but the fact that they had him look dead in the camera and say it coupled with the controversy still feels like a a middle finger to me 5 years later....
I feel that, that's just my personal take on it. I know fans still feel a shafted by that scene and it still gets that mad, but I softened to it after doing this research and realized how insane a lot of controversy stuff was in hindsight.
I see your point. Ninja Theory was really in a lose-lose situation all around with both the joke and the game as a whole. I've been saying for years that if Capcom would've just let them change the name and characters names of the game and put out the exact same product it would've been infinitely better received and probably more successful to boot. Good work on the video though btw
You should grow up
...because I drew a subjective conclusion about a poorly written and even worse timed joke based on my adoration for a media property I've been a fan of for the better part of my entire life, and then shared my opinion with a person that clearly shares the same level of adoration because they made an hour long video on it? K.
I never even took that scene seriously (also didn't really follow the statements from Ninja Theory beyond looking at trailers, and not feeling like it was a bigger deal than the Prince of Persia or Tomb Raider reboots)... like Dante's hair still goes white at the end of the game. If they made a sequel to DMC, Dante would probably look a lot closer to his classic look. It's an origin story, like how Xavier gets mad at the suggestion that he get his head shaved, but by the end of the story he's bald and in a wheelchair like you remember him. Vergil's hair always being white, and the white hair in DT mode (even in the earliest trailers) meant for me, there was never any doubt that this is what Ninja Theory was doing.
The most thoroughly thought through dissection of DmC I've ever seen. Really good. Keep this up for not many creators stick to this format of long and deep analysis.
"Equally poorly handled, but to varying levels." How can both parts be true?
I feel that if DmC wasn’t called Devil May Cry and being a pointless and premature reboot, people wouldn’t have hated it near as much as it was a decent game. I still heavily prefer the original series, but if this game wasn’t associated with it then it might’ve had better reception.
Can’t wait for DMC5 though!
Honestly, I think DmC: Devil May Cry would have just went the route of Dante's Inferno and more or less be forgotten if it was called by another name.
Unfortunately the Devil May Cry fans would have sunk it in hate for being a "cheap copy of devil may cry" even if they changed the character's names and took away the DMC branding. It's a shame that they were strongmanned so much by Capcom and by fan pressure, because Ninja Theory have proved multiple times that they're more than capable of making solid games, and after Senua's Sacrifice it seems like DmC could originally have been something really interesting. In the first trailer Dante very clearly had elements of PTSD from torture, he was grungy and smoking and suffering flashbacks to trauma - but then that basically all got wiped away to make him more like the original Dante. We could have had a really interesting, dark game focused on THAT, but instead DmC lives a weird kind of half-life where it isn't really sure of its identity because it had to be so many things at once.
@EnglishRosie Problem is, he really, REALLY wasn't anything like original Dante. It's been pointed out that reboot Dante acts closer to Nero than he does to himself, except taking his flaws to an absurd degree.
The trailer for DmC was actually far more interesting than what it ended up being. That trailer was dark, showed this character being tortured and having flashbacks to those moments. It wasn't the DMC we loved, but it was more intriguing than what we got in that reboot.
Years later, I still wonder what the TGS trailer's presentation of DmC would have been like as a full game.
“Female characters can be more then just prostitutes with a big gun”
*makes a female character that has one use, gets captured, rescued by the super cool guy, literally looks like a pornstar, and at the end with a broken arm and ribs gets her ass grabbed before a cold cut to credits*
Good job dude you totally made a strong female character that can be treated like a girlfriend!
ohohoho! they fucking better have NOT called Lady a Prostitute!
Tameem just did, get mad that he loves to diss the DMC fans out of spite. Or be glad that DmC is done and gone that we won't see it ever again.
What kind of fucking porn do you watch that has women in it that look like Kat cause her appearance is by far the least pandering thing in the series. And his point was they weren’t going to make a character like lady or trial which is stale and cliche in the series by now.
Kat was intelligent. She was the playmaker of the group and the glue holding the brothers together. Also Vergil was captured as well and rescued by the same guy.
But Lady has more meaningful development in DMC 3 than anyone in the reboot. He really disrespected her character SMH.
I've got no hate or dislike for Kat as a character personally. Honestly she is probably the most likable person in the game by the virtue of being the only mayor player, who doesn't come across as needlesly arseholish or mean spirited and also her design is kinda cute, if nothing else.
That said, from narrative stand point she is really not that well implemented or utilized. We learn little to nothing about her beyond brief allusions to her traumatic background and in terms of her personal motivation she is essentially just an echo of Vergil. Beyond that she is essentially just a weaker version of Kyrie, working as a representation of humanity and the hero's primary motivation for protecting them.
"old dante would be laughed out of the bar" And you are saying the new one Wouldn't? gimme a break. Hypocrisy.
The new one wouldn't be laughed out of the bar, he will be waiting in line for entry and then denied access. He wouldn't even have that chance.
You want some crack?" Says donte
Best hour and eleven minutes of my week. I only discovered your channel yesterday; I thoroughly enjoy your soothing, smooth voice and how you rationally discuss the topic at hand. The effort you put into examining your point of discussion is impressive and how you present the information is fluid and engaging. Looking forward to watching more of your content!
Have fun in Japan!
The reason the "not in a million years" jab pissed people off is because, at that point, the old Dante the wig represents wasn't coming back. It's the equivalent of someone spitting on the grave of a friend and telling you it was funny. It's easy to brush it off now that OG Dante is back, but people being pissed at the time were justified IMO.
I really enjoyed DMC, and still love the original series. I appreciate what they tried with the reboot, and i wish we could have seen what they were originally going for with the prisoner concept.
So your saying that Devil May Cry needs to change with the times, like maybe giving the characters a more western style aproach, with photo realistic characters, while still keeping what made the game so popular in the first place, like the deep game play, and charming characters and taking place in a new environment . I wonder if we'll ever get that......
1:01:45 They were fighting over the Force Edge, not Rebellion. They look kind of similar though so i don't blame you.
You are right, I forget to double check myself on that one
Years later, I still enjoy watching videos about this controversy, as it always gets me thinking. One thought I had: many "cool" things will be silly and laughable in the future, but some things will always awe us. One of those is a core characteristic of Dante, that being the ability to laugh in the face of danger. He tells bad jokes and does goofy shit, and he's always having a blast, despite fighting the forces of Hell. At least, that's the Dante that the majority of fans seem to love. It's only when things get very personal for Dante that he becomes serious, but he still wisecracked when faced with some threats arguably more powerful than him.
This is the first unbiased video on DMC ive seen and its totally spot on, the ONLY thing i think you missed the lack of enemy types in the late game, lazy and instead of new enemies... it was just reskinned enemies with the same attacks and the color blue/red system. making the fights repetitive even if you were a fan of the new/easy mode combat system. Brilliant video dude, at over an hour long i can say it was definitely an hour well spent. Cheers mate
(p.s. i hated this game to an unbelievable level but found this video fair in all points)
I loudly shouted "YES" at the ending tease to your next video. As for the video, you had nothing to worry about, my dude. This is now the definitive analysis of DmC: Devil May Cry. Everything that could have been said was laid out on the table with a good balance of professionalism and personal opinions. As one who hates DmC, I have also come around to believing it's a fine game that could've been better without the DMC logo attached to it.
Perhaps it is time to let it go... After my own video on the TGS trailer.
Excellent job!
PS: I heard you say my name a few times. Time for a lawsuit.
DmC would have been a great game if it was a a DMC reboot
shoulda just made DmC a new IP , boom done
*was not
It would be a great franchise yeah the gameplay and graphic was 10/10 for it time
I still feel like DmC deserved more praise than it got. It's not a bad game gameplay wise (aside from the missing Lock-On feature on the original release, that was heresy), and though the story wasn't super deep, it was still fun to play. New and avant-garde isn't bad, and the only bad thing about the game were the fans coming after you if you even thought 'This isn't so bad'. But regardless, I figured the game was doomed the day the trailer came out. People can't accept different stuff, and that's fine. I'm glad we're getting DMC5 though.
@To Release is To Resolve and that is your opinion, every game has something SHIT about them, even the best of games. Keep it to yourself
Just came back to watch this a second time, forgot how in depth your analyzation was, incredible stuff-- agree with youbon pretty much every point (great stuff man/as always).
I disliked the more "realistic" graphics.
I HATED how crude the dialogue and writing was.
Well dmc 5 has the same realistic look so rip
DmC looked cartoony tho
“Muh stunted anime dialogue”
Ghost01 Donte slurs everything and has nothing interesting to say.
Comrade Justin DmC is not realistic. Look again.
"They're just action games with really good combat"
I think one thing that is a real shame about all this is that the virgil dlc story actually sets up for a what could be a very interesting sequel, but one that will unfortunately never happen.
Tameem forgot that Goth Clubs exist