STUCK: Our fifth wheel is NOT safe to use
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- 🚩Support this channel and the work that I am doing to bring about change in the RV industry: -- / lizamazing
Click Show More ⬇️⬇️ ⬇️For More Info
🛒 Liz Amazing’s Amazon Store: www.amazon.com...
✉️ Sign up for my newsletter: lizamazing.com/
👍Subscribe for more entertaining and informative Rv Travel Tips: th-cam.com/users/liz...
🌲 Thousand Trails: Eric Benson call: 541.527.0140 or email: eric_benson@equitylifestyle.com (Plz mention Liz Amazing)
Binge watch The good and the bad of the RV industry: • The good and bad of th...
🚴 My #1 video, shopping for an e-bike: • Shopping for an Ebike ...
🚴 🚴 SAVE $$$ on any JUICED E-BIKE. Use this link to get the LOWEST POSSIBLE PRICE: tinyurl.com/Ju... Use AMAZING50 to save $50.
🚌 Is fulltime RVing for you? Our video about the pros and cons of RV life: • Fulltime Rv Living: Ti...
📫 Get $10 in your postage account by signing up for Americas Mailbox and mentioning Liz Amazing on the application: americasmailbo...
🏞 Escapees membership club: www.escapees.c...
💰How I went from zero to 10,000 subscribers in ten months: tinyurl.com/Gr...
🛎 Use code AMAZING25 to save 25% on RV Trip Wizard, and get a free 7 day trial: tinyurl.com/Li...
✅ VIDEO DESCRIPTION
Liz interviews a couple whose Grand Design toyhauler is unsafe to use.
🧲🧲🧲 LINKS 🧲🧲🧲
🚩Support this channel and the work that I am doing to bring about change in the RV industry: -- / lizamazing
RV inspector Debbie Bruening: Deb's RV Services: www.debsrvserv...
TH-cam channel: @debsrvservices
**If you'd like to be interviewed about your RV ownership experience (good or bad), email me at liz[@]lizamazing[.]com Or click on the email link under About on the channel page.
🛒 Liz Amazing’s Amazon Store: www.amazon.com...
***As an Amazon Associate I earn a small amount from qualifying purchases. You don't pay any extra AND you help support the channel. Thank you!
📺 Videos mentioned
RV salesman shares trade secrets: • RV salesman reveals tr...
RV inspector spills the beans on RV quality: • RV inspector spills th...
Their motorhome is CRACKING: • RV problems: CRACKS in...
Who's to blame for the RV industry decline? • Who's to blame for the...
I don't trust my RV dealer: • Can this RV dealer be ...
Is their RV nightmare finally over? • Is their RV nightmare ...
A GOOD RV: • Is this trailer too go...
💙💙💙 Shout-out to our Patreon Super Fans. Thank you so much for your support! 💙💙💙
Jay TheNewfie
💙 Join me on the Patreon community and get the inside scoop before everyone else! - / lizamazing
✅ Who is Liz Amazing?
Liz Amazing is a consumer advocate helping people who have had problems with their new RVs. The RV industry has responded to her videos by flying techs in to make repairs, transporting rigs back to the factory, and even buying back defective RVs.
✅ All Rights Reserved. These videos are for entertainment purposes only. Liz is not a travel or RV expert. She shares her RV tips and tricks that work for her. It is important to do your own research to find what works best for you. Liz is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
#granddesignrv #frameflex #rvindustry
🧲🧲🧲 LINKS 🧲🧲🧲
🚩Support this channel and the work that I am doing to bring about change in the RV industry: -- www.patreon.com/LizAmazing
RV inspector Debbie Bruening: Deb's RV Services: www.debsrvservices.net
TH-cam channel: @debsrvservices
**If you'd like to be interviewed about your RV ownership experience (good or bad), email me at liz[@]lizamazing[.]com Or click on the email link under About on the channel page.
🛒 Liz Amazing’s Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/lizamazing
***As an Amazon Associate I earn a small amount from qualifying purchases. You don't pay any extra AND you help support the channel. Thank you!
Liz, Thank you for your videos......
After watching them I've made my decision...With my residential construction / automotive background, and my current job as an industrial mechanic, electronics tech.....I'm building my own RV.
From the ground up.
Thanks Again!
I designed a RV due to my 20+ years repairing them that would solve 90% of the issues you show. It didn't take my engineering degree to figure it out, only common sense. Even though my methods would save the RV industry millions, they are so corrupt they can't even consider it.
Don't ever buy rv. Cargo trailer and build it out..
Liz you have really saved me from making HORRIBLE mistakes with bad uninformed choices. Thank God there’s somebody speaking up for those of us that are buying these units!
Thanks so much, I sure appreciate your support!
Totally agree. It just isnt right that many RV makers are selling product with defects, and not standing behind their crappy made RV's. Especially when steel frames are breaking in half. There should be a law to protect the consumers. If I spent over 100K and the frame broke, and the maker of that RV refused to fix it, I would hire a good lawyer. Plus who ever else would go after them.
Just wait for the technician to get off of work and follow home. Buy him/her a 12 pack and ask all the questions you like with no intervention from management. There I fixed it for ya 👍
We full-timed. But now when I see rigs going down the road, I shudder every time I see them. I'm just shocked how long it's taking for this to go into a class action suit - Lippert and Grand design need to be held accountable!
Only thing is Lipert is building what grand design ordered
Everyone needs to get in touch with their state representatives and push for rv lemon laws that will hold all rv brands accountable for the junk they produce and push on unsuspecting buyers. This is the only way to force manufacturers to build to a standard and improve quality control.
The RV manufacturers have already bought most of the state legislatures !
Some people don't want the government involved, until they have a problem?
Yes!!
Great idea
"I reached to the head of customer relations at Winnebago, which owns Grand Design, plus my contacts at Grand Design customer service. So far the response I've gotten from them is a hard NO."
That's all I needed to hear when it comes to who NOT to do business with. Keep up the OUTSTANDING work, Liz. Keep bringing the truth and eventually the market will implode on these businesses with abhorrent customer service and products.
Thanks for this! I've worked with a lot of other RV mfrs, as you know, and this is the first time I've gotten a response like this. Now that the video is out I am hoping they change their stance. Thanks for watching and I will keep you posted.
No wonder Grand Design is crap, crap making crap.Blind leading the blind.
All these stories, Grand Design would do better just fixing these.
I've been researching RV's for a year or so now. I can guarantee you that I wouldn't give a nickle to any Winnebago affiliated company if this is the way they treat customers.
Hey Liz. WOW, I have a Grand Design and have not had any issues with the frame flexing (knock on wood) but I will keep a lookout for problems. I have some advice for Grand Design and Lippor. You need to nip this in the bud NOW. I forsee a class action and a host of BAD press coming your way. You can be proactive or reactive gentelmen, which do you think is good for your company? Safe travels and keep up the pressure...
A guy I worked with retired and wanted a RV to be his home. That guy read and watched hundreds of hours of RV videos. He even went to Elkhart Indiana to where a lot of RV's are built. He told me that the materials and quality of workmanship on RV's was a joke.
So true!
"a guy". Well then it must be true.
RVs are underbuilt and not road-worthy in general. They're only engineered to remain stationary.
The audacity of Grand Design or Winnebago to say they won’t fix it !!
I know it. I will keep pushing and hopefully that will change. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
Hell, just JB WELD those cracks. RV plants can't do any better.
That’s exactly what I thought. I think Grand Design went DOWN HILL when Winnebago bought them out.
If those photos are of a 3 year old unit then clearly they know what the actual issue is. There should not be rust on a relatively new unit. As far as shoddy welding, you gets what you pay for. As using cheaper steel may also contribute to weld penetration and over longevity of the frame. Class action lawsuits may be in your future
Sadly no one is grateful for your purchase anymore regardless of the cost. Its like retailers seem to think they are the ones doing us a favor 🤔
Thank you Liz for advocating for consumers!
Thanks for being here!
This couple seem reasonable and are able articulate the issues very well. Shame on Grand Design (aka: Winnebago). I own a Grand Design, 2016, and no problems BUT NOW I AM SO EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED AND EMBARRASSED IN GRAND DESIGN. Shame on Lippert for sending out their RV frames that are unsafe! I think Grand Design needs to hire a flatbed truck and pick up this Momentum and take it to Indiana and FIX IT. GRAND DESIGN, WHERE IS YOUR INTEGRITY?
I agree that GD needs to take this rig back, but logistically it's not possible to put a big toy hauler like that on a flat bed due to bridge height restrictions. GD should just buy out this couple and then scrap the rig in place.
Im not defending lippert. But they build frames to the customer specs.
I agree that Lippert should bare some responsibility. I personally would not make frames that anyone designs that are not holding up to the weight and construction
I’m so so disappointed in hearing this. We just bought a 2024 Grand Design last November. In our research and shopping we eliminated one manufacturer at a time…and landed with only Grand Design left. When we have worked our whole careers as teachers, we are not wealthy people and spending this kind of money on an RV is MASSIVE for us. We have a Reflection 337 RLS and have only had it out twice so far. I hope we don’t have to become unpleasant to get things done with the minor things we are already seeing…oven not working…and leaky seal in the bedroom slide. So far Grand Design has told us they absolutely will replace the seal and do whatever needs to happen to get the oven working. Crossed fingers that our dealer will have our backs. Best of luck with your Momentum…
@janetswope5695 Janet it's a major problem study up on it as much as possible. It has affected other manufacturers in the luxury fifthwheel market and in the cheap pull behinds too. I will pull mine with my Kenworth t680 . I will also keep it as light as possible. I've noticed a majority of the ones on you tube had full-time heavily loaded trls. My 2 cent worth. Road conditions also play (as a retired 4 million mile trucker opinion) a major factor also. Slow down on bridges with rough on an off where thr trl bounces. That's major flex right there. I'm in same boat as yall just use common sense and maybe we get through this.
The best day we had with our RV was when we sold it. It’s not just DG. It’s a lot of manufacturers who just don’t care to dealers who know they’re selling junk! Never again.
Liz, your honest channel has helped me realize that RV life is not for me. Most of these vehicles are junk. I love road trips but I am quite happy staying at hotels along the way. A vacation should be stress free. RV life does not appear to be.
Sorry to hear that, David. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2018 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching. For more about what to buy used see my recent video: th-cam.com/video/JSo5n2B62MA/w-d-xo.html
@user-rr7bv6my4e I think one of those Mercedes vans with a rear bathroom would be the closest thing, it when I do the math and consider their upfront cost, MPG, Insurance, storage cost, maintenance, etc. I could take a lot of trips staying nightly in a Hampton Inn before I would even approach the cost of the Mercedes Van.
@@davidwelty9763 Yup, and you can hop on a plane and travel to different countries.
Younger and with less time to travel (I now realize what a hell life it was, subsisting on two weeks vacation each year), we did hotels. Apparently, that was a time when they were cleaner, safer and people had manners.
Now? Nope. Our 2011 Coachmen Class C. We only had one real mechanical problem: the wire harness controlling the slide fell onto a wheel and was shredded. Other than that, it has been a dream to travel in.
Any problems with the RV came from people: during COVID, it was in storage while we sheltered in a condo. Poor Arvee. Broken into, trashed interior, looks like they took a crowbar to the outside, then the &$#( people stole the catalytic convertor. Progressive RV insurance paid for the catalytic convertor, but the exterior damage? They paid a pittance.
We've done hotel stays while consulting health specialists and hated .. haaaated ... it.
Thank you.Liz My question to you is. Instead of going to the manufacturer again for answers. What do you think of going to a federal watchdog group or agency or even the Dept of transportation with this video? for sure. As we know these trailers and the bad frames are a danger to the driver and the public being on the road. Think of sharing this video to Pete Buttigieg head of Dept of Transportation
that's a good idea.
This guy hit the nail on the head, how did Honda, Toyota, Datsun, Volkswagen, et al get their foot in the door? The crap that was coming out of Detroit is how. The very same thing could easily happen in the RV industry, and they'll have no one to blame but themselves.
Indeed. Let's hope it happens to get them to straighten up. Thanks for watching
Nice idea but how much foreign competition is in the RV market? Looks almost non-existent to me.
@@LizAmazing Idaho would be a great location for a quality RV trailer frame manufacturer to start business. This State used to have some well known brands of RVs made here. Dunno how or why the industry has concentrated in Elkhart Indiana. Cheap Amish labor?
Exactly.
@@njcanuck that is the problem! No other place has these crazy large RVs already. No competition and they buy each other out.
We have a Grand Design 376TH. 2019. Our driver side wall on the RV sagged due to frame failure. We fixed ourselves. I don’t know why anyone going forward would consider a GD seeing how customer service has handled this major frame issue across so many of their rigs. I never will. Thank you for bringing issues to light. So many are unaware. The 397 across from us had the GD SRT here tacking it together and it’s headed back to factory for frame repair.
Bummer! So sorry!
I have an 18 376th, before mid year refresh that added the morryde steps. I haven't had any issues aside from leaf springs. What section of the rig had failure? The outriggers in the kitchen area, or up in the living room?
@@smirnoff242 about half way back on the kitchen slide to the mid tire area. The triangle frame gussets are flat aft of the fridge. Those fold and fail. I believe not supported well for washer dryer and pantry weight. This has been an issue on several 376 units. Not all. However the potential is there on all. At least 2019 and earlier for sure.
@@tadblankenbaker4587 good to know. Yeah the super wide body with the outriggers doesn't seem like it could support too much weight
Thanks for what you’re doing to help those who feel they have nowhere to turn. God bless. ❤🙏
You are so welcome, Greg, glad to be making a difference! Thanks for watching
This is truly sad that a company has been presented, with irrefutable proof, that their product is failing at an alarmingly high rate. I guarantee they have consulted with their lawyers as to how to defend & deflect this issue. They dont want to admit there is a severe safety issue here. If & when somebody dies due to this, they'll most likely file for bankruptcy to avoid paying any judgements. Time will tell.
Keep up the good work. Your the best voice out there for the RV consumer.
Thanks so very much, Mike!
Never buy an RV, if you stop buying them, they will start making them properly. I haven't heard anyone who is completely happy
This couple should never have to go through this like others have. Your insider with the statement on welding is eye opening. I find it sad that the truckers and auto manufacturers have to jump through hoops to be safe and yet another unit that travels the us highways has no oversight.
Go to big truck big rv for frame plant tour videos and testing that goes into the frames. He has a whole series on it
Stories like yours have been a major driver of my decision to have nothing to do with RVing. I'm a Pro craftsman and can fix anything, but I won't work with junk. The industry clearly has lost sight of the basic in business...make a quality product, serve your customers, make them happy, keep them happy...that equals repeat business and success as a person and in business.
Sorry to hear that. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2018 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching. For more about what to buy used see my recent video: th-cam.com/video/JSo5n2B62MA/w-d-xo.html
@@LizAmazing 100% true. Don’t buy new. As you know Liz, we bought our Grand Design, Reflection (5th wheel), in 2016 and it’s solid. Sometimes I think about upgrading to a newer RV, and then I come to my senses!
Nobody has to buy this new junk. There were some manufacturers back in the day who did good work. You have to do your research to find out which ones were good. Those are the ones on our short list. I've researched for years.
@@LizAmazingListen to Liz,I bought a 2004 Bounder,gas,35' and it's built nice and strong,13,900 miles on it, just broke in, cheap wallpaper the biggest complaint 😅
There’s a saying in the auto sales industry. “The last thing you want to do is take one of your customers and make them somebody else’s customer.”
And that’s exactly what every dealer and manufacturer in the RV business is doing.
My experience with RV dealers is they don’t stand behind what they sell. / Basically, there is no service after the sale.
That's because there are a bunch of kids pretending to actually be some sort of technician working at these dealers
I don't know how one of these things could be built to withstand driving down interstates and random roads. I mean it would be like a house being shaken for 8 hours a day. I agree they are junk, but even built well I don't se how a bouncing house no matter how well built can last.
Has anyone contacted the Indiana Attorney General? Winnebago’s response is totally unacceptable.
The AG is probably one of the first public offices the RV manufacturers bought off !!!
@@whereyougoiwillgorving4492 Todd Rokita seems legit.
@@whereyougoiwillgorving4492 that wasn’t their question.
The road does lead through Indiana as the RV buyer of most RVs agree on purchase to abide by laws of that state when it comes to warranty work that needs to change and to my knowledge only California is putting pressure on the manufacturer to change this@@WinePunk
Why will the AG enjoy special homosexual rights when they won't accept Trump's stand on illegal mexicans ?
Another thing is that many of these folks are retired and I think manufacturers are thinking "Oh dollar signs so we'll build this thing as cheap as we can to have stockholder returns that are high". In other words, they're taking advantage of people who are retired just for the money.
It's very short sighted of them to not put customers first. Thanks for watching
I first heard of this problem back in 2018. A couple friends of mine were fighting with Lippert to fix it way back then. The manufacturer is well aware of this problem and has been for a long time.
that damage looks like metal fatigue stress fractures from sub-par cheap metal framing! could splint weld it with heavy duty metal plates... BUT you should not have to do this on a new RV
Thank you Liz, my options are changing. Definitely not Grand Design. To many Horrible stories.
One thing they really need to do is hire an independent NRVIA certified inspector to inspect their toy hauler BEFORE it goes back to Grand Design. Get everything identified in a written report that they can give to Grand Design.
Apparently it's not going back to Grand Design. They're refusing to take it back to the factory, even just to repair it.
G-D is really shooting themselves in the foot.
@@Milesco omg are you sure GD is refusing to repair it that's so bad
you are indeed amazing, Liz. You are doung a great job with your very professional videos! Hello from your friends Brook & Wolfie
Hi you two! I hope you are enjoying life, big hugs!
Great video Liz. Keep it going. Inspectors is not the best way to go. Watch other videos. They don’t take apart the rv. They can only see what’s exposed. The big problem here is Indiana attorney general gets a lot of money from the lobbyist. It’s no secret, it’s on TH-cam. Something needs to be done with any trailer that people worked hard to buy. It’s no joke
I know. There are no easy answers. And an inspector is not going to be able to take it apart and see the frame problems, unfortunately. Thanks for watching.
Wow, this is crazy. These RV's are NOT safe. I don't think they can be "fixed", that's why there's resistance to admit there's a problem. Once the RV is built on the frame you can't fix the frame without disassembling the entire RV.
32 years manufacturing welding. If the metal is cracked it not the welding it the engineering. Probably add some 10 gauge to my travel trailer
Liz , I'm so sorry for these two people and all the problems they are having with there Grand Design motorhome. My wife and I have been thinking of purchasing a motorhome. We have a Class A 40' but she can't drive this large motorhome. We were thinking of a Grand Design because everyone has talked so Great about there product. Well after seeing this video I can say we will have to consider other options. If they will not step up for a new product having a factory defective frame. I know we could never trust there product. If I was treated like them I can honestly say I would be in jail by now. I wish you well and hope you can help resolve this problem for them in some say. Thanks for all you do to help others .
Great work Liz. The most important part of this video his the communication from your confidential informant at Lippert. I hope you'll do a whole video about that. I think this is much bigger than outrage on TH-cam. This needs to be on 60 Minutes or another high profile media exposure. People's lives are literally at risk. One of these big RVs could literally come apart on the highway endangering many people.
Went to the FMCA Convention in Tucson last week. Thousands of RVs from all over. There was a little RV diagnostic company among the vendors in the exhibit hall. They had a line out the door, hundreds of people all day long for four days. All looking to get a report on their RV problem that they could take to their dealer, manufacturer, or mechanic when they got back home.
Never seen anything like this at any car, truck, or boat show -- ever. Shocking. As a consumer, I suppose the only way to go at this is to buy used... pre-Covid used. Even better, 2005-2010 used. And even then, given the repeated RV problems with slides and frames, maybe it's best to travel via Amtrak bedrooms, nice old hotels, and rent a car here and there as you go. With today's RV prices, you would save a lot of money just avoiding them altogether.
Seems if theres a safety issue, maybe Highway Patrol, DOT, etc. Should be notified.
I would recommend people take a look at Northwood Campers (Arctic Fox, Nash, and Outdoors RV). They make their own frames in-house specific to each model and don't have the frame failure issues of the mass produced crap coming out of Indiana. The biggest draw back with them is they are Pacific Northwest based (and hard to find in the Eastern part of the U.S.) and heavier than campers of the same size because they are well-built and well insulated, true 4-season campers.
We have a Nash and am so grateful. It’s our 4th trailer ~ we are very happy with it.
Totally agree
Here is one idea for you. Get all the ones with an issue, organize a caravan to show up at Grand Design service(make it big a long) with banners etc. And call all the media, tv news, and you’ll see how quick they will take action
Oh wonder, what happened that you sold your RV and decided to go underground? Did you received any threats ?
No threats. I had an RV mfr try to buy me in exchange for not posting a video. That got me thinking that what I am doing is really making an impact. I wasn't concerned at the mfr level, more so on the dealer level. I don't want to worry about some half crazed salesman wanting to slash my tires. I know it was a long shot but I didn't want to wait until it became obvious that I need to be incognito. So now I'm flying under the radar. Thanks for your support, and that's a great idea about the caravan. Stay tuned!
Am sure the "they ," will steer clear ,cause we know who "they " are and of course you have cameras etc.. 👍🌹😊
@@LizAmazingWow! Thanks for posting all those details. Not sure if you’ve mentioned this level of detail in any recent videos, but please do. We all have so much respect for your work and not being “bought off” from a mfg just makes me respect your integrity and character even more. Please keep doing what you’re doing- we need you out there! - from a full-timer since 2012 and in our 3rd beloved Keystone Alpine 5th wheel made in 2017.
@@LizAmazing dear liz yes me again any time you need to be kept safe and under the radar i can lend you my guard dog fifi she is very very brave all, she isn't aware that she is a chihuahua and a teacup size beast from hell she thinks she is the same size as a horned bull just don't get your lip near hers or she will take it off
blessing to you from autralia
oops that should have spelled australia
My road trip experiences told me that I should never follow a 5th wheel or stay close by, especially these newer ones. They will blow up, shred into pieces and eventually put other drivers at risk as well. I got stuck on I-5 in Oregon for 5 hours because of that. Both the 5th wheel and the tow truck were in pieces on the FWY. SAD.
I don'r want to believe this poor quality.
The creator of that model have to fix every details . Bad design. Thanks GOD, IS NOT A AIRPLANE
I know, it's so scary. I'm just grateful they didn't drive down the road like that. I hope we don't start hearing about fifth wheel accidents when the frames start failing on the road. Thanks for watching.
Wow I was actually considering Grand Design! Wow incredible the negligence and audacity to sell this to folks. The industry is malignant.
I sure hope Grand Design reconsiders. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
It seems to me Lippert engineers design and make the frame according to Grand Designs Specifications. I have heard that where these issues start coming up is when Grand Designs deviates from its original design plan that it submitted to Lippert engineers for approval. I’m no engineer but I would think that any and all deviations from the original specifications should in fact go back to Lippert engineers for approval.
It’s sad to see Ram recall close to a million or so trucks all for a an emissions not safety related issue but yet there’s no one who’s got the back of these 5th wheel owners? I’d hate to see someone have to lose their life or seriously injured in an accident caused by a 5th wheel for things to change. Remember it’s not just 5th wheel owners out on the roads. All of us including our children and loved ones could be affected.
Thanks again Liz for allowing others a place to voice their concerns.
We have a 2020 Grand Design Solitude, love it but hope we don’t have any frame issues ever!! Good Luck
I know. Pay attention if you have squeaky floors or any of the other signs these folks had. The biggest takeaway for me was that the measurement test isn't good enough. You need to have the filon removed so that the area can be inspected. Thanks for watching and stay safe.
This man has remarkable composure, as does his wife!FMVSS needs to get involved with RVs as human safety is at risk.
Watched my father survive Korean & Vietnam war and enjoy his Holiday Rambler many years. It is terribly distressing to see the industry overall makes junk now. Saw an older Holiday yesterday while walking. Just stood and admired the solid construction.
You two fine people deserved.
better!
This channel and Wingman do great work helping people!
God Bless you All!
Liz, good on you for bringing your influence to bear on behalf of the otherwise small voices. Though I don't currently have an RV/camper, I have owned a slide-in camper and a 25-foot travel trailer in the past and have been considering jumping back into the market. Your videos have really given me something to think about, and if we do get another rig, we will only reward the manufacturers and dealers that have shown some integrity over these admittedly difficult covid years. Keep on truckin'!
The GRAND DESIGN is too build extremely poor quality products, charge ultra-high prices, and take your money.
Grand Design doesn't stand behind their products - good to know. Saves me from making a very costly mistake.
Thanks for all your help with education about these rolling accidents to be.
You are so welcome. Yes, there are no doubt many unsafe units on the road. So scary. Thanks for watching.
I have a 46 year old Apollo mh I use all the time nothing falls off very well built no leaks better than anything built lately
Grand Design and Keystone are the Boeing of travel trailers.
No, the RV industry is much worse. Boeing has more critics than actual problems.
It's a crying shame this couple like others are going through this debacle with grand design. People have invested hard earned money into a coach that GD likes to preach how good their product is, to be completely left holding the bag with something unsafe and not saleable. Sure GD is strategically buying customers out of their coach signing non-disclosure agreements forcing people to take down videos to save the company image. This keeps the lawsuits down and then they can pick and choose who gets help and who gets left holding the bag. I've about decided to buy something older and fix it up myself or just forget it altogether. I don't need another headache. Thanks for the info. Hope this couple gets help and runs as far from grand design as possible.
Well said.
The best thing at this point is DO NOT BUY A NEW RV. It's the worst industry on the planet right now. Go buy a good used RV from before 2020.
There is a good 3 part youtube series on Lippert frame manufacturing, The use US made steel and most of the welding is done by robot. If you have frame questions watch them. Also I would guess 70 to 80% of the trucks towing a fifth wheel are overloaded on the rear axel.
I watched the videos. What I recall was the I-beams being welded by a robot. They still had 600 welders on the line making even more welds. They run 1000 frames through a day. If there are 100 welds per unit (just a guess), that is 12000 welds being done a day that are not robotic. If your people are not highly trained welders then you can expect some workmanship issues
What a lovely down to earth couple. It just blows the mind how these companies are able to continue selling models with serious defects that could pose a threat to human safety. There is no question that a significantly compromised frame presents a dangerous condition. It’s just outrageous given these are huge units intended and approved for interstate travel. If these were automobile frames or even tricycles with a faulty weld on the back step, there would be a stop sale order and recall!
Yes. This is a disaster waiting to happen. I hope this gets resolved soon, for everyone. Thanks for watching
And/or a class action lawsuit that would require the manufacturers to take accountability.
They just don't care anymore
Well.....no wonder this gentleman looks like he belongs in a magazine ,he has a razor !!!!! 🥳🥳🥳🤣🤣🤣😜😜😜
We have a 2023 397 that is experiencing many of the same symptoms as this couple. Ours has been in the shop for almost 4 months. Very discouraging to say tge least. Legal action maybe the best recourse for the many of us that are facing these issues.
Oh goodness, I am so sorry you are going through this, too, Don. Thanks for your comment and I hope you get some relief soon.
So sorry you are going through this. We clearly know how you feel.
Class action suit, if you can find others.
This is where I believe the lemon law should be added to rvs. If it was, the industry would worry more about the product they put out and not just the money they get upfront.
again I want to say thank you for what you are doing.
Aww, thanks Darryl. It feels good to be using my channel to help people. Thanks for being here!
Today’s worker only seeks a paycheck and don’t care about a good job . The quality control officer is no different, only wanting a check and not doing a great job , this is how this happens, every RV employee only wants a check and shows up 95% late to work all the time and believes they deserve a raise just because they showed up to go through the motions
Sounds like Lippert and Grand Design have a big liability issue.
I'm flabbergasted why intelligent people spend six or seven figures on a product and industry that's simply fraudulent. One can camp and enjoy nature without spending a fortune on glued and stapled trash. Do you really need to tow or drive something the size of a house to be comfortable?
Hey Liz just a thought. Be careful on how you address these issues. There are people out there that don’t like “Whistle blowers” and they have ppl that can intimidate you. With you being alone and are doing these types of videos. Please install security cameras on the outside of your rv. So you are safe. I’d consider possibly caring a weapon with you and or some pepper spray. Just please be careful. You are a great person helping people out. That is awesome that you help these people with RV issues. Take YOUR RV into a reputable dealer. And after servicing I’d check everything out before you head out. Like I said just a thought for your safety.😊😊 Be Safe, and have fun.
Thanks for your concern. In last week's video I shared that I sold my distinctive motorhome and am now flying under the radar. No threats, just want to sleep peacefully at night. And thank you so much for your support!
A weapon? Come on dude, you're watching too much TV
The lack of industry concern over quality appears to be widespread throughout not just rv but the lack of civil society.
I have a class 8 tractor trailer and the loss of reality in business acumen has been replaced by delusion.
The former road standards have fallen, which has caused manufactures to have to place heavier suspension, etc, components on their vehicles.
However, it's my opinion that logic has been replaced by emotion.
Emotion dosent build or maintain a customer base or tax base to maintain a civil society.
Feel free to be able to defend yourself in all spectrums.. we are, unfortunately, in that spectrum.
And you don’t,there’s some nasty people out there.
Charge a fortune for a slapped together lousy engineering and blame the customer - that's the Government's business model. I suspect these companies insurance carriers are thinking about cancelling some policies. This sounds like a class-action lawsuit of bankrupting proportions.
Short answer to these issues....don't buy new! There are a lot of used rigs out there for sale, find one whose owners have aged out and want to sell. Don't buy one that is made after 2018. Mine is a 2006 and it's been wonderful.....within reason! Get an inspection done before you lay any money out. LOOK UNDERNEATH THE RIG!!! Buying used means you may not get all the bells and whistles you want. Isn't it more important to have a safe and sturdy RV than one with 3 slides and a fireplace??? Unless you have more money than sense, think about what I just told you folks. Good luck and happy trails!!!
Good job bringing light to this issue. I have a GD Imagine and it has been problem free. I went to trade it and could not believe how much Grand Design quality has gone down. Looking somewhere else.
Keep up the good work Liz that was the worst frame I’ve seen yet I hope that couple gets their trailer sorted out thanks again have a great weekend
It’s not the welds. It’s that the frame is under engineered to handle all the dynamic loading. Especially with a heavy toy in the back. A few more gussets and support brackets would likely solve the issue. Shame on Grand Design.
I’m becoming convinced after watching and listening to these stories, that none of the RV manufacturing companies have mastered the art of building a quality rig today. However, Liz you are a great communicator and spokesperson for rv’ers.
The high end motorhomes (we can't afford) do well but all of rigs below $500K use the buyers as beta testers. A great product lawyer in the northwest said, "Do not buy an RV." To those of us without real cash it means buy an older rv that has everything fixed. Since 84' Foretravel has committed to quality first, Texas.
well i finally subscribed. i have to see what happens to you Liz. Keep us posted :)
Liz, thank you so much for making these videos. Knowing these facts, anyone who buys a grand design at this point with these issues has no one to blame but themselves.
Yep I live in Indiana and I can attest if your experienced your expendable, especially with people willing to work for minimum wage our State has doubled in population the last 10 years and the roads are like RV parks they'll tear a 4x4 truck up let alone an RV. I hope the Company corrects it for this couple good for them for not letting it ruin their RV experience.
Yes, I hope this is a wakeup call for Grand Design. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
I've seen numerous videos where RV owners have had numerous problems with Lippert products. Not just frames but leveling jacks and even steps. I just saw a video a couple of days ago where a guy bought a bumper pull to take hemis family on a vacation to Alaska while traveling through some road construction the tongue folded up on the trailer. The manufacturer blamed it on him taking the trailer off road. While doing his research to try and get someone to repair his trailer he found that there were numerous trailers with bent tongues. All manufactured by Lippert. The problem stems from them not using a heavy enough guage steel for the tongue
Oh my goodness. I've heard about those bent tongues. What a nightmare for Lippert. I hope they do the right things.
Same engineering and QC as Boeing?
Or procurement/buyers…
Looks like it is much worse.
😂😂😂 Excellent Comment!
😂😂😂
I have watched video after video and learned three things. One - dont buy Grand Design. Two - dont buy GD. Three - dont buy GD. I have a 97 Prevost and it has had very very few problems. None are perfect but i have much more faith in older models RVs and even more so in the solid frame of a coach over the plywood and staples that hold new trailers together. Save a lot of money and get a good older RV.
Liz, Is it a FLEX FRAME on their Momemtum? According to RV MILES, a subscriber reported that there is a Class Action Suit on the FLEX FRAME.
This is unbelievable!! I'm so sorry your going through this
I'm shocked to hear all of this issues with Grand Design. I'm so sad to hear this. I bought a 2600RB Travel trailer back in 2016 and had it for 3 years with not one issue and have friends who have purchased travel trailers from them with no issues also. Maybe it's the 5th wheels? They used be really good with their products and workmanship, I wonder what changed.
Grand Design you're making yourselves look stupid and an awful company to many that view these videos. You need to step up to the plate and own your mistakes. You need to get that toy hauler back to Indiana at your expense and quit playing games and do the necessary repairs.
Yes! Thank you for this!!! Please share this video to help get the word out.
I agree! Well said.
So sorry for all the GD owners that have to fight Grand Design to get this fixed. Unfortunately I do not think there is a longterm solution. They are desperately trying to “fix” but it will not last. It is a design problem together with a frame that is not up to the task. I worry that GD will survive this. First they fix and then they have to buy it back when the fix fails.
Greed Design, lots of lipstick on inferior products.
They didn't used to be that way. I hope they wakeup and take care of these folks. Thanks for watching.
I wouldn’t touch a grand design myself… defective rigs with a company that doesn’t care
@@LizAmazing I hope GD does as well. And that other manufacturers are watching, taking notes, and making necessary changes to their designs and structures and QA processes.
This should be an inflection point for the entire industry.
Build better and slower, teach your techs and let them have the time to do it right. A more secure and stable workforce will produce consistency and quality.
Don't just pump em out without the quality customers pay for and expect and then lay everyone off.
Excellent channel and place to share experiences.
Thank you much, Clint!
Great discussion. My thoughts exactly. If they can’t engineer and build them correctly, they shouldn’t build them at all. Thank for another great video!
Thanks Bob! Stay tuned for a follow up on this!
How can there not be better regulation on these? I fail to see how an industry can sell such expensive defective products that put the buyers and the public on the roads at risk without being fully responsible. Let alone the time, money and frustration of the poor buyers trying to get their RV in working order under the never-ending deluge of problems, yet being treated appallingly by the company.
I retire in a few months and have been watching your videos for about a year with plans to hit the open road... I think I might wait a while.
Hi Steve, Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2018 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching. For more about what to buy used see my recent video: th-cam.com/video/JSo5n2B62MA/w-d-xo.html I hope to see you out here!!
Just don’t buy new. Like Liz said, buy 2018 or older.
This companies are going to get in huge trouble when there's a major incident that causes loss of lives because of THEIR negligence!
These companies need to buy back at the FULL price these crappy RVs, and maybe it's just worth it to buy older ones that are solid, and remodel them.
Someone needs to hold these companies accountable, and since they're threatening and gaslighting you, maybe it's time you contact your senator and congressman, and bring them into the loop of what's really going on.
I did think highly of Grand Design but not no more. This is not the first video you have done Lisa regarding them. Best thing for us is look for preowned models and not Grand Design.
Me, too. I've owned two brand new Grand Designs. I think they are in serious trouble now with these frames. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
Very sad for the industry and those who purchase these poor designed and built RV's.
So sad the retired couple bought the rig and wanted to enjoy their life but ended up suffering from the nightmare. Thanks Liz for sharing the story which is a warning to other potential buyers.
Indeed. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2018 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching. For more about what to buy used see my recent video: th-cam.com/video/JSo5n2B62MA/w-d-xo.html
I drive truck for over 40 years. Went to buy a big toy hauler and noticed the dismal weight rating. I bought an auto hauler and converted it to a toy hauler. A 9:17 fter all said and done I can load up 6500 and still be under weight and capacity and all axles. I carry a Terex 4. SXS. 2 lecrtic bikes. A Kawasaki Concours, a 16 foot Raft with 20hp 4 stroke. 2 SUPs And two Kayaks plus 1000 in camera gear. Nothing in the truck. We sleep in that while traveling. TH-cam Cargo conversions. Don't buy this crap. I'm under 20k on the build out sleeps 6. ROOFTOP tent with a sleep number bed. Top that. 😅
It seems that most of these toy haulers are at the weight limit without even putting paper plates in the cupboard
For the last 4 or so years, the TH-cam people as a majority all purchased GDs. We did not because we did not like the floor plans. GD are not the only ones.
Contact the NTSB!!
Based on this story, I've decided not to spend my hard earned money to buy a new Winnebago Navion. I will look for a company who gives a "hard Yes" to their customers.
Thank you for helping this couple tell their story!
Indeed! I don't blame you one bit. Thanks for watching, Ivan, and happy RV shopping.
The problem is you're making the assumption that they actually CARE about you or your SAFETY or the END RESULT of the product. They don't! Not a bit!
It's ALL about making a PROFIT...it's about the MONEY...period.
Thats it. The only way to expect a change is if people began caring about people again & having integrity...and that will never ever occur. We're living in the 2Timothy 3:1-9 days, and things will continue to go down hill since people took it.
You Rock Liz . Always on the side of the consumer . Enjoy your weekend .Char🐼
Thanks so much, Char, same to you!
I do not presently own a trailer or 5th wheel but have owned 8 RV’s and a slide in over a 40 year period so here’s my opinion . We presently own a 2022 class A Winnebago. I’ve had it three years and 36,000 miles. We had some problems and took it to the FACTORY twice. I was very detailed in my emails and Winnebago stepped up to fix a few issues even after the warranty expired. I suggest folks try to work with the factory to resolve major issues if they can.
40 years in the heavy construction industry , and I am an engineer and know a bit about steel and welded construction.
I’ve seen RVs get BIGGER, HEAVIER , and us requiring more amenities over time.
I think the industry is using the same grade steel but is using the minimum thicknesses possible to save weight . And Inexperienced welders will definitely impact your rig as well and result in stress cracks.
A friend has a Grand Design, larger bumper pull. We were noticing some unusual tire wear, checked his loading and axle models and found the CCC rating was extremely LOW for both. Too low for a trailer this size to be effectively used.
In addition to poorer quality control and skimping on effective construction to save weight, the industry does little to inform the buyer how much or little these Rv’s can handle. Overloading by owners is common, not because they want to, but because once you load your necessities in these rigs you might very well be overloaded and stressing the frame or axles, unintentionally causing some of the problems. But not all.
We learned the hard way. Our previous rig had frame damage after we loaded way more than the capacity.
There is so much to learn about our rigs and channels like this are very helpful in educating folks what this is all about.
Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing this, eye opening for sure.
Liz...never give up or in !! Blessings ❤❤❤❤
Thanks so much, Steve! Have a great weekend!
First, I feel for anyone having this issue. For our new purchase. This is exactly why we put a cap on Fifth Wheel Length, No Drop Frames, use a mid frame. We sold our two motorcycles, my wife did not want to sell her RE GT 535 nor myself my WideGlide. Like many a toy hauler is not ever happening.
We settled on our mid frame Brinkley Z3100 and are full time. Like all RV’s even Brinkley has the little issues. But cannot agree with this video enough, do your research. And…. Just stay away from the big drop frame fifth wheels
You are really helping this industry
What a bigger travesty here is the kind of coin that people have to shell out for these damn things! I mean, come on!what the hell ? You’re getting this much quality problems and I’m sure there are numerous issues, then what is the point? I have an 1983 Lance Model 700, 11 1/2 foot slide in camper. It has had zero issues since it was manufactured and resides on the back of my 1972 Chevrolet pickup. Something obviously has fallen apart in the manufacturing industry that I worked in when I was younger, so sorry for these folks. I sure hope that they get resolved.
We own a 21 Grand Design Solitude 346FLS, we love it! We do get it checked yearly before we hit the road!
Whew! I found it interesting that their frame passed the measurement test, but then still had a broken frame in several places. If you have any of the signs: squeaky floors, doors that won't close or stay closed, things out of line, then do take it in and insist they peal off the filon and look under the pin box. That said, glad that everything is well with yours! Thanks for watching.
Insane you need to really have to do that.
Go old.. why.. they don't build them like they used too.. we have a 24 yr old 41 ft diesel pusher., we wouldn't trade her for anything.. we have had 1 older bumper pull..upgraded to a new one.. 3 months later we upgraded again to a new 40 ft fifth wheel toyhauler.. all I can say.. is the manufacturer had it more than we did.. got all the issues corrected and traded a $65,000 rig for our pusher.. we will never buy a new rig ever again.. and this was all before the Covid Campers.. save yourself headaches and buy old.. we couldn't be happier.. and we aren't retired.. so that throws ppl off..2 younger adults hopping out of an older pusher..but she was a 2 owner rig kept inside with only 60,000 miles.. and very well kept.. so she looks newer. .we are in our 40s and have had ours for 6 yrs.. ohh did I mention we are from Indiana..if that tells you anything
WE ❤ OUR BUS