I'm shocked that Cleric Stance wasn't mentioned. Healer DPS was radically different back then due how you had to fully switch between whether you can heal or dps, and SCH was considered the better healer because Lustrate healed a flat 20% of the target's HP, getting around the healing penalty of Cleric Stance.
I've mentioned Cleric Stance so many times at this point that it felt too boring to do! Maybe if I end up doing another like this I will include it, for the culture
They do, 7.0 benchmark gives brd's dmg aoe back with that backflip model animation. While 5.0 brought back DRK Dark Passenger reformed as Shadowbringer attack, same model animation. Later in 6.x PLD got back Bulwark.
@@HyouVizerdark passenger animation is different to shadowbringer. They both look similar just because they're both line aoes. Dark passenger slams the sword down whereas shadowbringer thrusts the sword forward in a stabbing motion
"Hey Wesk, don't use Blood for Blood in your opener, if Alexander picks you, you die." "Okay." *changes nothing, doesn't die, mic drop* Phlebotomize has no place in the current rotation I feel, but god if I don't miss it anyway.
I miss hw drg, the play style was so fun. It's why I switched to reaper cause shadow of death reminds me of my dear beloved Heavy thrust 😭😭😭 Blood for blood during cruise chaser pyretic was also fun asf, hearing my healer yell at me Everytime I did my burst during that window was always hilarious
Speaking of Animations, Dark Knight had some of the *rawest* Animations in the game. The Power Slash animation, where you do a massive overhead swing then shoot out Darkness from your hand like it was a fucking shotgun blast, the big arc from Scourge, the way Dark Arts looked like it was about to rip you apart, the way Low Blow let you just kick a motherfucker, all gone like tears in rain and it makes me SO MAD
My favorite meme with old AST was Celestial Opposition extended all your *personal* buffs including food so by the end of the raid night I had used it enough times my raid food would still be up when everyone else's fell off.
Lol. That makes sense with lore too since it's sharlean astromancy, so they would find a way to not go hungry so they don't have to eat more archon bread.
@@Kazeryuun Except for launch Astrologian where there was a bug where it would set the duration on your food to 30 seconds instead so after one usage your food just disappeared and you had to refood. 🤣
@@marcelor.m4108 it’s an old action that uses up 20 sword gauge to power up your next weaponskill. its intended use is for it to be used before iaijutsu skills. the self heal was a followup action from the defensive move Third Eye, named Merciful Eyes. Back in Stormblood it also has a nifty use of reducing your aggro, as Stormblood was where aggro management was a party thing.
Speaking of Dragoon, I remember the good times where I'd just barely be killed by an AoE thanks to Blood for Blood, my selfish DPS buff increasing the amount of damage I took. Honestly, I liked the risk reward, especially since at the time, Dragoon was the only Maiming DPS and thus had a baseline higher physical defense. It felt fitting that that design aspect of the class. Also RIP Ring of Thorns, pole dancing Dragoon was funny.
The sects are fine,l in truth I am getting sick of re-works to healers every expansion, other classes really need them a lot more then people who are crying over RNG of buff cards.
I think Astro and Sage should both be versatile healers, capable of doing shields or pure healing. The bones for it already exist in Sage's kit and I'd get my godsdamned Nocturnal Sect back.
I found it really interesting to do the Squadron missions and just see all these alien animations the NPCs use as someone who started the game when Endwalker came out.
Funnily enough though endwalker brought BACK some of the things we never knew would be brought back, like PLD’s Bulwark and MCH’s Dismantle. Who would have seen THAT coming? Anyway if yalls want to see some sweet Heavensward actions, theres someone called Xanedia that has a video with level 60 HW actions (PvE only) up. It’s a great time capsule!
As someone who started in 2.1 as a DRG this was very nostalgic lol. That job had some weird things going on for it. Blood For Blood increased your damage dealt and taken which meant if you had weakness (or god forbid brink of death) using it made you even more likely to die again on top of the 25/50% reduced HP. Keen Flurry, as mentioned, was the only damage reduction we had. Jump would animation lock you for 5 years leading to an inevitable Titan EX death if used at the wrong time. Heavy Thrust was a thing you had to maintain on top of your Chaos Thrust DoT and Phlebotomize DoT. Power Surge was a 60s cooldown that buffed a single Jump or Spineshatter. I loved ARR but it gave a lot of things to juggle lol.
theyve fiddled with the animation lock problems on Jumps twice at least, once in SHB and once in EW, and we still see theyre a bit obnoxious with how they lock you in place. trying to play dragoon before these changes really must have been a miserable experience, lmao
Having to manage BotD in HW was different too, as gierskogul had like a 5 second cooldown but took about 10 seconds off BotD (also SE give us back out poledance ring of thorns)
I'm an ARR boomer too. Remember Fluid Aura? Remember Cleric Stance? Remember running into other healers in EX Trials who hadn't known they should level thaumaturge/black mage to pick up Swiftcast?
Part of me kind of wishes they would have a separate server where you get the play the expansions as they released back in the day. Something akin to wow classic. As someone who started the game with Endwalker. Hearing about all these old things fascinates me and makes me wish I could experience what people played back in the day.
The thing is... it would never be as good as people remember it to be, and it would be the source of ENDLESS complaining. Even Blizz backed off of making WoW classic "exactly the way it was," and now it's become its own sort of new-old hybrid game.
I started back in heavensward as bard and i still remember miserys end. It felt really good and lookef amazing. I still miss it. Rest in peace my good friend. 😢
I miss those. Weird doing archer class quest and seeking npcs fire ground aoe, what we could do back then. Shadowflare basically went to tanks as the slow debuff of arms length. But was cool to choose either sacred soil or shadowflare when dealing with mobs.
I was surprised to see you talk about tank stance but not aggro combos. Before we got shirk, aggro combos were the only way to reliably tank swap. Even when we got shirk in StB, sometimes it was on CD and you needed the aggro combo still. Like In Ucob without a ninja. Also it’s worth mentioning that holmgang wasn’t actually an invuln until patch 2.1. All it did was do the bind. And vengeance didn’t actually have mitigation attached to it until 2.1. It just had the reflect damage thing. Inner Beast was such a useful mitigation ability starting in 2.1. Deliverance had such an amazing animation. Inner Release was such an interesting ability at launch when it just halved gauge costs instead of making it free. WAR was the most difficult tank to optimize until the 4.2 rework sadly left it unrecognizable.
A skill I miss is Mana Shift. The first implementation of role actions was pretty different from what we have now. You still had a limited number of skills you could equip, and more skills than you could equip, so you had to pick and choose. Casters had spells like Drain and Break. But one skill I miss is Mana Shift. Which would sacrifice a portion of your MP bar to give to another party member. I remember loving this idea for jobs like Black Mage, who could conceivably sacrifice some MP to help a struggling healer, then go back to quick-recovering MP in ice mode. Mana Shift felt like a nice party support option.
Very interesting overall, many do seem to have pros and cons to them being within the game. It’s probably better overall that they don’t overly incentives playing specific jobs and let players play what they want, but then again enabling something unique for playing a specific job does sound. Ultimately the former may be better system overall to not force certain jobs being brought to a fight.
I started in 4.0, but there was a skill I looked up that WHM had in the past. Divine Seal. It boosted the healing potency of all the Job’s GCD skills. Think of it as a weaker Temperance. Wouldn’t mind if they brought this back as a weaker Temperance that just upgrades at level 80.
There's a ton of skills I want back purely for the cool factor but the ones that would genuinely be good for the game are buttons that were just pure fun. Mainly low HP executes (and kaiten). Sure, you only hit the button 2-3 times per fight and it made your rotation a little more hectic but they also really helped drum up hype. When you saw that button light up in the corner of your eye, you knew that the fight was coming to an end and after a long prog, there was literally no better feeling in the world.
A big one was the removal of enmity rotations for tanks. There used to be a separate 123 with increased aggro generation that dealt less damage than the main 123 combo. They were removed when tanks were streamlined and Tank Mastery was added.
Thanks for bringing back these memories! as someone that started in 2.3 i absolutely love this type of historical content. Please keep it up and add more things that got removed from the base game / previous expansions. You doing gods work of not making the same boring videos like 90% of the ff14 youtubers. Subbed!
Okay, it would be so nice if you could mention the music you used in the video… Especially from 3:21 … I could easily mistake it for a usual “Under the Weight” remix, but it has Hugo Kupka theme (who is also Titan in FFXVI) at 4:55 and I haven’t heard this exact mix before
I haven't even finished the video, but seeing the Deliverance button made me sigh wistfully. Also, seeing Holmgang's changelog made me feel super old. Not only do I still feel weird being able to move around while Holmgang is up, but also having those four extra seconds makes planning around when to invuln that much less consequential to me.
It's realtively minor in the grand scale of things, But Flash for PLD was great. A spammable AoE Taunt with built in blind? Yes please. And It was one of the skills you used to be able to pass around to other jobs, Which meant DRK and WAR had access to it aswell! (Along with every other job, IIRC.)
I started in Heavensward, and /oh god why did you have to point out that we're boomers/ Also, I could not agree more about the AST/Time Mage thing. I heard that Time Mage was originally planned as the caster for Stormblood, and that's why things like Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition were changed. Whether that's true or not (I personally think it ought to be taken with a grain of salt or three), I do think leaning further into AST's Time Mage vibes would be so so so good. Horoscope, Macrocosmos, Exaltation, and even Earthly Star already feel like Time Magic, and it's a big reason AST is my favorite healer. Hell, Gravity is even a staple of Time Magic spell lists throughout the series! Gimme Warp as an Icarus-style movement ability, spice up my DPS rotation with an extra DoT or two (Bleed/Sap from XII, perhaps?). If they're feeling absolutely insane, let me cast Reflect on one of my party members to spread single-target spells to the entire team!
I think for a follow-up video it'd be worthwhile to explain the cumbersome TP system and the various abilities and party comps that were required to prevent TP starvation in long raid fights. e.g. Invigorate cross-class from Lancer lvl 22, needing bards for Army's Paeon and/or ninjas for Goad in your static, or if you were cruel enough to give a Monk enhanced Arrow instead of a BLM then they would probably run out of TP even with TP buffs. Also, surprised Shadow Flare wasn't mentioned alongside Miasma II. The combination of so many offensive spells made SCH a DPS king in HW and SB.
i played all the way since right before heavenward came out but back then i didnt play regularly so i forgot a lot of the stuff we had back then, thanks for helping me remember some of them.
As an ARR veteran, one I was looking forward to hearing was Cleric Stance. Back before it was changed and then removed, it swapped your INT with your MND so your damage spells could actually do damage, but healing was vastly reduced. There was even a term used for it, and that was 'Stance Dance'. You'd mostly stay in damage stance, but dance back when you needed to heal someone/the party. It was especially useful with SCH, as they had the ACN class background. Their DoT's could actually do quite a bit of damage, and in full parties it was like you had 1 1/2 healers with 4 1/2 DPS. If used correctly, it was a fun and powerful ability. After it was changed in StB, it just did a base 5% damage buff for a few seconds and then it was removed upon ShB release.
Along with the tank stances, there was also Cleric stance to cross class from whitemage. The cleric dance was a key part of playing a healer in 2.0 and HW
You touched upon cross class skills but a ton of cross class skills had animations made to fit the job they were executed in. For example, Archer’s Venomous Bite DoT, while it is a series of two shots from a bow when done by Bard/Archer, was a series of quick slashes when done by a Rogue/Ninja (the sound effects however, were the same).
I miss the PLD shild counter. Whenever you blocked something with a PLD the skill proged and you could deal a bit more dmg. It was fun to optimize the AOEs you can stand in without angering the healer.
I remember when paladins could use protect, whenever a healer wanted to be petty or uncooperative a pld would cast protect to help the party I want it back. xD
Worth mentioning too, Misery's End (WAR Execute) and Haymaker were both crossclassable. Kind of fun popping featherfoot+haymaker/misery's end as a bard.
as mentioned in the video, Warrior's execute was Mercy Stroke. (And it was a cross class ability, and the jobs PLD, MNK, and DRG could utilize it) But you are correct that BRD could use featherfoot and haymaker from MNK and they did have Misery's End as an execute it was just a BRD specific execute
I never played it myself but there are also a lot of skills from 1.0 that were removed. Thaumaturge was focused around Banish and Scourge which were "Astral" and "Umbral" Element skills. Astral and Umbral were two elements that were removed from gameplay mechanics for 2.0 but kept for the lore, not like it mattered since the other 6 elements were made obsolete by the game design paradigm of having every job be able to clear every class.
My biggest memory associated with Flash was that because it could be used outside of combat, it would constantly be used in crowded areas because of its loud and distinctive whip sound effect. This made it extra effective for ERP purposes.
Never forget the fact Tank Mastery doesn't just give us the beneficial portion of the old Tank Stance (extra passive mitigation). It also gives us the negative. That's our hidden damage tax right there.
I really miss the AoE dots on healers, Aero III (was it III?) for White Mage was comfy and I don't get why it's gone, it made dotting enemies in dungeons quick and easy.
I miss Flaming Arrow and Wide Volley. Bard used to be great AOE and DoT job. The weird thing is, Wide Volley is one of those abilities that is still in the game. You can see NPCs and enemies use it.
Yeah, NPC skills are hardcoded and don't go away when PC skills change. You can also see plenty of old NPC conjurers casting Stoneskin, for another example. The most hilarious example to me is the Crystal Exarch using Break (an old skill that inflicted heavy) to stop an enemy from escaping in a story-critical cutscene... in the same patch that removed Break from players.
When talking about PLD, you forgot to mention that they could cross class Raise from CNJ. But, they could only do it out of combat. But there's still tons more abilities and that would be a whole ass movie of a video to fit them.
I'm having melancholia about a time I wasn't even part of the game... I've started really playing in 2020, a bit after 5.3 released, and only started getting to know all the jobs in Endwalker Being the curious player that I am, I'm alway watching videos and threads about how the game was prior to when I started. And I'm getting to a point where I miss how the game was years ago, before I even knew about it
I honestly miss the old tank stances. Started playing in SB (early WoW refugee) as a PLD and I loved having to actually think about what stance you were going to use.
A fun interaction (Im unsure if a further down comment mentioned it but Im not scrolling through them to see lmao) with Paladins Tempered Will and Cover. The effects of Tempered Will would be transferred to the Cover target. This had some really neat uses in some fights. Like the Phantom Train Savage. You could Cover and Tempered Will your co tank and both of you could dodge the knockback mechanic in a part of the fight. It was really cool
I started during the last six months of Stormblood as a healer, I was there for casting Protect at the start of every duty and I was delighted to watch it be removed.
Give me back my Kaiten. It was something to spend gauge on that wasn't a 1 minute attack or a super spammable snoozefest (shinten). I actually enjoyed using it, Samurai's just not as fun without it. Heck, bring it back as an automatic direct crit skill if they wanna lower crit variance.
I would love for them to reintroduce Scholar's Aetherflow Stack CD reduction every time a OGCD healing skill is used. It was a 15 second reduction on the counter. Does anyone else remember that? It was introduced in Stormblood and made healing as a Scholar feel so much more fluid... Aetherfluid.
I'd personally like to see more situational abilities be brought back, I feel that having the same rotations without thinking as much has made us a little lazy in some aspects
This is soo oddly nostalgic~ I had completely forgotten that No Mercy was a thing. Which, fair, you only got to use it maybe twice at the end of an encounter, but still lol Another bard ability i miss is Wide Volley- just for the backflip animation. And our songs, Foe's req, refresh and tactician ~
I still think the 3.0 Darkside animation looks way cooler than what they replaced it with because people said it looked like the character was reeking. Also never forget THE POLEDANCE
BRD's Repelling Shot and WHM's Fluid Aura (RIP) both doing damage. I played ARR as bard, still remember running into to drop off a Repelling Shot. Also Scholar's having to do the poison dungeon without a cleanse (Leeches) because it was a level 40 skill and the dungeon (Toto-Rak) was level sync'd to 27. At least fairy heals were OP back then.
Didnt think this was gonna be on the list since it was a 1.0 skill--Punishing Barbs. The spell redirected damage back to the enemy. Not sure what the exact % was but it nearly redirected 100% of the damage back.
As someone who started a few months before endwalker I love seeing the origin of some of the PvP skill, like the holmgang which attracts. I think it's a very interesting topic, as the biggest change I've been through was kaiten and the PvP rework
Great video! You could do whole videos just on individual job changes - the abilities changed or removed from jobs like monk and dark knight would be massive, lol
Ultimatum was great for the O12S tank LB cheese and the ability that tanks could take that increased their defense by 20% for 20 seconds on a 60 second CD was nice also. Wasn't as good as other role actions but when they let us take 10 of them we had no reason to ignore it
I was hardcore in pvp in the very first season of feast and honestly i think thats a reason why alot of old niche abilities got removed machinist used to be a menace
I started in late Shadowbringers, around patch 5.55. Either I'm still in the womb, or I got a quick birth. Now, I'm a mentor and have defeated Endwalker 8-man savage raids.
I’d enjoy seeing more of the removed actions from you. Your voice just makes it significantly more intriguing to listen to (Yes, it IS because of your accent. Not making fun of it, it’s just smooth on the ears).
I remember bard having 2 gcd aoe abilities, ones a cone the other was a circle but out of the two they kept the cone but the animation for the circle was much better you just doing backflips ^^
Wide Volley on BRD used to be my favorite looking attack. We'd back flip, and rain down purple arrows. I think there is an enemy in the game that still has the animation...
I remember we had our Dragoon use Keen Flurry when they were targeted by the random multi-hit missiles in A1S, and that's my only recollection of Keen Flurry. There's an even deeper rabbit hole of skill changes that would surprise people -- remember when Warden's Paean was a full 2.5-second cast? And YoshiP dead serious insisted that their testing team found it to be very powerful in that form, so it stayed that way for all of 3.0 and 3.1. Then when it was changed to its current form in 3.2, it was reserved for the Warrior because Berserk used to pacify you o.o
One Ilm Punch is a meme I'll never forget, and I'll also never forget Purification, aaah the good times when I got slapped with an arrow or got shirked and I shit myself slamming that beautiful button to try and not die. :'D
I miss Dark Arts. Just the effect and sound made it awesome. Edit. For those who don't know, Dark Arts was a skill for Dark Knight's that buffed their next skill. Usually just more damage. Or more effects (one did a blind).
I miss using dark arts to become an evasion tank. Dump all your mana on dark arts paired with dark dance and dark messenger. Blind + evasion buff and some parry in case something did hit. So many healers getting confused on why I suddenly stopped taking any damage was hilarious
back when drk actually had to do mp management, also darkside its dps stance would drain your mp and not even brd mages ballad could regen it. Now drk managment is saving 3k mp for tbn meh
@@HyouVizer pretty sure Darkside prevented all passive MP regen. So, only skills like "siphon strike" and "Carve and Split" can recover your mp. Then again, I didn't play DRK when it came out. Only late HWs.
I miss Foe's Requiem. It was another skill that was able to be used in different ways. Bard would activate it, and it would cause foes to receive more damage while it was up. But the time it was up was tied to MP. It would drain mp over time while active and would turn off when you ran out of MP, or when you manually turned it off. It became a fun balance between keeping it active, and making sure you had enough mp. You could activate it for short bursts, or leave it on to keep the buff active for a while. You could even use mp potions to extend the time as well. I was hoping Radiant Finale would scratch that itch for me with being able to activate it with one coda or three to either have it active a lot, or less with more of a buff, but the cooldown timer basically restricts it to only ever being 3 coda unless you die, or use it early at the start.
i played when 2.0 released and there was some wierd stuff about warrior, it had very little defence and was supposed to have lifesteal, but the bloodbath skill had a very long cooldown which just made it not work. Also, Overpower was not only a cone back then, but it had a 3 second long wind up before the attack gets out. You can see enemies still do this long version in Sastasha.
I miss most of SCH gameplay from Stormblood ( exept the fact pets had HP and the summon was a 6s cast ). Its relation between damage and mitigation was so interesting. The fact that your mana regen abilities wasn't tied to Aetherflow but to Energy Drain, and the fact you could propagate your DoTs in AoE situtations. And I miss Shadow Flare so much. It was so cool to be able to drop a DoT AoE like Doton but who made you unable to use Sacred Soil for 15s. I could go on a rant about how dull the job feel since Shadowbringers ahah.
if starting in shadowbringers is being in the womb. then brother, i'm a concept. FLOATING IN THE AETHER
I'm a pandemonium creature, still undergoing revisions
@@pedroscoponi4905 That's such an apt analogy. The devs are the equivalent to ancient researchers.
Or you're a sperm/egg LOL
Only been playing since September lol
I started slightly before Shadowbringers so I guess I'm a newborn, lul.
I'm shocked that Cleric Stance wasn't mentioned. Healer DPS was radically different back then due how you had to fully switch between whether you can heal or dps, and SCH was considered the better healer because Lustrate healed a flat 20% of the target's HP, getting around the healing penalty of Cleric Stance.
I've mentioned Cleric Stance so many times at this point that it felt too boring to do! Maybe if I end up doing another like this I will include it, for the culture
they should at least get the animations back. i would love to see a system in the game where you can openly change some animations
Would be really cool
If only there was a way ;)
They do, 7.0 benchmark gives brd's dmg aoe back with that backflip model animation.
While 5.0 brought back DRK Dark Passenger reformed as Shadowbringer attack, same model animation.
Later in 6.x PLD got back Bulwark.
@@HyouVizerdark passenger animation is different to shadowbringer. They both look similar just because they're both line aoes. Dark passenger slams the sword down whereas shadowbringer thrusts the sword forward in a stabbing motion
I miss White Mage's Aero III animation so much...
I love when he talks about “Heavensward babies” cause I am still progressing through the main story lol. I began playing in earnest a few months ago
I'm old and decrepit
"Hey Wesk, don't use Blood for Blood in your opener, if Alexander picks you, you die."
"Okay."
*changes nothing, doesn't die, mic drop*
Phlebotomize has no place in the current rotation I feel, but god if I don't miss it anyway.
Reaper death door debuff is quite literally that oddly enough
@@HyouVizer Not at all. It's more akin to Heavy Thrust. Phleb was a DoT you'd do after Chaos Combo
@@WeskAlber oh shit, gods its been that long i havent truly remembered.
Wait, are you Wesk off Midgardsormr?
I miss hw drg, the play style was so fun. It's why I switched to reaper cause shadow of death reminds me of my dear beloved Heavy thrust 😭😭😭
Blood for blood during cruise chaser pyretic was also fun asf, hearing my healer yell at me Everytime I did my burst during that window was always hilarious
Speaking of Animations, Dark Knight had some of the *rawest* Animations in the game. The Power Slash animation, where you do a massive overhead swing then shoot out Darkness from your hand like it was a fucking shotgun blast, the big arc from Scourge, the way Dark Arts looked like it was about to rip you apart, the way Low Blow let you just kick a motherfucker, all gone like tears in rain and it makes me SO MAD
Low Blow is still in the game.
i cry every time
Old Delirium is now the tank interrupt. It’s just not the same…
Darknight used to have dark passenger that they took out now brought back as shadowbringer.
@@jamsrjpnah the animation does not seem to be the same
My favorite meme with old AST was Celestial Opposition extended all your *personal* buffs including food so by the end of the raid night I had used it enough times my raid food would still be up when everyone else's fell off.
haha that's amazing
An Astrologian would never go hungry 💅🃏✨️
Is that why Urianger is so skinny?
Lol. That makes sense with lore too since it's sharlean astromancy, so they would find a way to not go hungry so they don't have to eat more archon bread.
@@Kazeryuun Except for launch Astrologian where there was a bug where it would set the duration on your food to 30 seconds instead so after one usage your food just disappeared and you had to refood. 🤣
Never forget Kaiten. Still on my hotbar. -sniff-
Kaiten will never leave my hotbar too.
i played a little of samurai, is that skill that heals by using your gauge bar?
@@marcelor.m4108 it’s an old action that uses up 20 sword gauge to power up your next weaponskill. its intended use is for it to be used before iaijutsu skills.
the self heal was a followup action from the defensive move Third Eye, named Merciful Eyes. Back in Stormblood it also has a nifty use of reducing your aggro, as Stormblood was where aggro management was a party thing.
Speaking of Dragoon, I remember the good times where I'd just barely be killed by an AoE thanks to Blood for Blood, my selfish DPS buff increasing the amount of damage I took. Honestly, I liked the risk reward, especially since at the time, Dragoon was the only Maiming DPS and thus had a baseline higher physical defense. It felt fitting that that design aspect of the class.
Also RIP Ring of Thorns, pole dancing Dragoon was funny.
I sadly never witnessed Ring of Thorns except for videos from that time, but I am glad they gave us pole dancing 2.0 with Heavens' Thrust at least 😩
@@Amariyali Hang out by Falcon's Nest until a certain FATE spawns, and then pull on a low DPS job. Alaimbert of the Spiked Butt uses it
I especially loved ring of thorns since it didn't require a target, so you would just have crowds of dragoons just spamming ring of thorns in cities.
@@Amariyalithe guard in gnb job quest also does it
now we do have the semipole dance heavens thrust!
I know the astro sects weren’t great but i just love the flexibility of both shields and regens they gave
Big agree. Just the option was nice, imagine if it got balanced and fleshed out ;w;
They still do, just the shield heal part is a small duration, and still very powerful.
The sects are fine,l in truth I am getting sick of re-works to healers every expansion, other classes really need them a lot more then people who are crying over RNG of buff cards.
I think Astro and Sage should both be versatile healers, capable of doing shields or pure healing. The bones for it already exist in Sage's kit and I'd get my godsdamned Nocturnal Sect back.
"flexibility"
Jesus if they were flexibile they wouldnt have been removed.
I found it really interesting to do the Squadron missions and just see all these alien animations the NPCs use as someone who started the game when Endwalker came out.
not the acn squadron member using gcd shadowflare repeatedly like theyre afraid uncle yoship is gonna take it off of them next!
Funnily enough though endwalker brought BACK some of the things we never knew would be brought back, like PLD’s Bulwark and MCH’s Dismantle. Who would have seen THAT coming?
Anyway if yalls want to see some sweet Heavensward actions, theres someone called Xanedia that has a video with level 60 HW actions (PvE only) up. It’s a great time capsule!
One thing i really don't miss is having everyone sit at the beginning of dungeons to wait for protect...
When they introduced healer damage reduction skills I expected whm to be protect but instead got aquaveil very sad
I thought Protect was AoE (unless that changed in Stormblood) and Stoneskin was the single target
@@neo-sen Stoneskin was single target, Stoneskin II was party-wide but could only be used outside of combat and had to be applied before a pull.
As someone who started in 2.1 as a DRG this was very nostalgic lol. That job had some weird things going on for it. Blood For Blood increased your damage dealt and taken which meant if you had weakness (or god forbid brink of death) using it made you even more likely to die again on top of the 25/50% reduced HP. Keen Flurry, as mentioned, was the only damage reduction we had. Jump would animation lock you for 5 years leading to an inevitable Titan EX death if used at the wrong time. Heavy Thrust was a thing you had to maintain on top of your Chaos Thrust DoT and Phlebotomize DoT. Power Surge was a 60s cooldown that buffed a single Jump or Spineshatter. I loved ARR but it gave a lot of things to juggle lol.
I started in 2.2 as ARC and in the process of getting my job stone became a DRG main for life, very nostalgic indeed :)
nice history lesson, I just know about Ring of Thorns when it comes to old ffxiv
theyve fiddled with the animation lock problems on Jumps twice at least, once in SHB and once in EW, and we still see theyre a bit obnoxious with how they lock you in place. trying to play dragoon before these changes really must have been a miserable experience, lmao
@@steveh1474 you could totally get a feel for it, but you couldn't double weave like you can now with it
Having to manage BotD in HW was different too, as gierskogul had like a 5 second cooldown but took about 10 seconds off BotD (also SE give us back out poledance ring of thorns)
Don’t worry kaiten is coming back my uncle works at square enix he said so
I'm an ARR boomer too. Remember Fluid Aura? Remember Cleric Stance? Remember running into other healers in EX Trials who hadn't known they should level thaumaturge/black mage to pick up Swiftcast?
remember pushing manipulator back with fluid aura at the start of heavensward? good times
@@RinBanana Oh, do I! And you could use FA to knock the adds back in A3S to buy more time to kill them too. Or the golems in T9...
Remember Protect?
@@DeadSpaceWing Remember finally getting Stoneskin 2
Part of me kind of wishes they would have a separate server where you get the play the expansions as they released back in the day. Something akin to wow classic. As someone who started the game with Endwalker. Hearing about all these old things fascinates me and makes me wish I could experience what people played back in the day.
"Nightmare"
-Yoshi P when asked about ff14 classic
The thing is... it would never be as good as people remember it to be, and it would be the source of ENDLESS complaining.
Even Blizz backed off of making WoW classic "exactly the way it was," and now it's become its own sort of new-old hybrid game.
You think you do, but you don’t.
I'm still mourning the loss of Shadowflare and Miasma II (all DoTs, really) on Summoner 😭💔
Same pepehands
I started back in heavensward as bard and i still remember miserys end. It felt really good and lookef amazing. I still miss it. Rest in peace my good friend. 😢
Flame Arrow and Shadowflare were still on my hotbar when I turned hotbar sharing off. Darkside too actually.
I miss those. Weird doing archer class quest and seeking npcs fire ground aoe, what we could do back then.
Shadowflare basically went to tanks as the slow debuff of arms length. But was cool to choose either sacred soil or shadowflare when dealing with mobs.
wouldn't be a rinon video without miasma 2 at this point
miasma 2
I was surprised to see you talk about tank stance but not aggro combos. Before we got shirk, aggro combos were the only way to reliably tank swap. Even when we got shirk in StB, sometimes it was on CD and you needed the aggro combo still. Like In Ucob without a ninja. Also it’s worth mentioning that holmgang wasn’t actually an invuln until patch 2.1. All it did was do the bind. And vengeance didn’t actually have mitigation attached to it until 2.1. It just had the reflect damage thing. Inner Beast was such a useful mitigation ability starting in 2.1. Deliverance had such an amazing animation. Inner Release was such an interesting ability at launch when it just halved gauge costs instead of making it free. WAR was the most difficult tank to optimize until the 4.2 rework sadly left it unrecognizable.
A skill I miss is Mana Shift. The first implementation of role actions was pretty different from what we have now. You still had a limited number of skills you could equip, and more skills than you could equip, so you had to pick and choose.
Casters had spells like Drain and Break. But one skill I miss is Mana Shift. Which would sacrifice a portion of your MP bar to give to another party member. I remember loving this idea for jobs like Black Mage, who could conceivably sacrifice some MP to help a struggling healer, then go back to quick-recovering MP in ice mode. Mana Shift felt like a nice party support option.
I miss mana shift a lot too, honestly I was sad that a lot of stormblood's DPS utility options got binned
I would love to see you cover Dancing Edge, Kiss of the Wasp, Kiss of the Viper (All 3 Ninja Skills), MANA SHIFT and Apocatastasis BLM.
Very interesting overall, many do seem to have pros and cons to them being within the game. It’s probably better overall that they don’t overly incentives playing specific jobs and let players play what they want, but then again enabling something unique for playing a specific job does sound. Ultimately the former may be better system overall to not force certain jobs being brought to a fight.
I started in 4.0, but there was a skill I looked up that WHM had in the past.
Divine Seal. It boosted the healing potency of all the Job’s GCD skills. Think of it as a weaker Temperance. Wouldn’t mind if they brought this back as a weaker Temperance that just upgrades at level 80.
Indeed, it also become universal healer skill too so sch and ast could use it.
There's a ton of skills I want back purely for the cool factor but the ones that would genuinely be good for the game are buttons that were just pure fun. Mainly low HP executes (and kaiten). Sure, you only hit the button 2-3 times per fight and it made your rotation a little more hectic but they also really helped drum up hype. When you saw that button light up in the corner of your eye, you knew that the fight was coming to an end and after a long prog, there was literally no better feeling in the world.
A big one was the removal of enmity rotations for tanks. There used to be a separate 123 with increased aggro generation that dealt less damage than the main 123 combo. They were removed when tanks were streamlined and Tank Mastery was added.
AMAZING VIDEO! As a new player (Started at Endwalker) hearing all the old and removed skills is FACINATING
Thanks for bringing back these memories! as someone that started in 2.3 i absolutely love this type of historical content. Please keep it up and add more things that got removed from the base game / previous expansions. You doing gods work of not making the same boring videos like 90% of the ff14 youtubers. Subbed!
Okay, it would be so nice if you could mention the music you used in the video… Especially from 3:21 … I could easily mistake it for a usual “Under the Weight” remix, but it has Hugo Kupka theme (who is also Titan in FFXVI) at 4:55 and I haven’t heard this exact mix before
i just realised that the blur is on the no no meter. For like dozen videos I thought it was chat
Some of the videos I used as sources I could find one without the no no meter unfortunately
I haven't even finished the video, but seeing the Deliverance button made me sigh wistfully.
Also, seeing Holmgang's changelog made me feel super old. Not only do I still feel weird being able to move around while Holmgang is up, but also having those four extra seconds makes planning around when to invuln that much less consequential to me.
Cant forget when tanks also had an aggro gen combo and a dps combo
It's realtively minor in the grand scale of things, But Flash for PLD was great. A spammable AoE Taunt with built in blind? Yes please. And It was one of the skills you used to be able to pass around to other jobs, Which meant DRK and WAR had access to it aswell! (Along with every other job, IIRC.)
I started in Heavensward, and /oh god why did you have to point out that we're boomers/
Also, I could not agree more about the AST/Time Mage thing. I heard that Time Mage was originally planned as the caster for Stormblood, and that's why things like Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition were changed. Whether that's true or not (I personally think it ought to be taken with a grain of salt or three), I do think leaning further into AST's Time Mage vibes would be so so so good. Horoscope, Macrocosmos, Exaltation, and even Earthly Star already feel like Time Magic, and it's a big reason AST is my favorite healer. Hell, Gravity is even a staple of Time Magic spell lists throughout the series!
Gimme Warp as an Icarus-style movement ability, spice up my DPS rotation with an extra DoT or two (Bleed/Sap from XII, perhaps?). If they're feeling absolutely insane, let me cast Reflect on one of my party members to spread single-target spells to the entire team!
I think for a follow-up video it'd be worthwhile to explain the cumbersome TP system and the various abilities and party comps that were required to prevent TP starvation in long raid fights.
e.g. Invigorate cross-class from Lancer lvl 22, needing bards for Army's Paeon and/or ninjas for Goad in your static, or if you were cruel enough to give a Monk enhanced Arrow instead of a BLM then they would probably run out of TP even with TP buffs.
Also, surprised Shadow Flare wasn't mentioned alongside Miasma II. The combination of so many offensive spells made SCH a DPS king in HW and SB.
i played all the way since right before heavenward came out but back then i didnt play regularly so i forgot a lot of the stuff we had back then, thanks for helping me remember some of them.
As an ARR veteran, one I was looking forward to hearing was Cleric Stance. Back before it was changed and then removed, it swapped your INT with your MND so your damage spells could actually do damage, but healing was vastly reduced. There was even a term used for it, and that was 'Stance Dance'. You'd mostly stay in damage stance, but dance back when you needed to heal someone/the party. It was especially useful with SCH, as they had the ACN class background. Their DoT's could actually do quite a bit of damage, and in full parties it was like you had 1 1/2 healers with 4 1/2 DPS. If used correctly, it was a fun and powerful ability. After it was changed in StB, it just did a base 5% damage buff for a few seconds and then it was removed upon ShB release.
The explanation of old Astro w/ Kurugane music in the background really brought me back! I still miss Heavensward/Stormblood Astro to this day.
Along with the tank stances, there was also Cleric stance to cross class from whitemage. The cleric dance was a key part of playing a healer in 2.0 and HW
Well ship, I guess I'm not even conceived yet, 1 month old player here
I would very much like to see more of this stuff, it’s really fascinating, plz and ty
You touched upon cross class skills but a ton of cross class skills had animations made to fit the job they were executed in. For example, Archer’s Venomous Bite DoT, while it is a series of two shots from a bow when done by Bard/Archer, was a series of quick slashes when done by a Rogue/Ninja (the sound effects however, were the same).
I miss the PLD shild counter.
Whenever you blocked something with a PLD the skill proged and you could deal a bit more dmg.
It was fun to optimize the AOEs you can stand in without angering the healer.
I remember when paladins could use protect, whenever a healer wanted to be petty or uncooperative a pld would cast protect to help the party I want it back. xD
what's that hotbar at 3:15, above the XHB? is that just the XWHB for controllers? how do i get it neat and tidy like that lol
Go to HUD Layout in settings and set any hotbar there.
Helps with keeping track of cooldowns, pots, etc.
Not the ability itself, but the animation for the end aggro combo for Dark Knight was always so cool, plus their old Dark Arts
Worth mentioning too, Misery's End (WAR Execute) and Haymaker were both crossclassable. Kind of fun popping featherfoot+haymaker/misery's end as a bard.
as mentioned in the video, Warrior's execute was Mercy Stroke. (And it was a cross class ability, and the jobs PLD, MNK, and DRG could utilize it)
But you are correct that BRD could use featherfoot and haymaker from MNK and they did have Misery's End as an execute it was just a BRD specific execute
@@JunglingFist Yeah, I dunno why I swapped mercy stroke/misery's end in my head when making the comment, whoops. Two words and start with M, I guess.
I often gaze longingly into the distance; remembering what Yoshi P took swat from my SCH kit.
RIP DoTs, Cleric Stance, and Selene. . .
Dark Knight shooting darkness out of his hand was THE coolest animation
Bio, Bio II, Aero, Thunder, Miasma, Miasma II, Shadowflare.
Never forget what they took from us.
I never played it myself but there are also a lot of skills from 1.0 that were removed. Thaumaturge was focused around Banish and Scourge which were "Astral" and "Umbral" Element skills. Astral and Umbral were two elements that were removed from gameplay mechanics for 2.0 but kept for the lore, not like it mattered since the other 6 elements were made obsolete by the game design paradigm of having every job be able to clear every class.
My biggest memory associated with Flash was that because it could be used outside of combat, it would constantly be used in crowded areas because of its loud and distinctive whip sound effect. This made it extra effective for ERP purposes.
Never forget the fact Tank Mastery doesn't just give us the beneficial portion of the old Tank Stance (extra passive mitigation). It also gives us the negative. That's our hidden damage tax right there.
Pain
Monks out here holding old Fire, Wind and Earth moves and crying out, seeing their shoulder tackles now being shoulder tickles
I really miss the AoE dots on healers, Aero III (was it III?) for White Mage was comfy and I don't get why it's gone, it made dotting enemies in dungeons quick and easy.
I miss Flaming Arrow and Wide Volley. Bard used to be great AOE and DoT job. The weird thing is, Wide Volley is one of those abilities that is still in the game. You can see NPCs and enemies use it.
Yeah, NPC skills are hardcoded and don't go away when PC skills change. You can also see plenty of old NPC conjurers casting Stoneskin, for another example.
The most hilarious example to me is the Crystal Exarch using Break (an old skill that inflicted heavy) to stop an enemy from escaping in a story-critical cutscene... in the same patch that removed Break from players.
When talking about PLD, you forgot to mention that they could cross class Raise from CNJ. But, they could only do it out of combat. But there's still tons more abilities and that would be a whole ass movie of a video to fit them.
I'm having melancholia about a time I wasn't even part of the game...
I've started really playing in 2020, a bit after 5.3 released, and only started getting to know all the jobs in Endwalker
Being the curious player that I am, I'm alway watching videos and threads about how the game was prior to when I started. And I'm getting to a point where I miss how the game was years ago, before I even knew about it
I honestly miss the old tank stances. Started playing in SB (early WoW refugee) as a PLD and I loved having to actually think about what stance you were going to use.
A fun interaction (Im unsure if a further down comment mentioned it but Im not scrolling through them to see lmao) with Paladins Tempered Will and Cover. The effects of Tempered Will would be transferred to the Cover target. This had some really neat uses in some fights. Like the Phantom Train Savage. You could Cover and Tempered Will your co tank and both of you could dodge the knockback mechanic in a part of the fight. It was really cool
I started during the last six months of Stormblood as a healer, I was there for casting Protect at the start of every duty and I was delighted to watch it be removed.
Give me back my Kaiten. It was something to spend gauge on that wasn't a 1 minute attack or a super spammable snoozefest (shinten). I actually enjoyed using it, Samurai's just not as fun without it. Heck, bring it back as an automatic direct crit skill if they wanna lower crit variance.
Machinist: KA-THCINK! *Sounds of metal hitting the floor*
I would love for them to reintroduce Scholar's Aetherflow Stack CD reduction every time a OGCD healing skill is used. It was a 15 second reduction on the counter. Does anyone else remember that? It was introduced in Stormblood and made healing as a Scholar feel so much more fluid... Aetherfluid.
Being a legacy player this video makes me feel VERY seen. Ty good sir.
I'd personally like to see more situational abilities be brought back, I feel that having the same rotations without thinking as much has made us a little lazy in some aspects
*insert thor launching cup at the floor* ANOTHER
This is soo oddly nostalgic~
I had completely forgotten that No Mercy was a thing. Which, fair, you only got to use it maybe twice at the end of an encounter, but still lol
Another bard ability i miss is Wide Volley- just for the backflip animation. And our songs, Foe's req, refresh and tactician ~
I'm an Endwalker gamete, so I would appreciate any and all insights into stuff from before my time.
I still think the 3.0 Darkside animation looks way cooler than what they replaced it with because people said it looked like the character was reeking.
Also never forget THE POLEDANCE
BRD's Repelling Shot and WHM's Fluid Aura (RIP) both doing damage. I played ARR as bard, still remember running into to drop off a Repelling Shot.
Also Scholar's having to do the poison dungeon without a cleanse (Leeches) because it was a level 40 skill and the dungeon (Toto-Rak) was level sync'd to 27. At least fairy heals were OP back then.
If you do another video on this you could have an entire 20 minute section on SMN alone lol
My boy hahah
Pre-Heavensward here, i joined the game just before "Before the Fall" happend
I saw the collective outcry over that MSQ quest firsthand
Didnt think this was gonna be on the list since it was a 1.0 skill--Punishing Barbs. The spell redirected damage back to the enemy. Not sure what the exact % was but it nearly redirected 100% of the damage back.
Praying that Dawntrail's possible focus on more field gameplay modes brings these skills back like Bozja's optional abilities
please do another!! This was a fun video to watch :)
As someone who started a few months before endwalker I love seeing the origin of some of the PvP skill, like the holmgang which attracts. I think it's a very interesting topic, as the biggest change I've been through was kaiten and the PvP rework
remember when having a drg was almost mandatory bc they had the piercing buff that buffed bards and mch dmg output
Great video! You could do whole videos just on individual job changes - the abilities changed or removed from jobs like monk and dark knight would be massive, lol
Ultimatum was great for the O12S tank LB cheese and the ability that tanks could take that increased their defense by 20% for 20 seconds on a 60 second CD was nice also. Wasn't as good as other role actions but when they let us take 10 of them we had no reason to ignore it
It's been years since SE took away my Power Slash and I'm still not over it. What a cool animation. 😩
I was hardcore in pvp in the very first season of feast and honestly i think thats a reason why alot of old niche abilities got removed machinist used to be a menace
I started in late Shadowbringers, around patch 5.55. Either I'm still in the womb, or I got a quick birth. Now, I'm a mentor and have defeated Endwalker 8-man savage raids.
I severely miss butcher’s block and would love to see it come back as a storm’s path upgrade
Butcher's block had the best animation
I’d enjoy seeing more of the removed actions from you. Your voice just makes it significantly more intriguing to listen to (Yes, it IS because of your accent. Not making fun of it, it’s just smooth on the ears).
I started a few months before WoD dropped. So much was different. No porting on mounts still feels like a fevered dream
I remember bard having 2 gcd aoe abilities, ones a cone the other was a circle but out of the two they kept the cone but the animation for the circle was much better you just doing backflips ^^
Wide Volley on BRD used to be my favorite looking attack. We'd back flip, and rain down purple arrows. I think there is an enemy in the game that still has the animation...
The talk on Scholar and EVERYTHING they did to my Faeries... My Misama 2... MY DOTS! BANE!!!!! (Finds a corner to cry into.)
RIP My homies Blood Price, Dark Arts and Power Slash
Shadow Flare. It was so interesting to decide if the mini slow on enemies in trash was enough mitigation vs sacred soil
I remember we had our Dragoon use Keen Flurry when they were targeted by the random multi-hit missiles in A1S, and that's my only recollection of Keen Flurry.
There's an even deeper rabbit hole of skill changes that would surprise people -- remember when Warden's Paean was a full 2.5-second cast? And YoshiP dead serious insisted that their testing team found it to be very powerful in that form, so it stayed that way for all of 3.0 and 3.1. Then when it was changed to its current form in 3.2, it was reserved for the Warrior because Berserk used to pacify you o.o
Oh Fists of Wind my beloved, how I miss thee...
One Ilm Punch is a meme I'll never forget, and I'll also never forget Purification, aaah the good times when I got slapped with an arrow or got shirked and I shit myself slamming that beautiful button to try and not die. :'D
I miss Dark Arts. Just the effect and sound made it awesome.
Edit. For those who don't know, Dark Arts was a skill for Dark Knight's that buffed their next skill. Usually just more damage. Or more effects (one did a blind).
I miss using dark arts to become an evasion tank. Dump all your mana on dark arts paired with dark dance and dark messenger. Blind + evasion buff and some parry in case something did hit. So many healers getting confused on why I suddenly stopped taking any damage was hilarious
back when drk actually had to do mp management, also darkside its dps stance would drain your mp and not even brd mages ballad could regen it. Now drk managment is saving 3k mp for tbn meh
@@HyouVizer pretty sure Darkside prevented all passive MP regen. So, only skills like "siphon strike" and "Carve and Split" can recover your mp.
Then again, I didn't play DRK when it came out. Only late HWs.
@@cygnusereve4779 yes, thats why i gave brd mage ballad mp regen as an example that it couldnt.
Shadowflare, Miasma, Miasma 2, Bio, Bio2, and Bane to spread the damage. That was truly the height of SCH gameplay.
I miss Foe's Requiem. It was another skill that was able to be used in different ways.
Bard would activate it, and it would cause foes to receive more damage while it was up. But the time it was up was tied to MP. It would drain mp over time while active and would turn off when you ran out of MP, or when you manually turned it off. It became a fun balance between keeping it active, and making sure you had enough mp. You could activate it for short bursts, or leave it on to keep the buff active for a while. You could even use mp potions to extend the time as well.
I was hoping Radiant Finale would scratch that itch for me with being able to activate it with one coda or three to either have it active a lot, or less with more of a buff, but the cooldown timer basically restricts it to only ever being 3 coda unless you die, or use it early at the start.
i played when 2.0 released and there was some wierd stuff about warrior, it had very little defence and was supposed to have lifesteal, but the bloodbath skill had a very long cooldown which just made it not work. Also, Overpower was not only a cone back then, but it had a 3 second long wind up before the attack gets out. You can see enemies still do this long version in Sastasha.
I miss most of SCH gameplay from Stormblood ( exept the fact pets had HP and the summon was a 6s cast ). Its relation between damage and mitigation was so interesting.
The fact that your mana regen abilities wasn't tied to Aetherflow but to Energy Drain, and the fact you could propagate your DoTs in AoE situtations.
And I miss Shadow Flare so much. It was so cool to be able to drop a DoT AoE like Doton but who made you unable to use Sacred Soil for 15s.
I could go on a rant about how dull the job feel since Shadowbringers ahah.
same, I could rant about DRK and AST too. Sb SCH was also peak SCH