Recording Vocals without Headphones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Update: The video refers to 'flipping phase' of the bleed (vocal) track. To better understand phase and phase relationship, please checkout the following video!!
• What is Phase in Music...
Have you ever had trouble getting a good vocal take while using headphones? As a very useful alternative, I take a look at how to record vocals without headphones, using a dynamic mic and studio monitors.
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i can't believe i didn't think of flipping polarity and recording with monitors. great idea!
Kinda works well, but sometimes there’s not much bleed depending on what mic is used
Very interesting method! I just recorded vocals yesterday (after many years, yep!) with a new pair of really tight headphones, and I heard very loudly and somewhat organically the very-low-end... and predominantly... which was distracting me from concentrating on delivering the right pitch (we don't hear the pitch very well in the lower-end)... I thought I needed to use the EQ to correct that, until I discovered it was physically resonating in my chest or in my upper-torso bones and it was heard mostly "bio-internally"... because of the tight headphones! So I searched YT today to find a confirmation of that problem and a solution. Your video confirmed the importance of hearing the actual direct room environment, and that is exactly what I have discovered yesterday! I'll first try with my cheap in-ear headphones that came with my old Samsung cellphone (so I can hear my voice more directly in/from the room), but if it's still not good, I'll try your "no-headphones" method! Thanks so much!
I can so identify with this. It’s so different for me singing and playing live compared to headphones in my music room. My intonation is just gone. I’m really interested to try some new approaches.
Certainly give it a try, experiment with play back level, let me know how you go!
i struggle in the studio but live i can do all sorts,i guess its mostly as live its "one shot" and using that mentality in the studio
@@dannyroe1697 there's a certain psychology at play when recording - this deserves a complete video from me - you've mentioned something important - how to achieve the relaxed or energetic live feel when in the studio. Mix balance has a lot to do with it. You need really good headphones to do this! Or a great exciting mix to sing in front of, like an amazing fold back wedge. Then pump your self up, mentally. Do warm-ups (like a rehearsal) then take a break for an hour and come back and pump it out!
@@dannyroe1697 Also record several takes very quickly, review performance if needed, but get a number of takes down and then compile them - again, a video on all this is a great idea!
@@jamiedurrantmusician
Yeah I am probably going to look for some recording documentaries on singers to see how a performance evolves over the recording session
apparently prince did almost all his vocals with a 58 in his hand at the console
Wow!
Thanks for the honesty and suggestions. Having this problem recording vocals for a folk rock ballad I'm self producing. Problems with pitch, phrasing and just singing in a way that's kind of not natural to how I typically sing. The result has really got me in my head about it. Think I might give this a shot.
Please do! Try to get your monitor volume at a level where no feedback occurs!!
Thanks for the tips! I recently gave up headphones and click/metronome entirely and I'm tracking all my vocals with monitors, just listening to the guitar, everything with condenser mics by the way. Noticeable bleed/feedback? It depends. I notice it, the listeners won't have a clue. But they would certainly hear a difference in the performance if I released the same song tracked with headphones: I sound so much worse.
I know exactly what you mean
Great stuff. 🙂 Singing with cans just throws me off. Both the pitching and general performance really suffers from it. I’ll give this a go. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed the video, I was surprised prior to making it that nobody else’s had covered this subject on TH-cam !
Update: The video refers to 'flipping phase' of the bleed (vocal) track. To better understand phase and phase relationship, please checkout the following video!!
th-cam.com/video/x0EJKZA-KoU/w-d-xo.html
I have done this using a sound baffler on the mic stand in front of an AKG C214 with very little bleed. Had the monitors up just enough to sing fully and hear the playback. Worked wonderfully.
Great job!! Very cool to know
@@jamiedurrantmusician I discovered that Peter Gabriel recorded all his vocals on "So" without headphones and they discussed how he cut them. It's on TH-cam, and worth seeking out. Thanks for your video!
@@schrandymcschrandface amazing I’ll check it out - great song
Thanks! I had a hard time wraping my mind around this issue (recording without speakers), I know it was possible with flipping the phase but I couldn't understand how.
I'll try it!
Good luck! As you’ll see if you read comments - others have explained about flipping speaker phase also
Agree it's hard for me to feel the resonance in my face and head with headphones on. thanks much!
I understand completely
I'm surprised how little is out there on the affect that headphones can have on pitch perception. i've notice it since i was a child. especially when removing headphones while music is still playing. the pitch of what i'm listening to drops drastically.
Yes! I was also amazed therefore made this video.
I find you comment fascinating regardless, so you’re saying you can notice a definite pitch change in listening when putting on and taking off headphones? I can’t say I’ve noticed that perception, we may need to dig deeper on this subject!
@@jamiedurrantmusician I'm not the original commenter but I can certainly notice the difference personally. I don't sing, I do hip hop but even so, pitch is still important. For years I noticed that when I would play a beat over the monitors and recite my lyrics, I was always able to get my pitch where it needed to be, as well as the correct tone I was going for effortlessly. Once I threw on headphones, I found my self always doing several takes in attempt to recreate what I was able to do without headphones prior to tracking, which led me to experimenting and scouring videos and forums for clever ways to record without headphones. I settled for years just leaving one side of the headphones off one of my ears but it still wasn't as good as what I sounded like without headphones. That's just my personal experience.
@@commonsense5188 fascinating! So many people are telling similar stories.
@@jamiedurrantmusician Indeed. My recording process is far less frustrating these days. I get a much more natural recording. My typical go to is recording my vocals, then recording just the bleed on a separate track and flipping the phase as you mentioned in this video as well. Works well for me.
The problem is that if you record vocal with transient background bleeds such as drums:
1) if you need to Compress it will bring these transients up
2) if you apply delay or time based fxs the transients Will also be affected becoming a little caotic
You know, you're bringing up some very clever issues here. And I assume this would also be the case, if recording vocals with the speaker phase flip trick. There's always going to be SOME bleed. What do you suggest otherwise?
michael beinhorn said chris cornell recorded superunknown alone in the control room with out-of-phase speakers.
It's popular - in this threat there is advice on how to flip speaker phase via your DAW master output seciton.
I do this quite often! However, I never knew about the bleed track method! Thank you
Give it a go! Enjoy
And my a lot easier way of recording vocal is to use only 1 headphone on me left or right ear while the second ear is open and can hear the voice in a natural acoustic
Very easy way of doing it - just I don’t get a vibe that way! But each to their own hey!
@@jamiedurrantmusician Sure, what's important, I send a mono mix to 1 ear.. but maybe will try your way someday, however it seems that a mic should be 100% fixed in the exact same position to use that anti phase fade effect what might be difficult if you axcidentally hit/move it
@@andymusicstudio2485 absolutely - it’s also fine to leave the spill in and just low pass and edit out the bits between singing parts - what really matters is great performance
@@jamiedurrantmusician Oh it would be cool if you make a video how to execute it on a simple example
@@andymusicstudio2485 happy to
Another way of cutting the bleed-through is a good Gate and good EQ VST. Cuts a lot of it right there~!
Very good point. Of course with your DAW once can edit out the track bleed between singing parts. EQ wise, high pass filter for sure!
Thank you for this great technique 🔥
Hope it helps!
yooo jamie, i been with this same problem since i started singing. Im sooo used to singing hearing myself organically (by my ear in whatever the space im singing) that when it comes to do the same thing with headphones and a condenser i end up very frustrated, its like i lose all the control i actually have. Anyway, i record just hearing the bleeding in my headphones and its more comfortable
Whatever allows you to make a GREAT performance is what matters NO bleed or technical issues
@@jamiedurrantmusician 100percent right. THANKS
Wow, had no idea you could do this. I will definitely try this next time I feel it could be useful. Thanks.
Glad I could help!
@jamiedurrantmusician hi, Jamie you were talking in the video about
“…Anthony Kiedis from RHCP or Bono from U2 sometimes sing into little tiny little oritone cubes or as we called them in those days, choritones, since they have one speaker with a very limited range and a bit obnoxious.”
can you drop links to videos of such recordings? i would be very grateful🫶
RE Kiedis, think I'm wrong, as I was thinking of the Funky Monks film, but he had cans on... but as for Bono, this was in the Being Mick (Jagger) film, which is not online anywhere free, order a DVD on Amazon. Also check out this photo of Prince's setup at Sunset sound! goldiesparade.co.uk/sunset-sound-studios/
@@jamiedurrantmusician thaanx bruh🌸🌸🌸
Wow- This is super interesting! I've notice in performance with IEMs that my pitch has been funky with recorded shows. I've also heard guys like Neal Schon (from Journey) say the same thing about singers using them and how they affect their pitch. His take was that it's something with the time it takes for the sound to come back to the singer via conventional floor monitors that don't produce that issue. I've used IEMs since 98, and I do notice this from time to time. It could be also if I have the IEMs too loud. On another avenue, I'm recording at home with headphones and a condensor, and I'm pushing more, tightening my voice more more and having a b*tch of a time recording a decent vocal with that setup. Sounds like the exact thing that you're experiencing. It's a higher song so there's SOMETHING about what I'm hearing that makes me not want to relax. I have on Audix OM7 which is supposed to have an incredibly tight pattern. I'll try out what you've demonstrated here to see if it helps. It could be that I just suck. :)
There you go! I’ve long been sus on in ears! There must be a very valid scientific reason for this pitching issue... obviously it’s not natural, the ear is shaped like it is for a reason and our brains are tuned to this as babies - right??
Let me know how it does with the OM7
Great ideas, I’ve been thinking of trying this too, now have more confidence to do it,
Also think I will try making a bleed track then try to use it with ducking fx
By the way sometimes I just sing with one ear out of the can, it depends on the song but sometimes helps I think
Thanks!
Cool, let me know how you go please!
Realy good idea!
Glad you think so!
Fantastic video I'm so happy I found this . !! I was wondering when you do the face flip bleed track do ident bounce the main vocal down with the phase flipped track into one stem?
No don’t bounce them down to one track, keep them separated so you can control the blend amount of the out of phase information, sometimes 50% phase cancellation sounds better and a little more natural - play wit it, experiment! Also try singing with a dynamic with a tight pickup pattern and just accept song bleed and see how it sounds!
@@jamiedurrantmusician yes believe it or not I actually bounced both of them down and it turned out fine to be honest. The reason I needed to do it was for melodyne as there was a lot of bleed in from speakers
@@TabbyCallaghan so it worked for you well then? And technically there’s nothing wrong with a bounce of the blend…
@@jamiedurrantmusician yes my man and I want to thank you again ..cheers !!
This is great, I’ve been curious about this method but haven’t seen a good explanation of how to do it. How loud should the monitors be ya know? I’m assuming there’s a volume sweet spot with bleed to voice ratio
Absolutely there is a sweet spot, try to perfectly centre yourself between the speakers as I have with mic directly opposite - eq out some mids to help with feedback, but only if this works for your final sound. I used a 421 dynamic, with a fair amount of boosted 10k top end, and some lows. Do some test performances and play it back. Experiment!
Yes
How brilliant!
It's not perfect - but it's a good option!
Thanks for this. I just came to check whether this kind of thing is possible before trying it myself.
or you could do like the old days and just put 1 monitor out of phase makes play back sound a little funny during tracking.. but will cut out bleed and you don't have to waste time making that 2nd track.
Does that work well for you - and are you just flipping phase on one speaker via your mixer or DAW or flipping positive and negative speaker wires?
@@jamiedurrantmusician haven't done it in years but use to do it on passive speakers.. so the wire coming of an amp we'd just flip the polarity on one speaker.. I'd assume you could just flip in the box if you have a way to control your speaker outputs.
@@RonniSantmyer I hear ya! Not as easy for most now with DAWs and powered monitors hey!?
@@jamiedurrantmusician maybe maybe not.. In Reaper I can use a plugin to flip just one side and I just looked in my Mixbuss 32C app and in the monitor section you can invert one of the channels going to your monitors.. not that hard.
@@RonniSantmyer oh cool - good bit of intel there Ronni ! I’m sure everyone on this thread will be interested, as I am
So why with live recordings we can get the clear vocals of the lead singer with no bleed? What’s the process there? The speakers are on the sides and above their heads? 🤔
If you’re taking about a band live recording at a gig, the mic may have really good rejection - meaning it may be a dynamic with a tight pickup pattern
Would be cool IF you played a Before&After of the OutPfPhaseBleed to A/B👍
Would love to set that up; however some major studio changes going on right now. I'll take you idea on board for the future for sure tho, great idea!!
@@jamiedurrantmusician thank YOU! 😉
Singing with Phones on can be strange especially when projecting
Apologies for the very late reply! For sure - it's really worth trying speakers - it worked for Prince!
🥇
what is the little emoji??
Hey, can you use any compression going in? I find tracking live vocals almost impossible with any compression. Would also think the actual vocal track would have different bleed to the pre-recordeded null track as the compression changes with the vocals.
Cheers
Yes, compression is fine. I did this with success. But of course, in passages where there is no singing the bleed level would increase, however in this case, you can mute bleed (mute all vocal tracks) in your DAW. I think the key to success is using a moderate playback volume not excessive. The phase flip bleed track method is not flawless, but it's worth experimenting with. As mentioned, could use my vocals without a phase flipped bleed track as my monitor level was moderate, and the rejection from mic was good. Of course you need to make sure EQ is not too excessive, as too might added highs can encourage feedback.
@@jamiedurrantmusician Thanks, I'm going to have to try this again.
i can sing my ass off UNTILLLLL i put on those HEADPHONES!!!! i have to find another way. im holding back with the headphones on and going sharp and flat. Without the headphones, im ready to go !!!
Prince used the studio monitors forget them headphones
I've actually thought about doing this a few times. We do this sometimes (and held) during the writing process and it turned out sounding pretty good., so why not? =0
Same here - anything that provides energy and a good vibe for your take. Obviously a condenser and cans is good if you can manage it, but experimenting with mic choices, subtle EQ and compression (avoiding feedback) is key. Good luck, post your results here!
Good info here, cheers!
When you say flip the phasers, what exactly do you mean?
Hi Corey, thanks for your interest! Flip phase is the term I’m attempting to explain. This can be done electronically by reversing the polarity or positive and negative pins of an XLR mic, and many recording consoles can do this with a phase switch - the one with this ø symbol. Of course now days you can flip phase in most digital audio workstations. Perhaps let me know what you’re recording with and I can advise!
@@jamiedurrantmusician Ah okay I see. We'll be using ProTools. We are heading into the studio and want to do a live off the floor recording including vocals. The singer is great but hates singing with headphones on so I'm trying to look for solutions to suggest to the engineer. She is definitely at her best while singing lie in the rehearsal space with no headphones. I suppose we could try what you are suggesting although it wouldn't exactly be live off the floor. Thanks for the info!!
@@coreyvanderiley9517 yes, it would be impossible to do this phase trick with a live band - obviously - but you could record the band (get that part down) an play back the recorded band track and put that through monitors or wedges. Otherwise your band bleed might be excessive! Far too loud. You could also look at a partial isolation setup for your singer, to reduce the band bleed but still let through enough to give your singer a live feel.
Look out for a sennheiser 441 - amazing recording dynamic vocal mic, great rejection! That will work for live takes with band.