Hello, can someone explain to me why this is a work which uses 12 tone technique but the first entry of the 'tone row' has a repeated Eb in bar 2 after already appearing in bar 1? I also found other examples of notes being repeated before 'all the 12 notes have been sounded' in the first page alone. Thanks
Simply because Boulez doesn't really care about it. He doesn't have a strict character following the dogmatic technique of Schönberg and uses the serialism as an experiment where music can flow. If feels that his music discourse needs to repeat a note or break the 12 tone series, he won't hesitate as for him music needs to be a liberator.
12-tone music has never simply employed the principle of using all 12 notes before repeating any. 12-music music uses tone rows as the starting principle for composition, but the actual music, in the end, will consist of many rows in many different inversions, transpositions, etc., all playing off each other. Many notes will repeat and not all 12 notes will be used absolutely equally at all times. And Schoenberg still believed in traditional melody & counterpoint.
I'm curious, no judgement, but do people actually enjoy this? If so, I'm curious to know what about it is so good. Because from my standpoint, it sounds like a giant mess. Well-coordinated, but still a big jumble.
I've listened to this many times over a few years, and parts of it are indeed a jumble; Boulez very consciously takes on the third piece of Schoenberg's Op. 11 as a model, i.e. "radical athematicism" (as academics might call it!). But the interaction between different layers continues to fascinate me, especially where the "athematicism" begins to wear. Take the opening gesture: two triplets, a dotted eighth with a grace note, and a quarter quintuplet; with some variation (but, indeed, very little apart from tone inversions), this appears multiple times, like a strophe, and it even is there in the second movement. This is perhaps not something one will encounter on a first listen, but I remember (without the score!) realizing that this little motif spreads itself out in both movements. Boulez takes up very contradictory forms here which may or may not inspire, and I freely admit there is some element of taste with this sort of music. But I have found it highly rewarding both intellectually, and as something to speculate upon philosophically. For me, that makes for excellent, if difficult, music.
A study of the 12 tone technique of composition and how it came about, how it's used and why it came to be, multiple listens and a good understanding of western musical history helps. Otherwise, it can be enjoyed for it's complexity alone.
This is twelve tone serialism, by definition really difficult to listen to because it avoids tonal centres, even temporary ones, in an attempt to avoid the characteristics of tonal music. Basically there are only twelve possible notes in Western music. Tonal music chooses one of these notes as the root, which gives a sense of "home" and finality. Serialism involves choosing among the twelve notes according to a mathematical system so there is no possible hint of a root note. The listener is kept perpetually floating. I still found this really hard to listen to, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed the second movement.
hOW bIRET LEARNS SO MUCH MUSIC AND EMPATHIZES with SO MANY STYLES is only one of her rarest phenomenal qualities !
100% agreed! She's amazing!
Well, however there's some 20th century works she plays absolutely terribly (see for instance Ligeti's 18 etudes)
One of my favourite works by Boulez, it is however surprising to me as to how Biret, who would often play mostly romantic music, came up with this.
I write a sonata like this my Sonata N2 mov3
@@Tizohip weird flex but ok
so good...
Dés la première mesure, j'ai vu ma vie défiler sous mes yeux !
D'accord
2nd movement 4:32
I suggest you listen to this pièce, played by DIMITRI VASSILAKIS, then you ll feel thé art of it...
Hello, can someone explain to me why this is a work which uses 12 tone technique but the first entry of the 'tone row' has a repeated Eb in bar 2 after already appearing in bar 1? I also found other examples of notes being repeated before 'all the 12 notes have been sounded' in the first page alone. Thanks
Simply because Boulez doesn't really care about it. He doesn't have a strict character following the dogmatic technique of Schönberg and uses the serialism as an experiment where music can flow. If feels that his music discourse needs to repeat a note or break the 12 tone series, he won't hesitate as for him music needs to be a liberator.
12-tone music has never simply employed the principle of using all 12 notes before repeating any. 12-music music uses tone rows as the starting principle for composition, but the actual music, in the end, will consist of many rows in many different inversions, transpositions, etc., all playing off each other. Many notes will repeat and not all 12 notes will be used absolutely equally at all times. And Schoenberg still believed in traditional melody & counterpoint.
From Biret's playing, I take it it is not required to take the more complicated rhythms literally?
Rhymes with SPHINX.
I'm curious, no judgement, but do people actually enjoy this? If so, I'm curious to know what about it is so good. Because from my standpoint, it sounds like a giant mess. Well-coordinated, but still a big jumble.
I've listened to this many times over a few years, and parts of it are indeed a jumble; Boulez very consciously takes on the third piece of Schoenberg's Op. 11 as a model, i.e. "radical athematicism" (as academics might call it!). But the interaction between different layers continues to fascinate me, especially where the "athematicism" begins to wear. Take the opening gesture: two triplets, a dotted eighth with a grace note, and a quarter quintuplet; with some variation (but, indeed, very little apart from tone inversions), this appears multiple times, like a strophe, and it even is there in the second movement. This is perhaps not something one will encounter on a first listen, but I remember (without the score!) realizing that this little motif spreads itself out in both movements. Boulez takes up very contradictory forms here which may or may not inspire, and I freely admit there is some element of taste with this sort of music. But I have found it highly rewarding both intellectually, and as something to speculate upon philosophically. For me, that makes for excellent, if difficult, music.
A study of the 12 tone technique of composition and how it came about, how it's used and why it came to be, multiple listens and a good understanding of western musical history helps. Otherwise, it can be enjoyed for it's complexity alone.
yes, this people actually enjoys this: i like it's simple complexity; it definitely has ebb and flow (not a jumble) and beauty!
Garbage
This is twelve tone serialism, by definition really difficult to listen to because it avoids tonal centres, even temporary ones, in an attempt to avoid the characteristics of tonal music.
Basically there are only twelve possible notes in Western music. Tonal music chooses one of these notes as the root, which gives a sense of "home" and finality. Serialism involves choosing among the twelve notes according to a mathematical system so there is no possible hint of a root note. The listener is kept perpetually floating.
I still found this really hard to listen to, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed the second movement.
This goes hard on mute 🔥🗣️🚨🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 never let lil bro cook again 💪🥱☠️🚨🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
tf
Harmony? OVER. Melody? OVER. Rhythm/meter? OVER. Motives? OVER. Form? OVER. The Atomic Bomb of music.
All of those can be found in this piece
This is an example of a clear-cut reason why you should always get your ears cleaned before you start composing any music.
I don't think so
@@GUILLOM ...but oh contraire, I do think so!
@@thejils1669 okay :D
Before listening too
I'd still rather listen to Xenakis or Krenek's atonal works....
Indeed .Xenakis IS AN UNIVERSAL GENUIS . All his works que jusqu'à SUPREME .
Are just supreme...
My cat leapt on the piano and played this piece, less masterful but no kidding.
Wrong
Truño
Entartete Musik!
go listen to wagner, adolf.
That's a term that puts you right in step with others who used it back in the 1930d. And really, you don't want to be there.
Talk about unabashed plagiarism of Beethoven's "Pathetique"...shame, shame, shame!
Это музыка? Этож мучить клавиши тем что ты умеешь тыкать в них. Мне в страшном сне такое такое не услышать,шо це?