Stepper Motor vs. ClearPath Servo Motor Demonstration Video
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2017
- Watch a side by side comparison of a stepper motor (micro-stepping) versus an integrated ClearPath brushless servo motor.
Have you ever wondered what the differences are between a stepper motor and a servo motor? Do you ever get frustrated with your stepper motor losing steps, but hesitate buying a servo motor because you think they are too expensive or complicated? This video explains the difference in overall power, power density, throughput, step loss, stalling and cost.
For more information on Teknic ClearPath servos, subscribe to our channel and visit Teknic's website.
Teknic TH-cam Channel: / @teknicinc
Teknic Website: www.teknic.com/
In this demonstration, you can also find general examples of applications where you would use a stepper or a servo. Teknic discusses how to properly compare steppers and servos and how to calculate power from a torque-speed curve.
Toward the end of the video, there is a demonstration of the differences in performance (speed, smoothness, accuracy, noise, etc.) between a stepper motor and a servo motor. There are also differences between tuning, noise resistance, setup, and more. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Looks like a really nice quality motor. Should work perfectly for my application. Thanks for sharing👍
Hi HomeGrownPyro,
Thank you for your positive feedback. I'm glad to hear that ClearPath is a good fit for your application.
Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions or need any support moving forward.
Best regards,
Bridgette G. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
The biggest drawback of Clearpath motors is lack of encoder feedback which in turn makes them unable to be used in robots where position teaching happens by manually moving joints when motor windings are being de-energised. The solution of this issue would be either implementing a proper encoder quadrature output signal or addind a second shaft for mounting an external encoder.
Could you please elaborate? I thought CleartPath was fully closed loop
stepper motors can be quiet if used with good drivers
I'm new to this type of bench mill conversions, so please bear with me.
is there a servo spindle motor with an encoder built in made to replace the spindle motor for on a CNC controlled conversion of a Precision Matthews PM-833 TV or PM-940V milling machine?
I believe a servo spindle motor will be of much better use in RPM's over a typical AC spindle motor.
I prefer the spindle motor to be CNC controlled through the use of m codes. I know that M03 - clockwise , Mm04 - counter clockwise, M05 - spindle stop, & M30 end of program will stop the spindle.
Also, would you be willing to suggest a brand and type?
I wold like to convert my Precision Matthews PM-833 Verbal Speed or PM-940V. I would like to spindle with an on/off & speed controlled within the part program with out having to turning on & adjusting the spindle speed manually.
Try nanotec step servos, these are quiet and extremely smooth, we use the integrated step servos in our applications
On the servo, is the motor itself a stepper where you send it pulses like a stepper or is it different?
Hi Jamil F, ClearPath is a closed-loop, brushless servo motor with an integrated AC vector servo drive and a 12,800 count/revolution encoder. ClearPath is not a stepper motor or a hybrid between stepper and servo, but it does communicate using step and direction signals (as well as with digital I/O for certain models).
Teknic's ClearPath SD models were designed to be drop-in replacements for stepper motors (or digital step and direction servos) so that a user does not have to change the software on his/her step and direction controller. As long as the motion controller can output step and direction (or A/B quadrature), it will be compatible with ClearPath.
Please feel free to email support@teknic.com if you have any additional questions.
Best regards,
Bridgette G.
Great and fantastic explanation keep it up, I have got a question that ....what kind to motor is good for machine has to operate in low speed with arm(50cm) holding up 10kg of weight
Hi Mo Yahya. I’m an applications engineer with Teknic and came across your question. Most digital servos, including ClearPath, are well suited to handle this type of application, especially at low speeds. In this case, the arm/weight represents a large inertial load so you’ll want to review the system inertia and continuous torque requirements. You’ll likely benefit from using a high-ratio gearbox.
If you need some further applications help, you can contact us with specific questions through our website at: www.teknic.com/contact/
Thanks for your feedback.
-Abe A
How would it be to put in a closed loop motor in a normal h-bot marvin system. Do I need custom firmware?
Hi KenHelps You,
Thanks for watching and for your question. No, the ClearPath motors do not require any custom firmware for an H-Bot type application. To keep the motors well coordinated, you would use the ClearPath SD series and a step and direction command.
Searching TH-cam with the search terms “ClearPath” and “H-Bot” will bring up some videos of ClearPath integrated servo motors running H-Bot assemblies.
You can find more information in the ClearPath User Manual and on Teknic’s website:
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/clearpath_user_manual.pdf
www.teknic.com/downloads
If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us directly at support@teknic.com.
Best regards,
Aaron B. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
I'm entirely sold on servo systems. It seems they also have higher operating torque in a higher RPM.
Hi davidsirmons. Your observation is correct. One of the advantages of servos over steppers of similar physical size, is their ability to output high continuous torque (and on-demand peak torque) over a wider range of speeds. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
~Jim W.
Applications Engineer
Teknic, Inc.
Hello.
I want to shift gears electrically (using paddles and an Arduino) on my 125cc, 42 HP shifter kart.
I just don't know what servo or stepper motor I would need to accomplish this.
I measured the force needed to change gears to be about 13 kgf (I used a spring scale to pull the leaver that changes the gear in the gearbox. When the gear changed it showed 13 kg)
What is the force in Nm that I need (I don't know exactly how to calculate it, or if I measured correctly)?
Is a servo or a stepper better?
It would also need to be fast (not long travel - only about 3 cm - but as fast as possible).
It would be awesome if it used only 5V power supply. But higher is OK too.
I saw many systems on the internet but none shower the exact model of the actuator/motor used to change gears (since they are all commercial systems).
I would like to accomplish something on the lines of ME-Shifter F1. (Of course not that sophisticated)
Any help would be very appreciated.
Hi Pintea,
In order to know what type and size of motor would be best for your application, it's important to understand a little more about the mechanics of the system (i.e. inertia, torque, velocity, dimensions, duty cycle, etc.)
Given the limited bandwidth and formatting capability of TH-cam, this may not be the best venue to answer all of your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact us at support@teknic.com if you would like to discuss your application.
(As a note, the DC-input ClearPath motors nominally require a minimum of 24VDC and a maximum of 75VDC. 5VDC is high enough for the I/O but too low for motor movement. )
Thanks,
Jonathan T.
I'd recommend a mechanical linkage, over an electronic system in a kart, some aluminun sheet and ball joints will weigh less than a battery, alternator, psu wiring switches ect.
I've seen some of these systems use pneumatic actutation. Maybe that could be an alternative.
Using some kind of motor think of a cam - like the ones in 4-stroke motors. Other than that I agree with Teknic Inc that one would need more information to give help for a design.
Lexium mdrive stepper from Schneider electric has all of these features that this clearpath servo has.
hi, how can i get some question answered .. i did ask on website you left but no one so far a month later has answered . so where can i get some info on your motors .
Hi Max,
Thank you for your inquiry, and I am sorry to hear that you sent an earlier request that went unanswered. We try to respond within 24 hrs so I am not sure what happened to your first request.
There are three main sources for ClearPath motor information: Teknic’s ClearPath section of the website, Teknic videos, and the ClearPath User Manual. I am not sure what information you are looking for so here are the links to each area to be researched:
Teknic website:
www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors
ClearPath manuals:
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/clearpath_user_manual.pdf
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/ac_clearpath-mc-sd_manual.pdf
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Clearpath-SC%20User%20Manual.pdf
Teknic videos:
th-cam.com/channels/4Q91tGO80QMSHyy1SoHrtg.html
You can also send any specific questions to support@teknic.com
Best regards,
Tom T
Thank you Tom.
3DPlatform used servos back in 2016 but screw is limiting travel speed to 120mm/s 🙂
if i used this extra quiet motor id still be hearing all my plastic flappin everywhere! =)
Nice comparison. too bad there has been a development of a new stepper driver the TMC series TMC2130 (for example )for NEMA motors that solve the noise and tracking issues.
and will still be a cheaper option.
Hi DarkShadowsX5,
I'm an applications engineer with Teknic, and I'm that glad you liked the video and took the time to provide us with the feedback.
I am not personally familiar with that TMC series of Integrated Circuits, but I looked up the specs of this chip and I believe it is rated to 1.2A. At a max output voltage of 46VDC, its electrical output power would be about ~55W, making the stepper’s mechanical output shaft power in the 40W range. This would allow a user to make their own drive in the same power class range as the NEMA 23 stepper described in the video.
It’s unclear from the data sheet if you can use this product to run a stepper motor as a servo, which, if you could, would somewhat reduce the noise (our Meridian product has this capability built in).
I cannot comment on the price or performance of this chip, but on paper (once designed into an appropriate drive board) it seems like it should at least be a comparable power output to the stepper described in the video. I don’t know how much work would have to go into making this chip into a complete drive product.
Best regards,
Jon K
The TMC chips are plugged into a RAMPS v1.4 board or other modular stepper driver board. the boards hold 5 and are controlled by an 8bit or 32bit processor depending on what you get.
Although it does help reduce motor noise significantly, I don't think my original comment about the tracking/stepping issues was entirely correct. i haven't yet used one and been based on my personal research.
the clear path motors do look like a great alternative but pricy.
let's say I'm looking to build a fast, reliable, and precise multi-purpose CNC machine. swap out mill spindle, laser cutter, 3d printer heads.
and needs to be able to mill aluminum at a decent speed. I don't have a lot of room for 3 machines. I'm looking at motion/control options.
Hi DarkShadowsX5,
Thank you for the additional information on the TMC chips.
We can break down the process of selecting the right motors for your machine into two separate parts:
1 - Calculate the physical requirements of your application- In other words, calculate the torque, reflected inertia, velocity and acceleration values, etc. which make sense for the materials you are looking to process. Once you know these values, you can use that information to decide if you should use a servo or a stepper based system. You’ll probably need to do this a few times for the different “heads” you plan on putting on your machine. Once completed, you will be able to size an optimal motor that can hit all of your motion requirements.
2 - Figuring out how you intend to control the motors (i.e. what type of signals to tell them where and how to move). If you are looking at a ClearPath servo, then you will need to choose from one of three series of motors - essentially you’ll be selecting the best control fit for your application.
For people who choose ClearPath to retrofit or build CNC machines, we recommend the ClearPath Step & Direction (“SD”) series of servo motors. The SD ClearPath servos interface to numerous third-party CNC controllers which synchronize and coordinate the different axes on your machine to cut/mill/print the appropriate part. Just make sure that the controller can output a 5-24 VDC single-ended step and direction signal. (As a side note, this same Step & Direction protocol is often used with stepper motors as well).
If you’re interested, you can find additional information on the SD ClearPath servo motors (including the torque, speed, and power ratings) on Teknic’s website: www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-sd-stepper-replacement/
Best of luck with your machine build,
Jon K.
Oriental motors ?
What's the smallest clearpath servo i could get?
Hi booger king,
I’m an applications engineer with Teknic.
The smallest ClearPath servos Teknic manufactures are NEMA 23, single “stack” motors (motors with “2310” or “2311” in their part numbers. Their dimensions are:
3.34” x 2.33” x 2.33” (L x W x H respectively)
The specific part number(s) will depend upon which series of ClearPath makes the most sense for your application. Below is a link to the overview videos for each ClearPath series (SD, MC and SC).
www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-servos/#which-series
Please feel free to email us at support@teknic.com if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
Mark D.
Driving stepper with Field Oriented Control (Foc) in closed loop, may compete
Can I use these servos with a normal 3d printer board? Or do I need something else?
Paclanc they take regular step and direction signals so it should work with any 3D printer platform. But as the video stated these are for higher power applications. I have them on my CNC mill but I would only put them on a printer if money wasn't a factor or it is a very large printer that needed the power.
What makes or brake stepper motor is the driver get better one and will have low noise high torque
Hi Gamex996,
I agree that the drive selection can play a significant role in the performance of a permanent magnet motor (stepper or servo). In this video we used a well-known, commercially available stepper drive set to micro stepping mode.
However, because of the physical differences in motor construction between a stepper and a servo motor, steppers tend to run audibly noisy regardless of the driver used.
-Aaron B.
we have stepper motor,servo motor and driver,very good price and quality
Trinamic drivers with encoders and "StealthChop" mode are quiet, fast and accurate. And it's cheaper solution.
yeah, but as accurate ?
@@joeygonzo Steppers are always much accurate than brushless. Steppers have 200 or 400 full steps per revolution, and brushless have only 3-30. Microstepping makes steppers even more precise, and they have much stronger holding torque. Of course, they are not as fast as brushless, but with good drivers and under low load can still reach 3000 RPM.
Servo is using on expensive machines.Thats all point.
In the price point you forgot to say that you will also need a "driver" like power supply for the clearpath, wich is verry expensive. AND there are verry good open source stepper drivers for a neat price compared to the unit you choose. For example the TB6600 stepper driver. In my opinion a stepper is also totally okay if you need a Nema 23 Size. All Sizes above this (Nema 34 and 42) there is no way around a servo. All below Nema 34, the stepper is still way cheaper!!!
Hi Dunichtich100, Thank you for your comment. I'm an applications engineer for Teknic and wanted to clarify some points about the power supplies used for stepper and servo systems. (comment continues)
Both systems require a DC power supply (of approximately the same voltage range). We used the same bulk linear power supply for both systems in this comparison.
If your motor power requirements are low, you can use a 24VDC supply with either system and these supplies can be very inexpensive. If you want maximum power from the motor, you can use 75VDC with either. (More power supply voltage gives you more electrical power input to the drive and motor, and hence more mechanical power out of the shaft. In other words, greater (volts x amps) input means greater (torque x speed) output given the same motor/drive combination.)
Teknic sells a 75VDC power supply for $199 (the IPC-3). This supply is designed specifically for motion control applications, so it has certain features unique to motor control (e.g. control of regenerated voltage), but you can also make your own bulk linear supply for less.
I'm not familiar with the TB6600 drive, but I looked up the specs and it's rated to output up to 4 amps. At its max voltage of 42VDC (it too, requires a DC power supply), and using the same Oriental Motor stepper de-rated properly according to the manufacturer, you will get 55 mechanical watts (not to be confused with electrical watts, which is just its bus voltage times its output current which is ~168 watts of electrical power).
So although I can't fairly comment on its quality or performance, it makes sense that the TB6600 used with a motor that maximizes its output power (~55 watts shaft power) is less expensive than the ClearPath SDSK-2310S (~100 W of shaft power).
That being said, if the stepper gives you all the power you need and you don't need the other servo advantages (smoother and quieter motion, closed-loop feedback, higher torque at higher speeds, etc.), it may be the best choice. That's one of the things I like about engineering - figuring out how to optimize for each application's particular needs.
We'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Please feel free to contact support@teknic.com.
Best regards,
Bridgette G.
Just as stepper with an encoder for closed loop feedback aka "servo". Oriental has them everybody has them. I'm must admit they are a good solution for most applications.
Hi R.J.,
This is actually a common question. For clarification, ClearPath is not a stepper motor with an encoder. The motor core within ClearPath is an 8-pole, brushless, sinewave-commutated servo motor. (See more below)
The reason I’m making this distinction is because although you can put an encoder on a stepper motor and run it as a servo, the construction of a stepper motor (which was originally designed specifically to run open-loop), is not very good for servo control. The very high pole count (typically 100), which is essential to running the stepper open-loop, creates a very high electrical inductance, and reluctance torque. Both of these factors are counter-productive for a servo-controlled motor (reduced power at speed, high ripple torque, more servo “hunting”, etc.).
As an aside, you can see a cutaway of the ClearPath motor core construction here: www.teknic.com/products/hudson-motors/
Please contact Teknic if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Brendan - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
imagine stepper motor drivers being that expensive. almost tricked me
If y'all want to see their products in the hands of an average Joe, check this out: th-cam.com/users/saunixcompsearch?query=clearpath (It's *hilarious* just how hard he is geeking out over what they can do!)
OFC if your motor worth 698$, it should be better than a generic stepper ! Why do you even compare?
nema 23's are WAY cheaper than clearpath. You can buy a chinese nema 23 driver AND stepper for like $30
Hi kkuhn,
To choose the most appropriate motor/drive system for your application, you should follow these steps:
1) calculate your mechanical power requirements
2) calculate the shaft power of each system as shown in the video
3) tentatively select systems that have the appropriate amount of power
4) from those systems, choose the lowest price system that has the performance, features and reliability that you need.
The size of a motor (e.g., NEMA 23) is not a good indicator of power or performance. A $30 NEMA 23 stepper will have a small fraction of the shaft power of an equal size ClearPath servo motor. This doesn’t make it bad, per se, it just means that it shouldn’t be considered for the same application as an equal-size ClearPath motor. Either the stepper will have too little power for your application or ClearPath will have too much. ClearPath has much higher performance too (no lost steps, smoothness, quietness, integrated package, etc.), but it costs a lot more than $30, so ClearPath would not be very popular if it didn’t have these power and performance advantages.
As a rule of thumb, when your application requires 50+ watts of mechanical power, ClearPath will start to make economic sense compared to a stepper. For less than 50 watts, especially if lower performance is acceptable in your application, a stepper motor system may be more economical.
Best Regards,
Aaron
Servo motors come in NEMA 23 as well. It is just a size and form-factor designation and doesn't imply any type of motor.
I commented this because they were showing a single nema 23 stepper and driver for $346 in the video but in reality they are MUCH less expensive and make the clearpaths seem that much more overpriced imo 1:30
Hey you forgot to mention the software and control interface to use the servo lol... or is that 5000$ you worry about paying after 3k on 3 servos lol?
Stepper drivers are stepper drivers. They send pulses to the motor and nothing more. Why waste money on a $280 driver when you can get one from china for $30? Yeah the expensive one may have some features but honestly you are using a stepper so what are you expecting?
commercial lie of course - if you have such noise during stepper operation, replace your driver because your voltage delivery is wrong
Older stepper drivers have larger voltage steps (micro steps in between full steps) causing micro shutters that make the noise like in the video. New stepper drivers are nearly dead silent if not completely silent because they have many more steps and other magic apparently idk.
Yet another fake comparison for sake of advertising.
Never trust a motor manufacturer who's allegedly professional, but doesn't give the real motor characterics and curves. What you can see at 2:18 is not a real one, but a kind of artifical. Professionals need exact real curves to design driving systems. So this manufacturer sells to amateurs only. Because of this they can state anything , false and made up things, whatever they want, no one will/can verify it. The motor comparison part of the video is also fake, staged. No one knows what are you comparing, its a secret. A real comparison is like an experiment, you have to name all components precisely, and the experiment must be repeatable, verifiable. What kind of power supplies you used, what kind of motor controllers, what kind of motor drivers, and what kind of motors ? You compared all of these components not only the motors, did you know that at all ? Its all secret, but instead of that you state something what can be true or lie. Most probably its a lie, because you don't even try to make a fair unbiased comparison, that is not your goal.
Hi Telelaci2, I'm an applications engineer for Teknic. We apologize if any of the content in this video led you to believe that our intent was to deceive motion control users in any way. The goals of our videos are to educate and explain motion control topics to our viewers as objectively as possible so that each person can be fully informed to make the best decision for his/her particular circumstances. We welcome any comments that point out where we may have been unclear, biased, or wrong, and we will do our best to fix the situation.
Below, I've listed each component we used to compare this specific stepper system to our specific ClearPath servo system. The components we used were manufactured by companies that we run into when selling to OEMs, so our choice is more toward that end of the spectrum rather than the hobbiest end. This way, we are comparing the same class of products to our OEM-focused motion control products.
Please feel free to repeat the experiment with the components listed below; you should be able to easily repeat our results. Please don't hesitate to contact support@teknic.com if you have any additional questions or concerns.
Best regards,
Bridgette G.
Stepper System Components:
• Macron Mini Belt Stage from Macron Dynamics P/N: MSA-628 (same for both demos)
• Schneider Electric MForce Power Drive Plus P/N: MFM1CSZ34N7
• Oriental Motor/Vexta Stepping Motor: PK268DA
• 75VDC bulk linear power supply (same for both demos)
• AllMotion EZ-series stepper indexer (same controller for both demos)
Servo System Differences:
• Teknic ClearPath Integrated Servo Motor P/N: CPM-SDSK-2310S-RLN instead of the Schneider stepper drive and Oriental Motor stepper motor.
Hi Bridgette,
Thanks for your answer, you are very kind, but sorry to say it doesn't make the things much clearer. You said you were an engineer. Then you listed 2 different system accurately, from different manufacturers, manufactured for different purposes. And you have found differences between them in the test. As an engineer please tell me what was the goal of the comparison. (I know, to prove that Clearpath is better than any stepper, but I wanna hear something unbiased official goal, from an engineer) What did you expect? What makes you think that you compared the "servo" and the "stepper motor" here, and not for example the quality of motors or the drivers, or the controllers. As an engineer you know that exactly, there are huge differences in those products. As an engineer you know that (at least you should know) that huge difference in the noise at 4:25 could mean :
a) very different motor quality, or
b) very different kind of controllers, or
c) very different kind of controlling, settings or controller, or software, or
d) all above
e) none of above but something else.
As an engineer, what makes you think that you demonstrate the effect of feedback upon the noise at that moment ? Let me mention one thing, you compare actually 2 stepper-motor, one is without, and one is with loopback. We both know that the typical servos has different diagram from what we see at 2:40, so naming it servo is not totally accurate although its common (Leadshine easyservo) A real servo is slightly different design with lower low speed torque and higher high speed torque. This is a stepper design equipped with position feedback.
You know I (and you too) could repeat that comparison with a totally different result. A regular stepper motor would be more quiet than the quasy-servo one at that low speed or at least the same quiet. I could set that up if I wanted. This is not 2-3000rpm where a servo really shines. The huge difference in noise is there because of the difference of the driving and controlling. One is without smooth steps, the other one is smooth with big divider. Its that simple. Have you shown us the difference in the torque at that point any way? An engineer would like to see that, don't you think ? As a stepper engineer you know exactly that the feedback doesn't help on the motor at low speed when you set low, smooth steps for sake of low noise. You would lose the torque for exchange.
Next time if you wanna see the effect of the feedback upon noise, use exatly the same Clearpath motors, just remove the feed back somehow. As an engineer this is obvious. Of course you can set better smootsteps with feedback if you don't ruin the torque. But at low speed this is not possible , you know this.
You see ? Despite of the fact that your answer is very detailed and honourable, you can't hide the fact that this experiment has no meaning to an engineer. There are no engineering goals to prove or falsify. The experiment was not created by a scientist or an engineer, but a merchant, and it was made for amateurs, and the goal has nothing to do with comparison or demonstration, but advertising instead. I'm sure about this, because there is a really telltale fact. I could have chosen a much more quiet (even a Chinese crap) stepper motor + driver for $346 bucks , hahaha :) You were very clever with finding this crap noisy but expensive stepper motor :)
Hi Bridget,
I forgot to mention something. You are very brave when you answered honestly to my question and listed the products and named them accurately. I think that this comparison staged and it has nothing to do with the reality, but actually it doesn't matter what do I think about it. I'm just one watcher fro many thousands. But you have to know that comparison of named products is not legal in some country.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advertising
You took some risk when you named those motors and electronics. You know based on this video I would never buy Vextra stepper motor its really shit and noisy, but the performance of that Schneider RBD 242A-V driver (for $280) is especially crap, or it must be counterfeit there is no other explanation. I would buy Teknic Clearpath motor obviously based on this "unbiased" but informative video, because I'm not stupid. We can see a miracle-like brand's new technology, its possible to make better products than others make, for much less money. Its all about secret principles and special knowledge. How did he say at 4:20 - "...the motor's contruction and servo algorithm allow the motor to be very quiet..." - this is what engineers know at Tekno but not at Shneider. The feedback of position makes miracles to the controlling algorithm even at very low speed. And they know nothing about motor construction just like Jon Snow, at Oriental Motors Japan. Fortunately I'm not from Scheider neither from Oriental Motors, but if somebody from them would see this video they would ask for removing it immediately. I don't want to lie, I could understand them. You know I can show you dozens of videos here on youtube, where a cheap-chinese-crap unbranded stepper motor for $20 plus a counterfeit Leadshine copycat DSP controller for $35 produces much less noise and runs with much less vibration than that shit Vextra stepper motor on the video with that professional Shneider electronics. If I were a Shneider employee, this video would not be my favorite.
Hi Telelaci2, I appreciate you taking the time to express your thoughts and I feel that you make some valid points. Here is some more information to clarify.
ClearPath has an integrated three phase, 8-pole, permanent magnet brushless motor, combined with a sinewave-commutated, vector torque-controlled servo drive and a 12,800 count/rev encoder. There isn't a way to remove feedback within ClearPath, because the encoder is internally closing the loop to the drive built into the system. If, hypothetically, you could remove the encoder, the motor would not be able to be position controlled any more because it doesn’t work open loop like a stepper motor (the main historical advantage of the stepper motor construction).
If you'd like to see the motor components that ClearPath uses, you can visit Teknic's Hudson servo motor page. ClearPath is built from most of same motor components used in Teknic’s Hudson servo motor ( www.teknic.com/products/hudson-motors/ ) and on this page you can see a cut-away photo that will allow you to see that it is not a stepper motor.
ClearPath SDSK models were designed to be a drop-in replacement for stepper motors. (The “SK” in the model name actually stands for “Stepper Killer”; that was its internal name when it was under development.) Their torque/speed curves are purposely designed to be similar to a stepper curve, except that they provide higher power at any given size.
The two systems we compared were set up exactly the same except for that the stepper motor and stepper drive were replaced with the ClearPath integrated servo system. The difference in noise is because the physical design of a stepper motor produces significant audible noise (along with the associated loss of energy and efficiency). The reason ClearPath is quieter is because it is an 8-pole, PM motor run as a vector torque controlled servo. All other settings and components (including the controller) were the same for both systems.
The stepper motor and stepper drive are manufactured by large, reputable companies and are used in many OEM machines. These are products that we sometimes run into when catering to our OEM market, so we know that they are of a quality suitable for demanding OEMs.
Sometimes a stepper motor makes more sense than a servo for specific applications and users, especially where the shaft power required is less than 100W. The goal of this video was to inform users about the differences, and to show where ClearPath is advantageous over stepper systems.
I agree, we could have expanded the video to list out all of the components we used, what specific controller settings were used for what type of moves, and all of the information that you've pointed out. However, that would also call for a much longer demonstration and video. I also agree that the title may be confusing because we are not comparing a stepper motor vs. a generic servo motor, but rather a stepper system vs. the integrated ClearPath servo system. I value the feedback and will suggest that we look into making the title a bit clearer.
That said, servos (ClearPath or otherwise) will always have the performance advantages shown in the video; our goal was to show that you can get those performance advantages now with ClearPath at a low price (comparable to stepper motors of similar power) and without the complexity typically associated with servos.
I realize that this additional information and my explanation may never change your feelings regarding this demonstration and ClearPath. I respect that you take the time and effort to correct information that you feel is false or misleading. I think it would be great if more people did this with information presented on the internet to ensure more accuracy and truthfulness. I hope that the information I've provided and the material on our website will help clarify this demonstration, Teknic's products, and the goals of our company.
If you ever decide to try the experiment yourself and have any questions, we'd be happy to answer them. And if you ever wanted to try a ClearPath motor, it has a 90-day money-back guarantee; you can buy one, test it for three months, and send it back for a full refund. That might be the best way to become convinced :)
I wish you the best of luck with your motion control applications.
Best,
Bridgette
Hi Bridgette,
"...There isn't a way to remove feedback within ClearPath..." - I presumed this, I'm not stupid. But then you compare 2 different product. Not "servo vs. stepper", because there are many-many other differences between them. I can compare a car with diesel motor to another car with petrol motor. And I can show you that the gasoline motor much louder, much weaker, much more expensive... so on, just I have to choose the car's type/manufacturer accordingly. And actually I wouldn't lie. Just the comparison wouldn't show the difference between petrol and diesel motor, but someting else. Of course in general the diesel motor is louder and weaker and more expensive. A real engineer doesn't do such a comparison. Maybe an advertising manager.
"...to see that is not a stepper motor..." I didn't mean offence or degrading the motor, I just meant that the motor charactertics is like a stepper, so its more similar to a stepper (with feeback) than a high speed servo. And the guy also mention it on the video, and you have just explained it, you wanna replace existing stepper systems.
To the other parts I don't answer sorry. Because excuse me but its just simply stupid. You deduce the advantage of your servo to principles and the motor structure, and you guys at Tekno know this , everyone else in the world doesn't. They are all total idiots, they manufacture regular stepper for the same or higher price than you can do, and the moron stupid customers buy those crap stepper motors. What's happened Bridgette ? You guys at Tekno have taken notice of this phenomenom, that a servo is always better than a stepper for the same price, so the age of steppers is gone ? And you know this but no one else?
"That said, servos (ClearPath or otherwise) will always have the performance advantages shown in the video..."
This is true. Before you would mistake me very badly, I have to mention that I use almost only servos. But this video (and you) "forget" to mention something. The servo systems are better because usually every part of the system is better than a stepper system. They have better motor, better driver, better PS. And this is an obvious necessity. The motor must run on much higher speed. Many steppers can barely reach 2000 rpm, a servo just starts to feel good at 2000 rpm. The electrical signals are faster, you need a better DSP to control things, the SW in the DSP must be much better, the algorithm inside is more sophisticated than a stepper without feedback. These things are not free. I bet ClearPath motors are excellent, very good motors. For 2 times more money than similar stepper system. Actually they are not comparable. The question is always that : do I need the advantages of the servo for the higher price. I visited your web pages, and despite of my criticism here, probably I'll make a try with it, because it looks good quality, its worth a try :))
The most clever part of the above video, it suggests that the stepper system have the similar price level !!! Look at that a stepper system for $346, its about the entry level ClearPath, almost the same. And the ClearPath is obviously better! (actually and literally you don't lie at all !) Hahaha, this is bullshit, you mislead the people, and you put technical fudge next to it.
And of course you don't paraphrase deeply in the video when the servo has no advantage compared to stepper. Nothing at all. Low speed high torque, simple drives. In many cases a servo would be just 2 times more money for nothing. Choosing between stepper and servo is not so easy. And you don't make it easier at all. Sorry I abide by my first sentence "Yet another fake and staged comparison for sake of advertising."
i would say the upper limit a hobbyist owuld spend on one motor/unit is ~150$
so if in the future they can manage to lower the price they could compete with the chinese leadshine closed loop product.
great tech but i bought my nem 17 for 6$ at a promotion xD soooo its world away from that 300$
Blatant advertisement.