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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- After measuring a few android based head units, I wanted to find out how clean are brand name head units. And being an Alpine fanboy obviously, I got two Alpine units.
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More testing, more experiments, more fun!
Maybe you'll be able to test a Pioneer DEH-80PRS some day. I know some audiophiles swear that it is still the cleanest headunit you can get. I've always wondered what the data says
I am looking for one🙃
@@RAW-CAt I have one and with help i can measure it. My interface is digidesign m box 2.
@@alexmironov6861 are you a member of the facebook group "Distortion Factory"?
@@RAW-CAt Yes i am
@@alexmironov6861 I have used the interfaces since they came out, I can find nothing that can compare to them, the focusrite's or even the Audient ones I did not like the sound of, I do have a Roland Edirol UA25 as well that is not quite as good as the mbox 2 but it has 1/4 jack and rca outs and digi(optical) in/out which is useful for me as I have some AVI active speakers that have optical inputs.
I still have my Alpine CDE 296BT, was the last top of the line double din unit that they did, the BT is shit but the CD and USB are fabulous, it also has or can be run as an active three way, I like it because it give me great control over the sub level and can intergrate the front and rear with the sub really well given the choice between the choice between the slope of the filters(6-24db) I would love 48 db slopes but to be fair i run my front and rears at 63hz with 12db and the sub at 63hz with a 6db slope and get really good sound from passive system.
I do have one of those LDAC BT units in the post that will enable me to use my Audio Dynamics DSP 68 with an optical input, I also have a usb to optical on the way which I hope I can get to work with an ipad to see if I can get full digi into the DSP and then mount the ipad as a front end, we'll see eh.
should be pulling my 149bt soon, as I've started pulling amps again
Still rocking with alpine cde-178bt 👌 Only draw back is that its not capable to play flac thru usb..
I think its around 08 right around there. Iv got quite a few alpine head unit as well the media style decks are also really small. The older alpine are what people want because of the power out is 44=55 watts a channel and the rca out put 4v or more wich most decks now don't even offer that kinda output. That's if your in to big car audio systems. 💯👍✌️
SonyGSX80 is what I run.But back in the day alpine was my pick than eclipse decks became a thing now.Sony from there.thanks for the vid
i still have a mint condition alpine CDA-9855r i plugged it in a while back its still an exceptional unit and has active crossovers
The only head unit you can get in USA that is compariable is the UTE-73bt. I wish we had more options as it looks like this lineup includes some head units with better EQ and time alignment. I'm guessing they all use the same DAC and amplifier chip though. Great tests and analysis of the results. I notice a massive difference in quality with my UTE-73bt between aux input, bluetooth, and USB. I generally stick with USB. I have an older head unit that works better with my Alpine processor but since it only offers CD or CD-changer input, I can't get the best out of it without burning a bunch of CDs like it's 1999 again.
Thank you another great video. I’ve got a KD-X472BT and been really interested seeing test data or general technical info, Mainly to have an understanding of its various audio and eq functions and possibly maximise its capabilities. Haven’t found anything yet, don’t know if it released in that many regions tbh
It plays 100% clean if you reduce power level . There is a setting in JVC which limits high level output to 25 or 30 i guess. And thats damn clean.
Exactly Same board on my Kenwood 304 bt plays good clean up till 28/35.
And okayish clean uptill 32/35 volume.
Low level is almost clean like 33/35
the top one looks very similar to my CDA-9884 and it's from 2008, so pretty close to that is safe to say.
The CDA-9884 is equal in SQ to all models above it, just doesn't have all the features or motorized flapface.
I will be sending you one of my alpine 9861 . Measure it and compare. You will come to know what I talk about.
BTW you are doing great work. Keep up man.
Guys like you will definitely affirm my opinion of decrete equipment per functionality FTW in SQ.
Not the present day where a chip is use n throw jack of all and mater of none.
I have CDA9812RB, CDA7893R and CDA9853R, and i think the best sound is from 7893, second 9853 and the last is 9812 because it has the sharpest high tones. Nowe i use 9812 at home as a CD/Tuner/Pre with powerful Mosfet amplifier and also with EBL21 Single Ended tubes (1944 Philips output transformers). It sounds good on Dynaudio Esotec MW162GT and STX T.10.200.8.MSX.
Nerijus remember what i showed you almost 6 months back. When i sent you my old JVC 7406 gut vs Kenwood 304 bt gut.
The discrete chips implementation in old school vs the all in one single SOC chip in newer head units.
That smaller Ute mode PCB may turn out to be generic PCB shared among many different models and brands.
But the older one with bigger PCB is the one FTW. More systemic, more optimal and well documented signal path, more discrete chips from reputed manufacturers... And the best thing is their robustness and repairability.
But those newrer modls like this UTE with small PCB are almosy use and throw in case of a fault.
So that big PCB with cd meach in older will last generations and still be relatable.
I have a CDE-153BT lying around somewhere, thanks for reminding me 😂 no idea how closely related these models are though
100% vol clean units will be good on test bench. But olders with like 80to 90% clean power will be more pleasure to listen in real-time. Just keep the output power little bit limited to max.
Most head unit manufacturers design in a little bit of gain overlap to help compensate for lower level recordings.
! Would you do an old school comparison between the Alpine -123R and Pioneer DEH-80PRS? and also how it compares to the new school usb output!
Do you have an 80prs I can borrow?
Alpine 123r although an older alpine.goodie may stand no chance in front of 80.prs.
80prs has 3 Burr brown dacs that too discrete .
Some other old alpine is neede to match 80prs minus it's DSP Part.
I will dare to put my JVC dv7406 infront of 80prs . Since this particular JVC had 2 AKM dacs. And all other other are chips discetely.
But obviously minus the DSP part of 80prs
check out some of the low cost jvc single din units with high volt rca out 4-5v.
jvc kdx380bts
pioneer deh s62220bs (has cd playback which you should test to compare this with the 80prs output quality )
jvc kw-r950bts (plays hd flac files , so it should output upto 48khz without drop in signal and plays cd )
kenwood kdc bt782hd also has similar features. and should play upto 48khz without drop. low frequency response is very important for bass heads. if the bass rolls of below 100hz then that unit belongs to the trash bin. we should see flat line down to 20hz. and slight dip after that.
1. When you feed AUX input to older HUs, most of them will send the analog input of AUX Direct into E- volune master controller IC and further into RCA out. So basically in this case the thd+n depends upon AUXs input siganl's thd n + quality of Evolume ic and supporting electronic circuitry . But newer ones will feed AUX into all in one chip ( ex. STA 1080 or 10xx family chip from ST micro which is processor + dac + DSP+ interface host and much more) . So there is alot of processing+ dac+ adc conversions in newer ones. Hence feeding aux signal to both these totally different architectures units is not ideal approach to draw conclusions.
2. The fair comparison will be feeding both units with digital signals via CD or USB. So that in both units , decoder+ DAC + ADC + DSP will play the role and give analog out of RCA. This way you can make a fair comparison.
3. Yeah further how amplifier IC of each unit perfoems is another factor.
4. And never ever the AUX to RCA path of one HU will perform similar or somwhat better than CD or USB to RCA of other. For sure USB/CD to RCA of olders will outperform the AUX to RCA of any of them.
5. Let me grant you , the DACs of older ones will be folds better than DAC of newer ones where in newer ones DAC is a subsystem of main chip and not discrete unit.
6. And lastly the little bit distortion in high volume zone of older ones will sound more pleasing than When you feed AUX input to newer HUs,
7. Lastly if RCAs of HU 1 is not so cleaner than that of HU2, then amplifier high level of HU 1 will definitely even not so clean.
P.S. harmonics to some extent/ scenarios may turn more pleasent .
next time somebody asks me why i still use my alpine dva-7996 (2002) i will direct them here.😁
Exactly.... But they don't trust. Untill they have to .
They say is modern tech foolish? Well it is,actually. Rather I would say modern tech makes them foolish
What are you guys talking about? That new entry-level Alpine has really amazing performance.
@@JasonWW2000 yeah. But as amazing as older ones?
@@user-bs9wd7cj8q I feel your missing the point.
"The older one has 0.01% less distortion. Yeah! It's superior!"
In real life you can't hear that. So why should it be thought of as amazing?
They both seem like great performers to me.
hello.i wonder what happens to the measurements when you combine multiple devices together.for example what will happen if you add at the cde 123 an analog crossover.even if the crossover have better measurements i beleive the distortion and noise will add up.imagine using pr 80 or even a stand alone dsp vs a high end old school deck plus analog eq plus analog crossovers.i think the difference will huge for the newer technologies
Good test can be CDE vs CDA vs F1 Status from the same years.
It could be done, however the F1 cost mega money and no one will borrow me one. CDE vs CDA is possible.
What about the UTE 200BT vs UTE 92BT? I currently own the 200BT and I want to switch to the UTE 92BT because it has a built-in DSP.
🤷
How did you build the resistor box?
10:10
th-cam.com/video/vmNmqa-OKHs/w-d-xo.html
Androids units output ( 90% of them) will never match with these older alpines or kens or JVC s or pios .
Simple argument to support this is that in Androids , sound engine is just a sub system of main system. Whreas in older HUs, sound system is main part and rest are subsystems.
In hope this makes sense.
You can relate it to an expert system(audio ) with some other subsystems and on other hand an processing machine with audio part as its one of subsystems.
maybe you could add a CD measurement? or at least test the theory that it's similar to AUX, I'm not that sure about that. Don't take it bad, but I kinda feel that you might be a bit biased by the fame of "oldschool", and take the CD is better by granted. Remember that you were always focused on facts rather than guessing!
To me it looks like UTE wins in a daily usage, which is USB audio nowadays (or I'd even say that nowadays it's streaming)
I would like to test the CD, however I need to find someone in the UK to burn me one..
Really disappointed in the new alpine .
Why? It looked really impressive.
@@JasonWW2000 dacs have gotten better and cheaper and yet the frequency response falls off a cliff and is not even as flat as the old one.
@@paulgood2218I wonder if you're misunderstanding the graph he's showing at 11:00.
It may look like it's falling off a cliff, but it's actually not. It's 1 dB down at 20 Hz and 1 dB down at 20K. This is not anything you're going to hear.
If you're looking at it from the point of view of a head unit designer you can think of it as "lesser quality", but from the point of view of an end user/buyer, it's absolutely fine and will not be noticeable.
@@JasonWW2000 I'm not misunderstanding the graph , it falls off a cliff above 20k the so called hi ress area. And the fact it performed worse than the older model . As I said dac chips are way cheaper and better than ever before. The newer model should not be beat in frequency response , or distortion. I'm very disappointed because in order for the newer model to perform worse they literally had to use the cheapest parts possible. And again this is in comparison to the older model. Yes the alpine does ok compared to some Chinese no name models but then again it really ain't enough
@@paulgood2218Neither unit is certified as high-res so you can't expect anything above 20K, anyway.
I'm not sure what you where expecting. You do realize the older unit cost more than double the newer unit, right?
I don't even know how Alpine can release a unit that costs around $100. They definitely had to use extremely cheap components, yet the performance is surprisingly good.
Anybody that actually cares about sound quality and specs, like you and I, are not going to buy a $100 Alpine head unit. These bottom end, entry-level units are aimed at people who just want some music and aren't that concerned about the frequency response being + - 1dB from 20 to 20k.
I know i am gonna irritate you man with my contractions.
But trust me , its constructive contradictions we both being leaners. And not something to proove youe so much haard.work wrong. No never.
My opinion is just postive mutual learning intended.
That 90% you said is CD player module and rest almost same im both. Its not appropriate to say. The main PCB alone with the no of different ICs each performimg a discreet task and quality of electronic components and their quality is the key.
BTW many of old and some new HUs have the decoders and DACs built into pcb of CD/ DVD player. All imput interfaces send the signal to CD/DVD mechanism for processing and DAC and retuem analog to main PCB .
Hence saying that bothh these are alike minus the CD unit may not be appropriate to say.
I will always bet on HU with CD/DVD payer mechanism for quality of sound rather than its meach less counterpart model .