I´m literally crying... that scene MUST be in the main game, as a Maya main i think at least if u kill her, give her her goddamm funeral with Krieg there... My heart is broken but still hope they fix something...
This doesn't even feel like a deleted scene. Deleted scenes are usually just a possible alternative to what the creators ultimately went with. This just deadass feels like they left out the most important scene.
@@MetisLeigh427 Two completely different directions.... I think its worst honestly if it was deleted because as has been said they thought she was good. A brat incapable of taking responsibility. Her emotions are all about her the two she has. Even if we were to say nothing was her fault she would see it as hers. Thats human. I think thats a huge part of the problem with characters these days in general movies or games. They don't really have human emotions. Meaning we can't relate we can't empathize with something we don't understand.
I guess because people use that to say a character has bad writing, when in reality a well written character could have an extremely annoying personality. Doesn't really make it better, since that's still just up to the viewer themselves to decide whether they like them or not. I HATED Ava to the point where I would disregard anything she said or did for the rest of the story. It sucks now, looking at these deleted scenes all that time later, and seeing how she redeemed herself in my own personal bias by actually being a well written character. There's a lot of strange, shady stuff that happened with this game's development lmao
@@Pancaketophat I mean a well written character is nice but I wouldn’t really say that means I have to like them. Like I just couldn’t stand lelouch from code geass cuz he acted like a redditor wet dream in the small portion of the show I watched. Apparently he’s written really well and the show is too but just his absolute douchebagery combined with his perfection immediately turned me off. Especially since like I said before, he sounds like how a redditor sees themself.
Youre telling me we couldve had a scene where even KRIEG shows up to pay respects!? Damn Gearbox, wasted chance. Krieg's meat bicycle will always be half empty now.
Even the Krieg DLC was a wasted opportunity, theres not even a reference to Meat Bicycles.. Most of the DLCs sidequests are pretty bad too Hell, theres barely any cool Krieg ish gear. Id kill for a Flame of the Firehawk shield (one of Kriegs BiSs for Bl2)
You mean to tell me... they discarded a genuinely hearbreaking scene between Ava and the others. Where she's angry, and sad, and lashing out in a believable way after her best friend was killed right in front of it. It still isn't perfect, but it's a DAMN sight better than what we got! Why didn't we get THIS scene!?
Well originally bl3 didn't have cutscene skips. So i think they might of been worried bogging the gameplay down with long unskipable cutscene. Especially on repeat playthroughs. Still a massively stupid decision
My thoughts exactly, these scenes bring out genuine character growth for Ava. What they should have done honestly was make these scenes fully animated and added them to the game for free.
@@eclipsedarksouls6036 there is already a 4min Cutscene and if they thought that this scene was too long (btw there are two different Cutscenes and a mission between them) why didn't they give us Cutscene skips right away
The conversation between Lilith and Ava on the cliffside is functionally exactly what Ava's story needed. Whoever cut this needs to not be in charge of these sorts of decisions anymore
@FATEd Pondera fr, for the amount of bs lines we get they couldn’t have left out a few of those long running corny jokes and replace them with better writing for the main.
Literally whoever is in charge of the dialogue or writing for the main story shouldn’t be used ever again, I literally don’t know how they could write villains so terribly after handsome Jack
They really said… “yea this scene is really a good send off for the character of maya and it makes sense how the characters who knew her reacted… let’s cut it” 😃
Because you played her in 2 she didnt get her story fleshed out like Mord, Roland, Lilith, and Brick. She got hamstrung by the bullshit story in 3. Which was garbage.
@iam_Ooracle She got one scene and died what are you talking about. You got work with everyone else in 2 from one for most of the game. Comparing her story to bloodwing isnt the same.
@iam_Ooracle Where did this come from. My response was to the Op of this one threadh where he said Bloodwings had more and an impact then Maya. When Maya had way less storyline. Maya was one of my favorite characters and i think shit got completely fucked.
Krieg's life is on a downward spiral(before his dlc) he lost his family, lost his mind, watched as the only person who understood him walked away never to see her again. He was in shadows at her funeral this guy had it tough
That's why I loved him so much. He lost literally everything, even himself. But he was still vault hunting and trying to save the world after meeting Maya, his one glimmer of hope.
@@vonborgah made a good story? Did you just call bl3 story good? I mean to each their own, but like.... can I interview you? You seem to have the exact opposite opinion of everyone in the entire world and I think it would be an interesting news story.
the whole funeral thing could have been a great way to bring Axton and Salvadore to the story as well to pay their respects and fight alongside Zero against the Calypsos
@ZeraSeraphimyou're garbage at the game, it's OK. Arms race is the only thing anyone ever opens up the game for anymore. Literally all content in borderlands is repetitive and boring. Arms race is the only thing that slightly changes things up. Idk though, BL3 sucks balls. I still play BL2.
@@TheGanjologistnot once did I say it was hard, I was responding to the person who was complaining about it being hard. Maybe learn to read before making yourself look like a fool? If there's anything to take away from this exchange is that you're a nonce.
Ava leading the crimson raiders made no sense, any of bl3 vault hunters are way better suited, heck i say amara or moz would be more than happy to to lead a rag tag group to find vaults fighting and getting good loot, even axton made way more sense staying with the raiders, but for some reason the made him into a model a just never appeared in game, which again in the presequal in his echo convos with gaige he looked like he settled in well with the raiders so him leaving to become a model kinda feels forced
@giannicolamatteo8155 why not tannis? Or ellie? Marcus? Heck why not moxxi? Any of these would be a good choice instead of a girl who barely had any connection to the crimson raiders. And axton from bl2 would have been a good choice due to him being a design successor to Roland. Bringing him back to tap him for command would be a good dlc, including dealing with the interactions of others on the ship
The whole deleted cutscene was perfect way to maya to honor maya, and redeem Ava( with her accepting that it’s her fault and hinting at her potential). And Lilith being such a good listener and guide shows that she matured too. Hit as hard as Roland’s funeral in the Tina dlc
As good as this missing cutscene is... I don't think it'd fix the underlying problem of the story overall. Take Maya's death as a particular example. She uses a phaselock to bring Troy into a headlock, which immediately puts her in a vulnerable position. Not because Troy would leech her (cause she doesn't know about it) but because Maya is trying to headlock someone who is both taller than her and also has a big metal arm, rather than keeping him in a phaselock which is not only safer but more practical.
That deleted scene should have stayed in the story. Having Troy betray Tyreen would have made getting Maya's powers actually feel somewhat worth it at the end of the story.
Troy seemed to have potential character growth during Eden-6. The way he was starting to one-up Tyreen now that he had his own powers. He didn't have to rely on Tyreen to live. Having real power for the first time, I could imagine Troy becoming more power hungry than Tyreen. Imagine if Troy had survived after the vault hunters defeated him, he would have leeched Tyreen completely just to stay alive. To see him become more of a monster than he already was in the game and finally fighting him as the final boss. That would have been so much better than what we got with Tyreen the Destroyer.
Troy also didn't want to leave Typhon, Troy should have been the final boss, honestly Gearbox really flopped on this game and should have been better thought out.
I’m convinced that they animated this after the release of the game. They saw the backlash from her character and wanted to save her image. There is no way they left this out of the game but put a cube on nekrotafeyo that drops loot.
I mean it makes sense seeing as the 2nd "season pass" doesn't include anything story wise except an Ava thing. Legit slapped together another season pass for a fake BR mode and to try to redeem a character they KNEW they had to since they were making her the new leader. They knew if they left it as is, interest in a BL4 would be tanked from the get-go unless it had even more new mechanics.
Meaning the game would be more work since development would largely go towards the new mechanics instead of the story. Cheaper and easier to slap this stuff together so they can focus more on the narrative of the next game :/
I wouldn't put it past them. Look how other franchises are treated nowadays. If this was animated before release then it's only proof of their contempt for the fans and the legacy characters. They so perfectly disrespect all the old characters for it to be a fluke.
In your eyes maybe, in my eyes it still doesn't change 3 things: that she was one of the 2 people to kill Maya, that it doesnt change all the other scenes where she was a a complete ass, even after the Maya's death and that literally anyone else, even Claptrap would be a better choice for a new leader and would make more sense than her.
I played ALL the missions in the base game, though not any of the dlc, so I feel like I’m allowed to say, god damn Claptrap had a better claim to sanctuary by the end of it all.
I played all of the DLC and a lot of it is really good. But it doesn't redeem Ava lol. Maybe on its own it could but I was already so annoyed by her by that point I was just completely turned off
I literally squealed seeing Krieg in the scene that was cut... It would have made me so emotional if I had actually seen that in the game as well. And with the first scene I actually felt some pity for Ava, and not boiling hatred for her. These scenes wouldn't have made her my favorite character from the game, but I at least wouldn't have hated her with a burning passion. They would've made her an actually relatable character, and not just something I wish would've gotten killed off instead of Maya.
@@tra12048 Yes, that scene should be in canon. I despise Ava a little less now, but it really hurts how they treated us with loss of Maya in the first place. Roland had his tribute alongside with Bloodwing, and Scooter had a heartwarming cameos after he catched his last ride. Tribute to Maya was neglected. And now realising this, I'm mad again, gaaaaah!
Ava struck me as a very shallow character who refused to grow up or change. The fact that she was then given the metaphorical world on a silver platter after all her recklessness cemented her in my mind as Borderland's worst written character so far.
So. This scene gave Ava some depth as well as giving Maya a proper sendoff? And they cut it out because..... yeah. I don’t know. There is no reason why anyone would cut out such a well written scene like this! This would’ve been one of the most impactful moments in the whole series!
just my guess: borderlands 3 got released at times where the toxic part of feminismus has reached its peak. maybe thats why they changed the direction to nasty ava. to appeal to those. i know it sounds crazy because it was horrible but i cant find any other reason and its just a guess.
Seeing Zer0, the perfect assassin, unknown identity and modulated voice, throw the dust or whatever into the fire is so much. Zer0 doent show emotions besides "this sword is cool. This sniper is good at killing" but he fought beside Maya and developed a love for her, that kinda love you get for family. Not even to mention Kreig, as trapped in his own brain as he is, with his own form of love for Maya and his dependence on her that was seen from his trailer to the end, in his recordings trying to get his own personality under control, its so heartbreaking that he never got himself under the control he wanted to tell her how much she meant to him. The one person that showed hope in him gaining himself again.
Jesus CHRIST. How can any SANE writer not keep in a scene like that. That was one of the first times I actually got emotional from something in this series. I swear to god, this entire plot needs to be retconned when the next game, if and when it ever releases.
It was indeed emotional, but I think people (including myself) didn't really like it because ti doesn't really follow the chaotic spirit of the franchise. One really cool thing about Borderlands is that you could say that pretty much everyone is crazy in their own way, following little to no rational impulses to get whatever they want. That's what makes characters so charismatic and likable, from heroes to villains, everyone shares the same "crazy spirit"... And I feel like in this Borderlands there was too much "Hollywood stuff" with long monologues and speeches about saving Pandora, and restoring peace and stop evil and honoring the memory of the fallen... And Ava was pretty much in the center of all that. For me it killed the vibe and tone of the entire franchise. I don't play Borderlands to get emotional with the characters and the story, I do it to experiment the mayhem and chaos of Pandora and its inhabitants... But of course everyone has their own preferences so...
@That Guy ok i agree with you on some level. But for this games for the sake of making ava even somewhat a likable character, this scene needed to be in the game. Once borderlands 4 eventually happens, even if it is the chaotic game that you want, every single player is going to hate Ava since they already had a bad taste in their mouth before starting the game
Ava's attitude was based asf, all I interpreted it as is an overprotective situation that happened to get out of hand. "Player didn't feel sorry for her" it wasn't why the writers wanted to do it, like yeah the tone of the situation is off, because it has the comedic intent, it clearly uses a comedic trope so I don't see how a player was meant to feel sorry for it. I don't remember any of the dialogue he showed, I remember the part of dialogue Ava has when you visit her Cabin more so.
yes to me it looks like the main problem with what we got was that it was lazily done. They had the two well thought out scenes yet didnt bother to animate them both. They tried to cram them both together with bits and peices of different dialogue and completely ruined the feeling of all of it
You’re actually onto something big. These scenes could literally fix a major part of the story that failed in borderlands 3(maybe not fix the entire story but definitely a critical part). I think that signing a petition to get these scenes put into the game will actually do better for the borderlands story itself and will get fans to be able to better move on over the games faults.
@@shellj4927 I honestly have to say I really like the story of BL3 despite it having flaws. I wouldn't say I prefer it over BL2's story, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be
So. Two scenes, where Ava's personality was DRASTICLY different. And where characters are actually faithfull to themselves. Suprisingly thoughtful. Too bad whoever was the idiot behind production, decided to cut those two saving scenes. Thanks for showing this to us.
While the deleted scenes give clarity to the Ava story i think they were deleted because they gave her to much of the front and centre, the same could be said for Lilith (e.g. -Talk to Lilith) but as an established character she was spared the treatment.
Would have honestly made the game's story at least 50% better than it was. But if you really pay attention, you could tell the writers wanted to take the story a different direction, but ultimately whoever the jackass was that had final say over the story made it as bland as possible. Like, there was a point they were setting up a betrayal between Troy and Tyreen, either Troy betraying Tyreen or Tyreen betraying Troy, dialogue which occurs on Eden-6 I believe. And then the canned cutscenes shown in this video, which would have at least made people not absolutely HATE Ava if nothing else.
11:53 This absolutely needed to be in the game. It shows you that however crappy Ava behaved before it was just that…..her trying to process her feelings. But hearing her say “why did she waste it on me” really shook me. I think we’ve all had someone in our lives before who never gave up on us even when we couldn’t understand why they would keep going. That one line seriously shows all of the growth that would’ve avoided Ava being hated by everyone
its obvious that the """deleted scene""" was written after the fact. She never stopped being an annyong cringe brat; that scene wouldve atleast warrant a tiny change in her attitude
@@KM____________ Then why have a story at all? It could be like other shooters with no story, and thats fine. Why half ass it? Thats a lazy, shitty cop-out.
@@giovannimarini3730 that would be me loool. For real, I would animate this scene and all for NO money. Its just love what it needs. Not just the damn money. It's always about the money
There could’ve been a mission similar to Jackie’s funeral is cyberpunk. You go into maya’s house and find 3 sentimental objects for mayas funeral, the hook is that their is roughy 6 optional objects to choose. Object 1: a picture of maya and Krieg kissing with Ava mentioning as you pick it that maya really liked that man. Object 2: a broken old school Maliwan weapon. Ava mentions that maya love to use that weapon before coming to Athenas. Object 3:a eridian carved statue of maya with the inscription from Gaige saying “see ya later, but not in memory” Object 4: a Dahl medal from axton Object 5: a coupon for a beer with Salvador writtens saying “any time an any place, amigo” Object 6 (secret): handsome jacks mask fragment. Each of these would have the vault hunters make a comment on the object before on. When it time for the funeral, you place the objects onto the stone and watch as each person makes there peace. An optional quest moment is given to you, it requires the vault hunter to say their peace and mourn for maya. Each vault hunter will say something different about her Rough drafts Zane: As a bounty hunter, it is known we usually burn a lot of bridges when we work but even though my time with was short, could tell you all nothing will burn that bridge down. She was a strong woman and she knew what she wanted...the next drink I get, I’m pouring out for her. Amara: being a siren my self, I had never thought I would encounter another siren once I came to pandora. Maya was the 4th siren that met and she was everything I expected and more from a siren sister. Moze: as we say in the ursa Core, the brighter the full burns the faster it is going to go out. Maya was a person lighted the way for many others, it is sad that she did it without thanks. Fl4k: Maya was if not a star here with us all, and now as sit here mourning, look above and think that the night sky just gained another star. (Fl4k starts to sing amazing grace in binary before leaving)
this sounds like a genuin good idea, i think bl2 hunters just got the axe entirely, and mordekai brick and tina got fucked aswell. some of those things should have been connected
my biggest problem with her was how she blamed EVERYONE ELSE for mayas death when she is so clearly the one who got her killed because she disobeyed orders and tried to be a badass
I like how for whatever reason, Lillith gets the achievement of killing Jack. It's totally not like the point of BL2 was that the old vault hunters couldn't beat Jack and needed new blood to do so. "Roland, Lilith, and Mordecai -- he defeated them long ago. They can help you reach him, but in the end...it will be you who brings Jack down." But hey, let's just indirectly crap on BL2's story by doing things like that or killing Maya off disrespectfully.
I mean, Maya was the one telling Ava that story. She couldve easily taken the credit of hunting down Jack. But she chose to give the credit of killing him to Lilith instead
Also the fact that of you kill the guardian and moonshot his head jack will be standing there and lilith tells you to finish him off. If you dont do it within a few second she kills him
On top of that you have her legacy carried on by a spoiled wannabe bad girl who led you her death in the first place than has the nerve to pin Lilith pin this, I didn’t feel Ava at all sees so unreal how she didn’t acknowledge that she was the one to blame. I think this is hashed out way better and should be canon. That being said the canon response woulda worked for e IF
@@fireworkstarter I never got to see that since as soon as jack started talking I immediately put a bullet in his head thinking it was scripted and I wouldn't be able to actually hurt him.
Ok so why would they cut this!? A heart wrenching funeral scene, where even Kreig shows up to pay his respects. Ava coming off as a normal teenage girl and not seeming like a brat. They really messed up there.
@@johnk.7523 Yes, the funeral scene was. I'm talking about when Ava causes Maya's death and how she flipped out on Lilith and the rest. I liked the original scene where she just gets angry and storms off. That was more realistic. Unless that was added too?
@@pilledpilled Probably the leader of the Crimson Raiders. My guess would be she’s searching for Lillith as it was hinted in the credits that she isn’t dead. I wouldn’t mind this as they could use the opportunity to show some growth on her part. Maybe some whole conversation where she admits she was in denial over losing Maya and is determined to do right by the Raiders. She’s not the first character to be loathed initially. Thinking back Ashoka is a great example of this in the Clone Wars tv show.
Crazy how 1-2 cutscenes worth like 10 minutes of gametime could have cemented an entire character as a future lead. Instead, we have this uncertainty for the future of an incredible and unique franchise.
Gearbox is woke now. Woke companies don't see it as critique from consumers, they see it as a personal attack from deranged bigots. Borderlands 4 will be a stagnant and uninspired mess because the devs only hear what they want to hear from people. lol random = good good writing/storytelling= bad
I really wish these scenes had happened, especially since I actually liked Ava. She came off as angry, confused, and uncertain. Someone that needed help, and guidance. Then, she lost her guide. I felt horrible for her (as well as for losing Maya, of course), because she clearly needed help becoming someone worthy of the role of Maya's prodigy.
@@Subject_Keter what happened was that Mikey Neumann, incredible guy, writer for BL2, and initial lead writer for BL3, (and voice of Scooter), developed multiple sclerosis which got worse and worse as production went along, so had to step away amicably for his own health. No firing here.
Killing Maya was a huge mistake. She was one of the most popular characters, she had that surprisingly touching arc with Krieg going, yet they casually offed her in favor of that horrible brat.
It's incredible how much talent the writers have and how much it was wasted. Those two scenes are really good but it's like the company said "There's no laughs, why are people not laughing? Make the twins send them a meme video making fun of Maya's death lmao"
The twins doing that could've been ok for the story if they didn't have us hating Ava more than them. Just like how Jack killing Roland made it personal, this would've made it personal, a grudge beyond "o no they're doing bad thing" But they put it at the very beginning of the game, right after introducing Ava, very clearly showing SHE caused Maya's death, and very clearly showing her not having any remorse for it. They killed Maya too early, and with the way they did it, they killed Ava's future as a likeable character.
@@Vaylon. if they made ava goes “oh shit, my bad. Gotta train harder and not be a dumbass so this won’t happen ever again” while still keeping some of her Zoomer personality, she’ll be just like Tina (kinda). But we got a whiny “I’m better than you even though you got like 20 years experience of Vault Hunting while I have 0” brat instead
Maya would have had a funeral of some kind. It's just that it occurred completely off screen. In fact, I think the Director's Cut should have also added in that funeral as a post game quest along with Ava's mystery podcast sidequest.
Apples and Oranges. Lilith was a full-grown woman, leading an entire bandit gang who was hopped up on her Eridium powers from liquifying people. Lilith was on a huge fucking power trip that was completely unchecked, paired with strings of successes that included getting Roland back, invading and destroying multiple Hyperion bases, basically flipping Jack off constantly, and killing Wilhelm. Her showing up was completely irresponsible and dumb as shit, terrible writing that needlessly got Roland killed. Lilith is directly responsible for the death of Roland. Ava is a kid who has been denied basic respect over and over again from those she looks up to, and was constantly talked down to. Every single adult in Borderlands treats her like an accessory, and even Maya didn't really take the time to understand her. Her actions were obvious from the start, she absolutely was going to that Vault because nobody made any actual attempt to keep her from doing so. Maya and the rest of that convent were shit guardians. They took a little time to actually connect with Ava, this wouldn't happen. Ava is a child, not an adult like everyone around her. Wait shit, you're right. My bad. Roland and Maya died from the exact same thing: Fully grown adults who lead organizations and kill thousands of people, making the worst choices possible to move the plot along. Weird how it's accepted in BL2 and not BL3. Handsome Jack really did carry that game for some people.
Ava directly got maya killed. Shes old enough to know to follow what maya says. She had up to that point, and yet still knowingly followed her and after being explicitley told not to, she still went down. Ava was not a victim. Yeah yeah she has a sad backstory. She wasnt denied any respect, she hadn't earned it. Maya trusted her, and ava cared about her, but not enough to listen to her and by not listening, got her friend killed then blames it on someone else. Roland died because he knew the risks. Even while telling lilith not to come with him. It was known jack was looking for sirens, and if he got ahold of one he wouldve used them for his own personal gain. Lilith went anyway because she wanted to take down handsome jack too. She was absolutely impulsive, yet she somwwhat took it seriously. Ava came because she wanted to see a vault. She wanted to see a fight, and have loot, to be there with maya. Ava didnt take it seriously. they both got those they cared about killed. Roland's death meant more since jack was seen as an actual threat for the whole game. We knew what he was capable of. The siren twins were so carefree and young, hungry for power. The point is Lilith and maya have similarities in how they got their loved ones killed, but ava was more careless while Lilith was impulsive. @DamienDarkside
I'm of the belief that Ava is actually Randy's little fan creation and she was forced to be a pivotal character in the franchise moving forward. From Maya dying and giving Ava her siren powers, to Lilith making her Commander, and possibly being a future playable character. The entire game felt like someone's bad fan fiction.
You seriously think Randy has written a word on a production like this? If he would be messing with the game on that level, every game-designer would've quit half-way through the project.
Probably because it WASN'T put on the back burner. This reeks so hard of "Guys, this was TOTALLY cut content! LOOK, WE KNOW HOW TO WRITE." levels of coverup for the literal fucking failure that is BL3's plothole ridden writing.
@@-ShiraZen- Honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I just hope they learn from this and don't ruin borderlands 4 or the last borderlands with a shitty story. Also funny seeing you here lol.
I don't think this was in response to the backlash because they don't turn Ava into a different character, they just handle her character better. She's still lashing out and deflecting responsibility but it's done in a way that makes it easier for the audience to understand and puts us in Ava's head as she mourns the death of Maya. You can't just wake up and decide to be a good writer, and knowing how awful triple AAA companies are when giving game devs and authors time to work out the kinks I think it's more realistic to assume that: they had the first half of Ava's story finished but didn't know how to conclude it so they just used the placeholder storybeats for her and shiped the game.
One of the worst things to me is how you never get to talk to or see Krieg react to Maya’s death. That little bit in the story board would’ve been all I needed.
Without this deleted scene, does the player know at any point in the main story that Krieg's learned about Maya's death? Because I was dead sure that on his DLC we would be shown him learning about it and going apeshit. Until the point in the DLC that he mentions her I never understood that it was established that he knew about her death at some point. I was expecting some heart breaking, gut wrenching scene and was left just "wait....so he knows?...and this DLC is not about that?...oh...."
Mordecai screaming when Bloodwing died teared me up more than Maya's weird sudden death even though I've never played the first Borderlands and Maya was even the first character I picked up 💀
I absolutely despise when the only way writers think they can introduce a new characters is by sacrificing an established, beloved one. Maya for Ava, Aurelia for Jacobs. BL3 seems quite amauterish in writing, which is beyond unfortunate
your expecting caviar from mcdonald's and were disappointed, who didnt see that coming... if you play borderlands for its story, your like a women who is a prostitute for the great sex and not the money... Borderlands games pro's: combat, characters are funny, environment is always interesting to explore and thats it... cons: story sucks ass, always has, get over it
You had me at the first part but the second part with Aralia hammerlock sister is a horrible comparison because she literally is what her character is a backstabbing bitch
the story is good though and Aurelia and maya weren’t that great anyways. I’d only want maya around for the krieg connection honestly if nobody died there wouldn’t really be much of a sense of threat you being upset the character you liked dying isn’t equivalent to bad story. And it’s also lame you pretend you determine what good writing is.
A very small part of me thinks, these scenes were made much later after seeing the reaction to Ava, because there is no good reason for these scenes to be removed
Oh sure, they'd do that _if they wanted to get _*_lynched._* The fans were upset at how they handled Ava. I'm pretty confident they'd be _even more_ upset if they learned that Gearbox _could've_ wrote this character- as well as this story- better, but deliberately _didn't._
I feel after the story got raked over the coals a writer said: see I told you so, and presented their revised script and then they recorded it and gave it an animatic to test the water on how it went down. Maybe there's a way to track the money and see if Lilith, Ava, Ellie, and Tannis had recording sessions after release.
I honestly cannot shake the annoying thought that these were made after the games release. Even people without any writing experience at all can see how important this scene is.
That was my thought too. I watched the scene and I just can't believe that this was not made afterwards to appease people and try to save the narrative (and sales and interest) of Ava being of importance on the next instalment.
These 2 cutscenes could not have only made Ava an infinitely better character, but it could’ve also made Lilith a more like able considering people don’t like her very much either
The video: "Everyone blames the writers immediatly, but this proves they knew what they were doing. Someone else down the line cut it out" This guy:* Blames the writer immediatly. *
@@TheHermesLP this doesnt prove anything, do you really think they would make something that good and then just ignore it completely, only for it to be replaced by the "oh no, Maya, she's broken"
@@peepeepoopoo5396 they were just too lazy to animate that pretty animation. Thats why they put 5 character models in a circle and let 2 chars talk to eachother in the final edit
I cried just knowing the fact that Kreig’s heart shattered when maya died, she was, well unique and the perfect vault hunter. Kudos to Kreig for keeping his sanity in tact. 😞
10:39 I dont know why but the subtle inclusion of marcus showing up at the funeral shown grieving like everyone else is such a good addition (that they didn’t go with) to the scene. At best it shows he’s a lot more complicated of a character with a lot of room for development. At worst it shows that he knows when to back down and be respectful with no nonsense. It would’ve been nothing but a good thing to show.
The cynical part of me can’t help to think that this wasn’t actually a deleted scene but something they came up with for the Director’s Cut due to the backlash.
@@SirMysticRob The damage is already done... and most BL fans have moved on not caring for Ava or anything that they have in store for her. It was the experience that mattered in the end and it was completely shattered
@@Managuabrother I guess. I'm in the minority then, because I didn't particularly like or dislike her. The games are still amazing and it didn't ruin the overall story for me. It just wasn't as good as the story for BL2, but to say it wasn't good is exaggerating. It still would be nice if they added the better scene for future players and it would be a bit of a correction to better show her possible development moving forward. They better fix her/her presentation as she grows, and that will solve things, even though people won't agree right now as usual because it hasn't happened yet, it will become apparent if they do it right. They definitely are capable of it as long as they don't make further bad decisions of what to use vs what's better, and they usually do well. Plus, teenagers suck anyway, so she could be a much better adult as is realistic. Jumping to a permanent conclusion when the character themself isn't recurring or an adult yet is silly and all too common.
Number 1 flaw of Ava: Shes putting on a facade to mask her feelings. Story fails to show under the facade and show her vulnerability. Those cut scenes actually had that.
Borderlands has an issue sometimes of trying to only throw comedy. Which is what makes the Bounty of Blood DLC so good. There is some humor yes but a majority of it is all just a serious and good story.
I dont want to see her vulnerability. I’m tired of her bitching. Look at krieg or tiny tina. Far better characters with a FAR darker background. And they are the most upbeat crazy awesome badass characters. Ava just bitches.... complaining the whole story. they need to get rid of her. I want her to be a side character. Not the main character.
@@gamemight1028 Tina is obviously trying to mask her own trauma with explosions and Krieg is well utterly insane and shows he is a polar opposite to what we see. I feel like if your sincerely thinking that Ava not showing her facade slipping wouldnt make the game better you have the same mindset as the people who think that someone being silent and stoic with no really other personality traits makes them good
@@trashypunkman7559 but the point is is that they aren’t a Lil annoying bitch who complains 24/7 and blames others for something you did. They are more in need of help then someone like her.
@@trashypunkman7559 comedy is what makes borderlands “borderlands”. People like you need to stay away from the game cause I fear like y’all will make it as bad as “the last of us 2”
The failing in Borderlands 3's writing isn't with Ava. It's with Lilith. There are so many things they did wrong with Lilith, her (total lack of) leadership, and her sudden shift in attitude at the very end. These scenes help shore up the problems I may have had with Ava, but the truth is that I never had problems with Ava. I had problems with Lilith. For all of Ava's brattiness, if Lilith had just done something to put her in place...or not completely capitulated to her both before the final mission and during the end sequence...that would have been the single best improvement they could have made to the story.
As much as I dislike what they did with Ava, Lilith definitely got scalped in between borderlands 2 and 3, she made way more mistakes (somehow leaving a power vacuum by just not interfering with the cov in the 5 years between hector's dlc and bl3 even though she had the most powerful private military on the planet, practically allowing the twins to take her powers, just standing at the helm pretending to do things and being useless, knowing she has guns and can still use them, while Roland, Mordecai, and Brick, people who never had siren powers, were still on the front lines, her being mostly uninvolved story-wise for 50% of the game, never notifying Axton, Salvador, or Gaige of Maya's death or Pandora being in danger, etc.), and I guess it's fine because...?
The worst part is that Telltale pretty much already setup some pieces for the future of the franchise, then Randy or whoever was in charge messed it all up.
@@ivanivan744 Their failure to utilise Tales left me with a disgust i usually reserve for plague vermin, or a beached whale full of expired mayonnaise left to rot in the core of a dying sun
That post-death and funeral scene legit made me tear up. That was beautifully written and voiced. Its criminal that they cut those. But left 60% of the Callisto twin scene that they did in.
During the awkward scene where everyone gathers around for Maya's death, when Ava started blaming Lilith I literally shot her to the point of accidentally killing myself out of frustration. That cut scene with her and Lilith gives me more respect for her and I would much rather believe that that scene is cannon and that what we got isn't
I'm a relative newcomer to Borderlands; my wife and I started playing them about two years ago and have worked through 1, 2, Pre-Sequel, and 3 along with the overwhelming majority of DLC, and I gotta say... Though 3 was the most recent one we've played, I remember T.K. Baha with distinct clarity while I couldn't actually remember who Ava was until I started watching this video.
The minute you said T.K. Baha I immediately thought of his first words in BL1: "YOU!!?! ONE MORE STEP AND IT'LL BE YOUR LA- - (starts laughing) You should've seen the look on your face! (continues hysterical laughter)
Imagine my fury, pre-ordering the ultimate edition for $100 only to be told that there's an entire other season pass that my season pass doesnt cover, and that my ultimate edition with "all post game content" only has half of the content, im furious
Its so sad to see Krieg standing off behind the rocks in the funeral scene, part of me believes hes doing it because both sides of him (Sane and Insane) are scared of just how he will react, or he just feels his presence might ruin the moment, with how difficult it is for him to communicate given he is a Psycho. Gotta feel bad for one of my favorite vault hunters man.
Nailed it. Never an apology or any self-awareness from Ava or push back from anybody about how Ava distracted Maya and her death could’ve been avoided.
But at the same time, is it really a problem when the writing would have had Maya die anyway no matter what? They had her stupidly physically grab Troy instead of holding him hostage with her psylock. She didn't need to physically threaten him as a siren...it was the writing making her be fucking more stupid than she was shown to be in previous game. Or how about how Lilith allowed two sirens to go down to deal someone that stole her powers and is well known can take powers? Maya shouldn't have even gone down. It's really not on Ava at all at that point, but Lilith being a shitty leader.
@@shadows_star THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS! Blame fucking Lilith as she literally brushed it off with "Not much to say" When Maya asked what happened to her Powers. She didn't give her any fucking indication of what had actually happened. Ava isn't a bad character and it's not solely because of her that Maya died it's definitely partially as to why but also not fully. Maya: So... your tattoos. You wanna talk about them? Lilith: Honestly, no. Not much to talk about. That is the direct quote that lead to Maya's death.
@noone You don't know that, because it's not what happened. Out of the game and it's characters, the BL3 team was determined for it to play out this way whether Ava as a character was involved or not. They already had Maya acting out of character in the very scene. It's really on Lilith for allowing her to go with little to no information on the twins.
@@Seawolf.Gaming I think Maya was aware about Tyreen (but not Troy) being able to leech any Siren. When you talk to Maya on Sanctuary III, she mentions Tyreen stealing Lilith's powers and wanting revenge.
@@shadows_star counter point: Ava going down there was still what led everything to shit. It doesn't matter if Lilith's plan was flawed when Ava was still the reason Maya ended up doing the dumb "grab him by the neck" thing. Ava owed Lilith an apology for snapping at her over something that literally wasn't her fault. "The writers wanted it to happen" doesn't mean shit.
Even if these "deleted scenes" have been made after the release of the game, the fact that they can come up with better scenarios is no excuse for what we got with Ava and the story in general.
Agreed, they could have even tweeked the in-game 'funeral' on the ship to have Ava meltdown+spill her guts about getting Maya killed, and it would have been 300% better than what they delivered. And it would have taken next to no extra effort beyond recording minor dialogue. The whol game felt like 1/2 of it's missing because some upper management type went 'I want it out the door now!'
The deleted scene actually made me feel bad for Ava, and it was a perfect way to honor Maya. Just like with Tina, Ava dropped her tough girl act and showed emotions. She didn't think she was important enough for Maya to risk her life for, and that made me feel sympathy for her. The way she acted during her diary mission seems completely justifiable after watching the deleted scene. If they would've added it in, people probably wouldn't hate Ava as much.
Holy shit. The cut content actually makes me like Ava way way more. And the writing is 10000% better than what was in the game. I mean I get that the game wants to make it all funny, but having these kinds of moments makes us relate to the character more. The cut content actually makes me understand why Ava can be the next leader. There is so much character growth
I hope they continue with the story line from TPS ending. Have all the VH’s come together, as well the new ones. To face this threat. “The coming war, we will need every vault hunter we can get”
That's what shitty writers and publishers do when they have to milk something off their previous products, that's what happened with TLOU2, and it happened here. Difference being that TLOU2 had the same writer (minus some cowriters that helped and imo made the story good in TLOU1) and the writer from BL2 did not work for BL3 (not hard to notice lol)
@@BoxFang really do disagree with the milking Joel in the context of OP's comment. They didn't market Joel not nearly as much as they did Ellie, people just expected him to be there from his brief appearances , and for the most part he actually was there in game. Not talking about the writers here. I feel this game did exactly what OP said, and I do wish these scenes were in the game because it actually gives weight to the whole thing, I think it would have been worth the time and money to get it done.
@@snakester79 There are even trailers with scenes were Joel appears and they sell it as if Joel would been the one to help Ellie to fight when it is the exact opposite, go look for them and you will realize this game was one of the most hated for good reasons, its a pure political game that ruined the IP even if you have a big portion of people defending it.
@@BoxFang you right, but throughout all of the trailers they made it so Joel wasn't present for most of it. The focus was on Ellie. Hindsight is 2020 so lets think back. People thought Dina was going to be killed, but if so, why would Tommy be at Ellie's door? Wouldn't Joel have been more present in any given moment that had Tommy. I hate to say it but we all got bait and switched and that's fair game. It's like how Marvel intentionally mislead people in their trailers (Ragnarok for example). You would assume ND wanted to keep all this under wraps. Unfortunately the leak ruined that prospect. What I'm saying in this long ass post, is that we should have seen it coming. In terms of his actual death? Action has consequences.
@@snakester79 That's true that Joel wasn't present but that was by design. So when they did the E3 trailer when Joel shows up, they knew it would get a big positive reception. Come the actual game it turns out the moment from the trailer was fake and had a different character in it. Also there were a number of trailers where they used the older joel model so it fooled people into thinking it took place in the present when in actuality they were flashbacks.
Sadly, I felt more when I saw Krieg watching from a distance at the funeral. That shit hurts. Especially when you know she was the only thing in the end to make him sane and whole again, or as close to it as he can be.
This is only one part of the main problem of the story being among the absolute worst. The other part is that in-game, characters talk with VH (Vault Hunter aka Player) meaning that the character we choose is included in the story but in cutscenes we are totally ignored. So this implies that VH and therefore the player sat there, allowed and watched Troy killing Maya. There is so much reason to simply retcon this game and continue the franchise as if BL3 never happened. Since BL3 proceeded to ignore the Pre-Sequel which established that Aurelia decided not to hate his brother in the end and decided to simply give him the cold shoulder until the ice breaks, its only fair for BL3 to be ignored in the future.
Yea they did Aurelia super dirty, she had an interesting backstory and could have been an interesting anti hero but instead they made her a super generic boring "I am rich" villain and simply killed her off.
I haven't played 3 so personally I don't really care. As far as I care the story ended with Tiny Tina coming to term with Roland's death after the Bunkers and badasses campaign in tiny Tina's assult on dragon keep.
10000000000% this. I hated that the game’s cutscenes played out as “Lilith, Ava, and Tannis save the world” they aren’t even there in the fights throwing you ammo or saying spiffy lines in person, they are on the echo. Then boom they are there for the cutscene. The one that’s especially guilty of this and solidified it as “3 women save the universe” for me was when you kill Troy. She tries to smash them with a rock, but just those three. Implying you literally aren’t there. I Hate it.
@@ryanbolson23 And of course, all three of those mentioned character are sirens. So I guess, moving forward, unless a character is a siren/related to a siren than they're a complete waste of space who will have no overall relevance to the story.
"The other part is that in-game, characters talk with VH (Vault Hunter aka Player) meaning that the character we choose is included in the story but in cutscenes we are totally ignored. " - In that regard they did not only disregard the TPS story, but also one of its features: the VHs and the NPCs actually had conversations; depending on who they talked to, the NPCs would respond differently, effectively causing them to have conversations. This further reinforced the feeling of the characters. Additionally, they added some banter, like when the entire crew would yell at Claptrap when he uses his action skill. None of that was present in B3 and the VH crew felt "dead" again.
I feel like, this Deleted scene was kind of shoe horned in to the Directors cut because of how much better written it is than the rest of the game. Or perhaps it was simply cheaper to keep the players POV scene than an entire cut scene, whatever the case it was a grave mistake.
I feel like this could've worked if it was in the player's POV as well. It's pretty easy to position the player where they need to be for story purposes. It can be as simple as just giving the player an objective to walk to a specific spot, or have one of the npcs do something that prompts the player to investigate. Maybe after Lilith throws ash, have the player throw the ash too, their chosen character say a solemn statement, and then have Hermes grab both the player and Lilith's attention. Then they all head up to meet with Ava. We're strategically placed on rails all the time during story moments - I can easily see Gearbox doing the same with this scene. Instead they for some crazy reason went with what we have now, which is definitely too bad.
It genuinely blows my mind how they decided to cut these two scenes. They literally would eliminated 95% of people's problem with the story just by including them. It's baffling.
wym? bl2 hypes up getting to go battle all these awesome vault monsters... and the story depends on lilith making terrible decisions at every stage. would of sucked regardless.
@@MrDeothor give dahl a comeback and they make some abominations like they did with the psychos that ends in a giant space tortoise and it'd have been better then two teens and some more teens having a very angsty hair contest
@@MrDeothor Fuck over the "Great Vault" etc etc, just make it fighting off Dahl or Maliwan etc etc from Pandora. Fuck over Ava and everything new they added to BL3.
The fact that Krieg, a character with such a heavy connection to Maya, has absolutely nothing to do with her death, is the opposite of satisfying, it's downright infuriating.
Troy killing Maya was actually a good way for Ava to get GOOD character development, making her realize that her immaturity and lack of common sense would kill those she loved and make her come to understand that she isn't this badass bitch who's invincible. Instead the developers asked "How bad did you want to make Ava's character?" To which they replied "Yes."
I genuinely think they should fully animate this and put it in the story. Take out some of the garbage scenes that we ended up with. I would've actually loved and understood Avas character if they would've done this instead of what we got.
Honestly I dont think they need to. A lot of and sorry to say this part "idiots" are already eating it up that this is the canon event of what happened and became staunch defenders of gearbox's shitty writing. I've never seen someone use a directors cut as defense for a story's writing until this mess. They are acting like a final product being faulty is fine because the test product worked fine before they removed things to cut cost.
Thats what I don't understand, isn't it the Directors Cut? Why didn't they cut the shit and put that in, they have the scene and VA, just animate it and you're good to go.
Tbh I'm 90% sure that this scene is not cut content. I think they made this scene AFTER release. They just read 'bout all the hate towards Ava, understand their mistakes and made this short movie to calm some people from BL's fanbase. And styled it to "storyboard-cutscene" to imitate it as actual cut cutscene. Because this scene looks so incredibly important that I never believe they cut it out because of budget or any other reasons. They failed and now just trying to say "Hey, guys, the actual character development and farewell-scene was amazing, we just cut it because... because... nvm, here it is!" Maybe I'm wrong. I admit it. I don't tell that my words is definitely truth. But I see it like that. Sorry for my English.
It makes the most sense. Unless Randy just straight up vetoed these scenes out, it makes absolutely no sense for anyone who has written a story more than once to cut these.
@@PenniDeadful it doesn't make sense when we got funeral scenes for Roland and Blood wing back in bl2. Characters mourned openly during the fighting and even after. It's weird how Maya, (who played an important role in gathering the most information on sirens) got shit canned. Just cause they were "deleted scenes" but now we can see them makes them cannon story, that just means the funeral is fanfiction of "how Ava could be not shit."
I feel like it might be a mix of the two, it seems like they had the idea to do these scenes but didn't have the time to make them or even make the storyboard, so they made I to post production. As it stands in base game the transactions throughout the game make no sense. From Maya dying to suddenly being the leader of the firehawks at the end...
This is exactly what I thought. They knew they screwed up and try to "sugarcoat" with this animation like a prize of consolation. C'mon... how the hell this is a cut or deleted scene from one of the most beloved characters on BL. :/
The reason I loved Borderlands 2 was because of it's highs and lows. It was filled with memorable jokes but when they had to get serious, they did. The deaths in Borderlands 2 meant something! Borderlands 2 had an entire DLC centered around Tiny Tina's grieving process.. The deleted scenes would have made me change my mind about Ava.. But since they're cut: fuck Ava
Exactly. This is really well done but it isn't Canon or it would be in the main game. I said before.. if Maya had to die.. should have happened before the final boss. The impact it would make.. the emotion and aggression.. would have been fuelling.. or at least lead up to it.. but no, nothing. Then idiot Lilith decides to give Ava everything.. truly the worst writing..
You took the words right out of my mouth. These are the scenes we wanted so badly, full of emotion and growth. I can honestly say that this would have made my views of Ava much better. A proper passing of the torch. Someone much more worthy of being a Siren. Sadly the damage has been done, no amount of dlc will fix the story they've already set into motion.
I wanna know why they chose to leave these scenes out, like this is such a powerful scene where Ava’s WHOLE character would change in the eyes of everyone, it’s actually frustrating that this has been left out.
@@connorstetts859 I meant that Gearbox wanted the BL2 Vault Hunters to exclusively appear in their DLC's. (Example: Krieg in the Fantastic Fustercluck DLC.)
you can like it more, but they still didn't do it, this is them trying to pretend they didn't make and release the game a different way, would have much prefered this don't get me wrong, but yeah this didn't happen cause they didn't care enough to do right by Maya.
Alright, but you won't like me changing your mind. This wasn't a deleted scene. This single scene fixes dozens of problems players had about Ava, her behavior, how other characters respond to her, the piss poor treatment of Maya's death, and Lillith's seeming incompetence. There is simply no way that a scene with THIS MANY important character moments would be cut from the game. Even a massively incompetent writer would sooner cut worthless filler scenes like Tyreen attacking and then killing Typhon DeLyon over this gem. They made this scene months later, maybe even specifically to be released as part of this dlc, and didn't even have the decency to admit they made a mistake, animate it, and insert it into the game as new canon. And why would they make this scene? Because as a siren and leader of the Raiders and Sanctuary they need Ava to be part of future games, and they know they won't sell as many games if we still hate Ava. So there we have it. It doesn't make sense, from a business perspective, to cut such an important scene. However, it makes 100% business sense to add this later as an attempt to prevent lost sales for future franchise entries.
@@MonochromaticPrism the damage is done either way im not alone in the fact that I played bl3 day one finished it in 2 days uninstalled it and haven't touched it since ava is shit sure but she wasn't the only issue with the game. First impressions are everything and everyone got the same first impression with this game nothing they add now can change that.
I agree but I'm a type of person who needs. Animation to tell a story and the Drawing type art in the good fursion of Ava's character is to distracting to call it canon if 2k just said on twiter.hey this is canon then I would call it canon
If they introduced the funeral scene as a flashback, that could really help build ava's character in the next borderlands game. An estranged reconnection with Kreig would be interesting too.
I find it crazy that without color, without detail, without well.. everything the cut content was able to emotionally move me, I only wish that these clips sound have been fully and beautifully implemented. I only wonder why they were not used.
The second I read “maya’s funeral” in the behind the scenes I just knew it’s was gonna make the story even more disappointing knowing what could’ve been
Lilith saying “She saw us all better than we saw ourselves, “ as the camera was on Krieg really got to me
Holy s*it you are right
My heart sank
as a krieg main i second this. broke my heart
Only thing both parts of him truly love
I´m literally crying... that scene MUST be in the main game, as a Maya main i think at least if u kill her, give her her goddamm funeral with Krieg there... My heart is broken but still hope they fix something...
This doesn't even feel like a deleted scene. Deleted scenes are usually just a possible alternative to what the creators ultimately went with. This just deadass feels like they left out the most important scene.
Because they did. I said its what they needed to do before but failed. Granted the Character has other issues from her backstory.
@@MetisLeigh427
Two completely different directions.... I think its worst honestly if it was deleted because as has been said they thought she was good.
A brat incapable of taking responsibility. Her emotions are all about her the two she has. Even if we were to say nothing was her fault she would see it as hers. Thats human.
I think thats a huge part of the problem with characters these days in general movies or games. They don't really have human emotions. Meaning we can't relate we can't empathize with something we don't understand.
I agree wholeheartedly
@@MetisLeigh427 I 100% agree, that’s what I was thinking while watching that the whole time
agreed
Ava: "Lilith, you're suppose to be the hero, you killed Jack!"
Lillith: "THE LAVAS RISING!"
*Ava dies in lava*
Man why does she get all the credit
@@bandeater6612
Optional objectives are canon
@@Short_Potato it was maya and other 5 VHs that killed the warrior and then allowed Lillith to deal deal final blow
SHUT UP I KNOW LET ME FIGHT THE WARRIOR IN PEACE
“You only dislike her for her personality”
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with doing so.
I guess because people use that to say a character has bad writing, when in reality a well written character could have an extremely annoying personality. Doesn't really make it better, since that's still just up to the viewer themselves to decide whether they like them or not. I HATED Ava to the point where I would disregard anything she said or did for the rest of the story. It sucks now, looking at these deleted scenes all that time later, and seeing how she redeemed herself in my own personal bias by actually being a well written character. There's a lot of strange, shady stuff that happened with this game's development lmao
@@Pancaketophat I mean a well written character is nice but I wouldn’t really say that means I have to like them. Like I just couldn’t stand lelouch from code geass cuz he acted like a redditor wet dream in the small portion of the show I watched. Apparently he’s written really well and the show is too but just his absolute douchebagery combined with his perfection immediately turned me off. Especially since like I said before, he sounds like how a redditor sees themself.
I mean really. If someone is acting like a snotnosed whiny brat who disrespects everyone around her - wouldn't YOU hate her too?
I mean isnt judging people based off their personality what people normally do anyway?
@@frogmouth2 Thats how most people see themselves lmao. That’s the internet, not just Reddit.
Youre telling me we couldve had a scene where even KRIEG shows up to pay respects!?
Damn Gearbox, wasted chance. Krieg's meat bicycle will always be half empty now.
RAGE STRIKES THE HEART TRUE
Even if we only saw him for that one scene that would be cool
Nah, I couldn't handle that. That shit broke me
Even the Krieg DLC was a wasted opportunity, theres not even a reference to Meat Bicycles.. Most of the DLCs sidequests are pretty bad too
Hell, theres barely any cool Krieg ish gear. Id kill for a Flame of the Firehawk shield (one of Kriegs BiSs for Bl2)
@@jakestavinsky3480 I mean we get a badass looking gun charm that look perfect with the hellwaker
You mean to tell me... they discarded a genuinely hearbreaking scene between Ava and the others. Where she's angry, and sad, and lashing out in a believable way after her best friend was killed right in front of it. It still isn't perfect, but it's a DAMN sight better than what we got! Why didn't we get THIS scene!?
This is like zack snyder cut scenes “flash going back in time”
Well originally bl3 didn't have cutscene skips. So i think they might of been worried bogging the gameplay down with long unskipable cutscene. Especially on repeat playthroughs. Still a massively stupid decision
My thoughts exactly, these scenes bring out genuine character growth for Ava. What they should have done honestly was make these scenes fully animated and added them to the game for free.
@@eclipsedarksouls6036 there is already a 4min Cutscene and if they thought that this scene was too long (btw there are two different Cutscenes and a mission between them) why didn't they give us Cutscene skips right away
they could just make the funeral part a side mission
The conversation between Lilith and Ava on the cliffside is functionally exactly what Ava's story needed. Whoever cut this needs to not be in charge of these sorts of decisions anymore
For real, not including these scenes was the worst possible decision
@@taotoaster this had to have been made. After the fact call Bob, what’s gearbox saw all the heat she was getting
@FATEd Pondera fr, for the amount of bs lines we get they couldn’t have left out a few of those long running corny jokes and replace them with better writing for the main.
Literally whoever is in charge of the dialogue or writing for the main story shouldn’t be used ever again, I literally don’t know how they could write villains so terribly after handsome Jack
It reminds me of in Aliens how the cut the scene where Ripley learns her daughter as died, as the whole film is about motherhood.
They really said… “yea this scene is really a good send off for the character of maya and it makes sense how the characters who knew her reacted… let’s cut it” 😃
That’s 2k for ya lol
that's randy pitchford for ya
I call it prequel syndrome after the star wars prequel trilogy
Nah they probably made that shit after the backlash lmao.
Ironically Bloodwing’s death was more impactful to the story than Maya’s.
I never even played Mordecai in the original game and the Bloodwing stuff in 2 tore me apart
Because you played her in 2 she didnt get her story fleshed out like Mord, Roland, Lilith, and Brick. She got hamstrung by the bullshit story in 3. Which was garbage.
@iam_Ooracle She got one scene and died what are you talking about. You got work with everyone else in 2 from one for most of the game. Comparing her story to bloodwing isnt the same.
@iam_Ooracle Where did this come from. My response was to the Op of this one threadh where he said Bloodwings had more and an impact then Maya. When Maya had way less storyline. Maya was one of my favorite characters and i think shit got completely fucked.
@iam_Ooracle :D
Krieg's life is on a downward spiral(before his dlc) he lost his family, lost his mind, watched as the only person who understood him walked away never to see her again. He was in shadows at her funeral this guy had it tough
That's why I loved him so much. He lost literally everything, even himself. But he was still vault hunting and trying to save the world after meeting Maya, his one glimmer of hope.
two split personality both loved one woman
And his dlc is his mind ?
hellatze I mean as in like his sanity when he first became a psycho
When I saw krieg in the cutscene i was pissed that they didn't make this in game instead of the shit we got
When Maya died it felt it happened so fast, and was brushed aside so quick, that I almost didn't believe it happened.
Brushed quickly like brushing dust into a pan...
@@thewanderingartists Too soon!
pretty much where i stopped playing the game
Yeah made a good story. Needed to be a loveable character. Perfect fit.
@@vonborgah made a good story? Did you just call bl3 story good? I mean to each their own, but like.... can I interview you? You seem to have the exact opposite opinion of everyone in the entire world and I think it would be an interesting news story.
the whole funeral thing could have been a great way to bring Axton and Salvadore to the story as well to pay their respects and fight alongside Zero against the Calypsos
@ZeraSeraphimyou're garbage at the game, it's OK. Arms race is the only thing anyone ever opens up the game for anymore. Literally all content in borderlands is repetitive and boring. Arms race is the only thing that slightly changes things up. Idk though, BL3 sucks balls. I still play BL2.
@@Brandon-dy8usacting like bl is at all hard lmfao its actually hard to die fym
@@TheGanjologistnot once did I say it was hard, I was responding to the person who was complaining about it being hard. Maybe learn to read before making yourself look like a fool? If there's anything to take away from this exchange is that you're a nonce.
Ava leading the crimson raiders made no sense, any of bl3 vault hunters are way better suited, heck i say amara or moz would be more than happy to to lead a rag tag group to find vaults fighting and getting good loot, even axton made way more sense staying with the raiders, but for some reason the made him into a model a just never appeared in game, which again in the presequal in his echo convos with gaige he looked like he settled in well with the raiders so him leaving to become a model kinda feels forced
@giannicolamatteo8155 why not tannis? Or ellie? Marcus? Heck why not moxxi? Any of these would be a good choice instead of a girl who barely had any connection to the crimson raiders. And axton from bl2 would have been a good choice due to him being a design successor to Roland. Bringing him back to tap him for command would be a good dlc, including dealing with the interactions of others on the ship
My hate for Ava was so big that when it was time to say bye to everyone on the ship I deadass ignored Ava and just left.
You're a tough one aren't ya
@@IfeelKindaSick ikr right lmaoo
@@IfeelKindaSick Yes he is dont be a hater Ava lover
@@IfeelKindaSick nah, I just wish she kept one of the huge scenes of her character development tbh.
@@WiltingFlowerBoy Same man. I legit never talked to her.
The whole deleted cutscene was perfect way to maya to honor maya, and redeem Ava( with her accepting that it’s her fault and hinting at her potential). And Lilith being such a good listener and guide shows that she matured too.
Hit as hard as Roland’s funeral in the Tina dlc
Even harder. Im tearing up seeing this scene. The music, Lilith mentioning Roland, funeral... Dude I cant
THIS WOULD HAVE MADE AVA ALOT BETTER!
As good as this missing cutscene is... I don't think it'd fix the underlying problem of the story overall.
Take Maya's death as a particular example. She uses a phaselock to bring Troy into a headlock, which immediately puts her in a vulnerable position. Not because Troy would leech her (cause she doesn't know about it) but because Maya is trying to headlock someone who is both taller than her and also has a big metal arm, rather than keeping him in a phaselock which is not only safer but more practical.
Don't make me remember my death.
It is perfect because it is made with hindsight.
That deleted scene should have stayed in the story. Having Troy betray Tyreen would have made getting Maya's powers actually feel somewhat worth it at the end of the story.
I actually wanted Troy to become the bad guy at the end, I liked him more than tureen
@@jackmack4181 Same. Troy has a pretty depressing backstory
Troy seemed to have potential character growth during Eden-6. The way he was starting to one-up Tyreen now that he had his own powers. He didn't have to rely on Tyreen to live. Having real power for the first time, I could imagine Troy becoming more power hungry than Tyreen. Imagine if Troy had survived after the vault hunters defeated him, he would have leeched Tyreen completely just to stay alive. To see him become more of a monster than he already was in the game and finally fighting him as the final boss. That would have been so much better than what we got with Tyreen the Destroyer.
The biggest shocking moment in the game for me is that Troy didn't betray Tyreen. They seemed to hint at it several times.
Troy also didn't want to leave Typhon, Troy should have been the final boss, honestly Gearbox really flopped on this game and should have been better thought out.
I’m convinced that they animated this after the release of the game. They saw the backlash from her character and wanted to save her image. There is no way they left this out of the game but put a cube on nekrotafeyo that drops loot.
I mean it makes sense seeing as the 2nd "season pass" doesn't include anything story wise except an Ava thing. Legit slapped together another season pass for a fake BR mode and to try to redeem a character they KNEW they had to since they were making her the new leader. They knew if they left it as is, interest in a BL4 would be tanked from the get-go unless it had even more new mechanics.
Meaning the game would be more work since development would largely go towards the new mechanics instead of the story. Cheaper and easier to slap this stuff together so they can focus more on the narrative of the next game :/
I wouldn't put it past them. Look how other franchises are treated nowadays. If this was animated before release then it's only proof of their contempt for the fans and the legacy characters. They so perfectly disrespect all the old characters for it to be a fluke.
They made the mistake of putting the playable characters in the cut cutscene and have the balls to say this was cut from release
@alexf0723 good catch lmao. They are dumb
Alternative title: how one deleted scene would've saved Ava's character
You mean Ava's?
@@RetroNutcase shit...
Dude, so true
Yeah :-)
In your eyes maybe, in my eyes it still doesn't change 3 things: that she was one of the 2 people to kill Maya, that it doesnt change all the other scenes where she was a a complete ass, even after the Maya's death and that literally anyone else, even Claptrap would be a better choice for a new leader and would make more sense than her.
I played ALL the missions in the base game, though not any of the dlc, so I feel like I’m allowed to say, god damn Claptrap had a better claim to sanctuary by the end of it all.
lmao u should def play the dlc love, guns, and tentacles
@@night0legend I want to play Claptrap’s part of that DLC.
@@Military-gradenutella3068 well he's in the entire part, just not directly
I played all of the DLC and a lot of it is really good. But it doesn't redeem Ava lol. Maybe on its own it could but I was already so annoyed by her by that point I was just completely turned off
The dlcs are awesome!
If this scene was a real, a proper in-game one, I would cry my eyes out seeing Krieg just standing in the distance silently.
and then it justifies a little why kreig then needs help because his mind starts to self cannibalise and vaulthalla starts calling to him
@@Motleydoll123 Kriegs DLC was the best imo, adding those ECHO recordings during the main game. A great backstory for even greater character.
I literally squealed seeing Krieg in the scene that was cut... It would have made me so emotional if I had actually seen that in the game as well.
And with the first scene I actually felt some pity for Ava, and not boiling hatred for her. These scenes wouldn't have made her my favorite character from the game, but I at least wouldn't have hated her with a burning passion. They would've made her an actually relatable character, and not just something I wish would've gotten killed off instead of Maya.
@@tra12048 Yes, that scene should be in canon. I despise Ava a little less now, but it really hurts how they treated us with loss of Maya in the first place. Roland had his tribute alongside with Bloodwing, and Scooter had a heartwarming cameos after he catched his last ride. Tribute to Maya was neglected.
And now realising this, I'm mad again, gaaaaah!
Ava struck me as a very shallow character who refused to grow up or change. The fact that she was then given the metaphorical world on a silver platter after all her recklessness cemented her in my mind as Borderland's worst written character so far.
Something tells me that Ava admitting her faults would require the writer to admit their faults.
Seeing krieg at Maya's funeral would have broken me.😭😭😭
Yeah that hurt the most out of both of these scenes. And I don't even like kreig that much
Wish Krieg Broken Ava for Getting Maya Killed.
Same bro
its so sad!
@@omegavorosh9801 We just need Krieg in the vanilla game...
So. This scene gave Ava some depth as well as giving Maya a proper sendoff? And they cut it out because..... yeah. I don’t know. There is no reason why anyone would cut out such a well written scene like this! This would’ve been one of the most impactful moments in the whole series!
Because it's not a funny scene I guess
Whoever in Gearbox decided to cut this scene out needs to be fired.
Or maybe they want to keep that in future DLC to milk more money from players
Time, that's why most likely, ran out of time, or they didn't know how to execute it maybe
just my guess: borderlands 3 got released at times where the toxic part of feminismus has reached its peak. maybe thats why they changed the direction to nasty ava. to appeal to those. i know it sounds crazy because it was horrible but i cant find any other reason and its just a guess.
Seeing Zer0, the perfect assassin, unknown identity and modulated voice, throw the dust or whatever into the fire is so much. Zer0 doent show emotions besides "this sword is cool. This sniper is good at killing" but he fought beside Maya and developed a love for her, that kinda love you get for family.
Not even to mention Kreig, as trapped in his own brain as he is, with his own form of love for Maya and his dependence on her that was seen from his trailer to the end, in his recordings trying to get his own personality under control, its so heartbreaking that he never got himself under the control he wanted to tell her how much she meant to him. The one person that showed hope in him gaining himself again.
Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored Bored bored bored
Maya was my first playthrough and Zer0 was the second on launch.
Seeing Zer0 be there and throw that dust shows how much she meant to him.
Eso suena bastante gay
Zero shows emoticons in BL2 like
@@UrFriendXD that would be pretty tone deaf for the scene
Jesus CHRIST. How can any SANE writer not keep in a scene like that. That was one of the first times I actually got emotional from something in this series. I swear to god, this entire plot needs to be retconned when the next game, if and when it ever releases.
It was indeed emotional, but I think people (including myself) didn't really like it because ti doesn't really follow the chaotic spirit of the franchise. One really cool thing about Borderlands is that you could say that pretty much everyone is crazy in their own way, following little to no rational impulses to get whatever they want. That's what makes characters so charismatic and likable, from heroes to villains, everyone shares the same "crazy spirit"... And I feel like in this Borderlands there was too much "Hollywood stuff" with long monologues and speeches about saving Pandora, and restoring peace and stop evil and honoring the memory of the fallen... And Ava was pretty much in the center of all that. For me it killed the vibe and tone of the entire franchise. I don't play Borderlands to get emotional with the characters and the story, I do it to experiment the mayhem and chaos of Pandora and its inhabitants...
But of course everyone has their own preferences so...
they should just retell the game
Probably a producer/director decision rather than a writer one.
@That Guy ok i agree with you on some level. But for this games for the sake of making ava even somewhat a likable character, this scene needed to be in the game. Once borderlands 4 eventually happens, even if it is the chaotic game that you want, every single player is going to hate Ava since they already had a bad taste in their mouth before starting the game
Ava's attitude was based asf, all I interpreted it as is an overprotective situation that happened to get out of hand.
"Player didn't feel sorry for her" it wasn't why the writers wanted to do it, like yeah the tone of the situation is off, because it has the comedic intent, it clearly uses a comedic trope so I don't see how a player was meant to feel sorry for it.
I don't remember any of the dialogue he showed, I remember the part of dialogue Ava has when you visit her Cabin more so.
They could have at least put the funeral in a side mission like "Bearer of bad news" did for Roland back in bl2.
Can we all start a petition to get Gearbox to animate this whole cut scene and patch it in over the crap we actually got
I'd sign that petition
yes to me it looks like the main problem with what we got was that it was lazily done. They had the two well thought out scenes yet didnt bother to animate them both. They tried to cram them both together with bits and peices of different dialogue and completely ruined the feeling of all of it
Please
You’re actually onto something big. These scenes could literally fix a major part of the story that failed in borderlands 3(maybe not fix the entire story but definitely a critical part). I think that signing a petition to get these scenes put into the game will actually do better for the borderlands story itself and will get fans to be able to better move on over the games faults.
@@shellj4927 I honestly have to say I really like the story of BL3 despite it having flaws. I wouldn't say I prefer it over BL2's story, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be
So. Two scenes, where Ava's personality was DRASTICLY different. And where characters are actually faithfull to themselves.
Suprisingly thoughtful.
Too bad whoever was the idiot behind production, decided to cut those two saving scenes. Thanks for showing this to us.
My guess is maybe the story was rushed and these aren't actually deleted scenes,these might what they made afterwards to cool down the backlash
if you want to blame someone then blame randy -I would rather do a shitty magic trick than give a fuck about my games - Pitchford
While the deleted scenes give clarity to the Ava story i think they were deleted because they gave her to much of the front and centre, the same could be said for Lilith (e.g. -Talk to Lilith) but as an established character she was spared the treatment.
@@Cyberfan2167 even so it makes Ava a million times better. I just hope that they decide to make it canon or something
Would have honestly made the game's story at least 50% better than it was. But if you really pay attention, you could tell the writers wanted to take the story a different direction, but ultimately whoever the jackass was that had final say over the story made it as bland as possible. Like, there was a point they were setting up a betrayal between Troy and Tyreen, either Troy betraying Tyreen or Tyreen betraying Troy, dialogue which occurs on Eden-6 I believe. And then the canned cutscenes shown in this video, which would have at least made people not absolutely HATE Ava if nothing else.
11:53
This absolutely needed to be in the game. It shows you that however crappy Ava behaved before it was just that…..her trying to process her feelings. But hearing her say
“why did she waste it on me” really shook me. I think we’ve all had someone in our lives before who never gave up on us even when we couldn’t understand why they would keep going.
That one line seriously shows all of the growth that would’ve avoided Ava being hated by everyone
or at least having someone call her out on her recklessness
its obvious that the """deleted scene""" was written after the fact. She never stopped being an annyong cringe brat; that scene wouldve atleast warrant a tiny change in her attitude
@@Keckegenkai this is most likely the case. Oh, BL3. You poor bastard of a game
Imagine the board meeting where someone said, hey let's not use good character development for Ava and Lilith
do people want to sit through more of our terrible writing? I think they just want to play the game and shoot stuff. lol yeah scrap that crap.
@@KM____________ ...
@@KM____________ i agree, this cut scene while adding story context reeks of badly written expositions.
Lol so true
@@KM____________ Then why have a story at all? It could be like other shooters with no story, and thats fine. Why half ass it? Thats a lazy, shitty cop-out.
Honestly...
I feel like if this was kept in, it would have improved things 100 times over
it would! with this scene i would have accepted mayas death. this scene is literally the heart of the bl3 story
Some Gearbox employee right now: cut that scene they said. It won’t add much to the story they said.
@@giovannimarini3730 that would be me loool. For real, I would animate this scene and all for NO money. Its just love what it needs. Not just the damn money. It's always about the money
No it wouldnt have help those cut sense are way to cheesy and badly writen
@@wisdomfox857 Too cheesy? You realize this is BORDERLANDS, right?
There could’ve been a mission similar to Jackie’s funeral is cyberpunk. You go into maya’s house and find 3 sentimental objects for mayas funeral, the hook is that their is roughy 6 optional objects to choose.
Object 1: a picture of maya and Krieg kissing with Ava mentioning as you pick it that maya really liked that man.
Object 2: a broken old school Maliwan weapon. Ava mentions that maya love to use that weapon before coming to Athenas.
Object 3:a eridian carved statue of maya with the inscription from Gaige saying “see ya later, but not in memory”
Object 4: a Dahl medal from axton
Object 5: a coupon for a beer with Salvador writtens saying “any time an any place, amigo”
Object 6 (secret): handsome jacks mask fragment.
Each of these would have the vault hunters make a comment on the object before on.
When it time for the funeral, you place the objects onto the stone and watch as each person makes there peace.
An optional quest moment is given to you, it requires the vault hunter to say their peace and mourn for maya.
Each vault hunter will say something different about her
Rough drafts
Zane: As a bounty hunter, it is known we usually burn a lot of bridges when we work but even though my time with was short, could tell you all nothing will burn that bridge down. She was a strong woman and she knew what she wanted...the next drink I get, I’m pouring out for her.
Amara: being a siren my self, I had never thought I would encounter another siren once I came to pandora. Maya was the 4th siren that met and she was everything I expected and more from a siren sister.
Moze: as we say in the ursa Core, the brighter the full burns the faster it is going to go out. Maya was a person lighted the way for many others, it is sad that she did it without thanks.
Fl4k: Maya was if not a star here with us all, and now as sit here mourning, look above and think that the night sky just gained another star. (Fl4k starts to sing amazing grace in binary before leaving)
Hire this man right now!
Now this is great story telling!
@@danicz9994 Yes!
that deservers more likes. ITS SOOO GOOD dude! Id looove to have this in the game but im so sad that it will never happen ;(
this sounds like a genuin good idea, i think bl2 hunters just got the axe entirely, and mordekai brick and tina got fucked aswell.
some of those things should have been connected
my biggest problem with her was how she blamed EVERYONE ELSE for mayas death when she is so clearly the one who got her killed because she disobeyed orders and tried to be a badass
Krieg just lurkin at the funeral like he wasn't my sworn brother. I'm weeping. They did my boy dirty in the base story
I like how for whatever reason, Lillith gets the achievement of killing Jack. It's totally not like the point of BL2 was that the old vault hunters couldn't beat Jack and needed new blood to do so. "Roland, Lilith, and Mordecai -- he defeated them long ago. They can help you reach him, but in the end...it will be you who brings Jack down." But hey, let's just indirectly crap on BL2's story by doing things like that or killing Maya off disrespectfully.
I mean, Maya was the one telling Ava that story. She couldve easily taken the credit of hunting down Jack. But she chose to give the credit of killing him to Lilith instead
Also the fact that of you kill the guardian and moonshot his head jack will be standing there and lilith tells you to finish him off. If you dont do it within a few second she kills him
On top of that you have her legacy carried on by a spoiled wannabe bad girl who led you her death in the first place than has the nerve to pin Lilith pin this, I didn’t feel Ava at all sees so unreal how she didn’t acknowledge that she was the one to blame. I think this is hashed out way better and should be canon. That being said the canon response woulda worked for e IF
Ava did not go to that vault( sorry wasn’t finished wit the rant)
@@fireworkstarter I never got to see that since as soon as jack started talking I immediately put a bullet in his head thinking it was scripted and I wouldn't be able to actually hurt him.
Ok so why would they cut this!? A heart wrenching funeral scene, where even Kreig shows up to pay his respects. Ava coming off as a normal teenage girl and not seeming like a brat. They really messed up there.
I do not believe this was cut. They added the funeral scene after the fact to satiate fans.
@@johnk.7523 Yes, the funeral scene was. I'm talking about when Ava causes Maya's death and how she flipped out on Lilith and the rest. I liked the original scene where she just gets angry and storms off. That was more realistic. Unless that was added too?
@@disturbedpyro4511 Think he means that they drafted this after the negative reception.
Simple; being the fact that this is a game by GearBox; AKA greasy Randy; is enough to say "DLC" and you'd be "yeah; i can see why they did that"
This scene literally fixes everything. If only GearBox can explain wtf they did to Aurelia
"How removing just two scenes completely ruined Borderlands 3"
For me, at least.
Honestly for me? Nothing coulda saved Ava. She was too annoying and bratty for me to care about
If Ava ever dies. I would be so damn happy
@@tazdivil6527 unfortunately, i feel as if shes going to be either a playable or major character in bl4
@@pilledpilled Probably the leader of the Crimson Raiders. My guess would be she’s searching for Lillith as it was hinted in the credits that she isn’t dead. I wouldn’t mind this as they could use the opportunity to show some growth on her part. Maybe some whole conversation where she admits she was in denial over losing Maya and is determined to do right by the Raiders. She’s not the first character to be loathed initially. Thinking back Ashoka is a great example of this in the Clone Wars tv show.
Crazy how 1-2 cutscenes worth like 10 minutes of gametime could have cemented an entire character as a future lead. Instead, we have this uncertainty for the future of an incredible and unique franchise.
Gearbox is woke now. Woke companies don't see it as critique from consumers, they see it as a personal attack from deranged bigots. Borderlands 4 will be a stagnant and uninspired mess because the devs only hear what they want to hear from people.
lol random = good
good writing/storytelling= bad
I really wish these scenes had happened, especially since I actually liked Ava. She came off as angry, confused, and uncertain. Someone that needed help, and guidance. Then, she lost her guide.
I felt horrible for her (as well as for losing Maya, of course), because she clearly needed help becoming someone worthy of the role of Maya's prodigy.
@dogecoin investor I heard they fired the og writer and someone else come in.
@@Subject_Keter what happened was that Mikey Neumann, incredible guy, writer for BL2, and initial lead writer for BL3, (and voice of Scooter), developed multiple sclerosis which got worse and worse as production went along, so had to step away amicably for his own health. No firing here.
@@CallMeCharley so is he back to writing or no ? No offense to the writers health, just want to know if he's back to business or taking a break
Imagine if they had krieg finally gain control of his inner voice and make a speech at Maya funeral that would be some grade a development
Maybe not a full gain of control, but just for one word or two words.
@@gamertwo6263 a few would be nice letting his other self take the wheel for some moments
@@gamertwo6263 two words? 'your fault' and points at ava
@@gamertwo6263 I am sad that my PARTY HARPOONS were never expressed
or just him saying "pretty lady" as he looks down
Why did we not get this? This is great and powerful writing and gives that feeling of "Its not fun and games anymore" like... damn....
Killing Maya was a huge mistake. She was one of the most popular characters, she had that surprisingly touching arc with Krieg going, yet they casually offed her in favor of that horrible brat.
thats actually a great reason to kill off a character, i believe tho the issue will always be the reaction and ava acting like an entitled little shit
i was like wait what just happened, i was like please tell me the hyperion network is still up, cause this is some horse crap.
We should’ve saw it coming when Roland and Scooter got killed off in BL2. If they ever kill Moxxi off then I’ll boycott the series as a whole
@@jpegjared Those deaths made sense narrative-wise and were done WAY more tastefully than Maya’s though.
@@jpegjarednot comparable honestly. Maya's death is so contrived and forced that it left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.
It's incredible how much talent the writers have and how much it was wasted. Those two scenes are really good but it's like the company said "There's no laughs, why are people not laughing? Make the twins send them a meme video making fun of Maya's death lmao"
THIS IS A FUNNY GAME GUYS WE GOTTA MAKE IT FUNNY, NOT FUNNY ENOUGH
The twins doing that could've been ok for the story if they didn't have us hating Ava more than them.
Just like how Jack killing Roland made it personal, this would've made it personal, a grudge beyond "o no they're doing bad thing"
But they put it at the very beginning of the game, right after introducing Ava, very clearly showing SHE caused Maya's death, and very clearly showing her not having any remorse for it.
They killed Maya too early, and with the way they did it, they killed Ava's future as a likeable character.
@@Vaylon. if they made ava goes “oh shit, my bad. Gotta train harder and not be a dumbass so this won’t happen ever again” while still keeping some of her Zoomer personality, she’ll be just like Tina (kinda). But we got a whiny “I’m better than you even though you got like 20 years experience of Vault Hunting while I have 0” brat instead
Actually the head writer who did the other borderlands game was fired and the story he had planned was mainly scrapped
i just hope he "maturs" in the later games
maby then shell be likeable
Yeah, I'm just gonna pretend that scene did happen and live a happier life because of it
Maya would have had a funeral of some kind. It's just that it occurred completely off screen. In fact, I think the Director's Cut should have also added in that funeral as a post game quest along with Ava's mystery podcast sidequest.
@@Techhunter_Talon I agree.
Too bad it didnt... So the silver lining is dead for me.
yeah imma have to put this in my new head canon.
Same here, and it would be awesome if they somehow amended the story to bring it in, but as it stands, this is part of the canon to me.
The moment when you realize Roland and Maya died from the exact same thing. Them telling someone to not go and them not listening
Apples and Oranges. Lilith was a full-grown woman, leading an entire bandit gang who was hopped up on her Eridium powers from liquifying people. Lilith was on a huge fucking power trip that was completely unchecked, paired with strings of successes that included getting Roland back, invading and destroying multiple Hyperion bases, basically flipping Jack off constantly, and killing Wilhelm. Her showing up was completely irresponsible and dumb as shit, terrible writing that needlessly got Roland killed. Lilith is directly responsible for the death of Roland.
Ava is a kid who has been denied basic respect over and over again from those she looks up to, and was constantly talked down to. Every single adult in Borderlands treats her like an accessory, and even Maya didn't really take the time to understand her. Her actions were obvious from the start, she absolutely was going to that Vault because nobody made any actual attempt to keep her from doing so. Maya and the rest of that convent were shit guardians. They took a little time to actually connect with Ava, this wouldn't happen. Ava is a child, not an adult like everyone around her.
Wait shit, you're right. My bad. Roland and Maya died from the exact same thing: Fully grown adults who lead organizations and kill thousands of people, making the worst choices possible to move the plot along. Weird how it's accepted in BL2 and not BL3. Handsome Jack really did carry that game for some people.
Ava directly got maya killed. Shes old enough to know to follow what maya says. She had up to that point, and yet still knowingly followed her and after being explicitley told not to, she still went down. Ava was not a victim. Yeah yeah she has a sad backstory. She wasnt denied any respect, she hadn't earned it. Maya trusted her, and ava cared about her, but not enough to listen to her and by not listening, got her friend killed then blames it on someone else. Roland died because he knew the risks. Even while telling lilith not to come with him. It was known jack was looking for sirens, and if he got ahold of one he wouldve used them for his own personal gain. Lilith went anyway because she wanted to take down handsome jack too. She was absolutely impulsive, yet she somwwhat took it seriously. Ava came because she wanted to see a vault. She wanted to see a fight, and have loot, to be there with maya. Ava didnt take it seriously. they both got those they cared about killed. Roland's death meant more since jack was seen as an actual threat for the whole game. We knew what he was capable of. The siren twins were so carefree and young, hungry for power. The point is Lilith and maya have similarities in how they got their loved ones killed, but ava was more careless while Lilith was impulsive. @DamienDarkside
I'm of the belief that Ava is actually Randy's little fan creation and she was forced to be a pivotal character in the franchise moving forward. From Maya dying and giving Ava her siren powers, to Lilith making her Commander, and possibly being a future playable character. The entire game felt like someone's bad fan fiction.
Didn't he had a pen drive of some weird porn?
@@RenegadeStriker7 no no no sir you are mistaken it was magic (this was seriously his defense)
Why would you say that?
@@alexandermccabe556 what.
You seriously think Randy has written a word on a production like this? If he would be messing with the game on that level, every game-designer would've quit half-way through the project.
Bro, Lilith confiding with Ava about Roland is literally the perfect mentor development. I can't fathom why this was put on the back burner
Probably because it WASN'T put on the back burner. This reeks so hard of "Guys, this was TOTALLY cut content! LOOK, WE KNOW HOW TO WRITE." levels of coverup for the literal fucking failure that is BL3's plothole ridden writing.
@@-ShiraZen- Darn, the worst part is this makes sense.
Right?
@@-ShiraZen- Honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I just hope they learn from this and don't ruin borderlands 4 or the last borderlands with a shitty story. Also funny seeing you here lol.
I don't think this was in response to the backlash because they don't turn Ava into a different character, they just handle her character better. She's still lashing out and deflecting responsibility but it's done in a way that makes it easier for the audience to understand and puts us in Ava's head as she mourns the death of Maya. You can't just wake up and decide to be a good writer, and knowing how awful triple AAA companies are when giving game devs and authors time to work out the kinks I think it's more realistic to assume that: they had the first half of Ava's story finished but didn't know how to conclude it so they just used the placeholder storybeats for her and shiped the game.
One of the worst things to me is how you never get to talk to or see Krieg react to Maya’s death. That little bit in the story board would’ve been all I needed.
Without this deleted scene, does the player know at any point in the main story that Krieg's learned about Maya's death? Because I was dead sure that on his DLC we would be shown him learning about it and going apeshit. Until the point in the DLC that he mentions her I never understood that it was established that he knew about her death at some point. I was expecting some heart breaking, gut wrenching scene and was left just "wait....so he knows?...and this DLC is not about that?...oh...."
Mordecai screaming when Bloodwing died teared me up more than Maya's weird sudden death even though I've never played the first Borderlands and Maya was even the first character I picked up 💀
I absolutely despise when the only way writers think they can introduce a new characters is by sacrificing an established, beloved one. Maya for Ava, Aurelia for Jacobs. BL3 seems quite amauterish in writing, which is beyond unfortunate
I think it has to do with the fact that the head writers for bl3 are different from those of bl2
your expecting caviar from mcdonald's and were disappointed, who didnt see that coming... if you play borderlands for its story, your like a women who is a prostitute for the great sex and not the money... Borderlands games pro's: combat, characters are funny, environment is always interesting to explore and thats it... cons: story sucks ass, always has, get over it
You had me at the first part but the second part with Aralia hammerlock sister is a horrible comparison because she literally is what her character is a backstabbing bitch
@@zanderman2009 "DuRr, dA sToRy doNT MaDdEr"
the story is good though and Aurelia and maya weren’t that great anyways. I’d only want maya around for the krieg connection honestly if nobody died there wouldn’t really be much of a sense of threat you being upset the character you liked dying isn’t equivalent to bad story. And it’s also lame you pretend you determine what good writing is.
A very small part of me thinks, these scenes were made much later after seeing the reaction to Ava, because there is no good reason for these scenes to be removed
Ikr? I was thinking the same exact thing.
Oh sure, they'd do that _if they wanted to get _*_lynched._*
The fans were upset at how they handled Ava. I'm pretty confident they'd be _even more_ upset if they learned that Gearbox _could've_ wrote this character- as well as this story- better, but deliberately _didn't._
My thought exactly
I feel after the story got raked over the coals a writer said: see I told you so, and presented their revised script and then they recorded it and gave it an animatic to test the water on how it went down. Maybe there's a way to track the money and see if Lilith, Ava, Ellie, and Tannis had recording sessions after release.
Yep, they screwed bl3 so bad, and now they say they left this scene out of the main story, yeah... sure, I think bl4 story may get even worst lool
I honestly cannot shake the annoying thought that these were made after the games release. Even people without any writing experience at all can see how important this scene is.
That’s what I’m saying, I’m pretty sure a 5 year old could figure out that this is better than “figure it out Lilith”
That was my thought too. I watched the scene and I just can't believe that this was not made afterwards to appease people and try to save the narrative (and sales and interest) of Ava being of importance on the next instalment.
I was thinking the same thing. Sadly, most players will probably never see these and always remember Ava as an annoying character.
These 2 cutscenes could not have only made Ava an infinitely better character, but it could’ve also made Lilith a more like able considering people don’t like her very much either
Krieg's inclusion in the funeral scene would have made the Krieg DLC a lot more emotional by making it a story of grief too
“Omg, this is so moving that it’s making me shed tears…….. Let’s cut it.” -the writers
"This scene is so powerful, and developing true humanity into non real characters, let's make everyone fucking hate ava"
The video: "Everyone blames the writers immediatly, but this proves they knew what they were doing. Someone else down the line cut it out"
This guy:* Blames the writer immediatly. *
@@TheHermesLP this doesnt prove anything, do you really think they would make something that good and then just ignore it completely, only for it to be replaced by the "oh no, Maya, she's broken"
@@peepeepoopoo5396 they were just too lazy to animate that pretty animation. Thats why they put 5 character models in a circle and let 2 chars talk to eachother in the final edit
@@fireworkstarter yeahhhhhh totally
I cried just knowing the fact that Kreig’s heart shattered when maya died, she was, well unique and the perfect vault hunter. Kudos to Kreig for keeping his sanity in tact. 😞
10:39 I dont know why but the subtle inclusion of marcus showing up at the funeral shown grieving like everyone else is such a good addition (that they didn’t go with) to the scene. At best it shows he’s a lot more complicated of a character with a lot of room for development. At worst it shows that he knows when to back down and be respectful with no nonsense.
It would’ve been nothing but a good thing to show.
The cynical part of me can’t help to think that this wasn’t actually a deleted scene but something they came up with for the Director’s Cut due to the backlash.
damn, yeah, that'd make a whole lot more sense
Even if that's the case, they could still do the new version with this as what should have been for a final cut
@@SirMysticRob The damage is already done... and most BL fans have moved on not caring for Ava or anything that they have in store for her. It was the experience that mattered in the end and it was completely shattered
@@Managuabrother I guess. I'm in the minority then, because I didn't particularly like or dislike her. The games are still amazing and it didn't ruin the overall story for me. It just wasn't as good as the story for BL2, but to say it wasn't good is exaggerating. It still would be nice if they added the better scene for future players and it would be a bit of a correction to better show her possible development moving forward.
They better fix her/her presentation as she grows, and that will solve things, even though people won't agree right now as usual because it hasn't happened yet, it will become apparent if they do it right. They definitely are capable of it as long as they don't make further bad decisions of what to use vs what's better, and they usually do well. Plus, teenagers suck anyway, so she could be a much better adult as is realistic. Jumping to a permanent conclusion when the character themself isn't recurring or an adult yet is silly and all too common.
Agreed. I genuinely can’t understand why they would cut a scene with this amount of value story wise.
"But you never got anyone killed."
"I did...someone I cared about..."
That hit me right in the gut.
Rip Roland….
Bro got onetaped
Number 1 flaw of Ava: Shes putting on a facade to mask her feelings. Story fails to show under the facade and show her vulnerability. Those cut scenes actually had that.
Borderlands has an issue sometimes of trying to only throw comedy. Which is what makes the Bounty of Blood DLC so good. There is some humor yes but a majority of it is all just a serious and good story.
I dont want to see her vulnerability. I’m tired of her bitching. Look at krieg or tiny tina. Far better characters with a FAR darker background. And they are the most upbeat crazy awesome badass characters. Ava just bitches.... complaining the whole story. they need to get rid of her. I want her to be a side character. Not the main character.
@@gamemight1028 Tina is obviously trying to mask her own trauma with explosions and Krieg is well utterly insane and shows he is a polar opposite to what we see. I feel like if your sincerely thinking that Ava not showing her facade slipping wouldnt make the game better you have the same mindset as the people who think that someone being silent and stoic with no really other personality traits makes them good
@@trashypunkman7559 but the point is is that they aren’t a Lil annoying bitch who complains 24/7 and blames others for something you did. They are more in need of help then someone like her.
@@trashypunkman7559 comedy is what makes borderlands “borderlands”. People like you need to stay away from the game cause I fear like y’all will make it as bad as “the last of us 2”
The failing in Borderlands 3's writing isn't with Ava. It's with Lilith. There are so many things they did wrong with Lilith, her (total lack of) leadership, and her sudden shift in attitude at the very end. These scenes help shore up the problems I may have had with Ava, but the truth is that I never had problems with Ava. I had problems with Lilith. For all of Ava's brattiness, if Lilith had just done something to put her in place...or not completely capitulated to her both before the final mission and during the end sequence...that would have been the single best improvement they could have made to the story.
Definitely agree that she isn't written very well. The game's ending just doesn't work at all for me because of it. Very unsatisfying.
As much as I dislike what they did with Ava, Lilith definitely got scalped in between borderlands 2 and 3, she made way more mistakes (somehow leaving a power vacuum by just not interfering with the cov in the 5 years between hector's dlc and bl3 even though she had the most powerful private military on the planet, practically allowing the twins to take her powers, just standing at the helm pretending to do things and being useless, knowing she has guns and can still use them, while Roland, Mordecai, and Brick, people who never had siren powers, were still on the front lines, her being mostly uninvolved story-wise for 50% of the game, never notifying Axton, Salvador, or Gaige of Maya's death or Pandora being in danger, etc.), and I guess it's fine because...?
Yeah Bl 3 Lilith was basically the same chick in fight for sanctuary
We didn’t have enough Talk to Lilith: [ ]
I get the feeling this isn't a director's cut, it's damage control.
Bet you its the whole reason they did the whole directors cut shit
And they charged for it....
I haven't seen any of this because after the ava crap I didn't want to give them any more money.
The worst part is that Telltale pretty much already setup some pieces for the future of the franchise, then Randy or whoever was in charge messed it all up.
Just like with duke nukem
Only this time its worse since it litterly made a to be continued and got scraped
But hey! At least they included Rhys, right? Right?
Guys?
Cries in Presequel
@@ivanivan744 wasnt troy baker :(
@@ivanivan744 Their failure to utilise Tales left me with a disgust i usually reserve for plague vermin, or a beached whale full of expired mayonnaise left to rot in the core of a dying sun
That post-death and funeral scene legit made me tear up. That was beautifully written and voiced. Its criminal that they cut those. But left 60% of the Callisto twin scene that they did in.
Wait what about a pre-death funeral scene
During the awkward scene where everyone gathers around for Maya's death, when Ava started blaming Lilith I literally shot her to the point of accidentally killing myself out of frustration. That cut scene with her and Lilith gives me more respect for her and I would much rather believe that that scene is cannon and that what we got isn't
I just wanted to slap her and lay into her about how it was all here fault that maya is dead
I'm a relative newcomer to Borderlands; my wife and I started playing them about two years ago and have worked through 1, 2, Pre-Sequel, and 3 along with the overwhelming majority of DLC, and I gotta say... Though 3 was the most recent one we've played, I remember T.K. Baha with distinct clarity while I couldn't actually remember who Ava was until I started watching this video.
Ah, I see you are a man of culture.
Heck they brought T.K back for several DLCs and a side mission in BL2
T.K. will always have a special place, dude was a legend
you dont remember ava because borderlands games the story doesnt matter
The minute you said T.K. Baha I immediately thought of his first words in BL1: "YOU!!?! ONE MORE STEP AND IT'LL BE YOUR LA- - (starts laughing) You should've seen the look on your face! (continues hysterical laughter)
Damn that cut scene is so much better. Too bad they were too busy making a SECOND PAID SEASON PASS to put in the correct scene
Imagine my fury, pre-ordering the ultimate edition for $100 only to be told that there's an entire other season pass that my season pass doesnt cover, and that my ultimate edition with "all post game content" only has half of the content, im furious
@@elijoseph5256 same
Seeing Krieg at Maya's funeral would have probably been the most heartbreaking in scene the franchise (after Scooter's death, ofc)
Its so sad to see Krieg standing off behind the rocks in the funeral scene, part of me believes hes doing it because both sides of him (Sane and Insane) are scared of just how he will react, or he just feels his presence might ruin the moment, with how difficult it is for him to communicate given he is a Psycho. Gotta feel bad for one of my favorite vault hunters man.
Nailed it. Never an apology or any self-awareness from Ava or push back from anybody about how Ava distracted Maya and her death could’ve been avoided.
But at the same time, is it really a problem when the writing would have had Maya die anyway no matter what? They had her stupidly physically grab Troy instead of holding him hostage with her psylock. She didn't need to physically threaten him as a siren...it was the writing making her be fucking more stupid than she was shown to be in previous game.
Or how about how Lilith allowed two sirens to go down to deal someone that stole her powers and is well known can take powers? Maya shouldn't have even gone down. It's really not on Ava at all at that point, but Lilith being a shitty leader.
@@shadows_star THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS! Blame fucking Lilith as she literally brushed it off with "Not much to say" When Maya asked what happened to her Powers. She didn't give her any fucking indication of what had actually happened. Ava isn't a bad character and it's not solely because of her that Maya died it's definitely partially as to why but also not fully.
Maya: So... your tattoos. You wanna talk about them?
Lilith: Honestly, no. Not much to talk about.
That is the direct quote that lead to Maya's death.
@noone You don't know that, because it's not what happened. Out of the game and it's characters, the BL3 team was determined for it to play out this way whether Ava as a character was involved or not. They already had Maya acting out of character in the very scene. It's really on Lilith for allowing her to go with little to no information on the twins.
@@Seawolf.Gaming I think Maya was aware about Tyreen (but not Troy) being able to leech any Siren. When you talk to Maya on Sanctuary III, she mentions Tyreen stealing Lilith's powers and wanting revenge.
@@shadows_star counter point: Ava going down there was still what led everything to shit. It doesn't matter if Lilith's plan was flawed when Ava was still the reason Maya ended up doing the dumb "grab him by the neck" thing.
Ava owed Lilith an apology for snapping at her over something that literally wasn't her fault. "The writers wanted it to happen" doesn't mean shit.
Even if these "deleted scenes" have been made after the release of the game, the fact that they can come up with better scenarios is no excuse for what we got with Ava and the story in general.
Agreed, they could have even tweeked the in-game 'funeral' on the ship to have Ava meltdown+spill her guts about getting Maya killed, and it would have been 300% better than what they delivered. And it would have taken next to no extra effort beyond recording minor dialogue. The whol game felt like 1/2 of it's missing because some upper management type went 'I want it out the door now!'
The deleted scene actually made me feel bad for Ava, and it was a perfect way to honor Maya. Just like with Tina, Ava dropped her tough girl act and showed emotions. She didn't think she was important enough for Maya to risk her life for, and that made me feel sympathy for her. The way she acted during her diary mission seems completely justifiable after watching the deleted scene. If they would've added it in, people probably wouldn't hate Ava as much.
100% Agreed
Are Directors Cuts cannon?
@@vacuousvulpes Not this one sadly
@@aegis20xx7 it is now i dont care what anyone else says ya cant change my mind
But she’s a kid so ofc everyone still hates her
Holy shit. The cut content actually makes me like Ava way way more. And the writing is 10000% better than what was in the game. I mean I get that the game wants to make it all funny, but having these kinds of moments makes us relate to the character more.
The cut content actually makes me understand why Ava can be the next leader. There is so much character growth
Bd3's story and how it played out has me worried about how 4's is gonna be.
I hear that ! If they go full Last of Us, Battlefield 4 etc. I'm not gonna play it. Perriott...
Man I why cut something so integral to the story and my only hope is that they the next game they make better choices
I'm so hoping it's not I've been playing bl for yrs
@@kreyes1126 battlefield 4?
I hope they continue with the story line from TPS ending. Have all the VH’s come together, as well the new ones. To face this threat. “The coming war, we will need every vault hunter we can get”
I'll never forgive them for killing off Maya. They were promoting her and selling Maya merch, only to kill her off. :( Got me hyped for tragedy.
That's what shitty writers and publishers do when they have to milk something off their previous products, that's what happened with TLOU2, and it happened here. Difference being that TLOU2 had the same writer (minus some cowriters that helped and imo made the story good in TLOU1) and the writer from BL2 did not work for BL3 (not hard to notice lol)
@@BoxFang really do disagree with the milking Joel in the context of OP's comment. They didn't market Joel not nearly as much as they did Ellie, people just expected him to be there from his brief appearances , and for the most part he actually was there in game. Not talking about the writers here. I feel this game did exactly what OP said, and I do wish these scenes were in the game because it actually gives weight to the whole thing, I think it would have been worth the time and money to get it done.
@@snakester79 There are even trailers with scenes were Joel appears and they sell it as if Joel would been the one to help Ellie to fight when it is the exact opposite, go look for them and you will realize this game was one of the most hated for good reasons, its a pure political game that ruined the IP even if you have a big portion of people defending it.
@@BoxFang you right, but throughout all of the trailers they made it so Joel wasn't present for most of it. The focus was on Ellie. Hindsight is 2020 so lets think back. People thought Dina was going to be killed, but if so, why would Tommy be at Ellie's door? Wouldn't Joel have been more present in any given moment that had Tommy. I hate to say it but we all got bait and switched and that's fair game. It's like how Marvel intentionally mislead people in their trailers (Ragnarok for example). You would assume ND wanted to keep all this under wraps. Unfortunately the leak ruined that prospect. What I'm saying in this long ass post, is that we should have seen it coming. In terms of his actual death? Action has consequences.
@@snakester79 That's true that Joel wasn't present but that was by design. So when they did the E3 trailer when Joel shows up, they knew it would get a big positive reception. Come the actual game it turns out the moment from the trailer was fake and had a different character in it. Also there were a number of trailers where they used the older joel model so it fooled people into thinking it took place in the present when in actuality they were flashbacks.
honestly the cut scenes didnt just develop ava's character, they also developed lilith's a lot. wish they'd kept them in :/
My first thought I had about Maya’s death wasn’t “how is this going to effect Eva?” It was “how is this going to effect Krieg?”
Sadly, I felt more when I saw Krieg watching from a distance at the funeral. That shit hurts. Especially when you know she was the only thing in the end to make him sane and whole again, or as close to it as he can be.
This is only one part of the main problem of the story being among the absolute worst. The other part is that in-game, characters talk with VH (Vault Hunter aka Player) meaning that the character we choose is included in the story but in cutscenes we are totally ignored. So this implies that VH and therefore the player sat there, allowed and watched Troy killing Maya. There is so much reason to simply retcon this game and continue the franchise as if BL3 never happened. Since BL3 proceeded to ignore the Pre-Sequel which established that Aurelia decided not to hate his brother in the end and decided to simply give him the cold shoulder until the ice breaks, its only fair for BL3 to be ignored in the future.
Yea they did Aurelia super dirty, she had an interesting backstory and could have been an interesting anti hero but instead they made her a super generic boring "I am rich" villain and simply killed her off.
I haven't played 3 so personally I don't really care. As far as I care the story ended with Tiny Tina coming to term with Roland's death after the Bunkers and badasses campaign in tiny Tina's assult on dragon keep.
10000000000% this. I hated that the game’s cutscenes played out as “Lilith, Ava, and Tannis save the world” they aren’t even there in the fights throwing you ammo or saying spiffy lines in person, they are on the echo. Then boom they are there for the cutscene.
The one that’s especially guilty of this and solidified it as “3 women save the universe” for me was when you kill Troy. She tries to smash them with a rock, but just those three. Implying you literally aren’t there. I Hate it.
@@ryanbolson23 And of course, all three of those mentioned character are sirens. So I guess, moving forward, unless a character is a siren/related to a siren than they're a complete waste of space who will have no overall relevance to the story.
"The other part is that in-game, characters talk with VH (Vault Hunter aka Player) meaning that the character we choose is included in the story but in cutscenes we are totally ignored. " - In that regard they did not only disregard the TPS story, but also one of its features: the VHs and the NPCs actually had conversations; depending on who they talked to, the NPCs would respond differently, effectively causing them to have conversations. This further reinforced the feeling of the characters. Additionally, they added some banter, like when the entire crew would yell at Claptrap when he uses his action skill. None of that was present in B3 and the VH crew felt "dead" again.
I feel like, this Deleted scene was kind of shoe horned in to the Directors cut because of how much better written it is than the rest of the game. Or perhaps it was simply cheaper to keep the players POV scene than an entire cut scene, whatever the case it was a grave mistake.
I feel like this could've worked if it was in the player's POV as well. It's pretty easy to position the player where they need to be for story purposes. It can be as simple as just giving the player an objective to walk to a specific spot, or have one of the npcs do something that prompts the player to investigate. Maybe after Lilith throws ash, have the player throw the ash too, their chosen character say a solemn statement, and then have Hermes grab both the player and Lilith's attention. Then they all head up to meet with Ava.
We're strategically placed on rails all the time during story moments - I can easily see Gearbox doing the same with this scene. Instead they for some crazy reason went with what we have now, which is definitely too bad.
“Figure it out Lilith!” - that condescending tone did it for me.
It genuinely blows my mind how they decided to cut these two scenes. They literally would eliminated 95% of people's problem with the story just by including them. It's baffling.
@Suavecito Live I'm saying in the original production of the game how'd they cut this out
@Suavecito Live that's possible for sure
wym? bl2 hypes up getting to go battle all these awesome vault monsters... and the story depends on lilith making terrible decisions at every stage. would of sucked regardless.
By the power of wishful thinking, I declare that THIS is the canon ending to Borderlands 3!
By my wishful thinking BL3 doesnt exist and we still wait for proper BL3 :P
@@MrDeothor give dahl a comeback and they make some abominations like they did with the psychos that ends in a giant space tortoise and it'd have been better then two teens and some more teens having a very angsty hair contest
@@MrDeothor Fuck over the "Great Vault" etc etc, just make it fighting off Dahl or Maliwan etc etc from Pandora. Fuck over Ava and everything new they added to BL3.
As soon as they showed Kreig, I started bawling
Maya living in his head rent free
@@IsThatKris lol
I was like, "wait a minute, Kreig is here too?"
The fact that Krieg, a character with such a heavy connection to Maya, has absolutely nothing to do with her death, is the opposite of satisfying, it's downright infuriating.
The end of the kreig dlc mad me cry because he makes a life with maya in his head even though she’s dead
Troy killing Maya was actually a good way for Ava to get GOOD character development, making her realize that her immaturity and lack of common sense would kill those she loved and make her come to understand that she isn't this badass bitch who's invincible.
Instead the developers asked "How bad did you want to make Ava's character?" To which they replied "Yes."
I genuinely think they should fully animate this and put it in the story. Take out some of the garbage scenes that we ended up with. I would've actually loved and understood Avas character if they would've done this instead of what we got.
Thank you!
Honestly I dont think they need to. A lot of and sorry to say this part "idiots" are already eating it up that this is the canon event of what happened and became staunch defenders of gearbox's shitty writing. I've never seen someone use a directors cut as defense for a story's writing until this mess. They are acting like a final product being faulty is fine because the test product worked fine before they removed things to cut cost.
.
.
Thats what I don't understand, isn't it the Directors Cut? Why didn't they cut the shit and put that in, they have the scene and VA, just animate it and you're good to go.
Tbh I'm 90% sure that this scene is not cut content. I think they made this scene AFTER release. They just read 'bout all the hate towards Ava, understand their mistakes and made this short movie to calm some people from BL's fanbase. And styled it to "storyboard-cutscene" to imitate it as actual cut cutscene. Because this scene looks so incredibly important that I never believe they cut it out because of budget or any other reasons. They failed and now just trying to say "Hey, guys, the actual character development and farewell-scene was amazing, we just cut it because... because... nvm, here it is!"
Maybe I'm wrong. I admit it. I don't tell that my words is definitely truth. But I see it like that.
Sorry for my English.
It makes the most sense. Unless Randy just straight up vetoed these scenes out, it makes absolutely no sense for anyone who has written a story more than once to cut these.
@@PenniDeadful it doesn't make sense when we got funeral scenes for Roland and Blood wing back in bl2. Characters mourned openly during the fighting and even after. It's weird how Maya, (who played an important role in gathering the most information on sirens) got shit canned. Just cause they were "deleted scenes" but now we can see them makes them cannon story, that just means the funeral is fanfiction of "how Ava could be not shit."
I feel like it might be a mix of the two, it seems like they had the idea to do these scenes but didn't have the time to make them or even make the storyboard, so they made I to post production. As it stands in base game the transactions throughout the game make no sense. From Maya dying to suddenly being the leader of the firehawks at the end...
This is exactly what I thought. They knew they screwed up and try to "sugarcoat" with this animation like a prize of consolation. C'mon... how the hell this is a cut or deleted scene from one of the most beloved characters on BL. :/
If what you say is true, then that's even worse than leaving this out.
The reason I loved Borderlands 2 was because of it's highs and lows. It was filled with memorable jokes but when they had to get serious, they did. The deaths in Borderlands 2 meant something! Borderlands 2 had an entire DLC centered around Tiny Tina's grieving process.. The deleted scenes would have made me change my mind about Ava.. But since they're cut: fuck Ava
Exactly. This is really well done but it isn't Canon or it would be in the main game. I said before.. if Maya had to die.. should have happened before the final boss. The impact it would make.. the emotion and aggression.. would have been fuelling.. or at least lead up to it.. but no, nothing. Then idiot Lilith decides to give Ava everything.. truly the worst writing..
@@CymbalMonkeywhy because is she small
vh does everything. "here you go ava, you're the leader now even tho you were inconsequential"
You took the words right out of my mouth. These are the scenes we wanted so badly, full of emotion and growth. I can honestly say that this would have made my views of Ava much better. A proper passing of the torch. Someone much more worthy of being a Siren.
Sadly the damage has been done, no amount of dlc will fix the story they've already set into motion.
I wanna know why they chose to leave these scenes out, like this is such a powerful scene where Ava’s WHOLE character would change in the eyes of everyone, it’s actually frustrating that this has been left out.
Gearbox didn’t want people seeing any of the other Bl2 Vault Hunters at the funeral without paying for their DLCs
@@REDunofficial if u buy bl2 now it gives u all of the vault hunters including the dlc characters
@@connorstetts859 I meant that Gearbox wanted the BL2 Vault Hunters to exclusively appear in their DLC's. (Example: Krieg in the Fantastic Fustercluck DLC.)
They stated on Twitter that they really did consider adding this scene, but they felt it went against the borderlands tradition of being goofy.
@@Nightblade2134 Yes. Because Roland and Bloodwing's deaths were very g o o f y.
I think the Director's cut was an excuse to fix the story, and this came after.
I hope so,but then again why'd they make the actual scene in the first place
They should have just scraped the character honestly, have a new villain clip her. People honestly hate her more than all villains. And they're right.
This. The whole ‘deleted scene’ thing is bs. They made this after the fallout about eva/the ending in an attempt to try and safe face.
@@KingMethyx Not how getting voice actors together in a booth works.
Exactly
“What you got on me door? You got nothing, nothin.”
The door has a better personality.
Deleted scenes of Maya's funeral is now canon. Change my mind.
I don't accept it any other way. This is the new canon. It's so much better.
you can like it more, but they still didn't do it, this is them trying to pretend they didn't make and release the game a different way, would have much prefered this don't get me wrong, but yeah this didn't happen cause they didn't care enough to do right by Maya.
Alright, but you won't like me changing your mind.
This wasn't a deleted scene. This single scene fixes dozens of problems players had about Ava, her behavior, how other characters respond to her, the piss poor treatment of Maya's death, and Lillith's seeming incompetence. There is simply no way that a scene with THIS MANY important character moments would be cut from the game. Even a massively incompetent writer would sooner cut worthless filler scenes like Tyreen attacking and then killing Typhon DeLyon over this gem. They made this scene months later, maybe even specifically to be released as part of this dlc, and didn't even have the decency to admit they made a mistake, animate it, and insert it into the game as new canon. And why would they make this scene? Because as a siren and leader of the Raiders and Sanctuary they need Ava to be part of future games, and they know they won't sell as many games if we still hate Ava.
So there we have it. It doesn't make sense, from a business perspective, to cut such an important scene. However, it makes 100% business sense to add this later as an attempt to prevent lost sales for future franchise entries.
@@MonochromaticPrism the damage is done either way im not alone in the fact that I played bl3 day one finished it in 2 days uninstalled it and haven't touched it since ava is shit sure but she wasn't the only issue with the game. First impressions are everything and everyone got the same first impression with this game nothing they add now can change that.
I agree but I'm a type of person who needs. Animation to tell a story and the
Drawing type art in the good fursion of Ava's character is to distracting to call it canon if 2k just said on twiter.hey this is canon then I would call it canon
I love how Lillith only said she got Roland killed, but she also burned all of Pandora
When did she burn all of pandora?
If they introduced the funeral scene as a flashback, that could really help build ava's character in the next borderlands game. An estranged reconnection with Kreig would be interesting too.
I find it crazy that without color, without detail, without well.. everything the cut content was able to emotionally move me, I only wish that these clips sound have been fully and beautifully implemented. I only wonder why they were not used.
The second I read “maya’s funeral” in the behind the scenes I just knew it’s was gonna make the story even more disappointing knowing what could’ve been
Ava: "Maya always said a vault hunter runs towards the fire."
Me: Yeah cause that worked so well for you when you ignored Mayas orders
Yeah, and for Lilith as well, when she went to help Roland and VHs to kill Angel.
It seems like everyone forgets about that Lilith's mistake.
@@TheSpitefulSword nah. That and Lilliths overall performance in Pre-Sequel solidified why I hate her character.
yes Ava run toward the fire and oh, oh no Ava died? I didnt see anything, eh who cares
The funny thing is that Maya tells Ava the exact opposite thing a few missions before she dies.
@@alesin1992 but she still told her not to follow them to the vault.
Ava:
I'm gonna show up when Maya asked me not to and get her killed.
Also Ava:
fIGuRe iT oUt LiLiTh!
EXACTLY!!!
Lmao
That’s why Athena’s is such a short and small planet (/map?), because we were supposed to come back afterwards
Also Kreig isn’t in the main game at all, and that cut scene where he was there was so cool