Interesting thing: since helping speed skills improve berry finding, ingredients, and skills all equally, the only things that make an impact on how effective sneaky snacking would be are any skill trigger and ingredient modifiers. Since the ideal berry specialist would have no ingredient finding, and maybe even ingredient finding down, the impact felt by sneaky snacking would actually be felt LESS than on a non-ideal berry specialist, since the gains from all those "lost" berry procs to ingredient procs occur even less while they are not sneaky snacking. The ideal subskills for bringing that level as low as possible would be an ingredient finding up, main skill down nature with BFS, IFM, and IFS at level 50. This berry mon would be losing the most potential berries to ingredients, and not be losing as much in terms of skill since it has a very low skill trogger rate to begin with, and I bet most players would call that berry mon FAR from optimal.
So correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying that a Berry Specialist with Ingredient Finder M would benefit from sneaking snacking earlier than an optimal one? It would just have lower strength than an optimal one as well right? I guess I need to do more tests! 😅
@iBenBrownPlaysPokemonSleep What he is saying is true. I was doing the calculation on my Alolan Ninetails I just caught because it has BFS and Helping Speed M, but it has an ingredient up nature. The calculation shows that sneaky snacking is more optimal starting at level 40. So sneaky snacking is more optimal for berry finding when ingredient or skill natures and subskills get in the way.
@@RedeemedSteve awesome, thanks for sharing! I would have thought lt the opposite is true! I guess the bottom line is that if we plan to sneaky snack that we should be aware of whether or not our pokemon is better off doing it or not. 😅
@@iBenBrownPlaysPokemonSleep What is interesting as well is that the value of the ingredient affects it as well. So doing the calculation with the Ninetales at level 25, it is more optimal to sneaky snack because it only gets 1 soybean per ingredient find, but when mine unlocks double corn at level 30, it switches to sneaking snacking being worse because of the value of finding 2 corn as opposed to 1 soybean. It is also showing that it would only trigger it's skill on itself as well.
While I agree with your take, for me it will only make sense to sneaky snack with your berry specialists when the ingredients it brings are not used at all and just use space in your bag. Specially when you're overloading your bag with ingredients because of GCT or a bonus from an event. I remember that for the Christmas event, I had to let my Walrein sneaky snack 24/7 because it had a +1 ing bonus and none of them were useful for the meals I was preparing. It was a waste of strength and space in my inventory. It was for sure a niche situation for sneaky snacking.
Thanks for sharing. There are certainly cases where sneaking snacking makes sense, but as a 24-hour and full team strategy I think people are generally misinformed.
Sorry to say your sims actually weren’t giving base ingredient values (unless you had an area bonus set or something that I missed) - you were averaging north of 200 for the ingredients shown. Ingredient recipe bonus strength at one point was a complete blind spot for RaenonX (as you discuss), but these days there’s a base recipe it gives you even if you don’t set something manually. It’s still a lot more complicated than RaenonX lets us believe, but with all that said my conclusion isn’t too different from yours - only sneaky snack good berry specialists when at a high level and you won’t be using the ingredients in a recipe, and even then the value of the skill often makes it more or less a wash.
You’re right, my early screenshots would have had a smallish area bonus applied, but i eventually determined that area bonus was still scaling things equally. I didn’t go back and regrab everything. Good call out, thanks!
Interested to know your findings here if you usually sneaky snack with your Pokemon!
Interesting thing: since helping speed skills improve berry finding, ingredients, and skills all equally, the only things that make an impact on how effective sneaky snacking would be are any skill trigger and ingredient modifiers. Since the ideal berry specialist would have no ingredient finding, and maybe even ingredient finding down, the impact felt by sneaky snacking would actually be felt LESS than on a non-ideal berry specialist, since the gains from all those "lost" berry procs to ingredient procs occur even less while they are not sneaky snacking. The ideal subskills for bringing that level as low as possible would be an ingredient finding up, main skill down nature with BFS, IFM, and IFS at level 50. This berry mon would be losing the most potential berries to ingredients, and not be losing as much in terms of skill since it has a very low skill trogger rate to begin with, and I bet most players would call that berry mon FAR from optimal.
So correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying that a Berry Specialist with Ingredient Finder M would benefit from sneaking snacking earlier than an optimal one?
It would just have lower strength than an optimal one as well right?
I guess I need to do more tests! 😅
@iBenBrownPlaysPokemonSleep What he is saying is true. I was doing the calculation on my Alolan Ninetails I just caught because it has BFS and Helping Speed M, but it has an ingredient up nature. The calculation shows that sneaky snacking is more optimal starting at level 40. So sneaky snacking is more optimal for berry finding when ingredient or skill natures and subskills get in the way.
@@RedeemedSteve awesome, thanks for sharing! I would have thought lt the opposite is true! I guess the bottom line is that if we plan to sneaky snack that we should be aware of whether or not our pokemon is better off doing it or not. 😅
@@iBenBrownPlaysPokemonSleep What is interesting as well is that the value of the ingredient affects it as well. So doing the calculation with the Ninetales at level 25, it is more optimal to sneaky snack because it only gets 1 soybean per ingredient find, but when mine unlocks double corn at level 30, it switches to sneaking snacking being worse because of the value of finding 2 corn as opposed to 1 soybean. It is also showing that it would only trigger it's skill on itself as well.
While I agree with your take, for me it will only make sense to sneaky snack with your berry specialists when the ingredients it brings are not used at all and just use space in your bag. Specially when you're overloading your bag with ingredients because of GCT or a bonus from an event. I remember that for the Christmas event, I had to let my Walrein sneaky snack 24/7 because it had a +1 ing bonus and none of them were useful for the meals I was preparing. It was a waste of strength and space in my inventory. It was for sure a niche situation for sneaky snacking.
Thanks for sharing. There are certainly cases where sneaking snacking makes sense, but as a 24-hour and full team strategy I think people are generally misinformed.
But what you're not considering is that Sneaky Snacking is great alliteration. Who cares about the efficiency? SNEAK THE SNACKS.
I mean the reality is that sneaky snacks are objectively better than regular snacks.
Sorry to say your sims actually weren’t giving base ingredient values (unless you had an area bonus set or something that I missed) - you were averaging north of 200 for the ingredients shown.
Ingredient recipe bonus strength at one point was a complete blind spot for RaenonX (as you discuss), but these days there’s a base recipe it gives you even if you don’t set something manually. It’s still a lot more complicated than RaenonX lets us believe, but with all that said my conclusion isn’t too different from yours - only sneaky snack good berry specialists when at a high level and you won’t be using the ingredients in a recipe, and even then the value of the skill often makes it more or less a wash.
You’re right, my early screenshots would have had a smallish area bonus applied, but i eventually determined that area bonus was still scaling things equally. I didn’t go back and regrab everything. Good call out, thanks!