This ship is pretty damn insane. We'll see how the stats even out, if they will, in the coming weeks. Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz
Hallo hallo @flamu. Plss, make a note / correction, that without IFHE its only 24mm efective pen. I think you know it, and you only forgot, how the WG math works... I know, that its usable only for about 3% not 14p potato-captains, but it is so... Thanks.
I'm an akizuki fan... But this is too much.. I don't like t10 ships with reloads under 6,5 seconds.. Des Moines, Worcester, all the gunboats dds should be taken off the game or just get higher reloads..
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Khabarovsk the wise? It is not a story a cruiser, nor DD or battleship would tell you. It is a DD legend. Khabarovsk, most balansed DD of T10, so powerful and fast, he could influence his foes fate. He had such a knowledge of gunboating that he could prevent fellow DD's death by radar. Russian Bias is a pathway to abilities some capitalist pigs consider unnatural. He became so powerful that the only thing he feared was loosing his balans, which he eventually did. Unfortunately, the Japanese anime copycat was given everything Khaba knew. Harugumo with Flamu as captain detonated him in update 0.7.8. How ironic, he could save others from becoming balansed, but not himself.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Khabarovsk the wise? It is not a story a cruiser or battleship would tell you. It is a DD legend. Khabarovsk, most balansed DD of T10, so powerful and fast, he could influence his foes fate. He had such a knowledge of gunboating that he could prevent fellow DD's death by radar. Russian Bias is a pathway to abilities some capitalist pigs consider unnatural. He became so powerful that the only thing he feared was loosing his balans, which he eventually did. Unfortunately, the Japanese anime copycat was given everything Khaba knew. Harugumo with Flamu as captain detonated him in update 0.7.8. How ironic, he could save others from becoming balansed, but not himself.
Gearing class carried 422 shells per gun, IJN shells are smaller and their destroyers much larger. Count on 500+ shells at the very least per gun. That means, with 3 second reload even, that for 1 minute you only shoot 20 shells per gun. So no, running out of ammo is not going to happen.
So now the answer to the RN's "Print New Ship" heal is the IJN's "Reign of Fire" even moar dakka dakka. Next will be the outrageous OP'ness of the high tier RN DD's. In six months, the Italian or French high tier DD's will be getting all the grief. It's called the Monty Haul Syndrome. It happened in tanks; now it's starting to snowball here.
I don't get it, other japanese DDs have to choose between smoke and torpedo reload booster, yet these ones get both. In my opinion they should remove one consumable slot and force the player to make a choice: you want to sit in smoke and wreck stuff? Fine, but you lose the ability to drop 12 torpedoes at a time. You still want your torpedoes to be a threat? No problem, but there's no smoke to back you up when things get exciting. This might be a nice way of balancing those ships.
Haragumo is to slow to play without smoke as escape option, and in smoke is easy to torp due to size / sluggish acceleration / huge turning radius. Let's wait for a month or two and see when the plebs unlock this ship how the stats are. And if they need to nerf something right now, they should give it worse concealment as for a gunboat destroyer the concealment is way to close too torpedo oriented destroyers.
I think we can all agree that the issue with the Harugumo is the guns. They pen 32mm, there's 10 of them, and they have insane DPS. So, this means the guns should be nerfed. I doubt they would retract the 1/4 pen since they already gave it to Akizuki and Kitakaze, which are both balanced. Also, the arcs and shell speed won't change to being USN DD like; that is not their role. The damage per shell of the guns make sense also, and the same goes for the fire chance. This leaves 2 factors; Gun reload and turret traverse. Turret traverse could be increased which would be an interesting change by WG, but it is unlikely. I believe the issue lies in the Gun reload. If they increased the ships reload a bit so it wasn't such a DPS monster it wouldn't be able to melt BBs and utterly murder DDs.
Ya know. No one ever said a thing when USN DD had AA guns and torpedos in one combo along with defensive AA. We get a 25% buffed gun dps from the akizuki line with lousy shima torps that can be spotted early and open far and wide up from that 6 tube launcher with TRB consumable while being the longest DD and 800+ m turning radius in the game and everyone freaks out. Smh its time for IJN DD to shine
I agree!!! 1. make that insane dpm a consumable (instead of torpedo boost, WHOOOSH 2 nerfs at once), lets say 2,5s reload for 30-45s and then on cooldown only 6,5s as a drawback, with a normal 4,5s reload. would still be strong. 2. get this fucking thing a citadel and make it as such that all ships with guns bigger than ~155mm will still overmatch. this'll make RN cruisers etc. a good counter in knife fights and give other dds some chance. 3. nerf detection from 6.2km to 6.7km or 7.2km. what the hell WG, this thing is almost as big as a mogami. 4. no special IFHE treatment for this bastard, what the hell? it can still roast anything with the fire chance alone. 5. DON'T GIVE IT ANOTHER GIMMICK, WG WTH!!! The possibilities are there, but WG is too damn drunk on vodka again to see them. And sorry, Flamu is my favourite WOWS youtuber and I luckily haven't met a Harugumo 1v1 yet but this ship is so fucking OP it doesn't need discussing! Ofc it's weak to radar, torps and CV but what are the odds of a competent cv player on your field spotting and torping the enemy harugumo sucessfully? yeah. what are the odds of an intelligent worchester player popping a radar for good and hitting enough rainbow shells to kill that pest? wouldn't bet on it. what are the odds of me hitting his smoke with his bitch ass still in it with any ship when even a semi-braindead player might as well spam anyone from range, without even popping smoke? with any ship WOWS has to offer, would maybe wanna face this abomination in three, in another harugumo, a worchester and a conqueror with good rng. another thing is that the few good to god tier players will score enormous amounts of damage by simply clicking left mouse key all game while the dumbsters fuck up consistently. while this may even the chances for the rest, if you meet one good enemy harugumo player, you might as well disconnect right then. i've got nothing against dmp monsters, but at least make it a fucking challenge. this ship was designed by braindead people and trained dog could succeed in it.
You can complain all you want, but WG simply doesn´t care about balance. Bringing this ship out with the start of ranked is the perfect tactic to force people to free xp it.
Harugumo looks op becuz its strengths and weaknesses are too extreme. When u do it right and get the guns to work, u melt enemies. When u misplay or the enemy outsmarts u with a surprise radar or plane spots, drop some torps on u or wutever, it is extremely rough to react and survive. U get caught hands down ur dead. The only way to survive is to avoid shits before they happen. This means if u want to melt ppl and not die, u really need a lot of experience on how enemies are gonna move, how r they gonna counter play, where to pos urself to get dmg etc....Gotta master these before u can make this ship a true terror. This kinda sound like "oh, thats just the minotaur and worcester experience when it comes to survival" but that aint really the case. When u make mistakes in those ships u might eat a ton of dmg but there are still scenarios where u can survive, heal back up and fight again. For Harugumo, no u just die. I kinda feel like Harugumo is taking the minotaur and worcester experience to the extreme in both strengths and weaknesses Yes I have this ship ive been playin it for a few days but im mostly a bb player and im used to dds with good stealth like shima and gearing, so im just an average player in this kind of ship and I find it challenging to play
“That’s not normal” lmfao Superintendent also adds a torp reload. The torps Reload so slowly, the Reload Booster comes on line almost at the same time. 2 torp spreads are better than 1. I understand your analysis regarding Priority Target. However, Harugumo turrets are fragile and the torps tubes are, well, torp tubes. Preventative Maintenance does help. I didn’t do well in Harugumo while playing it like a DD. Then someone suggested playing it like a mini Mino. Viola!
This is WG's WoT's model. Create OP'ed Premiums and introduce/rework new lines that are ridiculously OP'ed. Spend that free XP, which, by the way, is not free...chaching! This shit breaks the game, I mean come on a DD that literally mealts BB's??? I've quit tanks and it feels great. Might be time for a WoW's uninstall. Flamu excellent, excellent, excellent commentary and content as always pal...many thanks.
Things get retarded when the smallest main guns in the game are capable of penetrating 32mm battleship armour. Like wtf - no other destroyer is capable of this. Battleships can cry all they like to Destroyer Torps - which is clearly underpowered in this game - like battleship captains in general. But this is clearly not the case with Harugumo and the 100mm 1/4th pen +ifhe - shit just gets retarded.
DDs have it hard enough with all that radar... now there is a DD that performs well, the BBs start ranting again... BBs are still the most balanced of all classes. but i understand you, the harugomo seems a bit overpowered, but dont worry, there seems to be a Weapon called the "Legendary Nerfhammer of Wargaming" it has +5 for defending BBs and +7 for attack against japanese DDs ;)
Giving it 1/5th HE PEN at 20mm is good enough for the IJN 100mm - enough to punch through Destroyer 19mm armour and Battleship superstructure - is sufficient enough without having to use IFHE. Harugumo - itself is already strong artillery wise and is pretty balanced - the 1/4th HE pen is just too much. I find it also hilarious Harugumo is a competitive torpedo boat - when in comparison to Shimakaze - literally only 3 torps behind from shimakaze - with the 12km torps (no one uses the RGB 20km torps spotted from the moon) thanks to TRB.
Well but if you make them unable to dmg 32mm armor you end up with a useless destroyer. It being so clumsy is what makes it worse at knifefighting, like Akizuki the risk of getting torped by a competent enemy destroyer is to darn high to be running point guy. If you can't play point guy, you're value to the team consist on your support power which is mostly against hard/big targets. If you remove the pen capability, the only way you can compensate that is with increasing DoT capabilities ( which will cause further complaints by people because it will start to many fires ).
A mini light cruiser by any other name. The idea behind this ship is quite similar to a Worcester, but sacrificing AA & radar for lack of citadel and smokes.
sure this thing beats Khabarovsk vs battleships, but vs Khabarovsk that's another deal as Khaba is faster and has better gun arcs so can avoid incoming shells, while Harugumo will not be able to avoid Khaba shells. Also, Khaba gets heal. if there is distance, I think Khaba has the advantage
I pulled the plug on this game the day they released the crapsashio after all the CCs and most of the community repeatedly asked them not to. By now I can say: damn glad I did.
check my stats. About an even distribution between DDs, cruisers and BBs. And -THAT- was because I was using the Missouri and Tirpitz as moneymakers. Other than that I grinded all nations, all lines equally - I had tier 9 DDs (Z46 and Fletcher), tier 9 cruisers (Baltimore and Roon), and no tier 9 BB (Well Missouri, but I didn't grind a BB line to reach there, in the american BB line I was in the NCal). I had Tier 8s in every nation and every line, except the british BB line which I left alone after reaching to the QE because it was so stupid. So given that I played everything of every nation equally....well, so much for being a BBaby, right?. And yeah ,indeed, leaving Wargaming alone was a well done thing from my part. It's been years since WoT has been a clusterf*ck, and they're in the process to do exactly the same with WoWS.
+ramjb if that is true I have mistaken you for someone else.. The guy I remembered was always complaining about HE spam and how battleships were UP / misrepresented in game. I also took long breaks from WoWs, and WoT well I play once in a blue moon. But this new Hargumo is actually making me play more, I already have Kitakaze atm and well it's hellafun to play. Charles Martel is fun as well, and I'm still stuck on Neptune which I feel is a turd ( but it's stock, so it might get better with the hull and fcs upgrades ), I got a Benson which is ok but not that exciting to play ( basically it's what I expected it to be, but I played Sims so much the playstyle isn't that appealing anymore atm ). I feel it might be time to grind another BB line, I kind of like Montana's combat role as good concealment roaming battleship and there is no HE spam in the line either. But I just don't feel the same drive anymore, that whole : MUST DO DOUBLES EVERY DAY AT THE LEAST is just totally gone. Sad really, WoWs started out much more addictive.
you must've thought I was someone else entirely indeed. Though very early on in WOWS I did have my complains about battleship accuracy at very close ranges, because it was absolutely atrocious for no good reason. But BB close range accuracy was beefed up significantly since that time, and they've been fine since that change. Well, not the british BBs, which are utterly idiotic, but those weren't around in 2015 so I could hardly complain about them (and as you see my complain is that they're stupid, so a far cry from claiming that they're weak XDDD). I guess harugumo can be fun for the dude playing it but the way I see it I agree with Flamu's views: it's just too good. It has weaknesses but not of the same scale of the strenghts. So the dude playing it will have fun, the rest of the players being shitted on by it while being unable to do too much about it, just won't. For me the american DD line really kicked in with the Benson. And the Fletcher is a beauty, or was until I stopped playing. Never wanted a Gearing, IMO the Fletcher is as good if not better (being one tier lower being a huge part of it) and the Benson was a very good ship to get you ready for the next ship. And was quite fun, too. Guess is a matter of tastes. French cruisers really never kicked with me. For HE spam monster cruisers I already had the russian line to have fun with, and the lack of teamwork oriented consumables quite ruined it for me (Russians at least have Radar from tier 8). But yeah they can be powerhouses in the right hands. Just not very teamwork capable and I do like playing for the team. Which I know is totally bonkers given that 50% of the players in that game are as intelligent as a braindead cockroach but...can't help playing like that, lol. as for the game being less addictive - it's my gripe with it. The way WarGaming seems to envision their long-term goals is to release powercreeping ship after powercreeping ship. With very few exceptions every addition (be it a premium or a new regular line) will powercreep in some way over what's already there. The results for in-game balance on the long term I don't need to explain. And what gets me the worst is that their persistant desire to act against their own community wishes. Sure that some feedback is heeded, but never when it comes down to new ship additions. When the Asashio was released I just had it with them. Not because of the ship (a totally unidimensional one-shot-pony crapship which is objectivelly awful for real destroyer roles), but because WG released it even while it was clear most of the community (and almost every CC doing stuff about the game) didn't want it to be released in that state. Powercreep+a company that just doesn't give a shit about their customer opinions in one of the most vital aspects of the game = I'm out. And out I was, and seems for good this time.
About Priority Target telling you N, then N-1, then again N, I think in part thanks to your videos, this won't always mean torpedoes are coming your way. It can also be that a ship, usually a cruiser, is using his torpedo indicator to take your bearings. ;)
"Not enough Dakka in World of Warships! Buff the Harugumo!" - Wargaming 2018. Sometimes I question that the Balance team of Wargaming is ran by Orkz from WH40k... Patch Notes: "DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA"
im at the kitakaze right now, and i think the akizuki was already balanced around t10 (if you ever got into t8 games in her, you know what i mean). kitakaze is amazing, she reduces the weaknesses of the aki a fair bit, while having the same tier for tier firepower. a blast to play, feels a bit op tho. and i can guess same goes for the harugumo
Every game I've been able to see the shots fired count, they burn through about 1.5k-2.5k rounds per game. For reference, the Fletcher, a much smaller ship with bigger guns, carried 500 rounds per gun for a total of 2.5k. Assuming the Harugumo followed the same principle, she would carry 5k rounds. AFAIK there isn't a ship in the game that goes beyond its historical (or theoretical) ammo capacity.
Curlysan, really what makes you think anything is being done to redeem the original dds from the game that certainly in Shimmy's case is way UP. WOT has never done anything to stop the power creep (except maybe an occasional premium to ensure they still sell)- what makes you think this is different
One thing I've seen happening often to Haragumo, more than even on the Khab, is these ships getting absolutely deleted by Battleship AP. And they're damn easy to hit too.
The entire concept of DD's will need to be re-worked if they do plan to impliment the sub idea. DD's will need to be scouts and sub hunters more and less of this gunboat stuff.
>USN DD have defensive AA guns and torps along with near IJN concealment >KMS gets hydro and fast torp reload speed with decent range and good guns too >Pan Asian gimmick cruiser BB hitting torpedo that also has radar and long lasting smoke while also having good gun reload dps. Also ijn DD concealment too. >IJN DD being underwhelmed by their torpedo boat line with the worst torpedo conceal is ditched. >now we have one IJN DD line that can actually be useful with its gun but is balanced by radar meta, large ship size, bad turning radius and compensated by the same lousy shima torps that have bad concealment. And everyone freaks out. And no one bats an eye that russian DDs also have heal and can do the same dakka dakka with godly speed while the harugumo has to deal with more limitations. Yet ppl are asking to nerf it. I'm done really. Yall just want IJN DD line to stay incompetent.
I have the Haru since 2 Months,i was on 24 Karma,got Reported not from my team but From Enemy Team,had always good Rounds,now i am on 7 Karma,Omegaluul.
Additionally, it has too much potential HE penetration. I could accept it being terrifying to anything slightly larger than itself, but it should never got to a point to where it's melting Battleships. We're talking about 100mm guns here. A few light cruiser and certainly anything bigger than that should have some relatively large immunity zones.
Yeah, the first time I saw one of these in game, I as in a full health Zao and thought I'd be clever and ambush it around an island. Yes, I killed it, but I came out of that with 10% of my health.
ya, but it's not a dido, it could be a british cruiser with def AA, which would be nice, and it got 134's instead of 127 mm guns, it's a novelty thing, and i just think we need more premium cruisers.
If that stays like this, I want the old Khaba back! It was such an OP thing to play, but hey if the Harugumo goes through why not return Khaba to its old glory?
This is where an ammo limit would balance the ship. High burst damage capability but cant daka daka all game long. Cant see that happening though. Interested to play WarThunder Naval Battles
So you can be easly fooled by Priority Target. Simply just the other DD press X turn a bit, and it'll give the same effect and you just start to turn, search those torps, and during the process pay less attention to the DD. :)
Question on the build. Why not take the range increase upgrade over the rate of fire increase since the default rate of fire is blistering to begin with?
Sorry Flamu I find you to be one of best TH-camrs and actually one of community contributors who doesn't try to make idiots of viewers but come one. It's obvious ship at release will have better avg damage - most exp players only have it now mostly. I'm not saying it's not op - but we can't tell now just based on avg data.
Opportunity cost. He can trade 3500 ship HP for +10% DPM across the duration of the game, and he has to estimate which of these resources will give a greater return across the game.
Which Discord? The r/Wows "community" one is mis-managed by a couple of inappropriately-behaving and personal-agenda-seeking admins (Blob...Snow and Taiga aka Black).
I noticed this CV weakness at the first day these new ones hit the live server. Striking Kitakaze even with Ranger torp planes is pretty easy. Its very very clumsy.
If they nerf anything it should be concealment as the good concealment ( or well, the buffer distance... ) is what is supposed to prevent torpedo oriented DD's to be made obsolete by gunboats. In concealment build this thing is way to close to Shima considering the gunpower. Gunboat build concealment would be acceptable when used as stealth ship, it would also make sure no shitters on your team expect you to go contest caps against a Yugumo or something right at game start. edit: if stats in two months are still to inflated then they can try and limit the dakadaka, but I don't think it's needed right away. And no that's not because I like playing OP ships, I think I played less then 10 games in Kita atm and I don't play enough to probably even unlock Haragumo in that time :)
I know it costs you a lot, most notibly AR, but i find getting RL helps a lot with avoiding torps. Also you really do need a little extra range in this ship, so if you're not going AFT, i really think you need the range mod over the reload mod.
How viable is the gun-boat build from the Akizuki through to the Haragumo? I'm intrigued by how much your build with Yamamoto Captain differs from Aki to this.
In every anticipated release of a new ship it always seems like they jump right to the top of the stats board and then the ship gets nerfed. Does anyone ever consider the players who are the first to spend all their free xp to play these ships when they go live? I figure the players that are first to jump in are usually the hardcore gamers that want to really try something new so of course the stats always look better. Over months those players will move on to other ships and the normal player base will come in and bring the ship stats back down to normal levels. This happens every time with a new release of a ship. For example, go look at the Worcester stats and I'm sure it will be up there at the top too.
Why always moar and moar BBaby whine? No really, do you WANT every ship to have Minotaur AP ( buffed a bit ofc, since you need to offset the DoT capabilities you're lacking with AP only )?
Hey Flamu, I am currently using the kitakaze not yet the haregumo. My setup is a little different. I use gun fire mod 2 in the last slot (for extra range) and then use concealment instead of AFT so you can get both a stealth as well as a gunboat build. Is something like this viable on the haregumo?? ( still 172000xp to go for me i am afraid)
So what is your counter to it? I assume the only real counter is for it to be radared and then focused. I had success in a game in a z-52 where I smoked up and hydroed him and wrecked him with AP.
I have had several games with this Harugumo on the enemy team. We could do literally nothing about it despite knowing we had to kill it and trying as a team to focus and counter it the entire game. There is almost no counter to it that I have found in game yet. Sure its clumsy....but so what...it dosen't need to go anywhere. The enemy flees before it....
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
This ship is pretty damn insane. We'll see how the stats even out, if they will, in the coming weeks.
Discord: discord.gg/Flamu
Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu
Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz
Could you unban me from your discord please? I got banned like 7 months ago and I've become a much better player.
My discord is TheDreamyBee#1861
Hallo hallo @flamu. Plss, make a note / correction, that without IFHE its only 24mm efective pen. I think you know it, and you only forgot, how the WG math works... I know, that its usable only for about 3% not 14p potato-captains, but it is so... Thanks.
I'm an akizuki fan... But this is too much.. I don't like t10 ships with reloads under 6,5 seconds.. Des Moines, Worcester, all the gunboats dds should be taken off the game or just get higher reloads..
Whaa whaaa low caliber guns should be useless, high tiers should be about the big bad battleships only whaa whaaa
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Khabarovsk the wise?
It is not a story a cruiser, nor DD or battleship would tell you. It is a DD legend.
Khabarovsk, most balansed DD of T10, so powerful and fast, he could influence his foes fate. He had such a knowledge of gunboating that he could prevent fellow DD's death by radar.
Russian Bias is a pathway to abilities some capitalist pigs consider unnatural.
He became so powerful that the only thing he feared was loosing his balans, which he eventually did. Unfortunately, the Japanese anime copycat was given everything Khaba knew. Harugumo with Flamu as captain detonated him in update 0.7.8.
How ironic, he could save others from becoming balansed, but not himself.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Khabarovsk the wise?
It is not a story a cruiser or battleship would tell you. It is a DD legend.
Khabarovsk, most balansed DD of T10, so powerful and fast, he could influence his foes fate. He had such a knowledge of gunboating that he could prevent fellow DD's death by radar.
Russian Bias is a pathway to abilities some capitalist pigs consider unnatural.
He became so powerful that the only thing he feared was loosing his balans, which he eventually did. Unfortunately, the Japanese anime copycat was given everything Khaba knew. Harugumo with Flamu as captain detonated him in update 0.7.8.
How ironic, he could save others from becoming balansed, but not himself.
im dead lmao nice star wars reference
What does Imao mean
@@stevewonder10 "laughing my ass off"
right
You are Legend
"That doesn't look like any destroyer firepower I've ever seen." -Flamu 2018
Apparently you've never seen the power of Imperial Star Destroyers.
Ah, now the true meaning of "Base Delta Zero"
I see a trend coming.
Cuisers acting like battleships
Destroyers acting like cruisers
What next? Battleships acting like CV's???
Aviation battleships after the carrier rework?
Tone needs to be in the Game.
After the CV rework, CVs may take the place of DDs...
Check the Ise-Class Battleship if you want to see a hybrid BB/CV
Ise class Japanese "battlecarrier." Look it up
Sir, it appears that we ran out of ammo
Ikr, if this rof was real, this ship would run out of shells extremely quickly.
Gearing class carried 422 shells per gun, IJN shells are smaller and their destroyers much larger. Count on 500+ shells at the very least per gun. That means, with 3 second reload even, that for 1 minute you only shoot 20 shells per gun.
So no, running out of ammo is not going to happen.
@@MarvinWestmaas i know. impossible ro run out of ammo in 20 minutes. even if one shoots for the 20 minutes straight
I do think barrel life of these 100mm gun's was rather limited, so playing 2 battles might wear out the barrel and require a new bore xD
3 sec reload in 1 min = 20 shells per gun? doesnt the Haragumo have Twin -Towers- Turrets?
Tier 8 was already pretty nightmarish. Now anything tier 8 up is becoming a no-go zone. I do not care for these developments.
Yea it does look pretty cancerous.
Good thing Worcesters exist to kill these things
"It's raining lead... Hallelujah, it's raining lead!"
With 10 games in this ship and Hundreds in the akizuki I can say her Firepower is OP,
I it’s DPM is so high not even the British BBs Heal can keep up
So now the answer to the RN's "Print New Ship" heal is the IJN's "Reign of Fire" even moar dakka dakka. Next will be the outrageous OP'ness of the high tier RN DD's. In six months, the Italian or French high tier DD's will be getting all the grief. It's called the Monty Haul Syndrome. It happened in tanks; now it's starting to snowball here.
If a cheeky radar cruiser uses it's radar on you, shoot back with impunity - Harugumo the Powerful, to the gunboat DD disciples.
I don't get it, other japanese DDs have to choose between smoke and torpedo reload booster, yet these ones get both. In my opinion they should remove one consumable slot and force the player to make a choice: you want to sit in smoke and wreck stuff? Fine, but you lose the ability to drop 12 torpedoes at a time. You still want your torpedoes to be a threat? No problem, but there's no smoke to back you up when things get exciting.
This might be a nice way of balancing those ships.
Haragumo is to slow to play without smoke as escape option, and in smoke is easy to torp due to size / sluggish acceleration / huge turning radius.
Let's wait for a month or two and see when the plebs unlock this ship how the stats are. And if they need to nerf something right now, they should give it worse concealment as for a gunboat destroyer the concealment is way to close too torpedo oriented destroyers.
I think we can all agree that the issue with the Harugumo is the guns. They pen 32mm, there's 10 of them, and they have insane DPS. So, this means the guns should be nerfed. I doubt they would retract the 1/4 pen since they already gave it to Akizuki and Kitakaze, which are both balanced. Also, the arcs and shell speed won't change to being USN DD like; that is not their role. The damage per shell of the guns make sense also, and the same goes for the fire chance. This leaves 2 factors; Gun reload and turret traverse. Turret traverse could be increased which would be an interesting change by WG, but it is unlikely. I believe the issue lies in the Gun reload. If they increased the ships reload a bit so it wasn't such a DPS monster it wouldn't be able to melt BBs and utterly murder DDs.
just making 1/5 pen will solve the problem
Ya know. No one ever said a thing when USN DD had AA guns and torpedos in one combo along with defensive AA. We get a 25% buffed gun dps from the akizuki line with lousy shima torps that can be spotted early and open far and wide up from that 6 tube launcher with TRB consumable while being the longest DD and 800+ m turning radius in the game and everyone freaks out.
Smh its time for IJN DD to shine
Cut the pen by 1mm.
I agree!!!
1. make that insane dpm a consumable (instead of torpedo boost, WHOOOSH 2 nerfs at once), lets say 2,5s reload for 30-45s and then on cooldown only 6,5s as a drawback, with a normal 4,5s reload. would still be strong.
2. get this fucking thing a citadel and make it as such that all ships with guns bigger than ~155mm will still overmatch. this'll make RN cruisers etc. a good counter in knife fights and give other dds some chance.
3. nerf detection from 6.2km to 6.7km or 7.2km. what the hell WG, this thing is almost as big as a mogami.
4. no special IFHE treatment for this bastard, what the hell? it can still roast anything with the fire chance alone.
5. DON'T GIVE IT ANOTHER GIMMICK, WG WTH!!!
The possibilities are there, but WG is too damn drunk on vodka again to see them.
And sorry, Flamu is my favourite WOWS youtuber and I luckily haven't met a Harugumo 1v1 yet but this ship is so fucking OP it doesn't need discussing! Ofc it's weak to radar, torps and CV but what are the odds of a competent cv player on your field spotting and torping the enemy harugumo sucessfully? yeah. what are the odds of an intelligent worchester player popping a radar for good and hitting enough rainbow shells to kill that pest? wouldn't bet on it. what are the odds of me hitting his smoke with his bitch ass still in it with any ship when even a semi-braindead player might as well spam anyone from range, without even popping smoke?
with any ship WOWS has to offer, would maybe wanna face this abomination in three, in another harugumo, a worchester and a conqueror with good rng.
another thing is that the few good to god tier players will score enormous amounts of damage by simply clicking left mouse key all game while the dumbsters fuck up consistently. while this may even the chances for the rest, if you meet one good enemy harugumo player, you might as well disconnect right then. i've got nothing against dmp monsters, but at least make it a fucking challenge. this ship was designed by braindead people and trained dog could succeed in it.
emphasisis on AGAIN lol
"thats not normal"
"wait till you see my AR kick in"
Meeting a radar cruiser is like meeting a black bear. Don't flee, fight back and scare him off.
*Immediately goes for dakka dakka build*
You can complain all you want, but WG simply doesn´t care about balance. Bringing this ship out with the start of ranked is the perfect tactic to force people to free xp it.
Excellent video! After watching your last review video - I ground up to her AND I LOVE HER! Good recommendation!
Harugumo looks op becuz its strengths and weaknesses are too extreme. When u do it right and get the guns to work, u melt enemies. When u misplay or the enemy outsmarts u with a surprise radar or plane spots, drop some torps on u or wutever, it is extremely rough to react and survive. U get caught hands down ur dead. The only way to survive is to avoid shits before they happen.
This means if u want to melt ppl and not die, u really need a lot of experience on how enemies are gonna move, how r they gonna counter play, where to pos urself to get dmg etc....Gotta master these before u can make this ship a true terror.
This kinda sound like "oh, thats just the minotaur and worcester experience when it comes to survival" but that aint really the case. When u make mistakes in those ships u might eat a ton of dmg but there are still scenarios where u can survive, heal back up and fight again.
For Harugumo, no u just die.
I kinda feel like Harugumo is taking the minotaur and worcester experience to the extreme in both strengths and weaknesses
Yes I have this ship ive been playin it for a few days but im mostly a bb player and im used to dds with good stealth like shima and gearing, so im just an average player in this kind of ship and I find it challenging to play
“That’s not normal” lmfao
Superintendent also adds a torp reload. The torps Reload so slowly, the Reload Booster comes on line almost at the same time. 2 torp spreads are better than 1.
I understand your analysis regarding Priority Target. However, Harugumo turrets are fragile and the torps tubes are, well, torp tubes. Preventative Maintenance does help.
I didn’t do well in Harugumo while playing it like a DD. Then someone suggested playing it like a mini Mino. Viola!
This ship along with Conqueror is the best example of how WG does not care ...
WG will NEVER let this stand. Get ready for a Khaba buff.
This is WG's WoT's model. Create OP'ed Premiums and introduce/rework new lines that are ridiculously OP'ed. Spend that free XP, which, by the way, is not free...chaching! This shit breaks the game, I mean come on a DD that literally mealts BB's??? I've quit tanks and it feels great. Might be time for a WoW's uninstall. Flamu excellent, excellent, excellent commentary and content as always pal...many thanks.
Whaa whaaa whaaa a DD which counters battleships Whaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa
You done crying? I bet you think a DD which torps BB's is also bad right..
Things get retarded when the smallest main guns in the game are capable of penetrating 32mm battleship armour. Like wtf - no other destroyer is capable of this. Battleships can cry all they like to Destroyer Torps - which is clearly underpowered in this game - like battleship captains in general. But this is clearly not the case with Harugumo and the 100mm 1/4th pen +ifhe - shit just gets retarded.
DDs have it hard enough with all that radar... now there is a DD that performs well, the BBs start ranting again... BBs are still the most balanced of all classes.
but i understand you, the harugomo seems a bit overpowered, but dont worry, there seems to be a Weapon called the "Legendary Nerfhammer of Wargaming" it has +5 for defending BBs and +7 for attack against japanese DDs ;)
Giving it 1/5th HE PEN at 20mm is good enough for the IJN 100mm - enough to punch through Destroyer 19mm armour and Battleship superstructure - is sufficient enough without having to use IFHE. Harugumo - itself is already strong artillery wise and is pretty balanced - the 1/4th HE pen is just too much. I find it also hilarious Harugumo is a competitive torpedo boat - when in comparison to Shimakaze - literally only 3 torps behind from shimakaze - with the 12km torps (no one uses the RGB 20km torps spotted from the moon) thanks to TRB.
Well but if you make them unable to dmg 32mm armor you end up with a useless destroyer. It being so clumsy is what makes it worse at knifefighting, like Akizuki the risk of getting torped by a competent enemy destroyer is to darn high to be running point guy. If you can't play point guy, you're value to the team consist on your support power which is mostly against hard/big targets. If you remove the pen capability, the only way you can compensate that is with increasing DoT capabilities ( which will cause further complaints by people because it will start to many fires ).
Daring - Step Aside Harugumo
I remember that game at 13:45. The CV was non other than Adam_1000. Flamus comment was gold:
"He might be a Super Unicum but Im Flamu"
That thing calls out for a significant nerf. Loudly.
Man, seeing takao in the commander list brought back bad memories of missing her in the event back in the day! >.<
#shipcollector
A mini light cruiser by any other name. The idea behind this ship is quite similar to a Worcester, but sacrificing AA & radar for lack of citadel and smokes.
Finally we can call Khabarovsk a DD!
Do you still think it is too strong or has it been power--creeped?
Dakka Dakka Huh? Looks like a lot of fun.
Oh look, it's that golden shower ship!
sure this thing beats Khabarovsk vs battleships, but vs Khabarovsk that's another deal as Khaba is faster and has better gun arcs so can avoid incoming shells, while Harugumo will not be able to avoid Khaba shells. Also, Khaba gets heal. if there is distance, I think Khaba has the advantage
It's a fantastic super-light cruiser if that's what you want.
I pulled the plug on this game the day they released the crapsashio after all the CCs and most of the community repeatedly asked them not to.
By now I can say: damn glad I did.
Whaa whaa BBaby ( yeah I recognize your name, I know who you are xD ). Thank god you left the game, well done really!
check my stats. About an even distribution between DDs, cruisers and BBs. And -THAT- was because I was using the Missouri and Tirpitz as moneymakers. Other than that I grinded all nations, all lines equally - I had tier 9 DDs (Z46 and Fletcher), tier 9 cruisers (Baltimore and Roon), and no tier 9 BB (Well Missouri, but I didn't grind a BB line to reach there, in the american BB line I was in the NCal). I had Tier 8s in every nation and every line, except the british BB line which I left alone after reaching to the QE because it was so stupid.
So given that I played everything of every nation equally....well, so much for being a BBaby, right?.
And yeah ,indeed, leaving Wargaming alone was a well done thing from my part. It's been years since WoT has been a clusterf*ck, and they're in the process to do exactly the same with WoWS.
+ramjb if that is true I have mistaken you for someone else.. The guy I remembered was always complaining about HE spam and how battleships were UP / misrepresented in game.
I also took long breaks from WoWs, and WoT well I play once in a blue moon. But this new Hargumo is actually making me play more, I already have Kitakaze atm and well it's hellafun to play. Charles Martel is fun as well, and I'm still stuck on Neptune which I feel is a turd ( but it's stock, so it might get better with the hull and fcs upgrades ), I got a Benson which is ok but not that exciting to play ( basically it's what I expected it to be, but I played Sims so much the playstyle isn't that appealing anymore atm ). I feel it might be time to grind another BB line, I kind of like Montana's combat role as good concealment roaming battleship and there is no HE spam in the line either. But I just don't feel the same drive anymore, that whole : MUST DO DOUBLES EVERY DAY AT THE LEAST is just totally gone. Sad really, WoWs started out much more addictive.
you must've thought I was someone else entirely indeed. Though very early on in WOWS I did have my complains about battleship accuracy at very close ranges, because it was absolutely atrocious for no good reason. But BB close range accuracy was beefed up significantly since that time, and they've been fine since that change. Well, not the british BBs, which are utterly idiotic, but those weren't around in 2015 so I could hardly complain about them (and as you see my complain is that they're stupid, so a far cry from claiming that they're weak XDDD).
I guess harugumo can be fun for the dude playing it but the way I see it I agree with Flamu's views: it's just too good. It has weaknesses but not of the same scale of the strenghts. So the dude playing it will have fun, the rest of the players being shitted on by it while being unable to do too much about it, just won't.
For me the american DD line really kicked in with the Benson. And the Fletcher is a beauty, or was until I stopped playing. Never wanted a Gearing, IMO the Fletcher is as good if not better (being one tier lower being a huge part of it) and the Benson was a very good ship to get you ready for the next ship. And was quite fun, too. Guess is a matter of tastes.
French cruisers really never kicked with me. For HE spam monster cruisers I already had the russian line to have fun with, and the lack of teamwork oriented consumables quite ruined it for me (Russians at least have Radar from tier 8). But yeah they can be powerhouses in the right hands. Just not very teamwork capable and I do like playing for the team. Which I know is totally bonkers given that 50% of the players in that game are as intelligent as a braindead cockroach but...can't help playing like that, lol.
as for the game being less addictive - it's my gripe with it. The way WarGaming seems to envision their long-term goals is to release powercreeping ship after powercreeping ship. With very few exceptions every addition (be it a premium or a new regular line) will powercreep in some way over what's already there. The results for in-game balance on the long term I don't need to explain. And what gets me the worst is that their persistant desire to act against their own community wishes. Sure that some feedback is heeded, but never when it comes down to new ship additions. When the Asashio was released I just had it with them. Not because of the ship (a totally unidimensional one-shot-pony crapship which is objectivelly awful for real destroyer roles), but because WG released it even while it was clear most of the community (and almost every CC doing stuff about the game) didn't want it to be released in that state.
Powercreep+a company that just doesn't give a shit about their customer opinions in one of the most vital aspects of the game = I'm out. And out I was, and seems for good this time.
There are now 3 standard IJN DDs that don't completely suck.
About Priority Target telling you N, then N-1, then again N, I think in part thanks to your videos, this won't always mean torpedoes are coming your way. It can also be that a ship, usually a cruiser, is using his torpedo indicator to take your bearings. ;)
"Not enough Dakka in World of Warships! Buff the Harugumo!" - Wargaming 2018. Sometimes I question that the Balance team of Wargaming is ran by Orkz from WH40k...
Patch Notes:
"DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA"
Finally IJN have a fun ship to play ?
THX Flomu i just change my Harugumo settings and your settings are much better :) thx
A destroyer that destroyers everything.
I am not sure, but I think that the Harugumo is larger than the cleveland.
Harugumo: Khabarovsk? Hold My Beer.
im at the kitakaze right now, and i think the akizuki was already balanced around t10 (if you ever got into t8 games in her, you know what i mean). kitakaze is amazing, she reduces the weaknesses of the aki a fair bit, while having the same tier for tier firepower.
a blast to play, feels a bit op tho. and i can guess same goes for the harugumo
Harugumo would die so fast in a cyclone, spots a Wooster, a few seconds later dead :D
Interesting to watch this now, as Flamu declared this ship dead in the current meta just the other day.
With the endless radar, this thing and the Worcester , the game play is getting shittier with every patch.
Imagine WG implymented Limited Ammo Capacity for every ship in the game!
The Harugumo will eat through its Ammo in the 1st 5-10 mins of the Game! LOL!
Every game I've been able to see the shots fired count, they burn through about 1.5k-2.5k rounds per game. For reference, the Fletcher, a much smaller ship with bigger guns, carried 500 rounds per gun for a total of 2.5k. Assuming the Harugumo followed the same principle, she would carry 5k rounds. AFAIK there isn't a ship in the game that goes beyond its historical (or theoretical) ammo capacity.
Guys can anyone see a trend for the 2 OG DDs in game? They now suck beyond anything (Gearing and Shima)
Gearing is fine, Shima was already dead for a long time.
Hero's become Heels, become Hero's once again. Is treadmill...
Curlysan, really what makes you think anything is being done to redeem the original dds from the game that certainly in Shimmy's case is way UP. WOT has never done anything to stop the power creep (except maybe an occasional premium to ensure they still sell)- what makes you think this is different
The Harugumo is now officially the "Big Khaba"
Knodsil You mean the Japanese light cruiser?
Spineking Jørgensen yes, that one
Knodsil :P
Took at least 20 games to get from rank 15 to 14. Even 180k in dm couldn't carry.
All just win lose win lose lose win
What is your normal randoms winrate?
13:45 Only Flamu shows a weakness of a ship by out super unicuming a super unicum ;)
One thing I've seen happening often to Haragumo, more than even on the Khab, is these ships getting absolutely deleted by Battleship AP. And they're damn easy to hit too.
Good, then. Don’t see why they shouldn’t be with the way they have more firepower than even RU dds..
They need to rebalance this ship and the kitakaze too.
Rebalance? That suggests it was balanced and needs it again.....how about being balanced for the 1st time...?
The entire concept of DD's will need to be re-worked if they do plan to impliment the sub idea. DD's will need to be scouts and sub hunters more and less of this gunboat stuff.
>USN DD have defensive AA guns and torps along with near IJN concealment
>KMS gets hydro and fast torp reload speed with decent range and good guns too
>Pan Asian gimmick cruiser BB hitting torpedo that also has radar and long lasting smoke while also having good gun reload dps. Also ijn DD concealment too.
>IJN DD being underwhelmed by their torpedo boat line with the worst torpedo conceal is ditched.
>now we have one IJN DD line that can actually be useful with its gun but is balanced by radar meta, large ship size, bad turning radius and compensated by the same lousy shima torps that have bad concealment.
And everyone freaks out. And no one bats an eye that russian DDs also have heal and can do the same dakka dakka with godly speed while the harugumo has to deal with more limitations. Yet ppl are asking to nerf it.
I'm done really. Yall just want IJN DD line to stay incompetent.
I hope to get this unlocked and purchased before it's nerfed.
I have the Haru since 2 Months,i was on 24 Karma,got Reported not from my team but From Enemy Team,had always good Rounds,now i am on 7 Karma,Omegaluul.
Additionally, it has too much potential HE penetration. I could accept it being terrifying to anything slightly larger than itself, but it should never got to a point to where it's melting Battleships. We're talking about 100mm guns here. A few light cruiser and certainly anything bigger than that should have some relatively large immunity zones.
wow does it ever run out
Yeah, the first time I saw one of these in game, I as in a full health Zao and thought I'd be clever and ambush it around an island. Yes, I killed it, but I came out of that with 10% of my health.
Is this a preview of what we can expect of the DIDO class anti aircraft cruiser?
Atlanta is a Dido with more turrets :/
ya, but it's not a dido, it could be a british cruiser with def AA, which would be nice, and it got 134's instead of 127 mm guns, it's a novelty thing, and i just think we need more premium cruisers.
If that stays like this, I want the old Khaba back! It was such an OP thing to play, but hey if the Harugumo goes through why not return Khaba to its old glory?
"They hit like truck"
It's a baby wooooooooooster... I love my Harugumo.. I m actually more prone to take on BBs in it..
UNLIMITED POWERRRRR!
(they should've let the Harugumo shoot force lighting instead)
I honestly fail to see how some of the earlier release ships (cough ibuki cough) are even remotely competitive now.
its an addition of chaba and gearing ^^
But Flamu..
What if you use both builds; a gunboat build with a survivability build..? *It enhances the cheekyness*
This is where an ammo limit would balance the ship. High burst damage capability but cant daka daka all game long. Cant see that happening though. Interested to play WarThunder Naval Battles
500 shells at 2.4s take 20 minutes to fire off. See the other "500" comments here and elsewhere.
It's basically a reverse Atlanta. Atlanta is a big dd in cruiser form, while Harugumo is basically a cruiser in dd form. GG wargaming... GG.....
So you can be easly fooled by Priority Target. Simply just the other DD press X turn a bit, and it'll give the same effect and you just start to turn, search those torps, and during the process pay less attention to the DD. :)
Is it ok if I get the concealment expert in my cap and trade the concealment module for the rudder module
Question on the build. Why not take the range increase upgrade over the rate of fire increase since the default rate of fire is blistering to begin with?
*Nerf the 1/4 pen to atleast 1/5 pen.*
*Also, the torpedo reload booster is not necessary IMHO, perhaps fit it int the same slot as smoke.*
Players: IJN Destroyers are too weak to be competitive.
WG: *Releases a new IJN DD line*
Players: This is not normal.
Its a Worcester with smoke, torps, and no citadel!?
Do you think the Kitakaze would be a better fit for tier 10? Even with minor tweaking.
Sorry Flamu I find you to be one of best TH-camrs and actually one of community contributors who doesn't try to make idiots of viewers but come one.
It's obvious ship at release will have better avg damage - most exp players only have it now mostly. I'm not saying it's not op - but we can't tell now just based on avg data.
Why you don't use the hp boost ( the captain skill)???
Opportunity cost. He can trade 3500 ship HP for +10% DPM across the duration of the game, and he has to estimate which of these resources will give a greater return across the game.
You have to wonder why the world's navies built BBs and CA/CL.
Getting close to 10k members on Discord.
Will be YUUGE giveaway there.
*Suddenly 15k members* ;)
Which Discord? The r/Wows "community" one is mis-managed by a couple of inappropriately-behaving and personal-agenda-seeking admins (Blob...Snow and Taiga aka Black).
Ive played against 3 today. They dominated the matches. Finished top in all 3. Broken as fuck.
I like this. People kept complaining about DD torpedoes so guess what now? You get burned the hell down. Careful what you complain about.
I noticed this CV weakness at the first day these new ones hit the live server. Striking Kitakaze even with Ranger torp planes is pretty easy. Its very very clumsy.
WG better not nerf this just as I unlock it ( currently playing Kita which already is much
lol iTs coming
Marvin Westmaas Honestly only nerf id care about is 1/5 pen instead of 1/4 atleast BB's have the HP but Moskva's with the 30mm deck... Well oof
Marvin Westmaas kinda sad 100mm guns pen twice as much as literally every other higher caliber ( on DD's)
If they nerf anything it should be concealment as the good concealment ( or well, the buffer distance... ) is what is supposed to prevent torpedo oriented DD's to be made obsolete by gunboats. In concealment build this thing is way to close to Shima considering the gunpower. Gunboat build concealment would be acceptable when used as stealth ship, it would also make sure no shitters on your team expect you to go contest caps against a Yugumo or something right at game start.
edit: if stats in two months are still to inflated then they can try and limit the dakadaka, but I don't think it's needed right away. And no that's not because I like playing OP ships, I think I played less then 10 games in Kita atm and I don't play enough to probably even unlock Haragumo in that time :)
I know it costs you a lot, most notibly AR, but i find getting RL helps a lot with avoiding torps. Also you really do need a little extra range in this ship, so if you're not going AFT, i really think you need the range mod over the reload mod.
This is fine
Seems balanced
How viable is the gun-boat build from the Akizuki through to the Haragumo? I'm intrigued by how much your build with Yamamoto Captain differs from Aki to this.
Could Harugumo be Conqueror's equalizer?
In every anticipated release of a new ship it always seems like they jump right to the top of the stats board and then the ship gets nerfed. Does anyone ever consider the players who are the first to spend all their free xp to play these ships when they go live? I figure the players that are first to jump in are usually the hardcore gamers that want to really try something new so of course the stats always look better. Over months those players will move on to other ships and the normal player base will come in and bring the ship stats back down to normal levels. This happens every time with a new release of a ship. For example, go look at the Worcester stats and I'm sure it will be up there at the top too.
what does the legendary mod for this one do? (if it even has one yet)
i hit a kitakaze once with torp as z46...my torp did only 6 k dmg...feels good man..and i stilll lost the gun fight cuz my torp were.....
why always more and more HE spam?!?
Why always moar and moar BBaby whine?
No really, do you WANT every ship to have Minotaur AP ( buffed a bit ofc, since you need to offset the DoT capabilities you're lacking with AP only )?
:Wargaming:
Because WG's playerbase is clueless and rely fires to do the damage for them.
How did WG think this was ok?
Hey Flamu, I am currently using the kitakaze not yet the haregumo. My setup is a little different. I use gun fire mod 2 in the last slot (for extra range) and then use concealment instead of AFT so you can get both a stealth as well as a gunboat build. Is something like this viable on the haregumo?? ( still 172000xp to go for me i am afraid)
Japanese khaba!, both are OP
nice thank you for the info
im playing gunbuild aki at the moment and a mino tryed rushing my smoke he was convinced im hacking :)
Flamu do u think any of the other dds will need to be buffed to counter or do u think the harugumo is fine where it is
So what is your counter to it? I assume the only real counter is for it to be radared and then focused. I had success in a game in a z-52 where I smoked up and hydroed him and wrecked him with AP.
I have had several games with this Harugumo on the enemy team. We could do literally nothing about it despite knowing we had to kill it and trying as a team to focus and counter it the entire game. There is almost no counter to it that I have found in game yet. Sure its clumsy....but so what...it dosen't need to go anywhere. The enemy flees before it....