This video is getting a lot of comments, so I apologize that I’m not able to keep up with all of them. However, I want to kind of reiterate why I did the test the way I did. This was not meant to be a one to one comparison, modern compound technology is obviously superior, however, the purpose, for this was to dispel the notion a lot of people were saying the comments on how a compound would outperform a heavy warbow in the armor tests I have been doing. These are different tools for different tasks, one is meant for armored troops, the other for unarmored game and ultimate precision. Each is better at their own specific task
I'm new to archery. Using a compound with pointed target tips on the arrows. It is a 65lb bow that measures at about 62lb right now. When I fail to hit the target, and instead I hit the wood frame around the target, the arrows go in so deep into the wood that I've broken a few trying to get them out. Some pointed target heads on those modern arrows would probably act a little more like the bodkin tips. The broadheads are for meat targets.
That went pretty much exactly how I expected. A war bow is a war bow for a reason. They’re engineered specifically to shoot a very heavy arrow pretty quickly and deliver maximum energy potential to pierce armor and incapacitate enemies. A modern compound bow is engineered to be easy to hold at full pull to accurately deliver a lightweight arrow very quickly and create a large cutting wound into game. Awesome video!
Using a modern broadhead was frankly slightly unfair. Even a bulletpoint would have made it a better comparison. Wouldn’t have changed the results significantly. A silly 100+# compound with stainless steel weave arrows with a bodkin point (there should be some available) would be a more comparable result, but even then it’s more about than accuracy than anything else.
Eye, compound bows are usually used with pretty light arrows, which is the reason it failed here. If shot with the same war arrows, then the results could have been different. Overall any bow transfers more energy with a heavier arrow than a light one, and compound bow has superior force draw curve, so it would be superior with heavy arrows too, even if it's not what it is usually used, but it would be very good with them. Btw. I am not a fan of modern archery gear, quite the contrary, so I am not biased towards the compound bow. I bet that even with that lighter draw weight, with heavy war arrows, the compound would outperform the old style warbows (the "horse bow" includes in the warbows), but maybe, just maybe a Manchu bow could outperform a compound bow, or at least come close, after all Manchu bow has the highest energy output of any traditional bow.
@@jkre true to a point. You gotta remember that the weight of the projectile is only part of the equation. The heavier the arrow gets, the more energy is required to throw it down range. Every projectile weapon has a sweet spot between speed and mass to deliver the most damage. A 1500gr arrow out of a modern compound hunting bow wouldn’t be traveling anywhere near the velocity it’s delivered from a war bow, and its energy down range would suffer as a result. The compound bow just isn’t made for that kind of projectile.
@@Indarow true, 1500 grains would be too heavy, but 1000 grains for that 65 lbs compound maybe not so. You need 3 things that are needed from the bow to be good with heavy arrows, draw length, draw weight and a good draw force curve. Draw length it has enough, draw weight is on the lower side for war arrows but the force draw curve is better than any traditional bow
I was really looking forward to this test. I’ll admit, I wasn’t sure how the shield test would turn out. I "thought" the MR bow would perform best, as it combines the power and specialised arrow types for the job, but I expected the compound bow with broadheads to do a bit better against wood, since it’s not an extremely hard surface (in comparison to metal). However, I wasn’t surprised by the results against metal armor. While those blades are deadly against flesh, they fold easily against harder surfaces, as they aren’t optimized for that kind of target. Arrowheads-and even arrow weight-make a big difference when it comes to armor. Thanks for the test, Dash. I loved this one! It really puts into perspective how bows and arrowheads are optimized for different tasks.
Thanks man!! Yeah it was a blast to make and the wood did surprise me for sure. I would imagine a double bladed broad head or even some kind of “modern bondkin” would perform better, but since there is not much armored game wandering around I would imagine that’s a niche market
@@dashrendar5320 There are some thick skinned stuff in Africa most hunters use large cartridge guns but maybe there is something people have made for hunting with bows. I think there is an arrow designed for hunting turtles that might work. Wish I knew more.
@@dashrendar5320 I think the only way you would get a major difference would be with some version of a field tip on a heavier aluminum shaft. was defiantly interesting to see what results you got from the tests, and the shield surprised me with the results for the compound bow because I was expecting the tips to do far worse.
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes I am having a ton of fun making it. It’s much more of an effort, but I think trying to have some humor and stretching it out a little more makes it way more fun for me to film.
I don't think it's that a modern compound bow is "worse" than the older bows. I think it's the arrows. Modern hunting arrows just aren't up to challenge. They dont have the weight, the arrowheads are optimized for hunting (not armor), and structurally, they just don't have what it takes to stand up against such hard targets. I'm sure with modern technology and materials you could make modern 'war arrows' and do just as well ye olde war arrows, there's just no reason to make them today. A good test all around, and if you were using them against unarmored targets (like Rambro) a modern compound bow and arrows would excell. You'd basically be hunting game at that point. Just a slightly more unusual game....
Compunds have better efficiency in staoring and transfering the energy to the arrow but here He's comparing a 65# compound against warbow with x2 that poundage.
@Buran01 Yep. The trad bows had almost double the draw weight as the modern compound bow, so it's no surprise they outperformed the modern compound bow. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying three factors of powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Both trad and modern bows have similar powerstrokes. However, the trad bow has much higher drawweight while the compound bow has higher efficency.
I used carbon arrows in begining when shooting 90lbs compound bow. Later my friend gave me arrows from metal. Steel for ship construction. I penetrated 1.8mm armor plate. While heavy they had custom diamond shaped head. I have only 5 because they cost more than 30 carbon arrows.
This was really cool to see. Gonna subscribe. I've seen some of your videos come up here and there, but I definitely want to see more of these modern vs ancient weapons tech.
The issue is powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying all three. Modern crossbows have lower draw weight but much better powerstroke and efficency. Different cultures also used crossbows that had these factors in different ratios. European crossbows for example often had higher draw weight but low powerstroke and low efficency (for the steel prod ones). East Asian (eg. Chinese) crossbows had high powerstroke and higher efficency but more moderate draw weights. A 1400s AD European crossbow with a steel prod for example might have 1000 lb draw weight, 6 inch powerstroke, and 40% efficency. A 1200s AD Song Dynasty crossbow with a composite recurve prod might have a 400 lb draw weight, 14 inch powerstroke, and 70% efficency. Of course, there are variations as some European crossbows were made with composite organic prods with higher efficency and some East Asian crossbows also had huge draw weights into the 1000 lbs for infantry versions.
Plus building a carbon arrow up 700 grains. Or plus they have a cone insert that could act like a booking point. Lol most powerful like joe Roger's hoyt or bowmer bowman
I work at tenpoint crossbow technologies and the fastest highest power crossbow is made by us ,it is abnormally expensive, like 5500 us dollars expensive. But trx 515 is cool as all get out.
I also saw it here on TH-cam, a fair test using a riot police shield. The test subjects used were a long bow, a recurve, and a compound bow. The arrows used were approximately the same weight. DL, I believe it was 29" and DW was 70 LB. The distance was 20 yrd. They used various arrowheads. The compound bow had the long bow and the recurve beat using an arrowhead that looked like a field point. The modern bow out performed the traditional bows. I have been using compound bows since the late 70s for 3-D competitions and for hunting. But on occasions, I'll shoot a 3-D event using my traditional equipment. I don't want to forget my roots.
Yes in a 1 to 1 it will outperform. However many people though a compound bow could outperform the very heavy draw weight bows I use. So it was more about showing the actual difference in power between a heavy warbow and a compound bow
I saw that one too. If I remember correctly, a blunt small game tip blasted right through the shield. A blunt, thin rod penetrates composite material pretty easily, that’s why armor piercing rounds have a steel rod in them. I wonder if it’s similar with wood, field tips seem to penetrate plywood pretty easily but broadheads just break.
It's all about purpose. The compound bow is probably better for hunting unarmored deer, as it's likely more consistently accurate at greater ranges and doesn't require nearly as much effort to draw. I mean, there's a reason they use them in Olympic and other competitions instead of war bows, though I'm sure there are competitions specifically for those as well.
I do agree, but its fun to see it tested and as always the caveat of define 'better' as its really not a universal thing. Your modern composite bow and arrows do have advantages in how they shoot no doubt about it, but if you do manage to damage the arrow etc out in the middle of nowhere you'd need to find a weirdo living out there with a real workshop to fix it... So if your bow hunting more for the sport, or the excuse to walk around in the forest than the pot it is not the end of the world to come home and have to wait for the mailman to bring you the replacement parts, but if the food value is genuinely important to you the more natural materials of the traditional bow and arrow is something you can plausibly work on with only the materials you can gather from the woods.
It would be interesting to see how the compound would perform in your tests using field tips. Broadheads do create more friction when attempting to pass through inanimate materials.
That was my idea as well when I saw the shots t the shield. The broadhead is not designed to get through armor, wild animals normally do not wear body armor. :) Against the wooden shield I think a field point would have punched through, I burried arrows quite far in wooden frames and trees when missing a target. The metal armor would just have flattened most fieldtips as they are not hardened. Again they are not designed to penetrate armor just soft foam targets. I know that in competition some people shoot tungsten field points, would be interesting how they fare, as I only know them as penetrator core for AP shells. But still it was fun to see, so keep it up.
Loved the funny intro. The arrow test was a bit skewed due to using hunting broadheads with the compound bow rather than bodkin tips like the others, but otherwise great 👍
Thank you, my friend. Glad you enjoyed that. Yes it’s hard to find tips that would work well for compound bows against armor. They’re just are not designed to do that so it really is different tools for different tasks but a lot of people felt like just a standard compound bow and broad heads would outperform so I just wanted to show the base test
The trade bows had almost double the draw weight as the modern compound bow, so it's no surprise they outperformed the modern compound bow. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying three factors of powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Both trad and modern bows have similar powerstrokes. However, the trad bow has much higher drawweight while the compound bow has higher efficency.
Horsebow for the win 🤘🏿🤙🏿🏹 Honestly this may be your best npc interaction. You've definitely got a better handle on the horsebow. Absolutely killing it. Keep up the amazing work, hoss cat.
Thanks so much man. I am having so much fun and yeah I feel like I’m starting to get a better and smoother draw with it. Still want to get another 2 inches but getting close I would like to get to 30ish
@dashrendar5320 That's one of my favorite things about my horsebows. The ability it gives you to overdraw to 32". I'm curious, what poundage are you pulling on the horsebow at 30"? Also, where did you get that bow. Few manufacturers make horsebows at that high of draw weight.
Compound basically failed because of too light arrows with the wrong kind of arrow heads. And "horse bows" are designed for a reason, and it's not riding horses, range and power are, after all "horse bows" predate horse back archery.
Yes, indeed. Different bows for different purposes 100%. I think a lot of people think that just cause the compound can shoot faster and is newer. It will outperform but it’s just not made for that.
Yeah, I have looked into those. I think the one I have seen that’s like 100 pounds is 1100 bucks. So maybe if I get a video that does super well one day I can justify that price tag. The TH-cam money is the fun money 😁
Those are fleshy arrow heads for the compound bow. I would have done a needle point bodkin type for that test to be honest. There are similar arrow heads for penetration testing. @amazon has those.
Man it might be possible but it would have to be a much stronger compound bow. As the arrows are like triple the weight of what most modern compound bows shoot…
@dashrendar5320 it might be worth looking into. Just as with the invention of the recurve bow changing how the mobility of ancient bows, because the limbs of bow are curved forward, the invention of compound bows being able to put out more power per pound of draw weight, it would be nice to see if the ancient war arrows would fire faster and stronger if a compound bow could fire them. The problem with the modern arrows is that they aren't made for hard targets. no matter how hard and fast they are shot, if they can't survive the shot, they are worthless against hard surfaces.
@@dashrendar5320I have some broad heads and arrows that are over 1000 grains that I shoot out of a 65lb compound bow, they fly just fine. The arrows are nye impossible to break too. I’m almost certain “Bishop Archery” would be happy to have you test one of his arrows and heads. He’s an awesome gentleman who makes everything on his own in a small shop. Phenomenal engineer too. (I’d add a link to his website, but it won’t post on youtube) As a side note, I enjoy my horse bow the most, but can’t beat my compound and Bishop Arrows in the hunt. Please reach out to Bishop Archery!
The lesson Ishi taught the Anthropologist as laughed and laughed at them. They kept asking him why he does not target shoot & practice. He taught them how to make the bows and the arrows. Then watched them as they lined up to target shoot.
Compound bow poundage is game changer too. It was good to test it at common poundage vs heavy armor and shields. I do wonder if a higher poundage would work better or if that compound system is dropping hitting power with the cams. As for Warbows out doing Compounds it makes sense. the Cams vs strings looks to be a difference.
Hey dash i love your videos. You helped get me into archery. Watching your videos as well as clay hayes and hunt primitive has really taught me a-lot and helped me get started. I was curious, i know you have made arrows would you try and maybe make a bow like clay hayes?
Thank you so much my friend. I am glad you enjoy the videos. Man that would be very cool to try and make a proper bow myself but it just makes me nervous haha
@@dashrendar5320 i completely understand that. It made me nervous at first to ive made a few and so far only had one snap and it was because i let my friend shoot it and he overdrew the hell out of it and it blew up. Can be kinda scary
@dashrendar5320 that's almost exactly what my modern arrows do whenever they hit wood. The tips disappear into the shafts and the aluminium either bulges or peels back.
Only critique, mind you it's really mainly to give a comment for the algorithm, is the heads for the compound bow, I wouldn't think our ideal for heart surface penetration... But this really was for the algorithm. Excellent video)
Thank you so much. Yes I went into the archery store and talk to them about what I was trying to do and these were some of the tougher ones but as I am sure you can imagine armor piercing arrows for compound bows are in short supply 😂 I want to try and create some work of custom bodkin or needle point at some time
@@dashrendar5320 Standard screw--in target heads would be a much more reasonable match for old style bodkin heads. They are more like bullet points that you screw and glue into the inserts of modern shafts. Asking modern broadheads to penetrate armour when they are designed with "hollow" blades means that you basically invalidated your results before you even started. Anyone can tell you that arrows NOT intended for penetrating armour, but are instead made to be as light as practical while maintaining a cutting edge are more than likely to fail by crumpling or bending when put to such a test.
My experience with shooting mostly carbons shaft arrows from horsebows right next to people that shoot carbon shaft arrows from modern recurves and compounds is this: 1) Arrow heads, some shapes just penetrate backstop nets and wood target frames much better than others (I know this from a friend I definitely dont miss the target sometimes), of all the modern target arrowheads I have shot the tophead 3D arrowheads got the most penetration (at least vs kevlar backstop net), they are like budget bodkins I had to stop using them because my arrows were hitting concrete wall right behind the net. 2) Arrowhead / arrow shaft thickness, one of the main advantages of modern bows is that they can shoot arrows at lower gpp (light arrows) at high speeds which means the arrows can get really slim, which means they need to defeat less material to penetrate same depth than much thicker arrowheads and arrow shafts. Basic target point that is same thickness as the shaft would probably do better than that broadhead vs hard surface like wood and metal. 3) Compound bows in my experience can achieve more kinetic energy at same draw length and draw weight when compared to olympic bow or laminated horsebow, however it is in ballpark of 20% or so. So if you can do 60 joules with 60 pound horsebow, you probably can do around 70-75 with compound. However compound will be able to achieve this even at 5-6 gpp while with horsebow you generally want 7-10 and probably more with longbow. Also to my understanding it is easier to pull and hold same draw weight with compound when compared to real manly bows. You can get away with very poor form with compound and still shoot relatively high draw weigh without injury, alternatively someone like you could probably pull 180-200 pound compound bow.
I think this is more a commentary on modern arrows vs war arrows, as the mass difference between them is the difference I believe. The bows themselves are simply there to provide acceleration to the arrows. Still a good video
Who won? We did. Thanks for the laughs. :) I don't think compound bow fans are gonna stop until they are proven right. I think a better comparison would be which more sustainable and practical for everyday use in, say, a zombie apocalypse type scenario. Anyways, I'm a fan of the classics too, and like Rambro once said in Spy Kids 3 'nothing beats good old blunt force trauma'... 🤭
So glad you had some laughs my friend! I think I enjoy the “skits” as much as anything, Which actually take like 3 times as long to film as the actual tests 😂
Amazing tests, lots of fun. And the results are pretty much expected when stopping to think about them for a moment. The compound arrows are just not at all designed or fit for hitting a hard target like armour. As soon as we saw that arrow crumple in on itself against the shield, we see the factor limiting penetration isn't the power of the bow but the shape of the tip and structure of the arrow as it's spending a bunch of energy deforming rather than penetrating. I would love to see tests with the same or similar compound bow, but with arrows better designed for a hard target (slimmer head profile and stronger shaft so they don't just break). Obviously modern bodkin arrows aren't really a thing the archery shop will sell, but it would give a much more fair comparison between the bows specifically.
Thanks so much, it was super fun to do as well. But yeah, I even went into the archery shop near me and explained what I was going to do. It was kind of an awkward conversation haha. He gave me the best stuff you thought could work, but it’s just not something that’s thought about, most big game does not wear armor 😂
Ha ha brilliant, Dash mate weight is weight, the heavier the more power, nature. You cannot get blood out of a stone. Great vid loved it, and don't be modest about your archery skill, we all can see how sodding good you are with a heavy bow. You could always invite yer man from England who built your bow, bet you both could have some fun together that we the audience would lap up.😊
I have actually done a few videos with that in the past. It’s been a while since I took it out, but I do have one. They are super cool. Also glad to have you my friend.
Thank you for that. Yes they very well. May have. I was not sure I went to the archery store and the guy said these were probably my best bet. I’m not familiar with the modern types.
You need to tune the compound-bow and find out which arrow flies best with your configuration, FIRST... also the broadheads nowadays outperform old ones by far..
Well fck Rambo, Rambro join the fight. Also what I see so far commercial compound designed for hunting not for armor unless its a custom compund. Great testing.
Hahah yes that’s basically the point I was trying to make. They are two different tools for two different functions. A lot of people seem to think there was overlap and that a compound bowed out perform, and it is faster and better for hunting game. It’s really not made to punch into armor.
A better question is how the compound bow would perform with war arrows? I wouldn't expect it to out perform a war bow as they are designed for different purposes.
be interesting to see the compound bow again but with solid single blade broadhead. Or if there's a way to attach a bodkin tip to the modern shaft that would be very cool!
Yeah, I was actually trying to figure out a way to fix a bodkin tip to the arrows. I think I can Jimmy rig something up, but I didn’t have the time to complete it so maybe in the future test I can customize it more.
@@dashrendar5320 that would be rad. I'd be curious though too see if doing that replacement reveals another weakness in the modern shaft. does the carbon fiber have the same strength as the solid wooden? or with a hard enough impact would they be more prone to shattering? Only one way to find out hahaha!
Honestly, I think the best tips you could use on modern arrows are target tips. Since those are just a sharp point similar to bodkin arrows? (Not that familiar with older style arrows). Primarily because they dont have the huge sharp blades designed for cutting unarmored flesh like a broadhead you were using here. Not that I think using that tip would make a modern bow of that poundage beat out an actual war bow, but it would have given a much better showing IMO.
It’s true I was looking jimmy rig some sort of needle or bodkin tip. But I’ve actually reached out to quite a few modern specialists to see if I could use an actual super modern high-powered bow with Better arrows. I still don’t think the mass will be there in the arrows, but I think it can do much better than just with the standard set up. I have.
One thing i always assumed was that compound bow technology was more efficient compared to traditional bows and recurve bows. And that would mean the force graph multiplied with the powerstroke(draw distance) as the input energy and the output energy being the kinetic energy of the arrow. But now that i think about it, its not so obvious how the gears and cams increase the efficiency when it should actually be the limb material and the tuning of the arrow to the bow that matters in the equation. If there's any professional/expert who sees this maybe they could explain it to me. One positive for the compound vow is obviously for the faster velocity ceilings you can achieve with the mechanical advantage. Im not blind to that. Fast arrows have less drop which works great for precision shooting. the draw weight let-off is great for holding it drawn longer, and the trigger tools help decrease some human randomness at the moment of release.
I answered a bit in another comment (sort by newest).. yes, the materials make up for quite a bit (especially for the arrows and their precision) and gears and cams indeed increase the efficiency of the energy transfer to the arrow (different cams lead to different drawcycles lead to different speeds).. Your thinking is pretty much on point - I would have loved a better comparison, there is one dude in the comments who set some things straight and who had a solution with calculating the kinetic energy with a chronograph and a scale... there is a Danish archer (or Sweden?) who makes trickshots videos, shooting arrows through keyholes and stuff, and he has quite a big channel. In one of his newer videos he tests the penetration on a knight's chest armor replica and how to shoot fast with a compound bow.
a looked a few things up and there are a few things to be found about people calculating the kinetic energy of warbows.. there sure will also be some people doing the same for compound bows and then there are calculators for them...
Normally arrows would be made during "down times " which referred periods of time and which you can't go outside. such as during the winter months when you're stuck indoors in situation like that or when there's storms and you can't go outside.
What tips? Looks like armor piercing for the war bows and broad heads for the compound. A spike would be more comparable. If i am wrong about your points then awesome video.
It is not my expertise for sure. When I went into the archery shop and explained what I was trying to do they said these were kind of the hardest strongest ones they had some sort of needle tip would be much better, but that would have to be custom
I mean, razor broadheads are meant for piercing flesh, not wood or steel. For any kind of comparison you should have used either game hunting heads on the old bows or used target arrows which at least semi-replicate bodkin points.
This was a first attempt and fore into modern vows, I just went to the archery shop and explained what I was trying to do and they said those were the toughest ones they had so obviously refinement is needed and a more powerful compound, but this was just a “basic” hunting setup for sure
Those heavy arrows have a lot more momentum. Speed will increase kinetic energy exponentially (mass× velocity squared). Thats being absorbed into the hard metal surface and dispersed.
Great video! I agree with the other comments saying that the compound bow's lighter arrows and different arrowhead are likely the main contributing factor for performing so significantly lower than the historical bows. That horse bow is insane, where did you get that! I'm looking at more recurve style bows (I have the basic like takedown one from any store lol). Thanks!
Yeah, that is a massive difference for sure but modern bows don’t really have much in the way of needle or bodkin points. There is just not a lot of demand against armored deer 😂😂 glad you enjoyed it
Yeah, I actually have three steel arrows and I was trying to figure a way how to fix a more solid tip onto them. Because I think the field points often times are just too light so I wanted something a little more mass but that would throw off the compoundtrajectory and weight. So I really need to customize something I think.
Great video, and about as expected against armor. I am curious about Rate of Fire and Accuracy tests. Would a modern bow be better for shooting at weaker or unarmored points accurately, and could you get more shoots off much faster?
Accuracy wise 100% it’s much much easier to pull up a specific point with that kind of bow. Though I would say it’s quite a bit slower to load and loose a arrow.
you could be faster with the right rest and release handle, especially with a compound bow magazin construction, and you will be way less tired, have less body damage, even with the same poundage because with a compound you only pull the weight once and then you'll have a letoff (only having to hold a small percentage of the poundage while aiming, 75-90% is standard).. a compound bow is just way more effective when it comes to what you put in and what you get out - even more so over time because of the materials that are being used...
Indeed. I think the people I was mainly making the video for based on the comments made tended to think that the compound would beat the warbows in anything. This was just showing they are both for very different purposes
Thank you so much! So glad you Enjoyed the intro. This one is much larger than the Mongolian bows. Those ones were closer to 40 inches and this one is 54 I think
I agree with everything I’d just be curious to see a comparison with your bows and a new compound against a ballistics manikin or something to emulate a deer, it would be cool to see some of the old school hunting tips vs the new school beings the newer stuff didn’t have armor in mind when they were developed like the older stuff did
A bit ridiculous when bodkins are made to penetrate while broadheads are made to cut. A test with similar style heads sized to the shaft would be interesting.
Seeing the results of Misko's work on that horsebow I can safely say I will eventually upgrade from my #55 Tiron to a #80 Tiron or Despot from him when I have the strength. Best bowyer in the world fight me Joe Gibs. (j/k I love them both)
100% agree. That was really the point of this a lot of people thought that the modern ones would out perform even the heavy warbows and they are faster in speed and more accurate but It’s a completely different function. Apples to oranges ones for armor ones for unarmored game
Arrows? I think you put the issue to rest, but I'd be curious to what happens if you shoot one of the heavy arrows with the compound bow (and vice-verse?). 😁 Great vid! Thanks!
Haha if the bow was mine I would try it but it’s not mine and I feel like if I tried to push out one of those massive arrows it would not be health for the compound bow
Heavier and more impact resistant arrows will be key for a modern compound bow against armor, or sturdier targets in general. A fast, but light arrow will only shatter on impact out of a more powerful bow. Arrows must be built like tanks. Just like their ancient counterparts. High quality carbon, long steel insert and outset, carbon inner tube and narrow solid broad heads are necessary to beat the war bow in its own field.
As expected really, but nice to see it tested. Though I am curious how the composite arrow shafts sometimes used would fare from the modern bow - the nature of CF/Fibreglass is to not break or even deform very much till it fails rather explosively, so it might just do a little better than the thin wall metal tube arrows against armour if the impact is below that explosive range. Still going to be a light arrow, so not expecting vast difference but it would be interesting to see.
This was more a comparison of wooden arrows vs. carbon arrows than compound vs. warbow. As todd has shown, a middle-class crossbow throws the same wooden arrow as fast as a heavy longbow.
I have a PSE fang crossbow the draw weight is 200 pounds, I have to use a winch to cock it the arrows have a bullet head tip for practice even so I don't think it would be able to do anything better than the traditional ones against armer, same thing with my PSE decree compound bow 60 pounds draw
I think if you used a compound with a 30” draw and 80lb limbs and an arrow about as heavy around 1000-1600 grains with a single bevel two blade broadhead, the results would be vastly different.
Interesting tests. Being a recurve bowman for over 60 years (yeah, I'm old) I obviously lean to favor your horse bow. But in the late 80's a bow hunting guitarist buddy of mine introduced me to the compound. It felt really odd to shoot. Very unnatural. Got pretty good with it, but I seldom take it out of the case. I did shoot it like a recurve using fingers, canted, and no sights. I keep the compound as it was a gift from a friend, and a signature model that is no longer available. 😏
i did some testing with modern arrows against shields and a standart 6mm arrow with a fielt tip penetrates the best against the wood i had .... i have to say i used plywood with textile and epoxi in my test not historical at all but these where my resoults
This video is getting a lot of comments, so I apologize that I’m not able to keep up with all of them. However, I want to kind of reiterate why I did the test the way I did. This was not meant to be a one to one comparison, modern compound technology is obviously superior, however, the purpose, for this was to dispel the notion a lot of people were saying the comments on how a compound would outperform a heavy warbow in the armor tests I have been doing. These are different tools for different tasks, one is meant for armored troops, the other for unarmored game and ultimate precision. Each is better at their own specific task
And that's after TH-cam auto deletes half the comments like it did mine.
(I called you a dirty boy for touching that abomination of archery)
Hell yeah a new Dash Rendar video and a new character. My day is blessed now!
You being here blesses my day 💪 great new video by the way. Brutal…
@@dashrendar5320you answered an old question in my mind. Are modern bows stronger?
I didn't expect to see the knight and the ranger in one party, but here we are.
Just need a mage now.
@@Ashireiko_Tatsumi 😅😅😅
@@dequitem Don't forget to crank up that Compound to 70lbs now! I would really love to see those ballistic results!
Thanks for using my name idea for the new character. I'm honored.
Most welcome my friend! 💪🏹
Awesome video.
Patiently awaiting your Space Marine character testing a railgun.
Hahaha thanks man…one day I will get a space marine video together haha
I'm new to archery. Using a compound with pointed target tips on the arrows. It is a 65lb bow that measures at about 62lb right now.
When I fail to hit the target, and instead I hit the wood frame around the target, the arrows go in so deep into the wood that I've broken a few trying to get them out.
Some pointed target heads on those modern arrows would probably act a little more like the bodkin tips. The broadheads are for meat targets.
That went pretty much exactly how I expected.
A war bow is a war bow for a reason. They’re engineered specifically to shoot a very heavy arrow pretty quickly and deliver maximum energy potential to pierce armor and incapacitate enemies.
A modern compound bow is engineered to be easy to hold at full pull to accurately deliver a lightweight arrow very quickly and create a large cutting wound into game.
Awesome video!
100% different tools for different jobs.
Using a modern broadhead was frankly slightly unfair. Even a bulletpoint would have made it a better comparison.
Wouldn’t have changed the results significantly.
A silly 100+# compound with stainless steel weave arrows with a bodkin point (there should be some available) would be a more comparable result, but even then it’s more about than accuracy than anything else.
Eye, compound bows are usually used with pretty light arrows, which is the reason it failed here. If shot with the same war arrows, then the results could have been different. Overall any bow transfers more energy with a heavier arrow than a light one, and compound bow has superior force draw curve, so it would be superior with heavy arrows too, even if it's not what it is usually used, but it would be very good with them.
Btw. I am not a fan of modern archery gear, quite the contrary, so I am not biased towards the compound bow. I bet that even with that lighter draw weight, with heavy war arrows, the compound would outperform the old style warbows (the "horse bow" includes in the warbows), but maybe, just maybe a Manchu bow could outperform a compound bow, or at least come close, after all Manchu bow has the highest energy output of any traditional bow.
@@jkre true to a point.
You gotta remember that the weight of the projectile is only part of the equation. The heavier the arrow gets, the more energy is required to throw it down range. Every projectile weapon has a sweet spot between speed and mass to deliver the most damage.
A 1500gr arrow out of a modern compound hunting bow wouldn’t be traveling anywhere near the velocity it’s delivered from a war bow, and its energy down range would suffer as a result.
The compound bow just isn’t made for that kind of projectile.
@@Indarow true, 1500 grains would be too heavy, but 1000 grains for that 65 lbs compound maybe not so. You need 3 things that are needed from the bow to be good with heavy arrows, draw length, draw weight and a good draw force curve. Draw length it has enough, draw weight is on the lower side for war arrows but the force draw curve is better than any traditional bow
I was really looking forward to this test. I’ll admit, I wasn’t sure how the shield test would turn out.
I "thought" the MR bow would perform best, as it combines the power and specialised arrow types for the job, but I expected the compound bow with broadheads to do a bit better against wood, since it’s not an extremely hard surface (in comparison to metal).
However, I wasn’t surprised by the results against metal armor. While those blades are deadly against flesh, they fold easily against harder surfaces, as they aren’t optimized for that kind of target. Arrowheads-and even arrow weight-make a big difference when it comes to armor.
Thanks for the test, Dash. I loved this one!
It really puts into perspective how bows and arrowheads are optimized for different tasks.
Thanks man!! Yeah it was a blast to make and the wood did surprise me for sure. I would imagine a double bladed broad head or even some kind of “modern bondkin” would perform better, but since there is not much armored game wandering around I would imagine that’s a niche market
@@dashrendar5320 There are some thick skinned stuff in Africa most hunters use large cartridge guns but maybe there is something people have made for hunting with bows. I think there is an arrow designed for hunting turtles that might work. Wish I knew more.
@@dashrendar5320 I think the only way you would get a major difference would be with some version of a field tip on a heavier aluminum shaft. was defiantly interesting to see what results you got from the tests, and the shield surprised me with the results for the compound bow because I was expecting the tips to do far worse.
Very interesting video you shared with us today. Astonishing results. And I love the new RamBro! Had so much fun looking this. Thanks Dash! 🍻
Thanks so much! So glad you had fun with it, always a great pleasure to make some fun videos
Great video! love the side by side testing. hope you're still having fun making long form content cause we love watching it
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes I am having a ton of fun making it. It’s much more of an effort, but I think trying to have some humor and stretching it out a little more makes it way more fun for me to film.
If it wasn't for copyright reasons, I'd have said play Rambo's theme song everytime the camera pans to RamBro 😂
Man I wish I could do that 😂😂
@@General_Kenobi_212 a Rambo or Arnie character would be 😂
I don't think it's that a modern compound bow is "worse" than the older bows.
I think it's the arrows. Modern hunting arrows just aren't up to challenge. They dont have the weight, the arrowheads are optimized for hunting (not armor), and structurally, they just don't have what it takes to stand up against such hard targets.
I'm sure with modern technology and materials you could make modern 'war arrows' and do just as well ye olde war arrows, there's just no reason to make them today.
A good test all around, and if you were using them against unarmored targets (like Rambro) a modern compound bow and arrows would excell. You'd basically be hunting game at that point. Just a slightly more unusual game....
Compunds have better efficiency in staoring and transfering the energy to the arrow but here He's comparing a 65# compound against warbow with x2 that poundage.
@Buran01 Yep. The trad bows had almost double the draw weight as the modern compound bow, so it's no surprise they outperformed the modern compound bow. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying three factors of powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Both trad and modern bows have similar powerstrokes. However, the trad bow has much higher drawweight while the compound bow has higher efficency.
I used carbon arrows in begining when shooting 90lbs compound bow. Later my friend gave me arrows from metal. Steel for ship construction. I penetrated 1.8mm armor plate. While heavy they had custom diamond shaped head. I have only 5 because they cost more than 30 carbon arrows.
Apa makes a 100lb compound that shoots like 800 grain arrows it will penetrate,65 just isn't quite enough for armor.
These skits just keep getting funnier and funnier. Also no suprise RamBro couldnt go as deep as he thought
😂😂😂 glad you enjoy them. Even got my wife to laugh at this one finally 😁
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Well, you are just a big kid,aren't you! But that's what makes your videos fun! Thanks again for the info and the laughs! Love the new character.
Yes, I want hundred percent in just a big kid. So glad you enjoy the fun. They are a blast to make.
This was really cool to see. Gonna subscribe. I've seen some of your videos come up here and there, but I definitely want to see more of these modern vs ancient weapons tech.
most powerful medieval crossbow vs most powerful modern crossbow
Haha if only I had the budget
The issue is powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying all three. Modern crossbows have lower draw weight but much better powerstroke and efficency. Different cultures also used crossbows that had these factors in different ratios. European crossbows for example often had higher draw weight but low powerstroke and low efficency (for the steel prod ones). East Asian (eg. Chinese) crossbows had high powerstroke and higher efficency but more moderate draw weights. A 1400s AD European crossbow with a steel prod for example might have 1000 lb draw weight, 6 inch powerstroke, and 40% efficency. A 1200s AD Song Dynasty crossbow with a composite recurve prod might have a 400 lb draw weight, 14 inch powerstroke, and 70% efficency. Of course, there are variations as some European crossbows were made with composite organic prods with higher efficency and some East Asian crossbows also had huge draw weights into the 1000 lbs for infantry versions.
Check out Tods workshop. Pretty sure he's done this.
Plus building a carbon arrow up 700 grains. Or plus they have a cone insert that could act like a booking point.
Lol most powerful like joe Roger's hoyt or bowmer bowman
I work at tenpoint crossbow technologies and the fastest highest power crossbow is made by us ,it is abnormally expensive, like 5500 us dollars expensive.
But trx 515 is cool as all get out.
I also saw it here on TH-cam, a fair test using a riot police shield. The test subjects used were a long bow, a recurve, and a compound bow. The arrows used were approximately the same weight. DL, I believe it was 29" and DW was 70 LB. The distance was 20 yrd. They used various arrowheads. The compound bow had the long bow and the recurve beat using an arrowhead that looked like a field point. The modern bow out performed the traditional bows. I have been using compound bows since the late 70s for 3-D competitions and for hunting. But on occasions, I'll shoot a 3-D event using my traditional equipment. I don't want to forget my roots.
Yes in a 1 to 1 it will outperform. However many people though a compound bow could outperform the very heavy draw weight bows I use. So it was more about showing the actual difference in power between a heavy warbow and a compound bow
I saw that one too. If I remember correctly, a blunt small game tip blasted right through the shield. A blunt, thin rod penetrates composite material pretty easily, that’s why armor piercing rounds have a steel rod in them. I wonder if it’s similar with wood, field tips seem to penetrate plywood pretty easily but broadheads just break.
@@dashrendar5320I wonder if they even make compound bows as heavy as the traditional ones you use.
It's all about purpose. The compound bow is probably better for hunting unarmored deer, as it's likely more consistently accurate at greater ranges and doesn't require nearly as much effort to draw. I mean, there's a reason they use them in Olympic and other competitions instead of war bows, though I'm sure there are competitions specifically for those as well.
Most assuredly! However everyone was asking to see the comparison and I was happy to oblige 😂
I do agree, but its fun to see it tested and as always the caveat of define 'better' as its really not a universal thing. Your modern composite bow and arrows do have advantages in how they shoot no doubt about it, but if you do manage to damage the arrow etc out in the middle of nowhere you'd need to find a weirdo living out there with a real workshop to fix it... So if your bow hunting more for the sport, or the excuse to walk around in the forest than the pot it is not the end of the world to come home and have to wait for the mailman to bring you the replacement parts, but if the food value is genuinely important to you the more natural materials of the traditional bow and arrow is something you can plausibly work on with only the materials you can gather from the woods.
It would be interesting to see how the compound would perform in your tests using field tips.
Broadheads do create more friction when attempting to pass through inanimate materials.
Yeah I gotta find a way to fashion “modern bodkin” tips or something similar to that
That was my idea as well when I saw the shots t the shield.
The broadhead is not designed to get through armor, wild animals normally do not wear body armor. :)
Against the wooden shield I think a field point would have punched through, I burried arrows quite far in wooden frames and trees when missing a target.
The metal armor would just have flattened most fieldtips as they are not hardened. Again they are not designed to penetrate armor just soft foam targets.
I know that in competition some people shoot tungsten field points, would be interesting how they fare, as I only know them as penetrator core for AP shells.
But still it was fun to see, so keep it up.
Use aluminium shafts too. Carbon does not like hard targets.
Do this test with proper arrows for the compound, if one would face armour you would rig for buffalo not deer.
Now this was a damn good video. Multiple bows from across time coming together for bragging rights. Cue the beast tone!!
Thank you my friend! Had a ton of fun just being a big kid
I just enjoy archery. Yourself and Armin heirmer are great to watch.
Loved the funny intro. The arrow test was a bit skewed due to using hunting broadheads with the compound bow rather than bodkin tips like the others, but otherwise great 👍
Thank you, my friend. Glad you enjoyed that. Yes it’s hard to find tips that would work well for compound bows against armor. They’re just are not designed to do that so it really is different tools for different tasks but a lot of people felt like just a standard compound bow and broad heads would outperform so I just wanted to show the base test
@@dashrendar5320 Field points are probably as close as you could get...
Incredibly gratified that the trad bows outperformed! I can't wait for a costume closet tour in like five years haha
Hahahaa all the outfits
The trade bows had almost double the draw weight as the modern compound bow, so it's no surprise they outperformed the modern compound bow. Crossbow and bow power is determined by multiplying three factors of powerstroke vs efficency vs draw weight. Both trad and modern bows have similar powerstrokes. However, the trad bow has much higher drawweight while the compound bow has higher efficency.
Horsebow for the win 🤘🏿🤙🏿🏹
Honestly this may be your best npc interaction. You've definitely got a better handle on the horsebow. Absolutely killing it. Keep up the amazing work, hoss cat.
Thanks so much man. I am having so much fun and yeah I feel like I’m starting to get a better and smoother draw with it. Still want to get another 2 inches but getting close I would like to get to 30ish
@dashrendar5320 That's one of my favorite things about my horsebows. The ability it gives you to overdraw to 32". I'm curious, what poundage are you pulling on the horsebow at 30"? Also, where did you get that bow. Few manufacturers make horsebows at that high of draw weight.
This was from MR bows at 30 it would be around 150lbs. So pretty close to the upper limit I can actually aim with 😂
Compound basically failed because of too light arrows with the wrong kind of arrow heads. And "horse bows" are designed for a reason, and it's not riding horses, range and power are, after all "horse bows" predate horse back archery.
Excellent! I've looked before for a compound vs trad bow video and you've finally done it.
Thankfully it went as I suspected 😬
Yes, indeed. Different bows for different purposes 100%. I think a lot of people think that just cause the compound can shoot faster and is newer. It will outperform but it’s just not made for that.
For a bit of a price tag you can get a 100lbs compound if you feel more comfortable with a heavier bow
Yeah, I have looked into those. I think the one I have seen that’s like 100 pounds is 1100 bucks. So maybe if I get a video that does super well one day I can justify that price tag. The TH-cam money is the fun money 😁
If you want powerfull compound find gorilla 120 lbs. I don't remember mark.
Those are fleshy arrow heads for the compound bow. I would have done a needle point bodkin type for that test to be honest. There are similar arrow heads for penetration testing. @amazon has those.
Arrow budget increases dramatically after this episode! Would be cool to see the compound bow launch some warbow arrows!
Haha I would try it but it’s not my Bow so I would be terrified to damage it
@@dashrendar5320 Thats fair enough dude!
Not sure how safe it would be either to be fair haha.
Keep up the awesome content brother!
Thank you my friend
Would love to see if war arrows fired through a modern bow would have any different results, if possible!
Man it might be possible but it would have to be a much stronger compound bow. As the arrows are like triple the weight of what most modern compound bows shoot…
@dashrendar5320 it might be worth looking into. Just as with the invention of the recurve bow changing how the mobility of ancient bows, because the limbs of bow are curved forward, the invention of compound bows being able to put out more power per pound of draw weight, it would be nice to see if the ancient war arrows would fire faster and stronger if a compound bow could fire them. The problem with the modern arrows is that they aren't made for hard targets. no matter how hard and fast they are shot, if they can't survive the shot, they are worthless against hard surfaces.
Very true. It would he a fun video to try for sure 💪🏹
@@dashrendar5320I have some broad heads and arrows that are over 1000 grains that I shoot out of a 65lb compound bow, they fly just fine. The arrows are nye impossible to break too. I’m almost certain “Bishop Archery” would be happy to have you test one of his arrows and heads. He’s an awesome gentleman who makes everything on his own in a small shop. Phenomenal engineer too. (I’d add a link to his website, but it won’t post on youtube)
As a side note, I enjoy my horse bow the most, but can’t beat my compound and Bishop Arrows in the hunt. Please reach out to Bishop Archery!
The lesson Ishi taught the Anthropologist as laughed and laughed at them. They kept asking him why he does not target shoot & practice. He taught them how to make the bows and the arrows. Then watched them as they lined up to target shoot.
Compound bow poundage is game changer too. It was good to test it at common poundage vs heavy armor and shields. I do wonder if a higher poundage would work better or if that compound system is dropping hitting power with the cams.
As for Warbows out doing Compounds it makes sense. the Cams vs strings looks to be a difference.
Hey dash i love your videos. You helped get me into archery. Watching your videos as well as clay hayes and hunt primitive has really taught me a-lot and helped me get started. I was curious, i know you have made arrows would you try and maybe make a bow like clay hayes?
Thank you so much my friend. I am glad you enjoy the videos. Man that would be very cool to try and make a proper bow myself but it just makes me nervous haha
@@dashrendar5320 i completely understand that. It made me nervous at first to ive made a few and so far only had one snap and it was because i let my friend shoot it and he overdrew the hell out of it and it blew up. Can be kinda scary
We need to get you that second camera!
Man I know! I hate having to do multiple cuts of the shots. It just does not look as good
Yesss dash never stop posting this is the best!!
Thank you so much glad you enjoyed it
arrowhead and arrow weight clearly are just as important factors in penetrations of hard targets as the bow itself.
Yea for sure, the mass of the arrow is really the defining difference (and the arrowheads of course)
I didn't expect the difference to be so drastic! I do however prefer Compound Bows visually; I just think they look awesome~!
Yeah I was only really surprised that it did so poorly against the wooden shield to be honest. The rest I was basically sure it would crumble haha
@@dashrendar5320 Haha, you are the expert, so makes sense
@dashrendar5320 that's almost exactly what my modern arrows do whenever they hit wood. The tips disappear into the shafts and the aluminium either bulges or peels back.
Only critique, mind you it's really mainly to give a comment for the algorithm, is the heads for the compound bow, I wouldn't think our ideal for heart surface penetration... But this really was for the algorithm. Excellent video)
Thank you so much. Yes I went into the archery store and talk to them about what I was trying to do and these were some of the tougher ones but as I am sure you can imagine armor piercing arrows for compound bows are in short supply 😂 I want to try and create some work of custom bodkin or needle point at some time
@@dashrendar5320 Standard screw--in target heads would be a much more reasonable match for old style bodkin heads. They are more like bullet points that you screw and glue into the inserts of modern shafts. Asking modern broadheads to penetrate armour when they are designed with "hollow" blades means that you basically invalidated your results before you even started. Anyone can tell you that arrows NOT intended for penetrating armour, but are instead made to be as light as practical while maintaining a cutting edge are more than likely to fail by crumpling or bending when put to such a test.
Rambro didn’t have his explosive tipped arrows
Haha yeah that would even out the playing field
Been waiting a long time to see this. Excellent.
Love the horse bow, but I would love to see how the compound bow does with the wooden arrows with proper weight.
I know it is amazing. I need to get some actual proper weighted arrows for it. It’s still throwing those massive Morville arrows right now.
“Warbow arrows”
@@dashrendar5320 yes
My experience with shooting mostly carbons shaft arrows from horsebows right next to people that shoot carbon shaft arrows from modern recurves and compounds is this:
1) Arrow heads, some shapes just penetrate backstop nets and wood target frames much better than others (I know this from a friend I definitely dont miss the target sometimes), of all the modern target arrowheads I have shot the tophead 3D arrowheads got the most penetration (at least vs kevlar backstop net), they are like budget bodkins I had to stop using them because my arrows were hitting concrete wall right behind the net.
2) Arrowhead / arrow shaft thickness, one of the main advantages of modern bows is that they can shoot arrows at lower gpp (light arrows) at high speeds which means the arrows can get really slim, which means they need to defeat less material to penetrate same depth than much thicker arrowheads and arrow shafts. Basic target point that is same thickness as the shaft would probably do better than that broadhead vs hard surface like wood and metal.
3) Compound bows in my experience can achieve more kinetic energy at same draw length and draw weight when compared to olympic bow or laminated horsebow, however it is in ballpark of 20% or so. So if you can do 60 joules with 60 pound horsebow, you probably can do around 70-75 with compound. However compound will be able to achieve this even at 5-6 gpp while with horsebow you generally want 7-10 and probably more with longbow. Also to my understanding it is easier to pull and hold same draw weight with compound when compared to real manly bows. You can get away with very poor form with compound and still shoot relatively high draw weigh without injury, alternatively someone like you could probably pull 180-200 pound compound bow.
I think this is more a commentary on modern arrows vs war arrows, as the mass difference between them is the difference I believe. The bows themselves are simply there to provide acceleration to the arrows. Still a good video
OK, yes... a 100++ lbs Warbow can deliver more kinetic energy than a 70lbs Compound with a light Arrow. What's your point???
My point is that many people did not believe it could (people in the comments mind you) so this was just demonstrating that
I do really admire your accuracy! Wow.
Thank you my friend
Those moder arrows are probably made for hunting animals, to create a wide wound, not for penetration of hard surfaces.
Who won? We did. Thanks for the laughs. :)
I don't think compound bow fans are gonna stop until they are proven right. I think a better comparison would be which more sustainable and practical for everyday use in, say, a zombie apocalypse type scenario.
Anyways, I'm a fan of the classics too, and like Rambro once said in Spy Kids 3 'nothing beats good old blunt force trauma'... 🤭
So glad you had some laughs my friend! I think I enjoy the “skits” as much as anything,
Which actually take like 3 times as long to film as the actual tests 😂
Amazing tests, lots of fun. And the results are pretty much expected when stopping to think about them for a moment. The compound arrows are just not at all designed or fit for hitting a hard target like armour. As soon as we saw that arrow crumple in on itself against the shield, we see the factor limiting penetration isn't the power of the bow but the shape of the tip and structure of the arrow as it's spending a bunch of energy deforming rather than penetrating. I would love to see tests with the same or similar compound bow, but with arrows better designed for a hard target (slimmer head profile and stronger shaft so they don't just break). Obviously modern bodkin arrows aren't really a thing the archery shop will sell, but it would give a much more fair comparison between the bows specifically.
Thanks so much, it was super fun to do as well. But yeah, I even went into the archery shop near me and explained what I was going to do. It was kind of an awkward conversation haha. He gave me the best stuff you thought could work, but it’s just not something that’s thought about, most big game does not wear armor 😂
Ha ha brilliant, Dash mate weight is weight, the heavier the more power, nature. You cannot get blood out of a stone.
Great vid loved it, and don't be modest about your archery skill, we all can see how sodding good you are with a heavy bow. You could always invite yer man from England who built your bow, bet you both could have some fun together that we the audience would lap up.😊
Thank you so much and man that would be an absolute dream to head over there one day. If I ever get a chance or opportunity I will jump at it 💪🏹
You have been on fire lately with the output
Thank you, my friend. Been having tons of fun with it.
ok I had to subscribe.... I will show this to olympic level archers. I really want to see you with an Atlatl!
I have actually done a few videos with that in the past. It’s been a while since I took it out, but I do have one. They are super cool. Also glad to have you my friend.
Great opening. Practice tips might have had a better chance of piercing the armour than the broadheads.
Thank you for that. Yes they very well. May have. I was not sure I went to the archery store and the guy said these were probably my best bet. I’m not familiar with the modern types.
You need to tune the compound-bow and find out which arrow flies best with your configuration, FIRST... also the broadheads nowadays outperform old ones by far..
I’ve been sticking a training band on my bow and now I can fairly easily pull at least 90lbs (where my scale maxes out) I don’t know my current max.
Awesome!! Keep at it that’s fantastic
Need to put a bodkin style tip on the modern arrows. I think the broadheads you are using have a major disadvantage as a head to head against armor.
Use aluminium shafts too. Stiffer and heavier. Carbon just explodes on hard targets.
Well fck Rambo, Rambro join the fight. Also what I see so far commercial compound designed for hunting not for armor unless its a custom compund. Great testing.
Hahah yes that’s basically the point I was trying to make. They are two different tools for two different functions. A lot of people seem to think there was overlap and that a compound bowed out perform, and it is faster and better for hunting game. It’s really not made to punch into armor.
A vagabond on a kayak, I really survive on uninhabited and tropical islands Greetings from Indonesia from the channel Dima traveler . 👋🙂🏝 .
Super cool test. My money was on the old school bows. 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you my friend so glad you enjoyed it!!!
A better question is how the compound bow would perform with war arrows?
I wouldn't expect it to out perform a war bow as they are designed for different purposes.
I think it might damage it to be honest. It’s not my bow so I did not wanna do anything risky with it. They are like 3 times the weight
be interesting to see the compound bow again but with solid single blade broadhead. Or if there's a way to attach a bodkin tip to the modern shaft that would be very cool!
Yeah, I was actually trying to figure out a way to fix a bodkin tip to the arrows. I think I can Jimmy rig something up, but I didn’t have the time to complete it so maybe in the future test I can customize it more.
@@dashrendar5320 that would be rad. I'd be curious though too see if doing that replacement reveals another weakness in the modern shaft. does the carbon fiber have the same strength as the solid wooden? or with a hard enough impact would they be more prone to shattering? Only one way to find out hahaha!
Honestly, I think the best tips you could use on modern arrows are target tips. Since those are just a sharp point similar to bodkin arrows? (Not that familiar with older style arrows). Primarily because they dont have the huge sharp blades designed for cutting unarmored flesh like a broadhead you were using here. Not that I think using that tip would make a modern bow of that poundage beat out an actual war bow, but it would have given a much better showing IMO.
It’s true I was looking jimmy rig some sort of needle or bodkin tip. But I’ve actually reached out to quite a few modern specialists to see if I could use an actual super modern high-powered bow with Better arrows. I still don’t think the mass will be there in the arrows, but I think it can do much better than just with the standard set up. I have.
yeah, I expected those hollow aluminum arrows to break like that one did on the shield test. I've had a few do that from a weaker bow. Like 40-45lb
Yeah, not built for that purpose but a lot of people seemed to think that by using one it would blast though all the stuff
Dash, I'm waiting for a comparison video between the Ottoman war bow vs the English longbow
And I am waiting and dreaming of the day when i can actually get an ottoman war bow
I've seen a few of your videos, and I like you. I'm subscribed now.
Awesome. Happy to have you along.
One thing i always assumed was that compound bow technology was more efficient compared to traditional bows and recurve bows. And that would mean the force graph multiplied with the powerstroke(draw distance) as the input energy and the output energy being the kinetic energy of the arrow.
But now that i think about it, its not so obvious how the gears and cams increase the efficiency when it should actually be the limb material and the tuning of the arrow to the bow that matters in the equation.
If there's any professional/expert who sees this maybe they could explain it to me.
One positive for the compound vow is obviously for the faster velocity ceilings you can achieve with the mechanical advantage. Im not blind to that. Fast arrows have less drop which works great for precision shooting. the draw weight let-off is great for holding it drawn longer, and the trigger tools help decrease some human randomness at the moment of release.
I answered a bit in another comment (sort by newest).. yes, the materials make up for quite a bit (especially for the arrows and their precision) and gears and cams indeed increase the efficiency of the energy transfer to the arrow (different cams lead to different drawcycles lead to different speeds).. Your thinking is pretty much on point - I would have loved a better comparison, there is one dude in the comments who set some things straight and who had a solution with calculating the kinetic energy with a chronograph and a scale...
there is a Danish archer (or Sweden?) who makes trickshots videos, shooting arrows through keyholes and stuff, and he has quite a big channel. In one of his newer videos he tests the penetration on a knight's chest armor replica and how to shoot fast with a compound bow.
a looked a few things up and there are a few things to be found about people calculating the kinetic energy of warbows.. there sure will also be some people doing the same for compound bows and then there are calculators for them...
oh, my comments seem to be hidden.. ahh well, shadowban, technical issue or the owner of the channel doesn't like my writing here...
No I did not hide anything haha. Sorry if they are not showing up. I love the discussion and knowledge my friend 💪🏹
Normally arrows would be made during "down times " which referred periods of time and which you can't go outside. such as during the winter months when you're stuck indoors in situation like that or when there's storms and you can't go outside.
Nowadays they are made while watching Netflix 😂 for me at least
What tips? Looks like armor piercing for the war bows and broad heads for the compound. A spike would be more comparable. If i am wrong about your points then awesome video.
With the compound bow it also depends on the arrow shaft material looks like they're carbon fibre which is way they splinter or crack.
Yeah, I know they make much sturdier ones, but I didn’t want to spend a ton of money knowing I would break down maybe I will revisit later
If Ghengis Khan had not possessed the mighty composite war bows he would have Never been able to conquer the largest empire in world history !
Indeed, that combined with some of the most skilled horse riders of all time they were truly OP in their time. Was almost not fair 😂
I was definitely thinking Ashby arrows off of the compound not Twizzler sticks
Haha small channel small budget…maybe one day, but the funds go to the traditional stuff
You can put field point tip arrows thru 3/4 inch plywood with a 45 lb. compound pretty easily
It is not my expertise for sure. When I went into the archery shop and explained what I was trying to do they said these were kind of the hardest strongest ones they had some sort of needle tip would be much better, but that would have to be custom
I mean, razor broadheads are meant for piercing flesh, not wood or steel. For any kind of comparison you should have used either game hunting heads on the old bows or used target arrows which at least semi-replicate bodkin points.
This was a first attempt and fore into modern vows, I just went to the archery shop and explained what I was trying to do and they said those were the toughest ones they had so obviously refinement is needed and a more powerful compound, but this was just a “basic” hunting setup for sure
Those heavy arrows have a lot more momentum. Speed will increase kinetic energy exponentially (mass× velocity squared). Thats being absorbed into the hard metal surface and dispersed.
Yeah, that’s the one thing. I don’t think people understand until they see it in action is how large the actual arrows and tips are for heavy bows
Great video! I agree with the other comments saying that the compound bow's lighter arrows and different arrowhead are likely the main contributing factor for performing so significantly lower than the historical bows. That horse bow is insane, where did you get that! I'm looking at more recurve style bows (I have the basic like takedown one from any store lol). Thanks!
Yeah, that is a massive difference for sure but modern bows don’t really have much in the way of needle or bodkin points. There is just not a lot of demand against armored deer 😂😂 glad you enjoyed it
I would be interested in seeing you test heavy crossbows, perhaps doing a collaboration with Todd from Todd's Workshop? Anyhow cool video.
Thanks man. Also it’s not Todd but it is one of his crossbows
th-cam.com/video/JO1RTP1Jc4k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fqcVMztZD4okOEt4
Would have liked to have seen the compound bow use field points on the arrows...Broad heads are specifically designed for soft targets ie flesh.
Yeah, I actually have three steel arrows and I was trying to figure a way how to fix a more solid tip onto them. Because I think the field points often times are just too light so I wanted something a little more mass but that would throw off the compoundtrajectory and weight. So I really need to customize something I think.
I hope "Rambro" is a Broforce reference, but alas, I fear not.
That was actually voted as the winner name in the community tab. However..Broforce is genuinely hilarious
Legends say if a RamBro finds 2 other bros, they can unlock the Triforce of Action, and the one liners become too powerful to handle 😎💪🏹💥
Great video, and about as expected against armor.
I am curious about Rate of Fire and Accuracy tests.
Would a modern bow be better for shooting at weaker or unarmored points accurately, and could you get more shoots off much faster?
Accuracy wise 100% it’s much much easier to pull up a specific point with that kind of bow. Though I would say it’s quite a bit slower to load and loose a arrow.
you could be faster with the right rest and release handle, especially with a compound bow magazin construction, and you will be way less tired, have less body damage, even with the same poundage because with a compound you only pull the weight once and then you'll have a letoff (only having to hold a small percentage of the poundage while aiming, 75-90% is standard).. a compound bow is just way more effective when it comes to what you put in and what you get out - even more so over time because of the materials that are being used...
Heavy bows are for many reasons way more rational and performing than compound. My personal favorite and excellent bow is Howard Hill Bear Cub
That’s super cool! I would have loved to have a Howard hill bow
Both bows are designed for verry different jobs. I would gladly take either one for the purpose intended
Indeed. I think the people I was mainly making the video for based on the comments made tended to think that the compound would beat the warbows in anything. This was just showing they are both for very different purposes
I totally agree with you.
Very satisfying.😂
😁
First, love Ram Bro. Best intro I think. Question. Is the horse bow the same or similar to what the Mongolian archers used?
Thank you so much! So glad you Enjoyed the intro. This one is much larger than the Mongolian bows. Those ones were closer to 40 inches and this one is 54 I think
I agree with everything I’d just be curious to see a comparison with your bows and a new compound against a ballistics manikin or something to emulate a deer, it would be cool to see some of the old school hunting tips vs the new school beings the newer stuff didn’t have armor in mind when they were developed like the older stuff did
A bit ridiculous when bodkins are made to penetrate while broadheads are made to cut. A test with similar style heads sized to the shaft would be interesting.
Seeing the results of Misko's work on that horsebow I can safely say I will eventually upgrade from my #55 Tiron to a #80 Tiron or Despot from him when I have the strength. Best bowyer in the world fight me Joe Gibs. (j/k I love them both)
Hahahaah they are both amazing 100% and yes it’s an amazing product no doubt
Ancient Bows are meant more for War where as most Modern Compound Bows are meant for hunting
100% agree. That was really the point of this a lot of people thought that the modern ones would out perform even the heavy warbows and they are faster in speed and more accurate but It’s a completely different function. Apples to oranges ones for armor ones for unarmored game
Arrows? I think you put the issue to rest, but I'd be curious to what happens if you shoot one of the heavy arrows with the compound bow (and vice-verse?). 😁
Great vid! Thanks!
Haha if the bow was mine I would try it but it’s not mine and I feel like if I tried to push out one of those massive arrows it would not be health for the compound bow
There are bodkin style arrows for modern arrows, would have been a bit closer of a comparison. Thanks for the video!
Well, effect of shooting broadheads on metal sheets is... expected.
Heavier and more impact resistant arrows will be key for a modern compound bow against armor, or sturdier targets in general. A fast, but light arrow will only shatter on impact out of a more powerful bow. Arrows must be built like tanks. Just like their ancient counterparts. High quality carbon, long steel insert and outset, carbon inner tube and narrow solid broad heads are necessary to beat the war bow in its own field.
As expected really, but nice to see it tested. Though I am curious how the composite arrow shafts sometimes used would fare from the modern bow - the nature of CF/Fibreglass is to not break or even deform very much till it fails rather explosively, so it might just do a little better than the thin wall metal tube arrows against armour if the impact is below that explosive range. Still going to be a light arrow, so not expecting vast difference but it would be interesting to see.
This was more a comparison of wooden arrows vs. carbon arrows than compound vs. warbow.
As todd has shown, a middle-class crossbow throws the same wooden arrow as fast as a heavy longbow.
I have a PSE fang crossbow the draw weight is 200 pounds, I have to use a winch to cock it the arrows have a bullet head tip for practice even so I don't think it would be able to do anything better than the traditional ones against armer, same thing with my PSE decree compound bow 60 pounds draw
I think if you used a compound with a 30” draw and 80lb limbs and an arrow about as heavy around 1000-1600 grains with a single bevel two blade broadhead, the results would be vastly different.
I am sure you are correct. That would be a big investment for me to get all those specs though, this was a very “basic” compound setup
@@dashrendar5320 agreed 👍
RamBro and the Force of Beefdom
😂😂😂😂
After the arrow has left the bow it does not remember what kind of bow it was. So this is really a test of the arrows.
Great video! 👍 Have a nice day!
Thanks my friend! You as well
Rambro's arrow should explode!!!
Would be cool if you'd be able to do that in the future but i can see the legalities being a pain in the ass
Hahaha yeah that’s gonna violate some local ordinances
Modern arrows just don’t have the mass. If you could push the traditional arrows out of a modern compound, that may yield better results.
The compound seems to have a much lower drawweight than other bows and the fiberglass arrows are much thiner than the other arrows.
Interesting tests. Being a recurve bowman for over 60 years (yeah, I'm old) I obviously lean to favor your horse bow. But in the late 80's a bow hunting guitarist buddy of mine introduced me to the compound. It felt really odd to shoot. Very unnatural. Got pretty good with it, but I seldom take it out of the case. I did shoot it like a recurve using fingers, canted, and no sights. I keep the compound as it was a gift from a friend, and a signature model that is no longer available. 😏
I don't know what you expect?
A compound bow doesn't magically multiply the pounds of force. 😅
A compound bow are built for easy use and accuracy.
I expected what I got haha. Like I said in the beginning this was just a highly requested comparison
i did some testing with modern arrows against shields and a standart 6mm arrow with a fielt tip penetrates the best against the wood i had .... i have to say i used plywood with textile and epoxi in my test not historical at all but these where my resoults
Thank you for that. I know there are better tips out there I just was not sure what would be best
@@dashrendar5320 still nice video as always 😋👍
Thank you my friend! So glad you enjoyed it
Read the Ashby report. They busted the ball joint of an Asian water buffalo. It's five inches of bone