I was sceptical, but I do hear a clear difference, the 10 lug being tighter, the 8 more expansive. Neither is better than the other, just subtly different. Thanks for the demo
Absolutely, a distinct difference. I love the extra “POP” of the ten lug. The eight is exactly as you described. Open and overtone-ish. Both are beautiful, but I’ll take the ten lug. 🤓
I finally found the final snare drum for my collection. First, I'm hearing the same thing as you, especially in the longer playing sections. OK, I'm one of those drummer who doesn't care for ringy snares. Every snare I own was chosen with this being a key requirement. With that said, from playing live, I understand completely the importance of having overtones present... my experience is--if they're pleasing overtones--they fill out the snare sound, so it doesn't sound flat to the audience. All of this is 10x more important in unmiked situations. If a drum has too many overtones, you can muffle. You can't do the opposite, if a drum is lacking overtones. So here's where it gets interesting. This is one of the very few snare drums I've ever heard where I actually like the sound of the overtones I'm hearing. I'm actually shocked that's the case. I've been looking for a non-hammered brass snare in 6.5 and listened to dozens of such snares. I got the finalist list down to a Pearl Reference Brass, a Gretsch Bell Brass, and a Rogers Dynasonic 7-Line. I kept listening to them over and over. In my humble opinion they are the three of the four best brass snares for playing rock currently in production. The best brass rock snare ever made, again just my opinion is the original Tama Bell Brass... Terminator... Beast...all fitting descriptions; but, as you all know, no longer being manufactured. Just as an aside, I think the closest drum being produced with the Tama sound is the Gretsch USA Solid Steel. I didn't opt for it, since I'm not wanting the Tama sound. I think the Tama, Gretsch Solid Steel, and Gretsch Bell Brass share a certain type of sound. And the Pearl and Rogers share a certain type of sound. Which brings us to... The Ludwig Black Beauty 8-Lug. It wasn't even on my radar, primarily because of the Pearl and Rogers snares. BUT, then I saw this video. If you go listen to the videos of the Pearl and Rogers, I think it's impossible to dispute that they are fabulous sounding brass snare drums. BUT, they lack something I hear with the 8-lug Ludwig Black Beauty: For want of a better term, the BB has character. There's just something magical going on there. It's in the totality of the sound: Initial attack, tone, overtones (musical, again, for the first time for me), and decay. Also, there's a fatness there that I love. I'm not knocking the 10-lug...I mean, how could anyone deny the real world "proof" of that drums performance on countless recordings over the history of modern music. But, for me, I would put it on the same, to slightly higher, level as the other alternative drums I've previously mentioned. One final note that played a role in my decision: I know exactly how the Ludwig will lay in a recording. Like it's close siblings, the Supraphonic and Acrolite, it will blend well and work in numerous different musical genres. If you read this far, hopefully there is something I shared that will help you. Peace.
Also, I love your demo and comparison videos BUT I really miss the solo overhead mic samples that you used to have on your videos. To me, the overheads give the best representation of how a drum sounds to the player and is a big part of a drum sound when recording. Rooms don’t give me enough clarity to tell the actual character of a drum and close mics can be “misleading” to how a drum sounds. Just my humble opinion, but would love for that to come back. Regardless, thanks for the great content!
He's not talking about tuning, rather the characteristics of the overall sound. The timbre of the drum itself has little to do with tuning. As long as it's in tune, obviously.
As soon as the ten lug drum began to be played I knew that was by far and away my favorite. More precise and crisp. But Ludwig is smart to introduce another alternative. Not everyone is old and set in their ways like me.
Nothing wrong with the 8 lug, but from the first seconds of play, the 10 lug shouts out, “I’m a Black Beauty!” That’s the sound a lot of people buy the drum for, imo. (Edit: Thanks for doing the comparison!)
10 lug more focused and 8 lug more full fat sounding! Maybe a tad more ring sound on the 8 lug? Both drums sound equally incredible to me. I guess it comes down to personal preference. It’s a no lose situation.
Love em both. They're Ludwig and they're Black Beauties, so they are of course incredible. Probably like the 10 lug just slightly more, for the same reasons many have said. It would be cool when you guys are demoing snares to also play them with the snares off to get that comparison as well. I like that you guys always give us a bit of the sound of just the room mics along with the full mix. Too bad you guys couldn't get your hands on the Alex Van Halen signature Ludwig Rosewood snare from a few years back and the Alex Van Halen signature Ludwig Supraphonic from a couple years ago and do a comparison video of those awesome snares lol.
One thing that people don't realize. You can put diecast hoops on the 8 lug drum and it takes it out of the stratosphere. Attack, clarity, and body. Now if i put diecast hoops on the 10 lug drum, all it does is choke it. I did this diecast experiment with a 8 lug Acrolite and a 10 lug Supraphonic. It wasn't even close. The Acrolite ran circles around it.
hi let us hear your diecast enhancment. The difference by shell material ist less than hoop material keep on druming and move coffee to prost position Norbert form Germany
Any extra hardware added to a drum wants to take away a piece of the sound. That’s just the physics principle of sound. The 8 lug definitely will be a more open sound. I bet the 8 lug with die cast hoops you will make the sound open and fatter too.
Again, you guys deliver the killer content we want! Thank you! 🔥🥁🔥 Personally I hear a hint more openness in the 8-lug version, but it’s marginal. I love them both. 🙂
The 8 lug hands down for me. Have you thought of a ‘Best of 8 lug drums’ video? Shane seems to favour them quite a bit, and I can see he’s onto something. I see that Gretsch produce some 8 lug drums but I am not sure if there’s enough out there to do a video?
Actually surprised from all those who prefer the 10. As the saying goes..it's easy to take away but impossible to add. That said, you take away 2 lugs and ADD body to the shell. Addition by subtraction. This is an absolute no brainer...if you can tune an 8 lug snare (it is a completely different skill) you go 8. Muffling, heads and even heavier hoops can give the pleasantries in the 10 some are wanting for in the 8. Another thing of note..you can take any in-round shell with good edges and, sonic preferences aside, it will almost certainly be more tonally whole with less hardware on it.
Hey, great video! Until i saw this i was firmly a 10 lug subscriber. I thought that the only reason snares had 8 lugs was because they're cheaper to produce. However, the difference is obvious. Thanks indeed!
I definitely hear a bit more ring and overtones with the 8 lug. I tend to slightly prefer the drier sound of a 10, but there's something really satisfying about the lower tension feel of an 8, so I've been playing an 8 lately. Not a Black Beauty though, unfortunately!
The 8 lug is more open...The 10 lug is more focused....Both are still that great Loodwig sound!!! I’d have to have both of them!! Oh yeah and the playing of each instrument was off the chain!!
I always thought the 10lug BB sounded a little too flat at times (people would probably call it tight/focused). the supraphonic sounds much more open, but always felt a little muddy too me. maybe the 8lug BB is exactly what I always looked for: more cranked open body, still good attack - the rimshot comparison in the end was much in favor of the 8lug for my ears. just wonder if I would miss that very tight punch of the 10lug? anyway, great comparison, thanks so much! ❤
Owning both several vintage acrolites (8 lugs) and supras (10 lugs) I thought I'd like better the 8 lugs black beauty, but no, quite amazingly to my ears that 10 lugs black beauty still sounds slightly better.
Remove the rubber pads underneath the lugs. 1. The rubber pads kill the voice of the drum, removing them adds another level of sound and tone dynamic. 2. MOST IMPORTANTLY! The chemicals in the rubber, when combined with moisture and pressure over time ( with additional foreign object debris, ie micro dust, and fungal activity ), will irreparably damage the shell's finish and/or the shell when left too long. WHY Ludwig does this makes NO sense to me. If you prefer a muted sound, Ludwig once ( I do not know if Ludwig still manufactures them ) made a type of grayish-black NOMEX pad that did NOT have the deleterious effect that the rubber does. On another note, in 1995 I traded a TAMA 8 x 14 brass snare drum for a Ludwig LM400. The LM400 was in its original, unopened box from 1970. The ink-stamped date was: April 24, 1970. There were NO muting pads ( rubber or otherwise ), and NO damage beneath the ten beautiful chrome Imperial lugs and that drum sang! My nephew has been playing that LM400 the past twenty years and it sings its heart out every time. TAKE OFF THE PADS!
It easy to hear that the 8 lug has a more open sound than the 10 lug. The heavier a snare with more lugs and heavier hoops will just naturally choke the drum more. I have a 8 lug 5x14 snare now and it the best snare I've ever had. And it's very loud!
I actually talked to this guy on the phone the other day. Super nice guy and now I know that he can play. Great player. I trust his opinion. I don’t keep up on the latest greatest products that are available, but these guys obviously do. These are the guys to buy from. They do everything well. Support the Mom and Pops. I have the ten lug by the way...
The traditional 10-lug sounds more controlled and ‘tight’ - like a better version of a Supraphonic or Acrolite - compared to the 8-lug which sounds a little more ‘wide’ or open - presuming both came with Ludwig Weather Master medium heads. I can appreciate the 8-lug but prefer the 10-lug …probably because I have one. I’d say the 10-lug can do what the 8-lug can do with looser tuning or a lighter head but _not_ vice versa
Hi. Are you running diecast on batter and resonant, or just batter. Also, any additional thoughts on the sound quality your getting with the diecast hoop(s) would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
@@camerondean6804you get all of the benefits of the diecast hoops improved backbeat rim shot and rim click, but with the open fatness and body of the triple flange. It’s honestly the best of both worlds. Type in Ludwig Acrolite with diecast hoops in the TH-cam search bar. It’s amazing
As someone who owns 9 Ludwig snares. If you buy any Ludwig snares, always buy new top and bottom heads and snare wires. Also, I put on Dunnett or Trick throw offs. Those are things Ludwig needs to address. The P85 replacement is not much better. Don’t worry. Shane and the boys will hook you up.
The issue that Ludwig hasn’t addressed is the addition of rubber gaskets on the Supra and black beauty lines some years ago. Many have commented, myself included, that the amount of rubber under all the gaskets and butt plate mutes the shell a bit. There is a noticeable difference in shell resonance when the gaskets are removed. Some say they were added to correct “ lug splay”, some say just a cosmetic thing, but they definitely do have a muting affect on the shell. I bought a used 10 lug early 2000’s BB and I removed the gaskets straight away. MUCH better sound, more tone more presence. I wish they would do away with them myself. Surely it would have dawned on someone that maybe adding this amount of rubber may inhibit the shell resonance. Guess not.
Clint Carothers Yes, you have to get rid of those resonance-killing rubber gaskets. The resulting lug splay though is awful and the only way around this is different hoops (1.6/1.9mm) and vintage lug (that have the receiving socket closer to the back of the lug).
If the addition of the rubber gaskets has such an adverse impact on sound and resonance, why doesn’t Ludwig just tweak the diameter of the shell a bit (or the hoops they use) to eliminate the need for gaskets to compensate for “lug splay” (tension rod splay really)? The make enough Beauties to compensate for any additional cost.
Surprisingly I could hear more of a difference between the 8-lug and the 10-lug than I could between the Pork Pie BOB and the BB? th-cam.com/users/shortsIEBKCswkA28?feature=share I much prefer the 10 lug in your demo. Great playing.
Yes I hear a difference and I prefer the 8 lug snare fit the reasons you said. I prefer the feel of the head less tensioned when playing them as well. I have 5.5”-24” Gretsch ISA custom snare with 10 lugs but I prefer the 8 lugger I had in the past. More body whereas my 10 lug sound a bit more this to me. Neither is bad here though I just prefer the 8 lug.
I have the 8 lug BB...it's a wonderful pice of instrument, such a great sounding snare...i love it! Can't speak for evwrys taste but i certainly prefer less is more!
I focused on the ring decay first....It's not night and day, but the 8lug has a bit more sustain. With the room mics only the 10lug sounded drier(more focused) to me. Both great instruments, but my pick would be the 8lug. and yeah....that kick does not suck! :-)
8 lug snare is more open and it has lower pitch at the same tuning. it was obvious. I prefer 10 lug version because sound is better controlled, it has less overtones (but still plenty of tone and musicality), it is more focused. I think that's why 10 lug snares are standard for the last couple of decades: they offered more balanced and mature sound. To be honest, it would be much more interesting to see Ludwig 6 lug version instead of 8 lug! I have 6 lug, all brass vintage snare and it has even more open sound than this particular 8 lug. But... if you like to experiment: just unscrew 2 or 4 lugs from 10 lug snare, tune it and you will get very interesting sound without buying 8 lug version.
Hmm. There is more difference than I would have thought. Thanks for the video and decent audio! The 8-lug is obviously "breathing easier" - the shell is resonating much more than the 10-lug. I wonder how much difference there is between Imperial and tube lugs? There is much less surface area contact with Tube lugs and I personally LOVE the way the Black Beauty rings! I think I'm going to get one, have wanted one since about 1997. Now Ludwig has added the 8-lug option to the three different depths and two different lug style choices... I don't know which one to get!
I had a new 10 lug Black beauty. Didn't like it , very flat dry sound. Got rid of it. Bought a new Gretsch 8 lug snare 5x14 wood shell instead. I don't think the new ludwig BB's are like the one's I had in the late 70's.
Did anyone experience lugs lossen up after a while with the BB? If yes was that with imperial lugs or tube, and 8 or 10? Thx! I want to purchase one but want to do the good choice… ✌🏼
They both sound great. The 10 lug seems to have a bit more "pop" and feels *maybe* a bit more constrained, the 8 lug sounds a bit more open with *maybe* a bit more "pang". The difference in context isn't as big as pretty much any other variable though. I love these videos, but I don't understand why so much time is devoted to the room mic sound. I get that our ears aren't right next to a drum when it's being hit, but room mics don't sound like what we hear in a room either. They add great context to a full mix, but I always find myself jumping over that part of these videos. I'll bet I'm not the only one. Please take that as constructive criticism only though. No shade intended at all. I think you guys do an amazing job with these videos!
I have a 5 x 14 and a 61/2 x14. I know it’s apples and oranges but keep in mind 8 lug any drum the smallest adjustment either up or down has greater effect than in a 10 lug
Ringing drums are the bane of my existence. Why would I buy a ringer on purpose? By this time, we've all heard the story of Al Jackson, Jr. taping his wallet to his snare head. He did pretty good for himself. Well, except for that whole getting murdered thing. Give me the 10 lug, thank you very much. And forgive me but "Ah, the civilians won't notice the difference anyway" is not the proper attitude as far as I'm concerned. We've all said it in the heat of battle to make ourselves feel better but 'sounding just good enough to get over on the public' seems like a fairly miserable thing to aspire to.
You can definitely hear the difference. Both sound great but I prefer the 10 lug. Please fix the graphics -laboratory not labratory (it distracted me thinking about it through the video).
I've been playing the 10 lug 6.5 X 14 Black Beauty for 25 years. The 8 lug version definitely sounds more open and full to me. Both sounded good, but the 8 lug drum does have a bit more open sound.
One question. Was there a difference in the stick response from the feel of the head.? We can hear clear differences. What I feel in 10 lug snares is a hair stiffer head - ( which I prefer) did you- do you? Anybody- Beuhler???
I think the eight lug has the more classic Ludwig tone I’ve come to know and love. Slightly more “Bonhamesque” I guess the true comparison Im considering is The black beauty to the supraphonic
Im digging the 8 lug. Sounds more balanced with more color. Love the crack of the 10 but feel the 8 would sit better in a recorded mix. The 10's crack might be better live for more cut. Both sound fantastic though.
I don't know, I thought I heard more of a focused 'smack' out of the 10, and that's something I like in a snare. I noticed it mostly at the A/B 'hard hits' at the very end. It's hard to be sure though in a youtube vid.
Both sounding fantastic, but yeh the 8 lug seems just a tad more open and musical. I want both! 😂 I like the tuning, do you know the tunebot settings you used? I might hone in on that. Keep up the great work guys 👊🏻
@@tinterlande thanks! That's generally where I tune my snares anyway... maybe time for a black beauty cos mine don't sound like that, haha! Better get saving....
the ten is more sensitive under tension, more there but the 8 sounds darker and more pleasing or calm, with the same sonic undertone, both tidy and will suit diff songs, so hard hearing drums alone, maybe shoot a vid with a bass player gut, get the dunnetts and black irons out again x
I was sceptical, but I do hear a clear difference, the 10 lug being tighter, the 8 more expansive. Neither is better than the other, just subtly different. Thanks for the demo
Thanks for watching, Matt!
Both are great sounding snare drums.
Absolutely, a distinct difference. I love the extra “POP” of the ten lug. The eight is exactly as you described. Open and overtone-ish. Both are beautiful, but I’ll take the ten lug. 🤓
I finally found the final snare drum for my collection.
First, I'm hearing the same thing as you, especially in the longer playing sections. OK, I'm one of those drummer who doesn't care for ringy snares. Every snare I own was chosen with this being a key requirement. With that said, from playing live, I understand completely the importance of having overtones present... my experience is--if they're pleasing overtones--they fill out the snare sound, so it doesn't sound flat to the audience. All of this is 10x more important in unmiked situations. If a drum has too many overtones, you can muffle. You can't do the opposite, if a drum is lacking overtones.
So here's where it gets interesting. This is one of the very few snare drums I've ever heard where I actually like the sound of the overtones I'm hearing. I'm actually shocked that's the case. I've been looking for a non-hammered brass snare in 6.5 and listened to dozens of such snares. I got the finalist list down to a Pearl Reference Brass, a Gretsch Bell Brass, and a Rogers Dynasonic 7-Line. I kept listening to them over and over. In my humble opinion they are the three of the four best brass snares for playing rock currently in production. The best brass rock snare ever made, again just my opinion is the original Tama Bell Brass... Terminator... Beast...all fitting descriptions; but, as you all know, no longer being manufactured. Just as an aside, I think the closest drum being produced with the Tama sound is the Gretsch USA Solid Steel. I didn't opt for it, since I'm not wanting the Tama sound. I think the Tama, Gretsch Solid Steel, and Gretsch Bell Brass share a certain type of sound. And the Pearl and Rogers share a certain type of sound. Which brings us to...
The Ludwig Black Beauty 8-Lug. It wasn't even on my radar, primarily because of the Pearl and Rogers snares. BUT, then I saw this video. If you go listen to the videos of the Pearl and Rogers, I think it's impossible to dispute that they are fabulous sounding brass snare drums. BUT, they lack something I hear with the 8-lug Ludwig Black Beauty: For want of a better term, the BB has character. There's just something magical going on there. It's in the totality of the sound: Initial attack, tone, overtones (musical, again, for the first time for me), and decay. Also, there's a fatness there that I love. I'm not knocking the 10-lug...I mean, how could anyone deny the real world "proof" of that drums performance on countless recordings over the history of modern music. But, for me, I would put it on the same, to slightly higher, level as the other alternative drums I've previously mentioned.
One final note that played a role in my decision: I know exactly how the Ludwig will lay in a recording. Like it's close siblings, the Supraphonic and Acrolite, it will blend well and work in numerous different musical genres. If you read this far, hopefully there is something I shared that will help you. Peace.
Also, I love your demo and comparison videos BUT I really miss the solo overhead mic samples that you used to have on your videos. To me, the overheads give the best representation of how a drum sounds to the player and is a big part of a drum sound when recording. Rooms don’t give me enough clarity to tell the actual character of a drum and close mics can be “misleading” to how a drum sounds. Just my humble opinion, but would love for that to come back. Regardless, thanks for the great content!
The 8 lug was more pleasing to the ear, and the 10 lug did sound too tightly focused in comparison. For me the 8 lug wins hands down
but you can retune the 10" to sound the they you want
He's not talking about tuning, rather the characteristics of the overall sound. The timbre of the drum itself has little to do with tuning. As long as it's in tune, obviously.
To my novice ears I like the 10 lug sounds better, because of the engraving lol
definitely, I'd say the engrave shavings make the shell thinner and therefore it's sounds deeper and fuller hahaha
I'd go for the 8 lug because it sounds more open and it has a bit more of attack. Both great products !!
As soon as the ten lug drum began to be played I knew that was by far and away my favorite. More precise and crisp. But Ludwig is smart to introduce another alternative. Not everyone is old and set in their ways like me.
Nothing wrong with the 8 lug, but from the first seconds of play, the 10 lug shouts out, “I’m a Black Beauty!” That’s the sound a lot of people buy the drum for, imo. (Edit: Thanks for doing the comparison!)
10 lug more focused and 8 lug more full fat sounding!
Maybe a tad more ring sound on the 8 lug?
Both drums sound equally incredible to me.
I guess it comes down to personal preference.
It’s a no lose situation.
I surprised myself by liking the 8-lug more
Gotta say the 10 lug drum. I just like a tighter sound
Love em both. They're Ludwig and they're Black Beauties, so they are of course incredible. Probably like the 10 lug just slightly more, for the same reasons many have said. It would be cool when you guys are demoing snares to also play them with the snares off to get that comparison as well. I like that you guys always give us a bit of the sound of just the room mics along with the full mix. Too bad you guys couldn't get your hands on the Alex Van Halen signature Ludwig Rosewood snare from a few years back and the Alex Van Halen signature Ludwig Supraphonic from a couple years ago and do a comparison video of those awesome snares lol.
Great comparison. 8 lug a little more open, more ring. 10 lug brighter more focused, both have that dark tone of the brass shell.
Good Lord...Ludwig drums sound so damn good. These snare drums are both incredible. If I was rich, I'd probably have to buy one of each of these!
One thing that people don't realize. You can put diecast hoops on the 8 lug drum and it takes it out of the stratosphere. Attack, clarity, and body. Now if i put diecast hoops on the 10 lug drum, all it does is choke it. I did this diecast experiment with a 8 lug Acrolite and a 10 lug Supraphonic. It wasn't even close. The Acrolite ran circles around it.
hi let us hear your diecast enhancment. The difference by shell material ist less than hoop material
keep on druming and move coffee to prost position
Norbert form Germany
8 lug brings the beef.
Love both but the 10 is a little closer to my likeings.
Any extra hardware added to a drum wants to take away a piece of the sound. That’s just the physics principle of sound. The 8 lug definitely will be a more open sound. I bet the 8 lug with die cast hoops you will make the sound open and fatter too.
5:53 6:03
6:01 6:09
10 lug- more heavy, hard rock , heavy metal music
8 lug- all other music styles
Of course my humble opinion
They sound like they're tuned slightly different.
Again, you guys deliver the killer content we want! Thank you! 🔥🥁🔥 Personally I hear a hint more openness in the 8-lug version, but it’s marginal. I love them both. 🙂
Definitely got more of the overtones with the 8 lug, sounds sweet
The 8 lug sounds darker and warmer. The 10 lug sounds brighter and sharper. Much prefer the 8 lug. Both great sounding snares.
The 8 lug hands down for me. Have you thought of a ‘Best of 8 lug drums’ video? Shane seems to favour them quite a bit, and I can see he’s onto something. I see that Gretsch produce some 8 lug drums but I am not sure if there’s enough out there to do a video?
Actually surprised from all those who prefer the 10. As the saying goes..it's easy to take away but impossible to add. That said, you take away 2 lugs and ADD body to the shell. Addition by subtraction. This is an absolute no brainer...if you can tune an 8 lug snare (it is a completely different skill) you go 8. Muffling, heads and even heavier hoops can give the pleasantries in the 10 some are wanting for in the 8. Another thing of note..you can take any in-round shell with good edges and, sonic preferences aside, it will almost certainly be more tonally whole with less hardware on it.
“And Ludwig marketing wept, for the term ‘Blackrolite’ was already taken.”
I have both 10 and 8 love the warm 8 tone but for performance the 10 is it. Both have their place and thanks for the demo.
Hey, great video! Until i saw this i was firmly a 10 lug subscriber. I thought that the only reason snares had 8 lugs was because they're cheaper to produce. However, the difference is obvious. Thanks indeed!
I definitely hear a bit more ring and overtones with the 8 lug. I tend to slightly prefer the drier sound of a 10, but there's something really satisfying about the lower tension feel of an 8, so I've been playing an 8 lately. Not a Black Beauty though, unfortunately!
The 8 lug is more open...The 10 lug is more focused....Both are still that great Loodwig sound!!! I’d have to have both of them!! Oh yeah and the playing of each instrument was off the chain!!
Nice to hear positive feedback! Thanks, Slick!
The 10-lug sounded TOO controlled for my taste. 8-lug is gonna be the choice for me, from here on out.
Awesome!! Can you guys do a video comparing the tube lug and imperial lug versions? Some people say there’s a sound difference between them.
I was wondering about that too!
I hear the Bonham sound in the 8 lug
Exactly
The 8 is warmer while the 10 for its tightness gets a higher tone. It’s just what you want…both a equal quality.
I'll take both. Black Beauties are my favorite touring snares. Sounds to me like this is a win/win situation.
The 8 gets busy, the 10 does the business, thanks for the comparison demo and all the specs on the kit.
I always thought the 10lug BB sounded a little too flat at times (people would probably call it tight/focused). the supraphonic sounds much more open, but always felt a little muddy too me. maybe the 8lug BB is exactly what I always looked for: more cranked open body, still good attack - the rimshot comparison in the end was much in favor of the 8lug for my ears. just wonder if I would miss that very tight punch of the 10lug? anyway, great comparison, thanks so much! ❤
Bothe drums look beautiful sound beautiful and I’d love to own either one but for now I’m still loving my LM-402 Supraphonic 14x6/1/2.
Thanks for the comparison! Any chance you could compare last years 8 lug anniversary edition to the current 8 lug?
10 lugs hits that sweet spot you can hear. Both fantastic.
Owning both several vintage acrolites (8 lugs) and supras (10 lugs) I thought I'd like better the 8 lugs black beauty, but no, quite amazingly to my ears that 10 lugs black beauty still sounds slightly better.
Remove the rubber pads underneath the lugs. 1. The rubber pads kill the voice of the drum, removing them adds another level of sound and tone dynamic. 2. MOST IMPORTANTLY! The chemicals in the rubber, when combined with moisture and pressure over time ( with additional foreign object debris, ie micro dust, and fungal activity ), will irreparably damage the shell's finish and/or the shell when left too long. WHY Ludwig does this makes NO sense to me. If you prefer a muted sound, Ludwig once ( I do not know if Ludwig still manufactures them ) made a type of grayish-black NOMEX pad that did NOT have the deleterious effect that the rubber does.
On another note, in 1995 I traded a TAMA 8 x 14 brass snare drum for a Ludwig LM400. The LM400 was in its original, unopened box from 1970. The ink-stamped date was: April 24, 1970. There were NO muting pads ( rubber or otherwise ), and NO damage beneath the ten beautiful chrome Imperial lugs and that drum sang! My nephew has been playing that LM400 the past twenty years and it sings its heart out every time. TAKE OFF THE PADS!
It easy to hear that the 8 lug has a more open sound than the 10 lug. The heavier a snare with more lugs and heavier hoops will just naturally choke the drum more. I have a 8 lug 5x14 snare now and it the best snare I've ever had. And it's very loud!
Also 8 lugs as opposed to 10 lugs has less points of tension on the heads, meaning a slightly lower pitch at the same tuning as the 10 lug.
POV : The More Lugs in a Snare , the more Accurate Tone Control 🛂 !! TDR - Total Dynamics Response !!!
I know that this video is a snare drum comparison but that kick drum, WOW !!!
I actually talked to this guy on the phone the other day. Super nice guy and now I know that he can play. Great player. I trust his opinion. I don’t keep up on the latest greatest products that are available, but these guys obviously do.
These are the guys to buy from. They do everything well.
Support the Mom and Pops.
I have the ten lug by the way...
The traditional 10-lug sounds more controlled and ‘tight’ - like a better version of a Supraphonic or Acrolite - compared to the 8-lug which sounds a little more ‘wide’ or open - presuming both came with Ludwig Weather Master medium heads. I can appreciate the 8-lug but prefer the 10-lug …probably because I have one. I’d say the 10-lug can do what the 8-lug can do with looser tuning or a lighter head but _not_ vice versa
If you hear the 8 lug with diecast hoops, that’s when it becomes a game changer
Hi. Are you running diecast on batter and resonant, or just batter. Also, any additional thoughts on the sound quality your getting with the diecast hoop(s) would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
@@camerondean6804you get all of the benefits of the diecast hoops improved backbeat rim shot and rim click, but with the open fatness and body of the triple flange. It’s honestly the best of both worlds. Type in Ludwig Acrolite with diecast hoops in the TH-cam search bar. It’s amazing
As someone who owns 9 Ludwig snares. If you buy any Ludwig snares, always buy new top and bottom heads and snare wires. Also, I put on Dunnett or Trick throw offs. Those are things Ludwig needs to address. The P85 replacement is not much better. Don’t worry. Shane and the boys will hook you up.
Joe sells the drums.
The issue that Ludwig hasn’t addressed is the addition of rubber gaskets on the Supra and black beauty lines some years ago. Many have commented, myself included, that the amount of rubber under all the gaskets and butt plate mutes the shell a bit. There is a noticeable difference in shell resonance when the gaskets are removed. Some say they were added to correct “ lug splay”, some say just a cosmetic thing, but they definitely do have a muting affect on the shell. I bought a used 10 lug early 2000’s BB and I removed the gaskets straight away. MUCH better sound, more tone more presence. I wish they would do away with them myself. Surely it would have dawned on someone that maybe adding this amount of rubber may inhibit the shell resonance. Guess not.
Clint Carothers Yes, you have to get rid of those resonance-killing rubber gaskets. The resulting lug splay though is awful and the only way around this is different hoops (1.6/1.9mm) and vintage lug (that have the receiving socket closer to the back of the lug).
If the addition of the rubber gaskets has such an adverse impact on sound and resonance, why doesn’t Ludwig just tweak the diameter of the shell a bit (or the hoops they use) to eliminate the need for gaskets to compensate for “lug splay” (tension rod splay really)? The make enough Beauties to compensate for any additional cost.
Ok, again you provide great content for us...thank you guys...both are great snares, i want both!
Surprisingly I could hear more of a difference between the 8-lug and the 10-lug than I could between the Pork Pie BOB and the BB? th-cam.com/users/shortsIEBKCswkA28?feature=share I much prefer the 10 lug in your demo. Great playing.
Yes I hear a difference and I prefer the 8 lug snare fit the reasons you said. I prefer the feel of the head less tensioned when playing them as well. I have 5.5”-24” Gretsch ISA custom snare with 10 lugs but I prefer the 8 lugger I had in the past. More body whereas my 10 lug sound a bit more this to me. Neither is bad here though I just prefer the 8 lug.
8 lug is much fatter more shell sounding. Awesome.
I have the 8 lug BB...it's a wonderful pice of instrument, such a great sounding snare...i love it!
Can't speak for evwrys taste but i certainly prefer less is more!
AS a fan boy of Ludwig snare drums who has 7 Ludwig snare drums and has a hammered BB that is a ten lugs. My Acrolite just found a new big brother
I focused on the ring decay first....It's not night and day, but the 8lug has a bit more sustain. With the room mics only the 10lug sounded drier(more focused) to me.
Both great instruments, but my pick would be the 8lug.
and yeah....that kick does not suck! :-)
8 lug snare is more open and it has lower pitch at the same tuning. it was obvious.
I prefer 10 lug version because sound is better controlled, it has less overtones (but still plenty of tone and musicality), it is more focused. I think that's why 10 lug snares are standard for the last couple of decades: they offered more balanced and mature sound.
To be honest, it would be much more interesting to see Ludwig 6 lug version instead of 8 lug!
I have 6 lug, all brass vintage snare and it has even more open sound than this particular 8 lug.
But... if you like to experiment: just unscrew 2 or 4 lugs from 10 lug snare, tune it and you will get very interesting sound without buying 8 lug version.
Love the 8 lug. Too much compression on your full mixes though guys!
Hmm. There is more difference than I would have thought. Thanks for the video and decent audio! The 8-lug is obviously "breathing easier" - the shell is resonating much more than the 10-lug. I wonder how much difference there is between Imperial and tube lugs? There is much less surface area contact with Tube lugs and I personally LOVE the way the Black Beauty rings! I think I'm going to get one, have wanted one since about 1997. Now Ludwig has added the 8-lug option to the three different depths and two different lug style choices... I don't know which one to get!
I had a new 10 lug Black beauty. Didn't like it , very flat dry sound. Got rid of it. Bought a new Gretsch 8 lug snare 5x14 wood shell instead. I don't think the new ludwig BB's are like the one's I had in the late 70's.
Did anyone experience lugs lossen up after a while with the BB? If yes was that with imperial lugs or tube, and 8 or 10? Thx! I want to purchase one but want to do the good choice… ✌🏼
Sick playing
They both sound great. The 10 lug seems to have a bit more "pop" and feels *maybe* a bit more constrained, the 8 lug sounds a bit more open with *maybe* a bit more "pang". The difference in context isn't as big as pretty much any other variable though. I love these videos, but I don't understand why so much time is devoted to the room mic sound. I get that our ears aren't right next to a drum when it's being hit, but room mics don't sound like what we hear in a room either. They add great context to a full mix, but I always find myself jumping over that part of these videos. I'll bet I'm not the only one. Please take that as constructive criticism only though. No shade intended at all. I think you guys do an amazing job with these videos!
I have a 5 x 14 and a 61/2 x14. I know it’s apples and oranges but keep in mind 8 lug any drum the smallest adjustment either up or down has greater effect than in a 10 lug
Both great, but the winner for me is that kick. So big, punchy, full and round.
8-lug sounds really good. I like 10’s because the tuning seems to be a bit better.
Ringing drums are the bane of my existence. Why would I buy a ringer on purpose? By this time, we've all heard the story of Al Jackson, Jr. taping his wallet to his snare head. He did pretty good for himself. Well, except for that whole getting murdered thing. Give me the 10 lug, thank you very much.
And forgive me but "Ah, the civilians won't notice the difference anyway" is not the proper attitude as far as I'm concerned. We've all said it in the heat of battle to make ourselves feel better but 'sounding just good enough to get over on the public' seems like a fairly miserable thing to aspire to.
Both are really amazing. I’ll own one someday.
I'd probably love playing the 8 more, but for recording probably the 10. Both are obviously great sounding.
Wow! Where I heard the greatest difference, was @ 6:03. I love how the 8 lugs sings. The 10 is definitely tighter sounding.
10 lugs Is like 8 with muffling.
Like for Toms you can muffle the sound as much as you want but you can't do the opposite except for some tuning.
You can definitely hear the difference. Both sound great but I prefer the 10 lug. Please fix the graphics -laboratory not labratory (it distracted me thinking about it through the video).
Once again, superb video DCP! Keep 'em coming!
I've been playing the 10 lug 6.5 X 14 Black Beauty for 25 years. The 8 lug version definitely sounds more open and full to me. Both sounded good, but the 8 lug drum does have a bit more open sound.
10 lug sound a little bit lower in pitch then the 8
One question. Was there a difference in the stick response from the feel of the head.? We can hear clear differences. What I feel in 10 lug snares is a hair stiffer head - ( which I prefer)
did you- do you? Anybody-
Beuhler???
Very similar in sound. 8 lug has more over tone and decay. 10 lug’s decay is shorter.
I think the eight lug has the more classic Ludwig tone I’ve come to know and love. Slightly more “Bonhamesque” I guess the true comparison Im considering is The black beauty to the supraphonic
Surely all that engraving markedly changed the sound from stock?!
engraving the shell would change the sound
Hey Joe you got to do the Black Beauty comparison for you first video? You lucky dog you!! Good for you brother.
Thanks so much for doing this! Really, really helpful! ;) I think I'm on the side of the 10 lug personally...
Wow! 8-lug all the way! I USED to be a 10-lug drummer until now!
I like the 10 for sure.
Im digging the 8 lug. Sounds more balanced with more color. Love the crack of the 10 but feel the 8 would sit better in a recorded mix. The 10's crack might be better live for more cut. Both sound fantastic though.
I was considering the 8 lug, but I thought the 10 lug had the sound I'd want.
10 lug is the one. it has clarity
I don't know, I thought I heard more of a focused 'smack' out of the 10, and that's something I like in a snare. I noticed it mostly at the A/B 'hard hits' at the very end. It's hard to be sure though in a youtube vid.
Is the designer kit in the back ground ..Medium maple or Birch?
Prefer the tightness of the 10.
Prefer Ludwig Bronze to both.
they don't sound much better than a 6.5 Blackrolite.
Both sounding fantastic, but yeh the 8 lug seems just a tad more open and musical. I want both! 😂 I like the tuning, do you know the tunebot settings you used? I might hone in on that. Keep up the great work guys 👊🏻
DrumFace Top D4, bottom G4
@@tinterlande thanks! That's generally where I tune my snares anyway... maybe time for a black beauty cos mine don't sound like that, haha! Better get saving....
Hi joe!
Watched it only once... I immediately thought the 8 lug drum had a bit more ring to it.
The 10 Lug is that coveted Black Beauty Sound.
10 lug Black Beauty for me please! Needs no wrapping.
the ten is more sensitive under tension, more there but the 8 sounds darker and more pleasing or calm, with the same sonic undertone, both tidy and will suit diff songs, so hard hearing drums alone, maybe shoot a vid with a bass player gut, get the dunnetts and black irons out again x