Keystone Badge Black Beauties made in Monroe had bronze shells until 1994 when Ludwig reintroduced the brass shells. So this is probably a bronze shell.
Also, you'll notice that brass shells Monroe batch, got rid of the muffling knob. I can attest that you actually have one of the best Bronze black beauty built. Is the 1st batch of Bronze when Ludwig was sold to Conn Selmer.
Thanks Nick. Once again proving,i want a Black Beauty. My day will come! I have the LM402 and it is still my favorite snare. The BB is so much smoother. With the lack of overtones and ringing, i can see why its been used on so many recordings. But for classic rock, I am grabbing the Supra every time.
I have both and an Acrolite and a Black Magic and numerous other vintage and modern snares both metal and wood and i always seem to get back to the Black Beauty which i bough from Dennis at The Long Island Drum Centre in 1992. Thousands of gigs and recordings and many trips across the Atlantic its still my go to drum for most playing and recording situations.
Next Ludwig purchase will be a Hammered Supraphonic. Love all my Black Beauties but my favorite are the hammered versions. Have a couple Supraphonics but not a hammered one.
Would love your demo with the heads muted or paded lilke you would do in most if not all situations, especially in the studio. The Black Beauty was warm, fat and dry. No BOING like the 402 unpadded. I have both drums, so it's hard to play anything else. I don't think anyone would play the 402 without something on the head. A one inch (richie) ring on the head makes it sound perfect. I've literally recorded hundreds of songs with these two drums. More with the Black Beauty cause it's so versatile - pop, rock, metal, country. I've done it all with the Black Beauty.
That's a great idea! To be honest though, in most if not all situations I setup my snares in a medium-high or high tunings just like this video. It really comes down to the sound needed for the song
In this particular comparison I prefer the Supraphonic but I would still go for the Black Beauty the way I tune it in comparison to the Supraphonic! Both are great tho!!! Thanks for the Vid!!! 👍
It very well could be. The emperor coated is 2 ply 7 mil each, where the CS dot is 1 ply 10 mil with a 5 mil dot in the middle. I always felt a 2 ply head choked a snare out, where a 1 ply really got the sound I wanted. I like the CS dot when I want a bit dampening without choking the drum like a 2 ply does. Give the CS dot a try, maybe it gives you a sound you prefer in a higher tuning.
The new flat black BB’s sound fantastic. They’re dryer than the nickel plated BB’s and they’re easier to dial in with less overtones. I’m all about my Supraphonic, Acrolites and Copperphonic too. Also, don’t sleep on the 70s era Slingerland Buddy Rich Sound King brass 6.5x14. I own two and it’s an incredible snare.
I keep the bottom head the same throughout - a "table-top" tension so I can get a quick snare response. Low tuning was slightly tighter than finger tight, then I matched every lug point to be the same pitch. From there, every tuning is about a 1/4 turn on each tension rod from one tuning to the next
Have an LM400. A LM402 and a 5 inch Acrolyte . Im 63 and played them all. I think the only drums with that kind of MOJO is my 5.5 inch steam bent RADIOKING. LOVE LUDWIG STUFF!
Well done! I own two Supraphonics 5x14 and a 6.5x14 just like this. I’ve never owned a Black Beauty in all my years of playing. I will say, based off of this, I prefer the sound of the Black Beauty. It’s got a slightly more warmer sound, which is more to my liking….and I’m a high to cranked tuner. Thanks for the demos. Guess I need to go out and get me a Black Beauty huh? lol 🥁🤘
I have never played a Black Beauty but if it is like other brass snares then that means its a pretty heavy drum. And my LM-402 is chrome over aluminum with triple flange hoops which is very light... So this puts them WORLDS apart and no video will truly show what that means. A heavy drum, in my experience, does not respond to lighter playing anything like a lighter weight drum and that is what makes the LM402 so unique. It is so versatile and can handle so many types of gigs and feels so nice when you need something that will sound great even at lighter playing, or with "quieter" sticks like brushes, or rods.. the broomsticks sound amazing even at low volume... nothing compares. It's so responsive to the lightest touches and still sounds so full and great when heavier drums won't come to life until a certain velocity wakes them up... It's limitation is harder, louder playing styles, but only at extremes. In a rack full of snares, the LM402 is one of the few snares that truly has something unique to offer. And if the BB is a heavier brass drum, then I completely agree that they would absolutely compliment each other because they completely cover each's short-comings... if you can even say they have any.
the Supra has a tinnier / thinner sound While still a great drum I choose (and chose) a Black Beauty. Also have a Hammered chrome over brass Gretsch that sings pretty nice. I put Die Cast rims on both.
I'll never be able to choose between this two, my BB gets the call more often just because I personally prefer the brass tone, however aluminum Snare drums are very close in choice for me so I just flip a coin lol.. then there's the bronzephonic lol
I just bought a brand new 6.5 LM-402 two weeks ago!😊 ludwig still makes them just as great as they always do. Both black beauty and LM-402 sounds the same. Both drums have a similar design. I guess it depends upon the shell. I have a new 8 supralite and in person, the supralite doesn't disappoint. Although bigger than the LM-402, the difference is small which makes the supralite an excellent bargain. To prove a point, I'm going to record my band using the supralite and no one can tell. 🤭
I am about to pull the trigger on a used one. Only a couple years old. Guys I’ve talked with said it’s not so much the year but the heads, wires and tune. Love a vintage one but they just aren’t around in my area
You can't go wrong with any of the drums you mentioned! The LM402 is an aluminum shell, where the black beauty is brass (if it's a current drum) - there's going to be slight sound differences just due to the alloy of each drum. Now the supralite - those are great drums, especially for the price. I've been eyeing up an 8X14 because they're pretty affordable at the moment.
I just sold my black beauty. Not by choice. It was like losing my best friend. Only quality snare I owned in 40 yrs of drumming. A " B" stock. Nothing special about it except for being the greatest sounding instrument I've ever owned. 😢
Man I bought a Canopus BB/nickel brass 10 lug snare and man it’s 1.5mm thick and is prolly my favorite snare I got at the moment, bout the same price a a Ludwig BB, definitely check that snare out yall. Tip top, wish they made an 8 lug one tho
@ My bad, it’s 1.5mm, lol still a little thicker than a Ludwig BB. Still worth checkin out!! Yea that would be insane if it was 2.5!! No die cast hoops unfortunately
Keystone Badge Black Beauties made in Monroe had bronze shells until 1994 when Ludwig reintroduced the brass shells. So this is probably a bronze shell.
A few others said the same thing in my last video. I had it backwards - I though B stamp was brass and BR was bronze. Appreciate the clarification!
@@NickCostaMusicI believe at first they used „B“ for Bronze and later „BZ“ to make it less confusing… but it‘ s still confusing 😅
Also, you'll notice that brass shells Monroe batch, got rid of the muffling knob. I can attest that you actually have one of the best Bronze black beauty built. Is the 1st batch of Bronze when Ludwig was sold to Conn Selmer.
Disappointed every black beauty I've looked at was shell being not level when set on a level surface
True those are the only ones I NEED... but for some reason I have several more LOL!!!!
You and me both 🤣
Thanks Nick. Once again proving,i want a Black Beauty. My day will come! I have the LM402 and it is still my favorite snare. The BB is so much smoother. With the lack of overtones and ringing, i can see why its been used on so many recordings. But for classic rock, I am grabbing the Supra every time.
You can't go wrong with a black beauty in your collection! You already have the LM402, and when you get the BB you'll be able to cover any style!
I have the Black Beauty, and I love it. One moon gel and it has such a wonderful, dry crack. Need to get the Supraphonic next.
Drumming, like life itself, is NOT only about "needs" but also WANTS, VARIETY, CHOICES, FUN, and INDIVIDUALITY.
Totally!
I have both and an Acrolite and a Black Magic and numerous other vintage and modern snares both metal and wood and i always seem to get back to the Black Beauty which i bough from Dennis at The Long Island Drum Centre in 1992. Thousands of gigs and recordings and many trips across the Atlantic its still my go to drum for most playing and recording situations.
The only two snares I need are Yamaha stage custom steel 14x6,5 and Premier 35.
I just got Lm402 and my god its beast.
Next Ludwig purchase will be a Hammered Supraphonic. Love all my Black Beauties but my favorite are the hammered versions. Have a couple Supraphonics but not a hammered one.
Can you hear a difference between hammered and non-hammered? Some friends say they're a bit drier sounding
Just got one its a amazing instrument. What a beast of a snare drum. I use it on my live kit!
Would love your demo with the heads muted or paded lilke you would do in most if not all situations, especially in the studio. The Black Beauty was warm, fat and dry. No BOING like the 402 unpadded. I have both drums, so it's hard to play anything else. I don't think anyone would play the 402 without something on the head. A one inch (richie) ring on the head makes it sound perfect. I've literally recorded hundreds of songs with these two drums. More with the Black Beauty cause it's so versatile - pop, rock, metal, country. I've done it all with the Black Beauty.
That's a great idea! To be honest though, in most if not all situations I setup my snares in a medium-high or high tunings just like this video. It really comes down to the sound needed for the song
I bought a gretsch cast aluminum snare drum
That's the snare everybody needs ...
I've played ludwigs but this snare is absolutely incredible
I haven't played one, though it sounds like you found the drum that you prefer! What's the size of the drum?
@@NickCostaMusic 14 x 6.5
I’ve got the Gretsch Bell Brass 6.5 and it’s the best snare I’ve ever owned.
Agreed but... don't forget about the bronze! it's the gem of the Ludwig line.
Totally is! I love the rocker bronze I got recently, though I'd really like to get my hands on a acro-bronze !
In this particular comparison I prefer the Supraphonic but I would still go for the Black Beauty the way I tune it in comparison to the Supraphonic! Both are great tho!!! Thanks for the Vid!!! 👍
Totally understand! What made you gravitate towards the supraphonic in this vid?
Appreciate you following along, and leaving comments🥁
I have both. I REALLY prefer the Supraphonic.
Nice! What makes the supraphonic stand out more to you than the black beauty?
@@NickCostaMusic I think it breaths a bit more, it sounds a bit fuller IMHO. Still I like the warmth and tight crack of the BB.
Supraphonic ! Played them since 1967 !
Must be the batter heads, i typically dont like hi tuning but both of these sound right tuned hi. Maybe remo emporor tensions differently?
It very well could be. The emperor coated is 2 ply 7 mil each, where the CS dot is 1 ply 10 mil with a 5 mil dot in the middle. I always felt a 2 ply head choked a snare out, where a 1 ply really got the sound I wanted. I like the CS dot when I want a bit dampening without choking the drum like a 2 ply does.
Give the CS dot a try, maybe it gives you a sound you prefer in a higher tuning.
I lived and died by my Supraphonic until I got a Noble & Cooley Alloy Classic, 14x6, and now I rarely take the Supra out of the case.
Noble & Cooley make fantastic drums - I remember a college friend having one and it was super heavy!
The new flat black BB’s sound fantastic. They’re dryer than the nickel plated BB’s and they’re easier to dial in with less overtones. I’m all about my Supraphonic, Acrolites and Copperphonic too. Also, don’t sleep on the 70s era Slingerland Buddy Rich Sound King brass 6.5x14. I own two and it’s an incredible snare.
That's what I've heard, and they look FANTASTIC with the single flanged hoops and claws. You got a great collection there, @vincenzoa2929 !
Wow really interesting, how did you tune that medium tunning in the BB?
I keep the bottom head the same throughout - a "table-top" tension so I can get a quick snare response. Low tuning was slightly tighter than finger tight, then I matched every lug point to be the same pitch. From there, every tuning is about a 1/4 turn on each tension rod from one tuning to the next
Have an LM400. A LM402 and a 5 inch Acrolyte . Im 63 and played them all. I think the only drums with that kind of MOJO is my 5.5 inch steam bent RADIOKING. LOVE LUDWIG STUFF!
That's a great collection! I'm a big fan of steam bent solid drums - such a clean tone in my opinion
Well done!
I own two Supraphonics
5x14 and a 6.5x14 just like this.
I’ve never owned a Black Beauty in all my years of playing. I will say, based off of this, I prefer the sound of the Black Beauty. It’s got a slightly more warmer sound, which is more to my liking….and I’m a high to cranked tuner.
Thanks for the demos.
Guess I need to go out and get me a Black Beauty huh? lol 🥁🤘
doesn't matter to me
The BB clearly has a more deep, clear and focused tone than the Supra in all of the tuning ranges.
Totally does - do you think that's more of the shell alloy, finish plating, or a combo of the 2?
@@NickCostaMusic yes there's some magical voodoo
in the ingredients of 1 seamless 2 brass 3 nickel plating
@@NickCostaMusic I believe it may be a combination of the 2. Btw Nick I really enjoy your TH-cam channel content and your solid playing/demoing.
Would like to hear a side by side ludwig superphonic, amd tama starphonic aluminum.
That's a great suggestion, thank you @davidsuprenant2782 ! Now I gotta get my hands on a tama starphonic aluminum...
I have never played a Black Beauty but if it is like other brass snares then that means its a pretty heavy drum. And my LM-402 is chrome over aluminum with triple flange hoops which is very light... So this puts them WORLDS apart and no video will truly show what that means. A heavy drum, in my experience, does not respond to lighter playing anything like a lighter weight drum and that is what makes the LM402 so unique. It is so versatile and can handle so many types of gigs and feels so nice when you need something that will sound great even at lighter playing, or with "quieter" sticks like brushes, or rods.. the broomsticks sound amazing even at low volume... nothing compares. It's so responsive to the lightest touches and still sounds so full and great when heavier drums won't come to life until a certain velocity wakes them up... It's limitation is harder, louder playing styles, but only at extremes. In a rack full of snares, the LM402 is one of the few snares that truly has something unique to offer. And if the BB is a heavier brass drum, then I completely agree that they would absolutely compliment each other because they completely cover each's short-comings... if you can even say they have any.
I have both a vintage Supraphonic and new Rogers wood Dynasonic, both 14x 5”.
Close in preference..
Oh nice, how is the new dynasonic? I heard good things about them
@@NickCostaMusic
Yes, it’s very nice…
Little between them, however, I’d still go with the Supraphonic, if I could only have one..
the Supra has a tinnier / thinner sound While still a great drum I choose (and chose) a Black Beauty. Also have a Hammered chrome over brass Gretsch that sings pretty nice. I put Die Cast rims on both.
I bet the die-cast really helps with providing a more direct sound, and great rim shot/cross stick
@@NickCostaMusic agree! updating the throw offs on yours is for me ....mandatory
That black beauty just has that sinking undertone. Both amazing but the BB 🤤
Black beauty all the way I've never regretted it 7 years on
black beauty for me
What snare heads did you use for the black beauty?
Both snares the same heads, Remo CS Dot coated on the top, and an Ambassador Snare Side on the bottom
I have a Black Beauty and an Acrolite. Does that count?
Totally!
I'll never be able to choose between this two, my BB gets the call more often just because I personally prefer the brass tone, however aluminum Snare drums are very close in choice for me so I just flip a coin lol.. then there's the bronzephonic lol
I love my bronze rocker - such an amazing tone for a "cheaper" model drum. I agree with you - you can't go wrong with any of them!
I just bought a brand new 6.5 LM-402 two weeks ago!😊 ludwig still makes them just as great as they always do. Both black beauty and LM-402 sounds the same. Both drums have a similar design. I guess it depends upon the shell. I have a new 8 supralite and in person, the supralite doesn't disappoint. Although bigger than the LM-402, the difference is small which makes the supralite an excellent bargain. To prove a point, I'm going to record my band using the supralite and no one can tell. 🤭
I am about to pull the trigger on a used one. Only a couple years old. Guys I’ve talked with said it’s not so much the year but the heads, wires and tune. Love a vintage one but they just aren’t around in my area
You can't go wrong with any of the drums you mentioned! The LM402 is an aluminum shell, where the black beauty is brass (if it's a current drum) - there's going to be slight sound differences just due to the alloy of each drum.
Now the supralite - those are great drums, especially for the price. I've been eyeing up an 8X14 because they're pretty affordable at the moment.
It should really be mentioned that the 5 inch depth model of both of these snares are totally different animals from the 6.5
Very true! Way more direct, and still both sound fantastic!
I would add the bronze shell to that list....
In my last video, some folks were saying this black beauty could be a bronze shell. Either way, You're right - bonze is another great sound!
I gotta agree with these being the best metal snare that isn’t a $15k Bell Brass
Absolutely! There's a reason they're so expensive, though for the average working drummer - either one of these will do
@NickCostaMusic I've had the 402 for decades. I'll buy other snare drums I briefly fall in love with, but 2 weeks later, that 402 is back with the kit
The Supraphonic has a slightly higher, brighter pitch.
Sure does - the chrome over aluminum gives a little more bite for sure
Black beauty
Pork pie Big Black Brass or BOB is great snare as well comes very close to Black Beauty. IMHO.
Good morning!
Hey @wadedizon9890 - Great to see you tuning in again, thank you!
I think i like the Supraphonic more. I think.
Can't go wrong with either that's for sure. What made it stand out a bit more to your ear?
I 've had a BB and sold it. I used my other snares more. Not Ludwig snares. Sorry guys ☺️
That's ok - sounds like you have the sound you prefer!
BLACK BEAUTY hands down.
I have a TAMA STEEL. MY BUDGET. $$$ LUDWIG BEST. HANDS DOWN ❤
Ludwig FTW!
I just sold my black beauty. Not by choice. It was like losing my best friend. Only quality snare I owned in 40 yrs of drumming. A " B" stock. Nothing special about it except for being the greatest sounding instrument I've ever owned. 😢
So sorry to hear - hope you can get another one soon
the Supra sounded better from the get go
BB all day, all nite*
COPPERPHONIC HAMMERED IMPERIAL LUG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Copper is a great sound too - a little more direct and deeper tone. Which size do you prefer?
Man I bought a Canopus BB/nickel brass 10 lug snare and man it’s 1.5mm thick and is prolly my favorite snare I got at the moment, bout the same price a a Ludwig BB, definitely check that snare out yall. Tip top, wish they made an 8 lug one tho
That's double the thickness of the black beauty - pretty wild! Does it have die cast hoops too?
@ My bad, it’s 1.5mm, lol still a little thicker than a Ludwig BB. Still worth checkin out!! Yea that would be insane if it was 2.5!! No die cast hoops unfortunately
All good - appreciate the info. I’ll have to check it out!