This is the best and most balanced explanation of Zionism I could find, that’s also accessible and coherent. I’ve been struggling with explaining it to my friends, I’ll send them this link. Thanks man. Am Israel chai.
Actually, if you really want an explanation of Zionism and its history, the following is the best and most balanced explanation: th-cam.com/video/SrUiS2G4Lms/w-d-xo.html
It's a nice explanation but not entirely accurate. It's true Zionism is quite old, from about 1860's. At the time there were 2 major movements, Zionism and Bundism. The Bund also wanted a safe jewish existence but they believed this would be achieved by assimilation, autonomy and socialism. The Bund was much more popular for most of the time. Only in the 1930's it became clearer that jews will not be able to survive by assimilation.
It is a gaslighting explanation of zionism. It may be true that Zionism had earlier roots that did not call for the colonization and ethnically cleansing of Palestine with the goal of forming an ethnostate. But these other versions did not survive. What we call Zionism is the political movement cemented by Herzl and others at the end of the 19th century that culminated with the establishment of the ethnostate of Israel. That is what everyone, including Zionists, accept. His version of "we just want a place where the jewish people can be safe" is just a nice sentiment that everyone can agree with, and the motivation for a lot of other competing ideologies and movements within jewish culture. What sets them apart from one another is how they want to achieve that goal. So what is special about zionism is not the underlying completely uncontroversial sentiment that jewish people deserve to be safe, but the actual proposed method for achieving that goal, which was the creation of an ethnostate in Palestine.
But none of what he said is true, are you fine with that? Go look this book up: The Empty Wagon by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro. The book is a compendium of the real origin of Zionism.
@@lol311the Jews are one of the groups most affected by hate crimes. To this day, they are discriminated against and tormented, with or without Israel firing a single bullet.
@@HOMiE-Rugsthen maybe end the occupation, siege, and military rule over Palestinians. Maybe stop forcefully dispossessing and displacing people and committing ethnic cleansing. My entire family was uprooted and forced out of their homes multiple times by Israel. And by the way, we are Christian Palestinians, so it’s not just Muslims or about religion. Go live in the occupied territories or Gaza for a few months if you want to see the unfortunate reality of how Israel treats “Arabs and Muslims” (or give us the dignity of calling us what we are, Palestinians. 👍🏽
@@jasonlobel4586 How can you justify eviction of Palestinian from their homes and force them , their children and their future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? That is the missing piece in his response.
If European Jews insist upon having their own state, it should be in Europe, not at the expense of another people. Especially when that people gave refuge to the Jews when they were facing persecution from Christians in Europe.
Your definition of zionism is not what has been put into practice. And talking about a state is very different from talking about a place where one can live in peace.
It's simple: you see those people who lived there for thousands of years and have keys and deeds and actual DNA proof alongside actual footage and culture and authentic cuisine? Yeah? Give the land back to them! People from anywhere else? Bon Voyage!
Palestine was hardly populated. In Gaza alone today live more people than in Palestine in 1880. And do you really believe, all those arabs origin from this region?
@@ThomasVWorm "Palestine was hardly populated" tells me everything about your knowledge of population growth and how you approach the subject here! Is it the old "A land without a people for blah blah blah"? 😏 Also, you know that Arab are not a race, don't you? Sudanese and Lebanese are both Arabs, buddy! Identity might change, DNA doesn't! Think of it this way: there were no such thing as being "British" in the 1600s! YKW, forget everything I said, watch 2 - very short - videos on TH-cam: 1- Judaism is just a religion not a race, a people or an ethnicity, Yaakov Shapiro 2- Palestine... Fully Furnished by Amer Zahr. ... then come back again and repeat what you said above! Go ahead, I trust you have a thirst for knowledge, not just trolling!
@@ThomasVWorm Than you for acknowledging that there was/is a "Palestine"! 😁 Also, in 1880, there was less than 500k in Lebanon, and less than 300k in Jordan. Do you see a trend here, buddy? How many Israelis were there, not only in Palestine, but in the entire world, in 1880? A big, huge, goose egg...ZERO! 'nuff said!
@@SaeedMSR in 1880 there lived about 13'000-20'000 jews in Palestine. They were never fully gone. And the way you count them: there were no Palestinians too.
only its wrong. The earliest political Zionst was Rabbi Alkalai who called for a return to Zion (with the establishment of a bank or company like a railroad company.... his ideas were repeated by Hertzl fifty years later.) The idea was not territorialism (a jewish safe haven anywhere) but a return to our land in the land of Israel.
@@1czechit1 The idea of Jews returning to the holy land is a very old idea. Much of a typical Jewish prayer service is dedicated to the sanctification of that land.
In the end this is about humans. I'm heartbroken for the palestinian people in Gaza. But I can also feel for Israelis. We don't need more hate in this conflict... It feels like it will never stop.
How can it stop when you force millions of Palestinians , their children and future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? And the west is complicit in this providing diplomatic and military support to the Israelis. Why can't you have equal rights, for Jews, christians and Muslims? The Zionist will never agree to this.
It’s can stop anytime when Palestinians choose to stop the violence. Before the first intifada there where no checkpoints no borders no walls mostly chill everyone could go everywhere.
@@gisch9393 The problem is the Israelis are so indoctrinated in their upbringing that majority consider themselves as special,"chosen" people and hence feel entitled to all the land, always potray themselves as the victims hence never the aggressor and they consider the Palestinians as less than human. They will never agree in granting the Palestinians their freedom.
Best thing you said: "I'm against states being religious". Such a shame Britain didn't leave Palestine with a secular democracy. Then everyone there could have lived in peace regardless of religion and ethnicity. It's not too late. It's the only way forward.
Israel was created by socialists, many of whom were full-blown atheists. The Arabs were and continue to be far more driven by faith than the Israel that existed for many years. The number of religious fanatics in Israel has increased, which means that like Hamas and other Islamist groups, they are backed by God. And when you believe that, there is no compromise.
@@ThomasVWorm Islamism as a political movement is a much later invention, funded by the US and its allies, to fight communism. Most Arab countries at that time were nationalists, and there is little reason to think Palestinians would have been any different.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Hamas emerged in the late 80s. Look at the Arab states around Israel, like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. Were they Islamic states? The whole islamism being in the way of Palestinians having their own state is a canard.
@@Shahak-EN *The Zios have killed 40'000 and injured 90'000 Palestinians.* *You just forgot a small point, that they Zios have been fighting and killing the Natives since the beginning of mass immigration to occupy "THE LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE, FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND".* *EXCEPT THE LAND WAS NOT WITHOUT PEOPLE!*
Zionism is an ideology, specially the political Zionism, which has evolved in an extremist ideology nowdays! As all wrong and extremist ideologies will come to an end sooner or later! So people can live in peace hopefully! Nevertheless Israeli society will have some ethical and moral issues to address in the future!
You think all the people are extremist, like the people Netanyahu relies on to stay in power? You are aware, I hope, that the people who were slaughtered on Oct. 7 were more likely than anyone to want to peacefully share the land with the Palestinians. Hamas knew that. It didn't matter.
What the situation is making complex is that there are several groups on both sides on that small piece of land. There are people who believe the land is theirs and nobody else's (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want to live in peace together in one state (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want a two state solution (Palestinians and Israeli), etcetera, etcetera. But none of those groups is capable to compromise or project the way to achieve this goal where everybody (or the large majority) benifits. I condone any violence and oppression, doesn't matter what side. But to be honest, the battle is not fair and Palestinians are more of a victim at this point. The solution has to come of Israeli side to be willing to help their own neighbors.
I don't believe the people who believe the land is solely their can cooperate or reach any kind of negotiation with those who want to share or to have two separate countries. The first group are the extremists with the loudest voices (sadly) who are covering everything anyone else is saying
Let's be clear here. The ones not willing to compromise are the Israeli. The Palestinian perspective is entirely understandable and the fact that they accept a two state solution already shows how much they are willing to compromise. The ones who are denying that reality can be found on the Israeli side.
2:46 the difference is that Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to it's native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
All of this 🙏 it’s fucking sad that when someone says “hey how about we talk about solutions that don’t involve unaliving the people of either side” they’ll be either called a terrorist or a Nazi 🥴 make it make sense… Thanks for your words. It really should be self explanatory.
I can appreciate that sentiment. However, the comedian is gaslighting everyone when he equates this sentiment with "zionism". Zionism is what created the ethnostate of Israel, a *state for the Jewish people*, in a land that originally had only a 1-3% jewish presence. How do you think this was achieved? Zionism's goal is the creation and maintenance of this ethnostate, *not peaceful coexistence".
Important to add that Zionism is more than just about Jews having a state for the Jewish people but also to make the return of Jews to the Promised land of Judah. And this is also not about religion, being a Jew is your nationalism, Jews are a people, an identity (call it Israelite to wrap your head around it).
Sure. But that is not what Zionism is. It's about founding a ethnostate in the lands that belonged to other people, and dispossessing this people in the process.
I mean yeah the Jews should be able to have a country, the problem is usually if you want one people to have land you need to take it from someone else and that someone is very rarely happy about it. Especially when you started out telling them you were going to let them govern their own territory after generations of rule by a foreign born empire and then be like “psyche!” and give that territory to someone else.
If Xionism is about living in peace you can do that without genociding or occupying other nations. And if you read Theodore Hertzel's writings you will know that replacing and diasporing the local people was always part of the plan. You can have your own definition but it doesn't reflect the current ruling or the previous founding notion Xionism was built on and defined by.
it is not quite accurate. It should include 'within historical Palestine' or however you want to name the area, which complicates matters substantially, because it involves the very real possibility (some might say inevitability) that the creation of that land for the jews would be at the expense of the many people(s) living there who up until that point (certainly collectively) formed the majority, whereas the jews had been a minority, a portion of those Jews were even there because of the Zionist movement itself. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the root idea of Zionism, but there is a high possibility of that project not being fair to others and it's the failure to avoid that unfairness, by the leaders of not just Israel & the Palestinians but by the whole world, is what people take issue with and why Zionism has a very bad reputation and understandably so. Even a large portion of Jews disagree with Zionism, for political, religious, social or other reasons. Distilling complicated issues down to one liners doesn't serve understanding, in my opinion. It mainly serves misunderstanding. The age of memes is not very helpful in my opinion. It can help to introduce novices to a subject, but it requires context and further explanation. A world where people just ping pong one liners at each other is a world that will bear few solutions. my €0,02
Thank you Shahak for acknowledging Palestinian rights to exist .. I wasn’t a Zionist but if being a Zionist means an establishment to a Palestinian state too then I’m a Zionist ☮️🙏🏻
When debating people online, I tend to find that the only reasonable people on both sides this issue are the ones from the Israeli and Palestinian sides. Everyone else seems to think this issue is not super complex and can be summed up as one side being good and one side being evil. Both sides have a near endless list of ways they have been wronged and things they themselves did which were quite bad. It is complex!
Not complex at all. Like any long historical process, there are lots of intricate details one can dive into if one wants to, but at its root, this is a simple land conflict. Some European jews decided (for a variety of reasons) to establish an ethnostate in Palestine, who at the time only had a 1-3% jewish population (and did not want a state). This movement got the backing of the British empire. The colonists managed to ethnically cleanse half the indigenous population, and founded their ethnostate. Then, that ethnostate militarily occupied the remaining lands of the indigenous population, but did not absorve this population. The indigenous population has been resisting their occupation and overall dispossession ever since. Not complex at all.
Listen I'm against the aid, but I'm pro conversation. I love your comedy and I think listening to different voices and opinions is great! (not the people who believe sending death threats to random singers because of their nationality is a good idea)
@@acabjane307 Because I know it's going to Hamas, and even whatever little isn't, is going to a majority of people who want to see me dead at all costs. You don't feed your enemies. I feel bad for them but they are so brainwashed and my tax money shouldn't go to be helping those who are trying to murder me.
Just like Canada is a colonialist endeavor, so is Israel. In order to carve a Jewish state from land where Jews did not hold the majority of population, that requires displacement - just as the Inuit were displaced by European settlers in Canada. If the rationale is that other religions get to have religious states so Judaism should also have one, are those other religious states true democracies that respect the equal rights of all? No. Anglo European settlers got to commit a genocide in North America, so it’s only fair for Jews to be able to do something like that as well doesn’t make Zionism seem so attractive. To those not blinded by the Zionist bias, Islamic State and Jewish state seem like very similar ideas but different flags.
Anglo-European settlers did already have a country. The jews do not commit a genocide. This is the plan of the Gaza strip and their leaders from the Hamas. In Israel a palestinian Israeli can be judge at the supreme court. To give you an idea, what genocide means: here in Germany between 1933-1945 we had only one position available to jews: a place in the gas chamber.
10 years ago I would agree. But it has been proven that there can never be a 2 state-solution of the current land-strip. Adjust to increase the borders of Israel, especially Jerusalem and every central area, move some borders-areas to Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and that is it. Enough is enough.
Wow, impressive, you solved it so quickly! A pity that such a talent for international politics lies hidden in TH-cam comments and not the UN or something.
True, enough is enough, the Israeli apartheid state has destroyed any chance of a two-state solution with its aggressive colonial policy. The only justifiable solution is the abolition of Israeli apartheid and the ethno-state in favor of a one-state solution in which everyone lives with equal rights and the indigenous population has the full right of return
@@simonpantermuller6997 the only apartheid states are the apartheid muslims state surrounding Israel , in my city alone I can drive 10 minutes and find a mosque or a church , you don't know what apartheid is . On the other hand you can't enter mecca in saudi arabia if you are not muslim ,this is real apartheid , and you can't pray on temple mount if you are a Jew because of that stupid section in the agreement with jordan (which is by definition apartheid) . And if you're against Israel being "an ethno state" you should also be against Islamic and arab ethno states that actually have muslims and other ethnicities having more rights than other populations . Why don't you ask a one state for turks and kurds in turkey ? Or allawyian and kurds in syria ? Do you even know how many different ethnicities there are in some of these countries? Syria is an ethno state Iran is an ethno state Sudan is an ethno state Lebanon is an ethno state , Afghanistan is an ethno state And the list goes on and on *And all of these countries I've mentioned and others that are ethno states are also apartheid states. But you only care if it's a Jewish state . One state solution will be suicide with two populations which one of them is a hams /terrorist population is suicide! We can't have that!
@@Orange7825 apparently the talents working at the UN are telling us that antisemitic terrorism is just israels fault. So he could actually work there.
It's a land conflict. A bunch of Europeans decided to colonize yet another area of the world, and the indigenous population has been resisting ever since. It's not that complicated.
@@diogoalmeida6721 the arabs colonized it, they came from the Peninsula. Israel is in the Levant since almost 4000 years, 1000 years before any foot of arab or muslim. It is Israel's land since ever, they the indigenious there, yet that doesnt make the arabs less indigenious, and btw fasho Hamas are not resistance, nor rape. They are nazis.
@@diogoalmeida6721 and each jew and israeli in this world (including me) has its roots in the Levant, exactly there. We are not Europeans, not even white. We are ancient people. Please get your facts straight.
I understand your take on Zionism, and I often feel that people who support Zionism see Zionism the way you describe it. My objection is, this is only a partial description of what Zionism is and what it looks like in practice. The bit abt Zionism you leave out is that it’s the establishment of Jewish self determination *in Palestine*. Hertz, the inventor of Zionism publicly stated that no forced transfers of people would be necessary, however, in his diary and private letters he sent to friends he conceded that forced and violent transfer of people would be a necessary prerequisite for the establishment of the state. Beyond that, early supporters of Zionism explicitly argued that because Zionism was inherently a colonial project, they would need the protection of states such as the UK to fund their protection from angry indigenous Palestinians (this is before the first settlements were even established). Finally, Zionism (while not explicitly) implies that Palestinians aren’t indigenous to the land (which is where the homeland bit comes from). This is partly because Zionism predates genetic testing, and was created during a time where Europe defined states by their ethnic make up rather than their history. Because Palestinians identified as Arab, Zionists simply assume their ancestors migrated to the land after a major exodus of Jewish people. Which isn’t technically untrue, but misses out a key detail, plenty of those Arabs had children with Jewish families and Christian families that were originally Jewish but converted during the Roman Empire. As it turns out, Palestinians are equally the descendants of Israelites (Canaanites) as Israelis. This reality doesn’t fit in the Zionist perspective because it challenges the idea that someone with a particular ethnicity or religion has more of a right to the land. The problem Zionism has is the same problem that every colonial ideology has, exclusivity. Zionism wants the land exclusively for Jewish people, sure they can tolerate a small minority of Arabs as relatively well off 2nd class citizens but only insofar as they concede the land belongs to a single group of people, and that the Arabs don’t have too much political capital. If tomorrow Israel went “sorry for all of that killing and stealing land, Palestinians you get to live anywhere in the land and you get to vote in the election” that would be the end of Zionism, as the government would concede that Israelis don’t have an exclusive claim to land based on a “birth right”. And you wouldn’t a 2 state solution, you’d have a 1 state, where everyone has rights, you know, like other democratic countries.
As I say in the video, Zionism is older than Theodore Herzl and while many credit him as the founder of political Zionism, there are plenty of other forms of Zionism older than his that do not share all of Herzl‘s views and ideas.
@@Shahak-EN oh hey, thanks for your reply! I’ll look into older forms of Zionism that predate Herlz, and how that influences modern Israeli policy (if at all). Out of curiosity, how do you feel about a single state? As in, Israelis get to stay in their land with full rights along side Palestinians, + Israelis get access to Gaza and the West Bank, while Palestinians also get access to Israeli land (effectively opening everything up to everyone)?
@@saifalimuhannad2807 I feel like that's not a realistic solution right now. There's not enough trust and willingness on either sides for this to work. What happens with Hamas? What is the official language of Israel? Is it even called Israel? What about the risk of Jews becoming a minority again considering how that played out in Europe?
@@Shahak-EN ya you’re right, there are plenty of moving parts to establishing a single state. Beyond everything you mentioned, it wouldn’t be possible without the international community being involved in every step, which could be a difficult sell. I will try to address some of your concerns. One of the reasons why I like a single state solution is because of the current population make up of the land, it’s almost a 50/50 split between Israelis and Palestinians. The reason why that’s a good thing is because it means that neither side can vote in a party which prioritizes the other. So parties are forced to be moderate and concede to each other in hopes of winning elections. So no full blown Jewish or Arab/muslim parliament. Also I’m a big believer in contact theory, the more Palestinians and Israelis hang out with each other, the less likely they are to try and kill each other. There’s a reason why the British thought to separate the mosques from synagogs and churches during the first wave of migration, the people got along too much during the first wave of immigration. Secondly it avoids a violent disposition of the settlers in the West Bank, rather than forcing them all out, they get to stay and the people who lost their land are compensated somehow. This does mean amnesty for the settlers but I think that’s preferable over a war in the West Bank. Something like half the settlers are peaceful anyways. In terms of a language, I mean Canada has 2 state languages, Hebrew and Arabic do have some similarities, I think both should be a national language. Hamas (as well as other militia organizations) tend to become part of the military after a big change like this. The militias that help establish Israel for example became the IDF. Or as a condition of the agreement to have a single state, hamas ends its armed campaigns and decommission its weapons, like the IRA in Ireland. I think you’ll find that militias like hamas tend to stop existing when the circumstances that caused their existence are changed for the better. I don’t really care what the land is called, as long as everyone on it is free and not under threat. But it’s a valid concern. I know Rhodesia tried to get called rhodesia-Zimbabwe after the bush wars (I think). As it stands, I don’t like a 2 state solution because I feel that’s how we got here in the first place. It also is more unrealistic, part of the reason why you get hamas and lakud is that, the 2 groups are so isolated from each other and only meet up once every 2 years when they try to kill each other. That isolation only gets worse with a hard boarder not better. Secondly, what happens to the West Bank? The settlers can’t stay but if you try to move them it will almost certainly be violent. Not to mention that Israelis rely on the mound aquifer for fresh water which is in the West Bank. As it stands Israel takes over the mount aquifer and gives very little of it to Palestinians while making most of it undrinkable. Ok so the settlers stay? But then they commit acts of terror on Palestinians, or Palestinians retaliate which means idf gets involved which means more dead Palestinians. And like, the fuck is Gaza suppose to do on the other side? Ain’t no way it’ll be a part of the West Bank. Ya I don’t know, I prefer a single state over a 2 state.
@@Shahak-EN and none of them have become the political movement that ended up with the founding of Israel. It was the political zionism of Herzl and co. So that is what zionism means to most people. If you have a non-canonical definition, then maybe say it, instead of attempting to gaslight people.
I appreciate the fact that he has a sane view regarding the solution to the conflict (a Palestinian state), but a lot of the rest is highly questionable, and it shows how deeply ingrained zionist propaganda can be that his take is seen as a moderate one. Equating Zionism (a not very old movement, contrary what he said) with "wanting a country where jewish ppl can be safe" is patently false. If that were the case, then modern zionism would be advocating for mass immigration to the US, where jewish ppl have been able to flourish in peace and safety. Zionism has always been an European nationalistic movement. It is not about finding a place where the "jewish ppl can be safe", but rather founding *a national state for the jewish people*, and since the end of the 19th century, the location for that state has been identified as Palestine, where at the time only 1-3% of the population was jewish (and was also deeply anti-zionist btw). How does one make that happen? By taking the land from their inhabitants and driving them away. This is not a "very complicated conflict". It's a conflict about land. European jews arrived en masse in the span of some 30 years, some as settlers and some as refugees and drove the Palestinians off their land, with the full support of the largest and most powerful European power of the time (England). It's mind boggling that this guy's response to the Québecois Canadian who called him a colonizer was to huff and puff about how the Canadian was too. Well, there you go. You acknowledge that you took someone else's land (not that long ago either, my father is older than the State of Israel) and they want it back. Not that hard to understand. Now to the second point: why doesn't Israel simply give citizenship to all the Palestinians that it is currently militarily occupying? Because then the Israeli jews would be in the minority, and Israel was founded on the premise of being a national state *for the jewish people*, an ethnostate. There could be a single national state for all the inhabitants who call the land of Palestine/current state of Israel their home. This would be a multi-ethnic and religiously diverse country, perhaps even a liberal democracy. But it would not be Israel anymore, because it would not be *for the jewish people* alone. Hence, it cannot exist. Zionism is not a neutral stance. It is not about keeping jewish people safe. It a colonial project, one that sees having an ethnostate as a founding principle.
It's not complicated. It's a simple land dispute. The state of Israel was founded by ethnically cleansing the land it occupies from its indigenous population. The indigenous population has been trying to either get it back or at least trying not to lose more of it.
context is important. so is how people interpret a word like Zionism. disputing a definition doesn't really help move the situation forward. we should focus on intentions, morals, values, and human rights. what you said about the Israeli singers coming under threat is fair, they have nothing to do with the conflict and are innocent, just like all the civilians in Palestine and Israel that are caught in the crossfire of a war against an apartheid state. its the same story every time and it ALWAYS ends badly. all we can do is try our best to stop it happening again
You do realize you telling people what their own movement is about would be outright rejected for any other ethnic or racial group? Try telling the Black Lives Matter movement or the Native American tribes what they're about and see how far that gets you. There are violent settlers, and I not only don't support them - I think the entire idea of west bank settlements is anti-zionist at its core. You don't get to define me or my beliefs.
@@int0x2e if it’s your belief to oppress a certain group of people then we do get to define you. we define it as oppression. that’s exactly what the black lives matter movement is about - it’s not about about a new black world order as the racists like to believe. it’s about equal rights for black people which they don’t have under deep rooted systemic oppression. literally the same thing is going on in Isreal and so many other countries. at the heart of every movement are shared values. otherwise you don’t have a movement, you have an agenda to fuck some people over. even the native americans (also not a movement btw) had a culture of non-ownership of the land and valuing nature. this is respecting the ‘rights’ of the natural environment and i would be all for that if that’s where the discussion is headed. But it’s not. it’s caught up in vengeful ideologies about definitions and semantics which do nothing but cause more suffering.
@@yoezra i’ve never been to auschwitz but it’s clear what was going on… you should be more precise when contesting. be specific on what you disagree with otherwise you don’t have a point or argument
@@int0x2e my comment got banned so i’ll tldr if your movement is oppressing a minority, then it’s not a movement, it’s an agenda and it’s defined as oppression. black lives matter was a movement for equal rights for black people under deep rooted systematic oppression, not an agenda for a new world order all movements have shared values “native american” is not a movement, its a culture with values that are also shared by many
Yes, as a jewish person, i was taught exactly that about Zionism. How can zionism be about “occupying Palestine,” if Herzl was a modern zionist, ffrom the 1800s. It’s about peaceful coexistence where we aren’t unalived for being ethnically jewish
And the Zionism before the modern era - Rabbi Yehuda Halevi and Rambam in the 12th century, Ezra and Nehemiah in the 5th century (before Islam was created)... these are only the most famous names, but Zionism has always existed since the deportation and was formed as a national movement following the awakening of nationalism in Europe and the world
You were taught wrong. Read what the founders and luminaries of the zionist movement and founders of the state of Israel wrote. It was about the creation of an ethnostate. If peaceful coexistence followed, then great. If not, so be it. That was/is not the goal.
Too bad i get called a self hating Jew by a lot of Jews because I have literally the same opinion as you. It's frustrating because I mostly just try to pick the side of humanity, I'm not trying to get into extremes either way.
Very proud he said he is a zionism, it just mean jews want to live. And always make me crazy people so mad there is a jewish state when there are many muslims and christian states. Like its a big no no
You talk as if people can just say "now I want my state". It's not how it works. If Israel had been established in an unoccupied island somewhere, no one would care. The problem is that Israel was founded as a colonial project, with the help of a colonial power, via the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population. That is what people object to, with good reason.
@@diogoalmeida6721 If you open Pandora's box a lot of people around the world would owe the Jews living in Israel plenty. The Iraqi government owes me 20 million dollars. Plus the Jews bought the land from the British. and the only reason they were kicked out was that they tried to kill the Jews. If they hadn't attempted who knows maybe history would have been different. They were the ones who sided with Hitler, so they paid the price.
The unfollow in the DMs LMFAOOO I laughed at that. Good response to this question, especially about Zionism as the definition has definitely has gotten misconstrued over time.
@@itaymry You "support Zionism" yet don't know what the Talmud teaches...very nice. Ponder. Btw, the Upanishads are beautiful. May all sentient beings transcend suffering.
@@czouridesboy, you don’t understand English very well, do you? He did NOT ask what the Talmud is- he asked what YOU think it is! Understand the difference….?
This is so stupid. The whole blaming Canada, um the whole point of its happening now and things need to change. Not use the past as an excuse … Also complicated not one bit! People who actually looked into the history and saw how Israel became a country by illegal crime and the hijacking of British help
@@almoghadad856 it is a pithy accurate summary. What do you think it gets wrong? Was Israel not founded by ethnic cleansing the Palestinians? Did the British not create a lot of the conditions that allowed this to happen?
Israel was founded by war not "ethnic cleansing". and the British Aram embargoed Israel. After the Arab revolt in 1936 the British went against the Jews
@@almoghadad856 The ethnic cleansing was the goal of the war. Read Benny Morris' book on the conflict. It's all there. Yes, at times the British grew tired of the balancing act they created for themselves in cleaving Palestine into jewish and palestinian groups. During some time, they helped the jews, and then when that created too much tension with the local population, they scaled it back, and so on and so forth. It ended with Britain throwing the whole issue on the new formed UN's lap and the outcome we all know.
Not what Zionism means. Lots of movements and ideologies exist and have existed within Jewish culture that seek to answer how the jewish people can exist and thrive in peace in this world. Zionism is just one of them. What sets Zionism apart is exactly the fact that it proposes that the only way we can get "Jews living in peace and harmony" is by creating an ethnostate. In Palestine. Where only 1-3% of the population was Jewish at the time (and were not zionist either). Stop trying to make Zionism mean something that it does not.
Really? Why did they have to remove the Palestinians from their land? Have you heard of 1948??? If I like my neighbor's house and just want to live peacefully in his house, should I force my neighbor out? And continue living peacefully in his house? Would that be legal? Would that be right?
193 countries in the world: 67 Roman Catholic 49 Islamic 49 Protestant 14 Eastern Orthodox 3 Hindu And only ONE Jewish country. That's not too much to ask. And we're not asking.
There are no catholic or protestant countries. That means there are no countries where that is expressly enshrined in the constitution. No religion should be enshrined in a constitution. By being that way, it automatically labels you as an apartheid state when the constitution favours one religion or ethnicity over another. Modi is trying to get that in India but so far he has not been successful. India, also known as Bharat, is a Union of States. It is a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic with a parliamentary system of government. Saudi Arabia for instance is a muslim country. But using one of the most repressive regimes in the world as a template, it shows a serious lack of democracy and logical thinking
It's always painted as complex. Always by the side that has the upper hand. It's very simple. One Democratic State. Israel has a 50% Jewish demographic, which will maintain it's Jewish character. Zionism is much like the ideology of Communism. It's great that people get to live in a wonderful utopia they've confected in their minds. The problem comes when that utopia is built at the expense of others. Yes, Canada is a colony, as is America. Israel started their project at a time when conquest by war had lost it's appeal. All this is very moot as Israel is now firmly a pariah state on the cusp of both financial and moral bankruptcy. Mr Shapira and his European friends will move back home. Hopefully the Mizrahi will either integrate into Palestinian society, or return to their homelands.
The Palestinian state is Jordan, originally it was part of the British Mandate. So the excellent solution is for all Palestinians who do not want to live in Israel to move to Jordan.
@@marinabenzvi6522 No, it was a separate entity administered under the same Mandate. Besides this, why should people be expected to relocate to another territory to accommodate a European settler colony?
@@SteveVoros Look at English maps of all possible divisions between the Jews and Arabs. The English treated the territory quite arbitrarily and planned divisions without regard to the present borders. More than that, during Ottoman times, this whole area was called Greater Syria. Apart from separating the nations in this case there is no solution. And when the Muslim countries matured in their attitude towards Israel, they will only benefit.
@@diogoalmeida6721 Whose land? The Ottoman's? Who allowed Jews to emigrate to the empire? The British? Who allowed Jews to emigrate to the mandate after the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Funny, that both governing bodies had no problem with Jews moving to the land and making legal land purchases. I guess following the law is a problem for you.
@@dawntraveler42 Is that how Israel came to be? Just by having European Jews moving in and buying land? Because in 1945, jewish land ownership was about 6% in Palestine. After 1948, Israel took 77% of the lands, and ethnically cleansed it of half of its indigenous population.
@@dawntraveler42 In 1945, after decades of massive immigration from Europe, the Palestinian Jewish population owned 6% of the land. After 1948, the state of Israel occupied 77% of the land, and half of the non-Jewish Palestinian population was forced out. So no, it was not just "oh, we bought some land".
I support the good people on both sides too. Of course you can state that Zionism is only wanting a country for the jews to live in safely and if that's all you think it is, by all means you're free to call yourself a zionist, but that is NOT the definition of Zionism. You at least have to add that it involves the creation of a jewish state SPECIFICALLY within historical Palestine. I'm not saying that is a bad thing to wish for, but it's a considerably more complicated ideal than the one you said Zionism is. It involved creating a Jewish state in a place where there were already Jews (albeit a minority and partly due to immigration of the Zionist movement itself), Muslims, Christians, Druze, Samaritans etc etc. All of which were Palestinians before the creation of Israel. A toddler can understand that trying to create a Jewish majority state which would be and should forever remain Jewish in essence, in that place would be a very problematic undertaking. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone that it created considerable conflict. Personally I have no issue with there being an Israel, but I have A LOT of problems with THE WAY Israel was created, supported, run and is currently run. The world shouldn't have accepted and facilitated the creation of Israel IN THE WAY it has been. It is a very complicated situation and I understand both where the jews and the Palestinians were and are coming from, let alone the Druze, Samaritans etc. I also want to add that Israel had and still has many people, organizations and politicians in it who work towards a just peace and it's definitely not all bad. Back OT: Of course, as with any word and idealism, Zionism means different things to different people and it can even get hijacked by people who take the original idea to mean things that were never intended and boy has it. The problem is not with wanting a country for the Jews, I don't think there are many people would deny Jews the right to have a country. However, like most people agree, and many Jews do: It should not be at the expense of another people, who quite obviously also have the right of self-determination. No need to get into a long discussion with finger pointing, whataboutery, fact ping pong etc. Yes Israel is a better place to live than many countries surrounding it, more democratic etc etc etc. Heard it all before. It's partly true, doesn't white wash the bad Israel has caused. It does not. In ANY way. Yes, the Palestinians had chances and they refused etc etc. What can the Israelis do if the Palestinians won't compromise? etc etc. Yes, heard it all before. I understand both sides very well. No need for it. Of course, this is comedy, but I think one of the biggest factors contributing to the elongation of this conflict (and other issues) is the trend of oversimplifying things. Zionism is not simply the wish to have a country for the Jews to live safely in. The vast majority of the world would support that. It's the flip side to that which most of the world takes issue with and rightly so. The actual implementation of this nice idea is what's the problem. I hope the people in that region find away to coexist peacefully once again. All the best!
There are good people on both sides? On October 7, the women and children in Gaza took part in the genocide of the most Jews since the second World War.
The Oslo accords, which brought Arafat into the West Bank to demonstrate that the Palestinians could create a modern democracy. Except he made it into a dictatorship, a kleptocracy, robbing his own people blind, and doing nothing but launch terror attacks. That's Oslo.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Oslo Accords was boycotted by Israel, that's a fact. Palestinian Authority (Arafat) recognised Israel as a country and did not commit terror attacks so your statement is partially incorrect. What's your source of information?
@@diogoalmeida6721 Its the truth. The antisemites hate the fact that there is already a palestinian state. Its not about having another one for them its about the destruction of the only jewish state. thats why they were never interested in creating another arab state till 67
חביבי, 2 דברים. אחד - ציונות זאת לא תפסה שאומרת שליהודים צריכה להיות מדינה משלהם ואז נקודה, אלא עוד פרט אחד קטן - שהמדינה צריכה להיות "ציון". כלומר ציונות היא שהיהודים שייכים בציון (לכן "ציונות" ולא סתם "התנועה היהודית הלאומית" והיו כאלה באירופה של המאה ה 19). וכבר שכחתי את הדבר השני אבל תכף אזכר.
@@Exodusfifteenthree I cannot speak for God and I do not know God's plan or if God even exists, what I do know is that the Jewish people is the indigenous people of Zion which is the same land called Canaan and the land of Israel, and Judea and later on named Palestine by the Romans, Since thousands of years ago
There's nothing sane about zionism, and yes it is a colonialist movement at its core and to frame the idea of "one little Jewish state" as an inoffensive and just idea without the context of what that actually means is racist and ignorant. If you actually study the words and actions of the founding forefathers of zionism it was very explicit from the outset and the early zionists made it clear that colonizing Palestine would require enthnically clensing the native population. The origin of the conflict is incredibly simple, however he wishes to frame it otherwise - one group of people invaded and stole the land of another and far from trying to live in peace, have been murdering that native population and annexing more and more land. As far as solutions go, a two state solution is no longer viable and absurd when considering that Israel now occupies and or controls all of historic Palestine. If this comedian, or any Israeli is actually serious about living in peace, then dismantle the apartheid state and allow the full right of return for the palestinian diaspora and have a one state solution that is neither jewish, muslim or christian but rather a secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens from the river to the sea. Liberals tend to believe that they are reasonable and open minded and peace loving whilst at the same time supporting the inhumane systems that maintain their privilege. You can't have it both ways.
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the best and most balanced explanation of Zionism I could find, that’s also accessible and coherent. I’ve been struggling with explaining it to my friends, I’ll send them this link.
Thanks man. Am Israel chai.
Actually, if you really want an explanation of Zionism and its history, the following is the best and most balanced explanation: th-cam.com/video/SrUiS2G4Lms/w-d-xo.html
It's a nice explanation but not entirely accurate. It's true Zionism is quite old, from about 1860's.
At the time there were 2 major movements, Zionism and Bundism. The Bund also wanted a safe jewish existence but they believed this would be achieved by assimilation, autonomy and socialism.
The Bund was much more popular for most of the time. Only in the 1930's it became clearer that jews will not be able to survive by assimilation.
I have an even more concise definition Zionism = Jewish peoples rights.
It is a gaslighting explanation of zionism. It may be true that Zionism had earlier roots that did not call for the colonization and ethnically cleansing of Palestine with the goal of forming an ethnostate. But these other versions did not survive. What we call Zionism is the political movement cemented by Herzl and others at the end of the 19th century that culminated with the establishment of the ethnostate of Israel. That is what everyone, including Zionists, accept. His version of "we just want a place where the jewish people can be safe" is just a nice sentiment that everyone can agree with, and the motivation for a lot of other competing ideologies and movements within jewish culture. What sets them apart from one another is how they want to achieve that goal. So what is special about zionism is not the underlying completely uncontroversial sentiment that jewish people deserve to be safe, but the actual proposed method for achieving that goal, which was the creation of an ethnostate in Palestine.
It's a nice sentiment, but an innacurate explanation of Zionism.
This comedian is one that helped me get through the tough time of being a Jew in this time.
But none of what he said is true, are you fine with that? Go look this book up: The Empty Wagon by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro. The book is a compendium of the real origin of Zionism.
What kind of tough time?
@@lol311seriously?
@@cliomuse1206 Yes, like what kind of tough time?
@@lol311the Jews are one of the groups most affected by hate crimes. To this day, they are discriminated against and tormented, with or without Israel firing a single bullet.
I'm Arab, and I love everything you said here.
You're happy about the theft of land from other Arabs and the whole region being destabilized by the twisted ideology of Z'ism?
As an Israeli u warmed my heart. thanks mate! 💙 Israelies dont hate arab/muslims. we just want quiet and peace.
لو انت عربي اتفضل قول ليه هو صح بالعربي .. وياريت ميكونش عربي فصحى
احيّيك بجد @@aymanelhalawani8302
@@HOMiE-Rugsthen maybe end the occupation, siege, and military rule over Palestinians. Maybe stop forcefully dispossessing and displacing people and committing ethnic cleansing. My entire family was uprooted and forced out of their homes multiple times by Israel. And by the way, we are Christian Palestinians, so it’s not just Muslims or about religion. Go live in the occupied territories or Gaza for a few months if you want to see the unfortunate reality of how Israel treats “Arabs and Muslims” (or give us the dignity of calling us what we are, Palestinians. 👍🏽
I am Jew and a Zionist & you summed up exactly how I feel about the conflict.
same
@@jasonlobel4586
How can you justify eviction of Palestinian from their homes and force them , their children and their future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? That is the missing piece in his response.
כל הכבוד. אני מסכים איתך לגמרי לחלוטין ❤חמוד.
Yes
If European Jews insist upon having their own state, it should be in Europe, not at the expense of another people. Especially when that people gave refuge to the Jews when they were facing persecution from Christians in Europe.
Your definition of zionism is not what has been put into practice. And talking about a state is very different from talking about a place where one can live in peace.
It's simple: you see those people who lived there for thousands of years and have keys and deeds and actual DNA proof alongside actual footage and culture and authentic cuisine? Yeah? Give the land back to them!
People from anywhere else? Bon Voyage!
Palestine was hardly populated. In Gaza alone today live more people than in Palestine in 1880.
And do you really believe, all those arabs origin from this region?
@@ThomasVWorm "Palestine was hardly populated" tells me everything about your knowledge of population growth and how you approach the subject here! Is it the old "A land without a people for blah blah blah"? 😏
Also, you know that Arab are not a race, don't you? Sudanese and Lebanese are both Arabs, buddy! Identity might change, DNA doesn't! Think of it this way: there were no such thing as being "British" in the 1600s!
YKW, forget everything I said, watch 2 - very short - videos on TH-cam:
1- Judaism is just a religion not a race, a people or an ethnicity, Yaakov Shapiro
2- Palestine... Fully Furnished by Amer Zahr.
... then come back again and repeat what you said above! Go ahead, I trust you have a thirst for knowledge, not just trolling!
@@SaeedMSR in Palestine at 1880 the population was less than half a million.
@@ThomasVWorm Than you for acknowledging that there was/is a "Palestine"! 😁
Also, in 1880, there was less than 500k in Lebanon, and less than 300k in Jordan. Do you see a trend here, buddy?
How many Israelis were there, not only in Palestine, but in the entire world, in 1880? A big, huge, goose egg...ZERO!
'nuff said!
@@SaeedMSR in 1880 there lived about 13'000-20'000 jews in Palestine. They were never fully gone.
And the way you count them: there were no Palestinians too.
Finally, a sane opinion
Check out his long format show from shortly after October 7, it was 25 minutes long and great .
I have both Jews and Palestinians in my family and approve of this message.
Fully agree with you on zionism
Do you abide by the Talmud? It's demonic.
only its wrong. The earliest political Zionst was Rabbi Alkalai who called for a return to Zion (with the establishment of a bank or company like a railroad company.... his ideas were repeated by Hertzl fifty years later.) The idea was not territorialism (a jewish safe haven anywhere) but a return to our land in the land of Israel.
@1czechit1
Didn't understand if you agreed with zionist ideas or otherwise.
@@1czechit1 The idea of Jews returning to the holy land is a very old idea. Much of a typical Jewish prayer service is dedicated to the sanctification of that land.
In the end this is about humans. I'm heartbroken for the palestinian people in Gaza. But I can also feel for Israelis. We don't need more hate in this conflict... It feels like it will never stop.
How can it stop when you force millions of Palestinians , their children and future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? And the west is complicit in this providing diplomatic and military support to the Israelis. Why can't you have equal rights, for Jews, christians and Muslims? The Zionist will never agree to this.
80% of Israelis don't think they are killing enough Palestinians and believe they shouldn't allow humanitarian aid through.
It’s can stop anytime when Palestinians choose to stop the violence. Before the first intifada there where no checkpoints no borders no walls mostly chill everyone could go everywhere.
It wont. And I don't think the USA wants it to stop. They benefit from it.
@@gisch9393
The problem is the Israelis are so indoctrinated in their upbringing that majority consider themselves as special,"chosen" people and hence feel entitled to all the land, always potray themselves as the victims hence never the aggressor and they consider the Palestinians as less than human. They will never agree in granting the Palestinians their freedom.
One of your brethren killed his dad. Before the judge, he wailed: "I'm now an orphan" [ always a victim even after committing horrors]
I'm a zionist jew too
I'm a non-Jewish Zionist :D Love your work!
Dumbest thing ive heard so far, you can’t even be zionist without being jewish. Idiocity on a new level
Go build your promised land in Germany then 😅
😂😂😂😂 nah rasct cnt where not from Germany where from israel cry about it colinizer
אמנם לא מסכימה עם חלק ניכר מהדעות שלך אבל אתה מקסים ומודה ומעריכה כל מי שמצליח להעלות שביב של חיוך על פניי🙏🫶
אני יהודי שחי פה בגרמיה אני מכיר את שחק והוא אנטישמי מובהק שמתחנף לשמאל האנטיציוני ולערבים
Go back to Poland you Mileikowsky
Hi I am a Zionist
Best thing you said: "I'm against states being religious". Such a shame Britain didn't leave Palestine with a secular democracy. Then everyone there could have lived in peace regardless of religion and ethnicity. It's not too late. It's the only way forward.
You cannot have a secular democracy with Islamists.
Israel was created by socialists, many of whom were full-blown atheists. The Arabs were and continue to be far more driven by faith than the Israel that existed for many years. The number of religious fanatics in Israel has increased, which means that like Hamas and other Islamist groups, they are backed by God. And when you believe that, there is no compromise.
@@ThomasVWorm Islamism as a political movement is a much later invention, funded by the US and its allies, to fight communism. Most Arab countries at that time were nationalists, and there is little reason to think Palestinians would have been any different.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Hamas emerged in the late 80s. Look at the Arab states around Israel, like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. Were they Islamic states? The whole islamism being in the way of Palestinians having their own state is a canard.
Is there an uncut version? It looks like a compilation and nothing wrong with that, but I like to see the original take on the topic
I just edited some things that were repetitive or mispronounced, there aren’t any major points that were cut out.
@@Shahak-EN *The Zios have killed 40'000 and injured 90'000 Palestinians.*
*You just forgot a small point, that they Zios have been fighting and killing the Natives since the beginning of mass immigration to occupy "THE LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE, FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND".*
*EXCEPT THE LAND WAS NOT WITHOUT PEOPLE!*
איפה אתה מופיע? משער שאתה יודע עברית😂😂@@Shahak-EN
Zionism is an ideology, specially the political Zionism, which has evolved in an extremist ideology nowdays! As all wrong and extremist ideologies will come to an end sooner or later! So people can live in peace hopefully! Nevertheless Israeli society will have some ethical and moral issues to address in the future!
As will Arab Muslims
You think all the people are extremist, like the people Netanyahu relies on to stay in power? You are aware, I hope, that the people who were slaughtered on Oct. 7 were more likely than anyone to want to peacefully share the land with the Palestinians. Hamas knew that. It didn't matter.
Jew bad. Arab good.
im a zionist too
not something u should be proud of
@@amie6048Found the guy who didn't watch the vid.
thanks, i really needed to know that
@@amie6048 why not? You got something against Jews having their own homeland?
@@talsingh451 no, we (people with souls) are against genocidal apartheid states.
fuck yeah dude, thanks for the sane opinion. something you dont see a lot right now.
Toda Shahak, you have my vote
I am with one side only and I'm proud of it.
עם ישראל חי
Loser!
מה אם אני אגיד עם פלסטין חי
מסכימה עם הדעות שלך ושמחה שיש מישהו בחו"ל שמיצג אותנו בצורה כל כך יפה וממותנת❤
What the situation is making complex is that there are several groups on both sides on that small piece of land. There are people who believe the land is theirs and nobody else's (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want to live in peace together in one state (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want a two state solution (Palestinians and Israeli), etcetera, etcetera. But none of those groups is capable to compromise or project the way to achieve this goal where everybody (or the large majority) benifits. I condone any violence and oppression, doesn't matter what side. But to be honest, the battle is not fair and Palestinians are more of a victim at this point. The solution has to come of Israeli side to be willing to help their own neighbors.
I don't believe the people who believe the land is solely their can cooperate or reach any kind of negotiation with those who want to share or to have two separate countries. The first group are the extremists with the loudest voices (sadly) who are covering everything anyone else is saying
Let's be clear here. The ones not willing to compromise are the Israeli. The Palestinian perspective is entirely understandable and the fact that they accept a two state solution already shows how much they are willing to compromise. The ones who are denying that reality can be found on the Israeli side.
2:46 the difference is that Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to it's native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
All of this 🙏 it’s fucking sad that when someone says “hey how about we talk about solutions that don’t involve unaliving the people of either side” they’ll be either called a terrorist or a Nazi 🥴 make it make sense…
Thanks for your words. It really should be self explanatory.
I can appreciate that sentiment. However, the comedian is gaslighting everyone when he equates this sentiment with "zionism". Zionism is what created the ethnostate of Israel, a *state for the Jewish people*, in a land that originally had only a 1-3% jewish presence. How do you think this was achieved? Zionism's goal is the creation and maintenance of this ethnostate, *not peaceful coexistence".
Important to add that Zionism is more than just about Jews having a state for the Jewish people but also to make the return of Jews to the Promised land of Judah. And this is also not about religion, being a Jew is your nationalism, Jews are a people, an identity (call it Israelite to wrap your head around it).
So all the Polish, Russian and other Eastern European Jews, Ashkenazi I believe they are called, are an ethnicity. No they are not.
I’m unfollowing just to follow you back again to support your zionism!
They had us in the first half ngl
so shallow... do you even care about his comedy?
@@everyoneroasted you understand nothing m'boi :3
To be honest, I think we should strive for the places where Jews already live, in Shahak's case Germany, to be safe. But maybe I am just naïve.
Sure, that would be great for everyone. But it's also good to have a Jewish country to fall back on, because you know :)
Thanks for unapologetically stating your truth
A place to live in peace. Every decent person want that. But not everybody is a decent person.
Sure. But that is not what Zionism is. It's about founding a ethnostate in the lands that belonged to other people, and dispossessing this people in the process.
I mean yeah the Jews should be able to have a country, the problem is usually if you want one people to have land you need to take it from someone else and that someone is very rarely happy about it. Especially when you started out telling them you were going to let them govern their own territory after generations of rule by a foreign born empire and then be like “psyche!” and give that territory to someone else.
How can you take back your own land you never left?
If Xionism is about living in peace you can do that without genociding or occupying other nations. And if you read Theodore Hertzel's writings you will know that replacing and diasporing the local people was always part of the plan. You can have your own definition but it doesn't reflect the current ruling or the previous founding notion Xionism was built on and defined by.
Low-info guy with a mic
Get a place in europe..they did the haulocast...
*Even Shakespeare in Othello called it Palestine. Idem for British lord Balfour*
His description of zionism is accurate but I don't agree with the 2 state solution
it is not quite accurate. It should include 'within historical Palestine' or however you want to name the area, which complicates matters substantially, because it involves the very real possibility (some might say inevitability) that the creation of that land for the jews would be at the expense of the many people(s) living there who up until that point (certainly collectively) formed the majority, whereas the jews had been a minority, a portion of those Jews were even there because of the Zionist movement itself.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the root idea of Zionism, but there is a high possibility of that project not being fair to others and it's the failure to avoid that unfairness, by the leaders of not just Israel & the Palestinians but by the whole world, is what people take issue with and why Zionism has a very bad reputation and understandably so. Even a large portion of Jews disagree with Zionism, for political, religious, social or other reasons.
Distilling complicated issues down to one liners doesn't serve understanding, in my opinion. It mainly serves misunderstanding. The age of memes is not very helpful in my opinion. It can help to introduce novices to a subject, but it requires context and further explanation. A world where people just ping pong one liners at each other is a world that will bear few solutions.
my €0,02
@@TheGoodDrEvil, well said. The most intelligient comment so far here that I have read
Free Palestine
From judea
From judea and samria
Thank you Shahak for acknowledging Palestinian rights to exist .. I wasn’t a Zionist but if being a Zionist means an establishment to a Palestinian state too then I’m a Zionist ☮️🙏🏻
That is not what Zionism means, unfortunately.
When debating people online, I tend to find that the only reasonable people on both sides this issue are the ones from the Israeli and Palestinian sides. Everyone else seems to think this issue is not super complex and can be summed up as one side being good and one side being evil. Both sides have a near endless list of ways they have been wronged and things they themselves did which were quite bad. It is complex!
Not complex at all. Like any long historical process, there are lots of intricate details one can dive into if one wants to, but at its root, this is a simple land conflict. Some European jews decided (for a variety of reasons) to establish an ethnostate in Palestine, who at the time only had a 1-3% jewish population (and did not want a state). This movement got the backing of the British empire. The colonists managed to ethnically cleanse half the indigenous population, and founded their ethnostate. Then, that ethnostate militarily occupied the remaining lands of the indigenous population, but did not absorve this population. The indigenous population has been resisting their occupation and overall dispossession ever since. Not complex at all.
Listen I'm against the aid, but I'm pro conversation. I love your comedy and I think listening to different voices and opinions is great! (not the people who believe sending death threats to random singers because of their nationality is a good idea)
why against the aid?
@@acabjane307because it’s going to Hamass
@@acabjane307 Because I know it's going to Hamas, and even whatever little isn't, is going to a majority of people who want to see me dead at all costs. You don't feed your enemies. I feel bad for them but they are so brainwashed and my tax money shouldn't go to be helping those who are trying to murder me.
Just like Canada is a colonialist endeavor, so is Israel. In order to carve a Jewish state from land where Jews did not hold the majority of population, that requires displacement - just as the Inuit were displaced by European settlers in Canada. If the rationale is that other religions get to have religious states so Judaism should also have one, are those other religious states true democracies that respect the equal rights of all? No. Anglo European settlers got to commit a genocide in North America, so it’s only fair for Jews to be able to do something like that as well doesn’t make Zionism seem so attractive. To those not blinded by the Zionist bias, Islamic State and Jewish state seem like very similar ideas but different flags.
Anglo-European settlers did already have a country.
The jews do not commit a genocide. This is the plan of the Gaza strip and their leaders from the Hamas.
In Israel a palestinian Israeli can be judge at the supreme court. To give you an idea, what genocide means: here in Germany between 1933-1945 we had only one position available to jews: a place in the gas chamber.
@@ThomasVWorm I doubt Raphael Lemkin would agree with you that Jews should hold the monopoly on the term genocide.
I absolutely despise zionism
You don't have a state by kicking other people out of their home. FO
I'm a potato and I love your Zionism
Zionism is beautiful. Antisemitism is ugly and Islamism is a threat to civilizations and freedom loving people everywhere.
10 years ago I would agree. But it has been proven that there can never be a 2 state-solution of the current land-strip. Adjust to increase the borders of Israel, especially Jerusalem and every central area, move some borders-areas to Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and that is it. Enough is enough.
Wow, impressive, you solved it so quickly! A pity that such a talent for international politics lies hidden in TH-cam comments and not the UN or something.
True, enough is enough, the Israeli apartheid state has destroyed any chance of a two-state solution with its aggressive colonial policy. The only justifiable solution is the abolition of Israeli apartheid and the ethno-state in favor of a one-state solution in which everyone lives with equal rights and the indigenous population has the full right of return
@@simonpantermuller6997indigenous population are jews, i doubt arabs will allow jews to return to their homeland
@@simonpantermuller6997 the only apartheid states are the apartheid muslims state surrounding Israel , in my city alone I can drive 10 minutes and find a mosque or a church , you don't know what apartheid is .
On the other hand you can't enter mecca in saudi arabia if you are not muslim ,this is real apartheid , and you can't pray on temple mount if you are a Jew because of that stupid section in the agreement with jordan (which is by definition apartheid) .
And if you're against Israel being "an ethno state" you should also be against Islamic and arab ethno states that actually have muslims and other ethnicities having more rights than other populations .
Why don't you ask a one state for turks and kurds in turkey ?
Or allawyian and kurds in syria ?
Do you even know how many different ethnicities there are in some of these countries?
Syria is an ethno state
Iran is an ethno state
Sudan is an ethno state
Lebanon is an ethno state ,
Afghanistan is an ethno state
And the list goes on and on
*And all of these countries I've mentioned and others that are ethno states are also apartheid states.
But you only care if it's a Jewish state .
One state solution will be suicide with two populations which one of them is a hams /terrorist population is suicide!
We can't have that!
@@Orange7825 apparently the talents working at the UN are telling us that antisemitic terrorism is just israels fault. So he could actually work there.
Awesome Shahak. Now show us the Muslim comedy bit of this. We'll wait.
If someone says "It's very simple" about the conflict you know they wrong.
It's a land conflict. A bunch of Europeans decided to colonize yet another area of the world, and the indigenous population has been resisting ever since. It's not that complicated.
@@diogoalmeida6721 CLASSIC. Jews from Yemeni, Moroccan, Russian, Persian, Ethiopian origin can violate your claim.
@@diogoalmeida6721 the arabs colonized it, they came from the Peninsula. Israel is in the Levant since almost 4000 years, 1000 years before any foot of arab or muslim. It is Israel's land since ever, they the indigenious there, yet that doesnt make the arabs less indigenious, and btw fasho Hamas are not resistance, nor rape. They are nazis.
@@diogoalmeida6721 and each jew and israeli in this world (including me) has its roots in the Levant, exactly there. We are not Europeans, not even white. We are ancient people. Please get your facts straight.
I understand your take on Zionism, and I often feel that people who support Zionism see Zionism the way you describe it. My objection is, this is only a partial description of what Zionism is and what it looks like in practice. The bit abt Zionism you leave out is that it’s the establishment of Jewish self determination *in Palestine*. Hertz, the inventor of Zionism publicly stated that no forced transfers of people would be necessary, however, in his diary and private letters he sent to friends he conceded that forced and violent transfer of people would be a necessary prerequisite for the establishment of the state. Beyond that, early supporters of Zionism explicitly argued that because Zionism was inherently a colonial project, they would need the protection of states such as the UK to fund their protection from angry indigenous Palestinians (this is before the first settlements were even established). Finally, Zionism (while not explicitly) implies that Palestinians aren’t indigenous to the land (which is where the homeland bit comes from). This is partly because Zionism predates genetic testing, and was created during a time where Europe defined states by their ethnic make up rather than their history. Because Palestinians identified as Arab, Zionists simply assume their ancestors migrated to the land after a major exodus of Jewish people. Which isn’t technically untrue, but misses out a key detail, plenty of those Arabs had children with Jewish families and Christian families that were originally Jewish but converted during the Roman Empire. As it turns out, Palestinians are equally the descendants of Israelites (Canaanites) as Israelis. This reality doesn’t fit in the Zionist perspective because it challenges the idea that someone with a particular ethnicity or religion has more of a right to the land.
The problem Zionism has is the same problem that every colonial ideology has, exclusivity. Zionism wants the land exclusively for Jewish people, sure they can tolerate a small minority of Arabs as relatively well off 2nd class citizens but only insofar as they concede the land belongs to a single group of people, and that the Arabs don’t have too much political capital. If tomorrow Israel went “sorry for all of that killing and stealing land, Palestinians you get to live anywhere in the land and you get to vote in the election” that would be the end of Zionism, as the government would concede that Israelis don’t have an exclusive claim to land based on a “birth right”. And you wouldn’t a 2 state solution, you’d have a 1 state, where everyone has rights, you know, like other democratic countries.
As I say in the video, Zionism is older than Theodore Herzl and while many credit him as the founder of political Zionism, there are plenty of other forms of Zionism older than his that do not share all of Herzl‘s views and ideas.
@@Shahak-EN oh hey, thanks for your reply! I’ll look into older forms of Zionism that predate Herlz, and how that influences modern Israeli policy (if at all). Out of curiosity, how do you feel about a single state? As in, Israelis get to stay in their land with full rights along side Palestinians, + Israelis get access to Gaza and the West Bank, while Palestinians also get access to Israeli land (effectively opening everything up to everyone)?
@@saifalimuhannad2807 I feel like that's not a realistic solution right now. There's not enough trust and willingness on either sides for this to work. What happens with Hamas? What is the official language of Israel? Is it even called Israel? What about the risk of Jews becoming a minority again considering how that played out in Europe?
@@Shahak-EN ya you’re right, there are plenty of moving parts to establishing a single state. Beyond everything you mentioned, it wouldn’t be possible without the international community being involved in every step, which could be a difficult sell.
I will try to address some of your concerns. One of the reasons why I like a single state solution is because of the current population make up of the land, it’s almost a 50/50 split between Israelis and Palestinians. The reason why that’s a good thing is because it means that neither side can vote in a party which prioritizes the other. So parties are forced to be moderate and concede to each other in hopes of winning elections. So no full blown Jewish or Arab/muslim parliament. Also I’m a big believer in contact theory, the more Palestinians and Israelis hang out with each other, the less likely they are to try and kill each other. There’s a reason why the British thought to separate the mosques from synagogs and churches during the first wave of migration, the people got along too much during the first wave of immigration.
Secondly it avoids a violent disposition of the settlers in the West Bank, rather than forcing them all out, they get to stay and the people who lost their land are compensated somehow. This does mean amnesty for the settlers but I think that’s preferable over a war in the West Bank. Something like half the settlers are peaceful anyways.
In terms of a language, I mean Canada has 2 state languages, Hebrew and Arabic do have some similarities, I think both should be a national language.
Hamas (as well as other militia organizations) tend to become part of the military after a big change like this. The militias that help establish Israel for example became the IDF. Or as a condition of the agreement to have a single state, hamas ends its armed campaigns and decommission its weapons, like the IRA in Ireland. I think you’ll find that militias like hamas tend to stop existing when the circumstances that caused their existence are changed for the better.
I don’t really care what the land is called, as long as everyone on it is free and not under threat. But it’s a valid concern. I know Rhodesia tried to get called rhodesia-Zimbabwe after the bush wars (I think).
As it stands, I don’t like a 2 state solution because I feel that’s how we got here in the first place. It also is more unrealistic, part of the reason why you get hamas and lakud is that, the 2 groups are so isolated from each other and only meet up once every 2 years when they try to kill each other. That isolation only gets worse with a hard boarder not better. Secondly, what happens to the West Bank? The settlers can’t stay but if you try to move them it will almost certainly be violent. Not to mention that Israelis rely on the mound aquifer for fresh water which is in the West Bank. As it stands Israel takes over the mount aquifer and gives very little of it to Palestinians while making most of it undrinkable. Ok so the settlers stay? But then they commit acts of terror on Palestinians, or Palestinians retaliate which means idf gets involved which means more dead Palestinians. And like, the fuck is Gaza suppose to do on the other side? Ain’t no way it’ll be a part of the West Bank. Ya I don’t know, I prefer a single state over a 2 state.
@@Shahak-EN and none of them have become the political movement that ended up with the founding of Israel. It was the political zionism of Herzl and co. So that is what zionism means to most people. If you have a non-canonical definition, then maybe say it, instead of attempting to gaslight people.
I appreciate the fact that he has a sane view regarding the solution to the conflict (a Palestinian state), but a lot of the rest is highly questionable, and it shows how deeply ingrained zionist propaganda can be that his take is seen as a moderate one. Equating Zionism (a not very old movement, contrary what he said) with "wanting a country where jewish ppl can be safe" is patently false. If that were the case, then modern zionism would be advocating for mass immigration to the US, where jewish ppl have been able to flourish in peace and safety. Zionism has always been an European nationalistic movement. It is not about finding a place where the "jewish ppl can be safe", but rather founding *a national state for the jewish people*, and since the end of the 19th century, the location for that state has been identified as Palestine, where at the time only 1-3% of the population was jewish (and was also deeply anti-zionist btw). How does one make that happen? By taking the land from their inhabitants and driving them away. This is not a "very complicated conflict". It's a conflict about land. European jews arrived en masse in the span of some 30 years, some as settlers and some as refugees and drove the Palestinians off their land, with the full support of the largest and most powerful European power of the time (England). It's mind boggling that this guy's response to the Québecois Canadian who called him a colonizer was to huff and puff about how the Canadian was too. Well, there you go. You acknowledge that you took someone else's land (not that long ago either, my father is older than the State of Israel) and they want it back. Not that hard to understand. Now to the second point: why doesn't Israel simply give citizenship to all the Palestinians that it is currently militarily occupying? Because then the Israeli jews would be in the minority, and Israel was founded on the premise of being a national state *for the jewish people*, an ethnostate. There could be a single national state for all the inhabitants who call the land of Palestine/current state of Israel their home. This would be a multi-ethnic and religiously diverse country, perhaps even a liberal democracy. But it would not be Israel anymore, because it would not be *for the jewish people* alone. Hence, it cannot exist. Zionism is not a neutral stance. It is not about keeping jewish people safe. It a colonial project, one that sees having an ethnostate as a founding principle.
Israeli Zionist and I feel exactly the same. Exactly.
Who is giving our hostages aid?
hamas but only if it was a wet paper or none.
Bravo Shahak! 100% on everything you said. More voices like yours are needed.
How have you just uncomplicate a subject so complicated? As ever, thoughtful and powerful ❤
Stupidity, plain and simple.
It's not complicated. It's a simple land dispute. The state of Israel was founded by ethnically cleansing the land it occupies from its indigenous population. The indigenous population has been trying to either get it back or at least trying not to lose more of it.
Canada - why pick on French-speakers? What about the Anglos? More of them colonised north America.
What christian state? Where? Cuz america isnt
context is important.
so is how people interpret a word like Zionism.
disputing a definition doesn't really help move the situation forward.
we should focus on intentions, morals, values, and human rights.
what you said about the Israeli singers coming under threat is fair,
they have nothing to do with the conflict and are innocent,
just like all the civilians in Palestine and Israel that are caught in the crossfire of a war against an apartheid state.
its the same story every time and it ALWAYS ends badly.
all we can do is try our best to stop it happening again
I like it that someone who's never been to Israel calls it an Apartheid state.
You do realize you telling people what their own movement is about would be outright rejected for any other ethnic or racial group? Try telling the Black Lives Matter movement or the Native American tribes what they're about and see how far that gets you.
There are violent settlers, and I not only don't support them - I think the entire idea of west bank settlements is anti-zionist at its core. You don't get to define me or my beliefs.
@@int0x2e if it’s your belief to oppress a certain group of people then we do get to define you. we define it as oppression. that’s exactly what the black lives matter movement is about - it’s not about about a new black world order as the racists like to believe. it’s about equal rights for black people which they don’t have under deep rooted systemic oppression. literally the same thing is going on in Isreal and so many other countries. at the heart of every movement are shared values. otherwise you don’t have a movement, you have an agenda to fuck some people over. even the native americans (also not a movement btw) had a culture of non-ownership of the land and valuing nature. this is respecting the ‘rights’ of the natural environment and i would be all for that if that’s where the discussion is headed.
But it’s not.
it’s caught up in vengeful ideologies about definitions and semantics which do nothing but cause more suffering.
@@yoezra i’ve never been to auschwitz but it’s clear what was going on…
you should be more precise when contesting. be specific on what you disagree with otherwise you don’t have a point or argument
@@int0x2e my comment got banned so i’ll tldr
if your movement is oppressing a minority, then it’s not a movement, it’s an agenda and it’s defined as oppression.
black lives matter was a movement for equal rights for black people under deep rooted systematic oppression, not an agenda for a new world order
all movements have shared values
“native american” is not a movement, its a culture with values that are also shared by many
i would love to see u and sammy obeid share a same stage... u guys would stop the war....
Any french people here?
Yes, as a jewish person, i was taught exactly that about Zionism. How can zionism be about “occupying Palestine,” if Herzl was a modern zionist, ffrom the 1800s. It’s about peaceful coexistence where we aren’t unalived for being ethnically jewish
And the Zionism before the modern era - Rabbi Yehuda Halevi and Rambam in the 12th century, Ezra and Nehemiah in the 5th century (before Islam was created)... these are only the most famous names, but Zionism has always existed since the deportation and was formed as a national movement following the awakening of nationalism in Europe and the world
You were taught wrong. Read what the founders and luminaries of the zionist movement and founders of the state of Israel wrote. It was about the creation of an ethnostate. If peaceful coexistence followed, then great. If not, so be it. That was/is not the goal.
this is funny aside from lethally true
Is this guy saying he is a Zionist?
Where would we reasonables be without ambivalence? Sure it's complicated - but what's easy except of whining?
Zionism is a place in the heart.
Too bad i get called a self hating Jew by a lot of Jews because I have literally the same opinion as you. It's frustrating because I mostly just try to pick the side of humanity, I'm not trying to get into extremes either way.
At this point let's just blame the Italians because no one's talking about the Romans
Rome is to blame for the disgusting invention of Christianity. The most powerful tool to divide and conquer.
Very proud he said he is a zionism, it just mean jews want to live. And always make me crazy people so mad there is a jewish state when there are many muslims and christian states. Like its a big no no
You talk as if people can just say "now I want my state". It's not how it works. If Israel had been established in an unoccupied island somewhere, no one would care. The problem is that Israel was founded as a colonial project, with the help of a colonial power, via the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population. That is what people object to, with good reason.
@@diogoalmeida6721 If you open Pandora's box a lot of people around the world would owe the Jews living in Israel plenty. The Iraqi government owes me 20 million dollars. Plus the Jews bought the land from the British. and the only reason they were kicked out was that they tried to kill the Jews. If they hadn't attempted who knows maybe history would have been different. They were the ones who sided with Hitler, so they paid the price.
You got it spot on!!!
Well said!
Summed up zionism perfectly
Life is grey so our problems are too
Happy to be a colonizer tho🤦🏽♂️
You should be very ashamed if it!
The unfollow in the DMs LMFAOOO I laughed at that. Good response to this question, especially about Zionism as the definition has definitely has gotten misconstrued over time.
Talmud?? Demonic.
@@czourides Are u the one in his DMs saying unfollow? Super demonic of you
@@thelizrd_ No, I'm not. And that Talmud is demonic. Are you too?
Crowd got reaaallly quite
Love and support to u and ur Zionist ideas frm an Indian 🇮🇳🇮🇳
You support the Talmud?? Really??
@@czourides what do you think the talmud is? please help me understand, thanks.
@@itaymry You "support Zionism" yet don't know what the Talmud teaches...very nice. Ponder. Btw, the Upanishads are beautiful. May all sentient beings transcend suffering.
@@czouridesboy, you don’t understand English very well, do you? He did NOT ask what the Talmud is- he asked what YOU think it is! Understand the difference….?
I disagree. You're attempting to read his mind. "Goy*m"...Talmud.@@Glenrok
Wrong definition of Zionism.
This is so stupid. The whole blaming Canada, um the whole point of its happening now and things need to change. Not use the past as an excuse …
Also complicated not one bit! People who actually looked into the history and saw how Israel became a country by illegal crime and the hijacking of British help
"the hijacking of British help" lol
Thank you for letting all of us know you don't know history
@@almoghadad856 it is a pithy accurate summary. What do you think it gets wrong? Was Israel not founded by ethnic cleansing the Palestinians? Did the British not create a lot of the conditions that allowed this to happen?
Israel was founded by war not "ethnic cleansing". and the British Aram embargoed Israel. After the Arab revolt in 1936 the British went against the Jews
@@almoghadad856 The ethnic cleansing was the goal of the war. Read Benny Morris' book on the conflict. It's all there. Yes, at times the British grew tired of the balancing act they created for themselves in cleaving Palestine into jewish and palestinian groups. During some time, they helped the jews, and then when that created too much tension with the local population, they scaled it back, and so on and so forth. It ended with Britain throwing the whole issue on the new formed UN's lap and the outcome we all know.
U said it so right, it has nothing to do about Palestine, about Islam, nothing else beside Jews living in peace and harmony, well done !❤
Not what Zionism means. Lots of movements and ideologies exist and have existed within Jewish culture that seek to answer how the jewish people can exist and thrive in peace in this world. Zionism is just one of them. What sets Zionism apart is exactly the fact that it proposes that the only way we can get "Jews living in peace and harmony" is by creating an ethnostate. In Palestine. Where only 1-3% of the population was Jewish at the time (and were not zionist either). Stop trying to make Zionism mean something that it does not.
Really? Why did they have to remove the Palestinians from their land? Have you heard of 1948??? If I like my neighbor's house and just want to live peacefully in his house, should I force my neighbor out? And continue living peacefully in his house? Would that be legal? Would that be right?
193 countries in the world:
67 Roman Catholic
49 Islamic
49 Protestant
14 Eastern Orthodox
3 Hindu
And only ONE Jewish country.
That's not too much to ask.
And we're not asking.
You really believe that crap you wrote?
The fuck do you mean by 3 hindu
@@Ojaidiv India, Nepal, and Mauritius
@@handler654 where is the lie tho?
There are no catholic or protestant countries. That means there are no countries where that is expressly enshrined in the constitution. No religion should be enshrined in a constitution. By being that way, it automatically labels you as an apartheid state when the constitution favours one religion or ethnicity over another.
Modi is trying to get that in India but so far he has not been successful.
India, also known as Bharat, is a Union of States. It is a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic with a parliamentary system of government.
Saudi Arabia for instance is a muslim country. But using one of the most repressive regimes in the world as a template, it shows a serious lack of democracy and logical thinking
It's always painted as complex. Always by the side that has the upper hand.
It's very simple. One Democratic State. Israel has a 50% Jewish demographic, which will maintain it's Jewish character.
Zionism is much like the ideology of Communism. It's great that people get to live in a wonderful utopia they've confected in their minds. The problem comes when that utopia is built at the expense of others. Yes, Canada is a colony, as is America. Israel started their project at a time when conquest by war had lost it's appeal.
All this is very moot as Israel is now firmly a pariah state on the cusp of both financial and moral bankruptcy.
Mr Shapira and his European friends will move back home. Hopefully the Mizrahi will either integrate into Palestinian society, or return to their homelands.
The Palestinian state is Jordan, originally it was part of the British Mandate. So the excellent solution is for all Palestinians who do not want to live in Israel to move to Jordan.
@@marinabenzvi6522 No, it was a separate entity administered under the same Mandate. Besides this, why should people be expected to relocate to another territory to accommodate a European settler colony?
@@SteveVoros Look at English maps of all possible divisions between the Jews and Arabs. The English treated the territory quite arbitrarily and planned divisions without regard to the present borders. More than that, during Ottoman times, this whole area was called Greater Syria. Apart from separating the nations in this case there is no solution. And when the Muslim countries matured in their attitude towards Israel, they will only benefit.
I feel you
THANK YOU! That's exactly what's on my mind!
sooo, you could argue that Moses was the first Zionist?
Actually Abraham, but Moses is a good 2nd.
Taking other people's land to establish your own ethostate? I guess that fits.
@@diogoalmeida6721 Whose land? The Ottoman's? Who allowed Jews to emigrate to the empire? The British? Who allowed Jews to emigrate to the mandate after the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Funny, that both governing bodies had no problem with Jews moving to the land and making legal land purchases. I guess following the law is a problem for you.
@@dawntraveler42 Is that how Israel came to be? Just by having European Jews moving in and buying land? Because in 1945, jewish land ownership was about 6% in Palestine. After 1948, Israel took 77% of the lands, and ethnically cleansed it of half of its indigenous population.
@@dawntraveler42 In 1945, after decades of massive immigration from Europe, the Palestinian Jewish population owned 6% of the land. After 1948, the state of Israel occupied 77% of the land, and half of the non-Jewish Palestinian population was forced out. So no, it was not just "oh, we bought some land".
I support the good people on both sides too. Of course you can state that Zionism is only wanting a country for the jews to live in safely and if that's all you think it is, by all means you're free to call yourself a zionist, but that is NOT the definition of Zionism. You at least have to add that it involves the creation of a jewish state SPECIFICALLY within historical Palestine.
I'm not saying that is a bad thing to wish for, but it's a considerably more complicated ideal than the one you said Zionism is. It involved creating a Jewish state in a place where there were already Jews (albeit a minority and partly due to immigration of the Zionist movement itself), Muslims, Christians, Druze, Samaritans etc etc. All of which were Palestinians before the creation of Israel.
A toddler can understand that trying to create a Jewish majority state which would be and should forever remain Jewish in essence, in that place would be a very problematic undertaking. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone that it created considerable conflict. Personally I have no issue with there being an Israel, but I have A LOT of problems with THE WAY Israel was created, supported, run and is currently run. The world shouldn't have accepted and facilitated the creation of Israel IN THE WAY it has been.
It is a very complicated situation and I understand both where the jews and the Palestinians were and are coming from, let alone the Druze, Samaritans etc.
I also want to add that Israel had and still has many people, organizations and politicians in it who work towards a just peace and it's definitely not all bad.
Back OT: Of course, as with any word and idealism, Zionism means different things to different people and it can even get hijacked by people who take the original idea to mean things that were never intended and boy has it.
The problem is not with wanting a country for the Jews, I don't think there are many people would deny Jews the right to have a country. However, like most people agree, and many Jews do: It should not be at the expense of another people, who quite obviously also have the right of self-determination.
No need to get into a long discussion with finger pointing, whataboutery, fact ping pong etc.
Yes Israel is a better place to live than many countries surrounding it, more democratic etc etc etc. Heard it all before. It's partly true, doesn't white wash the bad Israel has caused. It does not. In ANY way.
Yes, the Palestinians had chances and they refused etc etc. What can the Israelis do if the Palestinians won't compromise? etc etc. Yes, heard it all before.
I understand both sides very well.
No need for it.
Of course, this is comedy, but I think one of the biggest factors contributing to the elongation of this conflict (and other issues) is the trend of oversimplifying things.
Zionism is not simply the wish to have a country for the Jews to live safely in.
The vast majority of the world would support that.
It's the flip side to that which most of the world takes issue with and rightly so.
The actual implementation of this nice idea is what's the problem.
I hope the people in that region find away to coexist peacefully once again.
All the best!
There are good people on both sides?
On October 7, the women and children in Gaza took part in the genocide of the most Jews since the second World War.
I’m a fan of liberal democracy with equal rights for all. Not theocracy or ethno states…
The solution was the Oslo Accord
The Oslo accords, which brought Arafat into the West Bank to demonstrate that the Palestinians could create a modern democracy. Except he made it into a dictatorship, a kleptocracy, robbing his own people blind, and doing nothing but launch terror attacks. That's Oslo.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Oslo Accords was boycotted by Israel, that's a fact. Palestinian Authority (Arafat) recognised Israel as a country and did not commit terror attacks so your statement is partially incorrect. What's your source of information?
What exactly did the Palestinians get from the Oslo accords?
@@diogoalmeida6721 Nothing because Israel boycotted, Israel doesn't want a 2 States solution.
I’m a Zionist
dass du mal ne voice of reason in diesem konflikt bist, hätte ich auch nicht erwartet
Der beschreibt es sehr gut und deutlich
There is already a palestinian state. Its the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan!
No other islamist failstate needed.
This is an insane take. But thank you for showing us what Zionism entails, instead of the gaslighting version the comedian is peddling.
@@diogoalmeida6721 Its the truth. The antisemites hate the fact that there is already a palestinian state. Its not about having another one for them its about the destruction of the only jewish state. thats why they were never interested in creating another arab state till 67
Thank you!
Yyyyyup. That’s all there is to it. Very well said.
תודה שחק
עצוב שאתה עושה עבודה יותר טובה בלהסביר על ציונות מאשר הממשלה הדפוקה שלנו, שעושה רושם שרק מנסה לחרבן על המפעל הציוני
Talmud??
@@czouridesbible? Koran…..?
What you trying to say ? @@czourides
@@labradoriteatheart He has a problem with Jews and uses the Talmud as a dog-whistle.
YES
All very well explained. But comedy?
Omg thats so accurate, I feel this
חביבי, 2 דברים.
אחד - ציונות זאת לא תפסה שאומרת שליהודים צריכה להיות מדינה משלהם ואז נקודה, אלא עוד פרט אחד קטן - שהמדינה צריכה להיות "ציון". כלומר ציונות היא שהיהודים שייכים בציון (לכן "ציונות" ולא סתם "התנועה היהודית הלאומית" והיו כאלה באירופה של המאה ה 19).
וכבר שכחתי את הדבר השני אבל תכף אזכר.
What's Gods Idea of Zionism?
@@Exodusfifteenthree
I cannot speak for God and I do not know God's plan or if God even exists, what I do know is that the Jewish people is the indigenous people of Zion which is the same land called Canaan and the land of Israel, and Judea and later on named Palestine by the Romans,
Since thousands of years ago
Is it funny yet?
that’s what the Palestinians did, gave Israelites a place to stay. Then what do u call those custards who created Israel?
Literally never happened. Palestinians did not let Jews in. They murdered them.
The nakba was bad, but the Arabs are just as bad
There's nothing sane about zionism, and yes it is a colonialist movement at its core and to frame the idea of "one little Jewish state" as an inoffensive and just idea without the context of what that actually means is racist and ignorant. If you actually study the words and actions of the founding forefathers of zionism it was very explicit from the outset and the early zionists made it clear that colonizing Palestine would require enthnically clensing the native population. The origin of the conflict is incredibly simple, however he wishes to frame it otherwise - one group of people invaded and stole the land of another and far from trying to live in peace, have been murdering that native population and annexing more and more land. As far as solutions go, a two state solution is no longer viable and absurd when considering that Israel now occupies and or controls all of historic Palestine. If this comedian, or any Israeli is actually serious about living in peace, then dismantle the apartheid state and allow the full right of return for the palestinian diaspora and have a one state solution that is neither jewish, muslim or christian but rather a secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens from the river to the sea. Liberals tend to believe that they are reasonable and open minded and peace loving whilst at the same time supporting the inhumane systems that maintain their privilege. You can't have it both ways.