I understand your take on Zionism, and I often feel that people who support Zionism see Zionism the way you describe it. My objection is, this is only a partial description of what Zionism is and what it looks like in practice. The bit abt Zionism you leave out is that it’s the establishment of Jewish self determination *in Palestine*. Hertz, the inventor of Zionism publicly stated that no forced transfers of people would be necessary, however, in his diary and private letters he sent to friends he conceded that forced and violent transfer of people would be a necessary prerequisite for the establishment of the state. Beyond that, early supporters of Zionism explicitly argued that because Zionism was inherently a colonial project, they would need the protection of states such as the UK to fund their protection from angry indigenous Palestinians (this is before the first settlements were even established). Finally, Zionism (while not explicitly) implies that Palestinians aren’t indigenous to the land (which is where the homeland bit comes from). This is partly because Zionism predates genetic testing, and was created during a time where Europe defined states by their ethnic make up rather than their history. Because Palestinians identified as Arab, Zionists simply assume their ancestors migrated to the land after a major exodus of Jewish people. Which isn’t technically untrue, but misses out a key detail, plenty of those Arabs had children with Jewish families and Christian families that were originally Jewish but converted during the Roman Empire. As it turns out, Palestinians are equally the descendants of Israelites (Canaanites) as Israelis. This reality doesn’t fit in the Zionist perspective because it challenges the idea that someone with a particular ethnicity or religion has more of a right to the land. The problem Zionism has is the same problem that every colonial ideology has, exclusivity. Zionism wants the land exclusively for Jewish people, sure they can tolerate a small minority of Arabs as relatively well off 2nd class citizens but only insofar as they concede the land belongs to a single group of people, and that the Arabs don’t have too much political capital. If tomorrow Israel went “sorry for all of that killing and stealing land, Palestinians you get to live anywhere in the land and you get to vote in the election” that would be the end of Zionism, as the government would concede that Israelis don’t have an exclusive claim to land based on a “birth right”. And you wouldn’t a 2 state solution, you’d have a 1 state, where everyone has rights, you know, like other democratic countries.
As I say in the video, Zionism is older than Theodore Herzl and while many credit him as the founder of political Zionism, there are plenty of other forms of Zionism older than his that do not share all of Herzl‘s views and ideas.
@@Shahak-EN oh hey, thanks for your reply! I’ll look into older forms of Zionism that predate Herlz, and how that influences modern Israeli policy (if at all). Out of curiosity, how do you feel about a single state? As in, Israelis get to stay in their land with full rights along side Palestinians, + Israelis get access to Gaza and the West Bank, while Palestinians also get access to Israeli land (effectively opening everything up to everyone)?
@@saifalimuhannad2807 I feel like that's not a realistic solution right now. There's not enough trust and willingness on either sides for this to work. What happens with Hamas? What is the official language of Israel? Is it even called Israel? What about the risk of Jews becoming a minority again considering how that played out in Europe?
@@Shahak-EN ya you’re right, there are plenty of moving parts to establishing a single state. Beyond everything you mentioned, it wouldn’t be possible without the international community being involved in every step, which could be a difficult sell. I will try to address some of your concerns. One of the reasons why I like a single state solution is because of the current population make up of the land, it’s almost a 50/50 split between Israelis and Palestinians. The reason why that’s a good thing is because it means that neither side can vote in a party which prioritizes the other. So parties are forced to be moderate and concede to each other in hopes of winning elections. So no full blown Jewish or Arab/muslim parliament. Also I’m a big believer in contact theory, the more Palestinians and Israelis hang out with each other, the less likely they are to try and kill each other. There’s a reason why the British thought to separate the mosques from synagogs and churches during the first wave of migration, the people got along too much during the first wave of immigration. Secondly it avoids a violent disposition of the settlers in the West Bank, rather than forcing them all out, they get to stay and the people who lost their land are compensated somehow. This does mean amnesty for the settlers but I think that’s preferable over a war in the West Bank. Something like half the settlers are peaceful anyways. In terms of a language, I mean Canada has 2 state languages, Hebrew and Arabic do have some similarities, I think both should be a national language. Hamas (as well as other militia organizations) tend to become part of the military after a big change like this. The militias that help establish Israel for example became the IDF. Or as a condition of the agreement to have a single state, hamas ends its armed campaigns and decommission its weapons, like the IRA in Ireland. I think you’ll find that militias like hamas tend to stop existing when the circumstances that caused their existence are changed for the better. I don’t really care what the land is called, as long as everyone on it is free and not under threat. But it’s a valid concern. I know Rhodesia tried to get called rhodesia-Zimbabwe after the bush wars (I think). As it stands, I don’t like a 2 state solution because I feel that’s how we got here in the first place. It also is more unrealistic, part of the reason why you get hamas and lakud is that, the 2 groups are so isolated from each other and only meet up once every 2 years when they try to kill each other. That isolation only gets worse with a hard boarder not better. Secondly, what happens to the West Bank? The settlers can’t stay but if you try to move them it will almost certainly be violent. Not to mention that Israelis rely on the mound aquifer for fresh water which is in the West Bank. As it stands Israel takes over the mount aquifer and gives very little of it to Palestinians while making most of it undrinkable. Ok so the settlers stay? But then they commit acts of terror on Palestinians, or Palestinians retaliate which means idf gets involved which means more dead Palestinians. And like, the fuck is Gaza suppose to do on the other side? Ain’t no way it’ll be a part of the West Bank. Ya I don’t know, I prefer a single state over a 2 state.
@@Shahak-EN and none of them have become the political movement that ended up with the founding of Israel. It was the political zionism of Herzl and co. So that is what zionism means to most people. If you have a non-canonical definition, then maybe say it, instead of attempting to gaslight people.
But none of what he said is true, are you fine with that? Go look this book up: The Empty Wagon by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro. The book is a compendium of the real origin of Zionism.
@@lol311the Jews are one of the groups most affected by hate crimes. To this day, they are discriminated against and tormented, with or without Israel firing a single bullet.
@@jasonlobel4586 How can you justify eviction of Palestinian from their homes and force them , their children and their future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? That is the missing piece in his response.
If European Jews insist upon having their own state, it should be in Europe, not at the expense of another people. Especially when that people gave refuge to the Jews when they were facing persecution from Christians in Europe.
@@HOMiE-Rugsthen maybe end the occupation, siege, and military rule over Palestinians. Maybe stop forcefully dispossessing and displacing people and committing ethnic cleansing. My entire family was uprooted and forced out of their homes multiple times by Israel. And by the way, we are Christian Palestinians, so it’s not just Muslims or about religion. Go live in the occupied territories or Gaza for a few months if you want to see the unfortunate reality of how Israel treats “Arabs and Muslims” (or give us the dignity of calling us what we are, Palestinians. 👍🏽
What’s hilarious to me is that for centuries, wherever Jews tried to make a living they kept being told to ‘go back to where they came from’. Now that they have returned to their homeland, everyone is telling them to ‘go back to Europe or whatever’. Why tf should they listen to the world anymore?
only its wrong. The earliest political Zionst was Rabbi Alkalai who called for a return to Zion (with the establishment of a bank or company like a railroad company.... his ideas were repeated by Hertzl fifty years later.) The idea was not territorialism (a jewish safe haven anywhere) but a return to our land in the land of Israel.
@@1czechit1 The idea of Jews returning to the holy land is a very old idea. Much of a typical Jewish prayer service is dedicated to the sanctification of that land.
I'm an Arab and I'm not against for the Jews to have a country for themselves, but one condition is to not engage in any genocide to accomplish that. they can buy land from country in the world, and they weren't the majority in any land, and no one wants to sell them any land to establish their own state on it ... then they can maybe go mars and establish it in there. who the hell said every religion should have a state for only themselves? there are thousands of religions in the world, should each one of them have there own state? should scientology have a state for themselves? or maybe this rule only apply for Jewish people?
22 Arab Muslim countries surrounding Israel. You’re an absolute hypocrite unless you’d like those countries to become secular or Christian. But guaranteed that whatever country you’re from, religious minorities have few rights there. By contrast, there are 2 million Arabs (Muslim, Christian and Druze) who have full rights in Israel.
lmfao, dont try to hide it, you definitily against jews. First of all it is our ancestral home, and we lived there 2000 years before islam was created. Second there were always jews. Third Palestine arabs created by Arafat, arabs in modern israel were never called palestinians, as it was jews, who got called palestine by romans. Genocide is population of arabs growing from 1.5 mil to 12 mil? Yeah, go learn about holocoust and see what is real genocide. And last, every peace propositon was declined by arabs, as an idea of israel for them is not existing. And also how do you start the wars and then cry about tiny little israel beating you. And about Usa, they give us 4 billions of aid. We have budget of 165 billions. So yeah, even without Usa, we doing alright, and if we wanted to do real genocide, palestine would be parking lot in 2 days.
@ Double wow. I left a comment and it was removed, and a second comment that was removed. I simply wanted to express the realities of one tiny Jewish state surrounded by 22 hostile Arab Islamic states. Generally an argument for Israel existing. But TH-cam bans me.
In the end this is about humans. I'm heartbroken for the palestinian people in Gaza. But I can also feel for Israelis. We don't need more hate in this conflict... It feels like it will never stop.
How can it stop when you force millions of Palestinians , their children and future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? And the west is complicit in this providing diplomatic and military support to the Israelis. Why can't you have equal rights, for Jews, christians and Muslims? The Zionist will never agree to this.
It’s can stop anytime when Palestinians choose to stop the violence. Before the first intifada there where no checkpoints no borders no walls mostly chill everyone could go everywhere.
@@gisch9393 The problem is the Israelis are so indoctrinated in their upbringing that majority consider themselves as special,"chosen" people and hence feel entitled to all the land, always potray themselves as the victims hence never the aggressor and they consider the Palestinians as less than human. They will never agree in granting the Palestinians their freedom.
His definition for Zionism is completely incorrect and over simplistic. Zionism is an ethnocultural nationalist[b] movement that emerged in Europe in the late 19th century and aimed for the establishment of a Jewish state through the colonization. The leaning of Zionism toward ethnicity instead of religion makes it inherently racist. True there are lands that prefer different religions on the basis of a national ideology not race like every other country even America. The continued colonization of another people’s land and homes and property is against international law. The preference of one group of people over another based on race is apartheid. This is where Zionism goes terribly wrong!
Palestinians are a product of Arab/Muslim colonisation, plus if you go to the British land survey of 1945, the Palestinians owned 3.3% of the land. The wealthy Arab land owners (absentee) owned 16.5% of the land. The Jews owned 8.6%. The other. The other 70% was state land (uninhabitanted), transferred from the Ottomans, to the British, to the UN, then finally to Israel. Israel was created out of nearly 80% of non-Arab owned land. So how was the land colonised. Also Zionism is a national liberation movement of the Jewish people, just as there was a general upsurge of national consciousness and aspiration that overtook most other people starting in the mid-1800’s, that was in direct response to anti semitism. Zionism is incompatible with racism - it is rooted in principles of freedom, democracy, equality and social justice. Zionism promotes the Jewish connection to the land of Israel going back to Biblical times, it does not denigrate other religions or nationalities. Arabs living in Israel have rights of citizenship and equality. Arguments that Israel’s “Law of Return” makes Zionism racist since non-Jews are not accorded automatic citizenship is specious as Israel has regular procedures, similar to many other countries, for non-Jews to obtain Israeli citizenship. Israel is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country. Israel has welcomed Ethiopian Jews, Indian Jews, North African Jews, Jewish Refugees from expelled from Arabic and other Moslem countries, European Jews - a diverse group of Jews - black, brown, oriental and white. So how is it racist?
"The leaning of Zionism toward ethnicity"? and which ethnicity are we talking about? Israel is home to amongst others, mainly jewish population (75-80%~) from all kinds of ethnicities of African, European, (north and south) American and Asian jews, so what are you trying to achieve with false information that can be verified easily?
@@LBALucas111 Only a racist ideology considers the racial ethnic make up of native people living in a land then prefers another people from another land based on its alleged unproven ties to a tribe or race of people. You proved my point brilliantly and sadly all at the same time. God bless you and guide you. God doesn’t care about your race but your deeds. This is why Israel is a abomination.
@@LBALucas111 LOL i literally laughed out loud. You are really drinking the kool-aid! Zionism is equality for who exactly?! Please tell any Palestinian or person accused of being a Palestinian like me this! You need God.
It's simple: you see those people who lived there for thousands of years and have keys and deeds and actual DNA proof alongside actual footage and culture and authentic cuisine? Yeah? Give the land back to them! People from anywhere else? Bon Voyage!
Palestine was hardly populated. In Gaza alone today live more people than in Palestine in 1880. And do you really believe, all those arabs origin from this region?
@@ThomasVWorm "Palestine was hardly populated" tells me everything about your knowledge of population growth and how you approach the subject here! Is it the old "A land without a people for blah blah blah"? 😏 Also, you know that Arab are not a race, don't you? Sudanese and Lebanese are both Arabs, buddy! Identity might change, DNA doesn't! Think of it this way: there were no such thing as being "British" in the 1600s! YKW, forget everything I said, watch 2 - very short - videos on TH-cam: 1- Judaism is just a religion not a race, a people or an ethnicity, Yaakov Shapiro 2- Palestine... Fully Furnished by Amer Zahr. ... then come back again and repeat what you said above! Go ahead, I trust you have a thirst for knowledge, not just trolling!
@@ThomasVWorm Than you for acknowledging that there was/is a "Palestine"! 😁 Also, in 1880, there was less than 500k in Lebanon, and less than 300k in Jordan. Do you see a trend here, buddy? How many Israelis were there, not only in Palestine, but in the entire world, in 1880? A big, huge, goose egg...ZERO! 'nuff said!
@@SaeedMSR in 1880 there lived about 13'000-20'000 jews in Palestine. They were never fully gone. And the way you count them: there were no Palestinians too.
Your definition of zionism is not what has been put into practice. And talking about a state is very different from talking about a place where one can live in peace.
@@Shahak-EN *The Zios have killed 40'000 and injured 90'000 Palestinians.* *You just forgot a small point, that they Zios have been fighting and killing the Natives since the beginning of mass immigration to occupy "THE LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE, FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND".* *EXCEPT THE LAND WAS NOT WITHOUT PEOPLE!*
It's too complicated for any of us and that is why these issues are handled by the UN, ICC and ICJ. All that is required of us is the support for International Law.
10 years ago I would agree. But it has been proven that there can never be a 2 state-solution of the current land-strip. Adjust to increase the borders of Israel, especially Jerusalem and every central area, move some borders-areas to Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and that is it. Enough is enough.
Wow, impressive, you solved it so quickly! A pity that such a talent for international politics lies hidden in TH-cam comments and not the UN or something.
True, enough is enough, the Israeli apartheid state has destroyed any chance of a two-state solution with its aggressive colonial policy. The only justifiable solution is the abolition of Israeli apartheid and the ethno-state in favor of a one-state solution in which everyone lives with equal rights and the indigenous population has the full right of return
@@simonpantermuller6997 the only apartheid states are the apartheid muslims state surrounding Israel , in my city alone I can drive 10 minutes and find a mosque or a church , you don't know what apartheid is . On the other hand you can't enter mecca in saudi arabia if you are not muslim ,this is real apartheid , and you can't pray on temple mount if you are a Jew because of that stupid section in the agreement with jordan (which is by definition apartheid) . And if you're against Israel being "an ethno state" you should also be against Islamic and arab ethno states that actually have muslims and other ethnicities having more rights than other populations . Why don't you ask a one state for turks and kurds in turkey ? Or allawyian and kurds in syria ? Do you even know how many different ethnicities there are in some of these countries? Syria is an ethno state Iran is an ethno state Sudan is an ethno state Lebanon is an ethno state , Afghanistan is an ethno state And the list goes on and on *And all of these countries I've mentioned and others that are ethno states are also apartheid states. But you only care if it's a Jewish state . One state solution will be suicide with two populations which one of them is a hams /terrorist population is suicide! We can't have that!
@@Orange7825 apparently the talents working at the UN are telling us that antisemitic terrorism is just israels fault. So he could actually work there.
It's a land conflict. A bunch of Europeans decided to colonize yet another area of the world, and the indigenous population has been resisting ever since. It's not that complicated.
@@diogoalmeida6721 the arabs colonized it, they came from the Peninsula. Israel is in the Levant since almost 4000 years, 1000 years before any foot of arab or muslim. It is Israel's land since ever, they the indigenious there, yet that doesnt make the arabs less indigenious, and btw fasho Hamas are not resistance, nor rape. They are nazis.
@@diogoalmeida6721 and each jew and israeli in this world (including me) has its roots in the Levant, exactly there. We are not Europeans, not even white. We are ancient people. Please get your facts straight.
If Xionism is about living in peace you can do that without genociding or occupying other nations. And if you read Theodore Hertzel's writings you will know that replacing and diasporing the local people was always part of the plan. You can have your own definition but it doesn't reflect the current ruling or the previous founding notion Xionism was built on and defined by.
Theodor Herzl was not the founder of Zionism. Zionism is the proactive movement of Jews to Israel. He did found the term Zionist, but he, used it as someone who simply seeks a homeland for the Jews. He did not mean Israel by it. His contribution was to establish a forum, known as the Zionist congress of all the various zionist groups that already existed.
Herzl's Zionism was born out of a disappointment with the attempts of Jewish integration (or the emancipation) in Europe, fully becoming disillusioned with it after covering the Dreyfus affair In that way, Zionism was a reaction to European failures in overcoming antisemitism
Important to add that Zionism is more than just about Jews having a state for the Jewish people but also to make the return of Jews to the Promised land of Judah. And this is also not about religion, being a Jew is your nationalism, Jews are a people, an identity (call it Israelite to wrap your head around it).
Just like Canada is a colonialist endeavor, so is Israel. In order to carve a Jewish state from land where Jews did not hold the majority of population, that requires displacement - just as the Inuit were displaced by European settlers in Canada. If the rationale is that other religions get to have religious states so Judaism should also have one, are those other religious states true democracies that respect the equal rights of all? No. Anglo European settlers got to commit a genocide in North America, so it’s only fair for Jews to be able to do something like that as well doesn’t make Zionism seem so attractive. To those not blinded by the Zionist bias, Islamic State and Jewish state seem like very similar ideas but different flags.
Anglo-European settlers did already have a country. The jews do not commit a genocide. This is the plan of the Gaza strip and their leaders from the Hamas. In Israel a palestinian Israeli can be judge at the supreme court. To give you an idea, what genocide means: here in Germany between 1933-1945 we had only one position available to jews: a place in the gas chamber.
Yes, you can call Israel the colonizers. The issue is why don't you protest yourselves being the colonizers. The difference is that Canadians and Americans and Australians killed almost all local population and Israel did not.
@ we can’t change the past but we can heed the wisdom of Proverbs 14:9 and acknowledge error and seek reconciliation. You are correct about America, Australia, and Canada. I support policies of reconciliation. I also oppose my tax dollars funding apartheid. If you don’t like Americans commenting of Israel then join the protest in opposing US tax dollars propping up Israel’s war machine.
What the situation is making complex is that there are several groups on both sides on that small piece of land. There are people who believe the land is theirs and nobody else's (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want to live in peace together in one state (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want a two state solution (Palestinians and Israeli), etcetera, etcetera. But none of those groups is capable to compromise or project the way to achieve this goal where everybody (or the large majority) benifits. I condone any violence and oppression, doesn't matter what side. But to be honest, the battle is not fair and Palestinians are more of a victim at this point. The solution has to come of Israeli side to be willing to help their own neighbors.
I don't believe the people who believe the land is solely their can cooperate or reach any kind of negotiation with those who want to share or to have two separate countries. The first group are the extremists with the loudest voices (sadly) who are covering everything anyone else is saying
Let's be clear here. The ones not willing to compromise are the Israeli. The Palestinian perspective is entirely understandable and the fact that they accept a two state solution already shows how much they are willing to compromise. The ones who are denying that reality can be found on the Israeli side.
When debating people online, I tend to find that the only reasonable people on both sides this issue are the ones from the Israeli and Palestinian sides. Everyone else seems to think this issue is not super complex and can be summed up as one side being good and one side being evil. Both sides have a near endless list of ways they have been wronged and things they themselves did which were quite bad. It is complex!
Not complex at all. Like any long historical process, there are lots of intricate details one can dive into if one wants to, but at its root, this is a simple land conflict. Some European jews decided (for a variety of reasons) to establish an ethnostate in Palestine, who at the time only had a 1-3% jewish population (and did not want a state). This movement got the backing of the British empire. The colonists managed to ethnically cleanse half the indigenous population, and founded their ethnostate. Then, that ethnostate militarily occupied the remaining lands of the indigenous population, but did not absorve this population. The indigenous population has been resisting their occupation and overall dispossession ever since. Not complex at all.
I salute you for your level-headedness, your sense of nuance, your critical thinking and your predisposition to peaceful co-existence -- and for your ability to maintain a sense of humor while discussing these very thorny issues. All of that said, I think there are some significant fallacies in this video. "[Zionism just means] for Jewish people to have a place where they can live in peace." No, that's not what Zionism says. Even at its most tolerant and liberal, Zionism says that Jews should have a HOMELAND where they can live in peace as nationals of their own sovereign country, whereas those who are not Jews would not be nationals of that country. In practice, establishing such a homeland would come at the expense of people already living there, and would lead to massive displacement and potentially genocide, as indeed is happening now in Israel/Palestine. I agree that everyone (not just Jews) deserves to "have a place where they can live in peace," of course. Sadly, there are many (not just Jews) who are at risk and not safe in their home countries or elsewhere. But it would be ludicrous to call for the establishment of a sovereign country for every single group that is unsafe -- say, a sovereign nation-state homeland exclusively for LGBT+ folk, or exclusively for people living with disabilities, or for battered wives or any other at-risk demographic, where anyone who did not belong to that group (including those indigenous people already living in the area designated as the homeland) would be violently expelled. "There's a bunch of Christian states, a bunch of Muslim states; there should be one annoying Jewish state." A significant 31.6% of humans are Christians and 25.8% are Muslims, while only 0.2% are Jews. And yet there is no state on earth that is constitutionally defined as "the nation state of the Muslim people" or "the nation state of the Christian people," with a Law of Return that guarantees immediate citizenship in that country to any member of the religion worldwide. (Hindus are 15%, Buddhists are 10%, and neither of them has called for or colonized a national homeland.) To my knowledge, Judaism is the only religion that has defined itself as a sovereign people with the right to citizenship in a sovereign nation-state homeland reserved only for members of that religion. "[The definition of Zionism] doesn't say anything about occupying Gaza. It doesn't say anything about Palestinians -- none of that." First: This is factually incorrect. Many of the foundational documents of Zionism (written by Pinsker, Herzl, Motzkin, Ruppin, Zangvil, Ben Gurion, and others) openly advocated for "transfer" (ethnic cleansing) of the Palestinian population out of Palestine to make room for a Jewish homeland. Second: Even if the foundational definitions of Zionism did not advocate occupation, ethnic cleansing, or genocide (and they do), Zionism would still be responsible for the way its own ideology has played out. By way of analogy: Foundational Communist ideology does not always explicitly call for the kind of violence and human rights violations against the people which have occurred in practice in Communist countries, but Communism is still responsible for the atrocities that have taken place in its name. The State of Israel could not have arisen without the 1947 Nakbah, and regardless of any foundational definitions of Zionism it is responsible for the genocide of 2023 and 2024.
All of this 🙏 it’s fucking sad that when someone says “hey how about we talk about solutions that don’t involve unaliving the people of either side” they’ll be either called a terrorist or a Nazi 🥴 make it make sense… Thanks for your words. It really should be self explanatory.
I can appreciate that sentiment. However, the comedian is gaslighting everyone when he equates this sentiment with "zionism". Zionism is what created the ethnostate of Israel, a *state for the Jewish people*, in a land that originally had only a 1-3% jewish presence. How do you think this was achieved? Zionism's goal is the creation and maintenance of this ethnostate, *not peaceful coexistence".
Zionism is an ideology, specially the political Zionism, which has evolved in an extremist ideology nowdays! As all wrong and extremist ideologies will come to an end sooner or later! So people can live in peace hopefully! Nevertheless Israeli society will have some ethical and moral issues to address in the future!
You think all the people are extremist, like the people Netanyahu relies on to stay in power? You are aware, I hope, that the people who were slaughtered on Oct. 7 were more likely than anyone to want to peacefully share the land with the Palestinians. Hamas knew that. It didn't matter.
3379 is Résolution in 1975 have aprouved by majorité of the UN states, described and denounces the zionisme like racist, ostracist, segregionist, fascist...ideology. The Résolution was proposed by Soviét Union. And after it collapse, has been removed by US and they vassals. 1991
No it's not. You took an old concept from 100 years ago that is not used in Israel today, made up a all new meaning for it and decided to apply it on all israelis. I must say here when we see you are using the word zionist we are very confused
The French are interesting. We were on a cruise ship, and a stand-up comedian asked for the nationalities present, went through a few, then one said French, so he asked where they lived, they said Montreal. That gave the comedian an excuse to explain, at length, that that is Canada, he took some time, it was very funny. I don't think they got it. Anyway, you at least have a balanced position, no one side is correct. There is no excuse to murder innocent civilians.
context is important. so is how people interpret a word like Zionism. disputing a definition doesn't really help move the situation forward. we should focus on intentions, morals, values, and human rights. what you said about the Israeli singers coming under threat is fair, they have nothing to do with the conflict and are innocent, just like all the civilians in Palestine and Israel that are caught in the crossfire of a war against an apartheid state. its the same story every time and it ALWAYS ends badly. all we can do is try our best to stop it happening again
You do realize you telling people what their own movement is about would be outright rejected for any other ethnic or racial group? Try telling the Black Lives Matter movement or the Native American tribes what they're about and see how far that gets you. There are violent settlers, and I not only don't support them - I think the entire idea of west bank settlements is anti-zionist at its core. You don't get to define me or my beliefs.
@@int0x2e if it’s your belief to oppress a certain group of people then we do get to define you. we define it as oppression. that’s exactly what the black lives matter movement is about - it’s not about about a new black world order as the racists like to believe. it’s about equal rights for black people which they don’t have under deep rooted systemic oppression. literally the same thing is going on in Isreal and so many other countries. at the heart of every movement are shared values. otherwise you don’t have a movement, you have an agenda to fuck some people over. even the native americans (also not a movement btw) had a culture of non-ownership of the land and valuing nature. this is respecting the ‘rights’ of the natural environment and i would be all for that if that’s where the discussion is headed. But it’s not. it’s caught up in vengeful ideologies about definitions and semantics which do nothing but cause more suffering.
@@yoezra i’ve never been to auschwitz but it’s clear what was going on… you should be more precise when contesting. be specific on what you disagree with otherwise you don’t have a point or argument
@@int0x2e my comment got banned so i’ll tldr if your movement is oppressing a minority, then it’s not a movement, it’s an agenda and it’s defined as oppression. black lives matter was a movement for equal rights for black people under deep rooted systematic oppression, not an agenda for a new world order all movements have shared values “native american” is not a movement, its a culture with values that are also shared by many
Yeah and he says every government has something to criticise like what's isreel is doing little damage while it's committed to genocide the whole Palestinian population to take their right to "exist" on that so called promised land, every country religion is peacefully chosen by its people not by colonising and ethnic cleansing
This is the best and most balanced explanation of Zionism I could find, that’s also accessible and coherent. I’ve been struggling with explaining it to my friends, I’ll send them this link. Thanks man. Am Israel chai.
I mean yeah the Jews should be able to have a country, the problem is usually if you want one people to have land you need to take it from someone else and that someone is very rarely happy about it. Especially when you started out telling them you were going to let them govern their own territory after generations of rule by a foreign born empire and then be like “psyche!” and give that territory to someone else.
Very proud he said he is a zionism, it just mean jews want to live. And always make me crazy people so mad there is a jewish state when there are many muslims and christian states. Like its a big no no
You talk as if people can just say "now I want my state". It's not how it works. If Israel had been established in an unoccupied island somewhere, no one would care. The problem is that Israel was founded as a colonial project, with the help of a colonial power, via the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population. That is what people object to, with good reason.
@@diogoalmeida6721 If you open Pandora's box a lot of people around the world would owe the Jews living in Israel plenty. The Iraqi government owes me 20 million dollars. Plus the Jews bought the land from the British. and the only reason they were kicked out was that they tried to kill the Jews. If they hadn't attempted who knows maybe history would have been different. They were the ones who sided with Hitler, so they paid the price.
@@aaddaamm1100 why does it matter who I am and where I am from? I "feel" like I can talk on the subject because this is History 101. Anyone can and should talk be able to talk about it.
Thank you Shahak for acknowledging Palestinian rights to exist .. I wasn’t a Zionist but if being a Zionist means an establishment to a Palestinian state too then I’m a Zionist ☮️🙏🏻
Well I don't speak for all of us but I would say many of us left this don't make exceptions for Israel and we like the explicitly multi-ethnic vision of rojava advocated by Abdullah Oulcan
2:46 the difference is that Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to it's native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
Canada literally started recognizing the atrocities 5 minutes ago. They’re still digging out bodies. And what work is Canada doing for reparations other than performative land acknowledgments? Ah yes. Canada: We acknowledge we stole your land but we aren’t giving it back! Israel is the most successful decolonization project in history. This is what “land back” looks like. Jews took back a tiny portion of their ancient homeland. Like 10% and Arab colonizers refuse to accept it. It’s as if indigenous peoples in Canada said please give us 10% of Canada back as reparations. Would you? If yes, then it’s exactly what Jews did. If not, then you’re just a phoney. Land back doesn’t mean we say we are sorry. It means righting a wrong in a concrete fashion. Palestinian Arabs have Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinian Jews have Israel. Seems fair as f to me.
@yitzhakspolter9551 the last one was in 2020 when the Natives held the country hostage through a blockade of rails that affected $250B worth of goods being transported effecting everyone right across the country. Canada negotiated with the Native leaders to deesculate and settle the conflict. Not send in the military. Anyone with a brain knows that's what you're not supposed to do. If Canada did send in the military against their native population, everyone in the world should be standing in opposition of that regardless of how many lives are at risk. Let me post it again, Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to its Native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
@yitzhakspolter9551 also, is the occupying power doesn't have the right to defend itself against those it is occupying. Those being oppressed have every right to fight for their freedom through armed resistance. That's International Law. Don't like it, don't occupy and start treating everyone--EVERYONE with the same rights. What happened on 10/7 did not happen in a vacuum
@@itaymry You "support Zionism" yet don't know what the Talmud teaches...very nice. Ponder. Btw, the Upanishads are beautiful. May all sentient beings transcend suffering.
@@czouridesboy, you don’t understand English very well, do you? He did NOT ask what the Talmud is- he asked what YOU think it is! Understand the difference….?
Best thing you said: "I'm against states being religious". Such a shame Britain didn't leave Palestine with a secular democracy. Then everyone there could have lived in peace regardless of religion and ethnicity. It's not too late. It's the only way forward.
Israel was created by socialists, many of whom were full-blown atheists. The Arabs were and continue to be far more driven by faith than the Israel that existed for many years. The number of religious fanatics in Israel has increased, which means that like Hamas and other Islamist groups, they are backed by God. And when you believe that, there is no compromise.
@@ThomasVWorm Islamism as a political movement is a much later invention, funded by the US and its allies, to fight communism. Most Arab countries at that time were nationalists, and there is little reason to think Palestinians would have been any different.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Hamas emerged in the late 80s. Look at the Arab states around Israel, like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. Were they Islamic states? The whole islamism being in the way of Palestinians having their own state is a canard.
It's not complicated. It's a simple land dispute. The state of Israel was founded by ethnically cleansing the land it occupies from its indigenous population. The indigenous population has been trying to either get it back or at least trying not to lose more of it.
it is not quite accurate. It should include 'within historical Palestine' or however you want to name the area, which complicates matters substantially, because it involves the very real possibility (some might say inevitability) that the creation of that land for the jews would be at the expense of the many people(s) living there who up until that point (certainly collectively) formed the majority, whereas the jews had been a minority, a portion of those Jews were even there because of the Zionist movement itself. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the root idea of Zionism, but there is a high possibility of that project not being fair to others and it's the failure to avoid that unfairness, by the leaders of not just Israel & the Palestinians but by the whole world, is what people take issue with and why Zionism has a very bad reputation and understandably so. Even a large portion of Jews disagree with Zionism, for political, religious, social or other reasons. Distilling complicated issues down to one liners doesn't serve understanding, in my opinion. It mainly serves misunderstanding. The age of memes is not very helpful in my opinion. It can help to introduce novices to a subject, but it requires context and further explanation. A world where people just ping pong one liners at each other is a world that will bear few solutions. my €0,02
193 countries in the world: 67 Roman Catholic 49 Islamic 49 Protestant 14 Eastern Orthodox 3 Hindu And only ONE Jewish country. That's not too much to ask. And we're not asking.
There are no catholic or protestant countries. That means there are no countries where that is expressly enshrined in the constitution. No religion should be enshrined in a constitution. By being that way, it automatically labels you as an apartheid state when the constitution favours one religion or ethnicity over another. Modi is trying to get that in India but so far he has not been successful. India, also known as Bharat, is a Union of States. It is a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic with a parliamentary system of government. Saudi Arabia for instance is a muslim country. But using one of the most repressive regimes in the world as a template, it shows a serious lack of democracy and logical thinking
I agree Zionism isn’t a big request if Jewz can find a piece of land where there are no people and live there … (a land without people for a people without a land). but there is no land without people 😔 the land of Milk & Honey was filled with Phillistines, Amonites, Samaritans, Canaanites, Gomorrites and the so-called “Chosen People” attacked them and persecuted them using slings (David) and trumpets (Joshua) and … why not try living with them instead ? we did it here in South Africa … you could to ! (you may have to declare Zionism a mistake …)
Except more than half of Israel are people whose grandparents were expelled and pressured out from Muslim countries - like Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Egypt. And they are people of color.
@@roejogan9322 why is that relevant? Just look at all the PMs in Israel's history and look where they came from. The fact that the Israelis decided to conspire to bring Arab jews from other countries to Israel at a later date does not change the fact that it is an European colony.
A Jewish state is not a big ask. I agree. But it is a big ask when to make that state that means somebody else has to get up and leave or else. My wife is Assyrian. They haven't had a country once biblical times. Should they be able to just move some people from their land and say we deserve this, let's make two states so we both can have peace. The only people who agree with that are the ones whose land isn't being taken.
I'm non Jewish non Muslim and from England and you can't act like Zionist isn't the problem even the orthodox Jews are against Zionism but the thing that we all across the world are disgusted in is the occupation in Palestine and Lebanon and the genocide that's what we are against
No idea where you're getting your "facts" from mate, but none of what you said is true. The "Jews" who claim they're "against Zionism" are fakers who are spreading disinformation - I saw a group of them at a free palestine encampment protest, where they set up a Sukka at the encampment to show their support as "Jewish Voices for Palestine", but they knew so little about Judaism, they put the Sukka under a tree, which violates Jewish law. No one called them out on it, probably because there was not a single Jew around, or at least none who felt safe enough to speak up. And if your environment isn't even safe enough for Jews to stop you from appropriating their religion wrong, how do you expect any of the rest of what you're hearing "from Jews" to be any closer to reality? It's very obvious that no one in those movements is talking to actual Jews, or considering real Jews at all - they prefer to just tokenize whichever fake Jews they can find, who will parrot anything that you want to hear, because they're too afraid to think for themselves, or because they're a straight-up faker who wants to delegitimize real Jewish voices by appropriating the Jewish identity in this way. The "Jews" who you're talking to are, realistically, not Jewish, and at the very least, don't care at all about Judaism or preserving it, or about the safety of Jews in general.
Not what Zionism means. Lots of movements and ideologies exist and have existed within Jewish culture that seek to answer how the jewish people can exist and thrive in peace in this world. Zionism is just one of them. What sets Zionism apart is exactly the fact that it proposes that the only way we can get "Jews living in peace and harmony" is by creating an ethnostate. In Palestine. Where only 1-3% of the population was Jewish at the time (and were not zionist either). Stop trying to make Zionism mean something that it does not.
Really? Why did they have to remove the Palestinians from their land? Have you heard of 1948??? If I like my neighbor's house and just want to live peacefully in his house, should I force my neighbor out? And continue living peacefully in his house? Would that be legal? Would that be right?
I appreciate the fact that he has a sane view regarding the solution to the conflict (a Palestinian state), but a lot of the rest is highly questionable, and it shows how deeply ingrained zionist propaganda can be that his take is seen as a moderate one. Equating Zionism (a not very old movement, contrary what he said) with "wanting a country where jewish ppl can be safe" is patently false. If that were the case, then modern zionism would be advocating for mass immigration to the US, where jewish ppl have been able to flourish in peace and safety. Zionism has always been an European nationalistic movement. It is not about finding a place where the "jewish ppl can be safe", but rather founding *a national state for the jewish people*, and since the end of the 19th century, the location for that state has been identified as Palestine, where at the time only 1-3% of the population was jewish (and was also deeply anti-zionist btw). How does one make that happen? By taking the land from their inhabitants and driving them away. This is not a "very complicated conflict". It's a conflict about land. European jews arrived en masse in the span of some 30 years, some as settlers and some as refugees and drove the Palestinians off their land, with the full support of the largest and most powerful European power of the time (England). It's mind boggling that this guy's response to the Québecois Canadian who called him a colonizer was to huff and puff about how the Canadian was too. Well, there you go. You acknowledge that you took someone else's land (not that long ago either, my father is older than the State of Israel) and they want it back. Not that hard to understand. Now to the second point: why doesn't Israel simply give citizenship to all the Palestinians that it is currently militarily occupying? Because then the Israeli jews would be in the minority, and Israel was founded on the premise of being a national state *for the jewish people*, an ethnostate. There could be a single national state for all the inhabitants who call the land of Palestine/current state of Israel their home. This would be a multi-ethnic and religiously diverse country, perhaps even a liberal democracy. But it would not be Israel anymore, because it would not be *for the jewish people* alone. Hence, it cannot exist. Zionism is not a neutral stance. It is not about keeping jewish people safe. It a colonial project, one that sees having an ethnostate as a founding principle.
Israel Zangwill a staunch British Zionist and partner with Herzl, later recanted and suggested not for mass migration as would cause conflict with locals. He wrote The Future of Commerce in Palestine and the Voice of Jerusulem. His
There should be a palestinian state. Just not next to Israel. Anywhere in Saudi Arabia is fine. In Iraq. In Iran. As long as its in an existing Muslim country, that is fine. Judea and Samaria belong to Israel and there never was a palestinian state there and there never will be. The entire cause is plain old Jew hate. Nothing else. Oldest hatred in the world.
Neither Israel till 1948. Palestine exist way longer than the Israel. It's not a state because it's ruling under empire till the occupiers established their state there
Yes, as a jewish person, i was taught exactly that about Zionism. How can zionism be about “occupying Palestine,” if Herzl was a modern zionist, ffrom the 1800s. It’s about peaceful coexistence where we aren’t unalived for being ethnically jewish
And the Zionism before the modern era - Rabbi Yehuda Halevi and Rambam in the 12th century, Ezra and Nehemiah in the 5th century (before Islam was created)... these are only the most famous names, but Zionism has always existed since the deportation and was formed as a national movement following the awakening of nationalism in Europe and the world
You were taught wrong. Read what the founders and luminaries of the zionist movement and founders of the state of Israel wrote. It was about the creation of an ethnostate. If peaceful coexistence followed, then great. If not, so be it. That was/is not the goal.
There's nothing sane about zionism, and yes it is a colonialist movement at its core and to frame the idea of "one little Jewish state" as an inoffensive and just idea without the context of what that actually means is racist and ignorant. If you actually study the words and actions of the founding forefathers of zionism it was very explicit from the outset and the early zionists made it clear that colonizing Palestine would require enthnically clensing the native population. The origin of the conflict is incredibly simple, however he wishes to frame it otherwise - one group of people invaded and stole the land of another and far from trying to live in peace, have been murdering that native population and annexing more and more land. As far as solutions go, a two state solution is no longer viable and absurd when considering that Israel now occupies and or controls all of historic Palestine. If this comedian, or any Israeli is actually serious about living in peace, then dismantle the apartheid state and allow the full right of return for the palestinian diaspora and have a one state solution that is neither jewish, muslim or christian but rather a secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens from the river to the sea. Liberals tend to believe that they are reasonable and open minded and peace loving whilst at the same time supporting the inhumane systems that maintain their privilege. You can't have it both ways.
Literally, there was no ethnic cleansing, once the number of Arabs in Israel is higher than it it used to be before 1948 and also a colony is a land we're its resource are sent to a "colonialist" country. Which country is receiving Israelis resources for free or minimum prices? It doesn't even make sense what you said😂
In addition, if Hamas wins the war, which thank God won't happen, all jews will be murder, because it's one of their values. Also...diaspora? Are you joking? Do you know a religious group that had a forced diaspora and after droves of genocide attempts is finally with a state? JUDAISM! Arabs have Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt... while Israel is the only Jewish state. The sionist nation, the only democracy in the Middle East, is not considered apartheid since all religious and ethnic groups have the same rights. Although some citizens can seem racist, we can not compare with the racism and antissemitism in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt and many others. For example, in Saudi Arabia, jews can not be religious in public.
@@lesguuuuuuu the world's population is higher than it was in 1948 so what? Have there been no wars, genocide or ethnic clensing? Rwanda's population is higher now than it was in 1993, does that mean that there was no genocide in 1994? Be serious. In 1948-49, 750 thousand people were permanently displaced from what is now Israel and have been barred from returning for 76 years. Another 15 thousand people were massacred. When you say "Receiving for free" what exactly are you talking about? You mean what was stolen in the first place? Should indigenous Australians be thankful that Europeans drove them off their land and then doled out pitiful resources as a way of creating dependence and preventing self determination or political autonomy? Should Mexico feel thankful to the Spanish crown for being turned into a sweatshop for three hundred years and having its resources stolen while being forced to live off imports? That is colonialism, you take control of the local resources then control who can have it and how much. Look up the water crisis in the west bank and how the the illegal settlements and the Israeli state steal the water supply of the local population while drip feeding people. Read about the dietary calculations that the Israeli state made for the people of Gaza to keep them just above the starvation line. Right now the mask has fallen off and every human rights aid group in the world is alerting us of a looming famine, are they all not making sense? Are they all anti semetic? you can read the reports if you wish. But don't turn away from the horror of what is happening
The land of Israel was called Zion a thousand+ years before the arabs started identify themselves as arabs.. pretty sure that Jerusalem was declared as a capital of Israel thousand+ years before invention of Islam...and real name of the West bank is Judea and Samaria ..so stop calling the Jews settlers on the land where the jewish nation and two monoteistic religions Judaism and Christianity were born.
@@labradoriteatheart I think you're missing his point. He supports the existence of the state of Israel ("I believe there should be at least 1 jewish state") but is squirmy about the humanitarian aspects which is why he refers to the people who try and block aid as "settlers". This is the line between co-existence & supremacy that he's trying to draw. He likes aid to Gaza to ensure humanitarian success for Palestinian people, who he values as human life. The people who are trying to stop that are "settlers" because they're trying to extinguish the other race, more akin to The Trail of Tears, Nazi camps, etc. Furthermore, every state deserves to be criticized. Even the USA, where I'm from & will proudly represent, & never move away from, has many skeletons in its closet. Israel, Palestine, etc, don't deserve some sort of special treatment from their horrid governmental actions, founding, underpinning philosophies, etc. Every state is always capable of improvement, & supporting the idea of a safe haven for Jews can & should not be a forced choice with a safe place of co-existence with Palestinian people.
And they also claim that "hating zionists/zionism isn't anti semetic" But they believe in the protocols of the elders of ZION which is an antisemetic conspiracy theory made up by the Tzar of Russia secret police , now I wonder if an antisemetic conspiracy theory has the name of Zion in it's title if anyone can deny that there is a connection between jews and zion that it's so deep that even antisemites back in the day admitted it than how come antisemites today think they can actually lie about it being two separate things? (And even they were they are both bigotries regardless of their name) .
@@andrewli8305 the term "settlers " is also true for the arabs that have settled in Judea And for the rest of humanity. Everyone who is alive today Have had ancestors that settled somewhere sometimes on the expense of others The main problem isn't the so called settlers , the real problem is with the palastinan society .
This is so stupid. The whole blaming Canada, um the whole point of its happening now and things need to change. Not use the past as an excuse … Also complicated not one bit! People who actually looked into the history and saw how Israel became a country by illegal crime and the hijacking of British help
@@almoghadad856 it is a pithy accurate summary. What do you think it gets wrong? Was Israel not founded by ethnic cleansing the Palestinians? Did the British not create a lot of the conditions that allowed this to happen?
Israel was founded by war not "ethnic cleansing". and the British Aram embargoed Israel. After the Arab revolt in 1936 the British went against the Jews
@@almoghadad856 The ethnic cleansing was the goal of the war. Read Benny Morris' book on the conflict. It's all there. Yes, at times the British grew tired of the balancing act they created for themselves in cleaving Palestine into jewish and palestinian groups. During some time, they helped the jews, and then when that created too much tension with the local population, they scaled it back, and so on and so forth. It ended with Britain throwing the whole issue on the new formed UN's lap and the outcome we all know.
there is no muslim or christian state anywhere in the world, so he is wrong about that, because no muslim or christian can simply walk into another country and settle simply because they are muslim or christian, like they can with Israel simply because they are jewish. secondly, if his definition of zionism doesnt infer occupation of palestinian territory, then why in the next statement he said this is why he is for a 2 state solution, because that implies he is OK with the Nakba, and the Balfour declaration handing over control to jews with no referrendum of the palestinians living in that land at the time.
I too hope there can be a Palestinian state we could work towards. But the sad reality is, even before the inception of Israel, they’ve been more interested in killing Jews than getting a state. Hopefully that changes though, after the War
The sad reality is that Jews didn't come to Palestine in peace. They came to Palestine, from Europe with the intention of removing as many Muslims and Christians as they could get away with, in order to create an artificial majority. And they established terrorist groups and militias to do so. They slaughtered villages, bombed markets, hotels, and generally did not seek to live together with the Muslims and Christians, but to live in their lands, as an artificial ruling majority
You say the Palestinians are more interested in killing Jews. The Jews seem to be almost 50 times more successful in killing Palestinians, than Palestinians killing Jews. How can you believe such rubbish.
being neutral is siding with the oppressor - Nelson Mandela
The Opppressors are the Jew Hating Arabs and the Nazis.
Yes, down with Hamas!
Well, it's also stolen, they had to forcefully take it to have it.
Yeahhhh….no. You’re wrong, and so was the Nelson Mandela.
@@nicholasstephens1349 calling people "wrong" without proving that people was wrong is the most mature thing to do🤌🏻..........
I understand your take on Zionism, and I often feel that people who support Zionism see Zionism the way you describe it. My objection is, this is only a partial description of what Zionism is and what it looks like in practice. The bit abt Zionism you leave out is that it’s the establishment of Jewish self determination *in Palestine*. Hertz, the inventor of Zionism publicly stated that no forced transfers of people would be necessary, however, in his diary and private letters he sent to friends he conceded that forced and violent transfer of people would be a necessary prerequisite for the establishment of the state. Beyond that, early supporters of Zionism explicitly argued that because Zionism was inherently a colonial project, they would need the protection of states such as the UK to fund their protection from angry indigenous Palestinians (this is before the first settlements were even established). Finally, Zionism (while not explicitly) implies that Palestinians aren’t indigenous to the land (which is where the homeland bit comes from). This is partly because Zionism predates genetic testing, and was created during a time where Europe defined states by their ethnic make up rather than their history. Because Palestinians identified as Arab, Zionists simply assume their ancestors migrated to the land after a major exodus of Jewish people. Which isn’t technically untrue, but misses out a key detail, plenty of those Arabs had children with Jewish families and Christian families that were originally Jewish but converted during the Roman Empire. As it turns out, Palestinians are equally the descendants of Israelites (Canaanites) as Israelis. This reality doesn’t fit in the Zionist perspective because it challenges the idea that someone with a particular ethnicity or religion has more of a right to the land.
The problem Zionism has is the same problem that every colonial ideology has, exclusivity. Zionism wants the land exclusively for Jewish people, sure they can tolerate a small minority of Arabs as relatively well off 2nd class citizens but only insofar as they concede the land belongs to a single group of people, and that the Arabs don’t have too much political capital. If tomorrow Israel went “sorry for all of that killing and stealing land, Palestinians you get to live anywhere in the land and you get to vote in the election” that would be the end of Zionism, as the government would concede that Israelis don’t have an exclusive claim to land based on a “birth right”. And you wouldn’t a 2 state solution, you’d have a 1 state, where everyone has rights, you know, like other democratic countries.
As I say in the video, Zionism is older than Theodore Herzl and while many credit him as the founder of political Zionism, there are plenty of other forms of Zionism older than his that do not share all of Herzl‘s views and ideas.
@@Shahak-EN oh hey, thanks for your reply! I’ll look into older forms of Zionism that predate Herlz, and how that influences modern Israeli policy (if at all). Out of curiosity, how do you feel about a single state? As in, Israelis get to stay in their land with full rights along side Palestinians, + Israelis get access to Gaza and the West Bank, while Palestinians also get access to Israeli land (effectively opening everything up to everyone)?
@@saifalimuhannad2807 I feel like that's not a realistic solution right now. There's not enough trust and willingness on either sides for this to work. What happens with Hamas? What is the official language of Israel? Is it even called Israel? What about the risk of Jews becoming a minority again considering how that played out in Europe?
@@Shahak-EN ya you’re right, there are plenty of moving parts to establishing a single state. Beyond everything you mentioned, it wouldn’t be possible without the international community being involved in every step, which could be a difficult sell.
I will try to address some of your concerns. One of the reasons why I like a single state solution is because of the current population make up of the land, it’s almost a 50/50 split between Israelis and Palestinians. The reason why that’s a good thing is because it means that neither side can vote in a party which prioritizes the other. So parties are forced to be moderate and concede to each other in hopes of winning elections. So no full blown Jewish or Arab/muslim parliament. Also I’m a big believer in contact theory, the more Palestinians and Israelis hang out with each other, the less likely they are to try and kill each other. There’s a reason why the British thought to separate the mosques from synagogs and churches during the first wave of migration, the people got along too much during the first wave of immigration.
Secondly it avoids a violent disposition of the settlers in the West Bank, rather than forcing them all out, they get to stay and the people who lost their land are compensated somehow. This does mean amnesty for the settlers but I think that’s preferable over a war in the West Bank. Something like half the settlers are peaceful anyways.
In terms of a language, I mean Canada has 2 state languages, Hebrew and Arabic do have some similarities, I think both should be a national language.
Hamas (as well as other militia organizations) tend to become part of the military after a big change like this. The militias that help establish Israel for example became the IDF. Or as a condition of the agreement to have a single state, hamas ends its armed campaigns and decommission its weapons, like the IRA in Ireland. I think you’ll find that militias like hamas tend to stop existing when the circumstances that caused their existence are changed for the better.
I don’t really care what the land is called, as long as everyone on it is free and not under threat. But it’s a valid concern. I know Rhodesia tried to get called rhodesia-Zimbabwe after the bush wars (I think).
As it stands, I don’t like a 2 state solution because I feel that’s how we got here in the first place. It also is more unrealistic, part of the reason why you get hamas and lakud is that, the 2 groups are so isolated from each other and only meet up once every 2 years when they try to kill each other. That isolation only gets worse with a hard boarder not better. Secondly, what happens to the West Bank? The settlers can’t stay but if you try to move them it will almost certainly be violent. Not to mention that Israelis rely on the mound aquifer for fresh water which is in the West Bank. As it stands Israel takes over the mount aquifer and gives very little of it to Palestinians while making most of it undrinkable. Ok so the settlers stay? But then they commit acts of terror on Palestinians, or Palestinians retaliate which means idf gets involved which means more dead Palestinians. And like, the fuck is Gaza suppose to do on the other side? Ain’t no way it’ll be a part of the West Bank. Ya I don’t know, I prefer a single state over a 2 state.
@@Shahak-EN and none of them have become the political movement that ended up with the founding of Israel. It was the political zionism of Herzl and co. So that is what zionism means to most people. If you have a non-canonical definition, then maybe say it, instead of attempting to gaslight people.
This comedian is one that helped me get through the tough time of being a Jew in this time.
But none of what he said is true, are you fine with that? Go look this book up: The Empty Wagon by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro. The book is a compendium of the real origin of Zionism.
What kind of tough time?
@@lol311seriously?
@@cliomuse1206 Yes, like what kind of tough time?
@@lol311the Jews are one of the groups most affected by hate crimes. To this day, they are discriminated against and tormented, with or without Israel firing a single bullet.
I am Jew and a Zionist & you summed up exactly how I feel about the conflict.
same
@@jasonlobel4586
How can you justify eviction of Palestinian from their homes and force them , their children and their future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? That is the missing piece in his response.
כל הכבוד. אני מסכים איתך לגמרי לחלוטין ❤חמוד.
Yes
If European Jews insist upon having their own state, it should be in Europe, not at the expense of another people. Especially when that people gave refuge to the Jews when they were facing persecution from Christians in Europe.
I'm Arab, and I love everything you said here.
You're happy about the theft of land from other Arabs and the whole region being destabilized by the twisted ideology of Z'ism?
As an Israeli u warmed my heart. thanks mate! 💙 Israelies dont hate arab/muslims. we just want quiet and peace.
لو انت عربي اتفضل قول ليه هو صح بالعربي .. وياريت ميكونش عربي فصحى
احيّيك بجد @@aymanelhalawani8302
@@HOMiE-Rugsthen maybe end the occupation, siege, and military rule over Palestinians. Maybe stop forcefully dispossessing and displacing people and committing ethnic cleansing. My entire family was uprooted and forced out of their homes multiple times by Israel. And by the way, we are Christian Palestinians, so it’s not just Muslims or about religion. Go live in the occupied territories or Gaza for a few months if you want to see the unfortunate reality of how Israel treats “Arabs and Muslims” (or give us the dignity of calling us what we are, Palestinians. 👍🏽
Go build your promised land in Germany then 😅
😂😂😂😂 nah rasct cnt where not from Germany where from israel cry about it colinizer
We tried that before, now that are 6 million dead so we returned home to Judea. Deal
With it 😍
What’s hilarious to me is that for centuries, wherever Jews tried to make a living they kept being told to ‘go back to where they came from’.
Now that they have returned to their homeland, everyone is telling them to ‘go back to Europe or whatever’.
Why tf should they listen to the world anymore?
nope. that's not where jews are indigenous too
@@GGGG_3333 why tf would they do that?
Fully agree with you on zionism
Do you abide by the Talmud? It's demonic.
only its wrong. The earliest political Zionst was Rabbi Alkalai who called for a return to Zion (with the establishment of a bank or company like a railroad company.... his ideas were repeated by Hertzl fifty years later.) The idea was not territorialism (a jewish safe haven anywhere) but a return to our land in the land of Israel.
@1czechit1
Didn't understand if you agreed with zionist ideas or otherwise.
@@1czechit1 The idea of Jews returning to the holy land is a very old idea. Much of a typical Jewish prayer service is dedicated to the sanctification of that land.
You don't have a state by kicking other people out of their home. FO
I'm an Arab and I'm not against for the Jews to have a country for themselves, but one condition is to not engage in any genocide to accomplish that. they can buy land from country in the world, and they weren't the majority in any land, and no one wants to sell them any land to establish their own state on it ... then they can maybe go mars and establish it in there.
who the hell said every religion should have a state for only themselves? there are thousands of religions in the world, should each one of them have there own state? should scientology have a state for themselves? or maybe this rule only apply for Jewish people?
Jews bought a lot of the land off of the Arabs way before 1949.
22 Arab Muslim countries surrounding Israel. You’re an absolute hypocrite unless you’d like those countries to become secular or Christian. But guaranteed that whatever country you’re from, religious minorities have few rights there. By contrast, there are 2 million Arabs (Muslim, Christian and Druze) who have full rights in Israel.
lmfao, dont try to hide it, you definitily against jews. First of all it is our ancestral home, and we lived there 2000 years before islam was created. Second there were always jews. Third Palestine arabs created by Arafat, arabs in modern israel were never called palestinians, as it was jews, who got called palestine by romans. Genocide is population of arabs growing from 1.5 mil to 12 mil? Yeah, go learn about holocoust and see what is real genocide. And last, every peace propositon was declined by arabs, as an idea of israel for them is not existing. And also how do you start the wars and then cry about tiny little israel beating you. And about Usa, they give us 4 billions of aid. We have budget of 165 billions. So yeah, even without Usa, we doing alright, and if we wanted to do real genocide, palestine would be parking lot in 2 days.
Wow. One of the dumbest things I ever read. Thanks for that one
@ Double wow. I left a comment and it was removed, and a second comment that was removed. I simply wanted to express the realities of one tiny Jewish state surrounded by 22 hostile Arab Islamic states. Generally an argument for Israel existing. But TH-cam bans me.
In the end this is about humans. I'm heartbroken for the palestinian people in Gaza. But I can also feel for Israelis. We don't need more hate in this conflict... It feels like it will never stop.
How can it stop when you force millions of Palestinians , their children and future generation to live under a brutal apartheid Israeli rule? And the west is complicit in this providing diplomatic and military support to the Israelis. Why can't you have equal rights, for Jews, christians and Muslims? The Zionist will never agree to this.
80% of Israelis don't think they are killing enough Palestinians and believe they shouldn't allow humanitarian aid through.
It’s can stop anytime when Palestinians choose to stop the violence. Before the first intifada there where no checkpoints no borders no walls mostly chill everyone could go everywhere.
It wont. And I don't think the USA wants it to stop. They benefit from it.
@@gisch9393
The problem is the Israelis are so indoctrinated in their upbringing that majority consider themselves as special,"chosen" people and hence feel entitled to all the land, always potray themselves as the victims hence never the aggressor and they consider the Palestinians as less than human. They will never agree in granting the Palestinians their freedom.
Hi I am a Zionist
His definition for Zionism is completely incorrect and over simplistic. Zionism is an ethnocultural nationalist[b] movement that emerged in Europe in the late 19th century and aimed for the establishment of a Jewish state through the colonization. The leaning of Zionism toward ethnicity instead of religion makes it inherently racist. True there are lands that prefer different religions on the basis of a national ideology not race like every other country even America. The continued colonization of another people’s land and homes and property is against international law. The preference of one group of people over another based on race is apartheid. This is where Zionism goes terribly wrong!
Palestinians are a product of Arab/Muslim colonisation, plus if you go to the British land survey of 1945, the Palestinians owned 3.3% of the land. The wealthy Arab land owners (absentee) owned 16.5% of the land. The Jews owned 8.6%. The other. The other 70% was state land (uninhabitanted), transferred from the Ottomans, to the British, to the UN, then finally to Israel. Israel was created out of nearly 80% of non-Arab owned land. So how was the land colonised.
Also Zionism is a national liberation movement of the Jewish people, just as there was a general upsurge of national consciousness and aspiration that overtook most other people starting in the mid-1800’s, that was in direct response to anti semitism.
Zionism is incompatible with racism - it is rooted in principles of freedom, democracy, equality and social justice.
Zionism promotes the Jewish connection to the land of Israel going back to Biblical times, it does not denigrate other religions or nationalities.
Arabs living in Israel have rights of citizenship and equality.
Arguments that Israel’s “Law of Return” makes Zionism racist since non-Jews are not accorded automatic citizenship is specious as Israel has regular procedures, similar to many other countries, for non-Jews to obtain Israeli citizenship.
Israel is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country.
Israel has welcomed Ethiopian Jews, Indian Jews, North African Jews, Jewish Refugees from expelled from Arabic and other Moslem countries, European Jews - a diverse group of Jews - black, brown, oriental and white.
So how is it racist?
"The leaning of Zionism toward ethnicity"? and which ethnicity are we talking about? Israel is home to amongst others, mainly jewish population (75-80%~) from all kinds of ethnicities of African, European, (north and south) American and Asian jews, so what are you trying to achieve with false information that can be verified easily?
@ please think about what you are saying. What unites all Jews according to the state of Israel and Zionism? And how is “Right to return” verified?
@@LBALucas111
Only a racist ideology considers the racial ethnic make up of native people living in a land then prefers another people from another land based on its alleged unproven ties to a tribe or race of people. You proved my point brilliantly and sadly all at the same time. God bless you and guide you. God doesn’t care about your race but your deeds. This is why Israel is a abomination.
@@LBALucas111 LOL i literally laughed out loud. You are really drinking the kool-aid! Zionism is equality for who exactly?! Please tell any Palestinian or person accused of being a Palestinian like me this! You need God.
Humor ist das beste Waffen gegen Hasser.
It's simple: you see those people who lived there for thousands of years and have keys and deeds and actual DNA proof alongside actual footage and culture and authentic cuisine? Yeah? Give the land back to them!
People from anywhere else? Bon Voyage!
Palestine was hardly populated. In Gaza alone today live more people than in Palestine in 1880.
And do you really believe, all those arabs origin from this region?
@@ThomasVWorm "Palestine was hardly populated" tells me everything about your knowledge of population growth and how you approach the subject here! Is it the old "A land without a people for blah blah blah"? 😏
Also, you know that Arab are not a race, don't you? Sudanese and Lebanese are both Arabs, buddy! Identity might change, DNA doesn't! Think of it this way: there were no such thing as being "British" in the 1600s!
YKW, forget everything I said, watch 2 - very short - videos on TH-cam:
1- Judaism is just a religion not a race, a people or an ethnicity, Yaakov Shapiro
2- Palestine... Fully Furnished by Amer Zahr.
... then come back again and repeat what you said above! Go ahead, I trust you have a thirst for knowledge, not just trolling!
@@SaeedMSR in Palestine at 1880 the population was less than half a million.
@@ThomasVWorm Than you for acknowledging that there was/is a "Palestine"! 😁
Also, in 1880, there was less than 500k in Lebanon, and less than 300k in Jordan. Do you see a trend here, buddy?
How many Israelis were there, not only in Palestine, but in the entire world, in 1880? A big, huge, goose egg...ZERO!
'nuff said!
@@SaeedMSR in 1880 there lived about 13'000-20'000 jews in Palestine. They were never fully gone.
And the way you count them: there were no Palestinians too.
*Even Shakespeare in Othello called it Palestine. Idem for British lord Balfour*
As an insult to the indigenous Jews that still lived there. It was a name given by Romans after they colonized the Jewish homeland of Israel.
im a zionist too
not something u should be proud of
@@amie6048Found the guy who didn't watch the vid.
thanks, i really needed to know that
@@amie6048 why not? You got something against Jews having their own homeland?
@@talsingh451 no, we (people with souls) are against genocidal apartheid states.
Finally, a sane opinion
Check out his long format show from shortly after October 7, it was 25 minutes long and great .
Your definition of zionism is not what has been put into practice. And talking about a state is very different from talking about a place where one can live in peace.
Is there an uncut version? It looks like a compilation and nothing wrong with that, but I like to see the original take on the topic
I just edited some things that were repetitive or mispronounced, there aren’t any major points that were cut out.
@@Shahak-EN *The Zios have killed 40'000 and injured 90'000 Palestinians.*
*You just forgot a small point, that they Zios have been fighting and killing the Natives since the beginning of mass immigration to occupy "THE LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE, FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND".*
*EXCEPT THE LAND WAS NOT WITHOUT PEOPLE!*
איפה אתה מופיע? משער שאתה יודע עברית😂😂@@Shahak-EN
It's too complicated for any of us and that is why these issues are handled by the UN, ICC and ICJ. All that is required of us is the support for International Law.
אמנם לא מסכימה עם חלק ניכר מהדעות שלך אבל אתה מקסים ומודה ומעריכה כל מי שמצליח להעלות שביב של חיוך על פניי🙏🫶
אני יהודי שחי פה בגרמיה אני מכיר את שחק והוא אנטישמי מובהק שמתחנף לשמאל האנטיציוני ולערבים
Go back to Poland you Mileikowsky
I am with one side only and I'm proud of it.
עם ישראל חי
Loser!
מה אם אני אגיד עם פלסטין חי
10 years ago I would agree. But it has been proven that there can never be a 2 state-solution of the current land-strip. Adjust to increase the borders of Israel, especially Jerusalem and every central area, move some borders-areas to Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and that is it. Enough is enough.
Wow, impressive, you solved it so quickly! A pity that such a talent for international politics lies hidden in TH-cam comments and not the UN or something.
True, enough is enough, the Israeli apartheid state has destroyed any chance of a two-state solution with its aggressive colonial policy. The only justifiable solution is the abolition of Israeli apartheid and the ethno-state in favor of a one-state solution in which everyone lives with equal rights and the indigenous population has the full right of return
@@simonpantermuller6997indigenous population are jews, i doubt arabs will allow jews to return to their homeland
@@simonpantermuller6997 the only apartheid states are the apartheid muslims state surrounding Israel , in my city alone I can drive 10 minutes and find a mosque or a church , you don't know what apartheid is .
On the other hand you can't enter mecca in saudi arabia if you are not muslim ,this is real apartheid , and you can't pray on temple mount if you are a Jew because of that stupid section in the agreement with jordan (which is by definition apartheid) .
And if you're against Israel being "an ethno state" you should also be against Islamic and arab ethno states that actually have muslims and other ethnicities having more rights than other populations .
Why don't you ask a one state for turks and kurds in turkey ?
Or allawyian and kurds in syria ?
Do you even know how many different ethnicities there are in some of these countries?
Syria is an ethno state
Iran is an ethno state
Sudan is an ethno state
Lebanon is an ethno state ,
Afghanistan is an ethno state
And the list goes on and on
*And all of these countries I've mentioned and others that are ethno states are also apartheid states.
But you only care if it's a Jewish state .
One state solution will be suicide with two populations which one of them is a hams /terrorist population is suicide!
We can't have that!
@@Orange7825 apparently the talents working at the UN are telling us that antisemitic terrorism is just israels fault. So he could actually work there.
If someone says "It's very simple" about the conflict you know they wrong.
It's a land conflict. A bunch of Europeans decided to colonize yet another area of the world, and the indigenous population has been resisting ever since. It's not that complicated.
@@diogoalmeida6721 CLASSIC. Jews from Yemeni, Moroccan, Russian, Persian, Ethiopian origin can violate your claim.
@@diogoalmeida6721 the arabs colonized it, they came from the Peninsula. Israel is in the Levant since almost 4000 years, 1000 years before any foot of arab or muslim. It is Israel's land since ever, they the indigenious there, yet that doesnt make the arabs less indigenious, and btw fasho Hamas are not resistance, nor rape. They are nazis.
@@diogoalmeida6721 and each jew and israeli in this world (including me) has its roots in the Levant, exactly there. We are not Europeans, not even white. We are ancient people. Please get your facts straight.
If Xionism is about living in peace you can do that without genociding or occupying other nations. And if you read Theodore Hertzel's writings you will know that replacing and diasporing the local people was always part of the plan. You can have your own definition but it doesn't reflect the current ruling or the previous founding notion Xionism was built on and defined by.
Theodor Herzl was not the founder of Zionism. Zionism is the proactive movement of Jews to Israel. He did found the term Zionist, but he, used it as someone who simply seeks a homeland for the Jews. He did not mean Israel by it. His contribution was to establish a forum, known as the Zionist congress of all the various zionist groups that already existed.
To be honest, I think we should strive for the places where Jews already live, in Shahak's case Germany, to be safe. But maybe I am just naïve.
Sure, that would be great for everyone. But it's also good to have a Jewish country to fall back on, because you know :)
Herzl's Zionism was born out of a disappointment with the attempts of Jewish integration (or the emancipation) in Europe, fully becoming disillusioned with it after covering the Dreyfus affair
In that way, Zionism was a reaction to European failures in overcoming antisemitism
Important to add that Zionism is more than just about Jews having a state for the Jewish people but also to make the return of Jews to the Promised land of Judah. And this is also not about religion, being a Jew is your nationalism, Jews are a people, an identity (call it Israelite to wrap your head around it).
So all the Polish, Russian and other Eastern European Jews, Ashkenazi I believe they are called, are an ethnicity. No they are not.
Exactly! Just as the state propaganda of Israel teaches you.
If it seems too complicated it’s probably because people are deliberately making it seem too complicated to keep it from ever being figured out.
Just like Canada is a colonialist endeavor, so is Israel. In order to carve a Jewish state from land where Jews did not hold the majority of population, that requires displacement - just as the Inuit were displaced by European settlers in Canada. If the rationale is that other religions get to have religious states so Judaism should also have one, are those other religious states true democracies that respect the equal rights of all? No. Anglo European settlers got to commit a genocide in North America, so it’s only fair for Jews to be able to do something like that as well doesn’t make Zionism seem so attractive. To those not blinded by the Zionist bias, Islamic State and Jewish state seem like very similar ideas but different flags.
Anglo-European settlers did already have a country.
The jews do not commit a genocide. This is the plan of the Gaza strip and their leaders from the Hamas.
In Israel a palestinian Israeli can be judge at the supreme court. To give you an idea, what genocide means: here in Germany between 1933-1945 we had only one position available to jews: a place in the gas chamber.
@@ThomasVWorm I doubt Raphael Lemkin would agree with you that Jews should hold the monopoly on the term genocide.
You can have a state religion and still be democratic.
Yes, you can call Israel the colonizers. The issue is why don't you protest yourselves being the colonizers. The difference is that Canadians and Americans and Australians killed almost all local population and Israel did not.
@ we can’t change the past but we can heed the wisdom of Proverbs 14:9 and acknowledge error and seek reconciliation. You are correct about America, Australia, and Canada. I support policies of reconciliation. I also oppose my tax dollars funding apartheid. If you don’t like Americans commenting of Israel then join the protest in opposing US tax dollars propping up Israel’s war machine.
I have both Jews and Palestinians in my family and approve of this message.
Study history
מסכימה עם הדעות שלך ושמחה שיש מישהו בחו"ל שמיצג אותנו בצורה כל כך יפה וממותנת❤
What the situation is making complex is that there are several groups on both sides on that small piece of land. There are people who believe the land is theirs and nobody else's (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want to live in peace together in one state (Palestinians and Israeli), people who want a two state solution (Palestinians and Israeli), etcetera, etcetera. But none of those groups is capable to compromise or project the way to achieve this goal where everybody (or the large majority) benifits. I condone any violence and oppression, doesn't matter what side. But to be honest, the battle is not fair and Palestinians are more of a victim at this point. The solution has to come of Israeli side to be willing to help their own neighbors.
I don't believe the people who believe the land is solely their can cooperate or reach any kind of negotiation with those who want to share or to have two separate countries. The first group are the extremists with the loudest voices (sadly) who are covering everything anyone else is saying
Let's be clear here. The ones not willing to compromise are the Israeli. The Palestinian perspective is entirely understandable and the fact that they accept a two state solution already shows how much they are willing to compromise. The ones who are denying that reality can be found on the Israeli side.
Toda Shahak, you have my vote
It takes a comedian to tell the truth!
When debating people online, I tend to find that the only reasonable people on both sides this issue are the ones from the Israeli and Palestinian sides. Everyone else seems to think this issue is not super complex and can be summed up as one side being good and one side being evil. Both sides have a near endless list of ways they have been wronged and things they themselves did which were quite bad. It is complex!
Not complex at all. Like any long historical process, there are lots of intricate details one can dive into if one wants to, but at its root, this is a simple land conflict. Some European jews decided (for a variety of reasons) to establish an ethnostate in Palestine, who at the time only had a 1-3% jewish population (and did not want a state). This movement got the backing of the British empire. The colonists managed to ethnically cleanse half the indigenous population, and founded their ethnostate. Then, that ethnostate militarily occupied the remaining lands of the indigenous population, but did not absorve this population. The indigenous population has been resisting their occupation and overall dispossession ever since. Not complex at all.
I salute you for your level-headedness, your sense of nuance, your critical thinking and your predisposition to peaceful co-existence -- and for your ability to maintain a sense of humor while discussing these very thorny issues.
All of that said, I think there are some significant fallacies in this video. "[Zionism just means] for Jewish people to have a place where they can live in peace." No, that's not what Zionism says. Even at its most tolerant and liberal, Zionism says that Jews should have a HOMELAND where they can live in peace as nationals of their own sovereign country, whereas those who are not Jews would not be nationals of that country. In practice, establishing such a homeland would come at the expense of people already living there, and would lead to massive displacement and potentially genocide, as indeed is happening now in Israel/Palestine.
I agree that everyone (not just Jews) deserves to "have a place where they can live in peace," of course. Sadly, there are many (not just Jews) who are at risk and not safe in their home countries or elsewhere. But it would be ludicrous to call for the establishment of a sovereign country for every single group that is unsafe -- say, a sovereign nation-state homeland exclusively for LGBT+ folk, or exclusively for people living with disabilities, or for battered wives or any other at-risk demographic, where anyone who did not belong to that group (including those indigenous people already living in the area designated as the homeland) would be violently expelled.
"There's a bunch of Christian states, a bunch of Muslim states; there should be one annoying Jewish state." A significant 31.6% of humans are Christians and 25.8% are Muslims, while only 0.2% are Jews. And yet there is no state on earth that is constitutionally defined as "the nation state of the Muslim people" or "the nation state of the Christian people," with a Law of Return that guarantees immediate citizenship in that country to any member of the religion worldwide. (Hindus are 15%, Buddhists are 10%, and neither of them has called for or colonized a national homeland.) To my knowledge, Judaism is the only religion that has defined itself as a sovereign people with the right to citizenship in a sovereign nation-state homeland reserved only for members of that religion.
"[The definition of Zionism] doesn't say anything about occupying Gaza. It doesn't say anything about Palestinians -- none of that." First: This is factually incorrect. Many of the foundational documents of Zionism (written by Pinsker, Herzl, Motzkin, Ruppin, Zangvil, Ben Gurion, and others) openly advocated for "transfer" (ethnic cleansing) of the Palestinian population out of Palestine to make room for a Jewish homeland. Second: Even if the foundational definitions of Zionism did not advocate occupation, ethnic cleansing, or genocide (and they do), Zionism would still be responsible for the way its own ideology has played out.
By way of analogy: Foundational Communist ideology does not always explicitly call for the kind of violence and human rights violations against the people which have occurred in practice in Communist countries, but Communism is still responsible for the atrocities that have taken place in its name. The State of Israel could not have arisen without the 1947 Nakbah, and regardless of any foundational definitions of Zionism it is responsible for the genocide of 2023 and 2024.
fuck yeah dude, thanks for the sane opinion. something you dont see a lot right now.
U forgot that when israel didn't gave aid they returned 150 hostages, and now that they getting aid the holding 101 hostages fir a year.
All of this 🙏 it’s fucking sad that when someone says “hey how about we talk about solutions that don’t involve unaliving the people of either side” they’ll be either called a terrorist or a Nazi 🥴 make it make sense…
Thanks for your words. It really should be self explanatory.
I can appreciate that sentiment. However, the comedian is gaslighting everyone when he equates this sentiment with "zionism". Zionism is what created the ethnostate of Israel, a *state for the Jewish people*, in a land that originally had only a 1-3% jewish presence. How do you think this was achieved? Zionism's goal is the creation and maintenance of this ethnostate, *not peaceful coexistence".
@@diogoalmeida6721 why is there currently peaceful coexistence there right now for the non Jews that live in Israel?
Bottom line, nobody gets in power without America or Russia back
Zionism is an ideology, specially the political Zionism, which has evolved in an extremist ideology nowdays! As all wrong and extremist ideologies will come to an end sooner or later! So people can live in peace hopefully! Nevertheless Israeli society will have some ethical and moral issues to address in the future!
As will Arab Muslims
You think all the people are extremist, like the people Netanyahu relies on to stay in power? You are aware, I hope, that the people who were slaughtered on Oct. 7 were more likely than anyone to want to peacefully share the land with the Palestinians. Hamas knew that. It didn't matter.
Jew bad. Arab good.
3379 is Résolution in 1975 have aprouved by majorité of the UN states, described and denounces the zionisme like racist, ostracist, segregionist, fascist...ideology.
The Résolution was proposed by Soviét Union. And after it collapse, has been removed by US and they vassals. 1991
No it's not. You took an old concept from 100 years ago that is not used in Israel today, made up a all new meaning for it and decided to apply it on all israelis. I must say here when we see you are using the word zionist we are very confused
The French are interesting. We were on a cruise ship, and a stand-up comedian asked for the nationalities present, went through a few, then one said French, so he asked where they lived, they said Montreal. That gave the comedian an excuse to explain, at length, that that is Canada, he took some time, it was very funny. I don't think they got it.
Anyway, you at least have a balanced position, no one side is correct. There is no excuse to murder innocent civilians.
I'm a zionist jew too
This guy is hilarious he way too perfectly shows the stereotype of why people say germans don't have a sense of humor.
context is important.
so is how people interpret a word like Zionism.
disputing a definition doesn't really help move the situation forward.
we should focus on intentions, morals, values, and human rights.
what you said about the Israeli singers coming under threat is fair,
they have nothing to do with the conflict and are innocent,
just like all the civilians in Palestine and Israel that are caught in the crossfire of a war against an apartheid state.
its the same story every time and it ALWAYS ends badly.
all we can do is try our best to stop it happening again
I like it that someone who's never been to Israel calls it an Apartheid state.
You do realize you telling people what their own movement is about would be outright rejected for any other ethnic or racial group? Try telling the Black Lives Matter movement or the Native American tribes what they're about and see how far that gets you.
There are violent settlers, and I not only don't support them - I think the entire idea of west bank settlements is anti-zionist at its core. You don't get to define me or my beliefs.
@@int0x2e if it’s your belief to oppress a certain group of people then we do get to define you. we define it as oppression. that’s exactly what the black lives matter movement is about - it’s not about about a new black world order as the racists like to believe. it’s about equal rights for black people which they don’t have under deep rooted systemic oppression. literally the same thing is going on in Isreal and so many other countries. at the heart of every movement are shared values. otherwise you don’t have a movement, you have an agenda to fuck some people over. even the native americans (also not a movement btw) had a culture of non-ownership of the land and valuing nature. this is respecting the ‘rights’ of the natural environment and i would be all for that if that’s where the discussion is headed.
But it’s not.
it’s caught up in vengeful ideologies about definitions and semantics which do nothing but cause more suffering.
@@yoezra i’ve never been to auschwitz but it’s clear what was going on…
you should be more precise when contesting. be specific on what you disagree with otherwise you don’t have a point or argument
@@int0x2e my comment got banned so i’ll tldr
if your movement is oppressing a minority, then it’s not a movement, it’s an agenda and it’s defined as oppression.
black lives matter was a movement for equal rights for black people under deep rooted systematic oppression, not an agenda for a new world order
all movements have shared values
“native american” is not a movement, its a culture with values that are also shared by many
Wow Man! There is less comedy and more humanistic conent in it - which is worthy and well articulated like I have seen seldom.
Yeah and he says every government has something to criticise like what's isreel is doing little damage while it's committed to genocide the whole Palestinian population to take their right to "exist" on that so called promised land, every country religion is peacefully chosen by its people not by colonising and ethnic cleansing
Keep playing the victim
I'm a non-Jewish Zionist :D Love your work!
It is a colonial movement that is anti-Palestinian.
This is the best and most balanced explanation of Zionism I could find, that’s also accessible and coherent. I’ve been struggling with explaining it to my friends, I’ll send them this link.
Thanks man. Am Israel chai.
You can't just occupy a room of your generous host & claim I just want to peacefully co exist in this house.
I mean yeah the Jews should be able to have a country, the problem is usually if you want one people to have land you need to take it from someone else and that someone is very rarely happy about it. Especially when you started out telling them you were going to let them govern their own territory after generations of rule by a foreign born empire and then be like “psyche!” and give that territory to someone else.
How can you take back your own land you never left?
@@WomenWearBigUglySquarePantsNowwhat do you mean never left
The Jews moved out of Gaza in 2005 and left them to their own devices….Palestinians still took day trips to Israel in order to do suicide bombs.
🤷🏻♀️
I’m unfollowing just to follow you back again to support your zionism!
They had us in the first half ngl
so shallow... do you even care about his comedy?
@@everyoneroasted you understand nothing m'boi :3
Very proud he said he is a zionism, it just mean jews want to live. And always make me crazy people so mad there is a jewish state when there are many muslims and christian states. Like its a big no no
You talk as if people can just say "now I want my state". It's not how it works. If Israel had been established in an unoccupied island somewhere, no one would care. The problem is that Israel was founded as a colonial project, with the help of a colonial power, via the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population. That is what people object to, with good reason.
@@diogoalmeida6721 If you open Pandora's box a lot of people around the world would owe the Jews living in Israel plenty. The Iraqi government owes me 20 million dollars. Plus the Jews bought the land from the British. and the only reason they were kicked out was that they tried to kill the Jews. If they hadn't attempted who knows maybe history would have been different. They were the ones who sided with Hitler, so they paid the price.
@@diogoalmeida6721 Who are you where are you from and why do you feel you can talk on the subject?
@@aaddaamm1100 why does it matter who I am and where I am from? I "feel" like I can talk on the subject because this is History 101. Anyone can and should talk be able to talk about it.
Bravo Shahak! 100% on everything you said. More voices like yours are needed.
Free Palestine
From judea
From judea and samria
Palestine is free.
From Islamic indoctrination
Thank you Shahak for acknowledging Palestinian rights to exist .. I wasn’t a Zionist but if being a Zionist means an establishment to a Palestinian state too then I’m a Zionist ☮️🙏🏻
That is not what Zionism means, unfortunately.
One of your brethren killed his dad. Before the judge, he wailed: "I'm now an orphan" [ always a victim even after committing horrors]
Why do lefties generally hate ethno-nationalism, but make exceptions for jewish and kurdish ethno-nationalism?
Well I don't speak for all of us but I would say many of us left this don't make exceptions for Israel and we like the explicitly multi-ethnic vision of rojava advocated by Abdullah Oulcan
Who is giving our hostages aid?
hamas but only if it was a wet paper or none.
God bless Israel and the families that have been broken from the war, in the name of the Lord.
2:46 the difference is that Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to it's native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
Canada literally started recognizing the atrocities 5 minutes ago. They’re still digging out bodies. And what work is Canada doing for reparations other than performative land acknowledgments? Ah yes. Canada: We acknowledge we stole your land but we aren’t giving it back! Israel is the most successful decolonization project in history. This is what “land back” looks like. Jews took back a tiny portion of their ancient homeland. Like 10% and Arab colonizers refuse to accept it. It’s as if indigenous peoples in Canada said please give us 10% of Canada back as reparations. Would you? If yes, then it’s exactly what Jews did. If not, then you’re just a phoney. Land back doesn’t mean we say we are sorry. It means righting a wrong in a concrete fashion. Palestinian Arabs have Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinian Jews have Israel. Seems fair as f to me.
The jews are the indigenous people of Israel…..
Did the native population in canada launch a surprise attack recently?
@yitzhakspolter9551 the last one was in 2020 when the Natives held the country hostage through a blockade of rails that affected $250B worth of goods being transported effecting everyone right across the country. Canada negotiated with the Native leaders to deesculate and settle the conflict. Not send in the military. Anyone with a brain knows that's what you're not supposed to do. If Canada did send in the military against their native population, everyone in the world should be standing in opposition of that regardless of how many lives are at risk.
Let me post it again, Canada recognizes the atrocities it has committed to its Native population and is working towards reparations. Isrl is not
@yitzhakspolter9551 also, is the occupying power doesn't have the right to defend itself against those it is occupying. Those being oppressed have every right to fight for their freedom through armed resistance. That's International Law. Don't like it, don't occupy and start treating everyone--EVERYONE with the same rights. What happened on 10/7 did not happen in a vacuum
What christian state? Where? Cuz america isnt
Love and support to u and ur Zionist ideas frm an Indian 🇮🇳🇮🇳
You support the Talmud?? Really??
@@czourides what do you think the talmud is? please help me understand, thanks.
@@itaymry You "support Zionism" yet don't know what the Talmud teaches...very nice. Ponder. Btw, the Upanishads are beautiful. May all sentient beings transcend suffering.
@@czouridesboy, you don’t understand English very well, do you? He did NOT ask what the Talmud is- he asked what YOU think it is! Understand the difference….?
I disagree. You're attempting to read his mind. "Goy*m"...Talmud.@@Glenrok
Some jokes really good but it turn to be more of speech, but liked the one about tomato 😂
Best thing you said: "I'm against states being religious". Such a shame Britain didn't leave Palestine with a secular democracy. Then everyone there could have lived in peace regardless of religion and ethnicity. It's not too late. It's the only way forward.
You cannot have a secular democracy with Islamists.
Israel was created by socialists, many of whom were full-blown atheists. The Arabs were and continue to be far more driven by faith than the Israel that existed for many years. The number of religious fanatics in Israel has increased, which means that like Hamas and other Islamist groups, they are backed by God. And when you believe that, there is no compromise.
@@ThomasVWorm Islamism as a political movement is a much later invention, funded by the US and its allies, to fight communism. Most Arab countries at that time were nationalists, and there is little reason to think Palestinians would have been any different.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 Hamas emerged in the late 80s. Look at the Arab states around Israel, like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. Were they Islamic states? The whole islamism being in the way of Palestinians having their own state is a canard.
There is a democracy in Israel
How have you just uncomplicate a subject so complicated? As ever, thoughtful and powerful ❤
Stupidity, plain and simple.
It's not complicated. It's a simple land dispute. The state of Israel was founded by ethnically cleansing the land it occupies from its indigenous population. The indigenous population has been trying to either get it back or at least trying not to lose more of it.
His description of zionism is accurate but I don't agree with the 2 state solution
it is not quite accurate. It should include 'within historical Palestine' or however you want to name the area, which complicates matters substantially, because it involves the very real possibility (some might say inevitability) that the creation of that land for the jews would be at the expense of the many people(s) living there who up until that point (certainly collectively) formed the majority, whereas the jews had been a minority, a portion of those Jews were even there because of the Zionist movement itself.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the root idea of Zionism, but there is a high possibility of that project not being fair to others and it's the failure to avoid that unfairness, by the leaders of not just Israel & the Palestinians but by the whole world, is what people take issue with and why Zionism has a very bad reputation and understandably so. Even a large portion of Jews disagree with Zionism, for political, religious, social or other reasons.
Distilling complicated issues down to one liners doesn't serve understanding, in my opinion. It mainly serves misunderstanding. The age of memes is not very helpful in my opinion. It can help to introduce novices to a subject, but it requires context and further explanation. A world where people just ping pong one liners at each other is a world that will bear few solutions.
my €0,02
@@TheGoodDrEvil, well said. The most intelligient comment so far here that I have read
Why is it up to activists to protect aid to Palestine? Why doesn’t the Israeli government do it?
193 countries in the world:
67 Roman Catholic
49 Islamic
49 Protestant
14 Eastern Orthodox
3 Hindu
And only ONE Jewish country.
That's not too much to ask.
And we're not asking.
You really believe that crap you wrote?
The fuck do you mean by 3 hindu
@@Ojaidiv India, Nepal, and Mauritius
@@handler654 where is the lie tho?
There are no catholic or protestant countries. That means there are no countries where that is expressly enshrined in the constitution. No religion should be enshrined in a constitution. By being that way, it automatically labels you as an apartheid state when the constitution favours one religion or ethnicity over another.
Modi is trying to get that in India but so far he has not been successful.
India, also known as Bharat, is a Union of States. It is a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic with a parliamentary system of government.
Saudi Arabia for instance is a muslim country. But using one of the most repressive regimes in the world as a template, it shows a serious lack of democracy and logical thinking
I agree Zionism isn’t a big request if Jewz can find a piece of land where there are no people and live there … (a land without people for a people without a land).
but there is no land without people 😔
the land of Milk & Honey was filled with Phillistines, Amonites, Samaritans, Canaanites, Gomorrites and the so-called “Chosen People” attacked them and persecuted them using slings (David) and trumpets (Joshua) and … why not try living with them instead ? we did it here in South Africa … you could to ! (you may have to declare Zionism a mistake …)
Somehow a Polish ethnic cleansing indigenous Asians and occupying their homes is not colonizer.
Go search up for me what proportion of Jews in Israel are ashkenazic descent and get back to me about that
Except more than half of Israel are people whose grandparents were expelled and pressured out from Muslim countries - like Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Egypt. And they are people of color.
@@roejogan9322 why is that relevant? Just look at all the PMs in Israel's history and look where they came from. The fact that the Israelis decided to conspire to bring Arab jews from other countries to Israel at a later date does not change the fact that it is an European colony.
@@haroldsteinblatt2567 So the fact that Brazil is over 50% non-white makes it not a colonial state?
A Jewish state is not a big ask. I agree. But it is a big ask when to make that state that means somebody else has to get up and leave or else. My wife is Assyrian. They haven't had a country once biblical times. Should they be able to just move some people from their land and say we deserve this, let's make two states so we both can have peace. The only people who agree with that are the ones whose land isn't being taken.
I absolutely despise zionism
it's ok, you don't matter much. 🥳
Awesome Shahak. Now show us the Muslim comedy bit of this. We'll wait.
I'm non Jewish non Muslim and from England and you can't act like Zionist isn't the problem even the orthodox Jews are against Zionism but the thing that we all across the world are disgusted in is the occupation in Palestine and Lebanon and the genocide that's what we are against
If the English are disgusted by the occupation of Palestine maybe throw some tomatoes at the mirror.
No idea where you're getting your "facts" from mate, but none of what you said is true. The "Jews" who claim they're "against Zionism" are fakers who are spreading disinformation - I saw a group of them at a free palestine encampment protest, where they set up a Sukka at the encampment to show their support as "Jewish Voices for Palestine", but they knew so little about Judaism, they put the Sukka under a tree, which violates Jewish law. No one called them out on it, probably because there was not a single Jew around, or at least none who felt safe enough to speak up. And if your environment isn't even safe enough for Jews to stop you from appropriating their religion wrong, how do you expect any of the rest of what you're hearing "from Jews" to be any closer to reality? It's very obvious that no one in those movements is talking to actual Jews, or considering real Jews at all - they prefer to just tokenize whichever fake Jews they can find, who will parrot anything that you want to hear, because they're too afraid to think for themselves, or because they're a straight-up faker who wants to delegitimize real Jewish voices by appropriating the Jewish identity in this way. The "Jews" who you're talking to are, realistically, not Jewish, and at the very least, don't care at all about Judaism or preserving it, or about the safety of Jews in general.
Lol brother you do realize that over 55% of Israelis are Orthodox Jews, right? They are some of the most proud Zionists you'll find out there too.
Thanks for unapologetically stating your truth
I like your attitude! Reconsidering the Holocaust. There are both sides to every story after all 👍🏻
U said it so right, it has nothing to do about Palestine, about Islam, nothing else beside Jews living in peace and harmony, well done !❤
Not what Zionism means. Lots of movements and ideologies exist and have existed within Jewish culture that seek to answer how the jewish people can exist and thrive in peace in this world. Zionism is just one of them. What sets Zionism apart is exactly the fact that it proposes that the only way we can get "Jews living in peace and harmony" is by creating an ethnostate. In Palestine. Where only 1-3% of the population was Jewish at the time (and were not zionist either). Stop trying to make Zionism mean something that it does not.
Really? Why did they have to remove the Palestinians from their land? Have you heard of 1948??? If I like my neighbor's house and just want to live peacefully in his house, should I force my neighbor out? And continue living peacefully in his house? Would that be legal? Would that be right?
Was Nakba peaceful
i would love to see u and sammy obeid share a same stage... u guys would stop the war....
I appreciate the fact that he has a sane view regarding the solution to the conflict (a Palestinian state), but a lot of the rest is highly questionable, and it shows how deeply ingrained zionist propaganda can be that his take is seen as a moderate one. Equating Zionism (a not very old movement, contrary what he said) with "wanting a country where jewish ppl can be safe" is patently false. If that were the case, then modern zionism would be advocating for mass immigration to the US, where jewish ppl have been able to flourish in peace and safety. Zionism has always been an European nationalistic movement. It is not about finding a place where the "jewish ppl can be safe", but rather founding *a national state for the jewish people*, and since the end of the 19th century, the location for that state has been identified as Palestine, where at the time only 1-3% of the population was jewish (and was also deeply anti-zionist btw). How does one make that happen? By taking the land from their inhabitants and driving them away. This is not a "very complicated conflict". It's a conflict about land. European jews arrived en masse in the span of some 30 years, some as settlers and some as refugees and drove the Palestinians off their land, with the full support of the largest and most powerful European power of the time (England). It's mind boggling that this guy's response to the Québecois Canadian who called him a colonizer was to huff and puff about how the Canadian was too. Well, there you go. You acknowledge that you took someone else's land (not that long ago either, my father is older than the State of Israel) and they want it back. Not that hard to understand. Now to the second point: why doesn't Israel simply give citizenship to all the Palestinians that it is currently militarily occupying? Because then the Israeli jews would be in the minority, and Israel was founded on the premise of being a national state *for the jewish people*, an ethnostate. There could be a single national state for all the inhabitants who call the land of Palestine/current state of Israel their home. This would be a multi-ethnic and religiously diverse country, perhaps even a liberal democracy. But it would not be Israel anymore, because it would not be *for the jewish people* alone. Hence, it cannot exist. Zionism is not a neutral stance. It is not about keeping jewish people safe. It a colonial project, one that sees having an ethnostate as a founding principle.
Israel Zangwill a staunch British Zionist and partner with Herzl, later recanted and suggested not for mass migration as would cause conflict with locals. He wrote The Future of Commerce in Palestine and the Voice of Jerusulem. His
Im sure Europe seemed ideal for jews at some point in time.
Lovers of Zion is not Zionism otherwise you can say its as old as the religion
There should be a palestinian state. Just not next to Israel. Anywhere in Saudi Arabia is fine. In Iraq. In Iran. As long as its in an existing Muslim country, that is fine. Judea and Samaria belong to Israel and there never was a palestinian state there and there never will be. The entire cause is plain old Jew hate. Nothing else. Oldest hatred in the world.
Neither Israel till 1948. Palestine exist way longer than the Israel. It's not a state because it's ruling under empire till the occupiers established their state there
Facts
At this point let's just blame the Italians because no one's talking about the Romans
Rome is to blame for the disgusting invention of Christianity. The most powerful tool to divide and conquer.
Yes, as a jewish person, i was taught exactly that about Zionism. How can zionism be about “occupying Palestine,” if Herzl was a modern zionist, ffrom the 1800s. It’s about peaceful coexistence where we aren’t unalived for being ethnically jewish
And the Zionism before the modern era - Rabbi Yehuda Halevi and Rambam in the 12th century, Ezra and Nehemiah in the 5th century (before Islam was created)... these are only the most famous names, but Zionism has always existed since the deportation and was formed as a national movement following the awakening of nationalism in Europe and the world
You were taught wrong. Read what the founders and luminaries of the zionist movement and founders of the state of Israel wrote. It was about the creation of an ethnostate. If peaceful coexistence followed, then great. If not, so be it. That was/is not the goal.
Happy to be a colonizer tho🤦🏽♂️
There's nothing sane about zionism, and yes it is a colonialist movement at its core and to frame the idea of "one little Jewish state" as an inoffensive and just idea without the context of what that actually means is racist and ignorant. If you actually study the words and actions of the founding forefathers of zionism it was very explicit from the outset and the early zionists made it clear that colonizing Palestine would require enthnically clensing the native population. The origin of the conflict is incredibly simple, however he wishes to frame it otherwise - one group of people invaded and stole the land of another and far from trying to live in peace, have been murdering that native population and annexing more and more land. As far as solutions go, a two state solution is no longer viable and absurd when considering that Israel now occupies and or controls all of historic Palestine. If this comedian, or any Israeli is actually serious about living in peace, then dismantle the apartheid state and allow the full right of return for the palestinian diaspora and have a one state solution that is neither jewish, muslim or christian but rather a secular democracy with equal rights for all citizens from the river to the sea. Liberals tend to believe that they are reasonable and open minded and peace loving whilst at the same time supporting the inhumane systems that maintain their privilege. You can't have it both ways.
Literally, there was no ethnic cleansing, once the number of Arabs in Israel is higher than it it used to be before 1948 and also a colony is a land we're its resource are sent to a "colonialist" country. Which country is receiving Israelis resources for free or minimum prices? It doesn't even make sense what you said😂
In addition, if Hamas wins the war, which thank God won't happen, all jews will be murder, because it's one of their values. Also...diaspora? Are you joking? Do you know a religious group that had a forced diaspora and after droves of genocide attempts is finally with a state? JUDAISM! Arabs have Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt... while Israel is the only Jewish state. The sionist nation, the only democracy in the Middle East, is not considered apartheid since all religious and ethnic groups have the same rights. Although some citizens can seem racist, we can not compare with the racism and antissemitism in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt and many others. For example, in Saudi Arabia, jews can not be religious in public.
@@lesguuuuuuu the world's population is higher than it was in 1948 so what? Have there been no wars, genocide or ethnic clensing? Rwanda's population is higher now than it was in 1993, does that mean that there was no genocide in 1994? Be serious. In 1948-49, 750 thousand people were permanently displaced from what is now Israel and have been barred from returning for 76 years. Another 15 thousand people were massacred.
When you say "Receiving for free" what exactly are you talking about? You mean what was stolen in the first place? Should indigenous Australians be thankful that Europeans drove them off their land and then doled out pitiful resources as a way of creating dependence and preventing self determination or political autonomy? Should Mexico feel thankful to the Spanish crown for being turned into a sweatshop for three hundred years and having its resources stolen while being forced to live off imports? That is colonialism, you take control of the local resources then control who can have it and how much. Look up the water crisis in the west bank and how the the illegal settlements and the Israeli state steal the water supply of the local population while drip feeding people. Read about the dietary calculations that the Israeli state made for the people of Gaza to keep them just above the starvation line. Right now the mask has fallen off and every human rights aid group in the world is alerting us of a looming famine, are they all not making sense? Are they all anti semetic? you can read the reports if you wish. But don't turn away from the horror of what is happening
Any french people here?
Well said!
Summed up zionism perfectly
Where would we reasonables be without ambivalence? Sure it's complicated - but what's easy except of whining?
The land of Israel was called Zion a thousand+ years before the arabs started identify themselves as arabs.. pretty sure that Jerusalem was declared as a capital of Israel thousand+ years before invention of Islam...and real name of the West bank is Judea and Samaria ..so stop calling the Jews settlers on the land where the jewish nation and two monoteistic religions Judaism and Christianity were born.
@@labradoriteatheart I think you're missing his point. He supports the existence of the state of Israel ("I believe there should be at least 1 jewish state") but is squirmy about the humanitarian aspects which is why he refers to the people who try and block aid as "settlers". This is the line between co-existence & supremacy that he's trying to draw. He likes aid to Gaza to ensure humanitarian success for Palestinian people, who he values as human life. The people who are trying to stop that are "settlers" because they're trying to extinguish the other race, more akin to The Trail of Tears, Nazi camps, etc.
Furthermore, every state deserves to be criticized. Even the USA, where I'm from & will proudly represent, & never move away from, has many skeletons in its closet. Israel, Palestine, etc, don't deserve some sort of special treatment from their horrid governmental actions, founding, underpinning philosophies, etc.
Every state is always capable of improvement, & supporting the idea of a safe haven for Jews can & should not be a forced choice with a safe place of co-existence with Palestinian people.
You live in the past. This does not help people in the present.
And they also claim that "hating zionists/zionism isn't anti semetic"
But they believe in the protocols of the elders of ZION which is an antisemetic conspiracy theory made up by the Tzar of Russia secret police , now I wonder if an antisemetic conspiracy theory has the name of Zion in it's title if anyone can deny that there is a connection between jews and zion that it's so deep that even antisemites back in the day admitted it than how come antisemites today think they can actually lie about it being two separate things? (And even they were they are both bigotries regardless of their name) .
@@andrewli8305 the term "settlers " is also true for the arabs that have settled in Judea
And for the rest of humanity.
Everyone who is alive today
Have had ancestors that settled somewhere sometimes on the expense of others
The main problem isn't the so called settlers , the real problem is with the palastinan society .
@@Vorner1981 this is not me bro...jihadists want you to follow rules from the middle ages or die...
I'll take side that says killing 18,000 children is wrong!
There is no nuance.
This is so stupid. The whole blaming Canada, um the whole point of its happening now and things need to change. Not use the past as an excuse …
Also complicated not one bit! People who actually looked into the history and saw how Israel became a country by illegal crime and the hijacking of British help
"the hijacking of British help" lol
Thank you for letting all of us know you don't know history
@@almoghadad856 it is a pithy accurate summary. What do you think it gets wrong? Was Israel not founded by ethnic cleansing the Palestinians? Did the British not create a lot of the conditions that allowed this to happen?
Israel was founded by war not "ethnic cleansing". and the British Aram embargoed Israel. After the Arab revolt in 1936 the British went against the Jews
@@almoghadad856 The ethnic cleansing was the goal of the war. Read Benny Morris' book on the conflict. It's all there. Yes, at times the British grew tired of the balancing act they created for themselves in cleaving Palestine into jewish and palestinian groups. During some time, they helped the jews, and then when that created too much tension with the local population, they scaled it back, and so on and so forth. It ended with Britain throwing the whole issue on the new formed UN's lap and the outcome we all know.
there is no muslim or christian state anywhere in the world, so he is wrong about that, because no muslim or christian can simply walk into another country and settle simply because they are muslim or christian, like they can with Israel simply because they are jewish. secondly, if his definition of zionism doesnt infer occupation of palestinian territory, then why in the next statement he said this is why he is for a 2 state solution, because that implies he is OK with the Nakba, and the Balfour declaration handing over control to jews with no referrendum of the palestinians living in that land at the time.
Wrong definition of Zionism.
THANK YOU! That's exactly what's on my mind!
תודה שחק
עצוב שאתה עושה עבודה יותר טובה בלהסביר על ציונות מאשר הממשלה הדפוקה שלנו, שעושה רושם שרק מנסה לחרבן על המפעל הציוני
Talmud??
@@czouridesbible? Koran…..?
What you trying to say ? @@czourides
@@labradoriteatheart He has a problem with Jews and uses the Talmud as a dog-whistle.
Tell them about nazi and zionist collaboration 😂😂😂
I too hope there can be a Palestinian state we could work towards. But the sad reality is, even before the inception of Israel, they’ve been more interested in killing Jews than getting a state. Hopefully that changes though, after the War
The sad reality is that Jews didn't come to Palestine in peace. They came to Palestine, from Europe with the intention of removing as many Muslims and Christians as they could get away with, in order to create an artificial majority. And they established terrorist groups and militias to do so. They slaughtered villages, bombed markets, hotels, and generally did not seek to live together with the Muslims and Christians, but to live in their lands, as an artificial ruling majority
You say the Palestinians are more interested in killing Jews. The Jews seem to be almost 50 times more successful in killing Palestinians, than Palestinians killing Jews. How can you believe such rubbish.
Right, those savages who cannot accept to be driven off their lands by European colonizers. How irrational of them.
@@diogoalmeida6721 The Arabs in Israel who accept a Jewish state aren’t forced out their hones
@@Olinke no, they get to be the most privileged of second class citizens.