Strongly agree. There's a video by the channel PlagueofGripes called 'Gohan's Many Masks' explaining he's a pretty flat character that is nothing more than a 'weapon' that needs to get pushed in pressure situations. He just needs to be prodded into being angry enough and that's the magic solution to problems as seen in the Cell saga.
Great video. Personally, I think anything after the Frieza Saga sucks because the quality of writing dropped sufficiently starting with the Cell Saga and things getting worse & worse in Buu Saga. Careful readers can tell story after Frieza are like cheap add-on to the original story without a well thought out outline with many contradiction to the early story & much weaker story execution. Toriyama admitted in many interviews he didn't enjoy writing Dragon Ball anymore due to high pressure from the publishers & readers.
The storytelling peaked with the Frieza Saga. It should have concluded after that arc. Then the franchise could have just been continued with one-off films after that. The minute you have Goku become the legendary Super Saiyan, and defeat Frieza, the ultimate evil power in the universe....only for Frieza to come back as a cyborg just to get wrecked by a punk with a sword who is then revealed to be delivering a doomsday warning from the future...to me that goes into serious "jumping the shark" territory. After that, it didn't feel like a story was being told, it didn't feel like the Dragon Balls were in any way a focal point of the series...it just felt like we were exclusively watching a show that existed to always justify more fights no matter how contrived or idiotic the character decisions might be...and the Dragon Balls were just a plot device on the side of all of that.
The mistakes came about in the Cell Saga as a result of Cell being shoehorned into the plot and Toriyama being forced by his editor to constantly change him and drag the story out. Ruined the Androids saga. The writing is so terrible. Cell was not even supposed to be the main villain and the editor forced Akira Toriyama to put him in and to keep changing his abilities and purpose. Really screwed everything up. Watching History Of Trunks one can see how effective villains 17 & 18 were and are and how wrong Toriyama's editor, Hirokazu Torishimia, truly was Hell, Super Android 13 is likely closer to what Toriyama intended and I don't say that lightly.
I think people just reach to deep. I never saw dragon ball as a well written series. There’s so many plot holes, so many things that don’t make sense. However, every arc is in the db & DBZ is good. Sure it has its flaws, but ultimately it’s something we grew up as kids/teens. We didn’t go this deep into the story & find its flaws. We Simply enjoyed the series.
Ssj Gohan is trash in my opinion. Should've just kept him in base forever seeing as he is basically a borderline side character for the rest of the franchise. Beast Gohan is lazy and lame too.
Tien holding off Cell was at least top 5 in that arc. That shit would give me a feeling that's hard to explain. I also have to say, why are there references to the Android Saga when we are talking about the Cell Saga? Yea it had SOMETHING to do with Cell, but it was not the same saga. Holy. What are 17/18s motives? How are you confused about that? lol Cell is bitching because he has Frieza's cells in him. Frieza would do the same if he were restricted. Cells also have a memory. I don't know enough about it to make an argument, but there's a reason that evolution works. The SSJ deal, that is pretty asinine. It's obvious that once you get used to a transformation with years of true battle experience, it's not shocking that it would become easier to excel at it. Goku has ALWAYS been exceling at an excessive rate. It shouldn't come as a shock when he is significantly stronger then Trunks. Trunks kept running into a wall and would run out of fear of death. He RARELY had the option to push himself to the brink of death and he fought as a necessity of survival. So unless he was backed into a corner, he would run. Where as Goku took ALL challenges as serious as any other. The "good" parts I agreed with, but every bad part you mentioned was extremely short sighted. I'm surprised you don't have more dislikes. This is 50/50 for me so I won't rate it.
I’m watching dbz for the first time and I agree as of right now I like the Frieza sage more than this arc and some arcs in og dragon ball I’d put over this one
I think you've misunderstood Cell's transformations. They weren't a case of requiring specific androids to be present, but requiring a specific power level to be achieved - and the only way Gero knew to accomplish this was via the androids. The zenkai boost from the absolute beating he took from Gohan was enough to offset the loss of android 18, as well as pushing Cell to achieve super saiyan (or ssj2 depending on who was animating each slide). Whether or not that much of a boost was appropriate is completely up for argument, but just being back in his perfect form isn't as incorrect as you make it out to be. I also disagree a little on your take about 17 and 18. I think their actions make a lot of sense. They're kids, set loose with unrivalled power and no real objective or clue what to do. They're bored so take a road trip. The only thing repeating in their head is the core programming of "kill goku" and at the lack of anything else to do, they do that. Where I think the writing gets clever is that the 17 and 18 never make an aggresive action against the Z fighters - they only ever respond to the Z fighters attacking them. Kami points this out and initially refuses to fuse with Piccolo as a result. It's only Kami sensing Cell that pushes him to fuse, and Picollo again misunderstands this and immediately goes to fight 17 and 18.
Except those only came about through contrived writing via external meddling. Also, 17 & 18 say they wanted to kill Goku because it was going to be fun like everything else they clearly intended to originally, "part of a game" as 17 put it.
A lot of the complaints in this video honestly just don't really work for me. Example, 16 bomb thing is an anime only statement. Cell acting cowardly, it's just the character acting true to himself and it helps the themes of Dragon Ball be consistent. Cell was desperate to prove he is just better than everyone, so when he's the one being beaten his traits of cowardice are put on full display. Cells motivation is clear, he simply wants to kill and watch the terror of the world. He wants to see humanity tremble over his ''perfect power'' as he believes. It's why he becomes complacent and doesn't work for any more power after obtaining his perfect form. He genuinely thinks he's perfect. Those are just a few things which can all be agreed upon if everyone actually read the manga for Dragon Ball. Not Super or nothing just the manga titled Dragon Ball, which starts with Goku in the woods and ends with him flying off with Oob. Cell coming back with his explanation makes sense if your not getting irritated at every little thing, now first. There's a narrative, Cell coming back that way at its core is due to the characters needing to develop past their mistakes and Cell coming back after Goku just planned to have him die there fits with Goku's decision at the end to stay dead. Second, Cell has Saiyan cells/Genetics. Him coming back from near death and becoming so much more powerful makes sense, though If I would give you anything him coming back in his perfect form doesn't make the MOST sense. But it really doesn't matter, him coming back that way doesn't affect the story or narrative or anything for the matter in a negative way. Him learning instant transmission makes a lot of sense actually, we've seen characters learn moves just by seeing it once. (Goku seeing Roshi's Kamehameha) Why is it so bad when Cell who has the cells of Freeza, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc, is also able to do that? Also Toriyama being conflicted on the antagonists doesn't mean the story was supposed to end earlier. And honestly if you think the story really should end at Namek. ... Thats just stupid. The story perfectly ends with the Majin Boo arc which wraps up Goku's character arc perfectly, taking that out just ruins the build up to the finale. Minor grips like Super Saiyan not being special anymore doesn't matter. It doesn't affect anything in the story. Just because the characters keep evolving past Super Saiyan doesn't devalue it inherently. Characters always evolve past their limits, Roshi, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn for examples who after their character arc wraps up they take a backseat in the story.
Semi Perfect shouldn't have complained though. They should have just waited until he was losing to Gohan to make him cry since he was at his Perfect form and losing. They should have just made him accept his L against Vegeta and just manipulate him to let him be Perfect instead of having him cry to.
I’ve always say the problem every one has with the 2 latest dbs arcs (Moro and granohola arcs) has been been a problem in the series after the namek arc
1. Toriyama never intended on ending dbz after cell 2. Cell was able to learn instant transmission after witnessing Goku use it multiple times 3. Cells motive after he came perfect made sense since he has saiyan genes he would want to test out his perfect form and his strength against the z fighters so he held the cell games so he can test his new strength 4. Cell being able to reach his super perfect form after spitting out 18 made sense since he got a zenkai boost from his saiyan cells
The reason the Androids were less evil in the main timeline than in Future Trunks timeline is because Dr Gero was forced to activate them earlier in the main timeline as a result of the tip off from Future Trunks and the Z fighters having him cornered. He wasn't able to finish their programming. In Future Trunks timeline, this never occurred and Gero was able to complete their programming to it's fullest, making them as evil and destructive as he wanted. I get it though, it's never made clear in the show and kinda just left to the audience to figure it out.
People shit on the arc for many valid reasons. The arc starts of good but just falls off and has many terrible aspects. The pacing in it is atrocious and it drags on to much.
The Cell arc is my favorite arc, but I do agree the Freeza arc is overall better. I believe Gohan pretty much saves the arc from looking worse. Gohan's peak moments in the Cell arc, finally culminating everything we have seen from him since the start of the show, THAT'S the best development cash in of the series in my opinion, and that's why so many people love it. However, if you look at the arc as a whole, there's no way you can say it's better than the Namek/Freeza saga. The only character that had as much weight to them as the storylines in that arc was Gohan. And he isn't enough to elevate it past the entirety of the Freeza saga. Freeza will always be the best villain of the show. No one will have as much gravitas to match him 💯
I love Dragon Ball. It will always be one of my favorite animes. The Cell saga is the only time throughout the entirety of the show where I have felt bored following the story.
This arc is great but yeah I agree about Semi Perfect Cell. Him getting pissy about Vegeta's winning took away from him as a villain. His personality in his Imperfect form and Perfect form are great but Semi Perfect Cell had an ugly design and his complaining was annoying. Instead of complaining Toriyama should have just made him manipulate Vegeta to let him reach perfection right when he was losing without having him cry.
Considering doing the whole original Dragon ball series Think of the saiyan and namek saga they flow they make sense The cell saga (Frieza isn't dead he's alive as a cyborg and his dad is with him on earth) 15 minutes later (A new mystery saiyan appears and smokes frieza and his dad in 2 seconds) ....... (This saiyan is from the future to warn us about a new threat) Let's not even mention while I love trunks as a character how he was able to not only go back in time but everyone finds out he's from the future and he meets his younger self several times with no consequences (The threat arrives androids who can't be sensed and drain energy) Trunks comes back again with no consequences and now vegeta and bulma realize who he is (as if it wasn't obvious bulma is carrying a baby with a complete unique hair color the entire time and she and vegeta just now figure it out) (Wait these aren't the right androids 3rd villain swap by the way) (We find the real androids and while this makes sense in like dragon ball gt and super it doesn't make sense in Z but they are literally robot rebellious teenagers who are too cool to do anything but joy ride around claiming to want to kill goku while goku is dying at the moment anyway) (Ohh. Because by the way goku didn't take the medicine that was the entire point of trunks potentially messing up the future even more by going back in time in the first place) (Then randomly something strange is happening... 4th villain swap) (In comes cell who needs the other androids to become his perfect form) (1st form cell is murdering people on a regular basis. What does he do when he becomes perfect) "Hey everyone I'm kind of perfect I'm better than you let's have a tournament" (While the goku vegeta etc dna makes sense... he completely switches motivations) I won't even continue to the end of the ark because the ending is decent but even in this TH-cam video the guy specifically says "Things were clearly supposed to end after the namek saga and toriyama didn't have anything planned for this arc except the end" Where did he lie? Like re read any of that. The buu saga has less of what I was describing but this saga this man is literally making up shit as he goes and don't lie while using one villain to erase the villain toriyama got bored with just like the "saiyan tale disappearance" I love dbz even this arc I like super never watched GT but it seems interesting I'm currently watching the original DB however in season 1 of DB It is obvious as hell Toriyama is not a action writer He's a gag writer. He most enjoys taking his characters and putting them in situations that cause something out of the ordinary that supposed to be funny The fact it's a cartoon where goku is patting women's vaginas because he doesn't understand gender or how roshi acts in season 1 shows that the show itself was supposed to be another gag manga I don't know what made him decide to make dbz but I gravitate to that more than what toriyama likes to do because let's say his preference is gag manga's That could work. I'm not saying all of his work is bad but he has a very strange sense of humor to say the least 😂 So it's almost like if Steph curry insisted on being in the dunk contest That's toriyama dbz is his best work in my opinion however he prefers gag reels while again having a very strange sense of humor himself (I'm not saying good or actually funny) I think he almost got mad at his own works success after the saiyan and namek saga then with the cell saga was honestly bored (Steph curry throwing a hissy fit because fans want him in the 3 point contest but no he loves to dunk even though he sucks at it) So yes the saiyan saga makes sense from beginning to end The namek saga makes sense The buu saga even makes sense and he figured out how to combine the gag thing with a actual serious threat in the original majin buu Now go re read how I explained the cell saga and tell me how anything except the ending makes sense (By the way he could've copy and pasted any of the androids or frieza into the ending) (Most likely planned to use frieza killed him off) (Most likely planned to use the dr gero android got bored) (Most likely planned for a crazy showdown with the z fighters and 16 17 & 18 with gohan saving the day in any of those examples) Instead his over reliance on that strange sense of humor He ends up ruining the reputation of several characters especially the villains because he wants to try to be funny but isn't That's why after the namek saga and before literally kid buu Name 1 seriously intimidating villain other than 1st form cell He also does this to vegeta and super fixes this but I don't think super is 100% toriyama If we use how similar sonic the hedgehog and Dragon ball are Take a character like shadow for example who right now in 2024 is having a huge resurgence and fans are loving it Vegeta is one of the best anime characters of all time and that will never happen for him Because toriyama's over reliance on gag and putting his characters in strange situations to try to be funny Leads to him ruining any intimidation factor of any of these characters perfect example robot frieza and his dad. Intimidating for 2 seconds to be wiped out in 2 seconds Not all of his work. But a lot of dragon ball in general is like a adhd kid playing with actions figures "And this happens and then the bad guy goes woosh then goku is like get off my friend but the goku has a heart virus but wait future trunks goes caboosh and vegeta breaks his arm but ohh no everyone in the city disappeared but here comes gohan and gohan was like ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Now that's funny
Cell saga was one of the best. The androids, cell, future trunks, the story lime, the brutality of cell, the tournament, vegeeta closure and acceptance.
You also have to remember the aduience for DBZ, its children. Children dont need good writing, they need fancy explosions, and thats what Buu, GT, and Super are for. DBZ was never peak thought out anime, its meant for children to be entertained while their parents ignore them. Its not a show for us and its not a show thats meant to grow with us thats why Goku's actor still sounds like a child in Super...
You know nothing about japanese shows. This is not Backyardigans. Some shounen anime are way deeper than whatever adult comedy you're watching in your 20s, because they take themselves seriously. So if a shounen is nonsense, it's nonsense
@@uandresbrito5685 i was never comparing this to the backyardigans or shows like it. But its still mindless entertainment. And just because its japanese doesnt mean it has to have a deeper meaning not all anime are Evangelion. Some are just like the power rangers, new big baddie these week, this season, this arc. And isnt the power rangers japanese or some thing? Thats what early DBZ about i feel. Even current DBZ doesnt have some mythodical reasoning behind it, the artist is probably just like "oh man i already made vegeta struggle with this here, so lets make him struggle with this next! The fans would love it" and we do love it, but its the youtubers who add greater meaning based off the trauma in their lives. Its just not that deep, its a show to distract kids while their parents cheat on each other
@@Soyboythoughts It's not. Power Rangers is american and it's original counterpart,Super Sentai, can feel way more like shounen anime. It's not that japanese = mature, but that the demography for shounen is not the demography for our children shows. Death Note ws a manga has the same demography as Dragon Ball. You need to understand that. And no, it's not mindless. It just feels goofy because it's old, but Dragon Ball takes itself very seriously most of the time after the King Piccolo arc.
It’s good until the end. Gohan vs cell has some of the worst choreography in the series, and Gohan’s attitude is insufferable. Gohan already ended lives on namek, but just this time he decides that he doesn’t want to fight?
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
The poor writing kills the Cell Saga for me. Almost all of the Z fighters act like complete idiots with Vegeta and Krillin being the most egregious.
Despite the flaws it's like the 2nd best Arc
It actually makes sense for their characters lol, u just don’t understand their writing and the point of their characters
@@aka-fusion8909 yeah i feel its the buu Saga that got it wrong
Poor decision but they are kind of in character
Bruh goku is one of the most idiots near vegeta he doesn't understands Gohans feelings and he even realises his mistake after piccolo explaining it
Frieza saga is peak, no question.
Agreed
Agreed
Strongly agree. There's a video by the channel PlagueofGripes called 'Gohan's Many Masks' explaining he's a pretty flat character that is nothing more than a 'weapon' that needs to get pushed in pressure situations. He just needs to be prodded into being angry enough and that's the magic solution to problems as seen in the Cell saga.
Gohan is anything but flat and frankly that video comes off as hating the character.
Great video. Personally, I think anything after the Frieza Saga sucks because the quality of writing dropped sufficiently starting with the Cell Saga and things getting worse & worse in Buu Saga.
Careful readers can tell story after Frieza are like cheap add-on to the original story without a well thought out outline with many contradiction to the early story & much weaker story execution. Toriyama admitted in many interviews he didn't enjoy writing Dragon Ball anymore due to high pressure from the publishers & readers.
The storytelling peaked with the Frieza Saga. It should have concluded after that arc. Then the franchise could have just been continued with one-off films after that.
The minute you have Goku become the legendary Super Saiyan, and defeat Frieza, the ultimate evil power in the universe....only for Frieza to come back as a cyborg just to get wrecked by a punk with a sword who is then revealed to be delivering a doomsday warning from the future...to me that goes into serious "jumping the shark" territory.
After that, it didn't feel like a story was being told, it didn't feel like the Dragon Balls were in any way a focal point of the series...it just felt like we were exclusively watching a show that existed to always justify more fights no matter how contrived or idiotic the character decisions might be...and the Dragon Balls were just a plot device on the side of all of that.
The mistakes came about in the Cell Saga as a result of Cell being shoehorned into the plot and Toriyama being forced by his editor to constantly change him and drag the story out. Ruined the Androids saga. The writing is so terrible.
Cell was not even supposed to be the main villain and the editor forced Akira Toriyama to put him in and to keep changing his abilities and purpose. Really screwed everything up.
Watching History Of Trunks one can see how effective villains 17 & 18 were and are and how wrong Toriyama's editor, Hirokazu Torishimia, truly was
Hell, Super Android 13 is likely closer to what Toriyama intended and I don't say that lightly.
I agree, they could've done much better
9:15 str8 up had nightmares about 1st form Cell coming to drain me when I was a kid. Dude was scary but still not nearly as sadistic as Frieza.
I think people just reach to deep. I never saw dragon ball as a well written series. There’s so many plot holes, so many things that don’t make sense.
However, every arc is in the db & DBZ is good. Sure it has its flaws, but ultimately it’s something we grew up as kids/teens. We didn’t go this deep into the story & find its flaws. We Simply enjoyed the series.
Why can't you just bloody apprecite the series for what it is!!@ especially since Toriyama died!@
@@zemox2534ikr?
@@zemox2534rest in peace Akira Toriyama.
Bro your dbz takes are always great , loved this video 🔥🔥🔥
Ssj Gohan is trash in my opinion. Should've just kept him in base forever seeing as he is basically a borderline side character for the rest of the franchise. Beast Gohan is lazy and lame too.
Tien holding off Cell was at least top 5 in that arc. That shit would give me a feeling that's hard to explain. I also have to say, why are there references to the Android Saga when we are talking about the Cell Saga? Yea it had SOMETHING to do with Cell, but it was not the same saga. Holy. What are 17/18s motives? How are you confused about that? lol Cell is bitching because he has Frieza's cells in him. Frieza would do the same if he were restricted. Cells also have a memory. I don't know enough about it to make an argument, but there's a reason that evolution works. The SSJ deal, that is pretty asinine. It's obvious that once you get used to a transformation with years of true battle experience, it's not shocking that it would become easier to excel at it. Goku has ALWAYS been exceling at an excessive rate. It shouldn't come as a shock when he is significantly stronger then Trunks. Trunks kept running into a wall and would run out of fear of death. He RARELY had the option to push himself to the brink of death and he fought as a necessity of survival. So unless he was backed into a corner, he would run. Where as Goku took ALL challenges as serious as any other. The "good" parts I agreed with, but every bad part you mentioned was extremely short sighted. I'm surprised you don't have more dislikes. This is 50/50 for me so I won't rate it.
honestly most these peoples reasoning really sucks thank god someone had some sense
💯
I’m watching dbz for the first time and I agree as of right now I like the Frieza sage more than this arc and some arcs in og dragon ball I’d put over this one
I think you've misunderstood Cell's transformations. They weren't a case of requiring specific androids to be present, but requiring a specific power level to be achieved - and the only way Gero knew to accomplish this was via the androids. The zenkai boost from the absolute beating he took from Gohan was enough to offset the loss of android 18, as well as pushing Cell to achieve super saiyan (or ssj2 depending on who was animating each slide). Whether or not that much of a boost was appropriate is completely up for argument, but just being back in his perfect form isn't as incorrect as you make it out to be.
I also disagree a little on your take about 17 and 18. I think their actions make a lot of sense. They're kids, set loose with unrivalled power and no real objective or clue what to do. They're bored so take a road trip. The only thing repeating in their head is the core programming of "kill goku" and at the lack of anything else to do, they do that. Where I think the writing gets clever is that the 17 and 18 never make an aggresive action against the Z fighters - they only ever respond to the Z fighters attacking them. Kami points this out and initially refuses to fuse with Piccolo as a result. It's only Kami sensing Cell that pushes him to fuse, and Picollo again misunderstands this and immediately goes to fight 17 and 18.
Ur spitting 10000% fax
Except those only came about through contrived writing via external meddling.
Also, 17 & 18 say they wanted to kill Goku because it was going to be fun like everything else they clearly intended to originally, "part of a game" as 17 put it.
Krillin selling the squad had me hot😂😂😂
Called 19 a she lol
u shouldve talked about krillin bro, he sold and had the audacity to say "stupid vegeta" 😅
A lot of the complaints in this video honestly just don't really work for me.
Example, 16 bomb thing is an anime only statement.
Cell acting cowardly, it's just the character acting true to himself and it helps the themes of Dragon Ball be consistent.
Cell was desperate to prove he is just better than everyone, so when he's the one being beaten his traits of cowardice are put on full display.
Cells motivation is clear, he simply wants to kill and watch the terror of the world. He wants to see humanity tremble over his ''perfect power'' as he believes. It's why he becomes complacent and doesn't work for any more power after obtaining his perfect form. He genuinely thinks he's perfect.
Those are just a few things which can all be agreed upon if everyone actually read the manga for Dragon Ball. Not Super or nothing just the manga titled Dragon Ball, which starts with Goku in the woods and ends with him flying off with Oob.
Cell coming back with his explanation makes sense if your not getting irritated at every little thing, now first.
There's a narrative, Cell coming back that way at its core is due to the characters needing to develop past their mistakes and Cell coming back after Goku just planned to have him die there fits with Goku's decision at the end to stay dead.
Second, Cell has Saiyan cells/Genetics. Him coming back from near death and becoming so much more powerful makes sense, though If I would give you anything him coming back in his perfect form doesn't make the MOST sense. But it really doesn't matter, him coming back that way doesn't affect the story or narrative or anything for the matter in a negative way.
Him learning instant transmission makes a lot of sense actually, we've seen characters learn moves just by seeing it once. (Goku seeing Roshi's Kamehameha) Why is it so bad when Cell who has the cells of Freeza, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc, is also able to do that?
Also Toriyama being conflicted on the antagonists doesn't mean the story was supposed to end earlier. And honestly if you think the story really should end at Namek. ... Thats just stupid. The story perfectly ends with the Majin Boo arc which wraps up Goku's character arc perfectly, taking that out just ruins the build up to the finale.
Minor grips like Super Saiyan not being special anymore doesn't matter. It doesn't affect anything in the story. Just because the characters keep evolving past Super Saiyan doesn't devalue it inherently. Characters always evolve past their limits, Roshi, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn for examples who after their character arc wraps up they take a backseat in the story.
Semi Perfect shouldn't have complained though. They should have just waited until he was losing to Gohan to make him cry since he was at his Perfect form and losing. They should have just made him accept his L against Vegeta and just manipulate him to let him be Perfect instead of having him cry to.
You forgot to mention that goku blew up cell’s top half with a k wave and came back from that
I’ve always say the problem every one has with the 2 latest dbs arcs (Moro and granohola arcs) has been been a problem in the series after the namek arc
1. Toriyama never intended on ending dbz after cell
2. Cell was able to learn instant transmission after witnessing Goku use it multiple times
3. Cells motive after he came perfect made sense since he has saiyan genes he would want to test out his perfect form and his strength against the z fighters so he held the cell games so he can test his new strength
4. Cell being able to reach his super perfect form after spitting out 18 made sense since he got a zenkai boost from his saiyan cells
💯
Cell was just there he didn't had a real Goal to achieve
The reason the Androids were less evil in the main timeline than in Future Trunks timeline is because Dr Gero was forced to activate them earlier in the main timeline as a result of the tip off from Future Trunks and the Z fighters having him cornered. He wasn't able to finish their programming.
In Future Trunks timeline, this never occurred and Gero was able to complete their programming to it's fullest, making them as evil and destructive as he wanted.
I get it though, it's never made clear in the show and kinda just left to the audience to figure it out.
When you dropping the Buu saga?
Now make a vidoe saying Majin Buu is overhated. Seriously, seeing so many people just shit on him for no reason is really tiring.
People shit on the arc for many valid reasons. The arc starts of good but just falls off and has many terrible aspects. The pacing in it is atrocious and it drags on to much.
The Cell arc is my favorite arc, but I do agree the Freeza arc is overall better. I believe Gohan pretty much saves the arc from looking worse.
Gohan's peak moments in the Cell arc, finally culminating everything we have seen from him since the start of the show, THAT'S the best development cash in of the series in my opinion, and that's why so many people love it. However, if you look at the arc as a whole, there's no way you can say it's better than the Namek/Freeza saga. The only character that had as much weight to them as the storylines in that arc was Gohan. And he isn't enough to elevate it past the entirety of the Freeza saga. Freeza will always be the best villain of the show. No one will have as much gravitas to match him 💯
I love Dragon Ball. It will always be one of my favorite animes.
The Cell saga is the only time throughout the entirety of the show where I have felt bored following the story.
Yapping
😂
This arc is great but yeah I agree about Semi Perfect Cell. Him getting pissy about Vegeta's winning took away from him as a villain. His personality in his Imperfect form and Perfect form are great but Semi Perfect Cell had an ugly design and his complaining was annoying. Instead of complaining Toriyama should have just made him manipulate Vegeta to let him reach perfection right when he was losing without having him cry.
stop saying they were supposed to end the show. Toriyama NEVER confirmed that the cell saga was the ending
He was gonna end it after the Pilaf Saga
Considering doing the whole original Dragon ball series
Think of the saiyan and namek saga they flow they make sense
The cell saga
(Frieza isn't dead he's alive as a cyborg and his dad is with him on earth)
15 minutes later
(A new mystery saiyan appears and smokes frieza and his dad in 2 seconds)
.......
(This saiyan is from the future to warn us about a new threat)
Let's not even mention while I love trunks as a character how he was able to not only go back in time but everyone finds out he's from the future and he meets his younger self several times with no consequences
(The threat arrives androids who can't be sensed and drain energy)
Trunks comes back again with no consequences and now vegeta and bulma realize who he is (as if it wasn't obvious bulma is carrying a baby with a complete unique hair color the entire time and she and vegeta just now figure it out)
(Wait these aren't the right androids 3rd villain swap by the way)
(We find the real androids and while this makes sense in like dragon ball gt and super it doesn't make sense in Z but they are literally robot rebellious teenagers who are too cool to do anything but joy ride around claiming to want to kill goku while goku is dying at the moment anyway)
(Ohh. Because by the way goku didn't take the medicine that was the entire point of trunks potentially messing up the future even more by going back in time in the first place)
(Then randomly something strange is happening... 4th villain swap)
(In comes cell who needs the other androids to become his perfect form)
(1st form cell is murdering people on a regular basis. What does he do when he becomes perfect)
"Hey everyone I'm kind of perfect I'm better than you let's have a tournament"
(While the goku vegeta etc dna makes sense... he completely switches motivations)
I won't even continue to the end of the ark because the ending is decent but even in this TH-cam video the guy specifically says
"Things were clearly supposed to end after the namek saga and toriyama didn't have anything planned for this arc except the end"
Where did he lie? Like re read any of that.
The buu saga has less of what I was describing but this saga this man is literally making up shit as he goes and don't lie while using one villain to erase the villain toriyama got bored with just like the "saiyan tale disappearance"
I love dbz even this arc I like super never watched GT but it seems interesting
I'm currently watching the original DB however in season 1 of DB
It is obvious as hell Toriyama is not a action writer
He's a gag writer. He most enjoys taking his characters and putting them in situations that cause something out of the ordinary that supposed to be funny
The fact it's a cartoon where goku is patting women's vaginas because he doesn't understand gender or how roshi acts in season 1 shows that the show itself was supposed to be another gag manga
I don't know what made him decide to make dbz but I gravitate to that more than what toriyama likes to do because let's say his preference is gag manga's
That could work. I'm not saying all of his work is bad but he has a very strange sense of humor to say the least 😂
So it's almost like if Steph curry insisted on being in the dunk contest
That's toriyama dbz is his best work in my opinion however he prefers gag reels while again having a very strange sense of humor himself (I'm not saying good or actually funny)
I think he almost got mad at his own works success after the saiyan and namek saga then with the cell saga was honestly bored
(Steph curry throwing a hissy fit because fans want him in the 3 point contest but no he loves to dunk even though he sucks at it)
So yes the saiyan saga makes sense from beginning to end
The namek saga makes sense
The buu saga even makes sense and he figured out how to combine the gag thing with a actual serious threat in the original majin buu
Now go re read how I explained the cell saga and tell me how anything except the ending makes sense
(By the way he could've copy and pasted any of the androids or frieza into the ending)
(Most likely planned to use frieza killed him off)
(Most likely planned to use the dr gero android got bored)
(Most likely planned for a crazy showdown with the z fighters and 16 17 & 18 with gohan saving the day in any of those examples)
Instead his over reliance on that strange sense of humor
He ends up ruining the reputation of several characters especially the villains because he wants to try to be funny but isn't
That's why after the namek saga and before literally kid buu
Name 1 seriously intimidating villain other than 1st form cell
He also does this to vegeta and super fixes this but I don't think super is 100% toriyama
If we use how similar sonic the hedgehog and Dragon ball are
Take a character like shadow for example who right now in 2024 is having a huge resurgence and fans are loving it
Vegeta is one of the best anime characters of all time and that will never happen for him
Because toriyama's over reliance on gag and putting his characters in strange situations to try to be funny
Leads to him ruining any intimidation factor of any of these characters perfect example robot frieza and his dad. Intimidating for 2 seconds to be wiped out in 2 seconds
Not all of his work. But a lot of dragon ball in general is like a adhd kid playing with actions figures
"And this happens and then the bad guy goes woosh then goku is like get off my friend but the goku has a heart virus but wait future trunks goes caboosh and vegeta breaks his arm but ohh no everyone in the city disappeared but here comes gohan and gohan was like ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Now that's funny
Idk mustard, I got to watch it again.
💯
Cell saga was one of the best. The androids, cell, future trunks, the story lime, the brutality of cell, the tournament, vegeeta closure and acceptance.
I like perfect call and 16.
Even the Android Saga was good, literally every z fighter felt useful. The Cell Saga was so boring
This arc is HEAVILY carried by it's climax
Lowkey
You also have to remember the aduience for DBZ, its children. Children dont need good writing, they need fancy explosions, and thats what Buu, GT, and Super are for. DBZ was never peak thought out anime, its meant for children to be entertained while their parents ignore them. Its not a show for us and its not a show thats meant to grow with us thats why Goku's actor still sounds like a child in Super...
nah whatever your dealer is supplying u, it aint weed
You know nothing about japanese shows. This is not Backyardigans. Some shounen anime are way deeper than whatever adult comedy you're watching in your 20s, because they take themselves seriously.
So if a shounen is nonsense, it's nonsense
@@whitebwoi i dont have a dealer, i dont do drugs/alchohol/smoking/coffee, my head is clean.
@@uandresbrito5685 i was never comparing this to the backyardigans or shows like it. But its still mindless entertainment. And just because its japanese doesnt mean it has to have a deeper meaning not all anime are Evangelion. Some are just like the power rangers, new big baddie these week, this season, this arc. And isnt the power rangers japanese or some thing? Thats what early DBZ about i feel. Even current DBZ doesnt have some mythodical reasoning behind it, the artist is probably just like "oh man i already made vegeta struggle with this here, so lets make him struggle with this next! The fans would love it" and we do love it, but its the youtubers who add greater meaning based off the trauma in their lives. Its just not that deep, its a show to distract kids while their parents cheat on each other
@@Soyboythoughts It's not. Power Rangers is american and it's original counterpart,Super Sentai, can feel way more like shounen anime. It's not that japanese = mature, but that the demography for shounen is not the demography for our children shows. Death Note ws a manga has the same demography as Dragon Ball. You need to understand that.
And no, it's not mindless. It just feels goofy because it's old, but Dragon Ball takes itself very seriously most of the time after the King Piccolo arc.
It’s good until the end. Gohan vs cell has some of the worst choreography in the series, and Gohan’s attitude is insufferable. Gohan already ended lives on namek, but just this time he decides that he doesn’t want to fight?
Gohan didn’t kill on namek
He only killed like 1 Frieza Soldier on Namek
Yall better like the vid it's good
Worst take. Cell saga 2nd best
BRO THANK YOU
Cell is basically god goku before godku
came to drop a dislike, not watching this cap
Lmao you're not even ashamed
It's the best arc 8n all of drgaonball each character development
I’ve always said the Frieza Saga should’ve been the ending of DBZ
Not a chance, you can say it peaked there but it was still an elite show after that nonetheless
It peaked there but saying it should have ended there is ridiculous