ha ha, that's what I wrote to Adam that the problem in yt is that it doesn't have 10 times the speed of the video, so he got angry, even though he could summarize the story in half the time and the worst of all is that half of it is wrong
I usually think after the first minute, "I have the gist of this and I can bounce now", but mysteriously my attention is kept. I keep listening and become smarter and fascinated with the minutia of each topic. Good content here with Josh!
1:54 re: plate stretch in the "plastic" region. I'm sure Josh meant to say elastic deformation, because he goes on to say that the plate returns to it's original shape once the load is removed.
This video is really awesome for us nerds. Chain wear is the best term. Also, chain elongation would be better than chain stretch. BTW, plastic stretch is permanent deformation; elastic stretch is reversible.
Agree with the comments of many others, let's see a new chain on new and used cassettes as well as worn chain on new and used cassettes and when to replace a cassette relative to replacing the chain. Great video, been using Super Secret for 2-3 years now, great product!
Are the hot waxed chains being measured after being ridden prior to re-adding wax? Or are they being measured after a reapplication of hot wax? Wouldn't the hot wax be filling in the voids and creating a bad measurement? I'm always curious to this as it's never been stated when measuring is occurring and I think it would be more transparent. I'm also interested in seeing the e-bike chain being measured before it's next treatment.
I suppose it's semantics. I agree with everything you say but effectively if the chain is longer then it has stretched. Wear is the cause of elongation that's all. I've never called it stretch, we always say to check for chain wear. Great video as usual Josh, I like your enthusiasm and of course your engineering expertise
Your explanation about why round additive particles don't work, in a span of 30 seconds, does what Adam couldn't explain over the course of 40 minutes...
I think stretch is a good term because it describes a specific type of chain wear. If you have a different term for that, then i would suggest to use that term instead of just wear.
This is the absolute best and concise explanation of chain wear I have seen/heard. Great job! I'd like to put a vote in for recommended chain check tools - there seem to be two schools of devices that measure stack up differently. Also any recommendations of lubricants and/or best practices for chain cleaning. I have always liked the lubricants that (claim to) 'flush' the chain and the carrier evaporates - thanks again.
Hey Josh, love, love, love the nerd-outs! I have been a mechanic for 20 plus yrs and i have been using a tape measure to yea/nay chains. When i see 12.000" nominal on the tape I'm happy, when we are at a 1/64 to 1/32 (1/32 roughly .030" or just shy of a mm) i am officially getting concerned. Chain gets replaced as well as pulleys and when this happens again, its cassette and ring time. I'm with you, "stretch" is not accurate and calling it that certainly is triggering, lol. I just say that it has "worn long and is out of spec". Ron
Simply excellent video. Thank you. Been waxing my chains for many years and constantly suggesting to folk,that keeping a clean chain will increase its life.
Really appreciate your mention of the plastic polymer chain lubes (Dumonde Tech). I've never noticed a coating on the Dumonde chains I've been running. And I did prep my chains thoroughly and used it for 20 years. I guess I'll have to take a closer look!
Absolutely marvelous explanation. The chain have always been a mystery to me. I'll probably take a part the next chain I replace. Please make more of these kind of videos. I'd like Josh to explain every detail of bikes and friction, and bearings and so on.
Lighten up, Francis! Stretch is perfectly fine. Most people say stuff like "I removed my tire to put my bike in the car" all the time. I doubt you jump all over their semantics when they say that. TBH, I oftentimes do. But I'm not so worried about using the misnomer stretch.
Very nice video! The microscopic views were sooo helpful, as was the bottle-in-the-ring demo (showing how the pin and roller interact). Suggestion: showing the microscopic view of the bushing really helped make that understandable. Also, I got lost with the term 'journal'. Has to be a workaround for using that term. And finally, calling it 'chain wear' is perfect, because that's exactly what's happening.
All my cycling buddies and myself regardless of discipline say "chain wear". I haven't hear anyone say stretch for a long time. Cables stretch, chains wear. Great film.👍
Great vid, and explanation! Maybe do a TH-cam short (and other platform short videos) where you show the movement at 14:55 along side a new chain, with voiceover. Would be an even better visual.
good informative video, thanks, might have been useful to show a new chain of the same type for comparison. have also been waxing chains for about 3 years plus and love the lack of wear.
Just to reiterate your point on proper lubrication. I wnt from needing a new chain and cassette to be replaced every year (I did wash and lube then) and now with silca wax I'm 18months without any measurable wear
I'm routinely getting 7500+ miles on chains with very minimal stretch(couldn't resist), have 3 different bikes with more than 50k miles each and all original cassettes. Any one thinking the wax and pot is expensive is staring at the tree oblivious to the forest.
Timely comments about the ball bearing idea, given Adam's initial findings on a particular immersive wax he's testing! 😂 In all seriousness though, I freakin love the work both you and Adam are doing to bust myths and try to get everyone educated about how their bikes actually work, and how to best take care of them. I kind of like "elongation wear", because it's wear ... That causes elongation?🤷🏻 Or how about "journal/bushing interface erosion"? 😂
Hi Josh, may you show us how the lubricant penetrates in all this parts of the chain under the microscope? I would be interesting, even using the quick release links in order to be able to assemble/disassemble the chain during lubing. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Excellent video thank you. So many different lubricants and claims. Finally got to a graphene based hot wax and be very interested in how the chains wear as they are getting be be a pretty expensive component these days. Thanks again for the excellent information
Ha! TOTAL vindication!!!! Just catching some Olympic track cycling and watching women's team sprint from a day or two ago. At around 21:10, they show a bunch of bike close-ups. Well at 21:20, they zoom in on one of their massive chain rings. Nice (clean) nickel-plated chain that's OBVIOUSLY WAXED!!! You can see the wax bunched on the edges of the outside plates, over the inner link plaes. When your monster Olympian track cyclists are using wax, you KNOW you're onto something!!!!
I think I disagree on some parts. The pin will cause friction on the inner plate, which caused the friction mark on the pin, no rolling here I believe. Pin is static - the inner plate is rotating around the static pin. The roller might be rolling on the cassette and on the flange off the inner plate, that I believe is the engineering marvel in the chain. Or did I not pay enough attention? So we have a combination of static and rolling friction in a chain.
I agree with you, the bushes of the left hand and right hand inner plates make contact with the pin, this point of contact moves around the pin (in a small arc) as the chain articulates around the chainwheel and sprockets, the inner plates bushes rub or "slide" over the pin going through them, the friction at his point of contact produces the two shiny areas pointed out in the close-up of the worn pin. I don't buy this "rolling friction".
Been waxing for 2 years now. Each time I pull a chain off for another trip through the crockpot I measure it for wear with park's little tool. There is no wear. It's nuts. Months and months of riding and no wear.
I get the same, i track my maintenance on a spreadsheet, and measure wear each time, and i've never had any chain wear. and sometimes i'm tardy and do 500 km on the same waxing!
Not sure if misunderstanding what you wrote, but if you measure the chain AFTER waxing, it won’t show wear because the pin/bushing clearances will be filled with wax. Measure wear after cleaning and BEFORE waxing.
@@GHinWI right. I measure when they come off the bike. I rotate 4 dura ace 11 hollow pin chains on two bikes. It’s been 2 years and only one shows any wear at all. 14k miles.
I love tripping out on these processes with each turn of the peddles. My question concerns the riding conditions of your ride to work and your dip frequency on your commuter EBike for the last 2500 miles?
If chain elongation is a product of certain loadbearing surfaces wearing together, can chain lifespan be extended by reversing the direction of the chain when reinstalling after waxing?
hi josh. great video again.. i would like to see a "contaminated" disk brake rotor. i don t believe its not cleanable. but everyone sais its toast.. please show the contaminated vs new vs cleaned ;) thank you :)
Hi Josh - another great video, thanks! Two questions: first, how many chains can be treated with a bag of the Super Secret wax? Second, are there liquids you can use in an ultrasonic cleaner that are better than water for cleaning a chain?
You should get 40-50 waxings per bag of SecretBlend hot wax, it all depends on how much gets dripped or spilled and if you have chains with hollow pins and cuttouts as those tend to hold slightly more wax, but at the low end we say 40+. For cleaning in an ultrasonic you can use SILCA Chain Stripper for anythying with oil and grease, and once you are converted to wax, you can just use boiling, or near boiling water to remove wax and dirt.
Did the 'trichoidal' shape of pin used in the Rohloff S-L-T 99 really do what was claimed for it? The idea was something like "instead of a round pin with a small radius, we have a Wankel rotary-shaped pin with three sections, each having the effect of a much larger radius that wears much slower". I really like the chains in general, but they never made any narrower than 9 speed, and stopped production on even those.
Nice video, and, as others mentioned, a tad more concise than Adam :). What I fail to understand however is the rolling mechanism. Can there be rolling when you have a tight interface, as you have in a new chain? I guess for rolling to occur, you need enough space to lift the posterior part of the rolling item, otherwise it will slide, or am I under a misconception?
If the rollers didn't roll then as each tooth picks up a link in the chain it would grind its way to the bottom of the valley between each tooth... it's like the difference between rolling down a hill and sliding down a hill
On the teeth it makes sense, yes... But while the rollers roll down between the teeth, they slide on the bushing/shoulders of the plates, at least in my imagination.
@@aelaeks Exactly... the wax coating between the rollers and inner plates and between the rollers and pins reduces that sliding friction better than any oil-based chain lube. Think of those shoulders more like spacers that serve to keep the roller located perpendicular to the pin so as the shoulders wear away due to abrasion the distance between each roller increases under load - some call that stretch and others call it elongation.
Great video - would love for you to address how to know when its time to rewax. I just took a chain off that's been quiet and performing great, but its worn a good bit. WIth oil, I used to just listen for it to start squeaking, but my waxed chains haven't squeaked. (or maybe I'm losing my hearing :D )
as wax wears away from the surface between the inner plates and rollers and between the pins and rollers you should notice the chain making more of a rattling sound which indicates that it's time to melt out the old wax and contaminants with boiling water and re-immerse the chain in molten wax for a few minutes
Chain abrasion - would be more precise as the term is limited to 'wearing away ' and addresses the how more directly Chain wear - is more broad and would include would included material fatigue as well (physically stretching in this case). The lack of precise wording makes it easier to conflat the end result (stretch) with an inaccurate means of wear.
I’m on board with Hans - chain elongation. But really, chain stretch isn’t so bad. It’s not like anyone is saying side plates are stretching. The assembly known as chain is becoming longer.
as wax wears away from the surface between the inner plates and rollers and between the pins and rollers you should notice the chain making more of a rattling sound which indicates that it's time to melt out the old wax and contaminants with boiling water and re-immerse the chain in molten wax for a few minutes
As johnlesoudeur3653 says, when your chain starts to sound a bit more noisier than usual then it's time to re-wax. If in doubt, re-wax it. It doesn't take long and there's no harm in "early" re-waxing, you can't damage your chain by over-waxing.
Maybe important for your listeners/viewers, so they do not get totally the wrong idea. You clarify the difference between elastic and plastic. Unfortunately at 1:56 you have misquoted plastic, when you should have explained a minimal amount of elastic stretch occurs on chains, when very high power/forces go through the chain, but the chain length returns when the force is removed. ❤
Hi Josh. Great video. I recently purchased a new chain, stripped it with your chain stripper, installed it and then applied your Super Secret chain drip on wax. I did not hot wax it. All is going good regarding chain wear etc. After watching this video, I still am confused how drip on wax penetrates the rollers and pins? Does it have penetrant properties? Thanks!
I've been doing some internal thinking about this and it was great to see it in real life! The other thing I would like to see is how the rollers interface with the cassette and the chain rings. My naive understanding is that the sprockets form essentially a plain bearing on the rollers because there is no load on the rollers (the load is on the pins instead, I assume). So, theoretically you don't actually need any lubrication there. I'm wondering if that's correct. The main thing is that I'm actually a bit confused at how the load is transferred to the sprockets in order to drive the wheel. It would be nice to see *how* the wear from an elongated chain happens on the cassette, etc. It was also nice to hear you speak about additives in the lubricants and how they are used to essentially harden the bushings/pins in the rollers. One thing I'd like to know specifically about hot wax application is how the wax lubricates. I'm actually very uneducated about how lubrication works at all! I *guess* that you want a lubricant that is relatively uncompressible to isolate the pin from the bushing, but I've got no idea whether or not that is correct. In the best case scenario (your lubricant is present) will you get significant contact? Are the additives essentially a fallback mechanism, or does it actually help reduce friction in that best case scenario as well? It's interesting to me that wax essentially fills the gaps between the pin an the bushing and it is solid at room temperature/pressures, so it's very hard for it to leak out. Does the wax typically melt under pressure inside the bushing? If so, is there any understanding about where that melting may stop? I'm interested mainly because someone else rightly pointed out that solid wax tends to shear easily and I'm wondering where that transition happens (if there is one). Sorry, for the truck load of questions (that may be unhelpful due to my ignorance on the subject). But it would be nice if you could present a bit more of an overview of how it works. I'm really being greedy here because you've already done a lot with just this video!
I see that you are honest and that you have the right way of thinking, and that you are on the right path, so I will help you create a picture of what is happening there: the answer to the first question is: the chain that rotates when the pedals are turned comes from the bottom side of the sprocket-on 6 hours, and until now the chain is unburdened by pedaling force, as the chain comes out of the gearbox it bends on the sprocket, but without any load. as the sprocket is turned upwards from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, the force in the chain begins to increase and reaches its maximum between 10 and 12 o'clock. while the sprocket is turned, as the force increases, the chain moves slightly along the sprocket from the neutral position towards the top of the teeth, how high will climb depends on the step of the chain, i.e. its wear, the more worn the chain is, the higher it climbs on the tooth because the teeth are radially positioned, at a larger radius there is a greater circumference. while the chain moves along the chainring, the ring rolls along the tooth and along the inner link and that are the only ones that roll. when the chain leaves the chainring, it straightens, and at the same time, under load, the pin slides inside the inner link and this is where the main wear of the chain occurs, also when it comes to the chain ring at 12 o'clock. on a bicycle, you do not need to lubricate the surface of the teeth on which the ring rolls because the loads are small, unlike the car differential, which would wear out immediately, because at high loads metal welding happens, as if you have two chewing gum that you touch and they stick to each other and tear the material from each other. that's all for now, as the chain climbs the tooth, the tooth becomes narrower and thus its contact surface decreases, and since the force in the chain is the same, the contact pressure increases. since the chainrings are made of different qualities of steel, some will begin to plastically deform sooner, some later, mostly to crushing and plastic deformation of the contact surface of the tooth, not the entire tooth. as the chain wears, his pitch increases, so the chain climbs higher on the tooth, which further wears the teeth go to my channel and you'll see interesting things
in relation to lubrication: when sliding, a big role is played by the viscosity, which is determined by the long polymer chains that prevent direct contact with the metal and circulates, i.e. it returns to the surface, but the wax is rigid and does not return to the surface, so in fact it should be as soft as possible, i.e. the melting temperature is as close as possible to the ambient temperature but so that it does not become sticky, which would catch impurities on the chain that would directly affect the wear of the chain.the wax becomes semi-liquid under load, but it also depends on the melting temperature, if the benefit is the pure wax without paraffin or any other oil, in the winter it will be too hard and it will crumble and it will come out of the chain very quickly, that's why you need to add oil so that the wax became softer if the outside temperature is lower. this all applies to pure wax without additives and it is necessary to re-wax the chain every 100km or sooner. if additives are added to the wax: teflon, mos, wos, then the waxing should be repeated between 200 and 300 km depending on the additives that work by sticking onto the contact surfaces and thus preventing direct metal contact, especially Teflon, which ozzy cycle claims is the best additive and guarantees the longest waxing interval.
Hey Josh, love the videos and Marginal Gains podcast. I'm hot waxing my Dura-Ace chain with Secret blend, is there a wax treatment I can do my to stock Dura-Ace rear derailleur pulleys? I was thinking of hot waxing the bushings and the plates that go between the pulleys and the housing. Thoughts?
I say 'so-called chain stretch'. Then the other person either needs the explanation that it's actually the cumulative effect of minute increases in play at the multiple points of contact, or the other person doesn't and we can proceed.
I'd love to hear Josh's thoughts on SRAM's flattop chain. When it was introduced, I didn't get the point as I already knew wear primarily happens at the pins and bushings. SRAM claims the "added material on the flat side of the chain plates strengthens every link," but it seems like this design is just playing into the chain "stretch" myth. Thoughts? Full quote from SRAM's website: "What if you could add range to your drivetrain while also smoothing the gear progression with smaller differences in tooth count between neighboring gears? And what if you could gain that without losing drivetrain efficiency or having to replace your chain more frequently? Our unique Flattop chain link design is a key element that makes all of these improvements possible. To gain a wider gear range with smaller gearing steps, the chain has to get narrower. With Flattop, we’ve added material on the flat side of the chain plates to strengthen every link. The Hard Chrome surface treatment on the pins, inner plates, and rollers also extends the life of the chain and keeps it shifting precisely over the long haul. Additionally, Flattop chains feature longer wearing large diameter rollers that help deliver the same drivetrain efficiency as our 11-speed drivetrains. All of these technologies together have enabled us to engineer a narrower 12-speed chain that lasts 36% longer than our 11-speed chains. With the Flattop chain design it’s like having your cake and eating it too… except this cake actually helps you to be faster on the bike… and you don’t have to buy cake as often… There might be a better metaphor to explain it, but we like cake, so we’re sticking with it."
Using larger diameter rollers means that more surface area of the roller is contacting each tooth on the cassette sprocket and chain ring gear so there will be more side load on the chain when shifting to a larger gear/sprocket/cog which is where the added material on the flat side of the chain plates helps to reinforce each link to accept a higher side load... Seems like they created a problem with larger diameter rollers then resolved it with beefier side plates and served that to their marketing department.
Question: I saw a channel claiming that wear indicator is inferior to chain elongation measurement. Is this true? If so, at what elongation % should you replace the chain?
Hi SILCA. Very informative video. Thanks for sharing. Shot question, have you tried to buy something from your website? I like your product and your content in your video, but using the site to buy your products is like another world, very aggressive and hard to navigate in, I would say very American. I admit to be an old Dane and not much on the internet baying stuff. And perhaps we do things differently in Denmark. Anyway like all the things that I brought from you. Best regards Kurt Dyhr Denmark 😊
Mmmm, I had a very different experience: i just tried it, and didn't see anything much different from 100s of other online stores: menus & shortcuts to find products, good extensive descriptions, click on a button to add to the basket, open the basket, 4 options for payment, enter info, click button, and done... Maybe there's a different site in Scandinavia, but the US one seems very mild and straightforward.
On my comuter bike I have a simple chain for 7 gears only. On mixed roads with dirt roads I ride almost only if its dry. They wear out quick. Even so I clean and relube them about every 100km they are at .75 after only 600km. The chains are quite cheap about 6-8€ (almost the same in $) but I dont like it. It doesnt seem to be very sustainable if other chains last 20000km. But even 2200 isnt bad compared to my chains.
First I was wtf is he talking about, of course chain stretches, explains and oh, indeed they don't stretch, and I was looking for the highest tensile strenght chains in 420 for my surron lmao, I could have choosen 30000lbs chain and would still wonder how the F the chain still "streches" well, it doesn't stretch it wears out, thank you very much. Will hot wax my chains now, what daily maintenance should I do on a waxed chain ? Just wash after every offroad ride with simple water ?
I live in a very hot area where temperature can regularly be 38C+. Should I be worried about the wax melting on the chain and is there anything I can do?
ride in the morning LOL... I live where it's crazy hot 45 to 48C. during the day... The wax will get softer the hotter it gets. I would just avoid the really hot weather anyway and store the bike inside.
@@AceMBP The low here is around 29C. I should say it is tropical here so you have high humidity and direct overhead sunlight. I leave my house when it is dark. By 8am it is already 35C.
think of the wax in your chain in the same way as a glacier on a mountain... we know that ice melts at temperatures above zero celcius but the glacier doesn't instantly liquefy in the hot summer sun, just as wax begins to melt above 40C it doesn't immediately liquefy and leave the chain. I clean the old wax and contaminants from my chains with 100C boiling water in a pot for a few minutes before re-immersing in molten wax, and it still doesn't remove all the old wax.
How often do you wax the ebike's chain? I am using the protocol to top up with Silca chain wax lube after the first ride, but it is unclear how often to dip it in the hot wax.
So if your ebike chain with 2200 miles has almost 0 wear, does that mean that the chainring/cassette should have about the same amount of wear? Meaning you could extend the life of all components to the same extent as the chain. Or do you think chainring/cassette wear differs from the exponential wear of a chain.
Is it possible to see the behaviours of different lubricants as the chain is articulated? What about magnified slo-mo of tyre sealant congealing? What about bearing operation and wear? Can we observe or measure tyre hysteresis losses in a way that hints at the causality? Is it possible to usefully visualise fastener loading with a partially cutaway threaded sleeve? I'd love to see anything related to aerodynamic differences based on surface properties (roughness or type of roughness).
Is it just my Silica melting pot, or does everyone else's take 70 minutes set to 90* to melt the wax fully, in a 70 degree F garage - My amount SSS wax is as specified in the manual for the pot. and I leave the clear plastic cover on.
He actually did a video on this. I can't remember which one but it is basically an effect of the PID controller. The closer you get to the target temperature, the less it will heat. So the solution was to set the temp to the maximum for a bit and then lower it when it gets close to the temperature that you want. Keep in mind that you cannot leave the crockpot alone and need to closely watch the temperature.
Been Using BananaWax Drag & Friction Reduction TdF Racing Chain Wax & Silca Waxes for 10+ Years. There is Nothing Better, Your Chain Lasts Longer, Cassette Lasts Longer, Rear Derailleur Wheels Lasts Longer. It's The Best Bike UpGrade You Can Do, it simply saves you money.
Chain loosening? chainplay? Chainwiggle? Individual parts gain wiggle room so chain losens up. Tho the chain does stretch. The object does elongate/strech, even if the material it is made of does not. So streching is technically correct regarding the item as complete, but not for individual parts.
as the space between the rollers gets longer, the links no longer mesh perfectly in the valleys between the teeth on the sprockets and ring. The start hitting and grinding down one side of the valleys, and wear it down. Pushed to extremes, the teeth start looking like "shark teeths". If you replace your chain before it gets too far out of the original specs, it limits the damage.
@@DominiqueB as the chain wears out, its pitch increases, also, the pitch of the teeth on the new sprocket is not the same in radius, but increases in height of the teeth, so the chain whose pitch increases climbs up the tooth to the pitch that corresponds to the pitch of the teeth. everything would be fine if the teeth do not become thinner in height, so the contact surface of the chain and the teeth decreases and the pressure on the tips of the teeth increases, which begin to deform and look like the teeth of a shark. therefore, the lower part of the tooth is not worn, but the upper part, because when I repair worn teeth, I reshape, grind the lower part that is not worn, because there is excess material there, and not on the top of the tooth, because there is no excess material there
You mentioned polymer based lubes. Is that what pink brand‘s wet lube is? I still have a cassette ruined by it which looks like Loctite was sprinkled over it. What can you use to dissolve it?
My first experience with wax chain lube was a total fail. I used it religiously, but in just year my chain was stretched beyond my measuring tool's range. Thanks to your channel, now I know why. Wax lube is useless on a factory oiled chain. A few days ago I installed your pre-waxed chain. My drivetrain has never been this quiet. I'm a true believer.
Great stuff but I fail to see the problem with saying stretched have been saying stretched my whole life and always knew it had become elongated because of wear! Kids today! 😂
Is there a benefit from letting my wax cool down from 75 degrees before removing the chain? Obviously there is a point in which it gets too cold and starts to harden, but curious if letting it cool to say 60 degrees helps or not.
People sometimes did this in the early years of waxing, with the thought that the wax wouldn't flow out the inner parts of the chain as easily with cooler wax. But I think the current thought is that plenty of wax remains at 75 degrees, so there's no need to cool it first.
Do not let the wax cool. The hot wax will not run out of the links, it stays put due to capillary action. When you remove the chain from the hot wax and hang it up to harden, immediately wipe either side of the chain with absorbent kitchen paper, if you let the wax cool it will quickly stick to the exterior surfaces of the chain where it does no good and you will get a lot more mess from wax flakes on the chain stay and chain ring.
My shimano chain doesn't show any wear being waxed after 5k km but my also waxed YBN one was stretched to 0.5% at exactly the same distance, do YBN chains just wear out much faster?
How could chain wear be decreased with a change of material for chain construction. There is stainless steel of various types, differing alloys of titanium and perhaps other exotic metals.......You probably wouldn't like me. I've been using canning wax. Thanks for the video.
stainless steel is not good for loads, there are quality steels for chains, you just have to pay for them, so it is better to make inferior chains that will be cheaper and will last less, but at least someone will buy them
Since I have started using your Wax appx 1.5 years ago, my chain never reach to 0.5 wear (I use SRAM Force & Parktool CC-4 which supposed to be compatible with flattop chain) However I start noticing some links are getting stiff, but still can move. Is it possible that because of your wax, chains now should be replaced before the "chain wear"? I'm also interested in Abbey's new chain checker that can measure lateral wear.
Oh wait.. I just checked it after today's morning ride. Actually I could push CC-4 into chain so it should be 0.5 wear. (although I needed to give a little push while maintaining tension on the other side) I'm bit relieved finally I could wear a chain. What a...
I guess first thing to make sure is that your bike has good quality stuff. Don't know what was the problem with my new bike but couple of new chains worn out rapidly and even if I have tried to keep up replacing chains in time I could already see some pretty badly shaped teeth in my cassette. Maybe counterfeit KMC chains and/or bike made in China
Waxing is no Option for me on tour. And I do long tourings, the last one was three years. Special oils are no option as well. As you do not get what you want in foreign countries. I have to use what is available. The best solution I found is to change chains often.
how much km you make per day, if around 100km you could use inductive heater and small battery to heat up chain on bike and wax it, all equipment fits in small shoe box
@@makantahi3731 A small shoe box?! On a 3-year tour (or even a 3-week one), space and weight is at a premium. I cannot imagine adding some kind of heater and battery (plus wax, dedicated pot...) to my already overfilled luggage.
Every time I hear a $15k bike ride past me with a squeaky chain I die a little inside. Working a a bike shop and talking to customers, 90% have no idea about maintenance and then question why they needed a $500+ service 3x per year.
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Showing chainring and or cassette wear with the microscope would be another good topic.
The guy from Zero Friction would take 3 hours to explain the same thing and I would have gotten lost in the middle. Thank you Josh, you are a legend!
ha ha, that's what I wrote to Adam that the problem in yt is that it doesn't have 10 times the speed of the video, so he got angry, even though he could summarize the story in half the time and the worst of all is that half of it is wrong
Both options are great.
I’m sure ZF has some good ideas it just takes so long to get to them and they’re muddled in so much nonsense
@@Velodictorian I can understand why some people would think that but I like the detail and I like him as a person, so it's all good to me.
I usually think after the first minute, "I have the gist of this and I can bounce now", but mysteriously my attention is kept. I keep listening and become smarter and fascinated with the minutia of each topic. Good content here with Josh!
1:54 re: plate stretch in the "plastic" region. I'm sure Josh meant to say elastic deformation, because he goes on to say that the plate returns to it's original shape once the load is removed.
This video is really awesome for us nerds.
Chain wear is the best term. Also, chain elongation would be better than chain stretch.
BTW, plastic stretch is permanent deformation; elastic stretch is reversible.
Agree with the comments of many others, let's see a new chain on new and used cassettes as well as worn chain on new and used cassettes and when to replace a cassette relative to replacing the chain.
Great video, been using Super Secret for 2-3 years now, great product!
Chain elongation is a fine description. Chain wear is also a good description.
Are the hot waxed chains being measured after being ridden prior to re-adding wax? Or are they being measured after a reapplication of hot wax? Wouldn't the hot wax be filling in the voids and creating a bad measurement? I'm always curious to this as it's never been stated when measuring is occurring and I think it would be more transparent. I'm also interested in seeing the e-bike chain being measured before it's next treatment.
I suppose it's semantics. I agree with everything you say but effectively if the chain is longer then it has stretched. Wear is the cause of elongation that's all. I've never called it stretch, we always say to check for chain wear. Great video as usual Josh, I like your enthusiasm and of course your engineering expertise
I don’t think it’s crazy to say the chain (as a complete assembly of components) “stretches” because the individual components wear.
Your explanation about why round additive particles don't work, in a span of 30 seconds, does what Adam couldn't explain over the course of 40 minutes...
Because this is a commercial
I think stretch is a good term because it describes a specific type of chain wear. If you have a different term for that, then i would suggest to use that term instead of just wear.
Elongation is ideal. But dorky. Thus I use "stretch." So sue me!
@@dudeonbike800 yeah, stretch works. Wear is just too generic.
A comparison of the worn chain vs a new chain vs a 0.5% chain would’ve been really interesting
This is the absolute best and concise explanation of chain wear I have seen/heard. Great job! I'd like to put a vote in for recommended chain check tools - there seem to be two schools of devices that measure stack up differently. Also any recommendations of lubricants and/or best practices for chain cleaning. I have always liked the lubricants that (claim to) 'flush' the chain and the carrier evaporates - thanks again.
Hey Josh, love, love, love the nerd-outs! I have been a mechanic for 20 plus yrs and i have been using a tape measure to yea/nay chains. When i see 12.000" nominal on the tape I'm happy, when we are at a 1/64 to 1/32 (1/32 roughly .030" or just shy of a mm) i am officially getting concerned. Chain gets replaced as well as pulleys and when this happens again, its cassette and ring time. I'm with you, "stretch" is not accurate and calling it that certainly is triggering, lol.
I just say that it has "worn long and is out of spec".
Ron
Don't be so easily triggered.
@@peterwillson1355 Hey thanks. When I hear it 10 plus times a day and have to explain what the actual issue is 10 plus times a day, gets a little old.
I like the dramatic Chain Death personally :)
The chain is dead, long live the chain!
As always, great information. Thanks, Josh!
Simply excellent video. Thank you. Been waxing my chains for many years and constantly suggesting to folk,that keeping a clean chain will increase its life.
Great info! Thank you for this deep dives, they really help understand the topic of chain wear. Also, always presented in an elegant and simple way 👍🏻
The reason "stretch" works is because it describes the wear and explains why it affects other components on the bike.
Chain wear elongation.
I agree with this terminology. It is more precise because it both describes what is happening (elongation) and the cause (wear).
chains elongate as you said many times in the video!! wear give elongation, so lets say chains elongate wih use
What a great explanation of chain stretch !!!
Really appreciate your mention of the plastic polymer chain lubes (Dumonde Tech). I've never noticed a coating on the Dumonde chains I've been running. And I did prep my chains thoroughly and used it for 20 years. I guess I'll have to take a closer look!
I’m not convinced about chain waxing in general - but I am definitely convinced by Silca Ultimate Sealant.
Absolutely marvelous explanation. The chain have always been a mystery to me. I'll probably take a part the next chain I replace. Please make more of these kind of videos. I'd like Josh to explain every detail of bikes and friction, and bearings and so on.
Thank you!!! I have hated the misleading "stretch" term for decades.
Erosion. Elongation. Wear.
Lighten up, Francis! Stretch is perfectly fine.
Most people say stuff like "I removed my tire to put my bike in the car" all the time. I doubt you jump all over their semantics when they say that. TBH, I oftentimes do. But I'm not so worried about using the misnomer stretch.
Chain "length" is a better way to describe what's happening rather than chain stretch. Overall I prefer to use the term chain "wear".
Very nice video! The microscopic views were sooo helpful, as was the bottle-in-the-ring demo (showing how the pin and roller interact). Suggestion: showing the microscopic view of the bushing really helped make that understandable. Also, I got lost with the term 'journal'. Has to be a workaround for using that term. And finally, calling it 'chain wear' is perfect, because that's exactly what's happening.
All my cycling buddies and myself regardless of discipline say "chain wear". I haven't hear anyone say stretch for a long time. Cables stretch, chains wear. Great film.👍
Right on, Josh! Maybe you roadies took a pebble to the roller blades, but us MTBers experienced that on skateboards. :) Awesome video, as usual.
Great vid, and explanation! Maybe do a TH-cam short (and other platform short videos) where you show the movement at 14:55 along side a new chain, with voiceover. Would be an even better visual.
good informative video, thanks, might have been useful to show a new chain of the same type for comparison. have also been waxing chains for about 3 years plus and love the lack of wear.
Just to reiterate your point on proper lubrication. I wnt from needing a new chain and cassette to be replaced every year (I did wash and lube then) and now with silca wax I'm 18months without any measurable wear
I'm routinely getting 7500+ miles on chains with very minimal stretch(couldn't resist), have 3 different bikes with more than 50k miles each and all original cassettes. Any one thinking the wax and pot is expensive is staring at the tree oblivious to the forest.
Timely comments about the ball bearing idea, given Adam's initial findings on a particular immersive wax he's testing! 😂
In all seriousness though, I freakin love the work both you and Adam are doing to bust myths and try to get everyone educated about how their bikes actually work, and how to best take care of them.
I kind of like "elongation wear", because it's wear ... That causes elongation?🤷🏻 Or how about "journal/bushing interface erosion"? 😂
Hi Josh, may you show us how the lubricant penetrates in all this parts of the chain under the microscope? I would be interesting, even using the quick release links in order to be able to assemble/disassemble the chain during lubing.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
I’ve learned a lot on this channel. Thanks!
Excellent video thank you. So many different lubricants and claims. Finally got to a graphene based hot wax and be very interested in how the chains wear as they are getting be be a pretty expensive component these days. Thanks again for the excellent information
Best explanation I've encountered. Really helps me picture it Thanks!
This was great, Josh. Thank you!
Ha! TOTAL vindication!!!!
Just catching some Olympic track cycling and watching women's team sprint from a day or two ago. At around 21:10, they show a bunch of bike close-ups. Well at 21:20, they zoom in on one of their massive chain rings. Nice (clean) nickel-plated chain that's OBVIOUSLY WAXED!!! You can see the wax bunched on the edges of the outside plates, over the inner link plaes. When your monster Olympian track cyclists are using wax, you KNOW you're onto something!!!!
This was educative.
Please make a video about how chains break.
Under microscope- cassette teeths and front chainrings wear , how much is too much and time to change.
I think I disagree on some parts.
The pin will cause friction on the inner plate, which caused the friction mark on the pin, no rolling here I believe. Pin is static - the inner plate is rotating around the static pin. The roller might be rolling on the cassette and on the flange off the inner plate, that I believe is the engineering marvel in the chain. Or did I not pay enough attention? So we have a combination of static and rolling friction in a chain.
You are right, there is both rolling and sliding, and as it wears, it all becomes sliding.
I agree with you, the bushes of the left hand and right hand inner plates make contact with the pin, this point of contact moves around the pin (in a small arc) as the chain articulates around the chainwheel and sprockets, the inner plates bushes rub or "slide" over the pin going through them, the friction at his point of contact produces the two shiny areas pointed out in the close-up of the worn pin. I don't buy this "rolling friction".
Been waxing for 2 years now. Each time I pull a chain off for another trip through the crockpot I measure it for wear with park's little tool. There is no wear. It's nuts. Months and months of riding and no wear.
I get the same, i track my maintenance on a spreadsheet, and measure wear each time, and i've never had any chain wear. and sometimes i'm tardy and do 500 km on the same waxing!
@@pinkyfull nerd. Just kidding. I don’t track the mileage, but I used an engraver to mark dates on chains so I know age (nerd)
;)
@@h20s8804Dates alone mean zilch.
Not sure if misunderstanding what you wrote, but if you measure the chain AFTER waxing, it won’t show wear because the pin/bushing clearances will be filled with wax. Measure wear after cleaning and BEFORE waxing.
@@GHinWI right. I measure when they come off the bike. I rotate 4 dura ace 11 hollow pin chains on two bikes. It’s been 2 years and only one shows any wear at all. 14k miles.
I love tripping out on these processes with each turn of the peddles. My question concerns the riding conditions of your ride to work and your dip frequency on your commuter EBike for the last 2500 miles?
Thank you! Chain wear.
So helpful, thanks for educating us! Wax on!
the ultrasonic cleaning chain was a shimano one😅
elongation describes it best!
If chain elongation is a product of certain loadbearing surfaces wearing together, can chain lifespan be extended by reversing the direction of the chain when reinstalling after waxing?
hi josh. great video again.. i would like to see a "contaminated" disk brake rotor. i don t believe its not cleanable. but everyone sais its toast.. please show the contaminated vs new vs cleaned ;) thank you :)
Hi Josh - another great video, thanks! Two questions: first, how many chains can be treated with a bag of the Super Secret wax? Second, are there liquids you can use in an ultrasonic cleaner that are better than water for cleaning a chain?
You should get 40-50 waxings per bag of SecretBlend hot wax, it all depends on how much gets dripped or spilled and if you have chains with hollow pins and cuttouts as those tend to hold slightly more wax, but at the low end we say 40+. For cleaning in an ultrasonic you can use SILCA Chain Stripper for anythying with oil and grease, and once you are converted to wax, you can just use boiling, or near boiling water to remove wax and dirt.
Did the 'trichoidal' shape of pin used in the Rohloff S-L-T 99 really do what was claimed for it? The idea was something like "instead of a round pin with a small radius, we have a Wankel rotary-shaped pin with three sections, each having the effect of a much larger radius that wears much slower". I really like the chains in general, but they never made any narrower than 9 speed, and stopped production on even those.
Nice video, and, as others mentioned, a tad more concise than Adam :). What I fail to understand however is the rolling mechanism. Can there be rolling when you have a tight interface, as you have in a new chain? I guess for rolling to occur, you need enough space to lift the posterior part of the rolling item, otherwise it will slide, or am I under a misconception?
If the rollers didn't roll then as each tooth picks up a link in the chain it would grind its way to the bottom of the valley between each tooth... it's like the difference between rolling down a hill and sliding down a hill
On the teeth it makes sense, yes... But while the rollers roll down between the teeth, they slide on the bushing/shoulders of the plates, at least in my imagination.
@@aelaeks Exactly... the wax coating between the rollers and inner plates and between the rollers and pins reduces that sliding friction better than any oil-based chain lube. Think of those shoulders more like spacers that serve to keep the roller located perpendicular to the pin so as the shoulders wear away due to abrasion the distance between each roller increases under load - some call that stretch and others call it elongation.
Chain wear is accurate.
Do have the same editor with Mapdec? The clapping annoys the heck out of me! Cool video tho, I really appreciate sharing the info always.
Great video - would love for you to address how to know when its time to rewax. I just took a chain off that's been quiet and performing great, but its worn a good bit. WIth oil, I used to just listen for it to start squeaking, but my waxed chains haven't squeaked. (or maybe I'm losing my hearing :D )
as wax wears away from the surface between the inner plates and rollers and between the pins and rollers you should notice the chain making more of a rattling sound which indicates that it's time to melt out the old wax and contaminants with boiling water and re-immerse the chain in molten wax for a few minutes
Chain abrasion - would be more precise as the term is limited to 'wearing away ' and addresses the how more directly
Chain wear - is more broad and would include would included material fatigue as well (physically stretching in this case). The lack of precise wording makes it easier to conflat the end result (stretch) with an inaccurate means of wear.
This roller ball explanation makes a lot of sense. That must be the reason the ceramic balls in other guys new immersion wax tested so poorly on ZFC.
ozzy figured out that teflon is the best because it is leafy
I’m on board with Hans - chain elongation.
But really, chain stretch isn’t so bad. It’s not like anyone is saying side plates are stretching. The assembly known as chain is becoming longer.
Would love to see you guys at Silca design a plug in for Strava or an app to help me track when I should be re-waxing my chain.
Depends on the conditions that you are riding in. The sound changing will let you know. Use your brain rather than a useless app lol.
as wax wears away from the surface between the inner plates and rollers and between the pins and rollers you should notice the chain making more of a rattling sound which indicates that it's time to melt out the old wax and contaminants with boiling water and re-immerse the chain in molten wax for a few minutes
As johnlesoudeur3653 says, when your chain starts to sound a bit more noisier than usual then it's time to re-wax. If in doubt, re-wax it. It doesn't take long and there's no harm in "early" re-waxing, you can't damage your chain by over-waxing.
Maybe important for your listeners/viewers, so they do not get totally the wrong idea.
You clarify the difference between elastic and plastic.
Unfortunately at 1:56 you have misquoted plastic, when you should have explained a minimal amount of elastic stretch occurs on chains, when very high power/forces go through the chain, but the chain length returns when the force is removed. ❤
yes
Hi Josh. Great video. I recently purchased a new chain, stripped it with your chain stripper, installed it and then applied your Super Secret chain drip on wax. I did not hot wax it. All is going good regarding chain wear etc. After watching this video, I still am confused how drip on wax penetrates the rollers and pins? Does it have penetrant properties? Thanks!
should be dripping it on to the chain and rotating to each link, the rotation of the chain should shimmy the liquid in. let it cure and youre golden!
You mention your hot waxed chain has 2500 miles with little wear. How often did you wax/clean your chain during that time.
I've been doing some internal thinking about this and it was great to see it in real life! The other thing I would like to see is how the rollers interface with the cassette and the chain rings. My naive understanding is that the sprockets form essentially a plain bearing on the rollers because there is no load on the rollers (the load is on the pins instead, I assume). So, theoretically you don't actually need any lubrication there. I'm wondering if that's correct. The main thing is that I'm actually a bit confused at how the load is transferred to the sprockets in order to drive the wheel. It would be nice to see *how* the wear from an elongated chain happens on the cassette, etc.
It was also nice to hear you speak about additives in the lubricants and how they are used to essentially harden the bushings/pins in the rollers. One thing I'd like to know specifically about hot wax application is how the wax lubricates. I'm actually very uneducated about how lubrication works at all! I *guess* that you want a lubricant that is relatively uncompressible to isolate the pin from the bushing, but I've got no idea whether or not that is correct. In the best case scenario (your lubricant is present) will you get significant contact? Are the additives essentially a fallback mechanism, or does it actually help reduce friction in that best case scenario as well? It's interesting to me that wax essentially fills the gaps between the pin an the bushing and it is solid at room temperature/pressures, so it's very hard for it to leak out. Does the wax typically melt under pressure inside the bushing? If so, is there any understanding about where that melting may stop? I'm interested mainly because someone else rightly pointed out that solid wax tends to shear easily and I'm wondering where that transition happens (if there is one).
Sorry, for the truck load of questions (that may be unhelpful due to my ignorance on the subject). But it would be nice if you could present a bit more of an overview of how it works. I'm really being greedy here because you've already done a lot with just this video!
I see that you are honest and that you have the right way of thinking, and that you are on the right path, so I will help you create a picture of what is happening there: the answer to the first question is: the chain that rotates when the pedals are turned comes from the bottom side of the sprocket-on 6 hours, and until now the chain is unburdened by pedaling force, as the chain comes out of the gearbox it bends on the sprocket, but without any load. as the sprocket is turned upwards from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, the force in the chain begins to increase and reaches its maximum between 10 and 12 o'clock. while the sprocket is turned, as the force increases, the chain moves slightly along the sprocket from the neutral position towards the top of the teeth, how high will climb depends on the step of the chain, i.e. its wear, the more worn the chain is, the higher it climbs on the tooth because the teeth are radially positioned, at a larger radius there is a greater circumference. while the chain moves along the chainring, the ring rolls along the tooth and along the inner link and that are the only ones that roll. when the chain leaves the chainring, it straightens, and at the same time, under load, the pin slides inside the inner link and this is where the main wear of the chain occurs, also when it comes to the chain ring at 12 o'clock. on a bicycle, you do not need to lubricate the surface of the teeth on which the ring rolls because the loads are small, unlike the car differential, which would wear out immediately, because at high loads metal welding happens, as if you have two chewing gum that you touch and they stick to each other and tear the material from each other. that's all for now, as the chain climbs the tooth, the tooth becomes narrower and thus its contact surface decreases, and since the force in the chain is the same, the contact pressure increases. since the chainrings are made of different qualities of steel, some will begin to plastically deform sooner, some later, mostly to crushing and plastic deformation of the contact surface of the tooth, not the entire tooth. as the chain wears, his pitch increases, so the chain climbs higher on the tooth, which further wears the teeth go to my channel and you'll see interesting things
in relation to lubrication: when sliding, a big role is played by the viscosity, which is determined by the long polymer chains that prevent direct contact with the metal and circulates, i.e. it returns to the surface, but the wax is rigid and does not return to the surface, so in fact it should be as soft as possible, i.e. the melting temperature is as close as possible to the ambient temperature but so that it does not become sticky, which would catch impurities on the chain that would directly affect the wear of the chain.the wax becomes semi-liquid under load, but it also depends on the melting temperature, if the benefit is the pure wax without paraffin or any other oil, in the winter it will be too hard and it will crumble and it will come out of the chain very quickly, that's why you need to add oil so that the wax became softer if the outside temperature is lower. this all applies to pure wax without additives and it is necessary to re-wax the chain every 100km or sooner. if additives are added to the wax: teflon, mos, wos, then the waxing should be repeated between 200 and 300 km depending on the additives that work by sticking onto the contact surfaces and thus preventing direct metal contact, especially Teflon, which ozzy cycle claims is the best additive and guarantees the longest waxing interval.
Hey Josh, love the videos and Marginal Gains podcast. I'm hot waxing my Dura-Ace chain with Secret blend, is there a wax treatment I can do my to stock Dura-Ace rear derailleur pulleys? I was thinking of hot waxing the bushings and the plates that go between the pulleys and the housing. Thoughts?
Chain wear is a good term. Always cried at the stretch moniker. (Cuz it misleads the children).🧑🔬
What is a reasonable life expectancy for a Gravel Bike Chain 50% road 50% gravel (cleaned and lubed regularly)?
I say 'so-called chain stretch'. Then the other person either needs the explanation that it's actually the cumulative effect of minute increases in play at the multiple points of contact, or the other person doesn't and we can proceed.
I'd love to hear Josh's thoughts on SRAM's flattop chain. When it was introduced, I didn't get the point as I already knew wear primarily happens at the pins and bushings. SRAM claims the "added material on the flat side of the chain plates strengthens every link," but it seems like this design is just playing into the chain "stretch" myth. Thoughts?
Full quote from SRAM's website:
"What if you could add range to your drivetrain while also smoothing the gear progression with smaller differences in tooth count between neighboring gears? And what if you could gain that without losing drivetrain efficiency or having to replace your chain more frequently? Our unique Flattop chain link design is a key element that makes all of these improvements possible.
To gain a wider gear range with smaller gearing steps, the chain has to get narrower. With Flattop, we’ve added material on the flat side of the chain plates to strengthen every link. The Hard Chrome surface treatment on the pins, inner plates, and rollers also extends the life of the chain and keeps it shifting precisely over the long haul. Additionally, Flattop chains feature longer wearing large diameter rollers that help deliver the same drivetrain efficiency as our 11-speed drivetrains. All of these technologies together have enabled us to engineer a narrower 12-speed chain that lasts 36% longer than our 11-speed chains.
With the Flattop chain design it’s like having your cake and eating it too… except this cake actually helps you to be faster on the bike… and you don’t have to buy cake as often… There might be a better metaphor to explain it, but we like cake, so we’re sticking with it."
Using larger diameter rollers means that more surface area of the roller is contacting each tooth on the cassette sprocket and chain ring gear so there will be more side load on the chain when shifting to a larger gear/sprocket/cog which is where the added material on the flat side of the chain plates helps to reinforce each link to accept a higher side load...
Seems like they created a problem with larger diameter rollers then resolved it with beefier side plates and served that to their marketing department.
Question: I saw a channel claiming that wear indicator is inferior to chain elongation measurement. Is this true? If so, at what elongation % should you replace the chain?
Hi SILCA. Very informative video. Thanks for sharing.
Shot question, have you tried to buy something from your website?
I like your product and your content in your video, but using the site to buy your products is like another world, very aggressive and hard to navigate in, I would say very American. I admit to be an old Dane and not much on the internet baying stuff. And perhaps we do things differently in Denmark.
Anyway like all the things that I brought from you.
Best regards
Kurt Dyhr
Denmark 😊
Mmmm, I had a very different experience: i just tried it, and didn't see anything much different from 100s of other online stores: menus & shortcuts to find products, good extensive descriptions, click on a button to add to the basket, open the basket, 4 options for payment, enter info, click button, and done... Maybe there's a different site in Scandinavia, but the US one seems very mild and straightforward.
On my comuter bike I have a simple chain for 7 gears only. On mixed roads with dirt roads I ride almost only if its dry. They wear out quick. Even so I clean and relube them about every 100km they are at .75 after only 600km. The chains are quite cheap about 6-8€ (almost the same in $) but I dont like it. It doesnt seem to be very sustainable if other chains last 20000km. But even 2200 isnt bad compared to my chains.
Brilliant
First I was wtf is he talking about, of course chain stretches, explains and oh, indeed they don't stretch, and I was looking for the highest tensile strenght chains in 420 for my surron lmao, I could have choosen 30000lbs chain and would still wonder how the F the chain still "streches" well, it doesn't stretch it wears out, thank you very much. Will hot wax my chains now, what daily maintenance should I do on a waxed chain ? Just wash after every offroad ride with simple water ?
I live in a very hot area where temperature can regularly be 38C+. Should I be worried about the wax melting on the chain and is there anything I can do?
ride in the morning LOL... I live where it's crazy hot 45 to 48C. during the day... The wax will get softer the hotter it gets. I would just avoid the really hot weather anyway and store the bike inside.
@@AceMBP The low here is around 29C. I should say it is tropical here so you have high humidity and direct overhead sunlight. I leave my house when it is dark. By 8am it is already 35C.
think of the wax in your chain in the same way as a glacier on a mountain... we know that ice melts at temperatures above zero celcius but the glacier doesn't instantly liquefy in the hot summer sun, just as wax begins to melt above 40C it doesn't immediately liquefy and leave the chain.
I clean the old wax and contaminants from my chains with 100C boiling water in a pot for a few minutes before re-immersing in molten wax, and it still doesn't remove all the old wax.
How often do you wax the ebike's chain? I am using the protocol to top up with Silca chain wax lube after the first ride, but it is unclear how often to dip it in the hot wax.
So whats the best chain wear gauge out there. I have most of Parks but wanna make sure I get it right
Shimano TL-CN42 or Park Tool CC-4 or Pedros Chain Checker Plus II.
So if your ebike chain with 2200 miles has almost 0 wear, does that mean that the chainring/cassette should have about the same amount of wear? Meaning you could extend the life of all components to the same extent as the chain. Or do you think chainring/cassette wear differs from the exponential wear of a chain.
i'll keep using the term "stretch" as long as people keep referring to SPROCKETS as "cogs".
Is it possible to see the behaviours of different lubricants as the chain is articulated?
What about magnified slo-mo of tyre sealant congealing?
What about bearing operation and wear?
Can we observe or measure tyre hysteresis losses in a way that hints at the causality?
Is it possible to usefully visualise fastener loading with a partially cutaway threaded sleeve?
I'd love to see anything related to aerodynamic differences based on surface properties (roughness or type of roughness).
Is it just my Silica melting pot, or does everyone else's take 70 minutes set to 90* to melt the wax fully, in a 70 degree F garage - My amount SSS wax is as specified in the manual for the pot. and I leave the clear plastic cover on.
He actually did a video on this. I can't remember which one but it is basically an effect of the PID controller. The closer you get to the target temperature, the less it will heat. So the solution was to set the temp to the maximum for a bit and then lower it when it gets close to the temperature that you want. Keep in mind that you cannot leave the crockpot alone and need to closely watch the temperature.
@@Mipirakas nailed it. It's set to use specific power to get the EXACT temps. set it to the higher temp to get it heating up faster.
Been Using BananaWax Drag & Friction Reduction TdF Racing Chain Wax & Silca Waxes for 10+ Years.
There is Nothing Better, Your Chain Lasts Longer, Cassette Lasts Longer, Rear Derailleur Wheels Lasts Longer.
It's The Best Bike UpGrade You Can Do, it simply saves you money.
i worked with a guy who called it "chain rot"
Chain loosening? chainplay? Chainwiggle? Individual parts gain wiggle room so chain losens up. Tho the chain does stretch. The object does elongate/strech, even if the material it is made of does not. So streching is technically correct regarding the item as complete, but not for individual parts.
great video. how does a worn chain eats away the life of cassette and chainring?
yes
as the space between the rollers gets longer, the links no longer mesh perfectly in the valleys between the teeth on the sprockets and ring.
The start hitting and grinding down one side of the valleys, and wear it down. Pushed to extremes, the teeth start looking like "shark teeths". If you replace your chain before it gets too far out of the original specs, it limits the damage.
@@DominiqueB as the chain wears out, its pitch increases, also, the pitch of the teeth on the new sprocket is not the same in radius, but increases in height of the teeth, so the chain whose pitch increases climbs up the tooth to the pitch that corresponds to the pitch of the teeth. everything would be fine if the teeth do not become thinner in height, so the contact surface of the chain and the teeth decreases and the pressure on the tips of the teeth increases, which begin to deform and look like the teeth of a shark. therefore, the lower part of the tooth is not worn, but the upper part, because when I repair worn teeth, I reshape, grind the lower part that is not worn, because there is excess material there, and not on the top of the tooth, because there is no excess material there
@@DominiqueB thx mate
You mentioned polymer based lubes. Is that what pink brand‘s wet lube is? I still have a cassette ruined by it which looks like Loctite was sprinkled over it. What can you use to dissolve it?
My first experience with wax chain lube was a total fail. I used it religiously, but in just year my chain was stretched beyond my measuring tool's range. Thanks to your channel, now I know why. Wax lube is useless on a factory oiled chain. A few days ago I installed your pre-waxed chain. My drivetrain has never been this quiet. I'm a true believer.
1:50 not plastic but elastic (if it returns to its original length)
Ok. No more stretch, now people please stop saying things like “fits a 42c tire” It’s 42 millimeters! “C” is not a unit of measurement!
Great stuff but I fail to see the problem with saying stretched have been saying stretched my whole life and always knew it had become elongated because of wear! Kids today! 😂
Is there a benefit from letting my wax cool down from 75 degrees before removing the chain? Obviously there is a point in which it gets too cold and starts to harden, but curious if letting it cool to say 60 degrees helps or not.
People sometimes did this in the early years of waxing, with the thought that the wax wouldn't flow out the inner parts of the chain as easily with cooler wax. But I think the current thought is that plenty of wax remains at 75 degrees, so there's no need to cool it first.
Do not let the wax cool. The hot wax will not run out of the links, it stays put due to capillary action. When you remove the chain from the hot wax and hang it up to harden, immediately wipe either side of the chain with absorbent kitchen paper, if you let the wax cool it will quickly stick to the exterior surfaces of the chain where it does no good and you will get a lot more mess from wax flakes on the chain stay and chain ring.
I have to admit, I was hovering over the screen to swipe away, until I saw the inner workings of the chain explanation.
My shimano chain doesn't show any wear being waxed after 5k km but my also waxed YBN one was stretched to 0.5% at exactly the same distance, do YBN chains just wear out much faster?
You could only make a fair comparison if both chains were cleaned and re-waxed at the same intervals between 0 km to 5000 km
Agree with changing the terminology. I feel chain pin loosening is an accurate description, or just loosening instead of stretching.
How could chain wear be decreased with a change of material for chain construction. There is stainless steel of various types, differing alloys of titanium and perhaps other exotic metals.......You probably wouldn't like me. I've been using canning wax. Thanks for the video.
stainless steel is not good for loads, there are quality steels for chains, you just have to pay for them, so it is better to make inferior chains that will be cheaper and will last less, but at least someone will buy them
Since I have started using your Wax appx 1.5 years ago, my chain never reach to 0.5 wear (I use SRAM Force & Parktool CC-4 which supposed to be compatible with flattop chain)
However I start noticing some links are getting stiff, but still can move.
Is it possible that because of your wax, chains now should be replaced before the "chain wear"?
I'm also interested in Abbey's new chain checker that can measure lateral wear.
Oh wait.. I just checked it after today's morning ride. Actually I could push CC-4 into chain so it should be 0.5 wear. (although I needed to give a little push while maintaining tension on the other side)
I'm bit relieved finally I could wear a chain. What a...
I guess first thing to make sure is that your bike has good quality stuff. Don't know what was the problem with my new bike but couple of new chains worn out rapidly and even if I have tried to keep up replacing chains in time I could already see some pretty badly shaped teeth in my cassette. Maybe counterfeit KMC chains and/or bike made in China
I think chain stretch is a good term
Waxing is no Option for me on tour. And I do long tourings, the last one was three years. Special oils are no option as well. As you do not get what you want in foreign countries. I have to use what is available. The best solution I found is to change chains often.
how much km you make per day, if around 100km you could use inductive heater and small battery to heat up chain on bike and wax it, all equipment fits in small shoe box
@@makantahi3731 can you name such a heater?
@@makantahi3731 A small shoe box?! On a 3-year tour (or even a 3-week one), space and weight is at a premium. I cannot imagine adding some kind of heater and battery (plus wax, dedicated pot...) to my already overfilled luggage.
Every time I hear a $15k bike ride past me with a squeaky chain I die a little inside. Working a a bike shop and talking to customers, 90% have no idea about maintenance and then question why they needed a $500+ service 3x per year.